Life with Nat - EP25: Mum Guilt

Episode Date: July 14, 2024

Nat chats to her niece Maria (roro) about their kids, their work, and why it’s so hard doing all of it all the time!!! Even when it's going well, it's stressful! Please subscribe, follow, and leave a review. xxx You can find us in all places here; https://podfollow.com/lifewithnat/view INSTA: @natcass1 A 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] SHOW INFO: Life with Nat - it’s me! Natalie Cassidy and I’ll be chatting away to family, friends and most importantly YOU. I want to pick people's brains on the subjects that I care about- whether that’s where all the odd socks go, weight and food or kids on phones. Each week I will be letting you into my life as i chat about my week, share my thoughts on the mundane happenings as well as the serious. I have grown up in the public eye and have never changed because of it. Life with Nat is the podcast for proper people. Come join the community. ♥️ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

🎵 Hello and welcome to Life with Nat on this very lovely Monday. Hope you've all had a good weekend. I'm joined by Maria, aka Roro tonight. We've not seen her in a while. How are you, sweetheart? I'm good, thank you. Yeah, I'm good. Nice to be back. Nice to be back. Nice to have you back.

Thanks, babes. What's interesting about this Monday, obviously we are recording this before the England game, so we can't really celebrate or commiserate. We don't know what's going to happen. Are you going to come and watch that with me? I might do, yes. That would be nice. It would be lovely to see the kids, not seen them for ages. Yeah, could do that.

See how you feel. Do you want me here to do that? Yeah, I thought it would be lovely. All right. So have you got a little England shirt? He has indeed. Ah, what, the new one? How much was that, 400 quid?

No, it was like 80 quid. No, we got it. No, he's got not the 80 quid one. It's ridiculous. No, it's a Liberty. I cannot believe the prices they charge for children's football kits when all the boys want them. It's, well, you've got the, well, I know it's every four years,

Euro's World Cup, all that. Yeah. But then you've got the teams. Yeah. Every year. Do you you've got the teams. Yeah. Every year. Do you remember we got Eliza one and obviously got it personalised. Yeah. And it was tiny.

Yeah. And we got her size. It'd come up small. That's right. So she hardly wore it and that cost like hundreds. Because by the time you get all the letters on and the number, all the personalisation, it's chunks. It's a lot of money for families. Yeah, it's another expense isn't it

and everyone wants it don't they because all their mates have got it etc yeah exactly more pressure i know well talking of pressure we are here tonight to talk about something which is very close i think to every parent's heart but we're going in on mums because we're females and i'm sure dads also get a lot of guilt but tonight we are talking about mum guilt and everyday occurrence. I mean where do we start with this subject? I don't know. I'd like to start by saying that Maria won't say this she works full-time she is an amazing mum and you work very very hard all the time and I quite frankly don't know how you do it. Yeah.

No, I must say that's probably the only positive to come out of COVID is working from home. Well, just the flexible working. Yes. So I don't work from home every day, but even just a couple of days a week makes such a difference being able to able to do the school run being able to go to the odd assembly on a friday being able to yeah pick them up just yeah spending a few extra hours of the evening without getting home even than being asleep or just having that dreaded you know that time of day where they're knackered the witching hour yeah and then you get in and it's like you got to do the fun jobs like bath time bedtime when they're exhausted yeah and it's just not fun is

it and then you end up just having to go you just don't get the best bits it's so true the amount of times i come home from work and you're quite right you're getting at half six or something and it's just the worst time they're tired they've had their dinner well it's a long day as well you've had a long day you're tired yeah and by the time you've messed about doing all that getting everything ready for the next day what down you don't get any downtime yourself oh and i just find myself going come on go to sleep yeah go to sleep it's 10 past eight i've got stuff to do where i've come in and actually there's probably a few emails that i need to send stuff i need to do but i've given that up to continue the evening with them.

And then you feel like shit. But this is it. Because you've thrown them to bed and I've had a go at them. Yeah, and this is it. And it's even that, like, and if they're being naughty or just, you know, like you say, they're just a bit ratty or whatever, then you are, for me, sometimes I'm just like, I can't wait to get them to bed.

No, exactly. And then you're like, but I haven't even seen them. And all I'm thinking about is getting them to bed so I can have an hour to myself. It's crazy. You travel home, can't wait to see them to bed. No, exactly. And then you're like, but I haven't even seen them. And all I'm thinking about is getting them to bed so I can have an hour to myself. It's crazy. You travel home, can't wait to see them, and within about 15 minutes

you can't wait to get them into bed. But it's the same, it's even the weekends, isn't it, sometimes? You go, oh, lovely, lovely weekend together. And then sometimes you're like, oh my goodness.

Well, funny, Instagram must be reading my mind at the moment because you just keep getting the memes, don't you? And it absolutely makes me wet myself. There's a corker. Is this the one you sent me earlier?

The one I sent you, Nat. It made me, I sent it to mum because I was creasing up because actually on Sunday mum come over, we were just doing a bit of rearranging at home, getting a bit organised. A bit of cleaning. A bit of cleaning. Who was I saying to actually today about the cleaning?

She had the, I literally, when I tell you, I was like, I'm just going to run to Tesco's to get some food shopping. So I was like, I'll do a bit of dinner. I've come home. When I tell you she has rearranged my lounge, like moved a sideboard. I walked in. She's got the fridge out cleaning behind the fridge. Lovely though. Lovely, though.

Lucky, lucky girl. So, yeah, that's why I have her around most weekends. But, yeah, Ruby was on one on Sunday, just being just unlike her, but just aggy all day. And then I saw this meme and I sent it to her because I was like, how apt is this? There we go. What now?

I said, what now? That's what I say every time. watch me when my child says mummy for the millionth time of the day it's brilliant isn't it joni why do they have to say mummy before everything so she has been at home for five days with chicken pox She wasn't ill She was spotty She was absolutely fine I love her with all my heart She drove me insane Mummy, mummy

What we're going to do is Mummy, mummy And you can't help it You can't help but snap So last Monday after my weekend I thought I can't wait for them to go to school Isn't it awful? Then they go to school and I'm like

Oh I miss them. It's life. It's a vicious circle. And this is why we need to talk about it and people will appreciate it because all you see online is this amazing, perfect families and they're kissing their children and they've all got white nightdresses on and it's all perfect and they love each other. That is not correct.

But it's just like... I love my kids so much, but I could bloody kill them at times. No, I know, but it's just even things like, you know, the weekends. You've got to do something with them. You've got to take them somewhere because... Not me. You have done that, though. I did with Eliza.

Yeah, you were like... When I was on my own own I think it was more about being on my own yeah at the weekends and stuff and I wanted to get her out and it was more for me really being lonely wanting to get out but now I feel fully content at home and I do let them slob out yeah and I think that's important I think that's really and I love a day at home because it's lovely they're playing with their toys. If they're on form, lovely. If they're not, it's the pits. Like, you need to get them out of the house.

You need to get them out, yeah. But then sometimes you do have a day out and you're like, why have I done this to myself? It's an absolute shit show. Amy Hart said it today, who I'm going to have on the pod soon, but Amy put on her story, put my child in the car, was going to take them to the farm, got all ready, fell asleep in the car.

Went over speed bumps trying to wake it up. Wouldn't. And wouldn't, so she just went back home. Yeah. But how many times have you done that? Well, it's just sometimes you do it more for yourself, don't you? They don't really know. It's lovely to do the nice things with them.

I mean, we've done it. How many times have we done it? We've been to a lovely farm for the day, but the hour drive there. And this is it, isn't it? Then they fall asleep on the way home and they're not going to bed. That's it then.

And that is, for me, my kids, if they fall asleep, that's it, they're not going to bed. Mine were the same. It's awful, isn't it? Mine were the same. But isn't it awful that sometimes you have to think, oh, can I go there?

Because then what about when I drive home? They're going to fall asleep. I used to be really, really bad for that. I used to think of it often. Yeah. And think, I'm happy to go, but do you know what? I'm going to leave at seven o'clock then. Yeah, I know, but I tried to do that when we went to the zoo.

Oh, yeah? They were all wide awake when we got home. Oh, yeah, you said. Unbelievable. What a nightmare. But, yeah, it's tough. to do that when we went to the zoo and they were all wide awake when we got home you said unbelievable what um yeah it's um it's tough i mean i just had alfie had his sports day the other day yeah and i i a childhood memory of mine his mum was at every sports day always mrs competitive yeah doing the mum race yeah winning the mum race yeah so. Winning the mum race. Yeah. So not that I would be doing the race because that's not me.

But that was my thing. I thought I'm going to every sports day. I don't care. Didn't go to sports day, did I? Yeah, but what was the reason for you not going? Well, I had a work thing. Well, what are you meant to do? I know, but I'm just saying it's gutting, isn't it?

Of course it is. Because the work thing is obviously very important. But that was his first sports day and I missed that and I cried. No, I understand that. I do get that. So now I'm like, I'm never missing a sports day. I mean, don't get me wrong, his reception, it was like 45 minutes. I know, but it's how you feel.

Let me tell you about sports day. I have missed, to make you feel better, so many sports days. So many. Because it's impossible when the date comes out from the school. For me, with the job that I do at EastEnders, it would always be too late and you just couldn't get it off. So I miss loads. This year, first year in a very, very long time, I was off, Mark was off. We could not wait.

We had a free trip to Cornwall that we could have gone on last week. I was going to do an interview for Cornwall TV. Right. And I said that I cannot do it. Because it's Sports Day. Sports Day, and I want to be there. And me and Mark are actually both present. Yeah.

She's got chicken pox. So it's crazy stuff so my mum Gil is it was my son's 11th birthday on the 21st of June saw him

open his presents in the morning before he went to school and then he was going to his dad's after school and I was going to meet them for a meal

in the evening but it was going to be a surprise he didn't know I was going I've been poorly for weeks and weeks had gone to the doctors and been sent to A&E so obviously we then had to let him know that I wasn't coming his dad still took him with his girlfriend so I missed the meal for my

son's birthday and then the next day would have been his party was it like a picnic in the park every year and this kind of was going to be like the last one because he's 11 and starting secondary school and I could not make that at all um so his whole birthday weekend um was just a downer because of that so I felt really really guilty because I couldn't be there for him for his birthday um I ended up spending like 34 hours in A&E feeling like absolute crap. Right, Bryony, can I just say something to you? Thank you for your message. You're really ill. Oh, it's so shit.

This really annoys me. No, but you're ill. It's so unfair. You've gone to A&E and you feel like that. That's what I mean. You haven't gone on a jolly. Like no control. You've got no control over that.

But I get it. Of course you're going you're gonna feel shit like you know what your son's had a lovely time he's been with his dad and like you say your uh your ex's girlfriend it sounds like you're all very amicable which is lovely he's probably had a lovely time and he's probably just worried about you yeah and you know what like when you're better and when you're feeling well enough you can go and do something special together it hasn't got to be that day that day like there's enough going on anyway sometimes very overwhelming so true you just do it another time do something really special and that will be his memory he's not going to think oh but it wasn't on my birthday no absolutely you're just spreading we overthink everything and this is the thing. We do. It is. Yeah, oh, it's got to be this way.

It's got to be on this day. And it's like, no, actually, you just make it work. It's about the memories that you create. And you'll do that. You're so right. So right. But more importantly, obviously. I hope you're okay.

Yeah, you haven't said what it is and whatever, but I really, really, really hope you're okay. And thank you for your message. And thanks for listening to the pod. And I'm sure your son loves you, like whether you're there or not. So. Of course. Of course.

Here's another one. Hi Nat. Just seen your story about mum guilt and holidays. I think you should really combine the two and make it mum guilt during the holidays. As we approach the six week summer summer break i'm self-employed four kids wow juggling juggling the mum guilt they're having to work around the kids and the activities and the days out and the fun and the this and the not so entertaining days the mum guilt is real and it is there prior to that i was cabin crow for virgin so i have lots of airport and holiday saga stories

but yeah i do think the mum guilt and the um holiday dramas i think i think could be combined into into one pod thank you so much for your message but isn't it true we've got the six weeks holidays coming up now but this and this is it and i think like it's expensive it's expensive again people feel like your kids have to be doing something 24 7 because they'll be bored yeah we i was at home we used to entertain ourselves like how about when you come to me when we were little yeah where did we go i'll tell you where we went in the garden with a load of bed sheets making tents that's what we did especially if they've got company as well

like they should be able to entertain themselves a little bit but I think this is it as well like we put so much pressure on ourselves and I think because we do that then when you do take them out and it actually doesn't go according to plan you get so pissed off then you get upset

because you've put so much pressure on it and you've also put a lot of effort in to do so. Yeah, of course. And money. Yeah. That money's spent. Absolutely. And, you know, this is the thing.

It's like whether you're a full-time mum at home, you're going to feel guilt because then you're at home all the time and you feel like, I should be doing stuff more with them. Yeah. And then when you're working full-time, you feel guilty because you feel like you're not there doing all those things with them. So there's no bloody answer. No, there isn't an answer. I mean, I've been very blessed over the years. You know, I'm not going to sit here and moan. There are people who have messaged in.

They work for the NHS. They're doing 20-hour shifts. They don't see their kids and they work because they've got to keep their house. You know, there's a lot going on um but even i over the years you know i've missed a lot of things because it's been out of my control yeah and you have to be at work and you have to be at work like again i've booked ruby's birthday off yeah it coincides with the day that alfie finishes school as well yeah but i've just had this big meeting put in right and i'm i'm taking that day off i am i'm not it's my it's my little girl's birthday like i'm not yeah you know whereas me you've got no choice there's no choice for me no no one can place on, exactly. So if I don't get that day off, you know, they can be very accommodating.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if they're not. And it's different, isn't it? It's a different sort of job. Yeah, it's a different game. And then I can have two weeks off. That's what you've got to remember. I can be really, really busy and then it can slow down.

Yeah, but it's the same as like when you've done panto before. Oh. You're not really around that much. You love Christmas. I did one panto and that was it. When you did Big Brother? Yeah. You was away.

Eliza was little then. She was nine months. Yeah, I didn't realise how young she was. She was a baby. You know, and that's, I know it's your choice, but again, it's financial choice, it's career choice. It's, you know, it's still all part and parcel of it. Yeah, absolutely.

Oh, yeah, that's another thing as well. Like when self-employed people, you don't get paid holiday. No, no, there's no holiday. Even if you're with someone that is employed, even if you're both employed, I still don't think you have enough holiday to cover all the school holidays. Absolutely. So, yeah, that in itself, like how do you juggle that and then you know another aspect is then you're sort of palming them off left right and centre I mean you do that anyway I did that anyway with

child care just to get by but you know you think for the kids sometimes oh gosh they're here there and everywhere during the week they haven't got that consistency some kids are very easy with it and flexible but some it's not great for them it's it's it's really hard for people this is an ad from better help online therapy we always hear about the red flags to avoid in relationships but it's just as important to focus on the green flags. If you're not quite sure what they look like, therapy can help you identify those qualities so you can embody the green flag energy and find it in others. BetterHelp offers therapy 100% online and sign up only takes a few minutes. Visit betterhelp.com today to get 10% off your first month that's better help help.com katie thank you for this katie said this hi nat heard you're asking for stories on mum girl over instagram not a story although i have many full

disclosure i do work with this brand but wanted to share these stats following some research they did a few months ago thought it might be interesting to you and your listeners keep up the great work you're doing in creating a safe space for all sorts of conversations love katie so thank you but she's just said mum guilt almost 50 feeling guilty when they take time out for themselves with over half 60 admitting they had unrealistic expectations of becoming a mother social media 48 and tv and film, 46%, were the biggest contributors to this. Friends and family also pile on the pressure for many, with almost a third of women admitting that their own mother, 31%, was one of the reasons they had

unrealistic expectations when it comes to parenting. It's interesting, isn't it? And that source was from wild nutrition 1000 mums April 24 yeah it's so interesting and that's another thing as well you being a mum and having a life like who said I'm gonna have children and then that's it um that's me done. No. But. It's hard. And again, I don't mean this to sound sexist by any means. However, me and my brother, his job is very. Oh, it's very social. Client, social. And again, my job is a little bit like that as well.

Big social life. But I know for a fact I get criticised on Maria's out again. Yes. No one would ever say that about my brother. I I mean we do because we take the piss out of him but do you know what I mean like he's a guy he can get away with it that's his job whereas for me it's like oh Thursday

night Maria's Out yeah yeah but you have to do a lot of that networking but even if I'm not what if you just want to go out? What's wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with it. I like going out. When Eliza was younger, I went out more.

But then I was younger. Do you know what I mean? But now... It doesn't matter what age you are. No, it doesn't. If you want to go for dinner with your mates once a week, what's wrong with that? There isn't, but going for dinner once a week with your mates

costs money, doesn't it? Well, no, I know that's completely separate. But if you could afford it, all right,'re just gonna go for a drink one drink oh absolutely whatever or you want or you want to go and do some exercise or go for a long walk every night absolutely i'm still it's still the fact that you're like oh you're at oh you're out you're right because of the organization around wanting to go for an hour's walk of an evening if you've got children isn't going to happen. It can, but it will either cost you money,

you're pulling in favour, or fortunately, you're very fortunate that, you know, A, you've got a partner at home, or B, your partner's home from work and they're there at 5, 6 o'clock. I know, but again, like, I can imagine the Euros on, the amount of men, dads, that are like, oh, I'm watching the game. And that's probably just a, okay, that's fine. Oh, yeah, definitely. But I'm saying if it is the other way around, it would be, whether we want to admit it or not, it would be a little bit more frowned upon, wouldn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. And then you feel guilty because then you're like, oh, I shouldn't go out. So what am I allowed to go out as a mum? What, once a month? Is that okay? Because that's, I would never do that. No, I think you should be happy. And I think the more that you do what you want to do,

the happier a mum you are. I think that's a big thing as well. Just a bit of time to yourself, right? I love time to myself. I love having a nap. I don't feel guilty. There are some days where if I've got extra hours for my nanny, if I've got a day where I could be at home,

I will book my nanny in and I will go to an art gallery or I will do something on my own or see someone. I have no guilt for that. No guilt. I mean, it hasn't happened lately. I've been super, super busy. And then what happens is, for me, the list of priorities change. Because I've been so busy, I genuinely haven't seen the kids.

So therefore, my time that I've got left I want to see them but when I'm not so busy and it's sort of 40% work I then go right I'll have 40% kids and I want 20% of my time yeah I think do you think as well like maybe as they get older and you get maybe some things in common it's easier to do things together that you both enjoy. So actually then that feels like a bit more of your time. Definitely. And also the age mine are at now, so Joni will be eight soon, as you know. Eliza will be 14.

If we're at home on our own, I haven't got your life. No. I don't see them for two hours. Yeah. It's very, very different at this age you kind of it's much much easier in the home whereas you have ruby and alfie alfie's going to be five ruby's going to be three and that is hard that's a very very hard age yeah i mean i do i feel like it is getting easier but again they have their. But another thing about the guilt as well is spending quality time with either one.

Oh, absolutely. I don't do that. Was it last year? It's a nightmare. Alfie's birthday? Me and him had the day in London. That's right. Oh, my God.

It was the best day ever. I took him to see Big Ben. I remember. I took him to a dinosaur show. I said, where would you want to eat? You can eat wherever you want. He said, can I have spaghetti in a posh restaurant so I took him to Harry's bar in London it was the cutest thing in the world yeah all this spaghetti four if you don't mind yeah it was the cutest thing we had the loveliest day but I never do that no I never just say I'm gonna be

with Ruby for one day it is important But I'll have one of them. Yeah, no, no. You've got a great support network around you. But then again, you feel guilty because you're like, how can I take Ruby out for the day? No, you shouldn't. And leave outfit. Do you know what I mean?

It's a really good thing. But maybe as they get older, especially with a boy and a girl, they're into different, well, I'll say that. They're not. Ruby loves dinosaurs as well. Oh, bless her. But, yeah, you do. As they get a bit older, bless her. But, yeah, you do. As they get a bit older, you will.

But it's lovely to do that. But that is really hard. You are right. On Saturday, I'm taking Eliza clove shopping. Yeah. One of my lovely friends in the village is going to have Joanie. So does Joanie not mind? She doesn't want to come with you?

No. She's got no interest. She'll be absolutely fine. She'll be absolutely fine. She'll be absolutely fine. So that's good because you could have the case of Joanie being like, I don't want to miss out. I want to come. Yeah, no, she's very, very good.

I think I've never, ever treated Joanie as the same age as Eliza. You know, I've always had that age barrier. It's like bedtime. That is true, actually. It's like bed. That's good. There's never, ever been. There's always been a That is true, actually. It's like bedtime. That's good. There's never ever been. There's always been a, you're going to bed at this time because that's your age.

And she doesn't battle that. She's never ever battled it. Yeah, that's really, I've never thought of that, actually. Or if I'm going to go out with Eliza, it's because it's a grown up thing to do. Yeah. And it'll be your turn soon. But then we'll do things together that Eliza doesn't do, but Eliza can't do it. Yeah, she's not interested, is she? No. no but yeah saturday it'll be a lovely day i also love the fact that

joni will be with friends yeah as much as don't get me wrong she loves laura but you know it's not like i'm just giving her to laura yeah she's with her friends for the day so me and eliza are going to go to covent garden early and have a good few hours there, grab some lunch and I'm really looking forward to that, it'll be lovely So obviously we spoke about youngsters and all the day-to-day mum guilt which I'm sure all the mums will be able to relate to this and more so with Eliza at her age, what sort of mum guilt do you have at that age? Is there anything different?

It gets harder and harder and harder what the guilt or the age just the kid just the child no the biggest guilt for me is when you get them in from school you're going to do their dinner for me it's all about time management so my guilt comes from time so if i'm at home you get them in you're going to do dinner and then you think i've got to do joni's spellings joni's reading joni's piano then she needs to have a bath by the time i get her into bed i reckon it's quarter past eight half past eight i've run down the stairs i say eliza should we watch eastenders together or what do you want to watch and she's fed up because she's not seen me for an hour.

Right. And I feel very guilty, but there's nothing you can do. Nothing you can do. And some nights I'll get home and I have still got stuff to do on my phone. I was going to say, actually, I was going to just say that. What about the phone when you're on the phone sometimes? I know, but I've still got stuff to do. Yeah.

Or I'm emailing or I'm messaging someone, especially now with the pod. I'm getting better because I get so many lovely messages from you all, but it pings on my phone. So now I've put that on to the WhatsApp business is now on the laptop and I'm trying to not look on my phone and I do it all on there and put it into folders. So that's better. But it's just about splitting yourself all the time.

You're splitting yourself. But it's like even I will do it on the odd occasion I really try not to because I feel like I work my ass off but you know some colleagues at work I'll see them at night I'll check my emails they're working get it they've obviously got in bath time bedtime and then they're back on the laptops finishing work it's crazy and then you've got no downtime and i mean yeah when you're working five days a week the weekends are just not long enough are they well it's like i said to you as well earlier alfie with the that you can learn to play an instrument next year would love would love that he does football on a Sunday, swimming on a Monday.

For me, I'm like, that's enough. I would like him to do like, I've seen it, like some jiu-jitsu. There's one up the road, but it's like five o'clock on a Thursday. How am I going to do that? I know. And then I'd love the instrument thing, but how do you physically do it? I don't know how you physically do that. I can't believe some people and the amount of clubs they do. But a lot of people do give up their weekends,

and I am very selfish. No, not doing it. I feel like even the birthday party is stressful. Saturdays, Sundays. Yeah, all the time. I mean, to be fair, most of them have been on Sundays, but still, right, every weekend. But I think that I might be wrong,

but I do feel that's our upbringing a little bit, Maria, as well. What? In what respect? That weekends are precious family time. Yeah. I don't know, I might be wrong, but the Sunday, the cooking, having a nice dinner, being together. A lot of us get together at the weekend.

Some people don't have that. Some people's families live all over the country yeah that's true and maybe because as well we do have busy lives and there is always something going on but then some people just say well we can't do it the kids have got clubs this that yeah I mean I do wonder if Alfie was to really get into something I probably would be dedicated to it and would I be one of them mums to drive here, there and everywhere? I know, but some people come out of school, they've got taekwondo, swimming. But then if you're not working or you work part-time or you finish early,

then you can do it. You know what I mean? If I finished at three o'clock every day, I could do all that. Lovely. If you've got the money, it's all a fortune as well for people. Yeah, it's all a fortune as well for people yeah it's true hi now absolutely love the pod been a fan of yours for years just seen your story about mum guilt oh my god it's so bad how we constantly feel guilty i am a mum of two boys and it's non-stop both myself and my husband work full-time and he's up and out by 5.30am. So mornings for me are pure chaos.

We only have my mother-in-law nearby for help as all other family lives abroad, which is great for holidays, but crap for childcare and respite. I feel guilty all the time. We always make sure we do things as a family on weekends, either just us as a four or with friends and their kids. But on the very rare days where we might just be at home having a much needed lazy rest day, even the rarer days where we might get out for a dinner I feel so guilty my oldest son insists I put him to bed which is lovely and I do love it but sometimes it's also nice for his dad to put him to bed and I can't help but think sometimes if I wasn't on bedtime I could get

other things done and then I feel guilty for thinking that way so I get it I really really get it I get the bedtime so much like I again it's all about what time isn't it so if we're having a good evening and they're in bed at a decent hour early yeah I love reading a story I love even I love it but if it's late i don't want to be doing that sitting there for an hour trying to get them to sleep i know some of the mums are like oh no my kid just goes up to bed asleep i'm like sorry i have to sit with mine they're not going upstairs mine have never ever gone to bed on their own but that is mental well a lot of kids do eliza don't get me wrong she goes to bed on her own but I have to come up the stairs and kiss her goodnight. That's all right.

But I like that. I like that. That's what we've instilled, no? No, that's lovely, but I'm saying if you could just tuck them into bed, give them a kiss and go. Joanie's getting harder and harder. The older she gets. Don't tell me that.

She's getting harder. Takes me out and she's getting another book out and another book, and then she wants to talk. And then she wants to do a fucking Sudoku. And I'm like, it's quarter past eight, love. We've got to go to bed. It's just delayed tactics. No, I can't stand it.

But I'm hungry. I'm like, you can't be hungry. You haven't stopped eating. She goes, I'm so thirsty. And I'm like Mr. Gadget. I'm like, what? Water. I'm ready.

I've got everything she needs by the bed. I'm like, this one,'m like what Walter I'm ready I've got everything she needs by the bed I'm like this one this one food water honestly she can't get around me now

oh gosh she finds it hard to wind down bless her but really they should be able to lay there listen to a little Tony story thing read a book

what a waste of time they are yeah I know Tony's so Ruby she can't just lay there and listen to it. She just keeps changing the stories. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's because she loves playing and picking things up. No, I know, but I'm like, this is not for me,

so it's going to have to go in the cupboard. But yeah, the mums that say that the kids just go and get into bed, I'm like, okay. I wouldn't even mind if they just stayed in the room and did what they wanted, but just leave me alone. But they won't let me leave the room. No, it's never going to happen, I'm afraid. It's mad.

This is from Sophie from Liverpool. Oh, Nat, the mum guilt is constant. I can't win. If I work lots, I feel guilty. If I don't work enough, I feel guilty that there's not enough income for them. If I spend lots of time with them, the house gets too messy. And if I spend too much time cleaning, feel terrible that's so true it seems impossible to get the right balance thanks nat oh sophie so true what about when you're at home and you just

want to clean the house yeah and there's so many times where i just want to get on with it and i think well joni just is sat on her own watching TV so I need to sit with her but I really want to clean yeah it's not even that you want to but it's just so much stuff yeah to be done it is important I do think we can get swept away with the world and it's really easy to say but you know what as I say when Joni's not been well for a couple of days and I've been at home although I've done stuff and I've been busy, there have been really precious half hours where we've sat and we've done post offices. And honestly, her face lights up when I'm sat playing with her.

There's nothing better. And I don't care if you're going to Chessington. I don't care if you're taking them on holiday. It's the time, isn't it? That time with them is all they want. Well, it's funny. Yesterday, and again, it's the first time I've done this, which I feel guilty even saying.

Go on. Alfie was, I picked him up from school, whatever, I was finishing off work, and he got out his little laser quest thing. You put it round you and you shoot each other. Oh, yeah. Well, when I say we proper played, I'm running upstairs, hiding behind the bed.

He was in hysterics. Literally, we only did it for like 15 minutes. But he loved it. He loved it. And I was like, how have I not done that with him before? I'll bring that round Saturday because they'll love it. Yeah, it's actually really good. Yeah, I will.

Is it the white pack thing? Yeah, it's like the little triangle you have to. Yeah. It's really good. It's actually really good. But yeah, and even like, he's like, mum, will you play dinosaurs with me but i help him like build his lego and stuff but sometimes what you realize it feels like such a big task because you've got loads to do but even if you do 10 minutes yeah 10 minutes to them with undivided attention

they'll go and watch telly after that yeah they'll be absolutely bomb happy 10 minutes yeah it's true it's really important listen to this hi nat. Ten minutes. Yeah, it's true. It's really important. Listen to this. Hi Nat, love your podcast. Listen every week. It's my excuse to go for a walk. I saw you are talking about mum guilt.

I feel guilty for feeling like a need of a break all the time. I love my daughter, but some days are so hard. But I always say only good mums have mum guilt. Carry on the great work. Lots of love. Oh, I love that. That's lovely, isn't it? Yeah, that is lovely.

Yeah, because to be honest, if you're not feeling guilty, then... You're not giving a shit, are you? Quite frankly. This is like therapy. It is. Hello, just on the mum guilt. I have major mum guilt. My son finishes primary school on Friday and they put in a show and do all lovely things

and they also get piped out at the end of the day we live in Scotland and I'm working and I've tried everything to get it off I'm a nurse and I can't manage my husband is working away he doesn't feel guilty why is it always mums but my wonderful mum Harry's nanny will be there and to be honest he's probably delighted at that oh let's have a shout out for the grandmothers. Grandmothers and granddads. Stand-ins, crackers. Absolutely brilliant. And you're right, just for your child to see a familiar face, they'll be buzzing.

They so will. There's so many times where I've not been able to come to something and Mark's mum Jackie has stepped in and been here and Joanie's absolutely thrilled. She's actually happier that she's there and I'm not there. But also how lovely is that for the grandparents to be able to do that and do you know what, maybe one day we'll be doing that for our grandchildren. I hope so.

Or I'll be like, sorry honey, I'm on a Caribbean cruise, see ya. I always think that I'll be like the nan in Motherland. I genuinely think I will. I'll be like, sorry darling, I'm out for lunch. I'll be like, sorry, darling, I'm out for lunch. You'll be like, don't rely on me for childcare. I will be here. Oh, don't. Oh, but it is lovely.

It's lovely what the grandparents do. Well, also, like, what would a lot, I know not everyone, like you say, a lot of people don't have family close, but people that do, all the grandparents get involved with the childcare. Yeah, I mean, it blows my mind that. Well, yeah, because you've never had that. Never had it in my life. Well, no, you've got it a bit now with Jackie.

Oh, Jackie's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. But I'm saying she's not 10 minutes up the road. It's a lot for her to come over. But yeah, she's helping me. She's coming over next week for four or five days. It's godsend. Kids love seeing her.

But yeah, people don't know they're born. Some people don't pay for childcare. People people go to work full-time jobs married couple both sets of grandparents do all the child care blows my mind but then again that's got to come with some guilt as well because don't get me wrong as much as i love the grandparents and what they do for the children, but they're grandparents. Yeah. The kids need different stimuli. You know what I mean? It's nice to mix it up and be with kids their own age.

And so you've got that as well. Don't get me wrong, I get the financials and I'm sure a lot of us, if we had that free childcare, we'd all bloody take it. Yeah, yeah. But again, then you battle with that a little bit, like, oh, but now they're missing out on being at nursery. No, you're so right. Kids their age, having fun. It's absolutely, my mind is mangled.

It's mangled, people. You can't win. You cannot win. Yeah, it's really, really hard. We can just do our best. Good evening, my lovely. I'm a 54-year-old mother of three, grandmother of three. And my mum guilt is my grandson is three tomorrow.

And I feel so guilty that my 28-year-old daughter is going to look at these presents and think, hmm, she didn't spend that much on me now, did she? Is that every mum? Well, that is an age-old question isn't it the pressure of present buying for birthdays and stuff i mean i think that's another whole episode to unwrap well just how many is enough do you buy lots of little ones so they've got loads to open but then they need one big one it's the same as christmas isn't it yeah stockings big presents presents from parents presents from father Christmas it is endless but as a grandparent that's what you're there to do

spoil them don't worry about it again I never get that's one thing I've never felt like precious that you can't buy that I need to buy it for my child because I'm the mum and you know we're the mum and dad oh yeah if you want if someone wants to spoil like if my mum wants to mum and dad you Natalie you'd love to spoil the kids then I think there's nothing wrong with that yeah and times it's different isn't it like again hopefully one day we'll be able to do that for our grandchildren yeah now times are harder money's tight like we can't I'd love loads more i'd love to do we'd all love to shower people with gifts every day of the week but it's not happening so i don't think you should feel any guilt you've bought your grandson some presents and when they wake up tomorrow they're

gonna feel happy that nanny's bought them stuff however why do grandparents love to buy like really big presents i like to do that as well. So annoying. Lovely, but annoying. I mean, I've got about a thousand dinosaurs. One's nearly as big as the car. It is large. Yeah, it's big. He loves it, though. No, he does love it.

He does play with it. But yeah, I mean, it's like, how many more big toys can you fit in? We will do a present buying episode on the creep up to when the nights get darker. I'm not even going to say the word because we are in the summer and we're enjoying ourselves on mum gill it's like they know they can go to their friend's house they can go to cinema with their friends they go to all the parties all the school discos and everything and the one time that you need to go out it's like the biggest drama and they do the whole

I love you mummy I can't live without you I don't want you to go and it's so traumatic that you go away thinking oh my god I'm the worst mum in the world. And you have like a shit time. And then you come back. A, they've been absolutely fine. And B, the next day, like I said, like, can I go to Holly's house? And I'm like, but won't you miss mummy? Because you couldn't do without her yesterday. You were devastated.

You were so upset. You were this, you were that. Oh, no, I'm fine now, mummy. And you've gone out feeling like absolute shit the night before. I guess that's just having kids for you, though. Hope this helps. I think I remember doing that. Do you remember Eliza?

Yeah, she was so bad. She used to call you all the time. I used to have 32 missed calls from the home phone. How old was she? About Joni's age. Maybe a bit older nine maybe i do remember being out with you one night she just kept calling what is the point of going out there's no point oh i'll turn my phone off and now i'd give anything

for that phone call i'd give anything for that phone call. Oh, don't. I'd give anything for her to ring me up and say, and cry and say, Mummy, where are you? Oh. Everything changes, honestly. It's an absolute shit show. We're really positive people. I'm really, really sorry to keep saying that,

but I don't know how else to describe it. What do you mean? The emotions. The emotions of having toddlers that you're worried they're going to smack their heads and if they got a rash and then then they go through that stage and then you've got the heartbreak they go to school for the first day and then they're at school and then you've got all of that and they're fitting in and then they finish primary school and you can't believe it and then you just lose them god so if anyone needs contraception, just listen to this. Just listen to that little monologue.

It's such hard work being a parent. I think it is the hardest job in the world. Yeah, I was talking to someone about this the other day because I was saying that Ruby, when I've been dropping her at nursery, she's hanging on to my leg. Oh, you've not told me this. Oh, it's been awful. And I never had that with Alfie.

So I'm leaving nursery like crying. Oh, it's awful. And I've never had that. And she was good. Have they done? So when Eliza used to do that to me, they used to have to physically pull her. No, I can't do that. I won't let them do that.

They used to physically pull her off me. No. And then I used to stand downstairs crying. And they used to have videos. They used to say to physically pull her. No, I can't do that. I won't let them do that. They used to physically pull her off me. No. And then I used to stand downstairs crying. And they used to have videos. They used to say, stay there. Please stay there. And then about three minutes, I'd look at the video. She's fine.

No, yeah, they've called me a couple of times saying, Maria, she's absolutely fine. Sometimes I can get them, they'll get her and wave at the window. Oh, yeah, no, don't do that. I think she wants to do that. Oh, fine. A fair dose. But I hate leaving her crying she wants to do that. Oh, fine. Fair do. But I hate leaving her crying. It's really upsetting.

And also I'm like, I'm paying like £90 a day for you to be here. Enjoy it. She don't know that, does she? Poor little soul. So, yeah, it's just. It's just really hard. And I love my kids. Listen, I wouldn't change a thing.

I love being a mum but i don't i am the first but i'm sorry i'm not gonna it is a hard job really hard listen to this i've named this mum guilt nursery so uh let's see if this is up to our conversation hi now shenade and darby here mum girl absolute nightmare Full-time working mum of a two-year-old that goes to a full-time nursery and I work away quite a lot. Luckily, I've got a husband who's got a really flexible job like me,

but the kid's always ill. I'm hardly ever at work. When I am at work, there's always that balance, isn't there? And it's absolutely real when I'm working. working oh is your kid in nursery full-time oh I'd never put my kid in nursery full-time and it's like well how am I meant to afford to uh keep my house pay for shopping feed everyone etc etc and um getting easier as he gets older but uh yeah uh positive of guilt and uh sending him to nursery no messy play at home so at least the house stays tidier oh bless you yeah what can you do if you're working all the time and you need to need the child to go somewhere i don't

really get it you've got to do that but it's also like she said it's the guilt of I know we're talking about mum guilt but then what about the guilt of like am I applying myself best at work so you've got that as well yeah your child's not well you've got to go and pick them up you might have to work from home with your child there then you feel like oh people are going to think that I'm not really working you know what I mean then you've got that as well yeah I can't imagine that pressure because I've never really had that I mean I have been quite like I do I do remember it's hilarious isn't it it's like you go back to work after maternity and the timing is the kids start proper TV baby starts really teething, so they're not sleeping. Right, immunisations and all that.

Then you've got the start nursery, so they're all 24-7, so you're like, jeez, I've gone back to work, I'm exhausted, I'm trying to remember what it's like to work, and I've got to say, sorry, can I work from home or not work because of my child's ill. So you've got that as well. Yeah, I can't imagine. It's a battle with.

For you working mums that go into offices, get the train and all of that, and wherever you are, offices, NHS, teachers, all of you, you know, crazy stuff. Absolutely crazy. This message is possibly my favourite. Good afternoon, Natalie. Just a quick note about mum guilt. Oh, my God, it's the worst. I have a five-year-old little boy called Arthur and I have mum guilt every single day. I work full time and I've time from 4am onwards wow I think when I was training for half marathon I got up at half three one day

so that I could do a two-hour run before coming home to get everybody ready for work and school and I still feel the guilt I still feel the guilt let me tell you something if you're getting up at half past three in the morning to do a two hour run before you start your day you should have no guilt what time are you going to bed I need more information why do you feel guilty your kids are sleeping nothing to feel guilty about that's amazing good for you but also you don't you shouldn't have to get up at half past three agreed you shouldn't have to get up at half past three lots of people do again family friend of ours she'll get up go to the gym early gets it done and comes home and then yeah again maybe i'm just too lazy and selfish. Maybe I'm too lazy. I love my bed. What about, I've got one for you. So the going out, obviously, even if you don't go out

and you have a bit of friends around, a bit of a night in. Yeah, yeah. The feeling hungover the next day. That's bad, isn't it? Yeah, there's nothing like it. And that's pure guilt. Pure guilt. Because you just can't be spooked to do anything when you wake

up your head is pounding if we've had a ball game night or something here even you know and you've stayed those sorts of nights and then they're all jumping up in the morning jumping up all happy and you think i went to bed at five o'clock it's's so bad. We were listening to Kate Nash Foundations at half past four with a tequila rose. Oh, don't. I do remember once Alfie going to football and it was a Sunday morning and Ruby was only little and I just remember getting my duvet and laying on the floor downstairs.

Oh, it's the worst. I just prayed that she would stay alive for an hour. Something I want to bring up and I don't know if you remember, but do you remember the time, which I think was the only time really that I felt real mum rage, and that you saved Eliza's life? Eliza had an aversion to seams on socks labels seams on socks labels and seams m&s now do a whole range of seamless socks yeah yeah yeah whole range no labels no seams yeah they've caught on but we're going back 13 and a half years so that was an out then you could have earned loads

from that why didn't you think of that? Didn't think of it. But there was this one Sunday morning, bright Sunday morning and I was trying to get Eliza ready and she would not put these socks on and it was such a battle to get her to wear tights or socks. I was so infuriated. I was so angry

that I was at the point where I thought if I just picked her up and threw her out the window, what would happen? Now, I don't know if I can say this. No. But I'm telling you what my brain thought, I'm being honest. And I was saved by the bell because the doorbell went

and Maria and Elia were at the door. And I said, I'm going to throw this out the window. No. You just said, you better do something because I'm going to throw this **** out the window. We were like, what is going on? They ran up those stairs like a rat up a drainpipe. Straight up to my room.

Didn't you? You saved the day. I left you to it. And I think she was fine she got dressed yeah but I just had to be on my own but thank goodness you turned up I don't think I would have any harm would have come to it but that rage also and then the guilt you feel after that rage because well it's just reminding me of what I did the other day. You didn't throw her out the window? No, I threw her doll out the window. Okay.

So we're in my bedroom. What were they doing? They wouldn't get ready or they were just pissing, pissing about. And I said, Ruby, if you don't start listening, the baby's going to go out the window. Didn't. Anyway, I went to throw it. I didn't mean to throw it out the window.

It's gone out the window. Oh, no. It's my throw it out the window. It's gone out the window. Oh, no. It's my bed. Oh, no. It's not on the roof. Yeah, but it's on the extension. Yeah. Yeah, on the roof. Starts raining.

I was like, oh. Moldy dolly. So I was like, Alfie, what about if I hang you out the window? No, you didn't. You didn't do that. You wouldn't do that. You didn't say that to him. Yeah.

I thought it was a joke. He wouldn't do it. I hope he do that. You didn't say that to him. Yeah. I thought it was a joke. He wouldn't do it. I hope he wouldn't. No, it's safe. It's not. There's a roof. You can stand on it. I know, because your mum cleans the windows.

Exactly. But anyway, he wouldn't do that. So I was like, I'm going to have to get out. I'm going to have to go out. So I'm in my nightie and my um my hugs so I've got out didn't realize it's quite a drop all right couldn't get back in no shut up I'll leave have I not heard this though so out of order couldn't get back in I bruised all my leg what did you have to do like pull yourself up I couldn't I've got I'd love to see

what the neighbours thought but I couldn't I've got no upper body strength so I thought oh shit and then Alfie started to get panicky oh bless his heart

what was Ruby doing at this time just screaming from her doll just happy that she had the doll back she couldn't give a shit right so then I was like I heard myself I thought fuck what am I going to do Oh, bless his heart. What was Ruby doing at this time? Just screaming for her doll. Just happy that she had the doll back. She couldn't give a shit.

Right. So then I was like, I heard myself, I thought, fuck, what am I going to do? Because legit, I weren't, there was no way I was getting up there. Oh, please. Then I remembered. Did Alfie throw his Tyrannosaurus Rex, the large one, out? Did you step up on it? Alfie pulled me out. No, then I remembered I've got a step in the bathroom for the kids when they brush their teeth.

Yes. He went and got the step for me. Climbed back in. Left the step. Left that to leave the step, yeah. There's a step back in there. Yeah, no, I managed to get the pole thing to put it up. Brilliant.

How funny. Yeah, no, I did hurt myself though. Oh, bless you. But yeah, they do. They drive you to... Distraction. Distraction. bless you um but yeah they do they drive you to um distraction at least it was the doll and not the child saw your insta about mum guilt i am a third year student nurse my kids are 16 14 and 11

well done for getting through it they're all autistic on different levels of need. And the immense guilt I feel going on placement for 12 and a half hour shifts, three to four days a week, and then studying the rest of the week is so intense. It really does make me feel sad. I just feel like I miss out on so much, especially this time of year with leave as do, sports days exec, and then on days off, I'm catching up with housework or just so mentally drained that I physically can't do anything is there a better balance I hope so one day when I finish my degree it will all be worth it oh you're amazing you're amazing your children are older you've done all the hard stages they will be so proud of you for doing that degree. Incredible. And you're doing it for you, you're doing it for your children, the future. You should be so proud of yourself.

You will have guilt, but... You will look back. You'll have that degree and think, I cannot believe I've achieved that. What an achievement. It's amazing. I want to do a degree when I'm older. Older? When I'm older, yeah.

You are older. When I'm older than I am now. In what? Baking? I don't like baking. No, you don't like baking. Art history. Oh, okay.

I will do it one day. I'm going to do an OU degree in art history. If you do that, I'll learn an instrument. Oh, I want to do that and all. All right, shall we do that I'll learn an instrument oh I want to do that and all alright shall we do why don't we do that I've got a guitar

downstairs I've got a piano downstairs let's do guitar I'd love to play the guitar imagine smashing out a little Sheryl Crow on a Lannis

yeah it'd be good it'd be very good very very good I'm going to finish this with a message I got and I thought I know it's a bit random but we can be random

we're allowed this is a question that I had to give to Roro so you send me lots of different dilemmas this is made for Maria so here we go gold hi I've got a topic

that maybe you could cover on one of your amazing podcasts can you wear white or cream to a wedding as a guest Hi, I've got a topic that maybe you could cover on one of your amazing podcasts. Can you wear white or cream to a wedding as a guest? I've been invited to a couple of weddings this summer and chosen a lovely cream gold dress. And I have most of my friends saying I can't wear this or it's disrespectful or you may be mistaken for the bride. This has caused me so much stress and it's taken a long time to choose my outfit. I have asked one of the brides, and they said wear it, but I'm too scared now, thinking other guests will stare at me.

What do I do? Help. The reason I'm throwing this over is Maria is a fashion guru. I work in fashion. And she's also, she could arrange. And opinionate. No, no also she could arrange and opinionate no no she could arrange

a wedding standing on her head with her eyes closed so it's very wedding fashion all of that it's her question

trust me this is my remit go on um show me I ain't got a photo really how much gold in it yeah that's what

I would like to understand but do you know what I don't I think that is ridiculous. Like, you're not going to look like the bride, are you? Like, you're not there to upstage the bride. I think back in the day that was, what do they call it, a cardinal sin. Hang on, there's a little bit more here.

P.S. I've got a 10-foot veil. No, I'm joking. I've got a train. Is that what they call it, cardinal sin? What's that? I don't know. Google it. A serious error of judgment.

Back in the day, people would say, absolutely not. How can you wear white to a wedding? But it's the same as the way people get married and they have themes, don't they? So they'll say all their bridal parties in a certain colour. Some people would go, absolutely not, you can't do that.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Like, you're not there to upstage the bride. If it's like a mix with something, fine. Also, I think it would look quite nice in photos. Some people wear lots of bright colours and that, that cannot look... Yeah, I think a little bit of cream. That can look a bit garish sometimes.

A little bit of cream and gold. I'm quite... I'd be quite into that. Yeah. And also, the bride on their wedding day should really be having the best time of their life. If they're worrying about what people are wearing... They're not getting married to the right person.

Well, no, it's just a bit interesting. Agreed. But, no, I think you do you, girl. Well done. Yeah. There you go. Fantastic. Maria, thank you so much oh thank you

absolutely lovely wasn't it that yeah it was it was really really good and thank you honestly without you all we wouldn't have had NEP so thank you for all your messages

all your voice notes I hope we've helped along the way have a fantastic week I will be back on Thursday and yeah enjoy yourselves. See you later. Take care.

Bye. Hi, this is Chris McCausland. And this is Diane Boswell. And we've got a new podcast, haven't we, Di? We do. What's it called? Winning. Isn't.

Everything. Every week, me and Diane, we're going to be having a little catch up on the back of Strictly aren't we Di we are I've missed you Chris I've missed you too

we're going to talk some nonsense so why not tune in available everywhere you get your podcasts