Life.Church with Craig Groeschel - Bonus! Pastor Amy Groeschel on Loving People We Disagree With

Episode Date: September 22, 2021

In this bonus episode, you’ll get to hear a conversation with Pastor Amy Groeschel about how we can love people we disagree with, fight for unity, and develop humility. She also shares about the importance of relationships, which is the driving theme of her upcoming Sisters message. This episode is the first of two with Pastor Amy, and the second one will also feature her mentor of 22 years. That episode will be available exclusively on You’ve Heard It Said—Life.Church’s spiritual growth podcast for LifeGroups. Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform and get the Conversation Guides at https://www.life.church/yhis You’ll also want to mark your calendars for the 2021 annual Sisters Event. Find dates and times and learn more about Sisters at https://www.life.church/sisters About You’ve Heard It SaidWant more meaningful conversations? We started this story-driven podcast to help LifeGroups and friends reclaim their time together. Listen before meeting, then use your time to do what matters most—talking about the episode, praying, and making memories together. Join us as we have honest discussions about the things that matter to you, the struggles you’re facing, and the spiritual truths that can guide you to a deeper understanding of who God made you to be.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to a bonus episode of the Life Church podcast. Today, we'll get to hear from Pastor Amy Groschelle about the heart behind her upcoming sister's message. We've been talking all about overlooking offenses in our current series, and this episode will be a continued conversation about how we can fight for unity in our relationships. You can find more episodes like this, including another episode with Pastor Amy on Life Church's Spiritual Growth Podcasts for Life Groups, you've heard it said. Listen to the podcast, then download the conversation guide from the,

the show notes to talk it over with your life group. You can subscribe to the podcast at www.w.w.com.com. Now on to the show. Welcome to the You've Heard It Said Podcast. This is Allie. And this is Jason. And today we have a special guest back on the podcast who I know that you're going to love. But before we dive in, I found this meme the other day. That is so accurate. I have to share it. Wait, what are memes, Allie? Okay. See, you're the one who's always saying that I make fun of your age, but then you say things like that, and it just speaks for itself, okay? I know what they are. I figured, I figured.

But I found this meme, and it says, the way social media works. Me, I prefer mangoes to oranges, random person. So basically what you're saying is that you hate oranges. You also failed to mention pineapples, bananas, and grape roots. Educate yourself. I'm literally shaking. That really helped me jog my memeory. I can remember what they are.

Stop. But I don't like, my social media is not that way. Do you have social media? Allie. Okay, so I guess the past couple years, it does feel kind of like I have to filter what I post and think about. Is this going to start some kind of online debate that never ends and nobody ever really wins? Right. I get it.

Yeah. And not just in social media. Like, even in everyday conversation, these things happen, we share an opinion and then it sparks this argument and then our relationship is threatened. But it doesn't have to be this way. In fact, that's why we did a whole episode a while back called How to Love People We Disagree With. That is one of my favorite episodes. I hope people will listen to it. And you're totally right.

I think sometimes then, like the next thing we feel like is, okay, I just need to avoid that person. I actually had this happen to me where I was like, maybe I just won't talk to this person anymore. But in reality, we need people, we need friends who have different opinions in us. Right. And that's why I'm really excited about this episode because I got to sit down with Passover. Amy Groschell, and we talked all about relationships and unity and laying down our opinions for the benefit of our relationships. And if you really like this conversation, you're going to enjoy the sister's message that she's prepared for this year, too. Well, Pastor Amy, welcome back to the

You've heard it said podcast. We are so excited to have you. Hi, Allie. Man, it's an honor. I'm thankful to be back. And this is legit, one of the best podcasts. So it's an honor. Oh, that's very kind of you. Thank you. And I'm also really excited because our sister's events are coming up at campuses and at church online. And so we'll link to where everybody can find their dates and their times that there's locations. But I know that you have a really great message prepared for us about the importance of relationships and unity and all of those things are so needed right now. And so I'm curious, what inspired you to write this year's message and then how has God been working in you as you've been working on it?

The inspiration of the Holy Spirit, really, as a believer, I have just learned over the years that we truly do have the mind of Christ in. So as I'm seeking, you know, Lord, what's next? I don't have a clue on what to do for this coming year's sister's event. If my heart and my mind go in a direction that I can't shake, which is the case for this, of, you know, relationships. and certainly with the Holy Spirit working and teaching me and my own personal life in this area, it gives me confidence as I go into these messages that if it's something I can't shake,

I feel like, well, that he's turned my mind and my heart there, and that's how he works. And, you know, Allie, specifically, relationships were something that God was also bringing me to in my own walk as I spent time in His Word and praying, my awareness was heightened. Just the need of connection, I think it probably was for a lot of us, and also in the area of humility. Because we've come to a place in these past 18 months where there's opposing viewpoints. And there's been a lot of division in families and in the church and in friendships.

It's been a challenge. But I wanted to, instead of trying to just form an opinion and start judging anybody else for their different view, I wanted to see, you know, what was going on in my heart. And I think God wanted me to see that as well. I love that. I think that's really smart for all of us to think about. And I think, you're right, so many of us realized relationships are so important. And so can you tell me about some of the pivotal relationships that you've had and then how they've impacted you? Yes.

Oh, I love this question. man, a lot of these relationships I'll share have been just extremely impactful. The first is my husband. He's the person I spend the most time with in my life. I'm so thankful and definitely has had the biggest impact in my life. We've been married 30 years and trying not to cry. He has been such a source initially of a lot of healing in my life, and that was a big impact of my identity. And then his wisdom has always been a source to me when I am unwise. It seems like the Holy Spirit uses him to bring me back to a place of wisdom and soundness.

And his Christ-likeness, he lives very sacrificial, the side of him, that is a very pastoral shepherding heart. I've seen it and how he loves me and our family and the friendships that he has. And within the church, it's just had a huge impact on my life. His relationship with God and his prayer life impacted my life years ago. It made me pursue and want to have a deeper prayer life.

And then I would say there's two other relationships, and one is my mentor, Cheryl, we're going to have a podcast together, and she's at the sister's event with me, and we've been in a mentoring friendship for over 22 years, which is crazy. She's just been such a guide in my life in all areas, my relationship with God, my role as a wife and as a mom especially. And then I have a prayer partnership that has been going on for about a dozen years, and both of those relationships, I felt led to pray for and felt like God directed me to these gals. But my prayer partner, Sherry, we don't have too much of a formal prayer partnership anymore

like it used to be more formal. But it's just a real sisterhood and a sharpening. It's provided tremendous growth. I love that you have a mentor because we did an episode a little ways ago about the importance of mentorship. So it's really cool to see that you have that in your life. So thanks for modeling that for us. I also know that some people might be listening who feel like maybe they don't have a strong community right now.

Maybe because of the past year or maybe just they've never really had one. And so I'm curious, have there ever been seasons in your life where you felt like you didn't have that community or those relationships weren't there? Definitely. And man, it's a big mistake. And I think that many people just kind of make excuses of why they don't get in community. and you know your excuse, so if you're listening and that's you, you can own that, whatever that excuse is. But really, it's, if you want to be a friend, be a friend. And that means be intentional. And if you need relationships, if you're void of those, then be intentional. When I

have had seasons where I was not in those deepening friendships with girlfriends, then you and those relationships are, you know, you're missing out on so much. And what it did for me is it brought me to some unhealthy thinking, you know, in the isolation of not putting myself out there, not initiating. And even if I had them sometimes, maybe I wouldn't open up and be vulnerable and share a struggle. All of that is really a trap of the enemy because he wants us to be isolated. He wants to keep things in the dark. I find that I confess openly when I'm with girls that I feel safe and close to things I'm struggling with and maybe that I've messed up about and just go through the same types of things. You know you're not alone. It just breaks a lot of lies. And we

psychologically and, you know, emotionally and physically need that. And we've learned that. Studies are revealing it, and especially in this pandemic, right? So when you think about some of those seasons where maybe you didn't have those relationships, what was it for you that kept you from initiating or having them? Yeah. Well, you know, when you're very busy, being a mom, that was me raising and homeschooling with the six kids. So whatever that schedule is for you that you just think you don't have time for, I mean, it's worth it to make, even if it's just getting up an hour earlier. So you get out and have an hour coffee with a friend doing something.

But for me, I think it was just the excuse that I had of lack of time. Yeah, for sure. I think it's really wise, like you said, to think about what is, the excuse that I'm having for not investing in those relationships. Right. And maybe they can multitask, you know, work out with a friend. And that's been a community that I've had for over 20 years. It's just my workout partner.

And that's another relationship that has been a big impact for my life. That's so smart. Yeah. Yeah. So if that's your excuse, just think about what are you already doing that somebody else can come with you. I love that. Serving together, girl, we could go on and on. Yeah, that's so good.

Those are where the relationships are formed. when you do life together, you work together. So add some time, yeah, where you can get to know each other and get deeper. And pour into them, let them pour into you. So I'm so desperate for this for myself and I'm desperate for it for other people. And that's why I think if anything with the sisters event this year, I want them to come. I want God to work in their heart through those events. But I'm most eager for connection to happen with God and with one of them.

another just to build those relationships so strong. It is the most important thing, you know, there isn't anything else. For anybody who is in that spot right now where they don't have those relationships, I think you've already shared so many great things that they can do, like praying for those people and finding places in your life where you can add people to what you're already doing. What is maybe their first step of if I don't have relationships, what can I do? Start to pray. legit. It's not a cliche. Like, expect that when you pray, start looking around, start listening, lean in. Don't consider that text as a coincidence or that call or that interaction.

Expect that God is going to hear, get specific with that prayer because I think God's working in that. So lean into that. I just encouraged one of my kids that needed to get in a life group, a small group. I said, come on, you know, now's the time. I know you've got a busy week, but I see Tuesday is Tuesday's looking good to me, you know. So sometimes it's just that one next thing

that we have been neglecting to do. And you just need to get going on it. It's so important, Allie. I could do some laps around and start yelling and doing cheers just to tell people. My passion is just off the charts for this, for people, for community,

for connection, for unity. you might consider gathering some people if you're gathering a group that has different viewpoints on all the things COVID-19 and whatever because we need to work through those things towards love and unity and fight for what really matters.

You know, the enemy is trying to attack us and bring us down and create division. And I tell you what, we could, you know, we're sitting across from each other now, and we could be like polar opposites on the viewpoints of the day, and I don't even care, because if there's a legitimate concern, then I will pray for you, you can pray for me, but I don't care. Let's just love each other and major on the essentials, which we can find them in the Bible. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that you bring that up because I think that has been an additional strain on relationships this year. I mean, it's always been around. But I feel like the past season has really amplified. We have different opinions? And so then it puts a strain on our relationship. So have there been relationships you've had with others who have had different opinions than you? And how have you learned to kind of lay those down and fight for the relationship anyway? Yes, yes, yes. You know, and it goes into my whole life. It's not just during the pandemic, which that certainly has brought some things up. That honestly, I've had some real hurtful encounters that didn't get argumentative, but they grieved me, and I kept it inside and prayed about those things,

and God's working. I'm seeing some restoration towards some hurt. I just praise God for that. And, but I tell you, it's interesting because the people that you're closest to, I find that's where you find that you'll discover the disagreement. You know, years ago, my prayer partner and I had different views, theologically, that weren't essentials. They would be what the scripture calls disputable matters.

And so it didn't matter to me, but it seemed to matter. to her that I carry her views or something, you know, because she kept wanting to bring it up. So we went round and round in conversations, and it kind of wore me out, but I felt like it was worth us coming to a conclusion, and we came to it again and again. And it was always that we would agree to disagree, but we would always end our discussions with the celebration over what we did agree on. and it became such a unifying thing, the thing that could have divided us

and split our friendship apart because we weren't seen eye to eye, well, clearly, you know, you're wrong and clearly you're wrong, so we, you know, let's not talk anymore. Like, that's ridiculous. That's what the enemy wants. It was always, you know, Jesus is Lord

and he saves us. So it was a disputable matter of Christianity. Theologians have different views on. I point that out just to say, like, It was very important to her and to me, it took both of us, that we come to unity. And now, you know, the bond that we have is so strong. We realize, like, the rest of the church, the church, capital C, should fight in the same way to understand that we can love each other well and have super strong relational community, even though we can see things from a different perspective. and maybe a different interpretation of something.

It strengthened our friendship, but we had to go through kind of a frustrating time. I just encourage people not to be fearful of someone that disagrees with you if it's not something that it doesn't matter in the scheme of eternity. Yeah, that's so good. And I love that you guys worked through that together. So did you have a conversation when that first came up about like, yes, we can talk about this,

but maybe here's some parameters or we're always going to focus on what we're unified on at the end. How did that conversation go? We didn't like announce any parameters. I think it's just that our hearts were pursuing God ultimately over trying to be right, which is important.

I mean, that's why I say it took both of us. I didn't have an agenda to win an argument to be right. As she would communicate her view, I wanted to make sure that she understood that I had, not only did I have a view that was different, but I had very thought out, studied reasons. And so that's the kind of open dialogue that I don't feel like I need to shy away from.

And I think our country needs more of, quite honestly, it's okay to talk about things, you know, and have a different viewpoint and perspective. And, you know, we don't have to think each other as an enemy because of that. And she had reasons for her viewpoints and her perspectives. So, no, there wasn't a parameter. I think that that could be good and that, you know, advisable. But I think it's just that we loved each other first. I think we were both fighting to come to unity. That was our goal. We weren't trying to be so much right. Our eyes began to open to,

we both have faith, we both love the Lord, let's major on the majors. All of that is so wise. And I love how you said that we can have unity, but we can also have these hard conversations. I think sometimes we think about it in terms of like, well, if we have unity, then we can't ever talk about things we disagree. Right. No, that's not true. You just need to talk about it in a loving way. Yeah. That's really helpful. Right. So for anybody who's in that situation right now or maybe somebody that they're friends with or in life group, everybody's posting different things or maybe they've found out that people voted differently or just all of these different things that we can have strong viewpoints on, but we want to protect that relationship. What can we do? We have to humble ourselves. That is the key to all of this. Craig has beautifully coined some statements of God didn't call us to be right. He called us. to love. It's not that he's not calling us to truth, but being right in truth, those can be separate

things. It's like, just allow the Lord to work in people's lives. You can pray for people. You don't have to fix them. You don't have to correct them. Just love them where they're at. I tell you what, Craig and I were walking the other day, and I was just kind of meditating in my mind. He's like, what are you thinking about? I said, I'm thinking about how I'm just wrong all the time. and he started laughing his head off. He's like, what? He's like, no, you're not. That's wrong.

I was like, okay, no, I'm really, I'm just, I think we have to remind ourselves how you can look back at yourself, you know, from five years to years ago and think, man, all the dumb things and how silly and foolish and wrong you can be. And I think that it's not that I think that all my views are wrong or anything like that. I just want to know the word and I want to know Christ. I want my life to be about what he wants it to be. And so anything that gets in the way of that, for me, that I've, I just have gotten so many opinions and I can get really, you know, dogmatic over some opinion.

And it's opinions don't matter unless they're the opinion of God, his mindset, his viewpoint. I want God's perspective. And so through all this last 18 months, I have. have accumulated opinions, and I have learned that the Holy Spirit's just saying, lay all of those things down and, you know, present them before me and get my thoughts on this, my views on this, my heart on this. And it's quite different. And it's better. It's free. The mind of the spirit is life and peace. And so many people haven't had life and peace in their thoughts and in their relationships, and it's because we're listening to all the hoopla more than we're listening to

the voice of the spirit, honestly. And I've been there, and I've done the wrong things and gotten worked up into the wrong things. I'm just throwing them down. They were a hindrance. That is so good. I love everything that you were saying, oh, my goodness. I think even just that idea of, like, sometimes we need to delight in being wrong, because then you can learn, and then you can go to God. Okay. I don't know if I got to the point of delighting. Well, you know. Yes. But you know what? That is. That's Paul saying, I delight in my weaknesses. Well, we have limitations in 1st Corinthians 13 says that we see through a mirror dimly right now. And one day we're going to see face to face. We only know in part. And right now, I feel like

the more I'm hearing and learning, the less I understand and know anything when it's regard to all the things that are happening in our world. So I've just decided, God, you, you're know, you understand. As the body of Christ, we're about the kingdom of God. We have a kingdom culture that's not of this world. We don't have to engage in battle the way with the weapons that the war goes against with the comments and the hate. We have the weapons of the spirit to come against the spiritual forces of darkness that are coming against us to try to divide us, like I said earlier. And so that's the kingdom mindset we're supposed to have, that we would fight for unity, we would fight for truth, not the truth of those.

viewpoints, but the truth of the Word of God, that people need Jesus, that the gospel is what matters, and that the Church of God needs to stand strong as a voice of the gospel, the good news, Jesus saves. I've been rescued, and I think we've been rescued in Christ, and we need to focus on that. I'm getting worked up. I know. I love it. It's so good. Everything you're sharing is so true. So as we think about our relationships, you know, the common denominator in all of them is ourselves. And so what are some things we can develop within ourselves, within our own character, to help us have healthy relationships with other people? Hi, friends, it's Ali, and I'm just interrupting this incredible conversation with Pastor Amy

to remind you about our upcoming sisters' events. But don't just attend the sisters event. Invite all the women you know, bring your friends, and get ready to step out of your comfort zone and find the relationships you long for. You can find details about your locations event at www. and we'll have all the information for our sisters' live church online event too. Now back to Pastor Amy. Again, it goes back to humility, but specifically, humble yourself before God.

I go to God every day and I look to him and he's showing me things to lay down, to lay down that fear, to lay down that insecurity, to lay down the pride of an opinion that I held to, to lay down that I'm upset because I wanted something done my way. which happens a lot over whatever petty thing that's why looking to God is the key to all of this my mind goes to him

my heart goes to him my sighs and my yearnings those you know that internal angst of whatever it is I'm wrestling with I'm submitting that over to him and then he reveals why it's there

and that's just You know, he's my therapist, he's my comforter, my counselor. And I can get that from the community around me, and they do sharpen me in it. But my best community of girlfriends, they're telling them, they always remind me, go to God, go to God, go to God, go to God. Because they have that limit to perspective as well, because only he knows what needs to get rooted out and what we truly need to lay down. The die daily that Paul talks about, those are specific things.

that we need the Holy Spirit to reveal, what we need to lay down, what needs to die, what do we need to put away? And we all have them, you know? I love that you said that we need to look to God because that relationship is ultimately going to influence the way that we have relationships with other people too. And so for you, what does it look like to look to the Father? So I touched on it just there of that constant mindfulness, Mindfulness may not be the word, but my mind, my heart just will go to him like you would run to the phone, to the friend, to the source. He's my source. And so looking to him means like I'll wake up and I'm thinking about my source, my best friend.

That's something that has to be fostered if it's not there just by acknowledging whatever your relationship is not. Like, God, I'm not there. I don't have this. I want this, you know. but I've just learned to get desperate. I've been desperate. Situations have created desperation in me in the past, and I've realized I need to live there even when things are going well,

so I try to put myself in a place of desperation at all times, realizing how needy I am, because that neediness will keep me dependent. It will keep me clinging, it'll keep me relying, it'll keep me hungering and thirsting. And because the Christian life is not meant to be Jesus, saves me and then I figure out how to do it on my own. It's the abiding. It's the connection. And so I know outside of Christ, talk about wrong, outside of him, not only is it not good,

I mean, it's disastrous. And so I don't want to have a day where I'm wandering off from him. The drift can be really strong in the culture that we're in that's becoming more post-Christian. and my heart grieves over that. But we have to feed ourselves with the word instead of so much of what the culture throws. That's going to take us our mind back to him instead of back to confusion and lies and deception and what the enemy is trying to do

when we aren't putting ourselves in the word. And I aren't feeding on that as our source. And he is my source. But I've just learned through what he's shown me, and I talk about the message, to seek. It's a word I focus on. It's my focus word seek. And delight to enjoy that relationship and cling, that desperation. That sums up my relationship of it's always seeking, delighting and clinging.

That's so good. I love that. Seeking, delighting and clinging. Well, Pastor, Amy, this has been so good. And I know that it's just going to make everybody so excited to hear sisters and to continue learning. So is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you want to encourage women with as they get ready to go to sisters or think about their relationship? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, okay.

So a couple things. If you were prompted during this podcast with an idea of something that you need to do, write that down because I don't want you to forget. I have a lot of things that I get prompted to do and I have to write it down. So write it down, take your next step. Please, please, please. Regarding the sisters event, I not only want you to attend or get online or whatever you can do to get involved,

but I want you to spread the word and get other girls to come because, you know, we have that opportunity to influence others and have a ripple effect into their lives for a positive good, positive change. And I believe that God can use everything that happens at this event to bring people

in the healthier direction through all the relational disruption. And so this is your opportunity to advocate for something that would be positive toward healthy relationships and certainly a stronger relationship with God. So be a cheerleader for it and spread the word and bring and invite and attend. And I hope you take on that responsibility as well as be blessed by it. So be looking for the promotions and I cannot wait. And I know you're going to want to get in a community like I am. So yes, yes, yes.

Yay. I love that so much. Thank you again for taking some time to share on the podcast. We always love having you. And just appreciate the way that you pastor us, especially through this season. Thanks, Allie. You're the best. And this is an honor, truly.

Thank you. And every time I hear Pastor Amy talk, it's such a breath of fresh air. And that specific example that she gave of the friend who had a very different view from her, and then they don't get all weird about it. They don't stop talking to each other, but they also don't stop talking about the subject. In fact, they calmly and clearly explain why they believe what they do and stay friends. It sounds really simple, but it's hard right now. And I think that's something that I know that I need more of in my life. I don't want to shy away from the hard conversations with people who I disagree with, but I also don't want to allow what I think is right

to keep me from being loving to others. So good. That part really stuck out to me too. And I really like how the undercurrent to all of that is humility. And so I love how she talked about we have to be willing to recognize that sometimes our opinions aren't right. Or even if they are, maybe that's not the point. I mean that doesn't mean we don't stand firm in like God's truth or things like that. But it does mean that I need to focus a lot more energy on loving others than judging them or convincing them to see things the way that I see them.

And I know, like for me, some of my best friends are people who I don't agree with on everything. In fact, I don't have any best friends who I agree with on everything. We've got a lot of differences, and I think that that's actually what makes them my best friends. I don't want somebody who's going to echo everything I say and just go with me everywhere I go because then I'm not going to grow. I'm not going to change. I'm not going to expand my viewpoints. Right.

I also really like how Amy kind of called us out. and challenged us to identify the excuses we're telling ourselves about why we don't have the relationships we want. And then she gave us really wise advice, too. She talked about how we can pray for the relationships we want. And also, after we pray about them, don't think that that text or seeing somebody is random. Like, that might be an answer to the prayer. And also, you can't just wait for somebody else to initiate either. Like, nobody's probably going to come up and be like, hello, would you like to be my friend? Like, that's just probably not going to happen. So you have to put yourself out there and then watch what can happen when those relationships form. Yes to all of that. And I want to like add emphasis

to paying attention to those moments when someone reaches out. Like that can be God saying, hey, here's a friend. Right. And speaking of relationships, like Amy said, the sisters event might be a really great place for you to start. So you could show up, put yourself out there, join a life group, invite somebody to coffee, all of these things. We just, we need one another. And guys, listen, this applies to you too. You probably don't want to go to the sisters event. Unless you're going to serve, we'd love you to be there to help. But your next step might be joining a life group or getting more intentional with friends that you already have. Look for those people around you that you're regularly around. And everyone listening this week,

we want you to take some time to think about and talk about this question with your friends, your family, and your life groups. What excuse am I holding onto that's preventing me from finding the relationships I want? And how will I take one step to invest in relationships? championships this week. Thank you so much for listening to this bonus you've heard it said episode with Pastor Amy. And remember, our annual sisters events are coming up at all of our Life Church locations and at Life Church online. Make plans to attend and find all the details you need at www.w.com slash sisters. As always, we hope that this conversation won't just be something you listened to, but that it will inspire you to have a conversation with someone you care about.

To help you do that, we have you covered with questions, resources, and more in the conversation guide. Find it in the show notes wherever you're listening, and we hope you have a great week.