Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Tarot, Cults + Body Counts with Christina Ricci

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

  Christina Ricci joins Chelsea to talk about her new tarot deck, why even 3-year-olds should have boundaries, and having a dad with a cult of his own.  Then: A wife struggles with guilt over her judgmental family.  A 30-something worries about escalating fights between her in-laws.  And a girlfriend’s body count is a point of contention in her relationship - but should it be? * Find Christina’s Tarot deck Cat Full of Spiders here! * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the Internet and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. hey this is Hayes Davenport and Sean Clements we host the podcast Hollywood Handbook each week we talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to

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This is our first episode that we're recording since the election. So that didn't really go the way we wanted it to. No, it did not. And people are very, very down. and I have been sifting through my DMs with lots of messages of fear and defeat and people who want to give up. And that's kind of just what they want.

You know, they want us to give up. So while we have to lick our wounds and realize that this didn't go our way and all of the reasons it didn't go our way, I think one of the most important things to remember is to activate and to actually turn and channeled that anger and that rage into something powerful like we did in 2016 when this happened. And when we had the midterms two years later, it was because so many people

activated and organized and got involved. And while that may feel like a big, you know, hopeless idea, it matters and it makes a difference. And it's been proven time and time again to make a difference, getting involved in politics, getting involved with local groups, support groups. If you need a support group. Instruction, like places like ACLU, who are constantly fighting legal battles and have been preparing to fight legal battles against this administration. That's one good source. But we are going to do, we have many episodes now. We're going to do a mini-sode that will come out tomorrow with all sorts of resources for you guys so that you can actually join a group, donate to a group, go and volunteer for these groups, all of the groups that

are fighting for LGBTQ rights that we are very well aware of, human rights, immigrants rights, all of these groups that are here doing work on the ground. We are going to put together a big list of places that are reliable and have avenues for you to actually get involved and start making a difference because we can't just lie down and take it and just say, well, they're going to do what they're going to do. There are ways to delay doing what they want to do. There are ways to get involved. And there are good things that have come out of the election, even though this feels very, very dark. I'm with you. I just spent the whole weekend doing stand up, which thank God I had to do that because it served as not only a reprieve for hopefully my audience, but for me. I mean,

it made me forget about all of this for at least an hour. And I'm with you. I understand how dark it is and how it can feel hopeless. But that energy doesn't get us anywhere. Hopelessness and giving up and defeatism doesn't get us anywhere. So we really have to work together in community knowing that there is half of this country that feels the same way we do. There is half this country that wants to protect all of these rights and probably more than half. You know, a lot of people just voted because of their pocketbooks and some people are voting for their fucking lives yeah so it would be nice if everyone was on board with humanity but clearly with all this divisiveness and the ugliness of elon musk and his whatever he did with russia

for this election like i don't even want to go down that rabbit hole because i don't like i mean you go online if you even mention it i mean there's so many conspiracy theories out there it's just so gross and uneducated and stupid yeah and the algorithms are so dangerous it's like i've seen people that i love who are brilliant who are discerning who are politically savvy and even they are getting like sucked down these weird youtube rabbit holes and i'm like where are you getting this rhetoric from i know and it's they're everywhere it's permeating everywhere and that's russia for sure because that's what they and that's what elon musk did you know when he bought twitter that was with this intention to do this which is exactly you know he was victorious

So it's like, we have to, you know, we have to not lie down and let this roll over on us. So I don't know what the answers are. I feel everyone's pain and I've responded to probably thousands of DMs, but I will continue to go through them and respond to more. Just trying to convey some sort of comfort and understanding that we can't be paralyzed by this. Yeah, I saw so many people saying, you know, this week, we're going to take our time to mourn and we're going to take our time to wallow. And like next week, we get up and we start fighting. And I think like we've taken our time and now we we get brave, you know, we start getting active too. Yeah, and if you're in Texas and you're feeling lonely and dispirited, I will be coming through there this week to Austin, Houston, Dallas, going to Sugar Land Friday, Saturday, Sunday, actually. So I'll see you guys there and I'll pump you up for the night and we'll just take it one day at a time, you know. But just remember, whoever you are and however hopeless you feel, you are not alone. There are so many millions of people that are feeling the same way you are. So I would really encourage people who are feeling very insulated or insular, like, and they don't have community around them. I would really encourage you to join support groups, go online, look for LGBTQ support groups, look for people who are worried about their family members being deported. There are support groups for everything. And I would really encourage you to try and find a group like that, you know, to seek out support. And now we have an interview with one of the only celebrities I don't think I've ever met in my entire life.

And not the only one, but one of them. Yeah. Who I would have thought I had met before, but I haven't. And she's been in so many of my childhood memory-making, core memory movies. Like Mermaids. You probably know her most recently from Yellow Jackets. Please welcome Christina Ricci. Hi, Christina Ricci.

Oh, my gosh. I'm really excited to be here. I've been such a fan of yours, and we've never gotten an opportunity to. Yeah, no. I said earlier, I'm like, I don't think I've met you. But then again, I don't remember because sometimes I've interviewed somebody and completely forgotten. Yeah, I can imagine. With no reason for.

Do people get really upset when you've interviewed them? Typically, it's not a great, it's not a great look. But I'd rather be honest. I mean, I've interviewed like 50,000 people. It's true. I mean, it's justified. It's understandable. But now as I'm looking at your face, I'm like, oh, because obviously I've known you for as long

as everybody else in this world has. I'm older than you. I'm five years older than you. And so I grew up with you. And so you are a familiar face to me. But as I'm looking at you in person, I realize I've never met you in person. Yeah, we haven't met. No. But first of all, this is the most exciting part. Well, not the most exciting part, but one of the most exciting part is that Christina is here today because she is releasing a tarot card collection, which is very unexpected, but also kind of right on track for your brand. Yeah. And it's weird for me too, because I love tarot. I've always thought it was fun. I'm not one of those people who like fully buys into anything really. Like I don't really believe

in anything. So I don't believe in the like mystical aspects of this, but I really love it for like self-exploration and it poses lots of questions and blah, blah, blah. So it's a funny thing for me to put out. Cause you would think like I'm putting on a tarot deck. I must believe and, like, fate and all that. Yes, all that stuff. And I really don't. I believe more, like, we're totally in control of ourselves. If we ask ourselves the right questions,

we can, you know, see situations fully and understand where we're going. And that's really what tarot is, you know? Well, I'm glad you said that preamble because sometimes when people think you're talking about tarot cards, they think you're, like, out to lunch. Yes, I used to always at Barnes & Noble's,

I would ask for the crazy lady section when I was going to get my, you know, birthday book. Remember? where you'd have to immediately go find out what his birthday was. And we'd be like, where's Sarah Barnes and Nobles? I gotta go get the birthday book. By the way, when you go to the birthday book

and you look at the guy that you're dating and then you go to any random guy, any other birthday, and it also aligns. They never once say, this is a bad match. There are very many. There are a few. I have to say. I'm looking through the tarot cards now.

Did you design these? No. My husband and I came up with this idea and he's the creative director well here's the idea the idea basically is that they're all me just like an individual has a million different facets and potentialities and versions of themselves so my husband's creative directing it and we found this amazing artist felipe flores and he did all the artwork so cute and came up like all the cards have little like two two sentence stories backstories for the characters that then are metaphors for the theme or question that's being posed.

This is very good for Christmas, you guys. This is good for your family, Christmas. There's a West Elm one, too, with a collectible set that comes with like a tray and a smudging thing and candles. Smudging? What kind of smudging are we talking about? Smudge. Like you had to smudge your house. Like energy smudging, like you had to do here. I have to smudge my house once a week.

It's called Cat Full of Spiders. It's a tarot deck with a guidebook, you guys. And it's from Christina Ricci. because you know what I was looking at your history of all of the movies that you've ever been in and most of them are pretty scary like most of them well not scary but you always yeah you play spooky like that's kind of your thing that have stood out I've made a lot of ones that nobody ever paid any attention to well like mermaid wasn't scary that was not but a lot of your roles are spooky scary and I was like oh that's interesting for a woman yeah I mean you

know, I've always been somebody who I just like can't be normal. So I can't be in romantic comedies. Why do you think you can't be normal? If I say I love you on camera, it's not believable. It is not. You don't believe me for a second. I also can't be in horror films where I have to be afraid. Like I don't, I'm not convincingly fearful. Even though I spend my life in fear, for some reason, I can't convey that on screen. So do you know that though? Have you tried to act scared on camera? Yes, I've done a few horror films. I did this one and I went to see it with my boyfriend at the time and he was just like very i don't know it wasn't a lot there but he was like wow you should never do a horror movie again and i was like no you're right he's like

you just seemed like you didn't really care about anything that's pretty funny what a great review you're like thank you for coming with me yeah i guess i brought my apathy to that performance yeah but i mean at some point you would i mean it's not like you can hit a home run every single movie or job that you get it's true I mean it's like a doctor a doctor's not hitting it out of the park every single time I'm unfortunately unfortunately it's true that is so true and I'm really glad you said that because I think it's fine to admit that you weren't very good in certain things yeah it's also always so horrified and I'm like no I'm terrible in that movie I'm glad you like it yeah I'm not good right and that's okay because I was 12 my friend

has a number one movie that's on Netflix right now and she's like oh I put the least amount of effort into this movie and I didn't even like my performance not the least amount of effort she said I was very dissatisfied with the outcome and it ends up being the biggest movie I've ever done and I'm like there you go you never know what's gonna hit but it's so true though because I I can relate to that because I in my work experiences even though I'm not an actress per se I have done not per se I'm not an actress I don't know why I'm saying it that way but I have been we're all actresses. Exactly. I have definitely performed at higher levels and lower levels, depending on what the fuck is going on in my life and how grounded I am. And I would imagine with your

career, that's about what, I mean, you've been acting since you were five? No, seven. Oh, well, I'm so off. But I didn't get my first movie until I was nine. So I never know whether it's seven or nine so in that area so at some point along the way between seven and 45 I'm sure that you were not batting a thousand every single time uh no it's been a rough road so occasionally the performances have suffered you're correct yeah well that's to be expected and I think this is a very refreshing conversation actually to be having about acting because some people take acting very seriously and the idea that you can never have made mistakes or you're not talented because you once made a bad choice or you know what i mean right or there are things that

like i think it's okay for me as an actress to be like i can't do romance like i just can't right right right i think it's fine but i've i've had things but a lot of people react as though you're like oh no don't bash yourself or you're not allowed to be self-critical like we're not allowed to be self-critical anymore everyone's always so worried about our self-esteem exactly i know and And I'm like, that's not healthy either. I'm being objective. Okay. So was there ever a point in your career where you had a lull where you didn't know if you were going to continue acting?

Yes. Because I just can't imagine doing something for that many years. That's your whole life. Yeah. It is. Yes. Like you never wanted to be a secretary or anything? I did.

I wanted to be all those stereotypical things that actresses want to be. A therapist or interior decorator. um so i i like you know toyed around with those things and then when i went to high school i was sort of like i already have this thing and if i just do this thing i don't have to do any more homework yeah so i'll never have to study again so i'll just do this by the end of my 20s i really wasn't working very much and then i did a tv show pan am and then when that was canceled i really didn't work i mean i worked but not the level i wanted to work at and so were you able to afford to like live financially yeah I was able to support myself but by doing things that like

you know I like watching Lifetime movies I don't really want to be in them right but you know that is one way that I supported myself during that lull and there's you know there are other things well it's also nice to also be able to come out of that lull and now look back and be like wow because some people would have too much pride to do something like that you know not that Lifetime is the bottom of the barrel because I also enjoy watching Lifetime movies I mean that's what dreams in bed were made of you know like sunday days before we had all of these streamers that's what you did on a sunday was watch one lifetime movie after another but i hear you about not wanting to be in them you know yeah not your heart's desire no no no so but then this tv show

i'm on now yellow jackets really changed that for me yeah of course huge hit yellow jackets which is on showtime with melanie linsky i mean you have such a great cast yes everybody's so incredible That's the other thing. You've worked with so many incredible women from Winona Ryder to Cher to this whole cast of Yellow Jackets. Talk to me about that, those relationships. Like, is there someone who's had a huge impact on you that you only spend a short amount of time with? Well, I think that all of the women I worked with when I was very young, you know, like my first movie was with Cher. My second movie was with Angelica Houston. I worked with Ellen Burstyn in between those movies. Like I worked with a lot of older women at the time that were just so self-possessed and powerful without being dickheads and smart and just educated me in so many ways. And I think that that was really helpful for me to see as a little girl. Yeah. Well, because sometimes I think when you have experiences with people like that, that are like huge kind of almost figureheads, it's not even about them necessarily teaching you. It's about watching them do their thing. And learning from them, right? Yes. Yeah. Because Cher is such a force. And I think I heard you talk about her once that she was like kind of, you know, took care of you on set since you were such a young kid.

She would hide me in the back of her trailer when they had production meetings because she didn't want me to ever feel like I didn't know what was happening, and it made me feel nervous. Oh, wow. Yeah, and she was like, I know everyone's going to think I'm crazy if I want you to be in the production meeting, so you just sit in the back so you can hear what's going on. Oh, that's very cool. Yeah. And I, there was also, I didn't realize it at the time, but we were, well, I did realize this. We were changing, the director was being replaced. And one of the reasons he was being replaced was because he really didn't like my performance. And I think that she was afraid that somehow I would hear that, like some little bit of that, and then turn it into something bigger. So she wanted me to hear the actual production meetings. Yeah. So when you have a career that is this long, right, and successful, even though you've had some lows, which is to be expected. I don't know anybody who hasn't. What is your relationship to your work and to your career? Well, it took me a really long time to consider myself an artist, really. Not until I was in my 30s. Yeah, like late 30s. After all the opportunities had passed and I was like, I was an artist and I never appreciated any of it. You know, that was when I really came to terms with it and finally accepted myself.

But I feel very strongly now about my work, whereas in the past I didn't really. I had a very sort of nihilistic attitude towards many things. And one of them was my work. But now I feel very connected. I feel very passionate about it. I feel very protective of it. And I think I used to view all that stuff as someone being pretentious. And so as I've gotten older, I've gotten more comfortable with like, that's not pretentious.

It's just somebody who, you know, is treating their talent or skill the way it should be treated. It's kind of how you feel when you're in a situation when it's mostly, like, male-dominated, like, in most every industry, basically. And you want to be, like, the girl that gets along with everybody, you know? Like, I've had that experience where I want to be the girl that's, like, the cool girl. But you don't realize in doing that you're sublimating what you need, and then you're also sublimating the women around you. Yes. Because you're trying to make inroads with the guy. I'm not talking about you right now.

I'm talking about me with the guys so that you're not the problem. You're not difficult. You're fun. You get the joke. You know, you guys can be dirty around me. I get it. I get it. And you don't realize how damaging that is until you are older and realize that that's false.

You're basically feeding into this whole male domination by acting like that instead of congregating with the women. Yeah. So I would imagine that's how you feel about like how many people feel about their craft, too. It's like what makes you a strong actor, like you saying that you thought that was pretentious, is actually empowering, right, to know what your skill set is. Yes, and standing up for yourself and, you know, being able to come and say, you know, I do my best work when this is what I need. But also, like, being willing to reciprocate that for other people. And, yeah, and what I've noticed, too, is, like, the more you stand up for yourself, it inspires people around to sort of set their boundaries and their needs, which is kind of in line with what you're saying as well. You know, it's beneficial to everybody.

Because it's like you saw the example of people like Sharon, Ellen Burstyn, Angelica Houston, and then you want to set that example also for the younger people that you're going to be working with. Yeah, and it's easier for other people to stand up for themselves when someone else is doing it right next to them. You know what I mean? Totally. when especially on a cast with many actors like if one actor agrees to like sit on the side of the road in between setups then everybody has to sit on the side of the road you know what i mean but like the more people stand up and say like no actually i'm gonna go to my negotiated place to sit down until you're ready for you know the more other people stand up for themselves the more

everybody can i don't know okay and you're a mom that's right you have two children i do i have a 10 year old and a two oh wow she's almost three years old okay and so how how is that being a mother it's good I mean I love being a mother I love my kids but I think just like most mothers sometimes it's absolutely awful what are the awful parts just like fighting with your kid to do homework school anything school related it's really a nightmare it's worse in these towns than it is everywhere else in the world. New York and L.A., like, for school is a nightmare on multiple levels for children and the work,

but also because of the parrying to get into schools. Yes. And having to, like, you know, basically submit in, like, a... College admission type of thing. Yeah, when you're six months pregnant. It's really scary. Yes, that stuff is scary.

And then when you have a child that turns into, like, a wolverine, feral creature any time, you're like, do your 30 minutes of reading. and that's your 10 year old like it's yeah it's uh that that part i don't enjoy but there's lots of fun stuff too yeah i would obviously yeah obviously i just always like to focus on the negative i do too though and then i end up sounding like such a jerk no no okay well tell us tell us your favorite parts too so we don't only have that in the interview of of being a mother like what are they very snuggly snuggly but think about a moment i want you to like think about a moment

that really made you go, oh, my God, like, this is magic? I think, well, I spend a lot of time with my son, and we travel together. And the last couple of flights we've taken, like, he's just, it's just fun to see them learn and grow. And, like, now the way he travels is exactly the way I travel. And, like, he does everything, and, like, how even to ask for things and how we do it and where we line up

and how early we need to be at the gate because Mommy's crazy. um and it's just it's just really but it's just fun to see it you know yeah and have you been married or is that yes i've been married twice this is my i'm on my second marriage oh you're on your second marriage well congratulations that's exciting i got through that first one great that's a practice marriage exactly exactly and how did you two meet well he has been doing hair in for fashion for god like 20 years and I met him on a photo shoot but I was still married so I didn't really meet him until after I was separated like two years later and did you get married when you were young your first marriage no I was 31 oh okay so no excuse for that mistake

well it's not a mistake because you have your son from it so there you go that's your net gain yes yes right did you find I mean I wonder what it's like because you weren't married to a famous person right so what did you feel like how did you feel about that dynamic when one person is famous and the other person isn't i mean it's not great all the time you know i wonder what it would be like though to i mean two famous people is that better or is that worse i don't know i've never dated anyone famous yeah i don't know yeah i i don't know i i don't you know it's it's weird like people defer to you a lot of times don't acknowledge the other person totally things like that that just aren't nice you become a plus one yeah the person becomes a plus one yeah and you

know i i'm not comfortable with that but you know it's just human nature yeah it is human nature and some people are okay in that role you know that saying there's a gardener and there's a flower like there's a flower and there's a gardener i love that because like i want to be the flower and i want my person to be the gardener yes i'd like to be a gardener but then sometimes you have two flowers and you're like where's the fucking gardener no there's no water. And that's a really hard, I think, dynamic. I can't even imagine. And do you think it keeps you more grounded? Because you seem fairly normal. And this short time we've spent together, you seem fairly normal. You know, I don't actually like attention. I don't like

attention. I always find that interesting when actors say that. I know. It's weird. I don't like my picture taken. I don't like attention. I love being on like the outside of the room and watching people I'm not overly friendly but my husband is like incredibly like gregarious and warm and takes care of everyone in the room so it really works with Mark because even if somebody would were to treat us as me with a plus one and he's my plus one well the plus one's the only one talking to you so you know so he actually becomes the guest you know so it's great it works that's cute and who what about your so your daughter's two with mark right and what's her personality like she's amazing does she look exactly like you i would imagine you have very strong dominant

features she looks a lot like me i think we have the same eyes and then my son has my eyes but they're bright blue which is pretty amazing he's really quite gorgeous and she's so beautiful and adorable and but she's like a feral creature and she's very she has a lot of boundaries and she's very strong and i was like my son was just like attached to me needed me all the time and you have to ask her permission to kiss her yeah be like cleo mommy's gonna kiss you goodbye now and she's like no mommy not today that's funny i was at this trick-or-treating thing for my nieces and nephews and my uh assistant karen has a daughter willow who's three and she kisses everyone on the lips everyone it was like you have to meet willow she'll kiss you on the lips i'm like i'm coming

over i want a kiss on the lips from a little fat nugget she's such a nugget yeah and of course i didn't get one you know but i was like what are you guys gonna do when you send her to school she can't just go around kissing everybody on the lips like she'll grow i know but when i'm like if she needs to learn about her she wants to hold hands with all strangers and kiss everybody on the lips but um i like having boundaries at three that's pretty funny yeah she's amazing she just she will say no she'll say no touching right now please and i need some space wow i mean i frustrated i need i need some space and then i'm like okay cool fine go take your space and yeah she's just very willful very strong she's big very tall

which is surprising because i'm not very tall no but yeah she's that she has like a cat-like personality so when she finally does like completely melts and just is all over you you feels really good because you feel like it's really based on something yeah yeah like with cats That's an interesting way to describe your relationship with your daughter. I think that's intriguing. I have a lot of respect for her. I do too. I love it.

That's great. I respect her too, just hearing about her. You would also respect her. She sounds like a badass. She really commands a lot of respect. Okay. So we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Christina Ricci. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple.

Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. but these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page

are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

See you between the pages. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts.

You go with it. And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now-husband, Andrew, was the one. He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood. He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our town is small taters by most standards, right? but to the people who grew up here, it's everything.

What happens when a quiet Tennessee town becomes the front line in a battle over the future of America? Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land in the area. The first thing you see when it pops up is pioneers in Appalachia. But they weren't just planting houses. We need cities on a shining hill that exemplify and embody the Christian way of life. Stop right there. Is that normal? A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment.

God need men to rule. Great. And decides to fight back. Do not use my hard work to sell your bulls**t. They're not just opposing what's being planned for here. Our hometown is not a test tube. They feel like they're standing in opposition to an entire administration. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back with Christina Ricci. Well, our first email comes from Rebecca. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a 28-year-old codependent millennial who was in a controlling relationship. I finally sought professional help and therapy and medicine helped me begin healing. In my journey of healing, rediscovery, and homecoming, I met a man who helped me become a better version of myself. We met a little over a year ago and have been together ever since.

It's the partnership I want in my life. He supported me when I'm down, held me when I'm anxious, took care of me when I'm sick, and motivates me to want to be a better and higher version of myself. However, he feels that I have not been honest with him about my body count. It's like the number of people you've slept with. Wow. Yeah. And he doesn't like the lower...

I'm surprised. I knew it was body count, but I'm just surprised she's upset about this. Right. It seems so trivial. If he's so great. Yeah. It's not over 15, but it's more than eight. Oh, for God's sakes.

It's the only contentious point in our relationship and the only thing we argue about. I fear this will never be resolved. That is so stupid. I mean, this is so stupid. It's also a really low number. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. You're fine.

Do you know how many times I've tried to count how many people I've had sex with? You know when you're in your 20s and you're like, one, two, and then you're like, I can't even. and then three days later you were like, I remember three more guys. I had like an, I had,

I actually wrote them down at one point and then found the list and was adding to it because I was like, I'll forget. Well, as you remember

and as you have more encounters. Absolutely. But it should be limited. I mean, who gives a shit how many people anyone had sex with? Agreed.

The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. Right? And she says, you know, she doesn't want to keep arguing about this but,

you know, one of the qualities he wants in a girl is someone with a lower body count. Maybe he needs to do some work on himself. and his insecurities.

Absolutely. I think that's true. You can't, this is the beginning of it. Like, that is somebody who's hiding their jealousy and they're hiding

their controlling, like, behavior. And that is going to come out because anyone who cares what you did in your past before you met them, like,

everyone has had sex with lots of people. Some people have had sex with fewer people. But that can't be a stipulation. So if the answer is above the number he feels comfortable with,

then what? Then you're broken up? What does he want her to do? Yeah, there's no way to change it. You can't change it. Exactly.

But he thinks she's lying. Yeah, he thinks it's more than what she's saying. I would just say that this is a harbinger of things to come. It's not a good sign. Yeah. If you're seeing these little controlling things come out now and you were previously in a controlling relationship, that should be a big red flag that maybe this is more of a controlling relationship than he's let on, like you said.

Absolutely, because I had a relationship with somebody who tried to pretend like he wasn't controlling, that wasn't, oh, I love the way you are. I love that you're so free. I love that you ski topless, blah, blah, blah. Guess what? He didn't like any of those things. And it didn't come out until about seven months into our relationship. And I was like, oh, you were pretending that you were okay with my personality and you're

not okay with my personality. So yeah, I would just say that's, that doesn't look good. That's a big red flag. Yeah. His deal breaker should be your deal breaker. Because it's judgment also. And you're not, why are you judging the person that you are in love with? Like, why would you judge them?

It has no impact on your current relationship. No, it has no impact at all. Yeah. Right. So goodbye, guy. Yeah, good luck, Rebecca. Blow that emotionally unsafe whistle and get out of there. Yeah, yeah.

Your emotional whistle? The emotionally unsafe whistle. Oh. I just did. I wanted one really badly. So, like, I could be in any situation just like. And then, like, my protective troll would, like, come out from somewhere and be like, what have you done again?

And, like, pick me up and take me to safety. I like that. I feel emotionally unsafe right now. Yes. I'm leaving. Woo-woo. Well, our next question comes from Dolly. Is it Dolly Parton?

Didn't we try to get Dolly on the podcast? We did, and we're still trying. Yeah, she better come on. Dolly, come visit us, please. Oh, look at this cutie. Dolly says, Dear Chelsea, I've been listening to the pod since the beginning.

I feel excited to finally have an issue that I feel is worthy of input. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law are both 36. Let's call them Victor and Kathy. They've been married for almost 10 years and have two kids in elementary school. My husband and I have been marginally privy to their ongoing fights, tit-for-tat jabs,

revenge spending, and recurring threats of divorce over the last five years. My husband has a decent relationship with his brother, and I do with my sister-in-law, Kathy, but there's always a feeling of walking on eggshells around them. Through the years, I've encouraged couples therapy, individual therapy, and given a book on building a healthy marriage. I even had conversations encouraging them to reflect on what this relationship is doing to their children. It always seems like things get a little bit better, and then no work is invested into the relationship. She can tell us a little bit more about this, but recently there was a situation where they

got in a fight late at night, Kathy left, Victor also left the kids at home, and now Kathy's gotten into therapy. It just feels like a vicious cycle where things get better and then the fights keep escalating. I'm at a loss because I feel I can no longer act as a blissfully ignorant bystander, knowing the negative impact their relationship has on each other and their kids. How do I encourage them to invest time into bettering their marriage, or maybe better yet, calling it quits? dolly hi there hello hi this is our special guest christina ricci today hi oh my gosh how cool i know right okay so she just started going to therapy she was supposed to this week and i haven't heard any progress on that so i'm not sure if that has actually been held up or not

but so what kind of like how do these fights escalate what happens they scream and yell What I've seen is it's more like passive aggressive comments and then it sort of escalates into them talking poorly about each other in front of the kids, in front of other people. And then it's always alcohol involved too. So, you know, that always kind of escalates emotions and people aren't acting like their best selves. And yeah, I mean, it just really depends on the situation of what triggers them. It's not like one thing necessarily. Right. And what have you ever had a conversation with your sister-in-law? I have. Yeah.

And it always kind of gets cut short in a way. It's like a sensitive subject. And if I try to bring it up, it will be shut down pretty quick. So that's also a sticking point because it doesn't feel like she's really receptive to anything that I have to say. Well, she's probably not because they're stuck in this kind of like bad cycle of behavior. So they're probably not very open to hearing any criticism about it because they're both just kind of like swimming, you know, trying to stay afloat. So what are you and your husband thinking about doing? Has he spoken to his brother?

Yeah, we both have talked to the same gender partner, you know, spouse. but yeah we've really encouraged therapy and going individually and as a couple and it just has always met with like we don't have time the kids this and then we offer to watch the kids and there's like no follow-up for them asking for help either so I don't know I feel like at a loss of not really knowing what to do because I feel that we've both encouraged what we think they should do? I just think you can't make somebody force people to like go work on their marriage. It's nice that you care and that you're thinking about them and that you're observing it. The only thing you can really do is have like a meaningful conversation that you're that is very

pointed to say, listen, I see that you're unhappy. Like, are you happy? Do you feel happy in this relationship? Like, I want to know, because if you do feel happy, then fine, then that's it. from what I'm seeing, it just feels really damaging for you guys to be talking about each other in front of the kids. And there just seems to be a lot of fighting. And I just feel like it doesn't have to be this way. Not that she should leave him, but they should at least try to work together towards a more common ground where they can get along in a nicer way and be more pleasant to be around. But beyond that, I just don't think that it's anyone's place to be like, okay, you guys, it's time to get divorced or it's time to whatever. You can only be,

whatever your tactic has been up till now should probably flip because that hasn't yielded any results. Right. And so, so how would you describe the tactic that you've used thus far? I'm pretty conflict adverse or anti-confrontation. So it's more just conversations if it comes up naturally with her and then I'll give my thoughts on things. But I'm not ever the one that's driving the conversation, if that makes sense. But it's always kind of lingering back there of when the next fight is going to happen. Would you describe their behavior towards each other as like abusive? I mean, I haven't seen it, but from their personal accounts of things, yes, there is some abusive like verbal abuse some physical intimidation some yeah of that other stuff going

on too so that's also why I feel like a push against like I need to do something because of the kids and like it's impacting their whole household how old are the kids their elementary age yeah it's really bad for them I mean if anything I would say just really be there for those kids you know but but i think having an honest conversation with the parents about what this sort of stuff actually does to children's brains and how negatively it affects them like it can change a child's brain and development and what kind of partner they choose yes it has incredibly negative impacts fighting in front of children and if it's abusive in nature then they could already have ptsd and you know what i mean like really be traumatized so i think that's the

conversation to have like you guys you're grown-ups you get to make all your choices but there's two little kids here who have no say and you're supposed to protect them so they have to do something about if i would think that they would do something about their marriage based on their concern for their children right is there any scenario that you could imagine where you and your husband sit down with him and his wife together and have this kind of conversation? I think so. Yeah. Because maybe that's a different tact. That's serious. You know, if you're sitting down and you're like, listen, we're here because we're seeing the impact of your relationship and the

impact it's having on the children. And we want to support you in whatever way we can. But there is a discussion to be had. And all the things that Christine is talking about, like there's all these books to support. I mean, there's a million. Yeah, do some research. Bring some facts. Exactly. And be like, you know, this has such a deleterious impact on kids' brains growing up with that. And, you know, you might not think of anything because you guys are used to talking to each other like this. But then you're creating a situation where your kid grows up thinking that's the way you talk to other people. And then they're going to find themselves in a similar relationship. Or it could have an even more serious impact on them. You know, I think you like you show up armed with stuff and and and in the most loving way, obviously, to be there for them. But you should make it all about the kids so that it's that's the focus. Then they have they're both motivated to do something. Right.

Yeah. They can be heroes instead of being to blame. Right. You know. Right. And one thing that might be a little bit less confrontational for you or feel a little less confrontational is to ask questions like, is this how you guys want to be behaving in front of your kids? don't want to be fighting, do you? And another thing is I think people think, and a lot of times it doesn't, but people think that like couples counseling doesn't really do a lot. But when you get a good counselor and you're really like in it to win it, they give you tools to actually like disrupt these fights. You know, for example, when Brad and I were first married, we went to a couples counselor for like two years and it was great because it gave us these tools. Like, for example, if you're kind of arguing about the same thing for more than like half an hour, you just

stop, especially late at night, especially if you've been drinking. So it's like actual practical tools that they can get to like disrupt these patterns that they've developed. And if they shouldn't be together, a couples therapist will help them become more comfortable with the idea of separating. Right. And I think you should like present yourselves as the support system. Like we're, you know, in essence, the closest people to you because we're related to you. So we want to help you we want to be here for you we would hope you would do the same thing for us and this isn't a judgment it's just it's a little you know dysfunctional so like do you want to help yourselves because we want to help you we want to help take care of the kids so you guys can have

time to go to a couples counselor or spend more time alone together and go on date nights presented as that you know you're their best ally and that you're there to help them yeah for sure yeah thank your husband will be down with that, right? Oh, definitely. We're on the same page of everything, so it will be an easy sell. And there is a chance it'll all blow up in your face because they're not going to want to hear the truth, but you have to be prepared for that. Yeah. And I guess that's also why I'm cautious because I value the relationship that we have. But yeah, I think that it's worthy. I think so too. I think it is very worthy. What I find to be very disgruntling or I find myself very annoyed by is when people do not,

I'm an interloper. I like to get involved in people's problems and it doesn't always go well, believe me. But it takes a lot to say something to somebody that is uncomfortable, especially when you're conflict averse. Like it's an effort. It's not like you enjoy telling people,

hi, this is unhealthy and this dynamic is unhealthy. No one likes that. I don't get off on that, nor do you. But it's when you have concern for someone and they're like yeah and especially when there are children involved there's no better reason to get involved yeah you wouldn't be doing it unless you loved them really deeply and that's obviously where this is coming from yeah for sure yeah you want to follow up with us if you guys have this conversation and let us know how it goes for sure i will okay cool best of luck dolly

bye dolly thanks for calling in thank you well that was very she was sweet yeah no i know i hope That all kind of worked out. I mean, it's just so interesting because sometimes, are you an interloper at all? Do you get involved with, like, if... I, no. I don't. No, no, no. Don't.

But I don't really have, I have a few, well, actually, I have a few, I have very few close friendships where I would, but I have in the past been, like, with certain girlfriends. Time to cool it. Yeah. Or get your shit together. Yeah. But it is very difficult. It is very difficult.

yeah especially if somebody would can't hear anything you're saying yes you know but most people can't in my experience most people are like oh my god thank you so much and when people have interfered in my life and told me like hey you're a little bit off the rails right now i have never been more grateful in my life i love it to experience that feedback means people care about you exactly yeah it's take it's it's so it's effortful to actually have that uncomfortable conversation so you have to know it's coming from love it's not like people want to like what would be the motivation otherwise right right exactly well our next question comes from Beth she says dear Chelsea I'm a 33 year old female that is sick of my familial bullshit I'm a middle child of four

and we grew up in a church cult and were raised by emotionally neglectful parents one with alcoholism and the other a shopaholic I was the happy child who was always turned out so well for people. That's always a good story. I was the happy child who was always eager to please and stay out of trouble. As I left home, I met the man I call my husband of 11 years. From the moment my family met my spouse, they've been nothing but unsupportive. They judged him for his looks, for his wealth, and God knows what else made their minds deem him unfit for me. It's caused contention with my siblings, and I had a come-to-Jesus moment with my parents eight years ago when my therapist suggested I write a letter to discuss the hurt my parents

caused me and how I wanted to reconcile and move forward. This was not only thrown in my face but has ruined the relationship ever since. Slowly I realized over the years that my family is just kind of a bunch of assholes. So my question is when you feel like you've done what you can to have a relationship with your family but it hurts too much when is it time to move on? Thank you Beth. Hi. Hi. Hi. Look at you you're standing well you're sitting and you're alive and you You survived a cult. Look at you. I did. It was, you know, a lot of speaking in tongues and weekend retreats for church, but here we are, a blessed non-believer. Christina just said she was born into a mini-cult.

Yeah, but mine had no religious—not mine, my father's, not my fault—had no religious affiliations. It was pure therapy-based. Therapy? It was called the Center for Emotional Re-education, and it started with—he had a primal scream therapy group that then became his acolytes. But why does—that doesn't sound—I mean, cults have a very negative connotation. They're not positive, really, right? No, because—yeah, because the whole one person wanting to control everybody else is not a normal— Right, there's always one person in charge. That's not a normal impulse.

No. Usually a man. It's not healthy. Yes, usually a man. Generally nefarious. a man who's having sex with everyone probably i'm of the notion i think when you have exhausted all possibilities like i understand family is family i'm very close to my family i think highly of remaining and trying as hard as you can to be close with your family but when you're dealing

with that situation it's so irrational you know and i'm a fan of just saying enough is enough and moving on so that you can enjoy yourself and enjoy your life and be happy with your partner. Yeah, I hadn't seen my father since I was 15 when he died. I was like 38 for context. When she died. Yeah, and I don't speak to one of my siblings. And it is, you know, you do have,

I've experienced a lot of guilt over the years about it. But at the same time, those are negative influences on me. They were toxic. it was not healthy for me so you need to protect yourself you do and like the idea like the toxicity that these people have like the impact it has on you is really never like you can't overstate that enough that the impact that having that kind of negativity around you will yield in your life you really you're choosing like this is your opportunity you didn't get to choose whether or not you were born into a cult now you get to choose what your future is going to look like

and so you have every right to just say enough is enough do you have other brothers and sisters that you do talk to yeah how many siblings do you have I have three siblings and I'm really close with my sister and my oldest brother and then I'm close with my mother but you know my father was a crazy person uh-huh and unfortunately one of my brothers was you know it's not his fault because he was in an abusive situation but it resulted in behavior that was not safe for the other children around right and when it's and a big and when that happens then there is it doesn't of course it's no one's fault of the circumstances they're born into but that kid doesn't mean that you're allowed to be around them like that you have to allow yourself to you know allow them to be around

you or what have you yeah there's just so many outside opinions and i was just so curious to hear thoughts from you gals of, you know, what that looks like of, you know, well, you should be thankful your parents are alive. And it's like, well, when everything they say is a judgmental comment or something, you know, coming at you that isn't loving and accepting, should I? You know, I don't think so with my own maternal mother. It's never been accepting and loving. There's always been judgment. Yeah. I mean, you get to choose now as an adult how you want to be treated and who you want around you. And family should be held to almost the same standards as friends. If you don't enhance each other's lives, then what's the point? We can all feel bad enough

on our own. Why are you in it? Exactly. Don't need like an extra person to make me feel worse. Yeah. It's just something that's always felt like it's a guilt that I haven't been able to let go of. Well, they're alive and they're there. So why don't you keep trying? Well, both parties have to try and it's just been such a hard thing to try to let go of of yeah they're alive but they're just kind of shitty it's just not healthy yeah i think one thing i would encourage you to do like if you are making this decision to go no contact like for forever or for an extended period of time is to maybe this is through meditation maybe this is through therapy but find a way for yourself to sort of release some negativity around it and the guilt the guilt can

be a real killer you know like it's it's I used to wake up in the middle of the night that's my biggest problem is the guilt because right now I'm doing so well in my mental health space but when I'm not that guilt seeps back in and it's like you know you're a bad daughter you're a bad child you know whatever the case and it's like but no I'm not I think the more you do I don't know just from personal experience the more I did work on feeling like I was the most important person to myself you know then you feel less guilt or viewing yourself as your own child in a way you're protecting you yeah you know you are protecting little you from things you couldn't protect yourself from before just there are different ways that you'll learn in therapy to

view the situation or from doing research or reading that will help you feel less guilty I guess yeah I think the guilt is a big thing for everybody because you can always go back to that But I love what she just said. Christina just said about acting like it's your own child. Like, would you allow your child to be treated this way? Would you allow your child to be in a relationship where they're constantly being judged and made to feel bad? And then their partner, the person that they chose is also, you know, being judged. No, you're setting yourself up for just all sorts of negativity and, and guilt patterns. Like part of the reason why you feel guilty is because of the manipulation, you know? and so you really do want to do work to get rid of that guilt like you're you're empowering yourself by saying no more it's like talking to an abuser I mean if the relationship isn't feeding you it's doing something else so what's the opposite of feeding you it's taking from you right exactly yeah the biggest revelation I had this year was I have a couple family members who have had children and you know they're getting to an age where now I had those memories as a child

My mom said to me, and I'm like, I would never say that to my nephew or my niece, ever. And my own mother, you know, and dad did that. And it's like, I would never do that. You know, as their aunt who loves them, why would you ever? Are your parents still in the cult, did you say? Or are they out of it? No, but they're still avid Christians and love to use that guilt against you. Which is stupid.

I mean, all religion, you know, like, just stop it. It's insane. it is the root of all discord in our world you know yes it all comes down to religion like yeah and what's crazy is so yes they're they're avid christians but so are my in-laws the most loving and accepting humans who know i don't believe in god but couldn't care less you know go be with them you know that's where the light is go towards the light yeah i'm swimming towards it okay great you can swim walk you know rollerblade however you want to get there Yeah. Yeah, girl, get after it. Well, that's good. I'm glad. Do you feel better now?

My only question, I guess, would be because right now I am so good mentally what I've worked on throughout this year. When I am in my darkest places and my depression and anxiety and that guilt comes in, you know, what would be your biggest advice there to try to talk myself out of that? That that's where I struggle the most is when I'm not doing OK mentally. Well, that's where everyone struggles the most. And so, well, you know, a good example of this is that book, Letting Go. You should pick up that book. I just started listening to it. Oh, you did? Oh, well, then there you go. There's a whole section about guilt. And it's really quite beautiful. And I actually tried this the other night. I was stoned. So I just want to put

that out there because that helps me get to a little like more of a meditative place when I'm trying to be in touch with myself. But I was having all these kind of like negative emotions and I hadn't for a couple of weeks. I was feeling pretty high and vibing pretty high, right? And I had read Letting Go and it just set me straight. I read it every couple of years. It's this book by David Hawkins. Have you ever heard of it? I have. Okay. And I was sitting there and I was like, okay, the negative feelings you can't repress or suppress. You have to acknowledge and guilt is one of those feelings. So you acknowledge that it's there and you kind of think about where it is in your body. You know, when you're feeling anxious or uneasy, it's usually

in your stomach or it can be in your chest and sometimes it's in your head, right? Like you feel pressure. And so I remember I was lying in bed. I smoked a little bowl and I was like, I wonder where these feelings are coming from. What is the, what is the emotion behind it? Just like the book says, like, am I feeling insecure? Am I feeling fearful? Do I feel scarcity? Like what, what, where does this coming from? And I was like, don't try to figure out what it is. Just acknowledge that the feeling is there. And it was a very spiritual experience I had every, I felt it in my stomach and then it started to move and I was like, it's okay. It's okay. Just let it be here and it's going to disappear. So you're acknowledging it. You're not denying it,

right? Or repressing or suppressing it. And then I felt it kind of move up through my chest and it was really heavy and I felt it go through my throat and then it was gone. And that's what this book talks about. And I've never been able to accomplish that. I'm always like, oh, okay, how do you let go of these emotions that aren't serving you? Because it's not serving you. Guilt never serves anybody. And I woke up in the morning and I just felt like so much lighter than I had the day before. And I was back on track. So when you get to that part about guilt in this book, listen to it over and over and over again until you understand how it's just not of use to you and practice that. Like it's good to acknowledge

where you feel something in your body because then you're not running from it. And when you run from it is when it keeps coming back because you're not facing it. And you make terrible choices right avoidant behavior just leads to let me tell you yeah yeah so you seem awesome and you seem you know like a beautiful person and I don't want you to feel like you know hampered by your family or this obligation to them you know they've worn out their welcome and you don't have to write them off forever but when they want to come around in a loving positive way then you will welcome them with open arms yeah that makes complete sense I'm looking forward to that chapter just a couple chapters in not there yet oh okay good you'll you'll see what i'm talking about that's

wonderful thank you thank you so much beth yeah thanks everyone have a good day do you guys have any idea what i'm talking about when i say that absolutely the thing you were describing i had no idea that you could that you would ever be able to have that experience in such a tangible way i mean either i felt like letting things go to me has always felt like a metaphor yeah not just like right but in this book they tell you exactly what to do like you know to sit with these feelings that are uncomfortable and then surrender like okay I feel I feel envy or whatever the feeling because but do you engage with thoughts like do you like delve in and you're like great so I feel envy so I'm going to really experience how jealous I am of no no it's not like that it's more about

the actual feeling I accept it it's here okay okay it's here like I'm not in denial because you know sometimes if I felt envy in the past I would go I'd push it away like oh no no I just don't like that person right it's like no no you're envious you you don't not like this person you're just being you know I would just just completely ignore what's behind all those thoughts so that was a pretty metaphysical thing that happened to me the other night and I was like oh and it's a constant like you don't just surrender that and then the feeling is gone forever it can come back and then you have to do the same thing again but now I know that I actually felt it like move through my system that's crazy I want to try that yeah it's like the mind-body

connection like when you when you start to be able to feel okay I have this emotion but where is it physically and then you realize like oh yeah it's in my stomach or it's here or it's here it's here and then you can kind of process it a little bit more yeah yeah well all right we got to share that today yeah well let's take a quick break and we'll do a little quickie sister drama Oh, I love it. Okay, we're going to take a break and we're going to come back and wrap up with Christina Ricci. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com.

When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo,

and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now-husband, Andrew, was the one.

He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood. He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. pioneers in Appalachia. But they weren't just planning houses. We need cities on a shining hill that exemplify and embody the Christian way of life.

Stop right there. Is that normal? A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment. God need men to rule. Great. And decides to fight back. Do not use my hard work to sell your bulls**t. They're not just opposing what's being planned for here. Our hometown is not a test tube.

They feel like they're standing in opposition to an entire administration. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We are back. So our last email comes from Missy. Her subject line is, my sister got pregnant to compete with me. Dear Chelsea, I've had a long history of my two years older sister trying to take every

milestone in my life and turn it into a traumatic event in her life. When I got engaged years ago, she faked a cry for help suicide attempt. I've always had her back despite her obvious hatred of me. She's married now with a four-year-old son, and she's told everyone, friends and family, that she is done having kids. My husband and I have been trying for about a year, started fertility treatments two months ago, and I've purposely kept this a secret from my sister. Long story short, my mom spilled the beans to her, and I get a call from my sister five weeks later telling me she's four weeks pregnant,

way too early to tell anyone, let alone your infertile sister. Like she couldn't wait to tell me and my husband. I can't wrap my mind around why she would secretly try at the same time as me if it wasn't out of competition. I know this sounds crazy, but all of my friends that have known her past behavior are not shocked at all by this. I'm struggling to deal, and now I'm being alienated from my family. I can't for the life of me understand why my sister would want me to feel this hurt. Am I wrong for being angry? Missy.

Complicated. What do you think? It's a tricky one. It's tricky because I do think that a lot of this has to do with perspective. You know what I mean? Like she's... outside of in another context all of this could just be coincidence yeah and like people living

their lives and things happening and unfortunate times and but if you're a person who's been in the relationship and knows that it's more loaded than that then there's that element too but i think in situations like this i always feel like the only power i have is to not is to choose to not be affected by it yeah like why does it lessen your pregnancy any to have someone else get pregnant also yeah I would say that you're you're actively being you're part of the problem because of your reaction to your sister and if you're if your sister really is doing these things to get a rise out of you or that is part of her agenda it's working so you actually have to like retreat and actually figure out that your life doesn't have to be impacted so negatively by her and I know

that you're probably going, but you don't understand what she's done, all the things she's done to me. Yeah, I believe you that your sister's done a lot of things to you and you feel like she's undercutting you and stealing your thunder. But your behavior is as responsible for this dynamic as hers. Like your reaction to this is exactly what she's looking for. If everything you say is true and your motivations are what you think, she is trying to get a rise out of you. and she does want to compete with you. So you have to withdraw from that. And you have to do that with a lot of like work on yourself with your therapist, because you can't change her, but you can change yourself and you can change the way that you respond to her. And her baby is not your

baby. That's a totally separate situation. Your marriage is different from her marriage. You're going to have your sister, unfortunately, for a long time. So you better figure out a better way to cope with this. And what if you thought of it and thought, oh my God, how wonderful that my sister got pregnant. How fun we can raise our kids together. What if you just like turn the table so far on the situation that you create a completely different reality between you and your sister? Yeah. And I think especially since you are going through fertility stuff, like it makes everything feel so much more heightened. Yeah. Just in general, this is a very difficult time. We're dealing with this major election.

We're dealing with women's rights being rolled back. You're dealing with that IVF, which is a total dipsy doodle on your brain chemistry and everything. So you have to also just like sometimes take your emotions out of the situation and look at the situation like you're not involved in it. And I'm not saying any of the stuff you're saying is untrue, but you have to find a better way to deal with this because otherwise this is just a cycle that will continue. Yeah. Yeah. I also feel like she may be doing stuff to intentionally be hurtful, but there is also a world in which it's possible that she's just so self-involved and like thoughtless that she doesn't think about how it's impacting you at all. And the result is the same hurt and everything. And the what you need to do as far as like freeing yourself from this is the same. But she may also just be like not thinking about anybody but herself. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, on that note, Christina, how would you rate your advice giving today?

I mean, I think I'm not bad. I need to learn a few more words. I need to increase my vocabulary and perhaps my confidence. But I think I did okay, actually. I would give you an A. But I do think that we should make emotionally unsafe whistles. Yeah. Well, maybe that's what we'll name this episode, Emotionally Unsafe Whistles. Done. That's not a bad idea. Do you have a whistle? No, I don't. Okay, I'm going to get you a whistle. I'm going to get that sent over to you.

next offering to the public. Oh, yes. And also, this is a great holiday present, great Valentine's Day present, great all of the things that are coming up. It's Cat Full of Spiders, Tarot Deck and Guidebook, Christina Ricci's personal guidebook. So this is going to be really fun for your family members and your girlfriends and all of the things that we have coming up in the world. So please get yourself a copy. I'm going to take this to Whistler and play this with my friends. Not that you play tarot cards. I say that too sometimes. I keep making my 10-year-old son sit through readings. He hates it.

So what is your favorite thing to add? Do you go to tarot cards when you have a question about your life? Do you go? I have trouble focusing in on the issue at hand many times in my life. So sometimes I'll just kind of shuffle and draw a card. And that theme or question allows me to approach whatever sort of confusion I'm going through from a different perspective. Like, just the idea that, like, sometimes you're asking yourselves the wrong questions. And so this is a way of bringing in different questions and ideas to what you're going through.

So a lot of times I'll draw a card and just be like, well, how does that relate to what I'm going through? And does that give me insight? And, you know. Yeah. Okay. Well, great. I love it. You were so fun.

I loved meeting you. I was really happy to be on. I've been a huge fan of yours. Oh, my God. This has been really great. Why weren't you ever on Chelsea Lely? I don't know. Why wasn't I?

It was during my dry spell when I couldn't get out. You're like, that has been. You could have at least been on the round table. All right. Thank you, Christina. We'll see you guys next week. Okay, guys. Stand-up shows that I have coming up.

I am going to Texas this weekend. I'm going to Houston. I'm going to Austin, Houston, and then Sugar Land, Texas. Then I have my specials taping in Montclair, New Jersey. Those are all sold out. I have San Diego on 11-29. That has tickets available. Oh, I'm coming to Vegas on November 30th, right after Thanksgiving.

And there are tickets available for that. Then I'll be in Des Moines, Iowa, December 5th. December 6th is Omaha. And then December 28th, I'm coming to New Orleans right before New Year's. And then I'll be in Atlanta, Georgia on December 29th. And those are the rest of my stand-up dates for this year. It's over. New tour, new year.

If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are

equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Each week, we talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. Everyone has a good time, and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show.

We've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman, Adam Scott, Danny McBride, Ben Stiller, and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Turturro. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, The Longest Yard, or Spike Lee's Black Klansman. And on my new podcast, Delivering Happiness with Nick Turturro, I deliver pizza to a new guest. I've shared a slice with everyone, from Seth Rollins. What are you doing with my belt? To Bill Burr.

I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am. And now, we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Turturro. It's called happiness. Delivering happiness. And many, many more. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Delivering Happiness with Nick Turturro, and listen now. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.