Life with Nat - EP272: Natalie Cassidy’s Life with Nat… and Prime Minister Andy Burnham - let’s talk about care

Episode Date: October 14, 2026

Whatever your political views- this one is for you. Prime minister Andy Burnham opens up to me - Natalie Cassidy about his passion for care in this country and his plan of a National Care Service. We talk about Andy getting the biggest job in the UK and the very sad loss of his father. A really great listen and I hope you enjoy it as I treat all of my guests the same. Like family. ♥️Get in touch with Nat, buy tickets for upcoming live shows and link to Patreon, all the family's Instagrams, and more: ⁠⁠⁠lifewithnatpod.komi.io⁠⁠⁠ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello everybody and welcome to Life with Nat. I am in a very special place. You're not going to believe it. I'm at 10 Downing Street and I'm about to meet the Prime Minister. Yes, I know you're all screaming. 077-8-20-1919. Please let me know what you think of this. I am so proud of myself and you know usually I'm like, oh, it doesn't matter, nothing matters. This really mattered. And I can't wait to sit down and talk to Andy Burnham. So here we go. Prime Minister, welcome to Life with Nat. Oh, thanks. Let me on, Life with Nat. Tell me, because when I got the email to say this was going to happen, firstly I thought it was a joke. And then I thought, why on earth would the Prime Minister want to talk to me? Why did you want to?

Because of what you have done in relation to your commitment to care and exploring the issues in relation to it, raising the profile of all of those things. Yeah, I'm fascinated by your, well, and the same that I share, my passion for seeing care and carers, just having all of the issues they face talked about more. So I, you know, I think that's why we're here. Well, thank you so much, honestly. It's a complete honour. I had a lovely tour when I got here, so it's very exciting. Let's get straight into the National Care Service. Yeah. My listeners, I won't believe you're with me talking.

But I want to do this in layman's terms because I feel like a lot of people now aren't into politics and we want to get to the people that haven't got an interest. Yeah. And we want to simplify things. Yeah. I saw your conference speech. I thought it was fantastic.

My brother David said it was the best speech he'd seen in over 50 years. Really? Yeah. Well, thanks. I appreciate that. So there we go. Yeah. In terms of the National Care Service that you're looking to do in 20,

30. We have a national health service. Now, my dad was in and out of hospital. I looked after him. Yeah. Me and my family had a rotor. We would go in. We would be there. Yeah. And what I loved is you talking about people being in hospital for too long. Yeah. You'll know about that then, won't you? My dad, honestly, he's in hospital for way too long. Yeah. And he didn't need to be there. Yeah. A hundred percent relate to that. So what I would love to know is how do you see it change? Well, that is a crucial question, Nat. And I think you've put your finger on the heart of it, really, because what we have in this country is a situation where older people often are just drifting towards hospital because the care isn't right at the front end in their home.

And the people in the social care system, and I'm not criticizing them at all, it's the broken nature of social care means they are often told, if there's any problem, problem, ring 999. Yes. Because then you're passing somebody over, but you can be confident that then they'll be supported there, but it's not the right place for them. So the system is underfunded at the preventative end, but then the tide is dragging people towards the expensive end of the system.

That's wrong for those people, wrong for their families. It's not great for the nurses who are then dealing with all of the pressure. And the strain and... Yeah. It's working the wrong way around And I've really, like you, same experience. In fact, my brothers would go as far as saying that they had to move heaven and earth

to try and keep him out of hospital because it's like a vortex Once you're kind of in it, it just drags you in. You can't get out of it. And I remember they're going to a respite home for a little while. Yeah. Which was actually appalling. I was scared to leave him there.

Right. From hospital. Yeah. And then we got him some physical. And this is the part I don't understand. This is what I want to know. Because when he came out, we had a physiotherapist pop in every now and again. We had an occupational therapist come around to sort out, does he need bars?

In his home was that? In my home because he came to live in me. So those things were in place. How are you going to link the two up? Because a lot of people are saying the NHS, you know, is pretty broken at the moment. Should you not be fixing that before creating a new service? And I think that's what people are asking. And I understand why they would put it like that,

but the two are intrinsically linked. So broken social care is a major part of the problems that we're seeing in the National Health Service because people are going into hospital unnecessarily, adding to the pressure. But then if you take any given day in hospitals in England, you're looking at, I think it's thousands, possibly tens of thousands of people medically fit to leave hospital but unable to go home

because the care isn't there. So in the end, the health service can't recover to where we would all want it to be when social care is delivering so much pressure onto the NHS. And the answer that I'm putting forward is the whole of this system from home to hospital and back again should work to the same principle. of care that is there for people, it's preventative, it's of high quality, and it supports people in the best place for them in terms of their physical and mental health and their social well-being. The problem we've got is it's not like that at the moment. You know, care at the front

end is charged for, means tested, and it's often very poor standard because of the failure to invest at that level. Hence, it can't be made to work in people's homes. and then you've got all of that dragged towards the NHS and all of the pressure that it brings. So therefore the NHS can't be what we would want it to be until you fix it. Because of the pressure until you fix the social care. Yeah, and you have to have a situation

where both the care system and the health are talking the same language. So you can just optimise. If somebody does have to go into hospital because of an infection, the minute they're ready to come home, they should be home straight away. And that's all linked up and it's, you know. Yeah, and no delay and all linked up

and all working to the same. set of principles. It's a huge undertaking. Yeah. And we hear leaders talking the talk all the time. Do you really think you can deliver it? Well, I'm going to give everything I've got to delivering it, because if I go back 25 years ago when I was a new MP, I saw my grand go through the care system, and I talked about this at the conference in the speech, but you're really kind enough to mention. And it wasn't good enough then. And I remember saying, I said it as a minister, as a minister, health secretary. I said, you know, I cannot accept that my parents' generation

should go through the same broken care system that my grandmother went through. I tried to fix it back then. This was 2009, 2010. And here we are 15 years later. And politicians of my generation have shown utter cowardice when it comes to this issue. You know, what could be more basic

than the care we give to each? other, the care for each other's parents, people who are vulnerable. And politics is saying it can't fix it. It's too difficult to fix. Well, I just don't accept that that is... Well, you said you're going to rip the plaster off. You've got to go in, haven't you? Yeah, you do. You've got to do difficult things. And I've started with what I've said about the triple lock, but that's not taking something away from pensioners. People do think this, don't they? You know, I'm a regular listener to LBC. I'm one of you, and you're listening away. People feel like you're going to take something away to give, can you explain that? Explain to me again about the triple lock and how

that's going to work, because everything's remaining the same, isn't it, for this Parliament at the moment? For this Parliament? So I will, and the reason why I've done it like that is to protect trust in politics because, you know, that was in the manifesto and therefore I'm not going to sort of break that promise. But what it means is the triple lock would change in 2030. And the reason why I think it is right to do that, the triple lock at the moment. The triple lock at the The three things in that lock are pension should go up by average earnings. Yep. Prices or inflation or 2.5%.

So what that is doing is, it's what people say, ratcheting up the pension. So the pension is going up and up and up because every year one of those things is taking it to the highest level. So the pension by 2030 would be at record levels. and it is about maintaining it at that good level by having an adjusted triple lock. So you have prices and 2.5% are still the annual thing that you're using. But over time, you'd keep adjusting it so earn, it's still keeping pace with earnings as well.

But that does save money. Yeah. It starts to unlock significant billions. And that goes to the National Care Service. And I think that, in the end, is a better deal for pensioners. You'd hope people would think that. You know, they'd think actually. The polls seem to suggest that people did understand what I, which is great.

And I'm so grateful that people have engaged with what I'm saying. Because sometimes politics works in these soundbites. And I put forward something quite complicated there. But you have to do if you're going to solve this issue. And the thing is, if you just think about someone's pension, people pay care charges from that pension. That pension is means tested if you need care. Absolutely, yeah.

And then you'll know that. Well, I'll know. yeah, my dad, he didn't have major amounts of money in the bank. But he was over that threshold. And then we had to pay, and he didn't have much, so I helped. But you see what I mean. So if you just look at the pension and not at the care, in the end, you're not properly looking after older people.

And particularly in this century, you know, where people will be living longer, and that's a really good thing. You want a system that gives them full peace of mind, don't you? You don't have to have, you know, a situation where we're paying from our parents' bank accounts or, you know, all of that quite complicated stuff about power of attorney. I don't know if you had to go through that with your dad, but that's not a great thing. I think when any illness happens, you're in pieces. You and your family are going through the worst time ever, as you well know,

and then you have all of that other stuff to deal with. And it would just be so wonderful that that would be taken away and it would all work together. Completely. And that is part of it. You know, I would like a system where, you know, don't have to worry about that stuff, you know, because the care is provided, as I say, like NHS care when you need it. But let's be honest, and I go back to my experience with Dad. Yeah. I think there was a day where maybe I'd not been at the hospital for three hours.

Yeah. And I walked into my dad and he looked horrendous. And we'd found out that unfortunately the saline drip hadn't been changed. And if I hadn't walked in at that time, I'd really, really don't know what would have happened. And me and my family sit around tables now and say if it wasn't for us, we believe we prolong Dad's life four or five years. Mistakes happen. I know because of the strain. When Dad was in hospital in wards, I'd be, I'm a talker.

I love people. And you'd have these. I'm getting that. You know, I'll chatter. And there'd be an old boy in a bed across the road. And he'd be on his own all day. And, you know, you'd be broken-hearted. And I'd say, I'd go down and get him a Lucasade.

Go down and get him a nourish. drink and you'd end up making friends. Yeah. People that are on their own with no one, how is this going to work? How is the government, you and your team, going to know every single individual who is in hospital or at home what they need?

That's my biggest thing. Yeah, I mean, it gets harder, doesn't it, if people don't have that support? What I would say is, I think we've also got to make it better for family carers. So in my situation, I think my mum did feel like she was on her own at times.

I mean, she would ring us for support, but we weren't always there because of the jobs me and my brothers do. But sometimes people are struggling alone. She was getting the 15-minute care visits, but as my dad's knees got bigger, they just weren't enough to cover the, and then it would unleash chaos, actually, and she would then have to pick up all the pieces.

And also, if your mum can't, have a little bit of respite and time. You can't look after anyone else. Well, exactly, but that's what was happening. I think sometimes, I hate to put it this way, but sometimes people look at the person who's got the dementia or whatever it might be and they don't see what's happening to the person around who's, you know, and I think, if we're honest, we took a while to work out that my mum really couldn't,

was not in a sustainable position. What we've got to get to, in my view, is a very different model of home care, people being supported in their own home. And it's a model that's going to help family carers make it sustainable. It can't be done in this broken down 15-minute visit situation. No. But the thing is when people will ask me, well, how do you pay for it? The cost that you can release from the NHS

by having a more preventative model of care in people's homes is significant. Significant billions can be released from that. I do think it should be very person-centered to pick up your point. The best social care should look at the whole person. Always. I did my course in health and social care. I went to Stephenage College and I did a level three. And I got a distinction just so, you know, and I'd not been to school. I said at the start to you.

It's amazing what you've done. Thank you. No, genuinely. Thank you. And I think the fact that you're talking about these issues. For me, sitting with you today, it's not about politics. No. It's about a subject.

that I'm so passionate about, because as you say, we will all need care, we're all going to go through it with a loved one or ourselves. It doesn't really matter who's sitting here, no disrespect to you. I'd be saying the same thing. It's very, very important, you know? And as I was saying to you, though, before, if politics can't fix something as fundamental as this, then people will rightly say, well, what uses it? What can it? What can it do?

And the thing I want to just say is a shout out again for the people who work in social care. Oh, well, we're going to get onto that? No, we, I hope so. I promise you, because that's the, that's the biggie. That was the thing that really stays with me. I'm, being honest, I was up my dad's funeral on Friday, and it's still not quite there after it. You know, it's still, you know what I mean when I say that. But some of his carers who were in his care home were there, and I just think...

They're angels. It's incredible, though, isn't it? But they're trying to live on poverty pay, because that's what it is, caring for other people's parents holding a broken system together and they can still turn up at his funeral. I'm just like it's unbelievable how badly they've been let down by the people in my profession over a long, long time. I was a sandwich carer, a term which I only found out when I did my course. I had two young daughters. I had a full-time job at EastEnders. Yeah, yeah. And I had my dad. I was pulling my hair out, you know, and all my brothers again, like yourself, everyone's got careers busy. And I found a

local private carer and I was lucky enough to be able to pay her, you know, afford it. And she was our angel. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what I would have done without her. Getting onto the carers, before we do that, you just spoke about your dad and I am a caring person. You've landed the biggest job in the country. You've moved, you've relocated, and you've had a huge loss. I am very, very sorry, but you had two days off

and now you're here with me after the funeral. How are you feeling? Just forget, just put it all out the way. How are you? I said last week, I don't want to seek sympathy through it, you know, because I don't know. You know, I've got a big job to do, and I am focused on it.

I know, but you are a human being as well, Prime Minister. Thank you. And it's been hard just because, you know, when I walked up that street for the first time to come into this place. You know, I knew that my dad was, you know, reaching the end of his journey. And it was hard and I, you know,

my mum was on the street and everything. So the coming together of those two things has made a hard, what would have been a hard thing, intensely hard at times. And particularly, actually, I found it most hard in many ways in the last few days. But I'm not saying to seek sympathy. And actually I have drawn

some power from it because I put that power into my conference speech. You did. You were so passionate. And I just thought to myself, everything you were saying about care and the passion that you had is because of what you've been through with your dad, Roy. And you can see it. I hope you didn't feel it was wrong because I was, you know, you always are conscious in this position that I'm in that, oh, you're using it for effect. But it's not. That's happened at this time. It's not your, it's very, very, very. I had to decide, you know, I thought, well, you know, I could give a speech from without referencing it, but that wouldn't be me, to be honest.

I just, I'm not that kind of person. So I felt I had to, but also to channel it for the good of those carers that we were talking about a moment ago, you know, to speak about the people who cared for him. Yeah. I was aware of, you know, people working in social care, but it's only when you watched them caring for your own mum or your own dad that you see what they do through new eyes and...

I completely, completely agree. The warmth, the humour, the humanity, the skill, the professionalism. The empathy is probably the word that... And everyone I've seen in care, the placements I've done, it's everybody has empathy. And you just... There's some of the best people in this country, aren't they? And they are, to be honest, they're kind of the heart and soul of the country.

They are the heart and soul, and we need to treat them better. We do. Are you planning on the National Care Service for better pay? Are you planning on this? Because you want people to go into this passionately and see it as a lifelong career, not as down in the gutter, you know? I'm not going to avoid that question because that is a crucial question. And the answer is, yes.

So if you talk about integrating these two systems, health and social care, I think it starts by having an integrated workforce. And particularly having a situation where a younger person perhaps could start off in care, but then progress up through the bands and perhaps go into... Managerial or into the NHS or into nursing or physio or... Yeah. So that there's progression from... So at the moment, it can feel like a dead-end profession because it's treated very differently

to people who are on the NHS pay progression system. So for me, the first thing is you do is you integrate it. And if you're going to get the quality preventative care in people's homes that I was talking about, people have to have a degree of security in their life to be able to do it. So this is the thing, isn't it? How do they do what they do? if you've not got security in your own life, how are you going to pass on a sense of security

to the people in your care? At the moment, one of, you know, people who was caring for my dad was actually technically homeless, living, you know, in a, you know, I think a mobile home at the time. Right. And it's like...

It's crazy, isn't it? But how? You know, it's just all the more miraculous that people can do what they do and still convey a sense of, security to my dad when their own life was in that. But how have we let this happen? Honestly, the way I keep thinking about it, how have we let it happen that people are in that position,

providing that service, have pretty much nothing of security in their own home life? Well, Prime Minister, you're here now, and you are very, very passionate, and I genuinely wish you all the success in getting this done. And I look forward to meeting with you and chatting with you again, and I'm going to keep my hand. Well, I'm really grateful to you, honestly, I am, and your podcast and what you've built, and your own commitment by going and training and putting yourself in the shoes of the kind of people I was just talking about.

I think that's an amazing thing that you've done. And it won't be an easy road from here to the National Care Service. I'm just going to be honest about that. And I think people listening or watching this will know that. But I want to keep explaining why I'm doing it. and what is at stake and how we're going to do it, just to take people with, I will need people to come with me on this journey.

So I would love to come back on periodically to tell you how I'm getting on with it. I do think we need to think about it from first principles. I'm not sure as a society we're set up at all yet to support people with dementia. It's a shocking journey really when you get a diagnosis and then you're told, but there's nothing we can do. You're on your own, aren't you?

You are. You know, we have a situation where the world is set up to support, you know, when you hear the word cancer and everything clicks in and that's great and it should be like that. But we won't be ready for the 21st century until we support people with dementia as well as we support people with cancer. And that in the end is what we've got to do. Absolutely.

Thank you so much. You're so welcome. Thank you to you. Thank you for coming in. I grab just those silly bonuses? Yeah, of course. Just really quick. They're so silly, but they're just from my listeners.

It's not boring. It's not boring. They're going to love it. Our listeners will go. They won't believe it. No worries. Prime Minister. How do you take your tea? Strong.

Yeah. Northern. No sugar. Milk in first, which annoys everybody, but I don't know why. Lerking first. I know. Do we leave the tea bag in for a good while? Good while.

Fantastic. Yeah. Do you like to cook? I do. I'm actually pretty good. Oh, brilliant. Yeah, even though I say it myself. Is it kind of your relaxation?

It's partly that, yeah. I do, obviously with maybe a beer or two at the same time. A little glass of wine on the side. Yeah, yeah. But no, I do enjoy doing that. What's your favourite meal to cook? I'm a pretty good roast. Oh, Sundays.

Yeah, I do enjoy roast. It's a bit of a hassle of roast, though, isn't it? But it's a long day in the kitchen with a radio on. I know. I like it. It's fantastic. It was part of my routine. can do a pretty good curry as well.

Favorite meat with the roast, sorry? Beef, always beef. Yeah. Television. Yes. Do you get any time at all to watch telly? And if so, what are you watching? I do a bit.

This is where it could get very boring, because in my job, I just want to switch off from everything. So what's the kind of program where you're just not going to get any politics coming in? I just watch sport of any kind. I know that's a predictable answer. No, it's not, no. I will literally, I can get into anything. Any sport?

Any sport. You know, the Winter Olympics, I'm into the curling. Yeah, yeah. Do you like the darts at Christmas? I do. I very much like the darts at Christmas. That's a staple in our house. Got Luke Lippler from, not far from me.

So we're always behind him. Oh, brilliant. But yeah, rugby league. I was watching last weekend. And you're a huge Everton fan. I am a huge Everton fan. I'm an Arsenal fan, I'm afraid, so we won't chat. Did your dad leave that behind for you?

He did. Mine did for me. Yeah, absolutely. We had no choice at all about that. We're pleased to see Mikhail Artetta doing a good job for you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I mean, I'm not massively Ophay.

I used to walk up to Highbury. I'm from Islington. So I used to wander up the road and I've got great memories. What are the majority of the EastEnders? Are they all asking? No, there's a few Arsenal, quite a few spurs. West Ham, no? Lots of West Ham.

Yeah, yeah. You would associate it. with West Ham. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. No worries. Silly bonus questions

that my listeners will love. And this is a present for you. Thank you. That is a trolley token, a life when that trolley token. What? When you've not got a pound on you? When you haven't got a pound?

Oh, that's an absolutely brilliant thing, yeah. All right. The little near me where I live, keeps catching me out. Although, yeah, I won't now, so I will be all right. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Well, there we go. I have just given Andy Burnham a little cuddle. I've said goodbye to him and just what a lovely man. And you know that I speak to everybody as they are sat in the lounge. You know, it's a family pod, as you know. He reminded me a lot of my brothers, David and Tony, because of his age. And we've just had a really lovely, kind, warm chat, honest chat.

And I really do wish him every success. And remember, 077, 28, 20, 19, 19, Let me know what you thought of it and I'll see you very soon. I'm off for a lie down. I can't believe it. So I had my lie down. Yes.

And how are you feeling now after that? I didn't really have a lie down. No. I was continuously on the phone and talking to you on the phone on the drive home and... Yeah. Just a very excitable afternoon.

Excitable afternoon. Yeah. Well, morning. Yeah. It was... I can't believe. I genuinely... sitting here now, listening to it, watching it,

I can't believe I was in Ten Downing Street. Why? Because who would have ever thought two and a half years ago that that would have been the case? When we started this, how on earth have I got to interview the Prime Minister? Well, I think we need to go into that

because that is, I mean, you're not wrong. It's the most random thing ever. I've been going around telling people about it I mean on the day itself I was with someone who knows you very well and she stood like right next to me and at work she was an actress

and she had to keep starting this scene from standing next to me and I couldn't not tell her and I said you'll never guess what Natal is doing right now and then she'd like do a take come back again she'd be like

what's she doing get to do the next that's well have a guess who's asked to be on the podcast and then she'd do another take

and then she'd come back and say I don't know and do you know something really funny I've said to a couple of people you'll never guess

who Natalie has got on the podcast do you know four people now have said is it Ricky Jervase well you did Exactly.

In the kitchen. When I first got the email through, you got home from work and I said, I'm so, I absolutely can't believe this. Yeah. Who do you think it's about the podcast? There was words to that effect. I don't think you quite said it like that. No. You said, you're never going to believe in a million years who's contacted me to get on the podcast.

Everyone has said, Ricky Jervais, straight away. Really? What's people that said that to you as well? Most people have said Rickens-Jubber. Yeah, because they know I love him. How funny. This is such a different thing. And obviously it is a lot to do with my care documentary. And because of the Prime Minister's plight, if you like, for the National Care Service. So it all just sort of slotted into place.

Was there a little bit of you that thought maybe the WhatsApp numbers like one digit out from the News Night One? Yeah. Maybe there's some little error that's happened somewhere. I genuinely, I think his team are obviously very, very good and they're very astute and they're on top of things. Do you think one of them or two of them are maybe listeners? I'd hope so. Strange.

They were very, very lovely people. Yeah. But maybe someone caught a bit of the documentary and put two and two together. I'm not sure. Maybe. But to see it in Ten Downing Street with the Prime Minister, and to talk to him for half an hour was really, really special.

I felt very nervous. You know, I get nervous about everything. So at the beginning, I did feel a bit nervous when he came in. But after two minutes, I could have been sat with you. I kind of wish he was in here. That would have been a bit much, though, wouldn't it, from him to come to hours to do it? Yeah, he's quite busy.

Probably saved a bit of time you going there. Did it go really quickly? when you were talking to him. It felt like five minutes. Yeah. I couldn't believe it when someone was sort of saying, wind it up now. Right.

It's obviously his schedule is so tight. Yeah. And I thought, I've not even scratched the surface of what I wanted to do. But I think, I think, you know, I think we did well. And I think the content was good.

And I think people will enjoy it, even if they're not political, I hope. I said, I think it's really important for people to listen. A lot of people don't like politics. They're not into it. And I think it's nice for politicians

to be able to come on to podcasts, and it's another means of getting to people that maybe wouldn't watch news night or listen to the rest is politics, for instance. So I think it's a very clever move. And his team are very, very clever about his social media as well. They know that's the way to go.

But also, you know, it was a really interesting chat that you had with him And it was nice to hear the policies and the ideas moving forward on what is really quite a serious subject. You're not really chatting politics, are you? No. I mean, it could have been any other person. That's what I said.

And, you know, it doesn't really, it's not a political thing, is it? No. You've just happened to speak to the person who happens to be the prime minister at the moment. Yeah, because the cause is greater than anything to do with politics. And it's an area that you fully understand. Because you've not only recorded a huge documentary on the whole thing, you're qualified in that exact sector. And it's something that's very dear to your heart

as you've experienced with your dad. So, I mean, all joking aside, I mean, it's crazy that he came on your podcast, but at the same time, you are exactly the right person for it. Yeah. He also said that, you know, he wants to come on every now and again to tell me how it's going. him.

He did say that, but that was before he had the debrief of his people afterwards. So, I mean, he might be up for that. You might have to message him directly as opposed to... Drop him a little DM. Maybe, yeah. I think he's so passionate about it, and he really enjoyed our conversation. Yeah. And he knows how passionate I am.

And he also knows that I'm someone in the public eye and I've got followers and all of that. I genuinely think he will keep me up to date. Well, I think the fact that he chose to come on your podcast speaks volumes about your listeners. Because at the end of the day, the only reason he could possibly go on your podcast is to speak to your listeners. It's true. So I think everyone listening to this needs to bear that in mind. Obviously a valued member of the audience. Well, I'd love to, I would really love to hear everybody's thoughts.

I said it in my outro down in street, but honestly everybody, 0778-1919, listen to it. It's obviously a very different podcast to what we usually do sit in here. But I would love to hear from carers and people who have cared or are caring and what you think about it because, you know, it could be really, really good. And we just have to see, we just have to see what happens. Sorry, when you say it could be very good for policies, but he's pushing forward. The National Care Service that he is wanting to introduce would be really great. I just don't know how we get there.

I don't know how we get there. Yeah. Well, that was one of the questions that you posed was sort of how do you address it. And he did say that the two things kind of go hand in hand. Yeah, he did say they were intrinsic, but at the same time the National Health Service needs a lot of work also. Yes. But I like, I have to say,

I thought there was a lot in him suggesting that going for the National Care Service would how it would relieve some of the stresses on the NHS was a fair point. Very much so. So as of all of these things, in theory they work excellently. It's just how you implement it and how they work in practice.

And they have got, I listen to LBC after doing the podcast and there's lots of different cogs now that they're talking about to try and release some money for it. So they're not just saying it. They are thinking about where is the money, money going to come from because it's billions and billions, but they are thinking about it.

So we'll see. But I suddenly enjoyed going there. I thought he was really human, a nice human being. And he's just had a huge loss of his father and he only had his father's funeral the Friday before the Wednesday that I saw him. So, you know, he had about two days off, I think, after his dad died. So again, he's cracking on with stuff, going for a lot. And that's why I asked him the fact that he relocated, got the biggest job ever and lost someone, how you're doing? It's quite important to just put everything else aside and look at a human being, I feel.

But even after the interview, which obviously I think people might like, the microphones went down, but he did stand with me for a good five minutes. It's a shame, really, because that could have been more of the chat, couldn't it? I know. But, you know, it was what it was. But he didn't rush out. And we were talking and spoke to him about his father. It's when he found out he was, you know, he was going off to like a little party or he's going to go to the cinema then.

No, I think he had quite an important afternoon head, actually. Have you seen what's been going on this week? Weren't the news? He's had quite a lot going on. I have, yeah. Yeah. I do watch it. I certainly do not subscribe to LBCV though, Natalie.

You need to give that up. I'm not giving it up. Be so rude. Getting a bit obsessed with that. No, I love my Nick Ferrari in the morning. James O'Brien at tent. I won't carry on because I'll have a go at me. Yeah, I mean...

A little bit of Sheila. What a lot. Don't get me start on it. Tom up four. It's really annoying. Andrew Morris, 6. She can't go wrong. Really annoying.

And in Dale... There are people listening to this. Screaming. I like it because what I love about it, it's... For anyone listening, doesn't know what we're talking about, because it's very London centric as well. Yeah. It's a London radio station where they just talk politics continually until it's the most depressing

thing you could possibly imagine. Well, it really is. I like it because it's balanced and you get different views from different people. It depends what show you're listening to. Yeah, well, that's what I mean, but throughout the day it is balanced, I'd say. I don't think he took kindly when you said you were an LBC listener. I'm not sure. I bet he wax it on. I bet he doesn't. I reckon he does.

But he said, the last thing he wants to do is listening to politics. I mean, trust me, he doesn't listen to what we see. No, fair enough. Really not. Last thing he's going to do, I can't do it, and I don't work in politics. Well, you know that I've always really liked question time and news night, haven't I? Did a little bit of you feel like you were kind of, you know. Jeremy Paxman?

Maybe not Jeremy Paxman. Laura Crensberg? Yeah, a political, you know. know, a little bit. And then I thought, I really enjoy that. And maybe that's what I would have done. Maybe I would have gone to, I wonder if I would have done politics at university.

I don't know. But I do really, I did enjoy it. And how did you feel, you know, I said to you that when you walk past Downing Street? Yes. I said, but lucky, once a year, I often do that. So you go through the black gate. Yes. turnstiles and you go through that airport bit

and then you're through. Yes. It's like a film set, isn't it? Yes. And what's funny, the first time I walked through, you go through the bit where people sort of gulp through the railings and you just, there's normally a policeman there and you, there's loads of people there. Quite a lot of protesters. Yes. Lots of shouting. Lots of protesters there, funnily enough.

And you go through the gate and then, as you say, you go through like an airport style detector. and by the time you got yourself all back together and you've done the scans, you're sort of all of a sudden walking out and you glance over and all you actually are now in front of number 10. Well, I found it quite interesting

because I went through and I thought, well, where is it? There's a little walk, isn't there? Really, the first time I saw it, it was suddenly there. Oh, no. You actually were looking for it. I thought, where is it? Right. Which I quite liked.

And then we rang the bell. No one opened it. Did they not? It wasn't straight over. Did you do the photo before? Afterwards. Right. And they promoted it.

Yeah. Because we had it where we used to walk past and you sort of like walking to the road and do a photo. And normally I'd be walking if someone I was working with and we'd do a photo each. But you'd never quite get to the doorstep. But I remember one year doing the photo and the door opened and the policeman said, get on the actual step and do it properly. You know, they were sort of saying, you know, which is funny. Well, I thought everybody at 10 Downing Street were absolutely super.

And I wonder if you'll listen, but a big, big shout out to Ben. Because he took myself and Emma and Scott on a tour. Right. And he was brilliant. He's sort of the front of house guy. Now I'm questioning if it was a Ben to do this all the time. Yeah. I'm sure his name is Ben.

Anyway. Text him, Ben. The front of, he was really great. Right. So that was a wonderful experience before. doing the interview. Did a little bit of you think of Caleb going and getting told off from knocking on the door too hard when you pressed a bell?

No. Oh, I did when I walked off. I'm not being rude. Don't compare me to Caleb. I'm just thinking it's like being in a film film show. I like Caleb, but... The people that have walked through that door. It's crazy, isn't it?

Yeah, I mean, I can go much further into things, but I think we'll save that for a little Patreon with Emma. Well, Emma was with you, obviously. So she did for tour round. She was with me and it was Promenorraine and I want to have a little debrief with Emma with you though so you can ask us some questions which I think could be quite fun.

I've got a lot of behind the scenes questions I want to ask you. Excellent. So I can't do those now? No, no, let's save those. Save those with Patreon because this has been probably one of my most serious special podcasts and I really don't want to ruin it

and for anybody who is listening who hasn't listened to Life with Nat none of the pods are like this. again, turn over to the rest is politics. Well, you never know. Well, I could have, who knows? You might gain some listeners. You never know.

You might lose some listeners. I don't think so over one episode. I don't know. And it's a very important subject that people are passionate about. Did you, just one little spoiler? Yeah. I'm going to ask you. When you presented the Prime Minister with a trolley token.

Yeah. Did he look at you as if I've really, really don't know what this is for? Or did, there was a little glint in his eye where he might secretly be a listener? He did not know what it was for. And then very quickly, he was like, is this when you haven't got a pound? And he thought it was genius, actually. It's genius?

Yeah, and I said, pop that on your key ring. Right. And he said he was going to use it when he goes to Liddle in Manchester. Okay. Well, anyone who knows a Liddle, you don't put the pound in for a trolley at Liddle. Might do. Don't think you do? Might do.

Not an hour one, you don't? Well, that'll be in it. That's it now. That's loads of messages coming in. I think it depends where it is. Okay. It's like Brookfield. Well, it may be...

Brookfield, you don't have pound coins. Harlow you do. No, Brookfield, it's like 50 pound notes. You've got to put in the thing to get the trolley out. But I'm saying it depends where it is. Okay. So... But I just wondered, does that be the giveaway?

Because if he immediately got it, you'd be like, Oh, is this? I don't think he listens to the pod. That's a shame, that. However, he might do, he might do going net forward, maybe. He might do. I'm not sure if,

he's a big sport, sport lover. Did you get a chance to ask him about steam engines if he's interested? Didn't mention the steam engine thing. I mean, there were quite a lot of things I didn't mention. Such as?

Just loads of things I would have liked to because the time went so quickly. But I just can't believe little old me from Islington, I wish my mum and dad were here. I have to say I did think, oh, I'd love to tell my mum and dad what I've just done. I notice you got your brother in straight away. Well, because David actually, he's so into it all. And he genuinely did say to me, could you tell him that I think it's the best party political

conference speech that I've heard for 50 years? So I thought, well, I'll get it in. Nice way to come in, isn't it? With a little compliment. Yeah. Which is true. So hopefully David will like that. But yeah, what a lovely, what a week really.

I mean, what I would ask is where do you go from here? You've had the Prime Minister on life of Nat. Yes. Surely you've got to aim for a bit of royalty now. Well, I would love the Queen on. Well, she's a bit of a fan of yours. I would like to get the Queen on, Queen Camilla, because she does ever such a lot of work for,

domestic violence. And she knows you. And she does know me. We are buddies. And those of you. I mean, do you reckon, I mean, I know the king, I know the queen. I know the prime minister now. Is that quite special?

Or do loads of people know that? There are loads of people who know them, isn't there? It's not that special, is it? Sorry. Well, you're asking if someone knows all three of them at the same time? Yeah, yeah. Sort of is that... Know them?

Not know them, but have been acquainted. And I think if I went up to the king or queen and say, do you remember the visit at AlbuS Square? Well, I'm sorry, she came up to you. Yeah, she did, yeah. And told you that she's watched you on the telly since you were a little girl. Yeah, that's true. She definitely knows who you are.

No questions. Well, maybe I can get her on because I'd love to talk to her about her work she does for domestic violence. Well, there you go. If someone's listening, you know, and also now, you've kind of set the standard. Well, at least I can send a little clinton. clip. Yeah. And so I had the PM on.

Yeah. And I just wondered. Well, it certainly, you certainly weren't sort of scraping the barrel with, um,

with Andy Burnham, were you? No. But anyway, for anyone listening, don't worry. Uh, I'm not going to go

all posh and just have loads of people on that you might not be interested in. We're, uh, but back to normal, back to normal next week. Um,

and hopefully a sprinkling of special guests going forward. So it's lovely. They would be really nice, I think, to, to, hear what people thought of you talking to him.

And just being there, wasn't it? I was very proud, but I heard it. I was really, like, I can't believe you've done this. And I thought, and you must have been very nervous. And the way you conducted yourself, where you are stuff, it was brilliant. Thank you. It was really, really good to hear. It was really nice, really just, yeah, amazing thing to have done.

I mean, it's hilarious as well, because once again, It's no different to when Joanie got a direct message from Alan Carr. Yeah. And she was all very sort of, uh, whatever. I mean, her mum's spoken to the Prime Minister. An Eliza. Not bother at all, are they? Not a dicky bird out of them.

It's bizarre. It's good. It keeps me grounded. Well, yeah, but I'm more worried about them. I mean, the fact that they're, I mean, how do you impress your, I mean, genuinely? How could I impress them? How can you impress your kids? You must have been asking yourself that.

It takes a lot. I'm not sure. I don't know, actually. It really does take a lot. But that's all right. And the family, no, the family have been so proud. And honestly, the messages I've had, Dominic, I couldn't believe it. I've had messages from obviously Jack, Els and me and the girls and Linda.

We always talk. But Sharon, Tony, James and Eve. You know, all the family. I bet Tony was pleased. You got to chat to him. Thrill. I mean, maybe you could have a little chat for him about that when he's on. Yeah, I might do.

Okay. But it's got to be balanced. It has got to be balanced. It's nice to have a nice balanced podcast. It certainly is a shit. And in all seriousness, I do think that it was really, that was what was very good about that. That was quite a genuinely, like it sounded like both of you were very on topic. Yes.

and I have to say you know and I mean do mean it sincerely I think the way that Mr Burnham kind of conducted himself

was very good that was a little dig a little dig about how he tried to do something before he was in the business he was but he did do that but there was a little bit like

well you know there was a couple of bit but to be fair yeah but it was on top of Because the thing it really winds me up, listening to your, when I used to listen to your favourite radio station, is you get a politician on and they just use it as a platform. I don't keep saying that, because I'd like to do Magic Christmas. That's a different radio station.

I know. But we shouldn't say it's my favourite. It should be my favourite of Magic Christmas. Sorry, I see what you're saying. Yes. When you're listening to your second favourite radio station, LBC, I do feel that quite often you'll hear an interview. Oh, I know, and it's all bashing. And they just used it as an excuse.

But I have to say, clearly he does know. He does, of course he knows what he's talking about, but he's had a very sad experience of his dad. And, and, you know, he's,

he's really real. He's obviously a human being. He came across that way. But also, likewise, I think the way you did it, the way you conducted yourself, was,

A, it was very neutral, I think, which is a good thing. And I think that you didn't, it didn't come across as it, it was some sort of, I don't know.

You were, you were doing it sincerely as well. You're not doing it for some sort of means to kind of gain traction. Well, I'm not at all. And it is a subject, you know, well. And I was at work today telling people about it. They've now seen the clips. Yes, yeah. And, yeah, they were saying themselves that, you know,

the way that you just know what you're talking about. As per the documentary, obviously that's real. obviously you now is real. It's really good. Well, it's something I'm passionate about, isn't it? And long may it continue, if I can keep within this sort of care sector field and make any difference at all, make anybody heard, anyone seen. I'm going to continue to do it because I love it.

And what are the chances of you doing anything more documentary-wise? Have you thought about that? Yeah, we have. No, no, no. It's all sort of talks and speaking about things, but no one's got any money in telly, have they, at the moment. No. So hopefully.

We might have to get the dust off the old camcorder in the loft. We could do it on the road. We could whack it on YouTube. It's true. Just do ourselves. It's the way forward, I think, these days. A lot of people are doing it, aren't they? You wouldn't pay me, though, would you?

No. That's the problem. No, all out of love. Yeah. It all sort of comes back in the end, doesn't it? It's all sort of ours. Yeah. Yeah. Possibly.

Right, well, there we go. I think we should finish here. I feel like we should have now a glass of, of champagne to celebrate that. That would have been nice. Never mind. That would be really nice. Well, congratulations.

Thank you. Hopefully that's the first of many exciting guests, slightly different guests on the podcast. Not to say that the standard line-up always be there. Everyone loves the standard line-up, so that will never ever go, I promise. No, I know. But at the same time, I think you should be very proud of yourself. Thank you.

Because something you created that you do everything for, and it's all part of you, that is genuinely attracted Downing streets say the Prime Minister wants to come on it just think about that that's unbelievable Yeah it is yeah

It is and I'm very very proud of you Thank you Thank you