LINUX Unplugged - 488: Revenge of the Lizard People

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

We complete a year-long journey and discover some unspoken truths about a great Linux distro. Plus one small, and one major update on our GrapheneOS adventure.

I've noticed the fans on the dev one aren't as like jumpy since this new install. Just putting that out there. Isn't that nice? Even is what you're saying. Even Keevan, is that? Yeah, more smooth. But not even Steven. Smooth who's?

Because, you know, Steven turned out to be an asshole. Even Keevan, that's what you want. Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. And my name is Brent. Hello, gentlemen, and good morning to our friends over at Tailscale. Tailscale is a mesh VPN protected by WireGuard.

We love it. It's going to change your networking game. Go say good morning and try it for free up to 20 devices at Talescale.com. Coming up on the show today, we're going to complete our hero's journey and return to the village where our story begun one year ago, Brent's hometown of OpenSeuss. Yes, it's been just over a year since we visited the lizards. Hard to believe. I know. We've been on quite the journey since then. All ofards. Hard to believe. I know. We've been on quite the journey since then.

All of us have grown. We've made discoveries. And we're going to share them on today's episode. Been a little unfaithful. We'll have details on that. Plus, a small update on my Graphene OS switch and one massive update on somebody else's. We'll get to that. And then we'll round it out with some boosts

some feedback and more so before i go any further let's say time appropriate greetings to our virtual lug hello mumble room hello hello guys hi wow that's a powerful showing right there i feel the energy from here hi thanks for being here um i want to mention right off the top because we're getting so down to the wire. It's time to go vote on the Tuxes, y'all. It is nomination survey time. It was actually time to vote last week, but we weren't ready for that yet. So now it's especially time. We wanted to get this out in October because we're recording very soon.

So go take the survey. It's not very long. very soon. So go take the survey. It's not very long and help us pick the best open source desktops, distros, projects, hardware, et cetera. Tuxes.party. We're going to have that soon because the holiday prerecords, well, after we get done recording this episode today, Wes Brent and I are going to schedule them. So they're coming up really soon, maybe even as early as next weekend. So check jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar because the tuxes will be in there along with our annual predictions review and new predictions for 2023. And we always love getting the mumble room and the

matrix chat predictions in there as well and the boosters. So watch that calendar because it's all coming up really soon. Also just as we're getting to now the end of the year, I don't normally, I'm not a numbers guy. In fact, I've worked with people who've thought it was annoying how little I cared about the numbers. Maybe I've under cared. Maybe I should have cared a little more sometimes.

But doing this a while, you just get a sense of when things are going well and when things aren't going very well. And so I just haven't really needed to check LEP's numbers because, you know, according to my metrics, everything's going well. But I got curious recently because we've been getting a lot of notes into the show about first-time listener, new listener,

that kind of stuff at a higher clip than normal. I wanted to go look, kind of see where we're at. And it blew me away. The numbers the show's getting now are numbers that i i would classify them as life goals you know maybe if you know if we were trying to do a different thing now you know if we weren't focusing more on value for value and memberships you know maybe we'd be going out there and selling those numbers to people but we don't have to do that but it was really it was really um i don't know. It's just awesome to be

onboarding so many new people while they're on their Linux journey. So welcome onto the show, everybody reach out at linuxunplugged.com slash contact, or send a boost into the show and let us know how your journey is going, where you're at. If you're a new listener, we'd like to hear from you. Yeah. Maybe join the matrix. It's really awesome. And I think there's, there's probably several reasons why the numbers are up, But I think part of it is because consistently our audience in the new podcast apps have been keeping us at the top of the Fountain FM charts. Fountain is seeing a good clip in user adoption right now. week in like the top seven then we got up to like the top two in the top three-ish range and then our ballers came in and put us over and we got into spot one and every time we're in that top range we end up onboarding new people and so i just want to start the show today by saying thank you to pie who sent in a row of ginormous king ducks 222,222 sats and what i love about this is a lot of times these are our long timers right it's our

long timers that are coming in and supporting the show and we are getting high signal on charts that that measure engagement and value not ones that engage that measure downloads and clicks right so it's a real high signal and he says pie writes long time listener first time booster i just wanted to thank you with a beer i was in seattle recently from the uk but i failed miserably to buy you a beer in person oh hey don't worry about it though as long as you had a good time out here in the pacific northwest that's a success yeah you know i think there was a couple people that were in town while we were on the road trip it always happens that way and hey bye let us know if you yeah you make it back this way yeah on the note on the note of

pronunciations over the years of listening to chris confidently pronounce things questionably has given someone like myself with dyslexia confidence in my professional career my sats are to vote as jif to be pronounced as dave you know i can say dave yeah dave all right you know what you're gonna read it really smoothly and i feel like i feel like a dave file that's a great to be pronounced as Dave. You know, I can say Dave. Yeah, Dave. All right. You know what? You're going to read it really smoothly. And I feel like a Dave file. That's great. I think a Dave file is a great idea.

I'm going to need someone to send a Dave to us about Dave, like referencing a Dave. Are you sure it's not Dave? Don't you start. You bastard. Pi followed up with 50,000 sats just to say congratulations because they went back and checked uh the top fountain list and saw that we were on the top of the list and it was pie it was your boost that put us over the top so thank you value for value for value at this point

tech geek came in with 127 000 and one sats hey chris and jupiter team uh tech geek here edward i told you i'd boost in soon so how about this did you guys see the artemis launch it was glorious not only was the launch glorious but this morning as we were prepping the show we also watched the automated landing too yeah boy what a thing to watch first vessel made by man designed to carry man to go that far away from the earth it's possible aliens have done it before but first ones humans have made so that's really exciting and they're building towards now sending humans up there you know as of right now the thing doesn't even have life support systems yeah there's more tests on that to come i will say on my drive up to the studio i was sorely

missing like i was just thinking if i had a couple solid rocket boosters this would have gone a little bit faster yeah you just gotta go up and then down so much easier it's that down part you got to figure out uh tech geek writes in regards to fedora 37 i believe someone mentioned in a previous episode that there should be a branch of it you know kind of like a fork i completely agree i love fedora and i've been using it since the early years but i haven't upgraded from 36 yet and i'd be favoring a fork or a branch. Really, I just miss Corora Linux. Oh, yeah. I had kind of forgotten about old Corora. Well, Corora kind of faded in being necessary when it became easy to get the codecs in the NVIDIA driver.

Exactly. All right, just to round it out, Soltros came in. Hey, Chris, Wes, and Brent, I've been listening since Dubstep Allen. I thought it was finally time to get a membership. Also tossing you 100,000 sats, so that way KDE is rightfully pronounced as K-D-E, and

OpenSUSE is rightfully pronounced as OpenSUSE. Thanks again for being part of my life since 2011. Derek. I think we used to call it OpenSUSE. We may have done that. I hate you both. We may have done that. I think that's Susie. Susie that's Susie. Susie?

Or Susie? It's Sousa. Or is it Susan? Oh my gosh. Why? Open Susan, though, is so good. I feel like we're going to create major issues for ourselves here. We're going to need a whole... Yeah.

No, we're going to have to set guide rails on this, clearly. We got to. It's too much. It's too much. Because you know there's a wing of our audience who just gets triggered by mispronunciations to begin with. Some of this has been honestly having a little fun at them. And some of it's about exposing this issue that's in our industry and having some fun with that. And then, you know, people throwing in some sats.

Well, maybe we need a Dave that just goes through them all to remind us, you know, before the show, we can just watch it. Yeah. Dave flash card system would be great. Gerald boosted with 100,000 sats to say great show. We can just watch it. Yeah, Dave flash card system would be great. Gerald boosted with 100,000 sats to say great show. Thanks. And Penguin Stargazer boosted with 74,205 sats.

He boosted recently too. Sid, you asked about when was my first episode? It was LUT 473. Now I'm curious what you guys are doing with that ARC GPU that was mentioned on the show back. This is what I want to talk about.

Particularly interested in the AV1 encoder. I purchased an A750 recently. I'm thinking about building it in my editing a workstation machine at some point so our arc video card is right here because we're probably most likely in theory going to deploy the thaleo in like the post holiday weeks mostly giving it a uh we're trying to extend this to then so that we can do it during some downtime. But also, the state of the drivers isn't amazing, right? And so if we can give a couple of kernels, well, minor releases even, to get the driver in a better state. Like they just introduced something just a couple of days ago last week. That kind of stuff.

So I'm sort of trying to time that just right. But we will hopefully towards, you know, I don't know, early, mid January, have it in the Thaleo. We're getting excited.

Have it up and running. Yeah. Yeah. We're probably going to see the arc GPU be properly supported with Linux six, two. So that's going to roll out what February ish, I think. Okay.

So we'll be right before it's easy to use it. And so if we would just wait like another month, we could have an easy time, but of course we're not going to wait that month. That's not as fun. And our last baller boost. This is fantastic. Everybody.

Thank you so much. 60,000 sats from Jared. Jared from the geocache fame said, I finally figured out how to boost into the show. And I just want to say thanks for the geocache adventures. Oh, thank you. We'll have more on the geocache stuff next year as well,

because I think we have, we have a good idea of what we want to do, but then it just didn't really make sense to do it in the middle of winter. geocache adventures oh thank you we'll have more on the geocache stuff next year as well because i think uh we have we have a good idea of what we want to do but then it just didn't really make sense to do it in the middle of winter when we have other stuff we're doing anyways so it'll probably be a spring project and then we'll get a community geocache effort i'd love to get out there if that became big enough where i could go out and get some exercise and do some geocache searching well chris there's a geocache hidden on a now shut down mountain pass near you that you can go try that would be fun if we had snowmobiles or snow shoes you got you got snowmobiles anywhere i do have snow shoes really yeah oh yeah why do you have snow shoes

well we live next to mountains yeah okay just seems like the thing you'd rent i guess but i don't know i don't know. I don't know. But yeah, okay. Snowmobiles. Snowmobiles. Then we could go up there and we could get... Yeah, that would be such a fun day. Brent, meet us there? Yeah, sure.

So the issue is the roads are closed off to where the geocache is. So you can park near there and there are ways to get up and around the gates with snowmobiles. So just saying that'd be pretty cool we had some real good support last week and um i really really just thank you everybody it's again life goals right like i feel like i don't know there's something really something really powerful happening here for the show and i'm really really grateful and part of it really started off because guy swan over at bitcoin audible gave us a call out trying to beat us started off because guy swan over at bitcoin audible gave us a call out trying to beat us and you guys you guys trounced him so hard that he had to mention it again on the show subscribe

boost on fountain try to get try to get those numbers up baby linux unplugged i just i swear i swear i'm i've i we have we're gonna have words sir we're going to have words they took advantage of the fact that I made it known and it's happening okay, we're closing out the day thank you guys so much for listening subscribe, I'll catch you on the next one and until then everybody

take it easy guys there's something kind of great about this right we love you guy it's just good fun in my estimation it's more important that a non-bitcoin focus shows sit there right there at the top plus it's a great kind of crossover with that community and we can help them become just self-sovereign individuals in general not with just their money but also with their data and their software and that's what this show is about so bring them in guy send them our way and then you know uh wouldn't be uh so bad if we stayed at the charts for at least one more week maybe we can make it till like the

holidays i don't know eventually it's gonna break right it won't last forever and embracing myself but in the meantime thank you everybody and guy i'm sorry not really but everybody let's beat him again let's do it one more time let's do one just one more time one more time okay so before we get to the sue stuff i wanted to give everyone a quick update on my graphene os journey this is still probably one of the things i'm most excited about in my personal life i'm tinkering with it all the time still absolutely silly and but yet elated to say that the stupid magsafe case i got for my pixel 7 pro has all the stupid little magsafe magnets in there work so well with all my stuff i it was basically all my car mounts work really well which is nice because the pixel 7 has low power buttons

i mean i'm sorry volume buttons so a lot of car mounts grab that. I'm just trying to grab right there. Yeah. So to be able to just use the magnets with nothing on the edges is so great, but also ridiculous. Apple's stupid doesn't really work that great. Overpriced, portable, magnetic, additional battery that you can snap onto the back of a MagSafe iPhone. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Works with the Pixel 7. Is that right? So I can walk around with their stupid overpriced battery that I, and I can snap. That you've already paid for. Yeah, and I can snap it on the back of my Pixel and charge my Pixel. I mean, there's, there's something kind of awesome about that. Or you can like bring one and then the lady can use it or you could use it depending on. Yeah, I'm, I'm tempted. I'm tempted to see if I could get her on a Pixel. That's something I'm a little concerned about, I have to say, I've been thinking more about the family adoption as I use this.

The other area that Apple has them is the Apple arcade. Cause we have this monthly Apple one subscription for the whole family. And it's a ridiculously good value because they all get access to the arcade. And there's the Sasquatch game and they're sneaky Sasquatch. And my kids call it squanching and they all all Squanch. And they do like holiday Squanch updates. Sure. And so they've just done a holiday. Like a cute theme maybe on the Squanch? Okay. Well now you get to become a mayor.

The Sasquatch used to become a mayor of the town. And so it's like. As it should be. It's about time. It's a big deal. And you know the gaming experience in general is better on the iOS devices. They're just better gaming devices. And so that's tricky. You add the iMessage ecosystem which is better on the iOS devices. They're just better gaming devices. And so that's tricky. So you add the iMessage ecosystem, which is strong in their social group.

You add in FaceTime and then you add in Apple Arcade. That's rough. Oh, and like my wife has an Apple Watch, right? So that's just, I don't know. I'm becoming a little bit disenfranchised about my ability to switch them in the future. Although I think it could be possible if I had to. Yeah. But I keep getting positive notes from the audience about how they were able to set up their iPhones and use their iPhones with NextCloud and stop using Apple.

In fact, we got a couple of notes into the show about it. It's a good point, right? Like you can have a lot of middle ground. You can still sort of use, if you switch over for, you know, matrix for family stuff, sure, maybe they iMessage with their friends still, but it's less.

Your chat's better. Yeah. And I think having a NextCloud instance still remains one of the best moves I did before I switched to Graphene OS because the NextCloud stuff remains the piping and glue I use to kind of get all this together.

This sounds bad, but I'm, you saying that? I'm now really surprised that I have not really heard you complaining about Next. You've been dramatically scaled up your use of it and I have not heard a lot more complaints. Right? You're right. I've gone from using it for basic our hosted one that we use for JB for like basic file transfer

and now I've deployed my own personal Next Cloud on my Odroid and I'm using it for calendar. I'm using it for photos. I'm using it for files. I'm also now using it for notes and tasks. Talk about that in a second. And I'm doing it all over Tailscale.

I'm still doing it only over Tailscale, and that's working really well. Because it's like a minimum viable Nextcloud instance with two users, and it's not on the internet. Right. Super low key. That's nice. Right? It's protected by WireGuard for the networking. And so, yeah, I'm using NextCloud Notes, which is a very straightforward.

It's not going to be my only note application, but I often just need to capture lists or ideas about things. And NextCloud Notes supports Markdown, has some basic functionality, has some decent search. It's available on FDroid, and as the name implies, it syncs with Nextcloud. That actually sounds surprisingly decent. You just want to capture some stuff or look at stuff, you can clean it up on a desktop later maybe if you want. Well, that's just it, Wes. You nailed it.

So that was the moment for me where I was like, oh, this works great. Because today, this morning, this morning I wanted to put some notes in the dock from my Graphene OS switch that I've been kind of writing stuff down using that notes app. And I was like, yeah, I could go open it up on my phone,

but I opened up my Nextcloud folder on my desktop that synced, went into the notes folder. There's all my text notes. There's all my notes that I've been writing all week. I just opened it right there on the desktop, copied them from the notes thing

and pasted them into the dock. I'm like, okay, well, job done. So that's been really nice to have access on the desktop, copied them from the notes thing and pasted them into the doc. I'm like, okay, well, job done. So that's been really nice to have access on the desktop computer using that. I know you probably have done something similar for a while, Brent. Yeah, a while. It was about, I think, four years when I transitioned into trying to use NextCloud for everything. And Notes, the application specifically for Android, has come a long way in that time. And I feel these days is pretty darn good. And there's a little bit of a hack, Chris, that I wanted to share with you that I think might be useful for

you. Now, my NextCloud server has a few users. So that includes some of my more tech savvy family members. So my brother, for instance, things like that. And I figured out a way that you can share notes or specifically even notes folders. Oh, great. Yeah. The notes app supports subfolders as well, which in the app, I think are called like categories or something like that. But on your, you know, desktop OS, if you're doing syncing that way, they're just folders.

And I figured out that if you do some sharing of those folders with another next cloud user on your server, I suppose it might work with federation as well. That way you can share notes back and forth. So we have things like, you know, grocery lists and things like that, that we share that is sort of collaborative. It's not as strong as the dedicated collaborative editing. So occasionally there's a little hiccup or two, if we've got like three users trying to edit the same note at the same time. For stuff that's really asynchronous, I find it actually works really well. So that's a neat little trick you might try. So to be clear, you're basically using

the NextCloud file level or folder level sharing, and then that folder shows up between both of you and then the NextCloud Notes app just sees it natively? Yeah, because if you imagine the Notes app as just really an alternative interface for the file syncing, then in that way, it just provides some really useful features when you're on the go for your phone. But on the back end, it's really just doing a bunch of syncing. So you can do some NextCloud file system level sharing of those folders. And they just kind of appear in the notes app. It's really handy. That is a great tip. Thank you. I will probably use that immediately. The other app that I'm using along the same kind of lines is task.org. This is one

that was sent into us by a few and I like it. It's pretty comprehensive. It's an open source to-do list and reminder application and it syncs with lots of different things it'll do google if that's what you want it'll do davix or caldav or whatever you like so you got a lot of functionality and options there of course you can run it offline you can set up an etsy sync if you'd like for that's what i heard a few people doing or i'm sorry an etc no no uh i think it ETE Sync is what people told me they're using. ETE. Yeah. But, you know, of course, I've already got NextCloud doing file system sync, so I'm just leaning into that as my solution.

Huh. This is, it used to be Astrid. Okay. Astrid was a popular cross-platform productivity service. I loved Astrid back in the day. Interesting. I did not know that. Good catch. So, tasks.org is the app I've been using for my to-dos and reminders and that one i think is pretty comprehensive like notes i can feel like

there's there's absolutely still a role for something like obsidian or an evernote type replacement that i haven't found yet but for my basic just task lists and you know stuff like that task.org and nextcloud notes are are really kind of doing it for me. So that's my small update. But we have a big, huge update. We have a big, massive update from Mr. Wes Payne. I'm very excited about this. Wes decided.

You know what? Gotta say, I didn't think he'd go all the way. Wes decided to get the 7 Pro himself. I thought maybe he'd do the 7. I was tempted, but, you know, the camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, have you tried it yet already? Only a tiny bit.

You want to break it out? You got the box over there? You brought the box for the full experience. It's surprisingly small. For a big phone, it comes in a really small box, you know? Oh, yeah, that's still freshly in there. So, in other words, you didn't get too hooked on the default google sauce no i haven't set it up at all actually good good that's i think the best approach you know you get too dependent on those google only features yeah there you go i mean i think the biggest thing

you're gonna miss when you don't use the like the google sauce is the uh like oh hello team pixel you're gonna miss like the ability to invoke the google assistant with your voice perhaps i've been doing that a little more than i probably should so it's both a good thing and it will be an adjustment you actually can install the assistant and sandbox it but you'll never be able to get the remote voice activation to work that's the graphene just draws the line there oh yeah this is uh this is big it's pretty though oh the that's the green right or whatever they call it in gold yeah hazel i think that i got mine looks boring now compared to yours that's really nice that looks good with the with the uh silver metal around the edges too yeah i like it that's a good looking phone i would look but i'm so it feels nice in the hand

it's big i'm gonna have to get i've never had a phone this big so that was i was a little unsure yeah it'll be an adjustment yeah the screen is so nice it's just big enough to make my hands hurt if i hold it for about an hour but um you know what i love it for video i love it for content i love it for filming the big screen's so great for that stuff. So it's been worth it. Well, congrats. So after the show, after we're done recording, while we're figuring out our schedule, we're going to Graphene OS that thing, right? Yeah, I'm excited. Why not, right?

Yeah, I've not signed in. I've not really. I'm not sure I'm using the stock Android on my current Pixel 3. Yeah, so you're familiar with it. I'm ready for a new era. Yeah, I think you're going to love it. And, you know, it's such a performance upgrade from your Pixel 3. It's a huge upgrade. And Graphene OS has been really solid and reliable.

I've had at least, and I mean at least, maybe more, but at least three updates that have just automatically downloaded in the background. I got a little notification telling me to reboot. I think the last one that I got, they say, is their largest release since their initial Android 13 release in August. It's an upgrade to their first quarterly release of Android 13 with a massive amount of improvements. They say the release took a ton of work. It did take a little while to update after the reboot, but smooth as butter. Absolutely no problems in at least three over-the-air updates with Graphene OS. That's what I want to hear.

There was a time, Wes, when that kind of stuff just didn't work, you know? And it's solid now. Linode.com slash unplugged. That's where you go to get $100 in 60-day credit on a new account. And it's a great way to support the show while you're checking out fast and reliable cloud hosting. And I tell you about linode so i thought maybe i'd let the ai tell you about linode the xorg sent this into the show this is a chat gpt ad read for me let's see how it does i actually haven't read the whole thing so we'll find out together uh chat gpt's version of my

pitch is quote linode is the real deal, fam. Our sick servers and top-notch customer support and squad will have your website or app running like a well-oiled machine. Plus, our platform is user-friendly AF. So even if you're not a tech wizard, you can easily set up and manage your stuff. Our prices are totally affordable and our plans are flexible AF. Join us today and experience the power of Linode Hashtag Linode Rocks. That's not bad, ChatGPT. You know, you used AF twice, so I dock you for that.

They get you to be more creative. But I like that you managed to work in FAM and six servers. I got to incorporate that. And it is top-notch customer support they have the unique arrangement because of the way linode was built because of the way linode was structured because of the honestly because they just had to compete they're structured in a way where they just have a real large support department with real humans that answer the phone 365 and take care of your problem right where all of the other large hyperscalers are very much incentivized to reduce the human costs there but linode's had to compete

on the quality of the product that's why they really are the best out there and they're 30 to 50 percent cheaper than the hyperscalers that want to lock you in for years and to see into these crazy esoteric systems so go try out linode it really is fast it's reliable it's how we host everything when we when we knew it was time to build our new website we didn't like like have a big debate you know we looked at some of our testing that we've done we looked at the reliability we've had with what we've hosted we looked at the performance that we can get on a system that we need that matches our cost performance requirements and linode was obvious and then when you combine the fact that they've been around for nearly 19 years and they're rock solid like that kind of long-term view that's how

i want to take on my infrastructure right i don't want to be moving my server every few years or i mean some of these really cheap ones is every few months and meanwhile linode manages to maintain great pricing great support and great feature. And they have 11 data centers around the world with a dozen more coming online soon. So go try it out and support the show. Go load something. Go learn something. Go try something. Heck, go break something, right?

It's a great opportunity to try that. And you can support the show. Linode.com slash unplugged. That's Linode.com slash unplugged. Well, as you know, it's been,, Chris, you said almost a year. And I checked while we were talking there at November 2021. So a little bit over a year since we last tried Tumbleweed specifically, OpenSUSE's Tumbleweed. And this week I listened to that episode. It's an excellent episode. So I think if anyone wants to revisit sort of my initial excitement about trying out Tumbleweed, go have a listen. It was also the era where we had just learned what SteamOS was going to be like with some of the immutability. So it was a really fun episode. I would totally suggest someone, if you're interested, have another listen it's a good background to this conversation i think all three of us did a re-listen of episode 432 uh in preparation of this episode and you can really hear the groundwork of our interest in

the immutable stuff really kicking off in this one but also brent you really seemed at home with open seuss in that episode that's i mean you genuinely sounded happy with open Seuss in that episode. That's, I mean, you genuinely sounded happy with open Seuss in that episode. Yeah. I was reflecting on the like excitement in my voice the whole time. And I was like,

Oh, I haven't actually felt that for a while. I know this year I've had some struggles, uh, some with plasma, some with, you know, some of the other distributions that we've been

trying and so i was like oh this time around am i gonna feel that same excitement and i gotta say i have so i think it's a good sign it's a good sign at least to start with yes you know your excitement around open seuss in that episode at least i'll see if it remains the same today reminded me of how I'm feeling about NixOS. Like you were just like genuinely like I've found my people, you know, I'm one amongst the lizards. And then we kind of took a path away and we were going to deploy it on all of our servers and all of that. But our path down discovering Silverblue and Endless and NixOS and OpenSUSE Immutable, like all of that really was our focus for a bit.

And I feel like that path re-energized how I feel about Linux, just completely made me super excited about NixOS and building my systems again. And I've moved my personal systems over to that. And now here we are back. And I feel like revisiting Open Seuss, I'm a little conflicted. I liked it a lot too. I liked it enough where I'm thinking maybe I'm keeping an Open Seuss system around. Maybe this is what I'm going to put on Dylan's laptop in the future. I really was impressed by it because a year later after looking at Seuss, because I took it just, you know, took a different direction for a while.

I found a distribution that's improved in that time. And just by doubling down on things they were already doing well and just building out on that effect, like the packages, there's even more selection now. The build service is still going, still great stuff in there. There's tooling that we'll talk about to help harness that that's better than ever. And then on top of that, you know, like they're still tooling away at ButterFS. The partitioning stuff is still really smart. Like all of those things still really impressed me.

Wes, what was your like first like initial like reaction to using SUSE again? Positive, troubled? How did that go? Oh, no, I've been actually having a great time. I like being on a modern rolling distro. So you tumble? Oh, yeah, I'm on tumbleweed over here. You did tumbleweed as well, right? We I'm on Tumbleweed over here, just regular. You did Tumbleweed as well, right? We all three did Tumbleweed? How could you not? We got so many listeners write in and suggested that that was the way to go.

Yeah, I considered Leap, looked at it a little bit, but I think I'm going to- Yeah, I haven't downloaded it, but- Yeah, same. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, continue. No, it's nice. I mean, Plasma is really shining. It's nice to be on both a modern and curated Plasma that I like. You know, I don't have to tweak it really that far to get like a very usable workflow. I don't normally have it

in this sort of like Windows-y bar at the bottom, but I don't, that's a workflow I'm familiar with, so I don't feel the need to like super adjust it. Yeah, you can just make it work immediately. Yeah. I'm also consistently impressed. Well, we chatted a little bit about the de-installer work that's happening in the future, right? But just their existing installer is already, it's so nice. It feels so sophisticated. Like, did you guys disable all them kernel mitigations? Because I forget to do that on a lot of systems, but I sure have them off here. I turn the firewall off, too, and I turn SSH on.

And I appreciate that that stuff is the opposite, but it's really easy. You just click it de-installer just a quick mention is there a new installer that is really coming along and we did a review of it in the most recent Linux action news just as an aside sorry go ahead and it's obviously different than NixOS but and I have complicated feelings about it but the the level of sort of sophistication and hooks that Yast has into the system, I think addresses similar needs. Like, you know, it gives you an interface of control that on other Linuxes you have, of course, but you kind of, you feel like you're hodgepodging through a whole bunch of different files. Yeah, I think a good example of that is I wanted to turn off the splash for boot.

Yeah. It's really nice to just be able to go into yast and just delete the you know splash stuff in my bootloader options and hit update and it just takes care of all of the bootloader configuration stuff for me i have mixed feelings on yast still but i do appreciate that aspect of it yeah i think uh also the installer i tried the network installer and the the full download regular the network installer wanted to download like a new boot image and it i'm pretty sure it k exact because it restarts right like it didn't it is that what it's doing i was wondering what it does i'm not sure i don't know because i was having some bootloader problems at the time and those bootloader problems were preventing me from booting back into its new image interesting so at least on my system i think it was doing a full

rebizzle, but I'm not sure. Well, that was before, like that was before it installed. That was just after it got the boot image. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had that same thing with the network installer. I like the network installer.

It's a neat option. Ultimately for me, because I was on the Starlink connection in the evening, I just went with the offline installer and that went a lot faster. So it depends on your connection. Yeah, already a solid installation experience. They certainly know their way around a grub configuration file. Let me just say that. I appreciate a nice grub setup, even if I don't usually install grub on a system I'd craft for

myself. But it's been really nice. And then you and I, we've been playing a bit with the various package installation options. I don't know if you've noticed, but like Modern Discover and Flatpak, I don't hate using it anymore. It's actually, it's not like for no reason way slower than doing it on the command line. You get feedback about what steps, parts of the process it's doing. Yes.

I haven't installed any Flatpaks on the command line this whole time and that's a first for me. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I want to talk about uh some tooling around package management that i think does take suce to the next level but brent you you had to first of all you had to get out of your current pop install and then you also took the route of a little bit

of ansible to make all of this work so tell us about your setup journey for a bit well i think chris you have come to know that I hate setting up a new install. Yeah. Meanwhile, I like, I'll just do it all the time. I'll do it a couple of times a night just for fun. Yeah. And I don't think it's because I'm, well, you'll tell me your opinion, but I was going to say, I don't think it's because I'm bad at it. Maybe I am. But I got reminded this time around coming back to Plasma that I think it's just the Plasma allows me to

have so many customizations that I'm like, no, no, no, I want this this way. Oh, no, no, I want this other thing this other way. And being on Pop!OS for a while, it reminded me that you just don't have that option for a lot of those customizations. So coming back to Plasma and having a new install, I thought this is a good opportunity for me to take what we've been talking about all year about declarative configurations and try to use some of those concepts for my installs going forward. So I've tried to, every time I do an install, to do it in such a way that it'll be less painful the next time I do it. So for instance, when I got the dev one, if you remember, I did do a bunch of installations via some Ansible. Nice. Yeah. because the Ansible templates that I was working with were app-specific.

But our friend Drew, who's an expert at Ansible, just reminded me, hey, you could just change that little apt word in all of your declarative files there and just switch it to package, and it'll just figure out which package manager is on your system and do everything for you. Sure enough, that was super smooth, and it worked wonderfully. And I've got to say, the work I put into crafting some Ansible months ago has just totally paid off. So installing most of the applications I needed worked wonderfully. There were one or two that had like some name changes in the package manager, but for the most part, it went super smooth and seemed a lot faster compared to using it with apt so i'm not sure that's not very scientific

but that's how it felt i mean i'm just a zipper fan you know yes yes all right let's talk about zipper for a second why aren't all package management tools this good it starts with when it lists the packages that need to be updated it changes the color of the first letter of each package to green so you can easily scan it and and just it just pulls the information faster your brain can just read it faster and then it displays results super intelligently as it's installing and then when it's done and you guys know i i sent you guys a screenshot i was impressed by this is it's installing. And then when it's done and you guys know, I, I was sent you guys a screenshot. I was impressed by this is it's like, Hey,

when I was installing a package, had a notification for you. But since that was like a thousand lines up, I went ahead and saved all of the package installation notifications for you. And I'll just print them here at the very end of everything. And so this package wanted you to know this and this package wanted you to know that. And I just sat there like, that's so brilliant.

You can tell that there's been a lot of tweaks and tunes and customizations and stuff figured out by a lot of active administrators out there who've wanted a system that works really well. And to Brent's point, it's fast, too. Yeah. Chris, to echo what you're saying, I ran into an issue with one of my repositories that I guess had a signing issue with it. I think it's since just solved itself. And that's the rolling way, I believe. But I found that I ran into that issue and there was some red text, which was like, oh yeah, something's immediately wrong. You got to pay attention. But it was the descriptions of what went wrong and why that was important and how to solve it. And it's strong suggestions that I probably shouldn't pay attention to or probably shouldn't install this. Imagine if Linus had gotten a good clear prompt like that when they were reviewing Linux on their clown show.

they were reviewing Linux on their clown show, and then maybe he would have paid two seconds of attention to the command output and wouldn't have forked his whole system, right? That's a great point. Who knows? NorCalGeek in the Matrix chat says there's also the ability to detect the fastest mirror and use that one to do a little testing.

That's really nice. Always appreciated, right? But while we're in the package corner here for a moment, we got a couple of suggestions on some tooling from the audience that takes the SUSE packaging, in my opinion, to Arch levels. You know, or in that range, right? And one of them is ZYP, Z-Y-P. And the other one, was it O-B-I? O-P-I.

O-P-I, right. I wanted it to be OBI, but it's OPI. You can only set up an alias, my friend. Those are essentially like what? A front end to the build service, a front end to the actual package repos, and a front end to Flathub, I think. And so you can search across all three of those resources. And the build service is a significant resource, so it's Flathub, obviously, and get your app. So say you want Slack or Telegram.

And Wes, you were pointing out, this is great for apps like VS Code, where maybe you're totally fine with a flat pack for some stuff, but VS Code, it's pretty nice to have that natively installed. Yeah, you know, I might be setting up a bunch of, like, runtimes or other custom tooling I want VS Code to access, and if it's, like like my trusted editor, I probably want it touching all the bits of my file systems anyway. So for the stuff that doesn't fit in Flatpak, it's nice if you have easy access to like modern up-to-date stuff, which I mean, you get on, like you say, like a system like Arch, but can sometimes be a pain on other distributions.

Yeah. And Brent, I like your idea about applying Ansible to get some of those Nix-like benefits to SUSE. And so that's great to hear that worked. I know not everything worked, so that's what we're going to touch on next. Bitwarden.com slash Linux. Go there right now to get started for free as an individual or a free trial of the Teams plan too, which is very powerful and integrates Slick into your system. Bitwarden is the community's choice for managing your secrets, your sensitive info, things like your passwords, your two-factor codes, your long authentication strings. I have some apps that basically have like passphrases or a series of like letters and numbers that I need to keep track of. Bitwarden is great for all of that.

And Bitwarden is open source. It's trusted by millions of individuals, teams, and organizations in the community. It's what Wes and I use to manage our passwords. Wes adopted it just a little bit before I did. I've been a happy user though for a couple of years. And one of the things that I like about Bitwarden is they just have been improving the product. They started with something that's really safe, secure, and obvious. Local encryption for your password vault that automatically fills into websites and apps. So that way you can use secure passwords across your websites, your applications, your mobile devices. But then they built on top of that, right? So now they have username generator and they also have email generator too, which works with a growing list of email relay providers. So you can have a unique username, a unique email address, and a unique password for every site, service, and app that you use.

That's probably one of the number one things you can do online. And Bitward just keeps rolling up features like password protected and encrypted export, DuckDuckGo integration for email alias. And I've mentioned this before, but I know it really matters to you guys. FastMail alias generation. If you use FastMail today, and I know a lot of you do, that's just built in now. And you can generate a FastMail alias along with a unique username, along with unique password. It's so great. They just keep making it better. And it's probably just beyond anything else, the tool I need to just make this possible. I reloaded a machine a couple of times this week

to try out OpenSUSE. Bitwarden as a Flatpak makes that process so simple. And with OpenSUSE, Flatpak supports built-in already. So I just Flatpak install the Bitwarden app. Then I start logging into my apps, I log into my web browser, and I'm just pretty much within 10 minutes, I'm up and running on everything. It really makes that process smooth and secure. I just love it. I think you will too. And if you know somebody out there that could,

or maybe it's a team, if you know a team too, that could really just do a little bit better at this, send them to bitwarden.com slash Linux as well. Go try it out, support the show. You're going to love it. Bitwarden.com slash Linux as well. Go try it out. Support the show. You're going to love it. Bitwarden.com slash Linux. I've got to admit, I'm pretty curious.

Brent's been trapped, I suppose, in the GTK world for a while now. And I know I'm personally really enjoying this fresh modern Plasma. What do you think about it, Brent? I really enjoyed it. And then I was like, geez, how how fresh is this i'm seeing all sorts of new features and so i noticed this uh at least on my system 5.26.4 which feels pretty darn fresh and i have to say plasma itself this is probably my best plasma experience of the year i'm wow and that's no small thing you know i've been struggling on various distributions with their plasma installations.

And this one's been so far, really, really, really, really good. I'm very relieved to hear that. I, I was beginning to worry that maybe new plasma wasn't going to work out so

well for you and that we needed to kind of go back in time. And that was going to be trickier and trickier to pull off you know you do that too much and you end up on an xfce so you got to be careful but i'm glad to hear that the freshest and latest because that is basically pretty close to what you're going to get on any modern distro the to the absolute freshest i mean that's great 526 4 yes and they've been such solid releases too so i'm i've been really happy with them i know i know you were having some trouble so i'm just really relieved to hear that it is nice but i know there was some stuff that that wasn't you know i know we all had our run-ins with yast and things like

that so okay let's focus on that for just a bit we gotta gotta talk about that too you know my first like couple hours using open sus, I was reflecting on how you both joke that I keep finding bugs in absolutely everything and I hadn't found really anything significant. Well, okay. Actually, that's not quite true. I also, Wes, tried the net installer and that worked fine for me, except there was this weird issue where I ran into where it had you configuring the network.

For some reason, the five gigahertz network configuration just wouldn't work at all yeah despite a known you know known good network known good password and those being identical to my 2.5 gigahertz network that worked perfectly fine so that seems like a little trip up so if someone's having a hard time with that that's a little tip i couldn't quite decide if i should be impressed that the net installer for as tiny as it does has like wireless support at all yeah or like be like well it was a little it was like kind of the bare minimum right because you have to like manually type the ssid in there's no like menu that auto scans so if like if so if wire if doing it wirelessly is really important and you can spare the bandwidth to the full one. Yeah, but it is nice.

It's an anchors interface at least. And, you know, it asks for the SSID and it asks for the password or if it has a password. And then it drops to the command line again. And I'm always surprised at how long it seems to get to take to get a DHCP IP. Like in my world, that happens instantaneously, but it sits there for like a long time. And you're like, is it going to work? And then it finally goes. And I definitely thought it was me.

So I tried it about five times, you know, with rebooting and trying again and like reading because you have to input the SSID, you know, manually and the password. So I read it like four or five times. I'm like, no, this is correct. It's just not working. Yeah. I eventually just downloaded the entire image and scrapped the net installer. That's what I did too. You know, I had to keep downloading the same stuff over and over. So I was like, no, no, no, I'm just going to download this once. I thought this was going to be the way to go. But so then the install

went great. And I did run into an issue of, because I had pop installed on this computer, it had defaulted to the pop UEFI entry. So on my very first boot after install, it just couldn't boot the system. And that was an unfortunate sort of user experience. I recognized the issue and got some help from one of our listeners, Team Linux 01, who said, oh, yeah, just use G disk. It's a Z option and just like scrap all of your GPT data on that disk. And that totally worked. And then it worked perfectly fine. So a little bit of a hiccup there, but it was pretty easy to get past it.

Plus, you get that fun feeling of, you know, really, really wiping your disk. Yeah, it's a real clean start i hesitated and i don't know why because i had already cleared everything off one time so i didn't anyways yeah i open seuss is the only distro i've had an issue on my dev one where it updates the uefi stuff on my laptop but the laptop's still booting from the last os's in entry as well and then i have to hit the um you know like choose boot options f9 on the dev1 and select the second entry which looks almost identical to the first entry and then that loads the susa bootloader and i imagine that's probably something yes can help me solve but i just haven't needed to yet because

i don't reboot too often but it's probably something Yass can help me solve, but I just haven't needed to yet because I don't reboot too often. But it's probably something I'll try to get around to fixing. It's almost like a security feature in a way. You know, like I'm Biff and you got to know just how to start my car. That's right. That's how it works with my laptop. There were some other things that I ran into I think are fairly minor. One of them was I installed GNOME boxes because I have a bunch of VMs from that GNOME install that I ran into, I think are fairly minor. Uh, one of them was I installed GNOME boxes

because I have a bunch of VMs from, you know, that GNOME install that I have. And that's been a great application for me. Super simple to use. It seems when I launch it from the menu, it just sort of fails, gives a launching GNOME boxes failed little notification. Uh, and it's a, probably a problem that Wes can help me with but it seems that GNOME boxes didn't provide a dot service file or at least that's the notification in the error message so I gotta dig into that one a little bit it didn't prevent me from using GNOME boxes because you know terminals are amazing and I could just boot it from the terminal and everything worked fine that's a small little thing I think it's something worth noting maybe there's a you

know a little bug issue that I could provide to the developers just to have a look at that one. I'm sure it's an easy fix. Also notice KDE Connect isn't working for me. So I don't know if you, each of you had a chance to try that. I actually am not a big KDE Connect user. I was early on, but I generally have tried to solve it through syncing and I don't want my phone notifications on my desktop. So I just have opted out. I hardly want them on my phone. But now, yeah, right.

Exactly. But now that I'm an Android user again, guys, you know, I don't know if you knew that, by the way. But I kind of could and should. I feel like I should try it. It's been a while since I've used it, like, in any meaningful way. Yeah. I use it quite a bit for media controls. My brother's got a laptop running his TV, and we use it constantly to do from-the-couch navigation on the computer, and that's been great.

But also just when I'm in the kitchen and I want to skip to the next song or something, that's been working. Because you're playing the content from the computer, but you're controlling it with the phone, or vice versa? Vice versa, yeah. It works great for that little stuff, I find. I did get a little reminder today as we were setting up for the stream that you're in a different little branch of the Linux tree.

Yes. And so I was getting the software we use to control and talk to the mixer, which just, you know, they have a Linux app. Of course, it expects some lib curl, but compiled with GNU TLS. Now some, you know, just sim linking to my regular libcurl, which was already installed,

seems to be working just fine. And I suppose I'm kind of used to, like, the NixOS world of maybe using Steam Run or, you know, something like that to, like, make things happy about various libraries. But it is funny. It seems to be working just fine, but not too many of those, actually. I've always run into that with Seuss.

And when I say always, I mean for like 12 years, just like 13 years of experience. I've always run into that, just little weird things, and it's never been a big deal, but it just happens. And admittedly, me downloading rando Linux executables from the internet is A, not something I do a lot, and B, not a great pattern in general. So that it doesn't just immediately work, I think, could be easily forgiven. Crashmaster also suggested that we check out Tumbleweed CLI and TWUps. Oh. Yeah, a couple of tools. More fun things to play with.

So I'm definitely going to check that out after the show. I'm really feeling pretty good about Tumbleweed as the family OS, potentially, with Plasma. Because again, I think Plasma doesn't get a lot of love in other distros where it gets some love here. It's a good experience. And I think Plasma also lends itself well to a rolling distro because it handles those settings rolling changes pretty well, too. I just want to quickly mention Crashmaster wrote that to us last year and we didn't quite touch on it, but somehow I kept this. I had a little OpenSUSE note and I had that tucked away in there.

So Crashmaster, a year later, thanks for all the tips. Ah, that's great. I noticed in general, even more, I would say passion for open sews from our audience when we did this a year ago i would say the signal is even stronger this time like we started talking about it on the show and it was almost to overwhelming levels you know like it was a lot it was a lot strong signal are you seeing any like lizard meddling in our tuxes this year i don't know i haven't checked the timing's right though it is those lizards i don't know man tuxes.party but i don't know well brent so are you sticking are you sticking with it is this uh is this your new home have we found the uh

the forever distro for brent well i think as a conclusion we can at least say i am suffering less and i'm excited. You know, I was playing with ButterFS snapshotting and sending and receiving, which is very exciting. And as you know, I was excited to have those rollback features as well. So that feeling is still there from a year ago. And I've been playing with some dot file managers and stuff, too. So I think it might be here to stay. And I got to say say it's nice to be

back on plasma we should we should get him to try a rollback have you tried to roll back yet i could be i almost did this morning and then i thought it's show day i probably shouldn't do the chris thing i don't roll back i roll forward on the show day no you know i think you ought to stick with it because there might be a spokesperson role here for you because I think you nailed it there. OpenSUSE. Suffer a little less. And now it is time for Le Boost. Deleted boosts in with a thousand sats. Kicking off the Never Have I Ever series.

From my Never Have I Ever, Never Have I Ever installed Arch. Okay. That's a brave thing to admit in the crowd, and I bet a lot of people have. I think we should keep this going. Send your confessions into us, and we will absolve you of them. You guys have a Never Have I Ever

that's on the top of your mind for Linux? I've got two of them. Okay. Go for it, Brent. Here's one. I ever that's on the top of your mind for Linux? I've got two of them. Okay. Go for it, Brent. Here's one. I'll just jump on this one. Never have I ever installed proper Arch. Oh, okay.

Whoa. As you both know, I lived on Entergos for a long time and really loved it until I broke everything. But also to add to that, never have I ever installed Gentoo from scratch. Yeah, it's been a while, but I have. I am not trying to be a while, but I have. I am not trying to be this guy, but I really can't think of anything. I'm struggling here. We have some homework to do.

Well, maybe people will boost in theirs because I'd like to get this rolling. I think this could be a lot of fun. This could be a good boost. So let us know what have you never done? Never have I ever what in Linux? And maybe some of them will be true for us too. I know there must be some, right? There must be something i'm really

racking my head though i'm like thinking anything with nfs anything with ldap i'm thinking like i'm just going through like the list um all right all right that's a good one deleted good we accept your confession and uh no judgment here i think it may also be deleted deletedHH-32 boosts in with 3,000 sets. Listening to 475 and Brent's battle with Plasma, I empathized with him. I love Plasma and have been a KDE fan since the early 2000s. However, because I have NVIDIA cards most of the time, I've moved to Genome on everything but my Steam Deck. Keep it together, Chris!

However, because I have Nvidia cards most of the time, I've moved to Genome on... Sorry, go ahead. When you read it, it's just so funny! Absurd. Absurd.

Absurd, I say. I've moved to Genome on everything but my Steam Deck. This is my... You've broken me. You've broken me, sir. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right.

Reset. Oh, no. I broke my... I'm laughing so hard I broke my... There it goes. Good. All right. So funny.

So funny. Oh, God. However, because I have NVIDIA cards most of the time, I've moved to Juno on everything but my Steam Deck. This is my compromise to continue using Linux because I love Linux and hate the proprietary alternatives. We made it. Did we?

Is that it? Is that it? Okay. Okay, good. Thank you. I mean, I guess I'm glad to hear, BHH, that you're sticking with Linux. You know, I'm sorry that Plasma can be frustrating. I get that. I mean, it's moved a lot. There's a lot to like, but I can see how, you know, sometimes things break. And I can say with this fresh install that I have here,

at least to this date, this has been a great experience compared to the last few months. So I would say keep trying. B&JH Brent wants you to join us on Tumbleweed. How about that? Come on over to the tumble side. All right. We got a double boost from Curious Carnivore starting with 10,000 sets. Hey guys, the last live show sounded like it would have been a fun first one to join it. Sundays are a bit crazy for me typically, but one of these days I'll be there. Don't worry, we'll be here whenever you can make it. We get it. Anyway, on the desktop side of things, I feel similar to Brent. While the exploration and experimentation is what originally led me

to look into Linux, what I need at the end of the day is a system that I know I can rely on in a pinch when needed. Yeah, yeah. I think I've taken to being a fancy boy and having two laptops at home now. Dev 1 is kind of like the machine I'm playing around with and playing video games on. And then I just got the ThinkPad. It's on running NixOS.

It's a real basic install and i generally leave it plugged in or around 80 battery charge and it's just kind of there if i needed to crack it open and get to work it's not always the one i go to but it's nice having like a good solid stable system and then having another one i can tinker with because i am an enthusiast and i do want to play with this stuff sometimes you You need an outlet. Yeah, yeah. Well, we got a little more details from old Curious Convor here with 11,000 sats. After going in way over my head with Arch and Nix, I decided to install Ubuntu. Really because it's the distro I had heard the most about, and it sounded like it was stable.

So far, I've really enjoyed it, though. I feel like I'm missing that experimentation side of things. I thought about virtualization, but wasn't sure if that was a great option. I haven't heard much about it so far within the community. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places, and maybe I should just buy a second computer? Or maybe, you know, an SBC? There you go. Get the Odroid and tinker with that i think that's a great machine for that sort of project and it's not a ton of money it's you know not going to break the bank there's also you know you can always um do a boot if you're comfortable with that kind of thing sure if you go really hard on the experimentation maybe uh you could break your

bootloader but just keep a recovery cd or usb cd? Do you even have a CD drive? One of those recovery USBs around it. Probably be just fine. And you know what? Nothing wrong with a VM for experimentation too. We should be proud. Linux virtualizes just great these days. Yeah. Night of the old code booze in with a row of ducks.

Long time listener, first time booster. The pronunciation debate is hilarious. We have a big issue in the industry. How does one reconcile pseudo as sudo and gif as gif? If it's super user do, then it's graphics interchange format. Gif, no? Yeah, there you go. I mean, that's sound logic.

It is a funny thing. And I know it's got to be bugging some people that we've talked about it because people get really worked up about this kind of stuff. But language is a funny thing as humans do. So far, I don't think we've perfected it. Martin de Beer.

Martin de Beer. De Beer. Martin de Beer boosts in with 22,000 sats. This old duck still got it. Hi, Chris, Wes, and Brent. About OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, I heard your story about not updating for a year. What I've done is I've separated out my root directory with butterfs, my home directory, usually xfs or x4.

I wonder why. And my swap and my EFI boot partitions. So he separates all those out is what he's saying. Then he goes on to say, if you can't get the update to work, which I actually haven't experienced yet, you could just install OpenSUSE Tumbleweed fresh from the USB installer. You start fresh, but you keep all your settings as they're stored in that separate home directory.

If you have any questions, I'm on Fostodont at Foss Adventures. I like this idea of separating out the data, and that's one of the things I appreciate about Seuss is it actually is more proactive about that than most distros are, most any distro today. This used to be more of a thing back in the day to separate your home out. Some of us maybe even had dedicated hard drives for our home partition. Oh, yeah.

You know, and it's nice that Seuss does that. But I think that's something, Brent, you probably are already doing, I would imagine, different partition for your home directories than for your root partition. I used to do it for this very reason. But then I would always run into the issue of like wanting the space that was on the other partition for a particular reason, especially when SSDs were, you know, much smaller for the price these days, maybe less of an issue. But I will say I did appreciate, and it stalled me for a moment that that option was so easy in the OpenSUSE installer. It was just a checkbox that said, would you like us to make a separate

home partition for you? And I decided, I actually checked the box and I sat there thinking a minute and I thought, well, actually, I think I could do this with ButterFS snapshots instead. I could just set up the home partition to be its own sub volume and then just kind of do it that way instead. Yeah, it looks like by default, I got var, user local, serve, root, opt, home, and some boot grub stuff here. All is Butterfest subvolumes just out of the box. Well, there you go. It's done for me already. Yeah, so both Fedora and OpenSUSE do this, where the home is a separate subvolume

so that you can reinstall while keeping your home data. While it's not as easy to trigger in Anaconda, you can totally do it. Both YAST and Anaconda support nuke and paving your root sub-volume, and basically your OS volumes, while preserving your user data volume. It's just

in both installers, it's not quite as exposed as it should be. YAST makes it a little easier. I think they have a checkbox if you go into the advanced settings of like, don't wipe my home subvolume when I'm reinstalling. you can just go into the partitioner and say wipe everything, but leave the

home subvolume alone, create a new root subvolume, and then install again. I do this pretty often. It actually was one of the earliest reasons for me to use ButterFS on my Fedora machines was because then I didn't have to worry about space contention, which is a common problem when you have a separate partition entirely for home. And I can still have this flexibility. And I used to use it a lot, especially when I was doing my early Plasma Wayland development a couple years ago, where I had to nuke and pave over and over again. I was trying different things.

Being able to keep my home directory around was super useful and very handy. Nail coming in hot with the real-time follow-up. That's great. Bearded Tech boosted in with 2,222 sats of Row of Ducks. A vote for OpenZoo's a tumbleweed, but you don't have to update daily. Okay, that's a good tip because I was feeling like why I'd have to do the Arch thing again. I've been using Tumbleweed as my daily driver since the day you did a 180 with Nix. I now run Rockstar, a Leap-based NAS,

a Tumbleweed transactional server running services in containers, Tumbleweed on WSL for fun while I'm gaming on Windows, and Tumbleweed on my laptop. And all this from a guy who has a Debian tattoo. Gecko is coming to my right shoulder next month. Oh, wow. That's great, Bearded Tech.

Bearded Tech's up in the quiet listening in the mumble. We see you. Yeah, we see you. Thank you for the boost. Bearded Tech uh had a boost that we read earlier in the pre-show because it was uh about using no uh no lookster i think it is to set up a channel with us which was super neat and so he has a channel now coming into jb

which is uh pretty fancy okay so what um so brentley you're off the hook you don't have to update daily i i'm not going to i think i'm probably going about, you know, on average I'll probably do once a week, and then if I end up putting it on Dylan's machine, I imagine once a month, maybe a couple times a month. And I'm expecting that to be fine. I mean, hey, I waited a whole year once and it was fine. Okay, all right. Just practice using those.

Well, I waited a whole year once and then it wasn't fine. Yeah. That's why we got to practice using those snapshots now. Yeah, he's got a good point. He's got a good point, Brent. Also, admittedly, I don't use Zipper on my OpenSUSE systems. I use DNF instead. So that has some differences in solution solving.

Don't give Brent any ideas. Daja boosted in with 4747 sats. Lizard Brent would make for a really good mascot, or since we already have one, maybe some merch? I know I boosted in a couple weeks ago talking up Sid. Gotta love updates every six-ish hours. But OpenSUSO was my first love back in 2011 when I got sick of Windows during my freshman year,

and they really do Plasma well. Seems like you guys might be into something with Lizard Brent. I think we are onto something. Lizard Brent could be, well, first of all, he could compete with the Golden Dragon for show mascot, so we could have a battle. Could be a good holiday special. Or, you know, maybe just a friendly Brent.

What we need is to get stable diffusion to take a Brent picture and a Lizard picture and make us one. Morph those together, please. Yes. I think it's so. Sosilis boosted in with some lead sets. I'm totally down with the cold storage on Mars idea.

I can totally see this as another archival solution along the lines of S3 Glacier. AWS already has Snowball and Snowmobile. Why not Comet, which should ship exabytes of high density data to Mars or to the moon via Blue Origin, perhaps? I could see this happening in the next five to 10 years since data retrieval would be a little harder, not to mention expensive, but this is a permanent archival data anyways, right? Right. I mean, I could really honestly be interested in something like this if it was reasonable to transmit it. I mean, especially if you're trying to store something for generations. I think about this an odd amount.

I think about how the normies out there are totally unprepared for the fact that so many things that they capture digitally are just going to fade away. There's no box of old photos in the attic, right? Yeah. And, you know, I was working on an old laptop for my wife and the logos that she wanted for her business were just on that laptop. Photos like from an old digital camera that she had at that time were just on that laptop and she doesn't have them anywhere else because it's just there isn't really been anything to set up for that. And we kind of just got into this digital pictures, digital documents, digital information, digital currencies without really solving our data permanence. And something like this would be a pretty big step see but my question becomes why some other celestial body when you could just like dig a really big hole or have some kind of underground bunker that you shove this stuff

into i mean you know the cool factor probably there's just the the aspect of getting it off the earth right so you're like you're really backed up right i mean you might not be there to restore it but when the aliens come and, you know, figure out what happened, you know, they'll have access to my photos. Or, I mean, you know, the LUP, you know, LUP Historical Archive, so they can learn something about the better parts of our society. Right. Right. I mean, somebody's got to tell them about Linux. Somebody has to. True Grints boosts in with 1701 sets. Make it so. Enterprise sets. Make it so. Enterprise sets.

In regards to your Maps and Waze situation, why not do a car phone with Graphene and Waze and sign up for a brand new account using Bill Wharton's username generator? As you say, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That could be interesting. I mean, I'm wondering if some of the issues I'm having with Waze are because of Graphene OS. Then I'd also need a data line. So there's that. I mean, even if I tethered it issues I'm having with Waze are because of graphing OS. And I'd also need a data line. So there's that.

I mean, even if I tethered it, then this adds a little bit of complexity. Yeah, so I checked this week. And I used my iPhone for 12 minutes this week. And six of those were Waze. And six of them were the settings. So maybe I was checking something in the settings. Which is incredible, you know. That's pretty amazing. Yeah.

You're doing good over there. Pretty cold. And the Waze thing, that is really still tough. Like, there was some bad traffic this weekend. And I fired up Waze because I needed to decide before I got too far down the freeway if I needed to take a back route. And I ended up needing to take a back route. You know, Magic Earth didn't have the accident. It't had that quite so real time yeah and way as soon as i pulled it up it had it and so that's you know there's that so that's been tricky for me

and i'm not sure if i think i'd have to have a non-graphing device or maybe it's just you know it's hard to say maybe ways is just a little crappy on the pixel 7 could be that too is anything changing since they were like merging, merging teams, right? Isn't there some update there? It's pretty new, but maybe there'll be some updates. I'll check it out from time to time. Or, like, will Waze be sunset and you can just use Google Maps? Does that work a little better on graphene?

Yes, but then I'm using Google Maps. You know, it's like, it's tricky. It's tricky. So I'm not totally sure yet, True Grits. But I appreciate the suggestion. I'm not totally sure yet, True Grits. But I appreciate the suggestion. I'm not totally opposed to the Carphone idea. Well, True Grits boosts continue with $17.02. Sads.

Make it so. I'm sad to see Patreon go, though I understand why. I haven't used it in a while, having switched to the Jupiter Party subscription a while ago. Thank you. I'm starting to change my mind, though, on the members' feeds being boost-enabled. On one hand, it would be nice to stream sats while I'm listening. But on the other hand, I want to keep this show at the top of the fountain list, and splitting the feeds might cause this one to lower in the rank.

I'm surprised none of us had thought of that. Some strategic thinking right job true kids yeah yeah and it's true because like it's obviously the baller boosts are are really putting us at the top of the charts but honestly it's all it's all of the accumulative boosting too it it all counts and if we did start to diffuse that across feeds that would suck another way to look at it is we could have two linux unplugs at the top. Maybe. Maybe. I wonder too if it isn't, because here's the other problem, is

not everybody sticks with a new podcast app when they switch. Maybe they decide to go back to Podcast Addict or Pocket Cast or whatever, or AntennaPod or whatever. And so I wonder if the route for the members isn't to point them to something like Albi and then going to the Podcast Index and just boosting from the Podcast Index website yeah okay or clicking the lightning bolt

on our podverse player and boosting from there using the web and something like albie because you can pretty easily go from strike to albie or cash app to albie in a few seconds and albie's a good group you know um so i'm not sure true grits that's a good point one thing i still want to do for the members regardless is get them like a matrix chat room. So they basically have a, like a boost bat line into the show, but I'm just trying to think through like the semantics of how I want that to work. If I want a channel per show or just one channel for the members and how we're

going to do access. And so we, yes, we're still pondering all of that. So there's still things in the works. We will soon have control of our own feed. So we'll be able to lay in some of those other podcasting 2.0 features into the members feed. Even if it isn't boost, it could be transcripts. It could be the host information that we can put in. There's a lot of other aspects of the namespace that we could add for the members. And so we are going to work on that regardless, but something to think about grits. Thank you.

I have an idea in that regard. I wonder if the Podcasting 2.0 feature set could include something like a member's feed. I don't see why that wouldn't be possible in the future. Maybe it already is, and I don't know. True Grits continues. I've created a monster with Genome. And to the community, I say, no regrets. No regrets. No regrets.

And that was 1703 sets. And for 1704 in this final round of boosts. In a reply to the after-show discussion last time, Chris, I've been listening for a long time. Sometime shortly after Matt Hartley joined Lass as the main co-host. When you recommend something, I trust it. Bitcoin was an obvious one i just needed the lightning nudge you're fantastic at what you do and you know linux you don't gotta read all that stop i do like chris fisher 2024 i was gonna say that part i could i could but thank you true grits

uh you're very very generous josh the techie boosted with a thousand sats and said that's it guys that's it i just purchased a pixel 4a 5g and i'm going in i'm going to look into calyx os or graphing os as an alternative rom instead of going stock android all right looking forward to this experiment of experiment of mine and i'm excited to hear how your iphone to graphing os experience continues to evolve as time goes on blake t. Collin boosts in with 12,345 sats. GPSlogger.app has the ability to trust self-signed TLS certs on Android. I use this tool in conjunction with a custom Flask application to create my own quasi-find-my-friends app without Google or Apple.

Oh, cool. That is definitely something I need to solve sooner than later. It's bugging me not having that. I'm surprised that didn't come up on the iPhone because I fired up the iPhone a couple of times, but I just was probably pretty quick about it. I try to be quick now that I know I'm tracking my time. If I use it, I'm like,

just only what I need. And even if somebody messages me, I put the iPhone down and I pick up the conversation on the Pixel. I totally do. And you you know what works for me all right we got 25 000 sats from bitcoin lizard uh he writes the recent discussion related to graphing os and next cloud has me thinking i use graphing myself but like chris my wife and kids cringe at the idea of me taking away their iphones yep a step improvement would be not syncing to Apple servers. So is NextCloud a suitable replacement for iCloud photo backup?

The photo backup, and I would not necessarily be able to say this on iPhone, so I'd have to test it, but the photo backup on Android has been flawless. It runs in the background really reliably. I would imagine to make that as flawless on iPhone, you'd probably want to launch the NextCloud app once every 24 hours or so. in the background really reliably. I would imagine to make that as flawless on iPhone, you'd probably want to launch the NextCloud app once every 24 hours or something. That's my thinking there. I'm not totally positive.

One thing that might be easier, Lizard, if you've got a Mac in the mix and you're syncing your photos to the Mac, maybe you sync them with their backend plumbing, you upload them to Next xcloud and then every so often you go and clear them out of icloud or something i don't know i'd be curious to know if anybody else has better suggestions zach attack comes in with 10 000 sats good show looking forward to the graphene os adventure well thank you zach attack and then sir alex gates the podcasting 2.0

consultant comes in with 10 000 sats talking about how I'm running more applications in the background, so I think I might be using more battery life because the Play services, one of the things it does is coalesces and consolidates all the notification stuff. And it's like one demon in the background instead of six or seven apps. But Alex writes, OpenTCP connections running in the background by default are normally very efficient. Conversations like an Android XMPP client prove this can be done extremely well in a battery efficient manner. The problem is, though, many background socket notification services aren't well optimized, likely because of a lack of user feedback caused by users thinking it can't be improved.

I've been researching this exact topic for something I'm working on for Podcasting 2.0. Fascinating. I would like to know more. George R. Binks comes in with 7,777 sats. Someone should make a Kindle-like phone with an e-ink display. Then we could have Graphene OS all that and call it the Graphene Paper. That would be a good product. I'd try it, yeah. It would be amazing if the Graphene OS project could get to the the Graphene Paper. That would be a good product. I'd try it, yeah.

It would be amazing if the Graphene OS project could get to the point where they could do something like that. I think you mean the Giraffeine Paper, don't you? I think you're right. And then our last boost, RGH Vidberg, or Vidberg, boosted in with 222 sets. And it is their very first boost. Here's some baby ducks. Well,

thank you very much. Thank you everybody. Gene Bean, who sent in some leet sats a couple of times and recommended backblaze for 12 Linux, who loves the longer shows and Ubuntu mate 1024 from Hydra man, who had some DNS issues that we helped solve. Bearded tech came in with some hot traffic tips this week. So lots of support from Bearded Tech.

The Buso 2000 Sats on asking for manual, requesting an annual option for Jupiter Party members. Oh, yeah. I will look into that. That is definitely something I should look into.

Jupiter Party monthly membership is on sale right now if you use the promo code 2022. Take two bucks off for the lifetime. I think we should also remind listeners that there's a gift option at Jupiter Party. So don't forget that. Seems kind of timely. And Golden Dragon, 2022 take two bucks off for the lifetime. I think we should also remind listeners that there's a gift option at Jupiter to a party.

So don't forget that seems kind of timely and golden dragon. The show mascot came in with a row of ducks saying he recently gave next OS a try and liked it. If you'd like to send as a boost into that show, go to new podcast, apps.com and upgrade, go get like fountain or pod verse pod verse has a brand new beta out. Now has car play support you might have

to delete and reinstall the app for this to work it's you know it's very early testing it hasn't been fully optimized yet were they waiting for you to get off the platform i know right they're working on they're working on android auto next too but if you'd like to beta test the next podverse we'll have a link to that in the show notes and try out CarPlay. There's a lot of great apps if you're ready to switch to a new open source podcasting app. But if you're not, you can also use the web. I mentioned Albie before. You can go to our website and click the lightning bolt on the player, or you can go to podcast index and search up the episode and show you on a boost. You don't actually have to switch podcast apps either, but there are a bunch of great apps at newpodcastapps. apps.com gentlemen this is going to bring us towards the end so all of us are sticking with

tumbleweed for a bit tumble on i say i want to make clear i think i'm thinking like there could be a real nice relationship between tumbleweed on the desktop for me and i'm still very happy with nix on the server oh yeah i can't really see changing that anytime soon because it's like a whole new way to Linux for me. But I love the flexibility of Tumbleweed on the desktop, a more traditional setup. You know, I can install and run stuff. Very happy with that. It's a nice arrangement,

and I can see using it with family too. So spread a little lizard love this holiday season, friends with family and friends out there. Give them a recommendation. If you'd like more show, remember we do this here show live every single Sunday. Jupyter.tube is where it happens at. Of course, the Mumble Room is open.

Our Matrix Room's rolling. All of that is on our brand new community-built website at jupyterbroadcasting.com. You heard us mention the new de-installer. There's a lot of other stuff we talked about in Linux Action News, including some solid kernel corner updates. And the progress on getting Linux working

on the Apple Silicon is moving forward. All of that, linuxactionnews.com. If you're missing that, you're missing out on a big chunk of what's going on. Links to what we talked about today, linuxunplugged.com slash 488. Thank you to our members and thank you to everybody who downloads the show.

And we'll see you right back here next Sunday. Thank you.