Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - We Don’t Condone Murder with Ari Graynor

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Actress Ari Graynor joins Chelsea to discuss the Menendez brothers and the evolution of their sentencing, why she can handle a snake but not a spider, and using dreams as part of her artistic process.  Then: A girlfriend of 2 years wants to live solo while her boyfriend is ready to move in together.  A co-worker crush gets second-guessed.  And a devoted mom is crushed when she finds out her mother-in-law read her journal.   * Pre-order a signed copy of Chelsea’s new book HERE! * Listener Wendy’s Podcast * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the Internet and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Hi, Chelsea.

Hi. Where are you at right now? You're all over. Well, it's been a rough run of things. I am dying. I'm sick. I just came from Sun Valley where I shot my birthday video. I seem to have picked up a cold on top of the infection that I have in my shoulder.

So I believe I'm dying. But I have been dying now for like three or four years and I feel like I'm fighting it really hard. So we went to Sun Valley, me and a bunch of my girlfriends, to shoot my birthday video. It was quite a production. There was a lot of moving parts. I had my friends, Reggie and Lola, Chris in Sun Valley, set up the whole thing and organize it. And it involved a lot of things, a lot of mountains, a lot of bikinis, a lot of skiing, and the sun came out just in time. Oh, beautiful. That's all you can hope for on your birthday. Well, my birthday's coming up. Tuesday is my birthday, everyone. February 25th. I turn 50

years old. I'm midlife joy. That's what we're calling it. Chelsea Joy Handler is experiencing midlife joy. My new book, I'll Have What She's Having, my seventh book. My seventh book is coming out on February 25th. I mean, I'm pretty pumped about turning 50. I'm not going to pretend that I'm upset about it because I'm not. I'm so happy for you. This is going to be the decade of your life. I foresee it. I see it.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. But even though I am dying, I feel amazing. I'm so pleased. I'm fighting this infection in my arm from my shoulder thing, and that's going away. Hopefully, I get my PICC line out February 24th, the day before my birthday. Great timing.

I've had one drink in four weeks. I had a beer the other night when we got to Sun Valley, just to celebrate in attitude. Then I announced my European tour, which is going to take place in May and June. I'm going to like 13, 16 cities in Europe from like Oslo, Reykjavik to Oslo, and Portugal, Lisbon, all these places. So that's pretty exciting. And yes, I know Lisbon is the capital of Portugal and Portugal isn't part of Lisbon. But I said it in the wrong order. So that's really exciting.

And then my Netflix special, which we just showed a clip of yesterday, is coming out March 25th. And I've just parted ways with Doug. Doug was met in Sun Valley by Mabel, who flew home with him while I flew back to Whistler because I'm having a birthday party, a pre-birthday party here before I leave for New York to promote my book. It's probably not suitable for children like Doug. No, my book is probably not suitable for children or adults for that matter. Our guest today stars in Winning Time, Mrs. America, and most recently, Monsters. She played Leslie Abramson in The Lyle and Eric Menendez Story. Please welcome actress Ari Grainer.

Hi, Juju. Hi. It's a Jew festival. How are you? It's a Jew fest. I'm great. How are you? Welcome to the podcast, Ari Grainer. I'm so happy to be on here and see you because we met a good jolly in years ago. Where did we meet? Refresh my memory, please. It was probably 17 to 18 years ago at Jenny and Jason's house. Oh, my God. Two hot messes. Two of the hottest messes. Actually, that's not fair to Jason. Jenny's really the hot mess of the two, even though Jason is also a hot mess. I miss them. Do you guys not see each other anymore? Where are you? You're in New York, right? I'm in New York. I'm in upstate New York now. Oh, yes. You just bought your first big girl house. I got a big girl house like six months before the pandemic. I bought like a house built

in 1803 with 62 acres and a barn built in 1796. And it's it's crazy. It's been like a whole it's amazing just in time to go back to that just to go back to that century. That's right. Everyone needs to step back into 1803. Well, congratulations on that. Thank you. Thank you. Isn't it nice to be a female homeowner? It truly, truly is. I mean, it was a wild thing doing it right before the pandemic. And I was dating somebody at the time, but he hadn't seen the place. And then we broke up and then it was pandemic. And me and my dog were just like, great, now we'll just face our existential crisis out on the land and in this new house. And it was a pretty wild thing. I think it's really powerful when you are a single woman and are able to buy property it shouldn't really

be but as I was reading her notes I don't I is this something that you were talking about because I thought it was a great point about how long ago it was it wasn't that long ago where we had to get man's permission to even have our name on a deed or to code they had to co-sign a credit card to co-vouch for us to get I mean what like the 70s like it was not that long ago what a nightmare that sounds like I really hope we're not headed back in that direction even though all fingers are pointing in that direction I know it's a scary time for sure but yeah I mean it's felt like the power of that like it was a huge internal sense of power of not only buying the place but then being here alone and having the space where it's like, you know, we have all these like images

of like the Marlboro Man or like men alone in the woods and doing their thing. But we don't really have that for women. And then when I was here and I was out on the land and doing my thing and being in solitude and being like, this is my place. This is a powerful. I like out on the land. Yeah. Do you have like chickens or any of that stuff, like animals out on the property? No, I mean, there's like the wild animals, you know, there's the occasional bear sighting. There's like some random weasel kind of creatures and muskrats by the pond and deer and fox. And, you know, it's like all of that. But I don't have chickens yet.

Eventually. Have you ever seen any of those black king snakes up there in upstate New York? Not a black king snake, I don't think. But there are snakes we call the big one, Mathilde. We say, bonjour, Mathilde. I don't know why she got named Mathilde. But there are these, like, enormous garden snakes. And one got in the house, but I wasn't home and my parents were here.

My mom sent me this picture of, like, a snake, like, this big that had, I guess, crawled through, like, the stone walls and was in the living room and she had to take it out. And I was very glad I wasn't home on that particular day. So I used to date this guy who had a house in upstate New York and he had this, and there was this guy that lived in one of the properties around him and he knew I have, I have like a phobia of snakes and they have all those black, thick king snakes up in upstate New York. And he told us he once opened up his cellar, turned on lights and I mean it was pitch black and all you saw were all these little sets of white eyes and that there were dozens and

dozens dozens and dozens of king snakes resting on top of each other no I was like that is like a horror scene from my worst nightmare movie yeah yeah luckily like the snakes are not the issue for me it's rodentia is the problem and so when I first moved here and and there was the first couple of mouse sightings I was like I just have to move I'll have to sell it I'm I'm outrun I'm leaving the house I can never go inside ever again so burn it down what is rodentia exactly isn't that any kind of rodent mice rats it's like if I see like a mouse I completely lose my shit and I've gotten better like the big like I could be alone for like months at a time and figure out how to make that be okay but if there was a mouse or a dead mouse in the house I was like this is

something I can't deal with this is this is like the true confrontation of my abilities but snakes like I'm okay that's funny I think people either have it about it's usually snakes or spiders and then it's usually yeah spiders like I can deal if I see a mouse I'm not excited but I'm not gonna lose it like if I saw a snake even in the wilderness I have an issue with them being there I'm okay with snakes not spiders yeah that holds up spiders okay too it's like it's something about the way the mouse moves. And I think I also had like a traumatic experience with a hamster in my youth. And I never quite got over it. Did it involve Richard Gere's butt? You know, that's why he had to move to Spain. He's actually he's on the right track. He got

the fuck out of here. I was like, wait, that story. It's so funny when you hear rumors like that for so many years and so many years that you know, that rumor that Richard Gere stuck a gerbil up his ass. But it's like, how can you be a person that goes around and those rumors are like, there's no recourse. You just have to sit there and take it. You just have to sit there because it's so ludicrous. It could be completely made up or it could be completely true. We'll never know. And maybe he doesn't remember. Maybe, maybe he was in the blackout. Ari, I was so, first of all, I'm so impressed with your acting. I think you're such a gifted and talented actress, as do many others, obviously. And I saw you in, it was at Mrs. America,

right you were amazing in that and then most recently you were in monsters the menendez brothers story playing leslie stall their attorney which sorry sorry sorry leslie abramson but leslie stall is great too i'd love to play her is she an attorney too i think she was on um 60 minutes perfect leslie stall leslie abramson blonde tight curls yeah it's the same it's all i am so eager to hear about your thoughts about the Menendez brothers and like what you think. I mean, are they getting evolving right now? Well, now, because Kim Kardashian is trying to get them out of jail and I think she's she's succeeding. Well, she was. I mean, you know, now look, I mean, I've been I was like embroiled for a year in playing their defense attorney. So obviously I

was coming at it from, you know, a very specific point of view. I strongly believe it's time for them to be out of jail. And Kim and all the Gen Zers who found the Menendez trial on YouTube when it came in in 2021 and then sort of started this movement like on TikTok with them. And then the DA who just who didn't get reelected was like, get them out of there. And now I just hope they don't get stuck in another round of political maneuvering because it's time and it feels like the sentiment is like, it's time to look at this. And then this new DA keeps pushing their trial date. And I think it just got moved again until March. It was supposed to be January 30th. But they've been in for 35 years. You know, they both got college degrees. They have been helping

hospice with older inmates. They started a green space program. They've never had another incident. And, you know, I think just if that trial happened now, I think it would be looked at in a in a different kind of way than it was back then. So you're like on their side, right? You is that what I am? You believe you believe because there's there's a lot of back and forth about whether or not they were abused to the degree that they claimed they were and whether or not a this punishment is justified or if it's a just a sentencing and because I came away from watching that I mean I think I watched the real documentary and then I watched your series and I came away just more confused than ever I wasn't convinced that they were as abused as they said

they were and then I was like god if this if these were two girls I wouldn't hesitate to believe them you know and I had to think about why I didn't believe them because I was like well I just but And then I've never been, you know, I've never had that kind of manipulation in my life where somebody was manipulating, like if somebody did treat you that way and you were, you did turn into a grown man who could defend yourself, that you wouldn't because you're so brainwashed and you're so, there's such a power dynamic there. So talk to me a little bit about what you learned about that, because I'm so curious as from an insider's perspective. Yeah, I mean, that was kind of at the crux of the first trial, which was that basically the original trial was a hung jury and it came down basically along gender lines because the men didn't believe that boys could be sexually abused. And culturally, people didn't believe that, which is absurd, you know, and I think that the psychological impact, which is, you know, what Leslie over the course of that trial and the six years that she was working with them was trying to get people to understand the psychology of abuse and of trauma and and, you know, people being like, well, why didn't they just leave? And it's like when you've been not only like horrifically sexually abused, but also essentially brainwashed the culture of control within that house or in an abusive relationship, you don't realize you can or how or when people are constantly threatening your life. You know, and even now, we still don't really have, like, a correct recourse for victims of abuse who have tried to get away, who have tried to divorce, who have tried to have restraining orders.

I'm not in any way condoning killing people by any means, but that's not what I'm here to do. New title for the episode. Ari Grainer espouses retaliation in the form of murder. Yeah. Yeah, it's not something I'm signing up for, but it is a part of the justice system that I think is for women, for children of of when you are in a position in your life is on the line. Does that mean that you should then be in prison for the rest of your life because it was the only way that you could survive? To me, I would say not. But, you know, that's just me.

So what about the fact that was it Lyle that was on who was talking to his girlfriend after the fact and admitted to lying about the sexual abuse? What about that component of information? Well, here's what I feel about that, which is like also they did so much research on the show. So stuff that was in there was correct. I never read the book that she wrote. I was sort of like I'm staying on my my defense track. but psychologically there's something that i can understand about that of like when you have revealed your deepest most unspeakable secret i mean first of all there is nothing

more unspeakable than sexual abuse especially when you've come from a family where you are told your entire life what you must never do is speak of something and then to to share that to reveal that I think there's like an automatic reaction to then want to protect and defend and close up I mean I even feel that way and I'm like therapized up the wazoo but when I have like a very vulnerable moment there still is the reaction afterwards to want to try to like take it back or make a joke or do it you know there's a kind of a natural response to that and so in a way I understand where here's this young man who's just revealed the most painful things and the bravado of being like, I didn't, you know, it wasn't real. I don't remember what he, what was said or what was actually said, but I understand the emotional response to want to close up, take it back, defend after revealing something so unbelievably painful, hard. Yeah, because right after the murders, I think that the biggest thing that was, you know,

they went on these shopping sprees, they spent all this money, they were acting just so... They were dumb kids. I mean, you know, they were also dumb kids. But I also feel like I did so much research about Leslie and I just think she's incredible. And I guess for me, it's like to believe that also they were not abused means essentially that you think she made that story up and from all of my research about her like people had opinions about her she was a real firecracker and not everybody liked her but nobody ever called into question her integrity ever with any of her clients throughout her career about having to make up

stories of their life like she's not a snake she's so brilliant it's like she's too smart to have to make up something like that on their behalf in my personal belief and defense of her. And did you have a lot of interaction with her, with Leslie? No, sadly, I've not talked to her. What are some other, like, surprising things that you learned about her in doing the research? Well, one thing that I think is really fun

is that Joan Didion and John Gregory Dunn, who's Dominic Dunn's brother, were, like, her best friends. And so I feel like when you find out that Joan Didion is her best friend, you're like, well, she's definitely no snooze. That tells you about a person. You know, and she, you know, she went to law school in the late 60s as a single mother and drove a yellow Corvette and she came from Queens and her grandmother was a labor organizer and organizing and fighting against the man. And they were like a family that fought and, you know, and then her, there was like a, her father, basically like complete, her parents were divorced, but then her father completely disappeared from her life. They thought that he had moved to Florida to have another family. And it turned out that he was living like a couple blocks away and she didn't speak to him for 34 years. And then during the trial, during the first trial, she reconnected with her father, adopted a baby, and her mother died, like all during the first trial, which is crazy to think about.

Wow. It's amazing to think about people's lives, certain people's lives, like, you know, the backstory, going to law school in the 60s as a woman, just that alone. Right. I wonder what that was like. And a yellow Corvette. I wonder what kind of car Leslie Stahl was driving at that time. I know. Let's get Leslie Stahl on the phone and find out about her early cars. I feel like, and when you go in, like when you're playing such a character, because you want, I mean, I don't know, I'm not really an actor actor. So when you're playing a character, you don't want to impersonate them, right? You don't want to make a caricature. You want to do your version of them is that correct yes yes i mean i definitely didn't yeah you don't want to

do an impersonation but also like the juiciness of the opportunity of playing a real person being like i want to try to honor and get down this person's essence and also you know the rhythm of how she spoke and where her voice was and how she moves and and all that stuff but yeah i mean And that was like the terror of working on it myself and then showing up. And, you know, because I don't like I don't work with a coach or anything. I do this sort of like unconscious dream work that is its own thing. But like I'd never heard myself do it out loud basically until I showed up on set. I mean, I did I did it in the audition.

but you know auditions you're just kind of starting that process where you've watched like a couple videos and you know I had listened to her audiobook but yeah I was so scared because I was like I don't know am I doing this right I mean I sort of felt that way throughout the whole shoot like we were still shooting episode eight and I remember saying to Ian Brennan who is one of the co-creators of the show and he was also directing and I just remember sort of standing there and being like do you think I'm good and he was like what do you mean the scene was good and I was like yeah yeah yeah but I mean like do you think I'm good as Leslie and he was like what are you talking about like you are Leslie what do you mean and I was like okay

that's fine that's fine how did you not you didn't practice the voice or the accent I mean I mean on your own like I did kind of but it's sort of like I would hear it I mean and I was just watching I was watching everything with her she wrote a book and she also did the audiobook so I would listen to that all the time I would fall asleep to her voice I'd fall asleep to the book and you know like there were days on set when I did it but especially in the very beginning I had one day of shooting and then I had I think three weeks off or a month and you know those are the dark days of the soul when it's the interstitial time where you're like, what have I done? Am I going to be fired? Am I doing this right? And I think because you do like everybody kind of has

their own way of doing it. Like some people are watching everything and trying to get it perfectly. Like there are some videos from the trial that I wanted it to be as close to the thing is possible but then sometimes people play real people but they just are like I'm doing completely doing my own version of it and they're both right you know but it's just like a matter of of if it works within the context of the thing but okay go back to what you were saying you do some dream sequence what what what did you just mention earlier before that yeah so there's this creative dream work I do. And it sort of is about tapping into your unconscious as a way of tapping into your creative source, like this idea that sort of every character comes to you for a reason

and at this time. And it's like, what are you able to explore sort of through this character, this works. So sometimes you use an actual dream and you sort of walk through the dream in your mind. It's very hard to describe, but it's really powerful. And I sort of used the episode five where me and Cooper Cotchey plays Eric Menendez where it's a one shot, one scene conversation with us in prison and sort of used that and walked through that. And a lot of really interesting things came up for me in that about anger about like confronting and owning my own anger because Leslie was somebody who was like very in touch with her anger and would define herself as a as a fighter like a fighting type and I'm less of a fighting type like I have a lot of anger but

it's not you know I think for women it's hard to own anger it's hard to know or for me for me just speaking for myself where it's it's there but i think tapping into that and and owning that and holding that and that was such a big part of i think where she was coming from in episode five of like the anger of what they had gone through and what those parents like that that was not what parenting was and so there was you know it's it's a it's a a deep way of getting in touch with something without it being like, what's my objective in the scene? You know, it's like a deeper. Right. I'm doing a great job. I think I'm doing a very good job describing. Well, I mean, I've never heard about this before, so it's my introduction. So that's OK. I don't have to fully

understand. I just wanted to get a sense of what you were talking about. As soon as you said DreamWorks, I'm like, we're going to need to go back to that for a second. Yeah. OK, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Ari Grainer. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything

every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks

Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it.

It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Ari Grader. We are back. Are you ready to give some advice, Ari? Are you ready to give some legal advice? Because that's what we're going to do.

I mean, legal advice, emotional advice, dating advice. I cannot wait. Medical. You know, we do a lot of that here. I mean, medical too. Yeah. No, I got it. Well, it's so funny how sometimes things will come up earlier in the episode that we then have questions about. So our first question is a write-in. It comes from Wendy. Wendy says, Dear Chelsea, I am a woman in the United States. I feel extremely unsafe with the current administration. I'm a feminist, an activist, and have become much more active since the Dobbs decision.

I even host a podcast about deconstructing patriarchy and living life on your own terms. However, I feel compelled to move out of this soon-to-be shithole. My friend says, like James Baldwin, I will regret leaving to better myself while leaving everyone else behind. I disagree. At what point did people start leaving Germany? I can still do all feminist and activist interests while living overseas. I can fly back and do keynotes, host my podcast, and write my substack and talk on social media.

Do you think I'll regret moving out? Wendy? I would say go for it. I personally, if you are not comfortable with what's happening, go. And if you have the means to go, absolutely. I think a lot of people are having these thoughts. And I think you have to do what's right for your sanity. Yeah, I agree with that.

I agree with that. And I don't know. I mean, it's so hard to know of like all the specifics of what you're leaving, who you're leaving, but it's also... People you still hold those people in your life, you know, and there's there's other life to be had. There's other experiences to be had. There's other places to live. And I think like fine listening to that voice is important. I mean, these are questions I ask myself, too. I don't know. Do you ask yourself those questions? Oh, absolutely. I'm thinking about it all the time. I'm always thinking about it. I just watched Lee last night, that Kate Winslet movie that takes place during World War Two. And like the rise of Hitler, her whole life was happening during the rise of Hitler. And she talks in the movie, like the character, what it happened so slowly, yet it happened so quickly, like they watched it, but it didn't seem real. It seemed like a dream. It seemed surreal. And then it was real. And then you had to exist within that. And it's like, how do you exist when Hitler is trying to take over Europe and he's the most powerful man in Europe? And she talks about living a life under that, like within that, living a life and then choosing. And then she became a war photographer because she had to do her part. She felt so compelled to do her part. And whatever your part is, you can still do that without being in this country. I believe that. I don't think you have to be here to fight. And I totally understand wanting to get out of here.

And I would say, if that's your inclination, go for it. You can, of course, you're not going to, you know, the people in your life are in your life. They're not going anywhere, but you might be. And, you know, if you, if that's your decision, absolutely. I totally get it. I think you should go, Wendy. Yeah, I agree.

I find myself wanting to sort of like bury my head in the sand a little bit. And like, this is not what Wendy's doing. She's like, I'm going to keep up the good fight. But if you need to remove yourself from the physical location in order to like keep your stamina to keep doing that it's probably the right choice well and fighting can look like a lot of different ways or resistance can look like a lot of different ways like it's it doesn't just have to be what we think of of like fighting in a traditional sense like that can also be stepping outside of the norm or what you think you're supposed to do and showing a resistance about

what feels right to you yeah go wendy go maybe i'll be following you yeah and when do you send us the name of your podcast we'll put it in the show notes so people can check it out our first color is brie brie says dear chelsea i'm 35 and i've been in a series of monogamous relationships since i was 18 i left a 10-year relationship with a great man who i still adore as a friend then fucked around and found myself in a relationship with a raging alcoholic then somehow ended up in a relationship with a man child put myself through the ringer and have been in therapy for two and a half years to find out a lot about myself as well as what i want in a partner. A year and a half ago, I told my therapist about all the qualities I wanted in a

man and boom, I met him that night and can now finally say I'm in a loving and healthy relationship with someone I truly see a future with. He's a little older than me and has been ready to move in together for a couple months. But here's the thing. I love living alone. And I'm having a very hard time thinking about leaving my apartment and living with someone else again. Help a sister out. How Do I Handle This? Bree. Hi, Bree. Hi, Bree. Hello. Bree, I totally, I feel you. This is our special guest today, Ari Grainer. Hi. Hi. I feel you. And is there any way you can keep your apartment while you move in with him? I mean, I could, but it's so expensive where I live. And like, that would be the dream is to keep my apartment for sure. But I don't know how

I would work that financially. It's the only thing. Are you guys in the same city? So we're like 45 minutes apart, which I love because it's like safe and we both live by the ocean. So it's perfect. But it's just like, yeah, so we're 45 minutes apart, but the commute doesn't really bug us or anything. I honestly, I'm going to just say that I would stay where you are. Big surprise here. I know. But I would just say any distance you can have with you, someone you love you met this great guy he's it sounds perfect for you and it sounds like you manifested it like very quickly I and if you're really into and you dig your alone time I really would be hesitant to give that up I had to say my my partner now that I've been with for four and a half years I live

in upstate New York and he lives in Seattle half the time because he has a 16 year old and I don't know after like a lot of relationships of like serial monogamy living with people blah blah sometimes I think it's harder to be with somebody all of the time than it is to be away from each other sometimes and I don't know I think it can look a lot of different ways where you can have like a beautiful full intimate committed relationship and not have to live together all of the time. Yeah, totally. I fully agree with you. Yeah. 45 minutes away is nothing like that is nothing. I mean, I've been in so many long distance relationships and they work great because there's not an overdose of the person in my life. You know, I want to miss someone. You

know, that's what makes me keep coming back. So and you seem like that same type if you're saying that. Yeah. A hundred percent. But you're saying it's too hard. The financials of holding onto this relationship, this apartment now that's too hard. No, I can keep, we can keep our living situation as is. And that's the thing. I never want to live with someone just because it's financially smart. Like that's not, I've done that and it's doesn't, it's not the right way to approach things, but yeah, I can keep my spot now for as long as I want and he can keep his spot it's more just the he wants to live together and I'm like I'm not ready can you can do you have the kind of work life where you can go stay with him for you know like a week on a week off kind

of thing yeah totally totally I work from home so it's easy and my therapist she had mentioned doing like a trial run. But even that, I'm like, I know I'm going to want to go home. Like, I know I'm going to want my space. Have you talked to him about it? Like about your hesitancy? Yeah, he knows everything. He actually knows I was asking you guys for advice too. And he was like, good, get her advice. And I was like, she's not, she does not agree with what you want. But I just think you have to, as women, we really have to listen to ourselves. And sometimes we get swept away in an emotion and a feeling. And we make a decision based on what someone else wants for our relationship. And of course, he wants to live with you. Of course, he wants to see you

every morning when you wake up. But if that's not the type of person you are, and I think this is more and more true for women everywhere, you're going to end up resenting that. You're going to end up feeling crowded and you may sabotage the relationship. Not definitely, but possibly. So why even risk it if you have a good thing going? 45 minutes is nothing. And it's so chic to live apart. And it's like both places can feel like a version of home. And like having alone time is so important. Like I feel like that has been like the key pillar of my life and healthy relationships has been like how much time I need alone and reckoning with that.

Because for so long it felt like there was something wrong with me for requiring the amount of alone time I needed. And it, like, has nothing to do with the relationship or bearing on anything except that, like, it's important. Autonomy alone is good and your relationship can flourish within that. And then you can just spit it. Be like, this is how committed I am to you. I'm going to keep my apartment because I believe we're going to go, like, for the long haul. And I want us to be successful. And I think that's going to be part of our success.

yeah okay I love the idea that Ari had of like even if it's a few days on and a few days off or a week on and a week off like do it part-time but it doesn't have to be like let's try it for six months right yeah yeah especially 45 minutes away you know and it's like a week yeah like going there for a week then have a couple days then he can come there if he can like I don't know I've found that that's worked very well for me and now this feels like our home together but also what I can do how I feel or like what I can do for myself when I'm alone and in my you know my week off while he's back it's like I need that time yeah yeah same it's like a recharge for sure and like a reset and recenter and the whole thing for sure I completely agree so I guess my question

is those like what if it becomes the deal breaker and then I have to choose between the two do you think it will become a deal breaker I think so in the future yeah how long have you guys been together we're coming up on two years well also I feel like in two years who knows how you'll feel or how he feels you know like in this moment especially if maybe it's you commit to different chunks of time together so it's thinking about doing like a week together and then three days apart and that like maybe there's a way to structure some of that time so you both know how you are committed to spending big chunks of time together while also having that time apart and then you know your feelings might change in a few years or commit to doing a month together

and then teach yourselves both a lesson because i'm sure by the end of it you both want fucking three days off like you know what i mean for real you can be like sure let's try i'll come live with you for one month straight and then let's discuss it let's regroup and see how we both liked that yeah you know like experimentally but i would definitely trust your gut okay and if he does make it a deal breaker call in and do a mini-sode for couples counseling yeah and we'll do couples counseling love that idea okay fun perfect all right thanks brie okay bye bye thank you by the way do you watch couples therapy i love it i love it i love watching therapy it's the best Me, too. Orna is such a good therapist.

Yeah, she really is good. I was just watching her the other night. She is. Whenever we see her personal life, I'm like, no, no, I don't want to see anything about her personal life. Like, she's such a good therapist. I just want to keep her in that little bubble. You know what I mean? Totally. I'm like, I don't want to know that you have a son. I'm not interested. She has a son? I think so. I think she has a son.

Spoilers. Yeah. Don't tell me. Well, our next question comes from Catherine. I think she needs a little bit of like a confidence boost here. So she says, Dear Chelsea, I went through a bit of a hard time a few years ago, and just this year started dating again. It's been a roller coaster for sure. I've had some people I've been interested in, dated, slept with, but nothing's panned out. My workplace shares a building with another company. I've had negative experiences in the past dating co-workers

and have a strict no-co-workers policy for myself. When I first started the job, I noticed a good-looking guy at the other company, but never had reason to interact. He introduced himself to me when there was a random fire in the building, and then a couple months later, a weird accident led to him talking to me again.

We've chatted a few times since. Recently, he's intentionally brought himself into my orbit, and I'm pretty sure he's also interested. My issue is that even though we don't work together, we share an open workspace. Second issue, a different colleague of mine has proven to be a bit of a gross person when it comes to at-work relations. Because my work crush and this colleague associate, I can't help but worry that my crush shares the same kind of

locker room talk as this colleague. I pride myself on my reputation at work, so everything in me is screaming not to pursue it, but I don't want to write off my first real crush in four years. Should I give him a chance despite my colleague's bro talk? Yes, yes, yes. And this is also Catherine. so Catherine what are you doing what is all of this nonsense this is all noise go after it get after it this is my life is the noisiest thing I now will turn the fucking volume down and get down to the basics you are attracted to someone who is attracted to you just because he is so I have a newsflash for you like you guys you're gonna date are gonna have asshole friends period

I don't even know if they're friends I don't even I've been talking Exactly You don't even know if they're friends You don't even know All of this is like supposition You're not even sure what's happening

And you're making like 80 different blocks For you to get to this person That may or may not even be true You can also tell him I mean you can also like This is what I love about getting Like dating when you're older Is like you can also say the things

Early on Where I feel like when you're young you're so afraid of saying a wrong thing that is like going to make somebody run. And then I feel like when you get older, you're like, let me just say all the things. So like, and then you can decide what you want to do and I'll decide what I want to do. And you can also be like, I'm worried about this, you know, or like, here's a concern of mine and just talking it through and who knows what he'll say about it. And moreover, what makes you think that they are our friends? I kind of am not wired for workplace flirtations anymore.

No shit. I've definitely bumbled through those a little bit I and anytime I was like okay you know I can work it in there he's just like so deadpan like about what's going on in our company and then I'm just like okay well now's not the time for this kind of thing and then um just just the way that he speaks about my colleagues is kind of what's hinting that there's really maybe not the best interaction there it's kind of just a we work in the same environment I'm going to keep the peace kind of thing. But I also have to be very careful what I say about that, because again, I don't know him very well. So maybe he's going to say what I've been saying back to these

people. Oh my God. Oh my God. We have to give you a, you have to put your head in a shampoo bowl and wash all of this garbage out. You are just running around in circles in your head. You like this guy, he likes you forget everything else. You do not even work together. First of all, I'm not against that either. Workplace romance. It's like, where are adults supposed to meet? work together. That's where happy people meet. So that's silly. That's a silly rule. And like all these rules you have are just kind of like, you have to work very hard at stripping away all of this noise. And that's going to be a practice for you, but you can do it. I think you should just go ask him out because he's made it clear. You don't want to like let it go too long. And

then he's like feeling like send him an email, send him an email and go just listen. It seems to like to me that you're being very flirtatious. If you want to ask me on a date, let me know and I can respond. Very straightforward. I'll work on that. Yeah. Or just be like, do you want to get a drink after work or something? I finished work at 11. He's done at 5 30 PM. Okay. Well, would you be comfortable writing an email like that? I mean, I know you wouldn't be, but would you do it? I'm definitely better like writing than I am. Initially I'm better at interacting with people with words using like email. And then I can once, cause he hasn't really had a chance to see my personality yet. Cause I've been so like, I have this professional

face I have to put on. So I haven't really been able to show my funny side or like the actual me side, which is. And all the voices in your head. You haven't been able to show him that either. I know. They're just there, you know, they never take a vacation. Well, I think you should send him an email and just put it out there, put it out there. You're going to get the response that you want, and then you can start dealing with all of these other issues that you're creating or let them fall away as you start to get to know him. And then you can get to know if he's like that or if he's like your friend. I'm still confused as to why you think that. I don't think you really answered that question. Like, why do you think this guy that

you have a crush on is friends with your work colleague? Because they all they've all mentioned him before in some context. They're having these interactions that aren't work related. So I just I kind of just have to assume that maybe there's a friendly interaction outside of the workplace as well. A lot of assumptions. A lot of assumptions. I think it's like, go see each other outside. See what the...

Because also, you might not even... Like him. You might not even like him. Yeah. You know, or he might be the love of your life. You don't know. But you got to get out of that office to know. Yeah.

Listen, you have one life to live. One, okay? So make it fucking count and work in your best interest. no one is going to find love for you. You have to find it for you. Well, they're trying. They're trying. They're failing, but they're trying. Who's they? My friends. They're invested in my love life. That's great. I'm glad they're invested, but you can't rely on other people to find you have the person here. So just don't you need to go and send that email. And I need you to report back to us also. Of course. Let us know what happens. Okay. I will. Absolutely. Thank you. Also, congrats on

having a crush a crush is so fun i know crushes are the best at the beginning not now yeah well you can extend but you can extend the crush i mean the flirtation can keep going and going and going until you go out and even then it's just so fun you know flirting back and forth especially over email that's my favorite yeah i just wish it wasn't in a public space that people yeah well you wish a lot of things i know i do yeah okay all right keep us posted i will thank you very much Bye. Bye. Watch, they're going to get married and have lots of babies.

Of course they are. I really want to find out what happens. We will definitely check back in with her in a couple weeks and see what happens. What was her name? Catherine. She's a Catherine Elizabeth, just like me. Oh. And spelled all the right ways.

Well, we have one more question, but we could take our little break and then come back. It's a juicy one. Okay. We'll be right back with Ari Greener. Find your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island

to deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite BookTok creators to the latest pop culture moments,

nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the pages hey this is ace davenport and sean clements we

host the podcast hollywood handbook on the big money players network our show is extremely accessible to first-time listeners each week we talk to someone in show business aka the biz and Try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us. Everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show. We've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman. Not that great. Actually, can you help me shape this? How about we flip it on its head?

How about we flip the script? What if the surprise woman who actually you think is the straight man is actually the one who's acting weird? Adam Scott. this entire time you've been expecting adam sandler to come to visit the show i i would never let go of that i have i would never set expectations for something like that seems like if the universe allows for something like that to happen i'm open to it i'm always going to accept you know danny mcbride fine yeah it's all this fragile masculinity exuding i could smell it walking down the hallway to be honest with you i was like is that weed nope it's fragile masculinity

ben stiller no because a lot of times in out of context people don't get it or even know what a circle is you know what i mean like they're like oh what's this everyone's so dumb and fake right fake and and also not interested or just like oh i've got my life i don't care about your life and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us oh and by the way Will Ferrell told us personally he loves the show and he wants to be a guest on every episode, but he's just so busy. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We have one more question.

We have one more caller question. This is so fun. Isn't it? I love it. It's a dream. Especially when it's real. It's like sometimes we get some questions and I'm like, what the fuck are they asking me that for? Like, you know, but some questions.

I love interpersonal affairs. I love like breaking up or getting the crush. That was one of my favorite topics. Like that woman calling in. I love that shit. What to do about a crush. More crush questions. Yes.

My favorite. Well, this question comes from Sarah. Dear Chelsea, about a year ago, my husband and I went away for a few nights. My mother-in-law stayed at our house to watch our small children sleeping in our bed to stay close to the baby. When I returned, I noticed that my journal, which I keep in my nightstand, had obviously been tampered with. The strap was in a different place than usual. My worksheets from therapy were not where I left them, et cetera.

I was totally shaken. My husband handled it and addressed it with my mother-in-law. She denied reading it and said she didn't touch it. I had postpartum depression with my second child, as well as a recent rocky patch with my husband where I relied heavily on my journal to process. It makes me sick to my stomach to think of my mother-in-law reading my most intimate thoughts. I used to enjoy looking back on previous years and memories I've written about. Every year, I write a letter to my children on their birthday.

I never knew if I was going to give these to them, but it was my most intimate thoughts about motherhood and reflecting on each year with them. These letters were for me alone and possibly one day my children. It makes me very upset thinking she read something that was supposed to be between me and my daughters. I've come to terms with her denial, and I don't believe I will ever fully know the truth. How do I continue to use journaling as part of my toolbox in staying regulated and well? I wrote in this journal every day for four years, and since that event, I haven't been able to pick it up again. I really loved this part of my day, and it helped my mental health in a big way.

It doesn't feel like a safe place anymore. Looking back on past years now makes me angry thinking of her reading those thoughts. I tried to buy a brand new journal and start fresh, but I still have a mental block and can't move forward. Is there any way I can get past this and start using this coping skill that helped me through some dark times? Sarah. Yeah, absolutely. First of all, you have to start journaling again. This is not your issue. This is your mother-in-law's issue. She opened your book. You cannot control her. She opened your journal. She invaded your privacy. So it is up to you to take your power back. I can guarantee you she's not going to do it again.

after she's been called out but you have to get a new journal and just start practicing this is something that is giving you such relief and such comfort that you can go to this place and write in your journal each night and write this beautiful letter to your daughters each year on their birthdays that is such a beautiful thing to even hear like you've got to keep going and do not let someone else's misstep create your own misstep you know you keep going and and do whatever you need to do and if it doesn't feel right the first couple times keep doing it just keep writing into your journal until you get back to your safe space what do you think Ari yeah I mean there there's nothing more like that that kind of writing has also been transformative for me and

you you can't give that away to her that's it's it's you can't give that power to her or to that that's it's a that is something to reclaim for yourself absolutely it's a beautiful beautiful practice I totally get what a horrible invasion that is and how hard that is but I feel like it's it's like when you'll fall off a horse like when somebody falls off a horse and they're like I just have to get back up there so that I'm not afraid to ever do it again it's like even if the writing in the beginning is like I hate this this feels wrong I don't want to do this like just writing the honesty through it to get to the other side because that's for you you got to keep that yeah girl don't let your mother-in-law take you down and I wonder too if there's like a

way to upend it and like create a different ritual around it like doing it at a different time of day than you used to doing it in a different place. Like maybe you used to write in bed, go to a cozy chair, like really changing your ritual around it. Maybe it's like saging your journal, like do something that creates a different energy around it. And then yes, like start with where you're at. Like, I'm angry that this happened. I'm upset that this happened. But you just also, you have to realize you're holding onto these emotions that are not your fault. These are her, these are her issues, not your issues. She was being nosy. She had no boundaries. That doesn't change who you are you're choosing to allow her to disrupt this connection you had with yourself

and that's on you you have to choose to move forward and you have to choose to be like I'm bigger than this and I'm gonna get past this and yes I understand you're upset but don't let her take your power away I also wonder if there's a way of like writing a letter to her that you have no intention of ever giving but just of a reprocessing of saying all the things out loud about you know out loud via writing about how that made you feel like that just to get that out just to keep working through that too to sort of anything that's left over in the mind of like you made me never want to do this again I my trust is gone you know whatever that is that you'll never ever give to her but just as a way of also getting that part of your feeling

out of your brain and then put that letter in your journal and she'll read it thank you ari grainer thank you so much for being here today what a delight thank you so much for having me this was like such a joy i love you and i'm like just so happy i got to be here yeah i Hope I see you soon. Me too. Okay, take care. Me too. Back at Jenny and Jason's.

Okay, bye, you guys. Bye-bye. Thanks. Drum roll, Catherine, please. Chelsea Handler Abroad Abroad is my European tour, which I just announced yesterday. Tickets go on sale tomorrow or today, or there's a pre-sale code, Chelsea.

So I'm coming to obviously find a husband abroad. I need to get the hell out of this fucking country. And it's not as easy as you think. So I'm coming to Reykjavik. I'm coming to Dublin. I'm coming to the UK. I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May and June. I'm coming to Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow, New Zurich, Vienna. I've never, ever been to Vienna, Berlin, Barcelona, Lisbon. I'm coming. Abroad is abroad. That sounds like fun.

I'm going to go see you abroad. I know. I want to go see me abroad. And there I'll be. There I'll be. Excellent. Okay, all upcoming Vegas dates. March 21st, April 18th, July 5th, August 30th, November 1st, and 29th at the Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas.

My book tour, I'll have what she's having, means I am doing book events only. Book events, Northvale, New Jersey on February 24th, February 25th at the 92nd Street Y, February 26th, Brookline Booksmith, February 27th, Cincinnati, Ohio, February 28th at the H Foundation in Chicago, and Barnes & Noble at the Grove in Los Angeles on March 1st. And then Seattle, Washington on March 3rd, Elliott Bay. And I'll see you guys all there. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseapodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to include your phone number.

Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. stalked controlled and nearly silenced these are stories about what it takes to make it out alive listen to the survivor files with elizabeth smart on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level

of Discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space.

You're hired to fill the space with you. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill.

This is Our Town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. Thank you.