LINUX Unplugged - 487: The Debian Debate

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

After nearly half a year of woe, Brent is ready to give Linux the go. Join us as we compare and contrast two Linux distros and end up with one going on Brent's machine. Plus, follow-up on Chris' GrapheneOS adventures and more.

All right, so Casey asked the chat AI bot, introduce a cool open source project to be discussed on a Linux podcast opening. All right, so do you think, okay, I haven't read this yet. Let's see if the bot can generate a pre-show. You guys ready? Ready. The bot writes, In this episode, we'll be discussing a cool open source project called Ansible.

Ansible is a powerful automation tool that allows users to easily manage and deploy applications across multiple servers. With its simple and easy to use interface, Ansible makes it easy for even non-technical users to automate complex tasks and streamline their workflows. Join us as we explore the capabilities of Ansible and learn how it could improve your Linux experience. Wow, we should do an episode on Ansible. That got me fired up. Casey, ask it to do a pitch for a Debian-based episode. Let's see what it says for that. Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show.

My name is Chris. My name is Wes. My name is Brent. Hello, boys. Well, we got a big episode this week. Can we keep Brent on Linux after nearly half a year of woe? Brent might be ready to give Linux the go. So we set out to find the distro that he can settle down and make home.

Well, that's what I think we found it. But there's been one distro that has had strong signal from the audience telling us he must try this. So we'll compare and contrast the two contenders and see which of those two, which distro lands on Brent's machine. If you've been frustrated with Linux desktop in the past, this episode is going to be a good one for you. Plus, I've got some big follow-up on my switch to Graphene OS from iOS, and then we'll round out the show with some boosts and picks and a lot more. So before we go any further, let's say time-appropriate greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room! Hello!

You all wore matching tuxedos this week. I don't know. I'm glad you, I'm glad you guys coordinated that. I don't know how you did it, but you look sharp. Now that's a good test run for the tuxes, but that's not this episode that's coming up. So make sure you keep all of those.

You're going to have to extend the rental. Just put it on, put it on Brent's credit card. Also say good morning to our friends over at tail scale. Tail scale is a mesh VPN protected by Wirecard. That's right. We love it, and it'll change your game. So go say good morning to our friends over at Tailscale.

Try it for 20 devices for free on your machine. You're going to love it. You're going to thank me. In fact, you should thank me. Tailscale.com. Tell them the unplugged program sent you. Tailscale.com. Whoop, whoop, whoop.

I've been running Tailscale on that Graphene OS device. In fact, it's how I'm doing all of my networking, but we'll get to that because that can sometimes also pose a challenge. But I've successfully made it past the honeymoon phase in my switch from iOS to Graphene OS, which we talked about in episode 486 of the Unplugged program, so last week's episode. talked about in episode 486 of the Unplugged program, so last week's episode. And I'm really proud to say, according to screen time on my iPhone, I have not used my iOS devices, iPad and iPhone combined, for more than 15 minutes last week. Wow. Are you feeling okay? This is unusual.

I think that's an indication that the Switch is going well. I haven't seen you, like, complaining, you know, sort of a rage frustration outburst. There haven't been any of those this week. No, no, you know, there's nothing that's been really like bubbling over. This made me so grumpy. There's definitely been a couple of things I've noticed now that the honeymoon

phase is over that I do want to get to and just kind of warn people about. But I think we got to celebrate the bigger win because ultimately my goal last week was to try to make Wes my pixel buddy and see if he could go for a pixel 7 with graphene os and how did that turn out Wes well here's my new pixel 7 pro I haven't had a chance yet to uh actually get graphene os installed but that's coming up this week very excited about that so Wes got one too and we're going to graphene os it up and we're going to both give it a go. Now there was a couple of notes we got into the show about this. And so I thought I'd address some of this. Curious Carnivore sent a note in with 10,000 sats and he said, new listener

here. Guys, guys, check this out. How amazing is this? New listener here. I've been interested in Linux for a while, but I didn't act until I'd recently when I realized that if any of the big companies went under, I'd be in real trouble. I decided to go all in and I transitioned as much as possible in my life over to Linux in the self-hosted model. This is right here. I'm all about this. This is so where my head's at right now. It's what we've talked about. The self-hosted podcast is about like, man i'm so all in right now to curious carnivores booze so then he continues last week i grabbed a pixel 7 on sale and i put graphing os on it and spent the weekend creating my own next cloud instance tuning in and listening to chris do the same just had me laughing a little because again he he's a brand new listener. I think you found the right show. You imagine like getting a pixel, switching to graphing OS, setting up next cloud, having this

realization about the big tech companies, and then catching the pod where we're talking about this. Incredible. And it's, it is in big part, I thank you to our baller boosters out there who have been keeping us high in the Fountain FM charts. We are stacking new listeners every single week because of that. It has been great for the show. We have new listeners all the time. And a lot of them are really focused on security, privacy, and open source. So it's like incredible.

And it was really cool to hear Curious Carnivore going through that same process. Maybe Curious Carnivore can boost back and let us know if they're also trying out Debian Staple. Yeah. Yeah, I think Debian would make a great long-term safe workstation. Bloomberg reported semi-recently, but I discovered it this week, that Apple has been limiting the AirDrop file sharing in China where the protests are happening. And for the context on this, this is a big deal because AirDrop is peer-to-peer, and this is how the protesters have been disseminating information and messages to each other is through AirDrop because nobody can censor something that's peer-to-peer and decentralized and apple issued a quote-unquote security and bug fix update that disables airdrop that puts a 10-minute cap basically on receiving airdrop files in china where the protests are taking place now apple claims this feature will be rolled out to the rest of the world but it just happened to roll out first in China where the protests are taking place when the protesters have been documenting using AirDrop to communicate. It kind of just underscores why I wanted to take this on. I am willing to try for a year, if that's what it takes, to leave the Apple ecosystem and move over to something like Graphene OS.

to leave the Apple ecosystem and move over to something like Graphing OS. And I decided this last week after the episode to spend some time into digging into what Google has on me location-wise. And it's impressive. I mean, it's cool because they'll show it to you. And I got to give them credit for that. Like they've built tooling to show you what they're doing to you. And to that i give them credit right it's kind of a it does remind you like oh yeah i did go there and then you think

back to like oh what why was i there again so there's that aspect of it it would be nice if you felt like you had any control over it yes like i saw that stuff and i'm like you know i want that information i just want it on my own private system that feels like an important distinction doesn't it yeah i don't want them having it maybe it's fine for for average tech users but as somebody you know who's considered themselves a technical user i just don't i don't like that i don't like the implications of what that could give them i said i had this kind of i mean it i would almost describe it as the sensation of feeling grossed out when i saw it a little little like, oh, you've been really watching me. Like a tiny bit of vomit in your mouth or something?

Yeah, yeah, a little bit. And so I decided to disable the location stuff. And to Google's credit, they give you this ability to auto delete. It doesn't give you like immediate deletion. In fact, I read through their description on this, but you can tag stuff to get deleted and then it can still take up to three to six months before it's actually deleted off of Google system. Look, we got to send a crew in there to the data center. They manually scrub the files. And there's a, there's a one month mandatory wait period, just in case you change your mind. So they hold it for a month before they do anything. You see, adding your data and collecting your data, they can do that at innovative light speed. But deleting your data, that's real hard. And it takes them up to six months. So you can set it to just auto delete after like 30 days, I think, or three months might be the smallest window.

There's some window there. And then you can turn it off for certain applications. And I decided to do that to see if I could notice anything. And I don't notice any difference. Of course, I'm not using google services as much anymore but i was a little grossed out by it you know when i saw that and there was this interesting you know kind of visual element to it and i think i mentioned to you guys in our private chat the day i switched to graphene os the map goes blank wow there's there's just nothing they got nothing and and like it's down to like the minute by minute location before that i think the question there is it went blank for

them but did you find that it was a struggle more so for you or was it just like every day for you for me the the real like the big kind of blow has been Waze. I counted Friday evening when I drove home around, I drove home a little early. I drove home around 345-ish. And there were three separate speed traps in a 22-minute drive. Yeah. And I've actually counted as high as six. Wes knows because I'll complain about it off air.

I mean, rightfully so at that scale. And so as a result, Waze has gotten a large amount of adoption on the stretch of road that I travel. And there's a network effect that actually practically could save me money because I sometimes have a bit of a speed tendency. I may be breaking other laws that we don't need to go into. There's other podcasts for that. It's fun. Yeah. And I think I've been a passenger in your car enough to know that every single person on the road is doing that in that little stretch.

Yes. You know the stretch I'm talking about. It's not just you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So not having ways, I feel like is one of these things where I have all these moral objectives and these theoretical ideas and all this principled stuff about my tracking and my data. And then I'm going

to get pulled over and get like a $200 speeding ticket because the speeding tickets are outrageous here. And I'm going to feel really stupid for not using Waze. So in the back of my mind, I am considering using the iPhone for CarPlay and just using Waze in a logged out account. But I haven't decided yet. I don't know if that's cheating. I'd actually like to know what you guys think. Because so far I've been pure Android. But I don't have CarPlay or Android Auto in Graphene.

There's no Android Auto. And Waze is particularly crashy. So even if if even if i wanted to give that data to google i have found ways on android is junk and so i'm not using it but is it cheating to have an iphone in the car like a car phone you know like like back in the day you'd have a car phone i thought about like how ludicrous is this, but A, I already own the iPhone. And B, my folks had dedicated car phones. Well, my dad had a dedicated phone, a line,

for like something physically installed in his truck, for his work truck. Is it that much different? I don't think so. It depends on how you use it. It's a gray area, right? Like if you're also using it for iMessage and to start controlling home automation. But if you're also using it for iMessage and to start controlling

home automation. But if you're using it to navigate, it doesn't seem that much different. Like a lot of cars have built-in nav systems, right? Is that so different? They could be running embedded Linux or Android and we wouldn't, you know, we wouldn't worry about it that much even if it... So it seems reasonable to me as long as you limit the scope of it. Much like I wouldn't fault if you had to have a dedicated device if your banking app didn't work and you just ran that on your iPad so you could scan checks if you had to or something. Those are real world compromises that we're just going to have to make. It still is a better privacy position, right? This is a great set of justifications. I feel completely validated. I feel like I should be doing this. Now, hopefully Brent can come in

hot here and just trash it all down. Talk me out of it, Brent. Well, I'm about to. I think the appliance approach is a good one, especially for your car, because it just sits in the car all the time. I think that would probably be okay for you in the health of the phone. It wouldn't work for me because it'd be freezing all the time. But it makes me wonder about your goals, because your goal is to be less tracked by these bigger corporations. And so if they're tracking you with where your car is going all the time, not your person, in your case, I think actually those two are quite similar. So it sort of breaks down your intention of protecting yourself from all that. I think I could avoid Google from knowing my location, at least identifying it to me.

But in that scenario, there's no way to prevent Apple from knowing my location. Well, but you're also using Waze, which is owned by? Google, right. I would just try to do it in a signed out session or something like that. I feel like I kind of see where you're coming from, Brent. This has been a struggle because it's like

this could cost me real money and also kind of silly, I know, but I could have bought one year older and been pretty happy with my car. But I bought one year newer because I wanted the larger screen for CarPlay integration. It's like, played in it. So like, and now here I am, and I'm not super happy with the Bluetooth integration. I've never liked bluetooth but also i've ran into this bug where when i'm playing a podcast i can turn the volume down but i can't turn it up so if i turn it down for a moment it's stuck there then i have to go play another piece of media i can turn that up then switch back to the podcast and i'm doing all of this on the phone while I'm going down the road and I'm thinking to myself, I should really just be using the iPhone.

I suppose there's a safety element at play here if you're all distracted trying to make your software work. I've tried using, and I really like it other than the crowdsource traffic features, but I tried using Magic Earth. This was sent in by the audience. It is a free application. It is not open source itself, but it is relying on the open source OpenStreetMap data. This is one of the best nav apps I've used in years. Absolutely in love with Magic Earth. Permanent user for me, sticking with Magic Earth from now on for other types of navigation. Absolutely love it. Love the way it displays stuff. Love all the options in in the app love the fact that it

shows elevation on your route just all this kind of stuff that i need is really handy and it totally has support for reporting traffic stops congestion construction police cameras like it has support for all of that in the app i'd say it has more nuanced and better support than even Waze does, but nobody's using it. Not in my area, not in my area. That's been my experience so far too. You told me you were trying it and I've been trying to switch to it too. It's funny how I hadn't realized how ingrained

the pattern matching of Google's particular style of maps my brain had become. So I just cold turkey switched, started using Magic Earth and I was like, wait, can I read this? Even though I think the display is ultimately more clear in their indication of what lanes to take is way better. But it definitely took me a day or two before I felt like I was as comfortable with it.

But after that, I've been impressed. Yeah, I think I agree with you. I'm still transitioning. But one thing I like that they do is when you're looking at it, it's just like a regular old map program, 2D you can look and search for stuff and has a pretty good database of stuff i have to give them credit there but when you go faster than like 10 miles or when you go about 10 miles per hour it switches to 3d mode because it assumes obviously you're driving and it does 3d representations of the buildings around you which is nice for when you're looking at roads

and how they turn like when you're driving downtown. So Magic Earth is really powerful in that way. And then it has a bunch of other really nice features in there that I just, I think I'm going to stick with it for a while, at least when I'm routing on Android. And then I get good routing without having to use Google. Chris, have you considered Jeff, listener Jeff's approach of putting a Raspberry Pi in your car? I know you're a fan of mine. Actually, yeah. I actually first thought, well, maybe I should just get a Garmin.

I'll go Noah's route, and I'll just put a Garmin in there. But again, you have the network effect, and they're not reporting the speed traps, which is my number one thing. But when I was thinking about media management and the way Jeff has it with a Raspberry Pi, and he just has all this stuff on there, I was like, there's some appeal to that, actually. Just get it off the phone altogether. Just forget it. No phone to worry about. And you don't have to worry about Bluetooth or getting it to connect. You just get in and it turns on and it plays.

And even the volume works. Yeah, even the volume will work. Wes, I know you've run into this one. I think this is an Android problem because I know you've run into this with your Pixel and you have stock Android on your Pixel 3. And this is an Android problem because I know you've run into this with your Pixel and you have stock Android on your Pixel 3. And this is so annoying. And it's so quintessential Android that if you're switching from iOS, it's an example of a problem that never happens on iOS but happens on Android. You know. I do.

It's so bad. So if I'm watching a live stream on YouTube, in the official YouTube app. Yes, I have new pipe and I'm, I'm loving it. It is actually really great, but I still like the, uh, suggestions on YouTube. And then I'll, what I can do, I've realized is I can take a URL in YouTube and I can share it to new pipe and I can watch it in the new pipe app. So I'm, I'm learning a workflow to get out of the YouTube app. So this is going to be better, but the YouTube app is still King for live streams. So I'm going to the YouTube app for live streams and, you know, maybe somebody's going for two hours on a live stream and I'll stop watching 45 minutes in because, you know, I'm doing something

else. And this happened to me this morning, actually. I checked a live stream, a weather live stream, because we've got crazy weather going on right now and then i switch to a podcast and i'm listening to my podcast and all of a sudden a youtube video starts playing just another youtube video not the live stream i was watching but another youtube video i haven't been in the youtube app for an hour right and i believe in west you can tell me if you think this is what it is too is when whatever live stream I was watching in the YouTube app ends, in the background, the YouTube app is now playing another video automatically and it just takes over and starts playing.

And I believe it particularly happens, I've noticed, when creators on YouTube are hiding, you know, like they're going to publish their like edited live stream later or something. And so then they like remove that live stream from YouTube and like the app can no longer be updated

and paused on that video or something. But yeah, no joke. It happened to me this morning too. You know, I woke up, checked a couple of things. I was like, oh, what's this going on this morning? Standing in the kitchen chatting with a friend and yeah, all of a sudden my pocket's making noise. Yeah, it just starts going.

And you know, you hope it picks a decent video because you have no control over that. Sometimes I watch weird stuff, all right? And I have to explain, oh, I was watching a live stream of the snow this morning. Just the whole thing is so embarrassing. It's not usually Windows 95 installation, okay? So there's that. But I think that's just a bug in the youtube app that has nothing to do with graphing os i i guess maybe the way to prevent that is if i'm watching a live stream maybe i should watch an uploaded non-live video then stop that but i just don't think about it that's what

i've been learning slowly learning to do um and then from a practical standpoint uh i suspect cannot confirm although wes you will be able to but I cannot confirm I think graphing OS is using more battery than stock because I have chosen and you could do it differently but I have chosen to keep play services in a cage and I keep it sandboxed and as a result the play services are not running in the background. And so therefore I don't get like that consolidation of notifications. Right. And so what, and the apps on Android detect this and they launch their own background processes to remain a connection open to their notification server.

And so I got a report because Android monitors these things now. And I got a report saying, Hey, just so you know, element telegram, Telegram, Tailscale, Home Assistant, they're taking a lot of battery power because they're always running. And they're running in the background for notifications

because I'm not using the Play API, which normally would aggregate all of that. And it would run, and it would check for updates, and then it would notify the apps locally. Instead, these apps are doing that job for themselves. I'm fine with that. And, Wes, I think you'll notice this too. It's still a tremendous upgrade from the Pixel 3 in terms of battery life. Okay, great.

And it's not as good as the iPhone. So it's like I can't really quantify it other than saying it lasts all day, so good enough. But that is something I think people should be aware of. If you switch to Graphene OS, you're going to probably maybe experience depending on how you configure it maybe not as great of battery life as you would with stock which is funny guys because a couple of years ago the biggest hack to save battery life on an android phone was to not install the google apps and then you know that's how you got the battery life but it's kind of flip-flopped a little bit because i mean i suppose they have put in a lot of work there yeah it's the damn notifications

and the background stuff and location stuff and then i also ended up with a magsafe compatible case so for those of you that are switching from an iphone and you have magsafe accessories there are cases out there there's basically one vendor right now that makes cases for the more recent pixel devices and now i can just pop this on all the magnets i have all over the place and it also there. There's basically one vendor right now that makes cases for the more recent Pixel devices. And now I can just pop this on all the magnets I have all over the place. And it also wirelessly charges. And the nice thing about that was, is that I'm able to reuse the iPhone accessory infrastructure that I already have. And that's a cost savings for me. And, you know, I don't have to worry about, because on the iPhone, I never charge over lightning. I charge over MagSafe.

And now everywhere I had MagSfe for my iphone i now have it for my pixel device that is surprisingly seamless nice it is it is really nice it has been it has been really fantastic and then last but not least and this is going to be probably one of the hardest things over the next year really what i've done just to make this clear to you guys is to be fully transparent i've committed to sticking with this until the end of January. And if I get to the end of January and I'm just hating it, I'm going to give myself the option to bail and then probably reformulate a plan on iOS. But if I get to the end of January and it's still going all right, then I'm going to try to make it a year. And so if I'm going to go for a full year, I'm going to have to replace iMessage. I'm going to have to replace FaceTime. My family uses that heavily. Yeah.

And that's going to be tricky. But I'm actually having a really good experience with Fluffy Chat. And Fluffy Chat is a matrix client that looks like Telegram. Very clean, very simple, and it has voice and video call support. And so I'm going to experiment with using FluffyChat because I think Telegram is going in the wrong direction overall. And it's something that, and FluffyChat being on top of Matrix means we can use existing infrastructure, existing encryption. So I'm excited about that. I think Fluffy Chat's a really good app. I don't think we talk about it enough. We really focus on Element as a Matrix client. But just like, you know, Element,

I mean, not to make this direct comparison, but Element's kind of like the Chrome of the space. And I feel like Fluffy Chat's kind of like the Firefox of the Matrix space. And so I've got Fluffy Chat loaded on my phone and I've got fluffy chat loaded on my wife's phone and we just fluff each other, you know, it's great.

And it's, it's got a really solid little UI. It's got solid features. And I'm happy to say, because it's all the matrix ecosystem, I was able to verify that I can do video and voice calls from fluffy chat to element users and vice versa. So the nice thing about that, too, is then when I'm at my desk,

I could be using Element and I can still communicate with all the same folks. So FluffyChat, I've got to give that a good plug. Have you tried it with any of your kids yet? I'm curious to see what they think of the experience. Yeah, so I did. And all of them were more impressed than they expected. They were like, oh yeah, okay.

All right, great. And I like that they know how to be charitable to dad's weird things that he makes them try. You know, I know. You know what it was that got them? Two things. The pixels under the glass fingerprint reader. They think that's so cool.

And the fact that it has swipes like the iPhone now now and you can swipe between apps and stuff like the iphone they thought that was that was pretty cool my kids know me dude this is what my kids they said but don't get me an android phone for christmas dad i still want an iphone oh my gosh did any of them ask you for your fancy new iPhone? You were kind of counting on that one. No, I told them that dad's iPhone is not yet up for kid claiming. End of January, right? Yeah.

But don't get us one, dad. We want an iPhone. Okay. It's iMessage. Now Dylan's going to be sending you links about flaws in Android. Or flaws in iOS, really, so you don't use the iPhone. Okay. It's iMessage. Now Dylan's going to be sending you links about flaws in Android. Or flaws in iOS, really, so you don't use the iPhone. True Grits echoed a question that I think several people in our

audience had after last week's episode. He sent 5,903 sats, he says. Does anyone know if it's possible to unlock the bootloader on Verizon's version of the Pixel 6? I've been unable to find much info on this. And I know that the Verizon versions are harder to unlock and unfortunately true gets that does seem to be the case based on

my research if you've bought a pixel 6 from verizon that's locked to verizon that does not seem possible to unlock in any reasonable way i know of at this time just based on a couple hours of research but swappa is a thing you know ebay is a thing you could probably buy one for a decent price on long yeah that has been my personal experience with the well our dear drew gave me a pixel five maybe about a year ago and uh i was kind of disappointed to find out it was a lock to verizon as well and i worked super hard to try to get that unlocked somehow. Did a ton of research, similar to you, Chris, and came up pretty blank. And all the projects basically said, oh, yeah, this will run great on Pixels.

And then there's this little fine print that says, except the ones that are locked to Verizon. I think it's one of the strengths and weaknesses of graphene is that it's pixel specific. You know, that's a strength and a weakness. It's not something you can recommend to rando family members who happen to have Android devices. In some ways, I suppose it's like the earlier days of Linux, right? You had to like really know your hardware and buy the right thing if you wanted to use it. And I think that's why I'm a little more amenable to the idea is because that's how I kind of treat Linux already. It's like, yeah, I got to get the right hardware to make this work right.

Yep. Yep. is because that's how I kind of treat Linux already. It's like, yeah, I got to get the right hardware to make this work right. Yep, yep. Our buddy Elray boosted in with a row of ducks and said, my biggest concern with NextCloud, because I'm using NextCloud as my cloud for this phone, is the backup strategy.

For Google and Apple, they have a reasonably good background and not losing data for many reasons, I'm sure. But with NextCloud, there's two options I can think of, and neither one of them are ideal. Number one, you can use the object storage backend and the integrated server-side encryption, which prevents the cloud host from seeing your data. But then if anything messes up with that encryption, you'll lose everything. And then option number two, maybe

traditional backup with local storage. Yeah, so I've been also kind of iterating the NextCloud setup. And my thoughts there is Duplicati is installed on the NextCloud server. And I will backup NextCloud to storage, which is a S3 compatible object storage. And I'm going to back it up to Linode. So I will have it in two offsite object storage locations. That's the only way I'm going to back it up to Linode. So I will have it in two off-site object storage locations. That's the only way I'm comfortable with it. I have to be honest with you, Alray, because, you know, I'm storing this data in an RV that goes down the road.

Anything could happen, right? Yes. It's like disk failure is the best case scenario for data loss. I mean, we've heard about what happens with water in that rig. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes I'm driving in areas where I'm just asking for it. California and Denver being a couple of them. So I

completely am concerned about this. And that's been my solution. And then because I'm on Starlink, I'm also making sure that I batch that stuff in the evenings. And that has been something I'm watching closely. I had some fun this week because I want, I want, I wanted to try a couple of apps that integrate with next cloud.

Like one, this is right up my alley. Is it just a really dumb? Well, I don't mean to make it. It's very simple, very simple app. It's just save my current location to next cloud in like a standard format

that GPS is used. And you just go in there and say, where I'm at right now, save this area to a favorites list in NextCloud, right? Okay. Or I want to do like a phone tracker so I could replace Find My. Well, all these kinds of things require a valid SSL certificate. It's 2022, Chris. I know.

But my box only lives on Tailscale. So I couldn't easily get an SSL certificate. But I discovered that, well, actually, Wes, you discovered that Tailscale has essentially like a proxy service for this. Yeah. And they will generate

resolving DNS in your tailnet and they will proxy the request to validate that SSL certificate. Yeah. And then you just ask, you just ask the Tailscale, David, hey, can I get that, that cert please? And pop, there it is. And I guess reading their docs to make it fully work, you have to turn on some DNS settings.

And I turned those DNS settings on. It was so cool. All my, all my machines on the Tailscale networks just immediately started doing name resolution. Because I've been doing everything by IP, and everything just started doing name resolution. That was super, super handy. And I really liked that. However, on my Graphene OS Pixel 7 device, for whatever reason, the moment I turned on Magic DNS on Tailscale,, my Pixel 7 graphing device just stopped resolving any DNS names. Oh, no.

I could ping by IP, but I could not ping by machine name. And I couldn't load anything. No services worked. Nothing worked. I don't have the option because there is by default in graphing. It routes everything through the VPN. I have that turned off. because there is by default in graphing,

it routes everything through the VPN. I have that turned off. I think what happens when you use magic DNS, you turn some of this DNS stuff on, is I think something changes in your DNS, default DNS server settings. And I don't think it works on graphing OS. I didn't troubleshoot it. I just went into tail scale and turned it off

and just fixed the issue. Cause I'm happy using the IPs, but I didn't, I never ended up getting an SSL cert working for my next cloud, but I am still trying to figure that out. Maybe when you get back, Wes, I'll have you sitting here. Wes, help! We'll figure it out.

Yeah, totally. But, you know, it's just those little pains. I do like to Elray's point, the pluses and minuses here, but I think it's like a net good for society, maybe. It's a good reminder that not only do you have storage, but you have backup responsibilities when you take on these self-hosting responsibilities. And it kind of puts in a different perspective, the sort of just how much data we generate and our expectations around what happens to that data. Wow, Wes, that's a super interesting point. So it's essentially

making us more aware of the data we generate and the services we use by having to be responsible for protecting and backing that data up. We're so used to, especially if you use a bunch of cloud services that like, well, here's the deal, right? I'm just going to throw data at you and that's your whole thing. But yeah, it turns out I have a lot of data and I don't know that I care about all of it, but some of it I really care about. Yeah. It's been interesting to think about that. And I think another good point is just backing it up isn't quite good enough because if you are being careful enough to bring all this data in house, but then you're just putting a giant dump of it on AWS or something that kind of goes against everything you were

doing in the first place. So you have to think about, like I already mentioned, some encryption and how that works and And is it transparent for you? And hopefully it's super reliable as well because, I don't know, clear data on someone else's machine after you've gone through all those steps seems like you're kind of doing it for nothing. Yeah. Is it nothing though? I mean, I agree. It's not 100%. And I think it depends on what you're worried about. I think there's a big difference between Google having your data

in a parsed format that it wants in its databases, and yes, Amazon could totally go read, or Linode could go read all of your files, but will they? Maybe. But they're not in the business directly for that product of mining it for data about you. It could still be accessed by authorities or subpoena or all kinds of things. And there's risks.

But they don't necessarily have a business monetization motivation. Now, I'm just saying that might be a middle ground some people are okay with, but I think Brett's totally right that that may not get you where you want to be if you're trying to get away from all of these companies that are very hard to escape. If you're trying to get away from all of these companies that are very hard to escape. I think the question for me always becomes, what can they do with the data if they wanted to? You know, they're advertising the fact that they have the data in their expected behaviors. But like Chris mentioned earlier, it seems like they hold onto this stuff for a super long time. If you don't recommend it, they do something other than that.

So yeah, by the default they do. Right. And so I think what scares me at least, or it gets me paused and thinking is what are they doing that we have no idea about? And I don't think you can really answer that question. And I think that's what makes me at least personally lean on the side of being maybe more cautious than the data suggests that I should be. You don't want to sound paranoid, but at the same time, you recognize it's entirely possible when you look at chat GPT and you look at stable diffusion, you could, you start to think like they could synthesize a lot about you just from that

existing data set that they could build models around. When you start to think about they could synthesize a lot about you just from that existing data set that they could build models around when you start to think about it in that context you could go to some pretty extreme places and it just seems like maybe none of that's happening and maybe all of that is happening so why not just let's just take your cards off the table you know just let's just not play that game i also feel like we have the tools now you know encryption especially you know using our clone or something like that to just automatically encrypt what you're putting up on some of these right cloud providers it's in a really great place and super reliable so it's like well why not i encrypt the stuff if you're sending it there it's almost as easy as not doing it these days and and duplicati to plug it again it again, is great at doing that.

It will do the encryption locally before it sends it off. In fact, I trust it enough that for my home assistant backups, I actually store those on Google Drive. There's an integration that makes it really easy. And I'm comfortable doing that because I trust in AES-256 encryption. In math, I believe. So I'm fine with that. But you do have to think of those things. And also, Sam Squanch came in with 16,180 sats to point out that you don't need to switch to Graphene OS to do this. And I don't want that message to get lost. And I think another way to put this is sometimes perfect can be the enemy

of good enough. And if you can just reduce the signal, that is something worth considering. And Sam Squanch writes, I discovered a while back that my iPhone can sync calendar, contacts, and more to fast mail natively using the DAV protocol. Yeah. And there's profiles for Next Cloud to do that as well. But we got a couple of notes from folks that said, I've kind of done what you've done, Chris, but instead of going all in with NextCloud and syncing all that stuff in my photos, I'm using ProtonMail and ProtonDrive and ProtonCalendar,

or I'm using FastMail. Oh, yeah. So there's a lot of ways you can come at this without having to go full self-hosting, full dependency and all that stuff. Still spreading things around and not have all your eggs in one cloud company basket. I think it's good to think of.

Hydrogrum came in with 12,666 ads and just said, I'm sending some loving for Graphene OS from my Pixel 4a, which you can pick up for, I think, around 100 bucks right now on Swappa. Just, like, think about that. A $99 decent smartphone that you can put Graphene OS on.

They're right. I've been using it with Graphene OS and with my Pine Time as well. I'm never going back to Google now that I've experienced how easy life can be without them. That's so well put. Linode.com slash unplugged. That's where you go to get $100 in 60-day credit on a new account. And it's a great way to support the show while you're checking out the Linux Geeks Cloud. I mean it.

This is a company built by Linux Geeks, and you can feel it. I'm not implying it has some sort of weird design where there's tuxes flying out of the screen at you. And when I say feel it, I don't mean you're physically feeling it. I mean, like in your heart, you're going to feel it because you can tell by using the UI. There's little things in there, little touches that Linux geeks think about. And they've got 11 data centers worldwide for you to choose from. I generally tend to think about, okay, where is the listener going to be or the intended user of this service? Then I place a server in there.

But something I don't talk a lot about is they have this thing called nanodes. And these nanodes, you can do a surprising amount. Like if you want something for a portfolio or something to do a VPN, you should check out their nanodes. In general, Linode's pricing is 30 to 50% less than the hyperscalers out there that are kind of awful companies that just want to lock you into their duopoly structure. Or triopoly, I suppose. Either way, it feels like Linode is a tried and true business that had to build itself up on the merits of its product. And when you go to linode.com slash unplugged, you get $100. You can try it.

And you can see if what I'm saying is true or not for yourself. And you'll see that Linode has screaming fast hardware if that's what you want if you're a performance hound it's incredible there i just wouldn't put our audience facing stuff on anything other than linode because they've got the performance they've got the reliability both from an actual like system reliability standpoint like you never hear us talking about outages right and then also from like a solid company standpoint from a real solid like you can hear us talking about outages right and then also from like a solid company standpoint from a real solid like you can rely on this for a decade kind of company standpoint and linode just keeps getting better with more and more services like i said more data centers

coming online easy great documentation that you can read clear just really appreciate all that kind of stuff and it's always a growing library. So for the best customer support, super fast rigs and networking, and a Linux culture that runs deep, well, go see why we choose Linode. There's a lot of reasons, but that $100, that'll really let you see it for yourself. So go put it over the top, support the show, and grab that $100 in credit. Go to linode.com slash unplugged. That's linode.com slash unplugged. It's here. It's time to talk about the tuxes. I can't believe it's taken me this long,

but gentlemen, right now, I have not verified it before the show, but I believe if you go to tuxes.party, the 2022 survey will reveal itself. And it is time for us to vote on the best text editor of the year, the best desktop distro, the best server distro, the best desktop environment, and a few other new surprises we've thrown in there. Tuxes.party. Please go there and vote because the Tuxes are coming up soon and your participation is a big part of this. We will review the top three results from

each category in a future episode of Linux Unplugged. And it's just a heck of a lot of fun. I was listening to last year's episode, and it just made me really excited. We have a couple of notable things. Fedora is now in the Hall of Fame for desktop distros. It's about time. Yeah. And Gnome Shell last year entered the Hall of Fame as well.

That means the categories are a little more open now, so your votes are really going to matter this year, and we want to get some good representation in there. There's a couple of free forms. We may also still tweak the submission form based on feedback, so keep an eye on this. We have sent this to our Tuxes governors. The Tuxes governor board did review this last week with some modifications recommended.

So keep an eye out. Go to Tuxes.party and then check it again in like two weeks. Just do it again. Don't vote twice. Don't be like those lizards last year. But we'd love to have you participate. So Tuxes.party is where you go. That's what's so exciting about,

well, there's a lot to be excited about with the tuxes. But the great taste our audience has, you know, and like the projects that make it there, something that we've never heard of but should have heard of, and things we've forgotten about throughout the year, I'm excited. It's kind of like a year review, but in a style that's a lot of fun. Takes a bit more effort, but with those votes, we can really kind of get there. I have a special announcement to make. All right, we we got to stop. Stop. Stop the music. Stop. Stop. Stop. Let's take a moment here. Grab your mouth organ.

And let's say pour one out for Patreon. Gentlemen, pour one out for Patreon. Let's go. Patreon, you have served us well. We've appreciated you, Patreon. You've done a good job. Well, Patreon, to be honest, you haven't done a great job. You were there for a time, a long time. We have had some issues with our member feeds and integrating with our hosting provider and getting everything working that has been going on now, I want to say for six months, and I basically, I set a deadline

by December. If it's not figured out, we're going to leave the Patreon platform. This is no disparaging remarks on the creators who use Patreon. It's so nice to have a platform that manages this stuff. However, we have our own. And then you combine that with the boost. I just think it's time to focus. So what I want to do is I want to make an offer to our patrons. If you're supporting the network over at patreon.com slash Jupiter Signal today, I would like to encourage you to move over to jupiter.party and sign up over there. And if you use the promo code 2022, it'll take $2 a month off the membership indefinitely. As long as you maintain the membership. So it's the promo code 2022. It's available to anybody. But I created it to thank our patrons. If you transition, you can use that promo code and save a couple bucks off.

And when you sign up at jupiter.party, you get access to all the show's special features. sign up at jupiter.party you get access to all the show's special features all of like the the ad free feeds self-hosted has a post show coder radio has the codedly this show has a whole other show it's a lot and linux action news the only way to get linux action news ad free is at jupiter party subscription i've also enabled upgrades so if you're a core contributor and you're ready to upgrade this is a great deal i don't generally do these deals but we're going to spin down patreon and um i don't know man it's just it's really disappointing because i i would love everything to just kind of get along and the idea of like you know open apis and everything just communicates and you can use whatever service you want we've been wanting to make this work, right?

We wanted to give the patrons access to this stuff. It's just like, hasn't been working. It is a frustrating thing, I have to say. I mean... I've lowered my expectations and I've decided, okay, we've had fantastic uptake on the boost. Our Jupiter party memberships are doing really great. We're, and we're, here's the other thing, you know, which you and I haven't even really technically solved yet is we're talking about the features we're adding to the RSS feeds for our members.

Like how we would even get some of that stuff to work on in Patreon is not even clear to me, you know, thinking about it. get some of that stuff to work on in Patreon is not even clear to me, you know, thinking about it. So we, from a development standpoint, we need to really be able to just focus a little bit and narrow it down on what we're trying to solve for. And having Patreon, the membership programs, and the boost, it's just all, it's a, it's a too broad of a range. And the Patreon one's the one we have no control over. It's not the highlight. And yeah, we don't have any control. So we got to focus on what we can, what we think we can do well. So promo code 2022, if you'd like to become a member, it'll take two bucks off every single

month for the life of the membership. You can also upgrade. I've enabled upgrades if you'd like to upgrade from the core contributor and all around. I just want to take a moment and say thank you everybody who is a member as we, as we move into 2023, it is really is really really it's really invaluable to have that support to have you right there as we're planning for next year so thank you so much everybody who supports us at either as a core contributor at unpluggedcore.com or as a jupiter party member for all the shows at jupiter.party. Now, gentlemen, speaking of absolutely fantastic support.

Now, Wes, you ruled last week on the pronunciation of this name, and I believe we came down on Dahaja or Daja? Daja. Daja. Well, when you say it like that, how can you be wrong, right? Get ready for this, boys.

Daja boosts in with 474,747 sats. Hey, rich47 sats. Daja, you are our lobster. He says, number one, let's keep LUP on the top charts. Number two, everyone knows it should be pronounced with a French J. That's J-I-V-E. Right? Did I get that right? J-I-V-E.

J-I-V-E. Just kidding. I want to put these uh stats behind the pronunciation of jif with a hard gif with a hard g right yes all right there we go and then point number three westpain 2024 yeah this is something we should get rolling you know maybe we start west as the governor takes on ensley, you know? Wes, I think you should put out your platform first, and then we can see what's in there. Savings through free software adoption in government.

Yeah, absolutely. That's part of your platform. It's also partly a jobs program to employ some developers to write the free software. There you go. Yeah. Those developers are going to need a job. There'll be jobs in your state. Yes, you.

I mean you. Yeah. Wow, that's so great. So, Daja, you did it. And when this boost came in, first of all, if I missed anybody else's boost, I'm sorry. I think you guys have been so amazing that I have some inbound liquidity issues I need to resolve. But I did catch this one. And I was looking, and this made us number two on the Fountain FM charts. The only reason we weren't number one is because the podcasting to Dodo show

got a 2 million sat boost. Okay. Well, that's nuts, but well, yes, no, totally.

Totally. I am happy to be number two to that. And, uh, we are that. And then we got some continued great support throughout the week, especially from John A coming up. So we may name,

we maintain the number two and number three spot for the entire week on the fountain charts. So thank you very, very much. And so now that we have this amount of stats behind the pronunciation, it is in fact, GIF on the pod. So there we go.

Now, John A comes in. He actually sent in 10 different booths this week. So in total, and you know know now that john's been here and we've met john i actually i can picture him sending these and i love it you know it's amazing they were already great and it's even better now yes now you can put a face to these boosts it's thank you it's so great it really put a smile on my face so with a total of 107 500 sats keep the change you filthy animal john a is our number two baller uh he says uh debian has a soft e it was named after the combo

of the founder's wife named deb his name ian so it is pronounced to heavy in to heavy in heavy in he says and then he sent in a series of power boosts, simply just saying Dehebian several times. Dehebian, which is good because I think John, after meeting me, realizes that repetition is what makes it sink in. I think he knows that now. And then he followed up with a final boost saying, FYI, NextCloud Talk is actually pretty good. You know, John, I was thinking about that. I was thinking about that. I was going to go NextCloud Talk to replace FaceTime until I realized, ultimately, I'm going to want to be able to do it with people outside my NextCloud world. And that's where I felt like maybe Matrix would be maybe a better focus for me. So I went Fluffy Chat. But you're right. NextCloud Talk does look really good. And if you're living, God, it's so easy to just go full next cloud it's crazy i could so easily go full next cloud like everything in next cloud you must you must this is must be your life brand because now that i'm a next cloud user i realize there's

literally a next cloud solution for everything i might want to do i think in many ways you know you've given next cloud a hard time for trying to integrate too many things. Too much. Yeah, and that may still be true. But it is true to say as well that a ton of the stuff they've put in are really well thought out. And Nextcloud Talk, when it first came out, was super rough and I would argue unusable. But I used it almost every day for a year and a half recently. And it had a few little things things but that's true of each platform and it worked great and on a little like five dollar line out i think it was that i was running that thing on so uh i i will have to agree with john a it's been pretty great all right yeah

if you're just looking at communicating with a few like, like a team, we could, in theory, be using this on files, all of us, on the horse, on our Worknext cloud. That's what we call our Worknext cloud. Our next baller this week is Circus Freak coming in with 95,000 sats. I hoard that which your kind covet. Forget clouds on Earth. How about a Tesla Starling phone? Back up your photos to mars now that's cold storage right and off-site that's definitely that's geographically diverse

i mean if he could you know offer a uh okay let me just take you in the seriously for a second guys if there was like object storage on mars that you could get at for a reasonable price, and maybe it took a couple of days for the data to get there, but it eventually got there. Yeah, latency is not great, but whatever. Yeah, yeah. But you don't care, right? It's cold storage. I mean, would you not be kind of interested in that,

assuming you could restore from it in some sort of reasonable time? I guess you better set expectations to low, but you know. It seems fun to try. I'm not sure. I don't know if I think my data is important enough. Is it worthy of Mars? That's a good point. I think it brings a whole new spin on interplanetary file system. Oh, right. Yeah. There's what IPFS should be used for. Here's the weird thing, right, though. Say Earth were to get annihilated, you know, no big deal, but Earth gets wiped out.

And then aliens come to investigate what happened a thousand years later. And they find hard drives on Mars. It'd be your data they would use to kind of like put together what that third rock from the sun was all about. Well, we should just back up the live streams there then. We'll be set. Right, of course. Okay, Taco Strange comes in with 80 000 sats 80 057 to be precise he says first time boosting and first time using the lightning network that's awesome just wanted to add more fuel to the pronunciation fire with a

boost of sats uh so how do you guys pronounce regex? It's a hard G for me. I like the idea it's pronounced regex. Re-ge- no? Regex. Regez? Regez? Oh, how about regez? That's pretty good. I think I've only ever heard it pronounced the one way, regex.

Regex. Yeah. I'd be curious to hear if there's some other wild way to say it. Right. Send us, maybe send us some audio clips, huh? Yeah. Oh, that would, that would really make this a perfect boost is if there's somehow we could have a little audio with it.

I'd love to hear how they pronounce it. That'd be great. All right. Our last baller boost comes in from Penguin Stargazer. 74,205 sats. Keep the change, you filthy animal. Hello, everyone. I just started following you at the end of August, and I just wanted to contribute a little. I'm really enjoying listening to your shows on my commute to work and sometimes on my lunch break.

It's great to be able to keep up with the latest news, and I often find new things to try out. Thanks for the great shows. And by the way, since you already have an Enterprise boost, how about we make 74,205 sats the Defiant boost for those Deep Space Nine fans? Tough little ship. Little. I love it.

74,205, the Defiant boost. that is a tough little ship that's great ship great you know a little overpowered a little overpowered but once you dial her in runs hot yeah okay fine penguin stargazer thank you for boosting in as a brand new listener we've got some brand new listeners out there if you've been uh catching the show because it's up on the fountain charts, send us a boost in and tell us about your first episode that you caught. Be curious to hear all about it. And thank you everybody who boosted in. If you'd like to send a boost into the show,

new podcast apps.com is where you get the app. If you want to get some cheap sats, I like the strike app and the cash app. If you're in the U S and blue wallet outside the U S. All right, gentlemen. So I got my old hard drive spun up this week. And I decided to load Debian 11 on there just to see if I could make it an everyday driver because Brent has had the strugs with the different machines and the distros and the

situations recently. And I have felt, you know, as a buddy, I have felt the passion around Linux and desktop Linux drain as he has hit issue after issue. In fact, it was serious enough that we're like, you know, what we got to do is we got to help our buddy out and so wes and i helped him get the dev one because we felt like you know the issue is the hardware he's on is getting old it's dying and so he's fighting that so we thought let's solve it with new hardware we threw new hardware in there but some of the issues persisted and they're legitimate issues that we don't necessarily have answers for so I thought maybe we could find something that Brent could install on his work machine, his daily driver, that he could use that would remain stable, let him try stuff out for the show, let him do the show, and just get things done on Linux for a while and not

fight with all of these different issues. And as we've had this dialogue with the audience, we've had this dialogue with Brent, we've been hearing a lot of different suggestions come into the show. And there's a couple of really strong signals, two that really stand out. One, Debian 11. Two, OpenSUSE. So I thought I'd take on the Debian 11 side. So Wes and I have been talking about this this week. He and I have been looking at Debian 11. And Brent's been collecting the advice from the audience to look at SUSE and specifically OpenSUSE. And so let's break it into two parts. Part one, I think, is the case for Debian 11.

Part two, I think, should be the case for OpenSUSE. So we'll do both today. And we'll just kind of look at it from that angle. And I want to start with my pitch to you, Brent. This is like, you know, you've come over and I'm going to try to convince you, you know, install Debian tonight. And here's what I would tell you. What I found it to be was a simpler than expected Linux experience. It is really a few layers of the onion lower than Ubuntu, right? And I think if you come at it from a frequent Ubuntu user perspective and you look at Debian, what you see is something just a little simpler, a little more plain. And I don't mean

that disparagingly. I just mean it's not like been themed up. It's not had a necessarily like this specific app curation from the perspective of what type of user might use this desktop. All of that work is on you. Right. But at the same time, like a clean arch installation or a clean NixOS installation, or Fedora,

it's what, it's what do you want to make of it? What do you want to build up to? I used it for about a week. You know, we talked about this last week. I think I had like one set of updates that came in for me, you know? Like once I legitimately had way more flat pack updates than I did updates. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, totally. And so what I did, and I think this would work pretty well for you, Brent, is I did a Debian 11 Plasma base. So it's like, what was it, Wes? Like Plasma 520, I think? I believe so, yeah, 520. So it's like a couple of point releases behind, but kind of back in the territory where I actually think you had a pretty good experience.

It's a nice Plasma. Yeah, it really is. And then I just flat-packed everything. You gave me the idea to try Firefox because it had the codecs in there and everything like that. So I just flat packed everything. Telegram, Slack, Element, Firefox, Discord, Steam, my YouTube downloader, like literally everything. Everything, right? Everything.

So the Debian installer gave me the Plasma desktop. And then I did everything else from Flatpaks. Would you have Flatpacked the Plasma desktop if you could? Yeah, if I could get 526, yeah. But you know what? It really works because you've got completely fresh applications. It really works because you've got completely fresh applications. You've got the Debian base that is, I think, quintessentially one of the strongest bases out there.

I mean, that's why Ubuntu built on it, right? It's got really specific packaging requirements. It's got a great repository with a ton of software in there. There's so many guides, so many tutorials on there. It's ideal for a server. So if you ever wanted to move to a server and expand there, it's one distribution that works great in both places. There is a way to go rolling. You could go with testing if you wanted to, and you can dip into the closed source stuff, like I use the closed source firmware and stuff like that, as needed. So it's not like you're completely left on a, you know, GPL freedom island. sort of governance and built and community and yeah, it's targeted towards free and open source first,

but at least recently seems to be also making it a little bit easier and possible to go past that when you need to. Okay. But I have definitely have some questions. Firstly, I was, I was really surprised when this got mentioned by several listeners and that you both jumped on that bandwagon and said, actually, this, this might be a thing for you. I hadn't even considered Debian as even a contender. And so I'm glad to see you switching my ideas there. But it sounds like, Chris, you've set it up sort of like a, hmm, almost like a KDE Neon in that it has a stable base and yet a very current application stack. And that was one thing I was

always hesitant about with Debian was like, it's really nice to have the modern features and some of these applications that are sort of modernizing pretty quickly and adding new features all the time. So you've got me kind of interested there. Let me see if I can put it over the top. I have a couple of links in the show notes. Wes found these and I think these are worth reading. One is from The Register. And the way they pitch Debian in this article, I think it's from 2021. It says, Debian is like a rock in a swirl in a world of by the very nature of that type of software development things are are just constantly adapting changing moving things are being reconsidered re-evaluated thrown out and rebuilt debian sits back and watches the chaos and then every few years picks from that and releases like this island of stability and if you think about it from i just want this laptop to turn on and work standpoint there's something

that's extremely appealing about that it's it's a lot like an lts a lot like a centos but there's no there's no strategy tax here there's no company that's dragging this around this is truly a work of the people, which I think is also kind of just philosophically appealing to a guy like yourself. I do have to step in to remind all of us that it's, I believe, should we switch? Is it still Debian? Oh, you're right. You're right. Didn't we get a baller boost? Did the baller boost reset it, right? Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. It's still Debian, I believe. I believe it's still Debian. You're right. All right. We'll fix that going forward. Thank you, Wes nope, nope, nope. It's still Debian, I believe. I believe it's still Debian. You're right.

All right. We'll fix that going forward. Thank you, Wes. Just a name check. That's what we got to get in the habit. We want to be right, so thank you. Yeah, we got to be accurate. We don't want to embarrass ourselves.

So how did it work on the dev1? Well, Debian did really well when I used the installer that has the proprietary firmware. If you use the installer that doesn't have the firmware, I tested that and it doesn't work as well. And it does have that issue where about one out of three times when I wake from sleep, the Wi-Fi doesn't work. Still has that issue. That's frustrating. But if you either just shut down and don't sleep or if you're okay with two out of three times the wi-fi works then it's not a big deal i did have some problems running games i think it was mostly 32-bit library issues i think some guides you could probably figure that out also in the show notes i will link to proton plus andCute, two different apps that give you a graphical front

end to create a Proton environment so you can run Windows applications using Proton and you can run games. And I think that would probably solve some of my problems as well because those things will kind of discover the missing dependencies and help you resolve that. I just didn't get a chance to get into that because I did do a Steam Flatpak install. get a chance to get into that because I did do a Steam Flatpak install. You have that, you know, that latest kernel switching tool that you use on some of the studio machines. Do you think you would ever adopt that in a Debian stable lifestyle? I would. I would. I don't know if I would suggest that, you know, it feels like people that are looking for Debian stable and want, like another

one of these articles that I've linked in the show notes put it i want a system that i can install once every five years and not mess with and about once every five years i want to mess with it and i feel like if you go with a more current kernel you're opting out of that luxury that debian stable can provide you what about maybe just like a newer lts kernel yeah that's a i mean you could i think that's a good argument i bet you that's not too hard to do too yeah debian 11 with the current lts kernel yeah that's a i mean you could i think that's a good argument i bet you that's not too hard to do too yeah debian 11 with the current lts kernel would be a nicer because i did feel like things would be a little better with a more current kernel like if you're if you're using modern hardware or you really want a great gaming system i don't feel like debian 11 is a great suggestion i think there's probably stronger contenders if you want

more of a data input output photo manipulation video call workstation i think debian 11 is probably checking that box especially i mean honestly the nice thing about plasma even plasma 520 is it's in a really refined spot. And it works really well. So I am considering, it's my top, I have two contenders right now for Dylan's laptop. And Debian stable is on that list. I never would have expected

to hear you say that. What's the other contender again? NixOS, of course. It's NixOS. Yeah, of course. NixOS. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Just a bit of contrast.

Chris, you mentioned having like a really clean Plasma to start with that you kind of build up into your own. And I think it took you like two days or so to get there in a pretty happy place. I guess my question is, well, you've convinced me that Debian is worth looking at, but you haven't convinced me that actually it's better, let's say, on the dev one than something like NixOS or even Arch for that reason. I am kind of having a hard time saying it's the right distro for the dev one, at least with the 5.10 kernel. All right. So, I mean, you know, this is maybe where the audience has a point. I have to give them a point here. So Debian, obviously,

we've been getting a lot of recommendations for Debian. But I think the other one that we've gotten a sickening amount of recommendations for, surprise, surprise, OpenSUSE. And Nat in our Matrix chat made a pretty compelling argument for OpenSUSE over Debian. really not the focus of the project. Debian supports so many legacy and obscure platforms that getting timely security fixes is not really a priority. Something like OpenSUSE

is much more focused on being a good workstation. I personally like the SUSE family of distro release model better than that of Debian or Fedora family distros. Now he also suggested reasons to not consider testing. If you really want to run Debian as a desktop OS, please ignore people saying to run testing or SID. Embrace the stable and don't make a Franken-Debian. The Debian release cycle has its dangerous period right around when stable is getting ready for the new release. If you're on testing or SID, you need to consider yourself a tester for stable during that period. If something goes wrong, you're on your own to fix it. Compare that with Leap or Tumbleweed, and the system is always expected to be in a sane state. Now, Brent, you were using Tumbleweed in the past, and it seemed like it went well for a while,

and then you migrated and you've been on the journey that we're talking about here. I'm curious what happened. I am trying to remember. I think it was about 12 months ago, and Limiting Factor wrote in and said, I installed OpenSUSE at Tumbleweed when Brent did about 12 months ago, and it's been mostly fine. And that was my experience as well. I installed it on my, at the time, podcasting laptop. If you remember, I was doing this crazy thing where I had two laptops to do our show, which thanks to you both, I don't have to do that anymore. And it ran totally fine. And it was actually a fun experience. One

thing I really appreciated about it was the just built-in automatically there butterfs rollbacks that were just super well integrated i think that's one of the features that really shined for me and i've wanted it ever since to be honest what happened was you know i was running opens as a tumbleweed and this was more of an appliance that I was using. And so I may not have kept up with updates for many months. And then when I got sort of excited about doing those updates, I had, let's call it troubles or things go wrong that I wasn't willing to fix. And so I just kind of kept it like that for a bit, and it devolved from there. But I don't blame Tumbleweed.

I definitely blame my own system administration techniques there. I mean, I think anyone who's used a rolling-type distro has some sympathy for that case. Totally, yeah. I was just thinking, yep, been there, done that. Yeah, I remember Chris telling stories about having having i think it was a media station at a different house or something that was running uh arch at the time and it had been like two years that was a fun time i've got a uh i don't know guys it's like a 2011 macbook or something you guys might remember i've talked about it before on the show and uh we put arch on it a thousand

years ago and i take it as a personal challenge every now and then i wake that old mac up and i boot it up and see if i can get arch to update all the way to completion and it's just like something else that's what i that's what i'm doing for this evening you know i could play a game i guess could go for a walk just like a yearly challenge to yourself that sounds more fun though uh yeah yeah i mean that you know brent so i i i actually was also catching some of your thoughts on it recently and i thought god he really was enjoying this open seuss maybe he should actually really give this a go maybe i shouldn't recommend debbie and the issue i think with Seuss is you touched on it there. And if this was a different place at a different time in a different year, I wouldn't make this suggestion.

But I think if you ran into those same problems on a Debian box, Debian based system, you probably wouldn't have hit a brick wall just because of your exposure to apt over the years. And I think Seuss does offer a pretty compelling situation, especially when you combine it with Snapper and Butterfest or whatever. But you could build that on Debian. You could go Butterfest. You could install Time Machine or Time Shift or whatever it's called. You could do that stuff. And then you'd get one version of the os for for years and it would

just be the app tooling that you're familiar with and it's not that i i i don't want to i don't want to come in here and say like don't go learn don't try something new don't expand your horizons i don't want to be that person but it just feels like this isn't the season of life to be doing that now you need you need the daily driver you You need the commuter car, right? You need the Toyota, uh, of, of the computer world. You don't, you don't want a sports car or, or something that's going to break down all the time that can't get you to work, right? You want something that's going to be really reliable. Um, and I, I feel like while Debian will have its quirks, you'll identify all of those in the first two days. And then after that, you know, it's just business as usual. really prioritize the difference between sort of the stable, like you said, commuter car,

the thing I can just rely on a hundred percent of the time. And then the thing, you know, the other system or dual boot, perhaps that is just like the fun play toy that I get to experience new things, try new technologies, uh, push the envelope. And I think maybe that's been the problem for me lately. It's like, I just want to do it all. And I want it all in one place. And I just want it to work all the time. And that's just not how it goes. Well, and you guys can probably relate to this. And I bet a lot of people in our audience can relate to this. I have a bad habit of treating my computer like my toy.

You know, I was just talking about how I boot that MacBook up, right? And so I want it to be my tinker thing that when I'm not doing a work thing, I can just open up a terminal and start tinkering. And what I think I'm learning is because I have multiple machines, I need to like kind of come up with a different jobs for different machines. And so like one machine, like this case, maybe your dev one or whatever it is, is like this is the work machine that is never frustrating. And then I have this computer over here where I'm playing with stuff. maybe your dev one or whatever it is, is like, this is the work machine that is never frustrating. And then I have this computer over here where I'm playing with stuff. And when that breaks, I've got this computer I go to,

right. And that's the one that runs Debian. That's the one that runs Debian 11 is that go to computer. And I think this is applicable to mint folks and Ubuntu LTS folks as well. Like you could just go to the source and go to Debian 11. And then you got your toy machines. Cause a lot of us have multiple computers that you can run OpenSUSE on or NixOS or whatever. And if it doesn't work right that day, no big deal. Compelling.

Compelling. I think listeners have tried to convince me that OpenSUSE is also that thing. Super stable, especially if you're not running Tumbleweed and you're running Leap instead, then it just sort of lasts. Now, the downside there is I think the versions come out on a yearly basis, not the five years of support you mentioned with Debian. So that's a downside, I think, to OpenSUSE. Gosh, so how do we make this decision? Where do I go now? Because I feel like i'm ready and you're sort of convincing me that i need to make this commuter car sorry deaf one um that's just super reliable for me and i think

well experiences i've had up to now i just now's the time to move i mean i think you know as your friend i'm gonna say debbie and 11 but as somebody who wants a great show, I'd say put Seuss on there, see what happens. That sounds like this last year for us. I mean, there's a factor there, right? I don't know. The only reason I have pause is because I listened to the Tuxes episode,

like I said, and you were loving on Open Seuss. You were genuinely passionate about it. I remember my excitement being more so of each of you. And I remember thinking, oh, that was something that he really enjoyed. And we kind of moved away from it with NixOS, but I think you should go back.

I think you should try it. And then if, you know, you give it a week, you let us know, and then if it, you know, it doesn't work out, instead of going, oh, Linux is, this is it. Linux is over. I'm going to just run like Windows 11 for a while or something.

All you have to do is say, Chris was right. And try out Debian 11. Exactly. You got the escape hatch. You just pull the old Chris was right lever. Put on my Chris was right t-shirt. I think the other thing that really convinces me here to do what you're suggesting which is the crazy route of course is that listeners have really suggested that plasma

is an amazing experience on open susan not like a second rate citizen which we've been talking about for the last little bit and i want to experience that and see if they're right or not brent's uh brent's final try with plasma yeah i i it's funny because i really came into this thinking you you should do debbie and 11 but the more i kind of think about it i i think the thrill of open susa working out if it does work out would be really good for you i agree and so the last question becomes do we do leap or do we do tumbleweed again i i feel like because we're going crazy tumbleweed i mean okay tumbleweed may okay maybe we split the difference actually maybe we split the difference and we go tumbleweed right no no no i'm sorry leap we go leap see see but i can

argue the other way because the only thing that leap doesn't have that Debian does is that like quick point versions. And you know, I think, Chris, you know, I hate resetting up my laptops. True. And so that's what is attractive about Tumbleweed. I mean, it is of Arch as well. It's like just you set it up once and it lasts forever. So they say. Wes, what do you think?

I'm a little torn because I am I am really curious uh you know I've been I've been playing with Debian 11 too. Debian 11 excuse me. Yeah it's it's embarrassing when you get it wrong Wes it's embarrassing. It really is I can I know I'm better than this I honestly do think it could work nicely for Brent, but that excitement you're talking about, this might be a chance for the show to kind of give some love to the Seuss side of the Linux tree in a way that, I don't know that we've been able to before, but Brent's in a place to give that a real genuine go

in a way that I think might be good for all of us. That's true. Seuss has come to us on multiple occasions and wanted to be like, hey, I think we could be an item. They've reached out to us, and every time we're like, have you tried out NixOS? We haven't handled that well, and maybe you could be our olive branch to the Seuss community if this worked out.

You could be our Seuss ambassador. That feels like a lot of pressure all of a sudden. You could be the lizard speaker here, you know, with that silver tongue of yours and your brunch ways. Bitwarden.com slash Linux. bitwarden.com slash linux that's where you go to get started with a free trial for a team or free for an individual at bitwarden.com slash linux it's just the easiest way to store share and sync sensitive data usernames passwords passphrases two-factor authentication tokens on and on even addresses and credit card details. It's so nice to have a vault you can truly trust

because Bitwarden has solid encryption that's audited and trusted by an open source community. Millions of individuals, teams, and organizations use Bitwarden. And Bitwarden is open source, so it was the easy one for Wes and I to choose when we were looking for something that was better than just storing our passwords on our local machine. Or I honestly have seen people store passwords under their keyboard. That's really a thing. And since we've been Bitwarden users, it just keeps getting better and better.

Every single month, there's something new for me to talk about. And this month, it's really good to see that they focused on performance optimizations, both for the WebVault load times, but also just on mobile devices. Speaking of mobile, on iOS, the generating usernames and passwords is even just a little bit slicker. I've recently been exposed to how it works on Android, and I'm very thrilled with that. I've got it tied into my fingerprint, and I can just scan the screen, boom, my password gets imported. So I can use super long, complex passphrases. I use full passphrases, like a sentence, and I have no problem managing that with Bitwarden and generating them with Bitwarden.

So to see them also working on things like performance optimizations and just login workflow improvements. And also, it's nice to see the directory connector having support for Google workspaces and getting better and stronger there. Like that's just a lot of low level improvements that make Bitwarden even better to use on a day-to-day basis. And I do use it several times a day, and I recommend it for you. So if you have not tried Bitwarden yet, or anybody you know in your circle of influence that is doing passwords in a less secure, less safe way, have them try out Bitwarden. It's a great way to support the show while also improving their security. It's probably like the number one thing they could do.

Super low-h hanging fruit here, and it makes such a ginormous difference. Go try it out for yourself, maybe recommend it to somebody and support the show. Bitwarden.com slash Linux. Now, JMac, you're joining us on Mumble and you are at Ohio Linux Fest. I'm curious, what was that experience like? I know there was a lot of hype in our Matrix rooms trying to get things organized, but I want to hear it from someone who was there. Yeah, I first want to thank you guys for setting up the Columbus Club Matrix room. That was really helpful. We were able to gather up about 15 people from the audience, I think, attended. We have a little picture over there if you guys want to check it out of everybody who attended

We were at North Market, which was right behind the event and the hotel downtown and so over there there was just a bunch of food from vegan to ramen to pizza to barbecue It was amazing. Um, obviously I had to try the pizza and barbecue, but there was like next time I go, you have to try everything. And so the people who did attend, I don't have all of their their handles, but I can shout out Nev, The Beave, Retro Matt, Lostin, Scorched Muffin and Jonathan Bowman. These are a bunch of people I would love to have met. And so jealous of you there. So I do want to first off shout out to the president of the OLF organization, Beth Eicher.

She did a great job getting everybody together after the last couple of years of the festival situation in the U.S. and everything. And then also Vice president warner moore i just kind of ran into him first things first the the first day and he kind of explained how everything worked which was really cool i mean the chairman vance k i don't i can't pronounce his last name but he uh was the guy that you see between every one of the talks um who was presenting uh all the speakers um and then john mad dog hall was there, guys, obviously. He's great. Yes, he's always fun to talk to. He was running around with a Santa Claus hat all weekend.

Perfect. Yes, perfect. And then Amber Grainer gave the other keynote. So it was John Mad Dog Hall gave the last keynote, and then Amber Grainer gave the keynote on the first night. That's fantastic. Oh, man, now I really feel the FOMO. So everything's on YouTube.

They're going to bust it out. Everything's just still VODs right now, if you want to go check like 10-hour VODs on both days. But they're going to bust them out into separate videos over the next couple of months. I think they're going to release them on a weekly cycle, is what I heard. But Jonathan Bowman, actually, from the audience,

started off the conference with his talk on automating tasks with Python. I think that's a really good one. If you're going to watch any of the actual talks from the show, maybe start with his because they're all about Kubernetes and reverse proxies and how you can automate things with your IoT and everything. reverse proxies and like how you can automate things with your IOT and everything. So maybe check out his talk. But, but be sure to check out those keynote talks from Amber Greener and John Maddow call.

That sounds really great. J Mac. Thank you for the report. I do want to mention they, they raffled off 18 pies. Whoa. Two pie four hundreds and 16 pie Picos. Jeezez you just turn those around on ebay you pay for the whole trip yeah no kidding it was a great time guys uh you really you really um

gotta go next year it was a it was kind of a small crowd but um there's there's probably a double or triple um the number of uh audience engagement on the internet than what was actually there in person. So it's a great time. Definitely come out next year. I've got to. I've got to figure out a way to do it. As we wrap up and get towards the end of this year and I look back at the regrets I have,

which that's, of course, what I think about, right towards the top of the list is not making it to enough of these events. I them so much and as the longer i do this the more important those are to keep me motivated and passionate about this is meeting real people who are interesting and intelligent it it helps like euthanize me against stupid flyby comments on the internet. It gives me a defense against that. So, J-Mac, thank you for doing that. Thank you for going to that and giving us a little bit of a report.

And it's awesome that there was a bit of a meetup. I will definitely try to make it a priority. I don't think I've been to Ohio since 2014-ish. And also, always remember that at these events, there's free beer, there's free tacos, and the hallway track is just as valuable as anything that you see on the internet. He knows what you like. Guys, guys, one of us needs to become like a small aircraft pilot, and I kind of feel like it should be Brent. You know, like Wes and I can maybe help like finance it or something. I don't know how we'd do it. I'm strangely okay with this. Wouldn't it be great if we could just fly ourselves?

Maybe a couple of backpacks of gear and we just fly to these events. We need to loop in Listener Mike. Get him on the team. Yeah, Listener Mike. Listener Mike. Listener Mike. Let's talk. All right, Brett.

I know we got a whole bunch of suggestions. Now, Debian and OpenSUSE, I think those really clearly stood out, but we got a whole bunch of other suggestions. Do you want to do like a rapid fire of some of the other distro ideas that came in for you? Yeah, I think I'm going to do a rapid fire of pronunciations as well as picks because we got quite a few. And if you want to send some more in, you can go to LennoxUnplugged.com slash contact. Bo simply said, here's zero sats on pronouncing Graphene OS as Giraffine OS. Goes really well with Genome.

I kind of don't mind that one, actually. And Kato said, by the way i can't boost any sats right now but i'm voting for soft g like in geronimo in the word unplugged which wes you want to try this one unplugged something like that uh umplute no uh, I'm sorry. Come on. I'm trying Linux. Unplugged is my best take. Yeah. Double J's fair enough. You know what? You know what?

Somebody boosted and tell us, I, uh, I know it's gotta be triggering some people when we play around with pronunciations. Um, and, what I would like for the people that have been bothered by that,

just consider it a public service because you clearly don't have enough to be upset about. And we're giving you one more thing to focus your energy on. And that's probably something you need if you're getting upset about pronunciations. So you are welcome. Yeah. Carl mentioned it really well that I think will bring us into our quick picks. He suggested, I think this pronunciation debate, or is it pronunciation? I can never choose. Right. No. Yeah. Or pronunciation? think this pronunciation debate or is it pronunciation i can never choose right no yeah or pronunciation i think this pronunciation debate is hilarious and also painfully true if debian is pronounced debian why are they called deb packages and not deep packages i think he's

onto something there we've always called them deebs on the show right i'm pretty sure yeah i've always said deep yeah it's a dot deep file right isn't that what you guys say yeah is ubuntu pronounced u-buntu or u-buntu or uh-buntu who's to know uh-buntu i've always preferred shuttleworth os open zuza can also be open zuza or OpenSUSE or OpenSUSE. So I don't know who chooses. I've also heard SUSE. SUSE. Really?

Yeah. Oh, that is fascinating. And last but not least, SUDO. Is it SUDU? SUDO? Super user DO? Whatever you'd like. Or is it SUDU?

SUDO? I you'd like. Or is it S-U-D-O? S-U-D-O? I don't know. Yeah. I think we've just accidentally stumbled into what is a very obnoxious problem in our community. Well, Chris, and you've touched on this before. Often, most of us just ever read this or type it into a terminal. And we're not necessarily talking to other humans using our voice to describe these things so uh i don't know it's a problem that might not just go away

but you know what it means that if we're talking about this and it's more of a problem then maybe more of us are talking about these things and adoption is. More people are discussing it. So, hashtag good problem to have? Carl continued, I also understand Brent's searching for the best distro journey. I eventually got fed up with that exact thing. Went to OpenBSD for a while, a few years in fact, and then came back and landed on KISS Linux, which I suppose could also be Keep It Simple Stupid Linux. Good luck with your sole distro searching, Brent. Robin, I think, suggested something that we can all sort of take a pause and think about.

Been through the Dibbians, the Mangeros, the Archers, the Buntus, and the Elementaries. Settled on Void Linux. That was a surprise. The glibc version around the end of 2019. That's really interesting. We also got some recommendations from Paul Du for EndlessOS. Do you remember we tried EndlessOS not too long ago?

Oh wow, that feels like it was ages ago. But we sure did. I think it might have been in the summer. So the whole immutable summer I think was part of that. I remember having a hard time you guys had a much better time so uh we should maybe not discount endless squirrely dave suggested endeavor which i feel like maybe we haven't given enough attention so i've got that on my list

of things to keep in mind deckbot suggested free bsd of course. Make Brent run FreeBSD for a week. And I'm serious, because any Linux distro will feel awesome after living in FreeBSD for a few weeks. Ouch. Ouch. You know, we have something to figure out right now, but I would be curious on your take on FreeBSD sometime down the road. Future show. Dolo suggested Arch plus i3, just suggesting once you've done i3, you just can't go back to anything else. And TeamLinux01 suggested Nebora project, which is, as far as I understand, Fedora Linux with user-friendly fixes. So there's something to consider there. Hey, Brent, you're a user.

You love fixes. That's true. And Sean suggested KDE spins of Manjaro. So that's just a small note. We got, literally, I kept getting DMs for the last two weeks of really great suggestions, but not only suggestions, descriptions of why. And I feel like it's just really reminded me that this is all a personal choice and everybody has a different use case. So thank you, everyone, who suggested different experiments for me. Yeah, there is something to it. When we talk about something on this show, like I talk about Graphene OS, I'll hear from everybody who's using Calix and loves it, right?

Or Lineage. And that is a trick because you got to balance that are listening is listen for the things that resonate with you and what we mentioned, which distros and environments and tooling works best for that. And maybe start from there because I have absolutely discovered that just absolute amount of choice in what distro and desktop environment and web browser and shell and everything can create a bit of paralysis. And I've seen it happen over and over and over again. And what I would like for people to take away from this conversation we've had now, that's kind of been threaded through a few episodes is listen to the things that click for you. And, and then, and from that, maybe drive what you think might be the way to go. And that's what we're trying to do for Brent right now.

And of course, we're trying to do it for Brent in a time where he's got a lot of other stuff going on and he doesn't really have a lot of time to mess with this. But you might be in a different space. And maybe you're in a space where you really are ready. For some reason, we just started looking over the summer of immutability. Nix just came around at the right time for me. I was ready started looking over the summer of immutability. Nix just came around at the right time for me. I was ready for it and now I'm applying it everywhere.

So it just, there's a lot of factors. And I hope that instead of giving you one answer, we can kind of give you a series of data points that you can make a decision from. Can't disagree with anything you just said. I feel like that's the real answer is there's no one answer really. And, uh, I think I've been really impressed by listeners ability to have some empathy with my situation and pick out the points that I, you know, are important in my life and to make those suggestions. So, uh, thank you to everyone who had suggestions. And now it is time for the boost. And we did get a great batch of boosts this week. Our first one came in from River Rat, who boosted 50,000 sats.

Wow. And that would have been a baller boost normally. But River Rat came in and said, I'm a Linux noob. I found your show, Linux Unplugged, and then I found Self Hosted. I got Umbral running, and I have it on an Ubuntu server. I'm way over my head now, but I think I may have just sent you some stats. Nodes, channels, wallets, oh my! That's so great.

Riverette, first of all, welcome to the Unplugged program. It's great to have you on board. We are thrilled to have you here and also extremely impressed by you being a noob to Linux, sending us 50,000 sats and getting all of that set up. That makes young Chris, who is a big advocate for getting people to switch to Linux, really, really proud. I'm very happy to have you on board. Thank you for boosting into the show. Mr. Adam Curry, the podfather himself, sends in 25,000 sats. Keep the change, you filthy animal. And he just simply says, Graphene OS for the win. Yeah, I think Adam was early to Graphene OS. I think he was an early adopter, he knows what's up he's already graphened or is it giraffeen yeah it might be yeah you might you know what you're right yeah or i like to type it as graphene os that's how i it's graphing i'm on graphene os

stop it stop it it's too much it's just too much oh man uh neural lp comes in with 4 000 sats uh with a little bit of a warning stay away from qnap they're right go with synology or trunas i mean i love both those uh i like the features of my qnap but my qnap had a hardware problem but that's like one in a million right but he says go with Synology or TrueNAS if you're going to go with the NAS route when my QNAP died I found I couldn't mount the mirror on a regular Linux box QNAP uses a custom build of MDADM and LVM2 for volumes I tried everything to mount it even Gen2 to no avail oh boy oh wow's literally everything. When you go the Gen 2 route. Yeah.

That's a great benchmark, guys. You know, if we think about it for a NAS, if you get a prebuilt NAS, can you take those disks out and mount them on a standard Linux box? That should be the baseline. I don't know about Synology, but I do imagine a TrueNAS would be successful at that. Mr. Kiss boosted in with $22,222. Ah, some McDucks. This old duck still got it. All the way from Cape Town, South Africa, first-time booster.

Something you might find interesting is that here in South Africa, we have something called load shedding. The power company called Eskom has almost completely destroyed the economy of our country due to corruption over the past 20 years with no proper maintenance performed on our power plants, our grid, et cetera, which has created a situation where we have up to eight hours of power cuts a day at about two hour intervals. Keep up the good work guys. at about two hour intervals. Keep up the good work, guys. Ouch. That's a heavy boost.

South Africa. You know, that's what a SAT is a SAT in South Africa or in Seattle, Washington. I'm trying to think like if we lived in South Africa and we were doing this show, I could imagine a lot of what we'd be talking about would be building power solutions,

managing them with Linux, monitoring them with Linux. Because when I hear that you could have an outage for eight hours, I start thinking, well, I got to have a lithium power bank. I got to, you know, I got to have an inverter. Well, it sounds to me like you've sort of tested a small solution to this in Lady Jupes, Chris. Sure. Solar. I think in South Africa, you'd be okay with solar and just a huge battery bank, really. Sure. But it is interesting to think of like the perspective that gives me, you know, that I would, if I were in South Africa right now and I were facing eight hour power cuts at two hour intervals, I'd be thinking about power solutions right now, you know? hour intervals, I'd be thinking about power solutions right now, you know? Neural P, who boosted in just a moment ago, sent in a double boost, 4001 sats. Brent, what's wrong with Manjaro?

My Dev1 setup is running Manjaro Plasma with a USB-C docking station by HP hooked up to two UWQHD monitors. Only issue I have so far is having to use X instead of Wayland for the external monitors. When disconnected from the dock, Wayland works great. Oh, I have not really heard much about Wayland not working with specific USB-C docks.

Neural, I'd love more information on that if you have it. That's interesting. Also, thank you for incrementing your SATs. I mean, you don't need to do this. Not a requirement. But if you want to send in a couple of boosts in a row, a few people, Alex Gates and others have kind of keyed in on this. You can increment. So he sends in initially 4001 sats and he sends in 4002 sats. He'll increment the number. So that way I know which

order they're supposed to go in, which is really kind of handy. I kind of feel like at this point in time, where we're at with the desktop, if there's anything like this, where maybe your dock or, I don't know, whatever thing you need to do with your monitor, I don't know. If for whatever reason X works better for that thing, don't fuss about it.

I mean, some distros you try right now are just going to use X by default anyways. Just use it. You don't have to be a Wayland purist. There's no virtue to using Wayland. We're using Wayland in the cases because it works nicely or it comes by default and it's not causing problems. But we have a lot of options and that's awesome. Zack Attack boosted in with 10,000 sats.

Great show on Brent's Dev1. Has he considered Manjaro KDE? It's been stable for me on AMD hardware and I enjoy its update cadence. I'm picking up on a theme here. Yeah. I've got a couple of Manjaro recommendations and I bet in both cases, they've been listening to the show for a while and they know that when you started doing the show with us,

you were pretty happy with Arch. It's true. And that's your fault, Chris. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. You're welcome.

Have you thought about Manjaro? Not to put you on the spot, but now this is twice where you haven't answered the question. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to put it out there. It sounds like maybe we should redo this show to include Manjaro in the mix. No, no.

I'm just wondering like when, I mean, have you thought about just screw it let's go back to arch let's just do yeah i really have actually and i don't i don't think i have any experience with manjaro but i've heard repeatedly of people having really good experiences i hmm makes me reconsider that i thought i had tried everything but clearly just stay on course stay on target stay on target go with the open seuss but i just i just was curious um you know because there is something practical to it especially if you want a good plasma experience

let's call it my third option our 30s boosted in with 1024 sats i also get the feeling that kd is not the featured desktop that it once was for enough distros. After you discussed Fedora and the lawyers and a few episodes back, I'm also looking for a new distro that is KD focused and stable. Now they continued with another 1024 sets. I hear OpenSUSE could eventually have the same legal issues. Have you heard anything similar there? If so, that limits our good KDE distros even more. I would love to hear what your go-to KDE distro ends up being in the end.

I know you can always install KDE on any distro, but I like having a distro where KDE is featured, tested, and has as few quirks as possible. I got two thoughts on this. Number one, Wes, correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't really seen much updates in terms of Codex and OpenSUSE from just their considering it, right? Do you remember anything more current than that? I remember that being discussed.

I don't know that I've seen anything concrete, but I also, admittedly, am not running SUSE currently, so I could totally have missed it. That's kind of where I'm at with it. I just wish they wouldn't even talk about it maybe that's what they decided maybe they decided we should just stop talking about it especially publicly um because all of that can be used all right so then oh then one layer back from this what if you know okay here's where i think a best case scenario right brent you you get happySUSE you're happy with Plasma you kind of become a representative of the OpenSUSE of Plasma world you kind of you kind of live in that area

you always got a at least one foot in that world and can kind of keep us up to date because it is admittedly an area where we're beginning to build a bit of a blind spot because I've got Plasma here and here but I'm not all in right and everything else at this point is genome, or I'm sorry, genome. And everything else is going to be NixOS over time. And I could really use somebody who keeps their foot in that world. That would be, I think, the best case scenario, but, you know, no pressure. Oh, okay. Thanks.

Mickey Will boosts in with 3,333 sets. 3,333 sets. A long-time listener, first-time booster. Recently got caught up on office hours, and it's inspired me to get a domain and try to build a blog on Hugo. Especially after some trials and tribulations in building my first custom keyboard, with a hodgepodge of parts, thanks to a lack of stock. Love all your projects and the discussion around what's a good desktop and what's a good server platform.

Really insightful, especially oddities like the Arch Server Experiment. Thanks, that's great. Oddities, I like that. Yes, it is. I would love to know two things. A, how the Hugo experiment goes, and B, I'd like to know more about that keyboard. Hugo is what we're running, jupiterbroadcasting.com on. Our community has built us an incredible website. Hugo, come join our website project. I feel like that's been a great place for me to learn some of the Hugo intricacies and basics even.

And there's a lot of people there who are really super helpful. So if you're doing it on your own, come join us and maybe you can impart some knowledge and gain some as well. The Golden Dragon, our official show mascot, boosts in with a row of ducks. Reagan, our official show mascot, boosts in with a row of ducks. A JB distro would be really interesting. Now, my prediction here, immutable, Debian-based, with Genome, where we can all view our GIFs. I could really get behind this. Something maybe, you know, NixOS or Silverblue-based, but like, you, Respun for awesomeness with Genome on there, totally up to date. That could be great.

Whole bunch. It's perfect, you know, set up for podcasting, maybe some audio creation, but also like ready for podcasts, listening, serious podcast listening. Oh yeah. High fidelity audio, pipewire focus. If for audiophiles, they want to listen to their flacks at the highest fidelity, you know, you go get your JB Distro with the Premiere Genome 43. Would it have some Boost CLI documentation or pre-installation ready for you when you're ready? Would that be it?

Maybe it's its own node, right? It's where Boost CLI is already set up and good to go. We might already have some flavors on our hands here, boys. Tori the hellhound, moves in with a row of ducks. Thought I would chip in and boost the show to keep you guys ahead

of the Bitcoin Audible podcast. Also, when it comes to the whole GIF conversation, here are my votes for I'm a GIF agnostic and I just don't care. Keep on trucking. Love the show.

I remember before we had the GIFs. Thank you. Thank you for the battle against the Bitcoin Audible podcast continues. And every set counts. We did well this week, boys. We did really well. I genuinely am emotionally preparing myself for the week where we don't do well, but it is such a thrill. It is so great because again, long time doing this and like iTunes and Spotify and, you know, all of those are never going to care about a Linux podcast.

It's talking about this crazy esoteric stuff, right? But to actually see the signal from the audience with real value and have that come through on a platform that measures that and then to have us dominate even the native currency podcast. That's good stuff, guys. You're doing great. You know, I feel like the Bitcoin Audible podcast, when they put that that sort of challenge out to their audience, really what they inadvertently did was just boost us even more. And I think that's really good you know what and again i think guy does great stuff but yeah i have to agree it was uh it was a call to action right more boosts for everyone that's what i say that's true it made me think too we're

transitioning from an attention economy to an actual value economy and i i that seems like a small thing but it is transformational because so many things on the internet are based on getting your attention. That is the unspoken currency of the internet is your attention. Websites, podcasts, YouTube, social media, all of it, all of it just wants your attention. And all of it is an attempt to just claw at more of your attention. Anything they can do to get more of your attention. Anything they can do to get more of your attention. Think about that.

Anything they can do. If you've been watching the news, if you've been watching what's going on with SBF, any of that, and you've seen the absolute total bankruptcy of the media and the total failure to cover what's going on here, it's because of the incentives. And it's all because it's an attention-based economy. And what we're doing here is we're shifting to a value-for-value-based economy where you're sending us value. It is a tectonic shift that the more you think about it, the bigger of a deal you

realize it is. It's huge. So thank you, everybody. Hybrid sarcasm boosts in with another row of ducks. Just joined the Jupiter party. Thanks for all the hard work. Well, thank you, Hybrid, and welcome to the party. That's so great. Also to just thank you for becoming a member and then boosting in about that. We are double what? Yeah, too much. We are working on making the member feeds boostable, but I appreciate the work it takes to navigate that right now.

We also got Mississippi mayhem who wanted to boost in 4,667 sats, but didn't want me to mention it on air. Didn't want to have to take up any airtime because they felt like they've been talking too much. And I say, say no i really appreciate hearing from all of you these boosts make our day thank you so much if you'd like to send a boost into the show go get a podcasting 2.0 compatible app upgrade by going to newpodcastapps.com or if you really want to impress us i mean i i mean it's not easy but if you really want to blow us away, send in a boost with a boost CLI tool, which is it requires you to become the master of several domains. Now, before we go, we had a lot of picks for this week.

We had some really high end picks. We had some picks that I just decided to blow in the members pre-show. We had picks that will have ramifications for years going forward, which we will save. But I wanted to throw all of that out because the pick that I want to mention today is so important. I felt it was necessary to only have one pick. I know this tune.

It can't be. There is now a Who Wants to Be a Millionaire flat pack. And if you would like to become a millionaire, at least in your own household, you can now install Who Wants to Be a Millionaire right on your machine, any machine that supports Flatpak. And here's my request and why we made this the focus pick of the episode. My request is somebody out there in the audience does me a solid, a personal solid. And that is you go get this and you modify it to be who wants to be a Linux satoshier. And you replace all of the millionaire questions with Linux questions. We've done this before and it is so much effing fun, but we just don't have the time as a crew

right now to do this. And now that there is an app that runs on Linux that we could conceivably potentially get in and quote unquote hack and add our own Linux based questions for all the different categories. We could have so much fun if somebody took the time to put this together. And now that this app's out there, I'm just putting the call out there. Please, someone, please make this Linux Satoshi Air and make it full of Linux questions and replace the dollar amounts with sats. And please give us this gift because we would have so much fun with our live stream.

We've done this before. It looks like it's a relatively straightforward C application. So yeah, gosh, anyone with those skills and who loves making Linux questions. I would love to have something like this, especially if we could just have a base set of questions that somebody supplied that we could then slot in new

questions so we could do things on the live stream and have fun. We've played around with this before, and it is such a hoot. Even if you don't do it, even if you just want to play the game, it's a lot of fun. It's a good trivia game. We'll have a link in the show notes. It's up on Flathub. But we need somebody to quote-unquote, you know, hack it. can you hack it for us yeah i get because we need to hack

all right put a link to that show notes it's on flat hub too who wants to be a millionaire you know about it all right that brings us to the end of this this is too long it's way too long of an episode but we just had a lot to cover and And that brings the, I just, from my heart to yours, please, please make this happen. Somebody out there, please make this happen. Give Chris a Christmas present of who wants to be a Linux Satoshi-er, because this would be so much fun to play in the live stream. And we did kind of, we did kind of hack it all together a while ago, but it's, it's just a mess.

So, uh, anyways, I'm putting it in there and you can play with it. And if you just want to play with it, you don't want to help me out, that's fine. That's fine. I won't hold it against you. You can practice up for, you know, some future competitions that you may or may not have. There you go.

Oh, thank you very much, everybody who becomes a member. Don't forget that promo code 2022. You can sign up at Jupiter Party. That's it. I'm kind of spent. So I'll just end by saying we stream this thing. See you next week. Same bad time, same bad station.

I don't know why you'd want to spend your Sunday doing this, but if you do, go over to Jupiter.tube. I know, it's a lot of Jupiter dots. I get it confused myself. Jupiter.tube is where you go to watch us live on Sundays. We start at around noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern, and we just keep on going until

Brent stops talking. You know, that's what we got to do. No one can say when, but you can find out. Links to what we talked about at linuxunplugged.com slash 487. And of course, mumble details on our website, jupyterbroadcasting.com. We'd love to have you there. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you right back here next Sunday. oof you know if we get into like how many different possible distros Brent might be able to use, we could be here all day. Like concurrently? Yeah. Well, no, I mean, just as your primary, then of course, virtual machines and K exec, obviously. Yeah, clearly. Yeah, we'll teach you what you need.

Yeah. I feel like that's also a bit of a sign of success, don't you think? Like there are a lot of projects out there doing distinct things. And so some people are loving every single one of those projects it's just up to me to choose which one i love you know brent you you could get hired by a company that's undergoing like like ftx should hire you and be like brent could you positively spin everything that's happening right now and then you would come in and be like you know guys if you think if you think about it, this is really just kind of an examination

of the human soul of what motivates us and what really fulfills us as humans. And if we just spend some time really kind of coming together on this issue, I think we'd all be quite happy and we'd find some resolution. Like you would nail that. Considering what we've learned,

I mean, aren't we all, it seems like a fair price to pay. No kidding. Yeah. I mean, a $300,000 salary would save us money at this rate. Oh, I think my first question to them would be, how are you paying me? Right, right. That's true. You would definitely want to check that out. All right. Before we go,

one more plug, tuxes.party, please go vote on the 2022 Tuxes because we want as many votes as possible. So that way we have as much representation as possible. Tuxes.party, it's coming up sooner than you'd like to admit. Well, Chris, I've got a little something for you. In the chat room, it looks like the computer guy has already found that millionaire game and where all of the questions are found. And so the ball is rolling. Your wish might come true sooner than you think.

That's a great start.