Life with Nat - EP113: Reflecting on Grief #2

Episode Date: May 4, 2025

Nat, Linny and Debbie are back diving deep into the highs and lows of coping with loss. Please be warned that along with all the expectations of a conversation about death, there is also discussion about how tough it is to lose someone through suicide. As with episode 10, we promise, just like life itself, it isn't all gloom x The charity Debs mentioned, Winston's Wish can be found here - https://winstonswish.org/ Griefcast is currently on a break, but there are 190 episodes of beautiful life affirming conversation here - https://cariadlloyd.com/griefcast Please subscribe, follow, and leave a review. xxx You can find us in all places here; ⁠https://podfollow.com/lifewithnat/view⁠ INSTA: @natcass1 A 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: ⁠[e-mail]⁠ SHOW INFO: Life with Nat - it’s me! Natalie Cassidy and I’ll be chatting away to family, friends and most importantly YOU. I want to pick people's brains on the subjects that I care about- whether that’s where all the odd socks go, weight and food or kids on phones. Each week I will be letting you into my life as i chat about my week, share my thoughts on the mundane happenings as well as the serious. I have grown up in the public eye and have never changed because of it. Life with Nat is the podcast for proper people. Come join the community. ♥️ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Life with Nat. I hope everyone's doing really, really well. Well, tonight me and Auntie Lynnie have got a bit of a surprise for you. We've decided to go back and revisit our grief pod, haven't we Lynne? Lynne We have. It was super popular, wasn't it? And... Kate So popular. Lynne Well, and proving to be popular this time around because the volume of voice notes and text messages has completely overwhelmed me.

Kate Yeah, we decided last week or so to do another one and I put a little message out online to say that we were doing it and we really, yeah. Inundated. Yeah, inundated. So tonight, there's no way we can get through all of them. All I've done is pick a few different subjects, none are better than any others. So I've just picked a few. I've got you all in a folder and it's obvious that this is a subject that people feel passionate about talking about. So we really will revisit again. Yeah. So in advance, we apologise if your message doesn't get read out or your voice note, because

genuinely we have listened to most of them. We have. And there has been a hell of a lot. So we will revisit this pod, the grief pod and hopefully we can get as many out as we possibly can because they are all of the same importance. Of course they are and thank you. Thanks for all of us. Yeah, massively. We wouldn't be able to do it without you. If you remember, the first grief pod we did, we spoke to a lovely listener of mine, Debs. And since the grief pod, we've all kept

in touch with Debs. We messaged Debs and it's just really lovely. It's another friendship that has grown from the pod. And I am happy to say that tonight, Debs has only bloody joined us at my house. Yes, I've bloody had. Welcome, Debs, to the pod room. Welcome. Thank you for having me. It's an honour. Thank you very much for asking me. It's lovely to meet you, Lynnie. And you too, Deb.

And obviously you, Natalie. So thank you. It's an honour to be asked back again. Oh, she's beautiful in the flesh, I must say. She's a bit of a stunner. She is, indeed. Loving the makeup. Yeah. You need to go to Specs over. Or other opticians. Thank you. They're lovely bins as well actually. Thank you. Lovely Specs over there. Yeah so the first time around you'd lost your friend. Yes. And we got you on to have a chat. And we just got on, didn't we?

We did, yeah. We all sort of... Yeah, just we gelled, yeah. Gelled and clicked and... You just sort of... It's weird though, isn't it? I think some people might listen and think, that's a bit weird Natalie's invited a listener to her home. Do you know what I mean? People could think that is a bit weird, but you know if someone's genuine. That's very kind of you. Cut to stalking me next week. I mean, people could think that is a bit weird, but you know if someone's genuine.

That's very kind of you. Cut to stalking me next week. But I do think you get a gut feeling. Yeah. Don't you? Thank you. And you've been lovely, Deb. You've made the effort to keep in touch.

Yeah. And as we said on our last pod, we love all your grocery and all that you've done for the babies as well. It's very sweet. It's lovely. And as I say, it was lovely to talk about Catherine and it's an honour to come back. So thank you for having me. That's a pleasure.

And sadly, that's what we've all got in common, I guess. Yeah. We've all experienced. Yeah. A lot of grief. Yeah. And for everybody who sent in voice notes, you know, we'll go through some. I'm going to start with a message first of all, because we've got to get through some of these.

Hi Nat, I just wanted to send a message to say how much I love your podcast. I've been listening since day one and it means more to me than you'll probably ever know. I started listening not long after my mum passed away. It was such a dark, lonely time for me and hearing your voices honestly felt like being with family. I don't have many friends and I suffer with social anxiety so my mum truly was my best friend and losing her shattered my world. Your episode about grief really hit home for me. I've listened to it a few times now. It brings me comfort knowing I'm not alone in how I feel. Grief doesn't ever really go away, does it? You just somehow learn to live with it,

even though it's the hardest thing in the world. It's been just over a year since I lost mum, and I still can't get my head around the fact I'll never see her again. Some days it still doesn't feel real. It's my little brother's wedding this weekend, a beautiful, happy occasion, but it's also so painful knowing mum won't be there with us.

She should be there proud as anything. The ache of her absence is very heavy. I just wanted to say thank you both for being so real, warm and honest. You've brought me more comfort than you could ever imagine. And I genuinely feel like I'm sitting with two aunties having a couple when I listen. Please keep doing what you're doing.

It really does make a difference. Lots of love from Lauren. Oh, Lauren. It's lovely. It's lovely. Yeah, no, It's lovely. It's lovely. Yeah, it's lovely. What a lovely message, Lauren. And I hope this pod gives you equally as much comfort as the first one.

Absolutely. And I thought what was lovely about what Lauren said, and what I'd like to touch on with it, is events. Big milestones in life, and you miss those people being there. And what Lauren, you will find is at the moment moment you're missing your mum for you and the experience of what you're going through, weddings, christenings, babies being born, whatever the occasion may be that's so special. But in time, your grief, your upset, your pain, your hurting will be for your mum because she's the one that's missing out on these events. That's what I felt. I felt when I first got married, I was upset for me because mum hadn't been gone that long. But then when my children arrived and they were having their Christenings and all the event, the birthdays, all the parties you

have, I felt sad for my mum because I felt she had missed out on so much. Which is why now I embrace everything the girls do with the children. If they say they're going to the park and do you want to come home? I'm there. Even if I don't want to go because I want to be part of all of it. Do you think that is why you're quite heightened? Massively. You know, you say, Natalie, you know, you do so much, you're running around. I am compensating. Yes.

For what I didn't have. Yeah. I don't want my children to experience what I didn't have. So if I can do what I can, like babysitting on Wednesday night for Frankie, babysitting Friday night for Ruby and Alfie, that's what I do. That's what I'll do That's what I do. But I want to do the nice things, you know, going to the park, the farm, even feeding the ducks. It doesn't matter how...

It's memory, isn't it? It's building memory. It's interesting you say that. You've lost your parents. No, I haven't. Sorry, Deb. No, you've got your parents. They're still here. They're not judging on me. They're still here. Yeah.

No, I can't repair them. No, no, that's fine. Absolutely. No, they're elderly. Yeah. They're still here. Yeah. No, no, that's fine. Absolutely, no, they're elderly. Yeah, they're still here. You've still got them. Yeah. It's interesting with mum, I would say it's so different, mum and dad, the grief I have for both of them.

It's crazy how different it is. That's interesting. Oh, it's so different. With dad, it's just a hole and I just miss him. I don't think about him missing out because he wasn't that type of guy. He didn't like company. He didn't. He wasn't the life and soul of the pot.

Granddad would have loved being at this birthday. A load of rubbish. Yeah. You missing him. It's me missing him. Not your mum. No. So with my mum, it's the same as you.

Right. I feel annoyed that she's not met my kids. She's missed out. Yeah. I feel annoyed that she's not met my kids. I feel annoyed that she's not seen all the kids. Whereas it's funny, isn't it? That's again something I think that's so interesting. Everybody's grief is different for whoever you have lost. It's unique, isn't it, to each person. How are you feeling after, you know, the last time you spoke? Yeah, it's been two years now and I think part of it is however difficult we feel, whether

they're, like you say, Lyn, weddings, christenings, you know, university, all those big things that that person is missed, you have to dig so deep within yourself. And that's one of the hardest things I think you'll ever find you have to do. Because that person is really with you. And although they're not physically there, they're with you in your heart, in your memories, in your stories. And as much as it is a physical pain, it is a physical pain that loss, you know, I remember with Catherine particularly, that absolute physical, is this pain ever going to stop? You know, will it, when will it stop? And I think it is digging so deep to find that they will be with you, they'll be with you through memories, through the love,

through the stories, through the funny times. But it's something that you have to, grief is tapping you on the shoulder all the time, it doesn't go away. Talking about tapping you on the shoulder, I'm going to share a little story that I haven't shared before. It's quite a personal story, you'll remember. Dad died four years ago last week in terms of when we're recording. And every time it comes to the 24th of April, and around this time, around this, I'm hoping for a couple of birds to pick at the window. And I have never seen it happen since he died. When my dad died, I was laying in bed with that pain that you are talking about, that physical hurt. And I could hear

and I thought, what the fuck is that? And I was in bed and it didn't stop. It was persisting and persisting and persisting. It was from downstairs. And I went downstairs and I went into the lounge and there was a large bird. Was it a pheasant then? I remember you saying it. It wasn't a grouse. I thought it was a grouse, but he drank famous grouse, so that would have been weird. It was a pheasant. Oh, Elia's going to kill me. Was it a peasant? Anyway, one of them, a game bird. And it was stood at the bifold door, banging on the window.

Banging, banging, banging. And it was if, honestly, it was my dad saying, get out of bed and get on with it. And then as it turned, the bird, I sound like a loony, I know that, but as it turned round on my life, another one was stood on the grass as if it was bossing him around and he followed it and the two of them went off. And I think that was my mum and dad. Yeah, I believe all this. I know it's strange and the other day I mentioned it to Mark and Mark went, I've seen him again in the garden. I said, oh, you haven't told me Mark and Mark went I've seen him again in the garden. I said oh you haven't told me, you know I've seen him

he don't believe in it but I said well I haven't and I've never heard anything pecking that the... Did that give you comfort, huge comfort? Huge comfort. I've got the video I'll put it on Instagram for everyone to see. What idea of? Of the birds. Yeah it's mad I'll show you after but that takes me on to signs. Have you ever had any signs for people? Because people have robins, don't they? And feathers and different things. And I just wonder, because we've got a lovely message here, but I just wonder from you two, do you remember any signs or feel anything that you just take comfort from in nature?

The only thing I've never had the signs, nothing like that. I've never had feathers, I've seen feathers but I can't say, oh my god, that's, I have a robin that visits but I don't think, oh my god, that's my dad, my mum. No, no. I'll be honest. The only thing for me, and other people may relate to this, when someone passes and they leave behind, I don't know, a young child, like we were young, or then grandchildren arrive of that person that's passed, then all of a sudden, you see that person in their

child or their grandchild to a level where it freaks me out. I couldn't agree more with you. Like I remember when I was, so as I said on the last pod, I was just 16 when my mum died. I used to scare myself in the mirror. I'd look in the mirror and I'd think, oh my god, my mum looking back at me. How weird is that? Whereas when she was with me, when she was alive, I didn't see it. And people would all say, oh my god, you're the spit of your mum. I used to think, yeah, I know. Even my hands, my mannerisms, the way I laugh, I used to think my mum used to do this. And now I see it in my grandchildren like Ruby, when Ruby arrived and how Ruby is now, she's sassy, she's got personality, she's cheeky.

It's like looking at my mother-in-law, Natalie's mum. She is the soul of my mum. No, no, no. It's all, and if you want to go really deep, Evelyn's mum. So Natalie's nan. Nanny Liz, yeah. Wow. And it's the weirdest thing.

It's even the way she looks though. Yeah, she does all the faces, she pulls all the expressions. I'm like, and Dave said it straight away, he said, that's my mum. I went, I'm not. We both had the same thought and we hadn't voiced it. And then Dave said it, he goes, that's my mum. And James, Elias James, who looks nothing like my dad, I don't think, does he? Do you think he does now?

I think sometimes. A bit of a resemblance. Yeah. But what James does that freaks me out is when he looks at you, he stares right into your soul and he gives me this massive big smile and I just see my dad smiling back at me. That's what I've, that's what I, that's the comfort I get. I agree with you. And it's so real. I'm not exaggerating it. I'm not.

No, that's how you feel. Yes, incredible. Absolutely. I haven't had any signs as much as I would love to. I haven't. But the biggest thing is seeing a daughter, a son, that is the image of that person that you've lost. Katherine's got two children and her eldest daughter is her double. Really? So when I see her, that is Katherine. And it's enough for me. So yeah, no signs, unfortunately.

This is a nice message we got from somebody about signs. Hi Nat, it's Karen here from Bath. I lost my mum 12 years ago this month and as time goes on I remember her every day but it does get slightly easier as you all know yourself. I just wanted to talk about the significance of finding things around us, as in some people will see robins, some people will see white feathers, etc. I was very skeptical about this before I lost my mum, but now I can definitely say there's something in it. I was literally at her grave last weekend, walked over the same little patch of grass that I do every time, and I always scour that patch of grass for anything significant. Her thing was always to be deadheading the garden or weeding and I decided subconsciously to that day that I would do some weeding around her grave.

I did this for approximately 10 minutes. There was no animals around, no birds around, nothing. And as I turned around to leave, there was a lovely white fluffy feather sat in the middle of this little patch of grass that I had literally just walked across. I was okay visiting the grave until I saw this and then obviously I did crumble a bit when I saw the feather but I also took incredible comfort from it too. So thank you to those above that are sending us these little signals to let us know they're watching over us. Lots of love, Karen. Thank you so much, Karen.

Yeah. It's lovely. So lovely, isn't it? Yeah. The other thing I wanted to touch on tonight, which I think is really important, and we'll obviously go back to losing people, but I've had a lot of messages about people's grief with pets, with animals, and how some people feel really embarrassed about the pain they feel because they've lost an animal. I've got a couple of rabbits, don't get me wrong, and I used to have a cat, I haven't got a dog.

But I get that. They're a part of the family. Now I'm going to move over. Have you got a pet? Have you got an animal? I haven't, but you've just hit a chord with me. My growing up at home, dad had a cocker spaniel and he was my dad's bestest, bestest friend. And when Duke died, my dad just completely went into proper, proper room. It was so sad to see my dad like that. And he had him cremated and he brought his ashes home. And they're in the front room in a little box. And they're going to stay there.

And when the inevitable happens to dad, my dad wants duke's ashes with him. And although we do take the piss sometimes about that, he misses that dog, it was his pal. So I don't take it as anything other than if you love something, a pet, a person, albeit power to you, you know. I absolutely agree with you. You've got to appreciate that a pet is solely reliant on you. Children grow up, become adults, more independent. Your dog, like Betsy's 13 now, I've had her 13 years, bear in mind I didn't want a dog because they're a responsibility but the girls wanted a dog. Can we get a dog? Sam, can we get a dog? We'll have it, we'll look after it.

Come to the pet shop, you haven't got to buy one, just come and have a look at them, they're so cute. And then we end up going home, thankfully only with one because I think we nearly ended up with three of them. But Betsy's my best friend. Oh, bless you. She really is my best friend. And when we took, and I do remember bringing her home and Elia just instantly obviously fell in love with her. And Elia's first words that came out of her mouth,

she's only a puppy, she went, oh, what are we gonna do when she dies? We'd only had her like two hours. That was her first fault. But I have that fault often now because I know she's already on borrowed time. She's 13. I mean, hopefully I'll have it till she's 16, 17. But it will be the strangest thing because they are with you all the time. It's unconditional love.

They just they are and I told I would, to be honest, prior to having a dog, I'm not sure I would have fully understood. I would be compassionate. My work colleague lost his dog and he literally had to lock himself away for a couple of days. And for the reason that Natalie has just explained, because I think you feel embarrassed that you're emotional or upset or crying or grieving because of an animal. And at the time, I understood it to a fashion because I'm close with him, but now I completely get it. And that is one of the reasons why I don't want a dog. Oh no, because it's more lost. You're inflicting more pain on yourself.

No, I get it. It's more pain. Who needs this? I'm already preparing myself. Isn't that bad? But is that selfish? No, my dad won't ever have another dog. And I wish I used to say a few years down the

line as they're getting old, get yourself another dog. Go over Ali Pali. You know, get you out. And my dad went, no way. There's no way I can go through that loss again. It hurts. Yeah. Yeah. I'll play the message that someone sent in regarding pets. Hi Nat. I've just seen your Instagram post about grief. I must say I loved your first episode. I loved the one with all your family recently,

but I just wanted to touch on another part about grief and it's not just people. I mean, I've lost a couple of pets over the last, well, one on the 28th of February this year, Boxer Buster went sadly to cancer. also, I had a French bulldog that I lost during the pandemic. Yeah, that broke me. I mean, I've lost people in my life and obviously that upset me. But animals, you know, I think sometimes that's forgotten. And I don't think I'll ever get over losing my Bailey during the pandemic. that destroyed me and it took me months and months

and months. And the only way I really got over that was by getting another French Bulldog and we did pick up another boxer actually this Sunday, our new little George. But pets play a massive part in people's lives and you know grief when we lose our pets and especially if they're older people and you know their pet is their companion you know they might have already lost their wife or their husband and they may not have any other family and that pet is their life. It's their support network. So when grief touches them when they lose a pet, it can be equally as devastating.

So whilst I agree losing a person, be it a mum, a dad, a brother, sister, uncle, aunt, you know, nan or granddad, pets can play a massive part in the grief as well. And I think that's also a process. So I don't know if you maybe you want to touch on that as well. But keep going, love the pod, love all the individual ones of your family and scraping the brow with Mark as well. Yeah, just keep doing what you're doing that. We love it. Bye. Oh, thank you so much. And it's true. That's why I did. I wanted to play that and touch on it because I'm not forgetting and I don't belittle anyone's grief. Doesn't matter what it's about. You've also got a list as long as your arm of people getting divorced. That is a loss.

People losing their jobs. Yeah, it is It is. It's all types of grief. I think all of them are as important. Absolutely. Because they're emotional and you've got to learn to deal with them. You've got to be strong and learn to live with this thing and emotion that you've not done before. No. I'm going to play another one now. This is about suicide, so if anybody feels uncomfortable

with listening to this, maybe just dull the pod down for maybe four or five minutes. Thanks. Hi now and that's family. My name is Sarah and I live in Worcester. I love your pod because you're normal and talk about normal things. We're normal. A little bit. Yay. Not Dubai and the Maldives and all that stuff. 23 years ago I lost my older brother. I was only 18 at the time to suicide. And even though it was a long time ago, it does really affect my life now. I've got two teenage sons. So obviously, I worry about their mental health a lot more than I probably would have done

if that what happened with my brother had never happened kind of thing. And I also really struggle with catastrophizing everything. So if somebody's late home, I always think something's happened to them or if one of my kids is a bit quiet, I worry a bit too much about what's going on with them. But you get on with it. You learn as you get older and you go through life that

a lot of people are the same. And I just, the saddest thing for me now is seeing what it did to my mum. She's nearly 80. She'll be 78 this year. And obviously it was her son that she lost. And I don't think as a parent you ever get over that. All we can do is learn from it, make sure we do listen when people try and say that they're struggling and just enjoy the memories that you've got. You know with suicide it's hard because you always wonder if you could have done more but sometimes you just can't. Thanks for always making me smile though. Bye! Bless her. That's interesting that because

my first marriage, two children, we divorced, we divorced amicably, friendly, but unfortunately, Neil took his own life 16 years ago. And I can relate to Sarah because I suppose there's different types of grief, if that makes sense, because I think with suicide, you don't know the reason why necessarily. And I think that opens up a whole huge avenue of emotions in yourself. And I quite understand as well with, I had two sons that lost their dad. My advice to Sarah, even now, you know, you worry about your children. But at the time, my advice would be to really do reach out to, we reached out to a charity called Winston's Wish, which deals with bereaved children.

And they were amazing for us as a family. They go into school, they'll support your children. And also, I think, with suicide, as difficult as it is, with children, try to tell them the truth as gentle as you can be, rather than keep things away from them, because they'll make up their own story in their head. They might think it's their fault. So, yeah, I would reach out. And we're in a society these days where we can talk about everything, can't we? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, whether it's a pod, whether it's a charity you can reach out to,

whether you go and get some counseling, dig deep, you know. It's brave to dig deep because it's difficult to dig deep. But I would advise people to really dig deep and get that help out there. Debs, I'm so sorry that you've been through that because obviously me and Lynne didn't know about that. Not at all. You've been through a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you have to be grateful for what you have got. And I think all those avenues that you go down does bring you to look around what you've got in front of you.

It is true. I think me and Lyn, we always say that, don't we? Oh, I totally believe in that. Whatever happens to you in life, it's taking you where you're meant to be. There's a reason for that, whatever it is. We said on one of our many pods where we're strong women, we're independent, we're probably the hub of our homes. Probably that stems from because we lost our mums young.

Yeah, I think so. So it was either sink or swim, as we've said before, and we decided to swim. What I'd like to ask Debs, because obviously I know a lot of people that have experienced similar grief to you in terms of losing children, partners through suicide. our situation was it came out of the blue. So, your first question is, why? And also, Neil's mum was alive and this happened.

She had four children. She lost two children, one to suicide and one to cancer. But she always, bless her, wished, did I do something wrong? Could I have done more? Did I fail as a parent? Did I do enough? And this is the problem, isn't it? And that opens up- Suicide. Yes. The people that are left behind.

Absolutely. And then having to deal that are left behind. Absolutely. They don't know how to deal with all the guilt. Yes. Winston's Wish sounds fantastic. Winston's Wish. I will put a link up on there to this pub. In fact, I'm going to do a bit of homework. I'll get our superstar Emma to put some charities up. I'll have a look. Bereavement, charities, you know, different things, but Winston's Wish sounds fantastic. Yeah, they're cool.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they're really good. Hi Nat, I'm so thrilled you're doing another Grief podcast. I just had to voice note in. Love, love, love the podcast. It keeps me company on the school runs whilst I'm so thrilled you're doing another grief podcast. I just had to voice note in love, love, love the podcast. It keeps me company on the school runs whilst I'm cleaning and even working out when I do when you can be bothered a bit like me, Nikki. Thanks so much for being a friendly voice keeping me company. Much love, Nikki from Eastbourne and here's her. Hi ladies, it's Nikki here from Eastbourne. Longtime listener, first time voice

noter, so bear with me. I just want to say first of all that I love the podcast and The Last Grief Ep was one of my faves. So when you mentioned you were doing another one I just thought I had to voice note in. I lost my dad suddenly back in 2015. He suffered a major heart attack and one minute he was there and the next he wasn't. Since then I've had a miscarriage, lost my granddad at the height of Covid and then had to deal with the death of my big brother after a short and horrible battle with bowel and brain cancer. The last 10 years have been a walk in the park, let's say.

What I've found though is that these losses have taught me so much about the fragility of life. It's just too bloody short, isn't it? My dad was 61 when he died and my brother was 42. And it's made me want to make sure I'm living my life to the full as much as possible. So, last year I finally left a job that I'd fallen out of love with and studied to become a life coach and a grief coach. My aim now is to use my experience to help empower others to move with their grief and honour their loved ones and live a life that they can be proud of. The added bonus is that it's given me more time to spend with my family and friends, which is bloody lovely. So my question for you ladies is, in what way, if any, has your grief empowered you to make positive changes in your

lives? I'd be interested to hear. Thanks so much again for the podcast. It's so great. Speak soon. Lovely message. So nice. Yeah, really lovely. What a strong, strong woman. I think this is what it does to people, doesn't it? That you go one way or the other don't you? And women generally are very strong species we are talking about. I think so. I think I've already said what my changes are. I think the changes, yeah, I think you get stronger. My outlook personally, I'm a very positive person, I'm very grateful. I want to get up every day and do the

best I can. I like being kind to people. I don't waste my time on jealousy or being horrible about people or talking about people. I've got no time for it. I just want to improve my life, improve my family's life and get on as much as I can and make people happy. That's my answer to that really. Absolutely. And, you know, supporting others, you know, suicide, unfortunately, affects quite a lot of people. And in the job I'm in, lots of young people have lost their, whether it be a mum or a dad. So for me, being able to support those children and there is light at the end of the tunnel. You know, there is light at the end of the tunnel, albeit you might think

there isn't. I can promise you there is, but please go out there and get the help that you want and need and talk. You know, we're in a society, as I said, where we talk all the time now, which is great. That's free to talk too much. Reach out. Reach out for help and advice. Absolutely. Here's an interesting one. It's anonymous. This person would like our advice. My mum lost her mum at 18. They were very close, but she rarely speaks about her and I don't know how to bring it up. I know very little about her and had no idea, for example,

her birthday or the day she died. My mum and I are super close, like she's my closest friend, but I don't know how to bring it up. I'd be interested on your thoughts on this. So it's her nan who she's never met. Isn't it interesting because I talk about my mum, maybe not so much now perhaps, but to the children. I would always talk about her like I made her part of our lives. It was different with my dad because the children met my dad, but the children never met my mother. And I do the same. Yes, I kind of keep her memory alive.

My kids will say didn't only Eve like that. But it just shows some people are not comfortable with that. My brothers always at the beginning they would like cringe a little bit when I used to talk about mum as though she was still here but now over the period of time they've got used to it because I do it regularly. Yes. That's oh you've still got that that's mum it because I do it regularly as well. Yes. Oh, you've still got that.

That's mum's ornament, isn't it? Oh, she loved that. And I'll just talk about her like it's, they're more comfortable with it. Yeah. It's a difficult one because obviously, clearly her mother. Maybe she's just,

too much pain. It's exactly that. Too pain. But maybe the ladies, maybe her mum is worried about uplifting. What it may do to her. To her. And it might be just nice maybe to, I don't know, get some photos out and just gently say, talk to me. Or even maybe just, or even just like trivial things.

Yeah. me or even maybe just or even just like trivial things. You could be looking at, I don't know, dresses and colors and she could just turn around and say, what color did Nan like? I agree. And then that's kind of just out of the blue. Yeah, gentle. Or even something like that question, what color did Nan like? Sorry, I'm saying then, do you think she would have like been called Nan or Nanny or Grandma? And then it opens up.

And it just opens a conversation. Clearly her mum is, it's a fear, isn't it? It's a fear of the pain, resurrecting a pain that her mum has tried to bury. And for some people, it's not everybody wants to talk. No. In fact, I've received counselling for many years and I still touch base with my counsellor. She always used to talk about sediment, saying that word sediment, that it sits in a glass at the bottom, doesn't it? And we kind of manage that grief. It sits at the bottom, we carry on with life. But when it shook slightly. It starts to raise to the top. And those again, those feelings that don't ignore them. Like I said, grief will come knocking. You can't work through

it. You can't drink yourself through it. You have to immerse yourself. And if you have a sad day, my counselor would say to me, Debbie, let it wash over you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're feeling sad today, just be sad. Just be sad. Don't fight it. Don't fight it. You can't fight it. No. So you've got to immerse yourself in it.

As I say, get the help and work through it. Dig deep. You're counselling, is this because of your friend? Partly, you know, we've had a lot of upset in the family and partly because of my friend, but gone back to Neil when he did what he did. And you know what, just life, I think sometimes talking to someone that's not part of the family. Absolutely. You can say exactly what you want to say without being judged.

Or thinking, yeah, or minding what you're going to say. And it's, I'm 56 and I started my counselling around 50, got to a point where I thought I need to talk to someone. So this wasn't just bereavement? No, no. Okay. And it's the best thing I've ever, ever done. Because it's given me the tools to actually not bother about what other people think

and deal with life, be happy with what you've got, dig deep and love the people around you that surround you. I had some counseling when dad died. Yeah. Couple of years after, should have had it sooner. And then also I think you're dealing with the grief of mum because that's happened. So that all rises to the top again. Like you said, it's a great way of looking at it with the sediment visually.

And I loved it. It really, really helped me. I think in this day and age, like you said, if you need to go to the doctors, if you need to say you're not feeling good about whatever it is, it's madness not to do that now. In this day and age, you have to do what you need to do to feel better. If a car don't work, you take it to the garage. It's amazing what things are out there for us. We should use them.

I did mine privately because I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford to do it and I know it's a hard thing to get counselling somehow just like that. I know it's hard but you know, there are sort of different avenues and if you are feeling low you should explore them. But even these pods are like counselling, I mean I've never been to counselling so I don't know what it entails, I don't quite understand how it works, I can't pass any judgment on it but I love to talk so and people like... You make a good counsellor.

No, yeah, it's something I've all, do you know what, it's something I really have thought about genuinely but these pod accounts, you know, this is what people have now, you can just, if you don't want to go and talk to someone you could just plug your ears in, listen to a pod like this or like we said before, there was so many grief. Oh, there's loads of lovely grief pods out there. Really, I always mention it and I'll mention it again. I hope it hasn't stopped because I haven't looked for ages, but it's Griefcast. Right. Grief.

And it's a great pod and it's funny and that's the other thing. It's not just small beat. It's not down. And I hope you've not found this downbeat but you know we are talking about things that are serious you know but we have a laugh as well you've got you know you've got to have a laugh and sometimes out of the darkness comes the funniest things. Sometimes it's just nice to know that other people have gone through or are going through exactly what you've been through. You're not on your own and we've survived it and you will too. It's just, as you said earlier, you've just got to go with it. If you're

having a down day, if you're feeling crap, if you're missing that person, if you want to have a cry, if you want to just go and sit at their grave all day, if that's what you need to do, then you just do it. There's no right, there's no wrong way, it's your way. As cliché as it is, time actually is a healer. You just learn to live with it. You learn to live with it. You know how to live with it, you do. Here's another voice note for us. Hi Nat, I saw your message about doing a second pod about grief, so I thought I'd send a message. This year was 16 years since I lost my dad to cancer and as much as it gets easier

sometimes, sometimes it still feels really raw especially around the anniversary of his passing and on his birthday which is coming up. I talk about him all the time obviously he died 16 years ago so he never met my husband and my daughter. So I'm always talking about him and talking about things that he liked and things that we used to do together to try and keep him alive really. Some days are harder than others. I'd be lying if I said I don't still cry. I do get emotional and I miss him every day as you can tell by my voice. But yeah, I just try and think of the positives and how fortunate that I am that I got to have

those years with him. He was a great role model and I feel really privileged because I know a lot of people don't have the support of parents. So anyway, I love your pod. Keep doing what you're doing. I need to catch up with the anniversary one, which I can't wait because I've seen all your bits on Instagram and lots of love. Oh yeah, I'm Sam and I'm from Hampshire. Thanks. Thank you so much, Sam. And you know what? That 16 years gone by and that emotion's still raw and all that means is you are so lucky to have a dad that you love so much. Just took the words out of my mouth, Sam you're so lucky because not everybody gets that.

Everybody necessarily has that relationship with their parents and clearly because I feel the same as you Sam and I think of my dad, it brings a smile to my face, but then it pulls at the heartstrings because he was a lovely soul and he did right by us. And it makes me feel tragically sad, but then we were blessed because, you know, not everyone can say that about their parents. So just enjoy those thoughts and feelings and emotions you have about him. You're a very lucky girl. And that's what we have about him. You're a very lucky girl. And that's what we have to remember. We're all very lucky.

The more it hurts, the more your relationship meant something. So much. Absolutely. And it's horrible. But the more painful it is. It tells you how that's the love. Yeah. Yeah.

That is the love. This is the last message before we sign off. Your last grief episode was one of my favourite episodes of the pod. Sounds weird, but it was refreshing to hear people talk about how it really is. I have since lost my dad, having previously lost my mum 12 years ago. I really related to you speaking about your mum and dad passing and also being the youngest with siblings with a big age gap. I will definitely be listening to the next one. Thank you so much, Yvonne, for that message. Thank you, Debs, for coming to join us. It's been so lovely.

Thank you for having me. It's been really, really lovely. Lyn, as always. A pleasure. There's so much to get through. And I wanted to do as many messages as possible. Everybody, I hope you've really, really enjoyed it. I hope it brings you comfort. Keep sending your messages. We will do another one. It's obviously a really popular subject, if you can call it that. Yeah, it is. Is it something that no one is going to escape, unfortunately?

No, no. Absolutely. This experience. But lovely to meet, unfortunately? No, no. Absolutely. This experience. But lovely to meet you, Deb. Lovely to meet you. Thanks for coming up. Thank you. It's been lovely.

God bless. Well done. God bless everybody and have a fantastic rest of the week and I will speak to you very, very soon. Lots of love. 0778 20 1919. Remember to follow, subscribe and tell your friends about us and I'll speak to you soon.

See ya, bye. Bye.