Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Dream Requiem with Rufus Wainwright

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Pop icon, composer and legendary beauty Rufus Wainwright joins Chelsea to discuss why his music is the subject of scrutiny of the world’s leaders, how to hold failure and acceptance in the same hand, how to keep a glimmer of hope when you’re a tortured artist, and all about his new work featuring Jane Fonda. Then:  A hot tub romance heats up. A journal-reading boyfriend blames the victim.  And the sands of time have one caller wondering if she should call her mother.  * Get tickets to Rufus’ Dream Requiem with Jane Fonda here! * Order a signed copy of Chelsea’s new book HERE! * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Hi, Chelsea. How are you today? I'm good. Doug has diarrhea. He's in Canada. My friend Cynthia texted me this morning saying, She felt like Doug was depressed when I left. And I said, I doubt it. And then she said, no, he really misses you.

And then she goes, actually, he hasn't eaten his food all day. And I go, oh, my God. Oh, my God. He does love me. You gave him your stomach bug. Well, at first I thought he does love me. He does love me. And then I was like, wait a second.

I had food poisoning. And then I was like, did he get food poisoning? Anyway, he had diarrhea on her couch and on her carpet. So I was like, okay, I'll be back sooner than later to get him. And anyway, I was like, we can replace all of those things. We can replace your house. We can replace. She goes, he's so high.

He's got such energy. And I go, just put him outside while he's sick. He's happy to stay outside and sleep outside. He prefers it because he's so fucking hot with all that hair. And she's like, okay, but just so you know, like bears come through the backyard. And I was like, oh, I was like, well, I mean, he'll probably find his whole family. Those are his ancestors. You know what I mean?

It's so true. He is basically a bear. He is a bear. So I don't know how long he's going to last in Canada, but I have people who say— Hopefully long enough to come back to L.A. Well, he might not get in with the fucking way immigration is going. Who knows if they'll stop him at the border? I mean, he is black.

Who knows? They'll make up some fucking excuse. You know what I mean? Where are his papers? I know. Well, I do have his paperwork, actually, ironically. I should probably sell that to somebody. Well, not sell it.

Give it to somebody. Listen to me. I would just like to say that it's early in the morning today, and I got myself a parking spot. All by myself. She did. I paid the meter. I did it effectively. And it wasn't even in the normal place?

It wasn't in a normal place. I parked up the street. We're at a studio. I went by my real house this morning to check on things. There was a lot of drilling going on. God. Mm-hmm. I was telling Brad this morning, I'm like, I don't even know what exactly is happening at the house.

I just don't want to bring it up. Nobody asks me anymore, and nobody should. Nobody asks me what's going on with my house. If you're listening to this and you want to rent a big house in Los Angeles for a lot of money, Hit me up on DMs because, yeah, I'm going to rent that house out. Great. Until I make my money back. That's perfect.

And I'll live in Whistler or Spain or, I don't know, Guantanamo Bay. You know, whatever place welcomes me. Exactly. People can rent that if they're fans of yours or RFK Jr. I mean, it's great. Yes, this is a, what is it, a cautionary tale. Cautionary tale. True.

I had one great house-building experience, and I got very confident, overconfident. And then I now have another house-building experience, and I will never, ever build anything again. Yeah. Well, speaking of Trump's cabinet, we have one of Trump's favorite people. They shouldn't even be called a cabinet. That's a fucking thing. That's an item you'd find in my house. That doesn't work.

It's not a cabinet. It's like a fucking broken toaster is his cabinet. Yes, we have somebody who has had friction with Trump on today. He's an amazing singer, songwriter, composer, and legendary beauty. Please welcome Rufus Wainwright. Hi, good morning. Hello. Hello.

Oh, hi, Rufus. Hi. Wow, look at you. You're like me, way early. Yeah. Yeah, no way early, but. And for a musician, no less. I mean, this is what, what is happening? Well, I have, I have a 14 year old child.

Yes. I know about that. And you have to wake up early to breastfeed. Yeah. Yeah. I have to be on call basically 24 seven for any kind of horrific situation. Absolutely. I understand. Yeah. Is that better? Okay. You look very thin. You look really thin on this. Is that what you said you're going for? Well, I was more going for Marlene Dietrich, but Finn will work. Well, Finn and Marlene Dietrich. Rufus, first of all, well, there's a lot to talk about. Yes. Dream Requiem, which is what we're here to talk about. But first, I want to just to mention a couple of things. I know that the Trump campaign used your song, Hallelujah, your Leonard Cohen cover, Hallelujah, and you were pissed about that. So I was curious about that,

too. Like, obviously, your agents and managers or whomever get involved, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, I was pissed, but I think above pissed, I was more just sort of flabbergasted and completely, you know, shocked in the sense that just because it was also so weird how it was used. Like, it wasn't just used as a rally, you know, ending thing where people were shaking hands. He turned it into this sort of, you know, group dance slash prayer moment of, you know, seeking forgiveness. And that was a horrified shockness. And then I was pissed. Yeah, I'm shocked and horrified. First of all, I'm not Catholic or religious in any way, shape, or form.

I'm shocked and horrified when they use any sort of religious backdrop or there are people praying with him. I find that so offensive to real religion. I have a little bit of a scoop for you, though. Oh, great. We love that. Regarding this. I don't think I've talked about this yet, but, and it's sort of out there a little bit, but, so that happened, right? And then, and then this is before he won the election. Or, yeah, I guess he won the election. He won, Rufus. We're living in a, we're living in hell. And to answer your previous question, I'm in Canada right now. I'm in Canada right now, for real.

Well, you're Canadian. I'm trying to become Canadian. Okay. Are you really in Canada? I'm in Whistler. Yeah. Oh, right. Okay. So we're both in exile and probably will remain so for a few years. But what happened is that he won the election, and then one of the first visitors that he had was Justin Trudeau, the prime minister of Canada, our ex-prime minister, as we went down. And I'd met Justin a couple of times, you know, on Grindr, and I'm just kidding. But anyway, so then I got a call a few days later from Justin Trudeau, the prime minister, telling me that, he said, I got this funny story for you.

And so I answered the phone, yes, Mr. Prime Minister, make me laugh. And he said that when he was down in Mar-a-Lago, they were sitting together, and at one point, Hallelujah came up on the sound system in the ballroom, but it was Andrea Bocelli's version of Hallelujah, the song, at which point Trump turned to Justin Trudeau and said, you know Rufus's version, right? And then Justin Trudeau said, oh, yes, I know. I know Rufus's version. But you have to give Jeff Buckley some credit because he's the first person to cover the song. At which point I'm on the phone with Justin Trudeau like, wait a minute. He brought up the Jeff Buckley. Like I started to, whatever. I was a bit riled internally.

I also find it a bit surprising that Trump is aware of different covers of that song. I don't know. Well, he is. So then Justin said to him, yes, but you have to give Jeff Buckley some credit. At which point Trump said, oh, okay, well, maybe. 20 minutes later, Trump walked up to Justin and said, you know, Rufus's version is really the best version. At which point, Justin went, yes, it is the best version. So in terms of like hallelujah versions, I'm a total Trumpian, but that's about it. Yeah. Well, I'm glad.

I mean, what an endorsement. Trump believes that yours is the best version of hallelujah. I know, I know. So you got that, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I've been seeking that for years. And it's all I've ever wanted, really, is to be acknowledged as the greatest singer of hallelujah.

Um, forget my operas, forget my children, you know? So let's talk Dream Requiem because I know that you have, Jane Fonda was, is going to, is she narrating it? Is that the proper terminology? Yes. What it is, is that I, many years ago, I discovered this amazing poem by Byron called Darkness. And he wrote it in 1814, which was this year, uh, that there was this incredible insane In Earth, not Earthquake, what's another thing that we're about to have?

Economic crash? Volcano. Oh, okay. Volcano that went off, that erupted, that went off in Southeast Asia. And the entire world was dark for a year. There was no season. And everybody thought the world was ending. It was the year that they wrote, that Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein.

So it was like the most kind of gothic year. And that was 1814, you said? Yeah. It's the most gothic year except for this year. Uh-huh. We've now eclipsed that. But so then he wrote that poem. You took that poem.

So I fell in love with the poem. It's all about the end of the world, and it's about ecological collapse. And then I was composing this Requiem Mass, and I decided to put them together. And I was maybe going to compose the music to the English words, but English is crap. And unless it's like rock and roll or rap, it sounds terrible if it's sung operatically. So I quickly, you know, shifted it and said, oh, we'll have a narrator, which in the end has turned out to be an amazing kind of trick. I don't want to say trick, ploy, where, you know, because it premiered in Paris and we had Meryl Streep there as the narrator and our recording is available on Warner Classics. And yeah, and Jane is doing it in L.A. Have you heard anything about how she got the job?

No, tell us. Well, I, look, Jane and I have, I know you're friends, too, or you've hung out. Yeah. I mean, I'd run into her over the years here and there, but we never quite, you know, bonded. But we were at this, I had just done the Requiem in Paris with Meryl, and we were at the Hammer Gala in L.A. And I went there, and I was with my husband and Jorn, and we arrived, and I saw Jane. And we kind of ended up in just the same corner. We just started talking, and it started to click.

You know, we just started to jive, as they say. Is it jive or jibe? I don't know. I'm so white. Anyways. I think it's jibe, but I'm also white. Okay. So who fucking knows?

Okay, we were doing something cool, and it was weird. But so we're talking, and then I sat to her, and I started talking about the Dream Requiem. And I said, you know, we did it in Paris with Meryl, and actually it's coming to L.A. We don't have a narrator yet, but it's going to come to Disney Halls with the Master Chorale. And at the end of that little speech, Jane turned to me and she said, Rufus, I'm doing it. I was like, excuse me?

She's like, no, I'm going to, I will do it with you. She immediately hired herself, which, I mean, I was overjoyed, also a little shocked. And then it's just from there on, you know, we've been hanging out a lot and she's come to a few of my shows. And she's just so, like when she wants something or loves something. Yeah, she's very present. Yeah, yeah. And so I'm just, I don't know, I felt very, it's been one of the great, great things in my life

in the midst of all of this darkness and stuff. So when is this performance in L.A.? The performance is in L.A. It's May the 4th at Disney Hall. It's also with the Master Chorale, which is probably the greatest choir in America. Wow, yeah, even I know who they are. Yeah, no, they're amazing.

And look, it's something, I don't in any way, Look, as much as Trump likes to think that he rules the world, I kind of would like to say, well, maybe Trump, you exist because I wrote this death mass and it's premiering at the perfect time. So you're just the backdrop to my music. So I'm kind of trying to turn it around because it is eerie how, you know, just the whole, you know, the apocalyptic, dark, you know, it's a perfect thing to be putting out right now. That's all I want to say. Yeah, it's also, you know, I was, I don't know where I read this, what book I read this in, probably my favorite book, Letting Go, but it's about being like, you know, even in times of strife or when the world is a dark place, there are people who could create art and people who can thrive within the darkness and not off of the darkness. I'm not talking about like to the tech billionaires on all of that. I'm saying people who can thrive, who make something happen even amidst all the darkness and continue to thrive. Yeah, well, I am very much fueled, as you said, not fueled by the darkness, but I am, how can I say this? I am attuned to that sensibility in my work. I've always loved opera. I've always loved written ballads and very intense music. So I love, so yes, artistically, I'm in a very good place. But what's funny when you bring up the tech bros, because they have no artistic sense whatsoever. I mean, what's so kind of horrific about that whole situation is that their idea of art is like them dressed as the Mona Lisa or something, you know, with like a banana in the background.

You know, they just have no aesthetic sense or anything. So they're not even, I don't know, like artistically, they cannot be. Yeah, so it's up to me. Right, right. It's up to true artists. Yeah, to actually show up. Yeah, and they think they're artists. They think they're artists.

Do they think they're artists, though? I mean, they're clearly devoid of. They think they're everything. Yeah, right. They think they're sexy, too, which is pretty. Yeah, well, that's the most revolting part. The assumed sex appeal is so revolting. I mean, I can't think of anyone, any group of guys that are less fuckable than all of those guys. Talk to me about Dream Requiem. So tell me how you would, first of all, I hate this question when I'm asked how I would describe one of my shows, but I'm going to ask you without saying those words. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, look, I'm a big, as I said before, classical music fan. And the first piece that really got me going when I was 13 was Verdi's Requiem. The composer Verdi, he wrote this amazing Requiem. It's one of the great ones. And I just became obsessed with it. And it sort of began my whole journey in that realm. It was a little freakish for my dad, especially, who's not a big opera fan, to see, you know, his 13-year-old son in the corner in the dark with headphones on listening to, you know, Day of Wrath and stuff like that.

But I stuck it out, or everybody stuck it out. And now, you know, I've written, you know, several classical works and also pop works and all that stuff. And now I just feel like it's time to give back to that. But I will say, are you Catholic at all? No. You're probably anti-Catholic. You hate it. Yeah, I'm not anything at all.

Were you brought up Catholic? I was brought up Jewish, actually. You were brought up Jewish. Okay, sorry. Okay, there you go. But I am not anything. I'm not even baptized Catholic. I was brought up in a Catholic environment.

My mother was Catholic, and I went to Catholic school. How was that? Well, you know, it wasn't great in a sense, But it was really, they really ingrained it in you in the sense that I was a little shocked when I went to compose it and I was working with all of those prayers, you know, the Latin Mass. Wow. Just how fast it came out and how it's just like wired into me, for better or for worse. Probably more for worse in a lot of ways. That's how I am with state capitals.

Those are wired into me. Sounds nice. So anyway, so I, so I just started composing it and then, and it just came up really fast and went, and it's just one of these things where the idea came and then I said, okay, that sounds like a nice idea. I'd like to see, to see if anybody's interested. And we asked Paris first. And then within two months, there was 10 commissioners, 10 cities all over the world that wanted to

do it. There was a real kind of need for it. It was right after COVID. So I think people were, whatever, they were pretty gloomy. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think they could relate to that. The other thing, which I don't, do you know anything about the dog situation?

Uh-uh, no, I don't know anything about anything. Okay, well, this is interesting because, you know, the Requiem, it's dedicated to two individuals. The first one is dedicated to Verdi, the composer, because, you know, of that. But then the second dedication is to Puccini, who most people would think is an opera composer, which he is. But Puccini, and I say this in the thing, used to be our little dog. We had a dog named Puccini. And actually within the poem, Byron's poem, Byron adored dogs. And in the poem, there's a dog that dies in the middle of the poem.

It's kind of the most touching moment of the piece, or one of the many touching moments. And we, my husband and I, we had a little dog named Puccini. And so we dedicated it also to the little dog. So there's a big dog element to the piece as well for dog lovers. So if you hate opera. But it's a whole opera, right? It's not just one piece. No, it's one piece.

It's only one piece. Yeah, it's a mass. And it starts with some of the poem and then it goes into the mass. Like the choir sings all the religious mass stuff and then the poem is recited by the narrator. And at a certain point they intertwine. But it's 75 minutes. It's like there's no intermission or anything.

It's just there. You're in and you're out. And yeah, so it's, I'm very excited about it. I mean, I've been fighting years and years and years to make it into the classical world. And it seems like I've done it with this piece of music, which is very exciting. Of course, right at the time that I did that, I wrote a musical in London called Opening Night, which totally flopped. so so i kind of the broadway world kind of or the west end world in london kind of you know gave me the boot right as you know the classical world opened so so it's always it's been an interesting

journey you always gonna have a door shut down on you at some point well a door shut down on you right before a different door opens yeah there you go yeah you can never have just the door open and it's all great that's a cliche because or well an adage i said i suppose because it's true i mean that does happen. So talk to me about it artistically, how that, how that makes you feel like when you are rejected and then you are accepted into a different world, like how do you balance those emotions? Yeah, no, I look when I did the musical opening night, which, which by the way, we did record and we're releasing it, uh, the, the soundtrack album and it's, the songs are great. And I think the piece was actually kind of great. It was just a little out

there for, it was based on the John Cassavetes movie at opening night. Anyways. So I was, so depressed when that whole thing collapsed and to the point where you know i had to go on medication and stuff like it was very it was pretty dark i mean there was a lot of other things happening but that was you know kind of took me down and has that happened to you before professionally creatively it's happened to me once before uh but but i but i didn't i didn't kind of seek treatment for it i was i just sort of not white knuckled it through the whole thing But this time, I just needed a little bit of help. And I got it, and it was great.

You know, I was able to come back. But right as that was happening, you know, the Requiem was premiering in Paris, and I had, you know, Meryl Streep there sitting next to me, listening to it for the first time. And I was able to appreciate how special the whole thing was and how lucky I was to be in that situation. But yes, there was this gnawing sort of sense, which sort of limited me in my in my joy at the time of my greatest triumph.

Right. So but let's talk about that, because I think that is very relatable to, you know, not only people in the industry, but I think people, you know, a lot of things you get good news or you get bad news and it's hard to kind of pick yourself up from that. And like when you look back at that time, do you think that there was anything you would have done differently or that you will do differently in the future if something like that were to happen again? Well, I mean, look, I'm speaking of religions and stuff. I mean, I don't want to do it, but I guess, you know, you have to be sort of Buddhist about it and say, you know, you have to let go of that attachment and that kind of idea of being, you know, fulfilled by your ego or whatever. And so that's probably the wise way to do it is just to not try to feel nothing a little bit in a sense or just be, you know, very low key about it. But, you know, look, then I wrote 10 songs in my depths, in the depths of my sadness that I'm now going to put on a pop record. And so it's also for an artist, I think that's actually more what I struggle with is just, and that I've realized now in my 50s is that there is this kind of machine that I've created where, you know, I get depressed and then I write songs and then I feel better, but then I got to get depressed in order to write a song. And then in order, you know, it's this cycle that, you know, certainly creates a lot of material and, but it is a little bit diabolical at times.

Yes, I'm sure. I'm sure it is. I mean, that's the life of an artist, typically, right? And it's a good, I mean, I think we're fortunate. But when I see people, young people, especially when they're like, oh, I want to be an artist. And, you know, my first comment will usually be to say, well, you can't tell me you want to be an artist. You have to be an artist. Like, you are an artist and good luck. yeah it's not easy it's not easy no it's not like anyone really takes care of you as an artist emotionally and i'm not sure in what world you are taking care of emotionally unless it's by your spouse or you know yeah family but at a certain point when you go through all of the highs and lows of having any career a public career also you start to learn to rely on yourself for your emotional well-being you're like no one can help me with this yes you can talk to a therapist and of course you can you know go on medication and in like incremental times or

whatever you need it whatever yeah but no one takes care of you and like I think as an artist there's this attitude at least I had this attitude younger like when things didn't go right like you fix it you deal do you do that and like yes well that can be many people's responsibilities in your life you actually just have to take the emotional burden of everything it's your name on it it's your failure or success and then it's your pressure yeah and then it's and then in the end it's your glory when it comes to fruition but at that glorious moment there's always a little bit of there's always a chink in the armor always uh yeah yeah which is isis the way it is yeah it would be great to figure out a way and i'm good at this sometimes but not foolproof to welcome the the

failure to welcome the pain you know like bring it on because every time you have a failure we all know that something a rainbow is around the corner like something happens well i mean i have a little thing to do with that which i kind of relate to yin and yang where anytime i'm happy anytime i'm somewhat euphoric, I just always say, look, I'm going to take a little piece of this and hide it somewhere so that when I'm in the dark, I can, you know, pull it out and use it as a kind of flashlight. So, but I think it's something you have to cognitively do. And practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right. We're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Rufus Wainwright. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, write into us at DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. We'd love to hear your questions for any juicy story you'd like advice on. This week, we're specifically looking for questions about surrogacy and fertility issues. So if you've gone through IVF or are planning to, please write in at DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. The Jonas Brothers are running it back. We live the Burning Up Tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brothers hits that have defined a generation. One incredible celebration.

One unforgettable night. See the Jonas Brothers live at RBC Amphitheater, September 28th. Get tickets now at Ticketmaster.ca. Jonas Brothers, the Burning Up Tour, all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally

important to your personality welcome home this is prose society the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for thought daughters pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse i'm eli rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita,

trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself.

So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Rufus Rainwright. Hi. Hi. We're going to take some callers, Rufus.

Are you down? Are you ready to rumble? Yeah, yeah. Okay. I'm ready to rumble. Well, before we get to advice, Rufus, I have to tell you that my husband, who's the engineer here who was floating around

to you on the Zoom. You are actually the reason that we met. Oh, really? In 2005, I went to go see your concert at Ravinia in August in 2005. And I was going with a friend. We met at a friend's house ahead of time. And who should walk out

but this dreamy, tall guy. And here we are 20 years later. Oh, that's so sweet. Oh, beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful. I saw you, Rufus, at some small place in Santa Monica a few years ago. Maybe not a few. Maybe 10. It was really fun, though.

It was only, like, it was a small room with, like, 100 people, and everyone was getting down to business. Oh, it was, it was, I think it was, yeah, it was McCabe's or something. Yes, yes, yes, it was McCabe's. Yeah, yeah, those were some, those were great shows. Those were fun shows. All right. Well, our first question is just an email, not a caller. So this question comes from Tina.

Subject line is, son's sexual preference. Dear Chelsea, I've been a fan of your podcast for a number of years. I love what you stand for and the advice that you give on your podcast. I listen every morning when I walk my dog before work. I'm a 47-year-old single mom with three children who are all grown. I like to think of myself as very open-minded and progressive when it comes to most things. I've always made it very clear to my children that whatever road they choose in their sexuality is their choice and free from judgment, and then this happened.

My 21-year-old son told me tonight that he's dating a trans person, a woman who has been transitioning to be a man. I maintained complete composure and acted cool, but inside, I was really just feeling a little bit of turmoil. I love that. I love that honesty. I maintained composure. Yes. My son is the most beautiful, sweet, kind, and best person ever, and all I want for him is to be happy.

I've always known or suspected that he was gay or otherwise, but I guess I'm just scared for him, but at the same time, so proud of him for just loving another human regardless of their sexual identity or preference. I guess I'm asking for help on navigating through our extended family, some of which, including my sister and her husband, are very conservative. My mama bear instincts are out, and I think I'm feeling more protective than judgmental for him, but also feeling a little bit confused of my own feelings about the situation. Many thanks, Tina. I think this is easy, Tina. I don't think you have to make any proclamations or announcements to your family, like your

extended family. like first of all get to know your son's new love interest and spend time with them and like and and and and just keep opening your heart and your mind because you're going to learn lots of things that you didn't know about and that's going to really normalize the situation and you kind of calling attention to it too even though i understand you're being a protective mama bear because i'm a mother and i know what that meat feels like i'm more of a father but like putting an exclamation point on everything i don't think is helpful like i think you should just act with grace and normalcy like this is normal when they meet the person whether or not they realize that

they're trans or not is is is inconsequential to you like that's not something that you need to like preface or tell them before let them deal with the situation and when when it comes around i would suggest just going i didn't think that was information that was necessary because you're protecting by telling your sister and her husband who are more conservative you're protecting them You're not protecting your son. You're protecting their feelings and making sure they have all the cards. They don't need all the cards. This isn't their love life.

This is your son's love life. So all you can do is show up for him in a really responsible and present way. Rufus, what do you think? Well, you know, I wanted to, I totally agree with what you're saying, but I also want to sort of praise her for even being, you know, open to stuff. Because my mother, this was back in the 80s, when she found out I was gay, she had a cigarette in one hand and the scotch in the other. And she said, Ruvus, don't tell me something I don't want to hear.

Uh-oh. So I was, you know, that was, so I'm someone who, you know, whenever I hear a parent who's, you know, really trying to do the right thing, it's so important and should be really, really celebrated because unfortunately still, I, you know, I just hear these horror stories with parents who are just out of their mind, you know, when this stuff comes up. And so you're being the dad, I'm being the mom. Yeah, well, perfect. We're perfectly, we're parenting perfectly.

I also think like open, open, open. Just keep your mind open. Like you're going to learn things. You're going to be surprised by the things you learn and just be open-hearted and open-minded. Be proud of yourself for being open. Yeah, be proud of yourself and just keep thinking like, you know, I understand the protective aspect,

but like we're not there yet. You don't have to, don't worry about your son's, your son's happiness is paramount to anything else. Just be open to that and open to understanding his world. And that way, you're going to set the foundation for him to be always comfortable coming to you, talking to you about these things, talking to you about these issues. And the last thing you want to be is shut out from any of that. So yes, just move forward with grace and openheartedness.

Yeah. And I will also say just like a tiny asterisk. I think she did a really good job just like containing any fear or confusion that she might have had. Composing herself. Yeah, composing herself. But one tiny asterisk, Tina, is just on the sexual preference language, you know, nowadays we say more like sexual orientation because it really is part of somebody's identity, not a choice, really, that they're making. And I think once you get to know this person, you know, I think the only scary thing is having not ever met a trans person.

And once you get to know them, you're like, oh, they're just a person, you know, they just act like everybody else. they're just that was a and a sort of end of my mother's story which is kind of nice and maybe softens it a bit as you know when she was when i finally did come out to her we were in paris and she went to notre dame cathedral and she was brought up catholic so she went and she prayed and she claims that she got a message from somewhere that said you know rufus is like any other person you just have to treat him like any other person and it is that message i think what That comes out eventually, that we're all just people, and that's it. Yeah, that message that needs to be transmitted to the entire world.

Yes, yes. That a human being is a human being, regardless of anything else. Yes. Well, our next question comes from Amber. Amber says, Dear Chelsea, I met someone in the coolest way. We met in a hot tub in Michigan.

I live in Washington, and he lives in New York. He's my best friend, and he totally gets me. I never thought I'd meet someone like him. I know he is the one. I have a great career in Washington and a fantastic community and friends. He has two kiddos and not the best job prospects where he lives. I'm so torn because I love my life, but I also love him. What do I do?

It's important to know I'm turning 40 this year and have never been married. I want to marry this man. Hopeless in Washington, Amber. Hi, Amber. This is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today. Hi. That's so cool. Okay.

So you fell in love in a hot tub in Michigan. You don't want to leave Washington because your whole life is there. Yeah. And what state is he in? He's in New York. Oh, okay. So you'd have to move to New York.

What part of New York? Like rural Northern New York, like close to the Canadian border. Okay. Well, that is a pickle because we're not talking about any major city here. Yikes. I mean,

that could be good to be close to the border for other reasons. How far is it from Montreal? um well i we actually went to toronto like last month oh i was there toronto okay okay yeah like he drove he drove like four hours to toronto and then i oh four hours to toronto okay that is that is far yeah i mean listen if you're in love and you know it and you feel it and you're 40 and you're ready to take a plunge for somebody then you got to do what you got to do i wouldn't want to move there but i'm not in love with anyone that lives there that is so true but like you know i have like this whole community here i bought a house my friends are here my job is here

although will i have a job in a few months i don't know because it's grant funded lovely sure and now i assume that like he can't move because of the kids right like a custody situation how How old are the kids? 11 and two. What? Two? Well, that's another doozy. You're going to raise a two-year-old with him?

I mean, I used to work with kids. I love kids. I just, I don't want kids. And then he doesn't want any more. He's had a vasectomy. It's fantastic. Like, I don't have to worry about it. Yeah, he sounds like a good option minus the geographical.

Are you interested in sort of being in a child's life in a major way, even though it's not your own? Does that interest you? Totally. I have a lot of friends with kids and I love their kids and I love being like the best friend's auntie, you know, but I don't want to be their mom. They have moms. They're good. Okay. So if you lose your job in a couple of months, say that happens, you know, I hope it doesn't happen, but say that does happen. Does that, would that make it easier for you to move to New York? Yeah. I mean, it would. It's just, I think it's not even more not even about the job or the location it's just when you're at my age it's

harder to you know make friends and build this community and I have like built this amazing friendship and a community of people here and it's taken a while to build that right and then you go to rural New York and you don't know anybody it's gonna be really hard to to make those friendships, but also he's like my best friend. So there's that. And I could always visit and fly. And I have that ability. And you can't just keep it long distance for the time being? We are. Yeah. We're making plans. We're seeing each other like every other month or so. We talk every night and we've kind of built like little things that are special to us for being long distance so I could I told him I said I could do this for about a year but then that's it I'm done

what do you when you say you built little things what does that mean like what's an example of built little things yeah so like every morning I send him a picture of what I'm wearing to work that day just like every day I always send you a dick pic those are fun actually but only from Sometimes. I've never wanted them before, actually. But now I'm like, oh, I don't like them so much. I'm still waiting to meet the guy that makes me want to see a dick pic. I never thought I would be that way either, Chelsea.

Seriously. But he's, it is. Amber, you are in love. Is there a way for you to go there for like two months or three months, like an extended vacation? So you have a sort of a sense of what a long, just being there over like a week is like? I wish. The nice thing is I'm actually going to go next month to, like, see where he lives and see the neighborhood and just see what it would be like for, like, a weekend. But because of my job, I'm a program director, and they need me in the office to handle my staff.

It'd be cool if I had, like, a remote job and could kind of be bi-coastal. Well, I think that you should definitely, A, if you're okay with this for a year, great. Take a year. Take a year. Go see his neighborhood the next time you're going there and spend the weekend there. but you have to plan a time where you're going to spend a longer duration of time there in this year that you're talking about. And if you do lose your job, then that opens you up to get a job where you can be bi-coastal. So then you can have the best of both worlds. Cause is there a

situation where you would keep your house in Washington and then also kind of go back and forth if you had a bi-coastal job? I mean, that's what you mean, right? Yeah. I think I could totally manage that. Um, I have a dog, but I have a place where she could go that she loves. So like I could make it work for a couple of years if I wanted to. Yeah, I think that's what you should do. I wouldn't make any rash decisions just yet. You know what I mean? Just start spending time there.

Spend as much time there as you can so you can really get a feel for the place and see if that excites you. Like, are you going to be okay living there? Hopefully you can just be bi-coastal because I think so many long distance relationships are successful because of the distance. I know we all want to like jump into each other's arms and everyone wants to shack up, but it's also there's something to be said for missing each other, for keeping the fire burning you know for not living with somebody all the time and getting used to all their shit and

them throwing wet towels on the fucking dry bed all of that stuff you know what i mean takes kind of the romance out and start to and start to resent their dick pics yeah you're gonna start to resent his dick pics um but um because how many how many months have you guys been seeing each other now as we speak so that's it's complicated because i've known him for a year and when we've been talking and seeing each other but we've kind of like made it official like last month sometime okay yeah so give it some more time please just be smart about it you're 40 years old you're not gonna I just want you to look at that community that you built you know in Washington like as a very sacred thing like a lot of people yearn for that

a lot of people don't have that so I really want you to make sure you like that's more valuable in my opinion in your life than anything or any love affair that is your community and that is your group so just be very respectful of that and don't toss it away lightly oh no i wouldn't yeah no i have been so lucky and blessed with my friendships and the friends that i have they've they've really stepped up like i've had surgeries and they've stepped up to help with my dog and me and just i just feel so lucky to have what i have here and that's why it's not so easy as it might be for some people to be like, oh, it's not a big deal. I'll just go. I'll just move. And it's like, I have everything here, you know? Okay. Well, just keep that in mind with everything,

right? Like put that at the top of your list. That is at the top of your list. Even your love affair is number two. Yeah. So remember that. I will. Yeah. No, that's super helpful to hear. I really appreciate it because I've been really stuck, but I will say Chelsea, you are the reason I'm not married. well thank you I appreciate that kind of feedback no like I always thought when I was like in my 20s I had to you know get married and let a man take care of me and I realize now I'm like I take care of myself I can pay my own bills and I can buy my own house and my own car and I can be the breadwinner yeah Rufus and I were just talking before you came on about taking care of ourselves

emotionally as artists, right? And I think this is also a good kind of point of interest to talk about is that women are, we're all able to take care of ourselves in every possible way, yet we're always looking for someone to lean on for whether it's financially or emotionally or spiritually, like we want someone who knows more than we do or that we can go to when we have the capabilities within us to take care of ourselves in every way. So I think that's a great reminder. And I think a lot of women who are listening today are going to respond to that and think about, are they taking care of themselves? Have they built the life that they want for themselves? Because we all have the ability to do that. It's about going to a place that you love, building your community, building

your friendships. That does take time. It doesn't happen instantly, not for everyone anyway. And certainly I'm sure not for you, right? Did it happen right away or did it take time? I definitely like took time where I realized like oh I I can buy a house I can I can do it on my own and I've been on my own since I was like 16 so it took a while to like figure out that I didn't need a man to like rescue me that I could just rescue myself and I could do it all and it would be fine and it's been great I love my life like I said you know and I don't need someone to pay my bills because I can pay them. I can do it all and I don't need anybody else, but it'd be nice to have someone by my side. I don't need anybody. It's just like having that best friend that's

just walking alongside you in life. Absolutely. And they can walk alongside you across the country. It's not like you're across the world for the time being anyway. So, right. Just picture each other walking you picture him and you walking towards each other at a very slow pace we love it yeah okay well that sounds like you've got a plan you're gonna wait a little bit you're gonna wait a year figure it out spend some more time there and we're in agreement we're all in accord okay hey yes okay great love it thanks for calling in thank you everyone have a good day bye well she was probably the most sensible person that we've had call in for advice ever yes and fyi i want someone to pay my bills i know i'm at the point where i would also like that too

rufus let's fucking be honest i've been paying my bills and a lot of other people's bills for a really fucking long time and i would like to co-mingle funds with another very wealthy person yeah yeah well our next caller is katie katie is 35 she says you're chelsea i know i'm not the only one in this situation, but it sure feels that way sometimes. I have one sibling, my twin brother, who's married, and they've blessed me with a nephew and a little niece. So that relationship factors into my question because it's just my brother and I. I haven't spoken to my mom or dad. He's more just collateral damage since I can't get to him without her being a part of it since November 2021. My relationship with my mom has been complicated for a long time, but the final

straw was how she interfered with my relationship with the love of my life and interracial relationship she never fully accepted we've since split for other reasons but it doesn't change how she acted yeah after giving her too many chances i finally cut contact and honestly my life has been better for it here's the problem she just turned 70 and i know time isn't infinite i feel at peace with staying no contact but the idea of getting that call one day where it's too late makes me wonder will i regret not trying am i just grieving the mother i wish i had or should i make some sort of move before it's too late? Or is this just one of those painful realities you have to sit with? Would love to hear your take, Katie. Hi, this is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest

today. First of all, I find that kind of behavior, like any sort of racist, misogynist kind of anything that falls under that umbrella to be kind of unforgivable. You can learn and make mistakes and come back and that's fine. But if that's just the way you're going to be and that's your attitude. So I think that what you could do to just get your feelings down on paper is to write like now that you're not in the relationship to let her know, does she know that you're not in the relationship anymore? Yeah, she did. My brother let them know, but a little bit of a plot twist. We have gotten back together. So it's a little bit still the issue. Oh, okay. Great. Yeah. Which is great for me. Yeah. I mean, I'm so happy and my brother and his family are really

supportive of us and so you know I'm just I don't know I just feel like I'm in this weird I was going along fine and then all of a sudden it was like I just when her she turned 70 I was just like oh my god I had this weird pressure like I need to do something I don't know but I'm so curious what you think about if it's okay to just stay I mean if I had it my way I would just continue the way I've been continuing it's been really good for me to have no contact but am I missing an opportunity for growth here? I think you have an opportunity to write down how that made you feel and to write down kind of like, now that you're looking back at the situation, regardless that you got back together, that's great. Good for you. I'm glad you guys

worked it out. But just upon reflection, now that you've had time, how long has it been since you said November 2021, right? So that's been enough years to have a reflection. I'm sure she's had some thoughts about it too. So I think it'd be nice to write a letter, like send her an email or a written letter, however you see fit, just expressing how that made you feel, how your own mother could turn against you based on the color of someone's skin. Not in a vitriolic way, but just in a confounded way. Like, you are my mother. You were supposed to love me unconditionally for the rest of my life and support me and guide me. And to find out that my mother had these feelings about someone makes me question everything I was raised with. You know, this makes me question the

kind of person I am. I believed in you. I believed in you and dad. And the fact that this issue in this day and age is keeping you from me, however you want to frame it, but use that as a kind of measuring stick to really just get all of your thoughts out so that they're not weighing on you so much and put it over to her. Send her an email with no expectations. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head as far as my feelings about, yeah, like I have mommy issues, but like, as an adult, I feel like it's very, it was so jarring when that all happened. And yeah. And also to maybe to posit a question, like, I would also love to understand how you can, do you still feel this way? Do you really feel differently about your daughter? Like,

help me understand what, how you were raised and what you were made to believe so that I can gain a better understanding of where you are right now. Throw her some questions that she can actually have to answer for herself. And then she's really going to have to contemplate, how do I explain feeling this way? Okay, I love that advice. It seems so on the nose to like write a letter. And that's usually how you know, I but that makes a lot of sense. And I think it would get I think there's some leftover feelings that have come to the surface. And I really like that idea of just writing it down. I don't even need to send it to her. But at least having yeah you know putting it on paper i really like that idea put it on paper and if you do send it

to her then and then and you never hear back from her then that's your answer and if you do and you never know you never know when people in their old age what kind of like realizations they come to and and places that they go to you might be surprised but don't expect anything just just try to exhaust what's inside of you with relation to losing your mom in the way that you have because it's kind of unforgivable you know like that is really hurtful yeah I would just say that um and this is more for way down the line uh from now um you're obviously a young young person at least compared to me so there's you've got some time on your hands which is great but um but Rufus is 107 by the way yeah and uh I'm a dead composer um so anyways but I

I have a lot of friends who are—and I'm 51, to admit it, but I have friends who are older now in my age and who are still—who have not spoken to their parents in many, many years. And there's a distinct difference between those who eventually—and this is not—they never got in touch with their parents again. It was over if that happened. And I don't believe you have to even see your parents if you have problems with them. but you kind of have to forgive them at some point in your heart you know however you can you know i i just see a lot of older people who like never really who kind of held on to this resentment towards their their parent that abused them and it was like it really it it i i would just be mindful of that down the line and when i say forgive i mean it's not even like you know

however you can or just let them free or something from tormenting you because uh if it goes on any further. I hope it's settled sooner than that, but just way down the line. You have to let go of it at some point, I feel personally. Yeah. That's the thing they say about forgiveness as an inside job sort of thing. Yeah. And that's part of the process of healing yourself is just to exhaust those thoughts and those emotions. And even when they come up for you, even though it may feel like, oh, I can understand a dynamic where your partner doesn't understand how, or, or, or, you know, you not understanding your mother's reaction or having difficulty with it with relationships or your partner. Like I can understand that that might

be weird too, to even be like, Oh God, it's so disappointing. Or I miss my mom or whatever, however your feelings might present, but like really feel those feelings. You know, it's very valid to be, to be emotionally harmed by an event like this. It is, that's very valid. So like the healing component is just really important to like really try to always continue to heal. It's not just a one and done. It doesn't just happen in one sitting or one letter. It's a process of forgiveness and forgiveness. And every time these feelings come up, forgive her in a way where you don't have to communicate and be hanging out with her, but forgive her for her own ignorance, for the way she was raised, for whatever her parents did to her, you know?

Yeah, no, I love this advice. And it's very validating. I think just hear it, you know, sometimes I'm like, Am I being dramatic, but it feels it's like, you know, which I think is a normal response in these situations is for me to feel like I'm overreacting. But no, it's it has it has been unbelievably devastating and difficult. And then, you know, now that I'm feeling better and have healed a lot, I think, you know, I'm like, maybe I should dive back in that pool. But I Yeah, I don't think that's the right way to go about it. I love that. idea of just writing it down. And, and also Chelsea, I appreciate this is the worst thing that's ever happened in my life. I've never would have pictured this. And I, I don't have that idea of, you know, it's not just one and done is really helpful to remember that it's a process. Yes. I'm going to just get, I'm not going to just wipe it away and make it go away. Well, everyone always thinks when they're going through something like, oh, I thought I was over that. Why is this hitting me again? Why is this hitting me again? It was just a week ago. I thought for sure I'm done with this. That's the way grief happens. That's the way like emotions

work they kind of slowly drizzle out but you have to give them the proper amount of respected attention when they do come up right so yeah also just to address the emotions that you're feeling about feeling selfish or feeling like you're being too extra I think that when you're in a relationship with someone like this who's not caring for your feelings some people like this will injure you and then treat you like you're being too sensitive because you're bleeding and like you made a decision to move farther away from the source of those injuries and I think that's totally fine just remember like it's not your fault for being too sensitive that's that's the one that's the one a lot of people use is like hypersensitive sort of thing you made the

right choice for you at the time and and there might be a different choice in front of you I love that thank you yeah yeah thanks for calling in yeah thank you so much you guys Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Katie. Bye. Okay, we're going to take a break and we're going to be right back. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, Part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey this is hayes davenport and sean clements we

host the podcast hollywood handbook on the big money players network our show is extremely accessible to first-time listeners each week we talk to someone in show business aka the biz and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show we've had a lot of great guests like sarah sherman not that great actually can you help me can you help me shape this yeah how about we flip it on his head okay how about we flip the script okay what is the surprise woman who actually you think is the straight man is actually the one who's acting weird adam scott this entire time you've been expecting adam sandler to come to visit the show i i would

never let go of that i have i would never set expectations for something like that it seems like if the universe allows for something like that to happen i'm open to it i'm always going to accept you know danny mcbride fine yeah it's all this fragile masculinity exuding i could smell it walking down the hallway to be honest with you i was like is that weed nope it's fragile masculinity ben stiller no because a lot of times in out of context people don't get it or even know what a circle is. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, oh, what's a circle?

It's a state. Everyone's so dumb except for you. And fake. Right, fake and also not interested or just like, oh, I've got my life. I don't care about your life. And a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us. Oh, and by the way, Will Ferrell told us personally he loves the show and he wants to be a guest on every episode, but he's just so busy.

Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Rufus Wainwright, who has a big show coming up in L.A. on May 4th, Dream Requiem, it's called. Where is the show, Rufus? It's at Disney Hall downtown. That's such a beautiful venue. No, I'm very excited about it. Very excited.

How does one rehearse for that? Do you go in earlier that day and rehearse? There's about three days of rehearsals with the orchestra and the chorus. Not a ton of time because it's so expensive. The great thing about Disney Hall, though, with me and this project is that I had composed the piece, Dream Requiem, but it wasn't quite finished. And I went to see a concert beforehand at Disney Hall. And when I got in there, I know they have one of the most amazing organs in the world at Disney Hall. It's this insane instrument that looks great and it sounds incredible.

And I sat there looking at the stage and at the organ, and I was like, oh, my God, I have to have an organ in my piece. That sounded good. I need an organ. But so I then went back and composed the last little bit of the Requiem with that in mind. And now, you know, on May the 4th, I'm going to get to actually hear that organ play in the piece. So whatever. I just feel very fortunate. Yeah, that's gorgeous.

Beautiful. Yeah. out. Okay. Well, awesome. Well, do we have anything else, Catherine? Are we good? I mean, I do have one little quickie if you want to end with a quickie. Let's do a quickie to close out for sure. Okay. All right. Fantastic. So our last question today comes from Casey. Casey says, Dear Chelsea, I'm 28 and in a new relationship with a guy for three months. Recently, my boyfriend read my private journal without my permission. In my journal, I had written some things that weren't complimentary about him. I love him very much, but also sometimes I just need to vent in

my own private journal. After reading my journal, he confronted me about it, and instead of apologizing for reading it, he demanded I apologize for what I wrote, saying that what I did was much worse. Again, all I did was write personal thoughts in my private journal. I ended up apologizing because I was so caught off guard, but now I feel weird about it, and I feel like I don't have a safe space to write my personal thoughts anymore. I also feel like I can't trust that he won't read my journal again. Additionally, after this happened, he went and told his friends and other people about what I wrote, which felt really embarrassing and invasive because I also wrote about some personal things I was going through. Is this a big red flag or am

I being dramatic? Casey. No, that's a big red flag. Huge. You got to get far away from this person. Yeah. No, that's an invasion of privacy. Like that is a reason to actually end a relationship. Yeah. Yeah. You can't go through other people's private things. You just can't do that yes and i mean like to blame you for just being able to that's crazy absolutely he should first of all if you read someone's like you don't that's supposed to be a secret and then yeah and then he's a double it's like a double whammy he did that and then he wants to be mad at you about it no and then he tells his friend then he tells his friends about it which is like a triple thing yeah exactly it's unbelievable you're writing where are you supposed to express yourself if

you if it's not a safe place to write in your journal yeah no this guy's gotta go no that's a red flag break up with him as soon as you can problematic for sure yeah okay rufus thank you so much for being here today it was great talking to you and yes it's great to see you again yeah and i hope i see you in person sometime soon yes yes we'll try try to come on may the 4th if you're if you're around but um and jane's gonna be amazing she's yeah may the 4th i would be there i would come if i'm in in la i have to look at my calendar and see if i'm in town on may in may okay okay okay bye bye do do do do do do drum roll Catherine please um Chelsea Handler abroad abroad is my European tour

so I'm coming to obviously find a husband abroad I need to get the hell out of this fucking country and it's not as easy as you think so I'm coming to Reykjavik I'm coming to Dublin I'm coming to the UK. I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June. I'm coming to Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow, New Zurich, Vienna. I've never, ever been to Vienna. Berlin, Barcelona, and Lisbon. I'm coming.

Abroad is abroad. That sounds like fun. I'm going to go see you abroad. I know. I want to go see me abroad. And there I'll be. There I'll be. Excellent.

Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. I survived nine months in captivity, And I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. Abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B.

I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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