Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Crying on Planes with Jodi Picoult

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

Author Jodi Picoult joins Chelsea this week to talk about being relegated to ‘women’s fiction’, why she thinks the person who wrote Shakespeare’s plays was actually a woman, what’s changed and what’s stayed the same for women over the last 400 years.  Then: A twenty-something wonders how to tell her new beau about her chaotic family life.  A soon-to-be empty-nester dreams of the seaside.  And a flight attendant has had it with being poked and prodded. * Buy Jodi’s new book, By Any Other Name *  Click here to help with Lynette’s car repairs * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle.

I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Hi, Chelsea. You're in New York. I am. I'm in New York City. I got here. I flew from San Francisco this morning. I had a great dinner last night. What's that restaurant called in San Francisco? Nopa. It was so good. If you're in San

Francisco, you got to go there. Anyway, I had dinner with my nephew. Oh, he's not my nephew. He's my cousin. I don't know what anyone's relation to me is. My doctor cousin, Ted, who I tried to get a prescription from, and then his partner, and then my niece, she's leaving for a semester abroad, and my sister, and Doug, I had on the road. Doug and I went wine tasting. We went to Napa. I had a show in Saratoga. Then he and I went to San Francisco. We went to Point Reyes. Oh, how lovely. We went to the beach in San Francisco. There's a huge doggy beach, and we went there on Saturday. Saturday, and Doug humiliated me. No. Yeah, yeah. I couldn't even pretend I knew him. It was so

humiliating. He had the zoomies for close to like 45 minutes. I thought he was going to have a heart attack. And me trying to call my dog when he doesn't come is so embarrassing and humiliating at a dog park, especially when everyone's off leash, because everyone's like, well, then you shouldn't be here. And it's like, well, then fine. That's not my dog. So I just walked in a different direction hoping he'd follow yeah I mean he's screaming Doug come Doug come in front of all these other beachgoers it's just humiliating it's like especially with no response and I have like treats I'm trying to bribe him with treats but other than that I have to say he he was fucking awesome because he has like he's a little bipolar he goes into a restaurant immediately and lies

down and goes to sleep as soon as we're sitting at a restaurant I was like that's so awesome he doesn't beg for food it's perfect yeah and then when you get him on the beach and he's got this big personality there so I mean I was pretty pleased with him I brought him on stage at one of my shows at the Saratoga Mountain Winery oh which reminds me my Vegas residency starts this Saturday coming to Vegas 9 September 1st is my very first Vegas residency date so I will be there with bells on everybody I hope I see you there excellent our guest today is the number one New York Times bestselling author of 29 novels, including Mad Honey, My Sister's Keeper, and her newest book, which you guys are going to love, By Any Other Name. Please welcome Jodi Pico.

Hi, Jodi. Hello. How are you? I'm great. Congratulations on your latest book, which is called By Any Other Name. So let's talk about the subject matter in this book, because it's fascinating. And a lot of, what are they called? Bardologists? Is that what I think I saw a word of that once, right? Shakespeare lovers. This has been a very heavy debate that's been going on for a very long time. And I fucking love it. I love it that Shakespeare wasn't necessarily we don't have enough proof to know that Shakespeare was responsible for writing all of what Shakespeare wrote. And I'm using quotation marks because a lot of the experiences which you cover in this book, this is like, how would you describe it? It's I mean, it's a novel.

It's definitely a novel. Yeah. To me, it's a book about how women have been written out of history by the men who were writing history, about how women's voices have been silenced and are still being silenced today. Takes place half in Elizabethan England and half in the modern world. And it's the story of two women. One is in 1581. It's Amelia Bassano, who's a real life historical figure. And she is a female playwright who can't get her stuff in front of the public because she's a female playwright. And she winds up paying a man for the use of his name. And that man is William Shakespeare. And then in 2024, it's the story of her descendant, a woman named Melina Green, who's written a play about her ancestor, Amelia, and is trying to get it to Broadway. But in a very male-dominated theater world, that is not happening. And she, too, has to decide whether she'll write herself out of history in order to see her work up on the stage. And to me, it's a little bit of everything. It is a page-turner. It is a historical novel.

It's the spiciest thing I've ever written. It is also the timeliest thing I've ever written because, you know, women are still fighting to be heard today. And we're living in a time when there's a small group of people who are making decisions about what the rest of us should be reading and who gets to write those stories. Yes. I mean, it's not only timely. This would be timely at any point during history because we're talking about a five century span of time where we're still up against the same barriers of entry as women. so I heard this quote yesterday it was interesting what was it I was listening to a podcast and it says you can go decades without anything changing and then in a week it can feel like decades have changed like when Kamala gets elected in November that will be that kind of feeling like we've been

trying so hard so hard so hard and then it happens like this but in the book so Amelia Bassano is a real life person she is so how does that work when you're writing that because how can you write about some characters that are real and some that are fictionalized. So we know certain things about the real Amelia Bassano's life. Most of them come from this diary of this hack doctor slash astrologer

that she went to when she had all these miscarriages and she wanted to get rid of them. And so this guy, his name was Simon Foreman, he basically spent all his time trying to sleep with her, which he also documented, by the way,

and she rejected him. But it tells us that she was Italian, that her family came over from Italy because they were super talented musicians, and Henry VIII brought them over to be the recorder consort to the king, and then they began working for Queen Elizabeth I. We know that she was Jewish, and like the rest of her family, she had to hide her religion. We know that when she was seven and her dad died, she was given as a ward to a countess who was really, really atypical and gave her this incredible classical education and a legal education, which girls, especially not noble girls, were never given. And then when Amelia

was 12, this woman got remarried. And so Amelia was kind of like lost for a little bit. And for a summer, she lived with the woman's brother, who was a baron who happened to be the ambassador to Denmark when he did a diplomatic visit to the king and queen. The next year, she was given as a courtesan to the Lord Chamberlain of England. And he was in charge of all theater. He was 56. she was 13. What a beautiful coupling. It's lovely, isn't it? She would have met all the players in the theater industry because every play crossed his desk for censorship. So she would have met the playwright, she would have met the actors, she would have met the producers, the theater owners, all those people for the 10 years she was with him. Then she gets pregnant.

So she's 23 years old. She cannot be a pregnant mistress when he's already married. So he marries her off to her wastrel of a cousin who winds up blowing through all the money that he gives her her be comfortable. And she's now 23 years old. She's got a husband she hates. She has a kid she has to support. And she has no idea how to do that. And then we don't know anything about Amelia for years, for decades, until 1611, when she's in her late 40s. And suddenly, she is the first woman to publish a book of poetry in England, which in and of itself is a reason you should know her name, right? But there's this time period between the two, like decades. People don't show up in their mid-40s and publish a book of poetry, like, you know, especially when women

weren't doing that, which tells me she was writing before that. She just may not have been using her name. And in terms of Shakespeare, you know, same thing. We know a lot of facts about Shakespeare. We know that he was a businessman, a producer. We know he was an actor. We know that he evaded taxes twice. We know that he had multiple restraining orders from his colleagues that he worked with. We know that when there was a famine, he hoarded grain and he jacked up the price for all his neighbors. He was a lovely individual. He also never left the country. He was not educated at a university. He was self-educated. But when he died, he didn't own a single book. He didn't bequeath a book to anybody. When he died, he was not buried

in Poets' Corner at Westminster like all the other writers, even many you've never heard of, who weren't as famous. When he died, not a single other playwright said anything about the loss of such a great talent, although by far he was the best known, quote, playwright of the time. You know, so what we know about him legally and historically is that he was a businessman, not that he was a writer. There is no proof that he wrote anything with his name attached to it. And it's my belief that people used his name and paid him for the use of it so he could make a quick buck. And they were the ones writing under his name. And I think Emilio is one of several people who was doing that. Oh, interesting. Okay. But here's my question. If that's all true,

right, and he wasn't credited as being a writer, even if other people were using his name, he would still have been recognized when he died as a writer because those plays were all produced under his name as written by Shakespeare in real time. Unless it was kind of like an inside joke in the theater world. Like an open secret. Which I actually think it was. And there's actually a scene in the book where I write about the first folio, which everyone knows Shakespeare's first folio, right? It's a collection of like 30 odd plays that he allegedly wrote by himself while he had two full-time jobs. And he was also allegedly the only playwright at the time who didn't collaborate, but okay, whatever. So he has this folio after he's dead, all these plays are

brought together and they're brought together by his nemesis, Ben Johnson. Okay. Ben Johnson and Shakespeare hated each other. And Ben Johnson was the first guy to take all of his plays and instead of looking at them as kind of pulp fiction saying, oh no, this is the oeuvre of my work. So all of a sudden Shakespeare's dead and someone's collecting his plays. And his nemesis, Ben Johnson, is the one who writes all of the prefatory material saying, you know, all these lovely things about Shakespeare as a playwright. But if you read between the lines of what Ben Johnson actually wrote he says things like don't look on the face of this playwright look at his words and there's this whole conspiracy theory about the actual etching of Shakespeare that everybody knows it's

the picture you're thinking of when you think of Shakespeare that was on the first folio and how in it it looks like he has two left arms in other words no quote right arm right and there's a line around his face that looks like he's wearing a mask and there are all these people who've used that to say, oh, see, that's proof that that everyone was kind of in on this joke. And Ben Johnson was leaving us a bunch of puzzles and clues, thinking everyone in the future is going to figure this out. But apparently we we missed the punchline. Well, and I can't remember if this was in the book or in some an interview that I read with you. But you had mentioned at some point that Shakespeare, as we know it traditionally, a lot of times it was hyphenated. And that back

then was known to be like, this is an imaginary character or this is sort of a pseudonym. Yeah, that's also something that people bring up. That's to me more hypothetical, like, oh, it's not a real name. I think what's more interesting is to look at the fact that like Shakespeare didn't speak all these other languages, right? Because he wasn't educated at university. He didn't go to Cambridge or Oxford or whatever. But some of the source material for the stories that he used for the plays was only available in ancient Latin, ancient Greek, Italian, French. he didn't speak those languages. And it wasn't like people were going around telling all these stories all the time, and they weren't translated yet. So how does he know this stuff? How does he know about where the queen of Denmark's closets are in her bedchamber when he's never been to Denmark? How does he know that a certain type of tree grows on the north bank of a river in Italy? To me, this is all really interesting. And why, especially, this is a good one. Why does Shakespeare all of a sudden stop writing historical plays about kings and start writing

Italian wedding comedies. That feels like an odd choice. Well, I mean, it's all very valid. It's also fascinating, you know, because I've only really heard about all of that kind of conjecture about Shakespeare, but I've never I mean, I would say your book is the biggest dive I've taken into it because I'm not a bardologist, someone who is obsessed with Shakespeare and all of that. And I don't even know the reference of the first folio that you're making. That's how uneducated I am on this topic. First, I need you to answer the editorial question. How does one, from an editorial standpoint, combine historical real figures with fictional characters? What are the rules around that as a writer? Well, I mean, I write fiction, so there are no rules, which is

lovely. You have it much harder because you're writing nonfiction. But for me, I can do anything that I want. And so even when you're using a real life person, you can say that. Absolutely. Oh, she's been dead a while. Amelia was on. Yeah, I've done it before. There's a statute of limitations. You should also know, Chelsea, I've never written about you, so you can sleep tonight. Don't worry, I've done enough of that. I made sure that when I finished the book, I gave you the actual references, the actual truth, and the places that I departed from the truth, because I did want people to know what was real and what was not real. I think it's really important, too, to say that even if you haven't been a Shakespeare scholar, I'm going to

give you enough knowledge to get through this book and know what you need to know. You don't need to come into this having read any of Shakespeare's plays, really. No, you don't. You don't. I speak from experience. This is a very juicy book. I love it. And I love the toggling back and forth from the present day to a different time. I love having a period piece setting and then these two characters, these two main protagonists that are mimicking each other in their lives in a way. And I do want to talk about this theme of the book because this really hit me hard, probably because I'm always paranoid at just about ending up like, you know, on the street or something. I mean, the contrast from her life of getting being this guy's mistress and

treating her with respect and adoration, this man truly adored her and the way that this is written and she, you know, she gets carted off and she's sold to some guy, she doesn't know where she's going. And she ends up in one of probably the best circumstances short of actually falling in love with your captor you know this guy allowed her to read his plays this guy who ran all the theaters in London he allowed her to read her plays he loved hearing her poetry he wanted her to flourish and he admired her and she had a beautiful life with him until the I don't want to give anything away in this book but until her circumstances change and then there's a shift that is a really fucking hard pill to swallow yeah as a reader it was so painful to even read

what her next situation entailed and where she went and then that dynamic. And it made me think about as a writer, when you're writing, especially as someone who's written as many books as you have, what is the methodology there? How do you think about those turns of events? Do you want to make them as drastically different, like the contrast so stark? Is that your intention? I think that the pitfall I didn't want to hit in this book, because Amelia does suffer so many tragic moments in her life. I didn't want you to be like, oh my God, not again. I didn't want it to feel overwhelming. And part of being able to combat that comes again from that diary from that astrologer doctor. When she talked about her life with the Lord Chamberlain, with this guy who was

so wealthy and who was the theater head of all of England, basically, she was so proud of what she achieved then. She talks about how all kinds of men would give her jewels and would look at her and noticed what she looked like. And you could tell that even though she wound up in a very poor, different circumstance than she was for those 10 years, she was like, hey, I was someone. Don't forget I was someone.

And it was hearing that fire in her that made me want to create her as really a spitfire, someone who keeps on getting up every time she's knocked down. Interestingly, you talk about how kind the Lord Chamberlain was to her. We don't know anything about that relationship. We know that she, from what she says in these diaries that are written down, that he kept her well and that she seemed to be comfortable with him. But we don't know anything else about it.

And in my opinion, you know, I was thinking, okay, here's someone who is 13 years old, winds up in this, you know, artificial relationship with a 56-year-old man where she's literally being groomed to be his courtesan. And I didn't want, again, there to be a terrible time for Amelia during those 10 years because it seemed like she enjoyed it. And I thought, I don't really see her falling head over heels with this guy, but I do see her finding a friendship there. And, you know, that was why I chose to characterize and write Lord Hunston, the Lord Chamberlain, the way that I did. So sometimes it means taking a clue out of history and just sort of spinning it and extrapolating it to create the character around it.

I mean, what a luxury. You just like take what you like and discard what you don't, you know? That is, I mean, that is the definition and essence of being a writer. Okay, but wait. Can I tell you the freakiest thing that happened to me when I was writing this book? One of the ways that I wanted to combat, again, all the tragedy in Amelia's life was I thought this woman deserved a little happiness. And so I wanted to give her a love affair with a man she truly loved.

And there's this historical fact when Amelia's in her 60s, she goes to court. She represents herself in court, which is crazy. And she's fighting her brother-in-law. After her husband's death, she was basically supposed to get money from a patent that he owned and her brother-in-law stole it all. at the end of this trial, out of nowhere, the Earl of Southampton comes swanning into the courtroom and he goes, hey, this isn't my court, but if it was, I'd find in favor of her. Now, this would never happen. You would just not see a noble intervene in some commoner's life, right? And

I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, why did this guy come out of nowhere to talk to Amelia? And then I realized, you know, during those 10 years that she was living with the Lord Chamberlain, court was a pretty small group of courtiers and ladies, nobles. She would have known Southampton. He was about three and a half years younger than she was. He was considered to be quite a hottie of the time. So I'm like, great, I'm going to have them get it on. So I'm writing all this great Elizabethan sex. And, you know, and I was really enjoying the relationship I created for them, which was like this absolute doomed love affair, because there was no world in which the Earl of Southampton was ever going to wind up completely married to some commoner like Amelia. Anyway, I write the whole

thing. I finish the book and I go to the Victoria and Albert Museum in England because I've been invited to hold and see the miniature of Amelia that exists. So I go to the archives. The archive is taken out. I'm holding her in my hands, which was just amazing. But my eye keeps getting drawn to the box that had all these miniatures in it and the one that was right next to her. And it's a man with long, curly red hair. It looked a lot like mine. And I just kept staring at it. And I said to the archivist, who is that? And they said, oh, well, we don't know. That's an unknown man. And I said, can you tell me when it was painted? So they look it up and it's about the exact same time as the Amelia miniature. And I pull up on my phone an accredited painting of the Earl of

Southampton, which looks exactly like that. And I said, I think maybe it's him. And they start looking at it and they realize, we do a deep dive, the miniature that I've pulled up was painted four years later by the same artist. Even more interestingly, in that unknown man miniature, the man is on a black background instead of a traditional blue. His hand is covering his heart and it's painted on the three of hearts, a playing card, which in early, you know, Elizabethan tarot called cartomancy kind of signified a soulmate, someone you love desperately but would never wind up with. All of those things would have been the decision

of the person sitting for the portrait. And after doing deep research, the archivists have written me back and they're like, yeah, we think this actually could be Southampton. So for the past couple hundred years, the two of them have been nestled next to each other in a box at the Victoria and Albert Museum.

So maybe sometimes you write stuff and it becomes history. I don't know. This is turning into an episode of Murder, She Wrote. What about her marrying her cousin? Is that true too? Did that happen historically? Yeah. That is historically true. His name was Alfonso Lanier. He was a jerk. He did go through all of her money. He wanted to be a knight. So he kept

on. He kept trying multiple things, but he basically just blew through her cash. And he did go off to try to be a knight. He did wind up, ironically, on a mission that Southampton was leading, a naval mission on behalf of the queen. He never became a knight and she could not stand him. I mean, that's all we know is that he did not treat her well and she was not happy with him and she did not want the marriage. It's also fascinating. And you know what? It's so nice to put it in modern terms in the way that you write and the way that this book is like our listeners are. They love books and they love reading and they're going to love this book because it's I love that you are learning through fiction. You know, there is history involved here

and that you're learning a lot about Shakespeare that is for someone I don't know a lot about Shakespeare, but I would like to know more. And this is just fascinating. It's just so well done. Oh, thank you. I think it's also, for me, it was really important to have the modern element in the book as well, to have the story of her descendant trying to get this play mounted, you know, about her ancestor. Because as someone who for the past 10 years has been fortunate enough to work in the world of theater, it's a very male-dominated profession. And the gatekeepers are a bunch of old white men who like to see stories that reflect their own experience on a stage. And that's cyclical. You know, if you only see a certain kind of story

on a stage, you start to think maybe that's the only one that should be worth telling. Everything that Melina is told about her fictional play, by any other name, that it's too emotional, that it's too small, that nobody would want to see the story of a woman or of a young girl coming of age. Those are all verbatim things that I was told when I was working on my first show. Geez. And now you're adapting The Book Thief, right? Yeah, I am. So exciting. Yeah. The same team that was working with me on that show, that original show, Between the Lines,

we've adapted The Book Thief and it's going to the West End in the fall of 2025. Oh, how cool is that? That's so awesome. What's your experience been like as a female author? How has that been? So it's really interesting because I think the reason that By Any Other Name is so personal to me and really is the book of my heart is that I have written so many controversial things, but I am rarely like the characters that I write. However, this is a book about what it means to be a female storyteller. And that is exactly who I am. And let me tell you what it is to be a female storyteller. You sit down on a plane and someone says, what do you do? And you say, I'm a writer.

They look at you, see you're a woman. And they say, oh, do you write romance? And I say, no. Do you write children's books? No. Oh, you must write women's fiction. Those are only the three categories that women ever write, apparently. What is even women's fiction? Why is there no men's fiction? Why do they just get to be fiction? You know, so there's still this sense that female writers are pigeonholed in a way that men never are. If you get a man who writes a really great book about family and relationships, they are hailed as the great American author, as if it is incongruous to have both a heart and a penis, right? And I don't, I don't think that's mutually exclusive. And I think that because of that, women still feel pigeonholed as writers, even though

there are plenty of women on the bestseller list. The place where we start to see gender discrimination in publishing is in reviews. Fewer women are reviewed and there are fewer female reviewers. And at the very, very top echelons of publishing, although we see a lot of female editors, who runs these publishing companies? It's usually a man. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. On that note, We're going to take a break, and we will be right back with Jodi Pico. This week, write in if you have questions about fitness. It could be something specific you're dealing with in your fitness routine, how to maintain your motivation or get started with a new routine, or questions you have on a deeper

level about your physical health and fitness. Write in to DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. fellerdirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much,

you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle.

I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us.

Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. If you know me, you know I'm always

searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one. He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood.

He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, we're back with author Jodi Picoult. Okay, Jodi, we're going to give out some advice today. Okay, are you ready? I love it. I am. Well, Jodi, I know you write about a lot of controversial topics. So we have some controversial topics in our advice portion today. Great. But we're starting with a fun one. Sam is writing in and says, Dear Chelsea,

I'm a 49 year old divorced woman and I'm looking ahead as my last kid is headed off to college in a few years. Since my divorce, I've discovered how much I need and crave alone time. I didn't get much of it as a single parent, but as I've gotten older, I love it. I consider myself an extroverted introvert who really needs solitude to recharge. I've often dreamt that once my last kid leaves the nest, I would move out somewhere on the East Coast, work remotely for my job, and just enjoy peacefulness and calm in a small seaside town. I've started opening up about this to friends and family who have mostly thought I was kidding. But deep down, I really want this to be the trajectory for this next phase of life. I have a great network where I live. All my family

is here. We're a tight group. I'm getting some pushback, in particular from my sister, who cannot fathom that I would move away, saying that I should be preparing myself to be the doting grandmother around the corner. I guess I'm just looking for either some validation that I'm not crazy or a two by four across the head to knock some reality into me that just because my kids leave the house doesn't mean I should move away on some weird eat, pray, love journey, but should I, Sam? Wow. So, I mean, I, I'm a new grandma and let me tell you, it's the best thing ever, but I don't live around the corner from my grandkids. So everything is a journey for me, if I see them, or it's a journey for them to see me. And it feels to me from the letter you just

thread that honestly, she's already kind of made up her mind. She wants to go. And I don't think there's anything wrong with a mom who has been in the wings, watching her kids grow up, suddenly stepping out to be the focus of the limelight. I think if she is at all worried about making such a radical move, go rent an Airbnb for a few months and rent out your own house and see how it feels and then if it if it works then look for something more permanent but it sounds to me like she's kind of already made up her mind yeah a lot of our callers are right in or call in when they've made up their mind and they need another person to go yep you're doing the right thing and i would say as someone at the same exact age who did not have to raise children and did not

have to put my time and energy into someone if you're if you have a calling to spend time alone and you have a desire to do that, that means you have been deprived of that and that you need to go and run towards yourself with open arms. When we have these feelings and it's just someone's advice that is holding you back, that's not valid.

Like if someone's telling you, no, you shouldn't be doing that, you have every right to pursue your dreams and you haven't pursued them yet. And so like Jodi, what you're saying, you're a 49-year-old new grandmother. You've also pursued your dreams during all of this, right? You've been able to pursue who you want to be, I'm assuming.

Yeah, absolutely. Or I wouldn't be here today. But I also had an amazing support network. And I love that you might think I'm 49, but I'm 58. So right. Well, but I'm saying, yes. OK, yeah. Well, we're all 49 for this purpose of this conversation.

But yes, I think as women, I can't stress enough or try to help you enough to make the decision to do what you want to do, how you want to do it. You are free now of responsibility. there's no one saying there's having a grandchild or grandbaby any minute and then that's a bridge you cross when you get to it and all and Jodi's advice about getting something temporarily it's great advice I mean go try it out that way if you find a place and you're like oh I don't love this section of of town or this area you can pick up and move to another place and try it out there until you find a place that does fit and that doesn't but like your happiness is the most

important thing like you are in charge of it and no one else is bringing you the happiness yeah like she's got a vision for her life follow that vision and of course when you do have grandkids they're gonna love coming and seeing granny in the seaside town right yeah yeah i also think i think that the saddest thing in the world is when you get to the end of your life and you think what if i had done that you know i mean to me that would be the greatest loss and it's okay to fail because that means you were brave enough to try. But also in your book, like this woman is not given any choices along the way.

She is not given any choices. We live in a time where we have the ability to make a choice for ourselves. In the current time we are living in, you are allowed to go and do that. So go fucking do it. Sam, keep us posted when you find your Airbnb on the seaside.

Send us a picture. Yes. Jodi, before we move on, I have to tell you this. One of my favorite memories of my father, whose birthday it is today, not understanding what it's like to live with a teenage girl. I was reading My Sister's Keeper many years ago when I was 19. One of my favorite books of all time. So good.

Oh my gosh, thank you. And one of the best endings of all time. And I got to the end, I turned the final page, I'm weeping, sobbing uncontrollably. My dad hears this from the other room, comes out from his office and is like, oh my God, what's going on? Who died? Like total panic. and I was like couldn't breathe I'm just like pointing at the book like no it's just it's this he was so pissed at me because he's just like I truly thought that someone in our life had died but um you gave me that one of those wonderful memories because a man I know it's like men have never cried reading a book I guess it's like what do you notice Jodi when you're on planes that you

cry more when you're reading a book oh yeah so it's funny because when I was adapting the book thief I was writing part of the ending and I was crying really really really hard and like the flight attendant came over and wanted to make sure I was okay and my co-librettist when he was doing his part of the ending the flight attendant came over and gave him wine because we were just a wreck you know writing this on the on the plane so yeah I cry all the time when I write there's something about being in the altitude that makes you like I can watch something on a plane that I would not cry at in real life and I'll be crying. But anyway. Yeah. Well, our next question comes from Lynette. She is 27. She says, Dear Chelsea, I would love to get your opinion on how to ease

my new amazing man into my life, which includes my drug addicted dad and my currently imprisoned felon mother. I am my little sister's only parent. Practically, she lives with me and my new boyfriend knows that I've been the only stable mother figure for her, but he hasn't met her yet and really has no idea how bad my parents situation is. My fear is that it will all be too much for him as it has been for other partners in the past. I'm stressed and scared and don't know how to ease someone into a life with someone like me with a broken family. Any advice would mean the world to me. Thank you so much, Lynette. And she's joining us here. Hi, Lynette. Hi, Lynette. Hello. Hi. This is Jodi Pico, our special guest today. It's so nice to meet you. So what does

your boyfriend know? So at this point, he knows about my mom being in prison. And I've kind of shared how my dad smokes weed and has always done that. And, you know, back in the day was like a little bit of a drug dealer, but he doesn't know that he's homeless and like really, you know, a drug addict when it comes to like meth. And we've had a lot of disputes, me and him, my dad, and he still struggles with it and he's still really involved in like my little sister's life and you know he comes around here and there and you know holidays are coming up so he's probably going to meet him at some point and sorry um and I just don't know how to say it I feel like I'm withholding the truth almost from him really because when he meets him it's it's pretty

obvious like family has expressed how he doesn't look well and like where is he staying and he'll swing by just to like you know see my sister and me but I really don't want a relationship with my dad I've you know like I said I've had spats with him and I don't know it's just hard my little sister says the same thing like he's just so obviously crazy and doesn't want to change doesn't want help like he hasn't had a job for like over a year and he talks about getting a job and helping but doesn't really and the real thing we need him to do is he has he's working on my little sister's car she's about to get her license she really needs to have a car and that's really why we keep the contact is to just get him to at least do that fix the car bring it for her like

he promised he'd do but at this point it's like you've had over a year to do it and here we are you know and this boyfriend's so great like he helps us so much you know and I just feel so guilty that I haven't been totally honest and I'm afraid that the longer I wait you know the more distrust he's gonna build with me you know and I don't think he's not gonna accept it but it's just a hard conversation to have you know like even now talking about it is making me super anxious you know because oh my god you've had to bear so much responsibility for your family you're such an amazing sister thank you chelsea you are you know i think anybody would do what i'm doing but it's just hard because he's such a gaslighter and he's just always got an excuse for

everything for why he is the way he is and even like talking about the drugs he's like oh well it's just crystal and i'm like it's not just crystal it's it's a hard drug like why don't you see how it's broken our family how you shouldn't how you should look for help like you know my mom is in prison from a lot of issues with alcohol you know her second DUI like her first one was child endangerment for having my little sister in the car and they're just both so crazy and they make each other more crazy and they enable each other and it's like he he's always told me like I'm there for you I'll always be here for you like whatever you need but it's like, he really doesn't know just how bad it is. You know, we've only been dating

seriously for like a month. So. It sounds like you really need to set some boundaries with your parents. I don't know what the benefit is of having your father remain in your life in the condition he's in. I don't think that's going to have a good impact on your little sister. And it's definitely just adding a level of stress to your life. You already have enough that you're dealing with. Don't you agree, Jodi? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I also want to know, Lynette, what was his response, your boyfriend's response when you did tell him like that your mom was in prison and stuff? What did he say to you? He was really supportive. You know, he kind of said the same thing. Like, I don't know how you're managing everything that you are. Like, I'm here

for you. I can only imagine how hard it is. I've always been really involved. Like my parents have always been troubled and it's just pushed me away and wanted to push me to work harder and be better and it makes me build that spite too because it's like I've done it all for myself and what about your little sister she at one point was kind of like an empathizer and she like my dad is the cool guy and he's always the lax parent and so she would kind of talk to me and be like don't be so hard on him and like well he's trying and now that she's I think opened her eyes and a little bit older and realizes just how bad it is she she is getting kind of like a distaste for him and it just sucks that this is our dad and I'm like I know and you know that's heartbreaking for her to

be so young because I had it a little later like I was like in college when I really got to open my eyes to it all and here she is like 16 barely and having to deal with that and then also manage the fact that we have to balance this relationship so he will just own up to what he said he'll do for us and it's hard she's she's so strong and so mature and she really does handle it well but i know it's heartbreaking for her you know yeah what do you think about setting some boundaries can you set boundaries and tell him that he's not welcome to come by the house i don't think this car fucking matt like you can't depend on him for fixing the car he's unreliable and he's smoking crystal meth it's a wrap on him until he gets his shit together as far as responsibilities go i know

I know. And the thing is, like, she really does need it. And, you know, we could, I could try and do without it. But we do need the help. And he says it's a simple fix. So it should happen sooner than later. But I've already started like Chelsea, I was paying his phone bill for the last year. So recently I told him I was like, Dad, I can't do this anymore. Like this added expense is kind of crazy for me. Like if you can get your own phone, that would really help, you know, like. And so he's like, I know I'll do it. But by the end of the month, like I'll just get a Walmart phone and do it that way so that you don't have to pay for it. And I feel bad. You know, all my aunts, everybody tells me to like you need to stop paying his phone bill like he's not together. Yeah. And I think the types of boundaries that Chelsea is talking about are things like I'll pay it till the end of the month. And then at the end of the month, you shut the phone off. You know, whether or not he's gotten one for himself, you need to be focusing on protecting yourself, your energy and your sister. And right now, your dad is not a safe person to be around either one of you. I think you're right also about the car situation. I mean, if it's such an easy fix, someone else can do it. You know what I mean? It's almost like having anything that you need from him is not a good dynamic between somebody who is a drug addict. You don't want to have anything from him and you don't want him to come by like you have to set a boundary before you even, you know, broach this with your boyfriend. And I would say like, listen, the more honest, the better in every situation. I prefer honesty. I mean, yes, it's a month long relationship. It's very new.

It is a lot of information, but you're so sweet and loving like that. You don't have bad vibes. You're not trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes. And I'm sure he sees that in you, you know, and I think you should be honest and be honest about why you've kept it from him. And I wonder if maybe he'll surprise you with some sort of ideas and solutions about boundaries, too, because you've you're raising your sister because your father and mother can't do it. There's no reason you should be helping them in any way. You already have enough to deal with.

Yeah. And right now, I want you to focus on building your support system. So whether that's like relying on your aunties, cultivating this relationship with your boyfriend and with your sister, reach out to people who are in your circle already, who you know you can rely on and trust. Work on cultivating your support network because your dad is not part of it. He just can't be part of it anymore. And setting a boundary with people like that is is an act of love. That doesn't mean you don't love him. Even if he says you don't love me, this is terrible. How could you do this?

you have to know coming from me that that is an act of love that's an act of love on behalf of your father and your sister and yourself by saying no we don't want you around here in the shape you're in we don't want to see this anymore you know and that's about respecting yourself and your sister yeah you're right it's what i need to do to protect her and keep her you know on the right path and you know push him to realize like there's no excuse it's it it is what it is and you're right I need to establish the boundaries really I think also you've been such a role model for your sister and if she's kind of at this waffling stage where she is seeing do I have responsibility to my dad or can I make that break seeing you being able to set those hard boundaries

I think is going to be really helpful to her. Yeah, you're right. Thank you. That's so true. I want you to know too that you are not alone. There are a lot of people who have gone through similar situations. So I'm going to help you look for like maybe an Al-Anon, which is for families of people who have alcohol and drug addiction,

or some kind of therapy in your area that will be low cost or free and that you can go in and keep building that support system. Okay. Thank you so much. And I also just before you go, like, I really want you to recognize what an incredible thing you've done. And like, what are you are continuing to do? There are so much value in what you've provided for your sister, which is stability, love and comfort. Like there is no number you can put on that and the impact you're having on her life. And I'm sure the impact on your she's

having on your life. And just because everybody would probably do that doesn't mean that it's without the value that you have brought to the situation and that alone is going to give you the ability to move forward with your new boyfriend to move forward with new boundaries for your father you are her role model just like jody said and so with every act moving forward and that includes being honest with your boyfriend think of yourself setting an example for your younger sister yeah yeah thank you thank you so much okay good luck with anything with everything thank you so much for calling in love you guys thank you bye honey oh my god i know i know such a sweetheart i do also think um maybe chelsea we can do a go fund me with the dear

chelsea listeners and like get that car fixed yeah i would love oh yeah yeah yeah let's do that yeah yeah great so we'll put that in the show notes so you guys can donate there sweetie pie i know i know well let's take a quick break i've got one more caller who's also got a bit of a sticky situation okay we'll take a break and we'll be right back there's no shortcut for saving time but saving money is simple just combine your car and home insurance with bel-air direct and save get a quote at bel-air direct.com when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart

and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up, don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society,

the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right

place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies

you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip. I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space.

You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one. He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood. He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back with Jodi Picoult. We are back. Well, our last caller today is TJ, and he is a flight attendant. He says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a gay male in my 30s, and I've worked as a flight attendant for a major U.S. carrier going on seven years. For the entire length of that career, I have been poked, prodded, touched, tapped, nudged, and flicked. Over the last couple of years, I've become more frustrated with people touching me to get my attention. When I was more junior in my career, I would just brush it off and keep it moving. These days, I make it a point to let people know they don't get to touch me.

Here's where things get, quote, touchy for me. Very recently, a grown woman slapped my ass as I was bent over grabbing her something from the cart during our beverage service in the main cabin. It was completely embarrassing and triggering for me to have experienced this in my place of work, and even worse, when I laid down the law with her, she said nothing, had no remorse, and acted like I was in the wrong for telling her not to make unwarranted sexual advances. I requested police meet the flight, had her escorted off, filed a police report, and requested to press charges. I have a sneaking suspicion nothing will be done about this, as we don't have much follow-through with instances like these. I'm wondering if I

should take matters into my own hands and bring my own legal counsel. As the unofficial spokesperson for flight attendants, Chelsea, I'm wondering if you have any litigious insight for me. Best, TJ. Hi, TJ. Hi. Hi, this is Jodi. This is our special guest today. Jodi. Hi. I'm so sorry that happened to you. It's like the women's movement is moving so quickly. It's flashing before our eyes. Now we're acting like men. I know it's the pendulum is swinging. I don't know. I mean, it's this is really a personal question. I know. I mean, it feels like you really want your voice to be heard. And if you were a woman in this situation, I would say, you know, be indefatigable in your desire and pursuit to have your voice heard. So I guess I would say the same thing to you,

because it takes someone it takes like a whistleblower to get the party started. Like the fact that people still think that they can touch flight attendants is a little bit antiquated. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's interesting because I felt like it wasn't being taken very seriously in the moment. As I discussed with Catherine, I had looped the pilots into what was going on and their response was, oh, well, we'll get a gate agent to meet the flight and talk to the passenger. And I said, no, I want police because if this was one of the female flight attendants getting groped by a man we would be landing this fucking plane so like it with the program absolutely was there alcohol involved was she drunk so i keep people keep asking that

question and she was kind of a weirdo but she wasn't like she wasn't showing signs of intoxication like red eyes slurred speech and you know we're kind of trying to look for those things in fact she was ordering a drink from me and of course that didn't happen it was odd and just for more context as I was handing the drink over is when she slapped me and I shot up and so before I could even say anything she looked at me and said sorry I just couldn't help myself and that's when I just like went in for the kill yeah oh my god it feels like the flight like flying and airplanes and airplane announcements need a major fucking update like between people wearing flip-flops or taking their shoes off and rubbing their feet there was a somebody sent me a dm the other day of somebody

drying their underwear in front of their seat in first class they had their underwear out and it was hanging on some on their tray table like some hook above it and drying and i was like oh oh my god we need an update in the aviation system of when people board planes to understand that there are rules and regulations and you're not allowed to physically touch a flight attendant. So if you really have the energy to go after this, I would say fucking go for it and try and change the system. You know, I mean, this is because you're it's absolutely true. Women can get away with that kind of behavior now that men can't as easily. The behavior has to apply to all sexes. So I would say if you have the like, you know, if you have the resources and you want to go after it, go after

it. Otherwise, I mean, I think you should go after it with the intention of actually making the airlines acknowledge that this is an ongoing problem and they need to address it when everybody is boarding the flight, like they address all the other things. And I've heard that, by the way, on planes. I've heard that, especially during COVID. I've heard pilots say, do not get upset with your flight attendant. She is not the one making you wear a mask. You know, like they had all these preliminary announcements that were varying from airline to airline, but they were addressing it. And that does need to be a more permanent announcement. I mean, ever since this happened, I hop on the interphone before we even go out in the aisle. And I say, as a reminder,

take out your headphones when you're speaking to us and do not touch the flight attendants. It's a petting zoo. It's insane. But perfect. Yeah. You're doing it already. Also, the other thing that I would recommend is if there's a way to escalate this through your company, that's really important because then it can become a company-wide policy. But think about other places that you can speak out and tell your story, you know, so in terms of I don't know if this is this is a great place, for example, but there are other other outlets like this media. There might be someone who would be willing to do a local story on it on the news or something like that. That might be a really interesting place to spread the word, which I think is is really important. Yeah, I feel like that aspect of things is more paramount than the litigious aspect.

you want to spread awareness on every issue you know and and sometimes when we go after something legally it's like it becomes such negative energy that you're putting towards it so i'm always looking for an avenue not to do that dean i think that's the biggest problem i'm having with this is i'm not like a litigious person by nature i'm not vindictive and going after somebody on a civil level for like a monetary value seems kind of icky but i'm like is this a way for me to turn that page? Is this something where I can see like, oh, something has been done about this. This person has been punished. But but listen, I think the spreading awareness is more important than the punishing of this woman. She learned her lesson. She learned it. She's not going to

do that again, most likely. You know what I mean? She got it. You didn't react well to that. So I mean, hopefully she did. But I think what Jodi is saying is right. Like you're telling the story here. Millions of people will hear this. And you're making the announcement yourself on your flights, which is great. And keep doing that. You know what I mean? Because if I heard that on a plane, that's going to make me go, oh, my God, who touched who? You know, what happened here that we're being told that? So and you should talk to other flight attendants about it. And anytime you can tell the story, do it. And if you're a journalist or a podcaster listening who wants to dig more into this story, contact me and I can put you in touch with TJ.

Yeah. Gorgeous. All right. Well, thanks for calling in. Yeah. Thank you for having me on. Thanks so much, TJ. Good luck with everything. I hope I see you on a flight. I hope so, too. Well, I'll waterboard you with some vodka. OK, and then I'll smack you on the ass. It'll be perfect. OK, bye. Lesson learned. Lesson learned. Yeah. Thank you so much. OK, bye bye. OK, Jodi, we're going to wrap up with you. First of all, what a great description

of your book. I want to say thank you for describing your book in that way, because many authors have a lot of trouble talking about their own books so it's very refreshing to see someone with such a great sense of humor and so relatable giving us all this information which may not be so relatable but coming from the filter of you makes it more so thank you thank you for reading the book i really appreciate it and i i just hope that i hope people really take it to heart and see that a lot's changed in 400 years but a lot sure hasn't yeah i think they will i think they will all right thanks so much jody take care take care bye bye okay so upcoming shows that i have you guys i will be all over maine charlotte north carolina charleston south carolina i'm

coming to texas i'm coming to st louis and kansas city and then i will be in las vegas performing at the Chelsea Theater inside the Cosmopolitan Hotel. My first three dates in Vegas are September 1st, Labor Day weekend, and then November 2nd and November 30th. I'm coming to Brooklyn, New York at the King's Theater on November 8th. And I have tickets on sale

throughout the end of the year in December. So if you're in a city like Philadelphia or Bethlehem or San Diego or New Orleans or Omaha, check chelseahandler.com for tickets. Okay. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law.

And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. I survived nine months in captivity. And I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility.

Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse each week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions yeah i'm obsessed i'm us. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. You know, I'm always searching for

inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.

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