Limitless Podcast - We Interviewed The Team Behind OpenAI's #1 Feature

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

OpenAI’s personalization leads, Christina Kaplan and Samir Ahmed map the shift from an “assistant with a notebook” to Pulse—the part of ChatGPT that quietly preps your day while you sleep. We unpack how short- and long-term memory work across sessions and why April’s subtle update changed the experience, show how daytime chats stay aligned with overnight prep, and close on the big questions: privacy, consent, and why this is an assistant/representative—not a digital clone.------💫 LIMITLESS | SUBSCRIBE & FOLLOWhttps://pod.link/1813210890https://x.com/LimitlessFT------TIMESTAMPS0:00 Intro1:03 Why Memory Mattered6:00 User Reception9:45 Under the Hood: Short vs Long Term12:20 Behavior Shift & Data Strategy20:26 What is Pulse?38:35 One Cohesive Assistant34:35 Pulse in Practice & Near-Term Roadmap40:43 Should It Surface Trends?43:43 Assistant ≠ Clone51:15 Closing Thoughts------RESOURCESChristina Kaplanhttps://x.com/ChristinaHartW Samir Ahmedhttps://x.com/PageOfSamir ------Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here:https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠ 

I'm so excited about today's episode. We are joined by Christina Kaplan and Samaya Ahmed, who both lead memory and personalization at OpenAI. Samaya, Christina, welcome. Thank you. So excited to be here today. Okay, you are both solely responsible for creating the most valuable moat that's ever been discovered in AI, memory and personalization.

In fact, I remember the very moment you guys released the memory feature, because five seconds before that, I was ranting to my friend about how annoying it was that chat GPT had no recollection of who I am when I opened a new chat. And it was like this light bulb moment went off where I stopped viewing chat GPT as this tool

and more of a friend. And that's an incredibly sticky product experience. But I want to hear about it from your side. What was it like to develop chat GPT's memory feature? Give us the inside scoop. What was it like to go about creating this visual? around memory. I think thanks for the generous introduction

there, Jazz. I think we probably would classify it slightly different. And, you know, to be totally candid, memory in Chat Chbett predates both Christina and me joining the team. I can rewind all the way back to 2022. Chad Chubit

comes out and I'll give you a little bit of an analogy here that I think is like truly apt way of how we think about it. And 2020, to sort of like, imagine you had an assistant in a room, you walked in, you asked a question, and it answered natural language.

And this was the first time you see in a computer like answer a natural language and gives you the answer, you leave the room, stops working, your assistant stops working. You walk back in, you say, hey, how's it going, ask another question? Assistant does not remember who you are, no idea. It's a paradigm shift, but it really is not, you know,

the type of experience that you would normally have in a, you know, situation we're working with an assistant. So fast forward maybe to 2024. It's almost like we gave chat chief D a notebook, and it could write certain things down as you were talking to it. And you would say something, chatry would write it down. It would try its best to know what's going on. You leave the room.

You'd come back. You'd ask another question. It would like scour through the notebook to help answer the question it had. And it's a little bit like, you know, maybe the movie Memento, where you got tattoos on you and you have like some clues, but it's not a perfect picture. So, you know, Christina and I've been thinking like, how can we make this better?

There are a lot of people involved here, but that's when, you know, the April memory update, that's around the time we came up with our latest variation of memory. Yeah, so the latest variation of memory, like we had an assistant, a person that had a notebook with information about you, but still very limited, like might understand your name, but doesn't really understand you or who you are or really can't carry a conversation from new conversation to new conversations. So the update to memory that we launched in April was really trying to, to bring a more natural memory to Chachbati.

So taking this person with, you know, Memento-style tattoos to be like a real person that remembers you that can like pick up a conversation from where you left off. So that's really what inspired this launch in April is turning Chachb-T's memory into something that's more natural. That is the beginning of what you might expect from like a real assistant that is like the same person in the conversation time after time that you come back and talk to them.

Yeah. And that's when I think, you know, that released early April. April. And that's funnily enough how, you know, we got in touch because we'd listen to, I think, a podcast you done on this. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about that, actually. What was it like? So we were talking about memory. I think Mia Jaws, Josh were all very inspired just by what could happen next. What door is this unlocked? You know, in hindsight, now, as a chat chbtee user, I'm like, oh, yeah, this seems like a very obvious, like, feature to unlock. But before it got delivered, I don't think anyone really knew where the arc of the, product was going. Again, now it seems obvious. Maybe you could put us in your shoes as you were, as you were listening to us like chit chat about our experiences with memory. What was going through your guys' heads? Yeah. Actually, like, Christina had just gone on vacation and I was just, you know, scrolling through everything on Twitter or looking for different coverage of it. And, you know,

we, the change was not like a visual feature that you could see. And so not everyone picks up on it right away. And I remember someone forwarded me a link to the podcast and I was a little skeptical and I was like, okay, let me read, let me listen. I listened before Limitless has forked off from bank lists. So as you know, I texted Christina. I said, you got to listen to these crypto bros talk about chat, JPT. And she was- I was skeptical. I was skeptical and then Samir basically like bullied me over the course of multiple days to listen to this podcast. He was like, this is like the thing. you have to do. It was really interesting

to hear you both talk about this launch and to hear I think David, you talk about it's a small step but maybe it's a small step that's really a big change

and I mean, AJJs, we like DM'd you on Twitter immediately to talk because we were just so curious like your reaction was like much stronger

but I'm very grateful to Samir for influencing listen to this on vacation. Also, funny story. Ajas, you made us do like

a three factor off. We've DMed you. Yep. And you're like, Can you prove this? Yeah. Yeah, we didn't know from our Open AI accounts. And then I got a mutual friend three-factor authentication before A.J.O.D.S.

was a.g. Yeah, I didn't believe Open AI was listening to the limitless podcast back then. But turns out we say some interesting things. Yeah. Yeah, the context for that is that, you know, in crypto, there's a lot of scams. And so when somebody from opening I texts you messages you on a very public social media platform, you're like, what's going on here? Can we color in a little bit about what was the bigger, the broader reception of memory when it was introduced?

Because I think just to kind of jog our listeners' memories because that was so many months ago, half a year ago, and time flies. I was skeptical. I honestly can't necessarily remember what I was skeptical about. I know I remember Josh being very excited, but give us the range of feedback and reception that chat Shept users had to the memory feature. This was a change that was mostly under the hood, except we did release a notification to share with people that this change was happening, and it kicked people into a conversation that was something like, tell me based on everything you know about me about who I am and make it catchy.

And I think the reception was twofold. There was like really strong reception actually stronger than I think we had originally anticipated to that prompt. Like people were really excited to see how Chashabit had been understanding them and really learning about themselves from hearing about Chachy-B-T's perception of them. But I think that we were surprised by the reception like a Jaws is, honestly. Like, hey, this really changes the experience

because other than that one notification, there really wasn't much to it visually. And we sort of hypothesized that this natural evolution of memory would be really meaningful. But it was a surprise to us how many people actually, like, felt that in their experience. And a lot of people will, like, extrapolate, come to, you know, jump to different ideas from that point in time as soon as they see it. And so

it was really, really interesting to just see different takes on this. But, you know, to ground us in how we think about it, a lot of it has to do with this just a universality of memory and how we can, we can sort of meet people where they are. And there's a little element to this around like, everyone has a different experience with chat GPT. If you're, you know, it's living in San Francisco or if you're living in Indonesia, if you're in Brazil, everyone has a way that they communicate with other humans. And memory helps sort of make the playing field universal so that people all over the world are able to communicate with Chat Chhabit

at the level that they understand. And it's not like mapping it to how people communicate or how people communicate or computers. Humans have been talking to humans for tens of thousands of years. Everyone sort of understands that. humans have been talking to computers or interacting computers for 30 years, button clicks, like widgets. And so that's maybe not as natural and not the best way to communicate and tackle higher order concept discussions.

Hey, Jaws. I'm curious to replay a bit of like your reaction because it was very strong and also like how you think about it now a few months later. Okay. So how I thought about chat GPT pre-memory was it was like talking to a friend that had amnesia. you'd have a conversation, you'd get into a topic about something, and then a couple hours later, it'd be like, hey, who are you?

Tell me about yourself. And that kind of broke the illusion. Maybe illusion's not the right word, but it kind of broke the experience a little bit. And so when I saw that memory update on my app, what you described as a kind of small internal under the hood update meant a lot more to me, because I knew that over the next few days,

I'd be having less of those, hey, this is me conversations, and more of just conversations that floated into something much more bigger that compounded. When you guys think about chatypti and the evolution of the product, I'm a psych major, and I find it very easy to put into metaphors a lot of how chatypte works, or at least how I understand it to work. So like the short-term, long-term memory. Like the short-term memory is literally what is the last four prompts that the user and I have just been

discussing. So let's retain that information first. But also in my context, in my response, and let me also understand a little bit about the deep truth that I know about this user and their interests and their hobbies. And I will frame my response based on the long-term memory

that I understand the user to be. When you guys are thinking about ChatTibati, do you think of it in a cognitive psychology lens? Yeah, we look at it. I think, you know, we try our best to look at some of the prior art here. And in that scenario, it's really helpful to understand like how humans interact with humans and some of the

advantages and pitfalls there. And Chatsui's memory is today nowhere as good as humans' memory and sort of understanding that just to people interactions and the fidelity and the triggers. So there's a lot that we can draw on from the sort of existing cognitive precedence. It's like a much more natural way for people to interact with something as well. Like on the other end of this is a person. So a person like I am interacting with with Chachibati, I interact with like many other people. It's much more natural to interact with something that you expect to be an assistant in a way that you would interact with another person. So I think a lot of the, like at the end of the day, this really comes back to like not Chachapit

but the user. Like how do people expect something to interact with them and like how do we meet everyone where they are and like what they expect as the user? I can't exactly remember what I was so skeptical about. Clearly that skepticism has dissolved because I remember just maybe one, two weeks after this feature got released, that I realized like, oh, this product gets better the more I'd tell it about myself. A lot of people had reached out to us further down the line, you know, weeks, months,

and then mentioned that this is one of their favorite features. And, you know, I would always ask, is it a single moment of magic or is it a slow burn? And, you know, different people give different responses, but for some people, it's a slow burn. Like, they just realize that things have shifted and chat Chabit is behaving in a way where clearly it understands them.

And I think it has to do with maybe how you're using it, everyone uses a different fashion. Yeah. And this feature, the memory feature, unlocked, I think what is many people's not favorite prompts, but I think a prompt that many people have at Chat ChbT, which is based on everything that you know about me,

who do you think I am? Or what do you think my personality is? Or some, like, hold up a mirror to me and tell me what you think I am. And so it kind of turns Chatsybti into a diary in a sense. I have queries and prompts, like help me plan a trip that I want to make. But also the trip that I want to make tells Chachybti a little bit about myself. And so every single prompt, it's like a little bit of just like, here's one more shade of who I am.

And it really encouraged me to like give Chachapiti all my data, tell me all my interest, tell me the secrets that I've never told anyone before. Yeah, talk to us about the arc of how user behavior changed with the introduction of the memory feature. It's a good question. I actually would say my user behavior has changed much more with, well, I think both with enhanced memory but also pulse, which came out last week, which is kind of like natural evolution from memory as well. But I think with memory, like I started sharing with Chachabit more context. So instead of just going there with a question that I wanted an answer to immediately, like I knew that this context would come up in like future conversations. conversations with Chachabit. So if you share like, hey, I'm looking for a fish forward restaurant for tonight, like, help me find that. It's kind of unclear to Chachabit, like, why am I looking for that?

Am I looking for it? Because like, I'm pescataring. And so it shifted my behavior into being more along the lines of like, hey, I'm pescatarian. I'm looking for a restaurant tonight. Can you like help me find something? And like I've started sharing facts along the way as opposed to just like going in with a question like I would in like a traditional search product. And then like down the line, as Samir mentioned, it's like a slow burn. You see those facts come up in the future. And so now Chachb-T, if I'm like asking about a restaurant, it will suggest like fish forward pescatarian restaurant friendly restaurants.

And I can just like expect that now. And so I've started just sharing like facts about myself in context that I like expect to be helpful in the future. It seems that this approach with Pals and with the data you guys are amassing, is solely meant to kind of help a better user experience for the person using chat GPT, right? It's like this personalized experience that helps them improve and get better.

But I do also want to address the elephant in the room, which is you guys now own so much data and not just any data, very personal data. I tell chat GBT everything and very willingly, very consentingly. And I have to ask, what are the plans with this massive honeypot of data? Are they any kind of like thoughts on new products

maybe new experiences that you could do with something like this? Yeah, I mean, I think we're very focused on like helping people achieve really meaningful things in their life. I definitely, you know, Sam has said too, like, Chachabit will probably be the most like sensitive account that people have. And like we take this very, very seriously. But there's also so much to be gained for this. Like I have many personal experiences in the health domain, for example.

I was going to get vaccinated for a trip I went on in July. and I had already shared some of my prior like vaccination forms as well as my labs that I had done with Chachibit. And I asked the nurse that I went to go get vaccinated with like, hey, what vaccinations do I need to go to this trip in like a month or so? And he gave me four vaccinations that I needed. And then I also asked Chachabit T like just to check and see what Chachabit thought. And Chachabit T gave me five vaccinations that I needed. I was like, what is the difference here? And the nurse had looked at my prior vaccination forms, and Chachb-T had pulled out that I had low immunity to varicella from a lab I had done early last year and was like based on your vaccination forms, you have these four that you need. And then you also have low immunity to varicela, so you need to add that one as well. And I think that's an example of like such a sensitive use of my data. Like I have literally uploaded all of my like labs and vaccination forms, which,

Chachibati, but it's helped with such a, like, individualized outcome. I wouldn't expect anyone to be able to go look at every single form I've ever shared with them before for every single, like, doctor's appointment. And so now I know that I can, like, go to Chachabit and ask, like, hey, I'm going to this doctor's appointment, like, what's relevant for that? But at the same time, like, I am a user of Chachabit sharing my, like, health information with Chachabit. And I think we take that, like, very, very seriously and want to make sure that people are able to get a lot of of value out of chat chabit in the way that they want. But yeah, at the same time, like, really taking data privacy and, like, security really, really seriously in the work that we do.

So I could imagine some property, some thing, like sign in with chat GPT on this website. And I go to some non-open AI website and I sign in with chat GPT. And now it's my agent, my LLM, my chat that is piped in to this website, my identity signed in with this website. And all of a sudden, this website can query is like, hey, what does this user want to see? And my LLM could answer them. These are just my thoughts about what you could do. But there is some notion about, like, the data and knowledge that ChatGBT GBT knows about me could be extended to the broader internet.

And the internet can finally be truly personalized to my interests. When you guys think about the product, is there how over the mark am I? I think that, you know, if you look at it back to our like, like, assistant intern analogy. Interns in the room, you go in, you talk about some stuff, you mention the, you know,

in my case that like I recently had a son who's nine months old now. And I come back tomorrow and the assistant's like, oh, hey, like, how's it going? Maybe here's a tip around like what you should expect in terms of like the development cycle and like when they're speaking or they're babbling. This is what it means.

If we extrapolate that, you know, and we just keep following that arc, I would love for that assistant to be able to go into the real world and do things on my behalf or represent me on my behalf to solve my goals. And it's just, you know,

today, Chachuita as a property can deliver so much value. But if you look at the arc of this, there's things that happen all over the internet. And I think like aspirationally, if you had an assistant, you'd want them to be able to go and solve problems all over the internet.

Talk to me about how you align an AI towards a human's goals though, right? Like when I think about like learning about me for us. Yeah. So when I think about me, a new person,

like making a new friend or learning deeper about a person, it takes so many different types of inputs. I'm looking at the expressions on their face, listening to the tone of their voice, and then I'm listening to the actual words that they're saying, not to mention that they have a lot of past experiences

that influence the words that actually come out of their mouth. When I think about the chat, GBT relationship, I'm just, I'm slamming a bunch of letters. Sometimes they make no sense. Sometimes there are a lot of typos.

How do you process that into an AI and say, this is the thing David needs to do or this is the thing EJAS needs to build? Well, we are at an amazing research lab. So one thing that's been really special about the personalization team too is we have like an end-to-end research product team. So we're able to make progress really quickly on the research side based on what our goals are in the product. And we have, as Samir said at the beginning, It really like takes a village to make personalization happen. And we have some amazing researchers working on this problem.

And it works the other way too. From the product end of it, if you pull out Chatsubit Pulse today, you know, you get to the bottom of the page and it will say, you know, curate for tomorrow. And that's effectively, you know, a goal that you could set for tomorrow or something that you want for tomorrow. I mean, it doesn't have to be for tomorrow necessarily. You could set a longer term aspect like I mentioned like, oh, give me up to date with development. mental milestones. Or it could be somewhat, you know, trivial.

Like, I'm a Formula One fan, and these races happen, like, at absurd times in the morning. And I'll always say, like, keep me up to day with Formula One news, but do not spoil the race for me. Otherwise, I'll be very angry. And there's no, like, there's no way you could communicate that in any other tool that has existed prior to chat to you. And get that level of, like, you know, captures level of nuance to it and provide the me utility in that case. Yeah, I already am doing this with like the curate function and impulse as, as Samir mentioned.

Like I'll say, hey, I'm going to a trip next week. I'm like going on a trip next weekend. Help me plan for my trip. I'm like, that's a goal I have to like plan a great trip to like London for a wedding that I was just at and Chachibouti is like sharing like coffee shops and pescatarian restaurants that I might like. And helps me kind of like look ahead and see like what's upcoming in my life.

And I'll just like start sharing things. like this is my goal, this is what I'm doing, and sort of expect chat Chb-T to, like, meet me where I'm at and help me, help me do that better. Let's get into Pulse. This is a brand-new feature that Sam Altman announced and credited you both specifically as the next step in memory and personalization. I kind of think of it as, like, my own personalized chat chepti.

I've gotten into the habit every evening, actually, before I go to bed, of talking to it. So, may you just give an example of saying, you know, tell me about the F1 news, but don't take it. Tell me who won because I want to watch the race. I've been doing similar things for all the other tropes of my life. You've explained kind of how it works, but let's pop open the hood. Like what's actually happening underneath that?

You've explained memory and kind of like putting together the identity behind David, the identity behind EJAS. Tell us about this next step of personalization and how it works. Well, yeah, first of all, this is like a feature that took a village. And we have an amazing, amazing team that help build Pulse. but it really is that next evolution of Chachibati, so you have an assistant that you go into the room, you start talking to them,

and now they know who you are every time you come back. But when you leave the room, they stop working. And so you have an assistant that basically like only works in your one-on-ones effectively. And like that's not someone that I would hire to be my assistant is someone that might know me and understand me, but only do work when I'm there, that I generally have to watch them do.

And with Pulse, we started to think about how can Chachb-T in understanding you, understanding what's important to you and your goals in life, help you when you're not there. So you don't have to spend all of your time in Chachapiti. And the goal here is not that people are spending all their time in Chachabit, it's that actually we're more successful when Chachabit is doing things and helping you, and you don't have to be there. So you come back every morning and there's like new value for you to get from your assistant

that was like effectively doing work when you went there. So basically behind Pulse is like we try to understand, you know, what's going to be important to you in the next few days. Upcoming, we introduced calendar and email connectors as part of Pulse as well. So not just looking at memory, but also, you know, what's upcoming in your calendar? What's just happened in your email? And how can chat GPT, like understand all this information, understand what's important to you, and then help you prepare for your day?

It is important to note that, you know, it jazz when you wake up and you scroll to the bottom of your Pulse page, you know, it ends. And so to sort of reiterate Christina's point there, we are trying to get you prepared for the day, help you accomplish wherever that goal is, whether it's a gym goal or it's some sort of event you're planning for, and then, you know, get back to your day. And if we do that, then we can take the time in the background, which at ChbT can figure out what's important

and, you know, spend the rest of the time that you're not interfacing with it, getting worked on, which is kind of what you would want from most of your assistance. Yeah, you can kind of feel. of it is like while you're asleep, chat chibit is like trying to process all this information you shared with it to understand how it can help you the next day. So then you wake up and there are like things that are ready for you that right now are mostly content based. So like what can what can your assistant share with you that's helpful? But you could imagine you wake up and your assistant's like, hey, I wrote this email for you. Do you want to send it? Or like, hey, I, you know,

prepared this for you. Do you want to go do that? And so I think the goal here is like becoming more and more like helpful and actionable over time. This is a side quest of a question. We're going to get off the main quest here. But the, I've heard the word like overnight, like chat chip petite thinks overnight. That was in some of the release documentation and you guys have used it a couple times here. Is that intentional or is it more just like just while you were asleep while you were away? Or is there actually like maybe there is a lull of when the GPUs are just quiet because everyone's

asleep. And so that's actually when we have the extra resources to apply to some of this kind of stuff, or am I just reading into this too far? We do have some more flexibility overnight, but the current instantiation of pulse is to help you prepare for your day. So, like, you're not there. You're not interacting and engaging with Chachb-T. We're, like, doing work in the background while you're asleep to help you prepare for

your day. Yeah. At least for myself, I always feel like, you know, speaking personally that when I'm asleep, I'm not, I'm not being very productive, though, you know, sleep is a very important part. And so there's definitely an element to, like, if you wake up and someone is a worked for you on what matters to you, and that's what you can start your day with, that feels like, you know, something that's clearly a step different to how you would operate in the past. I find it interesting how you both describe the Pulse experience, because when I open up

my phone, when I open up the chat GPT app, I have the memory setting, right? And I can go in there and tweak it a bit. But Pulse is kind of like its own app by itself. And so that kind of like bodes me to think or ask you, are these two separate products that are going to, like, live on their own and go off in completely different directions? Or are they very closely intertwined and maybe they end up merging into some coherent product experience in the future? Yeah, they are aiming to basically, like, augment the chat CBT experience as, like, your cohesive assistant. So I think it is supposed to be, like, these individual things that are laddering into, like, your personal assistant. your personal assistant needs memory.

Your personal assistant needs the opportunity to do work for you when you're not there. And that's like the early instantiation of pulse. And then your assistant needs to understand what you care about and what you're trying to achieve. So it can do those things like on target that's like helpful for you. If you had an assistant who could only do work overnight, but then when you talk to them during the day, didn't remember that or vice versa when they did work overnight, didn't reference what you discussed during the day,

that just wouldn't be, you know, an intuitive experience and it just wouldn't be helpful. So I think like at foundationally, you know, everything is a function of like the memory and our understanding of how Chatshpiti understands you. And so I imagine that as it evolves, you know, Chatshpiti you could take different shapes, but you can envision that like your assistant will be there

and understand it regardless of what format you're, Samir, you said you'll notice that at the end of your notifications, your morning poll notifications, that it'll stop. It'll stop scrolling. And reading into that, I kind of see that as we're not here to make you addicted to chat CBT. We are here to deliver you value and then be done. Is that a part of opening eye culture?

Or is that just something that you said? How far does that ethos kind of permeate through the organization? We've said this in many different forums that ChatGBTGBT is here to help you accomplish your goals and not to hold your time or attention. And I think the way we've designed Pulse sort of mirrors the ethos that we espouse throughout all of our Chat ChbT decision making. I really do think we're like maximally helpful to you if Chachabit is doing a ton of work for you that's really valuable and helps you do things in your real life. and you're not spending that much time with Chachabit. So, like, the hope would be you can share more context with Chachabit. You can share more information with Chachabit,

but you don't have to be, like, always coming to Chachapit with a question that you expect, like, an immediate response to. And so you wake up, like, what I would like out of Pulse personally is, like, I wake up and then Chachabit has done a bunch of things that I could have done myself, but maybe, like, didn't need to spend time on. And then I can just say, like, boom, boom, boom, like, those are done and get out of the app. like that would actually be the most valuable to me. So we are very focused on like in an ideal world,

ChatsyBT is like doing a bunch of work on your behalf because it understands you, it understands what you care about. And then you're getting in there to like help steer it to the things that are most impactful to you, but you don't have to spend all of your time there. I've noticed that at least with me and my relationship with Chat ChbT is that I am a producer.

I tend to be a producer when I engage with Chat Chabit. as opposed to Twitter, Instagram. I tweet a lot, and so maybe I'm a producer in the Twitter context too, but I'm also a big consumer. I read more tweets than I write. And on Instagram, almost primarily a consumer, I'm just brain riding away, consuming the reels. But when I open up ChatGBT, GBT, I do a lot of my writing

inside of chatypt. And in fact, I do a lot of writing at Bankless, a newsletter or in other contexts. And the next article that will come out of Bankless, the first half of that article was me actually just starting a prompt with chat GPT. I was like, wait a second, my prompt and this article are highly overlapping. And so I've just personally noticed that, like, in my explorations on a line of thought

or almost anything, I'm producing something, even if it's not the final form, it's like an anomaly that like my prompt and a newsletter is kind of going to be the same thing. But like, nonetheless, the net vibe is I'm trying to produce knowledge. and my time spent in Chb.T is productive. Once again, not a question here, but just like, I don't know, thoughts or reflections on that kind of like dynamic or relationship. I think we hear that from a lot of people.

And like, it's definitely my personal experience too. When I go to Chachibati, I'm trying to, like, stay fit and make sure I'm, like, finding time every day to do. So in polls, I actually asked for every day, I'd like a 10-minute Pilates routine. Because sometimes I only have 10 minutes. And so I wake up and that's ready for me. And I can just, like, jump into that when I'm up.

in the morning. Or I'd like to learn more about this thing over time and Chachabit can like come back and help me learn about something. I'd like to prepare for my, we have a team like fantasy football league. So I have Chachabit like cooking on my weekly lineup via Poub to help me know if like there's anyone I need to sub in from my bench. And I think that's more of like it is productive. It's like productive time that that I personally spend in Chachabit. And like everyone's different. I don't go to Chachabit to write. Sometimes I go to Chachabit to Cachabit to Cote. but we want to help people do more in their lives in ways that really

adds value to them. So it sounds like, from what you both are saying, the ultimate vision of personalization memory, pulse is to just help the user, help the chat GPD users, improve their lives, be that personalized assistant.

And I guess the immediate question that jumps to me is, okay, let's take Pulse, for example, what's it doing for you both specifically now and what could I, expect that it would do for me maybe six months from now. What does that trajectory look like? Yeah, at least for me right now, like I mentioned, other than keeping me up to date with Formula One and not ruining races for me, you know, I've been trying to set a number of miles I want to run in a week and I just have Paul's check in on that every day. And otherwise it's a little bit, you know,

out of sight, out of mind. I get distracted with something else. That's like a very simple example. A broader example is trying to be a better parent and understanding it's like my first kid and so there's a lot of things you learn going through the process trial by fire and so I've been using Chatsu-Eat Chb-T prior to Pulse on this and so that's a large part of my life

and it helps me with that. I can imagine the future it's able to do more think of the things that Chatsh-V-T is able to solve for you today there's the entire internet of information out there there's things that are in my email in my calendar that could figure out, it could figure out a way to maximize my time so that I spend more time in my son on weekends.

And so I think if you, you know, as you mentioned, it's about like being able to solve the true goals that people have. And so a lot of them just look like what we would do next to be able to solve that goal. And Christina gave a great example around like, you know, being able to like process my emails and let me know what's important,

be very helpful for me as well. Yeah, I can pull. at my pulse today. So I have my, like, quick Pilates flow that I get every single day. I did that this morning to kind of, like, ease into my day and, like, and the goal is to stay fit when I'm in, like, a busy, a busy job. So I think for me, Chachibati, T right now via Pulse is helpful to, like, take things off my plate, like, save me time, basically, every single day. I also have Chachabit T keeping an eye on SF restaurant openings. So I love to, like, go to a new restaurant. We do team dinners. And on multiple occasions in the past month, we've, like, found a restaurant through Pulse because I had asked Chachabit to keep an eye on, like, restaurants opening up near our office.

So it really, for me, ranges from, like, very meaningful, like, health and personal goals to more lighthearted, but still, like, changing things in my real life. So at this point, I've, like, really changed multiple things I've done in my life because of Pulse. But I think it's still very limited. It's mostly content-oriented, as we mentioned right now. And what I would really like Pulse to be doing in six months is queuing up, like, things that I would have done that Chachabit can take off my plate. So waking up and saying, like, hey, here's a response to this email. Hey, here's a response to this text message. Do you want me to just, like, go ahead and send it for you?

Or your upcoming trip, I didn't just find a few restaurants. I planned, like, a whole itinerary for you, an agenda for you while you're there. So I think as our model, like, capabilities get better. And then as we learn from user feedback, like, that is the trajectory that we're going towards is this, like, Chachapiti can do more for you when you're not there. And ideally in ways where it can start to, like, act on your behalf or help you take actions faster. What I see here, and it's not going to be a perfect analogy, but just like we're, Chachyipti is unlocking parts of like the brain, the tech tree of the mind.

Like we've got short-term memory. Now we've got long-term memory. now it's continuing to think even when we're not there, so we're just using more parts of the brain or more total capacity. What are you guys working on next? Like, what's the next part of the brain that gets added on to this assistant

that is becoming more and more useful? What would you want from Chashabit next? I think I'm kind of ready for it to escape the form factor of a website. I find sometimes, like, I just won't use chat chepti because I have such a long thought. They're like, it's going to take me so long to type that out. And yes, I know you have the voice feature.

But like I just sometimes I feel like chat chitp t is a little trapped inside of this kind of blank front end that doesn't get me started. Like when I go to chat chit, it's like, tell me what you want. I'm like, I bet a lot of people want to be told what they want actually. So like there's one notion of this like some people don't know what they want and they need help to get there. there's one notion of like the form factor is kind of trapped. It's like a constrained form factor. What do I want though? I think I could like meditate on that and come back with a better answer after a while

though as well. I don't know if you have any thoughts or reflections on that. One of the things that's most exciting to me is, and you see this today with chat cheptie, is that it's just able to connect the dots between different domains in your life really effectively. And so, you know, I will have my calendar connected to chat chaptain. and it'll figure out that I've, you know, I mentioned I want to go running.

It's like, suggests some spots during the day where I can do it. And it knows like where I am that part of the day and it's just running routes near there. I've obviously like, I've talked to a lot about this and asked about this. But the fact that it's able to like blend these things in, I can just imagine, you know,

in six months it would ideally be able to solve problems that, and like connect dots between different parts of my life, whether it's like lifestyle, elements like Christina mentioned sleep, you know, work elements of it. And so I think that's, that's the most exciting part. And at some point in time, it'll be connecting dots that I can't connect for myself. And that's like, you know, if I could explain that today, I would explain it. But I think it's really, that's the magic of chat chbt in this case. Yeah, it's already hard for me to do that. Like I have a CGM, like a glucose monitor right now. And I have like various things

to track my sleep. And I have to like screenshot and then like overlay and also say like I have these things too that are going on in my life. And there's just so much like data. It's so exciting that people have an opportunity to like own their data and like learn more about themselves, especially like, yeah, I just, I use like so many different things to help me understand like how I can sleep better, mostly stay in shape. And I just don't have time to connect all the dots. So I'm constantly like screenshoting and uploading to Chachabit, but it would be great if Chachabit could just proactively like connect all these dots for me. I have the same experience of like I just went on a run, let me take a screenshot of Apple Fitness and tell ChatchipT how I think my

ran went. And then it will have some sort of interpretation about how it think my ran went from my interpretation and then also the screenshot of the data, which has to be a terribly slow way of getting to that conclusion. Yeah, like when I get a DM spike, it's like, wait, what did I eat at that point earlier in today again? Like it's like the data is all there, but it's not connected. and it's like so hard for people to connect those and like understand their lives. So I personally, that's like what I would want to build for myself. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm sure the app that you use on your glucose monitor,

if you're using levels or not, I used levels in the past. If you like have a glucose spike, I'm sure that app would be like, yo, tell me what you just ate. And if we have a trusted assistant actually asking you that question, that seems like the right U.S. I just get the like your glucose is like way too high right now. and running between meetings, like trying to figure out later in the day

what I ate at that time. Since we have you guys here, I want to ask about a thought experiment that I've had a theorized product feature, which is there was this one time, this is going to be a weird example of how to get here, but when Dolly Parton played at the Super Bowl halftime show, there was a meme that went around on Twitter,

which was immediately five minutes after she started playing, the query of, of how old is Dolly Parton just went completely viral because everyone was asking, how old is Dolly Parton? And so that was something that was actually kind of nice to see on Twitter and also in Google, like they had all this data,

it's like all of a sudden 20 million people are asking the question, how old is Dolly Parton? I would actually love to have this feature in chat GPT where like I'm asking this query, but like what are other people querying right now? Like what are the trending queries that is uniquely trending in this moment of time? And so right now my relationship

with Chat Chabot, is like one-to-one. I have my assistant. It has me. But like, what about the hive mind of everyone? It's interesting. That's an interesting request, Dave.

I think that, you know, one of the, one of the most important things about chat Chb-T is that it's really between you and chat ChAPT. Yeah. And so I think that's what makes it, makes it special, makes it understand you,

makes it solve your problem. And, you know, there's probably, like you mentioned, cases where if Chatsy-T knew you were, watching the Super Bowl and knew you'd be interested in Dolly Parton's age, then, you know, ideally, you know, it would be able to answer that question or think of that question and get an answer for you beforehand. But, you know, if you knew the age, it wouldn't have to

disturb you with that either. Yeah, it's not necessarily about just like, it's more about just like understanding the global internet traffic and global demands of everyone and just like all of a sudden the whole earth just got curious about this one thing or, or pointing in the loose direction. And I think like having like a feedback loop between not just, not just me and my assistant, but my assistant, like one way to be an assistant to me is to tell me, it's like, yo, here's a trend. You might be missing out on it.

Let me inform you on this trend. And then you can opt into that trend if you are ready to opt into that trend or not. Yeah. I mean, my honest reaction here is like we have similar to what Samir said, like really leaned into, it's like you and chat to BT. And so we have not, like I have not spent. a lot of time thinking about like how to connect the dots across different users. Maybe like if that is useful to people like this is like really interesting to hear your

feedback here, but but we are very focused on like chat Chachabit is like your Chachabit. It's like completely aligned with you. But as that could be helpful, it is interesting to think about like how does Chachabit like go into the real world for you. But yeah, so far we're very focused on you and Chachabit. which I appreciate. So here's how I think about chat GPT. And please don't take offense to this.

I think it's like the algorithm for my life. That's how I want to treat it at least. So I'm giving it all this information. And kind of any medium that I interact with, whether it's on a screen, whether it's on a different app, whether it's in person, I kind of like having this assistant around that is able to kind of make me better,

critique what I'm doing, or just kind of like guide me in general. You keep using the words assistant when you describe this kind of ultimate manifestation. Like is it an assistant? Is it this agent? I keep hearing about agents doing things for me and doing my job whilst David isn't looking. And so, you know, being an autonomous version of me, is that the ultimate realization of what you guys are building? Is that the end form factor? Yeah, I think so. And actually, this jogs like a memory in my mind from your original podcast when we shipped the update to memory where I think someone on the podcast said something like, oh, Chachabit will be like a digital clone of you and like go be you in other spaces. And that is like personally not how I think of it.

Like we do think of Chachapit as like your assistant that is not like, I'd be curious like your thoughts on this point as well. But yeah, we think of Chachachachia as like your assistant that really understands you and is completely aligned with you, but is like a different entity than you. Yeah. I think assistant is broad enough that it captures a large, like possible venue of actions. Another concept that I've used is like my representative. Like if I am a way, can my chat represent me in a particular context? I know there's like the theorized idea of like there's dating apps. And before I go on a date with anyone, my chat will talk to their chat. And those two people will represent their respective users and say like,

yo, are we a good fit? And like, sure, that's an assistant too. But also representative as well, like my advocate as well. Again, everything kind of like collapses down to assistant at the end of the day, however. We definitely think about it in the sense of like, you know, your assistant sounds like it's

assisting you, you know, not, not sort of like shooting the basket itself. But I imagine like GPT-5 is just so brilliant. And if we're able to scale intelligence, so many different domains, I can easily imagine that like you would have experts working on your behalf. And if you had a dating expert working on your behalf,

there is a future where that would simplify things for you as well. But I certainly think that like, you know, assistance a word we're using now, but we're creating new experiences and we're getting to the point where, you know, chat Chb-T could discover new, make scientific breakthroughs. And if they're able to do it on your behalf, that's also, you know, sort of the future you'd want to be in.

Yeah, I just really love representative or delegate it because I think it implies the sense of Chachibati is like on your side. And that is like mainly what we're trying to like build Chachb T into is like this thing that understands you, understands what you care about and is like on your side. Like in a situation where Chachabit is, Chachabit would act like you would act like with your like best interest in mind. So I really love those terms. Yeah.

And it's also loaded with trust as well. Like I trust my representative. I trust my delegate. Yeah, there should be no, like, misalignment between, like, you and your representative, you and your, like, delegate. I think that's, like, the main thing we're spending our time on. And I love those terms. But that's the goal is to build Chat Chb-T and to sort of, yeah, like, your representative. Yeah.

As chat gets more intelligent, though, like, Assistant is very much a subordinate. Like, my assistant is, like, less successful than I am and less intelligent than I am. But as we get into chat, Chbutee, 678, all of a sudden, that's going to, if it's not already, it's going to be flipped. And it's all going to be like a more of a mentor than it is an assistant. Yeah, I don't think, I mean, there are a lot of brilliant assistants out there.

And so I don't know that I think of assistant in the same way as you do, but I do really love, like, representative for that, for that reason. Because it really should be like, kind of an ex, like, I think of Jachuti is like an extension of me. I'm like, I'm comfortable with this thing, like, pushing me and really, like, helping me do what's important to be in my life. life and like yeah David maybe chachabit is like yelling at you to do the things that you care about because that's what you need that's how i get motivated you know yeah like i need the like push in my life too

so i'm i'm definitely more comfortable with like myself like a self extension of me but not like a copy of me doing that necessarily okay maybe a hot take but i i don't entirely agree with you guys all three of you on on this one okay yeah it's your hot take you're your hot take well well It's like, yeah, I want a representative. Yeah, I want an assistant. Yeah, maybe I want someone to yell at me in general. But the only way this is going is AI gets smarter than us. It knows me better than I know myself. And I wanted to kind of put me eventually in a position where we either work together or like, I'm kind of like working with it under like an employee role or whatever that might be. And that's an extreme example. That sounds pretty like dumerism. But I kind of view

as that being the ultimate form of AI. And then number two is, I think my AI or whatever this personalization thing becomes should be able to interact with other people. Because that's how I learn in general, right? Like I talk to people, I have conversations, I share social content, I learn from different books and different things

and thoughts and ideas that everyone else has had. And I would like a form of my chat GPT to be able to do that. And it sounds like what we're building right now is very personalized to you, private, which I love. I come from the crypto background as well. So it's very important to me. But I wonder if there's some kind of social network

that might be able to kind of build upon that. So for the first part of this, you said an employee relationship, do you mean like you would be Chachabit's employee or that? That's what I heard. Yeah, yeah. In a way. And I know I said that intentionally to make it because it sounds weird, right? It's like, why would I work for an AI?

But I want to push back and kind of say, well, if the AI is smarter than me, is all encompassing, sees all this amazing data, can pull together all these connections. Would that kind of make sense down the line? Is that weird? I don't know. It's a little weird. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I do personally still think of it as like, Chajibati can be your super assistant. Like, it can do more than you can do. But if it's like helping you do more in your life, then ultimately it's like aligned to helping you self-actual. effectively. So, I mean, how it ends up like playing out, I think our hope is that, yeah, Chachabitia will basically help you self-actualize the things that you really care about in life. And maybe that means doing more than you were previously capable of doing, but still, like,

as your representative. Yeah. And if that means it's, you know, giving you work, a jazz, and that's your self-actualization. Oh, God. I'm going to be the first slave for age. And you're going to like it. Christina Samir, thank you so much for spending the time. I've got to say this hour has absolutely flown by. Thank you so much for making the time in what is evidently a very busy time and era for open AI. Thank you to the listeners for spending this time with us.

It's been a dream to have open AI folks, specifically the personalization and memory, to come on and dive into the things that we're interested in. And the general hope is that we keep this relationship going. AGI does eventually become my employer. I want to talk to you guys about that. And maybe that becomes a therapy session. I have no idea. I have no idea.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. If you have feedback on this episode, comments, thoughts, disagreements with my view on AI employment ship, please comment, like, subscribe, or send hate mail. And we will see you on the next one.