Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Whole-Relationship Red Flags with Julianna Margulies

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

Chelsea is joined by Julianna Margulies in NYC to chat about growing up with chaotic parents, learning to prioritize your own needs, and taking a left instead of a right.  Then: An Irish bartender must return to less-gratifying work after a stint helping vulnerable people.  A sister has been cut off after her baby sis moves in with yet another bad boyfriend.  And an Aussie mountaineer makes long-term plans with a boyfriend who just won’t commit. * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Nick Stumpf Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time.

bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. oh hello everybody hi hi Catherine hi how are you Chelsea I'm we're gonna get started right away today with my upcoming stand-up dates I'm coming to Hawaii on July 1st to Oahu July 3rd to

Maui and I'll be at the just for last comedy festival in Montreal July 28th hosting a gala a gala also pronounced as gala I am in Vancouver August 12th two shows in Vancouver I'm in Calgary Saturday, August 13th, and Sunday, August 14th. That's Calgary. And then I have tons of dates coming up in the fall, starting with Saratoga, California, Niagara Falls, Long Beach, California, Bakersfield, California, Paso Robles, California, Wheatland, California, and lots of places in Florida, Tampa, Fort Myers, Daytona Beach, Hollywood, Florida, and the list goes on and on. And oh, and San Diego and Riverside, California. So lots of dates in California and Tucson, Colorado Springs.

Anyway, go to ChelseaHandler.com for your tickets. I will see you guys all there. These will be the final dates of my vaccinated and horny tour. And I can't wait to see all of you in person now that everybody, well, most people are vaccinated and officially horny. That's with three E's at the end, Catherine, just in case you didn't know how to spell horny. Perfect.

Anyway, I am getting ready to go to Hawaii with our 18 nieces and nephews. Oh, my goodness. I think it's 18, but the number keeps increasing every day. I don't know if people are giving birth each day in Joe's family or what, but we have already exceeded the maximum capacity in the house that we've rented. I have seven of my nieces and nephews coming, and then Joe has, like, 12, and then some other miscellaneous people. Well, not miscellaneous people, friends, but, like, additions.

So we are about to embark on a two-week vacation with adult children. Wow. That's kind of the dream, though. Like, when I moved to California, I'm like, it is. I'm like, I just want to be the fun aunt who, like, lives in California and they get to come visit and summer with me. That's all I want. That's all I've ever wanted. I know.

I know. You know, I was very passionate about that when I was starting to come up and becoming successful. All I wanted to do was, like, shower attention and spoil them. And now I don't have that same passion There's 17 of them I love to be around them But Joe is Joe has that passion

So he'll bring it out in me Which is interesting because he has a kid So you'd think that most of that energy Would go toward just his own kid Oh no no he spreads the love That's what I love about him He's not even just about his own kid He loves watching all the kids together

All the cousins together So now we're joining our families Hopefully, we'll see if there are any hookups. Joe's like, you're dirty. He's like, what are you saying? I'm like, well, it's possible. I mean, it worked out with you two. The girls in my family are on my side.

All have boyfriends. So there probably won't be a hookup. But you never know. There's chemistry. Yeah, anything can happen in Hawaii. It's a romantic setting. My dad once went to Hawaii on like a business trip without my mom. And he was like, I will never go back as a one person by myself.

Yeah. He was like, it was terrible. He wasn't even heartbroken. And he was like, this is for couples. It's only for couples. Yeah, exactly. It is for couples. Our guest today has a book out, just came out in paperback.

It's called Sunshine Girl, An Unexpected Life. You know her from her work on ER, The Good Wife, and now The Morning Show on Apple TV+. She is an Emmy, Golden Globe, and SAG Award winner. Please welcome Juliana Margulies. Hi, Juliana. Hi, Chelsea. I'm so happy to see you in person. Me too.

So happy. The last time we saw each other was at The Beacon, at my show at The Beacon. Yeah, you came to the show. Thank you for coming. Loved it. I have always, always loved you. I've always loved you, admired your work. We've met over the years at different social events, different boyfriends' houses.

I say boyfriends concerning me because you've been married for quite some time now to your lover. Yeah, 14 and a half years. Oh, that's not that. Actually, I would have thought you were married longer than that. We've been together 16 years. 16 years. 16 and a half. But I love your love story, which you talk about in your book, Sunshine Girl, which if you haven't read that book already, congratulations on the success of your book.

Thank you so much. I know it's been on the New York Times bestseller for how many weeks? I don't know. Yeah. You're not the type of person who would pay attention to that. I don't. And I can vouch for her when she says that. She means it.

I was just happy you guys sent a car for me today. I thought I was going to be on the subway. You have a very like a thrifty mentality, regardless of how much success you've had over the years with all of your shows, with ER, with The Good Wife, with everything in between, you still act like you are scraping pennies together. It is bizarre. I mean, literally just before I got here, I sent my, I hate saying assistant, but I sent my assistant on vacation because he needed it.

He really needed a vacation. My husband's in London, my kid's in school and my housekeeper, after reading your book, I was laughing at myself because I have a housekeeper who comes twice a week. And Tuesday she comes and I thought, how am I going to walk the dog before I get in the car to come to see Chelsea? And then I literally went, I went up to her. She's been my housekeeper for 20 years. And I said, Sam, any chance you want to make some extra cash today? And I handed her money to go and walk my dog. But I hadn't even thought of that until I was like putting on makeup going, I'm not going to be able to walk the dog. First of all, my housekeeper takes my

dog every time I leave, which is, I haven't been home in three weeks. We never even discussed it. She takes both dogs, and she has full, full, she has, she is their mother, and she has full control over their schedules. And sometimes when I come back into town, if I, because I've been on tour for the better part of a year, if I come back on a Saturday, I have maybe a couple days to spend with my babies. She won't even bring them back for me on the Saturday. She'll bring them back on Monday when she comes back. When she comes back to work is when she brings the dogs back. Whatever suits her. Yeah, whatever suits her.

And we have a power dynamic that is in her favor. So I have no say in this situation. But it's so good. Yeah, it is good. I mean, it should be a television show. I know. Well, actually, that's funny you mention that. We're making it into a television show.

Oh, it should be. We're making my last book into a show for Peacock, Life Will Be the Death of Me. And a big part of the story is my cleaning lady and my dog's relationship. Because she's been my cleaning lady for 15 years. And she calls me Baby Pig. That's her nickname for me. And so a lot of my friends also call me baby pig. Why baby pig?

It's a long story. It involves chocolate nut clusters, but we can get into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can get into that at another time. I want to talk a bit about your book because we have some commonalities that I think are going to surprise you. One is our love for Carly Simon. Oh, my God.

I also love Carly Simon. And you were on Martha's Vineyard. Yeah, I grew up with her son and Ben and Sally, her son and daughter. I used to hang out with Sally. and there was a bunch of girls I hung out with at Martha's Vineyard and we would go over to Carly Simon's house and I had never met I was probably like 11, 12 years old

I had never met a celebrity and I remember Carly Simon came out and then James Taylor was always around. Had you listened to her music before you met her? Oh yeah, my whole family because of the vineyard, like Carly Simon is gospel up there, you know, I mean she should be gospel everywhere but primarily because she lives on the vineyard

and so our whole family is down with Carly Simon and I remember going over to her house and I was hanging out with all my girlfriends and they order pizza and Carly Simon came out to the pool and she was picking up the pizza. And I just was like, oh my God, no, she can't carry pizza boxes. And I got up and was like grabbing them out of her hands, like an idiot, you know, like a sycophant. And I was just a little girl. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'll carry those for you. And I remember being so, so nervous. And then I remember the next time I went over there, I was like, you got to get to get it together. Like she's,

this is embarrassing. Meanwhile, I was a little girl. Yeah, she probably was charmed by it, though. Yeah, doubtful. I wasn't that charming. But that we have in common, our love for Carly Simon. And then another thing we have in common is being prompt and early for everything because nobody ever picks you up from school. I mean, I got here eight minutes early. I got here 14 minutes early. I have to be early. Even if I try to be late, I get somewhere and then I have to sit in the car and wait so I don't look like a dick for getting there so early. It's the story of my life. That's why I married my husband. He was early to our first date and I was early and embarrassed. And I walked in and he was already at the bar, half a drink in.

I was like, I'm going to marry you. Well, I'm glad that you even went to that dinner party because you weren't going to go to that dinner party. I wasn't going to go. And then you recalled a piece of advice that your father had given you, which is, you know, you never, or was it your grandfather? My grandfather's father. Yeah. The book was originally called A Left Instead of a write, you never know. But I don't know, Random House didn't think it was a good title. Publishers never like the titles that we come up with. I know. Yeah. I mean, I've come up with every title for my book and my current book that I'm working on.

I want it to be called The Filipino in Me as a double entendre. It's so good. I know, because it means two things. It means the one thing, and then it means all the things that he brings out in me, right? And they were like, well, I feel like they're going to tell me that it's going to exclude a certain part of the population. Just because it's Filipino, it means it's only geared towards Filipino people. You've written six New York Times bestseller books, Chelsea. I think you can call it whatever the fuck you want to call it. Thank you, Juliana. That's to my editors. Okay, guys, I hope you're listening. But back to your book. You take us

through, I was just saying this off air, but I want to say it on air. You take us through a story. Your book is so well done because there's a beginning and a middle and an end, which I appreciate as an avid reader of memoirs. And you answer all the questions that you raise throughout the book. Like I was like, well, what's going to happen with Alec? And then what's going to happen with this? And there better be closure on the relationship. And you better actually call your father out. And you wrap everything up. And you know, you answer all the questions the reader has going through the book with you. But I think what surprised me most about your book is how tough you are

and how much shit you had to endure as a little girl and just tough it out without crying. Because our dispositions are different. I was a spoiled brat. And if I didn't get what I wanted, if my parents pulled any nonsense that I wasn't down with, like, they never heard the end of it. So reading about you always wanting your father's approval

and adoration and not being able to stand up for yourself and just kind of be dragged around the world by your mother who, you know, whose priorities were all over the shop, which, you know, you bring up a great point, which every one of us realizes when we get older is that our parents are people too. They're not just our parents. They're human. Yeah. And they make mistakes. Yeah. And God, I hope my kid knows that when he gets older, because I'm sure I'm making a million mistakes. But that being said, my mother made a few colossal mistakes. So how does that, when you have that disposition growing up, you want to be sunshine girl, you want to be the smiley girl, you don't want to upset your visits with your father, because sometimes they had been far, few and far between,

right? And you lived all over the place. You lived in England, you lived in Paris, that was later, but your mom kind of dragged you back and forth to England a couple of times. Yeah, Paris, England, New York, England, New Hampshire, England. Right. Mostly England. Mostly England, and sometimes not under the most ideal circumstances. Correct. And so how does one person going through all of that, when do you learn to stand up for yourself?

You know, what was weird is once I got out of middle school and was in high school, I seemed to stand up for myself in class and with friends more than I could at home, More than I could with my dad, for sure, because I only wanted him to love me because we had so little time together. I didn't want it. I never wanted him to disapprove. And I stood up to my mother by the time I became a teenager all the time. But with men, what I started to find out with all these relationships, I had these long term five years, five years and then 10 years. I just would shut up. And I realized I was just, by the time I was 35, I was in those relationships because it's what I knew.

It's how I knew how to be around difficult people. Like your mom? Like my mom. So you were mimicking your relationship with men. Like a lot of people don't talk about that. People say, oh, it's your father, your relationship with your father. If that's fractured, then you have your daddy issues or however you want to frame that. And that's a replication of your relationship with your father.

But it is true that we replicate the most difficult relationships. Yeah, and I think also I was looking for a permanent relationship when I was 15. And so I was with a guy, a wonderful guy, actually, and we still text each other to this day. He was the mechanic who could build any house. And the truth is he was five years older than me, which is a big difference when you're 15 and someone's 20. Well, it's also illegal. I have one of those. I won't say his last name.

Yeah, don't. Because that's happened to me, too. I was writing about it in one book. My editor's like, you know, this is illegal. You're going to get him in trouble. And I'm like, well, no, there's a statute of limitations. So don't worry. Your friend isn't going to get in trouble. And I would like to make the argument that at 15, I was fucking 45. So I see where you're coming from. For me, it was like he called all the shots because he was the adult. He had the car. He had the, you know, he was out of school. He was picking me up on his motorcycle. You know, there was something about him for me that was like, oh, I found home. Yeah, of course. And so I didn't really have a voice.

I didn't say I don't like this. I don't like that until I got to college. And then I was like, you know what? I think we're done because I wanted to explore. And then, of course, I ended up with a man who's gay. Gay. For how many years? Five.

Five years. Another five years. Another five. I'm a loyalist, for sure. I stay very loyal. But I stayed in them because I didn't want to upset anybody, right? I didn't want to hurt anybody. I didn't want to be the bad guy.

I used to have these visions of the 10-year relationship, which was really the difficult relationship. The other two I'm really good friends with. But the 10-year relationship, I used to have these fantasies that I'd come home from work, and I'd find a woman in my—well, he was living in my house. I'd find a woman in my bed with him and then I could leave because I'd have a reason and it wouldn't be my fault. That was the scenario I played every time I drove into the driveway. That's amazing to me. It's horrible. It's just amazing to me. And I won't pretend that I didn't Google who that person was that

you were talking about because I did. I had to find out who you were talking about. But don't you think I tactfully? Yes. And the reason I don't name him is because this book isn't about, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus i want to talk about my as a woman my reaction to this it was my fault you know i have to take responsibility and it wasn't until i realized when i was in therapy twice a week for a year after i left that relationship that was really my mom he was my mom because that was always eggshells not knowing what mood what country what boyfriend what whatever she was

throwing at me i obviously was comfortable with with the uncomfortableness but i mean i beat myself up for a good year going, who are you? Why did you allow that? You weren't happy. And that's a lot of what the book is about is like finding your own narrative. You don't have to hold on to your childhood. But we do. We do. And I think, you know, mentioning therapy after you get out of a difficult relationship is so relatable to so many listeners because it's only after I was in a very troubling relationship. Probably one of the last times I met you was at his house upstate New York. And that was a completely unhealthy relationship where I was not I had no agency. I had no for me, you know, I could tell the person that I espouse and the person

that people think that I am or perceive me to be like everything just flew out the window with the chemistry between us. It was just so often again, I can't blame him. I participated in that. But when you come out of that kind of relationship, you it is your responsibility to do the work to figure out why you stayed in that relationship. And then I do believe that's what draws the right person to you. Absolutely. Because you get healthy and then you bring a healthy towards you. And I think it's for me, especially for me, because I had overlapped boyfriends since I was 15 to 35. For me, it was finally being happy being alone. Yeah. Right. Which you talk about in the book. And I talk about that. Like my favorite Valentine's Day, I hate Valentine's Day. It's

such a home run card. It's just stupid. It's like, I can't believe these people make money off of idiocy like that drives my husband's like we'll celebrate the day we met because that to me is valentine's day i'm like great but that i was working on the last season of the sopranos and um and it was valentine's day and i got off work early and i just moved into this great loft in soho and by myself a three-bedroom loft and so like for me i was like oh my god i'm living my best life you can't even believe you have a house today i can't i'm sorry i can't and i went to my favorite bookstore, McNally's on Prince Street. And I bought three books that I'd really wanted to read. And I made myself a bubble bath, poured a glass of wine, put on the music I wanted to

listen to and spent Valentine's Day night in the tub with a glass of wine and my book. And I was in heaven. And three days later, I met my husband. Yeah. It's like you find peace within yourself and then you are able to recognize, also to see, right? To recognize what is the best thing for you rather than to perpetuate old habits. Well, and what makes me happy, not what makes them happy. And so when I met Keith, it was, this is who I am. Take it or leave it. And I had this in the book and I, ah, it got edited out. I did have a great editor and there's no fat on the book. There's a whole other book on the floor, but there was this great moment. Keith and I had had a really fun night out. We were a little, a lot hungover. And I had this white runner in the

hallway from my bedroom to the kitchen. And we woke up, we were probably four weeks, five weeks into the relationship. And it was Sunday morning, you know, nothing better than like making coffee and getting on the couch with the paper, whatever. I was, it was heaven for me. And we're walking down and he's behind me and we're walking down the hallway and I see this huge ball of fluff on the carpet and I bent down to pick it up because that is who I am and he went seriously can we have coffee first before you start cleaning he was saying it sweetly not judgmentally and I hovered over that piece of fluff and I picked it up and I turned around and I said this is who I am no matter how hungover I am I will always clean up and he went great my

apartment's down the street you want to I have tons of fluff balls feel free but it was one of those, for me, a defining moment that I had found myself and a relationship? That was in the galley because I read that. That's what you sent me originally. And I've read that scene and that's not in the book that I'd reread this weekend. So that was in the galley. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting that you cut that out, cutting out fat. It's so hard to edit, you know, sometimes when you're trying to tell your whole story, I can relate to that for sure. But I think what you mentioned is so important for our listeners to hear too, that alone time where you really discover who you are and what makes you happy and what is contributing to your self-worth and self-esteem

rather than what is kind of taking away from it. It's all of our responsibilities to kind of fill ourselves up and make ourselves whole. It's nobody else's responsibility. You can't blame anyone else for your self-doubt or your insecurity. People can trigger us because we have all of our histories. But then you have the power not to be around them. Or you have the power to react in a different way. That doesn't feel good. Yeah, exactly. And that is the beauty of getting older. I have to say, I know there's a lot of things that suck about getting older. What do you think sucks the worst about getting older? My eyes. I can't see anything. Look at this. I know. I can't even read this right now. These are called bunny eyes. I told the woman to

send me a bunch and they go like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she goes one like this. Yeah. I'm like, then you can hold them up like space. But she brought me a bag of them at my last show in Long Island. And I guess my prescription just keeps decreasing or increasing, whatever. So now I can't even use these. I'm like, fuck. And then makeup, putting on makeup. If I don't have a magnifying mirror, I'm screwed. Because if I shut one eye, I can't see that eye. So if you check into a hotel and they don't have a magnifying mirror and you have a thing, because I usually do my own makeup. Of course, of course you do your own makeup. She styles herself she does her own grocery shopping cooking she's her own chambermaid I am is that still a

word chambermaid it is in my house and it's me but yeah I think I would say the the eyes is one and also just like I'm just I'm nine years older than you I just had a birthday and I'm I think I'm nine years I just turned 56 but I just started noticing like my skin feels like it's getting looser, like just a little bit. But I'll tell you the myth about menopause because you talk about it sometimes. So here's what's great about it. I'm going to talk about the positivity of it. Great. The positivity of it is when I would get my period, like three days before my period, my boobs would ache and they'd grow a size and I'd have to have a different bra. And it just

was achy. And you were talking about that. When you go through menopause, everything stays the same I'm like oh I never worry about what I used to worry about with all that I don't get moody I've had a very easy time of it but it's probably because I eat really well and exercise but for me anyway I'm like oh I never have to worry about my boobs aching or I mean during pandemic I didn't even know the word bra it was like I was free and easy and nothing hurt so that's actually something really lovely to look forward to. And also, no one talks about this, what actors go through when you're on a set. It is very different the day you get your period. It's horrible. And you're in the tight, especially when I was Alicia Florent, you're in all the tight things and it

all fit during the fitting. And then you have your period and you're running to change your tampon. None of that matters anymore. Like, I don't worry about wearing white. And you don't have the mood swing. Well, you're wearing a white jumpsuit right now, So I can vouch for that. In homage to Chelsea. And I have my period. So she's obviously celebrating that. But there is something that that's the good parts.

I haven't had a bad one. So the worst, I don't get mood swings. What I get is. Did you get mood swings before, like during your period? Yeah. Oh my God. Oh, okay. Good, good.

Because these sound like all my symptoms. Oh yeah. I would get mood swings. I'd feel achy. I'd be like, I don't want to do this. And I would crave chocolate. Like it, like I had to eat chocolate right away. Like it was chemical.

Yeah. And now I just don't. Right. And the worst part is, actually, I heard Brooke Shields talking about this, which was great. You know, they call them hot flashes. And she said she was in London, and she said to some guy who was checking her luggage, she was like, I'm sorry, I'm having a hot flash. And he said, no, in our country, we call them power surges.

And I thought, oh, I like that, you know? And so when you do get a hot flash, it's like, no, I just look really dewy. Yeah, right. They can be annoying, and they wake you up at night. But it hasn't been so bad. Oh, well, this is very, very good. This is inspiring. I'm very excited to go through menopause and wrap up this period thing. It's horrible. I know. I know you are. You're going to be so happy. Especially with my boobs. I'm just like so over it, you know?

Oh, I can't wait to get that text. You're going to be so happy. That I'm going through menopause. How long is the actual process of menopause? Because my sister said that it can take anywhere from two to five years. I've heard up to 10 years. Oh, gosh, really? I think it really depends on the woman. I've had friends who have gone through menopause at 40. You know, I didn't go through it till 55. Yeah. So I really think it depends. And here's a little tip. I don't know if it's true, but my my gynecologist said I was so smart. But when I had terrible debilitating period cramps when I was in high school and my mother told me to take evening primrose oil and it just stayed with me all these. I always take it every

day. I take it to every day. Yeah. And my gynecologist said that has helped you through menopause oh good to know primrose yeah primrose oil or do you take the capsules or did you take i took the yeah the little capsules yeah okay i take those every night people should take that that's really good for pms too by the way it's great and it's great for your skin good for your skin hair nails all that stuff i think okay so back to your book we're going to pivot away from menopause for those of you who aren't on the heels of it and we're going to go back to sunshine girl back to your book i want to know what your relationship is like with your two sisters Well, it's good.

My eldest sister, after she read the book, called me crying and thanked me. She did? She did. I think it's really something to be able to, you know, first of all, I asked their permission because it's their childhood too, but I had to write it in my, what, you know, and that's why I say in the book, you know, I really do think you see the world differently depending on, like with you, we're the youngest, right? The order you were born in dictates how you see the world. So my eldest sister, who I still, you know, it's so interesting because I feel bad for her that she felt like she had to mother me. She was nine when I was three. You know, like, she's nine.

Yeah. That's a baby. It's a huge onus. And yet she said to me, I always felt guilty that I got the best years of mom and dad. I got to see them as a married and loved couple. And you never even lived with dad. So, you know, it's a juxtaposition between what's worse. I don't know.

But I was so protected by them. And that's why by the time I got in the part of the book where I sort of left home and became my own person and was on my own path, I didn't want to talk about them anymore because that that's their life now. You know, I think my my eldest sister, Alexandra, said to me, it was amazing to see it on the paper. It's one thing to feel it and remember it in your own mind. But to see it on the page is very different. Yeah. So I think they're genuinely. happy with that. She's happy that someone told that story, right? Because even though your experiences are different because of the ages, and I know she moved out earlier when she was like 14, right? She basically said to your mother, like, fuck off. She said, I can't live with you anymore. Right. I mean, and so there must be a lot of guilt that goes with that too, leaving the two of you behind in a sense. Not that that's what she did, but I'm sure that you could... No, there is. You know, there's guilt for her. But even though your experiences differ, you still have that understanding, like, siblings are the only people in the world who understand what you went through.

It is. I mean, last week I went to see my stepmother, who's still alive. Literally every time I leave the nursing home, I look up. I'm like, Dad, seriously, this is why you left me. She turned 90, and I had spent three hours feeding her. But the whole drive home, which was a good three hours from Great Barrington, Massachusetts, I called my sister, and I said, okay, now I have to, because she lives in California, now I have to tell you.

And we just laughed and cried the whole way home. And if you don't have that, and by the way, I'm saying this now, And I'm slightly freaking out because I only have one one kid. So I don't know. But he has very stable parents. So hopefully he won't have the same complaints that me and my sisters have. But it really helps because and also my mom who just got diagnosed with dementia and I had to move her into an assisted living place. the funny parts of it and the sad parts of it. I just call her. I have her support no matter what. You know, she's always there and appreciative that I'm doing all the work. But I'm happy to do it because at the end of the day, like, what am I going to do? Not be there for them. You have to be there for them. Right. Absolutely. When my father was in a nursing home, I remember my brother and I were leaving, driving back one day and his son was in the back seat. And I was

like i was about to go to africa and i was like if dad dies while i'm in africa i go do i have to come back my brother glenn look he was like you should see the look on his face he goes typically chelsea people return from whatever trips they're on to go to their parents funeral and then my i go all right i'm just asking like i was just putting it out there obviously i'll come back if that's what's expected of me and my nephew in the back is like so he said something like well maybe we can just kill you or something. And I was like, oh, fuck. I guess I said the wrong thing if an eight-year-old knows better than I do. But yeah, you do have a lot of responsibilities as a child when you become an adult. It's so interesting, the whole cycle of parenting.

You know, like I just, I never as a kid respected my parents because I didn't think they had any business having this many children. You know, I just, I couldn't ever think about my mother in terms of her as her own history, her own life that she had before I was ever there. I could never think about my father in those terms. To me, they were only my parents and they were there to service me. But that's, that's truthful. How is a child supposed to understand what their parents have gone through before? I try to tell my kid, I said to him, I was like, any chance you want to read the book? He's like, no, I'm good. Yeah. And he said, he's like, mom, I have you every day. I know who you are. He won't watch me act ever. Right. He's like, that's just embarrassing.

And I mean, he came to the set a couple of times. I was on The Good Wife for seven years. And maybe by the time he was 11, he came to the set because he wanted to sit behind the camera and, you know, check out all the equipment. But not because he wanted to see me act. Yeah, it's amazing how immune you become to something as soon as you're exposed to it, right? Oh, it's like, I mean, what's funny now is because The Good Wife wasn't a show that kids in his class would watch. But with The Morning Show, because I'm playing this kick-ass lesbian journalist. journalist. And his grade, 40% of the 100 kids that are in eighth grade have identified as

something other. And I would say a good half of that are lesbian girls, 13-year-old lesbian girls who are crazy in love with Laura Peterson. Oh, that's awesome. So suddenly he has some currency. He was like, wait, what's that character you're playing? Because people are talking about her. And I was like, who's talking about her? You're too young to watch the morning show. He's like, they're all watching mom. But there's, I think as he gets older, he might appreciate it more. But he said he's embarrassed because he's like, I know you as my mom. I don't want to know you as anyone else. And I think that's healthy and good. Yeah, it probably is. I'm sure he's fine. You guys are both very stable. So I'm sure he's not

going to have any sort of drama. I mean, he hasn't had drama that you have grown up with because we always correct, right? I mean, you stop that cycle. Yeah, everyone overcorrects. Whoever doesn't have a good experience with their parents does the opposite or perpetuates the cycle, which clearly you're not doing. Another fascinating thing that I know you've spoken about ad nauseum, but you turned down $27 million when they wanted to renew you for two more years on ER, which I remember reading and going, fuck. But I've also turned down significant amounts of money, not $27 million, but when I was

leaving E, they thought it was a joke that I was trying to negotiate. I'm like, no, no, I'm done. I'm over this. And they're like, no. And they kept throwing more and more money. And at one point, I went, wow, that's a lot of money, but I'm still not interested. So I can relate to that. But I didn't know that about you until I read your book.

I didn't know about that $27 million that they wanted to keep you on ER. And I certainly didn't know that people were on television giving you, like, Barbara Walters and Joy Behar and people on The View and whatever other television shows were talking smack about you turning down that money, like, as in, who does this woman think she is? Right. Right. Because that kind of money, if you turn that down, that means you think you're better than that. Yeah. Which wasn't the case. Which isn't the case. It's not about being better than that. It's about being done with something. I wanted to live my life. I want to move back to New York. I was doing a play for $265 a week at Lincoln Center.

Yeah, I didn't, you know, until people started talking like that about it, I hadn't thought of it that way. and it was my dad that really he was like you know honey when you say no to something people ask themselves what they would say no to and they wouldn't say no to that so then they get mad at you for having the courage to do it because it's something they wouldn't do but the way the view all those chicks on the view which I still to this day have not been on why because because I'm not gonna go on it yeah I don't blame you I'm not gonna go on it because they never listen I'm I get it. I'm a somewhat public figure. And so people can rip me to shreds or they have the right. Right. That's OK. They can't do it to my kid, but they can do it to me. But when it's a woman and I was 32 and when they're saying, who does she think she is? She's not some spring chicken is what Barbara Walters said. And then Joy Behar was like, women can't turn down that kind of, you know, it was all about, there was no female support.

There was no someone saying, well, wait a minute, she's doing this play and she's going off to, you know, blah, blah, blah. And maybe, wow, maybe money isn't the most important thing in the world to her. But no one took any side except pouncing on who does she, I guess they thought I thought I was going to be some big movie star, which that wasn't even my wheelhouse. I just wanted to work. I wanted to work doing other things. Six years is a long time to play the same character. I understand. Yeah. There's a seven-year itch, I think, for everything. They talk about that for marriage, but it's in life, too. It happens in friendships. It happens in work relationships. It happens in every molecule in your body. Every seven years, they change.

Yeah. Your hair changes. Your nails change. So suck on that, everybody. That's actually a Jewish thing. Seven years is a cycle. Well, it's not just a Jewish thing, but in Judaism, seven years is always like a renewal, and every seven years is meaningful in that regard. But tell the story about how you made that decision. You talked to your father, who, by the way, is so sagacious in his advice giving throughout the book. Like, he's just kind of like this old wise man. He is an old wise man. You know, which is kind of exactly what you want a father to be. Yeah. But tell the story about going to the bookstore after.

Right. So is it still there, the Bodhi Tree Bookstore? Yeah, Bodhi Tree Bookstore on Melrose. On Melrose, yeah. So I went to the Bodhi Tree Bookstore, and I actually had never been in it before. And I thought it was that same thing that my grandfather was, you never know, a left instead of a right. Like, just go with what the feeling is.

And so I went and I picked out a book. I didn't know the author. It said, the book's title is Awakening the Buddha Within by Surya Ram Dass. And I bought the book. I sort of like, you know, put my finger down the shelf and just picked that book. And I brought it home. And the boyfriend who I was trying to leave for five years was there. And he was one of the people saying, you got to take the money.

You got to take the money. He was living a very nice life in my Santa Monica house. I bet. That's another thing. I was like, she better not take that money while she's with that guy. He'll never leave. Yeah. And I took the book upstairs into my bedroom and I shut the door and I sat down on a chair

and I closed my eyes and I opened up the book and I just took my finger and pointed at a line in the book and I opened my eyes and I couldn't make this up. the line said I realized my mission in life was to learn more not earn more and I'm not a religious person at all but I truly I was like that was like divine intervention yeah you know I would say so and then I read the whole book because I was fascinated and this was a guy who was a wall street genius and making millions and millions of dollars a day and waking up every morning feeling empty it's like why aren't I happy and he ended up giving it all away and becoming a monk. And he found his happiness. And it was, it was sort of that, it was, that was a

lightning bolt moment where I thought, do what you want to do. Don't do. And that was the beginning of the end of that relationship. You know, when I, when I started realizing, oh, I'm in charge of my own life. No one else is. Because no one else is living it. You can tell me what you want me to do, but you're not in my shoes. And it felt really empowering. Yeah, I think it is really empowering. I hope more women do the same thing and feel like, you know, the self-worth that comes along with making that decision. Because regardless of how anybody else perceives it, there is a lot of self-worth in just saying no to anything that doesn't behoove you or suit your needs or interests at that point. You know, it's not like you're screwing anybody over. You're just standing

up for yourself and directing your own life. Anyway, we could talk for hours about just whatever, but we actually have some advice to be giving out. Doling out, Julian, I hope you're prepared for this. I'm so excited. I listened to this podcast and I'm always like, how are they going to answer that. OK, now it's my turn. Catherine, tell us what we have in store for us today. Well, we have we're starting with a question that has to do exactly with what we were just talking about, money and, you know, choosing the right job for yourself that's fulfilling. We have some sister issues. We've got a whole bunch of good stuff. So we'll take a quick break and we'll be back with Juliana and Chelsea. OK, Juliana and I are going to

just take a quick spritz. We'll be right back. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. but these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here.

It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.

You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one. He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood. He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. Well, our first question comes from Niall. He says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a 33-year-old Irish man living in New York City for over 10 years now. Like a lot of the Irish diaspora, I assimilated into a career in the bar and restaurant industry for most of that time. I didn't always love it. I knew there was something more out there for me, but I could never get clear on what.

Plus, it was fun, easy money, relatively free of stress, which is how I aspire to live my life as much as possible. Next thing I know, I've been doing it for eight years with no plan for really what I want to do. When the pandemic hit in 2020, I re-evaluated. This was my opportunity and my sign that it was time to branch out into something new. When an administrative position became available with a non-profit suicide prevention organization I was familiar with, I applied and to my disbelief was hired to work there. I was so happy. After

years of aimlessly floating through the bar and restaurant industry of New York City, I found a calling that aligned so much with my heart and my purpose. For context, I lost a beloved friend to suicide four years ago and vowed that her loss would not be in vain and that I would make some small difference where I could. I found being a small part of an organization that helped those like my dear friend in their darkest hours to find hope and a way forward to be indescribably rewarding and fulfilling. There was only one problem. I could not survive on what I was earning. All of our services are completely free of charge to the clients and the organization relies completely on fundraising, donations, and grants from the city. I've amassed $6,000 in credit card

debt over the past year to try and stay afloat. I worked out a compromise with my employer that they would hire an intern so I could finish work earlier and do an evening shift or two in a bar for much-needed supplemental income. This was still not enough to survive on. After a lot of internal battling, I now know that the practical solution is that I will, with a heavy heart, have to give my notice and go elsewhere. Elsewhere being, for now, back to serving drinks. I would have stayed in my job until retirement age were it not for the financial side of things. It's very disappointing, but I've tried my best. I feel very overwhelmed and lacking in confidence and even thinking of where to go next.

I just want to make a decent income that doesn't have me stressing about money constantly, but also hopefully continue in a similar role that makes a small difference somehow to someone somewhere. Huge thanks for the excellent podcast and the lives it helps. Niall. Hi, Niall. Hi, Niall. Hi.

Nice to meet you both. You're here today with Juliana Margulies. She's our special guest and Catherine, our producer. Hi, Juliana. Hi, Chelsea. nice to meet you nice to see you again Catherine hi how are you all doing oh we're good how are you doing I'm good I'm good obviously uh you've just heard my uh my submission there so you've got kind of filled in I'm a week through my two weeks notice now so halfway there

no clear plan on what's coming next as I say it will be a temporary stop gap back to the bar pay off my credit card which is kind of the big like cloud of dread that's been hanging over me recently and then beyond that i'll figure it out but i'm very like i live like as i say under a lot of like dread and anxiety so not having a very clear long-term plan of what comes next is like very overwhelming to me so as i said i would have stayed in this job happily until retirement were it not for the financial side of things but i'm now trying to reframe it and look at it in a more positive way and think well maybe you would have grown stale and stagnant staying in a job or in any aspect of life for too long so maybe this is kind of the push out of my comfort zone that

i do need as well so i'm trying to like train myself to sort of view it in a new way but um yeah the dread and the the fear and then the nerves keep kind of creeping back up i guess so what are you doing in the interim you're going back to the bar you're in a bartend or wait tables what's your and try and pay off your debt yeah your credit card yeah they don't pay you anything at the suicide hotline that they oh no i do i do get i do get paid there i have a salary it's just it is a charge it's just not enough non-profit and I'm just not surviving on it unfortunately and I haven't been for a while but I kind of pushed it to the back of my head because I was thinking well pros far outweigh the cons there's so much of this job that I love and

you know someday I'll you know be breaking even but then it's kind of I woke up to it recently and I was going okay I really need to do something about this or the whole of finance financial struggle that I'm digging myself into is going to continue so I really wrestled with the decision to leave I really don't want to I think a lot of it as well as I don't have a particularly high level of self-esteem or confidence and I got so much of that from doing this line of work because I knew how much it was helping other people to be some small part of it and mentioning as well that suicide is something I've been personally affected by so yeah I took tremendous self-worth and and esteem and everything from it so there's all of that as well

I don't get the same buzz from waiting tables yeah no kidding no shit that's the way it's a good way to take away your self-esteem but listen you've had this positive that's a you've had this that's not going to happen to you you've had this positive experience right doing what you really got fulfilled from so you know like where that lies and is there a way for you to do that on a part-time level like to volunteer a couple days a week when I know you need to pay off your credit cards now so that's the most important thing but is there a way to stay working for this non-profit on a more minimal basis? I'm sure there could be and we did discuss that but again I just feel it's not probably a viable long-term solution definitely there's

going to be case-by-case basis I could volunteer like for fundraising events and certain things like that but doing it on a continuous basis I don't think it's going to really be feasible I wouldn't rule it out certainly if it's something that becomes you know an opportunity I will definitely available. I just don't think it's, you know, really feasible right now, at least. Maybe it's something that I can revisit at some point when I'm in a little bit of a better situation. Well, I would just say, you know, if that brought you as much fulfillment as you're describing, it's worth holding on to it, even if it's a day or a day a week, you know, even if you go in on a Sunday for four hours or, you know, whatever. I think that's valuable to keep in mind,

you know, to have an attachment to that still, or look for another place where you can volunteer for those hours, you know, just for like one day a week or, you know, where you're really talking to people. And in the meantime, I would say, you know, if you've found such value and fulfillment in that, I think what you need to look for the next six months should be about you paying off your credit cards, which I'm sure you can do waiting table. I mean, bartending, waiting tables, you're going to be able to make cash quickly, but you should be looking in the direction of therapy, like in counseling and helping people, right? Oh my God. We need people like you. you're doing god's work absolutely i had actually thought about that prior to securing the job that

i'm now leaving i had thought about initially going back to school and training to be a therapist and then it was kind of the going back to school aspect that sort of scared me yeah because then you're in more debt right well yeah exactly yeah and it's yeah so i wouldn't rule that out either i would love to get involved that kind of work on the therapeutic side as i mentioned i'm on the administrative side currently but you know the training and qualifications that are needed i certainly be willing to do it it's just the time and the expense as well that's kind of holding you back a little bit at the moment i don't think you should quit cold turkey because you just said it yourself that it's given you this kind of confidence that you're helping people there's

very few people like you in the world that actually get fulfillment from helping other people and so don't quit it completely i wouldn't because you need it as much as they need it So if you could, even on a Sunday, you know, like you're going to have a day off. I was a bartender and a waitress, so you're definitely going to have a day off. You have a day off. And I know it's not the most fun thing to have to work on your day off, but it feeds you. It seems to feed your soul. And so I don't think you should shut that door.

And I think that ultimately you should start talking to people and finding out how you can get the training somehow where you can still work and not end up being in debt so that you can do this for a living. Mm-hmm. I agree with that. And I think there are different tiers of counseling, right? Sometimes you have to get certified. There's an MFCC. Sometimes you have to go to school for two years. Obviously, you're not going to want to devote, from what I can tell so far, you don't want to go to school and then get your master's and then become a psychiatrist. That's a longer journey. But there are many other tiers of helping people and becoming a counselor that are achievable, even without extra cash. You know, there are grants that you can apply for. You can help put yourself through school so that you don't end up being in debt. You know, you can go to a community college program and get the certification you need to become a counselor to work for. You know, there are so many different kind of I'm not well schooled or versed in all of these different therapy programs. But I know a friend of mine that went for two years and is now a counselor.

So, you know, there are different you just have to do the research and actually find out what can work for you, because something that is contributing a you're helping people and that's never wrong. That's always just a great direction to head in and you're helping yourself. So you have to like have a little faith in the process and not be overwhelmed by the commitment moving into it, you know, and start asking the people you're working with who work there, too. like what would you do if you wanted to ultimately go to school but i can't because you know who do you know and who should i talk to it's it's something i i was always afraid to ask for help i thought i had to do everything on my own yeah and man i i love not being scared of asking for help anymore it's changed my life yeah you've got to ask the people around you what would you do if you were i always say that to everybody to doctor what would you do if you were me how would you do it yeah and you just get a different perspective that's so true as well and you've actually highlighted something for me that i haven't considered before which is my need to be

independent and think no i can do this alone i don't need help i don't need support has probably exacerbated the situation that i'm now in yeah so definitely yeah and i'm i'm actually not short on contacts and resources and people that i'm sure can help me get along to use forever use them it just takes one person to say the one thing you need to hear to get you on your journey like literally one person. The more forthcoming you are to people, you'd be surprised how many people really take pride in helping other people. The people who aren't there or aren't available for that will let you know that they're not available for that. But just like Juliana just said, it takes one person to kind of help steer you in the right direction or help aid you in finding

out the right information you need to proceed with a program or to sign up for a program or to go to night school or to fit it in around your bartending hours you know at least then you know that you're bartending as a means to an end it's not just interminable and probably now because of you know the silver lining of of covid is there's probably so many online courses you could do that you can do from your your bed on your computer when you get home from work yeah and do it in your own time and do it in your own time and it might take you five years you're 33, you're so young. I know you don't think that, but you are. You're really young. So it takes you 10 years. At 43, where you'll still be so young, you'll be a fully licensed therapist and can go

about your life the way you want to live it. Don't pressure yourself about time. Yeah, that's so true. Not everything has to be immediate and instantaneous. No, we want it right away. And it's scary. And trust me, you're obviously smart enough to know that you better start paying back all the debt you owe on your credit cards. $6,000. I'm so glad you said that and not $25,000. You know what I mean? Oh, I know. Yeah. Yeah. It could be a lot worse. You're nipping it in the bud. So you have a better catching it now. Right. And to speak a little bit to the self-esteem issue. Now, I read a lot of emails. And in two years of reading these emails, this is one of the most beautiful emails I've read. It's really beautiful. You have skills

with communication that are far above average. And so wherever you land, whether it's back with the same nonprofit or somewhere else, you are able to communicate in a way that any employer would value. So don't sell yourself short. I think wherever you land, you're going to do really, really well. Thank you. And with that accent, my God. Right? Yeah, it's a win-win situation. Your accent alone will get you in the door. Hopefully. Worth a shot. It's worth a shot. I'll talk all day if I help. Yeah. And just remember, you know, intentionally, like your intentions are good.

Yeah. When everything is aligned and you're kind of following your purpose in your life, and this really sounds like it's going to be your purpose, things align for you more easily than you think. So you're in a situation right now, and if you take the steps to get yourself on the road to becoming a counselor, to becoming some sort of therapist, and you figure out, OK, how am I going to do this and how am I going to achieve this and set up a plan? things are going to happen for you that you didn't see coming and things people will come into your

life that will help assist that and will help make it happen for you because there becomes like a magnetic attraction you know when your intention is clear and you're doing a good and you're doing good work things will start to open up for you so you have to believe in that yeah absolutely that's so true I recently found out through therapy as well that I'm addicted to negative thinking so I'm trying to work in all of that as well so again reframing it and instead being optimistic and positive and open to risks and, you know, taking a gamble and opportunities, which I'm so allergic and cautious to right now. And I don't really know why, because it's obviously not working very well for me. But you'll never know unless you try, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No regrets. Don't

have regrets. And the antidote to negative thinking is to be listening to someone else, you know, which is what your goal is. That takes you out of your own head and your own ass. And then you don't have time to be thinking negatively when you're talking to other people, listening to their problems. So yeah, I think that you know exactly what you should do and what steps you should take moving forward just to get yourself in the mode of having a plan and having a time frame so you're not freaking out and living in this kind of fearful situation or position or thinking. Absolutely. Well, Niall, I want you to get your act together and then follow back up with us and let us know when you do have something going on and you have enrolled yourself into a

program and what your game plan is, because I think that's going to add to your self-esteem a lot too. I absolutely will. Yeah. Thank you. You know, I don't have too many good ideas when I drink, but I was having a couple of glasses of wine the other night because I was so depressed after knowing that I'd be handing my notice in and I was like, I'm going to write it to Chelsea. That's a good idea. And I'm really, really happy that I did. And look at that quick turnaround. You wrote this email after a couple of drinks. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So there we go. Reframing at them thinking more positively yeah yeah thank you very much for the advice and encouragement this has been invaluable oh you're the cutest Niall good luck with everything fine yes I have

no doubt you're gonna be great thank you guys thank you so much take care have a great day up top sister up top that makes me so happy that was great that was awesome wasn't he just wonderful he was so sweet and adorable yeah it's so nice to see a man caring so much it not like that men don't care but sometimes it feels like they really don't it's so nice to hear men being so thoughtful about things you know and having that he's a softy like there was something so open about his heart yeah yeah god when we do need more people like him yeah right exactly remember when in the days where we had people would support artists you know the rich people where are those people they're supposed to support all these people that make the world better

in art and music and struggling musicians and therapists. We need those back. We need to start a mentor program. Well, yeah, we need people like Elon Musk to stop spending their money on shuttlecocks and spending it on actually making the world a better place. Yeah, okay. So we'll start with that.

There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at belairdirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they are abducted stalked controlled and nearly silenced but these aren't stories about what's taken from them they're stories about what it takes to make it out alive Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus

or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people

and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts, you go with it. And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now-husband, Andrew, was the one. He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood.

He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Catherine, who do we have next? Next, we have Taylor. Taylor says, Dear Chelsea, My entire adult relationship with my little sister has revolved around being there for her

while she struggled with mental health, bouts of substance abuse, and an abusive relationship. She's 22. And Taylor, by the way, is 25. I was the one who showed up when it got ugly between her and her boyfriend and answered countless times when she called, intoxicated and crying. Last year, she and her boyfriend finally separated. My family and I were hopeful that she would move on and recover, but before he even moved out, my sister had already found a new guy.

Six months later, she's now living with him, and our relationship has ceased to exist. I can't tell if she's shunned me to avoid my disapproval or if she just doesn't need me to help pick up the pieces anymore. Either way, I feel angry at her for what she put me through, especially now that it feels like I've lost her. I miss my sister, but I have no idea how to build a relationship with her given the shaky foundation it was built on in the first place. I know you're very close with your sisters.

How can I put my feelings aside and make my way back into her life? Taylor. Aww. Hi, Taylor. Hi, Taylor. Hi. Hi. We have Juliana Margulis with us today.

Hi. So nice to see you both. You too. Nice to see you. It sounds like you really love your sissy. Yes. I definitely miss her. Okay, so explain to me what happened where the break was.

So after my sister broke up with her boyfriend, she immediately started dating someone new. And I found out through hearsay in the family because she was a little too, I guess, scared to tell me. And that's sort of where the rift came. Can I just ask you something? When she was going through this breakup with the boyfriend, was she a mess? Were you picking her up off the floor? Was she despondent? Yeah, it was bad.

It was bad. And you were there for her? Yes. Yeah. They had like their last fight and I had showed up and it was very dramatic. And then a couple of weeks that went by, I'd check in with her and then I had heard through the grapevine that she already had a new boyfriend and that her boyfriend was moving out. And you haven't spoken to her since that last time? I have spoken to her. I saw her at Christmas and it was just like very she was just very standoffish. And I tried to express my concern. And I'm a little angry at her, obviously, for for not telling me herself. And so I haven't really reached out since. And so, yeah, well, let me ask you one question. You said she drinks a lot, right? Does she use drugs, too? She smokes pot. Oh, okay.

But she doesn't do anything heavier like cocaine or ecstasy or any of that stuff? Right, no. Okay. So it just sounds like she feels a little shame, right? She's embarrassed for being in this relationship. Because why else would she retreat from you when you've been there for her this whole time unless she feels a little bit embarrassed by her own behavior? Yeah, it's shame.

She didn't have the balls to tell you. And also, she probably knows she's wrong. You don't take up with someone else right after you, you know? That's that's her being afraid to be alone and get her life together. And she knows you probably can see that. I'm just sad that it came at like the cost of me. Right. Well, I mean, I think there's a couple of ways you can handle this. I mean, either you can put it in an email or you can sit down with her and talk to her. I mean, I always like an email better because obviously emotions run high in person and then sometimes you can be reactive when in an email you can just kind of put everything down and edit it and look at it a million times before you feel like sending it. And then sometimes never send it. But in this case, it sounds like, you know, it's your sister for life. I'm sure you're going to want to send something to her and and kind of repair whatever. Not repair, but I guess salvage. Yeah. Salvage your relationship so that you have one. But there's really no harm in reminding her of like the role that you've played, you know, and how important that role is to you and how important she is to you. You are her bigger sister, right? You're 25 and she's 22.

Yeah, correct. Right. Those relationships can be fraught and they can be dramatic. My sisters certainly have bailed me out a million times in my life. I've been horrible when I was a teenager and a young adult. I was a nightmare. And they put up with it and they love me just the same. And so I can really relate to your love for your sister because she just seems like she's

going through a pretty selfish time in her life. And some people can be really self-absorbed. It doesn't mean they're going to be that way forever. I'm not like that anymore. I always always think of my sisters before I think of myself just because of all the stuff that I had they had to endure Uh from me and they still loved you and they still loved me But maybe she feels like you're judged, you know She feels judged by you and you have every right to feel that way about her. You're going to have judgment, of course

But beneath all of that is just love and sisterhood and you're from the same family and that's never going to go away So it's important for you to remind her that no matter what happens you're her sister and you love her that's above and beyond everything else and that you always want a relationship with her and that you never know what can happen in life and you'd hate for anything terrible to happen while the two of you aren't speaking so it's so important to keep the communication open you know first and foremost is to remind her juliana what do you think about that i i think you hit the nail on the head when you said write it down i personally would write a letter, not an email, because I think there's something to be said about the weight of having

to open up snail mail and having it, you know, emails disappear or they go to the junk box or she can pretend she never got it or, but you type it up on your computer and save it for yourself and print it out. Once you start writing things down, things become much more clear. But I also know from family members of my own being heavy drinkers, they tend to see things negatively and as judgment. So I would start the letter by saying what exactly what you said to us. I miss you. Because I think the second you say how you're really feeling, she won't see it as judgment. She'll see it as you reaching out. And I know if I had gotten a letter from my sister that said, I miss you and I'm worried about you. And I want you to know

that you're a big part of my life. And I understand you have another boyfriend. That doesn't mean you have to check out on me. I'm not here to judge you. This is your life. But remember, I'm here and I love you and I want you to be okay. You know, it goes both ways too. Like I want to say, you're also not her punching bag, right? Because, because family, you know, just because your family, you're supposed to be there all the time. And then when they're horrible to you, you're supposed to take it. You're not. And you, you don't have to, you can get up and say, okay, if this all goes wrong and she starts lashing out at you, you're then going to just have to take the power back and say, I'll be back in your life when you want to treat me with respect

and love the way I love you. And you're going to have to make that choice. Yeah. That kind of goes to what Chelsea was saying. Like, hopefully this is just like a short time in her life where she's, you know, having a selfish time. And I want to definitely approach the communication in a loving way and I think that's probably been my mistake in the past and why she has reacted this way because she knows that I come from this like big sister dynamic of like what are you doing you know or I told you so or yeah you don't the second you wave your finger but if you come at them with love where does she have to go she can't really go anywhere else right do you know anything about her new boyfriend is he good influence or anything negative or positive from what my family said he's

very similar to her last boyfriend. And so not everyone was very excited to hear that news. Okay. Well, then you want to leave your judgment out of that as well, because that's another thing that's just going to push her away if she feels any sort of judgment on the relationship. You could say, I miss you. I don't even, I would love to get to know your new boyfriend. However, you want to spend time together. Like if you don't want to spend time alone and you want to spend time with your boyfriend, he's welcome to. Just make it an open, open invitation to her so that there is no defense to put up, right? So she doesn't have to protect herself from anything. And yeah, starting with I miss you and I love you, instead of laying it all out, I think getting

reconnecting with her first and getting her as your confidant again and being close to her is the best move in order just to keep her close so that she knows she can trust you and that whatever happens, you'll still be there. Is it just the two of you? We have one older brother. You have older brother are you close with him yeah yeah i'm really close with him here's my suggestion because we chelsea and i were just talking before the podcast like nobody knows you and your family like your siblings it would be really great if you could um have him read the letter before you send it because he'll see things in it he you know you don't want any judgmental or negativity in the letter and you may only be meaning it from your heart but it might come out harsh when another

person reads it. So I highly suggest you ask your brother to read it before you put it in the envelope and send it. Also, it's nice to have someone in your corner, you know, for you to say to him, I'm just, you know, you're hurt, obviously, otherwise you wouldn't have called in. I can see that you're hurt, but that, but that it, it's so touching that you miss your little sister and love her. So come from that place. And then if she chooses, it's her choice. She's also is really young she's 22 but if she and she's and she's self-medicating with alcohol right so if she chooses to ignore it then you've done your part and then you have to work on how to let go just for a while yeah probably not forever you're right I like the idea of having my brother read it for

sure because if yeah he can clock anything that yeah it's coming off not how I want it to come off and he knows her so he knows probably how she'll react to something so it'll be helpful to have another set of eyes on that for you to feel confident when you send it that you sent the right message yeah i love that good yeah well taylor let us know how it goes and if your sister responds or what happens with that okay i will for sure thank you both so much you're so you're welcome taylor good luck with everything good luck thank you bye bye oh what a cutie that's a good advice to have her brother look at it. Right. Yeah. We have that going on in our family all the time because we have so many kids. And whenever, whenever anyone has to have a talk

with anyone, I always am volunteering because I have no problem with confrontation. And my sister, Simone, will always step in and go, no, no, let me do it. I'll do it. And then finally, I've learned that when I say things, it can come across in a much different way than if a regular, normal, calmer person says them. So I'll say to my sister, I'll assign her a role and say, hey, you need to talk to Roy about this and she'll be like okay okay and then a month goes by and I and I'll go hey did you talk to Roy and she's like and I go well don't tell me not to confront everybody if you're not going to pick up the pieces right and she's like I know I know I just couldn't get around to it she's like I didn't have it in me so we some people have a real hard time with having

those difficult conversations they're hard yeah right they're hard and it take it does take a village you know yeah because you have to you have to consider how what you're saying is going to be received not just saying it that was my mistake for a while just saying it and putting it out there and it's like that doesn't work you have to consider the other person and where they're coming from and how they are going to take that information in you wrote that beautifully in your book oh thank you it's great because i don't think people really think that way and it takes you also out of yourself for how you're going to respond to somebody you know why did that upset me oh maybe they didn't mean it like that yeah you know just

because we're so quick to jump to conclusions and and and to anger yeah and it's just not a healthy place to live no no it's not my Dan my psychiatrist always says you know like anytime you're in a state of reactivity like there's no point in even communicating because you're not ever going to solve anything you have to take your reaction and then take 10 minutes and then there's your response that was freaky by the way because I was so invested in your relationship with dan and i loved your sessions with him that i in my head knew what he sounded like and then he was on the podcast and i remember i was walking through washington square park i was like oh this is dan i didn't think he sounded like that it totally took me out that's funny i love dan

yeah i know dan's the best he's so smart yeah joe and i have gone to couples counseling like twice with dan and joe because joe hasn't had that kind of counseling and like you know as a relationship we all have our own histories. You can trigger something in someone when you're not doing anything, you know, or you think you're not doing anything. And so we went into Dan once and we did like a two hour session of just explaining to us how emotions work and how every memory is imprinted in our body from childhood and that things that were traumatizing, even though they don't resemble what's happening right now, it is bringing up a very instance from your childhood. And Joe must have said the same five things I said in our first session, my first session with Dan, which is my

childhood has nothing to do with this. And it's like, no, no, that's everyone's mistake. That's exactly what I said. I go, I don't want to talk about my childhood. My mother's dead. My brother's dead. Nothing to see here. Yeah. Like I'm walking around with a broken leg and thinking it's going to fix itself. So it is interesting to get, he laid the foundation. I left that, I left our session that day and I was like, oh my God, I feel like I just got like psychology 101. I could listen to that shit for hours. Yeah, me too. It's so fascinating. I mean, that's what I was going to do if acting didn't pan out because it's it's it's behavior it's what i do for a living right i watch people's behavior yeah and what makes them tick what why do you act that way and you act that

way it's all about the childhood man i know i know but look how nicely you've turned out with your childhood being so unmoored you know look how nicely you turned out that's like that's a huge victory lap yeah i thank god i mean i also think i got really lucky in that both of my parents were open to hearing it and to fessing up. I think parents of their generation, they're not all there yet because, and I know it's hard to confront your parents, especially when they're older, but they both were receptive. And well, and they both really loved you. They just had their own issues. And that's the same thing with my family. I was very loved, even though I was neglected by my parents, you know, not being picked up from Hebrew school 15 times in a row.

I'm like, listen, assholes, if you're going to make me go to Hebrew school, you need to fucking to pick my ass up. You think I want to go to Hebrew school and learn Hebrew? Like, I'm not down with that at all. So yeah. And I remember Dan saying, oh God, your parents, that's so traumatizing not being picked up from school. I'm like, Dan, none of us were picked up from school and we're all fine. He goes, no, that's, that's abandonment. And I'm like, well, that seems dramatic. And then you come around to the notion, you're like, that was abandonment. Well, yeah. And you remember those things. So many people kept asking me, how did you remember are all these things in the book because you write so clearly about them and like you remember I

remember being five years old and my mother my mother dropping me off to kindergarten which was up this big hill and my sisters went to the school I could see it from the top of the hill and I walked my little five-year-old self walked up and we didn't have kindergarten that day and my mother had drove away and went to work and I just sat there and I remember it clear as day because you remember trauma you don't remember everyday normalcy yeah and I remember sitting there and thinking should I walk down the hill and tell an adult and I just sat there till 3 p.m until she came to pick me up and this was before phones everybody okay so she sat there doing fucking nothing that was five that reminds me of my sister my sister for two weeks went to school

with my three brothers they were going to elementary school they were all a year apart My sister started going with them And after two weeks The school called my mother And they're like Your daughter is four She can't be in school With your sons

She's not school age And my mom was like Oh she can't It's like what Right that's like my mom She never enrolled us in school She just dropped us off Yeah that's a funny story

I mean oh my god And they let you in And then you basically Picked your classroom You're like I guess I'll be in this I guess I'll be in A6 Or whatever it was

6A There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. but these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here.

It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb. If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.

You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you. You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one. He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood. He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, Catherine, what do we have? I love this. Our last question comes from Renee. Dear Chelsea. Is she on the phone? She's not. This one's just an email. She's in Australia, so the timing's a little tough.

She's in Australia, mate. Yes. She's down under. That's good. Thanks. Right? I should have you read this. I'm a 33-year-old primary school teacher from Melbourne.

Your podcast was my saving grace through lockdown and it helped me realize my worth, strength, and independence. For that, I'm incredibly grateful. I have an incredible boyfriend who I've been with for five years this October. We plan on rock climbing around the world for two years starting this December. There's just one problem. I've dreamed about getting married since I was six years old, and it means nothing to him.

My parents have been happily married for 47 years. His separated when he was 18. Here's some of our history. He broke up with me a week after we first got together because he panicked and thought he was making a big mistake. I was the first person in over 10 years he's been in a relationship with. He always tells me he adores me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me. It happened again on our fourth anniversary last year when I jokingly asked him if he'd ever want to marry me, quote, one day. He paused and said he doesn't believe in it.

Three days later, he broke up with me, saying we were too different and we wanted different things. Over the next two days, we had the best conversations as we cried together. Each time, he felt he was making a big mistake by ending it. He apologized, and two days later, we were back on. He said he'd think about marriage, and he still wants to spend the rest of his life with me. Over six months have passed, and there are times when I fall asleep crying because I feel so heartbroken that he doesn't feel the same about this form of commitment. There's no doubt that he adores me and means everything he says.

He also assures me that he's not going to break up with me again when he panics. I also don't want him to marry me one day just to shut me up. I'm incredibly flexible in our relationship and committed to making him happy. I always wanted kids and to get married. Kids are a maybe for us, but I'm not willing to sacrifice marriage too. I believe he's got some unresolved issues from his childhood. He's avoidant and I'm anxious. Individual or couples counseling is off the table.

He's one chapter into our relationship book my psychologist suggested. but he's not invested. We're about to explore putting my name on the loan for his house that we just finished renovating. This is a huge step for him. Nothing in his life shows me that I'm his, quote, life partner besides us living together. I don't know how I can feel secure and get peace of mind

before we travel together. Oh, wise one, please help. Yours truly, Renee. Holy moly, so much coming back. I know, it's a lot. You go. You start, Juliana. How old did they say?

she's 33 and I believe he's about the same age okay so first of all there's so many red flags I'm sorry I hate to say this there are so many red flags and you can talk all you want but he has to show you and he hasn't so far he's saying I'll never do this and I'll never do that and I want this and I want that but he's not giving what you want and you both have very different views on how you want to live your adult lives. You definitely don't want to get married to a man who doesn't believe in marriage. Now, marriage isn't everything. I never wanted to get married. You know, some people just love being partners and that's great, but it sounds like you really want to be married. Then you said, I always envisioned my life married with children.

He doesn't want children, but I won't accept not having marriage. Like already there's so many red flags going up that this is not your life partner. This might have been a moment partner unless you can get into therapy and figure it out. I think these are going to keep coming up every time. Well, also, I think she said therapy's off the table. Yeah. Why is therapy off the table? If he's not interested in going to therapy, that is a big red flag. And I agree with Juliana that there are multiple red flags because breaking up with you, A, he freaked out after a week of dating you or some short amount of time and broke up with you and then did it again when you brought up marriage at four years like that's that's deep into it yeah you've been together four years so

like that's yes of course he has emotional trauma from his childhood we all do but if he's not willing to do that work then you shouldn't be willing to sacrifice something that means that much to you i agree with juliana marriage isn't everything i don't care about being married but if it matters to you that is what is important that is paramount to his thoughts and you being excited that he's going to put your name on his loan for the house is also a red flag. Oh, huge red flag. Because that is not a sign of anything. Like, if anything, you're setting yourself up to possibly be responsible for his loan, you know, without any commitment from him. So I don't know why

that's a good idea. Also, something in your letter really struck me. You said the last six months, you go to bed crying. You're about to go on a two-year rock climbing trip with this person. So you're only going to have that person in your life. I want to stop you. I know this sounds awful and I probably shouldn't say this, but you're 33 and I know he seems like the love of your life right now. You have a huge life in front of you.

Before you go rock climbing with this guy, you have got to figure out your stuff and get him into therapy with you to find out if this is a trip you want to take for two years. Absolutely. And if somebody is so intransigent that they will not commit to going to therapy to figure out the very—I guarantee you if you put it on the table to him and say, I cannot move forward with this relationship unless you go into counseling, I guarantee you he'll go. And if he doesn't, then that is exactly the sign you need to move on. You don't want him. Yeah.

And I know this is hard to hear. I understand. It's horrible to hear. We've all been in love and thought that this person was the person, but this person isn't showing you that they're your person. because when you fall in love with everyone, hey, I would prefer not to get married. My boyfriend right now, all he wants to do is talk about getting married.

I will marry him because it's so important to him because I love him. At some point, I'll do that. Oh, I can't wait. You know? That's going to be so fun. So like, but those are the compromises you make for people that you're in love with.

You don't just have your set of rules and then are intransigent about everything else. You have to meet people in the middle and you're bending over backwards in a relationship where he's not doing the same. And I'm sure you're thinking in your mind right now, well, I didn't list all the things he does for you. It doesn't matter.

If being married for you is that important, then he has to show up in that way for you. And then you can also consider why is marriage so important to you? Maybe it isn't as important as you think, but as long as you feel that way and he's not meeting you halfway, then there really is nothing to talk about.

And yes, going to bed crying and all of that, that doesn't mean you're with the right person. That means you're with the wrong person. So I just have to say, I was with a guy who I was so madly in love with and we were dating for two weeks and we were never apart. And then all of a sudden, one day he just said he panicked and he goes, I need a week away from you. And I was 25 and I was like, OK, and then cried my eyes out for two weeks, like totally sobbing my eyes out, didn't know why he needed time away from me, didn't know what was going on. And then he just showed up at my door after the two weeks was up as if nothing had happened. And I was so happy to see him because I was so in love with him. That is not red flag number one. That is red flag whole relationship because it kept happening over and over again.

We were together for 10 years. Believe me, it happened all the time. And I kept thinking it's a phase. It's a this. I gave it excuses. And I was crying all the time at night, not knowing what was going on. because he had to deal with his own shit. He couldn't deal in a relationship.

You cannot be in a healthy relationship until you have made yourself healthy. Yeah. And that is the truth. And it sounds like this guy needs to make himself healthy. He probably has a lot of separation issues if he's from divorced parents. He needs to get help before he can meet you equally

in this relationship because right now it does not sound equal. And trust me when I say the problems will get bigger. Yeah. Yes. Also, him getting healthy is one thing, but you being in this relationship is also an indicator that you're not very healthy, you know, or as healthy as you can be because you're tolerating this. And you need to stand up for yourself and put your foot down. Like, if this isn't acceptable for you, then it's not acceptable for you. And you have to figure out why you're tolerating it. You said yourself that he's an avoidant and you're an anxious. That means that the dynamic is unhealthy because anxious people should never be with avoidants. They feed off of you. They feed off of your neediness because that's how they perceive it as neediness. You need to get married. You need to have your name on the list. You need me to be committed to you. That dynamic will never shift until you shift it. And staying in the relationship, you won't shift anything. I think what you just said, Chelsea, is the most valuable thing you could say to any woman in a relationship like this. What do you you need to put yourself first? Why are you in this relationship where you're not happy? We never look at that. And I think that's exactly it. Once you start going there, you're going to figure it out for yourself. But don't settle. Yeah.

And just don't confuse you thinking you're in love with someone as the love of your life. You don't know what's coming. I thought that multiple times in my life that I was with the love of my life. And guess what? I wasn't. You weren't. And Juliana, I think you felt that way also. My mother used to always say I'd call her crying in this horrible relationship.

She'd be like, I don't understand you. There's so many men out there. Yeah, I know. And it doesn't feel like that at the point, at the time. You feel like this is your only person. It's your whole world. and it's hard to see beyond the circumstance you're in currently. But I promise you, there are billions of people out there

and you have no idea what's coming your way. When you say to the universe, these are my standards and this is what I'm going to be willing to tolerate, I guarantee you your whole world changes. It'll change. And this is what I want. Write down on a piece of paper what you want and then really be truthful.

Can he give that to you? Because if he can't, I bet you dollars to donuts someone else can. Dollars to donuts. You heard it here first. Haven't heard that in a long time. Thank you for revisiting that phrase, dollars to donuts. So sorry about the bad feedback. I mean, it's not bad feedback.

It's good feedback, but it's not going to be what you want to hear. But keep in touch with us and let us know what happens. Let us know if you made any big moves. Take care of yourself first. Yes, please take care of yourself because you can't rely on another person to do that for you. Good luck. And with that, we'll take a quick break and be right back with Juliana and Chelsea. Other people survive what should have destroyed them.

I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers

who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the pages on the new podcast solita we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman i can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle i chose option b i'm julie pinero and i travel by myself because it's a rare space where i can say yes without asking anyone else first i'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita trading the pity for possibility Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here.

It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy. So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people. Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out. You're not hired just to fill time and space. You're hired to fill the space with you.

You have something in your guts. You go with it. And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one. He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood. He hadn't been on a plane before without his family. It was so pure.

Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Well, Juliana, do you have any advice you'd like to get from Chelsea? I do. Medical advice?

It's medical-ish. Dr. Chelsea Handler, so I read your book and I was really fascinated by the ayahuasca chapter. Oh, yeah? Also because I've had a few friends who have done it and who have told me about it. Now, I am not a person, I've never been good on pot. I've tried. All my friends who do gummy, they're like, you haven't had the right kind.

Every time I do it, it just doesn't bode well with me. But the idea of ayahuasca kind of intrigues me. So I want to ask you, one, would you do it again? Two, would you advise someone who has not, like I've never done acid. I don't like tripping, really. Right. I don't like being not in control. Like, what I love about having a margarita is I know I can have two, and that's my limit.

And then I drink some water, and I'm fine. You know, like, I can monitor that. I don't like being—I get scared to be out of control, but I think it would be really good for me. And what you described about you and your sister on the beach together, I thought, oh, my God, I want to see where my trip goes. Yeah. What would you say to someone who's never tried it? Honestly, knowing you as I know you, I would say you're a pretty healthy person and that you're pretty even keeled and stable. And I would say that you don't need to do something like that.

I would say that that is for people who are really searching and are really haven't resolved any of their childhood trauma. And I feel like you have and that you are in a good state of mind. And while it can open up doors and bring you to different places, I don't think it's worth the anxiety of leading up to it, being a type A personality like you are. I don't think it's worth it. There's vomiting involved. People shit their pants. You're throwing up in a bucket.

There's a shaman. It can be very intense. And with somebody who doesn't have a tolerance for drugs, it's not necessary. Like I would say it if you were really in a bad place or you needed to get clarity on something, but I feel like you have a lot of clarity and you are in a really good place and I just would say it's unnecessary. Dr. Chelsea, I feel so relieved that I don't have to go down that path. Let's put this on the record. If for the first time I'm advising somebody to not do drugs, well, actually this isn't the first time, but I have to be honest with you because you just don't need it. Okay, great.

You really don't. I love that answer. I really was expecting something else. Yeah, I wouldn't, you know what, to tell you the truth, I don't think I'll do it again either. I mean, I've always had groups of girlfriends that want to do these ayahuasca retreats and I always say I'll do it. But if I hadn't been doing it on camera, I wouldn't have done it either because I, you know, it is, it was a beautiful experience and I'm just going to leave it at that. I don't need to tempt my fate again. I love it. Thank you. I'm not going to, that's one thing checked off my list. Don't have to do it. I really appreciate it. You are an absolute delight. I just love you. I adore you. You're such a you're such a positive and ebullient person to have around. And I just love seeing you every time I get to see you. Thank you. So I'm so psyched that you're on the podcast and that we got to do in a person.

I'm so just listeners, just so you know, I listened to Chelsea's podcast since its inception while I was alone in my kitchen in lockdown cooking. It felt so good to hear people I love and respect and can make me laugh. and I literally text Chelsea after almost like I'll listen to an episode and I'll text her I'm like oh my god you had so and so on so I'm a huge fan you know that and I love being here thank you and make sure you read Sunshine Girl and you can always find Juliana on the morning show currently and then you can just go back and rent all of the Good Wife what's that on Hulu you don't have to rent it I'm sure it's on somewhere I'm sure yeah Netflix yeah Netflix Netflix is how they're pronouncing it now. But thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. It was a blast. So if you'd like to ask Chelsea a question, email us at DearChelseaProject at gmail.com.

I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show we've had a lot of great guests like sarah sherman adam scott danny mcbride ben stiller and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be

where they are without us listen to hollywood handbook on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts on the new podcast solita we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast

that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Turturro. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, The Longest Yard, or Spike Lee's

Black Klansman. And on my new podcast, Delivering Happiness with Nick Turturro, I deliver pizza to a new guest. I've shared a slice with everyone,

from Seth Rollins. What are you doing with my belt? To Bill Burr. I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am.

And now we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Turturro. It's called happiness, delivering happiness and many, many more. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search delivering happiness with Nick Turturro and listen now. This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.