Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Kill Them (with Kindness) with Julianna Margulies

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

Julianna Margulies is back!  She and Chelsea cover learning to love your elders, the unfulfilled promise of matcha lemonade, and how Julianna is fighting back against anti-semitism.  Then: A new mom wrestles with a nasty neighbor.  A caller from a previous Julianna episode has an update.  And a wife wonders if she’d be better off without her husband, after all. * Note: This episode was recorded prior to the SAG-AFTRA strike.  * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you hear the new episode of the Hey Jonas podcast? We are at D23, so we'll see who stops by. The cast of Frozen stopped by. Kristen Bell, Josh Gad, and Idina Menzel. I auditioned for Frozen. What? For Kristoff.

They said, okay, what are you going to be singing today? I said, I don't know. That must have been why you didn't get it. Oh, you probably won. Plus, John Stamos, Hayden Christensen from Star Wars, and more. And I guess I can share that, uh... No way. Listen to the latest episode of Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. Everyone has a good time, and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show. We've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman, Adam Scott, Danny McBride, Ben Stiller, and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Hi, Chelsea.

How are you? Well, I have been traveling like a little Easter bunny. Yeah, you have. Making my rounds around the world, and I cannot tell you how exciting and fun it is. It's so nice to be out of the country. I've been out of the country. I have to ask you, you have been so many places this summer. You're going to Africa.

You're going to all these different places. Is there anything still on your bucket list? What's still on your bucket list? Oh, yeah, of course. I haven't been to a lot of places. I have never been to Prague. I've never been to Beirut, which is supposed to be really interesting. I've never been to, well, I would like to go to Istanbul.

and I want to go to Jordan. I want to go to Jordan. Oh. Yeah. So isn't that where that church that's like carved into the stone is from Indiana Jones? I'm not sure about that, but I need to know someone

who has lived in any of these places when I go. Because when I go to somewhere that I really need to like, usually we get a tour guide. Sure. And that's fine. You know, they're actually very informative and it's a good way to learn about the city. Better than me left to my own devices

because I'll just end up in a cafe drinking all day if nobody says anything. But, yeah, I don't know. I have to find out who to take those trips with. And I like to be with somebody who's been there before. Like, India is another place that I would like to go back to without working. Because when I went there, I was filming as well. Russia, I've been there.

I'm wrapped on Russia, as everyone, you know. We're good with that. Yeah, I'm good with that. So I don't know what I have on my bucket list. I want to take my sisters to Bora Bora, because they've never been there. And that was one of the happiest trips of my life, which I've discussed on the show. Oh, I also started reading The Body Keeps the Score. You did?

It's pretty heavy. I didn't realize how heavy it was. So I started reading that. And then I realized I have eight books I'm reading. And with traveling, I'm downloading them on my Kindle. I mean, sorry, I don't have a Kindle. My iPad. But my iPad's fucking battery runs out so quickly.

So I need a hardcover. And I much prefer a hardcover anyway. But I'm in the middle of like six books. And when I travel, I don't read as much because I'm too busy gallivanting around, you know hooking up with strangers and trying to meet friends and stuff like that yeah well okay tell me if you can help me with this because brad and i are going well we have our 15th wedding anniversary this year oh my gosh how wild 15 years is a long time it's a long time and we've been together for 18 oh like truly if we had gotten pregnant our first night dating then we would

basically have a high school graduate yeah but what kind of fucking logic is that what are you talking about I was almost in a plane crash what do you mean yeah it does feel that way but I actually was pregnant when I was 15 years old so if I had a baby that's something to talk about if I had a baby if I had had my baby when I was pregnant wait let's do the math on this I would be he would be I'm 48 that baby would be 30 I would have a 33 year old baby wow well He wouldn't be a baby. I don't know why it's a he. But, yeah.

Oh, God. Thank God I didn't do that. See, you made some right life choices. So, we are going away somewhere for our 15th anniversary. We're not sure when or where. Okay, Brad says his limit for a trip is nine days. He won't go for longer than nine days. Why, Brad?

I'm like, let's go to Italy for a month and we can work from there. He's like, no. Why, Brad? What's your... I get stir crazy. Stir crazy? You're on vacation. I know.

Thank you. But I've got other stuff that I like to do. You've got shit to do, Chelsea. Yeah, I've got shit to do. No, I feel like nine days you start to feel like, all right, I'm ready to go home now. Oh, that's so funny. I never feel like it's time to go home. I mean, don't get me wrong.

I like being on the road. I like traveling. But then at a certain point, I'm ready for my own bed and a comfortable, familiar surrounding, you know? Uh-huh. Okay. So nine minutes. Who wants to get back to work? Nine days.

I don't. Yes. Well, you can go do that, anything. I don't know where you would go for nine days. You could break it up. Go to Italy. Go to Puglia. Yeah, Puglia.

Yeah, people like those pictures there. And then there's Cinque Terre or Cinque Terre. I don't know how you say it. And that's supposed to be beautiful. You can bounce around Italy in nine days. That's what I'm kind of thinking. Florence is the best city in Italy, in my opinion, that I've been to. Like the most beautiful, sexy, beautiful museums there.

I mean, Rome is cool, but Rome's like a shit show. Yeah, like touristy. Feels out of control, yeah. I've literally been trying to get her to go to Italy with me for like 15 years. Oh, there you go. That's your answer. Listen, I'll go anytime. You just take me.

Yeah, the thing is with my house in Mallorca, I stopped going to Italy when I bought this house. I don't really go anywhere else except for Mallorca. It's just wonderful. So, yeah, but I'm heading to Portugal soon, so we'll see how that goes. That will be fun. We were almost going to go to Portugal because my cousin was getting married there, and now she's getting married in L.A. Yeah, I need to find a Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian man that is taller and bigger than me. who knows the area so we can take you on tours yeah yeah yeah and broken english i like that

like back and forth yeah send us your recommendations everybody okay yeah okay guys we have added more shows to my little big bitch tour because i'm coming all over we had a second show at the pantages in los angeles so that's october 12th and friday the 13th we added a second show in boston at the wang center september 29th and 30th is two shows in new york i also have a show in East Hampton, New York, August 26th. We added a second show in Portland. So Thursday, November 2nd, Friday, November 3rd in Portland,

November 4th and 5th in San Francisco, two shows there. We added a second show in Seattle, November 10th and 11th. Two shows Boston are November 16th and 17th at the Bach Center at Wang Theater. And I'm also coming to Toronto and Montreal and Ottawa.

and so many other cities, Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville. So I will see everybody at all of these shows. Thank you. Get your tickets at chelseahandler.com. Our guest today is back by popular demand. Many of you love her because you've heard her on this podcast, or I should say you love her on this podcast, if that's not how you've heard of her. But she's a very good friend of mine, and it is an absolute delight because she loves giving advice as much as I do. Juliana Margulies. Catherine. Hi, hi. Your favorite person is here. Hi, Catherine. Hi, Juliana. I knew Catherine wasn't going to be here, so I didn't bring you this disgusting. I heard matcha lemonade. So there's a store downstairs and I was like,

well, she's probably already had coffee. I've had coffee. What's a matcha lemonade? You've been watching too much of Keeping Up with the Kardashians. Oh, no, it's not called that anymore what is it called the kardashians the kardashians courtney kardashian all she bangs on about matcha lemonade the whole time do you know i've never seen one episode oh of course you haven't good for you okay hi hi more on that later yeah we'll talk about it okay i'm sure we are we have our very sexual guest um she's back by popular demand because of her sexual voice and her sexual advice juliana marcules is back for the what time is this the third time third time Lucky Baby. Oh, I love it. But we're on season four, so we're going to have to double up because

you need to be in. And I think we need to stop having seasons, Catherine. Isn't that correct? How does a podcast season work? Exactly. We make it up as we go along, basically. A fiscal year. How does that work? Do I do my taxes by it? It's basically whenever I decide I need two weeks off, that's the break we get. Got it. And this time I'm just your cohort. Yeah. I mean, I don't even have any questions to ask you because I talk to you all the time. Actually, I do have some questions to ask you. Juliana and I

have a date tonight. We have a romantic evening planned. Because Juliana also has a birthday coming up tomorrow, which she wants to spend with her husband. I'm not sure why, but I'll go with it. Happy birthday. I know. Chelsea was like, no, let's do it on your birthday. I'm like, I have a husband.

I probably should have dinner with my husband. What does he have to do with anything? He can come. Yeah. So we're doing it. Actually, it's better because, first of all, I want to say one thing. I was listening to a podcast. Rarely do I not listen to yours. Okay. But I heard Dionne von Furstenberg on Julia Louis-Dreyfus' Wiser Than Me. Oh, yeah. I heard that's a great podcast. It's great. I think I texted you and I was like, Chelsea, you need to listen to this because it's all women older than her.

Maybe that's how I heard it. And Julie is older than us, so it's just these beautiful words of wisdom. And Dionne, who I know, but oftentimes when I see her, I can't really understand what she's saying. I've met her. But she was so clear on this podcast. Anyway, I was watering my garden last weekend, and one of the questions that Julie Louis-Dreyfus always asks her guests

are, do you mind if I ask you your age? And most of them all say, not at all. I'm 75, whatever. Not Dion. Dion said, you can, but I don't like the way you phrased it. I like to say, how many years have you lived? It's much more honorable. It is. And I realize, like, yeah, to say, even to a kid, like, how many years have you lived on this planet? I've lived nine years. It like, it suddenly makes age seem exciting. Yeah. Rather than horrifying.

I agree with that. I've been actually examining the way that I feel about elderly people recently because, you know, in other cultures, I mean, I hate when people say certain cultures are more family oriented than other cultures, because to me, what culture isn't family oriented besides like ISIS? You know what I mean? Like everyone likes their family. Anyway, I don't know if ISIS is a culture, but they'd like to be any anyway. And I realized like when my grandparents, like when people become kind of, I don't know, ineffectual or like they're not really participating in life the way that you value people participating in life. I've noticed that I don't take the elderly as seriously as I want to. Like I'm dismissive of somebody when they're out of it, when they're old and they're out of it. Like when my dad hit a wall and I know your mom had a big birthday recently. Yeah, 88. 88, right. And my stepmother's 91 today.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Thank you, Dad, for leaving me her to take care of. And tell me what your thoughts on that, what I'm saying are. So, you know, in Japan, it's opposite, right? The older you are, the more respected you are. The more revered. Sorry, Juliana brought some matcha lemonade.

It's awful. It's not. I have to gargle now with some sparkling water. I'm actually going to fine you for bringing that instead of saying thank you. The reason I brought it was because I'm always early. I was downstairs early at 2 rather than 2.25 when I was supposed to be here. And I thought, oh, I'll bring Chelsea something to drink. She's been in a studio all day.

And then I thought, Chelsea's so adventurous. She's always trying new things. She's always going to different countries. Don't get the same old, same old. Get her. And I said to the guy, what's a matcha lemonade? That sounds bizarre. And he goes, it's really good.

It's awful. It also needs to be, I don't understand in New York or really anywhere, why they don't put more ice in drinks. When you put a little amount of ice in drinks, it melts faster. It's a natural store down there. That's why. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway. That's a very American thing. Ice. I know. I know. I know. I've been traveling and I understand that.

We're also going on a romantic vacation, Chelsea and I. And when we go to London and you ask for ice, they put one cube in the glass. Oh, I don't worry. I'm prepared. Okay. I already ship.

I ship ice ahead. You think with all these amounts. I ship ice. You think with all these ice caps melting, we'd have more fucking ice, not less of it. We need to get that ice and use it for drinks. My friend was going off the other day about water. And then I was talking to somebody else this morning about water, you know, because everyone's always shoving water down our throats. Like water is so important.

You have to have water, water, water, water. And now all I hear from doctors is it doesn't matter how much water you drink. You will never hydrate yourself. You have to put electrolytes in the water. You have to. And I'm like, OK, but why has everyone been banging on about water for so many years if it doesn't do anything? In fact, if you drink too much water, it can make you dehydrated. Yeah.

So now I'm just going to snort my electrolytes. So I put I use those Dr. Nygma electrolytes with vitamin C complex or whatever it is. And I put a big thing in when I go work out and I drink that whole thing. And I'm like, I'm good for the day. I'm sure I should have more. I don't think so. No, it's enough. I mean, there's water and everything else we're drinking.

although I had a friend who was addicted to Diet Coke and she's like, it's liquid, that's water. No, no, no, that's disgusting. I was like, no, honey. Tell me about, okay, go back to the elderly conversation. So like in Japan, they revere their elders. The older you are, the more respect you get. And that makes total sense to me.

In Sweden, the elderly are cared for. In this country, especially because I'm taking care of two elderly women, my stepmother is, she can't move. And she has MSA, which is multiple systems atrophied. Everything is atrophied. So she, you know, you need to feed her and whatever. And I have her in a nursing home. But I'm lucky because I can afford it.

Insurance doesn't pay for a nice one. You know, and I pay for a woman to come and see her every day because she's way up in Massachusetts and she didn't want to move when my dad died. And I just think, like, this country doesn't take care of their elders. All the old people, unless you are financially okay, you're screwed. And the young people don't respect the elders at all. I know. I know. It's a really – I noticed that about myself.

And I was like, and then I was like, oh, maybe it's my own experience with my father because when he became so old, he was just kind of, you know, not really there and in a home. So we'd go and visit him and it was like talking to a big brick. And I was like, well, what's the point of this? Like, what's the point of even visiting? And my sister's like, it matters to touch and to talk like it matters, even though he doesn't know what's going on, really. Like, it's important for you to, like, give him loving words and stuff. And I was like, oh, OK, I didn't realize that. But I think I have to pay more attention to the elderly.

also my mom has middle stage dementia and there are days where it's brutal but then there are moments where she's really lucid and the clarity and the little snippets of wisdom I had to read because I would get angry because I didn't want to see her like that I would be like stop you know because it's your mom but then I decided okay this is where I can't change what's happening to her brain or her age right this is the natural progression of life but what I can change is my response to it so one of the things I started doing instead of saying because she punishes me for taking her car away she could not drive anymore and instead of me getting angry or saying well mom you would leave the car on in the garage for five hours while you were home you understand

you can't drive on instead I I go you know what you're that must be really hard when you're used to being independent your whole life and having that taken away I have such empathy for it and she just looked she goes oh thank you like it's it stopped the fighting and it stopped it made our moments together joyful rather than tense which they were in the beginning because it was a very difficult transition to go from an independent woman to a assisted living I mean she was mortified in her lucid moments but I tell you I am restructuring my brain on how to respond even my stepmother who hallucinates great shit she I mean I went to see her last week and she said oh your sister is such a bitch my sister lives in Los Angeles and I said and Vicky my

stepmother can't talk on the phone because she can't hear and she can't pick up the phone and well she was sitting right there in that chair this morning and told me I looked fat and old and I said oh Vicky she even if she thought that I pretty I'm pretty sure she wouldn't say that to you. And also she lives in California. Nope. She was sitting right there. And then I said, Vicki, think about it. Maybe you're projecting how you feel about yourself and you're putting it onto her. And she had this incredibly lucid moment. She goes, she calls me Julie. She goes, Julie, oh my God, you're right. It's how I feel. And I just thought like, this is great. This is great material for writing. This is great material for a life lesson. Like I'm not going to get angry at

her because she called my sister a bitch. I know she doesn't mean it. My sister certainly isn't a bitch. And my sister wasn't even there. This is all in her head. And it's theater. It's like I sit there and I watch her. I mean, she told me she was writing a book. I said, you are. I'm not going to tell you the title. It's great. You'll steal it. And I said, no, no, I'm good, Vic. I'm not going to steal it. But don't tell me if you don't want me. She goes, well, hold on. Let me ask Hal. And I thought Hal was like a nurse's aide or somebody. And she leans over sort of with her neck and then she looks at me she said Hal says it's okay and I go oh is Hal here and she goes of course like I'm an asshole and I said I'm so sorry I didn't see him and here's the title of

the book now how can this happen okay the title of the book is Placido Domingo sings in the furnished basement that's so funny my dad used to do that shit all the time he was writing books writing books writing books I wonder if that's something that comes when you're older and you have dementia that you think you're like whatever you wished you were right you become she loved placido domingo and she she was an interior designer she likes to redo a basement so maybe it's also her mind realizing it has to keep itself company you know so maybe she's keeping herself company so instead of me walking out of there feeling depressed which is how i used to feel all the time or i'd look up and be like jesus christ dad seriously you left me this because

it's a lot and I always feel guilty for not doing more. Instead, I drive back to the city laughing because I'm like, that was such great entertainment and I will use it one day. For sure, I'm going to write a book called Placido Domingo Sings in the furnished basement. I'll send you a copy of this book. But in a past life, I was a ghostwriter for people who work with Alzheimer's patients and dementia patients. And that's actually exactly what they recommend that you do is rather than saying, like, you know, if they're asking about their husband, like, oh, he died several years ago, then they go through this whole grief stage all over again. You just say, oh, I haven't seen him today. Change the subject. You know, it's this response in a different way.

Just go with it. Go with whatever fantasy they're having, right? Yeah, exactly. But I'll send you a book by Jo Huey. She was one of the most wonderful experts that we worked with and went through it with her own mother and developed all these amazing strategies. Oh, I didn't know that you did that. That's fascinating. Yeah. When you said previous life, I thought you were talking seriously about a previous life.

I'm like, well, this is pretty specific. I heard it. I heard it. At first I was like, are we going there? It's a bit much at the top of the show, no? Thank you. But I do think it's about what our responses are with anything, obviously. It's your response to it.

And the elderly need to be respected and loved. Yeah. They really do. And they're batty and crazy, some of them, and some of them aren't. Like, some of them are completely lucid and have the best advice to give. Like, my friend's dad just died, and she was telling me how he was, you know, they were sitting together. Obviously, that's a different situation when someone's passing. But they were sitting together, and she's like, yeah, you know, I had to change his diapers five days in a row.

And I'm like, I don't know that I would do that. She goes, of course you would do it, Chelsea. And I'm like, I don't know that I would. I would probably have somebody else do that. Like, I don't think I could handle changing my father's diaper. I don't think I could either. And I wish I could, but I don't think that that's—I would be dishonest to pretend that I think I could do it. Although you never know until you're—you know, I always say to my husband every time after I visit my stepmother,

because my mother's living a beautiful life, and she walks and still teaches at this place. Like, she's living a full life, but my stepmother's in a bed, you know, in a nursing home and can't move. And every time I come home, I say to him, if I cannot wipe my own ass, please just put a pillow over my head and kill me. and he he's very philosophical about he always goes you know you never know until you're in their shoes you just don't know maybe she actually is enjoying her life you know people are doting on her everyone's around her she doesn't have to lift a finger she certainly doesn't have to cook clean or make her bed and he goes you just don't know till you get there but i i do believe you don't know until you're there that i would clean somebody's shit up or if i would enjoy myself

if i would enjoy shitting my own pants is that what you're saying a i don't think you would enjoy shitting your own pants. But B, when you're at the point of shitting your own pants, I don't think you know. Right. But you could be happy is your argument. Or my my argument is not that I would ever be happy cleaning up someone's shit. I'd probably vomit a little bit. But I think if you love someone. Yeah. And you get over the first few times of it, it becomes listen, look what that's why nurses are my heroes. Yeah. They're my heroes. Look what they do. I know. And they do it without blinking. I know.

And the smells that are in the, it is. But you are right. I think if you do clean up someone's shit a couple times, it probably isn't so traumatizing the fourth or fifth time. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean. Good to know. The Jonas Brothers are running it back. We live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brothers hits that have defined a generation.

One incredible celebration. One unforgettable night. See the Jonas Brothers live at RBC Amphitheater, September 28th. Get tickets now at Ticketmaster.ca. Jonas Brothers, the burning up tour all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve

the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your

podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to

a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip i hope you listen to solita on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts let's switch topics i want to pivot okay because that was a lot of poop yeah and a lot of elderly talk but we're going to revere our elderly or at least i'm going to make a bigger effort to revere my elderly i need to get more elderly people in my life well you've on me. I know that you already mentioned that you've been moonlighting by listening to Julia Louis-Dreyfus's podcast, which we'll accept. But we also, I have intel that you were called into Sarah Silverman's podcast and left a message. I did. I did. I was given that private

friend's number and I did not use it because I felt like it was weird. I was like, I'm just a I'm a listener. I listen and I love her. And I just was listening to how anxious people are about the rise of anti-Semitism. It's been it's gone up 77 percent. I saw that in the last two years. And it is frightening. And it's just it's not just a Jewish problem. It's a universal problem. And I listen to podcasts all the time because I'm always in the kitchen by myself. And it's like I have my friends with me. And so I called in. I looked it up on the computer and then I left a message. and I just said, I am hearing everybody and I feel like I felt the same way and I took a step to do something about it rather than complain about it and I feel like you can reach out into your own community and do something

and what I decided to do was just educate because I think anti-Semitism is ignorance and if we educate our children because only 19 out of 50 states in our country teach about the Holocaust, so we need to start educating and it's been an incredible journey and it's tripled in size in two years, my program.

And I just feel like you can reach out into your own community and do something rather than sit by or sit back and feel afraid. And I had no idea how many people feel the same way because when I reached out to everyone I knew to tell them about this program, HESP, that I started with interns teaching middle and high school students, everyone responded. Everyone donated, whether it was $100 or $35,000.

It was unbelievable. And within three weeks, we have two more years set up already. Wow. With 10, instead of six interns, we have 10 now. So that'll reach 6,500 students. And how did you work to conceptualize that? I mean, did you do that with somebody else? I did it with the Museum of Jewish Heritage here in New York because I happened to know,

if you ever go to any of the Jewish museums across this country, nine out of 10 times, it's usually me touring. I give my voice to them and I do the tours. Oh, really? So when you put on the little... Yeah, Juliana's voice is all over the world. You never know, but you're always listening to Juliana. She does a lot of voiceovers. So it's one of the things I give because I feel so blessed to be in the position I'm in. So whenever they ask, I'm like, yeah, of course, I'll be the tour guide for the new exhibit.

Did you ever read that book that Jodi Picoult wrote called Small Great Things? Yeah, I think so. So remember, so that so Small Great Things is Martin Luther King said, you can't do big great things, but you can do small great things. That's where the title came from, which is how I feel about Hesp. I'm like, OK, well, and so I called him after I after I did this hosting for CBS. I didn't think I'd get paid. I mean, it was, of course, a labor of love, but they did. they paid me and I wouldn't I was like that's crazy you can't like let's put that money to

something so I called Jack Klieger and I said I want to start an education program help me here's the money I made from this thing which was more money than I thought I'd have so I gave him the hundred grand and I said let's start an education program so he and I sat down because they have amazing holocaust historians there so this program we do an eight-day intensive training on how to teach about the Holocaust. And then we send our interns out to all these schools, mostly in the outer boroughs, and they teach middle to high school students, all age appropriate. You know, we don't go lower than middle school because it's tough. The younger children don't need to know yet, but they do need to know in seventh and eighth grade.

And then after the one hour class, we bus them all, and all of this is free, we bus them to the museum. And so then they can see what they've just heard about and learned. And are these non-Jewish kids or Jewish kids also? The kids we're teaching? Uh-huh. Most of them are non-Jewish. There was a little boy in the Bronx, eighth grade, and this little boy said, wow, so six million Jews died in the Holocaust.

Are there any left? He didn't know. And he's, what are you in eighth grade, 12, 13 years old? So it's just lack of education. And I feel like if we teach our kids young enough, when they get old enough, because part of that book, Small Great Things, which I found quite remarkable, was to see the white supremacist side. She goes in there and she sees the white supremacist side. And most of the kids who are in these families were abandoned, had alcoholic parents who didn't give a shit about

them. And the white supremacist said, you'll have a family with us. And then they grow up with the hate learning. They don't know, but that's what they're taught. But they feel the love from these people. And that's then what they vomit out to the world. And we only have 15 million Jews left in this whole world. And the survivors are dying out. So part of this program, which we are slowly taking to the national stage, the idea is that this is a blueprint because it is working. And I've now partnered with the AJC, American Jewish Committee. So we're going to start with the eastern seaport. So we're going to spread it out to Connecticut, New Jersey, down to Washington, and then hopefully spread it across the country in rural places in Kentucky and Oklahoma and all

the places that never teach about. Honestly, it's just history itself. And if we don't teach about it, it will repeat itself. So the idea is never again. But I feel strongly for the children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren of Holocaust survivors because the survivors are dying out. You know, there's only a few left. It is now their responsibility to make sure that memory stays alive and to spread the word that this can never happen again and to share the stories that their grandparents and great-grandparents told them as children. And one of the reasons why I think my program is working is because we bring in these hip, young college and graduate students to teach, right? So high school students and middle school kids love a

young, hip teacher. I don't know if they're hip, but to them, they're young. I don't think anyone says hip anymore i know my we have to i said the word slay you slayed it the other day and my son my son looked at me and goes oh my god mom don't ever say that word so my hope is to get these great-grandchildren into these classrooms to talk about their great-grandparents yeah to tell the story because it's the holocaust deniers it's just so bizarre that they're just denying what has been archived for 80 years. But anyway, to say when they grow up, to say, no, no, that's not true. When they start hearing all that stuff, go, no, no, no, that's not true. But also to turn it into something else, which is in October, it will be the 80th anniversary

of the Great Danish Rescue. The Danes were incredible in World War II. They rescued 7,500 Jews by themselves in boats. And we have the boat at the museum. It's in Connecticut, Mystic, Connecticut right now. And it was children, families. Rescued them from where? Rescued them from the Nazis. From where? Denmark to Sweden. Oh, oh.

At midnight in boats, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And we're doing a great exhibit actually in October at the museum for it. But I was saying to the board there, because I want this to become a bigger and bigger program. I said, you know, what movies, the movies that are huge that kids go to are all about heroes. The Danes who rescued these Jews, who called them our brothers, our Danish brothers and sisters, you know, and we will protect you. They were heroes. So let's make this about being a hero, standing up to evil, as opposed to it becoming too political or too religious. Kids understand a hero. They love going to see Marvel movies, which is all about heroes. Let's make this about a heroic act to stand up to someone who's

anti-Semitic. So I don't know. We're trying and we're starting. How can our listeners learn more about HESP? HESP, which means H-E-S-P. I call my interns my Hespians. If you just go on to themuseumofjewishheritage.org and type in HESP, H-E-S-P, or the HESP program, you go right to it. Yeah. Sarah Silverman is going to be very interested in this. Does she know about it? She's amazing. And can I just say of all my Hollywood friends, like you and Sarah, when I sent out that email, not only responded right away, but donated right away. And I have to tell you, I was really touched. That was really touching because not a lot of Hollywood has responded oh that's really disappointing really disappointing but you guys did and and

all my you know i mean every parent at my kid's school and friends and family but you guys meet like we're the first ones to donate did you watch sarah's new special i haven't seen it yet you have to see her new special it's on hbo everybody needs to watch sarah's new special it's fucking so smart you know what's so great about i was at her house to watch it because she didn't want to watch it i was like we're watching it with a group of people like this is your special she hasn't had one in five years so we went over there and a bunch of people came over and we sat there and what's so special about Sarah is she's never talking about herself yeah she's writing jokes like old school comedians you know like some people some there's some people out there that

do that like Tig and Zach Galifianakis and a couple of others but most of us are just telling our stories right and Sarah is just writing jokes that are silly and brilliant at the same time You know, she can make a fart joke brilliant. I know. She's so good. Did she come to New York already with her show? I missed it. How did I miss that?

I don't know. She came to New York. She doesn't tour very often. She hates it. She's a homegirl. She and I couldn't be any more different. I know, but you know what I love about you guys? The two of you are so supportive of other comedians.

Because I always see it in the comedian world. You all support each other. And so many times, I feel like actors tear each other down. Sarah talks about you on her podcast all the time. You know that, don't you? Oh, no. No, I didn't know that. Oh, that's so cute.

Oh, no. She does. She talks about you. I get so excited. I don't know why I feel like the proud mama. I'm like, yeah, my girls love each other. But she does. She talks about you in a beautiful way.

And she's just like, she's so fucking, look at, because people will call in with, you know, saying like, I really want to be a comedian and I better, and she's, she's like, just, you got to just go do it. Look at my friend, Chelsea. She fucking, she's just on the road. I'm not like that. I can't do that. Chelsea just. The two of you support each other. I love it. I once said to her, we're on this app, you know, this video app where we're always talking. And I said to her, I mean, we couldn't be more different. Like I love adventure. I love to go

out. She wants, she's like, come over and we'll go for a hike. I'm like, I don't, Sarah, I hate hiking. Like I don't want to hike. I'm like, I'll come for the joint and the pool after. Skip the hike part. But we've gotten to a place in our friendship where we both, well, we've always been at this place kind of ever since we became friends where we know each other and we know we have very little in common but we managed to have a friendship you know what I mean yeah we don't we're so dissimilar but anyway Tianyang though sometimes that really works I know that does work it works for me always anyway we need to take a quick break and we'll be right back there's no shortcut for saving time but saving money is simple just combine your car and home

insurance with bel-air direct and save get a quote at bel-air direct.com when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club,

part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island to deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed, so obsessed.

From best-selling authors and your favorite BookTok creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle, I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be

a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. I have an update from Juliana's last appearance with us. Awesome. I don't know what's happening already. Yes. This was from one of our last episodes with you had a title that was about red flags. This is our red flags girl.

So Renee says, hi, Chelsea and Catherine and Juliana. Here's an update on the red flags saga. The day I listened to the episode, I had a calm chat with my partner about my concerns and need for change. I told him I was ready to walk away if he felt he didn't want to improve as an individual and a partner. He said he'd go to a counselor with no hesitations. Within a week, we were lucky enough to get in with a recommended counselor.

He speaks openly and honestly and even showed vulnerability. I'm so proud of him. We've been four times, and I feel like this has already changed the dynamics of our relationship. We've gained a different perspective of each other's history, learned more about ourselves, and have become more nurturing regarding each other's needs. We're completely honest with each other. No matter how sensitive the topic is, calmly discuss our thoughts and feelings while supporting one another.

I feel more secure now than I've ever been, and this has given my partner the opportunity to show me how much I mean to him. The man's heart is like an onion, so many layers, but the counselor and I are slowly learning how he tries to hide his strong emotions. Turns out he thinks and feels a whole lot more than he's letting on. Thanks, gals, for giving me the kick up the ass I needed. I feel at peace in my relationship now and in our future together. Today, we celebrate five years together and 100 days until we leave for our big trip.

Happy travels and keep your ears peeled for the Aussie accent in Mallorca next year. It could be us. With love, Renee. God, you know, this is going to tie into your episode with Elise. Lonan. And her book, which I'm reading right now. It's really heavy duty. It also ties into a book I read when I found out I was having a boy because I'm only like

no girls. So I didn't understand, like, how am I going to raise a boy to be a human, empathetic, feeling person? With a penis. And this book that I read called Raising Cain was by these two psychologists who deal with difficult teenage kids. And they said, you know, children, boys at a very young age are taught not to cry. Be a man. They're three. And they're on the playground.

And they're kids. And they're immediately taught to hide their feelings. And I think, and that's what Elise was talking about. and she talks about it in her book how men grow up to be afraid of their feelings because they were taught that from a very young age you're a boy don't cry it's such bullshit where girls when they cry are hugged so we grow up and we're emotional you know we're like we can be these emotional roller coasters but men swallow swallow swallow until they implode and so it takes therapy I'm so happy to hear that, that she got, well, she didn't seem to get him into therapy.

He did it willingly. It's probably a relief for him, right? Remind me what those red flags were. They'd been together a few years, but he'd like randomly broken up with her out of the blue a couple of times in there. And they were trying to make plans for their future. I remember this. Yeah.

They were going to go hiking or something. Right. They were going on like a mountain climbing trip around the world for like a year. and he was like keeping secrets from her. She felt really fishy about it. And we were like, these are huge red flags. Try therapy, but it's probably over with. And sounds like he's unburdening himself

and getting in touch with his emotions. There are so many men in my life that I wish would just, you know, so many of my friends, husbands, or it's so nice when a man is self-actualized and self-aware and is interested in doing the work on themselves. Who isn't like, I can't do that.

I can't I don't want to go to therapy so many men are like that it's like it's so it's so old-fashioned at this point I think it's because they're just afraid yeah they don't want to face it and also I think you know changing your habits is so difficult and when you have grown up a certain way and lived a certain kind of life it's very scary to have to undo that yes and that's what therapy does I always say to my husband I'm like oh so how is so-and-so with their new girlfriend and he's like oh we don't talk about that I was like how do you not talk about that like it would be the we mean my girlfriends that's what we talk about all the time yeah like I ask and you know but they don't

communicate the same way women do it's just a different way I was out with a gay guy friend the other night for dinner and he was talking to me about he's going through a difficult time and I he's like I went to therapy he's like I don't like it I don't like it and I said well I know I bet you don't because a lot of stuff comes up but it's necessary work because otherwise it will tap you on the shoulder when you least expect it and it's going to take you down there is no way to escape it, right? Like your trauma, whatever it is, you have to discuss it because you can't get away from it. And I said, if you can't go to the therapist, at least pursue, keep pursuing it until you find somebody. And he said, I got to be honest, all of this talk just makes me

uncomfortable. Like I don't want to talk about it. And he revealed to me that he had been molested when he was younger. So it's such a deep programming. It's run so deep. Anyway, on that note. Our first caller, I thought would be a good question for Juliana, since you're a New Yorker and you are familiar with what life is like when you're all living on top of each other in a big city. In the beautiful, sunny New York smoke-free sky day. Well, Canada, I mean. I know. Chelsea sent me a picture. It looks like the apocalypse. Stephanie says, Dear Chelsea, my husband and I bought a condo a few years ago and our building has four units so pretty small all of the neighbors were fine when we first moved in but a few years ago the daughter of someone who lives in a nearby

unit not the person who owns the unit lives there but his daughter got to move in for free with her husband and the husband is awful she goes on to talk about how the husband moved her laundry one time and it escalated into a screaming match and he told her to go fuck herself he screams at his wife on a regular basis but she hasn't called the police she says living next to this guy gives me extreme anxiety and i absolutely hate it my husband wants to confront him but i don't think that would end well for him or us there's other stuff about how he's complained about their dog even though his dogs bark all the time he's complaining about another neighbor who has a daycare but it's not very loud so she says my question is what should we do about this asshole and stephanie is here

with us oh oh hi stephanie hi stephanie hi i'm sorry that you're dealing with all of that what a nightmare yeah it's not exactly ideal especially since we had a baby seven months ago so to be doing that on top of having a baby is a lot can i ask you something are your are the walls thin can you hear him can you you can they're super thin oh i don't want to hear him but like i can't help it. Yeah. God. Yeah. This is, I mean, this is New York. This is the, you know, the big problem with New York. I think you're right. You and your husband not to say anything. Cause it sounds like he's a little unhinged and I think you need to be careful, but you know, I have this motto I live by, which is kill them with kindness. What if you go out and buy some cookies and leave them with

a note. Hope your day gets better every day. Maybe just keep leaving sweet things and kill him with kindness. Stop doing my resting bitch face. Well, because, because it's just going to make you more and more angry and it's going to make him more and more. And it looks like he's looking for a fight. Yeah. Yeah. If he's screaming, right. I didn't quite understand the laundry thing. He moved your laundry and screamed at you. What happened with the laundry? He, so we have one washer and one dryer and he accused me of stopping his dryer so that his clothes were like soaking wet which is I wouldn't even think to do that nobody would hey by the way nobody fucking would yeah I had this like dumb look on my face as he's yelling and screaming at me and I think that

pissed him off even more but I genuinely like had no idea what the hell he was talking about Yeah, it sounds like he's rearing for a fight. And I think the best way to quash that is to not give him one. Yeah, I think that is actually very, very sound advice. None that I would ever give you. And I am on Juliana's team right now. I think that's great because people like that, you're right there. And they're so unhinged that they have a whole narrative going in their mind about what they

think is happening. And if you just keep showing like at some point, the levy has to break with kindness Yes, because you can't argue by yourself. It's so true. And I just know this from being, you know, I'm an actress, and I'm very passionate about things. And sometimes I like a good argument. And I married a guy who does not like to fight ever.

And I realize, I'll say, you know what, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, oh, I hear you, honey. I hear you. That will never happen again. I have nowhere to go. It's over. You know what I mean? And of course, we've been together 17 years. So now I'm so appreciative of it because it's such a better state of mind to be in. It's like, oh, I don't need to keep this going. We can just have a peaceful, lovely day. So I have learned from that. Not giving ammunition gives them nowhere to go.

and eventually he's going to realize that he can't he sounds like an angry guy if he's yelling at his wife too you hear that or girlfriend whatever yeah but it sounds like he's looking for a fight and so if he can't take it out on her he's going to take it out on you or your husband or whatever but just smile you know and if if he says oh your dog was barking you just be like oh i heard yours barking too. I know crazy New York, right? You know, kill him with kindness because also it'll make you feel better. Like my objective here is I want you to feel better. I don't really care about him. It'll make you feel better. And you're just taking the high road and he's not going to know what to do with himself. Yeah. One of my girlfriends says, you know, if somebody is like

that, they're yelling at you and there's nothing to do about it. You can just say, okay, well, well, what else? And you just, whatever they yell at you, you say, okay, what else? And eventually they do. They just run out of steam. That's a good one. I like this, all this advice. I love this. I love this. But more importantly, what Juliana said, how it's going to make you feel better. Like I decided a couple of years ago, and I have reminders too, like whenever something is not going my way or not the way I want it to go, I just have to overcome it with my attitude to have a positive attitude and when you do that it is infectious to other people people feel your vibe and they pick up on it and it's obviously not going to happen right away but it's going to

make your mental state so much more like at a higher frequency instead of letting him drag you down you're pulling him up you know what i mean by that and also everybody in your building by looking at it and going at it from juliana's angle is kind of genius it's kind of the best way to treat him because he's a child yes yep that's that when he confronted me about the laundry thing and was screaming at me and he like was screaming at me but like walking away with his back face to me and i told him to grow up because he looked like a toddler having a temper tantrum and he told me to go fuck myself so he didn't like that you know oh god but it says it's also you know that feeling you get when you this happened to me recently i talked about my plane ride where i had to confront

these two racists but you know that feeling you get in your heart where you're arguing with a stranger like you can't that is the most unpleasant feeling and you want to get to the opposite of what that feeling is it's also unpredictable like it's one thing to argue with a friend or a boyfriend or a husband because you know them yes but when it's a stranger you actually don't know how they're going to react and the state of our world right now i just i always say to my kid not that he's a chill kid but i'm always like you never know who has a gun just walk away yeah Yeah. You know, road rage, when people have road rage.

I'm always like, so what is this going to get me if I flip the finger? A bullet in my head, maybe? I just don't want to deal. It's not worth it. It's just not worth it. Kill him with kindness. Maybe that'll spread on. Who knows?

I bet you it will. I bet you you'll infect him. You'll infect his family. Like, if you just keep it up and be consistent about it. I know it's not your responsibility, but why not? You know, why not just be, why not take this on as an experiment? you know for like human behavior and you may need to practice some breathing when you when you want to scream and he's or you hear him well like i'm actually i'm a chill person so i would rather

kill him with kind like that's actually more up my alley it's not like me to like be a bitch and ignore people like that but bacon brownies i don't know what else to do i'm also really shy so the ignoring him is also easier but yeah yeah that's all good advice i think there's some people in life who just wake up in the morning looking for a fight and those are toxic people you don't need that and he's already too close to you guys in the apartment next door so put the distance and draw your circle right that buddhist thing here's my circle you can't come in it i'm putting my boundary up and here are your cookies and here are your cookies this is my circle and here are your cookies they're outside of my fucking circle now eat one and shut up asshole oh my god good

luck thank you so much bye bye well i'm retiring and you're gonna take over because i was just sitting there watching you falling more in love with you i was like oh juliana i would never even thought of that oh i was like who's gonna deal with this asshole am i gonna have to go down there the jonas brothers are running it back we live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest jonas brother hits that have defined a generation one incredible celebration one unforgettable night see the jonas brothers live at rbc amphitheater september 28th get tickets now at ticketmaster.ca Jonas Brothers, the Burn It Up Tour, all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself

because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive

to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, our next caller has, I think, a very interesting issue. Her name is Rita. Dear Chelsea, I'm a 33-year-old married mother of two. I've always been an incredibly independent and self-sufficient person. I worked my ass off to buy my first house at age 23 and since then

worked to continue to build my career and succeed financially while also doing 90% of the childcare and household tasks. From a young age, I knew I had no interest in getting married. I thought if I ever did decide I wanted kids, I would adopt on my own or use a sperm donor. However, I was 25 when I met my now husband and got swept up in love and societal norms and happily married him and completely ignored everything I'd previously known to be true about myself. Now I'm in this marriage with a man who is emotionally unavailable and I feel completely alone. I look at my kids and my life and I know without a doubt that I could do it all without him. But what do I do? I think I'd be happier alone. But how do I know that isn't just the

grass is always greener mentality i hate that i hold most of the work and responsibility but then have to answer to a man for everything i do do i blow up my whole life and my kids lives for the selfish reason that i just no longer want to deal with a man i keep daydreaming about taking my kids and leaving everything behind please help kindly rita wow hi rita oh rita's in her car rita's we have Juliana Margulies as our guest today here for you. Hi, Rita. Oh, wow. So nice to meet you guys. Hi. Hi. Are you pulled over? Are you stopped somewhere? I am. Catherine knows I'm always driving. What do you do? What is your career? I'm a therapist. You are? Yeah. Chelsea, you want to take this one? I mean, I have a million things. Let's talk about your relationship first. Have

you ever suggested going to therapy? Is he completely against that? Or is he open to that? I have suggested it. He wanted to go on his own. So that was fine. But then he went one time and then wouldn't go back. Kind of said, like, he thought one time was enough. And then he was done with it. People hate sitting in discomfort. I know. I know. Yeah. And he won't talk to me. So I think that's, that was the reason I suggested it. And I, he won't connect or discuss things with me. So I thought, okay, well, you need to talk to somebody. And have you expressed how you feel to him as well as you can? Yeah, I think the challenge is, you know, we just have the same conversation over and over

and over again. And then we never get anywhere. Okay. How many children do you have? Two. Two. And how old are they? two and five. Oh boy. Can I ask you this? Have you fallen out of love with him? I think I've fallen out of like, I don't really like him as a person right now, but love him as a husband and a father, if that makes sense. Yeah, totally. It's actually, I think it's very clear. I mean, I think it's really hard not to like the person you're married to harder than not loving them. Honestly. It's so interesting

because we're multitaskers women are just naturally multitaskers you know we know how to do things and get things done you know they what's the saying uh give a busy woman a task and it'll get done is that the saying something like that right give a busy woman that's pretty is that a saying ask a busy woman a favor and it'll get done because because they know how to schedule it like women are like oh and then i have to do that and that and that and that like women are very, we're multitaskers by nature. But I would never, because your children are so young, I would never say just get up and go. But I also would never say stay in something where you're going to resent your children ultimately because you stayed there for them, right? Your children

will end up hating you for the fact that you stayed in a loveless marriage. But from what you're saying, there's love there. But I think, have you ever said to him, honey, I'm at a place where I'm thinking of getting up and going, the only thing that'll work here is honesty. No, I haven't. See his reaction. Maybe he doesn't know how bad it is. It sounds like he doesn't know.

No, of course he doesn't. They don't know how bad it is until it's too late. That's what happens in all these marriages. The men do not want to see, they don't want to face it. And of course, it's so funny that you said that my girlfriend went to therapy once and she's like, yeah, the therapist told us we didn't need to come back.

I go, oh, really? Is that what she said? You fucking liar. like that is that is she's like yeah she didn't think we needed to see her again I'm like oh my god talk about not wanting to face your issues but let's talk about in a more practical sense are you abled financially if you were to decide to to leave right there are some steps to take before obviously you you do get up and leave but if you wanted to leave what would that look like oh gosh I mean financially I think it would be fine family it would I said this to Catherine

like it would kind of just blow everything up our families are all very close around us we see them all the time it's we depend on like family for different things and that's kind of my conundrum it's like everything else in my life is great except for him so do you blow up everything no for that not yet you can't blow it all up yet because you haven't tried first you haven't been fair to him by telling him you're at the end here until he knows exactly what's going on so you're making up your own narrative

and he's making up his own narrative but you're not on the same page and until you sit down with him and say honey I love you but you need to know what I'm feeling I'm feeling like grabbing these kids and getting the fuck out of here because I feel very alone

I don't want to do that But I'm letting you know, if this continues and we don't start talking and communicating and you start helping and we go to therapy together to discuss this, I'm gone. They understand that. But he doesn't know you're thinking of what you're thinking. He has no idea. And also the key sentence is to make sure you impress upon him how alone you feel. Because you shouldn't feel alone.

You know, you're in a marriage. What's the point of being in a marriage if you feel that way? So you do have to have a conversation with him. But on a more practical level, I just want to say a couple of things about you blowing up your family. You're not blowing up your family. You have to take care of yourself for the sake of your children. You need to be healthy. You need to be happy.

And you need to be fulfilled to raise healthy, happy children. That's what is the most important thing. And worrying about what everybody else's impact and the ripple effect that it's going to have on everyone else, When you're just protecting yourself, it's not like you're abusing someone or doing drugs or you're an addict, you know, and you're blowing something up. You're blowing something up in your mind because you're going to be taking care of yourself. That's not blowing everything up. People adjust and acclimate to things all day long. People are dealing with new situations in family dynamics every single day. And kids are resilient. Yes. And all these people, I stay together for the children. I stay together for the children. And your child's going to grow up and get in the same dynamic that you were in, that you modeled for them. So financially, if you're capable, you're free. You know what I mean? Like so many people don't have that. They don't have the financial freedom to leave. So I'm not saying to just get up and walk out the door. Yes, you should have a conversation with him. There needs to be more of a commitment than one therapy session. And you have to go to couples therapy. And if he has to go on his own, he has to go on his own. And if he's not willing to do that.

Then you go to the next step. Then you can leave. And then you can leave feeling good about your decision. And you should leave at that point. But I think you're sort of throwing the baby out with the bathwater because you're not, he's not on the same page as you yet. Once he knows, you owe it to yourself to tell him how you're feeling. You know what? You have nothing to lose because you're already out the door, right?

You have one foot out the door. You're already thinking of the consequences of what's going to happen when you leave. And he doesn't even know you're thinking of leaving. So you have nothing to lose by saying, I need to talk to you. You and I get a babysitter. Go out to dinner so no one can raise their voices in the restaurant. God, you're full of it today. I love it.

You've got such good stuff going. But it does help, you know, because you have the boundaries of a restaurant, right? and and say and and and be empathetic to him listen men are limited i'm not saying let him get away with anything i'm saying talk to him as if he knows absolutely nothing and say i've never been lonelier in my life i don't know if you've noticed i cannot bear feeling like 90 of the responsibilities of this family and our livelihood is on me i am fine to leave this marriage and go out on my own. I'll be fine. I'll take care of the kids fine. But if you want me and the kids in your life, you need to know what's going on. Then if he is just such a douchebag that he doesn't

even respond to that or thinks it's going to go away, and you need to say that to him, you can say, this isn't going away by the conversation ending. Because I often think in relationships, they're like, oh yeah, I sat through it. I nodded my head and now we're fine. No, this isn't going away we need to work on it tomorrow and the day after tomorrow and then if it doesn't work you wipe off your hands and you go I gave it my all and you look at your children you have boys girls a boy and a girl a boy and a girl what a great example to set for your children to say mommy wasn't happy it wasn't working daddy he's not happy either how can he be happy if he's with someone who's never felt lonelier I mean you've got to be deaf dumb and blind not to

take that in I don't think a lot of people are expecting to be happy quite frankly they think life is like going to work coming home drinking a beer going to sleep you know like they're not engaged in their life and you seem like somebody who is so like you can't give that gift away you know what I mean and just throw it throw it away and not live your life you have the potential to be in love in the way that you want to be in love with a man and he just has to be aware of that and you know sometimes people don't react in the moment but once they have a couple of days to think about it there is a different reaction so I would like I would be very vehement about starting therapy figuring out like finding a therapist that you guys can go start talking to and say like

that's the only way I'm willing to stay I think we have a lot to uncover and work together if you want to save this marriage and if you don't also that's okay right no problem like yes this is going to be disruptive. But if you don't, I can't, I'm not going to make you do anything. And you can say, I don't like you right now. I don't like you. I love you. But why am I not liking you? Why have you become complacent in our life? I'm not saying we should all live in some fluffy cloud where every day is like, oh, it's a blessing because it's hard. And raising two children is hard and working every day. It's hard. But if you don't have the other side of that, which is fun and laughter and enjoyment and great sex and you know then why stay in it yeah I think

you guys are bang on like I think he doesn't think that happiness is important like he kind of thinks like oh yeah this is life like this is the daily slog and like you just do it and it doesn't matter if we're friends or we have fun together we laugh together it's just like this is we just have to get through it and there maybe there will be better times ahead kind of thing that's really depressing yeah that is depressing but I think you're right I think a lot of people feel that way it's just a grind and they're just getting from one point I heard a couple the other day saying as soon as they have a two and a four-year-old and they're like as soon as they grow up then we're free again I'm like you're saying that when they're two and four why do you even have

fucking children right you know free again you're never going to be free from your children first of all so also there's a saying that my husband and I say to each other all the time give a woman in an errand and she'll get it done. No, which is happy parents, happy baby. And I really strongly believe that. And when we had our kid, we made sure one night a week, the two of us had dinner together no matter what, no matter what. I mean, I was like hunched over from a C-section and I was determined to have that date. I was like, we're going to go and have dinner, just the two of us and go away on little trips whenever we could, when we could get his parents to come and stay with the kid like you need to celebrate you because when those kids see happy parents

they feel secure and safe and happy believe me they feel what you're feeling they might not show it it seeps in and they feel the tension in the marriage yeah I think I almost like avoidant of date nights now because they're so uncomfortable and like we have nothing to talk about and it's not like a fun night out maybe start there yeah say to him when was the last time you took me out to dinner when was the last time you and I decided to go see a movie and hold hands start with the little things you can't do it all in one day but you've got to give it a chance and then to see to make sure you have nothing to feel guilty about nothing you are obviously a successful independent woman. That is awesome. He should worship you. But with that also makes a lot

of men, I, you know, I don't mean to sound like I'm man bashing, but a lot of men are insecure when they are with an independent, strong woman, you know, wait till, wait, wait till you get to 50 sister. You're going to be like, no, don't like that. Don't like that. Like the older you get, the more sure of yourself you are, you know, but I do believe that if you are true to yourself, you need to be true to him first so that you can live your truth and know that you did the right thing. And he might surprise you. You never know. And he might not, but you may as well find out. Yeah. And I think you should just change that framework that you have in your mind, blowing up your family, blowing up your family, change that to saving your family.

Yeah. You're saving your kids from a life of that and a cycle. We don't see what we're doing in our lives but there's intergenerational trauma for a reason like your kids will perpetuate that most likely not that it's like a cycle of abuse but it's a cycle of unhappiness why be unhappy there's you know we're only here for a short time you got to get after it girl like you need to get after it so get after your marriage and see what you can do there and if you can't figure it out then you have to get after it on your own live your life also you don't know what your family around you is thinking either you don't know you may leave and then your mom's like oh thank god

honey, I couldn't say anything because you were, you never know, you know, don't think other people are judging or saying anything. You don't live in their heads. You live in your head and your head's the only one you need to worry about. Like, can I ask you a question? And this is mostly just for our listeners. Cause I'm sure a lot of people are like, Oh, sounds like me. What is your life like when he gets home from work or when you get home from work at night? Like what is the communication like? There's zero communication. Like if we even say like, hello to each other that would be a special day and it's mostly because like the kids are just on top of me all the time like they just pick me over him every single time and so I can't like I

can't speak to him or have a conversation so then like we kind of just go our separate ways and I deal with the kids and he does whatever what does he do well he does work a lot so he often doesn't come home for dinner or bedtime so if he's there then he would like kind of hang around and have dinner with us or read the newspaper or whatever but if he's not there then I just go through the routine is he an old man at heart yeah at heart you don't think he's having an affair though do you I don't I think there's potential but it's almost it's it's kind of sad because I almost have had these thoughts before, like, oh, if he did, I wouldn't care because I'm just like that disconnected. I've been there. I've been there. I remember I was

with this guy. I had fantasies of coming home and catching him in bed with another woman so I could leave. But that's because I was too scared to leave. You know, you need to confront him with the truth. The truth ultimately will say, I know, but it will set you free. Hold on. If you give a busy woman an errand she'll get it done and then the truth will also set you free okay did everybody hear that oh you can read more about juliana's dysfunctional relationship in sunshine girl where she really talks about the ex after i read that book i had to find out who the ex was so i looked it up right away but anyway to you you are full of life yeah and you are vibrant you know what i mean just your fate you're like you are she's like yeah you want to go live life thank you

You're at the best. Yeah, I do. Can I ask how many years you've lived? How old are you? 33. I mean, you are like, yeah, you've got a whole other section ahead of you. A few sections, actually. And you shouldn't waste it for a minute on not celebrating who you are and and showing your kids that. Like, I just truly believe that you owe it to yourself and your children to be happy. have you confided to any of your family members no no nothing well now do any of them listen to your Chelsea that's why she used an alias oh okay and we won't be using her image yeah that's okay talk to him first have you talked to any of your friends about it or people who know who he is um just like little things but not to the full extent but that's why you feel so lonely honey I know yeah you're not sharing it that's why you're feeling so lonely But I also, you know, if you are going to stay with the person, you don't want everyone around you to hate them either. No, but everybody has problems in their marriages.

You know, it's not like people, everyone has to have a confidant. And it's going to be, it's going to lighten the load for you as well, getting it off your chest, so to speak. You want to confide in people. People are there for you that you don't realize. A lot of us want to, like, carry the burdens all by ourselves. And that's just not fair. You know, when you need somebody to lean on, I guarantee you there's plenty of people that would welcome that in your life. So open that channel, too.

You don't have to sit there and talk about how much, you know, how terrible he is. It's just that you feel alone and your marriage is definitely in a rut. You're not even communicating. He must feel that way. And I think you should tell him, listen, even if you were having an affair, I'm not sure that I would care at this point. That's a great point. Yeah. Tell him that.

See how that makes him feel. Yeah, I will. You need to talk to him. And then you need to go and live your life on your terms. But you're not alone. Go talk to, you must have girlfriends. You're so lovely. Go talk to your girlfriends.

I do have girlfriends. Talk to them because it helps to get perspective. For sure. For sure. Don't carry it alone. And then check in with us, okay, in a few months and let us know what you're doing. If you guys got into therapy,

if you're planning on leaving, what your plan is. But know that financial freedom is probably the most important ingredient in this equation. you know, because that that means that you can leave if you want. And a lot of people don't have that privilege. OK, thank you guys so much. It was so nice speaking with you. It was a pleasure. Good luck. Yeah. Good luck. You can do this. You've got this. Go do it. Thank you. Be brave. You got it. Good luck. Bye. Bye. Thanks, girls. Bye. OK, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and wrap up with Juliana Margulies. There's no shortcut for saving

time. But saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. but these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,

welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it.

It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's nothing worse than feeling alone in a relationship. I know. My friend said this the other day. she was saying well she said it pretty publicly I heard Gwyneth say on Gwyneth Paltrow was talking about well I mean you don't need the Paltrow but go on okay she was on Call Her Daddy this Alexandra Cooper podcast and she was saying how she felt very alone in her marriage to Chris

Martin and I thought how sad you know how sad to feel alone in a marriage you know you grow up we are fed all of this bullshit yeah i mean you have a very healthy marriage you're one of my girlfriends that is in a normal healthy relationship and you want to spend your birthday with him so there you go um but you grow up being fed this idea that we're going to meet prince charming and that we're going to fall madly in love and all of these and we're going to have kids and it's going to just be one big rainbow after another and it's like well that's ridiculous and i don't know why we're being spoon-fed that it's just not realistic at all and it doesn't take into account life right and it was interesting because when she was talking about in her letter

when she was like I never wanted kids I never wanted a husband I'm independent I'm you know she's a career woman she's got and then she fell in love right and in those love like when you're all in love and then the babies come and then the fucking hard work comes and the sleepless nights and the exhaustion not to put people off but the truth is it's not easy it's just not it's easier you're, you know, I got married at 40. I got pregnant at 40. I suggest everybody do that because I had lived and learned. The reason I'm in a good marriage is because I was in terrible relationships for years and I vowed rather be alone than be with an asshole. And by the time I met my husband, I was like, I don't do this. I don't do that. Not to say I'm not flexible, but.

But you also make better decisions as you get older because of our experience. So the longer you can prolong getting married or having a child the better but i do think the biggest issue and and this is something that happens i think with much younger you know she's 33 and she's worried about the families what the outside families are going to think when you get to my age you don't give a fuck exactly i'm like you're not you're not yeah in my shoes you're not in my bed so you know it's so silly to consider other people really at all when you're dealing with a breakup you know unless they're in your it's just so silly because it's like that's not what it's about right juliana i'm going to see you again in about an hour yeah we have an early dinner before our

theater date and so fun i love doing your show thank you for the sagacious advice today you were amazing you really really were just blowing me away i didn't even know what to say i just love a girlfriend who knows to say sagacious can we just start there yeah let's end there turns me on a little bit. Well, now you're a lesbian. Thank you, honey. Thank you for having me. I'll be back. Goodbye, everybody. Bye. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at chelseahandler.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life

exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive listen to the survivor files with elizabeth smart on the i heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts did you hear the new episode of the hey jonas podcast we are at d23 so we'll see who stops by the cast of frozen stopped by kristin bell josh gad and adina menzel i auditioned for frozen what for kristoff they said okay what are you going to be singing today i said i don't know that must have been why you didn't get it

Plus, John Stamos, Hayden Christensen from Star Wars, and more. And I guess I can share that, uh... No way. Listen to the latest episode of Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus,

or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Thank you.