Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - My D*ck is Exhausted with Boom Boom "Jeff" Hiller

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

Jeff Hiller joins Chelsea in NY to talk about finally booking the role that launched him, why casting directors love to give you a soft ghost, and the *one* little problem that kept him from becoming a pastor.  Then: A couple wonder if they should be opening up or breaking up.  A gay son wants to get his mom to stop pushing her religious agenda on him.  And a daughter struggles when her mom gets remarried to her Uncle Daddy. * Pick up Jeff’s book Actress of a Certain Age here! * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. each week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions yeah i'm obsessed i'm obsessed listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts i'm hoda kotb host of the podcast joy 101 with hoda kotb you know i'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy like when my friend henry winkler offered advice to

aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Hi, Chelsea. Where in the world are you right now? I'm in London. I'm in London. I just finished Glastonbury. I still have my voice intact. I have my body parts intact. It was a wild, wild ride. I'm hoping, well, I don't know what kind of photographs are out there, but there might be some. Things got pretty carried away, as one can imagine. And I had never been to Glastonbury before, and now I know what it's all about. And it was ridiculous. It is one of those ones you hear about always being like very

epic, very wild, but very fun. Yeah, I usually don't like like a music festival just by the nature of being outside and like the heat and all those people. But Glastonbury just has a different ring to it. And so I had to come up and I had so many friends that are going. And so, yes, we had a wild, wild time. And let's just say I dosed a lot of people. Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. With your LSD that you're no longer traveling. I don't travel with drugs. I don't travel anywhere with drugs. I don't have drugs. I don't do drugs. She's drug free. As long as I'm in London, that's the story I'm sticking to. And my name is Chelsea Handler and I am drug free. I only like alcohol. Excellent. Well, we have a really fun guest today. I know. He's so funny.

Oh my God. You guys know him from Somebody Somewhere. He's hilarious and he has a new book that's out. And his name is, well, his Instagram name is Boom Boom Hiller. And that's what I call him during the entire episode. But his name is Jeff Hiller. Okay. We're sitting here with Jeff. I'm going to call you Boom Boom. Do I want to call you Boom Boom because that's your Instagram handle? That is my Instagram handle. Okay, Boom Boom Hiller is here, everybody. For anybody who knows him on Instagram.

And for those of you who know him from his hit show on HBO with Bridget Everett, Somebody Somewhere, which is in its third season, right? You're about to shoot your third season or is it about to air? The third season already aired, yeah. Third season already aired. Okay, Boom Boom, otherwise known as Jeff Hiller, has a new book called Actress of a Certain Age, my 20 year trail to overnight success. This is a very, very, very funny book. And there's a lot

of highlights. So let's get into it. First, I want to talk about your upbringing because you grew up in Texas. Yeah. Okay. As a gay boy, as a gay boy, man, you were yet a man, right? A little bit of a girl. Yeah. And your childhood sounded, I mean, your school experience just made me want to start a group like i want to start a parenting group for parents to make sure that their children don't treat other children so horrendously i wonder if there are actual parents out there that are proud of having their children be bullies i mean there's all kinds right that's right of course there are all kinds but it's just harrowing to go through i mean i was bullied i was a bully at certain points i was yeah because i had to flip the switch i was like fuck this shit i'm gonna be the fucking

bully if you're going to bully me. Oh, my God. I think I'm I think I'm feeling like support for bullies now. Yes. It's so beautiful. I need a support group for other bullies. Actually, that's actually what I'm trying to get at. So thank you for helping me get there. But your childhood in school and the torturing or the teasing and the bullying just sounded terrible. And it was bad. It was right. I mean, and when you look back at that now, what do you think do you think it helped build character i mean it probably did i wouldn't say that that's a reason to encourage it for your children but i yeah i think it did i think that's why i'm funny now i think i that was like a self-coping mechanism you know to try and be like

you know like let me make you laugh so you won't hit me yeah absolutely you're like i have to find out like in one scene you're on the bleachers with somebody and you're like why do you keep kicking me why and he says it's because of the way you hold your books in school so you were because you were holding them to your chest like a like a little girl and so they were making fun of you for not holding your books to the side like the way a strong man should hold his book exactly and to this day i can't hold my i can't if i ever hold myself like this i'm like oh butch it up you know i have to put my hand don't get a briefcase you're gonna walk around holding it to your chest looking like a real asshole you know well i mean when they say builds character it's

always like you know i remember going through high school and going through those periods of time where some girl would call me up and be like, we're going to kick the fucking shit out of you tomorrow. And you're like, my mom's like, it's okay. Everything's going to be, I'm like, it doesn't sound like it's going to be okay. And how is this character- That's so sweet of your mom, though.

It's like character building. Like, I don't know how it builds character because it seems like a nice pat answer for when the bullying is happening. But I wonder if it really does build character. It definitely builds a resourcefulness for you to deflect, deter, and wiggle. yeah and I and I mean whatever I think it's always nice to find the silver lining but I

wouldn't it was it was really I think I could have gotten sufficient character with just you know 80% less 80% yeah no I when I was reading and I was traumatized for you I was like this poor kid I was like no wonder I mean no I mean no wonder I don't know what but no wonder like No wonder you're like this. Just no wonder you're like this. Absolutely. So you grew up in Texas and you fantasized about becoming a pastor, but that wasn't going to work because...

Big ol' homo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And thank, I mean, like, thank God. I don't think I would have been happy being a pastor, you know? And I feel like if I had been born straight, I probably would be a pastor right now and have like, you know, a nice life, I guess.

But I think I would have not been able to perform in the way I wanted to perform. So it's good. It's good. I got to be gay. Well, you're still a churchgoer, though. You like church. Yeah. Which is kind of similar to your character on the show.

Yes, yes. You're kind of pastor-like on the show as well. Yeah, yeah. And that's just a coincidence. They had written that. They didn't write it for me. How funny. I know.

Isn't that weird? Yeah. But yeah, yeah. That was just a beautiful little coincidence. And I do like church. I don't go every Sunday or anything like that. You don't? No.

And my husband's Jewish, so it's not like... So there's a conflict. Yeah, exactly. Well, congratulations on getting a husband. See, everything worked out for you, okay? That's all any girl needs is a husband. It's true. It's all I've wanted since I was playing with my dolls.

The book talks about all sorts of things. It talks to you. You quote lots of different memoirs of lots of different famous people, myself included, I believe I was in there. And you also go over lots of humiliating auditions and on-camera roles. So let's start with some of those. What do you think was your most... I find auditioning degrading also.

Like I find that to be an insult to anyone's, first of all, you have such beautiful teeth. I just want to say that. Thank you. I'm very much into teeth and mouths and I like when they are put together well. And yours, I don't know if they were put together or if that happened naturally, but they're nice.

You know, I just went to the dentist and the hygienist was like, there's nothing to clean. You must floss. You must actually floss. And I was so proud. God, that is something to be proud of. I was like, yes, give me a star.

Every time I go to the dentist, she's like, oh, my God, when was the last time you were here? I was like, two fucking months ago, bitch. You told me to come every two months. I told her to come every two months? Yeah, and I don't know if she's trying to hose me because she knows I'll just pay for it because I care so much about dental hygiene. But she'll be like, oh, there's a lot of plaque buildup. I'm like, that's impossible. I just got here two months ago.

I haven't even eaten anything since I last saw you. How could there be plaque buildup? That is shocking. sometimes I actually just left one dentist for another because I felt like the other dentist was like shaking me down it was like every time I went there there was something else crazy wrong you're like you need an x-ray it's like uh do I I'm pretty sure my teeth are set like I'm not pretty sure you're not gonna find a fucking cavity now 50 exactly exactly but um but then I went to this new one and they were like no we still need an x-ray and I was like maybe they're all shaking

us down. But to go back to auditioning, you know what? I feel like my self-esteem is so low that I'm just like, I deserve to audition. So I'm like, let me dance for you. Let me dance for you, daddy. Yeah. But I mean, some of your on-camera work, your early on-camera work was as degrading as an audition. Absolutely. Let's talk about the one in the stall where you had to basically, well, there's two scenes that I'm thinking of right off the top of my head. One is the butthole, waxing the butthole and then the second one was the stall by the way i don't want us to explain either of these i just want them to be like out there right out there i mean elaborate please okay for our listeners these are fun stories that are within the book along with many other

fun stories but i'm going to focus obviously on the most humiliating aspects which i truly appreciate so i got hired to be in this sitcom that was originally supposed to be a straight woman and they sold it to Logo and they're like, can you just make the lady a homo? And they're like, sure. And so then one of the scenes they were like, we want to spice it up, make it more gay. So I was playing an esthetician and they were like, we're going to have you do laser hair removal on your client's butthole while you're doing this scene. And I was like, so I have to just stare at an actor's bare butthole? And they're like, he'll be wearing a modesty pouch And you're like, what am I going to be wearing?

A fucking face mask? Who gives a shit what he's wearing? And also, a modesty patch just covers your balls and your dick. It doesn't cover the whole. So it was just like staring into... An abyss. Yes, exactly. What did you call it in your book?

A chocolate Cheerio? What did you say? Leather Cheerio. Leather. I want everyone to visualize a leather Cheerio. And if you can't find one, get a mirror, put it on the ground. Take your pants down and do a squat, okay? Then there was another scene in a bathroom

where you had to simulate, you were like, you're giving a blowjob, right? Yeah, I was hired as a gay hooker and I was, yeah, on my knees giving a blowjob. I mean, you know, I wasn't actually, it was for FX. For the purposes of this story, I would like to pretend that you were actually giving a blowjob, okay?

I'd do anything for this job, anything. but i just had to yeah stand up sit on my or be on my knees and hold this background actors but you know like be going like this and then i had to go like peek around and say my one line and then they ended up not even using that footage they just had me come in and do audio later audio they came in and have a hand loop the which adr means audio for the movie when he's not even on camera now and then being directed by a guy that's not the director no he was just like just because it was only one line and he was like oh they want a pretty flamboyant and so i jokingly did it the line was that's just so wrong or that's just wrong and i

went like that's just wrong and i was like joking like like that and he was like yeah that's perfect thank you and then i was done yeah god so humiliating right i mean this business is so fucked up i know it is it's unbelievable the things that people have to go through i mean i know but also if that show had called me back i would have gone in a heartbeat of course of course you would have if they called yeah i mean you know what i mean there's not a lot to stop you you you you talk a lot about you know achieving success and how long it's taken you and that you would always kind of use as a barometer other people's like when was stupid but yes well it's not because i think it's very common you know people have these timelines and everything people

get very rigid about when they're going to achieve certain things in their life. Like, when am I going to be successful? I remember always looking at Jennifer Aniston that she got friends when she was 32 years old. So I related to this part of your book because I always thought as long as by 32, if I've got my, I have until I'm 32, like I always had that in my head based on her success, which is, you know, so silly and so stupid. But then I would move the line sometimes. Yeah, of course, because you get older and you're like, why am I still fucking waiting tables you're like oh my god how long is this gonna go on I know and I was in LA for pilot season and I heard a podcast with Megan Mullally and Nick Offerman and they were like we both got

our shows at 39 and I was 39 and I was like I've got one pilot season left and of course nobody wants to hire you when you're like please please hire me I've only got this one you season left yeah so talk about how Somebody Somewhere came along that really just came right out it came right for you it did it's i mean a perfect role for you i know after reading your book i'm like this is kind of exactly who this character is i know and it was again it was like just whatever fate i have a not a friend a person i know i write about this in the last chapter but it's like a sponsor no no just a frenemy i think is more of the word i'm looking for not even a frenemy just someone i'm like oh what do you what do you do anyway this person told me

a friend that you don't like it's a friend that you don't like let's just say what it is we all have them this person said to me the reason you got your sitcom is because your mom died and so like all of her good energy went out in the world and like helped you yeah and and part of me is like what are you talking about also like don't say that to people they're gonna kill their mom to get a sitcom but i do kind of feel like there is some truth to that because it does mean somebody somewhere yeah that doesn't feel like a sitcom to me so that's where you threw me that doesn't feel like a sitcom I think I feel like sitcoms I think of like multi-cam live audience you know what a dream it would be left to oh well for you it would be because you're gay

but for me that's like I fucking hate that shit and I love live audience because I stay I'm a stand-up but I I like cameras and like your own multi-cam did I barely I mean it was it was about one of my books and then they forced me to be in it and it was just not it was not running on all cylinders that's for sure that's not my world like I have to be real I can't be like that you know what I mean I can't be like doing things 50 times and over you know like in front of a live audience like I find that very cheesy yeah there's no improvisation like I like to be being able to improvise so a sitcom is not for me that's not my bucket in case you haven't fucking caught on okay see that's what's so great about you is you

know yourself so well. Don't you know yourself well at this age? How old are you right now? I'm 49. Okay. I'm 50. I just turned 50. So we're the same age. Yeah, exactly. So I would, don't you think you know yourself really well too? I guess I'm not as emphatic about it. Do you think that you're actively learning new things about yourself? I mean, it's not as frequent that I'm learning something, you know, really shocking about myself as it was in like your twenties or something, but yeah. What was something that you found out about yourself in your 20s that shocked you? Well, that I was fine with rejection.

Because I told my mom I wanted to be an actor. And she's like, oh, you could never handle the rejection. And I was just like, oh, OK. And then I started doing it. And I was like, this is nothing compared to getting bullied in high school or whatever. No shit. I was like, a soft ghost where they never tell me if I got it? Totally fine.

Rather than getting hit in the head with a fucking trapper keeper. Absolutely. Absolutely. I would choose that any day of the week. Excuse me. I just quiet burped just for our guest. I love that boom boom is your Instagram name because I call everything a boom boom. Like when I say lower the volume, I always go lower at one boom boom. Like if I'm talking to someone about a remote, I always say, oh, did you like if someone farts ago, is that a boom? Did you make a boom boom? And I mean, boom boom is applicable to like if my bra strap is like, I'll say like, can you like tighten it? Like if they're getting me dressed, I'll say, can you tighten it one boom boom? Like I use boom boom all the time. So I just love that that's your Instagram name. That was what first drew me to you. Well, I feel like when I started it, it was because whenever anybody would say anything slightly sexy, I'd be like, boom, boom.

But then recently. You realize how unsexy that is? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. and also people told me that a lot of a lot of when people were children a lot of parents called taking a crap a boom boom yeah like

I call it a should do be but there is a boom boom factor to that too I didn't want to throw your name in shit right there I actually left that part out but you brought it back so good for you still learning about myself yeah you're still learning so we all are

so talk to me now about the success of being on this show for three seasons what it means to you about your relationship with Bridget, whom I love. And of course, you guys mean Bridget Everett, who Jeff stars with on Somebody Somewhere. Bridget once told me we were on the vineyard, Martha's Vineyard, at Amy Schumer's house, and she told me one of the funniest sex stories I've ever heard. One of the most enthralling sex stories I've ever heard. And I could not ever get it out of my mind.

But I will leave that to Cher on her own. But tell me about working with her. Tell me about working on the show. Well, I was like, I admired her. I was like, I was kind of like the character and that I was like obsessed with her. I just I always went and saw her shows in New York and stuff. And then she just out of the blue emailed me and said, would you be would you be willing to audition for my HBO show? And I was like, temping.

I was like, yeah, I guess I'll, you know, deign to do it. And I read the character and I was like, oh, you know, this is me. I think she wrote this for me. And they were like, no, we didn't. We didn't. They didn't. No, they didn't. No, and so many people have told me that they also auditioned for it.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So I know. I mean, it doesn't matter. I got it. Yeah, it doesn't matter, really. We need to look forward, not in the rear view. But you used to always go see her perform, right?

And her, like, cabaret. She performs cabaret, right? Exactly. But it's like, it's not like. She's incredible. She has an incredible voice. Wild and insane and funny. Really, really, really, like, legit, hilarious, funny.

not like um it's not like you know i once heard this song and it's it's really yeah i had to go see somebody do cabaret once and i honestly could not believe it once i i did i went once it was a friend and i i couldn't stay until the end because i couldn't face her afterward it was just the opposite of everything that i respond to i that's exactly it's exactly what you just did right there like this talking slash singing to the audience. I am not on board for that at all. I want to circle back to- It's embarrassing.

That's not Bridget. No, that's not Bridget at all. Bridget is a force and has her own thing going. She's very unique. I want to circle back to learning more about yourself at our age because I think I was thinking about this the other day. Like I heard something about a friend and I wasn't involved at all, but I'm an interloper.

I like to involve myself, you know? Respect. And it was an issue that I was like, you can't do that. It's bullying. it's mean to this person, blah, blah, blah. And I had overheard it. And I said, I had overheard it from some friends. I'm like, I'm going to say something to her. I have to. And they both just kind of looked at me and went, well, it's really none of your business, but of course you're going to do it. And I was like, because she's going to hear it from me and she's going to know that

it's serious. Like if I heard this and I was hesitant to even get involved, but I was like, no, I actually, she needs to hear it from me. Cause I know she's going to take it seriously from me rather than my group of friends that were talking to her. Like there's a little bit more of a you know dynamic between us which is i know that she would listen right and i thought this is exactly the kind of thing that you that you do chelsea like i thought before i was like i was there was a moment of hesitation and i said maybe you don't get involved and i go no no this is actually like important to say out of respect for all women right like it was one of those things and i when i did it it was a reminder of who i am you know what i mean like that yes you're always

going to do that you're always going to do the right thing you're always going to be the person that says the uncomfortable thing because it's important not just to fucking swing my dick around it has nothing to do with that I'd rather not swing my dick around my dick is exhausted will you name this episode my dick is exhausted okay thank you actually agree same my dick is also exhausted but I think that the moment of self-reflection before you did it that's what's important and that's where it's growth yeah that's what's important but it's also the other side of it was how reliable I am to myself and to my, like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to let things fall under, like, sweepy swept under the rug. I'm not that personality. I don't like

that. I'm always going to stand up when something needs to be said on behalf of a person, an underdog, a woman, whomever, you know what I mean? And I like that about myself. And sometimes it is being an interloper, but guess what? The net result was exactly what I wanted it to be, where this woman was like, I can't believe you heard this. I can't believe anyone said that. I can't believe I said that. I'm so embarrassed that you know about this. And I'm like, I know, but like, you can't do stuff like that to other women. Like it's so uncool, especially when you have a daughter, you know? So it was like one of those moments where I was really happy I did it. And I was reminded of my reliability. And I don't know why I'm bringing this up, but I mean, I'm just

talking about learning and growing with yourself. You kind of start to settle into your personality. And then while there are things you always want to change, there are also things we should remind ourselves that we like about ourselves yes exactly but I think also if you hadn't thought wait is this something I want to do then I don't think you would have known that either exactly and that's about the growth too and I like my big thing is I want to have compassion for everyone and I just made this realization recently where and I always say for everyone and in my mind that means like you know Donald Trump or whatever like you know like even though he is oppressive to people and groups including groups I'm a member of but I realized like I'm not ever compassionate

to me towards yourself yeah and that was like a thing that I just realized about myself and think and now I'm like really being active to be like I've journaled for years and when I was writing this book and I'd go back and look at my journal I was like Jesus I'm the most mean to my I mean it was just like stupid Jeff like if I found this from someone else I would have been like what is wrong with this person mentally like why are they so obsessed with me and I found that uh anyway so that's like a thing where I'm like okay I'm growing and it's about self-reflection and it's about like taking that little moment to be like wait who are you what are you doing this for why are you doing this and then you can feel good about being the interloper

versus whoops, I interloped with. Yeah, I used to interlope too much. Like when I wasn't involved and it wasn't my friends, I would be a stranger on the street and I have a problem with that. So, but I've basically modulated my behavior. Is that the word? Is there any way we can make it a little cooler in here?

Jeff took his pants off and I am now, I feel like I'm going through perimenopause for the second time. Turn it down one boom boom. I like your mustard socks. Oh, thank you. I mean, I think I do. I'm just, thank you.

I like that. What was that about always being truthful? I'm digesting that, but I like the outfit that you've put together. It's like an ensemble piece and I like it. I like it. Oh, I read on camera and I was like, make it cute. Oh, that feels so good already. Thanks.

I am very specific about air conditioning. I want it. I mean, I want it all the time. I want it at night. I want it during the day. I feel like when there's not circulate, like, especially if I'm on stage, like the theater has to be fucking cold. Well, and especially for, to do comedy, people don't want to laugh when it's like swampy.

Yeah. Well, some people don't mind that. Some people just sit and sweat and they don't care. And you know what I call those people? New Yorkers in the summertime, just sitting and sweating and walking through this, like, you know, there's something really gross about New York with this steam coming up in the summertime from the subways and from the sewers when it's already hot. And it's just like cement mixing in the air with like dog shit and who fucking knows what.

Home sweet home. Like it doesn't even have to be summer. Like I was there a couple weeks ago in the spring, like in April, and it was like 50 degrees and I'm sweating. I was just like, why is it so gross? The air is terrible. Well, that sounds like perimenopause, Catherine. There you go. I'm going through it again.

50 degrees and sweating sounds like something. How long have you been married? I don't know how long married, but 17 years together. 17 years together. And what does your husband do for a living? He's a visual artist. Okay. And he teaches visual art.

And how did you know that he was the person that you wanted to marry? Well, when we got the legal right. Was he the only person that asked you? He's exactly my type. Willing. When we had our first date, he had volunteered at a shelter for women at a synagogue the night before. and I had volunteered at a shelter for men at a Lutheran church the night before

and it just felt too cute to not really go in. That is really, really sweet. Yeah, it felt very like ordained or what have you. Yeah, I mean, two volunteers, what are the chances of that? Well, listen, when you're dating in New York City, it's pretty rare. Yeah, I would be pretty rare.

Do you still volunteer? Yeah, not with that same shelter anymore, but yes, I do. Oh, good for you. Yeah, I wish I were someone who volunteered. well you can't I mean you can't yeah I could

I could you could volunteer Barack Obama and Michelle Obama go to soup kitchens and volunteer not every week or anything

no they don't but yeah it would be a nice thing to do I like to think I'm doing good things in other ways you know but who cares

about being famous I'm not talking about that aspect of things and volunteering you know you either can volunteer or not it really doesn't matter

who you are yeah and shout out to all the famous people who are doing it and not getting photographed and volunteering yeah it doesn't even count if there's no camera i don't know what's something that you've learned about from being married for this or being together with someone for 17 years what's something that you've learned about yourself

did you know you would be this good in a relationship i mean am i good i don't know I mean, like it just lasts because you don't leave it. It's not like I mean, I guess the thing that I learned is like you do have to work at it. You do have to like check in with people. And there can be times when you're like, oh, man, I really have been sort of neglecting my spousal duties. That sounds like oral. I mean, like I'm not just saying his butthole. Is that what you meant to say?

Exactly. No, just like I'm busy with my career and I'm, you know, I'm doing press for this book right now. And so like we have a day every Saturday that we is like that's a sacred day. We can't if something really big comes up, we can say yes to it. But we need to like check in with the other and stuff like that. Yeah. And that's the kind of thing that I I really would not have done for yourself. Yeah, exactly.

That you would have to carve out that kind of time. Yeah, exactly. And that like I kind of just thought it would all just happen organically. Yeah, I think. But it is important to know that relationships take work. Like you're not just going to, you know, people have this idea, especially young, dumb girls have this idea like they're going to get married and everything's just going to come together. And it's like, you're not taking into account any of the pitfalls of a long-term relationship and what can happen and all of the drama that goes along with like life changes and job changes and city changes. Every relationship takes work.

Even friendships take work. During certain times, you know, hopefully it's not all work, but, but yeah, I mean. Right. And occasionally there's annoying. And like, sometimes I think that's a surprise too, is that like, sometimes I get annoyed by him, which like, of course, like you get annoyed by your roommate. Why wouldn't you get annoyed by the person who's not only in your apartment, but in your bed. And you just have to think like, well, first of all, we, cause I'm a real people pleaser. So for a lot of the beginning of our relationship, I just never said like, it bugs me when you do whatever. And so that's the big thing that's been for me has been, has been like, okay, is this something that is worth saying? I want you know do I do I pull a Chelsea do I say it and that's been a really big learning curve and it needed a lot of like therapy and stuff yeah no I can relate to that completely oh really yeah I'm surprised because I used to just pop off and now it's more like discerning I'm more discerning

and it's more focused and targeted right and I used to just suppress right I would now know I have the opposite explode explode explode you're suppressed suppressed we're opposite do you know what number you are on the Enneagram? Do you know what an Enneagram? Three wing two. Oh, okay. Three wing two. I'm an eight wing seven. Or it might be a two wing three. Oh, yeah. That's like, oh, that, yeah, that makes total sense. I'm just getting into the Enneagram and I love it. But you know, when I first found out I was a three in college, when I was in my Christian college, I took a class called Vocations and Voices and our campus pastor gave us the Enneagram test. Wow, really?

Yeah, that sounds like modern, very modern. Because I feel like the Enneagram is like a new thing. I mean, but I don't know why I think that. Well, it was at least around in 1993 or 4. It was. That's when the internet was invented by Al Gore in 1994. Do you remember that? Yes, I do.

Thanks, Al. We're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Jeff Hiller. behind every night spent making the kids lunches there's a lot of suspense will they finally eat the veggies will the pesto survive the first bite will the lunchbox come home empty half full or come home at all and will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers get bell pure fiber internet with crave netflix and disney plus from 94 a month price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.

Bell. Connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying,

shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,

welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors

and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B.

I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it.

It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Boom Boom Jeff Hiller. He is the author of his latest book.

Well, his only book. It's called Actress of a Certain Age, My 20-Year Trail to Overnight Success. Let's put him on the New York Times bestseller list. Okay, guys? Let's all make sure we order a copy to support him. And how funny this book is because I read it. You're going to laugh.

It's worth it. We all need something to escape and we all need to be laughing a lot more as far as I'm concerned. Okay. We're going to take some callers and we're going to give advice. Okay. Catherine, what do we have in store for us? Well, I love that you called him Boom Boom Jeff Hiller, like the Jeff is in quotes.

That's my favorite. For me, the Jeff is in quotes. It's actually Boom Boom Hiller. Well, our first question comes from Rob. He says, help, I'm a liberal gay man, and my mom won't stop sending me Bibles. Dear Chelsea, I'm a 36-year-old gay man who's been out and proud for 14-plus years. I come from a very evangelical, Republican, Midwestern family, and I'm the polar opposite of them all. I still identify as Christian, but in a more new-agey, spiritual way.

I can count on one hand how many times in the past decade I've seen the inside of a church, and it was probably for a wedding or a funeral. Or because it's my polling place, and I was voting blue down the ballot. I'm super progressive, and my family knows this about me as I'm extremely outspoken about it. Overall, they've been very loving and accepting of who I am. They've really come a long way. However, my mom especially continues to shove religion down my throat. I have more Bibles than I possibly know what to do with, yet for my last birthday, she sent me another one. I wanted to be like, thanks, let me just go add this to the stack of other Bibles you've sent me over the years.

A couple of years ago, for the 4th of July, she sent me a bunch of Americana shit to put around my house, including, but not limited to, a red, white, and blue cross that says, God bless America. Barf. Basically, any opportunity she gets, she sends me some Christian crap that I don't need or want. It doesn't help that she works at Hobby Goddamn Lobby and gets a discount. I know she's coming from a loving place and means well, but I swear to God, if I get one more effing Bible or Christian knickknack in the mail, I'm going to scream, please help Rob. First of all, why are people sending Bibles? Like, is there new information coming out in the Bible? Is there a new edition or something? I think for certain Christian folks, there might be a different translation or have a nice cover or pictures.

What are we translating it from? What language was it originally written? Hebrew is the Old Testament. Greek is the new. Okay. Hebrew and Greek. Okay. Yeah.

I feel like Bibles are wrapped. You know what I mean? It's enough. We get it. And they're out there. There's enough out there. We don't need to be reinterpreting them. It's like, stop it with this.

First of all, you have to have a very direct conversation with your mother, I would say. She's obviously a Bible thumper, and she's going to be very upset that you don't want this. So you have to think of a very gentle way to just say, I'm up to my ears in fucking Bibles, and I need you to back up. But I do think it's worth saying that, too. What do you think? I mean, you come from a religious background. I don't. It's true.

And I'm also, like, from the—because my mom also was very much into church and stuff. And I think like the more important thing is that she's supportive outside of the gift giving section, which I think is sort of obviously probably really difficult for her and beautiful that she does that. But I think that what you're saying is right. A polite, tactful way of saying, I think I'm good on Bibles is maybe enough. But if she sends you 4th of July stuff, like, I don't know, you know, sometimes people just, you get a gift from your Nana and you're like, this is not something I'm ever going to need. Maybe you can just collect all of her stuff and give it to someone like that, you know, like someone in your neighborhood, like re-gift it, drop it off in front of someone's house who you know will appreciate it. And then you take the conversation, you know, I mean, it's worth having a conversation anyway, because I don't think your mom's going to listen. she's gonna probably it will probably like tamp it down a bit all of the things you're getting

but she'll probably continue to send if she works at a holly lobby like it sounds like you're gonna get gifts regardless that's her type her taste yeah so you're gonna have to think of a way to like repurpose her gifts you know what i mean so that you can deal with it head-on but then also deal with the reality that you're going to continue to get those gifts because mothers don't really listen to their children exactly and is this an issue that you're willing to have like a knockdown drag out 5-4? No, it's not like that. This is a light question. Of course, it's not so serious,

but it is annoying. I mean, I would be pissed if I were getting this, but I didn't grow up in a religious background, so I have no history of this. So I would be pissed because it would be coming out of the fucking blue. It would be as much confused as pissed. I mean, oh my God, I just love the idea of me

opening up a Bible. Even in hotel rooms when I see one, I'm annoyed. I'm like, why? Don't push that on me. But yeah, it's not a serious situation, but you can say something to your mom. Absolutely. Offhandedly. I wonder if you could say like that one you sent me for my last birthday was my favorite. I don't need any more options.

Yeah, I don't know about that. That's like a mislead, and I don't think that works with religious people. Indirect. Yeah, that's probably true. All right, Rob. Well, Brad, do we have Timothy? Chalamet? Okay, great.

He calls in every week, and it's always about Kylie Jenner. It's so embarrassing. Every week. And it's like how she hasn't heard about this at all yet. It's amazing. He's always just like, oh, my girlfriend. Do you believe that those two are together when you see Timothy Chalamet and Kendall Jenner? Is it Kendall or Kylie?

I don't know. Oh, it's Kylie. It's Kylie. Oh, never mind that. We'll get back to that. We'll get back to that. We have a caller I can see. We're so sorry.

We got sidetracked. We gossiped. Talk about Timmy. Well, Timothy says his subject line is open relationship or breakup. Dear Chelsea, my boyfriend of a little over a year and I recently moved to the Netherlands from South Africa. Our sex life has never been great, but we really love each other and we make a great team.

Although recently we've been having lots of disagreements, the move and adapting to a new country has understandably put a lot of pressure on the relationship. I'm generally a happy person and I'm committed to self-improvement, et cetera, but my boyfriend is not on the same page with me about that. I recently started to feel like we're not on the same page regarding our personal growth and emotional maturity in general. My boyfriend brought up the option of trying an open relationship, which I'm happy to do because our sex life is basically non-existent.

Although this could be really good for us, I also feel like it could be the beginning of the end. All of these things have made me think about the future of our relationship and if I want to continue with it at all. What makes things even more tricky is that I moved over on his visa, so I'm pretty sure I would have to leave the country if we broke up, which would suck because it wasn't easy to get here in the first place. I love him dearly

and he's very important to me, but I feel like he needs to do a lot of growing and I don't know if I should be a part of that. Please help, Timothy. Hi, Timothy. This is our special guest today, Jeff Hiller. Hi. You can call him Boom Boom. Boom Boom. Great. That's another

thing I call Boom Boom's penises. I always go, oh, look at him. I'll say to a friend, I'll be like, did he have a nice Boom Boom? So Boom Boom is just a great word for everything I think so okay what are you thinking in terms of if this relationship it sounds like this relationship is coming to a head and that's okay but I just want to talk about your like actual logistics like for living like if you guys do break up what are you prepared to do are you going to go back to South Africa like if that if if this is a real conversation

then we should be talking about those things yeah so I wasn't exactly sure how it would work Because I moved over on his visa. So I did a little bit of digging. So it does seem like if we break up, then I wouldn't have any other choice but to go back to South Africa. Unless we find some way to work around that. But legally, that is what will have to happen. Are you guys legally married? No, no, no.

We're just like dating. And you can bring somebody over on your visa if you're dating them? Yep. okay that wacky eu what about and then is moving back to south africa an option like how do you feel about that i'm not crazy about it because i mean i obviously sold all my stuff there used all my savings and everything to move here it's it was very stressful we just kind of like rebuilt our life and like create a little home here so and we were looking forward to like traveling because it's so much easier to travel when you're in live in Europe and I found a job

here was which is also not very easy for okay okay so yeah so ideally you want to stick around there is your boyfriend open to like couples counseling he I'm trying to get him to just see a therapist himself but he he's not very open to the idea I keep bringing it up because I've been in therapy for like 10 years so i know the benefits of it like and i know he needs it like the other day he asked me something in shame bless him it's very sweet but he asked me do you think trauma from your childhood plays over into your adult life and i was like uh yes that's like exactly what happens yeah so he's he's not really he hasn't been in therapy so he doesn't know the benefits from it is he younger he's only three years younger than I am but I feel like there's

quite a difference in emotional maturity between us is he would he is he someone who would read a book like if you brought home a book based on child like about what he the question he asked you and said oh I found this at the bookstore here's a book on childhood trauma I thought you might be interested in this what do you think he would read that yeah I could try that like I read a lot of self-help books so then he it kind of caught on with him oh well that's something that's not nothing yeah yeah for sure no he's definitely like looking into himself a little bit more but like i i don't really want to like leaving him is not really what i want to do i really so then don't you're not there you're not there yet and and right now i think what you should

focuses on like what do you how do you feel about open relationships what's your like well I mean I feel like as long as both partners are into it which it sounds like you are then why not I mean I think it sounds like find your own relationship I think it sounds like an opportunity for him to grow up a little bit to having an open relationship because when you have an open relationship like what I would suggest is creating like to have parameters and have boundaries and have an understanding about how much information you both want how much information you both need those kinds of adult conversations are going to lead to more intense conversations about emotions and about, and like, even though you're a little bit farther along on like an emotional maturity

level, it's good to, as a practice, have conversations like that, where you're including him, like you're introducing a subject matter, like, okay, what are the rules going to be? How are we going to feel? What if I feel emotionally left out? Is it okay for me to come and say, actually, I don't feel comfortable with this. Like you can have adult conversations that kind of pull him into a more mature position. Do you know what I'm saying? And the boundaries that you set at the top

don't have to necessarily be constant. You know, you can say like, oh, actually I thought I was okay with that thing, but I'm not or whatever. Yeah, like it's actually, I'm like this whole open relationship thing is actually an opportunity for you to have more depth within your relationship.

so I would say that that to go for it I mean you're kind of at your wits end I ideally what you want to do is get him into therapy so that he can start having some real conversations but until that can happen I would really share the books you're reading I would share the topics that you're that you're interested in like the the things that you're reading about self-help or childhood trauma and not in a patronizing way as a way to like bounce it off of him like what do you think about this? I read this. I'm not sure I agree with this. Do you agree with this? What do you think about this? You know, just try to engage him a little bit more in what you're interested in. And even if he's not there yet, just introduce the subject matters. You know what

I mean? So there are, there are catchphrases he's heard. Childhood trauma, does that roll over into your adult life? Like that's good that he said that sentence, regardless of whether he understands it. A hundred percent. Yeah, fair enough. Just on the open relationship thing, I have a little bit of an update after going back and forth he actually told me so he wants to try it this was like two weeks ago so we were like yeah cool let's go out let's go try it let's go have fun so we we went to a few bars in Amsterdam and towards the end of the night we were both standing kind of outside and then this really attractive guy came up and like just fully kissed me on the mouth and it lasted for like one and a half seconds and then I pushed him away because I

knew this was going to be a problem and I looked over at my boyfriend and he was not even looking at me didn't speak to me and then on our way home he was just like I can't do this I can't handle you being intimate with anyone else than me like then it was just such a it's such an been such an emotional rollercoaster from him being on board with it and then not and then yes and then no so currently it's no but okay i feel like it's gonna come up again at some point yeah but these are also opportunities to have more conversations around the subject matter of having an open relationship talking about boundaries talking about intimacy talking about what doesn't feel right like would it feel better if you weren't kissing someone if you were just having sex with

them. Like really introducing all of these, because the more you can get him talking, the more that he's going to open up emotionally. And I know it's not your job, but if you're in this relationship and you're committed to staying in the Netherlands, then you kind of have to make this effort. But I would also say like being in a relationship that's not right is not worth not moving back to South Africa. Yeah. Maybe see if there's like a, another plan you can do with your work. If there, even if it takes a little bit of time just to have that as sort of a backup plan yeah I mean you've got one foot out the door you know I mean clearly so I know it's not a desirable place to be but I would say to exhaust all your efforts before you shut the door for

obviously multiple reasons and one of those being geographic yeah I think we we we have had a problem of just being like honest with each other having honest conversations saying how we feel and that's only recently been really talked about so yeah it's it's it's a lot of things that we're going through at the moment but our sex life is like a it's been a problem for a while so how long have you been together only a year and a half but it's been like a problem kind of from the beginning what's the problem so the problem is mostly with me i've kind of like lost my physical attraction towards him like i really love him there's no doubt in my mind about that but i just can't get that physical attraction back and i feel really guilty about it and every time like i

I can see him trying to, like, you know, engage. I feel really guilty and I feel bad, but I don't really know what to do about it. Can you actually physically have sex with him or you can't? I really don't want to. Okay. I don't mean to laugh, but I mean, it really sounds like you're not in this relationship anymore. It sounds like it's your friend. I know.

It feels like, yeah, it does feel like that. Okay. Let me ask you, is he, where is he in your relationship? Like if you said like, okay, this is our last ditch effort. I'm not feeling it. We're not feeling it. We're not in sync. I really want us to go to therapy as our kind of like last effort. What would he say to that? I think he would, he might be open to it. I just wanted him to, to go to therapy first a little bit, just so you can see. make it about him, make it about you. The only way to get someone to go to therapy is to make it about you. You have a problem with your sex. That's a perfect thing. Like, hey, I'd love to figure this out. He knows that you're having trouble with sexually, right? He's part of this equation, right? And couples therapy can demystify individual therapy. So it might actually be a perfect way to introduce them. Oh, that's excellent. Yes. Very well said. That's exactly

right. You know, you get in there because it's your problem. Like I want to work on our sex life. I know this is my, my issue, you know, take responsibility. And then that, it becomes like less of a, it's less intimidating for him to go into a therapy session when you're framing it, that it's more about you. Yeah, that's, that's a very good idea. I think that's a good plan. And then hopefully that can lead into single therapy, like Jeff said, you know, hopefully with his exposure to therapy, he'll like it.

So I think your job is to find a couple, get him to agree to that. try to tell him that you really want to work on your relationship and that you know you're aware of the issue you we're gonna have an open relationship now you don't want to he's got jealousy issues okay that's fine you're gonna respect all of it but you do want to work on your relationship even from a sexual standpoint you know starting there so that you can get him into therapy and yeah and then start with that also it's just it's so much easier to have a third person there to help you discuss things like i'm no longer attracted to you that would be very difficult to bring up to someone who you're no longer attracted to.

No, it's horrible to bring up. It doesn't have to be a permanent thing. You might just not be attracted to him right now. Right. You know what I mean? If you build this relationship back, there's always people that come back from this that can have sex after periods of not having sex. So I wouldn't look at it as like a final thing.

Like this is not your, you know, final act, but put in an effort to salvage the relationship. Okay. I'm going to do that. And get a couples therapist who's certified in sex therapy. There's a special certification and it's very helpful. Good to know. I also think it's a little bit of a shortcut if you're able to find a queer therapist

just so like there is a shorthand there. Do they have those in Amsterdam? Just kidding. I haven't heard good things about therapists in the Netherlands. Apparently they're not great. But I mean we can always

do it like virtually. yeah you could do it exactly so who cares about that you can do it over zoom with someone in new york or la or london or somewhere where there's better therapists i didn't isn't there aren't there a lot of therapists from the netherlands not so or psycho well i guess those are from like the 18th century so who gives a shit we've had to update their dad maybe everyone has been people love to say negative things about the netherlands like the doctors are terrible the therapists are terrible and blah blah blah so who knows maybe It's all just lies.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, I hope we helped you. I mean, I don't really feel like we did. Will you check back with us? Yeah. Why don't you have that conversation with him and try and nail down a couples therapist, you know, even if it's in the States, just so you guys can start having more conversations.

And I would say one thing is, I understand you're farther along in your spiritual journey. Don't judge him so much. Try not to try to try to flip the switch in your head and think of him as like that's an opportunity to actually teach and for him to learn more like you can be a party to that. You can be like part of his exposure to different things, but not in a condescending or patronizing way. He is your equal. You're in a relationship. You can't be superior to him because you're more emotionally mature. You kind of just have to look at him like he has a different set of circumstances and a different history and you're both in the same place at the same time.

So, like, how can you help each other grow and how can you help each other learn? And that goes for your growth and your learning, too. Yeah, because judgment is a real boner killer. But take those first steps and hit us back and let us know what happens, okay? I'll do that. Okay. All right. Okay, Timothy.

Thanks for calling in, Timothy. Thank you, guys. Okay. Bye. Bye. That made my boner go down, that call. That's tough when you just aren't attracted to someone anymore. No, I feel like that's the end of the road.

But there are stories about people who have completely lost their boners, so to speak, for their spouses and then reclaimed them. Well, I think what you're saying about like having that judgment of you, it really is. It builds up this resentment and this sort of, you know, not interest. And so that will kill your sex drive, too, for that person. Especially if you're thinking someone is stupid or they're not as smart as you are or spiritually advanced as you are. Like, you get into tricky territory. It's like you can be like a spiritual narcissist. You know what I mean?

Oh, God. What a coined term. Okay. We're going to take a break. I'm going to boom, boom, boom, boom, and then we're going to be back. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite?

Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first.

I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with boom, boom, in quotes, Jeff Hiller.

Well, our last caller today is Judith, and she has one of my favorite subject lines I've ever seen in our email inbox. It is, my mom married her dead stepsister's husband, and now I have an uncle daddy. Wait a second. My mom married her dead stepsister's husband, and now I have an uncle daddy. So she says, this is a long one to buckle up, but it's a real journey. It's just a stepsister's husband. Yeah, it's not like she married him. So why does she have an uncle daddy?

Oh, because it's her stepdad. Yeah, yeah. That's her uncle. Okay, this isn't the worst news. Okay. No, no, no. Okay. So Judith says, Dear Chelsea, I'm Judith, a 47-year-old single mom.

Despite life surprises, I strive for purpose and gratitude daily. I have one issue I can't get over, and I thought I'd email you, the one person who'd tell me if I'm being a stubborn asshole. My 72-year-old mom just got married for the fourth time. While multiple marriages don't faze me, it's her taste in men that's the problem. I know you're like, isn't one of them your dad? Yes, he was. He was a volatile addict. Her second was a jackass.

Her third was a paranoid hoarder. In 2019, she retired and became single, finally, and went to live with my sister. When the pandemic lifted, she had the idea of driving around the country in a customized van to explore the world. A hippie at heart, we told her to go for it, make the most of her life. About seven months into her vagabond journey, she stopped in Mississippi to attend her stepsister's funeral. She reconnected with this side of the family and decided to stay an extra week. This is where things get weird. She begins talking about her stepsister's husband a lot. Larry this, Larry that. Here's the thing. Larry has been our uncle our entire lives, and he sucks.

He is one of those military guys who yell talks, knows everything, and is outright socially belligerent. I didn't like him when I was four, and I don't like him now. After a couple months, my mom tells us she's going on a cross-country train ride with Larry. I sarcastically joke, what are you banging Larry now? She stammers. I want to vomit. This is six months after her stepsister has died. You know, the one who was Larry's wife for 47 years. They were together since high school. Six months later, she moves in with him, and a few months after that, she announces she's marrying him in an email to us. She says there's not a wedding. They're just going to the justice of the peace. The next day, we wake up to a Facebook post. They're standing under a

tree. She had a bouquet, a new dress. His family was there. We were not invited. Here's my predicament. Last week, she asked if they could come visit. This means her and Larry. I am the only sibling who hasn't spent time with them. Two of them tolerate him. The other has tried it and is done trying. The idea makes me rage. I want to say no. I want no part of him in my life. Am I being too stubborn? Chelsea, what do I do about my uncle daddy, Judith? Hard no. Hard no. Hi. Hi. How are you? How are you? This is our special guest, Jeff Hillers, here today. Hi, Judith. Hi. I totally know who you are. I'm a huge fan of your show.

Aw, thank you. So you're a no? Yes, I would say a hard no. Listen, I'm of the belief at our age, you're 47. I'm a few years older than you. Jeff is 49. We don't have to tolerate this kind of bullshit anymore. I don't want to be around people I don't want to be around. I have earned the right.

I have extended my generosity for years leading up to this point and tolerated people that I don't have to tolerate in my family and outside of my family. And I'm just, I'm not really willing to do that anymore. and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's creating a healthy, who wants that guy in their house fucking yell talking at you? No, no, you already stated that.

Your mother, and your mother kind of has been kidnapped by him basically, right? I mean, so she's been hijacked by this man and while that sucks and I know you love your mother, you can easily say I want to see you but I don't want to see him. And so if you ever want to see me alone, let me know

but I'm not really interested in hanging out with Jeff, my uncle as my father or larry what do you think or larry whatever the hell we call larry sorry i got confused with jeff what did i do sorry no jeff knows what he did jeff knows what he's done oh i know what i did no regrets um you know i i have this like okay and again go no no go for it i you know i people walk over me sometimes so grain of huge salt but my thought is okay it's clear your mom has terrible taste in men and i have uh i don't have family but i have good friends who have truly just shitty taste in men yeah and i'm wondering if you could just say like you know i'd love to see you and i'll go to dinner with larry but i can't have him staying in the

house is that enough or you think no just across the board don't come at all well no i mean i think anything's an option i think this is what you know this is why you're here you have your point of you well because i just feel like you know i got a dead mom and i i just feel like i don't know if you could have hung out with your mom and a big asshole with her you're saying that you would have done that well i just feel like i just feel like this could possibly create you know a a rift but i feel like if that rift has been created already right and not by you but yes no you all are i feel so validated right now because literally what the both of you are saying is what my friends and family around me are saying, Chelsea, I'm 100% with you. In fact, I've used the word kidnapped

multiple times. I'm like, it's like he stole our mom from our family because he needed a replacement. But then I have people saying, but you know, it's your mom. She's 72. You might have five to 10 good years with her left and be the bigger person. But when it boils down to it, it's like, I don't want to go to dinner with him because I feel like I can't control my face. Well, you've made the choice then, I think. Like, I don't know how to look at him and be kind or nice. I don't trust myself. Great. These are all your answers. Yeah. I'm not a people pleaser anymore. I don't have to do this. I've learned that lesson. I pushed through in my forties to like stand up for what I think is healthy and the people I want in my life. But there is some lingering guilt and I

just don't know if i'm being too stubborn because like i said my other siblings have stepped in and tried and they all say like girl we didn't enjoy it either but it's one of those things we're doing it for our mom and i just would prefer not to i just don't know if i'm being i don't think i don't think it matters that you're being stubborn i really don't i think i i completely support your decision to say where are you in the birth order this is just i'm the third of four and we were all we're all very close like my mom had four kids in six years wrap your head around that so it's like boom boom boom boom boom with us and we all feel the same way for the first time ever about something but usually I'm the people-pleasing middle child that can be friendly and like keep

her chin up and do whatever but when I got divorced like eight years ago I quit doing that I just don't do that anymore I'm not performing for anyone I don't want to have to be forced into things that I want to be into. And I want to stand in my own power and my own decision-making and let the people that I trust into my circle and into my world. And so I did talk to my therapist about just going to dinner with him. And even then it feels like I'm going to be fake or performing for them. And I don't want to put myself in a situation where I'm not being real. You know what I mean? Or authentic. You've done the work too. You've like really thought about this and talk about it with your therapist and your siblings i feel like you yeah i mean how many

more opinions do you need just yours chelsea i just want yours do you blame me i would trust it then yeah for sure you got it you got this don't do it don't do it be nice to your mother tell her you love her and that you're always open to seeing her she's your mother you'll always love her reiterate that always say that make sure she knows but you're not interested in hanging out with Logan or Larry or whatever the fuck his name is. The fact that they met at her funeral, that is like your first date. I have a grandfather, not my grandfather,

but my nieces have a grandfather. He married his cousin right after his wife died. Like the cousin that looks the most like his ex-wife or his dead wife. This happens all over. This happens to men all the time. Men can't be alone. And so they immediately, they're like,

oh, you're alive? Okay, you come with me. It's like, what? Are there any prerequisites to us being in a relationship? Yeah. I support you. I'm with you. Thank you, Chelsea.

I feel so good. But what's up with that dog in the background? Is that dog a Republican? Why is he not an American flag? No, this dog is a Texas. Trust me, I'm not a Republican on any level whatsoever. Okay, I just want to make sure. I fucking hate Republican dogs.

Do you live in Texas? I do. I'm in Dallas. But I'm in a very blue, beautiful space. Don't worry. Yeah. The dog is very cute. Thank you.

Judith, will you take a picture of that and text it to me so we can include it in the video? Absolutely. Absolutely, yes. I work with rescue animals, and so I'm in my office, and we're celebrating big dog energy. Oh, good. Okay, well, thanks for calling in, Judith. Thank you. Thank you all so much.

Tell your mom I said hello. Girl, I just hope she doesn't know this podcast happened, so we'll see what happens. Just pray for me on that. I doubt Larry's an avid listener. Apparently, he's deciding what she's listening to these days. okay okay take care judah all right thank you bye bye bye don't you feel like we solved the world's problems today i mean honestly wow definitely judith to me not so much but yeah well we started with him i mean he's got a lot of problems yeah you know imagine imagine going

to a city moving with somebody on their visa and then you're beholden to them and you're not really in you're not sexually attracted that he has a lot of problems and if we could solve that in a podcast then this would be more successful you know what i mean we would be getting awards michelin star rating michelin star we're the first michelin star podcast we'd have a bakery we would have we would have michelin stars you guys if we could solve every fucking problem problem not solved for tim was that his name timothy yeah Okay. Well, Timothy from South Africa, who's in the Netherlands, looks like he's searching for Dutch people. Well, we have to wrap things up. This is, it's over. This podcast episode is over. i want everyone i want every you've been boom boomed i want everyone to order a copy of actress

of a certain age my 20-year trail to overnight success it's really worth it and you've been a pleasure i'm so happy that have we ever met before no no but i will you did one time on chelsea lately i did this truly ridiculous musical in real life and in you did your monologue about it and you called it a gay hate crime in reverse. And I do have a slight sense of pride about that. Okay, well, and now I do too. It's a wonderful, wonderful to relive memories like that. To cruise down memory lane

before our podcast was a Michelin star. Oh God, what a day, what an afternoon. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you. Seriously, thank you. Okay, my remaining dates for Vegas. There are remaining dates for this year. summertime is coming and I will be in Vegas at the Cosmo doing my residency on July 5th will

be the next date that I'm there July 5th August 30th and then November 1st and 29th November 1st and November 29th I will be in Las Vegas at the Cosmo performing inside myself at the Chelsea It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason. Okay? Thank you. Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write in to DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod.

Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. I survived nine months in captivity. And I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. Abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube.

90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is Our Town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.