Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Making An Escape Plan with Chelsea + Catherine

Episode Date: August 24, 2023

This week, Chelsea and Catherine discuss dealing with a mother-in-law who’s prone to waterworks, when you know if you’re going to like a book, and help an Airbnb guest find love with a much older man. Then: A thirty-something gets hoodwinked by a con-man - who lives in her building.  A friendship ends after a confrontation over an affair. And a sister is desperate to get her sibling out of an abusive marriage… but how? * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Thanks to Betterhelp for sponsoring our new segment, Calling In Backup, and to Courtney Cope, Licensed Marriage Family Therapist and Principal Clinical Operations Manager at BetterHelp. * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you hear the new episode of the Hey Jonas podcast? We are at D23, so we'll see who stops by.

The cast of Frozen stopped by. Kristen Bell, Josh Gad, and Idina Menzel. I auditioned for Frozen. What? For Kristoff. They said, okay, what are you going to be singing today? I said, I don't know. That must have been why you didn't get in.

Oh, you probably won. Plus, John Stamos, Hayden Christensen from Star Wars, and more. And I guess I can share that, uh... No way. Listen to the latest episode of Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good afternoon, everybody. I don't know why I say good afternoon.

Buenos tardes. Hi, Chelsea. Hi. What's happening? What's happening, Catherine? So much is happening on my end of things. I just can't even keep up. Okay.

I need a little bit of advice. I am finding that I am having such a hard time making a decision on stuff for my house. And I think it's because I just feel like I have to search the depth and breadth of the internet for every possible choice of something, whether it's like new dog crates for the dogs or a new sofa or whatever it is that I need next. I'm just having such a hard time with the limitless possibilities before I can make a decision. What do I do? Listen, when you make a decision, when you are decisive, I'm very decisive. I don't like really, I go to my design meetings for my new house and I am in and out of there in 40 minutes.

I pick tile. I pick, because listen, whatever you buy is going to make, you're going to forget about all the other options. That's true. And it's going to be fine. It's going to be the right one. And unless you make a huge mistake, which you can't with a doggy crate, it's not like you're picking out marble.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. You're not going to make a big mistake. So whenever you're indecisive, I always feel like just make a decision and then that decision becomes the right decision and commit to it.

Yeah. All of the decisions of the internet are really troubling to me. You're letting the internet run you. I am. And I need to run the internet. That's why I don't go online. That's actually for the best.

I don't have any Wi-Fi at my house, so I can't even look. I've been deleting Instagram. I just like during the week for the most part, I just have it deleted because if it's on my phone, Chelsea, I just pick it up and then I get lost. Oh, that's smart. How do you delete it? So you delete it and you take it down and then for the week? Yeah.

And so your Instagram is still there, but I just like have the app off of my phone. So like if I need to look at it to like look something up for work, I've got it on my iPad, but I don't have my iPad sitting next to me all of the time. What I find is even when I don't have it on there, without even thinking. I know. I do it all the time too. You just do it. Okay.

So you can delete it and then you get back your app. Like, okay, so I think that's smart. You should apply that to your shopping. Yeah. I think I need to set myself like a timer and be like, you can look for an hour and then whatever. But it's a doggy crate. Like what, what, what, what?

But it's like, it's a, it's a symptom of so many different things. It is a symptom, but then you're being run by that. You know what I mean? The internet is running you. Are you going to let that happen, Catherine? No, I'm not going to let it happen, Chelsea. We've added second shows. Second shows now to Portland, Los Angeles, the Pantages, Boston, Bokwang Center.

And I've added second shows, New York, Seattle, D.C. Go to ChelseaHandler.com. This tour has been the most fun. It's so fucking silly. Wait till you see me showing you how I masturbated when I was eight years old. Do you bring a ladle on stage? I don't bring the ladle on stage, but I demonstrate what I did for about a year of my life when I found out about my Pikachu and all of the pleasure it could offer me. Oh, and one city I

want to do a special shout out for is Long Island because we added a show at this. It's a little show. It's only a thousand seats called the Clubhouse in East Hampton. So I want to promote that in case anybody here is in the Hamptons over the summer because that is going to be a nice intimate show. Oh, that sounds so lovely. I love a small show. I do too when I do it. I mean, it's nice, you know, for your ego to have bigger crowds. So I like that as well. But I do like intimacy. Like I love when I warm my show up at comedy clubs, like that's always fun. You know, when you can talk to people like upfront, you know, when you're on a theater or in like an amphitheater or an arena, like you can't really talk to people. It's just like a wash of laughter.

Yeah. Because nobody else can see them. Right. And yeah. So there's a little bit more of like a barricade between you and the audience, if you will. Yes. I want to recommend that book, The Covenant of Water. Oh, yes. You were starting to read this. It's really, really transportive. It takes you to another place. It's mystical. It's beautiful. And it makes you just appreciate the world we live in and that people can write these stories that are so beautiful. I just finished reading Malibu Rising, which is by the same author of Daisy Jones and the Six, but I loved it. You just see her setting up all these different characters and all these different scenarios. And then like halfway through the book, she just starts knocking them down like

dominoes. And it's fantastic. It's a really fun read. It's an easy read. And it's nice before bedtime reading. I finished that book, Lucky You, which I think I recommended. That was a good book. That's worth reading. What was that about? That was about this woman, this Kenyan girl. She grows up with a very overbearing mother. And she lives with her like three aunts. And I don't know why I said aunts. Aunts is how I say it. And her grandmother. And she doesn't know anything about her father. She finds out something about her father later in life that her mother kept from her which is very disruptive to her because she kind of felt like nobody told her the truth then she gets accepted to barnard college in new york she moves there and she comes from africa

and then goes to the united states so the whole difference in racism and being african versus being african-american she has to kind of come up against and she has a couple of relationships and it's very beautiful too. It's fiction and it's a short book. And then she kind of, you know, how her family plays a role in that. Her mom really wants her to go do one specific thing, be a doctor, be a business person.

And she wants, has cravings to do other things. And it's just the story about a coming of age story and your, how you deal with your responsibility to your family versus your responsibility to yourself. I love that. I love that. Yeah. Okay.

So a few years ago, I decided not to waste my one precious life finishing books that I wasn't enjoying. What's your benchmark for that? Do you like always finish a book? Do you give a book like 50 or 100 pages? I like to give it 100 pages. I recently did put a book down. I won't say what it is because that's not nice.

But it was just chick lit. And I don't like that. I like a little bit more elevated. I want to be learning stuff. I need to be looking up words when I'm reading. I need to see words that I don't know the meaning of. And if it's historical, I will never not finish it because I feel like I owe that to society. I owe that to everybody to be as well educated and versed in every topic that I can.

Yeah. And to yourself, too. Yeah. Totally. You are a person who loves continuing education. Yes, I do. I do. I do.

Well, Chelsea, I have some updates. Speaking of continuing the conversation. Great. A, from way back in our Jamie Greenberg episode, she had— Shout out to Jamie. She listens every week. I love her so much. I know.

I haven't seen her in weeks, though. I'm going through withdrawals. I feel like she's the person that, like, every person who meets her is probably like, I could be besties with her. She's just so fun. By the way, I like your nails. You don't have the pointy ones now. No.

I like that. I'm flat. Yeah, I wish Jamie would do that. That's why I haven't seen her, actually, because of her nails. You're like, get out of here. I have a restraining order against her until she starts going au naturel again. I feel like I accidentally gave myself, like, 90s alien nails. No, I like them.

Okay. I like them. I mean, the pointy ones I find tricky. They are tricky to live with, I'll tell you that. How do you give a handjob like that? Very carefully. I like that you guys are still giving each other handjobs. No one's doing that.

It's true, though. I mean, I don't know. Catherine's husband is over in the other booth. He's making me blush. He's blushing. She's blushing. And I'm single, as usual. So A, from our Jamie Greenberg episode, she had sort of like self-medicated with self-help

and hadn't seen a therapist ever and was wondering how to start therapy as an adult, is how she had phrased it. This is a long overdue follow-up, but it took me a few months to get started with therapy, and I wanted to have a good number of sessions under my belt before sending this to know that I've truly committed. Since hearing the episode, I've started to meet with a therapist weekly. It has already been life-changing, and I cannot thank you both enough for all of your encouragement and giving me the push that I desperately needed. It's definitely been really, really hard, and I'm still feeling the growing pains of beginning therapy as an adult.

But being able to be completely honest and say things out loud to another person that have only ever been in my head for years has lifted such a weight from my chest and mind. I'm learning so much. Chelsea's words, specifically, be brave, and also when she said, do you want to be brave or do you want to be a pussy, have become my internal mantras when I'm feeling afraid or hesitant before a session or about bringing up a specific topic. P.S., my therapist gave me an audiobook to listen to after one of our first sessions, and within the first few minutes, the author quoted Dan Siegel, a little sign from the universe, I guess.

Thanks again, A. Oh, that's cute. You know, that's what everybody needs is like a witness. Sometimes you just need somebody to witness what happened to you, and you just have to tell somebody. And the therapeutic value of that is so underrated. And by the way, starting therapy as an adult, who cares when you started? It doesn't matter.

It's an adjustment, of course, as she mentioned in her letter. But the other thing to remember is I heard Brene Brown say this. Every person has been through trauma. Everyone, at some point, the degree of trauma varies from person to person. But something has happened where you've been neglected. traumatized, ignored, abused, you'll fit into some bucket of it. And that when we reach adulthood, specifically the age of 40, which people like to call a midlife crisis, is when the barriers that you build around you start to wear off. Your protective layer and your protective coating,

the way that you learn to deal with this trauma or abuse or whatever happens to you or neglect, at a certain age, it starts to shed and it doesn't work for you anymore. And that's why people at that age most commonly start to go, wait a second, what's going on here? I'm having all these feelings. I'm not comfortable with the feelings I'm having. I'm having self-assurance issues or insecurity. And she put it in such a beautiful way because that is what it is. We get to an age where you have to become self-actualized in order to grow and without delving into the work of what happened to you as a kid. And it's not to say that everybody had some terrible childhood. It doesn't mean that.

It just means that you've developed coping mechanisms to situations that weren't fun for you. A family friend of ours who she had been in her childhood through like worst case scenario, like parents were in a cult. There was tons of sexual abuse, like really awful, awful stuff. And she said the same thing. Like when you get to your 30s, everything you have to protect you crumbles. Like none of it works anymore. And for her, she had gotten into, like, such a state of, you know, sort of reliving these traumas that she was almost inconsolable for a long time. And she actually started equine therapy.

She started working with horses. And for her, because she had such an acute level of damage, that was something that, like, she didn't at first have to talk to anybody. It was just about, like, being with an animal, taking care of another being. And that was sort of her entree into dealing with all of the trauma that she had been through. But I think it's true is whether it's like being teased in school or whether it's, you know, big G traumas like that, we've all got something that we're covering up. Yeah, like when my parents didn't pick me up from Hebrew school or regular school or from any functions really and would just – I remember telling Dan Siegel about it and him saying that's a neglect, like that you were abandoned. And I'm like, well, no, it's not that serious. He goes, no, you've convinced yourself it's not that serious.

He goes, it is serious. You were a little girl waiting for your father to pick you up from school and he didn't show up multiple times. That's trauma. And I kept thinking, no, that's just too, like, but he was right. Because the way that I am now about being left behind is the same as I was when I was a kid. Panic.

You know, like I have to, that's why I'm early. Even when I try to be late, I have to be on time because I don't, I just have this like internal clock that is developed from all of those times where I was left waiting. Yeah. So I definitely don't like to be kept waiting. Yeah. Well, this is a follow-up from Dana. I remember who had the creepy stepson.

Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. And we had read on the podcast a follow-up from someone else who was like, this could be the beginning of mental health stuff as well. So Dana says, thank you so much for sharing the follow-ups from other callers. I actually agree that it's possible this is the onset of mental illness in my stepson. After thinking about it some more, I remember that his maternal grandmother was mentally ill as well as one of his uncles, which is why it's so important to talk about this stuff in families. I'm disheartened as I was hoping my stepson's relationship with my son would be one of the strongest bonds in their lives.

As time goes on, though, his behavior becomes increasingly odd and worrisome. They have less and less contact. Thank you again both for your advice and for being awesome. All my best, Dana. Yeah. So it sounds like they're sort of like phasing out alone time with her son. And that's probably for the best. And our next email follow up is this one I think is so interesting. So Corey had written in during our Laurel and Jackson episode. And Corey was in a relationship with someone who he was like thinking about getting married to. And his boyfriend was from another

country. And they were thinking about doing sort of a green card marriage, but also like being in love. And Laurel and Jackson kept saying, I see three months. Three months keeps coming up. And the caller kept being like, Corey kept being like, oh, no, no, no. You know, nothing's going to happen in three months. Well, Corey says, y'all wanted an update to pass on, and I got one for you. He bailed on me. He and I dated for another month or two after the podcast. I told him how I felt and that I wanted to be his boyfriend, try the marriage that he had brought up, etc. He said he had too much going on to commit to any sort of relationship despite having said otherwise while we were dating. He started calling me buddy, friend, dude, and then bailed on every

plan I tried to make. We finally went to dinner and I told him I won't date someone who won't communicate with me or show basic respect of my time and effort. We spoke a tiny bit here and there afterward, but I'm done with him. On the bright side, I got some solid jokes out of it. I appreciate your time with me during the podcast. Despite how it turned out, It was really cool to chat with you, Chelsea and Laura. Thanks, Kori. Onwards and upwards. Exactly.

And I did the math of like when he emailed in and I was like, I think it was exactly like three months. Oh, was it? That's what I think from just doing the math. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Chelsea, we're going to head into our calling in backup segment with BetterHelp,

who is sponsoring this segment. And today, Courtney Cope is joining us, licensed marriage family therapist and principal clinical Operations Manager at BetterHelp. Hi, Courtney. Hi, Courtney. Hi, great to see you both. Hi. Well, Angela writes, Dear Chelsea, before I go any further, I just want to point out that I love my mother-in-law dearly, but I really could use some advice on how to deal with her in certain situations. I need to rewind a bit before I was in the picture. My partner, who's now 37, lost his sister to cancer when she was just 15 and he was 10. As anyone can imagine, this broke them as a family and changed them completely. We have a one-year-old little boy, and since having him,

I have so much more empathy for what they all went through. However, every time we're together, his mom breaks down in tears. The crying isn't always about her late daughter. Of course, I will always comfort and listen when she speaks about her. This will never be an issue for me. But it can be over anything. It can be over casual conversation about the weather, about what books we're reading, even what we may be having for tea that evening. A lot of the conversations we have, I find she often puts a negative Debbie Downer spin on it. She'll cry and get emotional at other people's problems, too, even people she barely knows. But lately, I just feel like every time we're due to see her, I instantly start to feel miserable.

It's like I'm anticipating the emotions that are about to come, and I feel like the life and happiness has been drained from me when I leave her. She also has a tendency to make everything about her, which is extremely annoying. I completely understand why she has this dark side to her, given everything that's happened in the past. I'd never want her to feel like she can't talk about her daughter to me. I'll hold her hand and cry and laugh on the odd occasion, but I can't deal with the constant downing of everything else. So, do you have any advice on how I can handle this going forward? I always try and make light of the situations, but it rarely works. Thanks for taking the time to read this, Angela.

Well, Angela, I can't tell you how many therapy sessions I've had that started off with, First of all, I want to point out that I love my mother-in-law dearly, but so super common. I don't think this is a question about grief. This is really a question about this woman is feeling trapped and not like she can do anything about the situation or that her efforts to change it in the past have been unsuccessful. And ideally, in a situation like this, I would love to see husband and wife sit down together, discuss this as a unit and perhaps even take two to three sessions with a couples therapist to explore some solutions. Because this is really about the husband, the wife, and now their new

one-year-old child as a unit deciding how they want to move forward with the relationship with his parents in a way that works for their family unit. Yeah, I think that's good advice because you do need like a team member because she does feel so trapped. Like the idea of having to hang out with somebody that's such a Debbie Downer and knowing that it's an obligation of yours by way of marriage isn't fair. It's just not. Only to a degree. And you've reached your limit, it sounds like. Right. And the general consensus among most couples therapy experts is that it's really important that an adult child, when they're now engaging in an intimate adult relationship like a marriage, a domestic partnership, they have to choose their partner over their parent. And what

i mean by that is if something isn't working for their partner or something's affecting their partner they have to prioritize their partner's feelings over their parents in order to be able to move forward and have not only a healthy relationship but a healthy adult experience because no adult should be under the thumb of their mother or father's will in perpetuity right that would just hinder them as an adult for the rest of their life so that would be what i would say about that. But also, I just, of course, have to say losing a child is, of course, considered one of the most ultimate tragedies and, of course, is going to impact somebody for the rest of their life in some way or another. That being said, it is not this person's job to be their mother-in-law's

therapist, to sit down and find solutions specific for their mother-in-law. So this is really, I think about the husband and wife having constructive conversations here. Yeah, absolutely. Because it is his responsibility to get the situation started. You know, it's his mom. When that moment comes and you're like sitting around the table talking about literally the weather and she breaks down in tears, what's the move? I mean, my instinct is to be like, I'm going to give you a couple minutes, like ver, ver. I'm going to give you a couple minutes and walk away. But like that also feels a little icy cold from me. What's the move to like break the cycle that she knows is coming? Right. In an ideal world, we would have husband and wife ahead of time deciding like, hey,

if mom starts crying or mother-in-law starts crying at this visit, husband is going to step in and he's going to take over or say something. Wife can excuse herself, whatever it is. But let's just say it's just her and mother-in-law, right? I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding ahead of time. What do I have capacity for? If I don't want to go down this road for more than 15 seconds or 35 seconds doing exactly what you said, Catherine is totally appropriate. Like I hear you and I'm going to step outside and get some fresh air. You know, I'm going to go pour another cup of tea. Anything to pattern interrupt would be really useful. But the other thing I would also encourage is to have husband and wife ahead of time, maybe start looking at the ways

they're spending time with mother-in-law and if there's ways they can redirect that quality time together into avenues that maybe won't bring it about as much. Now, I want to acknowledge they might be limited. They have a one-year-old, so it's not like they can take the one-year-old and just like go to theater or movies with the mother. Yeah. Have you thought about taking your mother skiing? Yeah. I hear Chelsea's good at that. So they definitely want to do things that are not just sitting and staring at each other across from their cup of tea, right? Because that's going to invite probably conversations that they don't want to have. So thinking ahead of time of what they could do, having a plan with her husband that if it does come up, what's he going to do to

step in? And then the last thing I'll say is if someone is going to speak directly to the mother in law about her behavior or her grief or how anything she's doing is impacting anyone, it has to be from the husband. I would say it would be very difficult for that conversation to go well if it came from the wife. And if it comes from the husband, him and his mom have a shared experience of grief. They both lost a loved one. And so I think even for him to be able to say, you know, I get it. It's so hard. We lost this person that we love. And I'm working to be more in the moment. And I'd love for you to be more in the moment with me. Just something that relates to her instead of shaming her, blaming her, I think will be really important here.

Courtney Cope, thank you. Courtney is a licensed marriage and family therapist and principal clinical operations manager at BetterHelp. And of course, thank you again to BetterHelp for sponsoring Calling and Backup. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks, Courtney. Thanks. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be back with some callers. Okay. and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brothers hits that have defined a generation. One incredible celebration. One unforgettable night. See the Jonas Brothers live at RBC Amphitheater, September 28th.

Get tickets now at Ticketmaster.ca. Jonas Brothers, the Burning Up Tour, all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much,

you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle.

I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us.

Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we are back.

We are back. I've decided to start changing the way I say we're back because it's starting to annoy me. That's all right. Someone wrote in there like, you know, you guys don't have to announce it. But it's the bit for the people who are in the room. There's no actual break. Tell that person to file a lawsuit if they don't like it. I will.

I will. So our first email comes from Zach. Zach says, I first want to say how much of a fan I am of your podcast and all that you do. I loved seeing you at Red Rocks, Chelsea. Now on to my question. I just turned 33, recently married my husband, and have an overall great life. However, now that I'm getting older, I realize that I still do not really know who I am.

I tend to come off timid, self-conscious, and doubtful in my life and my career. Although I have a great job and perform well in my role, I want to be more confident and display more presence. What are some actionable things you've done in your life to better understand yourself, your purpose, and grow into the confident person you are? Mushrooms? Who better to ask than you two? Kindest regards, Zachary.

Reading. Reading is the answer to everything. It tells you what you're interested in, what makes you learn. It shows you your aptitude for growth and interest in other cultures and situations that are different than you. And it really doesn't matter what you read, but you should read stuff that isn't like your life. It doesn't matter if you're reading fiction or nonfiction or magazines or newspapers. It's just good to take you out of yourself. I feel like the biggest growth that can happen is from learning and how can you learn more

than by reading. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And there's a certain amount of like fake it till you make it too. I think confidence is something that when you walk into a room and even if you just tell yourself like, I'm confident, I deserve to be here, I think that's really helpful. One thing that I came across the other day as I was going through some emails was a specific task that an old mentor of mine had given me.

And he said, I want you to write to your 10 closest people, whether that's family, friends, and ask them, what do you think are your unique capabilities or about yourself? So you say, what do you think are my unique capabilities? What do you think I do better than anybody else or some of my best qualities? And I kind of was flipping through. I had done this like 10 years ago and these unique capabilities that people reflect back at you that they've experienced you doing become so fascinating because it's stuff you don't necessarily even see in yourself but having people who you know you can trust who care about you telling you I love that yeah that's a great idea I could never get away

with something like that because my whole world revolves around me so my family would be like are you fucking kidding me more with you but that is a great exercise for anybody to do because I would love to get an email like that from one of my friends. Totally. And you'd be like, here's all the things you're great at. Because other people's experience of us sometimes is a lot more positive than what we have going on inside or the timidity we might have going on inside. Right.

And expanding your knowledge as always. Like when I talk about reading so much, it's because A, it gives you something to discuss, right? You can always bring that up in a conversation. So it's a conversation starter. You know, sometimes our brains shut down when we're low or depressed. or tired. We don't have a lot of growth happening, right? So if you want your brain circuitry to always be electric, that is the best way to do that is to engage and not by being online and

watching Instagram. That's not going to do it. That's dead energy. Watching TV can also be dead energy unless you're watching a documentary and there's a lot of learnings in there. But active energy is, you know, filling yourself up with. So there's just so much value in it. And I love to know things that I don't know about so that I'm not so harsh to judge things that are not familiar to me. And I think reading is a great vehicle for that. And it does instill confidence in you because you get a better command over the use of language. You understand differences better. I know. I should just go to a biblioteca and register myself as a permanent librarian. That's what will make me happy. Maybe I'll do that in Spain in my old age. I'll become a

librarian at a biblioteca when I finally get command over the Spanish language. Reading in Spanish is a whole other thing. I always have to look up a lot of things. It's, you know, different than conversation. Our first caller today is Beth. She is 41. She's a personal trainer she says i met a guy four months ago on a dating app there were red flags at first like him being in prison a decade ago for two years for trespassing supposedly which didn't make sense to me and that he didn't have any friends however we connected quickly and things moved very fast i was vulnerable looking for love and a real connection he told me he loved me after a month and was even talking about moving in together he wanted to be with me all the time which i liked

but now knows a red flag, him being needy and very codependent. Every weekend, he would buy Molly and cocaine and said it was just a weekend thing. He would also drink and get angry over nothing and block me for days at a time and then come back and tell me he was seeking out other women but missed me. At the end, he told me he cheated on me and he was sorry, but he needed to break it off to work on himself. Our relationship lasted about three months. Less than a week after he ended things, I came to find out he made friends with people in my apartment complex, most of whom I know do drugs as well, including a friend of mine.

Then I heard from our mutual friend that they are now dating, and he's already told her he loves her, love bombing her like he did to me. It's been a little over a week now, and I see his car in my parking garage 24-7. Gross. What a gross person. Yep. It seems like he's already moved in. I even saw him when he was going to his car in my garage and I was in my car leaving for work. We made eye contact as I drove by.

He's technically not even allowed to be parked in my garage because he's not a resident, but my complex doesn't do anything about it even though I reported him. I have also seen him from afar walking her dog in the complex. I've realized he's a manipulator, compulsive liar, and possibly a con artist who probably tries this with every girl he meets, but it's been getting pretty hard to get over the whole situation. I blocked him in this now-former friend, but I'm finding myself looking over my shoulder in my complex. I don't want anything to do with him or her, but now I feel like I need to move.

My lease is up in about three weeks, but I also have rent control, and I love the area I've been living in for seven years. I also know I won't find a place I can afford where I want to live. My friends keep telling me this won't last. Should I move, or should I stay and wait it out? Beth. Hi, Beth. Oh, hi. Sorry that you had to deal with such a scumbag.

He's so disgusting. I thank you. I'm still dealing with it. I know. I know. I have two thoughts. I don't think you should move because this relationship is not going to last. He's unstable and he's just siphoning off of whomever is available.

But do you feel like he could potentially be a dangerous person? I don't think so. What was he in prison for again? He says trespassing, but I mean, he was in prison for trespassing for two years. I don't know. I think he's lying. I think you should look that up and find out. There's got to be a public record of what he served time for.

Yeah, I tried, but I think it's over 10 years. So I'm not sure if I can get those records. I don't think he's dangerous. I think he would have done something by now. I did put like a ring camera on my door and, and I have a Tesla that reports, you know, if you go near my car. So I feel safe in that respect. Okay. Yeah. I mean, if he's getting Molly on the weekends, that usually doesn't lead to danger, but I mean, who knows, you know, I mean, alcohol, all cocaine does. So I don't think you should move. Okay. It doesn't sound like you're in danger. You're just, it's very irritating for you to have to deal with this. And then, but you know what kind of person he is. He will definitely do the same thing with this woman. It will happen and

he will be gone. Used to be my friend. I mean, she lives in my complex too. And she, she was my friend for like two years. I hear from other people. She's saying, I mean, I know this is to make herself feel better that we were never friends. Oh yeah. So she's not open to having a conversation with you right i don't think so i mean i blocked her i don't want anything to do with her but i still have to also she lives in my complex too so it's like i'd risk running into her as well i think just really play the high road on this one do not interact with them you don't have to have any business with them who cares what she's saying who cares what she'll have us to be singing a different tune when she gets fucked over by him i assure you that she will be knocking

on your door wanting to commiserate about the idiot that you both dated but it'll be too late by then just i i know it's an icky situation but it's not permanent it's not going to last for very long and don't disrupt your life because of some idiot and be grateful that you only spent three months with him yeah right i'm hoping i'm hoping that's the case everyone says it's not gonna last it's just like it's like he's been his i just see his car in my garage and it's not supposed to be there but my complex is not doing anything about it like all the time it's just always there it does feel very con artist like i'm glad that you said that did he ask you for money or like have you pay for stuff or that sort of thing um it seemed like he was getting there but i think also

that he he knew he couldn't scam me like that so that's why he stopped it with me and he knows like she's more vulnerable and she he can get away with it with her that's what it seems like i mean he was also talking about moving in with me too like right away yeah i think i feel like this guy is like doesn't have a home and he's just like moving in with whatever girl will have him i know it seems that way i mean i've been to his apartment i mean before but i don't know it could be but i mean if there is any danger if they're at any point you feel like you're in danger you really have to engage the police yeah you can't take a risk like that and think oh somebody's not dangerous that's what we could a lot of people think that about a lot of people and with his

record and not knowing why he was in prison and his drug use and all of those things like obviously you don't have to do that prematurely but if something starts to happen that you feel unsafe like I don't want you running around being like get his car out of the parking lot who gives a shit like let them go fucking be idiots together good riddance it's unfortunate you have to see your ex you know nobody wants to see their ex all the time but I wouldn't make it you know have it huge impact on your life and where you move right right I don't want to move I don't think it's go that i have to move no no don't do it don't do it i agree with chelsea like if you do start feeling unsafe or he's approaching you or threatening you then like it's time for a

restraining order but like that isn't necessarily going to keep him away but it would be something you could bring to your apartment complex and say like i have this legal document he can't park here but that's i think down the road other than that i think you're not gonna have to deal with him in a couple months i hope so i mean it's been like two weeks and i'm like just hoping that this falls apart soon go on a vacation get out of here take a little break thank you yeah if you all right well keep us posted yeah let us know what happens i will take care thank you so much love you guys i listen all the time huge love you too thank you bye bye that's unfortunate i know isn't that creepy i'm like oh awful yeah i don't know how i'd feel about having to see

somebody all the time but when you know somebody's such a loser it kind of takes the sting out of the breakup yeah dated an idiot like you said it's just like thank goodness she figured out what was going on soon enough and got away from him because i don't know people like that they're pretty scary i mean cocaine molly on the weekends it's like like maybe one weekend But the casualness of saying that is ridiculous. Clearly that's a problem. Maybe not every weekend. Maybe not every weekend.

I mean, Molly's fine, but cocaine is another story. I speak from experience. The Jonas Brothers are running it back. We live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brother hits that have defined a generation. one incredible celebration one unforgettable night see the jonas brothers live at rbc amphitheater september 28th get tickets now at ticketmaster.ca jonas brothers the burning up tour all over again when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart

and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up, don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society,

the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm I'm so obsessed, so obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,

then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita,

we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita,

trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself.

So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brittany says, Dear Chelsea, My younger sister and I have always been very close. Even though we have lived in different states for six years, we talk every day and tell each other everything. Cute. She's my best friend.

Here's the problem. She has a shit husband. I knew that was going to happen. Right? He's a cheating, gaslighting narcissist. They got married when they were 18, when he enlisted in the Army. They moved out of state and had their first kid when they were 19. They're now 24 and have three kids under four.

Before she got pregnant with her first kid, she found out that her husband was active on dating websites. She confronted him. They, quote, worked it out and continued on with their relationship. Fast forward to when her second kid was six months old. She found out with hard proof that her husband had cheated on her countless times over the previous two years. She began the process of leaving him and figuring out what their new lives would look like. Then somehow he talked his way back into a relationship with her. This has repeated itself in different forms a few more times since then.

Every time shit hits the fan, he plays the victim, makes her feel crazy, then professes his guilt and love and says he's willing to change. Needless to say, it's obvious he will never change. I know that the main reason she stays is because she's terrified of how difficult of a process it will be to divorce him and to figure out how to support herself financially. I told my sister a while back that I'll always be there for her, but I'm done hearing about all the shit he puts her through if she's not going to do anything to change her situation. It's truly heartbreaking and mentally taxing for me to watch my sister willingly stay in this toxic marriage and continually be treated this way. Our relationship has slowly been affected by this because there's this huge elephant in the room whenever we talk. We don't have any resentment toward each other or anything like that. Things just aren't the same.

How can I help my sister realize that she needs out and will be so much happier on the other side of an inevitable nasty divorce? Or how can I just come to terms with the fact that I need to let this all go, not stress about something I can't change, and risk losing my close relationship with my sister? Help me, Brittany. Hi, Brittany. Hi. So what's the rest of your family? Do you have other siblings, parents? Yeah, I have an older brother, a younger brother, and then my sister is the youngest.

And is there any talk of maybe all of you having some sort of like a quasi intervention with her? No, I mean, we're all really close, but nobody else besides me really gets involved in her situation. She doesn't really tell anybody anything. So I'm kind of the middleman within the whole situation. So she has kind of told my parents a little bit of what's going on, but they don't know in detail because she's embarrassed, frankly, by the whole situation. So they only know bits and pieces, but they know she needs out as well.

But I'm really the only one who speaks out on it. And do you think that you could corral your brothers? They just honestly don't really care that much, I think. They know like they want her to get out and they want her to be happy. But I think they're just more reserved and quiet in that sense. And honestly, I don't think she values their opinion enough to really make a difference. Well, they're men, so that makes sense. Right, right, yeah.

No offense, Brad. I think maybe you should have a conversation with your parents, right, to try and do something together, like sit her down with the three of you. Like, we can't watch you go through your life like this. And the impact that this relationship, the damaging impact that this relationship is going to have on her children and the self-esteem that these kids grow up with and the way they see their mother treated and remaining in a relationship is going to have far-reaching negative— Yes.

It's going to be trauma for all of them. And she is allowing her children to be traumatized by her inability to get out of a relationship that is negative and toxic and controlling. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, cheating, you can make an argument that that's abusive or not. But the gaslighting like that is straight up repetitive cheating is obviously it's absolutely.

And I wonder if she understands it in that context of like you are being abused. It takes someone seven times to get out of this relationship. I know, you know, you and I had even talked about like having her potentially come and move in with you and that that's something you've expressed you would be open to. Right. Exactly. that's just a hard scenario because she does have three children and they live in Washington state and I'm in California so the custody thing is a huge issue I think he would make that a living

hell for her because he's even threatened in the past like you're not going to see your kids you don't make any money I make all the money there like there's no way you'd get custody which is bogus I mean that he just doesn't know what he's talking about but it terrifies her she doesn't want to go through it so I know if she were to leave him she would stay up there and then she just doesn't have a strong support system up there, which is why I think she's done the back and forth so many times because he just weasels his way back in that way. Yeah. And so she doesn't have a job, right? No, she's a stay home mom. And is there any possibility of you being able to move up there? No, my husband right now, he's we're locked in where we're at for at least another

five years. So we've talked about it in the past, but it's just not a possibility right now. Okay. I do think it's important to have a plan because, you know, this is not going to not happen again. it's going to happen again. And I think because you know it's going to happen again, you can have a plan. And maybe that is when this happens again, I fly up, I go get her, she stays with us for two weeks. Having a plan in place where it's like a specific amount of time that's enough for her to sort of like get her head a little bit right and see, oh, there are other options for me. You know, I have a support system. Maybe mom and dad will help with some of that stuff as well, whether that's financial or are they in a position your parents to help financially not so much but they

would do anything for her there was even a situation I think a couple years ago where my dad was about to sign a lease for an apartment for the town I live so she was going to come down here and figure out the stuff with the kids later and he was about to sign it and figure all that out even though he can't really afford it and then a few days went by and she's like oh no we're good now we're working on it we're going to go to therapy and all that and then therapy never happens and it's just a cycle so we've had that situation where she'll come to visit me during an event that something like this happens and she's all on board she knows everything I say she's responsive and and understands and she agrees with me that she needs out and then she goes home to pack her

things literally and then I don't hear for a couple days and then she calls me back and she's like we're working on it so we've tried it all I mean we're all so supportive of her and want her out and trying to help her financially. And I think that's not even the issue for her. I think it's the whole custody battle, her having to start her life over. She's scared, even though she's so young and so beautiful. She's scared that nobody is going to want her in the future and she's going to be alone with a single mom the rest of her life. Guess what she hears at home. Nobody else is going to want you like you can't ever find anybody as good as me. She needs to read Untamed by Glennon Doyle or read one of Brene Brown's books about the value that you have in yourself.

I mean, this guy is just, I can understand why you're so upset. It's upsetting to see your sister diminished in this way and to be devalued in this way and not to have confidence in her ability. She has her whole life ahead of her and she's choosing to remain in this instead of taking a brave leap. And she needs information. You have to figure out a way to get her the information so that she understands what happens in divorce. She can't just be exposed to his narrative because obviously he's going to make her scared of everything and she needs distance from him. So I don't know how to approach that for you. Like if it were me, I would get as involved as possible. Yeah. Right. Which is what I've tried. And honestly, he's kind of a scary human. Like I don't know what he's capable of. And like I said, he's super narcissistic. He was in the army for four years. He wants to be a police officer eventually and he just feels like he's of this high importance and he doesn't ever talk down to her in that way like I'm better than you or anything like that but it's well known like he

thinks he runs the show around there and I'm just kind of afraid like he's never been physically aggressive towards her at all but I I don't I wouldn't put it no it doesn't it sounds it sounds to me like that's in the future like that's a definite possibility yeah especially he's just so controlling of her and he thinks he can kick her out whenever he wants and he's just the ruler of her life so I'm like it's only a matter of time before things get physical in my mind you know and I've told her that too and she's like yeah I know I don't ever think he would but I'm like you never you never think they would you know yeah does he kick her out on a semi-regular basis so um this last time they had a tiff a couple weeks ago was because she went out with a friend and ended up

going back to this friend's house and her boyfriend's roommate or something, her boyfriend's friend was there. So he thought she was cheating, even though she never would. And he's like projecting all these things he's done to her that he thinks she would do back. And so that whole situation, he drove like two hours or something to go pick her up in the middle of the night, dragged her home, threw a suitcase at her, said, pack your shit, you're getting out of my house and you're not going to see your daughters for a few days. So he's just like, he thinks he controls everything even though and did she go she yeah she left she stayed my brother actually lives a few miles from her so she stayed with him for a couple nights she actually went to see

a lawyer and figure out what her rights are and what her next steps should be and the lawyer was so confident that he could never take the kids away from her because it's just not factual yeah and then yeah she had the divorce papers ready to be filled out and everything and just once again he he's like i'm so sorry i'm starting to believe you you didn't cheat on me and he just grovels his way back in and he makes all these empty promises no no no no this is somebody that is going to abuse your sister for sure yeah this is all the writing on the wall like of what it's leading up to that example right there is all you need to know like you have got to get her to believe that it is time to move out for her safety and she already got she already had a lawyer like

you have to do everything you can to get her out of that situation yeah yeah and continuing to let her know like we're here we'll do whatever you know maybe it's not like your parents move in with a bunch of money because that's not possible for them but we'll do whatever we need to do to make sure you and your kids are supported I mean if even if you guys can all pull money together you know everyone makes whatever contribution they can in order for her to afford rent for like the short term until a divorce is happening but this is a man who is abusive that that example is crazy and three children he's going to try and turn them against her like she's the sooner she gets the fuck out of there, the safer everyone is going to be. Yeah. And I've told her that

numerous times, especially within the last couple of years, because everything just it keeps progressing. It keeps getting worse. He keeps doing crazier things that I never thought he'd be possible of. So it's only a matter of time. And when I express these things to her, she's like, yeah, I know, like really soft spoken about it, but agrees with me. And then she turns right back around like, yeah, but you don't know how good it is when it's good. And I'm like, no, I do, because I understand he's a he's actually a great dad, which is great for the kids because they don't have to experience what my sister's experiencing. But I think she's clinging on to that. Like she sees how great he can be. Yeah, but he's not a great dad because he's

being abusive to his wife, like hurt him going and picking her up two hours away because he's convinced she's cheating on him. That's abusive. Yeah, that isn't a good father. That's disrespecting their mother. He's not a good father. She thinks that he's a good father because that's how she's rationalizing it and also like this is what abusers do when it is good it feels you're over the moon and then they take you into the depths of despair this is what they do and this is also a person who it sounds like probably has access to guns and other things like this is this is it's important to get her out and she may not want to go right away and i know you're exhausted from having the same conversation over and over with her but like you just have to keep telling her i'm here and

it's not her who needs to go pack her stuff. Like when she goes back, she doesn't, she can't be in the same room with him. Yeah, I know. What am I even saying? He needs to get out. She needs to kick him out, but she doesn't seem like she has the tenacity to do that. No. I just mean like you mentioned, like she goes back to like get her stuff and he convinces her. Like, no, if she's gone, if she's away from him, you got to keep her away from him. Be like, I'll go get your things or somebody, one of the brothers goes and gets her things, whatever. Because when she has, he has access to her, that's when he's going to convince her to come back. Yeah, exactly. I know. Is there a way for you? What's your work schedule like? Like, is there a way for you to go up there and spend like two weeks so that you can actually get her out of the house?

Not at the moment. I just can't afford it right now, unfortunately. And I have a two year old son, too. So it's hard for me to take that time. What about mom and dad or or a best friend? Is there a best friend in the picture who could maybe do that? I'm sure he's isolated all of her friends. I mean, I don't know if he single-handedly has, but just her, her situation over the years, I think her friends who have gotten kind of close, they see this roller coaster, like I'm leaving him. I'm not, I'm leaving him. I'm not. So I think that, I mean, I'm her, I'm still here cause I'm her sister, but I feel like if I was kind of a semi-close friend, I probably wouldn't be still, you know, just because she's so wishy-washy with that. And like, you think you're helping her and then she just does the opposite. it. And it's just really hard to continually be there for that. And are you, what about your brother's living situation? Like, is that somewhere she could live and move into? Yeah. So she stayed there for a couple of days, a couple of weeks ago. And he's like, he has a small extra room, like not room for the kids, but at least for her. And it's only like 20 minutes from where

her kids would be. So she has that option too. And he even, you know, he's like, as long as you need, you can stay here. And she just like up and left and she's like, I'll come get my things tomorrow. We're going back home. So everybody's 100 percent all in there for her and supportive of her leaving him. And she just keeps getting spooked by the thought that either nobody will want her. It's going to be a hard restart of her life or he's going to make her life a living hell. Yes. All that is enough to scare her back in, along with his sweet talking, whatever he says to her. But it doesn't compare to the freedom you feel when you leave an abuser. I know. I keep trying to tell her that once all that's said and done, like that divorce process isn't going to be

forever and once it's all done and your your custody is all settled and everything it's going to be she's gonna be so much happier but she just doesn't see it that way she'll agree with me in the moment and then of course it all goes out the window this is a person who's under the influence of what is basically mind control so you know you do have to kind of take that into consideration that like her mind is being controlled by another person but i do think it's worth going back to chelsea's idea of like having your whole family sit down with her and be like we want to help you in any way possible here is a potential plan we love you this isn't okay that you're being treated like this and tell her what the plan is and we'll be here if it's not now if it's you know we're

here to make a plan with you we're here to make a plan if she needs to leave the house and or because he's obviously not going to probably listen to her to get move out but if she needs to leave the house you can go in the interim stay with your brother while she gets on her feet gets the divorce proceedings going. She will get custody of her children, most likely. And then she can figure out what she's going to do for work or if she's going to work or what that dynamic is going to be. But you have to be indefatigable with your efforts with her. You have to. Yeah. And you have to impress it upon your family and your brothers. So maybe they care a little bit more about how dangerous the situation is. Yeah, I agree. Because no one in your family, including your brothers,

I know men don't love to get involved in this kind of stuff, but they are never going to be able to forgive themselves if something happens to her. Yeah, I agree. So I'm sorry that we can't be of more help, but like, please just no, no, no. It's great. I mean, I appreciate the help that you have given me because I've been kind of juggling this. Like, do I just kind of bite my tongue and let it ride itself out? And she'll finally realize like maybe the next time she'll finally realize and actually leave him because she's been so close. But at this point, it just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So I'm like, I either need to go all in and say something like you said, or I just need to kind of fall back and let it come in between us. And maybe

she'll realize on her own. But yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. And, you know, I wonder also, is she in therapy by herself? No. She's willing to. And they have they have talked about it. And not with him. Don't go with him. Just her. OK. Yeah. Yeah. She needs some self-esteem and self-worth. And an outside person being like, I am brand new to this situation and it's really bad and you need to get away from it. Right. Yeah. Okay. I'll talk to her about that. Yeah. It's really hard. What you're going through is really, really hard. Yeah. It's really hard. I mean, juggling like all my life stresses and everything I'm going through and then trying to help her with hers too. And obviously that's way more serious than anything

I'm going through, but it's just hard to be there and just watch her continually do it. It's exhausting. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this, but keep us posted. If there's any way we can help in any way, you know, let us know how, how it goes and please just do not give up on your sister. Okay. I won't. Okay. Sending you lots of love, honey. Thanks, Brittany. Good luck. Thank you guys so much. Nice to meet you. Bye. That one got me. That is very upsetting. That's really tough. Yeah. When I was in an abusive relationship in college, it took every single one of my friends from college who knew this person well,

every single one of my girlfriends from high school who didn't know him well but had met him, everyone in my family separately, all of them saying, he's not good for you. This is not a good situation. This guy is no good. And it wasn't until I had this realization of, I think I love this person. And if every single person in my life who loves me is saying this isn't good for me, then maybe I need to take a leap of faith and get away from this. It's not even a leap of faith, though, you know? No.

I know it feels that way when you're subjected to that kind of, like, controlling behavior. But you have to listen to the people in your life that love you. You have to listen to them when they're saying, hey, red flag, red flag. I wish my family would say stuff more often. They don't. They're like, imagine giving you advice. She would never listen to us. I'm like, actually, I would.

If you're concerned about my well-being, I want to know about it. I might blow you off, but especially with regard to like a romantic love interest, I would absolutely listen to my family. Yeah, and I do think you're right. Like being indefatigable, being persistent with love and support, but also saying like there is something better for you is, you know, maybe you wouldn't listen the first time, but you might listen the second time or the third time. You know, people do warm up to ideas, you know. Well, let's talk to Rachel. Rachel's 32, and she says, Dear Chelsea, I'm having a hard time getting over a good friend that recently ghosted me.

Aww. I know. She decided to start back up an affair with a married man and stopped talking to all of her close friends. Now it seems that she's resumed her normal life and she's let everyone back in except for me. I was one of the few people she spoke to about the affair before, and for a very long time she held the shame of this affair by herself without telling a soul. My suspicion is that she's let all of her friends back in that didn't really know about the situation or won't hold her accountable. She knows that what she's doing is wrong,

but she doesn't want to face the difficulty of ending the affair for good. My question is related to the anger that I'm holding on to. It's been about five months and she's completely ghosted. And at this point, I don't think our friendship is salvageable, nor do I want to salvage a friendship with someone that acts like this. But I can't help but feeling really angry that she's resuming her other friendships and, quote, getting away with her behavior. I feel like I'm being punished for being the type of friend to hold people accountable. Do you have any advice for how I can let this go and try to not hold on to so much anger?

We have mutual friends, and it's possible I'll have to cross paths with her in the future, and I don't really want to hold on to any more bad energy from the situation. Rachel. Hi, Rachel. Hi. Hi. So we just heard about your friend. It's been about five months, right, since you guys have talked?

Or has it been a little longer now? Yeah, almost six months. I can relate to the anger that you're holding on to. And I think the first step, A, is you acknowledging that you are angry and that you want to let go of it, right? You don't want that running you. And you don't also want your friend, her choices, like you saying how you feel or having judgment towards her about it. you know, you could deal with that in one of two ways. You can be like, oh, it's not my place to judge. Or you can have very strong opinions. I also have very strong opinions. I also share my

very strong opinions with my friends all the time. And many times it ends a friendship. Yeah. But it is more important for me to be truthful and to be direct because we live in a universe where there is a dearth of directness and honesty. And so I think you did the right thing by being true to yourself. You're not there for her. You know what I mean? In this instance, you're there for yourself to say, hey, this is icky. I don't want to see you like this. If this is her reaction to that, there's nothing to be angry about. Then you just have a clearer picture of what the situation was to begin with. So any of the anger is like you feeling rejected or you feeling

devalued or not valued enough. That's your stuff. She's not giving you any reason to be angry. She's not actively pursuing you, engaging you, gaslighting you. You're just mad. And either you have to stand by your behavior and understand that that sometimes will be the result when you are very honest with people and be okay with that or don't share your honesty yeah I kind of suspected also that my anger anger is a little bit easier of an emotion to feel sometimes like I think I'm choosing to feel angry when it's just hard to face how sad of a situation is I mean it's incredibly sad to lose a good friend. So I suspect that that's kind of part of it too. Of course, of course. Anger is just like a cover for sadness or hurt, you know,

that's exactly what it is. And you're right to believe that. But I also, you know, there's a time, you know, you're mourning a friendship. It's been five months and might be another five months, but there's the anger isn't going to serve you. You have to start thinking about her in a loving, kindful way. You know, we talk about this loving kindness meditation that I've done. I've done for people with friendships that have ended because I don't want to have any ill will towards them. And I don't want that in my body. So it's this thing. I don't know if you do you meditate at all? I don't. But that sounds interesting. This is a good meditation for you to start with, because this is an active meditation. You sit and you think about somebody

that's just random in the world and you send them. It's like, I wish you a life of ease. I wish you a life of safety. I wish you a life of love and you send them love, right? You don't have to mean it, but you just practice it. And then you think about someone who's really close to you, like maybe your mother or a sibling or somebody you really love. And then you think about a neutral person, someone that you have no connection with, you know, like somebody at work that you don't care what happens to them either way. And you practice this and it's, I send you ease. I send you love. I send you joy. And I send you, may you have a life of ease. May you have a life of joy. May you have a life of safety. You send all of these messages, right, to all the people. And

then you go to the difficult people. And this person is that difficult person. And you hit that person. And if you do this every single day, your anger will lift because it's a practice. And it sounds like you're stuck. And that's very common. We all are. And the only way to get yourself unstuck is to take the steps to do that. So while this sounds maybe weird, or you've never done anything like this, please don't knock it until you try it. Because you'd be amazed that just sending healing energy out into the world will shift your energy and will diminish your anger. Yeah, that sounds like something that would really help. I mean, I also think I'm frustrated because I don't feel like I'm an angry person. So I've kind of been stuck on it, but I think that

that could really help. It could. And sometimes we just have to shake ourselves up out of a rut and that's what you're in. You're hurt and you're disappointed and that's totally normal. And guess what? That's part of life.

It's gonna happen again probably at some point. And you can't just bemoan the situation over and over again because then it starts to eat away at you and then you're not giving out your best vibes either. And you wanna be available for the people in your life that you are having friendships with and relationships that are meaningful. and unfortunately this happened with her but you don't know what the future holds she could be back

around in six months or two years and you saying it's unsalvageable nothing's unsalvageable unless there's murder involved you know or rape like everything is salvageable yeah yeah so that's a defense mechanism as well it's just better to be at ease like okay she's living her life it didn't work out she's for some reason is holding you know our friendship hostage or doesn't want to be friends with me anymore. That's something you have to accept. And now you're going to move on. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you are on the right path, like even recognizing that it's really hurt your feeling that this anger is covering up. I think that's really good. Chelsea, any advice for when, you know, on the eventuality that she does run into this friend? I think, again, you know,

you go to out every if you don't feel love towards someone, you have to like fear, hate, sadness, all of it the opposite is love so if if you just look at her in a loving way like this is a girl that's going through a really bad time having an affair with a married man that's breaking up getting back together that that's not a good situation so you have to kind of take pity on her and say oh wow like that's sad that she has to live her life this way not in a judgmental way in a kind of there's nothing you can do about her life choices right all you can do is make sure you're making good choices and your good choices are going to include how to kind of get past this and try to actively move past this and just instead of just waiting for the feeling to

pass because that's so many times what we do we're like oh it's important to have your feelings and then it's important to actively move on from them so that you can move to the next thing and you're just feeling like this right now also you won't feel like this forever I promise you I've had breakups with friends that were really painful really disappointing I didn't think I'd ever get over them. And I'm sitting here today and, you know, and I'm probably at the healthiest time in my entire life. So don't beat yourself up for any of the feelings that you're having, but just always move towards love and grace and kindness. And if she does resurface in six months and she's not in that relationship anymore, then you can receive her with love and grace. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's

really helpful. And even if she is in that relationship and she resurfaces, you can still receive her with love and grace, except you have boundaries. You're not going to be in that relationship with her because it's too hard for you to watch yeah like I think you can see her you can say hi to her you can give her a hug at whatever this event is that you might run into her but then you know you just drift off and talk to other people you know you don't have to have to get into anything yeah you don't have to get anything I think it's always good to just be your best self so that the next time that person sees you they see oh wow I miss that person or she's doing great she's not hung up in my situation she's you know you know what I mean

it's good to set an example and, and it elevates you also inside. You feel better about yourself when you can handle things with a plum and grace instead of reactive or, you know, icing somebody out and all of that stuff. I've had a lot of experience with all of those things. So you're young and growing and smart. So I think you'll just be, you'll be just fine. And hopefully she will be too. Yeah. I think that I, I mean, I am kind of like centering myself in my reaction to it. Like ultimately she's still maybe in the midst of this very painful situation. So just trying to remember that as well. And I forget that when I get angry about it because it's really like my reaction to it. It is, it is because you could have no reaction to it. And also another thing

is don't badmouth her. Don't talk about her at all. Not to the friends that have reconvened with her. Don't talk shit about her. That's negative energy as well. Yeah, definitely. All right, Rachel, was that helpful? Yes, very helpful. Thank you. Okay, honey, you'll be fine. Just start that meditation though. Do it every morning, okay? Yeah, I'm definitely going to. That sounds great. I wish you a life of ease and then fill it in with joy, safety, and love. Thank you. Okay, take care. Thanks, Rachel.

Bye. Oh, she's a sweetie. Oh, yeah. Let's take a quick break, and we'll be right back to finish up. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B.

I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back. We're back. Do you see how many different variations I'm trying? So many. Chelsea, our last email comes from Melanie. She says, I'm a 30-year-old American woman from Colorado originally. American woman. Who recently moved to New Zealand for a year-long research fellowship.

I was born to be an expat, and I've lived in Europe a couple of times already. Though I've only been here in New Zealand a couple of months, I am very happy here and feel in my outdoorsy heart I could stay for a long time. I booked a room in an Airbnb for the first month in hopes that it could turn into a longer-term solution if all was going well. My room is one of three in the owner's home, and it turned out to be just perfect. Good price for my very tight budget, walking distance to work, and just really lovely all around. The host is a kind Kiwi man, probably in his late 40s, so 20-ish years difference. We instantly clicked in what I initially thought was a brother-sister type of way. He's physically not who I'm typically attracted to, and while I've always thought I'd be better off with an older guy,

he initially seemed a little too far out of my age range. And being my landlord, of course, a romantic connection just wasn't in the realm of possibility for me. Boy, did that change. We spend a lot of time together. I found myself thinking about him a lot, and I recently found that I'm very attracted to him. The forbidden nature probably has something to do with it, but I also think there might be more here. He seems to understand me in a way I haven't experienced with most guys closer to my age. If he also feels a romantic connection, it's not obvious.

He's been good about keeping it professional. However, he did invite me on an upcoming trip to Asia. Initially, it was more of a I'll fit you in my suitcase joking kind of way, but then it became a real request, and now I've got a ticket to join him later this year. Worth noting is that the accommodation situation has yet to be discussed. My friends say that if he's into me, he's unlikely to make a move given the power dynamics, and I agree. The question is, do I make a move, and how? Or do I continue to let it play out and hope it evolves organically? Something about this just seems right. Melanie.

Make a move, Melanie! Make a move! This is the only life you get, unless you believe in reincarnation but even then you don't even know what the fuck's going on so according to us as we speak this is the only life you get yeah make a move what do you have to lose do you how do you do that do you just kiss him do you talk to him about it i think you send like a flirty text or you can say it in person but like you definitely should do it before asia so you can find out what that trip's gonna be and have a hot trip because also if he's not into you which i doubt he isn't He sounds like he is. Usually when there's chemistry, it's reciprocated.

If a woman feels it anyway, I should say. This doesn't apply to straight men. But it's usually reciprocated. Like, you know, the chemistry is called chemistry because it's going back and forth between two people or electricity or however you want to describe it. But you should go for it. You could send him a flirty text and be like, hey, I was just thinking about you. And I realized I've been thinking about you a lot. You?

You know, like it can be as innocent as that or you can be flirty and more sexual about it or whatever. But you or you can lay down and go, hey, as you may know, we have a cute little relationship going. I know that I'm the renter and you're the rentee or he's the renter. She's the landlord. I like that she's a landlord. I used to date one of my landlords. And I know that it might not be appropriate for you to ever make a move on me. So I'm just putting it out there. I'm open to a move being made on me. uh-huh I love that that's cute I honestly I think it's more because he's older than her

rather than the landlord thing the power dynamic language kind of makes me juggle a little dynamic because he's the landlord yes my sweetie is no no that's not a power dynamic first of all you know he probably feels like a little bit of like oh she's too young for me sort of thing if he's a nice guy that's probably exactly what I guess that is you know I shouldn't say it's not a power dynamic because it is for many people you know a power dynamic the landlord thing the landlord thing because that's somebody who's like you're paying rent to. But he's an Airbnb host.

Oh right. But there's no power dynamic in age. I think that's true. Unless you're an employer. I mean unless you have a hold over someone. That's why okay whatever. We can parse what a power dynamic is at another

time. But anyway make your move sister. Yes. Go after it. And that's today's episode of Dear Yelsey. Okay guys We have added more shows to my Little Big Bitch Tour because I'm coming all over. We added a second show at the Pantages in Los Angeles. So that's October 12th and Friday the 13th. We added a second show in Boston at the Wang Center.

September 29th and 30th is two shows in New York. I also have a show in East Hampton, New York, August 26th. We added a second show in Portland. So Thursday, November 2nd. Friday, November 3rd in Portland. November 4th and 5th in San Francisco. Two shows there. We added a second show in Seattle, November 10th and 11th.

Two shows, Boston, are November 16th and 17th at the Bach Center at Wang Theater. And I'm also coming to Toronto and Montreal and Ottawa and so many other cities. Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville. So I will see everybody at all of these shows. Thank you. Get your tickets at ChelseaHandler.com. Courtney Cope's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent

or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Courtney's feedback is in response to a written question, and therefore, there are likely unknown considerations given limited context. Also, just because you might hear something on the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing, beware of self-diagnosis. Diagnosis is not required to find relief, and you'll want to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnoses, if that's important to you. If you or your partner are in crisis and uncertain of whether you can maintain safety, reach out for support, like crisis hotlines and local authorities.

Have a safety plan. That can be done with a therapist, too. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseapodcast at gmail.com, and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert. Executive Producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at chelseahandler.com. I survived nine months in captivity,

and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. these are stories about what it takes to make it out alive listen to the survivor files with elizabeth smart on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone who thinks pride

and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse each week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions i'm obsessed i'm obsessed listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts did you hear the new episode of the hey jonas podcast we are at d23 so we'll see who stops by the cast of frozen stopped by kristin bell josh gad and adina menzel i auditioned for frozen what for kristoff they said okay what Are you going to be singing today? I said, I don't know.

That must have been why you didn't get it. Oh, you probably won. Plus, John Stamos, Hayden Christensen from Star Wars, and more. And I guess I can share that, uh... No way. Listen to the latest episode of Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport.

And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Each week, we talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. Everyone has a good time, and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show. We've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman, Adam Scott, Danny McBride, Ben Stiller, and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.