LINUX Unplugged - 581: The Linux Escape Hatch

Episode Date: September 23, 2024

What if we had to abandon ship and stop using Desktop Linux? We've come up with a master plan, and put it to the test.Sponsored By:Jupiter Party Annual Membership: Put your support on automatic with our annual plan, and get one month of membership for free!Tailscale: Tailscale is a programmable networking software that is private and secure by default - get it free on up to 100 devices! 1Password Extended Access Management: 1Password Extended Access Management is a device trust solution for companies with Okta, and they ensure that if a device isn't trusted and secure, it can't log into your cloud apps. Support LINUX UnpluggedLinks:💥 Gets Sats Quick and Easy with Strike📻 LINUX Unplugged on Fountain.FMMeshtastic Linux-Native ApplicationMeshMap — Meshtastic Node MapLINUX Unplugged 269 — What if desktop computing went a very different direction in the late 90s? Deeply multithreaded from the start, fast, intuitive, and extremely stable. This is the world of Haiku, and we go for a visit.The Dawn of Haiku OS — Haiku, unlike its more established competitors, is exceedingly good at tackling one of the toughest challenges of modern computing: multicore microprocessors. Let's take a look at why that is, how Haiku came to be, and whether the operating system running on your computer really performs as well as it should.Haiku Project HistoryHaiku R1/beta5 Release Notes — The fifth beta for Haiku R1 over a year and a half of hard work to improve Haiku’s hardware support and its overall stability, and to make lots more software ports available for use.docker-qemu-haiku — A Docker image for the Haiku operating system.golang-haiku/go — The Haiku port of the Go programming language for upstream support. Changes are made in 'golang-1.11-haiku' or 'golang-haiku-master'.Using the remote app server | Haiku ProjectJB Haiku ServerLighttpdDHH Talks Apple, Linux, and Running ServersAnnual Membership — Put your support on automatic with our annual plan, and get one month of membership for free!dadjoke-clicolmenaspectorus' NixOS ConfigPick: rustpad — Efficient and minimal collaborative code editor, self-hosted, no database requiredIs the Nostr moment officially here?

Hello, good afternoon and welcome. Let me try and explain what we're trying to accomplish with the BOS. We're trying to create the ideal platform for the development of a new breed of new digital media applications. You've seen the success of Linux, so if you want a soundbite to summarize what we're trying to accomplish, we're trying to become the Linux of audio and video applications. Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. Hello, Wes. Well, your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. Hello Wes.

Well, coming up on the show today, we're going to try out our perfect Linux escape hatch OS. If we had to leave the Linux desktop today for some reason, where would we go? Then we'll do a hard shift and we'll talk about ways to bring more pro users to Linux with some insights that I think long-time Linux users need to hear. So we'll talk about that as well. And then, of course, we're going to round the show out with some great boosts, picks, and a lot more. Mr. Brantley is off sick from traveling.

Get better, buddy. So we're giving him the Sunday off, but we do have our mumble room here. Time-appropriate greetings, virtual lug. Hello, hello. Hello, Chris and hello, Wes. Hello. Hello. We got a tight crew on hello, Wes. Hello. Hello.

We got a tight crew on air, only a handful of you. And then we got like a slightly larger crew in the quiet listening. On a Sunday, we're here doing the show. We said we wouldn't be, but yet here we are. So we have a lot to get into this morning. So I want to say good morning to our friends at Tailscale. Let's go to Tailscale.com slash unplugged right now. Let's go.

Try it. I was already there. Of course you were. Tailscale is the way to connect your devices directly to each other, wherever they are, whatever device they are, on whatever network they're on. And when you go to Tailscale.com slash unplugged, you can get it for free for 100 devices and three accounts. That's not a limited time plan.

That is the plan. You get it for 100 devices. It's the plan I'm on. It'll completely blow your mind on what's possible with WildGal. There it is. I had to spin him up for it. It's privacy for everyone in every organization. Talescale.com slash unplugged.

Now, I want to announce something that we've been working on behind the scenes, and it's something that we've been taking pretty seriously and really, really, really excited about. The show is gearing up to talk about Meshtastic. So for those of you who don't know, Meshtastic is an open-source, off-grid, decentralized mesh network built on affordable, low-power devices. So you can use cheap LoRa radios, like in the 900 megahertz range, to communicate with each other in an off-grid platform, even if, say, the cell network is down or something like that, maybe during a natural disaster. They support long range.

Listener Jeff's got up to like 90 miles plus in his testing. And others have seen it as high as like 150, 160 miles in some of their testing. There's a community of repeaters out there that help extend the network. It's all open source. It's a decentralized communications network that you can send and receive text messages between the members of the mesh. You can optionally tag GPS-based locations on there. So you could, in theory, also use this to create something like an Apple AirTag alternative that's open source. I'm very much seriously thinking about it as a way to do sensors for garden and for sheds that is remote and low power and resilient. And there's just a lot here, not to mention the usefulness, say, in an emergency, not

to take away from ham and what we want to do with ham in the future. That's a separate topic. But we thought maybe even after we covered this, if we did it in the right way, maybe our community would want to get involved and help build out the mesh. And we could use some help. Maybe we could start transmitting messages amongst each other. And we could use some help. Maybe we could start transmitting messages amongst each other.

And behind the scenes, listener Jeff has been building and testing all kinds of various devices, some with solar, some not. Just all kinds of neat ways to do this, ones that we can mount on poles. And so we're asking for your help to get Jeff up here so that way we can make a full episode out of this. So we want to get him out here for a few days in October to work with us, install it, test, learn how all these units work, and then come into the studio and do the episode with us, get some of his experience and share our experiences getting it all set up.

And he would pay for the whole thing on his own. He would. He's already worked for weeks on this at his own time and expense. But that doesn't seem right, right? We want to hire him as a consultant here to teach us what we need to know. I'd like to try to raise around $500 or so to get him up here from mid-California to north of Seattle. I think probably it's a fraction of his overall cost that he's into this, but I think it'd be a nice little way we could return some value to him.

So what we're doing this week, since we're down a man, is we're going to include Jeff's Lightning Wallet in our splits this week. So if you boost, your message will go directly to him, including the message itself and some of the sats. And we're going to try to build that little wallet up there to about $500 or so. So that way he has that to draw on for his gas money and his foods as he comes up and back down this long stretch on the West Coast. comes up and back down this long stretch on the West Coast. And the nice thing about him getting a copy of your message is if you have any questions about Meshtastic or have an experience with this type of thing, he'll be able to get that too. So please do boost in any questions you have regarding the topic or anything in general you want to help support this, I guess, mission to get Jeff up here so that way we can do

this episode. And he'll get a copy of it as well as we will. It's a nice way to, I hope, do this in a way that's really serious. Instead of us just sitting here telling you about the features and reading the website, we're going to actually have hands-on experience. Jeff has experience building these things. He's going to help us learn how to use this stuff hands-on.

We're going to, you know, basically deep dive and really try to understand this thing when we come on air to talk to you about it. And hopefully, maybe, create something in the wider community around this network so i'm excited about the potential here the fact that the whole thing is open source and decentralized is right up my alley in particular particular and all you have to do to help make it a reality is boost in a message and a portion of your sats will go to jeff's wallet to get them up here how freaking excited is that you freaking excited are you?

Very. How great is it? I'm so grateful for all the time and energy Jeff's already put into it. I'll show you the pictures after we're done recording. They're some really cool looking devices. I mean, it feels like he's already helping extend our reach in a major way, right? Like, we're both interested in the project. Neither of us had time to dive into the extent that we'd like. Yeah. Jeff is doing that.

Yeah, it just wouldn't be possible. And it's one of those topics that we want to take seriously when we do talk about it. And to actually talk about it properly, you have to participate in the network. You have to see these devices, learn where it doesn't work.

Yeah, right. Yeah, what is it actually capable of right now in practice? Exactly, which I think is going to be a big component of it for us as well. And then, you know, if I could have anything, maybe it inspires a few community members to set up their own relays and nodes and maybe we're sending messages one day.

Eventually you find out if we're live on the mesh. Wouldn't that be something? So please do boost your support in and a message and we'll start stacking those stats to get Jeff out here early to mid-October. Okay, Wes. So it's a silly idea. It's never going to happen. It's really a problem we'll never have to worry about in Linux land because there's always a fork. There's always

another desktop environment. There's always another distro. It's one of the insurance policies about Linux. However, we have noticed an existential crisis amongst our Windows and Mac using friends out there. They're really feeling the pinch with the new OSs that are coming out. Yeah, AI everywhere and, you know, ads too, and just further being turned into, you know, more of a product than the consumer. And both Windows 11 and the new Mac OS deprecate hardware that's still perfectly good, and so people get left behind. And we thought, well, what if we put ourselves in their shoes? And what if something came along and it was just we had to leave Linux?

Yeah, Microsoft buys Linux somehow. That might be. I might stick it out to see that one. That's a wild one. But, okay, so we'd have to pick an OS. So why not Windows? I mean, I guess we could do Windows. There's even Linux in Windows these days.

Of course. I don't know, though. I think practically, you know, like if we were getting paid, someone was paying us to make this Windows system work, we could do it. Yes. I just don't know if there's enough joy. Like one of the things with Linux and desktop Linux is it's fun. It's joyful. It makes me enjoy using the computer.

And I just don't know if I can get there with Windows. Yeah, especially it's something I'm enthusiastic about, right? I'm enthusiastic about technology and computers and I want to be engaged. I want to enjoy the process. I want there to be more to learn about. Windows is so boring and also frustrating. Yeah, and it's gotten a lot better, especially with things like PowerShell and all the APIs you have these days.

But there's a lot of cruft too. And unlike the Mac, with Windows, there's a large variety of hardware vendors. True. You're not locked into a single platform. Right. The problem, and so this goes to the Mac, I think why macOS is not necessarily ideal is,

I mean, there isn't really a Mac I'd want to buy right now. They're really great computers and they're great hardware. But when you look at your options and what you're spending and the fact that the only thing that fully is supported on there is macOS, it all just feels so limited. Limited in my hardware choices, limited in my OS choices, and then limited what I can do with the computer. And Apple just keeps ratcheting that control down. They've made it even harder now to run unsigned apps. And it works really well as long as what you're trying to do with the machine aligns well with what Apple has planned for you to do with the machine. And if that is a good alignment and your task is well supported, then it's fantastic.

And if not, not only are you on your own, but you're like aggressively worked against on your own. Yeah, yeah. And it's just getting worse and worse, actually. Not only are you on your own, but you're like aggressively worked against on your own. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just getting worse and worse, actually. So the big guys are out. We need something else. We need something else. And this is where I think we ended up on Haiku. They had a new release.

R1 Beta 5 came out recently. And Haiku has several attributes that I think make it appealing to a Linux expat. Here's a couple of them. It's, now we're talking about Linux desktops particularly here, right? Because this is desktop focused. It is focused on a personal computing experience.

That's what they do. They have a custom kernel in this thing that is designed for application responsiveness and multi-threaded processor cores. Right, so compare this to maybe an OS, cough Linux, cough, that is often optimized for throughput

of back-end enterprise server applications. That can be a very different thing than, yeah, something that's focused on a particular workload that is different. And, you know, as much as we love some of our favorite desktop environments, some of the big ones, they have a lot of things that are on a single thread, not particularly well optimized for modern computing.

So Haiku, fully threaded design from the beginning, a rich object-oriented API for application developers that want to develop in the native environment. And then something that we're just kind of now getting on Linux, it's had forever, is a database-like file system, the BFS, which has support for extended metadata and querying like a database. Yeah, they've got this setup where you can, like, as an example, store your email just in the file system with all of its metadata exposed. So then any email app that understands that format, I mean, it's just doing, you know, selects from the database, but from the file system. And then you can build whatever client and UI and experience on top of that.

That's so cool. So as a developer, you don't even have to engineer that backend stuff. Done. It's done by the file system. It's so neat. And then it has one of those kind of intangible features that if you've been around for a while, you've heard the BSD bros promote. And that is the guiding hand of a single team.

The project consists of a single team that's writing everything from the kernel, the drivers, the user land, the services, the toolkit, the graphic stack, a lot of the default applications. They're all written by one singular team with one singular design vision. And it creates a consistency that i don't think any other desktop operating system has these days maybe early mac os kind of sort of but not really and they've been going for a long time yeah i mean what bos started itself in like 1991 i think yeah 1991 and then it had a good i don't know 10 year run until the early 2000s when it was no longer being developed. And that's when OpenBOS, which became Haiku, got a start. And I mean, that's already 20 plus years ago.

And what you have to understand is the reason why Haiku came along is because BOS was truly something special. We talked about this a little bit in LEP 269 back in like 2018 or something like that. It was a long time ago. But BOS was something truly special. It was performant in a way that no other operating system was. BOS was ready for the multi-core world when everything else was still single-threaded. BOS had protected memory when everything else had applications completely puking all over each other. BFS had a reasonable file system that could scale when we were still dealing with FAT16 and FAT32 in the Windows world. It was so, so far ahead that when the B company died, there was this community that came together that had to see this thing continue. that came together that had to see this thing continue.

And it truly still has a very usable interface, even though it's essentially the same design since the late 90s. Still works. Yeah, we've been giving it a go here this week, and I think I've used it one time prior to this. And there's a couple things that trip me up, but by and large, I was just getting stuff done right from the get-go. This new R1 Beta 5 release, it's totally worth

trying. It's a year of hard work to improve Haiku's hardware support and overall stability. They've got a lot of nice things in here, like some basics, like USB audio interface, but some nice TCP throughput performance, a rewritten driver for the FAT file system. I don't know, a lot of other things

in here that just make this, I think, if you've never tried haiku or if you've tried it once before it's time to check it out again you're going to be impressed right so like often when we're discussing some of these you know smaller niche projects that aren't linux or aren't even something like free psd you wonder like okay what hardware support what am I going to be able to use it for anything that isn't a toy? And I definitely think it has crossed the line over from, like, I just get a sense for what the UI was like and how it was back in the day in a VM over to like, oh, I can actually run this on something and it can do real work. Yeah.

Or at least it's gotten farther along that progression. And I think it's still very viable on older hardware. Even some 32-bit only systems, it's impressively viable. I put it on a Beelink Core 2 Duo with 8 gigs of RAM, and I'm not exaggerating when I tell you the interface feels snappier and faster than any modern computer I have. It feels like back in the days of the 80s with CRTs,

when stuff was just like blasted onto the screen. I cannot describe to you how fast the overall UI of this thing moves around and how smooth it is. It's so much faster than any of my other current Linux desktops. And, you know, some of them are using compositors, so that kind of adds to like the time to like put the window up on the screen because they maybe faded in and stuff like that, where everything in here is super snappy. Right. We are now in an era where you've added drop shadows and all kinds of effects to the little edge cases in the system now. So what did you think when you were trying it? What was your overall takeaway?

Oh boy, yeah. I mean, I definitely have to wax poetic on what you're seeing, the consistency, the design language that fits throughout. I think, too, I did some reading through the original or the upgraded B book and then some of the Haiku documentation. The documentation, while maybe, you know, a little scattered at times, we're not always completely up to date. It's good. Like, there's a lot of it and there's a lot of things answered in terms of, like, how do I install this thing? How do I do networking services? A lot of the questions you're going to have coming from like a Linux desktop user are already answered there. So that's worth checking out. But what struck me is, you know,

you talk about the responsiveness and the multi-threading, how much work they put into baking that in first with BOS and, you know, continued in Haiku into like the actual ways that app developers work, right? Like it's, you can make continued in Haiku into like the actual ways that app developers work, right? Like it's, you can make a really responsive and multi-threaded app for the Linux desktop, but you probably have to like go the extra mile to add those things and make sure it is as performing as you want and is taking advantage of all of the hardware available to the system. Whereas I'm getting the sense in the haiku world, if you just sort of follow the standard path and use the widgets provided,

that's taken care of for you, you know? And that, I don't know, there's a lot to like about that because it means it extends to everything and not just the exceptional apps that are written by authors who have a lot of experience and care a lot. Were you surprised to see the amount of applications that were available? Things like Telegram and...

Yes, I was. There's a ton of stuff. I mean, just to start with, using the terminal felt... Yeah, it's Bash. It's Bash. It feel... A lot of the programs I expected to be there were there. I mean, not the Linux-specific stuff, but if you've, you know, you've played with the

BSD world, you are on a Mac, so it's kind of the Unix star world. It feels like that. The file system layout is definitely unique, but if you're used to using Bash and those commands, you have all that stuff you're typically using on a Linux box. It's a pretty quick transition. But then also they have GTK and Qt support as well. Right. I did not expect that. Yeah.

And there's this Haiku ports project, so there's a lot of stuff that you might want. Not everything, but a lot of the things are available in there, like Wine is in there. I installed that. I haven't given it a go yet. Yeah, I haven't either yet. Yeah. But that gave me a tickle. I just thought, well, if I can't get the Linux version of an application I want, maybe I'll get the Windows version.

And, of course, like there's a lot of pretty decent built-in utilities that either, you know, survived from the era and been upgraded or are new to Haiku. The terminal's totally fine. The disk partitioning is a little bit minimal, but, you know, definitely works. Like, you've got a lot of the basics taken care of in nice little apps. You know, it was funny. I was opening, I was checking things out, looking through all the options, and I clicked the About This System in Haiku, and they've got a little uptime ticker there and i

think just watching that you can tell there's like this you know you're talking about snappiness i almost want to call it liveness like you can just tell that little ticker is going to update like no matter what else is going on you know i can be doing a bunch of other stuff or trying to play a video in the background, and, like, that ticker is just always attended to. So when they originally built this operating system and the kernel, you know, they wanted people to use this as the OS to do digital video editing, which is a whole new concept because before then everything was analog. And they wanted it to always remain responsive.

So even, like, the individual menus are multi-threaded and the OS is scheduled in such a way that it always tries to remain responsive to you as you're doing stuff. I think you can tell too, like they've got some pretty great, you know, like monitoring built in. So you can go see memory usage per application

and then threads and CPU per application. That itself is super responsive like I almost don't even need NetData with the stuff that's built in here So do you think you could daily drive it? Like if you know you had to stop using Linux today could you install

Haiku tonight and do daily driver stuff tomorrow and the next day? I think technically, yes. So they've ported WebKit and then made a little Haiku interface wrapper over it called WebPositive, which is the default built-in web browser.

It works, right? I mean, you can browse Reddit. You can do most of your normal things. I could log into my Bitwarden vault with the web UI. So I think if I had to, all the Linux installs in the world got deleted in some horrible mistake. Yes. But would I want to? No.

I think it's a little bit too limited for that. Yeah. There's just not. For you and I, we're used to millions of packages available to us and all these kinds of like – I can just do something totally off the wall with my computer tomorrow. I don't know, Haiku. I mean there's – I see there's Docker. People have Docker working on Haiku. I mean there's some things you could do there, but it feels a little inflexible in that way.

What do you think though? What do you think it needs, Wes, to be viable for a family member? Because that's a different bar, I think. Like, you know, stereotypical mom or dad computer. So speaking from my own experience, I think it's a lot closer than for me, right?

I mean, I'm a weirdo. I like to K-exec, use Nix, cheers. Oh, cheers. But for my mom, who, you know, wants to play some games on the internet

and catch up with friends via email, I think having even just like proper Firefox, let alone Chrome or a more big name browser, I think that might be enough. Yeah, because you've got a lot of other apps.

There's like a LibreOffice. You've got Mail. You've got a lot of the daily driver stuff. There's even a terminal. There's a terminal. They did just in this most recent beta release add ton-tap support. Yep. So eventually VPNs, I think, are going to be a thing.

There's already SSH. So if you've got network support for a VPN or other remote options you could provide remote support that way. I could see it does virtualize very well. I mean it's kind of

just incredibly well. It's sort of like the experience of having XFCE in a virtual machine but you know better. That's because it can do incredible software rendering

because the early computers that BIOS had to run on did not even have dedicated graphics acceleration so they designed this system to be able to run modern software using CPU rendering. And so, you know, if you put in a VM with just a decent graphics compatibility and a decent CPU and memory, it doesn't have to be much. It works. It could be a really good VM machine.

Pycrash points out that I guess there's a work-in-progress port for the Ladybird browser. So that could be something as both those projects develop. Jeff points out, dear listener Jeff, the Haiku installer is so dang fast too. Like seconds, yes. I had a note here. The Haiku installer gets the system installed faster than some Linux distributions can boot into their installer. Like it's just so fast. I actually got it running on the 32-bit laptop we used for the 32-bit challenge.

So I had Mageia on there still from the challenge. So I booted that up first. That was a contrast. Yeah. I mean, just waiting for that thing to boot, I think it was faster to get Haiku installed, to boot and then install Haiku than it was just to boot into Magia. Yes, because it also, it boots very fast too. It boots fast and installs fast.

I was impressed. I was a little, like, they, you know, they provide an ISO, any boot thing that you can, it works as an image, it works as an ISO. It's very handy. I was surprised by how easy it was to get installed too. Because I kept installing it either over things or I messed something up. I had a few experiences where it wasn't just like the regular route, so I had to do some partitioning myself. And the EFI support is there.

I wasn't sure how that was going to be, but you just make the EFI partition like you would do on anything else, and that works. And then when I was doing the 32-bit version on the old laptop, I had to do MBR support, and that just works too. Like you don't even have to do anything. You can just add a single BFS partition and then run the installer and it'll that's it does the as the rest on the bios only it's just one partition it's so simple it's the simplicity of mac os classic with some of the

power of linux yeah i like that like you have a bunch of the unixy stuff but then at the same time you have that like like the file system right like It's like you go to slash system slash apps, and then there's just the apps there. Yep. It's clean. It's designed so well. It almost makes me a little sad that this didn't become a wider adopted operating system. And I'm happy to see they've added a couple of nice new features, like the battery widget now gives you all kinds of information about your battery.

So there's a few power user features tucked in there. I didn't get a chance to play with this too, but there's a remote app support and they do it the right way. So they say here that their remote app server forwards the app server calls through the network and the drawing happens on the client side where the screen is, which is always the best way to do it if you can. Yeah. You're just forwarding the commands, not like the best way to do it if you can. Yeah. You're just forwarding the commands, not like the actual, you know, bitmaps. Which is a lot more like how X11 did it back in the day and how RDP did it. And so you can have a nice, fast front end and the apps just feel a lot snappier. So I wanted to play with that.

I was debating with myself, is this a toy operating system? Who is the perfect haiku user? And you have to definitely kind of enjoy a classic aesthetic, which I do. And like Wes said, if your standard web app that would work in kind of a Chrome-compatible type browser covers you, you're probably okay. I also think since it doesn't update super frequently,

they do have daily releases, but these big releases are a little infrequent. It's a good operating system for those of you that don't want a lot of change. I picture maybe the perfect users out in a cabin enjoying nature in the woods. Maybe they live by a crick. Like things simpler. Yeah, maybe you got some older hardware and you want it to be fast and snappy. You don't want to make it feel like old hardware.

You know like how the original OSs that shipped on these computers always felt snappy, but then over time, the newer OSs get slower and slower. It's like going back in time. PyCrash does point out that, I think by default, and maybe they're working on this, I don't know, it's a single user sort of environment. Yeah.

Well, I want to talk about that for a second. You know, it's very much, one of the big contrasting things from Linux is it's clearly designed to be a desktop first. It's not a server OS that also runs a desktop, and it's not a desktop that is meant to also be used as a server, like, say, Windows. So I thought we should do the right thing, and we should try to make it a server, Wes. What do you think? Let's do it.

Yeah. So we did a little experimenting how feasible this was. And Wes, you discovered it's actually quite feasible to turn Haiku into, say, a web server. Yeah. Actually, if you want to go to haiku.jupiterbroadcasting.com, you can get a version of our website mostly correctly served via Haiku. Yeah. I see one or two errors up there. But that's not bad.

That loads really fast. I think it might be snappier than our regular. It might be, actually. Yeah, even with people hitting it right now on the live stream. haiku.jupiterbroadcasting.com is still coming up now. Wes, is this running on a desktop? Is this running on a laptop? Tell me where this is at.

Yeah, it's actually running on a VPS. It was surprisingly easy. I was like, is the networking going to work? Like, come on, right? No? But I saw there was a note about getting it going, I was like, is the networking going to work? Like, come on, right? No, but I saw there was a note about getting it going on VPS instances, including AWS. I was using Volter because I already had an account there and they had

doc specific. So I, I basically just pointed, they have an upload a custom ISO function as a lot of these providers do. I pointed that at the Haiku 64 bit ISO, uploaded it, booted a server up and booted right quick. And you got to go into like you know

the the console vnc viewer to do stuff installed and boom i mean the networking just worked so you do have to do a little bit of stuff like make a you know like a host key do the ssh keygen stuff and then because it's single user you got to go enable permit root login oh login because you're basically the root user. So there's some security things that you might want to be aware of depending on your application use case because it does stem from an era before internet security. And security in general maybe were the, you know. But it turns out that the overall design of Haiku actually kind of makes it a decent little server. I mean, it's still up right now and loading instantaneously as we have the live stream kind of bang on it so what are

we running on here and how hard was it to get running surprisingly not that difficult it even ships with a built-in web server called poor man because it's supposed to just be a poor man's web server oh yeah i like it uh i was running some issues it seemed like maybe are the files for the website which fair warning i did not actually use GetHugo running. It might be possible. I didn't get that far. So I compiled the website with Hugo. I built it on my laptop.

I just SCP'd the tarball of the files over. All right. But we're using light HTTPD. Okay. Which is great. But there's also Apache and Nginx available in the Haiku board stream. There's also Python. Oh.

So I did a version of this just using the built-in Python little web server that comes by default. So that also worked. It wasn't as snappy, but it was still pretty good. I also noticed there's stuff like Erlang and Elixir and the JVM is available in Haiku ports. Also things like Postgres and Redis. So you can run your SaaS business on this if you wanted to.

So the OS that's not meant to be a server, turns out it makes a great little server. What is the specs, like RAM and CPU that this thing's on? Because I cannot believe I'm sitting here refreshing like a madman. It's still incredibly fast. Do you remember if it's a very powerful system? It's two core. They're shared cores, but like a two core VPS. AMD Epic Roam at two gigs is what this is reporting.

With two gigs of memory. Haiku is currently using 431 megs. And it's so fast. Can we leave it up for a bit so the folks listening at home can try it? Oh, absolutely. At least a week or so, maybe longer. And then at the same time, I've got the VNC Web UI. Oh, so you're looking at the desktop right now. I'm looking at the desktop while it's doing the surveying.

Oh, it looks so good. Yeah. It really does look good like that. And you know, there's still a little bit of ENC lag, but it's about as optimal experience as you could want for that. This is such a solid little OS. It's also super solid, speaking of stability. You know, SSH is running.

It's got an FTP server if you want that for some reason. So I'm able to SSH and do, you know, maintenance that way. Wow. Well, we told you we're going to build a new infrastructure. You just didn't expect it to be on Haiku, did you? No. 1password.com slash unplugged. Picture your company security. It's like a college quad, and there's those nice paved paths, the ones that are approved devices and applications and sign-ons and things like that. And then there's those shortcuts, the ones that people actually use that wear through the grass.

You see them everywhere at every college campus. I see them in Texas on the off-ramps. And when I was in IT, the big problem besides things like cloud storage was people just starting to bring their MacBooks in and kind of trying to run things on the MacBook on the DL. Most security tools, they only check on those approved devices, on those machines that IT is watching. And well, let's be honest, the real action happens on the devices that they bring with them or their personal devices or things of that nature. That's where one password extended access management comes in. It's like putting security cameras on those shortcuts. It ensures that strong passwords and healthy devices and all of that stuff is in practice,

and it's checked before they can sign in. It keeps an eye on all of your company's applications. It solves the problems that traditional IAMs and MDMs just are simply not designed to handle. They're kind of from a different era. 1Password is truly for the modern workplace. It's for how we actually work today. And it's available for Okta, Microsoft Entra, and it's in beta for Google Workspace as well.

So go check it out at 1password.com slash unplugged. I could only imagine if I had something like this. It's 1Password, the number one, 1password.com slash unplugged. All right, let's switch from pretending like we have to bail on Linux because we don't. I can wipe the sweat off my brow on this one. What about helping out the folks that, you know, are on those other OSs who are running into more problems and maybe are considering fleeing to something like our dear desktop Linux. Is there anything we can do on the show here to, I don't know, lay some groundwork for them?

It's a good question because I think there's a category of user out there that is primed now, like a new wave. We're at the precipice of a new wave because we've talked about DHH. Remember him, the creator of Ruby on Rails, and he created Omicube? Indeed. DHH, remember him, the creator of Ruby on Rails, and he created Amacube? Indeed. And that kind of tier of web developer user who's building web apps, they're opinionated about their desktop, and they have certain things they want,

but they're getting frustrated with Windows, they're getting frustrated with Mac OS. And this came up, I think, because DHH was on the How About Tomorrow podcast, which we'll have linked in the show notes. And they talked to him and got an update on his switch from Mac to Linux. Because DHH was on the How About Tomorrow podcast, which we'll have linked in the show notes. And they talked to him and got an update on his switch from Mac to Linux. And for those of you who don't know him, his company, 37signals, and himself has been very, very Mac-heavy for a long time. He's a Mac enthusiast. He was all in on Apple. And then he discovered that Linux was like this panacea of potential. And so he suggests, after going through what has now, I think,

been like almost a year-long journey, that upon reflection, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this, Wes, he feels like developers would be better off actually learning Linux just to make them better developers. If you are a developer, I think there are actually legitimate benefits, and maybe some of it is just you kind of just acclimate to your environment. But I thought in just those six months that I've been using Linux full time, I've gotten far more comfortable with Linux in ways that are pushing me on like, what are we

doing on the server? And this is what I see as one of those main benefits. Anyone who works in web development today, they may work on a Mac, but they deploy on Linux. No one is deploying on a Mac box. They're not deploying on a Windows box either. I know there are some people actually literally doing that, but like 95% of the internet runs on Linux. And if you are a developer working

with the web, I think you owe it to yourself to understand what's going on. And I don't think that the cloud is able to pave over that experience to a degree that is helpful for you. And I also think it locks you into a bunch of overpriced premium AWS wrapper services that you'd be better off without. So what I found interesting here, Wes, is he's saying something that we've kind of speculated on the show. And that is the cloud services can be great, they can help you build fast,

but there's still a lot of value in learning Linux and how it works under the system, and it will make you a better developer or will make you a better administrator. Yeah, I mean, even if it's not going to be your sole focus, having an understanding of how your system actually runs in production is something I'm, yeah, always a big proponent of. And as you point out, I mean, yeah, like take advantage of the cloud

where it makes strategic sense for you. But it's always struck me like you're learning proprietary APIs, right? Like your whole thing, you got so excited about the newer thing released by AWS and maybe it's going to make your business profitable and that's great. But at the end of the day, you're just learning their api and when you learn the underlying linux stuff i mean even if you're just running containers those containers are running on a linux system right somewhere you understand what they're doing you understand what that api is triggering on the back end you have a better conceptualization of of what's happening i also think um maybe it takes a little bit of the mystery away you know

like yeah sort of de-shine some of that hype from the cloud market yes i think the cloud marketing I also think maybe it takes a little bit of the mystery away. Yeah, sort of de-shine some of that hype from the cloud marketing. Yes, I think the cloud marketing really overplays the difficulty. I mean, I'm not saying every company should. The actual choice between what cloud usage you do and what your deployment situation depends on what staff do you have, what are you trying to do, what's your business. We can't answer that here. How much money you got to burn.

But knowing what it actually takes into just like, you know, running some servers yourself, maybe that helps inform what level of automation and abstraction you want to pick for your business. I also think, you know, if you're on the Mac, you're not incentivized to ask questions or to play underneath, right? Like all your Docker stuff is running through Docker desktop or Podman desktop or some levels of like, can you even easily get into the VM that's orchestrated in all the containers. It's all abstracted away from you.

And then you have to contend with the specifics of macOS, which are totally fine. But like there's so many processes running. And the tooling doesn't always expose all the options to the underlying stuff. And so you could easily be in a corners case where if you just knew the syntax to run it, you could solve it, but the desktop app doesn't allow it. You touch on something there that DHH touches in the podcast that maybe we'll play in the post-show. And that is that after his journey,

he actually ended up really liking 2E apps, terminal user interface apps like NeoVim and LazyGit. And he has this realization, oh, I could have been using these all along on macOS. I just didn't know this whole world existed. And it wasn't until I came over to Linux that I discovered this stuff because I started learning more and I started trying new things again. And he talks about how he tried to make VS Code replace TextMate. And he ultimately ended up with going something that is different and better, and he just absolutely loves. And it's a terminal interface that you could have used on the Mac,

but like you said, the Mac discourages you from going down that path. There's more hoops to jump through. You've got to get Brew set up and sideload Nix and get it all working. There's not a big Mac community doing that either. Right. And then you compete with all of the actual app marketplace that does exist for Mac, for better or for worse. Right, right.

There's also a point in the interview. He touches on something that I don't know how we're going to solve this, but I think this is the number one problem facing Linux for this demographic user, these web devs and people in this kind of category that could switch to Linux that are on MacBooks right now, that are getting frustrated with macOS. But they look at Linux with, like, glasses from 1999. Linux is a little bit more of an adventure, but holy shit, what an awesome adventure it is. And what an incredible oasis you're able to arrive at. That was what actually blew my mind. I didn't know legitimately if you spent the time to set it up,

Linux could be not just good, but here I'm really going to go out on a limb, better. And again, I am biased at this point. I accept it. I like the Linux setup I have today better. I'm not like making do with scraps here. I like it better than what I have on macOS. That's pretty freaking incredible.

I'm not saying, again, it's better for everyone. I'm not going to force my wife to convert to Linux tomorrow for the reasons we talked about. For me as a developer, Linux is better. And that was quite the revelation. I mean, I literally legitimately did not know. I thought that Linux, I still had an idea of Linux that was based in what, 2009 or something. And that wasn't accurate. a nudge, thank you, to explore what modern day Linux looks like. And not only was it better in terms of ergonomics, not only was it better in terms of sort of the infrastructure plumbing,

not only did Docker run about 400 million times better on Linux, but it could also look amazing. So this is the bit that I know is true, because when I try out the new macOS, and I'm having problems with like sound blips coming out the speakers and lots of application incompatibility, I see so many rough

edges that when I come with Linux eyes and I look at the Mac, I can tell this is no longer a power user experience. And what DHA said there that really kind of resonated with me is he was looking at it with a 2009 perspective. He thought it was still a hot mess. But the reality is Mac OS is becoming more of a mess than Linux is. And all of the primitives are there. Pipewire is super stable. Wayland is getting really great.

Now it's really coming down to like top layer implementations. And with Amacube, he's solved that problem. getting really great. Now it's really coming down to like top layer implementations. And well, with Amacube, he's solved that problem. And I mean, you know, we can't pretend that you, it's as integrated or easier. There's still lots of ways that, you know, macOS has the advantage, but yeah, I think you're right. Like if you're willing to put in some amount of time, you can solve the things, many of the things that may matter for your particular workflow. I mean, sometimes that might be making sure you buy the right hardware or the right monitor and graphics card setup so that you can have a usable multi-monitor setup or whatever but it is doable and i guess the part that's hard when you're on the other side is you might not see all the areas

that are painting yeah like until you've had the contrast like oh right that was really annoying me and i didn't i wasn't you know actually waiting enough how much it was annoying me and knowing that i could not be annoyed by it yeah once it's gone you realize oh this is so much better all these applications don't each individually ask me to update them oh god that's so annoying you know like in a system that you feel like you understand that's one of the things i love about like a like a nix or an Arch or I mean even just an Omicube desktop when you've read through all the scripts, you know? Like you can actually, I mean,

no one understands the full Linux kernel. We all know that. But you can really have a good sense of like what is running, why, and how to manipulate it if you need to. I'm really glad you brought that up because that's a point he brings up in the podcast that he understands now better how this system works. And he's been reading that motorcycle maintenance book, The Zen and Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

Oh, yeah. That's a great book. And I've read it too. And that book talks about how good it is to the soul to understand how your machine works and to know what the individual parts do and to know how to fix them. And that's something that is uniquely available to Linux users that isn't available to Mac OS users. And what he likes is that Linux gives him the opportunity to begin to understand how the system works. And he appreciates that it's going to be a multi-year journey, but that is something to look forward to, not something to dread.

And I think there's, I think a lot of people that are software developers that work in that space that are pro users also would benefit from that just understanding, even just a little bit, how the machine works. Like if you compare how much better the average Linux user understands computers than the average, and not to, I mean, again, just the average Windows user, not power Windows user, but average Windows users, there's a huge delta in the Linux users understanding versus the average user. And I just don't understand how we as a community can change this mentality of Linux from 2009. I think when a lot of people bailed and got MacBooks. Like, how do we, so I guess my question is, is how do we reach more users like DHH? Like, what could this podcast do?

What could we as Linux users do? I wonder, do we have hope, some hope in the, I don't know, the newer era of immutable distros and sort of like simpler approaches and with more, you know, you have things like Omicube and things like Bluefin. Or maybe you have like, here's an environment where all that tinkering is available to you if you want it, and in that case, targeted in the language you speak with container files. Yeah, using the stack you understand already. But it's set up enough, because I get the hurdle of, like, you know, this boss is already wanting my PR done, and you want me to, like, switch to Linux and figure out how to redo my whole workflow yeah but I honestly I think AbaCube should be like a uBlue kind of spin thing I

think it should be done that way I just pre-bake it in and then it's ready to go I mean I you and I really really enjoy using Nix on the desktop but I think this is the perfect space for that type of what do they say cloud native Really, that just means everything's built on containers. But the reality is that's what folks understand in this space. And so it means they could use Linux in the systems approachable to them. I think you're right. It is this era of these types of immutable distributions, perhaps with things like Framework and other laptop vendors like System76 and Tuxedo that can make more and more compelling

laptops. Yeah, decent hardware that you want to actually buy. Has a few ports, things like that, right? I think that's got to be part of it. It's officially fall. That means the summer discount is over, but the annual membership is here. You can put your support on automatic with our new annual plan and you'll get one month of membership for free. I know some of you out there have been waiting for the annual membership

plan. That's just how you roll. This is for the Jupiter party. So it gets you all of the shows at one price with one month in there for free. Now, there's only one place to get this. It's our sneaky link in our show notes. You'll find the link there. I don't have like a fancy URL. Not yet, at least. But I know a lot of you have been asking for this. The annual membership. You can get one month for free when you sign up right now to put your support just on automatic. And then

you can choose from the bootleg version or the ad-free version of this show, as well as you get the extended cut of self-hosted with the post show, and you get the ad-free version of Coder Radio and you get the ad free version of coder radio and the coderly that we put out on occasion for our members it's a lot of content in there there's even more too when we like there's other sometimes specials and all kinds of stuff for the jupiter party so go check it out we have a link to the annual membership in the show notes and

thanks for your support you know we don't have any feedback this week because, well... Brent's got the mailbag. That's right. And it's really frowned upon to go peeking at someone else's mailbag. I don't know why he brings it to Berlin either. I mean, you got to check that thing. That doesn't seem secure. It weighs like 65 pounds.

But we do have some boosts. And Indigo Eagle is our baller booster this week with 65,333 sats. Hey, Rich Lobster! Got a pretty good deal this week with 65,333 sats. Got a pretty good deal this week, Eagle, and they write, Wes, I'm excited to hear how your mom's laptop turns out. You're going with NixOS, right? Tempted to try it for my dad's laptop. I do think I very well might. I haven't actually gotten as far. She was just doing some travel for work and is just getting back. So I still

got to go build the thing and get her set up. Yeah. So I need to start crafting the NixOS configuration if I'm going to go that route. Oh, you should think about it, Wes. I think I should just for the factor alone that at this point it's the thing I'm most familiar with. There's that. I think that makes it easiest to support too. And, I mean, there's the self-documenting.

There's all the regular aspects. And the rollbacks and all that yeah uh well you keep us posted okay i will yeah i think in the next couple weeks things should uh start moving again all right hybrid sarcasm boosts in with um granddaddy ducks 22 222 sats things are looking up for old mcduck oh doing our work for us hybrid comes in with an app pick to make us laugh dad joke cli oh what could this be i wonder it's a simple cli to bring you the freshest dad jokes straight to your terminal all right should we try one okay dad joke why does a moon rock taste better than an earth rock because it's a little meatier. Yeah, okay, that lives up to its name, Wes. I like that.

Thank you, Hybrid. That's some fun. Planet Ace comes in with a row of McDucks, 22,222 sats. This old duck still got it. Long-time listener, first-time booster, hey-o. And a Jupiter signal number.

Wow. Doing double duty. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to get it all set up, too. I really am liking what you guys are doing. I hope you all get to have a reasonable break. You have to do that sometimes.

I do use Nix from time to time myself, but I'm no expert, so I'm really enjoying the Nix chat and the shenanigans. I'm in the automotive trades, not IT work, but I really use Linux outside of work mostly. I found a local supplier of SATs in my country in New Zealand,

so hopefully you'll see me more often. Take it easy out there. Kind regards. Oh, neat. You know, if the supplier is a public one and you want to share, maybe consider it, because I don't know, maybe other folks down there

would like to use it. And hello to New Zealand. Indeed. Thanks for boosting in. Nice to hear from you, Ace. Tarion comes in with $22,222. Wes, that's another row of McDucks. Things that are looking up for old McDuck.

Hello from Open Source Summit Europe in Vienna. Hello, Vienna! Quacka quacka, it's a treasure! Yippee! That's great. Yeah, I wish we could have been there, but we did see some of the coverage. I'd love to know how it was for you. Yeah, we have been kind of checking in on the coverage, that's true. That is true.

You know, there's always some Rust discussion I'm always following. Indeed. Nice to was for you. Yeah, we have been kind of checking in on the coverage. That's true. That is true. And, you know, there's always some Rust discussion I'm always following. Indeed. Nice to hear from you. User77 comes in with 9,562 sats. Coming in hot with the boost. Hey, Mob. I know I'm a few weeks late, but my first Linux was OLAF. O-L-O-A-F.

Loaf? Loaf. Running on top of a Pentium 90 with a dial-up modem as my firewall and gateway. All right. I challenge you to set up Loaf now. Put it on a USB drive to use. I'm not 19 myself. A career went another way, but I still love playing with Linux.

By the way, thanks for getting me hooked on NixOS. Love the show. Cheers from, I'm going to say, cheers from Australia. P.S. Postcode may not be on the map because there be dragons. Uh-oh, you got any map difficulties there, Wes? AUS is Australia, perhaps? Yes, I believe so. Okay.

Let's see if this is. To clarify, Loaf is Frisco Linux. All this talk about low power got me thinking I need a new server. The Dell T630 is a little power hungry. Maybe a Ryzen box. You know, the B-Link, the Ryzen B-Link, it's got a slot for an extra disk.

Wow, Wes. Well, I'm just trying to validate things here. Okay, I think, how about somewhere near Baker's Hill in Western Australia? Hello, Baker's Hill. I hope so. Let us know if we got it right. What do you think? You feel confident on that one?

I'm going to go with 80%. Oh, not bad. Not bad. Spectaurus boosts in with 2,322 cents. Put some macaroni and cheese on there, too. For managing multiple NICS systems, I've found Colmina. I'm using it myself, and it works great.

My personal repo is not quite ready to share yet, but maybe once I update the readme, I'll boost that back in. Oh, and then boosting back in with my Nixflake with multi-machine management. All right, well, there's one to check out for the curious. You know, we should probably, I don't know, do a roundup or something, because there's a lot of seemingly great NixOS deployment options out there. This is a common one, but there's,

I don't know, at least a handful of four or five. Yeah, you're right. I wish we would have been keeping a specific list as they've come in now that I think about it. But maybe we will start. Yeah, thank you for your experience report. We'll have to go, you know, we love digging into NixConfig, so thanks for sharing.

Yes, we will. Zach Keeles comes in with 2,048 sats. Good news, everyone. And it's a boost for? Wag out. Thank you. Yeah, right, and for OpenSats, who's providing funding for Jason Dunfeld. Yeah, the splits for that, right, thank you. The splits for that episode went to OpenSats Project, to the general fund.

Coffee or Death comes in with 12,345 sats. So the combination is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Boosting in for Team Toronto and Matrix. Here's some support for health insurance and time off. Hey-o! Thank you, Coffee or Death. Nice to hear from you. Torp comes in with 9,999 sats. It's over 9,000! Certifiably.

He says, I think we'll see Rust in the kernel, but only when it's ready and when we're ready eventually in time, et cetera, et cetera. But I think it's a good thing. Your thoughts? That's a good thing. Your thoughts? Yeah. I mean, the process has to shake out. You know, speaking of the open source summit, Linus just did another keynote with Turkondle, and they talked a little bit about Rust and the process. And I don't know, at least for as long as Linux's Linus is around, it seems like there's some support from the top for that.

So I do think it'll happen in time, and people either figure out if they're going to touch Rust or not. Yeah. You know, I know the Asahi project is waiting on a lot of their stuff still, which is written in Rust to get merged. So it's just slowed. But we are starting to see the minimum version platform stuff enter the kernel. 6.11 and 6.12 get even better about it. You know, we now have that Rust QR code thing that's going to land in 6.12, right?

Yeah. And I think maybe Fedora 42, they were at least talking about having a Rust-enabled kernel at one point. I don't know what the status of that is. We'd love it to go a little faster, but I think it may be around the corner now. I hope. And it's, you know, it's a lot of new stuff. It brings in a different approach to how you, you know, program for the kernel, so there's a lot to figure out.

Makes sense that you want to get it right. We'll keep an eye on it. Thank you, Torped. PC Nullref comes in with 3,000 sats. Sometimes my genius is it's almost frightening. Another boost is I seem to often get partially failed boosts, question mark? Yeah, we have been node

moving recently, and then every now and then there is a node that maybe goes offline because the Tor network, so there can be some variability in there. It's one of the reasons we've kind of done this distributed node system that we do have. And then Wes has created some really cool software that kind of makes sure that it checks on all the nodes, It's one of the reasons we've kind of done this distributed node system that we do have. And then Wes has created some really cool software that kind of makes sure that it checks on all the nodes, so if one of them gets

it, generally, we'll get that message. But it's not always 100%, and we've just recently been building that out. And then I see PC, you're coming from Castomatic. I don't know what that's got under the hood in terms of wall, but there's always the... I think it's Albi. Okay, so there's that side too, but Albi normally does work. Yeah.

Thank you for testing, NullRef, and that's good to hear from you. Block 7 comes in with 2,100 sats. Coming in hot with the boost! Open sats for the win. Yeah. Open sats is really neat. I saw a few people looked into open sats after the show last week and was impressed. I think it was really nice to have them in our splits as a thank you for supporting WireGuard.

Plopin. Do you think that's it, Wes? Or PLopin, but I like Plopin. Yeah, all right. They come in with 12,050 sats. Live long and prosper. Just trying to boost for the first time. It was quite a journey, but I'm very happy it worked.

It's a zip code boost. Just remove the last digit. If you find other countries with this code, it's probably where the chocolate is the best. That's a good hint. Thank you for taking the time, Plopin, for getting that all set up, too. I know it really can be a journey, especially depending on your jurisdiction. You know, because you're trying to buy a currency that's outside the system. Woo. Woo.

How's the mapping going there, Wes? Ah, this one's tricky. Yeah? Okay, so it was remove the last digit? Yeah. So is that 1205 then? I would be, yeah. It would be, yeah, exactly.

1205. Okay. Here. Yeah, geez. We're going to get a paper cut with that thing. I know. Watch out. Oh, my God.

I think the dog's going to eat the thing. Just get a digital one. I'd even use Google Maps, for God's sake. That doesn't work, okay? When you're a trained professional, you know what to do. I know it's a long tradition in your family to use paper maps. I understand. Well, I don't.

Is it Bangladesh? I don't. No. Is Bangladesh known for their chocolate it Bangladesh? I don't know. Is Bangladesh known for their chocolate? Not that I'm aware of. Hmm. Oh, you gotcha. But I also wouldn't know.

Plopin, you got him. You got him. Let's see here. I was trying to pull up. It's pretty rare. Yeah. How about it could be Budapest? No. Somewhere in Denmark.

Denmark, I believe. Gebenhavn? I bet Denmark has pretty good chocolate. Right. Or Armenia. I'm getting Armenia, Bangladesh, Denmark, I believe. Gebenhavn? I bet Denmark has pretty good chocolate. Or Armenia. I'm getting Armenia, Bangladesh, Denmark, Hungary. Those are the options. Wow. I'm off my game.

That's broad. That's broad. Yeah. A large section of the globe. Okay. All right. Well, I'll take this next one. You got it.

So now that you've proven out boosting, maybe you can boost back in and let me know how off I was. Wooden 501 comes in with 3,000 sats. Good news, everyone. For my CPAP, as well as the Ninja Coffee Maker, I use the Zero Water Pitcher. Oh. They use a much better and more expensive filter

than your basic Brita type, and it does a fantastic job of removing everything from the water. I don't get mineral buildup anywhere I use the water from it. It's just $1 for a gallon of distilled water here, but I'm still saving money. Okay, so I was talking, I think maybe on the live stream last week about how I'd love to be able to produce my own distilled water,

and I think that's the Zero Water, a five-stage filter. Don't settle for ordinary. I'm going to look into that. I'm going to look into it. I will, too, because I could also use it for drinking water, right? filter don't settle for ordinary i'm gonna look into that i'm gonna look into it i will too because i could also use it for drinking water right drinking and breathing what a world i know that's the two things i need the most bit cryptic boosts in with 2092 sats this is the way postcode okay zip code boosts are smaller down here i'm really looking forward to a meetup near me someday maybe more cost effective

for me to come to one of your west coast us or canada ones uh you know here's the problem jeez okay here he goes again yeah you're right is we have to it costs a lot to bring all of us and uh then we have to house all these guys and usually one of them wants a car or you know we all try to like get a car you know it's expensive that is a factor um you know maybe in a year or so the ad market will be better we get somebody to sponsor a trip i don't know there's a theme here because uh 2092 looks to be a postal code somewhere on the outskirts of sydney uh or seaforth australia we're really hearing from the aussies although that's not an australian uh emoji well it could be i could be wrong no or it could be or it could be and i could be wrong all i know is that i'm feeling the love from australia if that's true we should be hearing more from them you know

and you know we probably do need a down under meetup oh my god wes if we do that we'll fly with we'll do a whole world tour we'll come on all all up. It'll be great. And we'll end in Moscow. Gene Bean comes in with 5,468 sats. The traders love the Vol. He says, what I should do is get the global entry. I had some other people chime in on that or get the Nexus card. And he says, if only Nextcloud Hub 9 was available in Nix. Guess I'll have to wait.

It will get packaged up, don't worry. It was barely packaged when we tried it, Gene Bean. There is a bit of a process because a lot of that stuff is packaged by the community around Nextcloud. And they just, you know, they're all on their own timelines. But I'm sure the Next cloud module and all that will get updated soon enough i hope because i really think that's the way to go i mean have you checked maybe

it is now i haven't checked wes i gotta be honest with you i have not wes i have not the nice part is you could probably depending on how much has changed uh you may be able to just build your own package and you know substitute it into the module peg dot boosts in with 13,678 cents superior ability breeds superior ambition ah well this first boost which is a Spaceballs boost is directed at Brent

but he's not here today hey Brent thank you for inviting us to the next cloud conference really enjoyed it. My only regret is that I couldn't stay for Sunday, too. Hope you've enjoyed the other beers as well. Huge respect to the NextCloud community and to NextCloud for using money to invest in the community. Really liked how easy everything was.

Oh, that's great. I bet. You know, it sounds like they had a real party on that bus. You did miss that, but it does sound like it was a good conference. Need a drink? Just grab one from the fridge. Lunchtime? Just grab one from the fridge. Lunchtime?

Just grab food from the table. No need for dishes or cutlery. Need a quiet space? We got you covered. Really looking forward to next year. Gosh, that sounds wonderful. We gotta make it there too. Part of the world tour.

Jeez. Okay. Okay, forgot to mention second boost here. Check the zip code from the first boost or add a five as last digit on this one.

It isn't my hometown, but at least Brent should be able to figure it out. And then also please invite Andreas Kling from Serenity OS. Yeah. And now Lady Bird. Yeah, I'm curious about Lady Bird, and I'd like to know if others are as well, because Lady Bird is a very ambitious project. It's a browser from the absolute ground up, not starting with a fork of Firefox or anything like that,

but actually building a third browser engine and interface today. What an ambitious project if you think about how large and important a browser is and really how locked up Chrome has things. So Andreas Kling will put on the list. That's, I mean, a very ambitious project. He says, although participating in multiple interviews seems like none have been published, could be a good fit for the show. I wonder why they haven't been published.

All right. You got the map. Oh, yeah, you do. I do. It looks like Berlin is an option here. Well, that would make sense. I mean, yeah, right. That would make a lot of sense.

Brent's there. He's just sleeping right now. He's just resting. Sun Knight comes in with a Spaceballs boost, 12,345 sats. Yes! That's amazing. I've got the same combination on my luggage. They're a new listener and a first-time booster.

Welcome aboard. Thank you for taking time to get that set up. We really appreciate that. In fact, we heard from several newbies and folks outside the States today. We had a really good showing in that regard. We also had 41 individual folks just stream sats as they listen. And thanks to them, we

stacked 66,155 sats just from the streamers. We really appreciate it. It's also really neat because we just see, it's like little pings like, oh, hey, someone's listening. Yeah, it's pretty it's like they're out there. You know, because we've never had anything like that, really. Just you, hey, someone's listening. Yeah, it's pretty. It's like they're out there. You know, because we've never had anything like that, really. Just you put the MP3 out there and then you're done.

And then it's either like comments or an email. There's nothing in real time. Or a little download counter stat. All together, we had 58 unique senders when you combine the boosters and the streamers, and we stacked 289,972 sats. Not a barn burner, but very, very appreciated. And what was the percentage that we gave to, it was like 5%?

5%, yeah. 5% went to open sats for that episode. Now, if you'd like to boost in, we're going to be putting a much larger percent, I think it's something closer to 30%, we'll be going to Jeff's Lightning Wallet this week to help him get up here to do the Meshtastic extravaganza. And you can just do that with something like Fountain FM or you can go to the Podcast Index if you've got Albie. Castomatic is fantastic on iOS.

We had some Podverse users showing up in there. Breeze also may be worth checking out if you're trying to get onboarded. We should mention Breeze more. If you don't want to switch podcast apps, Breeze is a really easy to use lightning wallet that lets you go grab a podcast and then participate in the boosting. You subscribe to the RSS feed. It lets you listen, but it's not really meant to replace your podcast app. You can if you just need like basic podcast features. It's got them. But yeah, you can also just use it as a boost platform, especially I think if you paired it with an exchange or other sat source that supported Lightning.

Like River or Bitcoin Well. If you're in Canada, the Bitcoin Well is a native Canadian company and they're on Lightning. So both River and Coinbase is as well. Coinbase, Strike. Strike. They're all on the Lightning Network and the Cash app. There's a lot of apps that are all around the world now like Strikes in over 100 countries. And then you just get that into the app and send in your boost. And it's a great way to support us.

And it lets you do it on your schedule at the amount that you determine. And we appreciate it very much because this is a value for value podcast. As the ad markets decided, they don't really care that much about Linux users and the tech niches. Things have gotten hard and they've moved their money over to YouTube. So our audience has stepped up to keep us going, and we really appreciate it. Thank you, everybody, who does support either through a membership or a boost. Now, unfortunately, the pick this week is actually something I think Brent found. Yeah, yeah, he found this one. But he couldn't make it. He wanted to, but he just couldn't.

But this is so neat that I wanted to talk about it anyways. It's called RustPad. This is so neat that I wanted to talk about it anyways. It's called RustPad. An efficient, minimal, collaborative code editor that is self-hosted and requires no database to run. Really slick. And the UI looks nice and tight and clean. It's all meant to just go in the web browser, and RustPad is just a tiny Docker image away.

It's really easy to get going. You can get more details at rustpad.io. Architecturally, its client-side code communicates via a web socket with a central server, they write, and it stores memory in what they say, get ready for this, Wes, data structures. It makes editing very fast, allows us to avoid provisioning a database, and makes testing much easier. The tradeoff is the documents are transient and lost between server restarts or after 24 hours of inactivity. Ah, so it's more like a, you know, in place, edit stuff as you're working on it, and then you go make sure you save it somewhere else. Yeah, which is kind of how I use this stuff. Or, hey, let's work on this together real quick.

We'll bang something out. Yeah, then it gets published or it goes to the next stage in the pipeline. Or I just go save it to my next config and rebuild. I actually think the idea that it's self-destructing in a way is beautiful. Because otherwise, these things just load up.

You just get so many files in there. So rustpad.io. Brentley found it, but I thought it was so good we wanted to run with it anyways. So shout out to our boy Brent who couldn't be here this week. I think that's everything for us, Wes. It is. We do plan to be live next week, so we encourage you to join us at Sunday, noon Pacific, 3 p.m. Eastern.

See you next week. Same bad time, same bad station. And remember, we're trying to get Jeff up here to do our Meshtastic episode, so boost in. Part of your boost will go towards Jeff. And also your thoughts on ways to get the conception out of all of these heads that Linux is from 2009. How do we change the mental image, the picture? Yeah, Linux is modern. You can have a modern desktop on Linux.

I'd say it's even more modern than the current commercial offerings. You don't have to use the command line, but you probably should. I get so worked up because it's just right there. They just did a little research. All right, well, it's not our problem. But maybe we can help. Let us know. You can go to linuxunplugged.com.

We've got a contact page there and links to what we talked about today. Thanks so much for joining us. See you next week. I could. Haiku.JupiterBroadcasting.com is still working. Excellent. That's amazing. So the OS that's designed not to be a server, turns out it makes a pretty good server. I don't know why it won't serve the Rocket logo at the top left,

but that's all right. Yeah. Can't do everything. The rest, surprisingly, how much of this, surprised how much of this works. I can't believe, I can't believe you got it working on a VPS. I was surprised. I was just browsing through the ports and I was like, Elixir's in here? What?