Life with Nat - EP19: THE PRIDE EP 🌈🌈🌈

Episode Date: June 23, 2024

Nat and Em celebrate pride month with Heather Peace, Riley Carter and Daryl- the listener who asked for Nat to do this episode! Feel good and truthful and full of love! We really hope you enjoy ☺️ Please subscribe, follow, and leave a review. xxx Hosted by Natalie Cassidy. You can find us in all places here; https://podfollow.com/lifewithnat/view INSTA: @natcass1 A 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] SHOW INFO: Life with Nat - it’s me! Natalie Cassidy and I’ll be chatting away to family, friends and most importantly YOU. I want to pick people's brains on the subjects that I care about- whether that’s where all the odd socks go, weight and food or kids on phones. Each week I will be letting you into my life as i chat about my week, share my thoughts on the mundane happenings as well as the serious. I have grown up in the public eye and have never changed because of it. Life with Nat is the podcast for proper people. Come join the community. ♥️ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Good morning everyone, I hope you've had a fantastic weekend. Happy Monday to you. Today I am celebrating Pride. It is Pride Month and I have many, many friends who celebrate Pride and we all should celebrate Pride.

And I want to talk to people today, friends of mine, who they can tell me what it's like, you know, to be gay, to be proud, to be trans, to be out there. You know, I can sit here and say, oh, yeah, I celebrate Pride. But what is it really like for people who have come out how it affects them you know just in everyday life and i just love to learn from others hi pride month means to me that it brings the whole of the lgbtq plus community all together and it just means we can celebrate for what we have fought for and it's just such a lovely feeling going there to Pride

and just having a good time with everyone there That's lovely, that was from Ethan, thank you so much Ethan. Today we're speaking to three amazing people Heather Peace and Riley Carter and lovely Daryl who's a listener of mine. So Heather

and I are really great friends. She comes over a lot and we put the world to rights and we met on EastEnders. Heather is a gay icon. She's a wonderful singer, pop star if you don't mind. She is a wonderful actress who plays Eve in EastEnders and is having a wonderful relationship. A love story is going on at the moment between her and Suki, which is representing all the gays, lesbians out there. It's just fantastic. And it's really important, actually, for soaps to do things that are issue-based because they touch an audience that no one else can.

So that's great. We're going to be talking to Heather very soon. We are also going to be talking to Riley Carter, who is somebody who I also met on the square. But 10 years later, we're going to have a catch up to see how he is. And he represents trans men in a fantastic way. And we're going to be talking to him about his life and where he is at the moment. And Daryl is a listener who messaged me last week and said, I'm sat here with my husband having a chat. We love you, Natalie. We love the podcast. We also love Sonia. We've grown up with her. Why don't you do an ep

for Pride Month? So it's all down to Daryl that today is happening. And we're going to start with Riley and Heather. Let's let them in. Ding dong. Hello. happening and we're going to start with Riley and Heather let's let them in ding dong hello yay Riley how are you I'm all right how are you I'm good how are you thanks so much for joining me today no thanks for asking me uh it was great to get your message and whatnot especially whilst I'm here added bonus to my to my holiday. Yeah, all right. Don't rub it in. Go on, tell us where you are. Tell everyone. I'm in Bali.

So I went to Dubai first. I'll just add that there as well. And it sounds like I have money. I don't have money, everyone. Just pretending. But Bank of Lloyds, thank you very much. No, so I'm in Bali. I'm in Canggu right now.

I was in Ubud yesterday. Amazing. And I've just moved here. And I go to a different place in four nights. So, yeah. That's amazing. How long is it since we've seen each other? It will be, I don't know, when did I start?

It'll be 10 years next year, which is absolutely mad. That is madness. Yeah, I can't believe that. I'm aware where that time's gone it feels about six months ago my little Heather's joined can you hear me hello hello you're right I was having a panic then you see this is where this is where I do my music so I never know whether it's headphones not headphones I don't know so I just I wanted to have you both on to celebrate pride month and that's it really I have loads and loads of followers who say that I'm a gay icon I don't know why that is I think it's to do with a trumpet and a bridesmaid dress from 1994 uh but know, it doesn't affect me. I haven't been through stuff that you've been through. And I can sit here and say, oh, yeah, I celebrate pride, but it's bullshit. So I

wanted to get you on and talk to you about what it means to you. And that's it, really. Appreciate the honesty. You know me, but it's true, isn't it? We can all go, yeah, oh, yeah, you know, as a straight girl, I really celebrate pride and, you know, I can put up a rainbow poster and whatever, but it doesn't really affect me. And I want to know how it affects you. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, I think Heather, obviously me and Heather have had the pleasure of meeting prior to, you know, our passing across in EastEnders. It was across when, I think it was at the Ivy we first met. And we just ended up having a good chat and whatnot and you know I was just like oh my god it's Heather Peace and you were hearing kind of yes it was lip service and stuff so it's me and my friend were like oh my god yeah but you know the stories

that you were telling me I think you know the very different journeys i mean from how i started my career and what you were you were telling me which i'm sure you'll you'll touch on and whatnot but like me i was welcomed into you know a soap for my character you know my um identity and whatnot and to play that role and to have that representation on screen and it was welcomed and at the time it was a big thing for the UK especially

and for inclusion and representation it's still represented in Emmerdale and Hollyoaks and obviously we've got more representation on Netflix and stuff like that but looking at stats wise actually there's a big decrease in representation over the past two years and it's actually getting

worse and people don't realise it because the broad spectrum people are like oh god there's another trans character or another non-binary but on the scale of things the representation is nowhere near what you think like you're saying the straight people are the ones that aren't you know not again like why we gotta hear

this story you know i mean well it's because of people like like them they're saying it and you know this is what's being kind of this narrative of negativity is being pushed more recently especially because of the government that we have in place you know and that's a big thing that at the minute we're on the brink of and that uncertainty for for trans people lgbtq people just generally um you know so for me my journey kind of you know started when i joined east. I was in uni before that. No one really knew about me. I chose not to say anything.

I got the audition at EastEnders, and it was like I was thrown into this suddenly, everyone knowing who I was and whatnot. And I didn't even know who I was at the time because my gender identity, it's not the only thing about me. You know what I mean? Just like you, Sonia, from EastEnders to everyone, it's not the only thing about me you know i mean like yeah just like you uh sonja

from eastenders to everyone it's not the only thing about you you know it's a lot more to me which i've only recently discovered i think that plays a massive part in i'm going to not say the word journey i've heard you say journey you can say journey if you want it is a journey i just you know you go on my journey no i know i'm joking but like you don't even know yourself fully and i think you never stop kind of growing and transitioning like generally people don't stop transitioning themselves for me i'm only just starting to become more confident you know when you you messaged me and you said it's great to see you so happy and whatnot and obviously this is social media you post like the great parts and to be fair i've had a big

blank space on social media for a while because i've not felt the best especially with what's going on and how we kind of life in the uk is going to change and you know what it could do if the tories are in power again um and, you know, discovering who you are, it's not just as simple as coming out and being accepted. It's about really making sure that you are like Heather is.

You know, you're constantly on TV, you're on screen, you're doing your part behind the scenes and playing that small role. You know, you joke about yourself and, oh, you can put a pride flag up up but that still does make a difference Natalie like because there's many people that that don't and the more people that do and then you see that flag and you see that kind of we stand with you know trans people LGBT community it helps I remember meeting you obviously 10 nearly 10 years ago I can't believe it was nearly 10 years ago and I I my hope is that you know I felt I feel we welcome everybody uh to that show in a really

good way do you know what I mean so it doesn't matter what you are you're welcome with open arms and I remember us having a laugh I remember did you did your character cook a duck bolognese? What was it? It was duck lasagna, yeah. Remember that? Duck lasagna? It was Easter time and people sent me loads of pictures that they'd made at their family homes. That was just like weird. It's the real house.

Very, very strange. People really embody the characters, don't they? Yeah. But yeah, like you said, EastEnders were really welcoming. And I was just very young at that time as well. That was my first ever job, my first ever audition, anything. So me, if I was there again now, it'd be completely different because I'm a different person. You know, it was hard for me, I guess, as well to accept kind of the welcoming and the kind of what I was thrown into.

You know, as someone who was just straight out of uni, having to tell everyone who everyone who I was you know friends finding out that I hadn't even told you know people kind of coming up to me in the street and and being faced with kind of not sure about how they're going to interact with me some were really like just oh you're from EastEnders some were like oh how did you feel playing a trans person I'm like I am trans and they would just go white like uh not know what to say and and then some people you know would make funny comments and whatnot but it's it's one of them like if I was there now it'd be a completely different way of of me I'd probably enjoy it more I think is what I'm trying to say I think at the time even though it was such a special thing it was this whole level of not pressure I don't know

what the best word is to use to describe it but like I was just like shit I'm like representing a minority that actually really needs representation right now and I was like and I'm that person and don't get me wrong I've you know I'm I'm a nice person and I'm I can be articulate although I'm rambling right now you know and I can I can represent in a in a very good way but I think it just in that moment it was a lot it was very surreal you know I mean and I think I've seen so many people do such more since you know my my stint on EastEnders and it's just like great to see and knowing what they're taking on and how they're kind of facing what you know what we are facing

that that kind of confrontation from people who aren't accepting and that you know people who are really trying to push this negative narrative on trans people you know i've got loose women talking about jk rowling thing and you know you can't say anything against her on Twitter or that's it you get lawyers against you and what not so you know you've got to choose your words carefully I guess but people aren't people are like no I'm not taking this kind of black anymore

someone that me and Heather know quite well who's faced a lot of backlash because of you know sticking up for the trans community. And it's just like, it's just horrible that the allies, you know, they get it as well. And this is obviously what we need to try and shift. The stronger that we kind of stay together and unite.

And again, the more representation that there is in media, the more that people, I think it's normalising it. I was going to say that is that what you want just to be normalised yeah like I'm no different like no one knows me in the street you know

people chat to me and you know I'm in Bali right now where it's illegal to be like trans and you can be in prison

for like gay marriage and all that kind of you know what I mean I'm in here and they're all coming up to me and I'm thinking of you know what I mean I'm in here and everyone they're all coming up to me I'm thinking man you don't even know me like if you knew you were talking to a trans person right now like the the balinese men and whatnot they'd probably

freak out but like that's what I'm saying I just want to normalize like these minority groups to see we're all just people like I know it's literally just as simple as that and i wish i did more to be fair i don't really i don't feel like i speak up as much and again i think that's what i'm saying about my lack of presence on social media because i'm fighting my own personal demons of just trying to love myself generally you know i mean the stronger i can be for myself the stronger i can be for others as well and And that's what I'm saying. These people who are represented on TV are strong, you know, and they're doing a lot. And the people that support those people are doing a lot as well. I think it's important to recognize that.

That's what's hard. That balance is trying to be as someone who is trans and obviously yourself, Heather, you know, being a lesbian. And like, you know, you're trying to live your life and and be you and then you're on social media and you see the hate and you want to step away for it for yourself but then i feel the guilt that if i'm not kind of stepping in on no no don't feel the guilt riley you take care of you number one yeah take care of you number one you do not have a responsibility you've already done a massive amount for visibility okay you don't feel okay you just take a step back that's what i've started doing now that's what i started doing because i've been in quite niche shows playing gay before and so i've

escaped a lot of it most people certainly with lip service were already um you know either gay or certainly you won't watch a show like lip service unless do you know what i mean so i i escaped a lot of that and it's only been on east east enders that has opened me up to a bit more of a barrage i turned down more press than i probably should because i'm just i'm just not mentally strong enough to take that barrage some people are and i wish i could be like that don't you worry Riley do never feel guilty my friends never you mustn't feel guilty because you're absolutely you have to look after yourself yeah yeah your mental health and how you feel is the number one priority for

everybody we should all feel like that yeah no I did get it and like I say I keep taking social media breaks and I do definitely feel better when I'm not on it. What I find hard generally just being someone who's trying to continue in acting or whatever. You're not on social media, you're getting lost. And that's also something that's really annoying. It's like trying to find that balance of, you know, life outside of social media and still saying,

hello, I'm here and whatnot. Me right now, it's just more my, I'm buying into like the stereotypes of what a man is. Like I struggle with, sometimes I'm like, you know, I don't care and I'm just me and I do what I want and I don't care if that's associated with being feminine or whatever else. And then sometimes I'm like, oh no,

like I feel very feminine when I do this. So I'm just still trying to juggle my kind of mental health really on how to just be my authentic self and not care and just be, you know, reverting back to when I was a kid. You know, when you're a kid, you just play, don't you?

You just do whatever feels right and what, you know, makes you happy. Stop sitting on your Aeroplan points and get big savings so you can be somewhere you actually want to be, like on a beach. Right now, you can save up to 25% in Aeroplan points when you book a trip to one of 180 plus Air Canada destinations worldwide. So stop sitting on your next trip and start saving on one. Don't miss out. Your chance to save in points ends February 23rd. Book at aircanada.com. Conditions apply. Is it changing, Heather? Is it getting better better do you think because it you see the big corporations jumping on board and kind of rainbows for the month is that a sign of like greater

general kind of acceptance i don't know i don't know i don't know where where i stand with all the the sort of the corporates are great in in terms of um lending their support and sponsorship to putting events on particularly in smaller places where they're trying to keep prides free um you know back in the day in 1997 would have been my first uh london pride it was then it's now called pride in london um and i was 19 years old and at that time Section 28 was in place. There was no, I'm putting it inverted commas, promotion of homosexuality.

What that actually involved was taking books out of libraries that had any reference to potentially gay, lesbian characters. It was just basically hiding the fact that it existed. And certainly, no, it's not promotion in school. It's just saying that, you know, some women love women and some men love men and whatever. Acknowledgement. Yeah, some acknowledgement. So for me growing up and my first pride, which was actually with Tony Mardsley, who played

Kenneth in Benidorm, who's now in Corrie, because he was best mates of my first girlfriend. So that was quite a raucous pride in London yeah and we were blowing whistles past the houses of parliament because there was actually law in place then so in terms of like the legality of it all it's been incredible you know when I came out I'm quite an old-fashioned girl really I like the idea of family and marriage and all that and so there was it was it was it was tinged with with sadness really because when I came out there was no possibility of that that's what you were giving up and here I am now in my family home I've got

three kids and a wife and um so I live in a community I'm very privileged to live in Brighton so for me our family has just accepted the way every other family in this community is. But that's because of the town I live in. You know, I'm not saying that me being in Brighton is the same for someone living somewhere else that might not be as accepting. So we did move on a lot. I think as we became more accepting and community as a whole became more accepting there's been a massive pushback and I'm with Riley on the fact that I'm not on social media as much as perhaps I would like because that backlash is hard to take it's when you get homophobia or transphobia, it hits so hard. And it actually breaks your heart a little bit.

A lot harder for Riley at the moment. I acknowledge that massively. Because even if I just get a little bit of it, it can knock me for ages. So I think there has been a real pushback but i would like to say i do think that is a lot to do with social media because actually that's what we're looking at and that's partly why i'm keeping myself off it as well because you take i don't know about you riley but you set yourself out in the real world and actually most people don't care yeah I think what sometimes what we see is this world where everyone feels they can be as vile

as they want because they're sitting behind a cartoon character or an egg yeah when they can say whatever they want which actually like day to day I't think most, I think most people just want to get on with their lives and their families. Nobody cares. I'm a lesbian. I don't really care that I'm a lesbian. It's like, since I've had the kids and my wife and everything else, it's like such a small part of who I am. And when I suddenly do come across some homophobia, certainly like it's so rare in real life, it knocks me to six. Cause I just, all i think about is

me and my little family unit you know um and the representation for me standards have been fantastic they're playing a love story we're changing a few hearts and minds and um that's that's all we can aim to do by choosing to play it as a love story so people all people want to just just see it as two people who want to be together that's that's it it's literally it's no different and that's what needs to be touched on more i know emma dale have done it uh but generally in a cross series is is love like for these you know minority stories i apart from emma dale you know i don't i've not seen a lot of you know the trans male representation is is what's decreasing as well trans women and non-binary

is increasing from the male is decreasing and it's it's it's not always the happiest like like you say the best story the love story at the end like you say the lip service it was always something that happened tragically to the happy lesbians. And my friend was like, why is it always a bad ending? Like, you never have a good ending. To be fair, to be fair with the lip service one, when there was that terrible death,

that was because they'd left us commissioning for so long. They'd left it like too long that other people had to go off and get jobs. Oh, yeah. All right, fair enough. Right, you're recommissioned and people go, yeah, i had to go get another job because i didn't know what i was doing i can't own about for you for ages there is a sort of yes stereotype of all the tragic stories end up for the lesbian couples the lesbians have always died yeah they are all the they've been psychopathic, like in basic.

Was she a lesbian in basic instinct? Anyway, you know, it's a trope that's got to be changed. And hopefully we're doing it this time. You're doing it. I did point out, I said, look, get rid of me by all means. Just don't kill me. They might still kill me. This is no guarantee.

You can only ask the question. You can only ask the question you can only ask the question um so yeah a lot of that sort of homophobia is being repackaged as transphobia at the moment isn't it it's the same it's exactly the same headlines and stuff just being regurgitated protect the kids and it's like they don't want anything to do with the kids it's always like heather Heather was saying about, you were said about taking out, obviously I was only three when you said about your first pride, by the way, I just want to say how young I am.

Oh no, I wanted to say how good I look for how old I am. That's what I mean. I mean, you do, but... Exactly. But like, yeah, taking that out and taking the books out live, it's history repeating itself. You know, what the Tories are wanting to do and what they're wanting to do if they continue power

is, you know, to take this, or the Reform Party even, is take that education of trans people out of schools and not letting social transitioning happen and, you know, and all that. And Natalie, we talked about the playing as a kid, you know, and people that are so like, you know and all that and natalie we talked about uh the playing as a kid you know and people that are so like you know again it's coming back to no you play with this and you play with this it's play you know we we play around we play characters and like just let people be uh that thing that just winds me up so much yeah totally and coming into that debate as well was part of the reason why i wanted to play eve quite butch because then the other spectrum of the butch lesbian as well isn't there there's kind of you know it's all on a spectrum and when i went in i

thought okay what can i do what can i sort of bring and i thought yeah where's where's the butch lesbian representation so let's put her with very little makeup if not any makeup let's put her in um quite boyish clothes you see even I'm having to describe it is that do you know yeah yeah yeah you know that sense give her a swagger you know you'd never see if he suddenly turned up in an evening gown we'd all be like what yeah yeah so it's that it's always just trying to think well yeah everybody all of these different people exist and they all play a part in society and my goodness why are we trying to make everybody the same because it would be so boring it is so boring isn't it so boring Taking awareness away doesn't stop any of this.

Doesn't stop. That was awkward. People have been LGBTQIA plus through history forever. And like just chopping it out of history doesn't mean that it stops. It's not going to go away. Yeah. It's too late, guys. It just means that people are happier and safer in their own existence and able

to be themselves sooner themselves and be out here is absolutely the key because i know for a fact there are family members of mine in my grandparents um age group who are no longer alive who were were gay lesbian and all they did was they still were gay and lesbian but they hid and they probably were a little bit unhappier than they could have been that's the point they still existed it's just nobody spoke to them anymore yeah i see on facebook at the minute they've uh photo booth pictures um or in the even victorian victorian age and pictures of lesbians and gay men. It's like it happened. It's here.

It's always been here. People think it's new. Even trans men and women, you know, people just infuriate me, honestly. Yeah, I don't know. I think, like you say, Natalie, even you doing this and just having this general conversation,

having myself and Heather here to have this chat and hear it from, you know, your audience members who might not, you know, they might not engage in conversation with a trans man daily or, you know, a lesbian woman daily. Like, they might not. And they're hearing it and they're like, I know it sounds stupid, but they sound normal or they sound like a laugh or like whatever.

They're actually normal, yeah. It's fine, you're right. The funny thing is they probably know plenty of people, but they've never thought, they've never noticed, they've never been trusted to be told by the person. Because they're looking for something that's an imaginary figure. The media and, as I say i say again the government are creating this scary monster of i also think i think if you're not educated right and you don't know

people who are trans or lesbian or gay whatever and you're not chatting to those people and you're not with those people like you say you're not immersed in their community or you can sit and have open conversations and learn if you're not educated and you can't learn people are really scared and they do shut off that's what the representation is about it's not about um education in terms of like good schooling or anything like literally about representation why the representation on tv like if my nana had seen this um relationship play out in eastenders she might not have felt the way she felt about me being a lesbian. You know, it's that, it's because any phobia is fear.

And fear of the unknown. If you suddenly, if it's not unknown to you and you meet Riley or you meet me and you just say, actually, wow, they're normal, a bit of an idiot, but they're normal. A bit of an idiot, but they're normal. I get charming and funny. I don't know about you. Thank you.

But yeah, like exactly. And I think I'm not looking for perfect. I'm not looking for someone to, you know, if I say I'm trans and I have before and then they suddenly say she, I mean, I think it's a bit silly. It's like you didn't see she before i said trans but you're clicking into something in your mind and then you say she but look if people are willing to learn willing to like genuinely educate like themselves and just be more mindful i'm open i'm not looking for perfect but i'm looking for not ignorant i think it's about respect and intention you know you can have

someone say something that is deemed incorrect um but if they didn't mean it to be it's the intention behind yes um i don't know whether you'd feel like that you know behind a misgendering riley like if it's intently but as soon as you know what something is oh yeah I've felt it we've all been we've been there haven't we Heather you know when someone is doing it to make you feel a certain way and put you down or is genuinely just just got it not worded in the right way yeah yeah and you know that and I think it's important for us not to make people afraid to get it wrong as well I think it's important to come from that other side. That's what I'm saying.

It's okay to get it wrong. Million percent. I'd love someone, and I'm sure you would, someone to respect. I would respect someone to come up and chat and just ask questions. It's different than some guy in a bar asking me what I have downstairs because they figured out I'm trans or whatever else. That's different. Someone coming up to me and asking questions and, you know,

genuinely wanting to understand that I have time for. And like, you know, if people are listening now and, you know, you want to know that we're not scary people. You know, we're welcoming and we genuinely, you know, we're part of this community. If anything, we're probably more welcoming than others because we've had to you know kind of learn to love ourselves as well and that's what I was talking about at the beginning it's loving that part of you that you were scared of at first you know

you're scared of like how that's going to be accepted and kind of the things that were projected when I'm sure you know you were coming out Heather um again probably a bit better for myself at the time because you know we had grown you know I came out as a lesbian first um but then it just didn't sit with me you know I needed to go a step further um so like it's just you fear you know I had that fear of how I was going to accept myself and who everyone was going to feel about me and my parents and my family. I've been very fortunate. And we've had to face the fear of what people would think of us

and how we accept ourselves. And I genuinely have been on this journey of trying to figure out who I am and how I love myself. And that makes me more of an accepting person generally. And I find that, you know, we are a more accepting group of people because we've had to go through those things. And that's all we want.

So anyone that's with my point is anyone that's willing and wanting to learn. And, you know, we're not scary. No. We will talk. I'd much rather someone take the time to learn than you know be nasty no i get that are you doing anything heather for pride this year because it's next weekend isn't it the london one yeah the london one yeah i mean i've done i've played i've played pride in london i've played quite a few prides but funnily enough

next weekend not this one coming um i quite like to do smaller prides sometimes, right? Yeah. Clacton. Oh. Where? Clacton. Clacton. Oh, okay.

Yeah. That'll be. Farage has just been there, hasn't he? Yeah, because he's standing there. I mean, I don't know how much we can dive into the politics. No, we can't dive into the politics at No, we can't dive into the politics at all. We can't dive into the politics. Yeah, so it's just I'm playing Plex and Pride, yeah, on the 29th.

So that'll be fun. I usually do, because I live in Brighton, I usually go down to Brighton Pride. I did play it for a few years. But, A, now they have people like Christina Aguilera. Yeah. But also, they do have a smaller stage but i used to ruin brighton pride every year because i was playing at it for whatever reason i did the acoustic stage a few years ago i'd ruin it because i just spent the whole weekend stressing so yourself you'd ruin it for yourself not for everyone else going guys she's great she's amazing they were all like oh no exactly exactly but you see it's only like

a five minute walk from where i am so it's the one pride i can wander down to go see christina aguilera and wander home yeah brilliant i walked home from Brighton Pride once. Not back to Manchester. No, not back to Manchester. What's it called? It was a long way anyway. There's a city, I can't think of what it's called. Who? Are you going to say it's part of the same place, Riley?

What's it called? I can't think of what it's called. Not home. It was drunk and it was... Sean. Paul Slade. Maybe. We could just do this listen to all the podcasts

we could do a half Bourne how far did you go Hastings East Bourne East Bourne you did no walk to East Bourne

that's a half an hour drunk we well did because I couldn't get a taxi so we had to walk home so yeah it was horrible

God I bet you had some blisters Jesus I think the drunk you know We had to walk home, so yeah, it was horrible. God, I bet you had some blisters. Jesus. I think the drunk, you know, anesthetised my feet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always helpful, isn't it? After doing this podcast, go on Google Billy Connolly's drunk walk and see which one you were.

Have you ever seen those videos? No. Billy Connolly drunk walk, that's you going back to Eastbourne. There's one that he does that says, this is the chap who looks like he's never ever going to stop walking it's brilliant google it i'm gonna have a look at that after that's brilliant tell us about the joyful stuff you've got coming up what are you what you up to i'm saying all there's not a lot of representation and stuff but like i've been doing things you know I'm video games and stuff like that like I'm doing things in the background that you know it's not massive exposure like it's not on a soap or whatever but like the

little things that are happening and you know people are playing these games and I'm voicing the game I can't say the game because now I'm signing an NDA but like you know it's like things like that are like yeah like I'm out there and people you know eventually they will look up this person and they're like oh all right that's cool like kids will play this game and they'll be like oh oh wow he's trans or you know I'm doing this um musical this for some reason I've suddenly become a singer uh in my career recently um I was singing on screw and then I started doing this musical workshop, which is about a trans pop star, trans male pop star.

And it goes, it's all about the pop culture industry and whatnot in the 80s, but about grieving and what. So there is like a dark side to it. But the point of it is the revival, the confidence and the coming kind of out and alive and owning yourself and I think that's quite a fun story and there's a lot of fun projects I'm aware of that are happening um so yes there is things that are happening but it's more you know it's small it's smaller in the background and again trying to get the

crowdfunding the visibility for those things that's really important so again like i can't be saying it's important it doesn't matter how small things are right because what it is about is um lgbtq people seeing themselves represented they will find those projects in the small communities they'll be able, it's giving those people somewhere to go. Cause like growing up for me, there was absolutely zero representation. I mean, zero representation.

Yeah. And I, I, I literally did not know I was a lesbian until she kissed me. And suddenly, and I was 19 and I was brought up a Catholic and I came from a small little town just in Bradford called Wibsey and for example um if I saw a boy that was really good looking I had boyfriends

and the girls would all be lost for words um like oh my god he's so gorgeous I would just literally walk up to that boy and ask him out because I didn't get all of that right and I can tell you that the difference was and then my friends just thought it was amazing the difference was when i met women everything that all of my girlfriends i mean platonic girlfriends had said to me about being lost for words suddenly not being able to be funny saying the wrong thing you know like i carried a watermelon and dirty dancing all of that stuff all of that stuff that sends you into sheer panic was what happened with women it wasn't it hit me like a sledgehammer

and that's the only way I can describe it where you go oh oh my god and everything slotted into place it wasn't just about being with that first woman that i stayed i stayed with her for 18 months it was um she left me first heartbreak in my life it was everything else with that we've sat with some wine on a few evenings now and i've heard a lot of your stories you've had a lot of stories haven't you have a lot of stories yeah but it was like suddenly i knew i knew what i wanted to wear i knew how i felt politically. When was that? So when was that moment where it just went bang, like it's just slotted in? When was that?

Age 19, sitting on a walk outside Mantua's on Canal Street in Manchester. She kissed me. And let me tell you, did I tell you the story? I had a boyfriend, right? And I always had a dream of kissing in the summer rain, right? This is true. You know when it's really hot and the heavens heavens open and it happened once when we were out walking and i said to him i won't say his name i said you've got to kiss me you've got to kiss me now you've

got to kiss me now anyway if it fluttered around so much i said all the moment's gone now forget it and i am not kidding you it was it was an august night kissing kissing my first girlfriend on the wall on Canal Street, and the heavens opened. Oh. Wow. It's made up. That is what happened. And we got on a bus back to her house, literal steam coming off our T-shirt.

Steaming. That's magical, isn't it? It was a sign. It was a sign. Oh, it's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. It's that euphoric feeling isn't it like you say you got that from coming out as gay getting that getting that kiss and whatnot when i came out as gay it was just like it felt good because i you know i i fancy

women but i was just like and my best friend came out at the same time and he was like happy and I was just like, there's something just niggling away at me and I was like, well, I don't understand why I'm not like that. You know, that feeling of, whoa. That euphoria. It was euphoria. And it just, and then I just started secretly like YouTubing like

men, like women and, you know, like all random keywords and whatnot and then this was mainly American uh YouTubers at that time and I was just watching these in private make sure deleting my history so my dad's laptop and all that kind of you know really on edge constantly because of all the things I was googling and um and I just started realizing more and more that that's you know that's what it was and you know eventually I told my

parents and my family I remember my mum bringing my family members round in sections and she would sit in her living room and she'd do a big speech and I was upstairs and she'd tell them and I'd come in and they were all it's like so dramatic like just very my mum and it was just funny. But how wonderful though

to have a mum like that. Yeah, yeah, a million percent. Did they give you the stars in your eyes smoke at least to sort of... I did myself. I have to make a dramatic entrance. Yeah, that would be brilliant. Tell us what Pride means to you. I think for me, it's like a coming together it's um it's it's a

time when you you don't feel like a minority and also for me i feel a huge sense of pride seeing the development from blowing a whistle outside the houses of parliament just with all of the all of the lgbt to now being in brighton and going to Brighton Pride and everybody on the streets. It's now for me that pride is for everybody, for the LGBTQ plus and their allies. And I see I see all of my straight, all my straight families here go down and the kids are on the shoulders and everybody's got glitter and face paint in. And it's just wonderful. And now for my kids, they do a family day on the Sunday down at Brighton. And it's just it's wonderful.

And they just feel they feel special for a day. Oh, that's wonderful. That's brilliant. And that's actually a really good point is it's the allies as well. Like, you know, we're talking about what we see on media and then people say these negative things but like heather said in reality so many people are so normal with it and fine with it and we see that daily we just need to see it globally like and i think that's what's really important and special and you really see that during pride month you feel recharged yeah it just energizes

you to see all the positivity like throughout pride month well i'd say for me for me a straight woman i love pride for i just love the coming together of people so whatever that be whatever event that be they're coming together and feeling a connection and a love about something and having that kind of strength to go look at this we're celebrating this today for me it's just that's joyous celebrate the similarities and not the differences i think is a really big one. That's nice. A million percent. It's kind of like when we all support local football clubs and then when we watch England, we're all together. But it is, but you are right about that.

You're laughing about it. But when you watch England, there's something about it. There's something special because you know you're connecting around the whole of this country. You're connecting with people. And again, it's that community. There's something magic about that. Because you're just people that want to enjoy and support something.

You know, you come together for the same focus. And that's what this month is about. And that's what it should be about all the time. And that's why we have Pride Month, because that's what it needs to just be. This coming together and fighting for peace and humanity, as cliche as it sounds, that's what it is. It's as simple as. Yeah.

I think we should bring Daryl in. I think he'll piss himself. Should we bring him in? Yay! Hello. Hello. Hi, Daryl. Hello yay hello hi Daryl good thank you nice to meet you all Natalie wanted to

throw you into the we've just been I just thought I'd throw you into the mix because I thought you might be a bit excited to meet Heather I am very excited yeah and you oh yeah and me I want to thank Daryl. And Riley. I want to thank Daryl and Riley.

Now, I wanted to bring Daryl in because it was Daryl who WhatsApp messaged me and said, well, what did you say? Tell us what you said. I WhatsApp messaged you to ask you to talk a little bit about Pride during Pride Month. And you're doing it which is incredible and that's down to you because obviously you know that's why i love this bloody podcast because people just chuck me ideas and i'm like of course i should be doing that yeah so it's your it's your fault and your idea and that's why we're doing it today so thank you so much i will gladly take the blame for that it's really nice to meet you mate. Yeah lovely to meet you too. Thanks for the suggestion.

Yeah it's awesome I think it's such an important topic especially during June and you know we should be screaming about it we should be shouting about how proud we are to to be in this amazing community. Amazing and tell us a little bit about you Daryl whilst we've got, tell us about you. Yeah, so I live at home with my husband, Dan, and our two cats, Louie and Bodie. Happily married now, coming up three years in August. But we've been together. Oh, thank you. We've been together for 10 years.

But yeah, no, like my kind of, I've been out now for about 16 years. I basically come out in 2010 um to my mum and dad um but I'm going to tell you a little story about my coming out if that's all right yeah lovely okay so basically when I was 19 I was working in Mallorca as a holiday rep um and it was my second year in Mallorca um and my sister and her boyfriend now husband Ben um come out to um see me um in June um and they spent a lovely week with me and we had a really really lovely time I kind of felt really free being with my sister and her boyfriend because at the time no one knew that I was gay other than the people I worked with in Mallorca

so I'd come out at 19 to all of them and I was kind of living an incredible life just being free and not having to hide who I truly was and basically my sister and her boyfriend could definitely get that vibe that I was like living the life that I should have been living but obviously I was still hiding it to them when they come to see me and towards the end of my their visit they spoke to my housemate who is a real dear friend of mine she's called Jess and we've kind of stayed friends lifelong and my sister said to her look can you be completely honest with me is my brother gay because I love him dearly but I need to know so I can let him know that it's OK.

And so she took the really brave decision to actually tell my sister in confidence that I was actually gay, but I was living the life that I should be living. And basically, so my sister wrote me a note and she hid it in my wardrobe. This was in June. And then when I was packing my stuff away in September I discovered the note and it kind of said look I love you dearly Daryl like you should you should live who you want to be you know I'm so so proud of you um well done for being who you want to be and I just fell to pieces I was packing my stuff up it sat there for months and I'd never discovered it and then when I was reading it I just kind of felt like oh my god I need to go home right now I need to grab my sister uh who's Leanne by the way who is a listener of life isn't that and is a huge fan and and you know obviously when I got back I was like oh my god I can't believe you

left this note she goes what the hell Have you not seen it all these months? So when I got back, obviously it took a few weeks, but I eventually got the courage one night to just go downstairs to my mum and dad who were watching TV. And I just sat them down and I was so afraid of what my dad would say. He's like a burly man, like, you know, always made little comments. You know, when there was that gay kiss on EastEnders he'd be like oh I'm not watching this oh you know big macho man but so I was really worried about how he would how he would you know take it but he was the most incredible responsive and accepting person out of out of him and my mum like my mum was obviously

accepted but I think she was worried about what he would think. But he just loved it. And he went and told all of his friends. And he's so, so proud. And it just makes me really emotional to think that, you know, that they were so accepting. But I'm really, really conscious that not everybody's coming out story is like this.

Yes. And so many people's coming out story is tough um and you know and they don't get the acceptance that they want and it is a real challenge for them and a struggle uh so i'm just very very lucky to have such a lovely story but i know that there'll be people listening to this going yeah unfortunately that wasn't like that for me or my friend didn't have it like that or my son he didn't have it like that you know things like that so daryl the thing is like that for me or my friend didn't have it like that or my son he didn't have it like that you know things like that so daryl the thing is like that's that's the one thing that we haven't raised about pride is actually the funds that it raises for charities for certainly for the albert kennedy

trust and which i'm a i'm a patron which is for exactly what you're saying is is for lgbt kids who end up getting thrown out of of home which does happen they end up there they're a much bigger percentage of the youth homeless population on the streets because of that and therefore vulnerable and at risk and the Albert Kennedy Trust does amazing work and helping those kids and and that's that's the other thing with pride is is that it does essentially raise funds to help people who didn't have as amazing story as yourself. Daryl, brilliant story, by the way. It's beautiful.

Thank you. Beautiful, beautiful story. Beautiful story. Thank you so much. I mean, it's not something that I talk about a lot. I think I was asked to speak about it when I was working for TUI in um in their lgbtq employee network which i helped um kind of found um and we did we did our own podcast actually in 2019 i think it was where we um kind of discussed our coming out stories with the rest of the network and it was kind of was shared across the business um and we got some really really lovely feedback and obviously there was stories on that which um i had friends who worked there who didn't quite have the coming

out story and I think that's what people really gravitated to and and stuff but but no thank you thank you for saying that I think it's beautiful and I'm very proud of it. And I think that's another reason I suppose why you know again I'm asking the question, but for people that maybe haven't had that sort of story and haven't felt that acceptance, maybe from their family or what have you, perhaps when they can wander down the street at a festival, which is all about that and know that they're surrounded by people who are accepting, that's got to be pretty special right yeah absolutely absolutely i think that you know these pride festivals and stuff like you know the artists that they get to perform at these shows are incredibly proud to be there and are showing that they are allies if not part of the community themselves and i think that just being amongst all of those other incredible souls and just be able to party and enjoy yourself without any worry of anybody saying anything bad to you and just having the freedom. It's just beautiful. And if you've never been to a Pride, I say to everybody, if you've never been to a Pride, give one a go.

Even if you go in as an ally, you will be completely welcomed with opened arms. Absolutely. I think as well i think as well it's really important get yourself to some of the smaller ones you know we we know we've no brighton we know london glasgow and manchester they're amazing they get the biggest artists all of that stuff but like clackton where i'm playing um in a week or so for the smaller towns it's it's almost more important you know yes because you can you can be gay and and trans and and whoever you want to be in the big cities and i'm not saying that collecting is like that i don't

know whether collecting you know but i'm saying that when you're in smaller smaller towns um it's sometimes harder it's harder to be visible and so and i would assume scarier in some of these little towns yeah i would i would say so no absolutely um yeah that yeah nothing else to say i think the thing is when you are from a smaller town you come out and you tend to gravitate to the big cities where you do feel safer you know i would see in bradford i went to manchester you know and it just felt like there were more of us uh yeah so so yeah i think pride's important for that as well so that's where the allies would be greatly appreciated as well more support more yeah you know every every the point of being an ally is supposed to be about, you know,

protecting, giving an extra voice, an extra, like, echo to what needs to be said and what needs to be... Putting yourself on the line, isn't it? You know, being anti-racist, being anti-homophobic, being anti-transphobic, they're all, you know, it's not just actively just not not being homophobic racist or transphobic it's actually about calling it out yeah yeah i think i think as well like obviously i i went to school in the 90s um which was right in the middle of section 28 um so section 28 for anybody who doesn't know was was a you know a law that was brought into place in margaret

batch's government which kind of ran from 88 all the way up into 2003. And anybody who went to school during that time didn't have any promotion about homosexuality. They were almost taught to fear homosexuality. So I think a lot of the youngsters that I went to school with and who may have thought that they had feelings for the opposite sex or were just trying to figure out what they were feeling kind of were pushed back into the closet even further because at school the people that you trust the you know your teacher your social worker

things like that were were told do not promote homosexuality because it you know it isn't correct and and i think like for that whole generation in the 90s and the early noughties and even to the back end of the late 80s i think you know our generation is is kind of hugely scarred by that um but we're very very lucky now that we're living in such an accepting accepting place but you know i'm i'm still really um grateful for the generations before me who had to go through like the aids epidemic and things like that. And like, you know, they they are the reason we're we're marching at Pride. Right. They're the reasons we're saying, look, we're proud to be gay because of those people before us who just literally were not allowed to be.

It was very it was illegal. It was illegal to be gay. Right. And it was seen as a stigma uh to be gay and you would get aids if you were gay i'm just so so glad that that those times are well behind us and those people who who did survive that can continue and march with us and still be proud well that's fantastic thank you so much daryl really welcome i really really hope uh people listening to this learn something as well you know there'll be i hope there are listeners who maybe haven't had a chat like this before and pop it on and they'll just get a little just an insight into life a life that maybe they're not sure of or unsure of or a little bit scared of and like

like heather said fearful of and maybe they'll listen and go actually that just all sounds really bloody nice yeah educational it sounds the same almost sounds the same it's the same we're all just trying to live our life and the thing is as well um if you are fearful of it please don't um feel afraid to ask any question well not within who's the man and who's the woman don't ask me who's the mummy who's the daddy shush you know what i mean um just come up and have a chat i'm always i'm always open to have a chat yeah most of those questions have been asked many times. They exist on Google first.

See where you get to with that. It's not the responsibility of everyone around you to have to do that sort of educational labour, but they're also really lovely. It's lovely people. We're just people. Yeah. Just literally people

like you like everyone i just try and have a no dickhead policy in my life right so i just don't want any dickheads i don't want to talk to any dickheads i mean sometimes you have to cross them don't get me wrong but in terms of the time i spend with people and who I want to talk to, I just don't want any dickheads. And I'm looking at my screen now and I've got no dickheads on it. And I'm very, very happy. You're all great people. I'd like to see your checklist on what makes you a dickhead. We'll talk about that.

Yeah, I know. We can talk about that. Don't you worry. Next time you're over, next time we have a sleepover, we'll have a good old chat. All right. Well, thank you so much thank you for everything and thanks for sharing your time with me today because i know you're already busy well no guys thank you for having us on both of you it's um it's really lovely that you're doing this and consider yourselves allies thank

you very much for being so we are we're allies and we love you thanks for having us guys yeah thank you so much nice to meet you daryl enjoy the rest of your holiday riley as well i have i've still got 10 days so enjoy yourself enjoy keep in touch it'd be lovely to see you genuinely i know that I've got in touch for this it'd be really nice if you know next time you're down this way message me won't you

because it'd be so nice to see you and catch up I'm coming too I'm coming definitely I'll keep you I'll hold you to that

just keep in touch that's what I mean thank you so much everyone thank you everyone brilliant Daryl if you want to stay on for a bit Daryl if you want to stay on for a bit Daryl if you want to stay on

everyone's got things to do but me and you can have a little bit more of a chat if you like thank you lovely wasn't that nice thank you so much I really really appreciate you having me on like absolutely love your podcast it's bloody brilliant thank you so much

and you know as I said my sister started to watch and listen now um and I was like look you've got to listen to it it's hilarious and um so she did and she would listen to all 16 in a row um oh she didn't yeah because she's a because she's a commuter she commutes from um badfitch here into central london so she's got all of that time to do it so um i think over over the week she kind of listened to them back to back but i've now said to my mum as well like natalie cassidy you know natalie cassidy oh she goes yeah i've got her on instagram i said listen to her podcast and she was like keep going you're a champion but she doesn't listen to many podcasts or know how to do it

so i've had to show her how to get it up on spotify this is what we do this is what i do i'm at the supermarket someone will come up and chat and i say have you got and they don't know how to do it there's so many people who don't listen to podcasts it's crazy i think they don't realize how easy it is either and also i think they don't yeah not only the ease but i think they're not sure if it's free or not a lot of people say i'm a little bit nervous like do i have to pay for this so once you explain that and like you say get their phone out and download it it's so easy isn't it um but thank you so much for doing that for me no you're so welcome you're so so welcome but um yeah um for ages my husband was like you're not speaking to Natalie Cassidy I was like I am I am you know

what I mean and he was like oh I don't believe you I don't believe you so I'll tell him look listen to this I'm on it with her that's all you need to do now right so on Monday you can just go here we go now have a little listen to this yeah exactly we've had a little message from Julie that I wanted to play for this episode hey Nat Nat, Julie Moody here, CJ Moo. Pride means a hell of a lot to me. My daughter came out many years ago now, she's in her 30s. She's happily married to her wife and they have two daughters and are living life to the full. And it just makes my heart melt and go warm and fuzzy when I see them both together having the best life ever. So roll on pride.

Oh, thank you so much, Julie. What a lovely message. How beautiful was that? So, so lovely. Like, that just makes you feel so warm and fuzzy, like hearing a mother so proud of her daughter. And you can just tell the way that she was speaking there. Like, you could just feel the emotional aspect through her voice. You could just, and the warmth of it and the tenderness of it and the, you know, the realness of it. And that's what i love

that's what i love and that's what i want to really get across today is it's not just about just kind of labeling it and going oh it's pride so you know it's all about you know just being you know protective of people or or get a flag out and go, oh, for this month I'm doing this. It's about people and human beings, no matter what you are, just being friends and being happy and creating nice, safe spaces in the world we live in. You know what I mean? I know that we're celebrating Pride Month because I'm doing this, but let's just be kind.

Let's just be nice human beings. And that's what I want to promote. Let's just be nice human beings and that's what i want to promote let's just be nice to everybody do you know what i mean and if you are a dickhead i don't want to talk to you do you know i genuinely i don't i just want nice people around and i think we should all champion each other and tell each other how proud we are and how much we love each other and i just think it's so important it just boosts everybody and if we all did it it's that ripple effect of everyone feeling that little bit happier and that little bit warmer and having that little bit more of a nicer time and that's you know that's what i really want to get across it's love isn't it it's just love it's love of people and acceptance of

everybody it is that's exactly what it is thank you so much daryl i'm gonna say goodbye now thank you thank you so much no thank you honestly and like i say this is this is down to you so thank you all right we'll see you soon take care see you soon all right darling bye love to your sister bye have a lovely week i will see you on thursday m see you thursday see you thursday have a brilliant rest of the week, guys. Speak soon. Bye. Hi, this is Chris McCausland. And this is Diane Boswell.

And we've got a new podcast, haven't we, Di? We do. What's it called? Winning Isn't Everything. Every week, me and Diane are going to be having a little catch up on the back of Strictly aren't we Di

we are I've missed you Chris I've missed you too we're going to talk some nonsense so why not tune in available everywhere you get your podcasts