Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Moonwalking Away with Jameela Jamil

Episode Date: October 14, 2021

Chelsea is joined by special guest Jameela Jamil to discuss dancing on television, the exact words a man can say to make any woman fall for him, and how to expertly ghost an unwanted conversation at a social gathering. A 40-year-old feels bad about her neck. A chance encounter makes a woman question her sexuality. And a husband worries that his partner’s diet has gone too far.  *Executive Producer Nick StumpfProduced by Catherine LawEdited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert*****The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees. This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our special guest today is Jamila Jamil. You know her from The Good Place, you know her from the new show on HBO Max, Legendary. She's an actor, she's a host, and she's an advocate for disability rights, LGBTQ rights, body neutrality, and her work as founder of the I Weigh Community. So let's start off, tell our listeners about I Weigh Community. So I Weigh Community was something I started originally because I kept on seeing photographs of famous women with numbers written across their bodies, and those numbers aren't how many awards they won how many things they've achieved how much money they've even earned if that's something that's an important metric it's definitely one that we consider important in men

it was how much they weigh on a weighing scale in kilograms or pounds and I just couldn't believe that in 2018 20 years after I first developed an eating disorder that is still we are still confirming my greatest fear that a number on a scale determines my worth in society so one day I was pissed off and I wrote you know what I fucking weigh my orgasms my relationship with my boyfriend my social justice work my financial independence my social independence the eating disorder I've overcome I weigh the sum of my motherfucking parts I just tweeted it out I had a very small following on the internet and for some reason it just resonated and within three days I had 10,000 responses from women all over the world telling me what they weigh in those

same metrics so I started an Instagram account I thought it would be like the ice bucket challenge it would just be a short phase but now we are three years later we have almost one and a half million followers on Instagram we have a podcast and we have three bills that we're trying to get in motion I just spoke at the Supreme Court regarding looking after the mental health of young people when it comes to body image and diet culture but also it's now turned into a social justice space like a starting point for people I think a lot of people want to get involved in social justice especially in the last year and a half and they don't know where to start and it's not a super welcoming space you know even amongst the left amongst liberals there's that kind of

common saying about us that we're looking for we're looking for traitors and not converts and i do feel as though that's how social media really feels that it's not a safe space to do your learning to admit that you don't have all of the answers and i think that's really sad because it devalues progress so i decided to turn my way into a space where wherever the fuck you're at in your knowledge we don't care we're not here to judge you we're just so excited that you want to learn and i'm ignorant as fuck i don't know fuck about shit and so i'm bringing on these experts of all different ages and backgrounds to educate me and then you learn with me i'm not here to tell anyone what to do i'm just here to be the kind of mediator or you know you're i would just like to be a part

of your starting point because i've got so much growth to do and i don't believe in doing that stuff privately and presenting this image of being this kind of deity i believe in showing your mistakes and showing your vulnerability and being open that learning is cool and something that we should actively encourage each other to do until the day that we die so iway is a it's a community for learning about how to be you know how to show up better for each other well i just climaxed from all of that so impressive so impressive and just so great i fucking love it i love it all i love it all and the instagram handle for iway is just iway it's at i underscore w-e-i-g-h and the podcast is one of my favorite things i've ever been a part of i've learned so much i would love you to come

onto the podcast sometime. Are you kidding? Anytime, babe. Anytime. I'd be happy to. Okay, great. Well, then perfect. This is the perfect time to get started. First of all, I want to talk to you about how we met. We have a lot in common. So I was excited to find out that we're represented by the same publicist. So I reached out to you right away because I know you came up to me somewhere and introduced yourself once at some event. I don't remember. Do you remember where it was i have no idea where it was but i'm a big fan of telling women when i love them and i think it's because of how much shit we do here it's not to say that you don't have many millions of people who tell you that they love you but women tend to get a lot of shit sometimes

from each other but just generally from the mass public and so i take it upon myself that when i adore someone i just want to go and tell them i remember it was it was netflix just for laughs or something like that it was that netflix special that we did where they made us dance in between one line of jokes and I wanted to jump off the balcony oh I don't think I would have done I don't think that was where we met because I don't think I did Netflix as a joke I wouldn't have agreed to dance anywhere on television because I have no rhythm it was something where it was like a throwback of a 60s show Jay Leno was there and Tiffany Haddish and Billy Crystal and Margaret Cho oh oh it was like oh it was like a telethon it was a charity telethon it was a charity telethon

like throwback and we had to pop our heads out of like cardboard boxes and tell one-liners it was the oddest it was the oddest experience of my life yeah right it's so funny all of those things just blend together at a certain point don't they you just don't even know where you were or what event it was it's just all it's all so stupid but anyway I love your Instagram I love your messaging I love everything you say about women and respecting yourself and being positive and calling people out when they are negative towards women, which is such a toxic culture, which is the very reason we are in the situation that we are in, in a global way, but also in a more micro United States fucked up way where men are resisting the moment we're in because they don't seem to grasp the

seriousness of the situation. And they don't realize that their role in this situation is prolonging the conversation instead of shortening it. You know, what could have been a conversation has turned into a culture war because men can't collectively say, wow, they want to take it so personally. It's like, listen, we're not talking about you specifically every single time. We're talking about men as a collective have made a lot of bad mistakes and you are a product of a structure that was created long before you were here, but that you're still benefiting from. And now we have to change everyone's kind of, you know, you have to dismantle your understanding of what societal structure and falsehoods are and start appreciating and respecting the fact that

women, among many other marginalized groups, have been subjugated since the beginning of time for the benefit of white men. And so the treatment of women has to change. And I get so frustrated when I see them resisting that, when I see men asking stupid questions instead of really thinking about how they can affect change and how they can respect women more and how that can just have a ripple effect. You know, if every man just did a little bit extra and tried, you don't even have to believe what you're saying in the beginning. Just start doing it, you know, out of respect for history and the way things have been. And anyway, I think that I know you touch on a lot of different subjects on your Instagram, but I think we're like-minded in the

fact that it's a frustrating conversation to have to constantly remind people that something is inappropriate or not beneficial. Yeah, I totally hear you. I agree with everything you just said, but also I think it's important to point out that men don't just benefit from patriarchy. Men are also very harmed by patriarchy patriarchy did quite a big number on men like you you can see it in the suicide stats like it's not it might be statistically benefiting them in terms of like economics and you know social status etc in every way more so than us but their suicide rates are just getting higher and higher and younger and younger and so this is harming them they are hurting themselves they are hurting each other and then it's that toxicity that then spills out

over onto the rest of us and so it wouldn't just benefit us for them to start to deconstruct patriarchy and that hierarchy it's it's it's actually going to benefit all of them it would benefit our humanity as a whole for us to unpick this like toxic very formulaic and constructed ideal of gender do you know what i mean yeah i think it's all ships rise with the tide right You know, I think of it as a zero sum game. And it's like, no, if everybody's treated a little bit better, we're all going to be a little bit better, including men themselves. And we can obviously see, you know, I just had a conversation with a friend of mine and her husband, because I like to get involved in people's interpersonal relationships. and she, she was, my friend said, oh, I don't think they talk at all. And I said, are you talking to him? You know, like, are you guys talking? And she's like, we don't have that much to say to each other because the kids are, you know, have been taking up our time for the

last 10 years, which is a very common situation. And so I talked to him, you know, one-on-one and I said, Hey, you know, like, you know, the kids are growing up. You guys are going to have to get to know each other again. Like you're going to have to start spending time together again. You know, how do you want to do that? Like, how do you want to rekindle and remember the reason you got together in the first place. And I said, do you want to maybe go to therapy with her? And he balked. I mean, I hadn't seen a male reaction to going to therapy like that in a really long time, probably because I live in LA and everybody goes to therapy, you know, so nobody cares. But his reaction was so scary to me because he went, I'm not going to therapy.

I'm not. That's it's so stupid. That's whatever, you know, they all say the same thing. And I'm like, well, have you ever been to therapy? And he's like, no. And I go, well, then how do you know, they're all saying the same thing. And he goes, I'm not doing that. And I just thought, okay, obviously that's not a boulder that I'm going to be able to push uphill, but how sad, like how sad to be that shut down and not scared of what you would discover if you had to tap into your own emotions, because that's really what we're talking about here is the fear of a man being able to be vulnerable, being able to say, this was my trauma, or this is what screwed me up. and this happened to me or my father did this to me or whatever. It is so toxic and it breeds

and it's a cycle that you're passing on to your children. And so it's so important for men to be able to live in a different way than they've been living. You know, the idea that they're in charge and they have to take care of women and that they have to prove their masculinity over and over again is so passe even like if you look at some of the countries where they have the least even the countries that tend to be the poorest a lot of the time other countries that don't allow women to work and don't allow women equal position so it's like it's it's just harming men it's so nonsense it's so illogical to deny one half of the world basic rights equality and then also to deny yourself the chance of being able to share all of that to be able to share the way that you

feel share all of your thoughts share your trauma share your workload share your life I think it's incredibly depressing I also think there's a tremendous lack of friendship between men and women that is still kind of perpetuated in today's culture we still don't really have much discourse around friendships with men and women I don't think men see themselves as valuable to women outside of being lovers outside of being foragers and so well we've got postmates you know what I mean we don't fucking need men anymore for that like we've got doors and locks and gates so we don't need them to protect us anymore from a saber-toothed fucking tiger we are self-sufficient we can now have babies without men there's there's almost nothing that

those of us who have the privilege of for example being in the west or certain eastern countries those of us who have our own autonomy who are granted that autonomy don't need them and and they don't see that there's so much value in the companionship in the in the partnership in the friendship in the work relationship of of genders coming together I think it's sad that they feel like we must need them for them to have value why can't we just want them or enjoy them or just coexist alongside them maybe not yeah yeah and you would think it would be a celebrate you would think men would be like oh here's an independent strong fierce woman that's sexy and hot and unfortunately most men are intimidated by that most men are intimidated by a woman that can take

care of herself and say, OK, instead of celebrating the fact that a person has personhood and individuality, it becomes a threat, which is also just such a bummer. And men shouldn't feel that burden. They shouldn't feel the burden that they have to take care of the world. We're here to help you take care of the world. And, you know, we can we can do just as good of a job and we should all be working in concert, not against each other. They have an exhausting worldview. And I feel i feel very relieved in some ways i feel very resentful that i wasn't born a man because of how difficult it is to be a woman but in other ways i i feel relieved that i don't have to like i don't have to slowly grow into a nuclear bomb you know you don't have to murder somebody yeah

i don't like have all of that repressed i'm not being told you know my boyfriend is a very sensitive musician and he had to call out pitchfork a couple of years ago for referring to his music as sad boy music like this is just it's such a coded reductive term for someone who's truly just singing about his feelings and they're not all sad songs some of them are about his depression some of them are about different things that you know he just writes about the kind of spectrum of his feelings and immediately gets categorized just because he's not saying like terrible derogatory things about women as a sad boy a grown man talking about his feelings explicitly as a sad little boy like it's very very dangerous that in I think that was 2017 or 18 that that's still the

language we have around a man who's just confident in in being who he really is also men need to understand how attractive that is to us so when we see men being vulnerable when we see men I mean my boyfriend right now says things to me that I can't, I'm like, I'm going to write a book about everything you say to me as a handbook for what every man should say to every woman. I told him the other day that I found cellulite on my arm. He goes, that's so sexy. Every woman who has cellulite is so sexy. That's what makes you a woman. I'm like, Oh my God, that makes me want to fuck you. You know, when men say things like that and they, I had to, the other night we're in New York city and I said, Oh God, we've got to go get tampons. It was like two in the morning.

He's like, you're not buying tampons. He goes, I'll go get them. He goes, you've been buying tampons your whole life. I never want you to buy tampons again. Oh, my God. I love you. And when you come back, I'm going to stick that tampon somewhere. Oh, God. Wait, Chelsea, can you hear that? All of your listeners just collectively came at the same time. They all climax at the same time every episode, which brings us to my next subject. Jamila, what we do on this podcast is we give advice to callers on whatever subject matter is like kind of curtailed for your visit since you're our guest today and we know what you're passionate about. We have people who call it and these are real people. And this is like, this podcast gives me so much pleasure because

I can actually dole out advice to people who want it instead of it being unsolicited. You know, I'm going to take a quick break. Jamila, we're going to take a quick break and we will be right back and we are going to hear from some callers. So Catherine, our producer, Catherine, say hello. Hello. Hi. Hi. Hi. Let's go into a couple of callers so we can get that taken care of. Fabulous. Yeah. Does that sound good? Okay. So listen, what do we have coming down the pike? Okay. This first question comes from Peter. Dear Chelsea, I'm a 35-year-old man living in Ohio with my partner of nine years. We're married. Recently, my husband lost over 60 pounds. He's lost the weight through diet and exercise, which is great, but now it's come to the point where he

never wants to go out to eat because he wants to eat the exact same meal every day, and he works out several, more than two, times a day. He's stopped drinking and partaking in edibles as well. I originally was fine with it as he was doing it the healthy way, but now I'm getting bored and worried. I like to go out to eat, have margaritas, have fun. He no longer participates unless there's exercise involved because he, quote, can't manage his intake. Not to mention, I fell in love with him, not despite his big, bare body, but because of it. Now he just wants to be as skinny as possible. I'm worried the diet has gone too far, and I'm concerned about his health.

I have attempted to have a conversation with him about the eating habits, to which he says he's doing it in a healthy way, and his doctor has also confirmed that for him. I love him so dearly and, of course, want what is best for him. I can't talk him into joining me for therapy. What do I do? Peter. Oh, God. Oh, Jamila, let's get your thoughts on that. Hi.

Hi. Hi. Nice to meet you. Hi. Nice to meet you, too. Wow. God, that's such an interesting predicament that you're having. I mean, obviously, I don't want to pretend that I am any kind of doctor here, but I would say that from everything I know from my own personal experience and about 19 years working in activism for this space, it sounds like at least orthorexia developing which is kind of like a fear of food a fear around food and definitely disordered eating i think that that sounds really really complicated and

tricky to watch and then also frustrating because doctors are so fast to congratulate weight loss regardless of how it has been achieved or how fast it's been achieved or whether or not that method is attainable doctors are so obsessively fat phobic and they're taught to be so from medical school onwards so it's really hard to have someone who's kind of seen as a authority in that area congratulate or condone that behavior and also it's not guaranteed that your partner is being fully honest with his anxiety around food i think after such a long time together i think you owe it to yourself and your partner to be honest with them about your concerns have you i mean you've voiced your concerns already haven't you have you stressed

those concerns yeah as in a as nice as I can anyway he's sort of a avoidance attachment style so like he doesn't like to actually talk about issues like this so when we're eating the same thing every single day it's the same meal every single day I'm like let's mix it up let's try something else even if it's just like a variation of the type of food that we're eating he's like no, I know this works for me. And I know like my doctors told me that this is working. So it's more so I'm treading very lightly. Yeah. Which is not a fun place to be for you at all. I get it. I get it. First of all, nobody wants to eat the same thing every day. So why you have to eat the same thing every day is doesn't really make any sense. Right. His avoidance though is a big issue too.

I mean, if he can't discuss it, then there is a situation, you know, otherwise it would be easier to have a conversation around it. I would urge you, and Jamila, I'm interested to hear what you think, but I would urge you to press him on this, because this is having an impact on you now. So he's not just having an impact on his own life and using his doctor as his crutch

for doing everything right isn't enough. Like, that's great that his doctor thinks that, but you're his lover. What do you think? You know, he's obviously lost the weight and he's obsessing about it and not participating in any of the activities that you find fun or the socializing that you find fun, which has created a chasm in your

relationship. And that's not deniable because you're feeling this way. So he can pretend he doesn't want to talk about it or he can feel like he doesn't want to talk about it, but you want to talk about it. And I would impress it upon you to make that happen, you know, to make your feelings heard and your voice heard. Of course, you want to support his health, but not at the expense of your relationship no and i mean it's i've never had a call-in advice section where i'm actually face-to-face with the person writing in so i tend to be deeply ruthless in my advice and that's harder to do to your extremely angelic face but but fuck it right i have lived a very long very hard life and i have a pretty brutal stance on someone not being willing to investigate something

that is problematic for me as someone they share the home space with so if someone wasn't willing to go to therapy when they are exhibiting signs of something that is definitely troubling and something that is impacting me negatively if they're not willing to even come to therapy with me and to investigate it with an expert other than their very enabling probably quite fat phobic doctor then I would take that as a sign that my happiness and my feeling of safety or joy in a relationship isn't a priority to them in which case oh fucking hell there's seven billion people in the world that we could be with I frequently ask myself in relationships if I met you now would I ask for your number and I know that you've been together a really long time and this is and

I'm just that you know dickhead off the good place and what the fuck do I know I'm not supposed to interfere with your life but I do think that uh I do think that prioritizing your well-being is important and it sounds like he's certainly doing that with his own life and he's not really making your priority and it has to kind of be a combination you're not looking to interfere with him you're not trying to make him live a shorter or unhealthier or worse life you don't want him to feel bad about himself but also this is an obsessive lifestyle and you're being dragged into it in every aspect and you're being curtailed and you're probably going to have to go and socialize without him so he's now missing chunks of your life you're not witnessing each other's

lives together because of his obsession because of what sounds like a bit of an addiction to the eating disorder and so i think you kind of have to put your foot down otherwise you're unfortunately enabling this behavior like it's an own goal you know what i mean i think you should yeah i think it kind of has to be either you come to therapy like if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't be afraid of speaking to a mental health professional yeah because i think that's what it is with a lot of people with eating disorders is they're afraid to get help because they're afraid of getting fat if they get better they subconsciously know that there's something wrong and they're afraid that their biggest fear will come true and it's really important that your

partner cares enough about you to make sure that you feel comfortable in this relationship so I think it's a kind of either or situation okay yeah and I believe I believe that he cares I mean we've been together for like I said nine years we're obviously coming off of the pandemic too which was difficult because it was a lot of eating and a lot of drinking that we normally wouldn't do so like I gained a lot of weight but in the midst of that something shifted where all of a sudden I was the one just eating and drinking and then he was going to the gym every single day and working out and running and which is fine and great yeah it's all which is great and I'm glad like and he obviously feels better as you would if you worked out every single day multiple times a

day but it was such a sudden shift that I was like oh we're not doing margaritas three times the night which we normally wouldn't do but the pandemic was just very that for us so do you feel a bit left behind then is that also part of this that you feel a bit left behind do you feel a bit bad about your lifestyle because he's you know making such an effort with his lifestyle yeah and now I yeah I definitely feel that and it's mainly you know I've obviously talked to somebody about like my insecurities in this scenario and that like all of a sudden like when we got together like I was like stick thin and he was bigger and now it's sort of reversing so there is a part of my insecurity as well that I'm like might be pushing my feelings a little too far like maybe

it's not his fault I don't want to enable him either but there's also my part it's extremely accountable of you I didn't realize that when I was saying that earlier I still think that it sounds like there is a obsessive attitude towards food that needs to be remedied and I think all people with eating disorders have to be accountable to the people they live with and share space with to do everything they can to come out of that but exercise I think is fantastic I don't really care know how many times a day people do it obviously you can't have exercise addiction but I do think it's I do think it's really great that you are investigating that you're doing that with a therapist your own kind of insecurity you worried that if he becomes more attractive he would leave

you or actually weirdly that's not the case which normally like I would be but I'm pretty secure we're pretty secure in our relationship and that I don't think you know he's never said to me your body is changing or whatever like that so sometimes I feel bad when I'm like your body's changing. And obviously it's changing for the better, as was he when we got married. So I'm working on my insecurities on my own. But with him, I'm sort of just letting him go because he seems to be pleased with that. I think that's a great place to come from, though. You know what I mean? Like, it's great for you to open the conversation by even admitting what your issues are, because that's not placing blame on him. It's like, hey, I'm struggling with this a little bit.

And I think, you know, it's less accusatory and it's more of a couple's issue that you need to come together with a third party for. Right. You know, you have your insecurities and he has his. And it would be helpful to have a third party's kind of input or opinion on all of those things. And starting with your own insecurities is a great way to kind of kind of lubricate the conversation. I think that's really important. but also i don't think you can allow the fact that you're owning up to the fact that you have insecurities to make him feel like then well then that's just you and your issues it's very important to remind everyone that you know two things can be true at the same time you might have insecurities

you might feel like he's drifting away from your becoming i don't know like better than you or any of these things because he's living this you know societally more acceptable lifestyle than three margaritas a day but at the same time he also might be developing an obsession and so therefore as i said at the beginning i really i feel very very strongly about if you ask someone to at least just try speaking to a professional because something is happening something shifting in the relationships making you uncomfortable if they're not willing to do it then they're not being considerate of your feelings so hopefully you will just take a firm line with that and i think chelsea's right that opening with your own shit is going to i think soften him yeah i think

that's smart. And despite me coming on a podcast and talking about it, I generally don't talk about my insecurities with him a whole lot. That's sort of what I have a therapist for. So I think you're right. And also, you know, Jamil and I were just before you call talking about this, you know, male kind of toxicity and the way that men are raised in this world and to think that they're not allowed to talk to each other about those things. And because you're two gay men, you might not think it's it's the same thing you're both men you were raised as men you know you're not women you're not encouraged to talk about your feelings so this is a huge opportunity for you and for him and hopefully you guys can come out the other side of it but yeah with with nine years

of history you owe it to yourself to get a little deeper with him and to get a little bit more honest about your feelings and your insecurities and those that always opens up the door for the other person to do the same yeah if you're hiding shit from each other it's only going to build a space between the two of you because there's a lack of integrity then in in acting as though you're fine when you're not i don't mean that in a judgmental way i just mean that then you're not really being your full self you're not showing up as your full self with each other and and i i mean i think it sounds like you love each other very much and you have so much respect for him and you're being very thoughtful and careful with him in this like delicate situation and so i i have faith that

you're going to nail this. Okay. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Do you feel like you're going to be able to have that conversation soon? Yeah, I do. He did read some of it. So he knew the conversation I was having today and he even left the house because he has today off. So he left the house to make sure I wouldn't feel like I couldn't speak my truth or whatever. He knows the conversation could be coming. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is the perfect timing then. You can just explain to him the conversation you had with us and start it that way. Yeah. He must be kind of open if he knows you're going on a massive fucking podcast to talk about it i reckon you're not too far off i think he'll do it i think he'll try it what's there to be afraid of if there's

nothing to be afraid of then right he shouldn't avoid it i agree yeah yeah and you know there are lots of people that go through really extreme eating disorder phases in their lives you know the people have struggles and it doesn't mean it's permanent it doesn't mean it's forever it's a point in your life and a space and time in your life that takes up a lot of your time and a lot of your attention, but it's, you know, nothing's really that permanent. So, you know, don't be hopeless in any regard, just be very optimistic and forthcoming. And that, you know, breeds different sets of results than doing what you've done in the past or, you know, not expressing yourself and all that. But please keep us posted and let us know what happens

because we always love feedback. And I always love updates from all of our patients, even though we're not medical doctors. I like to think that I am. Even though I'm Indian, I maintain that I'm not she's a doctor by birth right we come out with a stethoscope around our neck just like straight out the pussy and on that note goodbye okay on that note goodbye thank you what a sweetheart i know isn't it sweet it's you know what when i started doing this podcast i was like doing it in a little tongue-in-cheek and i thought oh we'll get some maybe quasi-serious things and then people start calling in with real fucking problems and real life situations so it's really good. You give great advice, by the way, Jamila. So you're a great addition to this. I'm quite

blunt. Catherine, who do we have on deck? Okay. Well, I think that's the only caller we'll probably do for today. I have someone else, but there are a couple other questions that I want to make sure we get to with Jamila. This question is from Elle. Dear Chelsea, I was recently on a girl's weekend and got really high on an edible, higher than I've ever been. We were with a few people I'd never met, one of them being a lesbian couple. And I started to get attracted to this one girl. I've never questioned my sexuality before when it hit me like a ton of bricks. I've never been attracted to a guy like this. With them, I've always just thought, oh, they'll do, I guess.

I just figured I'd never found the right one. Now I can't stop thinking that I might be gay, and I'm kind of freaking out about it. What do I do? Well, first you should read Glennon Doyle's book, Untamed, and then you could read Love Warrior also, which that was the prelude to Untamed. But I think it's very, very common to fall in love with people, not to fall in love with sexes. And so another construct of society that we are subject to and products of, but is not the way that it necessarily is. And I think when you have a strong, strong kind of electrical reaction

to somebody, you should always pay attention to that because chemistry is so important between people, whether it's a love interest or not, you know, when you have a vibe with somebody, it's undeniable and you should, you know, and it doesn't matter whether you're gay or whether you're straight. We live in 2021, you know, and I know some states are worse than others, but we're moving towards the future. So just be accepting of your feelings, first of all, and don't ever try and push those away because that is the first thing that people do that is wrong. You should always just accept what you're feeling, let it come up and sit around and think about it for as long as you want. But that feeling is there for a reason. Women's intuition is everything. And I

can't stress enough how we forget how strong our intuition is. And when we don't act on it, we're not serving our own best interests or the interests of others. We're just kind of putting like a pin in something that is never going to go away. So I would encourage you to explore that further for sure. Explore your relationship with that woman, you know, or create a friendship or reach out to that person. Did she say in the letter if she had reached out yet or she just felt that strong chemical. Yeah. I would encourage you to explore that because that's what life is about is about seizing opportunities and listening to your feelings. And that's something that we're talking about a lot that I think women have an advantage over men with. We do listen to our

feelings, but sometimes we learn that we overanalyze a situation or we think we have to define a situation. And it's not necessarily the case for anything in life to have to define it with such structure. Jamila, what are your thoughts on this? I think she should hold it in, obviously, all of the things that I write on my Instagram every day. Just bottle it up. Never tell a soul. No, I agree with everything you said. I have no further questions, Your Honor. You know, like that everything you've said is exactly how I feel. And I think that, well, I hope that the next generation have more of an understanding of fluidity regarding gender or sexuality or many of these different things. And so learn from the kids, listen to the kids, definitely read

untamed and start, you know, filling your timeline with more queer people. So you can see that it's not this terrible thing that involves being always ostracized and shunned and living a terrible heathen lifestyle. It's just a very normal, happy life. It's a much happier life than when you're denying yourself your basic instincts. Yeah, I would say read untamed and then you're not going to have any questions left because that is the definition of somebody doing the thing that she thought she could never do. How exciting though, how exciting to find that out about yourself at any age. Better late than never. Jesus. And how exciting to have that charge of meeting somebody and having those feelings. That's exciting too. I mean, people go through their whole

lives and say they don't feel that. So don't ever ignore that kind of fire, you know? All right. Well, thank you for writing in and definitely keep us posted. Yes. After you express your interest to said potential love interest, please let us know how that goes and what happens. We need all the details, please. Well, I've got one more question for the two of you. This comes from Patty. Dear Chelsea, here's my question based solely on vanity. I just turned 40 and I'm slowly watching myself adopt my mother's double chin slash turkey neck. I absolutely swoon over how beautiful your skin is and how great you always look. I'm hoping you have a skincare routine that doesn't cost a fortune and some sort of advice to help slow the seemingly inevitable turkey neck. I'm a yoga

teacher and a ski instructor. I take care of my body. I eat healthy, drink my water. And other than my neck, I am very happy with the way my body looks. Help, Patti. That made me really sad. Let me just, Jamila had her head in her hands when she was listening to this because it was upsetting to her. And why don't you, why don't you start Jamila? Because this is your area. This is, this is definitely your area of expertise. I mean, this is just daylight robbery. This is a woman who has had her gratitude for life somewhat stolen from her, like she's had her self-love stolen from her, her self-worth compromised. This is so unfair. This is such a, she's such a victim of patriarchy.

I mean this with no judgment of her. The fact that women have been taught to be afraid of time and gravity, something that we relish in men. You know, we shoot men on the cover of magazines. josh brolin we shoot every single tiny crevice in hd you know and yeah well first of all what about that gq cover with what's his face jonah hill i mean yeah look at they made jonah what about that cover i mean men are congratulated just for deciding that they're sexy without even having to be sexy i know although he is quite sexy but yeah like it's uh the gray hair the salt and pepper like we don't use these words for women it's so insane like when i was looking at the

film for Ocean 8 for Ocean 8 Oceans 8 you know all of the promo came out all of their covers came out and they were photoshopped to the point where they all look like fucking emojis you know it just I didn't recognize any of these women who I grew up with who are only like maybe five or ten years older than me and they look younger than me and and and we as in like us public figures are kind of weaponized against women like the one who just called in to think that all of us I mean look first of all what we think a 40 year old should or shouldn't look like is dictated to by media who owns media men they own the magazines even if there's a woman editor she's answering to a man the studios owned by men film and music labels owned by men everything all of the social media

platforms owned by men most of the products sold to women owned by men men are creating this falsified standard of beauty and societal expectations that women are just being adhered we're 80 percent of the market we are 80 percent of consumers and so the only way to make sure people are going to buy things the most like foolproof way to make sure that people are going to consume is if they feel bad about themselves as if they feel depressed the more sad you are the more empty you feel the more likely you are to go and buy something that is going to fill that emptiness and so that's why we are so targeted and manipulated to hate ourselves to spend every single day of every single minute of our lives hating ourselves and being distracted thinking

about things like reversing time and gravity which is impossible unless you are keanu reeves aside from him it's impossible and so we're being distracted and our eyes being taken off the ball of our happiness our mental health our safety our well-being our entrepreneurship it doesn't like it doesn't even have to be business-wise i'll just our growth is being stunted by these pressures and these expectations that were created in a lab by a bunch of insecure asshole men on top of that i also find it upsetting that people in privilege are used as the like with the most amount of privilege possible are used as the standard of what everyone should look like when we are given so much help so much hair makeup so the like a better quality of food uh fucking facials and

and an easier lifestyle and a lack of financial stress we're not running around after four children as single mothers like working five jobs not having time to even fucking sleep never mind preen ourselves the way that public figures do this frustrates me from every single angle and i wish i could just grab this woman especially after the last year and a half where we've realized how short life is and what a privilege it is to grow older and to show signs of the life that you have been so lucky to continue to live when so many people have died so young and just infuse her with gratitude and self-love and not this hysteria around the most the most natural and inevitable thing on earth something that we love in men sorry amen amen jamila amen

i think yeah that is a great way to put it you know i don't think you should compare yourselves to us as your as your your standard bearer because i even struggle with stuff to do because with lasers and stuff and injections i used to do all that stuff and i really try not to do any of it anymore because it is a negative, negative spin cycle. Like it is, it's cyclical. And you, once you get on the ramp, it is very hard to get off of it. So if you can move into acceptance and understand that your wrinkles and that things that you don't like about yourself are a part of who you are and a part of your experience and aging. And I know that doesn't sound sexy or attractive, but it adds to your soul and it adds to your self-esteem because there's nothing hotter

than having self-confidence and self-confidence is something that comes from within you don't get that from changing the way that you look because if you change something about your neck you're going to find something else you don't like either and so i would just really encourage you to move into acceptance and know that that is a sign of you having a good healthy full life you sound like you have your shit together so have it together all the way around agreed agreed so agreed such a shame and so young 40 was she 40 40 yeah that's so young that's like four years older than me and i would also just want to say like you don't have like i'm 46 i don't like my neck either guess what i i forgot about it a long time ago you know what i mean like i'm not gonna do anything about

it i it doesn't matter to me that much and maybe you're gonna say oh well your neck is beautiful yeah i get a lot of shit i get a lot of facials i get a lot of lasers i get all of that stuff done And they are expensive, unfortunately. But I also try to make sure that I'm not ever setting an unreal example. You know, I'm not going to get a facelift. I'm not going to get plastic surgery. I'm just not doing that shit. So, you know, there are things about me that I do not like and that I just say, fuck it. That's part of who you are. And it's sexier to embrace it and forget about it because you fixate on things and then you don't, you know, and it's up to you to kind of have that mental game with yourself where you're a little bit more above it. And I think what separates people from people with lack of confidence from people with more confidence is just it's just a mental game. It's just like athletes being better than other athletes. You can rise above all of that and you can have your self-confidence that we all have. We all have a reservoir of it. It's just whether or not you're able to tap into it. And I'm telling you that you're capable enough to tap into it. It's insane that with everything else that we're

supposed to fear you know rape murder being anywhere on our own whatsoever everything males wearing flip-flops men wearing flip-flops uh on top of that we're supposed to fear elbow fat and armpit rolls and our necks no one ever looks at our necks no one cares about our necks our necks have nothing to do with anything other than keeping our head up above our bodies like our earlobe plasty i feel like that was just like i knew the pandemic was coming and the world was going to end as soon as they invented earlobe plasty the fuck who the fuck cares about our fucking earlobes it's so it's so frustrating it's so frustrating we're bleaching our assholes where i i personally refuse to participate in any of it i had my breasts reduced because of

back pain when i was younger and it's not because i don't have any insecurities i've got body dysmorphia i don't fucking eat in sort of 20 years i'm covered in scars from head to toe of my body because of my disability i i just cannot say i'm such a stubborn bitch that i know that there are a small group of men profiting from my self-hatred and so every time i go and pay them for the hatred that they infused me with i would feel like i'm betraying myself it's not like a it's not i'm not on a pedestal you know here or like just sitting here like on my soapbox fucking ranting everyone I'm just saying that someone is profiting from every moment that you spend shitting on the way that you look or obsessing over the way that you look or probably magnifying I bet there's nothing

I bet there's no excess skin on her chin from all the way that she's talking she sounds like all of my friends who are my age who are all talking about these things that I cannot see when they're pointing them out to me we have been given like a psychosis around our appearance and that's because of fucking fucking fucking fucking filtering and photoshop that has made us think that these things don't exist and we're all supposed to look like kaya gerber forever we're not supposed to look like kaya gerber forever or ever and that's okay that's good variety is hot older women are hot yeah older women are hot all the women that i'm attracted to all older than me yeah all right well i hope that settles your question and i hope that uh yeah yeah keep us posted and make us and let

us know if you got over yourself can i um can i just quickly add one thing as well chelsea tell me if you agree with this can we suggest just to try this for anyone out there this is what i did when when i hit like my peak of self-hatred i decided to try an experiment of taking all the money that i wanted to spend on things that were going to you know quote unquote fix my appearance and i put it in an actual piggy bank and put that money towards therapy instead i decided to fix the inside rather than try to fix my outside for everyone else i'm not a motherfucking billboard for everyone else to appreciate i'm a human being i deserve a good human experience on this earth sorry to interrupt oh no i appreciate the interruption and on that note we are going

to take a quick break so uh you can hear an ad and then we'll be right back jamila do you have a question for me that's a new thing we're doing we're having our guests ask me a surprise question you struck me a really long time ago like i was back in england when i first became aware of you years and years ago and you were just so different to everyone else on the television it felt like you were not dictated by whether or not people approved of you and I was wondering if that's something that you really genuinely feel on the inside like an indifference to other people's opinions of how you're supposed to live and if so where does that come from? Yeah I tend to give off the vibe that I don't have high regard for other people's opinions

of me and I would have to say at that point in my life when I was doing Chelsea Lately I did not have regard for what people thought of me. That didn't occur to me. I just thought, I'm having a great time. Let's look at the people around me. I was very present in what I was doing. I definitely did go through a bout of insecurity and self-consciousness later on, probably four or five, six years ago. I think when I left Netflix and I left my TV shows, and that had been my identity for so long, and the regard that people had for me felt like it was shifting when really, it was my regard for myself because I didn't have the things that defined me in that way. You know, I'm not, I'm not married. I don't have a family. And that was when I decided to go

into therapy. When I started to feel and to care what other people, how they perceived me was when I knew I had lost the plot a little bit. You know, I just thought, wait, wait, wait, this isn't who you are. This isn't, you're not, this isn't fierce. This isn't strong. This is actually, I felt very weak in a way, which is an okay feeling to have as long as you're solution oriented about it. You know, I didn't want to live in that weakness or that insecurity. It felt foreign to me. And I didn't like feeling that way. I didn't like thinking about what people thought about me. So it was a lot of work to get back to what I thought about myself, because that's really what it comes down to is how, how do you revere yourself? Right. You know, and do you revere

yourself. And I got back to that place, you know, what other people think of me, it can bother me, but it's not where I live. And I don't, I don't spend a lot of time scrolling through comments about people who don't like me. I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the people that say no to me. You know, if you're pitching a show and you get an offer from one place, so many people can focus on all the people that say no. When in reality, all we all ever need in life is one person to say yes you just need the one yes you just need to have chemistry and and fall in love with one person you know you don't have to feel that way from everybody you don't have to have everybody love you and and it's not a realistic endeavor anyway so I would say yes what you saw

was real but I'm not somebody who has never suffered from insecurity or self-consciousness you know I I have and I didn't like that either so I made sure to kind of dig my way out of that with therapy which is what i did and now i'm in a much different place but yeah you know i i definitely care what people think to a degree i just don't let that be my north star yeah i don't want to hurt anyone but i couldn't really give a fuck whether or not anyone likes me i hate everyone so like no one's like no one has to like me right right it's not a yeah i've also i also have this new philosophy that i've been subscribing to is that i don't need someone to like me in order for me to like them because that used to be a barometer for me like if I if I didn't like

someone I found out they were a big fan I'm like oh I do like them it's like no no no no that's not how it works you don't just like people because they like you I decide who I fucking like and who I don't like and just because someone doesn't like me doesn't preclude me from liking them I like that it's a good philosophy it doesn't matter for me whether they like me or not I normally don't like them I'm a real asshole well yeah I think that's a common I think that's a common feeling for a lot of people you're not alone very liberating i think if we really ask ourselves like do we like everyone no then why do we expect everyone to like us this shit is mutual i think we need to exhibit more reciprocity of uh just like yeah sometimes i'm talking to someone

you know like when you're trying to be polite or you're trying and then you realize like you're talking to somebody and you're trying to be polite and you're trying to engage with them and then you're thinking why why the fuck am i going making all this effort for someone that i'll never ever see again just so that they can have a good experience with me and I want to leave them with a good feeling that's okay but I don't want to you know why am I bending over backwards for a stranger and you know what I do what so I learned this from a guy at a party when you join a conversation at a social function which I almost never go to because I am such an introvert and a hermit but when I do find myself one of those as soon as I clock the conversation is not

interesting you just smile and point your fingers and then moonwalk out of the conversation just in a quite a cheerful way and everyone's so confused by what's happened that they don't feel bad about themselves or rejected so if anyone else would like to utilize that moonwalking out of a conversation is actually the perfect exit when you're bored yeah but i have to fucking learn how to moonwalk then and i have no rhythm i'm a white jew i have no you know who has rhythm though my boyfriend he can teach me how to moonwalk. Well, I'm glad you don't get, I guess the real question, the answer to my question is that you don't give a shit what people think about you. The answer to your question to me is that you don't give a shit what people think about you. So that's good. We got that much.

It was a process. It was a process. We're taught from as soon as we can understand that women have to be liked by everyone, even though everyone's got such individual tastes and needs, we have to meet all of them. And that just feels like an exhausting, impossible task. So let's just try and please ourselves. Yeah. Jamila, you really brought it today. We have some like experts and doctors that call in and I mean, you fucking killed it. You're better than all of those people. I mean, you really know your shit. No, I do. I do. I just adore you. I love your Instagram. If you guys don't follow Jamila, please do. It's at Jamila Jamil. Am I saying it right? Jamila Jamil. It's at Jamila Jamil official on Instagram because a six year old young boy from Syria

took my real name. So that's fine. He can have that. Isn't that always the way? Yeah, exactly. That's the least we can do for him. And I want to thank you for coming on today and thank you for imparting your wisdom with us and to us and to our callers. And I hope that I get to see you again in person soon. Same. Well, look, this wisdom comes from 36 years of immense and repeated failure. So at least I've done it so that you don't have to, to anyone listening. I fucked it all up already. Yeah, I would love to see you soon. Hopefully. We're both in Los Angeles, I think. So let's find each other when all this bullshit is over. For sure. We will for sure. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure. I appreciate you taking the

time and I want to let you go now. And yes, hit me up and then let me know when you want me to come on any of your podcasts, honey, and I would be happy to. All right. Bye. Okay. Have a great day. Bye. Bye, Catherine. Bye. Thanks. Thank you. Bye bye. And if you have a question or you and a loved one have a question, please write in to DearChelseaProject at gmail.com.

Oh, and everybody, I am picking back up my Vaccinated and Horny Tour. If you don't have tickets, please get them. ChelseaHandler.com. So please get your tickets. I can't wait to see everybody. Okay, guys. Thanks.