LINUX Unplugged - 566: Chef's Choice Ubuntu

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

We try Omakub, a new opinionated Ubuntu desktop for power users and macOS expats.Sponsored By:Core Contributor Membership: Take $1 a month of your membership for a lifetime!Tailscale: Tailscale is a programmable networking software that is private and secure by default - get it free on up to 100 devices!Kolide: Kolide is a device trust solution for companies with Okta, and they ensure that if a device isn't trusted and secure, it can't log into your cloud apps.Support LINUX UnpluggedLinks:💥 Gets Sats Quick and Easy with Strike📻 LINUX Unplugged on Fountain.FMHave a pint with Alex in Norwich , Sun, Jun 16, 2024, 2:30 PM | MeetupSpokane Meetup, Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:00 PMNextcloud Conference 2024: call for speakers - NextcloudNextcloud Conference 2024 - NextcloudBerlin with Brent: September Meetup @ Nextcloud Conference, Fri, Sep 13, 2024 | Meetupnotch on X — Alright, that's enough spyware in my OS. Do I go desktop Mac, or do I have the energy to go full Linux? Not sure, but I'm tired of my operating system treating me like the product.DHH on X — If I have such a fundamental misalignment with where Apple has gone, why stay? I think that was the question I finally just asked myself for the umph-teenth time, and realized I didn’t have a good answer that wasn’t just based on comfort.For the Love of Linux — In this podcast episode, REWORK host Kimberly Rhodes talks with David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founder of 37signals and CTO, about his personal shift from using Apple products to exploring Linux and Windows platforms. He discusses the expanded platform integration at 37signals, which now includes all three operating systems.DHH on X — The big YearofLinuxontheDesktop will be 2025. Snapdragon X chips will be ready. Folks will be sick of AI shoved into every crevasse of their life. Thank heaven for disagreeable nerds refusing to bend the knee to the corporate agenda!Linux as the new developer default at 37signals — I've personally been having a blast over the last few months digging deeper and deeper into the Linux rabbit hole, and it's been a delight discovering just how good its become as developer platform.Introducing Omakub — Omakub turns a fresh Ubuntu installation into a fully-configured, beautiful, and modern web development system by running a single command.Xournal++FlameshotPintaFrameworkOmakub list of installed appsOmakub — An Omakase Developer Setup for Ubuntu 24.04 by DHHOmakub on GitHubOmakub introductory videoMembership Summer Discount — Take $1 a month of your membership for a lifetime!devenv — Fast, Declarative, Reproducible and Composable Developer Environments using NixsquidGeneBean on X — My dad was so happy with his desktop after I switched him to #Pop_OS! that he had me do the same to the laptop he takes on trips. Thanks for such a stellar distro @system76Walkthrough of Nix Install and Setup on MacOS by zmre on YouTubeWildspaces.work — Wildpsaces.work is designed for remote workers interested in reconnecting with community and working from new and wild places.Chris' Amazon Tablet — 10.1 Inch Android 13 Octa-core with 8(4+4) GB+128GB Tablets, 5MP+8MP Camera, Bluetooth 5.0Fully Kiosk Browser LockdownJellyfin Media Player — Desktop client using jellyfin-web with embedded MPV player. Supports Windows, Mac OS, and Linux.kthresher: Tool to remove unused kernels in Debian/Ubuntuhelipad-flake — A Nix flake to provide a helipad package and NixOS module. Intended for use with nix-bitcoin.Kopia — Fast and Secure Open-Source Backup SoftwarePick: Multiplex — Multiplex is an app to watch torrents together, providing an experience similar to Apple's SharePlay and Amazon's Prime Video Watch Party.weron — weron provides lean, fast & secure overlay networks based on WebRTC.

So when we first started digging into today's topic, I kind of had a long-timer's reaction. Oh, I've been here since the 90s. What are you talking about? Someone new is coming to Linux and they claim they're going to solve all our problems? You know, that was sort of my first reaction. But then as we really dug in more, I started to get excited to see Amacube getting created and the passion around it. It really is kind of the best of Linux. It's fun watching somebody discover this and see their ability to make an impact and make a change and discover something special in Linux. And that's what we've had a front row seat to this week.

Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. And my name is Brent. Hello, gentlemen. Yep, coming up on this week's episode, we try out AmiCube, an opinionated Ubuntu desktop setup for power users and macOS expats that are sick and tired of the way things are going we try that and then share our thoughts as long timers then we'll round out the show with

some great boosts some pics and a lot more so i want to say good morning to tailscale tailscale.com slash unplugged check it out it is programmable networking software that is private secure by default and powered by Wagout. That's right. You can try it for free for up to 100 devices. It's not a limited time thing. It's the plan I'm on. Try it for free and support the show. No more inbound firewall ports. I say

tailscale.com slash unplugged. And a big time appropriate greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room. Hello, everybody. thank you for joining us it's nice seeing you in there getting a nice low latency opus stream of the show as we do this live on a sunday noon pacific 3 p.m eastern and there's a lot to get into this week so let's start with a bit of housekeeping there's a few items we want you guys to know about.

Now, number one, we're going to introduce the Knicks drinking game on the show. Now, this is in response to perhaps some feedback that we try to bring Knicks up every moment possible. This is designed to help throttle that a bit, maybe introduce some sort of buffer or punishment should the host accidentally utter the words too much. So here it is, the official decree, our commitment to you upon utterance of this, any mention of the name Nix within this program shall warrant a hearty swig of spirits by your hosts. One shot of spirits shall be had by all hosts present, except when chapters bear its name or fortune favors us a boost which mentions nix in such designated chapters or moments such as the boosts one shot shall suffice for the initial mention of nix oh my yeah i better i i feel like i better just take a

preemptive drink right away this is gonna be to be hard. Do we have enough drinks? That's the real question. Do we all agree? Do we need to make any clarifications? Yeah, I'm kind of curious here. Okay, so there's exceptions for if we're doing like a specific Knicks chapter, right? Or if someone boosts in about it. Right.

Then it's like at the first mention of Knicks. Are those separate? Is this like we, you know, we still have to do at least one drink. It's just that we won't have to drink for every single mention after that. Exactly. In that particular segment. Okay. Yeah.

I feel like the first time it's mentioned in those segments because like we're in that where that is like, like, for example, in Nick's chapter, we'll chapter it off. And then, you know, like that's what they're talking about. You could just skip right over it if you want. So only one punishing drink. Same with the boost. So that way we can't everybody say Nick's in every single boost and then we just get sloshed. The first time it gets mentioned in the first boost, we take a shot. We're covered therefore after the boost.

But anywhere else in the main show, every mention, one drink, one shot. All right. Well, cheers to this, boys. All right. Lock it in, boys. All right. So that's, boys. All right. So that's the important business out of the way. We also have some meetups coming up.

Our buddy Alex is going to be in Norwich Sunday, June 16th. Meetup.com slash Jupiter Broadcasting. Go have a pint with Alex. And then we are just in the very early stages of planning a Spokane meetup in Eastern Washington on Saturday, July 13th. Go to meetup.com slash Jupiter Broadcasting if you are interested at all, because if we don't see a few people sign up, we're not going to bother. So last time we didn't see very many people sign up. We kind of made the call to cut it.

And then we heard from a bunch of people that were sad to see we didn't go. Meetup.com slash Jupiter Broadcasting. And then there is one more event coming up that we want to let people know about. Right, Brentley? There sure is. Now, a couple of weeks ago, I set the intention to have a September meetup in Berlin connected with the NextCloud conference, which is also in the same place, meetup.com slash Jupyter Broadcasting.

Now, that's set up right now for September 13. So please RSVP there if you can just to signal your interests. But the whole reason for this particular meetup is to have it connected with the next cloud conference. And that happened last year, which was a ton of fun. The people from the JB community that joined me there really enjoyed themselves. And every year we have these lightning talks that the community can be a part of. And the call for speakers is open right now. So we will have a link to that. If you want to do a little trip to Berlin and you want to hang out with me and the rest of the JB community there, please come join us.

It's going to be a good time. Sounds interesting. All right. Very good. That's a lot going on. So go check it out. Meetup.com slash Uber Broadcasting. community there please uh yeah come join us it's gonna be a good time sounds interesting all right very good that's a lot going on so go check it out meetup.com slash jupiter broadcasting we'll have links to everything in the show notes of course so for the last few years on the show i think we've kind of had like this slow burn theory about desktop linux and sometimes we've come at it in different directions we We've talked about it a little bit in the last couple of episodes.

In the past, we've talked about it in maybe the sense of, did we focus on the wrong thing for too long? We being Linux advocates and developers of Linux desktop, have we wasted time trying to appeal to this totally mythical new computer user who doesn't know how to use a computer

but somehow ends up using Linux. I mean, and I don't want to hammer on this too hard, but if you look at the design ethos behind the standard Ubuntu desktop, or GNOME, or many of them, it's designed to appeal to somebody who doesn't know what a computer is, Somebody who doesn't know what a computer is. As if they were somehow going to just float down onto a computer and it would just be bestowed with Linux. And we had to make sure Linux would work great for them. And we've argued now for years on this show that the next real wave of adopters of desktop Linux is most likely going to be technically inclined folks.

People that are looking to get away from commercial operating systems, people that are getting frustrated with the strategy taxes. Yeah, and it kind of feels like Linux is maybe closer to being something deployable as a power tool for users who are using their computers to create software, to work on IT things, who are familiar with all the underlying bits, at least in principle, than we are to really being a great general purpose operating system. Yeah, well said.

We've been seeing this theme for the last couple of weeks on this show because this conversation has been going on on the broader internet. Yeah, you know, that said, I feel like, you know, my parents have been on Linux for like many, many years now. And so there's still a space for those new users. But yeah, I agree with you, Chris. This last week, at least, we've seen maybe a new type of user that's coming to Linux, especially with all this AI craze in some of the bigger operating systems.

And that's a real opportunity for us. And I remember last episode, you were saying, hey, this is our chance to not screw it up. And I'm hoping this episode we can see evidence of that. Yeah, you know, so today I saw a tweet from just a few hours ago from Notch, the creator of Minecraft. And he writes, all right, that's enough spyware in my OS. Do I go to desktop Mac or do I have the energy to go full Linux? Not sure. I'm tired of my operating system treating me like the product. That hit. And then for about the last month, we have seen David Hennemeyer Hansen or DHH go on about his transition first to Windows from macOS after being a 22, 25 year

whatever it is, 20 plus year user of macOS. He gets frustrated with apple's direction with apple's policies as a company he gets he gets kind of into the spot where he decides it's time to try something else and first it was windows and then he tried linux yeah so i have been on a personal journey of discovery when it comes to computing in the last few months the final straw kind of hit the camel's back at some point when Apple announced they were yanking support for web apps in Europe in their petty fight with EU bureaucrats over their monopoly case. And I just at that point finally felt like, you know what, why am I still

supporting this company? And I don't even mean that in an economic sense. I mean that in a sense of attention. Why is Apple still the gravity of all my computing? Why do I have all these Apple devices? Why am I on all these Apple services? If I fundamentally have grown to dislike how the companies run. And this is the slow bleed that we've been talking about for a while. Now, DHH is the creator of Ruby on Rails. He's the co-owner of 37signals, which is the slow bleed that we've been talking about for a while. Now, DHH is the creator of Ruby on Rails. He's the co-owner of 37signals, which is the company behind Basecamp and Hay, which is also well documented in the Apple space for battling with App Store policies with Apple, which we've covered on Coder Radio quite a bit. And he said, you know, I have a fundamental misalignment with Apple. I have a fundamental misalignment with Apple.

Yeah, he's not just an Apple user as a consumer, as someone using it as a workstation, but as also someone making products and having to interface them with Apple from that perspective. So I think that definitely also brings some color to how he views the company. And this really came to a head, I don't know, a week ago, when, I think it's been actually since our last episode, he announced Omakube, O-M-a-k-u-b which turns a fresh

ubuntu installation into a fully configured quote-unquote beautiful modern web development system by running a single command it's like the chef's choice of a developer setup for ubuntu 2404 as curated by dhh and they note that yes you could do this in other ways obviously but they wanted to create something that was tailored as they put it up front by someone with strong opinions that's been created for developers and it's got a curated set of applications that you'll kind of see as we go through here and an ubuntu base some of the design decisions that I think we'll get into are really fascinating to me here. And you mentioned, Chris,

seeing Linux with new eyes and it feels like this project specifically has taught us a lot about how those eyes see Linux and want Linux to be and look and feel and behave. Not to give too much away, but I didn't think I'd be this curious about this project. And do you feel the same way over there?

At first, I was a little put off, to tell you the truth. Because, and I would imagine a lot of people listening, their first thought is, well, this is the path to frustration. We have all seen somebody really smart come along and create a customization script for ubuntu that works for a release or two and then becomes just impossible to maintain and um so that was my first reaction because i was like oh i've been i've been here before but then you're right as we dug into it and we looked at it i thought actually this is a real opportunity to understand and appreciate what this user base finds valuable. And so when I installed it, which I did on Ubuntu 24.04, I kind of at that point had wrapped my head around what their goal was. And they say it here. They

say they wanted to streamline just bootstrapping a Linux environment, something for themselves. At this point, the script is, and they admit it, it's really kind of designed for the staff at 37signals and DHH. Their plan is they have a couple of people and DHH in-house at 37signals using Linux, and their intention is new hires will also start using this setup out of the box, and then over time they're going to try to migrate more of their staff. But Wes, one of the things that means is you do end up with an install that has some stuff you might not actually want

installed. Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, who doesn't need a MySQL and Redis container just pre-setup for you? There's a bunch of other stuff, you know, like 1Password, Spotify, WhatsApp installed. But I think if you get too caught up in those

kinds of things, you might be missing the spirit because those are easy to remove and nothing about this, like, Omacube's not going to forcefully reinstall it. So it's just kind of like get you to a nice base. And that's kind of like, that's the topmost layer. I think where a lot of the niceties come in is, you know, all of the theming, the customization, and like the pre-setup and pre-configured tweaks

to applications like NeoVim and the terminal. Yeah. Yeah, so they're using Alacrity in place of the standard GNOME shell. It is all based on top of GNOME. In there, it runs Zell-G or Yelly, whatever, which gives you multiple panes and sessions, which we love.

Thank you. It's Bash underneath, of course, but with more tooling by default. You got NeoVim that's been pre-configured with LazyVim and VS Codes installed. GNOME's been tweaked for more of a keyboard first centric kind of setup with some window tiling stuff installed.

U-Launcher's pre-installed, set up to super space, so that way you have a launcher in there. One thing I actually really liked is there is this mapping to the caps key. So caps M and then you enter a letter of an emoji and it just inserts an emoji. It's that was actually kind of nice. And then what will really hit you is the look.

It's been rethemed to Tokyo night and you can actually select from a few themes by rerunning the Amikube command later. You can actually select from a few themes by rerunning the Amacube command later. And when you do that, the terminal gets rethemed. The editors get rethemed. The background gets changed. The UI for GNOME, the GNOME theme gets changed. It also installs some great-looking fonts. They're some of my favorite fonts on Linux.

Yeah, like Microsoft Cascadia. Well, it's a good-looking font. Yeah, no bias at all. It is, though. It really is nice. And then, you know, a handful of GNOME extensions. You get Docker and like Wes was saying, MySQL and Chrome and Slack and some of these things that I think some people listening probably wouldn't necessarily want. But that's how this kind of script works, especially right now. I do get the sense that they're open to input and they're creating documentation around some of this. But when you're done, it's like you have an Ubuntu setup that's kind of been maxed out a little bit, the sort of purpose built for a really nice looking developer workstation with a workflow that, while not a one-to-one to macOS, is trying to outdo macOS in some areas.

I think you do have to give them credit. I mean, there's the theme, which is very nice, and the consistency, I think, is appreciated. But it's also just with that, you know, with the tiling, with some of the configuration for GNOME, it stops feeling so much like Ubuntu in a way. I mean, obviously, it's still there, and you get the benefits of that, right? Like, you're still on Ubuntu base, you have apt under the hood, you can download dev files and install them like the script ends up doing a bunch. But you get something that does have, I think, a distinct look and feel to it. I also have to give DHH some credit. I think I've seen in some of the commentary on this online, some of the more veteran Linux folks who do a lot of customization being like, why'd you use Alacrity? You could have used Westerm, you know, like a bunch of

different opinions and customizations. And you might argue with some of the apps that come pre-installed or, you know, which apps are for which purpose. But I think a lot of the picks are not bad. You know, Zernal++ is there for filling out and signing PDF forms. And I knew about that one,

but I hadn't tried it for years. And it is really nice. Flameshot comes by default, which is a great screenshotting tool. So plus stuff like Lazy Docker and Lazy Git. So there might be some stuff you didn't need, but there's also some stuff that I think a lot of people would like and might not have known about. You get the sense that DHH got really excited and went down the rabbit hole and watched a ton of YouTube videos, read a ton of blog posts, hopefully listened to some podcasts, and really got a sense of the different kinds of tools that he likes. He's built this setup script while he's super passionate

about it. You know how you're in that honeymoon phase and you really have all of the energy in the world for this and you'll really commit. And he's taking advantage of that energy and building out documentation around it, GitHub around it, getting people in his company on board. It's a fascinating transition to watch and it's neat to see somebody create something kind of at the peak of that excitement when they're truly enthusiastic about this, right? Because if this just becomes normal for them, for 37signals and DHH in three, four, five years, they're not going to quite have this passion for it because it's just going to be the day-to-day operation. So we're tapping in when some special creative energy is happening right now. Collide.com slash unplugged. You've probably heard me talk about Collide because I think it's just a game changer. But have you heard that Collide has joined forces with 1Password? It's big news

because these two companies have really exemplified customer-first, user-first security solutions. And Collide, for over a year, has had Collide Device Trust, which has helped companies with Okta make sure that only known and secure devices can access their data. Now they're doing it as part of 1Password.

So if you've got Okta and you've been meaning to check out Collide, now is the time. This system is so slick. It gives users the ability to solve problems. I wish I had this when I was in the business. And it comes with a library of pre-built device posture checks so you can get started right away. But of course, of course, you can write your own if you need to. When things come up and you can use Collide on devices that don't have mdm so contractor devices tablets chromebooks you know the byod trend which barely was getting started back in my day is huge now so you need something that addresses that then also has it all under one pane of glass to manage

your windows linux mac everything one dashboard one set of reports it's so slick go check out collide now that it's part of one password they're just getting better so support the show and go to k-o-l-i-d-e dot com slash unplugged that's collide.com slash unplugged to learn more and to support the show and check out their information that's collide.com slash unplugged. dot org, right front and center about why, like, what's the intention? Who's it for? Even some things like his use case and exposing key bindings and the the workflow that this was designed around. And I thought that was just like a very simple thing to add as a, you know, marketing for this project. But also, it just for me, was a really good launching point into this project without having all these, you know,

which we've seen on Reddit talking about this, these preconceived notions of what this should be or who the audience should be. And so I thought, geez, every project should have a nice, you know, it's like a 20 minute watch, but there's so much info in there. And that for me was a really nice introduction to this, this project. You know, there's a lot of folks who have dot files or

other sort of configurations published on the web. And I saw some of that in the commentary on this too, of like, how is this new, right? Like there's tons of people already publishing their setups on Ubuntu. But I think what you're hitting on there, Brent, that like the introduction, the actual, you know, sort of seeing him go through the workflow and showing how he uses the configured system adds a lot to kind of grokking what DHH is trying to do with this. Well, and also exposing some of the like thoughtfulness that went into some of the decisions, because for a lot of these tools, you have, you know, sometimes five different reasonably good alternatives and you have to choose one in the end for a project like this. But really, Chris, just echoing what you were saying, it was also clear to me that that passion and the like desire for new discoveries and that came through in a really infectious and beautiful way for someone like us who've been

kind of watching the Linux landscape for a while. It made me kind of feel like, oh, actually things aren't stale around here at all. Like someone who's new to Linux is having a great time. And for me, that's like, okay, we're having some successes here and we need to keep this energy going because A, it feels really great., B, other people are going to benefit from it either by discovering this project or having their own path very similar to DHH here. Same exact experience you did. And I thought, this is really nice right now. But I couldn't help while I was using it worry about a year down the road. You know what I mean, Brent? Like a year down the road when maybe a repo that has been added doesn't respond anymore or canonicals had to make some sort of kernel change or some sort of GNOME change and the GNOME extensions that are pre-installed by the script get broken. Did that cross your mind? It was one of the first things because,

well, A, it's kind of a two-step process. You got to, you know, install the OS and then apply this on top. And for me with my space internet being out in the middle of nowhere, that took actually quite a long time, like an hour for me to go from start to finish in this process, which was great because it offered me the opportunity to see what was happening. You know, you get some visibility into what Omacube is installing and changing and setting up. And yeah, you're totally right, Chris. There's like something like 10 PPAs that are getting added for different projects, everything from like Spotify to NeoVim. But also a lot of just straight up curl and Wget commands to install some software. Yeah.

Which gets me wondering like, A, how is this system getting updated in a way that's actually quite friendly and going to work long-term? But also, yeah, like you're saying, a year down the road, what is this going to look like? So I know it's early days for this project, but I'm hoping it can kind of address some of those concerns.

Yeah, we'll see. I mean, a really active community, you know, could stay on top of some of this stuff. But Wes, when I was using this, I thought to myself, and boys, I'm going to break the seal on it, but I really felt this way. I kept thinking, man, I wish instead of a a bash script i wish this was like a nix module or a flake and there it is there it is take a shot i'm gonna do it drinks boys cheers you know maybe i don't want zoom you know uh maybe i don't want it's, I wish this was just something I could edit. Here it is. Cheers, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Here we go.

I will say, I think maybe we'll have more to say about that option that you're kind of describing there. But it being just a set of bash scripts has some negatives, like you're talking about, right? Like, it's very imperative. It's going through slowly, one by one, downloading dev files, adding PBAs, installing a bunch of packages, and not even all the packages get installed in one app thing because there's a bunch of different commands, so you keep having to run through all the stuff that app does every time. reference stuff but the flip side i think is if you actually go look at the um the repo one it's pretty well crafted it's not just like a thrown together you had to get their bash script that got pushed up and never looked at again right like as you're saying right now there's excitement

and there's been a lot of maintenance and tuning and just aesthetic tweaks even at the code level um but it's also it's not really like there's a whole system to learn. There's a little bit of one, right? But it's mostly just folders with bash scripts in them. And then there's one main install script that then goes and looks in the directory that has all the other scripts, and it runs all of those. And to Brent's point, I think, you know, yes, it's a lot of wgets and curls and PPAPAs and Debs, but I think a lot of those end up being kind of what you would be doing manually anyway, right? If you're just following the like GitHub readme instructions for how to add these things. And it makes me think that

on some level, it's maybe less of a limitation of Omicube and more of a limitation of the platform it's on. So you kind of have to tease those apart a little bit. But I think instead of having to learn the whole system, one plus could be you just clone this repo. And if you don't want to install a bunch of stuff, you just delete the folders out of its, you know, install folder. And if you're comfortable with bash, you can reasonably make changes to it, even if it's not pretty. I see what you're saying is in a way because it's bash, it's actually more approachable. Yeah, it's not pretty. It's not, you know, it could be brittle as you're talking about,

but there is a layer of simplicity, a certain kind of simplicity about it, which I can appreciate. Once this install script got through and I started looking around and seeing what's installed and how and digging into the repo there just to see how they

were doing things. I agree with you, Wes. It's nicely done and easy for someone who even isn't that deep in bash just to understand. But I kind of realized that there are some technologies that we, at least on the show here, but mostly our audience has loved in the last couple of years that are completely missing. Something like Flatpaks is not mentioned at all. I'm not sure if that was a conscious decision or just, you know, someone who knew to Linux who doesn't know about Flatpaks. It would solve a lot of some of the problems here with PPAs and updates for some of the software like Zoom, for instance, that's just installed literally like a one-off package that's downloaded from their website.

So I feel like there's an opportunity to grow this project by learning some of these modern ways of installing Linux software. I think that is the downside to the AmiCube system overall is – and I don't mean this is any kind of gatekeep-y way. It's just they're new. And I don't mean this is any kind of gatekeepy way it's just uh they're new and i don't think they know about flat packs and i don't think they necessarily have experienced what it's like when ubuntu releases a new version and gnome releases a new version and everything they've done has to be kind of updated not redone but definitely tweaked definitely changed maybe some things have to be substituted and that's going to be an ongoing thing. That's going to be an ongoing problem.

And like you said, Flatpaks would at least resolve some of the underlying host OS dependencies. So that would give them multiple releases of support in theory and also avoid that whole PPA repo eventually goes away. repo eventually goes away. Anybody that's been using Ubuntu since like, you know, the 6 series knows that when you add something via an apt repo or a PPA, you know, it works generally for one release at most, for one release of Ubuntu at most, and then that's not going to work after that. And it may even go 404 during that release. And I think that's just something you gain after you've used it for a while. But the folks over there are pretty intelligent intelligent and they could probably pivot and tweak these things and change pretty quickly, right? They're not married to any one particular thing. Right.

And if they are actually, you know, deploying this in anger at work, they're going to have to keep making those updates. Yeah, good point. You know what? In a way, the more they use it at work, the more likely we are as end users to see this thing get iterated and developed and fixed. So, okay. So looking under the covers aside, I'm curious what you guys think in terms of like, how effectively is it accomplishing its goal? Because thinking about like day job things,

I get the busy dev mentality, you know, you've been, you're maybe familiar with a proprietary platform. I'm thinking of some of my past coworkers who were Linux users at work, you know, they were given development Linux workstations, liked Linux, but were not necessarily enthusiasts. They might not listen to Linux podcasts. They might not go on YouTube watching people, you know, or r slash Unix porn to check out crazy customized configurations. They don't keep up with like Wayland and how to get things all working. And so each time have to solve those problems. So I could really see, And so each time I have to solve those problems. So I could really see, you know, the after effects of running all these scripts being kind of great because you don't if you don't need to look into the covers and make any changes. I think it does get you to a pretty good web development workstation.

That certainly feels like one of its strengths is the strong opinions, because if you like those opinions, then I think this is a wonderful place to start. You know, okay, maybe you have to tweak a couple things for your own particular workflow. But those strong opinions, I really appreciate, especially as someone like DHH, who has a lot of experience doing some of this type of work, you know, building web development front ends and like that style of work. I could see if you're just like a junior coming into the field or you're new to Linux and you have similar workflows on another platform, it's a wonderful thing to come into someone's like predetermined flow of how you should apply similar solutions. So I could see that being like, what a dream. Because I remember a time when I was forced to use Windows at a small little tiny local food co-op that I was working at. And they were like, no, no, none of this. I don't even know what Linux is.

And I literally spent a week trying to get Windows to do the things I wanted to. And I could imagine many people come to Linux and have the exact same experience. So having someone who just says, here, start here. I've set up everything like 90% of what you need. Then you could just tweak a little bit from there as you see fit. That actually is such a wonderful, wonderful gift. Yeah, that's the target, right? That is, I think, exactly who they're going for.

It's somebody who's a little fed up. Like we mentioned, Notch is a little fed up. DHH got fed up. It's somebody who's a little fed up but doesn't have the time, and they just want somebody with some taste to just make a few good choices, and they're just going to roll with it, and they can tweak from there. And, you know, as they put it, tailored up front is what they call it. It's not for somebody who wants to choose the exact terminal they're going to use or they're not going to tweak every little thing. Right. It's for somebody who wants a pre set up set up kind of like Cosmic might be or kind of like some of the more tailored distros might be. But instead of being from this origin of for the new user who's not really familiar with computers, it's starting. It's the starting line is,

I'm building this for software developers. I think NeoVim might be a nice microcosm of this. I mean, I've been using NeoVim more lately. It's great. And you really can turn it into a lovely development environment. But if you're used to something like VS Code, which is also included with Omicube or JetBrains products,

it's a big lift to get NeoVim halfway decent compared to those things. So having a working developer get that going, with admittedly a lot of help from LazyVim, I think that can cross the line from like, NeoVim's neat, but I view it as a toy or it

could never work for me, to actually being able to consider using it for real. In that way, Wes, do you feel like this is the Makase spirit at work here? Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, you might not like what the chef chooses for you, right? But it is a thoughtfully put together thing. And we don't, you know, we get that to some extent with Linux. But as you're saying, Chris, right on these big general purpose bases, like Ubuntu, that are trying to target a wide audience, and maybe, you know, a not super technical audience at times, you don't get the technical level of consideration of holistic approach to the gestalt of like the entire experience. And you get that a little bit with AlmaCube, which is unique.

Yeah, and it is built on top of an LTS. So it's going to be around for a while. And I think that makes a lot of sense for a developer workstation. I think when we talk about the shifting sands that are Ubuntu and GNOME extensions, I think you have to keep in mind that we are talking about an LTS here, so it's a little bit better. But say 37signals were to hire the Linux Unplugged Consulting Group, I think all three of us, our number one bit of feedback would have been this path does ultimately ultimately lead to some kind of anger. You know, you will frustration problems. You will find that. And now it is what the question that you are going to have to ask yourself is, how much are you willing to battle that? How much are you willing to just constantly solve for new problems that are created by the upstream stuff that you're building on top of? And we have seen this play out over and over and over again. Linux Mint is essentially this problem. The Cosmic Desktop is essentially this problem. Mate is essentially this problem, right? I mean, I could go on and on.

We have seen this over and over again. So that would be the only big red flag is you are setting off on a journey in which you will have to constantly account for the upstream changes. So there's that. But I think if you're willing to take that on, when I look at the overall implementation of what's been done here the aesthetic tweaks are really my favorite changes i think there's a lot of taste that's gone into the look the modifications to gnome are nice alacrity works really well the font choice is really good all of that i think is really nice the software selection overall i'm a little mediocre on but i think the aesthetics are really good but for for me, it's the idea. That's what I'm the most excited about. DHH has built a Linux desktop for the actual user base, the next wave of users. It does make me think I'm kind of glad I saw some commentary around,

you know, should this be like a whole custom distribution? And I think I'm thankful that it's not, you know, it can accomplish these same goals, but without having to be an entirely new thing, it can do so as a layer on top. But I think one thing to think about in this way is, what if this could be applied to more than just Ubuntu? Like, what if you want a different base? How do you accomplish that? And is that a missed opportunity? Well, that is really the elephant in the room, isn't it? Okay, so this is the dedicated Nix. If we could just go into the nicks universe for a moment cone of silence

all right boys grab your drink because this is the one mandatory shot for this segment no you don't have to do more than this but you do have what we have to take one mandatory shot for the next segment cheers guys all right what if what if this had been done via nix wes question we've all been waiting to ask i wonder you know i mean we've spent a lot of the last year two years i don't know how long now learning the power and advantage of nix. And I think just up front, you know, it is a powerful package manager with a wide selection of available packages already right out of the gate in a way that feels a lot more sustainable maybe than a bunch of devs

downloaded from the internet. Plus, you also get that Nix kind of reifies your config to a new layer, right? So instead of having to like fork his script at the repo level, you also get that Nix kind of reifies your config to a new layer, right? So instead of having to like fork his script at the repo level, you could import the flake that had his Nix config or home manager config, and then just make the tweaks you wanted on top of it in a sort of immutable, accretive manner instead of having to actually go blow away files in the repo and maintain your own version. Yeah, and they could also make those changes. You know, internally at 37signals, it would be a lot simpler for them to swap certain things out

or make those changes if upstream demands it. And I think it's important to clarify here, we're talking about Nix on Ubuntu. So you could keep that Ubuntu base, but still use Nix to orchestrate so much of this. Yeah, I think we should be clear about that because it's easy to get confused between Nix and NixOS. And while NixOS might be great and could probably be workable in this situation, we're not saying it necessarily needs to be. I mean, it could be really nice.

We all know about how NixOS is great. But Nix has advantages beyond just NixOS. If you don't want to go full declarative system or you just have too many use cases that aren't currently a good fit for NixOS, you can still get a lot of the advantages of Nix. And I think one of those huge ones is portability. It might be a lot to learn to package something to Nix, but it's also not a ton of fun packaging stuff for regular Linux distros. I've written more Nix packages than I ever have, you know, deb or RPM files at this point. And once you've gotten it packaged in Nix, because Nix brings its whole own user land, you can take that with you anywhere you go, whatever other distro, as long as it supports Nix, you don't have to redo it. You don't have to change out which packages get installed. It's the same consistent system. What I'm talking about is sustainability over time, because the one

thing about the free software universe is things change consistently. Like on the Mac platform, Apple will keep apps around and just neglect them for a long time, but the app will stay around and maybe the API stays the same. That is not necessarily the case in Linux desktop. So you need kind of this multi-year strategy where you can swap components out, change things as you need because there's always going to be another alternative. But you're going to have to modify what you've built to accommodate that. And it's going to be true for your internal teams. It's going to be true for everybody using it. And it's going to be a constant source of nagging external people using it to the project where if you brought it in with like a Nix module or a flake, it would be something that is a matter of just going in and tweaking a few lines and then it's theirs. And it doesn't require much more than that.

But on top of that, it's like Wes said earlier, it's going to get built every single time. So it's going to get validated. It's going to said earlier, it's going to get built every single time. So it's going to get validated. It's going to get checked and it's going to be portable. So you could also do it on a different system. Say, should Ubuntu not be the base that you want to use five, six years from now? It feels to me also like Nix doesn't have to be obvious to the user here either. Like for those of us who want to maybe customize this before we get going, maybe we have our own group of people we want to apply this to. Yeah, okay, maybe you dive into it. But

same as the bash script, it can just be like a one off run that handles all of this. At least that's how I imagine it. Is that how you've seen it, Wes? I mean, I think there's a lot of ways, there's a lot of flexibility. So it does need, it would need the same level of curation, I think, or maybe more. And we should be upfront that some problems would need to be solved, right? Like having the Omicube sort of like interactive thing where you can go and tweak the themes right there. That might be a really nice experience for folks versus, yeah, having to go like figure out how flakes work and learn the next expression language. But the technology under the hood, having those portable apps, having a programmatic interface to it, I think it has the bones that would let you build that if you want. And we've seen stuff,

right? This is kind of a similar problem in some extent that the folks at Fox or DevEnv or Toolbox, there's a ton of different projects that are kind of trying to address this. I guess we'll see which one wins. Here's why I would prefer this setup. Ultimately, the number one thing that kind of gets me about Amacube and using Ubuntu in general as a development workstation

is that at my core, I really, whenever possible, believe that applications, user data, and the operating system should all be separated. And I'm not a big fan of what I, this is my opinion, I'm not a big fan of what I call spraying the file system and modifying everything around the whole OS, because now you've just basically created your own boutique bespoke Linux installation. And I just, I find a lot more sanity when everything is properly isolated and separated out.

And I feel like it's kind of funny because macOS is just kind of semi-recently solved this very problem and DHH is leaving macOS. But macOS has worked for several releases in a row to separate out user data, applications, the system files, to switch to image-based updates. And now we're kind of going back to more of a 90s style where it's a spray and pray approach to updating your system and installing packages. And I'm not a big fan of that. And that's also something I feel like using the Nix package manager, be it on Ubuntu, be it on Fedora, That's also something I feel like using the Nix package manager, be it on Ubuntu, be it on Fedora, be it on whatever, would be a sort of level of separation from the host OS, which could be a more minimal set of packages.

I've been pleasantly surprised by how well that can work, too. I was just playing with my Omacube setup and I was bringing in a bunch of 24-4 already has Pipewire, of course, but I was trying to get a little audio environment going. but I was trying to get a little audio environment going. And I was able to bring like my own Pipewire and Wire Plumber, Pipewire Pulse and Reaper and a bunch of other tools all on top of this Ubuntu 24.04 base. But I got newer versions. The ones there on the system are there if I need to fall back or I'm not trying to do like, you know, pro level audio kind of things. But I just have a whole separate base

that I can bring with me to whatever platform I need. And I think you could, you know, you do need, there are some things where you need to solve having the Nix world talk to the non-Nix world or vice versa. But those are solvable, especially maybe if you've got the kind of energy going into Omicube right now. But, and especially so, when you're not on NixOS, some of those things just work. Like if you install VS Code from Nix, but you're running on Ubuntu, you don't have all of the same complications you have running VS Code on NixOS. There's a little more ability of it to actually reach in and go to all the usual places on the file system. It's going to look for stuff.

So some of those problems get ameliorated just by not being on NixOS as a base. Yeah. Yeah. get ameliorated just by not being on NixOS as a base. Yeah, yeah. So this topic, using Arch, using Nix, it was actually brought up by DHH in one of the podcasts of the videos that he did. So I thought I'd play his comments

on why they didn't choose Nix. I've really designed Omikube, first of all, for myself. I wanted a way to recreate my exact setup on GNOME, on Ubuntu. I wasn't looking to use NixOS. I wasn't using to use Arch. I wasn't looking to use NixOS. I wasn't using to use Arch. I wasn't using to use any of the other, let's say, more exotic, more niche compilations of way to run Linux. They're all great. And I wish nothing but all the best for people who want to dive into

those very deep pools. But Omicube is for a different kind of user, someone who's probably been using a Mac or Windows machine and isn't necessarily a total wizard with Linux. Now, I get this and I understand this. And what I hear in there, though, is what Wes was touching on earlier is this conflation between NixOS and Nix, the package manager, which works on Mac OS, which works on all the different Linux flavors. And, you know, as part of this, you wouldn't have to do everything in Nix.

Like this could maybe be like a, you know, like a home manager config that did like kind of everything from a top layer. But you could also just sort of augment stuff. Maybe you still want to install a couple of things with dev files or from flat packs. Ideally, that'd be a little more portable. And then some stuff, you know, the stuff that works well, you bring in from Nix and other stuff, maybe you start to fall back to the stuff from the host platform or a container um it doesn't have to be a one way or the other it can complement nicely linux unplugged.com membership and now the promo code summer

will get one dollar a month off your membership forever forever that's valid for both the jupiter signal network membership and the core contributor membership when you sign up you get two options there is two choices before you one is the total bootleg version raw recording we have a bunch of extra stuff in the pre and post show stuff that just doesn't fit in the show like if we put all this stuff in main love main love would be two hours long. It would be too long. It'd just be too big, too big,

but we can't help ourselves. We give that to the members in the bootleg version, but a lot of you, your time constraint, hence the reason why we can't make love so big. The main show we, for you, for you,

we have the ad free version. It's got all of Drew's fine touches post-production, but it's even just a little bit shorter because the ads have been cut out for you. So check it out. Two options for our members. You get started at linuxunplugged.com slash membership and use that promo code summer to take $1 a month off forever. That's linuxunplugged.com slash membership. And now it is time for the boost. Well, lucky us. We got a couple live boosts this episode so far. Here's one from Max VDM for 5,000 sats about 20 minutes ago.

Hey, from Johannesburg, South Africa, finally able to catch a live show. Hey, hello, South Africa. That's pretty great. Thank you for listening live. Max VDM also came in just to say, hey, NixOS, drink up, fellas. Okay. It's catching on already. Right off the top. We got to drink right off the top, boys.

Okay, here we go. This is the one NixOS mention shot for the Boost segment. Here we go. Cheers to you, Max. Thanks for listening. All right. Bobby Pinn comes in with 50,000 sats. And guess what?

He is our lobster. Bobby says, I finally got my Albi sats transferred to Fountain. I can't believe how easy it was this whole time. Just barely hopping on the crypto train after listening to you sing his praises since 2014. Keep up the good work. Thank you, Bobby. Yeah, two things there. Number one, you could think of the Lightning Network as SMTP.

We needed that to build out over time. And once it's set up, it's just a matter of sending messages between systems. It's pretty straightforward. But it just had to get built out. And then remember, Bitcoin, not necessarily crypto. Bitcoin is the only digital currency that doesn't have an active founder, that doesn't have a pre-mine,

that doesn't have a team organizing it, that has a Linux foundation type structure, that has a dev team that is large and also not the only ones in control because there's node operators and miners as well. And it separates it out from the rest of the pack. But just because there's no second best doesn't mean I don't appreciate your boost.

Thank you, Bobby, for that 50,000 sats. All right, well, we've got a special chain of boosts from one max power. It's 49,380 sats, but it's across four boosts. And I think we better do these individually. The first one for 12,345 sats. So the combination is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. This first boost just says Spaceballs. And then another 12,345 sats. Yes, that's amazing. I've got the same combination on my luggage. To say boosts. And another 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

boosts and another one two three four five the hell was that space ball one they've gone to plaid to say must and finally one two three four five smoke if you got them stay space balls boosts must stay i don't know you guys i feel like there's a message in there you guys think there's a message in there i can't quite pick it up but i know there's something pretty convincing if you ask me it seems like a strong vote i agree now caden came in with 40 243 satoshis from fountain i hoard that which all kind covet i love the show i'm a software dev at a dot net shop but i use an ubuntu vm and neo vim predominantly looking to add docker and nix to that tool belt do you have any suggestions okay let's pause right there um you know what i didn't even think about with omicube is how perfect is it for people that are just using ubuntu and a dev vm to make a nice little dev vm like that i didn't even think about that

uh that is a great use case but then also, I love that he's thinking about integrating Nix into the tool set. That's a brilliant idea. Do we have any suggestions? Wes Payne, you got any suggestions? Yeah, I mean, I suppose I would say go check out all the packages available. Nix is a great way to very lightweight install stuff to your system. You can remove it really easily. It doesn't leave a lot of cruft because it's all under slash Nix slash door and then sim links to

that. So as you're setting up your dev environment, take a look at what's in the Nix package database. Search.nixos.org is a great way to do that. And try installing some of the regular tools you use from there. You know, stuff like, I don't know, JQ, RipGrep, SemGrep, you know, any of these kind of like standalone things that maybe don't need complicated library access or to like super integrate at a language level into your setup and go from there. Also, maybe check out DevEnv. I've been playing with that a little bit more. I think it's from the folks behind CacheX, which is a Nix cache, but it's fast, declarative CacheX, which is a Nix cache. But it's fast, declarative, reproducible, and composable development environments using Nix.

And I've had a pretty decent experience for that. And then there's also just kind of several different versions of dev shells you can use, which is a nice way to pull a bunch of packages from Nix with a little configuration, maybe set up environment variables or have stuff that runs when you enter the shell, that kind of thing. And you can kind of start light, add in tools as you want, and get used to maybe like writing a flake and kind of reading the Nix expression language. Now, Caden does continue. Hey, I recently flashed a laptop with Pop! OS, but every time the battery dies in the laptop, secure boot turns back on, and I'm locked out of my OS. Any ideas why or how to fix this?

Man, I've never heard of that. I'm sorry. That doesn't sound fun in any case. No, no. Yeah, I can't. We can put this one out there to the audience. Help us out, audience. Has this happened to you? Do you have any tips for Caden? And the last little tidbit here is

PS. this is a zip code boost oh no i can hear wes has already got the map out all right wow wow wes do you bring that with you everywhere you go yeah i had a premonition this was happening i got the big map this time okay uh this is a postal code i think in jefferson county kentucky with cities like louisville middleton and Douglas Hills. Hello, Jefferson County. Thank you for hello, Kentucky. Appreciate that.

Not the one comes in with 20,000 sats. That's not possible. Nothing can do that. He says, I like the sound effects. If we didn't have them, we wouldn't know how much sats to send. Also, I play things at 1x speed. If it was good enough for the Romans, it's good enough for me. Can you do a Babylon 5 sound effect?

Here's some quotes. Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. And quote, the avalanche has started. It's too late for the plebs to vote. Wow. I need some time codes. I'm not a big Babylon guy yet.

I am just midway into season two, so I will start listening. Maybe I'll find one. 412 Linux boosts in with 2,000 cents. Pew pew! My Linux mistake is not being patient enough when using a new desktop environment, leaving DE the first time it gets frustrating.

I stuck with Mate and I'm very happy. I've got that muscle and visual memory now. So be patient with yourself and be patient with the desktop environment. P.S. boosting in while on a walk, while listening live. So awesome. That is good for you being out on the walk while listening in. So awesome. Coming in hot with the boost. That is good for you being out on the walk while listening in. I also like that about the audio stream. You can plug JBLive.fm into your browser and listen live while you're on a walk. Or if you've got a podcasting 2.0 app, we are live in the podcasting 2.0 apps.

Now, that's a good kind of moral of the story right there, I guess, right? Be patient with yourself. Take time to learn the new desktop environment. You know, take it off in bits and pieces. Learn one little piece at a time. It applies on a lot of levels, too. Like it applies to the desktop environment. It applies to Linux as a whole system.

It applies to a new editor or new tool you're adopting. Yeah, it really does take time to like get to that level of comfort. Now, WAM Geek came in with almost 12,000. 11,949 Satoshis. Hey guys, I've been a long-time listener all the way back to Linux Action Show days. This is my first time boosting, so I'm hoping I'm doing this right.

One mistake I learned quickly to avoid is to make sure to unplug my external hard drive with the backup on it before doing an installation or else you may find that you've installed the os on the external hard drive and have no more backups oh this i learned someone told me to do this way early in my computing career and i have stuck to it religiously uh i will report it works every time if you just happen to do it uh so i um can advocate for this one completely oh and by the way that's a zip code boost ow oh i gave myself a paper cut on this one but uh i did get the results because this

is a postal code in suffolk county new york with cities like manorville eastport or northampton oh that's cool i was hoping for schenectady it's been a minute since we've had a uh a zip code boost from the east coast hello you know what i was just gonna say i would love some more zip code boosts and now we've had two i really really like these thank you very much wham geek and uh hello new york magnolia mayhem comes in with 15 678 sats boost and it's actually uh also a space balls boost the first one so the culmination is one two three four five says i can't wait to hear about your backwoods setup i spend my weekdays chicken on a chicken farm and my weekends as a rural carrier so i'm almost always in a bad connection setup yeah so how's it going well it's pretty good except for the trees have grown in quite a bit and the bush has um kind of precluded my northwest view so i am dropping packets let's see um because i've dropped uh 1600 packets to the

studio i've dropped 12 12 000 packets to brent and i've dropped uh 600 packets to west so you didn't need those packets right i didn't yeah right so it's not great so if you want to use starlink you do need to make sure you have a good clear shot of the northwestern sky, but really the whole sky. Now, the nice thing is they do have an app you can download and you can do a little survey. And it'll give you a pretty good idea how you're going to do. It is amazing what you can accomplish with, say, six, seven, 800 amp hours of lithium battery power and solar. And maybe a generator when you need it. It is incredible.

I've been out here since Wednesday. And the weather has been great. We've had really good solar. So we start producing two 300 watts of electricity by about 730, 8 a.m. And by about noon, I'm making 800 watts of electricity, just free power, unlimited free power. Now, where we're parked, we're kind of intentionally in the shade, so about 1, 2 o'clock, when it's really, really good solar, we end up in the shade, and it all drops off, so I am supplementing with generator a little bit, but it's been so nice out here, and it's so quiet it's so rare where i'm somewhere on location

where i can have all the windows open i have the front door open and um it's quiet there's nobody here i haven't seen anybody since wednesday except for the family so uh starlink a little bit of lithium power an inverter to make it work it's's been really nice. And then for the mobility aspect, because I am in an RV, I have everything kind of on a Visa mount and that, you know, just different arms and Visa mounts is really the way to go. It really is because I can just take down things in chunks and put them away and then I can set back up. So that's been really great. And it's really kind of nice. We'll see how it turns out. I have two Coder radios and a self-hosted to record out here and a This Week in Bitcoin,

so I still have quite a few more shows to record. We'll see how they turn out. And then he finishes with, does Squid still have a place in the modern world? That's the last part of his boost. Does Squid, the proxy, still have a place in the modern world? I guess I'd flip that around, boys. Why wouldn't it?

When don't you need a little caching? Well, you know, that's, I mean, that's a good question, but when was the last time you actually deployed it? I've thought about deploying it here at the house or in the RV over Starlink or over cellular, because, you know, we kind of swap back and forth. So I have actually given it real consideration. If my pie hole had an SSD attached to it, I think I'd consider trying to put Squid Proxy on it somehow. Because what it does is it's essentially a browser cache for all your machines at the network level. So the first time you go to Google.com or the first time you go to Jupyter Broadcasting.com on one of your machines, the Squid cache will cache all of that locally. So the next time any other machine goes to Jupyter Broadcasting or Google or MSNBC or whatever it is, you'll get the images loaded, ideally those that can be that haven't changed, from your local cache instead of from the remote server. So it just takes one system on the entire land to access it once, cache that stuff on the Squid proxy server, and then every machine from that point forward will load that off of your local cache instead of off of the internet and if you think about an lte connection or a space internet connection it just seems kind of like a good idea to me but i've never really

gotten around to it but i still think it does have in my opinion i think it has a place maybe some boosters can boost in and let us know anyone out there making good use of Squid? I'd be curious to hear about it. Great question. Our pal Gene Bean boosts in with 11,249 sets across six boosts. Make it so. A couple rows of ducks here. First one to say, please do keep us updated on the community stuff as I just don't have the time to read about it all myself. All right, we will do. And a second row of ducks here to say, my five-year-old son is listening with me and asked, why is the show named Linux Unplugged? And well, I told them I'd ask

y'all. So why? Why indeed? Why are so many things? You know, it originally started, this is, I'll give the short version of the story because I've told it many times. It originally started as a podcast that was just going to cover the feedback that came into our intensely popular show linux action show and the the reality was is we were getting so much and i was new to podcasting i guess in retrospect and i just thought well this is just going to be a one-time problem and we had so much feedback coming in that i needed to cover it somewhere and i couldn't cover all linux action show so – I thought, well, how about we'll cover it in the Linux Action Show feedback program or something like that. And we came up with this idea and I just started doing it. And then as we started doing Linux Unplugged, we realized it really had its own identity.

And the mumble room was crucial to that, bringing in the virtual lug. And then things really turned when Wes joined in episode 100 and it really became its own podcast and it ran in parallel for a short period of time with linux action show and then when linux action show wrapped up it became our main show the idea though is it's mostly unscripted you know we got the mumble room open anybody could pop in and chat with us and uh we kind of uh tried to keep some of that original ethos but also then make it its own unique thing. And so it's called Linux Unplugged. You know what?

And then you look around and you – and I didn't do this intentionally. But you'll see a lot of things out there now are XYZ Unplugged. There's a lot of this. It's its whole kind of naming category now is XYZ Unplugged. Even MTV copied you, right? Yeah, yeah, right. Maybe they were the OG. That's a good point.

Well, Gene Bean continues with another row of ducks. Regarding a distro for new users, Pop! OS is hands down the answer. My 70 plus year old father has been happy with it since January of 2022. I agree. I really think Pop!

OS is one to consider in part because it's backed by a company. And if you think about what traditional users want, you know, they want something that is backed by a company. And ultimately, if they like Pop! OS, they want to be able to go buy a System76 machine, and they want to be able to call a support number. And if, you know, you're not trying to do anything special with your system an ubuntu base is a really solid widely supported compatible base to start with maybe we should do a pop os

challenge oh maybe we should uh perhaps uh perhaps when the next cosmic evolution happens huh yeah there you go okay yeah i'd be down for that now gene continues with some leet sets uh with a little dig at you ch Chris, why don't you use a flake for your system config, huh? It's probably my fault for not, you know, making you. Yeah, it only, yeah, yeah. If Wes would have suggested, I probably

would have done it. I don't think I considered it because it started as I was taking a config from another system, and then I just expanded that NixOS configuration for my new B-Link system that is the system I was planning to use for audio production. I'll get into that more later. And I didn't really ever stop from that point forward. I just took that config file and immediately started iterating on that and that was my line of thinking.

But I go back to if you're introducing yourself to Nix and you just start with a flake first approach, I actually think you'd be better off. And I think ultimately this is where the community is going to wind up. It's just going to take a while for us to a guide for getting started with nix uh that he really liked called a walk through of nix install and setup on mac os by zmre over on youtube so uh check that out if you're curious we'll have it in the show notes one more row of ducks just to say bring on those brunches brent well thank you for the vote of confidence. We shall see. Now, Tom's dad did boost in for us this week. 9,001 Satoshis. It's over 9,000!

Party member here. A couple of things. Number one, I'm interested in a camping meetup, but would be making the trek from Denver. So maybe somewhere in the middle. Also, the local SRE group does an open spaces in wild spaces a couple of times a year. So link to that wild spaces don't work. Also in one of the pre-shows, you were talking about cheap Android tablets, good for home assistant dashboards. Any recommendations there?

These are some great questions. So on the camping meetup, there is no meetup in my life. I would rather do more than the camping meetup. I mean, here's what I'm picturing is maybe just a couple of nights. I'm picturing some people in their RVs, some people tent camping, some people nearby that just come up during the day. And during the day we do food, we cook, and then we do like little sessions. So if somebody's got a skill or a talent we do little sessions during the day then maybe we go on a trip somewhere like a little caravan somewhere nearby wherever we're camping at and then we end the night with a fire you know telling some jokes and some stories that we go to bed and we rinse and repeat one more day and then we all go our

separate ways but i can't think of anywhere i could, to be honest with you, afford to go outside of the Pacific Northwest because this thing gets 10 miles to the gallon and it has an 80-gallon tank and fuel is extremely expensive. So the only way I could figure doing it would be somewhere in the Pacific Northwest and that has cooled my motivation just because I know that's so far for so many of you and what i do think would be probably more doable for the rest of the audience would be something probably in the denver area something a little more central not way way over here on the west coast and so i've slowed my role even though it's number one by a far the meetup i'd rather do i just and then like if if the boys could make it like we'd do a show there maybe we just need to do it in canada that way it's far away from everybody everybody wouldn't it be great to do a podcast there and everybody who comes in camps would be our live

audience and we could still live stream it we'd bring the starlink and i just i am so into it i just don't think it's i think in order to actually make it happen, I need to centralize it and then about 10 months ahead of time, I need to either find a sponsor or we got to raise the boost to make it happen. And I just – I think we're too late in the process. I don't know. Maybe we're not, but I feel like it. I guess if we maybe aimed for September or maybe late August, maybe we could do it still. I just, I don't know where the gas money comes from. And then that's true for so many people as well. That's the only hiccup there. And I don't know if people, anybody has any advice or, you know, is an organizer of these

kinds of events and has some suggestions, please let me know. I'd love to figure it out. So I did on March 30th, I purchased an octa-core 8 gigs RAM, 128 gigabytes of storage Android tablet. And it's a 10.1 inch Android tablet. And it was 75 bucks. And now it's 69 bucks on Amazon. It has gotten even cheaper. And now it's $69 on Amazon. It has gotten even cheaper. And what I use this for is a dedicated Home Assistant tablet. It's just constantly displaying the Home Assistant dashboard using the – gosh, what's that? It's a kiosk software that I can't remember the name of.

It's dedicated kiosk software for Android. You can just download the APK and sideload it. So you don't even need an app store and then i inside there load the dashboard and it doesn't have a product name it's just on amazon called tablet 10.1 inch android 13 octa-core so i'll put a link in the show notes for it and uh 100 absolutely solid no butts at all recommendation if you're looking for a dedicated dashboard in your home. I don't think it's a very good tablet in terms of performance. I mean, if you're just watching the video, it's probably fine. In fact, if you're just looking for consumption, it's actually probably a pretty good little tablet. I mean, we're talking $70 for a 10.1 inch tablet.

And it is incredible as a dashboard. I was just thinking last night how happy i am with that now i've only had it since march 30th uh but i am very happy with that as a purchase the screen is beautiful it's been reliable i can control the screen i can control the sleep stuff the auto wake stuff all from home assistant using the fully kiosk. That's the other app I use. I install Fully Kiosk browser in Fully Kiosk, which I pay for. You don't have to, but I pay for. Then I get home assistant control. It's incredible.

Great question. Thank you for following up. I do like to follow up when I can. Big recommendation. We'll put a link for that in the show notes. Now, 8565 sent us 13,000 sats across three boosts. Thank you very much. Fun will now commence.

Number one. So in a matter of two days, I wiped out both systems and had to rebuild both of my systems. This is now why I have a two beer limit when I'm doing computer stuff. Oh no. but probably wise. Boost number two, I made a huge mistake recently as well. On a two-year-old Arch install, I was SSH'd into my Ubuntu Jellyfin server, and I needed a drive to have 777 permissions for media. So I grabbed a terminal and did a little chone,

except the terminal I was in wasn't my SSH terminal. It was the one I had just used for an update on my local Arch system. So I set the entire file system to 777, and exactly nothing was happy with that. Gosh, I'm pretty sure I've done something similar. You know, you just get all the permissions, and for the most part it doesn't matter. But then there's some specific permissions on your system that really do matter. Now, 8.5 continues. The worst part was that once I figured it out, I made the very same mistake the next night, except on the server this time.

That sounds even worse. Oh, my gosh. I'd be curious, how did you recover 8.5.6.5? Did you have backups to go through? Did you have to reset up the system? Did you have to try to manually fix the permissions? What'd you do? Still recovering, perhaps.

Now, any suggestions on how to avoid this in the future? You know, I mean, you can try and just be careful. You can make sure you have clear banners on your servers for stuff. There's a lot of neat apps to do that. And like in your message of the day or in your bash prompt or ZSH prompt or whatever to like make it really clear which system you're on. Um, maybe don't give yourself pseudo.

I don't know. Don't trust yourself. Now in, in the last boost here, uh, eight five says, uh, jellyfin also has a very good desktop client that you can make point to VLC.

It's a super handy little client. I use it in lieu of a web app. All right. Yeah, that's in reference, I think, to our app pick. Neat. You know, I don't know if I've ever tried this, but I'm seeing one over on their GitHub. It's based on Jellyfin, or based on the plex media player um i guess yeah you can do vlc it also supports like has an embedded mpv player supports windows mac os and

linux that's great good i mean i think i knew that but like it's good to actually like remember that well uh leaky canoe comes in with ten thousand cents i've been listening to jb for four years now and I'm making it my goal this month to tune into LUP live for the very first time oh any tips advice or software recommendations to get the best experience when listening live that's a great question well boost master I think this is your question well you could start really easy you could just use your web browser and go to jblive.fm and if we're live you'll hear us live and if we're not live you'll hear some reruns and that's probably just like the most like low-tech way to do it then the step up is if you're on android i

really like radio droid as a simple mp3 streaming application and you can just throw jblive.fm in a radio droid if you're on ios i really like broadcasts it's a solid little app and it'll sync also your preferences across your ios apps which is nice and you can plug jblive.fm in there but if you're a podcasting 2.0 user it gets a lot better because we're actually using all totally standard stuff to do the live stream, including the podcasting 2.0 live item spec. So say you got fountain or pod verse or cast ematic, something like that, that supports the live streams. You'll actually see like the day before you'll see our pending stream in there with what we're going to talk about the title and when we're going to go live. And then when we actually do go live, we flip that.

And all we're doing on our end is we're just updating an XML file, right? We're just updating the RSS feed. The clients ingest that RSS feed and they mark it as live. And then you just hit a button right there and say fountain or whatever. It just starts playing the stream. And you can see the description. If you do boost, you can boost in and it will come in live and it'll show up in our chat room and we'll get it in the show oh it's it's so so so slick it's it's such a nicer experience than like youtube live streams um and i'm so proud of what the podcasting community and all the devs and everybody has created there so if you do have like fountain or podverse or something like that that's really the way to do it is just subscribe to our regular old rss feed and then you just get it right there in the feed but at the end of the day it's just an ice cast thing so like jblive.fm and anything that supports an ice cast mp3 stream like vlc

mpv it'll work just chrome yeah whatever yeah yeah to add to that if you want to take it just up even one more notch there's always the mumble room that you can join if you want to go, you know, all the way to live. The ultimate experience experience. Now I'll take this one. Thumbs comes in and guys, I don't know if you're familiar with this one. It's called a Spaceballs boost. The combination is one, two, three, four, five. They're right.

I listen at 1.25x. I've been debating increasing it. So reasonable. Okay. So that way I've been debating increasing it. So reasonable. Okay. So that way I don't keep falling behind. The member feeds are monsters. That's fair. That is true.

That's true. Yeah, yeah. You guys sound well caffeinated at that speed. Music is 50-50 at that speed, and some tracks like the outro are pretty bad. But most of the 80s songs are great with a little extra speed. Yeah, we do play some 80s songs in the members feed that is very true yeah i think about that when i listen to somebody else's show at higher speed and the music sounds like garbage and i think about how much music we play in the

members feed and whatnot i just think uh thank you thumbs for being willing to listen to it appreciate it oppie 1984 comes in with 4 000 cents i had been a lifelong windows user and windows 8 pushed me to try linux i first tried ubuntu and hated it so much i went back to a vista machine later i tried zorin os and was actually able to ease into linux with that and after a while moved over to mint and I've been happy with that ever since. Mint is what I always recommend for those looking to jump from Windows to Linux. It's just close enough to the Windows

experience that it's easy for noobs to get comfortable and start to learn. Very fair. Very fair. Mint, I think, nails that. That is the MVP performance for Mint, is that kind of nailing that Windows expat. It's really Cinnamon.

Yeah, Cinnamon's pretty great. With 10,000 sats, Otterbrain sent us a little boost. Now thinking about Chris's new audio machine, which is the most cost effective or environmentally friendly system? A single all-in-one multitasker or a set of dedicated task-specific machines? For me, I'm thinking about writing and reading tasks, data analysis, graphics like presentations or making figures for papers. And then there's gaming, mostly indie co-op games. It's a good question.

And I will say it's one I've been asking myself this week because, very frustratingly, One I've been asking myself this week because, very frustratingly, after three weeks of thinking about it, worrying about it, configuring different things, trying different setups, buying gear, buying mounts, buying equipment. Yesterday, as I was doing one final test before we got going, my B-Link died. My new, brand new B-Link that I talked about recently. Wouldn't power on. I powered it off to save battery because I'm running off solar. And when I went to turn it back on, it just would not power back on. And I tried clearing the CMOS.

There's a little pin you can push in the front and hold it down for a bit. I'll pull the power, let it sit for 10, 15 minutes, plug it back in. Didn't work. And I'm going to do the whole RMA thing. And I'll give the complete story when I know what the complete story is. I'll give the complete story when I know what the complete story is. But it had crossed my mind that if I had just a regular old tower PC, I could just start swapping out individual components. I could have another power supply. I could have another disk.

You know, the only thing I could do is buy two B-Links and then reset up one of those B-Links if something like happens, because it's all an integrated package. And so when you think about it from like an environmental sustainability standpoint, I think the individual modules, while more gear up front, actually make something last longer in the overall usability. Because my other option, what am I going to do, right? I'm going to RMA this and they're going to send me a new B-Link. Totally brand new, all new parts, when it could be one individual tiny component in this that has failed. So it's been on my mind.

That's a good question, Autobrain. Thank you for the boost. It might matter too if you're, you know, do you need to do these things at the same time and will the machine be struggling? I think just from the hardware perspective, having one machine probably works out better, but that's predicated on you actually be able to do

all of those myriad tasks on that machine. Obviously, you get more redundancy if you have multiple machines and you can offload things. But if you can get by with just one, it might work. And we got a row of ducks from Forward Humor. Great episode, guys. I'm learning so much from your tips

and your mistakes. Please keep sharing. Yes, last episode, some of our bigger mistakes with Linux. Thank you, Forward Humor. Appreciate the boost. Fear Guys Balls comes in with 3,000 sats across two boosts. First 2k sats here.

Catching up with episode 553. Is the Nix node config you made available for listeners to use? The fountain show notes didn't include any links from the show. And then another 1,000 sats to say, the Nix sound effect should be the Borg. Resistance is futile. That is it. Very appropriate.

That is, that's great. Yeah. I think we fixed the fountain show notes, right, Wes, by now publishing the HTML of the entire show notes? Yeah, we did have to move some things around in, like, which particular feed items had which particular version from how our feed was doing it previously. I'm not sure if that's been backported to all episodes yet we probably will but um so if if you don't see it there go to jupyterbroadcasting.com you can find uh all the links there or linuxunplugged.com as well do you remember was there anything that we did substantially different i don't remember now with our node config versus just what the next Bitcoin project does. And did we publish it?

No, not necessarily. I mean, we started we started working on the the helipad flake, which is I can have a link to that. We haven't we haven't really used it very much, but I have a link to that. I think maybe once we get everything actually deployed, because right now we haven't we started down the next node path. And then, you know, we had to go to a bunch of conferences and there's just been a bunch of other projects in the way. So we haven't had a chance to return to it for a while. So we haven't actually really used it in any production sense.

But I think, you know, we could try to post the tweaks we do make when we get there. Yeah, we will pick that back up. Now, Ambient Noise sent four boosts for a total of 15,720 sats. Coming in hot with the boosts! And these are in response to Linux Unplugged 5.6.5, the mistakes that made us love Linux, if you remember that episode. I'm a gamer and got into Linux by watching the LTT channel, specifically Emily's excellent getting into Linux, Pop!OS, and Proton segments.

Don't get me wrong, Linus just doesn't know much about Linux. Emily's excellent at getting into Linux, Pop!OS, and Proton segments. Don't get me wrong. Linus just doesn't know much about Linux. Maybe I'm an outlier. He continues, please, no talk of manually partitioning the hard drive for new users. Automatic is fine in Pop!OS and Mint. New users, remember, don't scare them away while they're still new. Also got to say, plus one to the no dual boot. Most of the time, there will be another Windows PC somewhere you will have to access for that edge case. Dual boot will break at some point and the users will just

never commit to Linux. Another one here, please don't recommend NixOS to new users. I know it's the cool new thing, but it's not a good idea for new users, even a new dev that's looking at Linux for the very first time. Some very driven people might make it, but how many would be scared away? It's just too risky, in my opinion. You know, it occurs to me that with a lot of these, we probably be more careful about how we define new user. to me that with a lot of these, we probably be more careful about how we define new user. You know, there's new users who are like Gene Bean's dad, who aren't looking under the covers very much and just need a system that, you know, you can install stuff from the App Store and

go about your business. There's power users migrating from Windows. There's Linux curious folks who have an innate, you know, who are curious and want to learn Linux versus folks who are just trying to get off Windows. So I think a lot of this can be good advice, but we should probably have been more careful around like, which segment are we actually talking about and what are their motivations? Because I think that changes what makes good advice for them. There's one last one here, just addressing how I was complaining about small boot partitions and running into kernel issues. I did a little research. Pop!OS automatically sets a boot partition size of 1.1 gigs on their system,

but it only seems to keep two old kernels. I can confirm this using Google, but the install has been up for over a year now with autowattbates, and everything seems to be working fine. and everything seems to be working fine. Now, I have to say, I did get a note from our dear friend Carl. He sent me a little tip here. He sent me a project called Kthresher, which would potentially help me with this exact issue I was having with kernels on Kubuntu specifically, filling up the boot partition. So if you are having similar issues to me, KThresher might be worth checking out. KThresher for the win.

Moon Knight comes in with 6,666 sets. Make it so. The safety you feel in NixOS, being able to just try something without risking borking your system, truly cannot be overstated. You can swap out the whole subsystems and see if they work better or see if something on your hardware works without fear that you're going to irreversibly break your system.

It's a tinkerer's dream, though I still have some reservations about it as a daily driver desktop system. Curious if anyone else has slapped Nix onto a gaming machine and if they've had a good no-fuss experience. God, you know, I'm so tired of this mentality i mean that's a great boost moon tonight but um i don't know computers used to be so much harder than they are now and is nix as easy as ubuntu no but it is so much easier than computers used to be and i do use it it for gaming. And Moon and I, I'm not disagreeing

with you. I think you're right. It's not necessarily as easy, but like that's a variable self-defined bar that each one of us has that we then project onto everybody else. And I guess I'm kind of tired of it. I'm not the smartest guy in the world. I'm not a developer by day. And all of my desktops use NixOS i don't know somehow this luddite's getting it done so is it and i game on these systems in fact the system i have the most problems gaming on is my steam deck that runs arch so riddle me that batman like i know it's not easy for everybody and i know it's not super simple to just download a binary and execute it and that's really hard and everybody hates that but like it's not like it's so freaking difficult and you bounce off everything a couple of times

and just because you bounce off it once or twice doesn't mean it's a bad thing now it also means people need to know what's up going in and i think moon and night nails that i'm actually more really kind of just frustrated at the fact that ambient noise seems to think that you can't use nixos as a desktop but i whatever whatever it is what it is and just use whatever makes you happy i'm tired of fighting about it amen to that well maybe this will maybe this will uh help you out here chris southern fried sassafras comes in with 10 000 sets that's not possible nothing can do that after putting it off for so long i'm finally giving NixOS a try.

I had Pop!OS installed on my work laptop, but it had been just sluggish enough to be noticeable lately, and it had been doing updates even though I turned automatic updates off. Well, an update broke something in the boot process that the laptop was stuck on the manufacturer logo. Rather than try to fix that, I just pulled any non-backed up files off and installed Nix. I think I'm on the Nix train now, even after taking way too long to get WireGuard working, and there's still some kinks to sort out, but I'm really liking it.

I'm also giving Plasma 6 a go after being on a GNOME desktop for years. Different, but clean. It will definitely take some getting used to. Good on you for being willing to take the journey. You know, we say it all the time, and it may become a cliche on the show, but it is true. It is harder on Nix, but you solve it once.

Like, listener Jeff was, when he first connected in the Mumble room, he was on his Nix desktop, and he realized, oh, I don't have, like, the higher quality audio codec for my bluetooth headset yeah you know what that means you got to go set up a couple more things in the nix config yeah you got to go do that and it kind of sucks because you're already on the call oh silly me i don't have the higher quality audio i thought i would just have it because i always have that and now i don't have it god nick sucks so much right but then you disconnect you go add the three lines to your configuration file,

you rebuild, and now you've solved that problem forever, right? That's the difference. We were also really impressed this week about just how much we're using Nix shell. Wes, could you explain Nix shell? But like, I'm using the heck out of this thing, because I just forget to install software all the time. And it's just like, oh, yeah, I need that thing. And I go and grab it. Yeah, I think the way you're using it is probably running nix-shell-p and then the package you want. And it's just a super handy, quick way to go ask Nix to temporarily give you a shell environment where you have that package available. It doesn't get installed permanently.

shell environment where you have that package available. It doesn't get installed permanently. Once you exit the shell, it's gone and it's not, it's going to get cleaned up whenever you do your next next store garbage collection. So it's a super handy, no cost way to basically like, oh, I want to try this tool or I need this tool. I don't really use it all the time, maybe a couple of times a month. And I don't really want to keep it around in my system. I just know I can go fetch it from Nick's whenever I want. Yeah. Crazy handy. And again, available on any distro, but like for my set set up here, my system i just know i can go fetch it from nix um whenever i want yeah crazy handy and again available on any distro but like for my set setup here i was testing network connectivity and i wanted to install mtr and a couple other things that i was only going to use for like the couple

of days that i'm here and then i probably won't use it again for a long time and nix nix shell dash p install is really kind of handy for that because you temporarily have that you're in that environment where that exists and then when you're done and you do a garbage collection it's gone it's really really great i wanted to i wanted to shout out to user 773 who boosted in he was below the uh the 2000 sat cutoff but he had a great note long time listener first time booster so first of all thank you very much appreciate it thanks for taking that journey he says thanks for the great shows i found a backup program that looks very promising and I thought it might be worth your while. It's called Copia, K-O-P-I-A at K-O-P-I-A dot I-O. I've been using Restik, but I wanted something a bit more.

That is great. Thank you for being a longtime listener and taking the effort to sign up. We had a bunch of boosters. We have 2 000 set cutoff for time and we had 25 boosters across 42 total boosts now we do have the 2 000 set cutoff uh thank you everybody who boosted in we stacked 300 403 sets thank you everybody now if you're the first time listener Thank you, everybody. Now, if you're the first time listener, for some reason, you're like, what did I just listen to? The boosts are a peer to peer way for our listeners to send value into the show. At one point in time, we were owned by a corporation and it just didn't really work for the niche that we're trying to serve. It didn't really work for the show.

And we fought to get this back. And now it's an independent production that is supported by our audience. And so you can boost in. And if you value each individual production, if you liked that episode, it made you think about something, you got some signal from it,

you want to participate in the conversation, go get a new podcast app at podcastapps.com. Something like Fountain or Podverse, which is GPL. Great way to participate in the conversation and send your message in. Thank you, everybody who boosted in. We really do appreciate it. You guys, you really make the show possible.

The boosters, the members, we wouldn't be able to do without you. Thank you very much. Newpodcastapps.com, or if you want to become a member, it's linuxunplugged.com slash membership. Now, before we get out of here, Wes, you were on fire this week with the pics like I had a really hard choice trying to get it down to one.

But the one of the out of all of them just seems so unique and like something I don't think we hear we'd hear anybody else talk about that. I felt like this should be the pic this week, and it's called Multiplex. Can you tell us a bit about it? Yeah, Multiplex is a Go app to watch torrents with your friends. So, you know, you might have experienced something like Apple's SharePlay or Amazon's Prime Video Watch Party or, you know, Jellyfin Syn sync or the Plex feature that exists for this. Well, this is the same idea. But for torrents, you don't have to have some proprietary platform, you just gotta, you know, have a have a torrent to a file, maybe you're sharing that for your

friends, maybe you're finding it somewhere else. And it lets you stream any file directly, using a wide range of video and audio formats with the MPV video player. And you can host online watch parties while preserving your privacy by synchronizing video playback with friends without a central server that's so neat using torrents under the hood right so like so great watch together but using decentralized torrents that's right up our alley jellyfin's pretty lightweight but maybe you don't want to go stand up like a whole jellyfin instance just to kind of get that functionality. This might be a way to make it happen, you know, without having to get everything else set up.

Under the hood, it uses something called We're On, which I hadn't checked out before, but I definitely am going to. It's overlay networks, which, you know, we love, but it's based on WebRTC. Yeah, that's also really cool. Before we get out of here, I'd like everybody, if you're thinking about boosting in you want to know what to like boost in about I got a question for you would you be willing to use kind of a

AmiCube style script that modifies Ubuntu do you feel comfortable with that as a long term desktop solution for you and if you do why and if you don't why not please boost in and share that with us we'd really like to know links to what we talked about today those are going to be over at And if you do, why? And if you don't, why not? Please boost in and share that with us. We'd really like to know.

Links to what we talked about today, those are going to be over at linuxunplugged.com slash 566. And of course, there's a whole bunch of great shows over at jupiterbroadcasting.com. And we'll be live right here next Sunday at noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern. See you next week. Same bad time, same bad station. Indeed.

And sometimes they go smoother. Sometimes they go a little bumpier. Just kind of depends. This week it's from the woods. We'll see how it comes together in the wash. Big shout out to editor Drew. We really appreciate him. And we appreciate you for listening. If there's anybody you think that might be interested in a show like this, please consider sharing it with them. We always really appreciate that. And we'd love your feedback too. You can find that at linuxunplugged.com

along with our RSS feed, Matrix info, Mumble Room info, and a whole bunch of other stuff. We've got hyperlinks over there. It's really handy. I'm surprised somebody didn't think of it sooner. It's a website. You're going to love it. Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Unplugged program, and we'll see you right back

here next Tuesday, as in Sunday! Thank you.