Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - I Am A Noise with Joan Baez

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

Joan Baez in-studio this week to discuss quaaludes, standing up for what you know is right, and digging deep to overcome childhood trauma.   Then: A Venezuelan struggles with racism in the workplace.  A job-seeker faces setbacks after taking a break to focus on her mental health.  And a fiance meets her family where they’re at - even if they don’t accept her for who she is. * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Catherine.

Oh, hello, Chelsea. Chelsea, I've got a couple of little updates for us. Okay. This is Emily who called in on our Lake Bell episode a while back. She was about to go into her last year of law school and was really intimidated about going out and trying to find fellowships, find a job. I remember, yeah. So she wrote in and said,

Hi, Chelsea. Just wanted to give you an update since my podcast episode. I'm headed into my last year of law school feeling more and more confident about interviewing, getting a job outside of Ohio, et cetera. But even more, so many of my classmates resonated with what we discussed, especially the fear of rejection. And I think it helped so many of us realize that we are really in a collective experience, and it's going to work out in the end. Also, I just went to Chelsea's tour stop in Columbus, Ohio, and it was the perfect way to start off my last year of school after the wonderful advice that you provided me last year. All the best, Emily. Awesome. Awesome. Love it, Emily. Love it. Yeah. People are moving and shaking. She's off into the world. Chelsea,

do you have some new dates for us? Oh, you know I do. You know I do. I have a lot of, we added lots of Canadian cities, Canadians. I'm coming. We added about 15 new tour dates. I'm coming to Denver again, Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Richmond, Virginia, Santa Rosa, California, Gary, Indiana, Baltimore, Verona, New York, and about seven dates in Canada. So go to ChelseaHandler.com. I am performing everywhere. I will be on tour all for the rest of the year through December. And then next year, I'm going to be touring all year.

So come and get it, you guys. It's good times and it's a very much needed reprieve from all the fucking madness that's going on in this world. So I'm here to bring joy and sunshine. Yep. Go see Chelsea and do some laughing because her show was fantastic. Oh, thanks. Okay.

Our guest has a new documentary out about her life, Joan Baez, I Am a Noise. Please welcome singer, songwriter, and social justice warrior, Joan Baez. What an absolute delight. Joan Baez, hi. Thank you. Hi, nice to meet you. So nice to meet you. I so enjoyed your documentary that I watched last night in preparation.

It's called I Am a Noise, and there's a lot to cover. There is. Fire away. So, yeah. So you started out, you grew up with two sisters, and you guys were pretty tight growing up, right? I grew up with two sisters, too, so I understand that sisterly dynamic. Middle, you were which one? Oldest, middle?

I was the youngest. Youngest, okay. Yes. And you were? Middle. Middle. Yeah. And so Mimi was younger than you?

She was four years younger than me. Yeah. And the older one was two years older, so. Okay. And so you guys grew up in— Yeah, we grew up. Yeah, which is a success in and of itself, growing up. And in the beginning of the documentary, you talk about your childhood, and you're with your older sister,

and you just kind of are discussing your different kind of takes on your childhood. You didn't have such happy memories. But while you were growing up, the way I took it and the way it was depicted in the film was that you weren't really sure what had happened during your childhood, but that something had happened that had disrupted you, some sort of trauma that you were kind of dealing with throughout your young adult life and adult life and really couldn't put your finger on it until you went to the deeper stuff, yeah. I mean, I'd had help all the way through starting at age 15 because I didn't, you know, we didn't

have the expression panic attack back then, but my life was one big panic attack to the next. And so that was a clue, but we didn't understand that, you know. So I saw good therapists and they helped me in, around and under, but never to the center. So that was my aim that I had to do. And in the film, we try to depict that as cleverly and understated way as possible. I'm not interested in giving details, it's too confusing for people. So I would say the film speaks for itself as much as it can, as much as I can. And when you say you saw a therapist at 15, that was supplied by your parents? Well, yeah.

I mean, I have to hand it to my mom. She kind of got it because back then people didn't go to psychiatrists. Right, right. Our job with the film was to try and make that section about childhood trauma not so overwhelming that that's all anybody remembers. It's the most startling parts that people refer to it, but the stuff that I learned from the film. I mean, I had no idea really what my sisters felt.

You don't say that to your sister, but they trusted Karen O'Connor, who was directing, and so they were able to speak and say how they, you know, my older sister that had basically sucked all the oxygen out of the room when I walked in, and she couldn't survive that. And Mimi wanted to be a singer and was totally, you know, confused about her place in the world. And my father was pissed off that I was making a lot of money. I mean, it was all a big jumble, but I see it in the film

in a way that I didn't see it before. And how did it make you feel to learn that that's how your sisters felt about your success and in relation to you? Well, I knew in a sense, but I never heard them really say it. So, I mean, watching the film each time I watch it, and I've watched it at a bunch of openings,

is always a gut punch here and there of stuff that I'm learning for the first time. But there's also positive stuff that I'm learning for the first time, and it is a big learning experience. Yeah, I think it's really well done because you hint at some sort of trauma, but you don't reveal that it was sexual abuse until the end of the film. But I suspected that as soon as you said something earlier in the film about the panic attacks. Well, it's interesting that you suspected it. It just means that you know something about that world because some people don't know, don't get it. Yeah.

Well, when kids are having panic attacks and they can't really put their finger on it, something's up. Something is always up. And I think it's interesting that the domino effect of a career and a big life that can have on your siblings. Like, you know, one of your sisters, your older sister, as you mentioned, had to retreat. She didn't want anything to do with it. She didn't like the, you know, she didn't want any attention on her. And your other sister tried to kind of mimic what you did and ended up with a guy that she went and created a lot of music with

but who sadly passed away much earlier than expected. And then there's also just so much activism in this film that you did. Like, it's so beautiful. I love it, and it can relate so much to your passion for activism and then your relationship with Bob Dylan, which was heartbreaking. I didn't know that that's how it ended. Well, I think it's sort of unique that I just said, And I guess he broke my heart, you know, because people don't usually say that kind of stuff.

But I just blurted out a lot of truths in the film. I figure it's supposed to be an honest legacy. I can't afford to hide stuff now. I'm in my 80s, you know. I've got nothing to lose. Family's gone. I'm not going to hurt any feelings in the immediate family. So I turned over the keys literally to that storage unit.

I had never walked in there until the film filmed me walking into my storage unit. I had no idea that my mother kept absolutely every letter, every little tape recording I'd sent. And my father, who was a camera buff by the time he was 10, kept every, you know, 8-millimeter film that he took of us and all his photographs. And it was all in that room. I mean, I knew about some of my own tapes. That I knew, but I didn't know it was that orderly. I had nothing to do with that. Somebody else had to put it in order.

You know, I said, do what you need to do. And if I had been involved with the making of the film, it would have just been a nightmare. I would have not wanted this, not wanted that, and chosen this, and I look good here. And we joke about courage, you know, to courage to be in a bombshell, to courage to deal with the Ku Klux Klan. But the real courage was letting them film us with natural light. You know, I didn't have any help from that. and I think that's important. Well, listen, if this is what 80 looks like and this is what I'm rolling into, I'm pretty psyched about it because you're adorable. Oh, thank you. You're beautiful.

You're sexy. You're all of the things that nobody equates with being in your 80s. So thank you. Well done on that front. Well done on the superficial front. Let's get to the deeper stuff. Okay. Let's talk about when you became successful on a level that you weren't anticipating. You talk in the movie about, I mean, it was obviously the time you were living in, right? That had an impact on the success of what people needed to hear. But what was the moment where everything changed? I know with Bob Dylan, you were talking about it being in London. But for you? The beginning, probably, bang, it was Newport. I mean, I'd been seeing that wonderful little club and I had a following there. And it was kind of leaking out of Cambridge and into

Boston and then to New York. But then, you know, Odetta invited me up to go to Newport. And then Bob Gibson, who was well-known at the time, book singer, invited me up on stage. And that kind of did it. I mean, it was a big—first of all, there were 13,000 people. I didn't know that many people got in one place at one time. That was very cool. And I was very, very nervous. I mean, literally, you know the expression, my knees were shaking?

Ah, yes. My knees were shaking. And I was thinking, how am I going to do this? But then I went up and did it, and it was a huge response. And, you know, as Mimi says in the film, it was an overnight thing. And the next thing I knew, I was on the cover of Time magazine. And, yeah, it was fast. It was fast.

And you try to absorb that as a 17, 18, 19-year-old. And I was determined to not become commercial. And, you know, I was a big pain in the ass because I didn't want all the stuff that people usually want. I didn't want red carpets. I didn't want limousines. I didn't want flowers on the stage. And apparently I was just as difficult as anybody else. And the whole time you're writing letters to your parents saying, you know, I'm not growing enough.

You're disappointed kind of in the path that you had taken and your success. You weren't able to maybe enjoy it as much because you were worried about your other skill sets in life and your other learnings that you felt like you were kind of missing out on. Is that accurate? Yeah, and also it was my father. And somehow it translated to me that I would go to hell, literally, if I did certain things and did them wrong. So everything was measured a little bit. Is this a good thing?

Is this a bad thing? Is it going to hurt somebody? So I know you're right. I didn't have time to really enjoy myself. And then when did you meet Bob B? Bob B. Bobby Dillon. I must have met him in 61 or 2.

And how long had you been successful and in the public eye at that point? Until 59. Okay. So a couple years. So there's a sequence in the film of you two singing together, and it is adorable. I have never seen him smile like that. I was like, whoa, these two are obviously having something. Something's happening with these two. You could see that. And at that point, was something happening, or were you just friends? I was a virgin at that point. You know, shock of all shocks. And that moved on at some point. But so what was the question about Bob? I was saying the scene in the film where you're both singing together on stage. I don't know where that was. Well, I wasn't a virgin anymore. Well, okay.

So were you guys in a romantic relationship at that point? Okay, because it seemed like, yes. And, you know, we were so young. I look at that and I just keep thinking we had our baby fat. You know, we were just kids. And so it was as fun as it looked. It was just adorable was the word you said. Yeah, pretty adorable.

Very obvious, the chemistry. And so how long did you guys stay together, you and Bob Dylan? On and off for a couple of years, I guess. I don't honestly remember how long this part of it lasted. I know he stayed with me for a while in Carmel Valley, and he wrote a lot of stuff. He wrote four-letter word and dropped it on the floor and forgot about it, and I picked it up. I said, oh, wow, this is really cool. And he would say something like, tell me what it means.

Can you tell me what it means? and I would give my best interpretation. And he'd say, yeah, that's pretty good. After I dropped dead, everybody's going to say this meant this. This is what this was about. I don't know what the fuck it's about. So, yeah, and there he was, this kid writing these amazing songs. And that was your first love, would you say?

No. No. Would you say he was a love? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, my first love was a Harvard student I was gaga about for four years. We had matching neuroses, so it went on really quite a long time. Okay. So he was your second love?

He was. Oh, is there another one in between there? Wow, you were busy between 17 and 21. Oh, I was, but if people don't recognize the name, they don't count, right? Well, yeah, I guess. And there was Kimmy also. There was Kimmy. Oh, yeah, yes, yes.

There was a young woman. Yeah, that was. And it says in the film it was just a relief. I mean, it was something new and it was something sweet, and I didn't have to get all riled up that it was a guy. Right, right. I always feel that. I'm always like just a block away from becoming a lesbian, you know, with the dynamic between men and women. You're always like, well, at least that's an option later, maybe sooner than later.

Who knows? I was going to say it could be an option now. I know, and whenever. So when you guys went to London with Bob Dylan, like that was when his fame just became a juggernaut. Yep. And that's when things you felt, I think you used, demoralized? Demoralized. He was demoralizing.

Yeah, I mean, the action was totally around Bob. And I could have jumped in there and hung on to his shirt sleeves and gone everywhere with him and been the center of attention as well. And I thought, I just didn't want to do that. So I was peripheral, and I suffered from that. And maybe it became too late to try and enter the boys club, but they were doing drugs. I didn't do this little folky addendum outside, you know, at the fringe of everybody, of the guys. And there was an actual, I mean, they were asking him directly questions about dating you, and he said, no, we're not together. She's just a friend. Right, right. Right, which is in the film. And that was...

That was devastating, but I really bring in now that the years of resentment and years of bullshit, and then I was painting his portrait. Bob was a young, maybe the photograph was, he was 21 or something. And while I was painting this, I put on this music, and I started to cry, and it was gratitude. It was just gratitude. All of the bullshit just literally fell away, and I was left with this gratitude that I was singing then, that I met him then, that his songs were then. And at the moment, there's no reason. I mean, I'll joke about him because he's nuts, but it's not internally hurt and all that angst is gone. Did he ever apologize to you?

I didn't expect him to apologize. When I look at that film, and maybe I'm just keeping myself from feeling anything, but I just see this kid. I don't know what was going on in him. I don't know if he was for some reason hurting as well. You can't tell that. Right, right. That's a fair assessment. Yeah.

I don't blame him. I mean, I'm sure I did then. Of course. And for years felt, you know, I'd been done wrong. But I don't know what he was feeling, and I never will. Right. And because you went back on tour with him later. Yeah, and that was a totally different scene. And that was crazy and fun. And I was on Quaalude then. That was my drug experience. I was the only one.

What did Quaaludes do for you? I just didn't worry about stuff so much. And for sex as well. It made it easier to get over the first number of hurdles you have to go through. I don't know. Maybe you don't have to go through them. No, I think I have some of the same issues. You talk a lot about intimacy in this documentary. You talk a lot about your not necessarily fear of it. It seems like you're kind of admittingly not so well-versed in intimacy. It's just an inability, yeah. And over time, you don't think that you've been able to address that in therapy?

Oh, sure. I have on some levels. Well, I would say I went through this deep stuff, and it was a tremendous amount of work, the bone-shattering work of remembering. and I did that for a number of years till I literally began to feel whole which comes at the end of the film yes I feel whole

and at the end of the hard work when I felt like oh this is what it must feel like to be a person it was sort of hinted at by the therapist well now you can go on and sort of start dating and I said no way no fucking way I'm

comfortable where I am I don't want to wreck my life by taking on another level of work. And I didn't see it as, oh, goody, and start dating. It was, oh, my God, I can't do that. And that was a decision I made, and I've been very happy with it. And do you directly link that lack of intimacy to your childhood? I would say to that, I would call it trauma. I mean, we're molded by our childhoods. And even though I had repressed mine for half a century, I was being molded by it anyway. So all of that I did. All the sad songs I sang for three years without, I think there was nothing happy in there

at all. I didn't know why, and people would ask me why. It suited me. I had no uncertainty ever about the voice. I had inhibitions, insecurities, but never about the sound of the gift that I had. And because I consider it a gift, I never claimed it or felt proud of it. I mean, proud, yes, Because the work I did in my job was maintenance and delivery all the way through, you know. And I could talk about it from the outside like, whoa, what a voice. I listen to it sometimes, that early stuff. I am blown away. I am just, it just amazes me.

Wow. Yeah. Well, during one of the interviews in the film, someone asks you, you know, do you still have this voice? And if not, do you miss it? And you're like, I absolutely do not have that voice. And I absolutely do miss it. And I do miss it, but I'm focusing on what I do have. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and that got harder and harder, and that comes out at the beginning of the film. I'm struggling away with vocalizing, and happily my bouvier dog vocalizes with me at the same time to ease up on the pressure of it. But it got harder and harder, and so it just became effortful. During the tour, the last tour? Yes, and leading up to that, yeah. It's just as the years went by. I bought myself about 10 years by seeing the right vocal therapist, not just a trainer, not just a coach, but a therapist who could sort of manipulate on every level what I was doing with my voice. And it was a huge help.

It literally bought me some time. And how many shows did you do for this farewell tour total? Usually we did about 20, between 20 and 25 shows in general when I'd go out. Yeah, on a tour bus with your son. Yes. You know, the only thing, and I kind of wished it had gotten in the film, but I didn't have any say about anything, was that the parties we did on the bus, we did the dancing and drinking and roaring down the highway.

We call it bus dancing because periodically you're thrown into the seats. But we were family. And it was a big, nice kind of repair, can I say, with your relationship with your son, spending that kind of time together on the road? It began something. I mean, we had started, and earlier on when your kid says, they weren't there for me, and you think, well, fuck you, I was. And then little by little, going through the therapy thing, you know what? I wasn't. I was incapable of being present for my boy. And we've talked about this with a couple of moms in the last few days. And they said all moms think that they weren't present enough for their kids. And I think this is an exaggerated version of it, though, that I was gone so much.

And that he's so eloquent in the film and so forgiving, you know. But we started years ago going to therapy together to begin, you know, the process of healing those wounds, which were big. And we're still going. I mean, we hit a bump in the road and say, come on, who's going to call first and set up with our latest referee? And we do and we go back. And, you know, I just think that that gives hope to some people. The different things in the film we've discovered have been helpful to other people that, you know, you can go to therapy with your son. Wow, what a concept.

And make it through the tunnel with him. And in the relationship, his father spent some time in jail for, you know, activism. And you were assuming that you were going to probably spend some time in jail, too. Yeah. But you didn't, did you? Yeah, I did. Yeah, when I'm stepping into the little paddy wagon in the film. Oh, right, right, okay.

But it was, I mean, it was rehabilitation center, ha-ha. Okay. It was kind of a joke as far as jail time went. I enjoyed it. I gained eight pounds just eating commissary and really good food. Has weight gain been a problem for you in your life? No, but I was lying on my stomach. My mom was in there with me.

The next bed, I said, my stomach hurts. Turned out I had gained a bunch of weight, and I shouldn't be sleeping on my stomach. So, you know, it was not a big problem for me, but it was an important piece of political work. There were 30 women in there with me the first time and 60 the second time. And it was an important part of that movement, supporting draft resistance. Draft resistance. And you supported a civil rights movement a great deal, too. There's some footage of you walking a little black girl into school for the very first time.

And you say a beautiful thing, which you just said earlier about, you know, courage. It's not courageous to be holding that girl's hand. She's the one with courage to be walking into that situation. So there's so many beautiful moments in it. And it's just a real beautiful tapestry, I think, of your life. And it starts out when you say something very powerful as well, which is I think there's a time in every artist's life where you realize you're not who you used to be or you don't have the same quote-unquote value that you used to have. Yeah, yeah. So talk to me a little bit about that because you say anyone who doesn't admit that is lying.

Well, kind of. Yeah, I know. I mean, people have different ways of sugarcoating. I remember hearing one, I won't give the name, but very famous singer who had a little dip, should we say. And then she came back, and the interviewer was saying, what's the comeback feel like? She said, well, it didn't really go away. Well, it probably did a little bit, but it's really hard to deal with. I mean, I blamed everybody but myself when the audiences weren't as full, as big as they were.

I thought, well, they didn't advertise it properly. Well, they got the hall wrong. I mean, anything, but oh, my God, things have moved on, and I haven't moved with them. And then I was a dummy, and I think it says in the film, too. I dropped my wonderful manager and hooked up with my cute road manager who was taking too many drugs and was all stupid. Yeah, he sounds like an idiot, sort of. It was, the whole thing was idiotic. And the bottom dropped out. I had no machinery. I had no decent record company, et cetera, et cetera. It took a while for me to realize that's what

was happening. Yeah. And I think for all careers, there are dips and, you know, there are ebbs and flows also. So just because you're out, doesn't mean you're over because there is a comeback. It's just the recognition of that being a comeback for some of the artists is also hard to grasp because you had one of your hit records after that. In the middle of it, kind of. The middle of it.

It was in the middle of it. What was the name of the song? Well, the Diamonds and Rust was the one during that time period. And that was, I mean, I've had only literally three things that ever, or two things that ever made the quote charts. And it was Dixie and Diamonds and Rust. Diamonds and Rust. Yeah. Dixie had been before. Then it was Diamonds and Rust. And then began the great desert, you know. Beautiful albums I made. And then I woke up in the middle of the night when I was almost completely obscure and thought, sat up in bed. I thought, why am I making this beautiful, beautiful album when nobody's going to hear about my family? You know, I mean, I was, that's when I realized, yeah, I had to get moving on something and hired a manager, a wonderful manager.

Yeah. Yeah. I want to let you know I was texting with my friend Juliana Margulies yesterday. You know her? She's an actress. She played the nurse on ER. She's on The Good Wife. Anyway, she was like, I can't believe you're interviewing Joan Baez. She's like, you don't understand. She's like, that was the only music I played on guitar in college. She's like, I could only play Joan's songs because I was so obsessed with her. Oh, I love hearing that. Yeah, of course. And then towards the end of the film, you kind of reconcile your relationship with your mother, your father, your sisters, in a sense. Do you feel at peace with the way that all of those relationships ended? I do. There's a saying I've heard, I'm sure, from one of my Buddhist friends. You can forgive a little bit and feel a little bit better. You can forgive a lot, feel a lot better. Or you can forgive everything and be free. So it's hard work. And somebody in a Q&A once said, well, how do you do forgiveness? I mean, it's so difficult. I said, yeah, you do it a little bit at a time. You don't have to all of a sudden forgive what seems unforgivable. And you do it a little bit at a time. Keep plugging away at it. And was it hard for your son to watch that film or to know all of this information?

Was he privy to this before the film? Yeah, somewhat. But the film still was a shocker for anybody in my family, anybody in general. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, yeah, he's seen it on the big screen twice and once, you know, on a link. So he could see whether he wanted to come to see the big screen one or not. And he did, and he appreciates it.

And as I say, I appreciate his participating in it the way he did. Same as I do with my sisters. I mean, my older sister would never get in front of a camera or talk to anybody. But Karen O'Connor, who is the main director, really won her confidence. They became friends, and Pauline was willing to say what she said. When you say you had no control over the film, so they just came to you with a concept, and you didn't have any approval at the end or anything? I had no approval.

I had nothing to say through the whole thing. That's why, I mean, what I say, I handed them the keys. And it was the keys to the storage room, literally. Because if I had tried to have some control, which I couldn't anyway, but if I tried to, oh, don't put that, oh, no, I look horrible now, oh, can you do this one, it would have been impossible to make the film. So I just said, go with it. And when I see it sometimes, I think, eh, I wish that hadn't been in there.

And then I realized what a brilliant movie it is. And that was a part of that movie. So maybe my ego might be a little bruised here and there. But for the most part, wrinkles and all, I think the film is – I think you should cut your slack on the wrinkle aspect of things. I think you don't realize how beautiful, naturally beautiful you are. Thank you. You really are.

You don't look like an old person. Thank you. At all. I don't feel like an old person. No, you don't act like one. You don't seem like one. and you could still see the beauty of your youth in you today. Thank you.

Like, you were gorgeous, and you are gorgeous. When do I get to come back and hear more? Tomorrow. You're coming back every day this week. We didn't tell you yet. Where can people watch this film, by the way? It'll be out in theaters, and then it starts streaming on November 22nd. Hulu.

On Hulu. Exactly. Check out Joan Baez, I Am A Noise, in theaters now or on Video On Demand on November 21st. Okay, let's take a break, and we will be right back. there's no shortcut for saving time but saving money is simple just combine your car and home insurance with bel-air direct and save get a quote at bel-air direct.com when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months

i survived and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. And we're back. We're back. Well, Joan, are you ready to give some advice? Oh, sure. Okay. What a joke.

Okay. No, no. What are you talking about? You're very serious. You have so many years on this earth. Everyone's advice is valuable. Okay. They have to believe it whether they believe it or not.

So go ahead. Well, our first question comes from Blanca. And her question is a little delicate, but you have been so outspoken about your Mexican-American heritage, and so I thought this would be a good question for you. She says, Dear Chelsea, I've always been a go-getter. I was born in Venezuela to Spanish parents. I wanted to go to university in Spain, and although the process and odds seemed to be against me at the time, both financially and academically, I did it. I also wanted to have my own business in my early 20s, and while I failed in many ways, I also succeeded and learned a lot from the experience. I moved to England nine years ago. I'm in my mid-30s now, and I love it here. However,

professionally, it's been really hard. No matter how hard I work or how many great results I achieve, I have to fight really hard for the bare minimum. I've had to work double hours compared to everyone else and show real results in all my jobs, thinking it would bring positive outcomes. But instead, I've received a lot of hate in return, especially from my direct manager. Once at a large corporation, the HR director told me directly, you have come in and done a great job very quickly and have angered a lot of white men. I'm not paraphrasing. Those were his exact words. The cycle has repeated in different forms throughout the years. On the face of it, I have continued to push through and not given up

on my dream to have a career I love. I have also taken the hardship as an opportunity to work on myself and be the kind of manager I never had, which has been very rewarding. So here's the issue. I left a job and a team I loved three months ago because of the same circumstances repeating. Unlike other times, I find myself deeply sad and my confidence has taken a big hit. During job interviews, I seem to have lost my confidence and I can't sell myself or the great work I've done. I'm not sure if I'm being realistic about the dream of having a career or if I'm just part of a system that wants to see my potential die. I don't want to give up, but I'm out of ideas as to what's best to do next. What should I do? Thanks for creating this space, Blanca.

Oh, gosh. Tough one. It's a tough one. I know. I would definitely say never to give up on what you are passionate about because of a bunch of white men telling you that you can't do it. But Joan, let me, I'll let you speak a little bit about your own experience or your thoughts on this matter. Well, what's standing out to me is old white men, because it really is a symbol of the fascism that's traveling around the world. I have a friend, an Italian friend, he's in his 90s now, but I remember him telling me stories about when he was a kid and he woke up to the sound of tanks running through, you know, running through his block where he lived. When I called, no, half a year ago, a year ago, I said, how are you? He said, oh, it's interesting. I was born in fascism. I will die in fascism.

And it's coming and it's here. It's hard for us to admit that or see it. So it's going to be a struggle for everybody. And I don't know how to give advice from here in my privileged position, except that somehow all of us will need to hang on to decency, try to promote just human decency with each other. It would be different years ago I would have said, you know, link arms, we shall overcome, let's go march. And right now the odds are so huge that you somehow have to find your, I mean, what I do agree with it,

you said don't give up your passion. You have to find something that you really believe in. And I just suggest that be something that benefit other people as well as yourself. Is there anything that either of you would say to help her sort of regain her confidence? I mean, in my mind, I'm like, tell your future employers this, that you've had to work twice as hard. You know, talk about the extra steps you've taken to make sure that you shine in your roles. But is there anything that you would say to the confidence aspect and like helping her pick herself emotionally off the ground? I think letting other people deteriorate your confidence is exactly what they want.

People, when they tear you down or they don't want to acknowledge your good work, it is because they want you to think less of yourself because they also think less of you, and they want to impress their opinion on you. So allowing that to happen is letting them win. I know it's not a choice. You're not choosing to lose your confidence, but you're allowing them to chip away at your confidence. And I think you have to do some inside work, whether it be mantras to yourself, whether it be journaling every day, to reclaim your value. And find people who have like mind. And that's desperately important. Maybe she has that.

But to have people who support you is absolutely essential. Maybe not that easy to find, but they're there. If you're there with your struggles, there's somebody else who's there as well. And the power begins to come when you have each other. It makes it easier to speak out, makes it easier to have courage, find three people. Yeah. Men can be very insecure about their own standing and they can be very intimidated by women who have something to offer because it means we don't need anything from them. You know what I mean?

That's their insecurity. You know, I've been told, well, just play into it, work it, work it. I'm not really in a position that I need to work it or play into any of that bullshit. You know, and I'm lucky because and I'm and I'm sure that you are not in the same position because you do need to work. You need to take these job opportunities. But I just want you to know it's it's men. It's not only because you're a woman of color. Men are scared of women that are strong and men are scared of women that are capable.

So I hope you can take some solace in knowing that that happens to people in different positions and you're not alone. and it's up to you to instill in yourself the confidence and not let people chip away at that. And I promise you like the power of positive thinking, the power of positive mantras, the power of meditation and positive, just feeding yourself in a positive loop of like value, of what your value is, all the things you're good at,

you know, waking up and telling yourself, this is what I'm great at and naming some things and just kind of building your confidence back up so that their slaps and strikes against you don't knock you over, you know? It just kind of becomes like a breeze that blows right past you. And it's easier said than done, but it's definitely doable. So that's what I have to say on that. And I'm thinking of a friend of mine who wanted people of like minds

to be part of his life, new apartment. After a few weeks not really making any friends, put a sign up saying, I will be meditating at 8 o'clock in the morning. Here's the place. join me if you feel like it and it took a while and then pretty soon there was a group of people who really were comfortable with each other and they spent half an hour hour in silence i don't know how many days a week but really important bonds that way community building yeah yeah you

have to create a scene that is safe for you it's funny i was talking to brandy carlisle the other day we're at the angel city game the soccer game and she was talking about creating a music scene because she said there was no scene when she came up. She needed a scene. She's made a scene. Yeah, exactly. She created a scene. And it's like I think that can apply to community as well.

You create your community. There are ways. Like I love what you just said. I don't know if this woman is a meditator or anything like that, but there are ways to find solace within all of the chaos. And you're definitely not alone in the chaos. So any way you can community build, create a scene for yourself that is a safe space that re-fortifies you, right,

and kind of rebuilds your self-esteem, et cetera. And instills a calmness within all of this. Yeah. Yeah. Well, keep us posted, Blanca. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance

with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at belairdirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page

are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm gonna have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Our next question comes from Callie, and she's going to be joining us on the Zoom here. Okay, this is a live caller, Joan. You better get ready. Okay, I'm ready. I'm live too. Amazing. So Callie says, I'm a 24-year-old living in North Carolina with my fiancé. I came out as bisexual a few years ago when I met my fiancé, and she has been the greatest thing to happen in my life.

However, while my mom has been 100% supportive of the relationship, my extended family have always been a little shady. They're devout Christians, the kind that believe that same-sex marriage is a sin. However, when they met my fiancé, they said they loved her, were welcoming, and I thought maybe they were conflicted with the subject in their religion. They led me to believe they'd be coming to our wedding next fall. Recently, my cousin got engaged and fast-tracked her engagement by getting married this fall. Well, I accepted my cousin's invitation and a few days later checked in with my family to see if they'd be coming to my wedding. The worst 48 hours of my life began. One of the messages that came in said they wouldn't be able to come but send their, quote, best wishes.

I wrestled with the decision of whether to back out of my cousin's wedding and ended up deciding to go be a part of it. I felt I was no better than my aunts and uncles if I didn't go, and I'd be putting the same negative energy out into the world that they were. Moving forward, I don't know the relationship I want to have with my family. I was extremely close with them growing up, and it feels like the people I once knew are gone. Am I ridiculous for thinking I can hold out in hopes they realize the mistakes they've made?

Or should I save myself more grief by cutting ties now? Callie. Hi, Callie. Hey. This is Joan Baez, our special guest today. Lucky you. It's great to meet all of you. It's nice to meet you, sweetie.

Nice to meet you, too. First of all, sorry you're going through this. I'm so fucking over religion. I really wish everyone would just stop it. I mean, it is just the basis of all discrimination and war and wreckage. So that's annoying. We get calls like this a lot from people calling in with families that can't accept their children's relationships. And I don't know, Joan, you have more life experience.

So I'll let you speak. obviously but I just want to say I I don't think there's any time to waste in having people in your life that don't support you and love you like I just don't think it's worthwhile and I know people feel differently about family members I I feel very vehemently that you should only be surrounding yourself with people that love and respect you and I totally agree with you going to your cousin's wedding because it's just another chance to demonstrate what they're missing out on when they don't want to celebrate you yeah exactly that's kind of I mean that's part of the reason why I went. I wanted to see my family that was supportive. I just wanted a chance to be with

them. And then I was also like, if I'm not going, I'm just putting that same negative energy out into this world. And I didn't want her to feel the way that I felt when I showed up that day at the wedding. I didn't know how she would feel if I didn't show up. And I just didn't want her to go through that same pain that I was. And so I am happy that I went, but it was definitely difficult, especially to look some of them in the eye and act, I guess, civil. I don't know, like everything was okay. It's really hard to do that when it's your identity that they want to question. And how did you feel after that wedding? Did you feel good about yourself and good about those interactions? Like how did it make you feel? I felt strong when I left. I think I was proud of

myself for putting up sort of with those that I know aren't supportive of me just to see those that were because I had a good time with them. I got to spend some time with my little cousins and that really meant a lot to me. So when I walked away, I felt strong, but I'll be honest, the minute I got away from them, I started to cry. I think it was just that acceptance of I'm never going to have that feeling, that comfortable feeling with my family again, that is gone. And I think that's why I was questioning, should I still try to reach out to them? Should I still try to have a relationship? Because I think for me, it's forever, that feeling is going to be gone. I think I go directly to Dan Savage, which is they may come around. They may come around when you least expect it. And I think you've done absolutely the right thing because all you can do is have your own empathy for them, which you've shown. And they will learn something from that, even if it's not conscious at the moment.

and i think giving it some time is also important and it's really frustrating because you want it to be okay now but i think you're doing absolutely the right thing thank you yeah i think i i wonder in the future down the road will they regret not getting to come to my wedding like making that decision will they regret it i don't know maybe but yeah yeah i think that's something that we all wrestle with you know when people kind of reject us it's like a breakup you know are you going to regret leaving me and hopefully they will hopefully they'll come to their senses at some point and feel like it feel how silly this is I mean at this point in the world I mean to honestly not be accepting of gay people is absolutely ridiculous you know and to hide

under the umbrella of religion for for that with your own daughter is ridiculous so that's not what love is. And I don't think as, as, as much as you're going to wonder or hope for their regret, it's all about you holding your head up high, going to your cousin's wedding was you holding your head up high. You should be proud of that. And then you know what it made you feel like when you left. If you felt like shit when you left, which you did, then that's you, your body and your brain telling you that's not good enough for me. You're operating at this level. They're still down here. If they want to come up to your level, they can come anytime, but they have to accept you and your partner. And that's just it. And it doesn't have to be mean in the way you say

it, or it doesn't have to be heavy handed. It's just like, that's the reality. This is the person that I love. And this is who I'm choosing to spend my life with. And if you can respect us and show us both respect and love, great. I'm happy to see you guys anytime. But until then, I don't need you in my life. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Yeah. And Chelsea talks a lot about sending people love. And I think this is maybe one of the only things you can do in this situation because you don't know if and when one or more of them might, quote unquote, change their minds and talk to you about like, wow, I can't believe I did that to you back then. It may never happen, but like it also very well may. And I think until then, you know, you can send them love, but you can't stake your

own self-confidence on it. And I don't think that you are. Right. I don't either. Yeah. And I think, you know, you can look at it this way. Once you remove your family, you have so much room for other people. You can make a whole new family. You know what I mean? Your bandwidth becomes bigger because you have more room in your life. So you can think about it that way as an expansion. And how is your fiance's family? Are they all accepting and loving? Yeah, they're all accepting, loving. They're all already intending to come to the wedding. And so it was a shock for me when we received the messages from my family that they wouldn't be attending due to religious reasons, but it was also a shock for her. I think I was surprised by

how much it affected her, but I know it's because we're in this together and that was meant to be her family soon. And just so she felt that same rejection that I felt, but you guys were making the point about keeping that door open. And that's, I think what I was intending to do by going to the wedding is I had friends in the past who also, because of religion, didn't believe that my identity was okay or my relationship was okay. And so I've had practice with understanding how do you keep a door open, but protect yourself. And so I feel like that's what I was just trying to do here with going to the wedding, but also setting those boundaries, like you said. Give more time to your fiance's family and the people who love and support you,

because that's where your strength is going to come from. Yeah. Just trying to fill my life with the people that are going to respect me and my relationship. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, Kelly. Thank you. And have a great wedding, Kelly. Sending you lots of love and support. Thank you so much, guys. Yeah.

Bye. Bye. I always wonder, it's so crazy to me that you could be a mother and just discount your child based on who they're attracted to. Like, how lame is that? Because of some, what, because God is telling you in a book that somebody made up? I mean, it's so stupid. Yeah.

Wasn't what Jesus said was love one another? I mean, it's pretty basic. And you don't know what turmoil they're in. Right. They must be in some kind of state in there. It's like a perpetual intergenerational traumatization. You know, everyone is so traumatized and everyone's got this narrative in their head that they keep perpetuating and perpetuating. And then when the cycle breaks, everyone's like, wait, what?

No, no, no, we're not doing that. It's like they'd rather be in the cycle of trauma than break it. And they can't be happy. Yeah, no. You can't be happy. Right. Well, our next caller is Gail. Gail says, Dear Chelsea, I recently moved back in with my mother this May.

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was 24, now 28, and learning to cope with this illness has been a journey. I was hospitalized several times this year and had to leave my dream job in a city that I loved, Boston. I currently live on Cape Cod with my mom and feel blessed, but I'm struggling to feel connected to my greater sense of purpose. To say the least, I'm in a period of transition. I feel out of touch with my dreams and aspirations since my relocation. The majority of my life, I've been a type A person, and that has not served me most recently. My new motto has been take it easy, and I've been doing just that. Now my health is back on track, and I'm looking for advice on how to realign with a future that's meaningful and fulfilling.

Since leaving my job and spending months in the hospital, my finances aren't great either. But, of course, when it rains, it pours. I know living with my mother isn't permanent, but how do I reconnect with my goals without feeling too down about where I am currently? Any advice on how to make each day count? All the best, Gail. Hi, Gail. Hi. Hi, this is Joan Baez, our special guest today.

Hi, Gail. Hi, better to speak with you. I know, isn't it? Okay, let's get you up and running. Okay. Okay, so you're living with your mother. Listen, who gives a shit? That's fine.

You know, you're not a man. You're a woman. You're allowed to live with your mother. I'm not sexist in any way in favor of women, by the way. How old are you? How old did you say you are? 28. Okay.

So everything's fine. Just, you know what I mean? You're going to be fine. You're only 28 years old. This is fine. All of this is fine. And in terms of reconnecting, you just have to get yourself in a position of covering the basis of like every single day to get you towards the goal of where you want to

be. You know, like let's talk about where you'd like to see yourself in six months. you want to have a job? Yes. I mean, I'm doing all these sorts of odd jobs here and there. But in six months, I like to have something, you know, full time with benefits like I had, you know, before. So yes. Okay. And so what is the area that you're are you going to move into the same area you were in before? Are you looking to move into a different area? Well, I'm considering staying where I am. So I also want to move out in six months. So I'm kind of thinking wherever I can get a job that's going to allow me to move out and sustain myself. Great. So how are you

going to do that? I've been applying to a ton of jobs. So I actually have an interview tomorrow, which is exciting. Okay, great. And what field of work are you in? So I did design for a while, and I want to, you know, sort of shift out of that in the future. But this is another job in design, sort of sales consultant. Okay, well, that those jobs are plentiful. So you can definitely line up job interviews for yourself in the next few weeks so that you have a cascade of them rather than just one, right? Do you have anything else lined up in terms of an interview? No, that's the only one. So you're right. More. Okay. So more outreach. What part of the country are you in?

I'm in Massachusetts. Okay. Are you close to Boston? It's like an hour and a half. Okay. Well, then there you got to, I mean, that should be your aim, no? Are you interested in living in Boston? Yeah, that's where I moved back from. I was living in Boston before. I was working at a design firm and it was great.

And then, you know, I had to move back with my mother. So, you know, going back to Boston would be wonderful. And your bipolar disorder is you're on medication and that's completely under control. Yeah, but I'm on, I'm medicated and it's under control. Thank goodness. Okay. Yeah. Thank goodness for that.

So you're all, you've taken all the steps in the right direction. Like you are very conscious of where you need to go. And first, I think your first goal would be, you know, do more outreach in the Boston area so you have a whole slew of job interviews lined up. Reach out to anyone that you know in this field, anyone you've worked with before, letting them know you're interested in getting back into it, that you're interested in getting back into the Boston area because that's where you're going to probably have the most, you know, luck in finding a job,

I would think, in that city since there is so much action there. And even while you could even commute there, you know, it being an hour away, You could take a train, you could take a bus, you could drive to Boston, whatever you, you know, whatever you need to do. So I think in the immediate future, that should be what you spend the next couple of weeks doing is outreach to procure more job interviews. Okay, that's great. Thanks. And I think, and Joan, you can chime in anytime if you want to. I would say, obviously, worry about the job before you worry about moving out. You want to get situated and get into a stable situation working for somebody. And I would say after about three months, once you do get a job, and I'm confident you will get one sooner than you probably think, then you can start thinking about where you want to live and where you can afford to live based on how much you're earning. And maybe you stay with your mother for six months. Maybe you stay with your mom for nine months. Maybe it's a year.

Don't beat yourself up about that because you want to set yourself up for success, not for failure. Yeah, thanks. I think I haven't really known what to do first. So it's nice to hear that go for the job first because that will make everything easier. Once I have the job, then I can plan my next step. And I didn't become really successful, I just want you to know, until I was 32 years old. So you have four years.

Our weighted tables, all of my 20s. I wrote a couple books and I had a couple gigs, but I wasn't like on my own doing everything until I was 32. Completely independent and financially free until I was 32 years old. So please do not worry about your age. It's about your health, your mental health, getting yourself in a strong situation so that you're going to succeed, not so that you're going to overdo it

and then have to come back and live with your mother. You want to set up like this ballast of support around you so that when you leave, it's for the last time. Yes, absolutely. That's exactly what I want. Joan, what do you think? I think you've said it all. I have absolutely nothing to say.

She became successful at a very early age and that can have its shortfalls too. You know what I mean? It's good to go through this stuff in your earlier years rather than have this like hit you when you're 38 or 48. So there are a lot of things to be grateful for that you feel probably like are big stumbling blocks now that are not.

They're not stumbling blocks now because you can pick yourself up more easily at this age. So you live right outside of a major city, not far outside of a major city. You're going to have a lot of like opportunity there. And I think you just have to like put out every antenna you can to any, and think and just write down a list of all the people

that you would feel comfortable reaching out to. And then do research online about all the companies and design companies that are in the Boston area. and, you know, what they offer. And even if it's something that doesn't feel like it speaks to you exactly, I would say put out a feeler, you know? Just try and get as much information you can

about what's out there right now. Okay, thanks. I've not really been doing that, so that'll be my next step. Yeah, you should use your time wisely while you have it, you know? And also pick up some books on, you know, design and career and, like, meditation

and things that are going to keep you grounded. Develop some good habits now while you have the time to add to your toolkit so that you don't find yourself in this position again. And doesn't it help that it's possible that it's the person you run into or the people you run into that defines where you want to go? Yeah, that's very true. I mean, it's like in school, you're really kind of bored with the whole thing until you find a teacher you really love, and it almost doesn't matter what the subject is.

So I think that could be in there a little bit. If you find somebody who inspires you or a group of people who inspires you, then go from there. Okay. Thanks. One little tip for like right before you do your interview tomorrow, look up power poses, Google power poses. You will look and feel very goofy doing them. But it's basically if you think of, you know, when you see somebody who's like just made a goal in a sports game, like the power pose that they do where they're like, yeah, do those for about three minutes before you go into your interview. You can do them in the privacy of your own home. You can do them in the bathroom at the place you go into. But there's actually like a marked difference in the ratio of people who get hired after doing those versus not doing those. It just does something like to raise your confidence and it like puts that confidence into your body, even though it feels totally goofy.

So do a quick Google after this call. Okay, power poses, you got it. And also visualize how you want the interview to go beforehand. You know, that really matters. Manifesting like positive experiences. Visualize you being enthusiastic and excited about the potential of this job and visualize them being responsive to that excitement and wanting you to be part of their team and just visualize it all being successful.

That matters too. You know, sometimes we do the opposite and it's like, no, we don't. If you focus on something negative, that always has a tendency to kind of become a reality. When you focus on the positive aspects of a situation, that tends to become a reality. So don't undervalue that or underplay that. Really sit with yourself because you have an intention. You want to get a job. You're looking for the right job.

You're not just going to take any job. You want to get into a job that's also going to, you know, use your strengths and play to your strengths and what your talents are. And I agree with Chelsea that visualization and the positive thinking ahead of time, I did that for most of the second half of my career once I learned how, which for me, it was also with self-hypnosis that somebody taught me. So I could get to a certain level of subconscious and then talk to myself. This is how it's going to be. This is how I'm going to feel. And then even go into what am I going to wear? How am I going to walk?

How am I going to greet these people? and you just really live through a lot of it visualize i'm big on visualization i think as chelsea is as well that's my two bits thank you okay i want you to keep us posted okay check in with us in a few weeks and like give us an update i want to know what happens with you okay i will keep you updated okay we're invested in your future thank you thanks so much kale Bye. Talk soon. Okay. Should we take a break first? Let's take a little break. Okay. We're going to take a little break and we'll be right back. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save.

Get a quote at belairdirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm gonna have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments nothing is off the

table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the pages and we're back Joan is undressing now Joan is undressing that's what we do

that's what we do in between breaks somebody takes their top off I was surprised for it to be Joan but you know well our last question comes from Jessica

she says dear Chelsea my curiosity about mushrooms has grown significantly lately and I'm interested in trying some

micro dosing however I have some in my purse right now I wish you were here I would give them to you mushroom gummies. Jessica. However, my only experience in this world of self-medication is alcohol and weed. I wanted to ask you whether you think it's a good idea for my friend and I

to try shrooms for the first time at your show since we have tickets. Who better to try mushrooms with than the Dr. Handler? My hesitations are worrying whether it will make me anxious or if I would get nauseous or anything like that. I essentially don't want to sign up to embarrass myself in public. Thoughts, Jessica? Okay. Well, this is what I would recommend, Jessica. You should microdose. You don't take a whole thing of mushrooms for the first time. And if you can do it in a chocolate or gummy form or pure mushroom form, I don't like those capsules. The only time I've ever felt nauseous on mushrooms is with those capsules. Every person is different. So that's my DNA versus your DNA. But I really would impress upon you. You can't really do anything wrong or

too badly if you're microdosing. Like most people can't even feel a microdose. So I would start there and definitely do it at my show because you're not going to have to be thinking about anything. I'll be doing all the work for you. Do you take mushrooms, Joan? Not yet. And it's time. Do you really have some? Yeah, I'll give you some. I will take some. Okay, perfect. Yeah. And I think like it's always good, you know, like a set of mushrooms is I believe like three or four grams. What they put in a microdose is like 0.001 gram or 0.01 gram.

So like you're going to be okay, but just make sure it's a microdose. And then you decide, oh, I like this. I like a little more. Don't say I don't feel it and then double down. Don't do that. Big mishnook. Yeah. Yeah.

Great. Well, Jessica. I love ending on a mushroom note. Perfect. Now I have to dose Joan. And everyone, you guys, please watch this documentary because it's so beautifully done. And like I said before, which I like the way I said it, it's a tapestry of someone's life. and I watched it twice last night

because I watched it once and I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. So when you said you watch it, you see different things. You know, I think we all obviously do. You kind of miss things at a certain time, but it's just captivating. It's just, it's a snapshot of a time,

you know, when I wasn't old enough to understand, you know, what was going on. But I know about all those events and I know about you. So it was really beautiful to see and you're really going to enjoy it. And especially if you're a music lover because her voice is just so unique and so soulful.

Thank you, Joan Baez. Thank you, Chelsea. I learned a lot today from you. Oh, come on. No, it was just lovely. Thanks. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for being here.

Do you have a holiday-themed question for Chelsea? Please send us all the questions you need answered about crazy family get-togethers, arguing over which cranberry sauce recipe to use, and all your holiday drama. just send your questions to dear chelsea podcast at gmail.com dear chelsea is edited and engineered by brad dickard executive producer katherine law and be sure to check out our merch at chelsea handler.com i survived nine months in captivity and i've spent my life exploring how other people

survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse each week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop

culture with your favorite writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts i'm hoda kotb host of the podcast joy 101 with hoda kotb you know i'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.