Life with Nat - EP8: Kids vs Phones

Episode Date: May 15, 2024

Nat chats to friends, her daughters and lovely lady Daisy from @smartphonefreechildhood as she mulls over one of the biggest subjects a lot of us face. Kids and mobile phones. Please subscribe, follow, and leave a review. xxx You can find us in all places here; https://podfollow.com/lifewithnat/view INSTA: @natcass1 A 'Keep It Light Media' Production Sales, advertising, and general enquiries: [e-mail] SHOW INFO: Life with Nat - it’s me! Natalie Cassidy and I’ll be chatting away to family, friends and most importantly YOU. I want to pick people's brains on the subjects that I care about- whether that’s where all the odd socks go, weight and food or kids on phones. Each week I will be letting you into my life as i chat about my week, share my thoughts on the mundane happenings as well as the serious. I have grown up in the public eye and have never changed because of it. Life with Nat is the podcast for proper people. Come join the community. ♥️ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sick of dreaming smaller? Sick of high fees eating away at your investments but just don't have the time to invest on your own? Just because you don't have time to manage your investments doesn't mean you should pay high fees for someone to do it for you. With Questrade's managed portfolios, you'll get an investment portfolio made and managed for you. Invest for a fraction of the cost and become wealthier with QuestWealth Portfolios. Get yours. Questrade. Hello, lovely people. How are you? I hope you're having a great, great week. All still exciting, my end. Everything's going so well. I'm so grateful and overwhelmed at the support and the different people listening. I've got so many fantastic messages saying that you're absolutely loving the pod. And the favorite bit for me is the podcast virgins who have never

listened and are starting off with my pod and loving it. So thank you so, so much. It's absolutely amazing. I'm blown away by it all. So this week's ep is about something close to my heart really, and that is mobile phones, how we use them, how kids use them, mostly about the children really. I'm chatting to a couple of friends of mine about kids and teens on their phones. I'm also talking to Daisy from Smartphone Free Childhood, which is the Instagram page. And I just, it looks amazing. It's a grassroots parents movement for a smartphone free childhood. And I thought it would be really interesting to have a chat with her and she was really interesting. So I hope you enjoy that too. It's a bit of a chop together, lots of different people having a chat, but I hope you enjoy it

because it's such a massive subject. I didn't really know where to start and I don't think this will be the end of the phone chat. Do you know what I mean? I think, you know, this is just the beginning for me talking about phones. So please remember once you've listened to this app, drop me a voice note or a text on 07788 20 1919. That's my business WhatsApp number. That is the number where I can read your messages and we are a part of a community together. Life with Nat number 07788 20 1919. And let me know your thoughts and what you think. And then I can play them. And if I get an overwhelming amount, I'll do another rep on phones and teams and what have you. So, yeah, here we go.

Right, so I'm here with, I'd say, a new friend, Charlotte. Charlotte, we met how long ago? Two years? Was it on the school run? It was on the school run, yeah. Oh. Yeah. Our daughters are really good friends at school. Yeah, the big one.

So how many years ago was that? When did she start? A couple of years ago, isn't it? Yeah. She only started in year seven. Two years? Yeah, two, two and a half years ago. We just clicked though, didn't we?

Yeah. Because you're mad like me. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. Perfectly normal. And Kelly's here as well, which is Charlotte's friend. We've met a couple of times on some drunken evenings oh yeah i wasn't that well i was making the espresso martinis that night

yeah they were good that was the night oh my god that was the night i fell asleep yes yes it was study yes you were chatting to mark yeah i spoke to mark and then you came back round again so i was like doing shifts with you and mark and before i know it's 5 a.m and and they're like oh yeah i think we'll get a cab home now and i'm like yeah yeah probably a good idea i ended up keeping in the spare room but you got up and then carried on again yeah i think mark was asleep at one point. You were trying to dig him out and he was like, there's no waking him up.

And then he got up. He got up and was back on the expressway. I don't know where you went at one point. I was in the kitchen. I was in the kitchen being a maid. Being the cocktail bitch. That's the cocktail bitch you were. I was.

Oh, no, but that was good. That was nearly a year ago. It was a year ago. We haven't done a night like that since, have we? No, we've got to do one. Life's just mad though, isn't it? Too much going on. That's what I said to you about Friday.

Friday, you've invited me over. I was like, it'll be lovely. I can't wait to see you. I'd invited my nephew, Dom, over with his family for dinner. And I've got a wedding. Yeah. All on the same night. Triple booked myself.

Let's get them all in. So I wanted to invite you over. I was in the car and on the same night. Triple booked myself. Let's get them all in. So I wanted to invite you over. I was in the car and on the radio, there was a stat that came up that nearly made me crash the car, that 25% of five to seven-year-olds in the UK, not only do they own their own mobile phone, but they're on all of the social media networks. Shush.

Really? Yes. Wow, no. Surely that's not even legal, is it? They've got all the apps and... Well, that is the state of today. That's awful. Nancy hasn't got a phone, has she?

God, no. No. But the problem, you know, I say she hasn't, but any opportunity she can, I mean, truthfully, any opportunity she can get hold of mine or her dad's. Yeah. She's gaming, though. Yeah, she she loves is it

mind blocks road what's it called minecraft or roblox okay yeah just made a new game get on the phone yeah so so any opportunity she'll be on it but also everything's on there so obviously we're trying to encourage her to clean her teeth yeah and even there's even the app yeah yeah to make her clean her teeth and put like um an astronaut helmet on her head while she's brushing her teeth you know like in the there's a camera yeah yeah you mean so then she'll disappear with the phone and then suddenly you're thinking she hasn't been washing her teeth for half an hour yeah well that's how they've got you yeah they get you with the tooth yes paste yeah happening that's it yeah but like you say everything's on the phone yeah this especially

now doing this doing the podcast all of that I feel like I'm continuously on my phone and I need to yeah put it put it down I mean it's probably because of excitement at the moment and it's all new and I will have breaks but at the moment I just want to thank people and reply to people but they see me on my phone the kids see me on my phone so much so i do it's really hard to say but this is my work girls of course it's different to lead by example and you can't you can't no that's exactly it because i'm on the phone and sphere then thinks she's okay for her to go on her phone i'm like whoa whoa whoa just so you know i'm working yeah and she'll look at me like well so am i with my friends yeah, so am I, with my friends? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've got a meeting with my friends. So it is, it's really hard. It's very difficult. We're trying to do this whole thing now where at 7 o'clock, I mean, admittedly, we fail quite a lot at it. Yeah, yeah. It's put the phones away. Yeah.

At 7, that's it. Every phone is away and we go and watch the TV. Go and watch another screen lot of screens bigger screen but it is different watching the tv but i'm really bad i watch the tv and i've got my phone in my hand and i'm like yeah i'm watching this and i'm listening to it and like yesterday my son wanted to watch a film with me and i'm like yep yeah i'm on the phone and it's bad and I need to be much more mindful of that yeah yeah yeah how's your son on the phone how old's your son my son is 16 yeah and when he was very young um I didn't let him have a phone but then he started walking home from school on his own yeah and I didn't buy him a smartphone I was like you can have a Nokia

and he was like I'm not showing any of my friends it's awful it's a brick I don't care it's for texting when you're home or calling me if you need me yeah for an emergency so he was like the uncoolest child in school I didn't care that's that's the point of the phone then when he had to go to senior school I had to get my smartphone and I'm quite strict with the phone I've got to say I I'm bad at this. I'd probably go through his phone. There's nothing wrong with that. I was thinking, it's my phone, my bills, my rules. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Until actually quite recently, he said, Mum, can you stop going through my Snapchat messages? And I'm like, you're 16. It's probably time for that change to stop snooping now. Yeah, yeah. He's now 35 I was just about to say 10 years time 26 she's stalking the phone I'm still paying that bill

it's fine but I think you need to keep an eye on it yeah I mean you read all these awful stories don't you and the stress around it and it's the school friends and the pressure and everybody knowing the embarrassment the shame it's awful but you know with eliza i do she knows that i hate her having snapchat i hate it in fact it's a conversation in this podcast the whole thing with

all those apps as well like i think it's snapchat but they can you can have like your location live yeah you see i quite like that because then I can see if he's at home. I can see where I'm like. Yeah, but can't you just track it, track him instead of having it. Yeah, because you've got the live 360 app that I use. There is, but there's a problem with that at the moment. I can't get it to work. But the Snapchat is, I can see if he's live on his phone.

So 10 o'clock phones are off and I can look on my phone. He's on his phone and i'm like taking his phone out of his room but but then but then that's public for everybody isn't it um i think you can make just for your contacts close friends and things like that there is this is the problem it's so bloody complicated as well complete minefield and i'm not a technical person i'm trying to be and having a go but but I'm really not overly technical. I wanted to start a movement where everybody bought their children a Nokia. Yeah. That is it.

And every parent agrees and shakes hands on it. I feel I'm leading the way in that. Yeah. Yeah, you have. You're like well ahead of your time. What a great idea. And then it becomes cool. Yeah.

You know, like cassette tapes. Yeah. It's like retro. We should go back. Retro, vintage. So all the phone is, is for texting and phoning. You know, like cassette tapes. Yes, it's like retro. We should go back. Retro, vintage. So all the phone is is for texting and phoning. And snake the game, obviously.

On Tetris. But you just think, I remember the days when I was 16 and I'd go meet my boyfriend. I remember being at Euston Station. I mean, I should have got the sign then. But, you know, when he was like two hours late, you just have to wait. Bless you. You just have to sit there and wait.

Because you can't, there's no phones. How long did you actually wait? Forever. Yeah, that didn't last very long. But anyway. Sorry, did he actually turn up? I need to know. Yeah, no, he did turn up. Did he turn up after two hours?

Yeah. Oh, wow. I would not have waited two hours. I was really, well, the thing is, I was travelling in from Milton Keynes, so I'd got the train in, so I didn't know London. So you just, I was sitting there waiting. Two hours late. That is so rude.

I know. It's so rude. I know. It's so rude. I know. You know what I'm like with late nights. I heard you don't like late nights. He was stuck behind a tractor.

That's not acceptable. Yeah, I know. But that's... Anyway, so my point was, you couldn't really do anything about it. Either you waited or I just got on the train home. Or you'd go and find a pay phone and go and ring his mum and say, have you seen him?

And she would say, no. Not you again. Leave him alone. Stop calling the house. I've had this message you'll listen from Zoe that says,

hello, I'm a mum to a 13 year old girl and a 12 year old boy. My 13 year old is always asking for TikTok. We tell her no as in the past another child has taken my daughter's photo and made an account from it and there is no way of getting the account taken down i'm so sorry zoe you need to speak to the mother

of said child i don't know who it is she doesn't know who she doesn't know who it is she's got absolutely no idea see what i mean i'm speechless'm speechless. This is just awful. And this is, and, and, and the thing is, is she can't get it taken down. It's outrageous. I know. Yeah.

It's just the problem is, the problem with social media is that it's like you're going down a rabbit hole. I mean, how many times have you woken up, reached for your phone and automatically gone onto Instagram, for example, and then suddenly before you know it, an hour's passed.

Oh yeah. But I think also with being so busy at work, like this year you've had such a busy, with Yard Art, you've had such a busy time, haven't you? It's been crazy. Getting all your stuff together. You've done the, what was it? The home, what's it called? The Ideal Home Show.

And then, you know, we're now doing Grand Designs, but only from the back of Dragon's Den, which has been mental. But then this goes back to all social media again because you know because I have to be I do my own Insta page because I don't think

anybody can do it as well as me because you're a control freak I'm a control freak and also because I know my business inside out

no one is as passionate about your own business as you are and also it's a creative view and you're a creative person and Instagram is so creative

it's pictures it's art yeah yeah absolutely but also a creative person and Instagram is so creative. It's pictures, it's art. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But also, what I mean, I suppose, is, you know, we've spoken in the last few weeks and you've been really stressed where you feel guilty as you're not being a mum. Yes. You're not doing the mum thing, but, you know,

your business is going well. It's like me. This is going brilliantly well, but there's a part of me like, oh, am I spending enough time with the kids? But you can't do everything. But, you know, chop it all up and think, actually, give yourself a break. And we're doing it for the children. Exactly.

I'm kind of like to think that when we're doing it to make our children proud of us as being strong women in business. Yeah, you've got to show them the way. Yeah, you want to show them a good example. Yeah, you don't want to wake up in 10 years' time and go, I missed that. I missed that hockey match. I missed that footy match. I missed. You don't. So it that. I miss that hockey match. I miss that footy match. I miss, you don't. So it is trying to find that real balance.

And I don't, I'm still yet to find it. No, me too. Yeah, me neither. Let me see if I've got any voice notes. I love these. This is Maz. Hi, Maz. And also Maz has got the most amazing dog who plays the piano.

It's the funniest video. She sent me a video. It's the funniest thing I'll show you after. we go oh my god kids and phones the bane of my life i'm a mom of three one's 27 one's 22 and one is 10 so i've all had phones at the same age we've made it fair they had them at 10 um but they never have a contract or anything that can only use it when it's on wi-fi very good we'll monitor them i just did not have the issues that i'm having with my 10 year old then that i didn't have those issues with the older two no matter how much you try and shield them from tiktok and instagram and snapchat They want it because their friends have got it

and they see it when they're at their friends' houses, which makes it more and more appealing. And it's just so hard. And mate, if you're going through the same thing, hats off to you if you're managing it because it's a daily struggle for me. Because she's got the children that are in their twenties, the difficulty is not just, it's not about having a phone, is it? It is about the world we live in today and the social media. Yeah, and then it's changed. And, you know, the children who are 27, well, not children anymore,

but have grown up, the phones were different back then. I know they were probably still quite modern, but they were still different and not as slick as they are. I mean, they're pretty much an office in a little pocket-sized thing, aren't they? They've got everything you need there. Yeah. I mean, I feel for you, Maz, because I think every parent with a young child has all gone through it.

Absolutely. Any parent is either dreading it coming, you know, if they've got little kids, they're thinking, oh, what's going to happen when they've got the phone? Or if they're in that position, 10 plus really i think everybody is fighting that and it's really heartbreaking because i mean i only have to you only have to drive to school and you know when you're driving past bus stops with children oh yeah they're all just it breaks my heart like that yeah they don't they're not talking to each other they're all looking at their phones i see kids

walking down the pavement on their phones there was was a big campaign, wasn't there, about road accidents? So many road accidents now because of people looking at their phones and AirPods in and what have you. I think it's really important that phones are away and tablets at dinner time as well. Yeah, I can't stand it. I cannot abide that. People go to a restaurant and they've sat there with their earphones

and their iPads with their kids. And I'm like, what's the point of going out for dinner? You're absolutely right. You know, I say no, but I have to be honest. When the kids were really little, if there was a birthday or something with loads of the girls and the mums, and they were say 18 months to two, they'd probably do some colouring and do a little bit of time. But for selfish reasons, I would then give them a phone or iPad to watch a show because they were that age. So I have done that in the past, but that's because I want to stay at the restaurant longer.

Yeah. But once they understood and wanted to talk and could do more colouring, more games, I've always got a bag of stuff. We play Hangman on napkins. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Noughts and Crosses. Boxes. I like boxes.

Oh, I love a box. Do you remember that? Yes. You put your initial in. No, the dots. You do all the dots. So when you get a box, You put your initial in No the dots You do all the dots So when you get a box You put your initial in

I never Yeah you can make boxes And then Charlotte you haven't lived There's another voice though Hey hun It's Danielle from London Oh where to start

With kids and phones I've got a 12 year old boy And an 8 year old girl Or should I say They both think They're 16 already Of course And I didn't let my son the 12 year

old have a phone until he was at secondary school despite all the peer pressure for him to get a phone from his friends that were crazy enough to have them when they were younger the only reason I let him have a phone was for the safety of going to and from school so it's a constant shouting at him send your location are you okay are you at school but now i'm having to learn all of the teenage abbreviations and googling to see if i can understand what his responses to me are so i do message him how was your day are you okay i either get yes okay fine or i get abbreviations that I have no idea what they mean and I have to Google. Anyway, such a big topic.

I could talk to you all day about teenagers, well, kids and their phones. Have a great day. Looking forward to your next podcast. Thanks, hon. Thanks, Danielle. Yeah. I mean, the abbreviations are hilarious. It drives me out the wall.

It drives me out the wall. Google them. I didn't even, I didn't even know what the thank you so much was. No. T-Y-S-M. I was like, what does that mean? Well, do you remember LOL's changed?

It used to be lots of love. Well, I still cast it as that. LOL's is lots of love. Laugh at, laugh at, laugh at. Laugh at, laugh at, laugh at. I mean, God, that's so archaic though. LOL is just such an old one. My son texts me K. That really winds me up. As in, okay, what, you couldn so archaic though. Lola's got such an old one. My son texts me K.

That really winds me up. As in, okay, what, you couldn't be bothered to put the O in front of the K? Yeah. It drives me insane. K. I find that Eliza's quite good on the phone and she'll text me. But for emotions, to have a laugh with her, we send each other GIFs. Yeah, I like that.

Loads of GIFs. I like a GIF. Yeah, I like a GIF. They're fun loads of gifts i like a gift yeah i like a gift i'm fun i don't like it when sophia sends me a text message doesn't put a kiss on the bottom of it they're rude if she replies yes i go get off that phone so i know she's on the phone but literally you walk into her bedroom and she'll throw it under the duvet yeah my son does mark went in the other day and she it was like a shot putter she just threw the whole he was like what the hell are you doing wow

wasn't on the phone so I said to Charlotte what I do is I go up to the phone and I just press it and say oh it's burning it's absolutely burning

isn't that funny that you've not been on it because it's so hot you could fry an egg on it Eliza so you've obviously been on it for an hour well I do that and you're like

that Dave Muston thing was stupid. Oh, well, thank you so much, ladies. Oh, thank you for having us. Can we come back? Yeah, of course. When there's another subject that pops up in the future,

well, come and have a cup of tea and we'll have a nag. Let's just carry on doing the best we can, really. I think we're the same as everybody. You know, it's a struggle, but we've just got to do the best we can with the phones.

So thank you so much. Thank you. Stop sitting on your Aeroplan points and get big savings so you can be somewhere you actually want to be, like on a beach. Right now, you can save up to 25% in Aeroplan points when you book a trip to one of 180 plus Air Canada destinations worldwide. So stop sitting on your next trip and start saving on one. Don't miss out. Your chance to save in points ends February 23rd. Book at aircanada.com. Conditions

apply. Hello, Joni. Hello. How are you? Good, thank you yeah yeah oh the big one's coming in now to aggravate oh it's my special list can i read it no so should i introduce you yeah so so who have we got on the pod who is on mic number two i am joanie elizabeth cassidy humphriesries. My dad calls me J-Dog and Monkey, and everyone calls me Joan.

That's me. Now we're moving on to number three. Wait, am I mic number three? Yeah. Who's on mic number three? Who's on mic number three? Let me have a guess. Is it you?

It's me. Chimpy. Chimpy. My grumpy teenager. Oh, thanks. No, you're a good girl. This is what I get. You're a good girl.

I am Natalie's eldest daughter, Eliza. Stink. Joanie and our nanny Laura Call me Stink And my dad calls me Chimpy Why do you call her Stink? It's her nickname on BBC iPlayer Is it because she farts a lot? Yeah

Oh thanks, thanks guys You're touching me No I don't, you fart more than me Now the reason I wanted to Talk to you both You said you weren't going to talk. No, I need to talk a little bit. Okay.

So I need to say that when I was driving the other day, I heard on the radio that 25% of children in this country, right, 25% of children age 5 to 7. What? 5 to 7. So you're 7, aren't you? I'm cool. Yep, 7 age, good age.

Good to be me. So ages 5 to 7, 25% of children have their own mobile phone. Talk a bit more into that. Yeah, I will in a minute minute you're not producing the podcast what do you think about a quarter of the children in schools having their own mobile at five age five to seven well five i can't even hear about it. Seven. I know a lot of people, you know. Do you think it's a good thing to have a phone?

No. But I think it's nice when you go on your mum's phone when you're a bit bored and you want to play a bit of games in the car. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, we do that sometimes, don't we? I love playing the donut game. But do you think that children should be on TikTok and Snapchat at your age, Joni? No. Why? Because when you're on a phone, on TikTok and Snapchat,

people can talk to you who you don't know. They could be tricking you. Yeah, that's right. Like people, actually really, really strangers, and then you say stuff to them and tell them all your secrets, but then something really big wrong happens. Yeah, that's a really, really good girl. Who did that, from me or at school?

From myself. Fair dose. And she hears everyone else talk about it. Yeah, we talk about it a lot. What do you think, Eliza, about kids being five to seven having a mobile? I think it's mad. You have it now. Yeah, but I'm 13, nearly 14, Joni. Big difference. If I had it my way, you still wouldn't have a phone yes I know but I feel like I was at the point where I wasn't going to go anymore without a phone I think you held off extremely well to be honest I wish I'd held out a little bit longer yeah I bet you did no I do I would like I would like to you have been the beginning of year eight. Seriously?

Yeah. There's loads of people. Do you know there's loads of people who don't allow their kids to have phones? I know. Just to say, I think maybe having an Alexa in your room's okay. Yeah, Alexa's quite different because I got my Alexa when I was about ten. And mummy's getting me one for my birthday. I might get you one. Oh yeah.

And maybe some headphones as well. But that's different because with the Alexa, I can set it all up and it's for you to set an alarm and play some music. And then send announcements to mummy when she's in the kitchen. Oh, okay. You're on Snapchat. Mm-hmm.

And you've downloaded TikTok loads of times secretly, and I've told you to get rid of it. You're not on it now, are you? Don't tell Eliza this, but she is a kind of Snapchat fave. What do you mean? What, that I'm on Snapchat? No, you don't get it. I would rather you not be on Snapchat still, though.

I know you would. I'd prefer you to be on WhatsApp. But you do know that WhatsApp is now turning into Snapchat, don't you? It is actually. So on WhatsApp... Shush. What do you know? On WhatsApp, there's now a thing called the WhatsApp status, which is like a story. There's now things called channels.

You can follow people. Yeah, it's mad, isn't it? There's now a thing where you can take a picture, press the the one in the corner and it makes you only see a photo once it is exactly the same but it's just a different app right honestly i will show you but you just don't like snapchat because i get notifications because of the streaks i don't care about the streaks it's just but i've got only got streaks with people who I message every day like my close friends maybe it's because I just don't know the app very well that I get nervous about it if you got it you would think nothing of it because people who don't know you can't message you because they have this thing and it's called quick ad well they have to search your name up

and if I popped up on some old man's quick ad he'd have to add me and I'd have to accept before he was able to make any contact with me and find anything out right so it's not possible for anyone to get in contact with me that I don't know because I've never ever added anyone that I don't know so fair fair do I just feel like if I look at your phone because obviously I check your phone whenever I want to yeah but when I go on to it I feel like I can't even really check much that's my problem yeah you can maybe you can show me how to check it all through well I've got group chat with my friends yeah and all messages stay there so you can just go through that whenever you want I'm just messages with people are there for 24 hours so if you were to look at my phone tonight every message from this morning this afternoon and

yesterday morning yes all of that would still be there they don't delete for 24 hours so if you were to check my phone every night everything would still be there it's no different to whatsapp well we can have more of a bit of an adult conversation about this maybe without Joanie in the room. But Jo, what else you got to say about mobiles? Well, first of all... Because I'm on my phone a lot, aren't I?

Mummy's on her phone a lot. Yeah, but that's because of work. I'm on my phone a lot, which makes me feel guilty sometimes if you're at home and I'm always on my phone, but I am doing work. Like this morning.

Yeah, but we've said to you that... Because the other night I was sat eating my dinner yeah sorry eating my dinner yes

and you were stood next to me on your phone and I was asking you questions and you just completely ignored me because I'm really sorry

because I'm working and you were like I should be in the office upstairs but I think you do need to start doing that because I know you wanted to see us

I do I see what you're saying yeah I just need to start doing that because I know you want to see us I do I see what you're saying yeah I just need to come up and do my work no basically you just get away from us for a bit and actually get your work done because the quick you'll be able to do it quicker if you're not sat in the kitchen with you yeah yeah it's true sorry I really rambled then didn't it's all right I don't know why you apologize we justles mean? It means when you talk on and on and on You probably repeat yourself a lot Who does, who else talks a lot? Joni Actually my name's J-Dog

J-Dog, you talk a lot don't you? Yeah A lot I don't know what you're talking about. You don't stop talking, Eliza. You talk about Joni, you do not stop talking. Okay, well, maybe it's a good thing we talk when we're sat down. I think that is to do with not having tablets, YouTube.

Well, yeah, obviously. Because we're not sat in our rooms all day on the phone or something. And we actually know how to socialise with people. I do sit in my room and do my sketching, you know. Yeah, but that's different because you're not sat on an iPad. No, I think it's your... No, it's just how you've brought us up. Why I think it's bad to be on TikTok or social media

where you're scrolling through and there's lots of different things, very quick things like YouTube and stuff, is your brain power and what you can hold in your head, Joni. Yeah, your capacity to concentrate. What does that mean? So how long you can concentrate on one thing for goes away. Times table. But it goes away.

Yeah. Because all you want to do is watch things for a very short period of time Or do things for a very short period of time And your brain gets conditioned to do that So your brain learns That that's what it likes to do So I think it's becoming very hard For children of your age

To be able to sit down And have a conversation and a chat Or to read a book with mummy Like we do Or do our sudokus or whatever i need to tell you i've got a new book today oh did you yeah what one it's a um it's a poem book but there's loads of different poems of all animals oh that'll be really lovely we'll have a look in in bed when we go to bed? The last sum up then to do with the phones, please. Okay.

So I'm going to do a list of ticks and a list of wrongs. Okay. Games, fine. Funny faces, we haven't talked about that. That's fine, a bit of enjoyment. Yeah. Fine. Photos, when you're having a laugh and you're out And you're out for a day Maybe in London

Making memories Yeah making memories as well Yeah Fine Wrongs Snapchat Always on the phone TikTok

Apps cannot always That's fine Play this whole recording back to her When she's 13 I can't wait until I play it back to you When you're 23 What's the difference? Can't wait Yeah but she's saying She I can't wait until I play it back to you when you're 23. What's the difference?

Can't wait. Yeah, but she's saying she doesn't want a phone and Snapchat and TikTok when she's my age. No, she won't. Maybe she doesn't. Okay, well. I just want games. I think, be honest, darling, by the time you're 13,

it's a possibility we've got five years that phones may be banned until the age of 16 anyway. Yeah, to be fair. Because of brains. Yeah. Because be fair. Because of brains. Yeah. Because it's frying people's brains, which is why I feel annoyed. Because I'm telling you,

there will be a rule in place one day which has got a serious medical health warning that children should not be on mobile phones, devices. I'm fine with that. Yeah. Scary stuff. Scary stuff, but I've let you have one. And I've done that because you're going to be very left out if I don't.

I understand because there are some people that committed suicide from it. Yes. And really had really bad mental health problems and hurt themselves. And it's so bad. But I feel like some people aren't as aware as I am. So you and Daddy have made me aware since I was about eight or nine, I'd say around Joni's age, and you've always spoken to me about it. And I've always grown up understanding the dangers of it.

It's not like, oh, you've got a phone, these are the dangers of it, be aware. Because I was asking you for a phone for about two and a half years with Snapchat. I only got Snapchat a few months ago ago i think it was after christmas and that can go don't worry about that if you misbehave that will go yes i know well the whole phone goes well yes well i know that however when we took the phone away at easter yeah just for a little reboot and to just chill i said to you it was actually quite nice to have a break from it.

It was just nice to put it away for a week. But I don't think we should see that as a punishment. I think we should do that sometimes.

It's good for our brains. Yeah. Have a little rest. Girls, it's time to go. Can we go like that? But thank you very

very much. Come and press a button. Yay! Bye Joan. Thanks. Right girls, love you. Thank you. Right, right. Come and press the button. Yay. Bye, Jane. Thanks. Right, girls, love you. Thank you.

Bye, bye. I'm saying goodbye to you both. Can you both say thank you? Thank you. Thanks, Mummy. See you later. See you soon. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Hi, my name's Daisy, and I'm the co-founder of smartphone free childhood which is a very very new thing for me i've been a journalist for my whole life but in february me and my friend claire decided to start a whatsapp group for each other because we thought we didn't want to get smartphones for our children and they're eight and nine and we were just feeling really worried about we knew we'd read about the harms that could come um and nine and we were just feeling really worried about we knew we just

read about the harms that could come um with them and we thought okay we want to not do it but it's so hard not to do it because there's so much pressure um as soon as a child in your class gets one it's sort of you know the pester power from the child they really want to be part of it it's really understandable and you don't want them to be left out um but we thought okay well let's try not to and um, Daisy, just cutting in there. So did you say it was eight and nine that they had someone in their class and they were pestering you for a phone at eight? Well, yeah.

I think the latest figures from Ofcom, which were released last week, show that 24% of five- to seven-year-olds in Britain have a smartphone now. That's what's made me do this episode. I was absolutely, I heard that stat, and I just thought this is absolutely ridiculous because I have a seven-year-old and I have a 13-year-old, so two daughters. Joanie's the smallest one.

She'll be eight in August, but the way I have hammered it home regarding the phone, she is absolutely in no way, she knows she will not get a phone until her big sister did which was 12 and even that's really really young but anyway carrying on it's just crazy to hear that you know the pestering begins now that young yeah yeah i guess it's just like kids they want to be the same as everyone else around them don't they and they want to have the same thing so it's understandable yeah um but yeah so we we set up this group and thought it's going to be us basically and anyone else we can rope in

to join and then um i sent a post out about it on instagram and overnight thousands of people joined and the group got full and we so we said okay um start we started another one and that got full and we said okay start one in your region start one for your county and they sprang up all across the country like instantly there was one in every county in britain well so it was wild it was crazy and we've been encouraging people to start them in your school because that's it doesn't really matter if someone in cornwall has one you need solidarity in your school no absolutely of course and also how amazing is it to know because Because I sometimes feel like I'm the only person who moans about the phone. So for you to do that and know that across the UK there are people, absolutely parents, family members, so worried about phones

that they are ready to join a group about being smartphone free. I don't know how I've missed it because I would have jumped on board. You can still join. It's all going well. Yeah, I know. We were truly astonished and flabbergasted at how many people were feeling just the same as us. It just felt like a damn birth. And this is a conversation that all these parents wanted to have.

And, you know, everyone in the groups, I mean, it's ironic. Like suddenly we were on our phones the whole time. wanted to have and um you know everyone in the groups i mean it was it's ironic like suddenly we were on our phones the whole time asking questions and like experiences and everyone saying what do i do what do i do people clearly just felt so lost like the bricks felt like you know they just had no idea how to deal with the situation but it was in everybody's homes and you know your own children it's really like an emotive and like painful topic for people really and it's awkward to discuss with people because everyone's taking a different approach very much so very much so so daisy here's a scenario then your is it daughter or son eight

or nine daughter so how have you explained to her how much firstly how many children in her class do you think have a mobile then I think maybe there's about four okay fine so how have you explained that she isn't going to have one and to make her feel that she's you know okay and she hasn't got to be like the rest don't follow the sheep how have you done that at that age yeah it's um it's a really tricky one because she really wants to be you know part of the gang and um she really cares what everyone thinks and um but i've just explained to her like the reasons why the reasons we know that it's harmful for kids and why i want to protect her from it for as long as i can and what are those main points that you explain to an eight-year-old

because i'd like to know them in a simple eight-year-old's brain you know what do you what for parents listening today what would you say the three main things you could say to your eight-year-old to make them understand that it's bad I guess like one of the ones that really concerns me most of all is kind of the least scary in a way um is that is the opportunity cost you know they're addictive um and we all you know i'm really addicted to my phone and i'm 40 and um uh for a child who's eight and the prefrontal cortex isn't developed it's you know it's impossible to have the strength of will to be like i'm going to put that phone down and i'm going to go and jump on the trampoline um so it's the opportunity cost you know kids are spending six hours a day now on screens like outside of school time um like depending on their age it

goes up and up so it's the opportunity cost of all the things that because you're on your phone you're not doing which are just the normal things for childhood like playing football chatting to your mates um all that all that kind of thing so that's you know one of the major issues for us is what how is changing childhood. Do you think that our lives as working parents, obviously we're all so, so busy. We're not in the 1950s where dad goes to work, mum's at home all day cooking a pie,

and then has loads of time from 4 p.m. onwards to sit and chat to them and do puzzles. No, genuinely. So I, you know, my working day, I can, I have my childcare and what have you. I get in at eight o'clock. I'm desperate to see Joanie before she goes to bed. We'll read a book and what have you. Get her to bed.

Then I think, right, I've got an hour with a big one. We watch something on the telly. Everything is rushed and I think the the screen sometimes is used if you like as a home help for parents because they've got a lot to do at home yeah absolutely and you know I do the same my kids watch a heck of a lot of tv because um I'm really really busy and all of us are now living in a really atomized way aren't we where we don't have like granny around the corner to help and your aunts and people's there like to just take some pressure off so that's that that less you know that's definitely a big issue for all parents um but i mean i think that um firstly like there's

difference between having a phone in your pocket 24 7 access to like the whole internet um and watching tv you know watching like stories on tv so it's i think it's less harmful completely completely the same as you i don't know if i'm sure you will agree with me but i do you know my kids watch a lot of television but for me if they're watching a half an hour drama on cbbc they are concentrating on the same thing for half an hour they are not on youtube watching something for 15 seconds and then scanning where your brain you haven't got the capacity anymore to hold information or be interested in the same subject and i can see that in kids i can see it in front of me

i think it's much more harmful to have that that constant scrolling and short stories and you know at least on spy player you know that an editor has thought okay this is something that's useful for kids and it's a story kids have like listened to stories from millennia and it's like you know it's holding your attention span yeah so i agree there's a real difference there but also the other thing is like for example my kids started watching way too much tv so i put some stricter rules in and i said okay we're not going to watch tv after school and we're going to watch it the weekends and at first of course they complained and complained and complained and they started doing stuff once they got used to it like drawing a picture and doing stuff that they once they knew that that was just the rule find something else to do yeah you've got to fill

up the time with something else yeah more to do it's like us so moving on to teenage years, because I am being selfish because it's my podcast, right? Eliza is 13. The story goes like this. When she went to secondary school, I still didn't give her a mobile phone. Although everyone in her primary school class had a phone, I held out. I said, no. She got to secondary school. I did two terms without her having one. And then I noticed a real shift in her mood. She was really, really down. She didn't really want to talk to me. She said, mommy, I'm so different to everybody else. You know, it was really, really difficult. So I did give her, you know, the mobile. So where we stand at the moment is she had the mobile, she had WhatsApp and then it was, no one uses WhatsApp. Everyone's, you know, laughing at me.

I need Snapchat. I have to have Snapchat because that's how everyone messages mummy. You can't give somebody your number. You have to give them your Snap. So then we fought over that and it went on back and forward for a bit for a bit. And then again, I gave in because I had this unhappy child who felt really left out and I think was probably not getting bullied, but being spoken about and laughed at at school. And now she has Snapchat. She hasn't got TikTok. She hasn't got Instagram. She's downloaded TikTok about three times without me knowing. And then I found out and I've got to delete it. And I say, why do you want that? Now,

you know, with all due respect, I'm on TikTok. I'm on Instagram. Instagram is a massive part of my business and my world, but I know how to use it. I'm 40 years old. I don't sit scrolling. I don't, I'm not jealous of people's bodies. I don't care where people are on holiday. So I feel like I use mine for work in a really healthy way. And she gets that, I think. She doesn't say, well, you've got it. Why can't I have it? She does get it. But I'm just thinking, how long is it going to be until those conversations happen with the social media, with the Instagram, the TikTok. I think she knows how strongly I feel. And I think she'll just give up with it. But I am frightened about it. And I just wondered if you've got any stories for me regarding 13,

14, 15 year olds without phones, because that blows my mind. Yeah, well, it's so hard. I agree with you that that is the whole reason that we set up our smartphone free childhood communities because there's just so much pressure for parents it's really really hard to make your child the only one not do it so what we're trying to do is like you know what i think 75 000 people have joined on our whatsapp groups and instagram and all these different channels we've got um and they're supporting each other to hold off and solidarity and doing that and if you can you've got a parent pack, so parents can get together with their class and we try and, you know,

if you get 25% of the class you want, then your child's instantly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we really talk about the alternatives as well, because I think people think it's either no phone or a smartphone, but actually there are always flip phones and alternatives so they can still message they can still do all these things um without the harms of social media but i agree it's a long road and it's really difficult one to take but we know that for girls particularly age 11 to 13 it's like the key age when social media is so so damaging to their self-esteem

and their internal sociometer that they have about who they are and what's important and values and how themselves that is like key um so i think it's just a case of like you know we've got lots of parents in our group to have held off and their children when they get old at the time they say i hate you like you can't how are you doing yeah yeah yeah and later on they say i'm actually really glad that you did that because I can see what it's done to lots of my friends, the anorexia. Self-harm. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, Eliza's good. She's a good girl. We had a bit of a to-do, something happened. I don't even know if it was when she downloaded TikTok or something without telling me.

And then I just said, well, the trust's gone now. Phone's going. We need to reset. I don't make it a punishment. I'm more like, let's just get rid of the phone for a bit. Your behavior, you're getting a bit ruder. And I believe it is because of the phone. I do. So I took it away for the Easter holiday. She didn't have it for 10 days and she did. She turned around to me and said, oh, I really needed that break. Really enjoyed it. So even that for me is a win that she understands where I'm coming from and yes of course she'll be on her phone a lot and I'll say get off of it but really she's messaging friends she's online shopping if you like looking at lots of clothes um and I don't I think I've

I think she's not gone down the route of the scrolling through harmful things and that's all I can do is just think, well, I think I've done that. Okay. Fingers crossed, you know, please. And I check the phone a lot. The phone's not allowed upstairs in the bedroom after eight o'clock, you know, nine o'clock. Sometimes that slips. I'll have family around. You're having a glass of wine. You go, oh my God, it's 10 o'clock. And that's my fault. It's not her fault. So those things do happen. But you know know it is a really big job you've got to be on top of it you've got to be on top of the technology they're using and you know whether it suits you or not you've you've really got to be on top of it exactly it's

so much effort for parents it's a constant conversation and we feel that it's not fair to put all that pressure on parents lots of parents don't have the time or the tech knowledge to know how to do all those things to put the parental controls in place or you know to get the phone out of the bedroom at night all that's parents really don't know a lot of this stuff and the facts about the data and the science behind what the harms it's causing yeah so we really want to push the focus back onto big tech and government and say um you've got to protect help us protect our children, bring in better regulation to protect our children so that it's not all down to you and me, like exhausted parents,

trying to figure it all out on our own. I don't think there should be any mobile. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's obscene that it's allowed that primary school aged children can go to school in years you know four and five like you're saying three four and five and have a phone and that be deemed acceptable yeah it should be an absolute ban that cannot happen definitely because they've got they've government issued guidance for schools in february but it's not statutory and only 10 percent of people are doing it so they should it's very simple just be illegal done no schools no phones in schools ever for any school it's so easy they could do

that overnight yeah yeah yeah and i'm with you on that and um i just thank you so much for spending some time with me this morning i'm going to tell everybody. So Instagram is smartphonefreechildhood. I will post it up. And if anyone wants to join the movement and just be, you know, there's loads of helpful tips on here. You can just see what people are doing. It's not about you grabbing the phone off of your kid and throwing it in the bin, but if you just want a bit of support with it and to feel like you're not the only one, I just think it's absolutely great what you're doing, Daisy. Thanks for having me. No, thank you so, so much.

Ah, so that was Daisy from a smartphone-free childhood. Well, I've loved this episode. Please let me know what you thought about it. I hope you enjoyed hearing my kids be a little bit silly. And as you can tell, Joni has a very bright future in podcasting, I think. She's always coming up to me now, you know, and going, mummy, mummy, can we just go and do, can we do some podcasting? Can we do an hour? And I'm like, not really, darling. There's not really nothing to talk about at the moment, but I want to go in.

I want to touch the buttons and I want to wear the headphones. So she really enjoyed doing it. And it is lovely to hear their opinions on phones because, you know, they're all a part of our lives and we've just got to learn to live with them and deal with them in what ways we can navigate the technological world, as I like to say. So 07788 20 1919. Let me know what you thought of the app. Let me know all your bits and pieces about phones and your opinions and i'm sure you know in the future i can we can revisit this subject and definitely go over it again because it's a huge huge issue and they're all in our lives i mean i wouldn't be where i am today without mine so i'm not slagging them off but it's good to have a little

rest sometimes take a little break i hope you have a lovely weekend and I'll speak to you very soon. Take care. Bye. Hi, this is Chris McCausland. And this is Diane Boswell. And we've got a new podcast, haven't we, Di? We do. What's it called? Winning.

Isn't. Everything. Every week, me and Diane we're going to be having a little catch up on the back of Strictly aren't we Di

we are I've missed you Chris I've missed you too we're going to talk some nonsense so why not tune in available everywhere

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