Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Folk Magic with Wendi McLendon-Covey

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

Wendi McLendon-Covey joins Chelsea to chat about her love of New Orleans, why she’s obsessed with costar David Alan Grier, and the best thing about being childfree by choice. Then: A childfree woman struggles when her partner’s teenage kid moves in with them. A mom wonders if her daughter is asexual.  And a 20-something is put in an awkward position when her neighbor sleeps with her best friend.   * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

And will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.

Bell. Connection is everything. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Hey, Chelsea. Well, we have a great guest today. Everyone knows her from Reno 911, Bridesmaids, and now St. Dennis Medical.

And Wendy McClendon-Covey is joining us now. Hello, Wendy. Hi, baby. Hi, hi, hi, Wendy McClendon-Covey. Good morning. Good morning to you. Was that your brother helping you set up your podcast? That was my husband.

My brother-husband. My brother-husband. Hi, it's so nice to see you. It's good to see you. I tried to see you the night we were at the Critics' Choice Awards together. I saw you, but I didn't see you. Good job with that, P.S. Oh, thank you.

Thank you so much. That was amazing because you had the unenviable position of having to make everybody happy after the city had burned to the ground and that show had been rescheduled three times and you nailed it. You were fantastic. Thank you. Thank you so much, Wendy. I appreciate that.

Wendy and I share a gynecologist and his name is David Alan Greer. So I first want to just talk about your experience working with him because I have never, ever been able, nor will I ever, Wendy, be able to take that man seriously. As an actor, as a person, as a skier, I tried to ski with him once. I don't remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He tried to tell me he could ski. And this was before I became the skier that I am today, before I I'm a pretty decent and competent skier now. Yeah, you are. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

And I worked hard to get there, you know, like I took I took it very seriously, like almost like a college degree. But David, like the idiot that he is and will always remain, tried to convince me that he's the one. Actually, no, I have to give him a little bit of credit. he's the one who got me back into skiing because he took me skiing on the west coast i don't remember if we were in tahoe or we were in maybe aspen comedy festival it was something where there was like a comedy festival related so it must have been aspen and he was like oh let's go skiing i said i don't have any ski clothes it was like springish and he said you don't need any you just need jeans and like you know a vest and i'm like since when because i grew up in new jersey so

i skied on the east coast right and so he convinced me to go skiing we went skiing we went out for about an hour and a half until he started complaining he was too cold in the springtime he had the he was the one who dragged me out there and then started complaining and and finally I told him to get off the mountain I was having a really good time on my own you know I was like leave me alone and and that was when I discovered that skiing could be actually pleasurable when when other people weren't with you and in warmer weather when you didn't have to put on all that gear and so he kind of was he was kind of the person that reintroduced me to adult skiing so i do want to give him that shout out but i i've had so many personal experiences with him as a

friend that i don't want to give him any credit beyond that okay you're blowing my mind that he skis at all well he doesn't and because he doesn't like to leave the house the david i know now again i've only known him for a year or two you've known him for a lot longer but that he would willingly go and ski or do something physical, that's amazing to me. Or do something fun. Yes. I don't know what's happened to him over the past couple of years because I haven't stayed in touch with him. I think I haven't hung out with him probably in like 10 years. But whenever I see him, I just think of that day on the mountain. I just think of, I mean, he is one of our funniest people. He is. He really is. Yeah. And tell me about what it's

like working with him well okay so you you and I are roughly the same age so we both watched in living color uh-huh right yeah and that was a pretty mind-blowing show yes at the time absolutely and he was so damn funny on that and in anything he does so when I heard that he was doing this show Saint Dennis Medical I couldn't say yes fast enough and when I'm on set I feel like I just catch myself staring at him like, wow, you're really right there. And we know each other and you know who I am. And this is this is crazy to me that this is where my life is. So when we're in a scene together, I basically turn into an audience member. OK, you forget to say my line. So you respect him. Oh, yes. Yeah. That's the difference between you and me. I don't have any

respect for him. Actually, we should book him on this podcast because I would like to tell him to his face yeah tell him i think he needs to hear it but i like that you do respect him because he is very entertaining and obviously the show is a huge hit congrats on all the nominations you guys receive well the critics choice nomination for sure and congrats on season two oh thank you thank you thank you also congrats on being one of the funniest women out there because you make me fucking laugh what i mean a lot of you you laugh that is yeah you do you make you make everybody laugh you're ridiculous you and carrie kenny silver on reno 9-1-1 is just too fucking funny these two are ridiculous together well the whole cast of reno 9-1-1 deserves an award every

year just forever having done that show well you you had some fun with us didn't you i did i did a guest star on that show years and years ago i was so i was yes it was at which was also a ridiculous experience. It was so fun to be a part of that show because you guys improv so much and everyone was always just about to break and always laughing in the middle of scenes. And that's really what I those are the only kinds of productions I like to be involved in is when people are breaking on camera. Well, we were lucky to get you and you were so cool about it because I remember, you know, Reno was just like a fly by the seat of our pants kind of show like permits never heard of her you know we never got permits for anything we we it was just guerrilla

shooting so we needed cars for some reason we needed cars to drive by and it wasn't safe but you said oh you can use mine i'm turning it in tomorrow it doesn't matter you can thrash it it was like that's a good girl right there she she will go there yes of course and she's hilarious So yeah. All in the name of comedy, right, Wendy? That's right. That's right. So tell me about your life. What's happening? What's happening in your personal life? So this is your husband brother that set up your podcast for you. Yes. And right now we're in New Orleans. Oh, what are you doing there? We have the tiniest condo in the French Quarter and we come out here as often as we can. I love this city. I cannot tell you what kind of hold it has on me. Wow. But we hadn't been

able to get out here since right around New Year's. So we needed to come out and just check on things, do some housekeeping. And of course, we're going to have fun and try to hear some music and stuff. But we've missed Mardi Gras this year. We're missing Jazz Fest. We missed French Quarter Fest. But it doesn't matter. I just love it here. I feel like there's always a festival happening in the French Quarter. Always. And when we got here, there were three parades. Three parades. We couldn't, our cab couldn't even get us to our house. They had to drop us off at the park and we just walked our luggage through the, through the, through the quarter. Yeah, pretty much. You should have immersed yourself in the parade until you got

to your house. I know. I should have just, you know, disrobed. Do you ever run into Amy Schumer down there? Cause I was recently, when I was did a show down there, I went to her house in the French Quarter? I heard that she has a house and no, I've never run into her. Oh, you two need to connect. You two would really get on like a house on fire. Really? Yeah. I'm going to put you on a text with her. Do you know if she has a big house? Because like I said, we've got a tiny little place because I don't want to I don't want to worry about a big house. No, no, no, no. It's not crazy or anything like that. It's normal. It's normal. So she does have a pool in the backyard, but it's not wow yeah but it's not a crazy house Amy's not crazy like that she's like okay you know

she's pretty normal now you have a house in Spain I do that is not a normal oh my god no and I'm not going to pretend that it is you know what I mean but do you you must go there a lot I do go there I go there in the summer I we rent out that house a lot because you know it is so ridiculous so in order to justify it I have to rent it out but I do go there with it I go there like I'll be there in June for a week. And hopefully I'll spend like the month of September or October, whatever my schedule allows. I share that house with a lot of my friends and family. And it is the biggest, it's one of the best gifts I've ever given myself is the house in Mallorca. Catherine's been there. It's so gorgeous. Amazing.

It's kind of like a slice of, I remember looking at this house and, you know, places speak to you as you're talking about New Orleans, right? Which is such a magical place. Everyone, And if you haven't been to New Orleans, once you go, you understand there's just something there that is not available anywhere else in any other city in the United States. And I'm not sure about the world. I mean, you know, maybe there's parts of Paris that feel like the French Quarter or something, but which was why it was probably called the fucking French Quarter. But I just piece that together as I was saying it. I'm like, oh, but, you know, when you find something and you're like, whoa, this is like my childhood. Like it came it came from my child, my childhood memories evoked all of these happy feelings, like the view of the water in the setting that it is.

And just the boats that like the sailboats parked in the bay reminded me so much of my childhood growing up on Martha's Vineyard and seeing. It's not the same exact view, obviously, but it's it's a very similar view. And I remember we would always sit outside on our deck and my dad would, every time we would be outside, he'd be, look at this view, look at this view. So I've had that imprinted in my brain. And when I found my house in Majorca, it was dilapidated. It was run down. I had to climb over some balustrade and banister to get up there with a couple of friends. And I remember turning around once we got in, once we broke in and turned around and looked at the view.

I said, look at this view. I cannot believe this house is abandoned. Like, I'm going to get it. And so that's how I feel every time I'm there. Like, look at this view. And I could get lost in that view and sit in front of that water for days and not leave the house and be perfectly happy as long as somebody's making me a frozen mango daiquiri. That's really magical. There it is.

You know, the older you get, the less it takes to make you happy. And sometimes it's just a nice view and a good drink. Yeah, yeah. So wait, your house was abandoned? You just found it. You didn't go through a realtor or anything. You just were like, what's this? It said for sale in Spanish on it, but like it was like the roofs had caved in.

Like the pictures were still on the walls. Like you could go up halfway up the staircase, but you couldn't go all the way up to the top. So it needed just to be re-fortified. There's not a lot of leeway they give you in those small towns. You have to kind of stick to the plan and just like re-fortify it. You know what I mean? even the banisters outside on the terrace, they have to be in like, you know, Mallorcan code. And so that's even more beautiful, I think, so that you can't really, you know, you can obviously

design it however you want in the interior, but what you do on the outside has to have, the edifice has to match the area. But yes, best gift I ever bought myself. Amazing. And you earned that. Thank you. You earned that. You worked your ass off. So yes, you absolutely deserve to have a beautiful vacation home. Well, you deserve the same. You absolutely deserve the same.

You don't have any children, Wendy, right? Nope. Nope. Nope. And how do you feel about that decision? Every day I pat myself on the back for sticking to my guns. Fucking high five. High fucking five right there. I mean, the best thing that people never tell you about making the choice to never have children,

which nobody ever told me that was a choice either. Did anyone ever tell you it was a choice or did you just inherently know or? I just always knew I didn't want them. Yes. But I never said that because it seemed like something that I was gonna have to do regardless.

But I mean, even when, when I remember being little, being presented with a baby doll and being like, oh, no. That's so much work. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't want to fuss with this thing.

I got stuff to do. I've got to go make mud pies. And, you know, I never wanted them, but I liked Barbies. I liked, you know, she's a career woman. Me too. I like she's a career woman. Exactly. I had never contemplated this, though.

But you're absolutely right. That's how I felt about like playing mommy and baby and with little babies. Like I liked Cabbage Patch Kids because they seemed like they had a little personality. Yes. You know what I mean? Like they could change their own diaper, probably. Yeah. And they were like, you could get one with a dimple and green eyes and brown hair.

like you could kind of design them or they, you know, like pick out the ones you sort of had freckles, but they seemed like they had a little spunk. They weren't babies. You know, I remember getting a preemie cabbage patch. I'm like, I don't want this. I want the one with the long brown hair, the green eyes and the dimple. That's what I was into. They, they're too, they're too young. You gotta be fussing with them all the time. Every two hours you got to feed them. No, thank you. Want nothing to do with that. The other thing though, is what we need to tell people who are listening to this, as we have so many female listeners, and I'm sure many of them are on, you know, thinking and deliberating about whether or not they want to be a mother.

When you choose not to, because people go, am I going to regret this decision? I don't know anyone that hasn't had a child that sits around and goes, I wish I had one. Anyone that is child-free goes, thank God I got through that area of time, that period of time where I could have been vulnerable to possibly dislodging a child. I did not fall for fall prey to that. And I made it through the tunnel that where I am no longer able or viable to have one like I feel like I got through that test. Yep. Yep. And then I for a while I looked at like Diane Keaton, who adopted at 50. And I think, well, is that an option? No, it is. No, no, It isn't. And I love kids. And I love that people want to have kids. I don't judge that. But boy,

do I feel judged when I tell people, yeah, that was never in the plan. Never wanted them. I've been told, you know, oh, well, that's really selfish. It's really selfish of you not to have them. And it's like, I don't think it is. I think it's selfish to have them because you think you're supposed to and then resent them and turn them into an unfunny comedy routine that a lot of people do. I think that's repugnant, but whatever. I think it's selfish to bring a child into this world where you're not 150% down with the idea of what's going to happen. If there's any doubt at all, then it's not for you. You have to yearn for something. The way that we would yearn for our careers, the way that we yearn to be creative. You have to have that longing and that yearning

with regard to children. And if it's not there, then I think that's your answer. Yeah, exactly. And I see people going through IVF and doing all these things and it's like, well, I hope it happens for you. You clearly want it so much, but I've never wanted it. And Greg and I, we've been married 29 years and we would check in with each other. You good? You don't want any? Great. And we've always been on the same page with it.

Wow, 29 years. That's great. And that's why you're still together probably because you never had a baby. I think so too. I think so too. What are you going to do for your 30th anniversary? Do you want to go to my house in Mallorca? I'm offering it up for you to celebrate your 30th anniversary, wedding anniversary.

Oh my God. That's amazing. That's very sweet. I'll obviously pepper in some other couples who are celebrating big milestones so it can turn into a big swingers party. because I can't ever leave well enough alone. That would be amazing. And we'll look at the view.

Give us some serious nuggets of wisdoms or not so serious of why you have a successful marriage for 30 years. Like what is the secret? What's your secret? Well, my secret, my quote unquote secret is before I say anything critical of him, I look at myself and find out that I'm not so delightful either. So I try not to criticize him

before I see what I'm doing wrong. And I'm usually doing something terrible. I'm a pain in the ass. He's very easy. How are you a pain in the ass? Well, you know, listen, I'm an actor. I'm very needy. I'm moody. I'm a perfectionist. And I have a short temper. Whereas Greg is nothing but pure sweetness, is very slow to anger, and is just the most supportive person in the world. So if there's anything wrong in our marriage, it's usually my fault. And I'm willing to admit that. I can admit it. And I think admitting it is one thing. And also when he does something sweet, I tell the whole wide world. So I brag on him a lot because he is really like, And I couldn't do anything that I do if I didn't have that man. He's the only one who ever

encouraged me to go into acting. The rest of my family and friends were just like, oh, this is embarrassing. Don't do that. Well, he was right, apparently. It worked out. He was right. But like, he's the one who wakes me up in the morning. He gets up before me. He fixes my breakfast every morning and sends me off to work. What else can I ask for? It sounds like you chose very well for your personality. He's just my everything. I was just born to love that man.

I love that. I love to hear that. That's so, it is very heartwarming to hear. Did you make bad choices before you met your husband? Like, did you have a pattern of dating other types of men? Yeah. I did. I did. But I learned my lessons quickly. Like if I do something terrible once, I will not do it again. So like if I date a drug addict once, that's going to be the only one, you know,

I'm done. I see the signs. We're not going to go through this again. You can't change people. That's not my job. I got other things to do. So there's that. And also like my parents and I love them and they're still together. They are having their 60th wedding anniversary next week. But they fought constantly. They got married very young and they fought constantly. For some people, when they grow up in that, they seek that out without realizing it because it feels normal. That never felt normal and I won't do it. I'm not going to live in a house where there's constant chaos and arguing. So I knew that's not something that I was going to put up with. yeah a lot of people who call in have a lot of trouble breaking that like i i'm a big proponent of what you're saying make your first time the last time you know like i don't want to learn same lessons twice i'm busy i want to like move on and learn another lesson i want to you know i want to have new experiences but a lot of our people are like how you know like they have such

trouble letting go of toxic relationships and at our age it's so easy to give the advice of like this is just not for you. Like the sooner you learn these lessons, the happier and freer you become as a person. And then the things that you want and think that you need come to you without so much effort being put out. No, you're 100% right. And if you will just do that kind of mental house cleaning, then you make space for all that good stuff to come in. But if you don't clean house, you're always blocking your blessings, which I know is a very woo-woo-woo thing to say. No, no, no. You're in the perfect place to say that. No, that's okay. I'm woo-woo too. I mean, you can't be, you can't move to California, live here for 30 years and not just fucking

capitulate. You know what I mean? I'm like, okay. I mean, I'm like two, I'm two Easter's away from celebrating that, you know? I mean, and that's, and that's not woo-woo. That's actually woo-woo to me now is that's what I consider woo-woo is like real religion. I'm like, okay, get away from me with that but uh what do you guys have to talk about after 30 years together out of curiosity is that ever oh god just anything just so natural that you did it doesn't even it's not an issue because i have trouble keeping a conversation with somebody i've been dating for 10 months yeah i think the way to get around that though is that silence is okay sometimes too yeah you don't always have to be entertaining no you can just sit there it's fine and then

Things do pop up that you've never, you know, stories you've never told before. I don't know. It's just, it does seem like you would run out of things to talk about, but there are always things. And I don't know how to explain it, but it never gets boring. Back to St. Dennis Medical. Do you guys do a lot of improv on that show? We do.

We do. Our showrunner, Eric Ledging, he was one of the creators of Superstore and American Auto and stuff like that. he really does encourage us to get it done the scripted way and then we can improvise if there's just something we have to do and they usually leave it in they've been pretty generous with us and i have to say working on that show is such a pleasure because our showrunners love their families and want to go home at night so if they don't you know for the listeners at home if your showrunner doesn't necessarily want to go home you don't get to go home either

so it's great because we're usually done by six o'clock every night oh what a treat that is ideal yeah in this business that is very unusual I got the script for that show like four hours after the Goldbergs was canceled so I'm lucky it came my way because it was in a during a year where they just weren't making a lot of pilots at all I think they made four across network television I, yes. And this one got picked up. I remember that year. I remember when they, it was like out of, I mean, they used to make like 25 pilots a year and then pick up, I don't know, 10. And then all of a sudden there was one year where they made four fucking pilots and people were panicking about the state of the industry. So you were on the Goldbergs for 10 years, was it? Yeah. 10 years.

And you played a mother and I read that you didn't want to play a mother again. Isn't it funny even playing a mother's exhausting. Well, I mean, I had, look, I play, I got to relive the eighties again. So I've been in the eighties for 20 years. All right. Which I've had enough. All right. I get it. The eighties were fun. I loved playing a mom. And now I understand like kind of what my mom went through at that time, but I got that out of my system playing, you know, the overbearing mama and I loved it but I didn't want to do it again not for a while anyway right and so when I read this you know the character of Joyce the administrator the hospital administrator she's such an oddball that I found her irresistible and was like yes I want to do this yeah I mean

the role is so perfect for you and you're so perfect in it thank you absolutely I love you I think you're just so fucking funny. I mean, so talented. Thank you, Chelsea. Thank you. Okay, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Wendy McClendon Covey and her brother husband. We'll be right back. The Jonas Brothers are running it back.

We live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brothers hits that have defined a generation. One incredible celebration. One unforgettable night. See the Jonas Brothers live at RBC Amphitheater, September 28th. Get tickets now at Ticketmaster.ca. Jonas Brothers, the burning up tour all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters,

pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right

place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here.

It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Wendy McClendon-Covey. Okay, Wendy, we're going to take some callers, okay? We're going to give out advice here. So, Katherine, what do we have today? Well, our first email comes from Andrea. The subject is 26-year-old virgin.

Dear Chelsea, my daughter just came to visit me for a couple of weeks. My daughter is beautiful, thoughtful, and smart. She graduated college, went to cooking school, and is now working successfully as a chef. Whenever I ask, the subject of dating is always changed to another subject or answered with a one-word answer. She never has a boyfriend and never has and never really even kissed someone, and I'm just at a loss as to why. I asked her if she was asexual, and she said no.

She's only getting older, and I don't want her to be alone and never see what joy being in a relationship will bring, let alone sex. I don't know what to do or say. Please help. Coming from her loving mom who only wants the best for her, Andrea. Is she gay? Is your daughter a lesbian? And do you have feelings about her being a lesbian that are preventing her from being

truthful to you about being a lesbian? Asexual isn't the only question to be asking, though. No, totally. Totally. You know what I mean? Like if she's asking if she's asexual, she's asked if she's gay. She didn't mention that part. And she keeps mentioning a man, not a person. Right. Right. So maybe she's a lesbian. So maybe you should think about that. Or I don't know. Do you know a lot of asexual people, Wendy? I do know a couple. I know a couple. I know a couple. And look, she's 26. She could be just very picky. She could be gay. That was my first thought as well. Or she might have a secret life that you don't know

anything about. Sounds like that's, or she could be a totally late bloomer. You know, some people don't really come into their own until they're in their thirties, like sexually. First of all, you don't even come into your own sexually until you're like forties and fifties for a lot of women. So that could be something too, but definitely you pushing her is not going to put her in a relationship that, that has no impact whatsoever on anyone. I would leave the situation alone for as long as possible until she comes to you with some information that that allows you to ask further questions but i would also put it out there that if she is a lesbian if she is asexual if she does have some secret life that she doesn't want you to know about that you are okay with that

because you have to be yeah yeah i mean and some people i think dating now is so intimidating it's weird yeah it's like we went full tilt on the dating apps and everyone went bonkers and now there's like a contraction. Like people are so disgusted by dating apps and by what's available out there that people are like, I'd rather be alone. So I think we're in that phase of things. And plus our younger generations are not as sexually active as we were because there's so much porn and everything. So they actually don't need to get it, you know? So there's a, there's this possibility that she's asexual. Yeah. Also just leave her alone. Like there's nothing that's sexy about talking to your mother about sex. So that's not going to probe her. I mean,

that's not going to push her. Sorry to say probe. That's not going to push her into anything. So back off, mom. Back off. Our first caller today is Beth. She is 30. Dear Chelsea, I've been with my partner for almost seven years. I'm 30 and he's 52. I am biologically child-free. However, last summer, my partner's teenage son moved in with us full-time from the West Coast to the Southeast because he was expelled from his school and was having various behavioral challenges. The transition was extremely challenging for me personally as someone who has no desire to have kids, so much so that I got my tubes removed earlier this year. But I also did it for our relationship as my partner and I have different

ideas of parenting at times. I do think his son is a good person at heart, but his communication is regularly disrespectful and loud. He doesn't ever take accountability, which is super triggering for me. My partner and I have been in couples therapy for co-parenting, which has been helpful for the relationship, but I still find myself frustrated with his son's behavior. I absolutely loved your book and how you wrote about your relationship with Poopsie, Whoopsie, and Oopsie. It really touched me and I admire how you built a relationship with them and became such an influence in their life. So my question is this, when I'm so frustrated with my partner's son's behavior, how do I get over my frustration and irritability? What do you think I can or should

do to build a stronger relationship with him. I've been in his life since he was seven. We've gone on vacations together. We play video games sometimes. I drive him places, do his laundry occasionally, cook family dinner for the three of us nightly, among other things. But I'm still struggling with the relationship dynamic I have with his son. Please help me be a better stepmom. I'd like to have what you're having. Love you so much, Beth. Hi, Beth. Hi, Chelsea. Hi, this is wendy mcclendon covey our special guest today hi hi beth yeah nice to meet you that's nice that you're i mean first of all it's very nice that you're trying so hard and that you want to try hard you know and that is a difficult situation how old is he again he is 15 and okay it was it

was hard in the the beginning when he first came i was kind of on the fence because it was so hard because I'm the oldest of seven kids. So that was also, that's like a, just a component of life. Like you've done your mothering. Yeah. It's, it's was hard. It still kind of is, but now I'm more in the spirit of like, okay, I'm trying to give this a try and just fully embrace it. And when I get so irritable and frustrated, like this has kind of also been a hard week. It makes me, I don't want to say not want to try but it makes me feel just overwhelmed and is he how like what level of disrespect does he exhibit to you towards you so he'll get i mean he's a teenager so i know teenagers have

attitudes but he'll have an attitude or he'll talk back he also doesn't know when enough is enough or like when to stop so like for example this weekend we went to the beach and you know horsing around we had fun and then it's like okay we're done but all throughout the rest of the day he kept antagonizing and just hitting me and then i was laying in bed saturday night with my partner and he comes in and like hits me on the head like thinking he's joking and i'm like i'm trying to go to sleep enough so it's just also just like not knowing when enough is enough uh-huh and i'm also someone that stays very calm i don't like yelling whereas my partner you know they'll get in arguments and yell and so when i say something to him or point out you know hey your dad is trying

to tell you xyz he then will shut down or he'll become nasty back towards me sounds like a typical teenager yeah and sometimes i see a lot of myself in him like when i was a teenager i was also very like headstrong so i relate to him on some levels we're also both Libras if that like means anything to you but I'm a Libra as well I get it oh yeah let's go great because I I don't get it I don't know what that means just balance and yeah wanting balance and stuff but right right yeah it's just I think it's been hard also because I don't want kids for a very very you know long list of reasons so yeah I'm just not sure what to do in terms of how to not be so triggered and frustrated because i'm also in

my own recovery for mental health so personal responsibility and accountability to me means a lot and it's very very frustrating to try to build awareness around him of like how to take accountability like he's getting he gets in arguments with teachers a lot and it's always the other person's fault so i think that's that's hard for me too yeah that's annoying well and but And also, again, he's 15 years old, so his brain isn't fully formed yet, right? And it's not going to be, unfortunately, for another 10 years because he's a man. So that's like, what, 25, 26 was when their brain's fully formed? Yeah, yeah.

Is that right? Yep. Or is it later? I want to say like 25 to 28 is when your frontal lobe is done cooking. What I've learned when I took my parenting classes for Poopsie, Woopsie, and Oopsie, what I've learned is when they're combative, it's different with a boy. So when they are combative, it's like you have to be in a joking mood with them. Like you can't meet their anger with anger.

Like your husband yelling at him and him yelling, like that doesn't do anything. That just keeps the cycle going. And it's like a storm in the sky that's just moving around in different areas. But when you meet their anger with like, yeah, I hear you. You sound pissed off. You must be pissed. Yeah, you sound really pissed off. not validating his feelings but but acknowledging how he feels you know what I mean not saying you're

right and saying and that your feeling is justified but like wow you do seem really pissed off you know let me give you some space or like okay well I'll be over here when you calm down you know when you want to talk about it if you want to talk about it I'm here you don't have to whatever like you just kind of throw it back at them in the moment that they're in so that you're not ignoring their feelings. And it actually makes you feel better because you're, what we tend to do, I think when we're dealing with other people's children is take things so personally and it's not personal. Like they're going through puberty. They have all these hormones raging through their bodies. Their temper is not their own. Their emotions are not their own. You know, it's a

period in their life where they're just uncontrolled. It doesn't happen as badly with every every teenager but it happens a lot and it sounds like that's what's happening with him you know and in the moments of calm is when you can kind of point things out and since you're a stepmom it's a very specific dance of being like you know you want to be like a cool person in their life that they can come to you want to like open up that avenue and be like listen I know this is frustrating but like let when you want to talk about it if you ever do want to talk about I'm here I'm always here for you you know and and and not to like impose yourself on them but to make sure and it sounds like you're doing all those things you're spending time with him you're

cooking dinners every night you're doing all of the things that put the marbles in the jar so that he knows he has an ally and someone he can rely on and like the instance of him coming in and smacking you on the head in the bedroom when you're done playing like how did you react in that moment i just turned over slowly and looked at him and i was like really like just i didn't yell at him or it was like what are you doing why did i just acknowledge maybe this isn't the time and place like it's nine o'clock at night we had fun at the beach earlier but you know and his dad has noticed the same thing like they'll roughhouse and they'll play around but then it's still the same of like he doesn't know when to stop and if

we try to i don't want to say get stern but like more serious of like okay hey it's time to stop then that triggers him and he gets upset and then it's like oh you guys are no fun or you know why do you always have a problem and it's like no it's just right just because he's embarrassed he's embarrassed to get like so how did you react when you did that when you turned over and you gave him that look did he get the message you just walked out great great but that's the that's the result you want like end of end of that you know what I mean without an argument he got the message so I think you're doing a good job with the way you're handling it by not losing your temper by being available when they need you and you know when he gets in fights with his teachers repetitively

it's not about like oh you know what what's your part in this because he's not there yet he's only 15 years old but it's just acknowledging yeah that must be really tough without laying blame on either person, him or the teacher, be sure that you're not doing that, you know, which it doesn't sound like you are, but by just, just being available, available for the good moods, for the bad moods, being around there, don't allow yourself to be a punching bag, but that doesn't warrant a fight either. You can just say, I'm sorry, I'm not interested in this right now. Like you're kind of being aggressive. That's fine. You're in a mood. I'm going to go over there or I'm going to go to my room. And then when you're ready to talk, come get me. I'm always

here that kind of attitude do you get what i'm saying yeah yeah i do that that makes sense and i think because it's it's like i want to be a support for him which i think i am but i like it sounds like you definitely are yeah i i try um and i've known him since like i said i was seven and uh you know we've had instances where he'll just come and talk to me and start telling me stuff about girls or whatever's going on in school and we've had some good conversations his like why he thinks he lies and why he thinks he does the things he does and i've noticed that if he is not being yelled at he is also more inclined to be calm which is you know the ideal well of course i mean anyone's going to be more calm when they're not being yelled at yeah

what do you think wendy well first question are they in therapy together he was in anger management classes when he lived back out on the west coast and i'm a big proponent for therapy i wish he would do it and that his dad would kind of push him to do it he thinks he doesn't need it okay well the two of them need to be in therapy together i think yeah yeah i think so too i think that's a great idea and i'm i am a little concerned that you have been adamant about how you don't want kids, but you are taking on this mother role. I don't know, that just kind of stuck out to me like, hmm, I don't know, Beth. I think at the very minimum, the least that your husband can do in exchange for you taking on this role that you did not seek out for yourself would

be to mandate that there is a you know a therapy like that that he goes to therapy with his son or that his son go alone he's the father the kid is 15 he doesn't really have a choice it doesn't matter that a 15 year old doesn't think they need therapy that's just invalid you know like and that has to be on that him and you know what i mean that has nothing to do with you it can't be coming from you it has to be coming from his father and that could be an easy requirement he wasn't living with you guys. And he was going to anger management. That's a sign that he should be continuing in the direction of therapy in some capacity for sure. Yeah. And you shouldn't be the only one doing all the inner work. You know, you're in recovery, you said. So that can be very

triggering. And I feel like that's the biggest piece of the puzzle is the two of them need to work on this together. So can you talk to your husband about that? Do you feel comfortable having that conversation yeah for sure and i think he might be open to it i hadn't thought about that before of both of them going together because like my partner we were together in therapy which we've only what we've been doing for about three months now which it's it's been helpful but he's admitted and knows he parents from a place of guilt of like dad guilt but that's that's his stuff he needs to deal with not not me yeah and and and and he should and that kid should just be going to therapy on his own anyway you know it sounds like he's been uprooted and

moved around like he needs to go to therapy you don't just go to anger management classes and then that's the end of the story you know there's got to be another transition and another phase out and it's only going to be helpful but that has to come from your husband so why don't you have that conversation with your husband and be like listen this is I'm putting a lot of effort here you know and also the self-work that you're talking about like you know letting him trick like you're doing a great job. So pat yourself on the back for that. This kid's not going to unmoor you. He's not going to, you know, you're think of yourself as a tree, you're a tree and there are leaves and there are branches that might wave around through the wind and storms,

but you are firmly planted in the ground. You've done your work, you're in recovery. And this is just another way that you can like spread your love around with, you know, via him with, with all of the components in place and that being one of the major components being therapy thank you i i do really appreciate that because i've really been trying and yeah in the start it was a debate for me an inner debate of do i stay or do i go because of just the trauma i've been through in my life you know being little seven and just mothering and parenting is just i like my time being my time i like having my freedom and i i mean i still kind of have that it was a it was a real adjustment in the beginning last fall.

I bet. I bet. I think one way to get a little bit of time back is he's 15. He can do his own laundry. Let's get that off your plate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't need to be cleaning, cleaning semen out of socks. That's that's below your pay grade. Okay. Beth, will you check in with us and let us know how it goes? Yes, definitely. Thank you. I just want to say thank you so much. And Chelsea, I look up to you so much and value your authenticity.

Like, I just I really am so grateful for this opportunity. And I just I yeah, I just you're an inspiration to me. So thank you. Oh, I love it. Thank you so much. Thank you. You as well. All right.

Well, let's take a quick break and we can come back with our caller. OK, we'll take a quick break. We'll be right back. Please tag me for the special because I get so many tags about my books, but I'm not getting as many about my special and my special is the newest thing out. So I want to make sure all my ardent fans are watching it and tagging me and I'll repost you and yes it's called the feeling behind every night spent making the kids lunches there's a lot of suspense will they finally eat the veggies will the pesto survive the first bite will the

lunchbox come home empty half full or come home at all and will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers get bell pure fiber internet with crave netflix and disney plus from 94 a month price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook on the Big Money Players Network. Our show is extremely accessible to first-time listeners. Each week, we talk to someone in show business, a.k.a. the biz, and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show we've had a lot of great guests like sarah sherman not that great actually can you help me can can

you help me shape this yeah how about we flip it on his head right how about we flip the script okay what is the surprise woman who actually you think is the straight man is actually the one who's acting weird adam scott love this entire time you've been expecting adam sandler to come to visit the show i i would never let go of that i have i would never set expectations for something like that if the universe allows for something like that to happen i'm open to it i'm always going to accept you know danny mcbride fine yeah it's all this fragile masculinity exuding i could smell it walking down the hallway to be honest with you i was like is that weed nope it's fragile masculinity ben stiller no because a lot of times in out of context people don't get it or even know

what a circle is you know what i mean like you're like oh what's this state everyone's so dumb and fake right fake and and also not interested or just like oh i've got my life i don't care about your life and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us oh and by the way will ferrell told us personally he loves the show and he wants to be a guest on every episode but he's just so busy listen to hollywood handbook on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts and we're back with wendy mcclendon covey how mellifluous it just rolls right off it's just roll you know what yeah wendy mcclendon covey yes well our last caller today is alexandra she is 32 she says dear chelsea i am in a very awkward situation with my neighbor

Me and my neighbor became friends this past year over our dogs becoming friends. So annoying. We started going on dog walks together and hanging out occasionally, having drinks and things like that. We never had any issues until she slept with my best friend, Jack. When I found out they were texting, I told them both they shouldn't sleep with each other because it's going to make things very weird between all of us, and boy, did it. Essentially, they ended up sleeping together, both agreeing that it was a one-night stand, and after he didn't message her because it was a one-night stand, she started acting really weird. She started to take her feelings out on me on our dog walks, even though I asked not to be involved.

Two times she asked me if I wanted to go for a walk, and the walk was perfectly fine until out of nowhere she corners me and says things like, I feel like I'm just your dog walking friend, and we never hang out together on the weekends. She started to get really possessive over me to the point where i had some friends over for my birthday with my friend jack included and she got really weird because she wasn't invited i decided that i needed to tell her she can't treat me like shit like this before we go out so i replied to a text with the following i wanted to say this before we go out to walk again since you and jack slept together you've taken some of your feelings out on me and i don't want another awkward walk us being dog friends was never a problem before

you guys slept together and i don't feel like i should have to explain myself for having close friends over for a party good for you i'm cool yeah i'm cool if you are i never got a response and this was a little while ago i feel we're both actively avoiding each other chelsea what do i do our windows literally face each other alexandra well hi hi alexandra well good text by the way good text i mean i don't know you know she has to get over that i don't know that there's anything you can do other than like time will pass but it's gonna be a problem because jack is your best friend so he's going to be resurfacing right yeah it's obviously a little bit of time has passed now but we've bumped into each other and like not said a word because i'm like i'm not gonna back

down and she probably feels the same and yeah they i don't think they've spoken to each other either they probably i think they said hi in passing um but i've just been like no like you can't just goes to me like that. Yeah. I feel like it's really strange behavior, but I'm also not backing down. Well, but also who, I mean, like really who gives a shit about her and you know what I mean? And your, and your dog is like, like your dog has, can you can go for a walk without her? You know, you don't, it's not like a relationship that is built. Like you have this deep, deep friendship, like you were dog walking buddies. So until she can actually get her shit together and get over it, it was a one night stand and not take that at face value.

people say all the time they're fine with that and then they're not fine with it and it's so annoying it's like you you knew what this was so i wouldn't worry about extending an olive branch or anything you know after like a few months go by you can like if you want to drop a bottle of wine at our front door and be like are you ready to start walking our dogs again or do you need more time yeah you know what i mean like you could do something cute like that if you want to but it sounds like you don't want to and by the way who cares like yes your windows face each other but you know this is why you don't become friends with your neighbors oh my god I've definitely learned my lesson we had some new neighbors move in a couple days ago

and I was just like hello and also and yeah you're so right I don't really I've really stopped caring about being friends I think in the beginning it was just really weird because our windows literally face each other and like her front door is right there and I'll see her leave and she'll see me leave and it's just like yeah I don't care but our dogs will just be like oh my god you again and like my friend like and then I'm just like no you can't be friends anymore this friendship's over yeah and we like bumped into each other out on a dog walk and like nobody else was there it was really weird it was like six in the morning and like our dogs were like playing with each other and we just didn't say a word to each other i was just like this is so weird but yeah i don't

really want to be her friend if i'm honest with you because clearly her friendships you have to have like terms and conditions and i'm not really down for that exactly and it's annoying right wendy don't you agree like i mean it's hard when the dog children get involved i know but the only thing you can do the only sane thing to do is ignore the whole situation yeah she's an adult who made an adult decision and this does not have to fall on your shoulders she's an adult who made an adult decision and then acted like is acting like a child yeah so and you didn't do anything wrong except for warn them not to do it because of this outcome and now you're sitting here you didn't do anything to her yeah no and i even tried like before they when they were talking

about sleeping with each other i had her around and i did like the whole girl code thing and i was just like I'm gonna look after you you here and I'm gonna tell you not to do it or please not to do it because like and could try to say it a nice way like he is my best friend and it wasn't like you're not but also like it's it's just is gonna get weird and it's like oh but isn't a little bit of fun okay and I'm just like and I knew he just wanted a one night stand anyway and he made it perfectly clear and then I just had a feeling something crazy was gonna happen and then they did it anyway and I was just like look I've warned you and I tried to be like the good girlfriend and you didn't listen and now you're just being really strange so yeah I feel like you don't have to be

friends with her but just to like you know you've said to her hey we're cool and I would just act as such like you are gonna run into her when you do like hey so-and-so and like and if she's weird and she's weird that's on her like exactly you don't have to ingest that you know what I mean you be you you do your thing be put you don't have to be silent when you see you can say how are you did it or what or did you read this or i don't know whatever you guys would normally talk about or talk about something related to the dogs but like if she's acting strange then that's on her you haven't done anything yeah yeah yeah yeah and you warned her i did warned her i'm so sick you are absolved from any responsibility that's i think why i'm more mad than like

sad i just got really angry because i was just like i tried to do the right thing by you and really i really didn't need to clearly didn't need to like try and look after you so thanks okay well problem solved thank you you need to move i keep hoping she will yeah i hope she does too yeah i'm sure she will all right thanks for calling out and alexandra Thank you so much. Thank you. Nice meeting you. Bye.

Bye. This reminds me of an expression from one of my second grade teachers who used to say, a word to the wise should be sufficient. That reminded me. This story is like, don't talk to your neighbors. You can be neighborly, but don't get involved with them. Since I'm in New Orleans, I do have a folk magic. Sure.

for sketchy neighbors. What is it? And that is you focus a mirror at their house and all their bad energy gets reflected back to them. Oh. Ooh. That's nice. So, you know, depends on how bad they are,

how sketchy they really are, the, you know, whatever happens as a result. But we did that with some of our neighbors and they moved. Well, great, Wendy. Way to wait for the guests to be off of the show to tell us that. especially when they have two windows fucking facing each other well she's gonna listen to

this podcast Catherine when you email her that and tell her to put a window reflecting because it doesn't have to be a big one yeah exactly and then you know that's a great that's great I love that actually try that yeah try it yeah you know what's the worst that can happen okay Wendy thank you so much for being on the podcast today thank you for having me and when does this St. Dennis Medical season two start? Do you know? We start back at work in June, but I'm assuming the fall we will be back on NBC. So. Awesome. Yeah. And is it Peacock or is it NBC? It's NBC the first run and then the next day on Peacock. Okay. So everybody can watch St. Dennis Medical on NBC or Peacock. You can catch up on Peacock. And you can catch up on Peacock.

Watch it first and then catch up on it later. Exactly. Thank you so much for being here. Love speaking with you. All right. Have a great day in New Orleans. Thank you. Okay. Have a good one as well. Talk to you soon. Bye. Okay. My remaining dates for Vegas. There are remaining dates for this year. Summertime is coming and I will be in Vegas at the Cosmo doing my residency on July 5th. We will be the next state that I'm there. July 5th, August 30th, And then November 1st and 29th, November 1st and November 29th. I will be in Las Vegas at the Cosmo performing inside myself at the Chelsea. It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason.

Okay. Thank you. Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com.

I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land.

We need cities on a shining hill. This is Our Town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Thank you.