LINUX Unplugged - 510: Thinking in Decades

Episode Date: May 14, 2023

The push for free software takes years, maybe even generations. Brent gets the inside story from the Free Software Foundation Europe. Special Guest: Matthias Kirschner.

Well, the folks at Valve are taking it pretty well that Asus has launched the ROG Ally, and they're excited to see another portable Steam-focused gaming device launch. And I'm grumpy because it runs Windows. Did you guys see this? Yeah, it does look kind of shiny, but Windows... I have seen some efforts on Twitter and other places to, you know, folks who think they're going to pick one up just to try and get some version of Linux running on it. So I have a little hope that perhaps someday.

It's so incredible how each one of these companies has to learn the lesson the hard way. You know what I mean? Like, how long until you get screwed by the Microsoft store or by the Google Store or by the Apple Store? How long until you realize that you should have a direct relationship with your customer and the way to do that is to own the platform and the way to do that is to use Linux? Each one of these companies has to figure this out the hard way? I wonder, though, you know, Asus does have a relationship with Microsoft, right, from shipping products together for years.

And I wonder, maybe not all companies have sort of the one wherewithal that you're saying, but just the, like, to take on, even though you can get a Linux base, like, you still got to probably do some sorts of product work to customize that and get it working with what you want. But if you're making a device that is Game Pass focused, like the ROG Ally seems to be, Game Pass is an H.264 stream with AAC audio. So you're looking at a lot of different problems out there. If you're really just trying to go all in on Game Pass, it just seems like an excessive overkill to include Windows.

That was one of my immediate thoughts was like, okay, well, cool, great, but I don't want to deal with Windows Update on my handheld gaming device. No, that sounds terrible. Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. My name is Wes.

And my name is Brent. Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on this week's episode of the Unplugged program, we return to Berlin and Brent is sitting down with the Free Software Foundation Europe's president, and we're going to explore the very best bits of their conversation. It was fascinating. And then we'll round out the show with some picks, some boosts, and a lot more. So before we go any further, let's say good morning to Tailscale. Tailscale.com. It's a mesh VPN protected and built around WireGuard.

We love it. It'll change your networking game. So go say good morning and try it on 100 devices for free at Tailscale.com. Good morning. Hello, Tailscale. If you get a chance, tell them the Unplugged program sent you at Tailscale.com. A shout-out to our Mumble Room who is absent this week. Hello, Mumble Room. We miss you guys.

Yeah, we're sorry to be doing this without you. It's not you, it's us. We needed to record a little early. It was a last minute scramble-damble and here we are. I'm just here, I'm thinking we're going to have to title the episode ourselves. Scramble-damble.

I know. No, I don't think that's our Damble. I know. Is it Slit Boom? No, I don't think that's our show title. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. But it is sort of like a different vibe without the mumble room. So I just wanted to give them a shout out anyways. And we'll try to put something together for them on the live stream.

So as you recall, not long ago, Brent was in Berlin. and he's now back, and I believe recovered from the jet lag. I feel recovered now. Yeah, it took a little bit. Like a crazy amount of time. I don't know if that's age or if I just did it wrong. No, I think it's normal when you're coming back this direction. Okay. I think it's known to be pretty rough.

But something we don't really think about, we know of the Free Software Foundation, and we know of them as a U.S. entity, but there is the Free Software Foundation Europe, and they are their own complete organization. And you had a chance to sit down with their president. I did. I got a last-minute invitation from Matthias Kushner, who invited me. He said, I'm going on a trip basically tomorrow, but if you show up at 7 a.m. to the Free Software Foundation Europe's office, I joined the FSFE as an intern,

the first intern at that time. The FSFE didn't have an office yet, so we started in a small one-room apartment at that time. And from there on, I stayed involved as a volunteer. In 2009, I joined as a staffer, full-time staffer, for the FSFE, setting up the Berlin office. And since then, I've been involved in almost all positions in the organization. And yeah, since a few years, I'm now the president

of the organization. As you could tell, Matthias has been around a little while. Right. Those are some credentials there. Yeah. I, you know, he didn't say it, but it sounds like I can say he basically founded that office. It was a postal address when he first joined in Berlin. And now they have some super lovely offices. I wish I could kind of give you a tour of it. It was like, you know, they got history in their architecture over there. And it was really, really nice to be there. I noticed, you know, he was really passionate.

And I was really curious about how that came to be because you know he's dedicated his life to this work for quite a while and he gave me some insights there. What got you involved like what got you interested in this topic personally? I mean at the beginning it was technical problems I encountered so I had one computer at home which was connected to the internet so my father bought me a modem because i asked him to subscribe to more newspapers so i that i can inform myself from different sources he said oh that's got to be too expensive but i read about this internet then you can inform yourself from all over the world and so he bought me a modem probably more

expensive than the subscribing to a newspaper option but yeah so I had a was one of the first ones who had a computer with a modem at home and then I got another computer which they wanted to throw away from a company and I connected those two and both of them had email programs and I want to send an email from one of the computers to another without connecting to the internet and I didn't accomplish that and I complained about that in school and a friend of mine who was way more into computers than I was at the time he told me oh I have something for you and he brought me some cds and some floppies and said with this you can accomplish this and that's how i then started to install my first linux

distribution and a few months later i then also had a mail server and yeah so that was my my intro there and was really great to see that i mean there is no limit you can learn whatever you want you can tinker around you can experiment you can on on the internet on on mailing lists you can ask questions there are so many people who will help you and that that was so great for me and um so we were setting up a local group had installation parties went to other free software events to connect with other people and yeah that was so amazing for me and at one point then I also read some some articles on the GNU.org websites and I realized wow that's very political very a lot of questions about economy so I got interested in those topics and at the point I thought oh there are so many people who help you with the

technical questions but I don't get this political stuff. So that's why I then decided to study public administration science and connect those two topics with each other. And that's then how I also got to learn about the FSFE. There were some Debian developers I knew at the time, and I asked them about where could I do my mandatory internship for the studies. They said, oh, yeah, there is also the FSFE. They have an

office in Germany. They were wrong. It was not an office. It was just an address. But yeah, that's how I got then to know about the FSFE. And when I read the website, I thought, that's exactly what I'm interested in, the connection about technology, society, politics, all of that. And yeah, that's how I got involved and stayed involved since then. He says society, but it's also really current events too. And of course, they play a big role in current events. But what a fascinating intersection.

You have to be somebody who is interested in engaging politically. You have to be somebody who is interested in following the cultural trends and you have to be interested in technology to. You have to be somebody who is interested in following the cultural trends, and you have to be interested in technology to really take that role on. A multimodal expert. That's a handy person to have.

Yeah, and I totally relate to the, Dad, I want to get access to this. Dad, I want this. And Dad being like, all right, we're just going to get you a modem. Similar conversation, but for me, it was Star Trek. It was Star Trek stuff back then. But yeah, he says, all right, we'll just get you a modem.

So I love that that evolved into him discovering the Free Software Foundation. And it's such a new kind of like newborn stage that they were in back then. I do think free software kind of speaks to up and coming folks, right? Like when you're a kid, you don't have a lot of resources. You can't go buy the latest shiny software, but if it's free software, it's yours to run. I feel that is a maker community vibe as well. And there's an element to that as well with the Free Software Foundation enthusiasts, I think.

I think there's also something to be said for you know getting curious about computers and then you both may have had this experience but certainly for me i had a point in time when i all of a sudden discovered that the choices i made with software all of a sudden kind of mattered at least in my own life and that i could actually have choices know, it wasn't just one thing spread everywhere. It's like, oh, wait a second, I can make some like reasonable decisions here. And I can make choices today that might benefit future Brent. Ah, right. That it has. Yeah. Yeah. So I figured the best person to ask the definition of free software might be Matthias, and he gave me a pretty great description. Can you give us a definition of free software from your perspective?

Free software is software that allows everyone to use the software for any purpose without any discrimination. It gives you the freedom to understand the software. So you need to get the source code to have a full understanding of what the software is actually doing and so you are able to discuss it with others in society and that you have the freedom to share the software with others so when you found a good solution for yourself and you want others to work with you or to also benefit from that you can share it with others you can do that either by passing the software on without any cost or you can charge money for that making money with making sharing the software with others and the fourth point is that you are allowed to improve the software

so every individual every company every organization is different with free software it should be possible that people can make modifications and adopt adapt the software to their needs and don't have to change in order to fit into what some programmer thought is the right way to do things so it's use understand and improve. Those are the four freedoms that free software always gives you. Lovely. And I wondered if you could talk a little bit on some of the recent work that the organization has been doing. There's one point in particular around software liability,

and I wondered if you could touch on that a little bit just to give us a sense of, you know, the current state of things. So, I mean, first, the FSFE, we have four pillars on which we base our activities. So we have work in the legal area, we have public awareness work. We have policy work and resources in the technical area. And based on this, those are our competencies. And based on that, we have different activities we are running. Like one thing we have, which is quite known, is we have a campaign framework called Public Money, Public Code, campaign framework called public money public code encouraging people to or demanding from public administrations that if they use public money it should afterwards also be free software and we have like youth hacking for freedom competition we are organizing workshops

conferences about the legal topics creating creating materials there, and in general, informing the public with leaflets, books, and other material about free software. So that's the rough context there. Now, the topic you were going into, it's at the moment the product liability or liability issues, which is discussed in several different files on the European Union level. And that's a very fast-moving topic. I mean, that's often now with policies, regulations, that you have politicians or that political processes there are pretty fast and you often don't know what

exactly, you have to follow very closely to see what is going on exactly at the moment, what are the concerns from different parties, how can you help them to better understand how free software actually works so that they can, again, take decisions on facts and on a good understanding and not on some rumors like, yeah, free software that's developed by these hobbyists. And that's something which is important to clarify there, especially in this topic, that free software is developed by lots of companies.

I mean, if you look at something like Linux, you have the kernel development. That's almost, I mean, a large amount of developers there are doing that on a paid basis. And so that's something a lot of regulators, they don't know. You have to explain it to them. Now, yes, several things there are a bit yeah moving but one few things we want to make sure about there is that when liability is introduced we don't want individual developers to be liable when another entity like a company is using your code which you wrote for your um for for some some smaller projects they use it in a huge setup and then

afterwards they say you are liable for this because we are now using that in our huge server farms for something which is highly critical for public infrastructure. And you say, but I just wrote this library for my hobby project here and published it under free software license. So the people who are developing software, they should not be the ones who are liable.

The people who deploy that into their services into their products those should be the ones who are mainly responsible for the liability and we want to make sure that this is covered in the regulation there and the other part is that if if there are certifications which are required to do so, we need to make sure that beside the companies who don't have that much problem to pay for such certification, that they are also for software which is developed by smaller groups or individuals, that they can also get the certification that there is a financing for affording this and that they are not bothered with now spending lots of money and going through long process to get a certification for their tool where they might not even make a lot of money with that. They just wrote a tool and provide it to others, help them. Well, then those who benefit from it, they should make sure that they can actually use it in a highly critical setup where security is really important.

And yeah, that they give back there and support this. I mean, that's a general thing that we encourage all users, especially corporate users of free software, that they don't just take it and benefit from it but they give back and that they give more money to those people who develop software which gives you the freedom to use the software to understand it to share it and to improve it give more money to those than to companies who restrict you in doing those things and make you dependent on them. So that's the rough overview there. You know, I thought when I was speaking with Matthias, like the light bulb turned on for me in this very moment, because it was clear to me now why the FSFE was really important and how their work that spans, you know, sometimes years for certain projects actually can have a huge impact. And, you know, some discussions that are happening

in the European Parliament, the people making these laws might not have the perspective that the FSFE does. And actually, in this case, I think it's really important they're having those discussions. Well, and the FSFE kind of represents, you know, a lot of the developers and the community where the proprietary software has companies and lobbyists who can be, you know, be their representatives. We need those too. Yeah. This liability rules for software that was originally targeting all software developers, including free software developers, like it needed an advocate to step in there and be like, wait a minute, wait a minute here. We need to slow your roll on what you're doing to free software development here.

And the Free Software Foundation Europe played that role, right? It looks like it's going in a better direction that the committee has decided to protect free software in whatever they're doing around AI regulation. That seems like a pretty big win. I don't know all the details yet. In fact, I'd love to know the audience's local perspective if they want to boost in, but it looks like the Committee on Internal Marketing, Consumer Protection, and the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs, have voted in favor of protecting free software in AI legislation going forward. If, from what I understand, it's specifically the Cyber Resilience Act

that's currently being written and also the Product Liability Directive. So if you want to look into more of those, we have links to some press releases that were just released yesterday as we record this and some more resources there if you want to learn more.

The final vote is expected in the coming weeks, so perhaps more to come. Linode.com slash unplugged. Head on over there to get $100 in 60-day credit, and it's a great way to support the show while you are checking out the fresh Linode now part of Akamai. All the developer-friendly tools

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the edgy edge like brent's house linode.com slash unplugged now i mentioned earlier how some of their work you know is a long view and but matthias actually told me exactly how long some of these views are. I would imagine this is somewhat of a typical example of some of the projects that you're working on. What kind of time frames do these sort of large projects take? I would imagine sometimes it's years. I mean, in general, as efforts of E, we think more in decades. So when you want to make big change in society you have to think in decades so the i mean the free software movement started in 1983

and then look what what progress we made and how long that takes but i mean that's normal i mean when you think about it's software freedom we want to to make sure people understand why software freedom is important for society. Think about how long it took for freedom of the press to be something that is understood by society, why this is important. And still, I mean, you have to fight for that all the time. And some countries where citizens benefited from that, you have backslashers and people who you will not benefit from some of those or there are dangers for the freedom of the press and that's the same for for software freedom it will take decades that this is normal and that that you can benefit from this and then you always have to use those freedoms to keep them active and so we we have i mean we sometimes have projects which are quite short i mean you

hear about something and it's starting and then you you get on it and a few months later it's over um you you have other uh activities like we were involved in the large antitrust case where microsoft was uh the microsoft antitrust case by the european union which started in early 2000s and then went on for 10 years and in the end we were one of the only ngos which were involved in this and other for others there were several agreements and third party moved out of that and we were in this for 10 years. And yeah, with other topics like software patents that also went on for a long time. And we have like public money, public code.

We started that some years ago. And yeah, it's more people are getting involved there. It's a nice framework. Other organizations can also reuse that to work for that in other countries other regions of the world but yeah that's something which will take years till we have enough legislation there that the implementation is working that you balance when people are doing things the wrong way or also when when there are like there is law how is it implemented then and that you monitor and i mean we we then see us as the watchdog and making sure

that what they say is actually what they do and that's often a problem with with law that well there's a nice law nobody is implementing it or caring about it. So yes, it takes a very long time. And that's also why it's so important that we have long-term dedicated volunteers who are working for the organization, that we have donors who don't just donate to us for this small thing in this year,

but we are in a lucky situation that we have people who are supporting us for this small thing in this year but we are in a lucky situation that we have people who are supporting us for years and they they probably they hopefully will continue to support us for years so that's that's very important for us that we know that um well we have the trust of so many people who um who provide resources to us that we can accomplish this, that we don't have to like, oh, we need funding now for this next topic here. And, well, it might be something which is controversial at the point we start and where we make a lot of enemies when we get involved in this. And meanwhile, I mean, there are a lot of very powerful, there were always a lot of powerful opponents in a lot of the work we are doing with huge budgets.

And we are often more like the small organization which tries to balance what big, big companies are. Yeah, they have other interests there, which are often contrary to what we believe is good for society. I never really thought in the timescales that Matthias has to think in, but I'm really glad they are. And something he said in there is they're working to secure funding so they can work on these initiatives for decades. And when you think about it in terms of speech and other things, it just takes a really long, frustratingly long time. speech and other things, it just takes a really long, frustratingly long time. And so they have transitioned from more of a kind of individual, smaller funding, it sounds like, to more like working with people who kind of see what their goal is and want to work with them on a longer period of time.

They're thinking long term. I like that because I've recently been trying to think long term about, you know, what we do here. And it's a, you think about things in a, I think, a healthier way, a longer-term kind of thinking, which is exactly what you want the Free Software Foundation to do. Well, and, you know, this is high-tech, and it's only been around for kind of like one generation. But you could see how an organization like FSF Europe, maybe they're going to move from thinking in decades to thinking generationally at some point. I mean, some of this AI stuff,

this is not going to get resolved tomorrow. It's going to take a long time. He mentioned that it's a small organization fighting these behemoths. So I thought it would be interesting to reveal just how small they are. So Matthias, he let me know that there are about 10 full-time equivalent employees, at least in the European part. But the volunteers are really, you know, quite active and are out into the community making change and being the eyes and ears of the organization.

And about 150 or so, let's call them somewhat active volunteers that are, you know, coming when they can and sometimes are busy with families and stuff like that. So it's no small thing. It's not a huge number, but it's not a tiny number either. It's a core number of individuals that are having a lot of impact. Yeah. And Matthias had on the table something that I found was a little curious and he said, oh yeah, I want to have an impact in a personal way as well. And so he shared this little object with me. You have placed this lovely looking book in front of me. And I could tell by your smile that you're quite proud of it. And I wondered if you could give listeners a sense of what's in front of us here and why it's important what

you're trying to accomplish with it. And I mean, you're distributing this worldwide and so what that's been like yeah it's the book ada and sangamon a tale of software skateboards and raspberry ice cream i wanted to somehow explain my own children about technology and prepare them for their life which will be with way more computers than when I was growing up. And I wanted to give them some sense of, like some frame to be prepared for their lives. And yeah, so I looked for other books. I asked people for other books, and I didn't find anything there especially for younger children and then i thought okay well i started inventing some short stories for when i when i brought them to bed and based on their feedback

i um i then continue to develop this and yeah from from this then this this story developed and through several uh also yeah some luck uh good support by many many many people uh um it yeah uh it worked out that i in the end then published the book i never thought that i would publish a book and then i first did it in german and now there is also the english version which uh and uh from the end of august on which will be distributed worldwide and which you can already pre-order now. And yeah, I'm very proud of that, that we have accomplished it, that it is available under a free cultural license. So it's Creative Commons by ShareLike,

which is quite uncommon in the publishing world still, especially with commercial publishers. I'm very thankful for O'Reilly for the german edition that they did this and that so many people still bought the books and showed the publishers that well yes you can make money with free cultural licenses that no starch press was agreeing to this for the english version and that through this there are also so many opportunities which i haven't thought about before that people i mean there are no community translations and there there are also so many opportunities which i haven't thought about before that people i mean there are no community translations um and there there are people who make modifications for younger children even for kindergarten and we have all the materials in our git repository you can

use that you can read the book to children which i am doing and i i really love the like the energy you get when you um when you read this book to children that's that's so amazing uh the questions they have about technology you you can talk with them about all of that depending on what your own interest also is there and um yeah so so all the materials are there you you can have slides. We have the text there with the markers, when to change slides. And yeah, it's so great to see how people make use of that. And from this, I'm telling a story to my children. You can now buy the book or pre-order the book. There are people out there who buy 10 copies and donate it to libraries around them.

There are companies who buy 1,000 copies to give to their customers because they like it so much. There are people who donate to us so that we could do Ukrainian translation and donate a few thousand copies to organizations working with refugee children in Europe on then because it went so well people donated for an Arabic version and we printed 7,000 copies and distributed that so I mean that that's just yeah when you started with something so small you think yeah there are probably some people who they will like it because it helps them to talk with their children about what they are doing there on their computers all the time to people doing all those things librarians calling you can you come and do a reading we have organized a cinema and then you have 150 children in the cinema and you you read this story to them and they are all in there and afterwards small girls are coming to you i want to

start programming and you you see like in one reading a few weeks ago there was a small girl who in the question uh section of the of the event she talked about what ada lovelace was also doing you just think like oh you're so great and uh you will have such a great life in in front you. So that's, yeah, it's amazing. So, yes. It sounds so extremely inspiring, really. And it's amazing how an idea can go from, you know, the bedroom of your children, literally,

to changing the world in a small way. So that's amazing. You can hear the energy in Matthias' voice and I found that just like contagiously inspiring. Yeah. And Chris, I would imagine for you, like with your children, would it have been nice to have some of these tools? I really like this idea. Yeah.

Vint Cerf says it introduces readers young and old to the power and peril of software. Behind it all is a backdrop of ethics ethics knowledge sharing upon which an arc of human history rides i also like it it kind of plays with the you know thinking in decades thing yeah you can get them while they're young expose them to the ideas you know of how you should expect to be able to relate to computers and software and all of these systems that will be very important in your life yeah cory doctor has said it's a rousing tale of self-reliance community and standing up to bullies we'll put a link to the book in the show notes. You can get it in various formats. It does look like a good one. It makes me inspired for tonight's bedtime story. Well, if you're feeling extra inspired, Matthias had a few suggestions on how you might get involved. If someone wants to get involved, how would they do so?

And where's the best place to start? There is fsfe.org slash contribute with several ways of how you can contribute, which are formalized, going from like volunteering to donating. And if you want to volunteer and you don't see a way to do that, write us an email,

tell us what you can do, what you would like to do. And I'm pretty sure we will find something there for you. And I mean, I'm a big fan of, I have this quote, which my first teacher wrote down for me. It was many small people in many small places do many small things that will change the face of the world. So every small contribution will help there. And if we want to accomplish software freedom for our societies, we need to make sure that a lot of people in many places do many small things, and then we will accomplish a change.

We don't need someone who spends their whole life on this and doing nothing else. We need a lot of people, and together we will accomplish this. Well, Matthias, thank you so much for having me here in the office. I really appreciate it. And thank you for sharing your ideas and perspectives with us. Thank you very much for being here. Bitwarden.com slash Linux. Go on, go get started with a free trial for yourself or a team at Bitwarden.com slash linux go on go get started with a free trial for yourself or a team at

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so I can have my personals, I can have the biz and any projects I'm involved in. And it's easy to move between all of that on mobile and on the desktop or in the web. There's a flat pack for Bitwarden. You can get installed on your desktop and you can get signed into everything. Of course, the mobile apps are fantastic and they're always improving it. I just really appreciate that combination. And it's just low-hanging fruit. Like, you do this, and you're going to really help yourself online. A unique username, a unique password, and now with Bitwarden, a unique email address. For every site, service, and app you use, that is really a gift to yourself. And maybe you know somebody around you that needs to improve their security.

Maybe your team may place your work. Send them all. Go on right now. Bitwarden.com slash Linux. Head on over there Go on right now. Bitwarden.com slash Linux. Head on over there and support the show at Bitwarden.com slash Linux. Ask not what your podcast can boost for you, but what you can boost for your podcast. All right, we got some boosts this week, and we got some ballers to thank who really came in to support the show, especially with the times getting rough out there. And our baller

boost this week comes from Legit Salvage with 121,212 sats. Spread across two boosts. Zip code vote for a meetup spot. I work from home in Indiana, but my company office is in downtown Chicago. And he sent

us a 6606 boost as well. So that works out to be Chicago, Illinois. I, I think this is probably in my top three gotta do's Midwest meetup. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Chicago wasn't even on my list, but now I'm feeling like it should be. I've just got enough like, Hey man, you ought to come to Chicago's, you know, it just over the years has worked it up the list. For an unrelated reason, I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos that happen to review hot dog joints in and around

Chicago, so, you know, we could have a list of places to go. I just don't understand, because like, I've gotten other bits of insights into what your YouTube feed is today, and they're nowhere in the ballpark of hot dogs in Chicago. And I just, like, I can't even understand. It just doesn't help me understand here.

That is incredible. All right, well, Danny also came in with a real healthy-looking boost. Look at that thing. 111,101 sats. I hoard that which you all kind covet. He just sent it right from the Podcast Index website. He says, I love the way you describe boosts in this episode, Chris. More online content creators should hear this, especially for those who aren't already in the open source Linux Bitcoin community.

Thank you, Danny42. So, Danny, I tried to clip it, but my whole diatribe was way too long last week, wasn't it? Yeah, we found limitations to Fountain. We just couldn't do it. Fountain's like,be was way too long last week, wasn't it? Yeah, we found limitations to Fountain. We just couldn't do it. Fountain's like, no, bro, you can't. Why? That's too long. Why'd you talk that long? So then I thought about redoing it more concisely in office hours

and clipping that, but it just never materialized. But I really appreciate that, Danny, because it was something that I'd reflected on a lot. It's something I think about a lot. And I also think a lot of the things that I touch on would also apply to free software if people are open to the idea. And I'm just going to gently continue to say it. We'll see if it ever goes anywhere. Hybrid sarcasm boosts in with 100,000 sats. First LB boost and Jupiter Party member.

I'm throwing down the gauntlet and challenging the JB audience to send a collective one million sats each week. We send in our boosts with a show topic of choice. On the weeks that the million sat goal is achieved, the show topic of the week's biggest booster is chosen and put in the pipeline. What do you think? Love all the shows and want to avoid any hiatus. So Brent and I were talking about this one ahead of time

because we saw this boost come in, obviously. We have the dashboard up. And I think you really love this idea. Okay, first of all, a million sats? That's just something. Well, and I think to go with this, we could be transparent and we will total the sats up every episode

and disclose how many sats we got to make this work. And we've done so this week. So I'll read the total at the end of the boost segment. And we're not, we're really not that far from a million sats this episode. So it is within the realm of possibility. Here's the thing I like about it, Wes. And I'm curious to know what you think.

I sort of like the idea of the listener picking the topic and us kind of just sort of tucking and rolling and like trying to make the best show possible out of that topic. Yeah, that seems like a great challenge. It's a sort of twist on the idea of, you know, ultimately what we're producing is for the audience. So maybe we should just give them what they want. So the idea is if collectively, with everybody everybody boosting in the episode reaches a million total sats then uh people boost in along with their boost a show topic of choice and when the episode hits a million sats for the episodes that do hit one million sats the show topic of the week's biggest booster is chosen. So it's like a combo crowdfunding slash auction.

You know, I wonder if we could do a slight modification, because I would hate to see, you know, in the next three episodes, everyone's throwing out all their best topics. Oh, yeah, okay. Right? So I wonder if that might not give us more time to do, you know, a proper research around the topic. So if someone, let's say we get to a million at a specific episode, then the ball or booster of that episode could then boost

again, whatever amount doesn't matter, suggesting the theme because, you know, we need a little bit of at least like a week to research a topic and we want to do it well, but in that way, we don't lose all our best topics to non-winners. I do see what you're saying is somebody might just send in a million sap boost with their best topic idea and then somebody else might, we might get all those and then it just sort of dies. No, that's not what I was saying. I think that's what will happen.

They're not chosen. They could, they could just send him in again, right? Oh yeah. Right. Fair enough. I kind of like the surprise of it though.

I don't know. That's true. We're open to ideas. I think it's really what we're saying. Yeah. I think what we should try is the baller booster topic. They should send it in with that baller boost, because that's the one that's going to be noticed. But if I'm a baller booster, and I boost in 60,000 sats, and I'm the boost-most person of that episode. You're the most boosty?

If I'm the most boosty. But then collectively, everyone else brings us to a million sats. But that's how it's going to work. Yeah. You're the most boosty? If I'm the most boosty. But then collectively, everyone else brings us to a million sats. But that's how it's going to work. Yeah. That's the point. But how do I know that I'm the boostiest?

Well, that's the fun part. Okay. Okay, I'm on board. Let's go. That's the gamification, right? If I was doing that, I might send in like a 200,000 sat boost

or something. That's a pretty good amount, right? Bring it on. Okay, okay. I'm with all of you. Just pardon me. I'm from Canada. Wait a minute. Since when is that an excuse? Wait'm french canadian is that how i didn't realize we could do that anymore uh quinn sent in 78 752 sats also a baller boost

and it's a zip code boost as well so keep up, keep up the great work. I'm planning to come to LinuxFest Northwest in October. Yes! And Quinn's zip code boost is from Austin, Texas. Ooh. Looking forward to seeing you at LinuxFest, Quinn. Does that mean driving to LinuxFest? Let us know. Yeah.

Be cool to get a JB Caravan going. Michael B. boosted in 70,771 Satoshis. Coming in hot with the boom. Here's my zip code. The city is Leinfelden-Esterdingen in Germany. How did I do? I mean, you were just there. Nailed it, dude.

You totally, I can tell you nailed it. I got hesitant near the end. Esterdingen. I don't know. But I like that we had to try. I've just been asking the robots. Thanks, Michael B. We appreciate it.

Yeah, we ought to get the robot just to say it for us. Sy Sadman comes in with 50,676 sats. Coming in hot with the boom. Using Podverse. Greetings. Doing my part for the JB survival. You have no idea just how much value these shows add to my life. Heck, you guys made me reliant on Nix, and finally I got set up with Albie for Value for Value. Despite my reservation about crypto,

sat streaming just feels so right. All the best. Looking forward to getting pulled into software rabbit holes for years to come. By the way, the last four digits of my boost is my postal code. So the last four digits west are zero six seven six uh oslo norway oslo norway oslo norway it's beautiful i bet you it's beautiful well thank you size appreciate the boost appreciate the survival boost as well thank you for being one of our ballers this week we're reliant on nicks I'm curious to know more about that. Yeah. Yeah. Do go into detail.

You know, I also sympathize that the set streaming feels so right. I feel like that's one of the elements when I'm sort of explaining some of the, you know, podcasting 2.0 value for value specifics to people that kind of connects, or at least I can speak to because it's like, I'm listening to it. I could just send you, I can just send you. For while I'm listening to it. I can just send you... I can just send you... Send you for while I'm listening. Yeah. They just also are introducing a new spec for time-based value unlock.

So the idea is, say you wanted to feature a community member song. Say one of our JB community members was an artist that created music and we wanted to feature one of their songs in our show. We can now do time-based splits. So while that song is playing you could boost like 80 of the sats to the to the creator of the song the show still gets like a split whatever you said

but the majority would go to that artist and then when the song ends the splits would go back to normal that's so cool yeah i mean you could even see like if you're using a free software library for a bit maybe like while that free software library is being used, they get a split. You mean while the audience is live coding on Suicide Linux, and maybe that project can get a few Toshis their way? Wouldn't that be neat? Feral Hippie comes in with 49,660 sats using Fountain Zip Code Boost, but they're going to give us the location right there,

which makes it easy for us. It's a mainstay, right? My snow means Manistee, Manistee, Manistee, Manistee. I enjoy automated irrigation discussion.

I'm playing around with the biochar for the first time to improve soil and water retention in my gardens. I'm impressed with the amount of fertilizer biochar soaked up before I mixed it into my potting soil mix. It's easy to incorporate with biochar. You mix it in your compost pile as you build it. This will charge it with soil life and nutrients. I think we have a whole sub-trend of garden boosts

that's going to start happening here. We've got some garden geeks in the audience. We definitely do. And it's great because it's such an opportunity to play with little devices and sensors and monitor moisture and automate the watering. It really is a chance to geek out and then you get food.

Well, if you've done things right. There's no guarantee. That's true. That's true. DFJ225 comes in with 30,316 sats. Getting that zip code boost in, boys. Giving Albie a try, which means I also was able to give Noster a shot. The protocol is interesting, but is it just me?

Or is it a social network that is exclusively Bitcoin bros? What's that zip code, Wes? Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah, it reminds me of early Mastodon. Early Mastodon was people talking about Mastodon. And it was only people talking about Mastodon for like years. It's always how it goes. With early adopters, right, you're just going to get a sort of self-selective.

You don't have the diversity of people just using it. And it's so easy when you have Albi to sign up for Nostra because you can log in with your Lightning address and then you can participate in that whole ecosystem. So it's like you get Albie. If you want to go the Nostra route, it's like one click. So it's pretty easy to tip your toe. Gene Bean comes in with 30,000 asides. Maybe you can do a fundraising drive to get X additional memberships where X equals what you need to keep the shows going. Let us provide you the value you need so you can keep getting value from the

shows. Gene Bean, you're such an awesome booster. Yes. So listen, yeah, we are talking about ideas for the membership programs. I think we will probably inevitably one or two shows may pause.

I don't know exactly yet, but if that happens, I'll probably refer, I'll probably first go through like a rebound recovery period where I'll try to like recover my health a little bit. And then I'll probably start focusing on member content because ideally what I'd like to see, and maybe it doesn't happen this year, but maybe it happens by the end of next year, is something like 50, 60% of the network income comes from memberships and boosts. And then we engage with sponsors on certain things for certain special occasions.

Maybe it's an event, maybe it's a particular thing we're doing. I don't know, something more like that. Um, because it just totally changes the complexity of the business to the transition to value for value. I've now realized on the backend is going to mean a fundamental shift in what I

spend my time doing. And it's going to be a massive improvement for my mental health, for my physical health, and for the quality of the shows as we make that transition. And I think the membership program is going to be one of the key aspects. I mean, this is the boost segment, but I think long term, the membership program is like that baseline revenue that you know you have as a small business. And that is going to be super critical as we start making plans. So we'll definitely be thinking about ways to improve that and make that more enticing. Yeah, what was the old public radio term? Underwriters? Yeah. You say old public radio. Isn't that a new thing for them?

Now, I wondered if Gene Bean here was more saying, hey, we need more specifics as the audience to know exactly what you're chasing. You know, you and I were talking about earlier, sort of like, kind of like bounties almost. You know, like if we had this unlocked, we would do this. Like a project bounty or a future bounty or something. If there was a good, clean way to do that, that'd be something I'd be interested in. We would just kind of like, then we'd write it up, put it up there as a proposal to the community, and then if it got

funded, we'd execute on it. And if it didn't, no big deal. It's up there. Yeah, that's definitely something that's worth thinking about if we could come up with a clever implementation. Hal was right, BoostsIn, with 21,000 sats. Great segment on

Boosts over Patreon. I'll be sharing with some of my other favorite podcasts. Well, thank you. Yeah, if I could clip it, I would. Maybe you could clip it and share it around, or maybe I could do it more concisely. But I really I'm glad it was well received, and

it's funny because it was something I thought I'd talk about at a different point in time, but it came up and it was fresh on the mind. There it was. Fountain, for those of you that are using it, has an interesting promotion going on for all you baller boosters out there. They say we've partnered with At Bit Refill to give away $50 of a Bit Refill balance card to two super fans on Fountain every week. All you got to do is boost. That could be a great way to support the show and get a little bit back.

Wait, wait, Chris, are you saying that everything we read just now is all baller boosters? is boost i could be a great way to support the show and get a little bit back wait wait chris are you saying that everything we read just now is all baller boosters yes so the context there is um i talked a little bit about how jb is going to be going through 2023 and we'll probably be restructuring a little bit as the podcast advertising scene has been collapsing we're just kind of reevaluating what that means for us. And the community is stepping up to try to support us. And it's so appreciated because it sort of feels like, well, yeah, there's going to be some really bad stuff. Personally, for me, I'm going to be digging myself into a bigger hole, but it's, it's like long-term, we just, we have the best audience

ever. And when you're, when you're facing sort of like this existential, I'm going to have to reform and factor the business to have the audience there being like, yeah, we got you. That's a big deal. Dan Johansson boosted in with 5,000 sats. Just a support boost to keep you on air. Thank you. Magnolia Mayhem also came in with 7,000 sats. Coming in hot with the boom.

Simply saying, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. It's a good point. Nobody does. Faraday Fedora came in with 2,722 sats. It says, here's a little extra sats for the episode coming out early, plus one for the EcoWit. It's a super easy to set up weather station

and it doesn't call home by default. I like that a lot. Thank you very much. Smart Growth came in with 10,000 sats across two boosts and wrote, it was an excellent episode. I'm actually shutting down the farm due to inflation and increased theft of meat at the butcher.

So I get what you guys are going through. We're pivoting as well in figuring out ways to survive. Thanks for continuing to make great shows. How do I effectively support your work via Bitcoin? Boosts don't seem like enough. Well, I think larger boost amounts, but also there is Oak, which does

reoccurring Lightning payments, and then there's also the membership program, which does fiat payments, which is also an option. It looks like Smart Growth also linked to something called GardenBot. Oh, really? Oh, yes, I see that. GardenBot, something called GardenBot. Oh, really? Oh, yes, I see that. GardenBot, huh? GardenBot.org.

Oh, man. There are so many garden geeks out there. So this is like a whole garden system. And it's even a cute little garden-themed website. Mm-hmm. Thanks, Smart Growth. The Golden Dragon show mascot boosts in with a row of ducks. Ah, to say Wes got it, KC BBQ is super good.

If Waylon gets better on NVIDIA, I'd definitely look at starting back on Hyperland. Thanks for the show. Yeah, I love hearing people check out Hyperland. Dragon, I gotta know, have you been to Austin? Have you had the best of austin barbecue i don't want to start a thing it's not a competition we can have a lot of good barbecues that exist you know yes however i think you can scientifically say some barbecue is better than other barbecues and i i don't think the kc barbecue is at the top of that list especially

the vinegar-based sauces now if your meat that list, especially the vinegar-based sauces. Now, if your meat lives and dies on a vinegar-based sauce, is it really that good to begin with? I'm just asking, can you say you have the best barbecue or that it's super good if you haven't tried the best barbecue? Just asking. I don't know. I personally have not been to Kentucky, but... Kentucky. Come on. I got that messed up last week, too.

This is our show mascot, boosting in. I know. It's the KFC story. Have some respect. It's that KFC story, man. It sticks in my head. That deadly son of a gun that had to run his fast food restaurant. I can't get over it. Forward humor boosts in with 7,110 sets

across two boosts. As much as we appreciate tailored, relevant ads, if it's a difference between having our Jupiter Broadcasting team or not, I think the majority of your listeners would agree. We really have no problem fast-forwarding through some irrelevant mattress or razor ads every week. No shame at all if that's what it takes to make your family not suffer. As much as we all want to stick it to the man, providing for your kids is a priority. Keep up the great work. And thanks for the tip on the

Evernote Linux beta. Just signed up. I know the show has taken a strong bent towards self-hosting, which is empowering for sure, but I appreciate not having to host everything, in particular my notes and my Pitwarden vault. Those are a couple parts of my life that feel some major pain when they're inaccessible. And I know I'm putting my trust in someone else's infrastructure, but let's be honest, theirs is much more solid than mine. No, I get that. Yeah, I totally get that. In fact, I think there's a lot of, I think there's a really sound logic to it.

And this message is made possible by Squarespace. Squarespace is the absolute easiest way to make your website. I've used them for a few different sites, you know. Now, here's the thing. If you fast forward through the ads and then you don't use the ad in the promo code, it doesn't work. Like the sponsor doesn't come back anyways. But I didn't make it clear enough. And I should have made it clear enough. I don't want to read the factory food ads or the silly website ad or the mattress ad or the toothpaste ad.

I don't want to do it. I haven't done this for 18 years, so that way I can come down here to the studio, sit in front of this microphone, turn on all this fancy equipment, and tell you about toothpaste. It's just not in my heart. It's not what I want to do. My mouth feels real fresh, though. And also, I couldn't do it. The reason why I can sell the stuff I do sell is because I like and use it. I'm not good at selling stuff I don't like.

It's just I suck at it. It's probably an ADD thing. So, but I do also think I'm going back to Evernote. Just going to drop that and move right along. No, no. do also think I'm going back to Evernote. Just going to drop that and move right along. No! It's been a wild week watching his note system in the flesh. It's rough, man. It's just been a mess. The Joplin stuff went south.

What? We're going to need an official show update. Not this week, obviously, but sometime. Gort Brown comes in with 4,096 sats. I decided to give Hyperland a try. It's easily my new favorite window manager and desktop environment. Not only does it look amazing and run

flawlessly on Manjaro, but the configuration is probably the easiest out of any tiling window manager I've ever used. Here, here. Can't wait to see if this gets packaged with the distros in the futures. I agree. It is just begging for, like, an Ubuntu spin flavor thingy

or like an option in the NixOS graphic installer. Hashtag just saying. That would be wonderful. Ladenpax comes in with 4,000 sats. I've been listening to LUP since before I started university back in my home country in 2016. By the way, my postal code is the boost amount times 10. Now I'm doing my

master's in Germany while working at Robotics Company, which has robots running Linux. Lep has always kept me excited for all things Linux and even impressed some coworkers with things I've learned from this show. I'm proud to send some value back to my favorite podcast and I'll help you guys

keep going. Keep up the great work. That is a great boost check-in thank you and keep us posted on how it's going with the robots and how you're doing with your masters i'd love to hear a check-in at some point a lot that's that's great west did you get a location maybe malaysia well that doesn't sound right we're gonna need i think we're gonna need a correction boost that's the best part about getting the location wrong. I guess is tell us where you're actually from. Cause we'd love to know.

Or, uh, okay, let's go with Kentucky. That's totally different, dude. And he's doing his, he says right here,

I'm doing my master's in Germany. So that's still possible. Did you meet, did you meet mean Kansas City? Oh yeah, here we go. Yeah? I think you meant... Hey, now.

Okay, here we go. Postal codes in Germany. Okay, alright. High five, Kunisar. Came in with 5,000 sats. This is to help Chris in his Joplin troubles. I use the sync server and i've had no issues with the sync yeah i've heard good things about the joplin sync server in a container perhaps i should go that route i've been doing the webdav thing with nextcloud and that's worked really solid until it just didn't work at all i don't really know what went wrong because like

some clients are still working so I don't actually think it's maybe Nextcloud so much but maybe just Joplin over WebDAV I should definitely take a look at that server I suppose I'm feeling done with Joplin though I'm feeling like I'm hitting the old escape patch I'm rocketing out, I'm parachuting

and I'm just going to land on the green fields of Evernote that's how i'm feeling right now wow i love that username though high five connoisseur yeah train everything you want i know i know the dark side help me somebody help me marchi boosted in 9001 cents it's over 9000 please put these stats towards the hashtag Westpain2024 campaign fund. Here's a slogan idea. You get a distro.

And you get a distro. And you get a distro. And you get a distro. Everybody gets a distro. This message was brought to you by K-Exec. It's not the distro. It's how you use it. Yeah, I think the only problem with Westpain becoming president is,

I think you'd be surprised what a dictator he might become. I just think he'd be ruthless. Let me just say, practice your Nix expressions. Gerald Osmond boosted in with 11,000 sats. Boost! Spread out in about two boosts. Great show from... Oh, I looked this up even

and I forget I think it's Harley yeah Norway yeah skiing yeah

one of those is a town or a city well one of them is I don't know about the skiing but I'm going with the Yarle you know we might we might need to get geography lessons

just as a group turns out we've done to ourselves can we get that online worldwide audience Zach Attack comes in with 10,000 sats another good show lessons just as a group. Can we get that online? Worldwide audience. Zach Attack comes in with 10,000 sats. Another good show. Throw my hat into the notes discussion. I'm using Obsidian

on all my devices with NextCloud as the back end. Works well for me with the exception of mobile syncing. NextCloud wants the file to exist first, then be synced to the phone, and then any updates get synced across the devices. Not a big deal i think upsetting is a great note-taking program especially with vim commands you know i noticed how he didn't

say nano commands yeah well what are not nano commands they are just natural human i couldn't tell you instinctual commands that are compatible with the human being and approach them where they are. That's what the nano commands are. Splint boosts in with 18,440 cents across two boosts. Nice. Alberg University is in Denmark, the land of the protest pig. The city for a castle full of eels. Direct translation, eel castle. Apparently, because some of my boost splits failed,

I investigated why the Albie extension didn't work, but couldn't find anything besides the boosting application itself is responsible for the message character limit. That is true. There is not necessarily a limit, but it's kind of like all the app makers have kind of settled around a limit. Yeah, I guess Podverse won't let you boost in if the message is over 200. Podcast Index doesn't have a limit, but if you write a really long boost,

some splits just don't work. It throws a tantrum, he says, which is a great way to put it. Stop it, it says. Yeah, and we have had people figure out ways around it. But of course, on our side, we kind of appreciate the limit to some degree because, you know, it makes the boost go around, as they say, because if they're so long, then they become emails. So let's talk about our totals, ladies and gentlemen, but thank you very much for the boost, everybody. That was incredible and really a nice showing of support. Now, the question is, is it sustainable? I'm not so sure. So the total was 788,587 sats for this episode. So just shy of a million, right? Not bad. That's a pretty good amount. 41 boost total across 33 individual unique boosters. So if we can make

a million and somebody can pick the topic next week, we'll take you up on your challenge. There you go. That's the goal to beat. 788,000 sats is the goal to beat. Thank you, everybody who boosted in. You got two paths ahead of you. If you'd like to participate, you can join the podcasting revolution and get a new podcasting 2.0 app at newpodcastapps.com. Try out Podverse or Fountain or Castomatic. Those are some of the audience favorites. Or perhaps you'd like to keep your dang podcast app. And I'm noticing a lot more people are using the podcast index. It starts with Albie. Get Albie.com. You top it off either directly inside the app or the Lightning Network. It's open. It's easy. Cash app, strike. I don't

know what you're using. Maybe an existing app, Fountain. You can send them into Albie over the Lightning Network and then boost in from the podcast Index website. You just got to look up Linux Unplugged over there, podcastindex.org. Thank you, everybody, very, very much. So our pick this week is going around, as they say. And the name is Ubuntu D Bullshit. And its purpose is to purge snaps, install Flatpak support, restore vanilla gnome on Ubuntu 22.04.

Thank you, guys. Vanilla gnome. And it runs on Ubuntu 22.04 and Ubuntu 23.04. Yeah, it's just a, well, so it's not actually a curl pipe to bet. It's a bash-c with a W get inside w get inside so you know a new spin on that uh if you're comfortable with that you just do that reboot and you should have vanilla genome after logging in i actually legit went to go try it on my ubuntu install i have upstairs and i just done one of those like it do all the updates and shut down and i hadn't powered it back on and this is

legitimately 20 minutes before we're going to start the show. So we're, because we're doing a little early, I did not have time to try this, but I powered the system on the grub menu comes up. It selects Ubuntu 23.04. And then just nothing happens after that, that after the timeout expires, nothing, no error message, just a flashing cursor in my corner. I don't know what happened, but when I get my system rebuilt, I'm going to try this. I like the idea, although I really don't mind canonical spin on Genome.

I think they do a fine job, but I do kind of like the idea of just setting up flat pack support and perhaps purging snaps, although that's not such an issue for me. But we'll put a link if you want to try it out. I suppose it kind of just makes it Debian.

Not really, but we'll have a link in the show notes if you want to try it out. I suppose it kind of just makes it Debian. Not really, but we'll have a link in the show notes if you want to try it. Also, I want to say specifically thank you to our members. We had some new folks sign up. Unpluggedcore.com is how you can support this show or jupiter.party for all the shows. This week, we're recording an exclusive episode for our members since we're offline, but we still have something we're putting together for them. And when you become an Unpl core or a Jupiter dot party member, you get access to the entire live show, sort of the bootleg copy, or you can choose the ad free feed,

whichever you prefer. And they'll have those at unplugged core.com and Jupiter dot party and Jupiter dot party. You get all the perks for all the shows, all the shows. That's nice. Including that Linux action news that you're on. It's a good one this week.

I like that. There's actually a lot kind of going on right now. Yeah. Yeah, including a big old summit that the Linux Foundation is putting on and some vulnerabilities that are like no joke, serious, exploit codes getting released on Monday. Maybe a teaser, but we might be talking about PCacheFS again sometime soon. I have a feeling. I have a feeling

we will. So you can find that at LinuxActionNews.com. You get more Wes Payne and myself, and of course, just to break down everything going on in the world of Linux that you need to know about. As for us, we should be live back at our regular time next Sunday at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern over at JBLive.tv.

See you next week. Same bad time, same bad station. And of course, links to what we talked about today are at linuxunplugged.com slash 510. Get all the links, get our guest information over there, or check out the new community-built website, jupiterbroadcasting.com. Nice website.

Built entirely by our community, and it features all our shows. Go give it a look. And you could even go give it a poll request, too. Plus, you might want to go check out JupiterBroadcasting.com slash calendar. Get them live times in your local time zone. That makes it easy. Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode of the Unplugged Program. And yes, indeed, we will see you right back here next Sunday. Thank you. you