LINUX Unplugged - 535: Hit the Turbo

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

A special guest joins us, and we each give Fedora 39 a try. What’s new, what we liked, and what didn’t make the cut! Special Guest: Drew DeVore.

It's a late show this week. I apologize, everybody. We always try to get the show out on time. It basically takes a near-death experience for us to delay the show, and that's what happened this week. I got sick, and I don't really know exactly what happened, but it got bad fast, and it happened while I'm here in El Salvador. And when did I contact you? Did I contact you guys Sunday morning? Is that when I got a hold of you?

Yeah. Oh, man. You know when I'm contacting you and saying, I got to delay the show. You guys know it's bad. Oh, yeah. We didn't even question it. Yeah.

I mean, that basically doesn't happen, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had some sort of, like, I lost my stomach lining, essentially, is what happened. I'll just, to keep it just brief, and was on the bathroom floor and thought I was probably, well, I didn't want to have to go to the emergency room because I don't speak Spanish. anything like a western town or a western city it is more like a third world right people are literally living in shacks and i didn't really want to go to the doctor there i may have been able to find something but they probably would have been an hour away and when you're just

in excruciating sick sickness you don't want to even ride in an uber for an hour and so we had to kind of figure out like what we're going to do so we knew we had to delay the show and we had to move somewhere where we maybe could go to a store and maybe find medication. And so we hemmed and hawed about it. When we decided to delay the show, what we did is we canceled our stay at Bitcoin Beach a day early, got in the Uber when I was kind of doing my best and drove an hour into San Salvador, the capital, where just outside of San Salvador, we found an Airbnb that had a great hostess. And she also found medication. I don't know if it's prescription. I don't know what the deal is down here. I wasn't even going to ask at that point. I was in such a

bad way. And so I took some medication, started eating rice, rice water, actually, not even rice, started eating rice rice water actually not even rice just rice water and started nursing myself back but boys i knew i was in for it i knew i was in for it when when the plane landed in el salvador in washington it gets cold and you guys have all seen this where you get like you're you're inside of your windows because they fog up, you get humidity in the car, and then you have to run like your defroster, and that's all pretty normal to us in the Pacific Northwest. Well, in El Salvador, and other places where it's hot in here, but I'm sure, the outside of the window gets all fogged up. Not the inside of the window, the outside of the window. And I knew as soon as we were landing, and we came down out of of the air and the outside of the plane started just getting wet and foggy i knew oh god because i've come i just came from seattle and i'm like in a full shirt long sleeve

shirt i got pants on i got socks right i'm like fully dressed i've been in the plane all day in air conditioning and i knew it. And then once the plane was on the ground, and I'm sure you guys have probably seen this cause you've traveled more than I have, but I've never seen this. They started pumping like humidity or, or steam into the plane. So the, over the overhead bins, like this wall waterfall of steam started pouring into the airplane to try to normalize the humidity in the airplane to start matching it outside. And you know, you guys know how long it takes to onboard a plane. That is a long process and they're just dumping it and dumping it. I'm thinking, well,

this is getting pretty humid. So, okay, we're going to be adjusted. No, no, no, no. I was walking through the airport and I was starting to get a hint of it. But then when we walked out that front door, after we got through customs, which was a little sketch because there was an issue with Hadiyah's passport because Hadiyah, my wife and my son Dylan came with me and we got stuck at customs for a bit. dad because he got through customs before us and so we get outside we find him and it's like it's like stepping into a shower it's like if you walked into a shower and water like it was basically raining but it was humidity and everything got wet my shirt was wet the bags were wet like everything was and it was hot and it was dark and nobody spoke English and the hotel didn't notify our driver properly. And so he wasn't there and there, Oh, I knew it. I knew right then. And I, this was the moment I thought, boy, this would be an awful place to get sick because I'm extremely uncomfortable when I'm feeling perfectly fine. And then of course I had to go and get sick. Uh, it was pretty,

I mean, outside of that, it was, it's been a really, really, really great experience. Maybe I'll talk about it more in the future. But I did want to apologize for the late show. But it kind of worked out. I think we'll have a fun one. And we got our buddy Drew here. Hey, Drew. Hey.

Hey, welcome back. It's been forever. Yeah, it's been quite a while. It's good to be back. If me getting sick gave us an opportunity to reschedule and get Drew in so we could talk a little Fedora, then I say it's worth it. Well, hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. My name talk show. My name is Chris. My name is Wes.

My name is Brent. And my name is Drew. Hello, gentlemen. Oh, it is so great to be together with you now. Life is finally starting to feel a little normal. Coming up on the show today, it is a Fedora release party episode. We all took a look at Fedora 39. We'll talk about what's in there that's new, what we liked,

and we'll tell you what didn't make the cut. Then we'll round it out with some great boosts, some picks, and more. So before I go any further, let's say good morning to our friends over at Tailscale. Go to tailscale.com slash linux unplugged and get a Mesh VPN protected by WireGuard. We love it. It'll change your networking game. I have been using it on networking game. I have been using it on the daily while I have been here, and it has been fantastic. Check it out at tailscale.com slash linuxunplugged. I've been using it for every transaction I've been doing

down here. It has been really, really great. And I don't have a mumble room to introduce this week since we're not live, but I did want to start with a bit of news that we thought our listeners should probably know about. Before we get into Fedora, we'll kind of keep it brief here. And the first one that I think probably affects us as a team and maybe our listeners is the announcement that our favorite Matrix client, Element, is switching to the AGPL. They're switching from the Apache license to the AGPL v3. And I think maybe at first pass, this seems like good news.

Maybe it is good news, but there's also potentially some bad news in here, right, Wes? Oh, yeah. Well, there's also a new contributor license agreement that's going to be in place for new contributions. So I think there's

some worries out there that, you know, it's AGPL, the open source world, and then, you know, the element folks can relicense and take those contributions and do what they want with them. Now, everything I've heard about CLA is the general advice is don't do it and so i feel like this might really keep people from contributing to what has otherwise been such a great project yeah uh that really seems to turn people off the contributor agreement is a big big red flag and i want to stop right here and say we also have to acknowledge that the matrix project itself and element specifically have told us multiple times they're struggling to raise money they're struggling financially and their essential response to the community's concern has been well we're the same

development team it's always it's always had a pretty permissive license. We just want to relicense certain components so that we can sell them and make a profit. Yeah, they've built out Element Server Suite, a scalable, robust, professionally supported matrix server distribution. That is sort of the first version of this, I guess. It does include an Element Starter,

which is a free self-hosted version that supports organizations of up to 200 people. It does feel like kind of a new era. Yeah, the contributor license agreement might slow down contributions, but my sense is the project is looking at this, they're looking at the possibilities of selling something like this little starter package,

and they're thinking, what are the chances that we're going to turn away thousands of developers? Probably pretty low. People that want to contribute are still going to contribute. We're not seeing a lot of new people coming in anyways, and we've got this problem. We've got to solve this, and people are relying on this software and i i think i would prefer this move over say adding advertising to element which seems like it could be a thing maybe if the advertising market was in a better state right now maybe that would have been more attractive but

how do you feel about that brent like you the cla obviously none of us are comfortable with this we know how the community feels about this but if if we're in a situation where it's a matter of survival, would you take this over ads? uh, the sentiment that happens when the, uh, sort of financial setup for a project isn't really figured out at first. Uh, you know, they've been operating for years and trying to figure out, you know, what's the right recipe for, for element and the matrix foundation. And hopefully this is going to work for them because then I think we would feel much better about it, but it just feels like there have been some significant projects in the last year that have really changed their licensing in a way that us open source folks don't feel that comfortable about. So let's just hope it's not headed in that direction. Yeah, it really does fit in that,

right? We've seen things like Terraform recently. In their announcement here, they note that they took some particular inspiration from Grafana. I suppose we don't really know. We'll see how much, you know, what impact does the CLI have. And, you know, we still have an AGPL-licensed Synapse that we get to use and deploy and do whatever we want with. I think maybe the question will be going forward, you know, are there major features that we really thought should have been part of that, that, you know, that we just don't see? What changes about the development of the open source pieces that we know and love? And does anything else get better?

Is there more attention put on some of the polish and the element layer with this new sort of scheme? I don't know, but maybe, I kind of feel for them because they started out as this small project that was mostly like self-hosters and smaller groups. Right. But then all of a sudden their governments picking it up, like I think it was the government of France shifted to using matrix and very, very large deployments. And yet they're still not able to pay the bills so i imagine that they didn't come across this decision lightly yeah it's it's a battle for survival out there and sometimes you got to make hard decisions that's a good point i bet you they did not come at this lightly. This is probably something they've been debating internally because everybody at this point knows how everyone in the community feels about CLAs. continue. But I think the shift for me that's now taken place is I'm going to be a little more critical in my analysis. I'm going to be a little more skeptical, I guess I should say, maybe not

critical, but I'm going to be a little more skeptical and I'm going to be watching a little more closely now just because this is really important. And, you know, I just saw that Noah had a chat with, oh, I'm blanking on the individual's name from Canonical. But he was over there at the Ubuntu Summit, and he had a chat with a Canonical staffer on his Ask Noah show about their migration over at Canonical to Matrix. I think that's fantastic. But you don't want to see this stuff kind of happen. So we'll definitely keep an eye on that. And there's one other story that's developed this week that I sort of just caught

from the scuttlebutt here at the Adopting Bitcoin conference. And I hadn't really seen anyone talking about this. And it appears that along with the Bitcoin dev mailing list and literally every other mailing list that the Linux Foundation hosts will be coming to an end later this year. Linux Foundation hosts will be coming to an end later this year, and they have to move somewhere else. This isn't really been publicly announced, but the background here is that the Linux Foundation actually started to make moves in 2017. They internally attempted to migrate all of the Linux Foundation hosted mailing lists, and there's some big ones like the Linux kernel and the Bitcoin dev mailing lists are some of the biggest. They attempted to migrate all of them to like Mailman 3 back in 2017 from Mailman 2. That didn't work. There was reports of scalability

issues and there was outages and they just kind of rolled it back and didn't really have a final solution. And it seems like this is the final solution is screw it. Hosting email is hard. I know the Linux Foundation, we have all this money that we barely spend on Linux and free software, but we just can't be arsed to spend it on setting up email infrastructure because infrastructure is hard. And so we need to move it off. And I'm bitter about this. I'm very bitter about this because the Linux Foundation

has a real, real role here where they can be kind of a neutral provider of these mailing list services for all these different open source and free software projects, some of which are competitors. And they're pulling the plug. Can't some of those cloud members donate some email hosting, some of which are competitors. And it's, they're pulling the plug. Can't some of those cloud members donate some email hosting, you know, come on.

You know, I'm like Element, I can understand the decision they just made, right? They're, they're barely surviving. The Linux Foundation is raking in money. And I don't remember the exact number, but it's right around 3% or something like that is what they spend on Linux from their budget. They publish their budget every year. You can go look at the corporate PDF if you like to do that kind of thing. Apparently I do. And you go look at it and you see exactly how much money they're spending on Linux. And it is the least of their expenses.

They spend more on blockchain technology and vaccine research than they do on Linux. And now they're spending even less eventually at the end of the year. And I don't know what's going on at the Linux Foundation, but every single insight that I get behind the scenes into what's going on over there makes me very concerned. And they don't seem to be talking about this. I don't know how this is going to affect all of the free software projects that rely on these services. Just, I don't know. I don't know if they're going to give them a migration to some other host or if it's just go figure it out yourself. Sorry, the service that we providing all these free software projects, all these developers who are working on important free software that don't have time to run email

servers. Sorry, you're going to have to go do that now. It also just seems to me like if the Linux foundation can't figure out how to self-host email, is it the end of decentralized email? Because like, come on, they must have someone they can reach out to who are experts, right? Like that feels hopeless. think brent just volunteered yeah yeah there you go could be a good show in episode you definitely don't want me doing anything like that true yeah there you go screw do it no no no no maybe that's the problem everybody just said no i guess you know if they're running mailman if they really are still running on Mailman 2, that's old. That's really, really old.

But, you know, that doesn't mean you just throw everything out. I don't know. I'm trying to see when Mailman 2 came out. But it was so long ago that it's not even quickly findable. It's been a while. It's been a long time. So I'm sure this has been in the works. we'll keep it we'll keep our ear to the ground i don't know maybe maybe everybody's just fine hosting their own mail services and nobody cares

but to me it it just feels like one more thing that the linux foundation could be doing better that they're not doing now okay what if we host the mailing list on the blockchain. There you go. Yeah, sure. That could get expensive. Well, I'll tell you what's not on the blockchain. That is the Tuxes. And we'd love to get your vote, nominate your favorite projects for us to review and celebrate this year. You can go to tuxes.party and we have a pretty quick, it's not perfect, but a pretty quick NextCloud form you can fill out and link there at the top. If we missed anything this year, one thing we're doing differently is instead of having you email it in or boost it in or however you might want to tell us via matrix or whatever, we're just going to create a dedicated NextCloud form. If we miss

something, you can put it in there and then we have it in what's called a database and we can just query it and collate it. It's going to be fantastic. So tuxes.party. Go over there. The form's pretty quick. It'll take you like three minutes, not even. And then if we miss something, you can let us know in that other form, and then we'll do the votes soon.

We're actually getting it out there kind of on time this year, sort of. We probably should have done a couple weeks sooner, but you have probably another week or two to go out there and get your votes. Tuxes.party. All right, let's talk Fedora 39, guys. It is Fedora 39. It released yesterday. This is the release party. Yes, not only is it Fedora 39 day on the show here, but it's actually kind of a Fedora week. This week is Fedora Appreciation Week 2023. And they say today is a special day, a day where we celebrate 20 years of Fedora. We have come a long way since our humble beginnings on November 6th, 2003. To celebrate 20 years of Fedora, join in on some programming that's happening this week. We have some links to some of that programming.

And I found a really nice forum post with some photographs and favorite moments that the Fedora community has been sharing. And if you want to get like the fuzzy feels for a project, just go there. Like there's so many smiles, like people from all over the place at different conferences and meetups and stuff like that. It's just reminding me that, you know, these projects are human-based first. I know we get all excited about the features and stuff, but none of that happens without those people really dedicating their time and their energy and their hearts to doing all of this. So kudos to them. 20 years. How does that make you feel, boys? 20 years of Fedora. God. You know, I remember getting upset that they killed Red Hat and they had this new Fedora core thing. And man, I can't believe that was 20 years ago. Things really have gotten so much better. And looking back, it seems like an inevitable choice.

Like they had to go this route, especially now with Fedora sort of leading the RHEL development pack at the very beginning edge and sent off stream and then RHEL. Like there's this clear, if you want to contribute to stream, you should really start in Fedora. Like there's a whole path that all kind of makes sense now. It's all very clean. It took us a long time to get here, but looking back at it now, I don't know. Drew, you've been a Red Hat follower for a long time. Can you imagine a world where things had gone differently and we never got Fedora Core? No.

I mean, I've been playing with Fedora since Fedora Core, like, four, which I think was even before Yum was a thing. So, yeah, it's hard for me to imagine. Like I used Linux before that, but it's hard for me to imagine using Linux other than Fedora just because it's been so, so, so, so long. And, you know, I'll drift off and play around with like Ubuntu or Linux Mint or something here and there. But I've always come back to Fedora. So, no, it doesn't register with me of a world where there's just not this OS.

It seems like it was always going to be inevitable. So, yes, here we are. And now we got version 39. Yeah, enough of this waxing poetic. We've got features to talk about, folks. We've got GNOME 45, I mean, GNOME 45. Thank you. Also, LibreOffice 7.6, if you're into that kind of thing. LLVM 17.

And our dear Linux kernel 6.5. As well as the new GCC 13.2, Python 3.12, which I'm particularly excited about. I think it makes for a pretty nice little dev machine. And maybe the most important feature, a bash prompt that has a little color by default. You know what? I like it. I'm here for it. I like a little color in my bash prompt.

I'll admit it. You know, you need something to keep you entertained while you're installing Phish. That's true. And I like when I do an LS. I like my folders to look different than my files, Wes. I like it to look different. Something kind of neat in here, too, that I think we'll

touch on a little bit later, but I just want to tease it now, is we also got a new immutable variant with 39. And this one, it's called Onyx, and it's based on the Budgie desktop. It makes its official debut in Fedora 39. And, yeah, we'll get into that in a moment. But before we do, I want to talk about a couple of things that didn't make it in Fedora 39. I want to talk about a couple of things that didn't make it in Fedora 39. And I think probably the one that most people listening will care about, because this is going to trick going to be around the end of life of fedora 38 so when fedora 38 comes end of life

so does modularity and they say it's just due to bugs um it's due to no maintainers just kind of they don't have support on the Red Hat side to maintain modularity anymore. This strikes me as surprising because modularity was sold to us as a solution to ail systems that need to mix and match different versions. Like maybe, you know, you need a specific version of Python like Wes just mentioned. And maybe for some reason you're not ready to switch to a newer version of Python, like Wes just mentioned. And maybe for some reason, you're not ready to switch to a newer version of Python. You know, you're not ready for Python 3.12. In theory, with modularity, you could subscribe to the Fedora 38 repo and get the older version of Python. And this has a different name in RHEL.

They have a more branded commercial name for this functionality, but that functionality was born in Fedora. They call it in Fedora modularity, and then it makes it into RHEL. They're phasing that out. I don't really know if that's going to affect a lot of people listening. Was that the other name?

Maybe, yeah. That might have been it, Wes. Yeah, and maybe it's just not much of an issue anymore with containers. You got Podman that's super available. You got Docker images. And then on the desktop side, you got snaps and flat packs. Maybe modularity just wasn't needed as much anymore. Yeah, I think containers is the real story here.

Because, you know, working in enterprise with RHEL, you know, I use the modular repos in RHEL a fair amount, but all of that stuff's also getting phased out and moved into containers, which is really the right direction to go with it. So in one sense, I'm kind of sad that modularity is disappearing, but at the other, there's a UBI for everything. And if they're stretched thin, right? Yeah, focus on the more modern way to distribute software. Honestly, I think trying to solve a lot of this at the package manager has really led us down the route of people sitting on RHEL releases well beyond when they should, because updating your system is scary. Apps have certain requirements. They have certain expectations, maybe even compliance rules. And so people end up running very specific versions of RHEL so they can be compliant, so they can be stable or whatever it is.

And it's just such an old busted way to distribute software. And modularity kind of leans into that method where the UBI images and things like that make it so that way the base OS could be a little more flexible, could be a bit more dynamic, could be more kept up to date. But your applications running in that UBI image, they're going to remain static. They're not going to get affected by a base system update. That's probably a better solution. One other thing.

This is the one I was probably the most disappointed to see removed. I'm sure it'll make it for 40. most disappointed to see removed. I'm sure it'll make it for 40, but that new web installer we told you about, that's actually really neat. That gives you some cool options that we haven't seen before that had to be put on hold. There were some ongoing bugs and I thought this was actually pretty, pretty cool on the Fedora team's part, you know, cause there's a lot of ego maybe in something like this as a brand new project. It was a big centerpiece, got a lot of attention and it's something everybody's going to see when they install the distro. And it's a lot of ego maybe in something like this. It's a brand new project. It was a big centerpiece, got a lot of attention, and it's something everybody's going to see when they install the distro, and it's a big deal to replace the installer.

I could see the new project being very excited, and what that team did I really respect is they said, look, we've got bugs, and we're not exactly sure how long it's going to take us to resolve these bugs, and what we think we should do is we think we should punt for the 39 release. So that way, the existing Anaconda maintainers could start resolving some bugs that were known in Anaconda for 39

that hadn't been worked on because they were planning for a new installer. And so the new installer team said, we'll hit pause, we'll step back, we'll punt for one release, so that way the Anaconda people don't have to sit here and wait around for us for another week or two while we figure out what's going on, and then they have to rush. And specifically, they didn't want that team to have to work nights and weekends to get

Anaconda in shape for Fedora 39. And I really respect that decision, because that had to be a tough call, because there was so much hype around that installer. Yeah, I was a little disappointed, I'll be honest. I think just because we kind of got the taste of exciting new installers, you know, with 2310 coming out. And Anaconda's feeling, it's feeling old. You Anaconda hater. Yeah, and remember that new installer has some really cool options for remote installs and standing up pre-configured systems.

And also it had just a nice UI for just a real old regular desktop install. I was really skeptical when they said, we're going to do a Fedora installer that's web UI. I was like, oh, this is going to be great, guys. Yeah, make my installer an Electron app. But I was wrong. It was really well done. And the ability to pull up the installation of a machine in a web browser from another computer, like a laptop or something is really sweet.

I really liked that functionality. So I'll be keeping an eye on seeing where that installer goes because I'm very hopeful it lands at 40. And I have to imagine it will, unless there's some other showstoppers that come up. We'll keep an eye on that. Linode.com slash unplugged head on over there get a hundred dollars and 60 day credit support the show and check out the exciting news because linode they're now part of akamai yeah yeah that

akamai all the tools we love though like their cloud manager that's beautiful the api the command line client that's so handy that stuff that, that's there. You can still build, deploy, like we always talk about, like Linode's so famous for. But now they're backed. They've combined their powers with Akamai. So now they've got Akamai's global reach and network, which is the best. And they're expanding their services to offer more computing resources in more areas. This is really nice to see right now. And we've just recently taken advantage of

one of their new locations as well. And you're still getting that reliable, affordable, scalable solution that we love and our listeners have been loving for years now. And the best part about Linode is they've got a price point that's going to work for a business or an individual of any size, small business, a personal project, or an entire enterprise. And with their super fantastic infrastructure that's fast, reliable, easy to backup, easy to manage, an enterprise is going to find it really, really beyond what they need. I mean, I have to tell you, I was so shocked at the loads I could throw on some of these Linodes, even at the lower price points. Linode's even at the lower price points. And I went and checked and we verified they have Fedora 39 already set up for deployment over on Linode. That's crazy. They're really killing it over there. And with the additional data centers they're rolling out and the more resources to help you grow your project or your business, it just seems like a great time to go over to

Linode. While some of the other providers are struggling, Linode is just rising. So why wait? Go get the $100, support the show, see why all of our listeners have been loving it, and go see why Linode, now Akamai, is getting even better. Go to linode.com slash unplugged, see what they're up to, and scale your applications from the cloud all the way out here to San Salvador. I can tell you it works linode.com slash unplugged now when we decided to have a look at fedora 39 i did the usual sleuthing and i know you gentlemen do that too i looked at you know the change logs and some of the features and i always do this looking for like the thing that stands out.

And it's line by line. So just go in line by line. Oh, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's interesting. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's a new immutable desktop with Budgie on it. Oh, yeah.

Okay. And then there's the terminal. Wait a second. And that's what really hit me was, wait, they just came out with a brand new immutable variant based on Budgie called Onyx. And it's just like a one liner. So I knew immediately that's that's the one I had to try this time around. So that's exactly what I did. And I got to say, Chris, you know, that notes PC that you have in the garage and you threw enlightenment on it or, well, you didn't.

And we were kind of impressed by like these lighter desktops. I got the exact same feeling, but even more so with Budgie. Once, you know, I went through the installer and everything, it's just like super smooth, extremely fast, really gorgeous and just like simple, but it has everything that you need. And this is coming from, you know, someone who absolutely adores plasma and I probably have way too many settings set in KD plasma, but my experience, at least with budgie, but also combined with just the immutable experience that the install was super easy. All of the encryption, which, you know, I test every time because I don't know, 20% of the time it doesn't work uh was super super smooth and i i might disappoint

you guys and say that i i didn't in all my testing this week i didn't find a single bug that at least i could report to you so whoa is that that's a first i don't know whoa i know so maybe i'm slipping i I don't know. I mean, first you're coming at us saying you're liking a GTK desktop, and then you're coming in with an even harder hit of finding no bugs. You're selling this hard. This sounds like a Notes PC winner. This is really nice. Yeah, and so I dug into it a little bit more,

and it sounds like each version of Onyx which it's called uh will be updated for about 13 months which is a nice cycle um of course you if you remember when we looked at silver blue in what was it like uh that was a while ago gentlemen uh linux unplugged 468 the read only scenario i would recommend if you kind of forget the details like i sort of did uh silver blue is super interesting and we did we do a deep dive there so that would be a good refresher if you need it but you know applications are all flat packs there's rpm os tree under the hood and you get a bunch of rollbacks for free just because of the way it's all designed and uh so they're Onyx is joining its immutable siblings,

Silverblue, there's Kinoite, there's also Serasea. Am I saying that right? That's with the Sway desktop and, of course, CoreOS. So I feel like there's a whole family now. And the main kind of feeling that I got, which I think we got with Ubuntu's Core desktop when we looked at it a couple weeks ago, was just like, immutable is here to stay. You know, we've got NixOS, Geeks, we've got Silver Blues and the OpenSUSE and Micro S's and Vanilla, and they're just like endless. They're endless, I tell you.

So I just, I might be leaning into this immutable thing. You guys might see me on an immutable desktop here in some short time. Oh, I get it. Brent didn't break it because Brent couldn't break it. That's Brent proof, isn't it? Hey, yeah. Hey, that's a good endorsement right there. So I'll tell you about my experience in a bit.

I did not play with the Budgie desktop, though I'm kind of regretting that. Drew, did you get a chance to kick the tires? I did, but not with Budgie. I went for stock, sorry, Genome. I almost slipped up there. I wanted to just kind of see how it is stock. You know, coming from my Choose Linux roots, I always like to look at the defaults and see what most people are going to see when they boot it up for the first time. And I was very impressed, like I have been for the past, I don't know, 10 releases almost.

And that's what really strikes me about Fedora these days, is that there's always this feeling of continuance. The release that comes out today doesn't feel like a huge departure when you're going with the stock settings from the release that you were running yesterday. Sure, things are a little fancier. Maybe it's a little faster in some areas, some bugs are squashed, but it doesn't feel like a whole new experience like it used to. And that definitely has come across again with 39. It's not from an end user perspective. It's not a huge, huge upgrade. It's the next step.

And there are some really great things in here, like Genome 45 is a fantastic upgrade from Genome 44. It's not changing everything up on you, but there are some really nice quality of life improvements. I really enjoy the new icons. I enjoy the new activities button. I enjoy the way that you switch virtual desktops has seen just a little minor upgrade. It just feels nicer, feels more modern, and is really a pleasure to work with. Beyond that, there is one really cool feature that I did want to discuss, and that is they have made a change to vm.max__map__count in syscontrol. That may sound like it's something really crazy, but no, it really is just to increase compatibility with Wine and Proton so that more games work.

Just one simple little change. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, that's it. And all of a sudden, you get better compatibility. You love to see that kind of stuff. I want to echo your comments, too, on Genome 45. The activities overview button is so slick.'s a it's now a dynamic workspace indicator and when i first loaded fedora 39 because this is my first time to use genome 45 i thought oh that's

a new a new icon for like the activities overview and it wasn't until i switched my first virtual desktop and i saw the slick little pill-like animation as it moves either right or left, depending on which desktop you're choosing. And I realized, oh, that's an activities button that's also a desktop indicator. They've combined it into one and they just got rid of an extension that I always install. I always install a workspace indicator extension. So that way, when I come back to a computer after a little bit and I turn on the screen, I know what workspace I'm on. I know it's a weird thing, but I just like a number that says, hey, man, you're on workspace three. Thanks, computer.

Thanks for giving me information that makes me work better. And they've just built it in and they built it in better than any extension implementation I've ever seen. It has a slick little movement that isn't distracting, but is very intuitive. And it's these, and this is a small thing to point out, but to Drew's point, each individual release isn't revolutionary. You know, you're not moving the gas pedal between 38 and 39, but if you're on Fedora 35, if you're on Fedora 36, 37, 39, you get a bunch of new stuff and it's not going to be jarring, but it's a big change in a positive way. And I think these incremental improvements that we get on the six month cycle are really fantastic for easing into these new issues. Now, one area

that we didn't get into with extensions is there is an API change there. But I'll touch on some of that in a little bit because I'm kind of wondering what Wes got to poke around with with the old 39. You know, if I'm honest, I'm kind of struggling with where to put 39, especially in the shadow of the recent Ubuntu interim release, 23.10, which I think we were all kind of surprised just by how much we enjoyed it. And I really like Fedora 39, but I guess as y'all are alluding to, there's not really, I mean, discounting Genome, there's not a lot of other show-stealing things. It's just a lot of nice little improvements in a ton of areas. So you kind of have to either just appreciate that or look around for the trends and things that just keep getting better. So some things that kind of stood out to me, I noticed that

one of the changes was making Toolbox a release-blocking deliverable in 39, and I presume in the future, which means like Toolbox has got to be ready and working. And I think that's nice because Toolbox has been one of the nicest little sort of easy dev UX features of Fedora for a while now. Agreed. That's really good to see. They're taking it very seriously now is what that says to me. Yeah, and that's something that Brent is going to become intimately familiar with if he's really starting to get into the immutable thing, too.

Yeah, it is great for immutable systems. Oh, gosh. Thank you for the foreshadowing. There's also some more enterprise-y friendly changes here, like improved Passkey support. So if you have centrally managed users on Fedora, which is well-supported, maybe you've got Active Directory, FreeIPA, LDAP, now there's better support via libfido2

for Fido2-comIDO2 compatible devices, which, okay, maybe we don't use here at the JB Studio, but if you're using Linux systems out there in the enterprise, it might be nice. Yeah, for sure. And something sponsored by a former guest of the show, Major Hayden, is Fedora Images on

Azure. Hmm. Hmm. Fedora on Azure. Fedora Cloud. Fedora Cloud variant on Azure. Um, I guess. Great. Hmm. Fedora on Azure, Fedora Cloud, Fedora Cloud variant on Azure. Um, I guess. Great. Great. That's, I mean, that's going to open up Fedora to a bunch of users, right? Yeah. I mean, it's just one of those small little things like, yeah, you could already get it. You could find ways to do it, but, um, it just makes Fedora, which is the, can be pretty, pretty nice if you, uh, you know, if it makes sense for your workloads in the cloud, all the more easy to install. And then I think outside of that, you kind of got to look at all the updated software,

which is always a nice part of using Fedora, especially if maybe you use it in a container environment. There is Python 3.12, which is a great release of Python. And there's the Linux 6.5 kernel, which I know we have all been hyped up on the latest kernels, especially as we get overly excited about vCacheFS. But Linux 6.5 came out just last August, which isn't that long ago, and it was a good kernel all by itself. It includes stuff like MIDI 2.0 support, as well as initial USB 4.0 v2 support. Lots of improvements to file systems like ButterFS. port, lots of improvements to file systems like ButterFS, and it's got this funny new mount API that lets you mount a file system under another file system. Yeah, not on top of, but under. All right.

I'll play around with that. That seems kind of neat. Yeah, I think you're totally right. 6.5 is a great kernel. I'll care when we do get BcacheFS, then I'm going to be like, all right, got to have that latest kernel. That's, yeah. MIDI 2.0 support, I don't know how that's going to change our life, but there may be some sort of use case for that for us. That may be a little feature we end up using one day.

I think it's more gazing at the future. There's really not a whole lot going on in MIDI 2 yet. the future. There's really not a whole lot going on in MIDI 2 yet. It's a protocol, and it's an extension of what's capable in MIDI 1, but I haven't seen a whole lot that actually takes advantage of it yet. Interesting that that got priority, right? That that got time then. Well, you know, you think about it, they're also getting USB 4 ready to go, and how many USB 4 devices do you own? Because I own zero. That's true. If you think about the lifecycle of a Linux kernel, and you think about devices and whatnot, yeah, the earlier you get it into a kernel, then when RHEL ships with Linux 6.7

or whatever, I don't know, I'm just making it up, then it would just be in there by default. So it's like, yeah, the sooner you can land it with that, you know, sometimes it's a year or two before those kernels start hitting end users on some distros. That way all those suckers running Fedora, yeah, they'd get the bugs out for you. More seriously though, I did agree, you know, Genome 45, it's lovely.

I'm kind of curious though, Chris, how you thought the Genome 45 implementation on Fedora compared to the version on Ubuntu? Oh, that's a good question. That's a good question because today at the conference here in San Salvador, I had a presenter who was on 2310. And so when he was done, oh God, it was so embarrassing, guys. So just a quick aside, you know, I'm up there on the stage trying to think of something to say about this guy. And I look over and I see Ubuntu. Actually, it comes up on the television because there's like a – for the presenters, there's like a preview television screen that shows you the slides.

And I see his HDMI come online and I see the 2310 desktop. And I – of course, I have to make comment about it up there on stage, right? I'm like, and here we go. This guy's here. He's here to talk about sovereign data and he's using a sovereign OS. This guy knows what's going on. He's got an Ubuntu desktop and I'm giving him praise up on stage, right? And this is a great connects right up. HDMI works first try. Libre office fires right up. Slides are working great. He has a remote clicker that they gave him. It wasn't one he brought. He plugs it in, clicks, first try, flawless, flawless. About 10 minutes into his presentation, and it was a 30-minute presentation, his battery died. And then everybody had to make the joke, oh, if it was a Mac, the battery would have lasted. Too bad it's Linux. If I just hadn't

said anything, nobody would know. But dumb Chris had to run his mouth. So after the presentation, I pulled the guy's hand. I'm like, I'm really sorry. I pointed out the fact that it's Ubuntu and then your battery died. That's really embarrassing. I'm sorry. And he's like, oh, no, it's fine.

He says, I just switched from Fedora. I'm like, oh, okay. So we started talking. What do you think about Fedora versus Ubuntu? And the impression I got from him is that stock genome is a little too stock. And he was sort of culture shocked because he hadn't been a Fedora user previously. He tried Fedora and found it to be kind of not functional for him. And so he switched back to Ubuntu because they kind of pre-configure it with extensions. And I had the conversation with him.

I was like, yeah, you know, you can go get extensions to do most of that stuff that Ubuntu is doing. Not all of them right now with 45, but give it a couple of weeks. And he just wasn't having it. To him, it's just not, it's not a full complete desktop on Fedora

versus say Ubuntu 23.10. I don't have that opinion, but I can totally understand where he's coming from to me it's like fedora's version of genome is one of the best stock implementations you can get if you want a modified version of genome you can basically get that almost everywhere it's kind of refreshing to be able to go somewhere where you get essentially the upstream projects result and then if you want to extend it with extensions that's your choice and you can do that and you know that'll work for a release probably and you can modify that workflow and um the conversation i ended up having with this gentleman is i encouraged him next time he tries fedora and

i you guys know i've said this before i'm going to say it one more time do a 30-day challenge personally you don't have to talk about it you don't have to go on social media and say you're doing a 30-day challenge just for 30 days adopt one new genome workflow that day and what I did when I did it this way is the stuff I really hated I put off towards the end and I told myself if I did it this way is the stuff I really hated, I put off towards the end, and I told myself if I got through these 30 days and I still wasn't happy, then I had every excuse in the world to give up and switch back to something else that has a traditional workflow, but at the end of that 30 days, it worked, and I like it, and it stuck, and so I just, I told him, like, next time you try it, just each day, pick one thing

about the workflow that doesn't make sense. Take a few minutes to read how to do it right. And then practice doing that right for that day. And it's, I know it's a big ask, but once you do it, you've kind of trained yourself to use bone stock genome. And that's just, that's a much better winning solution long-term. It's a great desktop. It gets out of your way. 45 is in great shape. Performance is looking really good. 46 is looking even better. It's, it's a different, it's not your grandpa's gnome anymore. It's not gnome 3.0 anymore. This is getting to something that's, well, it's of course it's 3.0, but you know what I mean? It's not like when they released gnome 3.0. It's really gotten to a place now, but I, I do empathize with folks that look at it and think, gosh, I really can't do much with this at stock.

That's how he felt. Can I tell you a secret? I haven't used extensions in years. Whoa. Not a single one. I mean, what do you just like not have like app indicators up in your toolbar and you just lived with not knowing what workspace you're on and all that kind of crazy stuff? Well, I mean, for workspaces, I could just hit the super button, and then it shows me them.

I know, but then you've got to disrupt your thing. You've got to zoom out all your windows. It's nice just to be able to, like, it's also if I could, I don't do this with extensions, but if they had a reliable extensions API, I would have like a performance monitor up there. I like to know what my CPU is doing. I like to know what my temperatures are. I want to know what my ping time is. See, to me, that's all distraction.

I prefer, you know, a little bit of minimalism in my desktop so that the OS, the UI is out of my way. And I just work on the thing that I'm working on instead of on my OS. Yeah, that's what I've really liked about GNOME in general is on the laptop, it really just gets out of my way. I still am preferring Plasma on desktops with multiple screens, but you're right. I really do think I've probably cut my extension use in half. And then when I went to 39, I didn't want to mess around with broken extensions. And I just used Fedora 39 without extensions. And, you know, I did install GNOME tweak, but outside of that, it was fine.

That is the other real benefit to rolling with just no extensions is it's so, so so so stable and fast brent how many uh budgie extensions did you have to install again you know i actually didn't feel like i was missing anything which is uh refreshing shall i say uh every single time i try i try gnome i get that same feeling chris gets which is there's just something missing and you can add things. But that's also a way of customizing and personalizing it. So it's really depends. It's a personal choice. I won't tell you what you're supposed to do. We just need that stable extension API. That's what we need, right? A lot of these issues go away. Although you're still loading more things, it's still running more stuff in the background. So you could make the performance argument, But you're gaining performance with 45, guys.

If you install Genome 45, in most cases, your computer is going to feel faster. Hardware-accelerated video decoding is now automatically preferred when possible. Sometimes that had to be passed as an argument. Now hardware-accelerated video playback chosen by default. The Files app. The Files app has gotten multiple improvements. You're going to notice it the most when you open up a directory with a lot of thumbnails. It now has multi-threaded thumbnail rendering, amongst other things. Stutter and latency in the cursor

has been significantly reduced over multiple releases, and a lot of that work now comes together in 45. And then if you're a user of search on the desktop, that performance has been quote, greatly enhanced with several apps, including files, software, and characters. And then of course, there's new apps and goodies in here. One of the new goodies is a new camera activity indicator that appears up on your screen via pipewire. That lets you know if you're Mike or you're doing a screen recording. Like there's indicators now that let you know when those things are active. You got an open mic, you got a camera running, there's indicators now. The quick settings menu, which has been getting work on the last

couple of releases, features a new keyboard backlight setting for supported laptops and hardware that have keyboard backlights. That quick settings is getting more useful and then kind of a smaller thing but it's great to see they have a new image viewer app in this release and it's written in rust And looking ahead, boys, we now have official word that Plasma 6.0 has been approved for Fedora 40. I mean, I know we're not even done talking about 39 yet, but right? That's exciting. It's great to see. And you know what else that means? They're going to drop the X11 session.

So for both GNOME and Plasma plasma they're dropping x11 that's actually kind of a big deal yeah that feels like a big one huh for both for the both major desktops i thought it would take like a decade or something for us to get there so this feels good i'm like well it has let's go uh yeah it kind of has. Well, still a little apprehensive. I have to imagine within probably 30 minutes of Fedora 40 coming out, there's going to be some way to get X going. I think where the problem comes in, Wes, I'm curious to know your thoughts on this. It's like you could get X11 running, but it doesn't necessarily mean the projects are building support for that stuff anymore. Like they're kind of moving forward and they're not really building for X.

Yeah. I suppose it's going to be a question of uh you know how many flags got tweaked where and uh how much stuff you kind of got to rebuild or rehack or reconfigure and restart to um get it all back but you know we'll always have demian well and something close to my heart that recently got a linux beta they call it a beta it really feels more like an alpha but studio Studio One on Linux is Wayland only. That's proprietary corporate software. Interesting. That might be the first proprietary commercial app I know of that's Wayland only. I'm not like I'm looking, but that's noteworthy, Drew. That's a big deal. I mean, imagine the conversations their support department's going to have to have with customers that try to get their work in. It's a huge deal.

It's a huge indicator that people are really starting to take Wayland a lot more seriously, in my opinion. Collide.com slash unplugged. Now, this is perfect for those of you that are in security, you do IT, anybody working with Okta, I've got something neat for you. We all know that for years now, the problem has really been things that happen on the end user system or with their credentials. And that leads to headaches for end users. Could be they've messed their system up, could be a security issue, could be they clicked a phishing link in an email or maybe just a service they use got compromised. I mean, the list goes on and on. And of course, IT has to ensure that secure devices and only secure devices are connecting to the network. And they have to get these problems solved for the end users so they can get their work done. This is life draining stuff. You'll never have enough mana to deal with these problems because they never end.

That's where Collide comes in. It's a solution to this challenge. It's for security and IT folks that work with Okta. Collide ensures that only secure devices can access your network and your cloud apps. So say goodbye to compromised credentials or dealing with out-of-date systems. And yes, Collide manages Windows, Linux, and MacOS from a single pane of glass. It gives IT the ability to check on the fleet of systems, run audits, check compliance, but even better, it empowers users to solve problems directly.

Collide works with end users through really smart, intelligent, easy messaging to help them resolve some of the issues themselves before they even have to contact you so they can just get right to work and IT doesn't have to deal with that. It really is pretty great and they've put together a demo so you can experience this firsthand. Go discover it at collide.com slash unplugged. That's K-O-L-I-D-E dot com slash unplugged. See the demo. It's a great way to support the show, too. And see if this couldn't maybe solve some problems for you.

Because I know this was sucking the life out of me when I was in IT. And I want you to have a better solution than I did back then, back in the day. So go to KOLIDE. That's K-O-L-I-D-E dot com slash unplugged. Now, we got some great feedback in Matrix this week. Hybrid Sarcasm sent us a little note. Chris, we've been getting a lot of feedback on Proxmox. Hybrid Sarcasm writes,

Hey, I just finished episode 534. Guys, one can administer Proxmox using the CLI without missing anything. There's no functional reason for the GUI. And for modifying various files, it's just a characteristic and it being based on pure Debian. Whatever isn't desirable about Proxmox to our hosts isn't because it's Proxmox. It's because it's not Nix. You know, I actually think that impression is because I just did such a crap job at explaining it because it's like a philosophy. It's not a technical issue.

It's not because it has a GUI. That's why I wanted to try it out is because it had a GUI. I did not use it because it has a GUI. I don't know how to properly explain this. If anybody understands what I'm saying, maybe you could write in a better explanation than i'm managing to get across but it is it's the same reason we switched off of trunas trunas is a great product works for a lot of you out there ran it for years and then one day i had problems and i really at that moment more than anything in the world just wished it was a free bsd or a linux system so i didn't have to solve what was wrong with the trunas management whatever

layer and i could just solve the underlying problem and ultimately that's when we moved our server to an archbox we moved from trun, I think, or I can't remember exactly which. I can't remember if it was TrueNAS. But we moved from the NAS software to CentOS briefly and then to Arch ultimately because we wanted to simplify the system down. So that way we were just working with the primitives because, again, we're not going to run four or five of these in a cluster. We're not going to migrate VMs between systems. We're not going to run four or five of these in a cluster. We're not going to migrate VMs between systems. We're not going to run a Proxmox backup server. I'm not going to go learn and take schooling to be a better Proxmox administrator.

What I would prefer to do for things that I'm putting in production that are important for the business, I would prefer to take the existing skill set that I am developing with Nix, but if it was Ansible or whatever it would be, if I'm already investing in that skill set, why not just continue to build on that and continue to invest in there and just become more competent in that space instead of trying to learn multiple things at once. And then when you're thinking about something that's in production, something that has to be troubleshot, that has to be fixed in anger, I want to be able to work on the base system. And I know I'm not explaining it right, but I hope that makes sense.

It's not because it has a UI. It's none of that. It's just simply too much. It's more than I need. I need a manual pickup truck that maybe has a dash radio and that's it, right? And I don't need anything more than that. And what I got was like an F-350 with the Lariat package, seat heaters, touchscreen, self-driving Blue Cruise and all this stuff. And it's great. And man, if I was going down a long road trip and I was pulling a bunch of horses or something and I wanted that'd be fantastic that's not what i'm doing i'm not doing that i just need the little cheap pickup speaking of uh oh gosh aren't we too

far an arch update oh you know danger zone we do have that old box kicking around we could do that next episode if you're crazy it's it would be the longest it's ever been since we've done an update. I mean, I think we should do it. Sounds perfect for an episode. And now it is time for the boost. We got some great boosts this week. And Mouse Down Mike came in with 54,321 sats, making him our big baller. Hey, Rich Lobster!

And boy, this is a great boost. He writes, there's a total solar eclipse the week before Texas Linux Fest on April 8th, 2024. Texas is prime viewing location, so plan to get there ahead of schedule this is the last total solar eclipse visible from north america for a while yeah i think it's like 2044 or something what a great idea now boys i know it's i know it's easy to say hey we'll just get down there a week early that'll be fine but i really think we just get down there a week early. That'll be fine. But I really think we should get down there a week early. We better start booking our trips. I think so. You know, when I saw the last eclipse, the last full solar eclipse, I promised myself I wouldn't miss the next one because I enjoyed that first one so much. And then, you know, it might be the last one in my

lifetime, depending on how I do. And I think I got to do it. I think I got to try to make it down there to Austin and see that solar eclipse before Texas Linux Fest. Are you saying that we should do a road trip or something and bring Jupes to see the eclipse as well? Can we record a lup during the eclipse? Oh my God, that'd be so cool. That'd be so cool. You're going to curse the episode. Oh my God, that'd be so cool. That'd be so cool. You're going to curse the episode. Oh.

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Also, it would be a shame. It should be entertaining at least. It'd be a shame because you know we'd totally miss the eclipse if we're focused on the show. Yeah. We'd totally miss it.

I really feel like what this trip taught me when I was sick, and I was really sick, like if I was in the States, I would have gone to the hospital. I really wish I had jupes, you know, like your bed, uh, the temperature, the way you want it matters, but even just like getting access to Tums or, um, hot water. I just wanted to take a hot shower. You know, I was feeling crappy, No hot water. No, nope, no hot water. No Tums. No grocery store where I was at. So, no. And I thought to myself, this is why I travel with the RV. Because I have my recording set up.

I have my work set up. I have my home set up. I got all my stuff. I'd love to take Jupes down there to Austin. That'd be a killer trip. Max Space Boost in with 50,000 cents. This is my first Boost-o-gram ever. Hey!

Chris was working with Lunduk on the Linux Action Show when I found him, and I fell in love with all of JB and Unfilter. When Unfilter ended, Chris mentioned NoAgenda, which I'd never heard of, and I switched to NoAgenda for media deconstruction. Then I started following Podcasting 2.0, and, well, here I am boosting JB as my podcasting world goes full circle. That's so great to hear. Thank you, first of all, for taking the time to get the boost set up. I know that initial setup process isn't the most straightforward.

We are pioneering a new system here. So I always want to take a moment and thank somebody for doing that. I really, I really like also hearing from a long timer. It's, it's been a minute since we got a boost from a real long timer like that. And I agree. Hashtag go podcasting.

It has been a really neat experience chatting with people about podcasting to do here. There's really more than I can keep track of now hosting services to compete with things like Fireside and Libsyn that are full-on podcasting 2.0. I mean, music support, boosts, live stream, everything. There's two services launching this week and both of them look like they're worth signing up for. There was a service that launched a month ago and then earlier this year, there's multiple services. And there's also the Podcast Mirror service now, and they just announced that you can now pay for the Podcast

Mirror with Sats, basically putting them in as a split. I mean, it's really coming together, and now people are starting to build businesses around this. So people that aren't really looking into podcasting 2.0, pretty soon, you're not going to have a choice because it's coming to you. The industry needs these solutions like chapters and transcripts and all of this stuff, like alternative enclosures and live streams. They need that in a standardized way, boys, and it's happening. And I am so stoked. I can't talk about it yet, but the stuff I've seen being worked on is, I can't believe we're there already. I cannot believe we're there already. I mean, I'm kind of excited about it. Chris, I think this next boost might be targeted at me, but you'll tell me, right?

MCZP boosted in with 50,000 sats from Casomatic, simply saying, have you moved those sats yet? Uh-oh. Now, Brent. Oh. I'm now, I mean, are you getting in the hole here? Like, I think you owe me some sats, too. Like, what's going on over there? Oh, I do.

Actually, yeah, I do. Ooh, sorry, guys. Chris, you bought me some RAM for my new framework, and you were kind enough to, you know, I'm from out of country. I don't know what I'm doing when I'm in the U.S., and you so kindly paid for it with that fancy expedited Amazon-ing to the studio. And I promised to pay you back in Satoshis and I have failed you. So I'll add it to the to-do list. It won't be the top item. No, it's fine. I'm happy to give it to you. You know, it's funny. I bought lunch today and it wasn't quite a row of McDucks. It was 22,228 sats or something. But I looked, I was like, wow, I just paid a row of McDucks for lunch.

Maybe they were a listener. No, they didn't think it was that interesting. Maybe they were a listener. No, they didn't think it was that interesting. Actually, unfortunately, Chris, I think this might be a historical oopsie that we've forgotten to do. Do you remember we used to have that node set up where I was collecting, you know, in the early days? Well, let's be honest. We weren't going to move that node this week while travel's happening. But we should get to that next week.

Yeah. That's what I said two weeks ago when I was traveling. I've had a calendar item since Linux Fest because I, you know, S U C D kindly in person told me, Hey, you're tying up my sats here with your old. Yeah.

Come on, man. So I, I, every like third day I get a notification saying that I need to do that. And I've been diligent on not dismissing it. I've been moving it. So we will get there and I apologize.

Well, Chris, it turns out that anonymous bought your lunch because they sent over 22,222 sets and then an additional 30,723 sets and two boosts. Hi there. Thanks for the great shows. Here is my Nix config. Also, they asked you to check out Nix GitHub Actions and a Rust Nix Flake CI example. And they also say, cheers.

Thanks for all you do and for the introductions to Nix and Rust. Also, the previous boost was my first boost ever. Hey! After using getalby.com to set it all up. If you add seven to the end of the boost amount, you get my zip code. To the map!

Oh, boy. Thank you for setting up and taking the time to send a boost in. That's it? Two first boosters? That's great. All right, Wes. Looks like you got you got uh the map with you but can you find the location i believe this is a postal code in phoenix arizona hey i bet it's warm down there at least sometimes you know phoenix arizona actually gets more rain than seattle so bust your misconceptions right there everybody i know i know i think you're

looking at the wrong map here. Yeah, it's true. Believe it or not, it is true. When you should be looking at these Nix configs, there's some stuff in here about VirtualBox. I see a note here about switching back to Hyperland. I don't know. There's probably some gems. Yeah, I'm going to be looking at this once we wrap up here. I should have pulled this up before the show

because I love going through Nix configs. I will definitely do it. Also, the GitHub Nix Actions. Wes, does this ring a bell for you? Yeah, Determinant Systems have made a couple different things like the action to install Nix as well as a handy-dandy Nix store cache setup that integrates with the Actions cache on the backend.

And then this article makes the case about how GitHub actions can, you know, there's a lot of sort of prepackaged ones, but they can be kind of a bespoke interface where you have one version you run via actions and then one maybe you do via a script or install some other way. And Nix can unify all that. So if you make it really easy to get Nix going in your action or CI step, then all the same stuff you use in your development environment with Nix works right there.

I really like the way that he set up his GitHub, too. This is slick looking. This is kind of inspiring me to do better. I have to be honest. Oh, that's great. Thank you, Anonymous, for the boost. Really appreciate it. Mr. Libre comes in with 25,000 sats using Fountain.

He says, it looks like BcacheFS has been merged into Linux 6.7. Here's some value for the years of past and future coverage. And Mr. Libre links us to the mailing list announcement about BcashFS in 6.7, which pretty exciting. Yeah, I mean, I haven't switched over my rootFS yet, but it's coming. It's definitely coming. Yeah, yeah. I think you might want to wait a little bit because Michael Arable over at Feromics just did some benchmarks on bcacheFS. Always fun to see that. And definitely hit some bugs.

He hit a couple of bugs that he wasn't expecting. It's early days, right? I mean, it's fine. Nobody's losing data on vCacheFS. There are already some performance improvements pending on the mailing list, too, to address some of that. So hopefully some better tests in the future. Oh, that's great to hear. Jono boosts in with 23,456 sats. Many folks store their system configs and.files in Git. Instead, I keep mine in Sync

Thing, using a subfolder for each machine in my network. On each machine, I symlink in the configs. This is really useful if one of my configs breaks. I can go to a machine that works, fix the file there, then it just auto-syncs to the broken machine. Think like the configuration.nix. Also, I use Duplicati over Wireguide to a friend's house for my backups, so if I bork all my configs, I can always roll back to yesterday or even last month. Jono, this is kind of like... That is slick. This is, yeah, it sounded like a setup I would roll. I mean, first of all,

I'm constantly wondering if i should be using sync thing to manage my config a little bit better and move things around between machines and you've gone here and done it you've proven the theory and i'm the only thing i if you feel like doing a follow-up boost john i'd like to know is are you doing like a script or anything on the on a machine to like set up all the sim links? Are you sitting down like an animal for like 10 minutes and just doing like banging out like 10, 15 sim links? Like, I'm curious how that works. Cause that's always kind of where I've got hung up.

And then using duplicati, this is something I don't talk a lot about because I know people have problems with duplicati, but I've been using duplicati for ever. And it's still how I do my backups. I will advise you to look into Duplicati Restore disaster stories before you go embrace it, but I also send Duplicati over the internet using Tailscale in my case and send it to a different location for backups,

and I really like the system. I have SyncThing to move data into my network, like in the RV specifically, I batch stuff and I move it in photos and data and even audio files we're working on and clips and everything. And I batch that up over SyncThing. The RV server turns on, SyncThing wakes up,

Syncs over and then Duplicati sort of backs up all of the outputs or things like Docker configs and settings and stuff like that. And I've liked that setup a lot. And I could see simply expanding that sync thing side of it to do what you're talking about, Jono. So I would love to know how you do those symlinks on the client side. But that's a great boost.

I really appreciate that insight. You want to hear something that might be even a little bit better? Yeah. Git FS. It's a FUSE file system that mounts Git. Git out. What? God.

What I like about it is you could just say the name and I know immediately what it is. I knew it was a FUSE file system and I knew exactly what it does. what it is. I knew it was a Fuse file system, and I knew exactly what it does. Well, this next one's not quite a boost, but I think I'm going to slot it in right here, because I think it fits. In our matrix room for Linux Unplugged feedback, we got some feedback from FreeKVH. You'll see why it fits here in a moment. They say, just extended my Podverse membership. going for year number two now. It really gets better all the time and it feels good to use. I wish them all the best. The only thing I don't like, and you were asking for feedback, so here it is. The startup time

could be quite a bit better. I mean, for me, in 99.9% of cases, I use it on my phone. And it tries to sync right when I start up. And that always takes so long that by the time I bike or walk or drive out of my Wi-Fi range, it's just problematic. Also, since iOS 17, sometimes the audio is just gone until a restart. Podcasts not in the index are not functioning optimally. Tracking of listen states and current positions in podcasts, that affects all JB party member feeds, sadly. Also, the subscription ends banner is extremely intrusive. Yeah, it puts a big red banner on the top.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. And sometimes it will ask, do you want to resume this podcast you were listening to? Yes, please. Always feel free to just do that and not ask me. Sounds like a lot of issues. But again, I gladly pay for services that align with my values as I'm getting older and have some more disposable income and happy to support Podverse. Right. And I agree with him. The trend is in the right direction. And I think history has probably taught a lot of us old-time Linux users

that the GPL app or the GPL whatever is the long-term bet. You're pretty much going to get rugged on everything else. They don't mean to. They don't want to. But, you know, these things in the grand scheme of things don't always last. And Podverse is, I think that that's the long-term play there. Some of those things like playback stopping in iOS 17 might be more memory related because that's what iOS does when it runs out of memories. It just stops the audio playback on whatever app is playing in the background. It's really annoying. So those, but some of the other things just have to get worked out over time.

That's great feedback. Thank you. Magnolia mayhem boosted in with two boosts, 18,023 sets for one and 12,345 sets for the other. So the combination is one, two, three, four,

five. That's the stupidest combination I ever heard in my life. This just had to be a Spaceballs boost considering the subject matter. Somebody, Chris, brought up whether or not there is anything in space that uses a vanilla Linux kernel. Not sure if it counts, but the ISS has a bunch of Linux workstations that run pretty stock Linux. Tangent, of course, their ThinkPads. I wasn't exactly sure which Linux it was. All the sources I found either said they were just Linux or went off on the left field talking about NASA's SUSE-powered supercomputer. So I found an email

address and sent a message off asking for details. Not sure if they'll get back to me, but if they do before next week's episode, I'll boost in again with the answer. Either way, I'm pretty sure the ISS has some vanilla kernel workstations, if that even fits the criterion. Man, I think it does, right? They're in space. They're running Linux. It doesn't have to be on Mars. That totally counts. I completely forgot about the ThinkPads in the ISS. That's, man, this is a great boost. Magnolia also took the time to email somebody to try to, like, doing the boots on the ground work for the show right there. Really appreciate that value.

We have the best listeners, don't we? I feel like I read, and this was like 10 years ago, but I feel like I read that they were using Debian, like some kind of modified Debian. But again, that was a long time ago, and I have no idea what it's like these days. It's because they need X11 support, I think. Yeah. Savage. just savage hey shout out to mayhem too who just boosted in before the episode got posted because we're running late he's like i'm sure it's going to be great so here's here's 5 678 sets thanks guys let's thank you that that those little gestures mean a lot to us wait wait that means first boost was one two three four five and the second boost of five six seven eight i mean they got their math figured out.

He's got it figured out. Oh, that's perfect. Darvalin comes in with 3,000 sats across two boosts, and they're using Castomatic, one of the best podcasting 2.0 apps for iOS, and they write, 533 was a great episode. It's okay not to like something that others do, and the rationale for just using NixOS when everything else is NixOS is both the same and it's kind of understandable. He also wants to know if the SAT streaming is part of the totals that we give at the end of

the episode. And the short answer is not yet, not yet. So the totals you're hearing at the end of the episode are actually slightly undercounted. And I think it's a bit of a shame. It's just a matter of, you know, us getting the API and the script and all that stuff figured out. Because the reason why I think it's a bit of a shame is I get such an immense amount of joy from opening up the dashboard and just seeing the stats coming in. You know, imagine doing something for nearly 20 years in total silence. You don't really know people are out there. Like, you get the downloads, but it doesn't mean you're listening to it.

But when I open up that streaming dashboard, you're listening to it as those stats are coming in. And it's like, you don't know, but I know you're listening and I feel connected to you in a way that I think is extremely important for creative endeavors. And the reason why I talk about this on the air is because I want other creators out there to know

that this is available. And it's such a motivational thing to see those streaming stats. So while they're not in the totals yet, we are able to pull them in eventually. And we are keeping track of all of it. It's just not making it in the automated total amount that we read yet. But soon. Soon indeed. But first, Gene Bean boosts in with 4,444 sets, which yes, that's a double

row of ducks. I'd love to get y'all's take on VOS. I started using it and I've seen it used in businesses, but surprisingly, I don't think I've heard y'all talk about it before. When I was reading this, Chris, I thought you came up with it because you've got a nickname for Levi, which is Vi Guy, you know? Is this Levi OS? Oh, I miss Levi. He's with Grandpa right now. Couldn't bring him with us. I look forward to picking that dog up.

So this is a really cool idea. And I probably should give it some thought. I think, and I'm going off of memory here, but I seem to recall it's like a distribution, or they really consider it an OS, that's focused on building a router for your home, or maybe for a small business. And again, I could be misrepresenting because it has been a minute since I've looked it up. But that's you know when I think of like um some of the hardware we have around the studio like little mini pcs

that we could turn into a router this kind of stuff can be appealing for that you know or something like open sense but this could be another alternative to that so it's definitely something we'll put a link in the show notes because I think it's worth checking out and it's vy os yeah I think it's an offshoot of Vyada from back in the day, which, yeah, definitely had been deployed pretty widely. It was used as a sort of easy-to-go, you know, virtualized router that you could stick on things. I haven't tried V-O-S myself, but yeah,

maybe we'll stick one in the studio or something. The second row of ducks there goes on like this. You'd also asked how to make a Gen 2 install interesting for the show. This 32-bit challenge might just be the answer. Those machines come from when the performance difference of a custom-compiled OS versus a generic x86 one were actually noticeable. Aside from that, my nostalgia and thankfulness about Gen 2 boils down to how much it helped me understand what's actually done for me in modern distros. Good memory, Gene Bean. Yes, of course. That was one of the great advantages of Gen 2 back in the day. Had totally blanked on that. So 32-bit challenge. 32-bit challenge sounds like a lot of fun. I've been trying to think about how we could do this. So obviously the quick and dirty

way would be we could just artificially using kernel parameters and other things, just limit a box to 32 bits. Oh, that is a shame. Right. It would test how practical it is, I guess, to find and use 32-bit software on Linux today. But you'd be missing out, I feel like, on the critical component of the older hardware components that made it a complete experience right so like the slower disk io and not that i you know love that stuff but i feel like if you really want to talk about 30 bit 32-bit computing you got to talk about the actual 32-bit systems that are available so that is a hard problem to solve because I went and looked and I thought, what am I going to do? Get three 32-bit laptops and then like mail one to Brent and God

knows it'll get there and like wait for Wes to come pick one. Like that's, I mean, it's just, that doesn't seem super practical. So I thought, well, what if I found like a really big, powerful for, you know, back in the day, 32-bit server, and then we would just all like, you know, timeshare. Like we would just put maybe Budgie or Cinnamon on there and remote desktop into it. And all three of us try to live on the same old clunky 32-bit box for like a week. And how much fun could that be? I can't find one. I know they used to be out there. I went on eBay, but like try and try to

go to eBay as an exercise and just search for 32 bit Intel server, 32 bits. Like you don't get anything, you get nothing. So if anybody out there has like a resource like Unix surplus or something that would sell old, fairly cheap hardware to us, I'd, I'd, I'd spend a couple hundred bucks to pick up some hardware for the show. I guess another option could be, and we've had a few people write in offering to send us hardware. The thing is, is all three of us need to try it. So I don't know if that's really going to work, but I really want to do this. So keep sending in ideas. And if I got to go and pick something up or order something on eBay so we can do this, I'm willing to do that. But I just would love some links or ideas from folks out there that could boost in and tell us where to go find this stuff. Because once we get that hardware, I didn't even think about it until Gene boosted in. But like we really could, once we had 32-bit hardware hardware we could do the 32-bit challenge and then later on if we wanted we could put optimizations to the test we could try a gen 2 install on one of these systems and do a non-optimized version and do an optimized version and do an ab comparison and see

if you really get more mileage with all of the flags and everything i mean there's just if we actually got our hands on the hardware, it kind of opens up possibilities. Like we could try making a server out of one and have the audience bang on it. There's a lot of things we could do once we get it. So I'm looking for ideas on how to get our hands on some 32-bit hardware that we could actually get Linux installed on and use.

If anybody knows, please boost in. I'll chase it down. Look, I'll throw in 20 bucks if it's got a turbo button. Yes! Oh, man, love the turbo button. You know, Chris, I have a little bit of a confession on this exact topic. It turns out I've had a 32-bit computer sitting on my, like, project shelf for the last many months. Okay.

And I didn't realize it until this week. Well, there's one solved. A friend of mine said, hey, Brent, like, I've got this ancient computer that broke a long time ago, but there's this week. Well, there's one solved. A friend of mine said, Hey Brent, like, uh, I've got this ancient computer that broke a long time ago, but there's this video that I really want to extract off it. Is there anything you can do? And I said, okay, well, like, when do you need this? Uh, not a rush at all, but I found some time on Sunday actually, because we didn't end up recording. And I thought, geez, now I have an open slot in a Sunday and I feel like kind of I'm in the Linux mood. What can I do? So I pulled this machine out and I thought, oh, I'm just going to, you know, throw a thumb drive at it and extract

whatever I can off of it. It's probably just windows that's broken. And sure enough, that was true. But my thumb drive didn't work and it complained that it was the wrong architecture. And I lit up with joy because I then realized I had already solved this problem. It's this tiny little HP mini like this. Really? It's pretty much a netbook. And so I've got I've got my hardware. You guys got to catch up.

Hmm. OK. OK. Yeah. You know, I have some old systems, but the reason why I still have them is because they're badass cool, and they were already 64-bit. They were like, one's like an Optron box, it was like early 64-bit, and I think one was like the first Core Duo, which I think that's 64-bit as well. So, I guess I slowly over the years purged all the 32-bit hardware, not intentionally, but it just kind of happened naturally, I guess. You know, it's actually been really funny for me this week because earlier in the week, or I should say last week, okay, so I was traveling with my brother. We were on a plane together, which actually surprisingly doesn't happen very often, but I look over and I catch Linux Unplugged on his phone screen. And I didn't even realize he listened. And it turns out he's listening to like episode 500. And I was like, oh my, what is even noticing. So I opened my front door, and there's a pile of ancient laptops just sitting there on my front porch.

And he's like, I don't know, maybe these are 32-bit. Try them. That's great. And these are like old bricks. I ended up investigating, and it was like the oldest one was like a Core 2 Duo. And I was like, nope, try harder. You're going to have to bring me something older. And that's when I discovered this little tiny HP Mini. So it's been an adventure anyways, with this old hardware. What a good bro. That's good. You have to pass our thanks on.

So to get back on track here, Zack Attack came in with 9,876. These people and their arithmetic here, 9,876 from Fountain. Just boosting in on virtualization, virtual box and vert manager have always done it for me. Both are solid, especially when you get vert manager, emulating tool monitors for a windows virtual machine to do all the work related items. Oh, I,

I, I did not even know. I guess I hadn't even realized virtual box did that. I'm going to try that when I get back home. I am embarrassingly loving VirtualBox. I've hated on it. It's Oracle. I am just inclined not to want to have anything to do with it.

I basically stopped using it once Oracle acquired it. So that tells you how long that's been. I was unnecessarily suffering. I don't think I would, I'm not going to come on here and say I'm not using Proxmox, but I'm using VirtualBox. It's not that. VirtualBox is still just, hey, I'm kicking the tires on a distro. I'm not going to put it on physical hardware. Maybe I need a Windows machine for 30 minutes. I don't know. Like, that's what VirtualBox is for me. And it's been so solid. It's stupid. I just should have used it sooner. It's really nice. Now,

if I was going to use in production, I'm not so sure if i'd use virtual box in production maybe you do you have to let us know but thank you for the boost wolfman 2g1 boosted in with 5 000 sets from fountain how's the ham radio licensing coming along haven't heard an update from you guys in a while. Awkward. You guys passed, right? Yeah, I'm a ham now. KJR5? No, sorry, I can't even pretend. No, I just

too many things, I suppose. Every time I look at it, I think, I really just want to do it all on the computer. I want a digital setup. I know it's silly. I want to do software-defined radio. I think at it, I think, I really just want to do it all on the computer. I want a digital setup. I know it's silly. I want to do software-defined radio. I think that's my angle yet, but I just, I don't know.

Wolfman, you got to come up to the Pacific Northwest and hang out for a week and get us going on it. You know, we need a mentor. Maybe it could be like a winter project. Flackham comes in with 12,345 sats using the index says i love the idea of a proper nix roast here is my configuration and links us of course to his github with his nix config on there you're ready to take a little look there oh man again another github setup that's so much better than mine he's even got screenshots god i'm such a slacker. ZFS on root, Durand configuration for per-project goodness, Hyperland for eye candy, and a custom NeoVim configuration for Rust and Nix development. Yeah, that sounds nice. Well done. Well done. And, uh, yeah, some flakes in

there too. Rustic as Diversa comes in with 10,000 sats. So, boost bounties might be a fun way to do some of these challenges the community members are submitting. Revive the Jupiter extras when a bounty is met for a challenge. Set a level, say 40,000 sats, to get a challenge seriously considered, and a million to produce. If it takes off, there could be a bounty board update in the boost section, and you might be able to use a magic wallet switching technology to let people boost the bounty you discuss. Whoa, Rust, that's a fascinating idea. I got to wrap my head around that for a minute.

You know, hmm, there's a lot I'm going to think about. That's a thought-provoking set of ideas. I think, I do think there should be a way to like, because we don't want to just take every challenge that comes in. So there should be a way to like signal the seriousness of the challenges and engage the audience interest. So I'm going to mull that around a lot. Yeah, we can't just change how we pronounce major desktop environments.

That's just not going to work. Wait, wait, wait, wait a second. Is this like a recursive boost? Because shouldn't Rust have boosted in 40,000 sass to get the challenge seriously considered to do these challenges in this way that they're suggesting? Yeah. Jeez, Rust. Come on, man.

You're not even following your own rule. No, thank you very much. Marchie came in with 12,345 guys you know what i think that's a space balls boost so the combination is one two three four five that's the stupidest combination i ever heard in my life oh yes i've had lots of luggage carrying luggage everywhere i go he says enjoy el salvador i hope the trip is a blast. Too soon. Oh, yeah. There was a bit of a blast.

That's for sure. Yeah. Other than that blast, it's been really great. You know, it's, I think, a good thing to go somewhere that is so, so different than home, right? Because, like, I've traveled around the U.S. And kind of like every small town kind of has the same set of stores, you know, same everything really. And so you kind of just, you know that when you go to small town X in some state, you're probably going to find a Walmart. That Walmart's probably going to have Pepto-Bismol.

That Walmart's probably going to have bananas, you know, standard stuff. And so you just, if you grow up with that your whole life, you just learn to take it kind of for granted. And when you come somewhere where in order to get access to that kind of stuff, you don't go to a website, you don't go to a storefront, you network, you talk to somebody who knows somebody and then they call a carrier and they kind of get, you know, it's a much more traditional way of finding stuff. And it's really made me appreciative of some of the conveniences we have there. And, you know, it's a much more traditional way of finding stuff. And it's really made me appreciative of some of the conveniences we have there. And, you know, things like hot water and whatnot.

And then I also see things I think are a little better here. Just as a quick observation, just shocked me. The average Salvadorian family makes about $700 a month. And their expenses are just about $700 a month. So they really have no money. It's really tight for the average citizen here. And in the week that I've been here, I think today we saw our first homeless person. I'm not even 100% sure they were homeless.

To me, living in the Pacific Northwest, where every town now, they're everywhere, I don't understand how we can have so much in the States, and yet we have such disastrous homeless situation. And here in El Salvador, they have so much less than we do and so much less money and so much less resources. And I saw one homeless person this entire week in the capital, in the city and even outside the city. in the capital, in the city, and even outside the city. So there's differences that I really, you know, it makes me think. And I think it's a healthy thing to kind of witness that and take it back with you. And it makes you also appreciate home more, too. Thank you for the boost, Margie.

TRR comes in with a row of ducks. Just to say, quack. Thank you. Well said. Thank you for the support. You know what what sometimes it doesn't take a lot to send a little support in iraq came in with 2500 sats from podverse so we got a public apology from alex for the inadvertent offensive remark in self-hosted recently where's your apology for making fun of people who have self-harmed chris. Oh, did I make fun of people who self-harmed? Well, if I did, I apologize, E-Rock. Not my intention. Seems like that upset you

and I'm sorry to hear that. User 408 came in with a generous row, a stashel really, of sticks. 11,111 sats from Fountain and just says take my sats, boys. Take my sats from Fountain and just says, take my sats, boys. Take my sats. Thank you for the support, 408. If you want to claim your identity, go into your profile,

put your username in there and boost back in and let us know who you are, but you get our appreciation and our thanks. You can support the show with a name or anonymously. In either way, we're grateful. I think the fact that we're reading this

means that we did succeed in taking the stats. So, hey, teamwork. And a final boost today. Dragnet comes in with a row of ducks. Re-Linux Unplugged 528. Oh, God, please never consider Discord. Hashtag Matrix. Yeah, even with the CLA for Element, I don't think we're going to Discord.

Just, I think Matrix works really great for us. I think it works great for our community, and I think it represents our values. You know, I gotta say, it's really fun to see someone boosting in on quite an old episode, 528. I love seeing that. It's always fun to see people listening in different ways and whatever suits them. So great boost. Good catch. I agree.

And it also means it'll be a little bit before they hear this message. But we still appreciate it. All right. Now it is time. See you later. Total boost amount. That's right. We stacked 326,688 sats this week across 19 boosters. Thank you, everybody, who just took a little bit of time to send some value into the show. This is a value for value production. So if something we discuss or a tool we share or an idea we get you thinking about, or you just enjoy some Linux content and want to keep it going, please consider sending a little value. You can do that with a boost, or you can do that with a membership. Both of those are the monetary ways to support the show.

You can also send a little bit of time or talent or whatever else you might contribute. Maybe it's a recommendation. The idea is get some value, give some value. And what we love about the boost is a lot of us are busy. And once you get a podcasting 2.0 app, you just have a button right there in the app. You're listening. You want to shoot us a message. You know, you might forget about it later. You might not have time to sit down in our community and contribute time or talent. You just hit that boost button. You send us a message.

Gets into the show. And you're also making sure the show continues. Thank you, everybody who goes to podcastapps.com to grab a new podcast app or keep your podcast app and get Albie. Go to getalbie.com. Then you can boost from the podcast index or fountain or even the Podverse player once you have the Albie extension. Thank you, everybody.

And also a big shout out to our sat streamers who stream those sats as they listen. We do see you and we do very much appreciate you. All right, now I thought I'd play to the crowd since it's a Fedora party episode and give a little bit of love to the brand new pod man 1.5 and this is a release worth mentioning pod man I'm sorry pod man desktop 1.5 this release has a feature that I think a will make things quicker to move around the command

palette I think we all know what a command palette is but it's just nice to have some of those things pre-stashed and you can fire them off really quickly. And they're introducing a new feature, guided flows for the initial setup of a specific Podman desktop extension. And they'll have a UI with some questions. It's what the name implies. And it gets you up and running really quick. They've also added environment file support. environment file support. For those of you who've ever had to have a Docker container,

for example, where you define some things in a.env file, that's essentially coming out of Podman Desktop. And there's also been some enhancements to the settings area, so you can essentially work with Docker compatibility in a way that's more straightforward and obvious to Docker users that are coming to Podman Desktop.

That specific functionality's been there. It's just easier to understand for Docker converts now in Podman Desktop 1.5. And if you're stuck on a Mac, I hear Wes has been trying something. Wes, what's got you all tingling this week? Yeah, it's kind of like Podman Desktop, but it's another alternative to things like Podman Desktop

and Docker Desktop. It's called Lima, and it's Linux virtual machines with automatic file sharing and port forwarding in the style of WSL2 on Mac and Linux. And what's really neat about Lima is it kind of combines things. So if you have something like Podman Desktop or Docker Desktop, you know, to make a non-Linux environment more friendly, it's got to make a non Linux environment more friendly, it's got to spin up a virtual machine that can run real good Linux in there, and then kind of connect things up so that, you know, it looks like you got Docker on your Mac, but it's

actually running Linux under the hood. Lima does that, but it also gives you a little more control over the underlying VM. So if you're a nerd like me, you can run some workloads on the VM host without having to having, you know to have to spin up multiple systems. And that same virtual workstation can also be your container runner for, say, your development environments. Cool. Oh, man, that makes it really cool for getting something built and developed and setting up. That's neat. Solid pick, Wes.

Yeah, it also supports different container engines, so you can do Podman, Docker, Kubernetes, Container CTL. And if that's not enough, there's an even easier project called Coliba, which just aims to take that setup to the next level and make it as seamless as possible. So you got options. I've been impressed with how much lighter weight that feels compared to Docker Desktop. And I need one less thing kicking up the fans

on that old MacBook. Nice. Look at Wes Payne handing a glass of water to the folks in the Mac desert. And since Drew's here, you've got a bonus pick for us too. I do. Do you remember in the early 2000s

when you were sitting there jamming along with Winamp and you had Milk Drop running for your cool visualizations? in the early 2000s when you were sitting there jamming along with Winamp and you had MilkDrop running for your cool visualizations. Yeah, it turns out that project turned into an open source cross-platform thing called Project M. It's still around.

And it runs on Linux. And it runs on Fedora 39. And you just gotta make sure you get it from the GitHub because the flat pack is super old. Oh, this is great. So it bills itself as the most advanced open source music visualizer, which means I want to play with it immediately. Oh, this is getting the nostalgia going, Drew. I like this one.

Project M. I thought it might. Can we get it integrated into the live stream? Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I figured Fedora's turning 20 brings something else back that's, you know, a little over 20 years old. Yeah. And it's running on 39.

So that's great. That's great. You know, Drew, I'm so glad you're here because I learned something this week that just kind of blew my mind as it is exactly on this topic. I learned this week that one of the creators of Winamp, much loved piece of software, of course. Chris, you have an audio clip for this one? You know, you're such a gentleman. You know, I've been resisting playing this the entire time, but you just gave me an opening like a gentleman. Thank you.

Winamp. It really whips the llama's ass. Yeah, it takes me back. Just in case you didn't remember Winamp, the name, maybe that audio helps you remember and get nostalgic. Well, I learned one of the creators of Winamp, Justin Frankel, also is one of the creators of our beloved Reaper. Did you know that? Yes, I'd forgotten, but I did know that at one point. And that's how you know Reaper's good stuff. News to me. Ah, the old days.

Some people listening have no idea what we're talking about. You realize. They didn't need Winamp. I feel like that's pretty much every week, Chris. And then on Linux we had, maybe it's probably still around, but it was XMPP, I believe, which is like a Winamp clone native for Linux. Oh, yeah. And when I switched over to Linux. Yep.

You had to have that. I tried that for a while. It just wasn't quite the same. Maybe we can get it installed on our 32-bit rig. Oh, now you're talking. Oh, that'd be wonderful. Well, I just want to take a moment and say congratulations to the Fedora team. I don't know, but I'm sure it hasn't been the easiest year with some of the changes at Red Hat and the layoffs and some of the reduction

in people's time spending on some of the Fedora related projects. And yet, despite that, not only did the team release a killer release, but they never used it once as an excuse. They never once really made a fuss about it publicly. They just kept their heads down, and they've produced yet another one of the best cutting-edge distributions out there that really sets the bar. So if you give 39 a spin, please let us know what you think about it. Or if you get to try one of the various different editions. You know, we didn't really get a chance you get to try one of the various different editions, you know, we didn't,

we didn't really get a chance to play around with all of them this week. We'd love to hear your take on it. We could kind of fill in some of that coverage. So that's a great opportunity to go to the feedback page or to boost in and let us know what you thought. Maybe if you tried the plasma edition, also, please go vote in the tuxes.

We really like it to represent as many of you as possible. And that's just a tuxes.party. It'll just take a couple of minutes and you can get that done and call yourself. I don't know, a tuxes voter. You can, I don't have a sticker for you that says you voted,

but like you can picture it, you know, you could picture I'm giving you a sticker. It's kind of, it's kind of the same thing. And then we'll get that, we'll get that tallied and we'll get those results back to you very soon. Again, it's tuxes.party.

And do boost in with your experiences on Fedora 39. But, boys, with all of that done, it's time for us to wrap it up. But we'll be back at our regular live time with another show on Sunday. See you next week. Same bad time, same bad station. Make it a Linux Tuesday by joining us next Sunday. We'll be live over at jblive.tv. Dates and time, of course, are jupyterbroadcasting.com slash calendar.

You can get converted to your local time there. Links to what we talked about today will be at linuxunplugged.com. Each episode is listed there along with the RSS feed and that contact page I mentioned about. And last but not least, there's a whole network of shows over at jupiterbroadcasting.com, including a fantastic recent episode of Self Hosted, so don't miss that. And of course, Coda Radio

every single week over there at Jupiter Broadcasting. Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Unplugged program. And we'll see you right back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday. He gets so mad. Oh, guys, the AV crew at the event.

I think they're called Blue Extreme. If anybody wants to hire them. I don't know if they do anything outside of El Salvador. I have never worked with a group of more professional event AV people. I mean, so on the ball. First of all, they had like headsets and stuff so they could all like radio each other. And they made sure they had one individual there who spoke really good English. So we could always like anything

that really needed to get translated. He was always there to help translate it for us. Like there are two or three speakers ahead and they're like, they're coming up to me like, Hey, um, you know, speaker Bob hasn't gotten us his slides yet. And we need to get those loaded into the system. So we don't have any problems. And they're like catching stuff, two, three speakers ahead of time and quickly adapting. And then the guys running the mixer, they're, they're looking at like, who's moving and talking. And like, so when I walk up on stage with my microphone, they just pop me right up. Like they just, so I'm muted when I step off stage and they're right on it. And when the guy goes to play a video on his presentation, if they had the

computer muted, they're on it and they do a little sound checks for everybody. It was, I mean, I've never, ever, ever, ever, I'm even talking like large, giant, commercial Red Hat size events. I've never seen a crew that works with the speakers like this before. It really felt like a speakers conference. Like if you are, you know, for the speakers, they really were well-treated.

And I think the AV crew that ran the booth and the camera switch in and the live stream and all of that just freaking nailed it i mean you guys know i'm not a big like like let's exchange contact information and stay in touch kind of guy when i just meet randos but like yeah the guy that was working our room i'm like let's hook up on telegram like if you're in the states ever like let's work together because you did so well and so we exchanged information and then i got talking to him he's working with a buddy who uh is in the states and they're building kind of like this back end that is nix based that will

run a website to help folks in el salvador find remote tech work in the States. Neat. Wow. Some of the younger ones that have the capability of the leave, like this guy I was speaking to, his name's Rene, and he was working for us. And he, for six weeks or so a year, flies to the U.S., goes to Charlottesville, and works as a line cook. And he works 60-hour weeks weeks and when he's telling me

this he pulls up his sleeves and my but you know i've been interfacing with this guy he's like a great av guy he knows linux like he knows technology he's following the bitcoin conversation he understands a bit of economics super hard worker great work ethic and then as he's telling me that yeah but then for six weeks, I fly to the States and I am a line cook and he pulls up his sleeves and he's got burns and scars all the way up his arms

from the cooking in the States. And he's like, it's just unavoidable. He just gets sliced and burned. And then he comes back down here and he works, you know, a job here for the rest of the year. And so what they're, and I guess a lot of people do that.

And so what they're trying to do is for some folks, they can, instead of having to fly to the States, they can still get a job there, do some remote work, or vice versa. Somebody can be in El Salvador or be in the States and get a job in El Salvador. It's a two-way thing. And so anyways, I'm going to reach out to the guy

that's building the back end on nix to see if i can get any deets on what they're doing see if there's something worth talking about him with should be kind of interesting fun yeah some more nix configs to look at come on just weird stuff yeah right i know yeah i thought about that's what i thought about too is like you know maybe before the interview i should look at his nix config and see what he's doing this is the second guy i talked to at the event that was building something around Nix. And it's pretty neat to see. It's getting there.

People are building stuff around it and they're confident in shipping it. And I don't know. I'm loving it. And as soon as they realize that I know what Nix is, they light up. They just light up and they just want to talk about it. It's pretty funny.

It's a good experience. Were you scoping out some of their gear too oh yeah oh yeah yeah i you know that's a bit of for the av stuff is all like hardware you know it's all hardware based except for i think maybe like like a windows machine that's like a gaming rig and they have that hooked up to like all of the displays because because there's screens and stuff up on stage, those big LED matrix. I took some pictures of the back end. These things are so crazy, and they bring in these huge power banks. Anyways, they're driving all of that, I think, with a Windows box. You'd be surprised how much of that stuff the appliances actually do run Linux.

Yeah, I would believe that. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, because the back end is like all these little module computers that run the led screen. I believe they're Linux. So there's probably some hidden Linux up there on that stage. It was the open source stage after all. You know, I think we should take this opportunity to say a huge thanks to Drew. I mean, Drew, it's such a treat to have you actually on the show and to be co-hosting again. It's been eons since you've had the chance to do that. And gosh, I think personally, it's just nice to hear in your voice. So

thanks for being here. Well, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.