Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Two Primary Suites with Mandy Moore

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

Chelsea is joined this week by Mandy Moore to talk about listening to her body and taking breaks, discovering a painful family secret, and touring while pregnant - and toting a toddler.  Then: A mom of 4 is forced to move back in with her ex.  A filmmaker has lost all passion for her career.  And Mandy is curious about finding more moments of joy.   * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Nick Stumpf Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. The Jonas Brothers are running it back. We live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brother hits that have defined a generation. One incredible celebration. One unforgettable night.

See the Jonas Brothers live at RBC Amphitheater September 28th. get tickets now at ticketmaster.ca jonas brothers the burning up tour all over again i survived nine months in captivity and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable abducted stalked controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. each week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions yeah i'm obsessed i'm obsessed listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts i'm hoda kotb host of the podcast joy 101 with hoda kotb you know i'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy like when my friend henry winkler offered advice to

aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Hi, Chelsea. I have been a home healthcare worker for the last two weeks. I want everyone to know that I have been in San Francisco with my older sister, Simone, caring for her, tending to her, bed sores.

No, she doesn't have any bed sores, but I'm hoping to give her some. You got to roll her over. I have to roll her over every morning after she gets off of me. She had back surgery, so my other sissy bomber, Shoshana, who's a registered nurse

and has an idea about how to take care of people, actually went there for the first two weeks, and then I took the last two weeks, and I have been in San Francisco, and I am and my sister is recuperating and I'm basically taking my medical practice I'm a farm to table gynecologist is what we've finally discovered she's like why do I need a pap smear every single morning and I'm like because I'm a doctor and you love like a little bit of torture and she's like how many more fucking deliveries are you going to get at my house

she doesn't talk like that I that's not fair I I'm the one who says fucking all the time but I had delivered weights, big weights, small weights, a Pilates mat, a Pilates ring, a kettlebell, and three pillows. All the very heavy things and one light thing. My sister is like, you are so fucking high maintenance. I'm like, this is not news to anyone. And she's like, no, I know, it's not. She's like, I'm actually surprised you're staying here and you didn't order your own fucking bed. I was like, believe me, I thought about it.

I mean, you're just going to have the comforts of home, kettlebells and pillows. And I got to surprise her with my big brother, Roy. I flew him in as a surprise so he could cook for her because we love his cooking. And so he's been with me. Well, he was here for a few days with me and Simone. And so she was so happy she cried when she saw him. And he's in Southeast Asia somewhere, right? He's actually Asian now.

He has converted completely to Asian. He's transitioned, yes. By marriage? No, he's in New Jersey. Nueva Jersey. And he is working there. He's waiting for his Filipino wife to come there married. He's waiting for her paperwork to go through so that she could move to New Jersey with him. He's actually living with my sister right now. My other sister, Shoshana. We have a very, very incestuous family. I mean, that's great, though. You guys all like each other

enough to stay together, live together. Yeah, we do like each other. So that's nice. That is a gift I should say that's that should be part of my list every morning I'm grateful for the fact that my family and I get along I mean that's huge so many people write in and they're like I just wish I could have what Chelsea has with her siblings because you're so close and oh I also met your sister-in-law yeah which I was confused because I was like oh is that Brad's brother and then I was like wait no sisters-in-law can mean two different things but she was sweet and she came with her friend julie i think she had mentioned that we had mentioned her on the podcast so she was pretty excited which show did they come to which which city they were in

rockford illinois oh rockford yeah yeah that was yes yeah yeah amanda's awesome and julie is her next door neighbor and amanda she's had a very similar transitional period of her life kind of like you have hers was sort of due to illness she had had a brain tumor seven or eight years ago and had surgery and sort of like kept up her very fast-paced lifestyle she's a nurse practitioner and then years later it recurred and she has changed her whole lifestyle she's like sees a shaman and you know is doing tons of meditation she used to have to take tons of drugs when she would have her MRIs done and now she just meditates through the whole thing like wow it's wild like Her life has been really transformed in a super beautiful way, and she's also brought

the sort of holistic knowledge that she's gained into her nursing practice, which is really, really cool, and it's really wonderful to see how her life has transformed. I love it. I love that. That's so nice. So inspiring. It's so nice to know that you can go from having to take so many drugs to just meditating, you know?

Seriously. Our guest today was the star of a little show called This Is Us, and she just had a baby, baby number two, and she's a singer, she's an actor, and she's a multitude of things. Please welcome Mandy Moore. Hi. Hello. I love that face of yours, Mandy. I'm like, what?

You're a double mother now. Double mother. I love it. I haven't thought of it that way. How are you doing? I'm well. How are you guys? We're great.

This is my co-host, Catherine. Hi. I'm Catherine. I'm Mandy. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Mandy. I was so happy to have you on, Mandy, because we met briefly at some event, who knows where. They all blend together, and I realized I had never really met you before.

No, we haven't, and I kick myself. I was never cool enough or invited or just it didn't work out to ever be on your multiple shows, so I never got to know you in that sense either. I know. Well, it doesn't matter about being cool enough because there's plenty of uncool people on a lot of my shows. So that's really not the criteria. It's usually a matter of what what usually would happen would be publicists would think certain clients wouldn't be able to handle being on my show. And then they thought other clients could handle. And just like it was it was such an unfair assessment of their own clients. you know, like so many people would be like, oh, no, no, that's not for our client. She's not going to go on that show. And I'd be like, what do you think is going to happen that I'm going to assault these people when they come and sit as my guest? I'm like, the roundtable was one element, but the interview, you don't just go off on somebody when they come on your show. You actually try to get

along with them. Of course. No, I know. I think I just I was having a very quiet period of my life and therefore just there was no reason to go on your show. Yeah. And we're here now. So who gives a show. Here we are. Here we are. Tell me how are you doing? Because I know you just had a baby very recently. He's almost a month old. I'm doing well, you know, tired, all the things, but it's really wonderful. And I'm enjoying it because I have a 20 month old little boy. And when I had him, I went back to work like a month later. So it's nice to not sort of have anything to jump immediately back into and to kind of enjoy this season of my life as it were. And yeah, so that's what I'm doing. And right in time for the holiday season,

Thanksgiving and Christmas, you get to enjoy yourself. So are those Irish twins? I mean, maybe technically, yeah. Gus was, yeah, 19 months when Ozzy was born. So yeah, they're very close. That was not planned that way, but we celebrate it and enjoy it even still. And, and you just wrapped your, you were, you went on a tour right before. Went on tour this, this summer. Yeah. Which was a terrible idea to do six months pregnant. It was really a lot more arduous. Like I hadn't been on the road and on a bus and done that whole life in 15 years. And it just, it's very different being a 23 year old young lady versus being pregnant and schlepping a toddler across the country. I was, I thought like,

oh, this will be easy. It's great. And then you're backstage in some grungy but fun club that's so much fun to play a show in at nine o'clock at night, but like not an ideal environment for a small child. It was, yeah, it was pretty hard, but it was great. It was fun to be on the road and to play shows. I just, yeah, it wasn't the ideal circumstance. I wasn't feeling great. Well, it's no, it's not ideal to be pregnant and performing. I can't even imagine what that's like. And it's never ideal really to be on a bus. You know what I mean? Like that is something as you get older, you're like, uh, no, no, no, no. This is not what it was like when I was in my twenties or thirties. And being on the road is not what it's like, what it was like when I was

in my twenties and thirties. Well, you're, how old are you? I'm 38. Yeah. Okay. So you're still in your thirties. Yeah. That's what I thought. How is the road for you? Well, I mean, I love doing stand-up again because I took a really long break from it for like six years and so I was able to kind of re-get you know I know you took a long break from it too because you were filming This Is Us for so many years which everybody can watch on Hulu. You know taking a break I find in my life an experience that it always yields the best results because when you come back you have an effervescence and an energy that you know many times we lose when we overdo things and we work so much. You know, sometimes we just can't keep that kind of level of enthusiasm up for what we

want to do. And I also was when I was younger, I just didn't I wasn't as responsible about my fans and about my audience. And I I do a show one night shit faced and like not care. You know, I was so exhausted all the time that I never I didn't know anything about self-care or being healthy on the road. Obviously, now it's a lot different. So I will not obviously, but it is a lot different now. So I take a lot better care of myself, but I'm still, it's still exhausting. I mean, anytime you travel, it's taxing on your body, right? Any, you know, travel, whether you're in a bus on a private plane or on a commercial plane, it's all, it all kind of knocks you out after a while. And you're so vulnerable and you're so like you, especially you're so present and

engaged and what you're sort of transmitting to the audience. Like it's, it's so emotionally draining as well that I don't think there's that same level of awareness when you're young. And like you said, you're sort of running on fumes. It only comes in the practice of self-care and having taken like a step away and taken that sort of downtime to really learn about yourself. Yeah. I think you have to be a lot more intentional now as a performer, recognizing like I'm going to have this clear delineation where I'm authentic and I'm giving people as much as myself as I can but also like at the end of the day I need to preserve and protect like some semblance of myself for me for my family for my loved ones my friends you know absolutely and I

think it's like it's it's easier now to like not go to dinner before the show you know to take the time and be like listen I'm expending a lot of energy because I used to diminish that like you always you know how women are we're always like I can do anything I can do it all and I'll be fine and it's like no you're not you're not fine and once you realize that about yourself you're like oh okay it's good to preserve your energy so that what you're doing and what you're getting paid to do you're doing the action you're coming out as the actual best version of yourself and not mailing it in or not how was this tour since it had been so long for you to be since you had been on tour how did this tour feel aside from being pregnant and obviously not feeling your best I mean you

basically got pregnant on your tour I'm just gonna say it Mandy she got knocked up on the road No, no, I, I, no, I, I'm a groupie. You guys, it's not even our husband. That would have made it easier. But my husband was on the road with me at that point. I was like, don't even look at me. Don't touch me. I would say it, it was different kind of echoing what you said. I know myself better. I'm more present. I'm more aware of more nervous, I would say, because I'm aware of like, the stakes now in a way that I wasn't before although this was still a very small tour it's not like I'm some huge pop artist that was going and selling out like arenas we were playing cool

little theaters and clubs and so there was a real intimacy and connection with like an audience like looking out and seeing people's faces in a way that I think I used to just not gloss over but whatever would sort of get me through the show. Now it was like, I really was aware of who was here and why they were here and what they were digging about certain parts of the show, like older music, music from newer records of mine and being able to be on stage with my husband and my brother-in-law who plays drums with me and is in a band with my husband and one of my very dear friends playing guitar on the other side of me. So it's like, I really was surrounded by people that I adore and am in awe of as musicians and that was really really really different I've

never toured that way before and probably won't get to again or at least for a really long time and even having Gus having my my child with me was so special I mean he was asleep long before we played but he'd come to sound check so being able to like look out and he had his little like headphones on and still sort of unaware of what mom and dad are doing. But one day we'll be able to tell him like, hey, we brought you across the country for, you know, a month and had baby brother in mom's belly. And we all kind of were doing this crazy endeavor together. And that'll be fun to be able to share one day. So in that sense, like it was totally worth it and so special. And I love that, you know, I got to do 15 shows and I scratched that itch, something I've wanted

to do for a really, really long time and other work had gotten in the way and a marriage and divorce had gotten in the way. There was so much that sort of happened in my life that kind of kept pushing off music for one reason or another. And so to finally have this sort of wish fulfillment of being on stage and it all kind of coming together in such a beautiful way. And then had the wherewithal to like really listen to myself and my body and say, I don't think this is the best thing for me right now. I really need to like take care of my health and get some rest because as we mentioned, no one really sleeps on a tour bus. And so that was it. Then I just called it a day and came home and rested for a couple months and then had a baby. Seriously. Did you

have to cut that tour short or did you? I did. Oh, you did. I didn't realize that. Yeah. I cut it like short. We did about half of the tour and had like a nice little break where I was like, I think I'm good. I think I'm good to sort of push the pause button and just be home. And we all got COVID. The universe was like, and you need to take a break. Isn't it funny, though, that as we get older, we can make those decisions more responsibly? You don't feel like you're letting everybody down. You know that taking care of yourself is paramount to anything else. And other people's expectations or disappointing people is like, it's irrelevant, really. You know, obviously, we don't aim to do that. But you have to take

and prioritize yourself in a more serious way. And I feel like in any other chapter of my life until now, I definitely would have ignored that little voice. I would have said, nope, I'm going to put everyone else's like expectations ahead of my own. And I would have just like soldered on and it probably would have been fine. but I feel like I'm a better woman and wife and mother and all of the things because I sort of listened to that intuition and took that time for myself. So I'm like, yeah, okay. And I sort of feel like as women, it's good for us to see examples of other women drawing those boundaries and delineating between like, nope, I can only do so much. I am human. I'm fallible. I need to listen to my myself and and listen to my body. And that's sort of what I did. And you're then, I guess, kind of giving other people to give themselves that same permission.

Yeah. Amen to that. I am. I mean, you're not Jewish, but I am. So I'll just keep saying I'll take it. Thanks. That's the right answer. I'll take it. So wait, can I ask you? I want to ask you, but I want to make sure you're OK to talk about your mom and your dad when your mom came out as a lesbian. Yes. Because I was just talking to my producer, Catherine, and she was filling me in. And I was like, oh, that's so juicy. Tell me what happened. You caught your mom having an affair? No, not exactly. So my parents were high school sweethearts and they were married for just shy of 30 years. And where did they go to high school? What state? In Florida, in Orlando. Okay. And they like, they grew up in Orlando when it was just like Orange Groves pre-Disney

world. And that's where we all grew up, my two brothers and myself. But, you know, I think there was sort of this point of pride having parents that were still together, sort of like, you know, looking around your friendship landscape and seeing marriages falling apart and families sort of diverging. And so it was always this real point of pride that my mom and dad were together. And I think being a young person in the industry, and I love my parents and having this fantastic foundation. Like I always had one of them on the road with me or traveling with me. And I think it's why I'm 38 and still have some semblance of a career because mom and dad kind of were there to keep things on the straight and narrow. But all of this to say, I was about 22, I think.

And at the point of adulthood where I was like very much living my own independent life. And I remember I was recording music in upstate New York and my parents both came up to visit me and I could tell something was weird. My mom played a lot of tennis growing up, like all when we were kids. And obviously then when we got older and left the house. And that's the first sign, everybody. Correct. It can be mom taking like a very concerted interest in tennis. So she was playing more tennis now that we were all out of the house and she had torn her Achilles tendon. And so she was up visiting me and she was scooting around on a little thing with her knee and her foot all like bound up healing. And there was just something off between my parents. And that was the first time I clocked that anything was sort of strange. Like they just had a weird energy between them. But of course, I never would have expected like they were separating or my dad had sort of found out. I think that my mom was having an affair with a female friend of hers right before their 30th

anniversary. And I think they were sort of in the midst, this was shortly thereafter. So they were in the midst of kind of figuring out what life was going to look like and what was going to sort of unfold from here and not telling us children about it yet. And we went a couple months later away for the holidays. And that was when things really felt weird. And it was me and my younger brother who's like 18 months younger than me and my mom and dad. And we were watching like a Christmas movie or something together. And I had bought my mom a laptop for Christmas and she'd asked me to set it up for her. So I was like doing all the things. And I remember getting to her email and I wasn't, I'm not a sneaky person just by nature. I'm not really like, yeah, I wasn't

thinking that I was going to find anything. And I was kind of mindlessly setting up her email box And my eyes kind of drifted to the draft box as I was like clicking on her emails. And I just quickly scanned this email that was addressed to myself and my two brothers. And it was sort of a, what I've come to realize was like an exercise from her therapist of writing to us and telling us what was going on and that she had fallen in love with this woman and was leaving my dad and how much she loved us. And I just froze and I quickly closed the laptop and I ran upstairs and my, my brother, I think was up there, my younger brother. And I was like, Kyle, you're not going to believe this. Like I

just, I was setting up mom's computer and I, but my immediate gut reaction was like, we have to go downstairs and confront them and tell them that I saw this thing. There's no way that I could keep this secret now, now that I know. And he thankfully had a cooler head about it and was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let her do this in her own way, in her own time. She wasn't expecting you to find that email. That's probably not how she wants us to all find out about this. And can't you tell the dad is really trying to savor this? This is maybe our last vacation as a family. Let's try to enjoy it. Let mom do this in her own way. And I did, but I had to sit for the next two or three days knowing what was going on and watching my mom text. And I'm like, you know, I don't know

who she's texting. She's probably texting this person. And I was so angry, but I had to sort of like let that simmer. Well, cause it's, it's two shockers. It's like the one shocker. And then the second shocker to find out your mom is gay or, you know, in love with a woman. And that's shocking, especially when you've had no idea prior to that. Wow. That is such a crazy story, Mandy. It's crazy. And my mother is still with her partner who she's been with ever since that day. And it took a lot of time away and therapy to sort of come around to finding our relationship again. My mom was the closest person in my teenage years at a time when I should have been sort of rebelling against my parents and not spending the time that I was sort of forced to because I live this very strange life and I always had them sort of in my corner and on the road with me. So it's weird to be sitting here as a 38-year-old woman, like not having that same close connection that I did with my mom when I was younger. And also we don't live in the same state and, you know, we're very different people in that sense. And I often wonder, like, even if life had sort of continued down the same path and my parents never split up or I just wonder, like, would we still feel as disconnected as we do today?

Or is it just solely in part because, you know, I really took like my dad's side, if there were sides to take. I felt like I immediately had to protect him. And I've always been a daddy's girl anyway, but being the only daughter, I just felt like I immediately needed to swoop in and like pick up the pieces of his shattered life and help him get into therapy and make sense of what was going on. And I mean, I know now that that wasn't my responsibility, but I kind of shunned my mom's side of the story in favor of just solely focusing on my dad. And that wasn't OK. And that was something I've made amends to her for since then. But family dynamics are so wild and tricky. And hopefully one day things will sort of find better footing. I think that they will. I think you're completely aware of why you have those feelings. It makes sense to have those feelings, especially as a young adult when you're 22 and your brain isn't even fully formed and your emotions are definitely not fully formed. And is your dad remarried?

He is. Did he find someone? He is. Oh, okay. Yeah, they're both like, they've both been with their respective partners for like 15 years now or 12 years or something, a long time. And they're very happy and everything is amicable between my parents. I mean, I think as you get older and now that, like, all of us kids are well into our 30s, their only connection is us. And there's just not much to sort of keep in touch about necessarily, which is strange.

I never would have thought, like, oh, my parents have just gone on these two divergent paths. But everybody's happier, and I think, like, they're with the people that they're supposed to be with, too. Yeah, yeah. I think it's, you know, we have to always practice empathy with our parents and understand the pressure that they felt and what they were going through, everyone except for my father. But, you know, like you, you know, to understand that they were struggling and she probably stayed in a marriage way longer than she wanted to just to keep you guys happy, you know,

and to empathize with that. Well, this is a perfect jumping off point. Unfortunately, your story is a great jumping off point for this podcast because we're going to have people call, zoom in, and we're going to give them life advice. Okay. And it's super fun. People with their own tricky family dynamics. I love it.

Well, I'm going to lean on you guys. You guys are going to do all the heavy lifting, right? Yeah, you just pop in when you feel passionate about something. Great. Well, we'll take a quick break, and we'll be right back with Mandy and Chelsea. The Jonas Brothers are running it back. We live the Burning Up Tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brothers hits that have defined a generation. One incredible celebration.

One unforgettable night. See the Jonas Brothers live at RBC Amphitheater, September 28th. Get tickets now at Ticketmaster.ca. Jonas Brothers, the Burning Up Tour, all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman.

I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility.

Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. Well, we have a lot of very interesting callers and an email today. our first caller is Becca. She lives in Portland. Dear Chelsea, I've been with my high school sweetheart for over 20 years, and I'm worried I'll never find a way out. We got married when I was 18, he was 19, and got pregnant with our first son five months later. By the time I was 24, I had four beautiful boys, all under the age of five. Her kids are 17, 16, 14, and 13 right now. Oh my god. Yeah, we were both raised conservative Christian. So getting married young, especially to the person you lost your virginity to, wasn't abnormal. We've gone through major changes together, like leaving Christianity because we just couldn't stomach it and didn't want to raise our kids in it, moving to the other side of the country for a more liberal and accepting culture, and supporting each other through college and career opportunities wherever possible.

We've also been each other's primary support system, like when his mom and my dad died within six months of each other while we were dating in high school. I was happy with our little life until we were really starting to become who we are now, post-Christianity. Since then, it has been a personal hell, now lasting over 10 years. We've gone to three different marriage therapists and were recently separated for a year in 2021 until this past summer. I was so happy having my own house and having a really healthy co-parenting dynamic as well

as a pretty good business partnership. He had joined my business right before we separated. After spending a year separated, I was ready to start the divorce paperwork, and he asked if we could try to work at it a little more instead. So I said yes, but slowly, and we would still be living apart. After a few weeks, the owner of the house I rented had an emergency and needed to sell quickly, so I moved back in with my husband temporarily. Now we're buying our family's dream house together, and I feel sick to my stomach daily,

but I know this is a very necessary and practical decision that I just have to do. I want to suck it up and try to wait it out until at least our older two have left the house, maybe two to five years, but being in a relationship I really don't want to be in is taking a toll on my mental health. Any advice? Becca. Oh, God. Hi. Hi there. This is Mandy Moore, our special guest today. Oh my God.

This makes my whole year. Oh, I mean, we just read your letter and oh God, my heart goes out to you. It sounds like, can you, okay, first of all, break down what's the problem? Why is it hell when you use that? That's a strong word. I think the best way I can summarize it is just, we're not compatible. we're really good friends and I have a ton of respect for him and he has a ton of respect for me but it's like I'm a square peg and he's a round hole and like trying to fit together

isn't working and it's kind of causing damage with each of us just as people so which we can do that we can sacrifice for our kids it's just not super healthy right is there a lot of arguing? Oh, no, we don't argue anymore. No, no, no. I mean, we can get into it, but we just choose not to, you know, we were more like conflict adverse at this point. Okay. And you're in the process of buying this dream house together with both of your monies. How is that working? So it's my money, but he's a contractor. So he's going to fix it up and I'm financing it, if that makes sense. Okay. And you made that decision because you wanted just to provide your kids with a dream house? Yes. And it helps us do a really good exit in like five years after

we sell it. So it's, it's super practical. Okay. Okay. Is there a way for you to live separate lives in this house that especially if you're building it or renovating it or doing something where you at least feel a little bit more comfortable to have some semblance of independence? Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out because I think we're both open to that, but it's hard to not get sucked in to the everyday life of everything with everyone.

I mean, if we're living like the year that we lived separately, we both grew so much, but it was because we each had a quiet house once a week. So us all being together, you just, you know, it's a big family and we, you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. You don't want to be like, okay, guys go away. You can't need me right now. So it's like trying to find a strategy and a structure to get through this time period is kind of what I'm trying to figure out. Okay. So that's good to know. So first of all, it's not, you're not in some abusive situation

where you're arguing on a daily basis or being talked to in a disrespectful way. So, okay. So this is okay. So I think it's a huge opportunity for you to create a completely, like Gwyneth Capalcho did with conscious uncoupling, you can create a new set of ideas for how your family is going to get through this next period of time. And complete honesty with your children and your husband is the most respectful way to do that. And with them about what you guys are planning to do. And I think sitting down with your husband and figuring out, can you have your own bedroom and can he have his own bedroom in this new house? Right? Oh, we could get to that eventually. That can be a dream. I did say that, like months ago, if I ever was to live with someone ever again,

I went to primary suites. I never want to stay in bed with a guy ever again, unless I need to. Unless it's an emergency. For certain occasions. And then you got to get out. I want to read my book. I want, I loved going to bed early. It was amazing. I had to do it for the first time. Oh, listen, you're talking to the choir. I love sleeping by my fucking self and I love going to bed at eight o'clock. I can't even tell you how much I love that. It's amazing. I know. So that's like the light at the end of the tunnel for me. It's just my own bed. If I had that, I'd be pretty good, honestly. Well, then you need to get that. That's going to be part of the deal moving forward.

Seriously. The standards are low here. We just need to get her a separate bedroom. Yeah, seriously. if that, look how happy you are even talking about it. I know. Well, and that's why I wrote in because I was like, okay, well, if anyone will know what to do, it's Chelsea. Okay. So listen, you need to set it up. You'd have to have a conversation with your husband and say, listen, I'm really looking forward, not dreading this new period of time that we're going to have with our family. Obviously your kids are the most important things to both of you. Otherwise you wouldn't be revisiting your marriage in the first place. So, but you have to make it very clear to him because you don't know giving yourself enough of the space within this marriage

may make you want to be in the marriage for a longer period of time even after your kids are gone I know that doesn't sound palatable in this moment but what you need is space we all need it you know and I think when we feel crowded and we feel we kind of sometimes feel suffocated by our families and by our husbands and this is like a perfect opportunity to try a different dynamic within your family and have him respect that and say, this is how it's going to be best for me to move forward. You are in your room. I'm in my room. We're going to operate as a family. And I want you to ask for what you need. And I'm going to ask for what I need. Yeah. I think that all makes perfect sense. So how do you help not get into that codependency kind of thing? What I think a lot

of couples and families can do, especially if you're in each other's space, just not identifying your own needs anymore because like your needs become their needs and you can't even tell the difference. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think it makes sense. And I think, listen, codependency is something that everybody experiences every time you're in a relationship. And I know it can be such a dirty phrase, but it's not. It's what happens when people are in a relationship. But if you want to get your independence back that involves and requires a constant conversation about like what the parameters are where you know you should use this as an experimental couple like okay let's do this for six months and then we'll we'll sit down and discuss is this working for you

is this working for me what could be better for you what could be better for me whether or not you guys want to continue to have sex with each other whether or not you guys want to be involved in each other's lives in your each other's social circles how do you want to handle all of that who's going to handle the kids and who's in charge of carpooling, who's in charge of food, who's in charge of this and that, and all the other things that come along with children, luckily, that I don't know about. But I think, you know what I mean? I think you have a huge opportunity to have a really healthy relationship moving forward with your husband. And who knows what it could spark? Because as long as you're taking care of yourself, you're not going to be

so resentful and you're not going to be so upset about the situation that you're living in. yeah and I also want to say like who says you can't have a night off maybe it's not something you tell your kids like I need a night off from you but they're teenagers maybe there's one night a week that you tell your husband like this is your night with the kids and maybe it's Fridays and my night with the kids is Saturdays and we each go do our own thing that night so that he can have a little freedom as well you can have some freedom did you ever see that show splitting up together is it with um jenna fisher and oliver hudson we have had both of them on the show but it's great they make a little bachelor pad in the backyard out of the garage to have continuity for

the kids the kids stay in the house and then each week the parents split off like they split it up they switch off i should say but it's kind of what we're talking about here i think i've i saw one episode of that maybe like five years ago. Maybe that's all of this. I love that idea. I guess a part of me is like when my kids were at their dad's house, I didn't feel like they could ever see that as rejection because they still saw me a little bit on those weeks. But to see me in the house and my doors locked and I guess I just got to get over it. He can take them out also like he can take them out to dinner. Yeah, I think, listen, everyone's codependent anyway. I think that language is kind of unhelpful sometimes. You know, Catherine, wouldn't you consider you

and Brad codependent? I mean, at some point. Yeah. What they say is like interdependent is the healthy version of that. But absolutely. I can't do anything without him. Mandy, what about you and your husband? Do you feel like you're interdependent? I don't know. That's a good question. I feel like I'm in a much healthier relationship now than I have been in the past, but I do feel, I do feel somewhat codependent. I mean, it's hard to be in a romantic relationship with somebody and not feel interdependent. Like it's, you just become, you know, and I just think, listen, I think what you really, it sounds like with you when you, because you're talking about your kids and your husband in kind of the same vein,

you need time to yourself. And that's something children respect boundaries. I know you're a mother and there's a huge responsibility that comes with that, but children respect boundaries. And you're also setting a great example by, you know, placing those boundaries, you know, for them. So when they're adults and they're dealing with their relationships with their children and significant others, they can also behave in a respectable manner. And so you saying like Saturday nights I'm off or from this period of time, even for this one hour each day I need for myself in my room, whatever you need is OK to ask for, you know, understanding that these are still children and that you're their mom. Right. And I think you're going to feel a lot healthier and a lot more optimistic, you know, about your situation instead of thinking that you're living in some sort of hell because you're not. This isn't hell, you know.

It's just not your most ideal situation. But you can make it one. Yeah. I like that. Okay. Yeah. Well, all good tips. Okay, great.

Great. Well, you know, keep us posted. Hit us up in like six months and let us know what's going on and how it worked. and if you got a second bedroom yes no you're gonna get that second bedroom that's a prerequisite you have to that's a man that this is a mandate yeah yeah non-negotiable yeah okay okay and good luck with your new house thank you so much i really appreciate it nice to meet you thanks becca meet you talk to you soon bye well that's not hell i mean it's not you know what i mean like hell is Iran. That's hell. Yeah. So I mean, isn't it funny though? Oh, that looks good. What

are you drinking? Lemon water? Coconut water. Oh, I could see there was a hue in it. I liked I'm very water sensitive because I hate water so much that I have to have flavors. So whenever I see anything in water, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What's that? Some electrolyte powder or something. Oh, absolutely. Water is so boring. Anytime I'm on a plane and they hand me like a little room temperature bottle of Dasani water. I want to throw it right out the window. Dasani is garbage. Dasani is literally just like tap water. It's made by Coca-Cola. So of course it's garbage. Yes. I thought that was going to be a much more depressing set of circumstances. I did too. She just literally needs like an hour to herself. She just needs her own room. I was like,

you're getting a new house. This seems easy. Yes. And from there, you know, like Chelsea said, is an investment opportunity and they can have that plan and be on their way out in a few years. I'm excited to see what her life looks like too once the kids all are grown up and out of the house because she was such a young wife, young mother. Yeah. Like, yeah, she's going to reclaim herself in this next chapter. That's so much to look forward to. Totally. And it's also too messy, like to move out and then move back in and then move out again. And it's like, that is very disruptive, even though the circumstances were, you know, prevented anything else from happening, maybe. But it would be so disruptive for the kids.

You know, that's so confusing and unfair to them. And at a certain point, you do have to be the parent when you are one, you know. Yeah. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying,

shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the pages hey this is hayes davenport and sean clements we host the

podcast hollywood handbook on the big money players network our show is extremely accessible to first-time listeners each week we talk to someone in show business aka the biz and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show we've had a lot of great guests like sarah sherman not that great actually can you help me can you help me shape this how about we flip it on its head how about we flip the script what if the surprise woman

who actually you think is the straight man is actually the one who's acting weird Adam Scott this entire time you've been expecting Adam Sandler to come to visit the show I would never expect

I would never set expectations for something like that to happen if the universe allows for something like that to happen i am open to it i'm always going to accept you know danny mcbride fine yeah it's all this fragile masculinity exuding i could smell it walking down the hallway to be honest with you i was like is that weed nope it's fragile masculinity ben stiller no because a lot of times in out of context people don't get it or even know what a circle is you know what i mean

like they're like oh what's the state everyone's so dumb except for you fake right fake and and also not interested or just like oh i've got my life i don't care about your life and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us oh and by the way will ferrell told us personally he loves the show and he wants to be a guest on every episode but he's just so busy listen to hollywood handbook on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts what else do we have katherine who's next well our next caller is carly carly says dear chelsea i'm a 28 year old female that works as a freelance video production project manager hiring crew managing schedules and budgets etc my work and income is steady my income is not as high

as i wish it was but i still have enough to live and be indulgent sometimes i also love the flexibility that being a freelancer provides. The problem is I've been working in the same lane for six years now, and I haven't really felt much growth in my career, in the path, or in my income. I have a lot of anxiety around feeling financially stable, but I'm also so exhausted from worrying about it. Worrying about money is the exact reason my parents got divorced, and I can feel it having an effect on my relationship as well. I don't love what I do, but I don't know where else to turn. I can see a future where I'm a successful business owner, but I can't figure out a path there or what it looks like. I know I have the skills to do something more, but I feel

stagnant and lost when it comes to my work life. So how do I stop worrying so I can kickstart my future and really start building something I'm proud of? Thank you, Carly. Hi, Carly. Hi, Carly. Hi, Carly. Hi, how are you? Hi, we have Mandy Moore here today as our special guest. Hi, Mandy. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Thank you guys for having me. Oh, absolutely. We're happy to talk to you. So you freelance mostly? I like your skis in the background. Thank you for that extra touch. You're welcome. I was just scrolling through Instagram to see where the most snow has been so far. I was like, I got a lot of snow. I'm in Evergreen, Colorado. But anyway, yes, I freelance. I have four steady

clients. And so I have steady income, but I just feel like I don't know what the next step is. I don't know where to go from here. I don't necessarily love what I do. And I feel like if I loved what I did, the money would follow. And it's just, it's exhausting. It's constantly just spiraling in my brain all the time. And you know, my partner doesn't love when I'm constantly worrying about the same thing in circles and, and just want to feel like I'm working towards something. And what is your line of work? Video production. I work a lot with ad agencies. So I do a lot of commercials and social media ads and stuff like that. Okay. And you're not passionate about it. No, not really. I mean, I like the project management aspect of it and I know I'm

good at what I do. I just, I don't know, I don't feel aligned with the work. But would you feel aligned with doing like video manage, like that kind of video management for something other, another subject since you have that skill set? Potentially, yeah. And I try and reach out to as many people as I can, outdoor stuff and surfing magazines and everything. And yeah, I just, nothing seems to come to fruition. And I think it's just because I'm not, my heart's not in it. Okay. I do kind of wonder. So you say you like the project management portion of it, but it's a lot running around. You're basically running your own business, but you are also the technician in your business. So you're the person going out and filming. You're on set every day. I wonder if you

may be at a point in your career where rather than find something totally different, it's time to level up. So where you are hiring somebody underneath you, a subcontractor to go out and actually be the technician who's actually doing the work and you are building a business because project management, that's what building a business is all about, is overseeing things, making sure people get where they need to be, that things get delivered on time and all that sort of thing. Is that somewhere where you see yourself in the future? Yes, I've definitely thought about that. And I think that would be amazing. I just don't know if I'm into video production anymore. I don't know. It's a weird thing. Like I just, it's again, like that's where

my skillset is and that's where I feel like I should be, but I want to try something new. Maybe there's some other path for me where I can use that, that same skillset and still be outside and not necessarily behind my laptop all day. Totally. Which I also understand is part of working too. What are you interested in doing? Like what do you like to do outside? Ski? What are you passionate about? Yeah, I live in the mountains. So I'm outside a lot just working like on our property, like chopping wood and skiing and stuff like that. And so I love that kind of stuff. And that is definitely like what I look forward to after work and on weekends and stuff like that. We have a dog. I've thought about my grandma thinks I should rescue animals.

But yeah, I don't know how I could make a career out of all of that, though, especially when I'm worried about financial stability. Well, I mean, what if you split up what you're doing? Like, what about if you love being outside? What about, I mean, I know a ski guide, you're not going to be making ridiculous amounts of money, but it combines two things that you really love, which is earning money and skiing.

What about doing something like that as a supplemental thing so that you can kind of start to figure out what will work in the future? You know what I mean? I think if you don't have to work like 100% in this one field that you're kind of over and you start giving yourself a little bit more space to enjoy the work that you're doing while you're still making money. I know ski guides don't make tons of money, but you know, you could be a private ski guide and make a decent amount of money with tips and

everything. If you know, if you were my ski guide, you'd be making a lot of money because I love that shit. You know, I mean, what about doing something like that and kind of splitting your time between the two things? More important before we continue, I think the negative conversation you're having about finances is having a deleterious impact on your whole vibe, right? And when you have a negative thought pattern and cycle of thoughts, you have to understand you're here because you got yourself here. You've made it this far, so you could depend on yourself. Worrying and worrying and worrying just grows an issue and it makes it bigger. So I really need you to either start meditating, start writing the gratitude list every single morning when you wake up, or start saying

positive affirmations to yourself because these things, while they sound silly, they change your energy level. They change your vibe. So once you practice, you put into practice, do you have any practices like either of those three things I just mentioned? Yeah, I do try to meditate quite a bit lately. I've kind of gotten away from it, but yeah, we'll try harder. Yes, I should try. Don't try, do it. I'm telling you, it will make a difference. It'll make a difference in your frequency and the vibes you're putting out. We get into negative thought patterns. That doesn't mean you're going to have these thought patterns forever there nothing is permanent nothing is permanent everything is temporary so if you could just keep that in mind this feeling of being broke

all the time is not permanent either it's temporary you have so much going for you you're a beautiful person you have a partner you seem like you love the outdoors it gives you so much joy like there's all these great things that are already happening in your life and this is just one one aspect of it that isn't where it needs to be right now and when you change the way you think about things things start to happen in a different way in your life. And opportunities will present themselves that maybe weren't there before. Yeah. Thank you. It's a great point. Yeah. And I think the financial stuff too, like Chelsea said, it is kind of all in your head. You've mentioned like, I have enough to live on, but I'm so stressed about money. And that

is something that can be reframed. Offline, I'll get your address, but I'm going to send you a couple of books. One is You Are a Badass, which will help you reframe a lot of things and maybe start thinking outside of the box of what your career might look like, what you love to do. And the other one is the sequel, You Are a Badass at Making Money. And that, for me, was so helpful in reframing how I thought about money, how I thought about my relationship to money, what it means. Because at the end of the day, it's just numbers. But it means so much more in our minds. It's this big, looming thing. And when you get a handle on how you feel about it, things do start to change. Thank you. Yeah. Mandy, I know you had sort of a very big,

scary career transition. Is there any wisdom you want to share about like what you went through? No, I mean, I'm just in awe listening to you, Chelsea, like off the top of your head, rattle off. Fantastic advice. I mean, I'm sure this is why you have this very podcast. I mean, I kept hearing you talk about the money aspect of things too. And it's like just finding, finding your passion and finding something to sort of bring a little bit more joy into your world. Like I feel like the money conversation becomes less of a thing and it will have less relevance and presence in your life. It's just echoing what you guys said. I love that idea though, of finding a way to create that balance of you're, you still have your responsibilities.

You're really good at your, at your job, but like maybe incorporating the skiing or bringing the outdoor component into your life and finding a way to make money doing that. And it's sort of like the best of both worlds. And it will maybe help bring whatever the next transition and chapter of your life and career may be. It may help sort of bring that into focus a little bit sooner. And just meeting new people too might be helpful. Yeah. Meeting new people like, you know, trail guiding, mountain biking, hiking, all of the things that sound like they're up your alley in Colorado. I mean, everyone in Colorado is into all of that stuff. So it seems like there's a lot of outlets for you. But I also would recommend, you know, sit down with yourself each morning and

write the things that bring you joy. You know, what makes you happy? And write those so that they're louder in your mind than the thoughts that are negative. Be grateful about all of the things that you do appreciate. You know, the fact that you love to chop wood, the fact that you love to be in the outdoors. You know, those are all gifts. And just keep thinking about that. And I think your conversation with yourself will start to change just by you rehabituating yourself. Yeah. Also start putting all of this on TikTok because I follow like three people on

TikTok and one of them is just like a woman who was a homesteader farmer lady and she just chops wood. It's amazing. Yeah, document it. People love all this stuff. Do you have an Instagram account? Start with that. That's so funny.

You know, this woman said to me, my makeup artist in New York, she was doing my makeup yesterday, and she goes, I had this vision of you with a female woodchopper. I go, what? And now I'm talking to you. I'm like, I go, am I a lesbian now? And she goes, I don't know. It was so weird. That is really weird.

Yeah, it really was. But she meant romantically. So I don't know. I mean, so that would be a big leap from this podcast to us dating. But, you know, it's funny. Maybe she is psychic. Stranger things have happened. This is true.

You're welcome to come chop wood with us. Anyway, you know, just do those things, take them into account. And seriously, just start doing these little practices because they make a difference in each person's life. And I can attest to it. I've had major transformations just by really listening to myself and trying to turn those negative thoughts upside down. And, you know, money, you can have your whole life to worry about that.

So worry about your happiness first. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, of course. Let us know how everything goes, okay? Good luck.

I will. Nice to meet you all. Good luck with your TikTok account. I'll meet you. Thanks. Look out for that. Okay. Bye.

Bye-bye. I love her. It's hard to tell somebody. It's like, hey, become a dentist. It's hard to tell somebody, like, what to do when they're in that situation without knowing that much about a person. But also, like, 28 is that time in your life where it's like, what the fuck am I doing? You know, lots of transitions. Yeah.

Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to finish up with Mandy and Chelsea. The Jonas Brothers are running it back. We live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brothers hits that have defined a generation. One incredible celebration. One unforgettable night. See the Jonas Brothers live at RBC Amphitheater, September 28th. Get tickets now at Ticketmaster.ca.

Jonas Brothers, the burnin' up tour all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for thought daughters pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse i'm eli rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and the conversations everyone can't

stop having i'm gonna have to look up this story i'm obsessed i'm obsessed from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments nothing is off the table it's Like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle.

I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind,

or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Katherine, which career, when you were mentioning Mandy's career transition, which one were you talking about?

I know, Mandy, you had mentioned before you made the jump to This Is Us, it was like you were sort of at your wits' end. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. I mean, I was like in a really toxic relationship and it sort of made me feel and my life feels so small.

And I think I had been working from such a young age and feeling like I had let the machine sort of cool down and trying to like start that back up again, what it felt impossible and felt like I just kept hitting every wall. And I thought like maybe it was the universe telling me like, you've had your time and be grateful for it. Now it's time to move on

and figure out what you want to do next and maybe go back to school, maybe move back to Florida. And so I had a lot to kind of unpack and fight through to sort of figure out and quiet, like you said, sort of quiet the negativity and figure out like how to just keep putting one foot in front of the other. So it did feel like a major point of transition in life. And isn't that so funny, though? It's so it's like the darkest before the dawn. And then you get this huge show that is just like a juggernaut for a society and and you were in that situation thinking that way about yourself yeah it was like this I'm no one likes me I'm not a good actor I can't like I would audition for things and it was just like nothing was firing on any cylinder whatsoever and so it

was difficult to go sort of reckon with myself like is this something I'm even passionate about anymore am I really any good at this like have I had my moment in the sun and again just be grateful for it and sort of bow out gracefully. There was like so many directions I sort of could have gone and then lo and behold, that particular job just sort of came into my life and changed everything. But I think I also had done a lot of the work in order for that opportunity to sort of present itself. I can so relate to that. I can so relate to all of those feelings. And it's so important for us to be talking about that because people look at us like we have all this success and all this, you know, everyone's a human being. Everybody has self-doubt. Everybody thinks like,

oh my God, is it, is my time in the sun over? Like I've had that exact thought at different parts of my career so many times going, I guess that's just it. And it's like, no, when you know what your purpose is and you know what your purpose is and you know, Catherine, what your purpose is, it's like, you're never done. There are just different phases to what is happening. And sometimes it doesn't feel great or it doesn't feel, but those are usually just young thoughts that creep up and we have these kinds of insecurities. And then right before you know it, you get another confirmation that you're exactly where you're supposed to be and you're doing exactly what you're meant to be doing.

Yeah. And those moments of self-doubt, like I've come to realize like those moments where just the natural ebb and flow of life of like the wave cresting and then falling back into the, it's all part of it. Those moments of downtime can be used as moments of reflection and fuel you for the next ride, wherever you're going after. You know what I mean? Like I've come to sort of try to view it, I guess, in that context. Yeah. My friend once said something to me. There's a time for planting and then there's a time to harvest. Don't forget about the time to plant like that is as valuable as harvesting. Yeah. And we get and when things get quiet, it's it's another growth spurt. But we don't always see it that way until it's over. And then we go, oh, oh. So how much more powerful would it be to have the growth spurt and know you're going through the growth spurt? Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

Well, as we wrap up, Mandy, is there any advice that you'd like to ask for from Chelsea? Yes. I'd love to hear both of you. I'm constantly asking myself this question, but I wonder what advice you would have in terms of what are some small ways that both of you find to bring a little bit of extra joy into your daily life? Well, I just started writing that gratitude thing every morning. my friend told me to do it for 21 days and I've passed the 21 days and now I got home last night

and I did it at night and then I did it again this morning and I have to say that like my level of joy has increased significantly since I started writing that list and that's a new thing for me but I am just joyful because when you have to write what you're grateful for you're I'm like my bed I'm room service like what am I you run out of things but then it just it's a such a reflection of how great things are, you know, and I guess maybe since the election, everything seems a little bit more joyful. So maybe I'm giving credit to something, you know, like that brings me like, I'm so happy. I'm so happy that this happened. And it's looking like, you know, democracy is still intact. And that makes me joyful. But I really think this thing about reminding yourself

what to be grateful for, because when you write it every morning, you know, you kind of want to like differentiate, you could repeat yourself, but, you know, makes you think about all the people in your family and it makes it all your friends and all the little people in your life that not little people, but the people you don't see as much or that play smaller roles in your life, you realize how integral they are, you know, as integral as the people you spend more time with. So it's always just a good reminder. And do you literally just write a list or do you like elaborate? I write could be like, I'm grateful for the dinner I had last night. I'm grateful for my assistant, Carla. I'm grateful for my bell. I'm grateful my sister had safe surgery. It's

just like can be all over the map. I'm grateful that my special is coming out on Netflix. You know, like it can be materialistic. It can be a person. It could be I'm grateful to be alive. I just yeah, I mean, I used to kind of eschew all of that kind of stuff. And now I'm really knee deep in all of it. And it shows like I feel younger and lighter and happier. Yeah. What about you, Catherine? What brings you joy? Well, this is something I've been doing lately that feels very outside of the box for me because I'm an excellent cook, but I am a terrible baker.

Like I know myself to be a bad baker. I always forget to put on a timer or I don't measure correctly. But I've decided to just do the easiest possible version of baking. I just looked up what is the easiest recipe for biscuits. And I've been making them and amazingly, they've been turning out perfectly. so like once a week I've just been making biscuits and I feel like Susie Homemaker like I can finally bake so that's something that's been just like small and I like brings me joy once a week so I love both of these things guys I might incorporate like a chocolate chip cookie

instead of a biscuit but I love that these are both two very very concrete bits of of advice in terms of bringing joy. I saw, I read somewhere recently that if you can just cook yourself one meal, even a week, just the act of cooking yourself the food and then eating the food is an act of joyfulness. And I was like, oh, and I'm like, you know, I do get some satisfaction when I make myself scrambled eggs that don't go, you know, sideways, like, or that start out as over easy and then turn into scrambles. Anyway, do you do anything, Mandy, like that? Do you have practice, like meditation or anything like that? I don't, but hearing some of your advice today on the show, I definitely want to be more active about incorporating that into my routine.

Yeah, especially with two little babies. You've got to really have to exercise probably so much patience, I can imagine, and we'll have to for the next 18 years. Yeah, exactly. But I'm going to start the gratitude journal and the gratitude journaling. That feels like a very easy practice to start and keep up. Awesome. Well, it was such a delight seeing you spending some time with you. You're so beautiful inside and out. Thanks. You too. Both of you. Thank you so much. This was such a fantastic way to spend an hour. I really appreciate it. Yeah. And I hope to see you sooner than later, Mandy. I hope so too. Thank you both. Have a good one. Thank you Mandy. Bye. Bye. If you are enjoying what you're hearing, you can subscribe to Dear Chelsea. That

is our podcast and you can rate us if you want yeah that's a great idea it actually makes a huge difference okay yeah yeah subscribe and and and comment yeah and follow so if you'd like advice from chelsea just send us an email at dear chelsea podcast at gmail.com dear chelsea is a production of iheart radio executive produced by nick stuff produced by katherine law and edited and engineered by brad dickert i survived nine months in captivity and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable abducted stalked controlled and nearly silenced these are stories about what it takes to make it

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