Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Love Ya with Dylan Mulvaney

Episode Date: May 4, 2023

Actress and activist Dylan Mulvaney joins Chelsea in-studio to talk about first kisses, learning by doing, and the whirlwind year she’s had after coming out as trans.  Then: A formerly lonely kid struggles to keep up with all of her adult relationships. A twenty-something’s mother has kept his identity secret from her own husband. And an army officer finds dating to be her biggest battle yet.   * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Bell. Connection is everything. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Each week, we talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. Everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show.

We've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman, Adam Scott, Danny McBride, Ben Stiller, and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to season four, everybody. This is season four of Dear Chelsea. Thank you for helping make us a sweet success. Okay. Hello, Catherine.

Hi, Chelsea. Hi. What's, oh my God, season four. So many things have happened. I know. I feel like these little communities are forming. People are reaching out to each other. I can't tell you how many times somebody will hear someone call in and they contact me and

they'll be like, listen, I have the perfect solution for them or I can connect them with someone who can help them. And so I pass their little email along and it's just really wonderful. I wish Bernice could call in my dog. I wish she could call in because I want to know what's on her mind. All I know is, all I know is, I love her ever since Burt passed away, slash got put down, only because it was the end of the road, not because I wanted to get rid of him. Can you imagine if he pissed me off and I just put him down?

Anyway, Bernice has been a sweetheart, just the sweetest thing. Last night, she was in bed. I usually have to force her up into my bed, which I had to stop doing because she had this really wicked cough. And I say wicked because I'm from Boston, the Boston area. But she had this really wicked cough. And I was like, God, is she getting like secondhand smoke from all my joints? And then I was like, is she smoking her own joints?

And then I sent her to the doctor and they kept giving her cough medicine and cough medicine and cough pills. And I was like, it's not a cough. It's deeper than that. So then we took her to another vet and they found out that she has a collapsed trachea, which they kind of intimated. And Carla, my assistant, kind of tried to make it like it was my fault for picking her up her whole life. And I told Carla to just take it down a notch and shut the front door because I don't pick her up by her fucking throat, first of all. Secondly, so now when she goes up the doggy stairs, I put a leash on her. I guide her up, you know, to trap her like a lobster.

But now last night, and this has been happening, when I come back from my tour weekends because, you know, I've been on my tour, I come back and she comes I guide her up the steps and she doesn't go down now oh she woke up like three times last night and she was like I was like I put the light on so she could see the steps so she could go down you know to her doggy bed but then she just looked at me circled back around dug her feet in and went back to sleep so she's been sleeping with me through the night which is I've never ever had this experience when Bert was alive and you know she again like any marginalized woman she has been marginalized and since bird is gone and he required so much attention and cuteness and neediness they get like mad at you they get i think mimsy's like still

mad at me me specifically for getting these two puppies like she has not forgiven me and i won't i was i was like oh i gotta get another puppy because i like to have two yeah but i'm gonna wait until the fall a because that's irresponsible because i'm gonna be traveling a lot during the summer and b i want this time alone with my daughter now i understand it it's true like i definitely feel i have a lot of like mother's guilt of i'm not spending enough time with mimsy and now that the puppies are like the squeaky wheels in my face all of the time so i'm working on that like taking her for extra walks giving her extra love which she like also sometimes doesn't want because she's like i just want to like snuggle you i don't want you to snuggle me back

she's very that oh really yeah she like wants to be like between your legs but like she won't be in your front nook. She won't be spooned. She doesn't have it. Front nook. Oh my God. She can't be in your front nook, everybody. Translation, under your arm, everyone. Exactly. You didn't see Catherine's gesticulation, so to understand exactly what that meant. Yeah. But I appreciate the one-on-one time, and she's so sweet, Bernice, and I just love her so much, and I'm just so grateful that I have dogs. In other non-canine news, I got these glasses, these progressive glasses. I got about six pair made, three sunglasses and three regular glasses. And the guy explained to me that the top part is for to see distance. The middle part is to see

intermediate. I'm like, what the fuck is intermediate? And the bottom part is for a close up. But when I sit on a plane, if I look down the print on the book, because I like to read on my plane rides. Yeah. I have to hold my head in a certain way so that it makes the print readable. Yeah. And I don't like these. And a lot of people warned me about these. And I'm going to take them all back and have them i want bifocals is what i want yeah just two not three i don't need three compartments and by the way he was like oh i put a prescription on the top i go there is no prescription on the top i've had lasik and he said no there's a light prescription and i'm like i don't think that there is so i mean i guess ophthalmologists are right up there with

veterinarians in my book yeah they don't seem to have a real concrete answer to anything everything's vague why would you need intermediate seeing like between distance and short-sighted why do you need to see another subset there are famously have only been two for a very long time yeah so i guess the i guess people don't like the line in the bifocal i don't give a shit though i mean i'm gonna be how old am i 48 i mean at certain point i just have to give up yeah brad had that happen once where he went to a new optometrist and this guy was like no no i know your real prescription All of the doctors you've been seeing for the last 15 years are wrong. That's like when you get your bras fitted, you know?

Someone's like, oh, these are the bras. This is going to be the bra that fits you. And it is for the first 20 minutes. And then after you wear it, you're like, no, my tits look like just cones. Yeah, yeah. I hate that 40s look where my tits look pointy. Yeah, and you just get stabbed in weird spots, and it's no good. I don't know about bra fitting, but definitely I've been wearing glasses since like third grade,

and this doctor was like, oh, hey, you know what? your prescription let your eyes do the work let your eyes work for it and then he gave me this prescription that was less so everything was blurry and i had to like squint at everything that doesn't make any fucking sense yeah work for what and then also you know my favorite book uh letting go by david hawkings in it he talks about letting go of the fact that you can't see and just not wearing glasses and that his vision miraculously came back to him so i tried that for about a month. That's the only section of the book. I'm like, listen, buddy, I don't know what kind of magic you're working. You guys are just like bootstrapping your eyesight. My cornea is

just going to repair itself because I've decided to let go. If you believe enough, it will. But I am in a great meditation zone. Yes. Yeah. I'm really feeling my meditations lately. I've been doing my Topra app and I do these courses, but sometimes you don't really feel it. You just feel like you're sitting there thinking but I'm really able to like stop my thoughts and I'm like going to this like place like this light place it's very relaxed and now I'm craving it yeah I mean this has been I don't know how many years I've been meditating probably like four or five now but it's been great but uh I'm in a zone right now and I'm liking it a lot do you what's it called when you can like cast your spirit somewhere else that's what I feel like is that what you're doing

Like I'm not in my body. Astral projection? Yes. Astral projection. Does that involve my asshole? Yes, yes. That's exactly what it is. Astral projection.

Well, that's what I think I'm doing anyway. Who knows if that's what I'm doing, but it feels like I'm not in my body. Like I'm in some light-filled atmosphere with my mom and my brother. They're always with me, so that's fun. I love that. You can visit them anytime. I picture my mom like a little nymph flying around, like a little sphinx. A sphinx or a nymph?

A fairy. A fairy. It's like that Greek mythology thing, like when they fly around. A sprite. Yeah, a sprite. That's what I think of. I like a sprite. And Chelsea, you're about to be traveling a bunch.

And I have just announced new stand-up dates for my Little Big Bitch Tour, guys. I announced 25 new cities. These are probably a lot of the cities people have been mentioning in the comments. I start out in East Hampton. I go to New York, D.C., Durham, North Carolina, L.A., Phoenix, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Chicago, Madison, Portland, to name just some. I will be performing at the Kennedy Center, everybody. That's in D.C., October 6th.

I'm super psyched to be performing there. There are more. You can go to ChelseaHandler.com. I am on tour. I have dates coming up for the next three months and then more dates coming up in the fall. So those have all been announced. They're on my Instagram page.

Or you can go to ChelseaHandler.com. Thank you. Our first guest of season four is someone who has been getting a ton of attention because she has been very loud and proud about her transition into girlhood. And I am loving it up and I'm loving her Instagram. So please welcome Dylan Mulvaney. Hi, Dylan Mulvaney in person and looking beautiful as ever. Thank you, Chelsea Handler. So excited to finally meet you. Oh, my God. I got to tell you, this is a full circle moment. I grew up when I was about 13, 14 years old, this gay boy pre-transition. I had a friend

group called the Harlots, and it was me and a bunch of girls, bad bitches. And we used to pass your books around, and that's how we learned about sex. And so I texted them all. It had been a while since I've talked with them, but I said, you're never going to believe who I'm going to see today. So I just really, it's a very full circle moment. Oh, well, I'm so glad to hear that. Dylan has gained a lot of notoriety and popularity on her TikTok series, Becoming a Girl. Or is it Being a Girl? Days of Girlhood. Days of Girlhood, sorry.

We just hit day 365 a few weeks ago. Yes, and you had a big celebration. I did a big show, musical, baby. I'm Broadway. I know. We had singing, dancing, and acting. Oh, my God. Talk about a full circle moment.

Yes. So I want to ask you so many questions, but let's just start about gaining the confidence and the self-assuredness to follow your pursuit of becoming the real person that you wanted to be. Absolutely. When I was four years old, I came to my mom and I said, Mom, I think I'm a girl. And we grew up very Catholic, very conservative. Where'd you grow up? The outskirts of San Diego and a little town called Alpine. And I was a boy in a dance studio at age three, only boy there dancing. But I came to my mom and I said this, and she said,

well, God doesn't make mistakes. And this was the year 2000. And so there really weren't many resources at all, except the only transness we got to see was a sex worker on NCIS that had been hurt. We hadn't seen trans people experiencing success or happiness. I don't resent my family or even myself for not allowing me to become this woman that I am now because this was all part of the journey. And finally, you know, those gender thoughts, I pushed them away because when I was starting to discover my sexuality, which is a different thing than gender, I thought that being gay was at the end of the world. I thought really it doesn't, you know, it can't get any worse. And And so transness wasn't even allowed to be in my mind.

And so I came out as gay at 14. But when you said to your mother that you were four, when you were four, you said, I feel like a girl. And she just was like, God doesn't make any mistakes. And that was it. We did some, you know, I went to some therapy and again, a very different time. So I'm not resentful at all. Right.

But it was then at the pandemic, I was touring with a Broadway musical called The Book of Mormon. And ironic. It's wild. but I was spent my whole life you know doing theater playing these male roles and I there was no room even in that industry to be trans and so once the pandemic hit it was the first time that I didn't even have to see myself playing a part I was like who is Dylan really without theater and religion and all these things that had been put on me and I was a really feminine

little boy growing up. And I felt like I stripped parts of myself away for so many years that I'm now finding again. And I think that's been the most beautiful part is getting to finally give into those feelings and those desires and those outfits and whatever it might be that brings me euphoria. But during the pandemic, I was like, okay, let's reopen that question of gender. and I identified as non-binary for about a year went by they them pronouns and it still was not where I was supposed to be and I think it was so daunting making that jump from being a man to then that trans woman title scared the shit out of me and it's so funny I don't usually curse but I'm around you and I kind of feel like I want to let loose a little bit it happens but you have that

influence I thought you know non-binary moment of my life was kind of this little cloud that I got to land on for a hot second and it was not the end of my my journey that's when I I finally accepted I actually I started hormones while I was non-binary to you know feminize my body and and then I took on that she pronoun and it feels so good oh I'm so happy to hear that you followed you were able to pursue what you felt was necessary to be a complete human being. And I think what people's resistance is to transgender people, to the whole LGBTQIA community, is that it's different from what they know. And anything that's different than what anybody knows scares them for some reason, because it's the same reason people want to hold on to power and don't want to

give equality to everybody, because they're scared of what they may lose. And their lack of understanding instead of looking at it as a huge growth opportunity to be like oh my god tell me everything I want to understand you better right is it doesn't come at the front well and they you know a lot of people don't have a Dylan in their lives to ask questions and I think that's kind of why I got online too was because I wanted to be that friend for people I wanted to show that I'm not some monster and it's sad that there are still so many people that are trying to use this really beautiful journey against me and twisting my words and taking things out of context. But at the end of the day, I'm happier than I ever have been because I can't imagine going back to

that other person. It breaks my heart to think about. Yeah, I would imagine so. So how do you reconcile that? When you look back at your former life before you became a woman, how do you frame that time you know I try to actually think about it in a very positive I always do glass half full everything that has happened before transition that was supposed to happen that was part of my story I was learning things and and now I feel like now it's all icing on the cake because I actually got to the cake finally but I just I don't want to ever resent you know there there are sometimes the mindset of like every day before, you know, I, I came out was, was absolutely horrible, but no, I had some good times in my life, but I just hadn't entered my full potential

at all. You know, when you're locked into yourself, right. And you're like, Oh, this is, this is who I am. This feels right. My intuition has never been more alive within myself. So I'm just, I, I'm trying to stay strong. Yeah. Yeah. And you will be strong. You're already strong. Thank you. You know, there's always going to be bumps in the road and things will happen that will feel like you're you're getting off course. But it's up to you to remain steadfast and true to who you are and to follow your truth, because your truth is unlike anyone else's. And people have a easy time forgetting that. I want to talk a little bit about what it takes to actually transition, because that is another argument for the reason that people

wouldn't be doing it. It's not easy. It's not easy to transition. It's not easy to change your sex that you were born with or to feel like you're not the person that you were meant to be. So talk to me a little bit about that. Well, I really get upset when people say, you know, she woke up one day and just decided she wanted to be a girl. Like this was not a decision. This was who every fiber of my being. And I put in a lot of freaking effort and a lot of, you know, mental gymnastics, a lot of therapy, a lot of soul searching to do this. And it is something that I don't take lightly. I think that this journey that I'm on, you know, going on hormones, those were all huge decisions that I had to make and very private ones. And while, you know, every transition looks

completely different. You know, there are trans people that aren't on hormones or that may choose not to get surgeries. But for those of us who need those things for our dysphoria, we need access to them and that we can't be vilified for needing those things. Right. And you recently had facial feminization, right? Oh, babe. It's good, right? Yeah. Beautiful. And my my biggest thing about sharing that process online was that I didn't want people to see it as plastic surgery. I needed them to know that this is like an affirming surgery that can change lives and possibly save lives. And it was so wild to look in the mirror and see what I imagined for the, you know, for the first time to, to kind of, it was just a soften of my features. I didn't, I didn't look

totally different, but a very emotional experience. And I do think like there's power in sharing a story so that people can get like a little look in. Absolutely. I mean, that's what you're doing is freeing other people. When you share your story, you're giving license to other people to share their stories and to follow their dreams. How many surgeries have you had to have thus far? So it's funny, like there's really no rule book to how transitions go.

And again, it's like you can, you know, sort of pick and choose what it is based on your euphoria and dysphoria. So, you know, that was because I'm so in the public eye right now, I knew that that was one of the first things that I wanted to do since I am so on display and I was feeling so self-conscious and very upset about my features. and but now I'm actually think I'm going to take a little bit of a step back about talking about my physical transition because first of all that word influencer scares the shit out of me because I don't want to influence anyone to do anything but I don't want other trans people especially young trans people to feel like they have to do something in order to be trans and so while I do have other plans and other surgeries that I'd like I haven't decided how I'm going to necessarily

share those because I don't want to set any sort of precedent. That's nice and responsible, I'm sure. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally

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Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like,

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I want to know how it made you feel to get all this love online. Oh, my God. And, I mean, you're a viral, you know, superstar on Instagram and TikTok, if you don't follow her already. It's at Dylan Mulvaney. And, hey, you're killing it on TikTok right now, too. I'm digging the PSAs. They're great.

I've got another one coming up that involves you. So tell us about what that welcoming and affirmation must feel like because after going through something and experiencing something for so long and taking the bull by its horns and saying, fuck it, this is my life. I'm going to do what I'm going to do, you know, and having people applaud that. Well, I still don't really get social media, to be honest. It's so crazy how fast things can travel there. And I think normally, like, I was a musical theater kid. I just wanted I still want to be an actress. And normally you like book a movie and you have like two years before it comes out. So you kind of have some preparation of like, OK, this might happen, you know. But I mean, I think I had a million followers in like 17 days and no one can really like get you ready for that. And I think also I was essentially sharing the most vulnerable parts of my life. So there's kind of a double whammy of putting yourself out there and having your transness

on display. And if there was, if another trans person came to me right now and said, oh, should I start from day one and showcase? I'd say, oh, babe, I don't know about that just because of all of the turmoil that's come from it. But I will say the amount of love and the fact that on day one, I said, this is who I am. And I hadn't had any surgery.

I was still very much finding my femininity and figuring out what really makes me a woman versus the misogyny that I still am working through that was placed on me. But I was supported by women saying, we stand by you. We see you as a woman. We're here for you on this journey. And now I have people in the comments being like, we've been here since day one, day seven, day nine. And that gives me hope. And I hope that it shows other trans people that are still in the closet that they can, when they're ready and on their own time, that they can feel allowed to come out and to experience life in a beautiful way. Yeah, I think one of the most offensive things to hear is people who are talking about, you know, trans people saying, oh, it's trendy.

It's trendy. Are we supposed to let children change their sex before they're ready? Because what if they change their mind back? And it's such a miseducation and an unknowing. Like I had a friend say to me, oh, I know there are eight-year-old kids that are getting transgender surgery without their parents. And I'm like, that's simply not true. First of all, there is no eight-year-old that could go to the fucking doctor and become

Drive themselves there. You can't do that at eight. It's just so dumb. But it's insane that that notion of like trendiness because transness has existed like since the beginning of time and truly like in certain cultures, the two spirits or transness was actually like seen as almost the most holy or the most reverent or the most respected. And it's so sad to watch as, you know, the years go by, it get sort of picked apart due to capitalism and all of these things that have essentially let go of the fact that this is who we are. And also, just in a scientific aspect, from a scientific perspective, there is a spectrum of male. What male, like Arnold Schwarzenegger, is at one end of the spectrum, okay? And then Pamela Anderson is at the other end of the spectrum.

That's a boy. That's a girl. And then there's 50 million things in between. Yes, yes. And it's biological as well. It's not just an idea. This has been going on since people were born. Like there's this is not new. This is not trendy. We just happen to have a vocabulary about it in this modern era.

It makes me very sad, too, when they go, oh, she's doing this to be to get famous or, you know, when I came out, I was assumed that I would not work for a very long time. You know, it's not like trans people are out here, you know, thriving. We're just trying to survive. And I am my experience online that, you know, in my success is like one one millionth of what it actually is to be trans. The transphobia I experience is so different than that of a black trans woman who, you know, these are as much as I am going through it and I have, you know, a lot of people that maybe don't care for me, there's still so much privilege in what in my experience compared to

other trans peoples. And I need to make sure that we're taking care of the whole community and that this isn't, you know, some this there's nothing about this that's a gimmick. This is my truth. It's such an odd remark to make that they think that I would do this for any reason. But because it's such a difficult decision. Yeah. Well, and there is I think there is something scary to people who are scared of of transness or you know the lgbtq community there's something scary about someone like you who chooses despite that adversity to show up bubbling over with joy and to bring positivity and even though it is difficult to still show off your joy well and that's the thing i i and i'll say also and you i think you'll get me on this comedy for me is my

way in. And so a lot of the times I will make light of sometimes these really dark situations because it's my coping mechanism. It always has been. I like making people laugh. I like making people smile. I was doing a lot of standup about a year ago and I realized it was very healing for me. I love to overshare. I think you can relate. But I tried to find the funny and transness and it's really, it's a slippery slope because then things get taken out of context or it gets used against you and I think I now am trying to take a step back and and another thing that happens too in your trans is you immediately get labeled as like an activist and that you know how to speak on all of these things and that you have the answers but I'm a baby trans you know I'm still

so new to my journey that I've made a lot of missteps I've spoken out of turn and the the most important thing is that you know hopefully not all trans people have to be these like activists have to have every single answer. You know, I have so much left to learn. That's a good point that you bring up. As an activist, also, you're speaking up for things that you care about. It doesn't mean that you know the answer to every in and out of the subject or the topic. Obviously, we are interested in educating ourselves on whatever topic we're being an ally to or an ally for. Well, that's, you know, I'm a musical theater major. So, I mean, that's my way in. I'm like,

God, can I sing about it? Can I? And that's what I did on day 365. I was like, oh, let me show people what I actually want to do, which was perform. And I used my story to kind of put it into a show. And now going forward, I think that if I was to create a show with a trans character or to write a touring show, those are different forms of activism in itself. And I actually think that through scripted and through comedy that we can learn from. Absolutely. I mean, And that's how we learn about everything in this world. It's almost easier when it's not a real human that it's like, oh, there's a little bit of mystery there. Yeah, absolutely.

I wonder if for folks who aren't really clear about euphoria and dysphoria, can you talk to us a little bit about that? OK, so I remember like early on in my transition, like those first moments of actually purchasing an item of clothing that I've always, you know, craved wearing or even just like a man opening the door and calling me ma'am. I know that that's so gender stereotype, but it was like, oh, my God. And funny enough, during the pandemic, wearing those masks, it was kind of nice because I still have a little I'm trying to get rid of this beard hair and she's really putting up a fight. But. Hey, by the way, I'm trying to deal with my beard hair, too. You know, that's what I heard. I have those blonde. Well, I have different hair, but the blonde fuzzies, I shave my face all the time. They come through. We'll do it together. And I I just think they're euphoria. Truly, it are those little moments that sometimes it isn't this like outward, like, oh, my God.

But it's like that little spark in you that's like, oh, yes. And then dysphoria is truly, it feels like a darkness that kind of washes over you and is those moments of being misgendered. Or I remember before transitioning having to put on a male outfit for an audition or, you know, just like that conforming that made me so sad. And that's what I think a lot of these haters don't realize is that the mental effects of misgendering in the media, it breaks my heart because there are people calling me a man and I don't – right now I feel like I'm not even processing any of it because I'm so scared to do that deep dive and to know what the effects are. And I'll say these haters, they really wore me down for a second. But then they came for you, Chels. And I thought, oh, my God, this is my favorite woman in the entire world. And the same people that are coming for me are coming for her. And it actually something clicked. and I went, oh my God, maybe what they're saying isn't true because I'm now watching them take out someone I love and I know her truth and I stand by her and I love her. So maybe the same goes for me

because it's almost easier when it's not about you and it's about someone you love or enjoy. And I know we hadn't met yet, but I actually was able to see in through your experience with them. Oh, wow, I love that. Yeah, I mean, I was saying this to you a little bit before we started. But you know, the haters is kind of like, it's just like you have a big pile of stuff,

there's always going to be there's going to be some negative stuff, right? You know, you have to learn how to focus on the positive and all the people that you're impacting. And eventually, it just rolls right off your back. And we both know how to have a good time. Exactly. And that's what you know, I don't think they want to see that. No, no, no, no. I mean, for Republican men to tell me that I'm unhappy I'm like who said I was happy you guys are assuming I'm happy because of the way I'm living yeah I'm not going I'm happy I'm happy I don't have to say that because I fucking am happy I don't have to scream it from the rooftops amen I every time I do now something they've given me more motivation just to fuck with them because they can't handle a woman who knows

a that can take care of a lot of people around her that doesn't need a man to do that and doesn't need a child to do that. You're not going to keep me down ever. And I think that's how anyone who's ever receiving that has to look at it. It's like, look at the source. You know what I mean? Look at the ignorance and look at the idea for me personally, the idea that a man knows what's best for me is preposterous. Especially a man that doesn't actually know you. No, but no one who knows me knows what's best for me except for me and my sister maybe Simone and Shoshana but I don't even know I know what's best for me yeah you know what I mean just like you know what's best for you and like every individual listening to this podcast knows what's best for you there's

an inner knowing that we all have and it doesn't matter if you were born a boy or born a girl you have an intuition that comes with your person and that's what you have to listen to and on that note We should take some callers, I think. We're going to take a break so I can calm the fuck down. Okay. The Jonas Brothers are running it back. We live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brothers hits

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And we're back. We're back with Dylan and Chelsea. well our first question is just an email Kayla says dear Chelsea rejection has always been my biggest fear as a kid I had almost no friends I was teased for my looks my old soul personality was misunderstood now I'm in my mid-30s and I have more friends than I can handle don't get me wrong I feel grateful to have so many girlfriends that I can count on and grow with but I feel pretty overwhelmed with maintaining all of these relationships in a meaningful way. Nowadays, I seem to mostly get asked to go to all the big events such as weddings, birthdays, and baby showers, and I'm often told you're the busiest person I know, so I'm less likely to get asked

to just have coffee. It's true though, my schedule feels so full and I'm drained by balancing all these relationships. Besides friends, my husband has a large family and mine is quite sizable too. It's a lot of personal relationships to maintain. Chelsea, you seem like the kind of person who has a ton of friends. How do you keep up with everyone? I never feel like I'm being a good enough friend. Should I try to not be so hard on myself or work on more practical ways to keep in touch with a mom? Thanks so much, Kayla. Oh, well, that's a good problem to have, Kayla. I would say I'll go first and then Dylan, you can chime in anytime you want. Okay. I would say that yes, that is a good problem to have. I would say to be respectful to all of the people that are in

your life. And the way I show respect personally is I respond to every text and email that I get. I always respond. It might take a minute, but especially text, I find that that is a more personal kind of way. So if I've forgotten an email or two, that's probably true. But texting wise, I try to get back to every single person who leaves me a text message. And even if it's the news isn't good, like I can't make it, it's nice to just show that kind of, they used to say deference in school when I wouldn't respect my teachers they said you had to show deference and I was like fuck off but deference is just showing somebody respect and saying like you know creating boundaries creates respect that is true when you say no to things because you need time

alone or you you know you have other plans or whatever that's all fine you don't have to overextend yourself that's not doing anybody any favors because you grow resentful of the person that you're overextending yourself for and you grow resentful of not spending enough time on yourself. So I would just say to anybody, like, I mean, it seems like it's more of a personal problem from your writing.

Like you feel that you need to spend all this time with all these people. I would say dial that back a little bit, give yourself some room to breathe and reassess yourself. Give yourself six weeks and say, okay, I'm gonna do this for six weeks and see how I feel at the end of the six weeks.

I'm gonna respond to anyone who asks me, but I'm not gonna make plans with every single person who asks me, I'm going to say, actually, I have a really busy week. Or if you're not, I mean, it was kind of a mixed message because she's saying she's getting invited to big things rather than the little things. If those little interactions are important for you and studies show that it is very important to socialize, it isn't very important to be around other people, but it's also very important to regroup. Like I need an inordinate amount of time to be by myself in order for me to perform on stage on a regular basis during a tour. I need

to be alone for many hours a day. I have to conserve my fucking energy because I don't have the energy and the stamina that I had when I was in my 20s and whatever. Because you're so present with people. And that's what I'll say. I nearly died when you said I respond to every text message because my phone is like, we're in the hundreds, babe. And I was feeling so guilty. I'm the number one people pleaser. But then I realized my goal is that when I actually am with someone in person, or if I'm on a phone call, I'm going to be a hundred percent present. And I'm not, I don't want to do the half-assed sort of like, oh, I'm going to hang out with a bunch of people, but I'm going to be, you know, in a bunch of different places in my head or working or no, I want to

show up. And when I do get those moments, which maybe are more rare now with, with friends or loved ones, I want to be there fully. And I've actually now set the precedent that, do you know Glennon Doyle? Yeah. She talked about, she doesn't really text anymore. She thinks that it's, you're basically always at the beck and call of someone else. And so now all my friends know to call me and we'll have these great, you know, phone calls and chats. And, and that has like filled me up in a new way. And you know what, that's great that you say that because I'm the opposite. I would prefer a text rather than a phone call. Don't fucking call me. But, and, but I think what you said is very prescient because it's, it's very important. That's what I said to my girlfriend

once she got mad at me for canceling. And I said, listen, I can't, I'm canceling because I'm not going to be able to be present. I'm exhausted. I'm tired. I feel like shit. I want to be present. And that is the most important gift you can give somebody is your time and presence. And how funny too, the people that I want to hang out with the most are usually the ones that are like, oh, I'm not going to message her because she's busy. But then it's the people that, you know, they're all, they're hounding you to hang out and you're like, wait, no, I want to go see these other people. So I think it's also really reaching out to the people that you want to be around that you want to go on that coffee date with and then saying no when it when it feels

right and also measuring how you feel after your interactions with people like actually taking in are you getting a lot out of this relationship or are you being present for someone going through a difficult time those are two ends of the spectrum but they also like I like to be there I like emotional triage when somebody needs something and a friend needs something then I like to be there for them I excel at that but I'm not going to be doing that for two years in a row You know what I mean? I want to help you get out of it. And then there's other friends who don't necessarily need you who are bringing something and filling your cup up. So it's good to measure the time that you're spending with people because if you're exhausting yourself on three people that

are fair weather friends and then you've lost all your energy for the real friend, like you have to kind of measure who brings what into your life and what is the value and how much of a priority each friend is. Communicating with someone how you like to be communicated with, which you both said I think is awesome. So for example, maybe it's, sorry, I can't come to your birthday party, but let's grab coffee and set a date, you know, so that you get that one-on-one time with someone who does fill your cup. Yeah, that's a nice idea. And we're fucked because you like to text and I like to call. So I just have to hang out in person.

So we'll just have to Marco Polo. We'll meet each other in the middle. Do you call or do you FaceTime? Oh, I like to call because I like, what if I'm peeing or, you know, I don't, that's a lot. FaceTiming is a lot. Right. Well, FaceTiming is a lot. I consider that to be an assault. You know what I mean? Like, you can't just fucking FaceTime me. But most of my people know that. Nobody does that. Talking on the phone, I have to say, is sexier than FaceTiming. There's a little mystery. Yes. Like, staring at somebody for two hours is just not a fun—

Oh, God. Or if there's, like, you know, a man that you're texting and all of a sudden it goes beep, beep, beep, beep. And you're like, oh, shit. You know, and you're, like, putting on some eyeliner really fast. See how long the— One minute. You just throw your phone in the toilet. You're like, oh, my God. Well, Kayla, let us know how it goes. Yeah, Kelly, hopefully we gave you some advice. Yeah, yeah. Well, our first caller today is Dane.

And this one is a bit of a gut punch, so fair warning. OK. Dear Chelsea, I'm writing in today because I'm a trans guy. And my mom has been ashamed of me ever since I came out as trans to her almost a decade ago. She didn't understand then and still doesn't. We didn't speak for almost nine months because she didn't respect my name change and my pronouns. When I would tell her it hurt my feelings that she didn't even try to use my preferred name or pronouns, she'd lecture me for hours about how selfish I was or I needed to grow up

and understand that the real world would never be as understanding as she was. She's a proud conservative and conspiracy theorist and takes every opportunity to spread her ignorance. I'm at my wit's end. She's currently engaged to a guy who's even more transphobic than she is. He supposedly loves me, but here's the thing, he doesn't know I'm trans. If he knew, I think he'd lose it. He saw a picture of me pre-transition early in their relationship and asked her about it. Instead of the truth, she told him that she had a daughter who was killed in a drug-driving accident.

When I had top surgery several years ago, she made up excuses and lied to him about why she was coming over to check on me. She's my only remaining family. I've always taken care of her since I was a young child. I was the parent for both of us. She sees me as her son now, but still posts transphobic things online constantly. She isn't supportive of my long-term transition goals, and if I so much as cough, she blames it on my hormone therapy. As I get older and work through all my trauma and therapy, I'm starting to wonder how much I should keep trying with her. I don't want to lose my only family, but I also feel so jaded from everything she's put me through.

What should I do? Dane. Hi, Dane. Dane. Hi. Oh, my God. This is Dylan Mulvaney. She's our guest today.

So you have another set of years. Nice to meet you. First of all, I just want to, I wish I could give you like the biggest hug ever. I'm trans as well. And I know that our journeys are very different, but I can relate on multiple levels. You know, I come from a very conservative family as well. And I know how frustrating this might be. But I do believe people are capable of change.

And sometimes it it can take a long time. But I also what I worry about with your mom is it sounds like she loves you with almost like an asterisk of like what that means. You know, there's all of these layers of getting to that love that, you know, should just be so pure between a parent and a child with with no what's the word? unconditional it should be unconditional love between a mother and a child or between hopefully any two people but unfortunately that's not the world we live in but continue and i i'm just hoping that outside of this one person that is technically your biological family i just want you to have the most amazing chosen family around you and i want you to be surrounded with other trans people that love you and making sure that when those transphobic comments do come from someone like your mom, that they can be there to step up and say, that's not true. We know you and this is what we see. And I just, I don't want you to lose your favorite parts of

yourself because of that bond that you're trying so hard to keep together. Do you have any thoughts, Chels? Yeah, I would say that your mom is really toxic for you at this stage in your life. I also believe people change but her behavior posting anti-trans shit online when she knows that she has a son who's trans is just that's like hanging out with your own bully you know what I mean like I don't think that there's any benefit or change that's going to happen from continuing this relationship especially after the circumstances you mentioned in this letter your stepfather who she lied to about her son I mean what what what is that that's crazy yeah I mean that's that's very psychotic behavior and you can't pretend somebody died like that's psychotic yeah so

I think based on her behavior alone like I think you kind of owe it to yourself to create a lot of distance and enjoy the people that you have in your life that really love you I know this is your mother and then that's very difficult I've never had to like disassociate from my parents but I would say that it's not in your best interest to have her in your life yeah yeah I you know we've had periods in our relationship where we have gone months at a time without speaking and because of all the trauma that we've been through individually and together we always kind of end up coming back together and that in itself is really hard you know that what kind of trauma are you talking about are you talking about your transition are you talking about

other trauma other trauma okay like what really bad stuff you know that she's done and that was done to both of us throughout my childhood her childhood i see you know it's brutal trauma bonding is a real thing and especially when we're all each other has it makes it extra hard you know to kind of sever those ties and it makes it hard to when when there is that distance and that separation and then promises are made like, oh, we'll try or we won't talk about these things or we won't do this. And then those promises fade away and old habits come out. And then it's just like, oh, you haven't really changed. You're still the same toxic person and you just kind of wanted to Trojan horse your way back in. So it's hard. And I do believe people can change. I'm evidence

of that. I've changed a lot and I've grown and healed in a lot of really positive ways. You're amazing. Thank you. But it's hard to want the same thing for her, you know, to want her to heal and for her to grow in positive ways, but to not be able to force that and just to kind of have to bear the burden of that trauma and that weight and not walk together in the light. You know what I mean? Yeah. You said that you ended up taking care of her. And I want you to know that that was not your job and that a child should be a child and a parent should be the parent and that those roles that were placed on you are not normal. that wasn't healthy. And they've continued throughout your life, even though you're now also an adult. And I believe that your transness was probably one of the first times that you went against taking care of her because that was you taking care of yourself. And that scared the shit out of her. And that transphobia, it could have been anything, but it was your transness

that took precedent because that's who you are that was always who you've been and I think for her that that resentment towards your transness also comes from the fact that you were able to stand up to her and say this is who I am I'm playing by these rules and that's kind of one of the only times that you've you've done that because it was so important to you but you need to be able to do that in every area of your life and not just your gender identity because that is when she will actually see you as an equal and as an adult and someone that, you know, it's kind of sounds like maybe you should go cold turkey for a second and show her what it's like to experience her life without you because you bring so much light to it

that maybe she needs to be reminded just exactly how much light that is. If you do choose to keep a relationship with her at all, you got to unfollow the Facebook. You got to unfollow all the socials, mute, whatever you got to do. But, like, you don't need to see that. You don't need that popping up in your day. And give yourself boundaries as well because I know you live in different places. When you do go to visit, don't stay at her house. You need to stay nearby, somewhere else, so that when you need to retreat and go into your own space, you have the opportunity to do that.

Yeah. And creating boundaries. You need to create boundaries. Also, the fact that she has not told her husband that you are trans, that is, like, such a huge red flag of shame. Yeah. And you, there is nothing to be ashamed of, of being you. And it breaks my heart that she is so scared to even share that with another very important person in her life.

And so I think before that reunion can happen, I think that conversation needs to happen. And it might prolong that time apart and it might get even messier. But I don't think you can go forward in this relationship with that secret. and my god like you're her child at the end of the day that should take the cake I have a question have you had any separation from her like have you guys ever taken a time out from your relationship yeah like we've had periods of up to like almost a year of not speaking not seeing each other at all and then you kind of just revert back to where it started or back to your regular habits with each other you know over time it doesn't just go immediately back to like over super

you know super close take some time to get back there but yeah eventually we end up back you know two peas in a pod kind of thing we've never gotten like fully you know back to where we were like when we were when i was a kid but see you just almost said when we were kids that's how you think of her as a kid you know because that's how she is behaving probably and how you guys trauma bonded in the first place because you were both in a situation where you felt like you were being treated like children or you were acting like children when you were a child and she wasn't so trauma bonding is very very complicated and you do you have a therapist that you see yeah yeah yeah oh i you think i'm surviving without a therapist yeah do you have other trans people

in your life that are like lifting you up not closely you know i'm part of a few online groups that i reach out to occasionally for support for my transition goals but i'm not like close with any trans people. Really? Well, I'll be close to you. Please, by all means. I would love that because it's hard out there.

It is hard. Where are you? Where do you live? I'm in the Portland area. Okay. I was going to say, we should get you connected with Shane from season one.

Oh. Yes, yes. Oh, my gosh. Prison is not a joke, right? Yes. Yeah. We'll follow each other. Yeah, we have to connect you

with Shane, too. He transitions as well. And he didn't tell his family for like eight years. Yes, yes. That's the way to do it. Yeah, I think that's a very good goal for you also is to have a little bit more of a community for you. You know, take Dylan up on her offering and you guys can connect online and also we'll connect you with Shane. But, yeah, I think you need a time out from your mom.

And I think before you reintroduce her back into your life, then you're going to have to really set some clear boundaries for your own mental health. You know, don't follow her. You don't need to be exposed to any of that, what Catherine said. But also for her to be able to be in your life, she has to meet certain requirements. And that's up to you what those have to be. But I would suggest that one of them should be truthful to the person that she's marrying about the truth of your situation.

because any secret builds shame and it's unnecessary. Yeah, actually, you know, I finished reading this book, Healing the Shame that Binds You by John Bradshaw. And I really, I loved it. But I've been wanting a huge like reading cake lately. And I really enjoyed that book because it's all about toxic shame. And I sent it to my mom.

I was like, you should really read this. And she's like, oh yeah, I'll check it out. I don't know that she actually will. But if she does, maybe it'll teach her a few helpful lessons. Hey, you gave her a resource and now it's a two-way street and she can meet you halfway.

it's the least she could do. We'll see. Yeah. And then how does it feel to you when we say to take a break from your mother? How does that make you feel? I mean, it's something that I've done before and something that I'm fully aware is logical and reasonable and something that is good for me by all accounts. And will you let her know you're taking a break or you'll just phase out? It'll probably just phase out. I mean, she already senses distance between us, you know like she and that'll make her even try to cling harder because she she'll randomly guilt me about certain things when she senses that distance like yeah i know i haven't been the best mother and you know but you turned out so great despite me that kind of thing and

actions speak louder than words so yeah 100 i think it would benefit i'm always into writing a letter like even if it's a goodbye letter it's nice to write it whether you send it or not is up you and maybe this is something you can discuss further with your therapist but you should write a letter about how it feels for your mother to deny who you are oh i got you beat on that i don't mean to interrupt you but i sent her like an hour-long like video this is the last time we didn't speak for like six months oh really like a yeah an hour-long video like this is all the abuse that you put me through i'm tired of you like hating on me and other trans people and you know minorities and like all this shit that you post online i'm sick of it it was literally like an

hour-long video and her response to me was just i'm so tired of you you know hating on me just because of my political views i've walked on eggshells around you for the last five years you know it's not i think we just need a break from each other is basically what she said political views yeah it's like it's called human rights totally disregarded everything i said about you know, the abuse and the way she treats me and me being trans. She just disregarded all that. I was just like, sorry, my politics offend you. Let's take a break from each other. Yeah. Well, maybe it's not so accusatory or maybe it's not such an indictment of her. Maybe you can make it short and sweet and put it in writing. So it's not even you speaking. So she

can't be misinterpreted. Just saying how much I love you. You're my mother. You know, you gave birth to me. We've been through a lot together and now I have to get healthy and I can't do that when my true personhood is being denied by the person who gave birth to me and make it so simple and not make it about you did this you did this you do this it's about how you feel and why you have to move on and of course she may not accept that or think it's garbage or dismiss it but it's a nice way of ending or putting like a pin in something without having anything left unsaid or unspoken it's not mandatory but if you feel like doing something like that and writing something short and sweet that isn't nasty or harmful but it's about you and your growth it might be something

that sits better with her because she's obviously on the defense all the time maybe it could be like what you would love to have in a mom and in not how she's not those things but like I think now it's you aren't a child anymore and so you get to redefine this relationship of what does a parent mean to you now? And these are the things that, you know, is it I need a cheerleader? I need someone who's we call each other every week just to check in or, you know, getting very specific about like what that relationship that you want to look like. And that could be far away. But I just I really feel for you. I personally have actually been through something a little similar as of recently. I want to tell you that it's going to be OK. And I'm just I want you to have

all the trans people in your life I think trans masculine people also to to make sure that you feel so supported that you know your magic and that you are so loved thank you I really appreciate that yeah you are loved so like know that you what you did is really really brave like you're a brave person and you don't have to subject yourself to people that make you feel less than it's just not your responsibility you're not responsible for your mother you're not responsible for anything but your own decency and like humanness you know what I mean and as long as you're following your gut and you're following your instinct and you're being good to people around you and being loving and caring of others you there's nothing wrong with that that's a beautiful beautiful thing

and the road that you got here like it sounds like you've been through a lot of trauma you don't deserve any more trauma yeah I definitely don't want anymore it's like that Yeah. Well, Dane, thank you so much for sharing with us. I know this is really, really tough stuff. Yeah. We're sending you a lot of love, honey bunny. Yeah. When I was writing into you guys, I was just thinking of the Martha Stewart episode where she's like, Chelsea, you got some really heavy shit on here. Yeah. Meanwhile, Martha was not fucking ready for that. I was like, all right, Martha, this might not be the right person to have people calling in since she can't relate to anybody normal. If she listens to this,

she's just like, ah. No, she won't be listening to this. I promise you. She's baking. Yeah, she's baked. In more ways than one. Yeah, she's baked. Oh, poor Martha. Okay, well, Dane, keep in touch with us, okay? If you need anything ever again, let us know. Thank you guys so much.

Take care. Okay, bye. Nice to meet you. Love you. The idea of all these people, these parents, I don't understand how parents can disown their own child. I, as a non-parent, wouldn't be able to disown a human being that came to me and said, I'm different than what we thought, you know, like, or whatever. Like, it doesn't even have to be related to me.

So I don't understand this, like, I guess I'm just in a bubble. I am in a bubble. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month.

Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable

I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to ProSociety on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita,

trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself.

So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, we have one last caller, and I thought this was a good question because it sort of has less to do with actually dating and more to do with how other people perceive us

as we move through the world after talking to her. But Marie says, Dear Chelsea, I am a 31-year-old woman currently living in North Carolina. I realized in my late 20s that I was not attracted to men after years of suppressing my attraction to women. I've been on several dates with women who I feel attracted to. The dates have gone well. When I ask that person out again, I'm always hit with,

oh, well, I'm not looking to date anyone currently, or I just didn't feel anything romantic with you. If this happened once or twice, I'd be able to brush it off. However, this has happened after every single date I've had or every connection I make on dating apps. I appreciate the honesty from these women, and I appreciate their communication versus being ghosted, but I feel like maybe I'm undateable. Do you have any advice for me or other people currently struggling with the challenges of dating in the modern world? Marie. Hi, Marie.

Hi, Marie. Hi, Chelsea. Hi. Hi. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing? We're good.

This is Dylan Milvaney. She's our special guest today. so say hello to Dylan. Hi Dylan. Nice to meet you Marie. Nice to meet you. So just to rewind just to recap you said as as you started becoming interested in women it's been more difficult to date. Yeah so I was definitely struggling with figuring out who I was attracted to because I was dating men at the time and I just absolutely was not attracted to them going out on these dates. So I started talking to a few friends and one of my friends had suggested you know maybe maybe you're actually you know attracted to women you should try dating some women just trying to you know figure out who

you are of course it was also COVID lockdowns and then with the challenges of working a pretty busy job and then starting school I just wasn't really focused on my dating life until probably around the end of 2022 and then you know starting 2023 is when I really kind of started seriously getting back into the you know the dating game with the past like couple dates I've went on I felt like the connection was really great through text messaging I thought the dates were going really well we had a lot of good chemistry but afterwards when I'd go to ask these women out again I'd be told like hey you know I'm not really feeling a connection here you know hey I'm not really thinking about dating at this time. And I'm not sure if I'm doing something unintentionally or

subconsciously where I'm putting off like a vibe of like, Hey, maybe, you know, I'm not interested in this person or anything like that. I'm just not sure if I'm potentially could be doing something that would be causing that. How many dates were you, did you go on? I've been on three so far. I've asked out probably a total of five people to the people I've asked out, you know, they told me like, Hey, I'm not looking at the date right now. Or, Hey, I'm sorry. I just, I just started in a relationship with somebody else. And then the three actual physical dates I've been on, I've been ghosted by one person. And the other person is like, Hey, you know, not really feeling a spark here. And then the last one was really the kind of the one that hurt the most because I did

feel probably the most chemistry with this individual. The date went really well and I'm not much of a hugger, but she went to hug me at the end of the night and I, you know, I hugged her back. And I was really hoping that maybe, you know, she'd want to go out with me again. But I went to ask like a week later and she told me like, hey, no, sorry, I'm not interested in like dating at this time. Okay. Do you feel like something's happening on these dates? Do you feel like you have a decent sense of self-awareness is the question? Yeah, I do feel like I have a decent sense of self-awareness. I do feel that I'm a pretty competent individual. And I do try to be an active listener when I am going out with these people. So, you know, if they tell me

something, asking a follow-up question, you know, related to the conversation we've been having. I'm not sure if there's something subconsciously I could be doing that would be giving off that vibe, but I do feel like I'm pretty self-aware when I am on these dates. Okay. Well, what I would say is, first of all, you should relax your attitude about the whole thing, okay? Because life is about rejection. You're going to get rejected a ton of times. It's going to happen again. It's going to keep happening. You know what I mean? And then there are going to be people in between that you're going to date and that you're going to have, and it's going to be mutual. You need to look at this, just kind of change your perspective, I think will change the outcome a lot. I think you

should look at these things as more casual and be a little bit lighter. If you can figure out a way to really relax yourself before you go on these dates so that you're not coming off too strong or you're not coming off too rigid. I know you said you're not a hugger, like that can kind of send out a certain energy when people don't like to be hugged. When someone goes in for a hug and that person's not a hugger. You can feel it. And that can kind of be a chasm. Do you meditate at all? I've started to get into the meditation. I had downloaded the Calm app yesterday and I've been starting to get into that a little bit. Is that what you use, Calm? Well, I was just going to say it's the universe must have been tapping you on the shoulder because that's a good app.

And I wanted to know what city do you live in? Because I'm available. I'm kidding. The closest big city that I'm located to would be La... OK, I was just curious about what the lesbian scene is like out there, because with experience now being around some lesbians out here, they stick together. You know, we travel in packs. Well, I go both ways right now. But I will say that maybe if you can insert yourself into just being friends with some gals who like gals in your area, that way, you know, people can get to know you or these potential women can see you. they can experience you get your personality get at your quirks they'll learn that you maybe aren't a hugger but love that about you and and then something could potentially happen more organically

whereas right now if you're meeting people online there's this precedent like oh we're here not to be friends we're here to potentially date and that's a lot of pressure whereas I think in the queer community so much of it happens in person it happens at you know a gay bar or a bonfire you know just that fun lively queer connection so I would almost take a detour from the dating and really focus on finding some amazing lesbian friends that can also help guide you to some other people hopefully nearby yeah I think that's that's really good advice and making it a numbers game so going on lots of first dates think of first dates as just like throwaways a little bit Think of it as practice.

Exactly. You don't have to look at a date like, oh, okay, I hope this is the one. You can look at it as like, what a great way to get to know how to do this better and how to relax yourself. So there's not so much pressure each time you go out. It's almost like if you overdate for a little bit, you get more comfortable with dating. Yeah. You know? And I know you have a really intense job and she's in the Army as well.

I was going to say, are you in the military? Yeah. So maybe, you know, not going on a date right after work where you have to bring that intensity, you know, maybe taking some time to breathe, to decompress, listen to some like nice music, move your body a little bit before you go on a date so you're just like feeling loose and free and like having a good time when you go out. I would say you come across as you have this kind of intense energy, which is a wonderful thing. But now it makes sense. Like you do need to decompress. You do need to meditate. You do need to relax so that you can – so you're not bringing your job to your dates with you, right?

I'm sure your job is a huge part of your life. But until you get to know somebody, that's not their responsibility. So, you know, you have to just – I think your job from here, from this phone call, your takeaway should be ways to really calm yourself so that you're walking into this with an energy of fun. Not, okay, I'm going to conquer this. You know what I mean? Like, I'm going to get my girlfriend. You should go in it as like experiential. Like, okay, this is going to be wonderful.

I'm going to learn about this person. And then I'm going to learn about this person. And it's not so methodical. It can be a more casual experience. And like what Dylan was saying, do you have a group of friends? Do you have a group of lesbians or any friends that are lesbians? Nobody really close by. But I did join like a meetup group where it was, you know, like a LGBT,

let's go on hikes on the weekend activities like that that I was thinking about like meeting up with some of those people on a you know weekend hike I'm obsessed with that and you already made that initial step and I'm someone I'll be honest with you I haven't even been kissed as a girl yet and I've never dated anyone seriously and I just think that we are going to find someone amazing and it probably might even happen in person because if these apps don't I don't feel like they're working for me it sounds like maybe you're trouble having some trouble too let's get in one of those groups and let's meet some hot people yeah that sounds great yeah it just takes one my best girlfriend was in a super similar position to you she had dated guys it wasn't

working out she decided to date women and she was so intimidated every time she'd go on a date that like she would call it off right afterward then she finally met someone she's like this is gonna be nothing it's just a friend thing she just came out too we're gonna hang out they made out for four hours and they're still together a year later. So it just takes that one, you know? Yeah. And treat everything a little bit more lightly. Like you were just smiling. You're beautiful. You have a beautiful smile. Enjoy yourself. It doesn't have to be serious. It can be fun. And so just focus on the aspects of fun and relaxation and being present. And it will be a lot easier for you. You know, you won't feel so rejected when something doesn't work out.

There's no reason to feel that way. There's 8 billion people in this world. You know, you're not going to hit it off with everybody and have sexual chemistry with everybody. That's kind of a natural selection sort of thing. So just try and take it down a notch in terms of your expectations and being so kind of rigid or regimented about them. Sure, sure. That's all great advice. I really appreciate it from everybody here.

And start that calm. You're going to see a difference in the way you feel. Five or ten minutes a day and you'll start to feel differently. I promise that. all right sounds good well thank you so much marie and marie good luck we hope you get some pootang soon thank you bye oh that was so cute i immediately when she started talking i'm like she the fucking army or what with this and the hair and the thing and i'm like oh my god when you said that i was gonna say do you work in the military completely when she first when we had our

pre-interview call she was in like her military garb and I was like wow I'm so afraid and intimidated right now it was like hot but intimidating but also imagine that balance like when you're doing that you're serving in the armed forces and then you're supposed to have like this casual encounter it doesn't you can't approach it the same way at all right no it's a total seesaw so yeah so that makes sense anyway okay well oh we're gonna wrap up right we'll take a break and we're gonna wrap up with Dylan Mulvaney the jonas brothers are running it back we live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest jonas brother hits that have defined a generation one incredible celebration one unforgettable night

see the jonas brothers live at rbc amphitheater september 28th get tickets now at ticketmaster.ca Jonas Brothers, the Burn It Up Tour, all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a

doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they are abducted stalked controlled and nearly silenced but these aren't stories about what's taken from them they're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus

or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people

and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself so whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip i hope you listen to solita on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

and we're back we're back we're back just a delight just an absolute delight having you here Dylan I loved you before I met you and I love you now and I just can't wait to see what's in store for you I'm so excited I do have one question for you before I leave so we just talked about how Miss Marie there doesn't have anyone I have yet to be kissed as a girl I wanted to know do you think it would be better for me to rip off the band-aid and just get it done or should I save it for someone special I'm always about ripping off the band-aid I think I just you know what it was, I needed to hear it from you. And so tonight I'm going to hit the town. I love it. I love it. Well, report back.

Will do. Thank you, Dylan. Thank you, everybody. See you next week. Love ya. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseepodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at chelseahandler.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first.

I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast

that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed.

Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport and Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Each week, we talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. Everyone

has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show we've had a lot of great guests like sarah sherman adam scott danny mcbride ben stiller and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us listen to hollywood handbook on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts this is an iheart podcast guaranteed human