LINUX Unplugged - 664: Back to Root

Episode Date: April 27, 2026

After 26 years, we return to our roots and reflect on why LinuxFest Northwest is still a special event.Sponsored By:Jupiter Party Annual Membership: Put your support on automatic with our annual plan, and get one month of membership for free!Managed Nebula: Meet Managed Nebula from Defined Networking. A decentralized VPN built on the open-source Nebula platform that we love.Support LINUX UnpluggedLinks:💥 Gets Sats Quick and Easy with Strike📻 LINUX Unplugged on Fountain.FMLINUX Unplugged 666 BSD Challenge - Rules and RegretsLFNW2026 - Back to RootLinuxFest Northwest 2026 Playlist - YouTubeLinuxFest Northwest - YouTubeThe New Linux Kernel AI Bot Uncovering Bugs Is A Local LLM On Framework Desktop + AMD Ryzen AI MaxBitwarden CLI Compromised in Ongoing Checkmarx Supply ChainBear454's Fundraiser: Support for James Mason's FamilyPick: Updo — Updo is a command-line tool for monitoring website uptime and performance. It provides real-time metrics on website status, response time, SSL certificate expiry, and more, with alert notifications.Pick: Pake — 🤱🏻 Turn any webpage into a desktop app with one command.

Oh, friends and welcome back to your weekly Linux dot show. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. And my name is Brentley. Hello gentlemen, good to see you. And hello everyone here at Linux Fest Northwest, 20206! Woo! And the beautiful Bellynam, Washington,

in the very quarter of the Majestic Pacific Northwest at the Bellynapp Technical College. And it is Linux Fest Northwest 20206. And this is a very special year. We'll get more into that in just a little bit. We also are going to set the ground rules for the BSD Challenge, which actually kicks off next week. Uh-oh. The show don't slow down.

The show don't slow down. You brought your flash drives, right? We should get going, right? And then, of course, as always, we'll round it out with some booze, some great picks, and a lot more. We don't have a mumble room with us, but we do have producer Jeff. Hey, PJ. Hello. And we have Tech Dev with us.

Hello, Tech, Dad. Hey, there, guys. Nice to have you both. And we are going to do day one right now, and we'll be doing day two a little bit later in the show. Before we get to all of that, I want to say good morning to our friend. over at Defined Networking. Go to Defined.net slash unplugged and check out Managed Nebula.

It's a decentralized VPN built on the open source Nebula platform that we love. And when I'm building a network, I really do try to think long term now. I want something fast, I want it secure, and I want it resilient, and most importantly, I want it under my control. That's why I like Managed Nebula from Defined Networking.

It's a decentralized VPN built on the open source Nebula platform, which was originally engineered for Slack. What? Yeah, real scale. And get started to be managed. started, you can use it yourself. 100 host, totally free, no credit card required, just go to define.net slash unplugged. Go deeper, check it out. You can self-host the entire infrastructure yourself. You can build it totally private the way you actually need it. It's simple enough for

your home lab. It's strong enough for a global team. And it's built for people who want to own the entire stack. Try it free, define.net slash unplugged. Go support them and check it out at at define.net.net slash unplugged. We really do appreciate Define Network. We're supporting the Unplug Program. Thank you very much. All right, this is our Linux Fest Northwest episode, but we invite all kinds to join us here, and there are the BSD types as well. And so we want to get everybody queued up

on what the deal is, and what the rules are for the BSD challenge. Because it starts. It wouldn't be a challenge without some convoluted rules that we probably argue about now and later when we do the adjudicating. But we've got to start now to be, you know, try.

We want you to be able to follow a log. Yes, sir. Excuse me. Is one of the rules don't launch a BSD challenge? at a Linux event? No, apparently we did. So we're going to give you the rules. The challenge will actually start

next episode 665, and then it will conclude in episode 600666. Oh, so you have a little bit of time. You get to follow along. So it's not a Linux versus BSD challenge. It's really, can Linux users

become functional on BSD challenge? Fresh BSD install is the idea. Four levels you can climb. You get to pick your own BSD, free BSD, Open BSD, BSD, BSD, BSD, whatever it be. Hey, where's Dragonfly? Sure. Dragonfly BSD. Just didn't... Is there a BTSD version?

It didn't rhyme, and I came up with a little rhyme, and I liked it, so I went with it. So we have, like I say, four levels, like Wes over there, say, four levels. Level one, you can get up to seven points. If you can get it booted, a fresh BSD install somewhere, connect to the Internet. That's going to be easy, though, right? Install a package, you know, read a man page, you get points.

We'll put all of this up at Linuxunplug.com slash BSD. So you can go there and get all the rules. So there's level two, which is you become a daily driver. Can you just do normal desktop stuff for human beings on this thing? Can you get a graphical desktop running? A web browser, you know, don't run as root, which is awesome. And can you get audio working, even just test sounds? Oh, yeah.

Is that a thing? Oh, why are you making that face? It's a thing. Okay. I don't know if Brent knows how much is different. I mean, there's a lot that's the same or similar. Yeah. Or spelled differently, I hear.

But there's whole sort of the areas where, like, the concept is the same, but the implementation has a totally different history. Have you ever seen pictures of, like, a Russian knockoff of, like, a Russian computer in the 80s or a Russian car? Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like that. Oh. I mean, they might suggest that's what Linux is. Mm, nope.

Level three, if you can get to be a level three user, so you earn somewhere between 15 and 20 points. Again, all this will be on the website. You are now technically in the power user power ban. Well, that was easy. Well, maybe. Can you stop and start certain services? Can you edit the config so it does something right at start, at boot the way you want it?

Could you write a little shell script that runs on BSD? Can you edit a config? You know, those guys, can you do it? Have you effectively kicked your system D habit. Yeah, again, all the things that you can do to earn points will be on the website. There's no system D? And then level four, bonus round. If you can get over 21 points, you are truly, truly a BSD master.

And this includes things like getting certain services inside a jail. So not just going with a pre-built jail. I don't even know what you're saying anymore. Yeah, I know. And some of the BSDs don't have jail, so you're going to have to figure that one out. They're more prisons. Also, there's other things like, you know, we could maybe, if it doesn't have jails, we could say if you could still get a service running that you can access from the network,

then that would be allowable to, I think. Yeah, you know, maybe you're building it out in your home lab or providing mesh network services. There's a lot of stuff you can do. All right. So tech dev has a qualifying question. Go ahead. Yeah, do we get extra points for users who can get this going in California? Yeah, I feel like that's true, yeah.

I was going to ask the same thing. There should be maybe a handicap for California. I could, yeah, yeah. Or I, you know, list the number of sort of compliance or regulatory hurdles you overcame to get this working, and we'll give you points. Boost in to plead your case, and the board will consider it. So, you know, if you want, we'll give it special consideration. Lawbreaking points? All right, so, also, I think points will be issued.

Randomly. For the craziest place you've installed BSD. It has to get us going. So, you know, so the craziest place you've got BSD, let us know. And here's how we want you to submit. You can send a boost or you can go to Linuxunplug.com slash contact and tell us in there which BSD you used, your score that you got. If you have a weird install place, how you installed it, that kind of thing.

And if anything surprised you about it, let us know that too. When you say location, are we talking about what device or what physical location that you were able to install it on. Both. Both. You could plead your case. I have a question. Yeah. It's me now. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Can we get extra points with how many days we ran BSD? I feel like if you can run it for the whole week, that's definitely some points, right? Or every day you drive it maybe? What do you think of that?

Yeah, that's fair. Every day you drive it, what would be fair? A point for every day? Yeah, okay. We got a max of seven days. Because I'm not going to daily drive it. Oh, you say that now. You might love it. No. What if, I mean, when you start seeing Brent stacking points, maybe you'll change your money. That is true. I started early. I hate it when he's, what? No, it's.

The reason that there wasn't a vein already is because he was getting BSD installed. He's all, my God. You can't do break swaps when you're doing BSD swaps. Well, that's the whole reason. The gas line broke because it was running on BSD. Ah, yeah, yeah. You know, you got to pick the right few. All right.

So let us know how it goes. Give us your score. If you can get over 21 points, you're truly a beastie whisper. I'm going to honest with you, I think I'm going for the survival. level, which is like somewhere in the 8 to 14 points. So here's how it stacks out. If you get 0 to 7 points, then you have visited BSD as far as the show is concerned. You've done it.

You've visited BSD. If you get 8 to 14 points, you have survived BSD. I think that's probably where I'm headed. If you can get 15 to 20 points, you can hang with BSD. And if you get beyond 21 points, 21 or beyond, you become a Beastie Whisper as far as the show is concerned. I got a stretch personal stretch goal for you. Yeah. You know, just it would think about the hero's journey here.

if you were able to convert fake naz. Oh, my God. Back to BSD. And then import the pool, back to BSD, ZFS. There's no way I couldn't do that without you guys. Well, from an emotional support level, call in friend support. Oh, come on.

You could do it 50-50, call a friend, you know. You're going to make me put everything into open code? Oh, is that a rule? I mean, I don't think it runs on BSD, but you can figure it out. So there is a conceivable possibility where somebody could get up to like 30 points. And if anybody wants to like link us an audio file or something like that of their journey, if it's short and tight, we might play it on the show as well. Did you say call the launch?

You could call the launch, but it's probably better to send him to this show. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Okay, sorry. We should need a number. Send it to Brent's voicemail. We need a number for this show. Yeah, we do. So people can call it and give us live reports, like right in the heat of the moment.

This damn thing. That'd be so amazing. Please send those. Maybe the next challenge we could get that set up. That could be good. Email that to Alan Jude at jupiterbroadcasting.com. Yeah. All right.

So it might be day one of Linux Fest Northwest for us, but the reality is Linux Fest Northwest is a week-long, if not two-week-long process. PJ, you got here Wednesday evening. Yeah. And then made it over to the farm pretty quick and got right to work. It's about 9 a.m.

Jeff's been here for about 10 minutes. What you're doing, Jeff? Trying to get a clip off, but, you know, I forgot the headlamp. Brent got me, of course. You missed the big part is you're inside an engine right now, trying to get the clip off so we could remove an exhaust manifold. Why not? I'm here for Linux stuff, right? It's good to see you, buddy. Something always happens. We were down a couple of cars, and we've got an extra crew here.

We're like, we need to get another car working. We didn't get that car working. Well, and you know that, you know, Jeff gets kind of antsy if he's not helping you with something. He gets hands. He does he? He does. Well, that happens after. He's got to jack something up or he gets hansy.

He has for consent. Yeah, yeah. But you had how many cars to work on? Well, we had three cars to work on. We got two of three. Two out of three working. No, yours was already up and running. Thankfully.

Surprising. Somehow. Yeah, yeah. But you got here, which is great. You got in yesterday evening. Yes. And it was going fast. It takes a long time when you're on the other side of the continent, it turns out.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But I got here. And I feel good. Yeah. Yeah, it does feel. good. And you know, I've been thinking about like, what do we do for Linux Fest this year? Because I've been going for 26 years now. And how do you make that different? We've been covering it in the show for almost a decade.

How do you actually make that different? And I was thinking about this and I realized that it's kind of the theme of Linux Fest, which is back to root. Because it hits different this year for a few reasons. And I want to get into that. Some of them are close to home. Some of them I think are really about, where Linux is at now. But first, it's lunchtime for us. So we have to go grill up some hot dogs. And then when we come back after the break, it'll be day two of Linux Fest Northwest. But before we get there, I want to say thank you to our members for making this possible. Sincerely, members, we're like running on fumes these days, and it's the fumes that you are providing. So we really do appreciate it. And of course, Define networking is also like coming in clutch, as the kids would say. They're really clutching it up. Between the two, it's like we're making it.

it and we're able to do things like LinuxFest Northwest. If you'd like to become a member at LinuxUMPLug.com slash membership, if you want to support the whole network, that would be jupiter. Dot party, and we really do appreciate it. Sincerely, you can also boost the show and support each episode individually. The splits go to all of the host, editor Drew, the podcast developer, and a little bit goes to the index as well. And the nice thing about that, it's immediate, it's all done,

there's no banks, anything like that. It's just all over a peer-to-peer open-source network using an entire open-source Linux to Linux stack on our end. Thank you, everybody who supports the show through a membership or through a boost. We really do appreciate you. And here we are at Linux Fest Northwest Day 2. Hello, everybody, in HC108. Nice to have you here.

Yes. Show of, actually, round of applause. How many of you got a hot dog yesterday? Anybody get a hot dog? Yeah. All right, some hot dogs. Some hot dogs. Pizza and Indian food was also available.

The hot dogs were free. It went really well. Emma and my wife Hideo were absolute machines at the barbecue. I took a photo of the lineup. It lasted like for two hours, and it was huge. The lineups. Very efficient and courteous. Yeah, it was real crazy.

So shout out to System 76 for that. So we wanted to talk about a couple of things, just to kind of warm us up while we're all getting going here. And the first one is actually a local LLM story and the Linux kernel. And how Greg KH, the number two in command of the Linux kernel, has been running his own bot that he calls, I love this name, GKH Clanker T-1000. That's appropriate.

That's the name of his bot. The label is up front, and you've got to appreciate that. And he's running it locally on his land on an AMD Risen system that's in a framework desktop. And he's put a picture of it up on Mastodon. Like the rest of us, he's got a monitor propped up on some various sort of tech books. He probably hasn't read for a decade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know he's a real hacker.

Yeah, that's very true. It doesn't care. So I thought I'd kick this off. And if anybody has any input or thoughts, raise your hand. But we've been watching, I feel like, the Linux community and the open. source community really grapple with a lot of the moral and licensing issues around LLMs. At the same time, what we're also witnessing is folks like kernel developers and project leads and people that are shipping software are rapidly also using these tools.

And the adoption seems to be kind of like there's this bifurcation of some folks that are working on the lower level projects, like maybe desktop software and things like that, and they're taking very strong anti-AI stances. And then you have people on the kernels and on the larger projects and services that we all use, and they're integrating, they're already integrating and using AI. And it seems like we have, and I'm sure you maybe have some thoughts on this. We seem like we have this split here,

this kind of bifurcation inside our own community. You know, I think at least some of that. I mean, there's a lot of aspects to unpack, but I think some of it is, thankfully, we've seen that Greg and some of the colonel team these days are, I guess, a little more well-resourced, than your average open source FOS developer, right? And so I think some of this is whether you want to engage or not,

there is the rise of other folks using it, whether that's for good or just a lot of bug reports you don't know what to do with or whatever. So I think what we are seeing is that for the people in the privileged position on some of the kernel team who are interested and willing in doing a lot of their own work, they are in a good position to be able to adopt and play with and use some of this tooling maybe in the ways they want,

like running locally, like having sponsored hardware and that kind of stuff. So I think maybe it could be a leading edge, exploring when you do have time, when you do have support, how can you adopt some of this tools to help your workflow? Okay, so here's my question to you guys. If everybody wants to answer it, raise your hand. Otherwise, I'm going to make brand answer it. Oh, please help me.

Is this the first step to our community kind of coming to a consensus on AI? Will we kind of come to a general consensus of yes, it's good when you use it in these conditions for these things? Is this how we get there? Anyone have thoughts on that? Do you have thoughts on that? I think I have some thoughts.

I'll warm up until someone wants to. approach the mic. Yeah, I think it's reasonable that a lot of us are hesitating, but to have someone like the kernel team start to do this and in ways that are local, I think, feels really nice. And it shows that some of the teams that we look up to, I mean, literally it's on every laptop in this room, are doing, at least using the tools in a responsible way that we can also sign up for. Maybe that's it. He's kind of demonstrating a responsible way to use the tool. And like using, you know, some

computer manufacturers that do follow some of the ideals that we care about and that, hey, it's possible today. And even if you don't have as big of hardware as that, give it a couple of years. And the work that Linux has done to make AI available to run on these machines is going to allow us all to have AI in a way that kind of fits for us, despite all the challenges that we currently have with how it's made and being used. PJs here, what do you think, does Greg doing these kinds of things is a set a good example. And my second question would be, is he maybe limiting himself only using the free local stuff?

Oh. Oh, that's a good second question. The first one for me is, I think it sets an example of trust. And that's something I took away from Mad Dog's talk about, mad dogs talk about sovereignty is you have to trust something at some point. You have to trust someone at some point. And even if I don't trust all AI all the time,

if somebody like Greg K.H is using a tool, I trust Greg KH. knowing what tool he's using would be helpful. And the fact that he is going local, well, that's been my personal stance as well. I have used the online stuff. I think it's very powerful. But I specifically want to focus on running the software locally.

And I'm kind of glad that I'm seeing these guys. Yeah, right. Just turn on the vote, let's do the same thing. So what about, any of this would apply to you, too, if you're only using local stuff today, I mean, this is going to change in a couple of years, but today maybe it's not finding as many vulnerabilities as, you know, an opus or a mythos

or whatever it is that you'd pay. thousands of dollars for. Yeah, I mean, I think that's just going to get better and better. What we've noticed, every month, the local stuff is better and better. You know, they're finding better ways to compress everything and fit more into memory, and it's just insane.

I've got a very old graphics card, and it's running great, just trying to do more and more with it. And I think we're just going to keep seeing that get better and better. Eventually, eventually we're going to be on the same stage as the mainframes running these things. It only makes me think great in open source. We're kind of used to this,

or with home labs and self-hosting, right? Like, can we compete with the storage for Google photos back in? No, but kind of we can now because we have image, right? So it might take longer because there's a bigger hardware difference than we were facing before. That's my thinking is the commercial guys don't stand still, right? So the Googles and the apples. But they also, as part of that, tend to insidify. Yeah, that's true.

And I feel like we're getting kind of a Moore's law set up here with the AIS too, right? Like with the AI software and the AI models, we are accelerating so fast the way we did with CPUs. Yeah, yeah. So true. Yeah, I don't think it's going to be long before we're running. extremely capable models. And maybe the models will just get smaller and we'll just choose different models

for different tasks. Can't wait. I like it. I like it. Thank you, PJ. That's a, it's an interesting point. And I hope you're right.

And I think they are getting faster. Tell us your name and tell us what you think. Yeah. My name is Sam. So I, up until very recently taught at risk youth like IT skills and things like that to help them get into the IT field locally where I live.

And we had a very big conversation as a nonprofit about how to approach AI. I bet. how to like actually teach it effectively. And I don't know if this is 2PG 13 for the podcast, but the analogy that one of our staff members used was kind of like the sex ed talk of like, you're not going to stop people from using it.

You might as well teach them how to use it responsibly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So I was very big on local models about using them as a tool to like help yourself get an advantage, but not like putting your personal information out there for it to be put up later. Like I'm thinking of the GitHub co-pilot thing that happened.

And it's only a matter. I mean, you know, Gemini had a leak like that. Like there's plenty of examples of that happening. Sorry, I'm not too close. But, yeah, so I think I liked your take on that too, Chris. So the, like, how, like Greg Cage kind of like demonstrating how can you use this responsibly. And I also think, too, yeah, it might be because they have the resources to actually use these tools. And the scale, and also, you know, thinking about the Linux kernel being like millions of lines of code.

It's got to be a job. It's a lot different than smaller projects, not to, you know. Yeah, it's just scale. It's huge. Yeah, and that sometimes necessitates tools like this. Yeah. For sure. Well, I think we've seen kind of Greg has his unconventional attitude, perhaps, right?

Like, we've seen some of his great blog posts about, like, how the kernel treats security, which is very much not the way that a lot of other projects sort of have a security model. So it makes sense to me that if you have that sort of outcome-focused view, that, you know, they're not, they're not just like, whole, hogging AI slop into the kernel. At least I don't think anyone here thinks that, right? And so they're showing this version of like, well, we can keep our standards. The code is the code. And, you know, if the process is there and the people are signing off and they're responsible

for it. And Linus isn't mad at this commit and yelling at you, then, okay, it's probably going to work. Yeah. The fact that something's being audited by Linus Torvalds is enough for me to be like, you know, that's probably going to be okay. Yeah, there's layers there. Yeah. He's not a guy to be shy of when things are bad.

I wonder if we'll be discussing this next Linux Fest, right? Because it seems like this is a seasonal thing that we're working through, and this phase we're at right now as we're sort of digesting this stage of it. And, you know, with the development of local and folks like Greg, maybe by a year from now, we'll have sort of settled on kind of a common community agreement on this. Thank you. It's good. Did you want to join us?

Yeah, come on up. Tell us your name. Hi, everyone. My name is Aaron Wolf. Hello, Aaron. I just wanted to share a sort of meta perspective that I think is something I tend to try to keep in mind in all of this space. And that's the topic of induced demand.

So people know this from things like traffic engineering, You have the issue of if you just widen the road because there's congestion, then people say, oh, well, now I can drive more, and then there's just more congestion again. And of course, it's something in the general pattern of when you make things available, people will use it. So the question is, what are you making available? And I think of this is the significance of the local movement, because obviously if your goal is to you have a limited hardware and you're going to make use of it, then you're going to work

through how to make that work well. And the pattern we see with the big corporate AI's is mostly we just throw up. more hardware at it, but the issue is basically software eats Moore's law, right? So the point is if you get more powerful hardware than people are less careful to use it effectively. So you're just like, hey, I don't have to, I don't have to care about compressing this or making it efficient or something because I just got so much hardware. And the end result is you can be worse off than you were to start with. And so there's also this pattern of people just using it just to use it, which is what we're seeing with corporate AI. So, you know, like the other example would be,

we have LED light. or something, and then instead of being like, oh, hey, we have a world in which we use less electricity to do the same thing, which is just we need a certain amount of lighting. No, then you have like buildings in China that are covered in LED. Yeah, more lights. And just lights on everything because now you can do that. Yeah. And so there's, there's, it's extremely important that we have alternatives to that pattern because that pattern is a catastrophic in the long run, where we actually figure out how to work with reasonable systems so that that's an alternative. And the more people using that, the more, but I think framing it that way is extremely important because the point

isn't just, oh, I can do this for privacy or whatever else. The point is we actually need a sustainable system that doesn't have this runaway forever until you have 25 lanes of highway, you know, version of AI, which is, you know, at least people are realizing that the energy resource and water, it's like crazy and this is going to ruin everything. Have you used any local AI yet? I haven't. I've sort of known people who did it or I've heard things about it. And I haven't actually jumped into it already, but it's the place I'm most open to playing around a little more. I'm curious if you think that it's a solution to the problem that you mentioned. Well, I think that if people aren't even trying it, then, you know, I mean, that's where we need things.

It's sort of like if you're going to build, go with my metaphor, if you want to build walkable, bikeable, efficient, you know, places, you have to have people advocating for that. You have to design it so that that's a possibility. and there's a, I'll go with that metaphor again, but I think it really just applies for AI. The transit metaphor is if the buses get stuck in traffic, then the congestion goes to infinity because in general, the congestion will stop at the point that it's better to do the alternative.

So if you have light rail, it doesn't get stuck in traffic, then as soon as the congestion is worse than the light rail, people just switch to using light rail, which means the congestion will always get just bad enough that it's the same time as it takes. to take the train. But if the buses get stuck in traffic, then it goes to infinity

because nobody switches to the buses ever. And so we have to have a situation with AI where you have to have a thing where you go, oh, the costs or the something or the hassle or the awfulness of this runaway craziness, there's a reason for not just me being because I have ideals,

but for other people to go, yeah, but it's just more convenient to run it locally. I think even beyond locally, though, I think open weights come in here. Because part of what you're describing is, I think, partly an effect of the fact that we're racing at the frontier because it's a new untapped technology that we don't know what the bounds are at this point, I think is fair. So you have folks that are using more and more resources to try to find the edge of what you can even do with this technology.

But on the other side, right, you do have some more commodification of some of these providers who are willing to compete on, okay, well, we're all serving minimax two five. How do I make my business more profitable and how do I survive? A lot of that might need to be, how do I do inference for the cheapest possible way? So even if it's not at home, some of the open source ethos, I think, can infect this drive to more sustainability. Yeah. So I guess I'm just summarizing that it's the ideals and the people who care about the principles and the systems and the privacy or open source stuff. That can be a driver, but it has to reach that point where there's some reason why other people actually find it annoying or it should have found enough that they're like, oh, well, I'll go to this other thing because that's better and it has to exist for that. pattern to happen. So it's extremely important we do that because I don't see any other off-ramp

to this pattern we're on. Well, that has happened with Linux. I mean, we're seeing it. Exactly. Yeah. Windows 11. But the people who have, are helping make Linux easier than everything else and more powerful than everything else are also the people that we're talking about who are using some of the local AI to push the frontier of what is acceptable. I think that framing, that's an example of thinking about the incentives of the system. so that when we're not, when we're thinking about it, we're not just looking at the, you know, day-to-day, whatever about the tools, we're sort of thinking about

what are the structures that are getting people to go one way or another. So I'm just offering that metaphor. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so the other thing that kind of, oh, yeah, no tech, have you got, yeah, jump in. Come on up. Come on now. The more than the memory are you. Hey, guys. So how are you? And what are you thinking about? What are you thinking about?

So talking about AI, you had posed the question about, is this the point that we accept it? and I'd like to reframe the question to focus on a different aspect of what the AI is. I think that in population movements, so let's say you're coming to another country, you would end up going to the place that is familiar to you, right? Not necessarily the best that a local might think, because the best is relative. And in the Linux community, we're seeing an issue of attrition, where people with ideals that come from the 90s, which is a different context,

are then going to be working in against a context that we exist in now. In the 90s, if we're looking for software that is primarily meant to own a system, to control something, to look for capability that is your own or greater than something else, is a very different context than I want to use the latest and greatest tools, much like you were just saying. Linux works for the most part. The last time that I've had a Wi-Fi card not work. has been a very long time ago.

And this is coming from Zorn OS on a 2011 Macbook kind of thing. So we don't have to Ethernet in to get our Wi-Fi drivers anymore. Things work, which means that we're functional. We've met largely the goal of the context of the 90s. Now we have this technology. And if we don't bring in the technology, if we don't support it, then the people now, the people who are coming in with a different context, won't come. Yeah, I agree.

that. So is this the time that we start using AI? I'm not sure. Is it the time that we should to keep the community alive and avoid a complete separation of brain drain between the context of people coming in now versus the context of the old guard, so to speak? I think it needs to be. From that perspective, where the use of AI on the Linux desktop is necessary. And the question, I believe it was listener Sam, who brought up the question isn't how do we stop or enable people to use it, but how do we teach people to use it responsibly? Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious about perspectives on this.

Well, I think it reminds me a lot of what happened just in the first wave, right, where computing first was defined by like mainframes and big things you couldn't really access. Time sliced up and yeah. Right, right. And then you got sort of like micro computing and PCs and desktop. But there was this whole world of proprietary operating systems and proprietary products and still interesting and new, and, you know, the new frontier. And then we sort of figured out, like, oh, we can make this digital commons of software that,

like, okay, you can still have a proprietary photo editor, but not everyone needs that, right? The professionals need that. So I think that spirit is there and right, and we do need. It's just a question of bridging to today's world, which has gotten more complicated. But the essence, it feels like that's right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would say teaching people how to use the technology has been a challenge.

since technology has come around, right? Any kind of technology, the hammer, you've got to learn how to use that thing. Otherwise, you've got busted thumbs. How many users use reset password as their password? Yeah, exactly, right? Or ship down their computers by holding the power button. Anyways, I think AI is an interesting one because a lot of us are thinking about how do we use it in ways that match our ideals,

or how do we use it in ways that feels safe for our information, especially that we don't really know how it's scooping things up sometimes, right? If you have one conversation and you might have suggested, I don't know, which town you're in or it has your IP or something like that, well, is a conversation you're having in 10 months going to be linked to something like that? Well, we have the compute to do that now, right? So you have to use your imagination, sometimes to a point that's a bit depressing to realize what's possible

with the information you're putting out there. So when we try to suggest how to use this technology safely, I'm not sure we even know what the bounds are for doing that safely. And of course, everyone's risk is a little bit different. And it depends who you're trusting with your conversations, your information, and your coding. But it's not a straightforward question and answer. It seems like the risk tolerance is somewhat similar

or somewhat comparable to migrating from virtual machines to Docker containers. How we understand the problem is evolving. And eventually we'll get into a world where it's, LLMs first, the way that it's Docker first now. The other thing I liked about the question and approach you had there, too, is not only does it like, is it a change that matches some of our older styles, but I think it's important to not let the proprietary versions of this define what the technology is or how we think about it. Like, okay, we do need to recognize that maybe the most ways people use it as a chat GPT

in a browser tab right now or whatever it is or co-pilot in their 365 account. But they don't get to set the ground rules for what's possible with the, tech or the space. And I think the FOS and open source world has historically been really great at figuring out all of the other things that aren't profitable or aren't interested to the VC class or whatever it is. And so it's like we should definitely push back on the things that are wrong and that we don't like about how they're doing it. But I don't think that means we need to write off the entire technology. Well said. So here's the next part of this. This week, Bitwarden, the CLI version of Bitwarden was popped and people's vaults were exposed.

And it got me thinking as we start accelerating bug discovery, the open source software has always had this meme of more eyes, you know, on the code. Well, guess what? We're getting more eyes all of a sudden. More A-Eyes. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how we handle that. Anybody in here a Bitwarden user right now? Oof, that's a lot of hands.

That's a lot of you. Anybody of Bitwarden CLI user? Nobody. Interesting. Are you guys? No. I mean, I have before. I just don't use it regularly.

Yeah, I don't either. Interesting. Okay, well, here's the details. So it looks like the more recent version was compromised as part of the ongoing checkmarks-related supply chain campaign. Oh, yeah, that one. Yeah. I guess they got into some GitHub actions, part of the CICD pipeline. Yeah, the attacker injected a backdated commit into the checkmarks' ASTVS code extension repo.

It's part of the start of this. But of course, right, yeah, it's all of this stuff that you've chained with between extensions and then all the stuff that you've thought that was helpful in CI. Come on, it's one more action. What's going to be? Okay, okay. So I'd say about 70% of you were using Bitwarden-ish. Okay, so same folks.

Are any of you considering migrating away from Bitwarden? Anybody in here? All staying. Okay, ish. Okay, ish. Pretty much almost universally people are staying with BitWarden. Does that mean that the compromising of software has just become normalized? Well, I mean, maybe they'd feel different if they use Bitwarden CLI.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough. I probably would have. I probably would have been a little more upset. I was like, ooh, dodge that one. That's fine. Well, next time it won't get me. No, that'll be no problem. But the emotion I have around that is like,

it's just a matter of time for all software I'm using. It's sad. And there are some interesting discussions now, like, you know, considering different techniques, I think I was just reading an article this weekend around, you know, like maybe we just need more delays at various levels, right? Like, we do tend to catch these things. But if you go install the latest thing all of the time,

especially from, you know, NPM or random repository acts. Is this guy saying we shouldn't roll? I'm saying that. I'm saying some people are saying that. Are you saying we should go get REL? We should we go to REL? Because, geez. No, but I think it's that thing, right?

There's the version where you're like, well, you're so out-to-date. This is clearly irresponsible. But then now is there a new version of like, well, you haven't given the AIs enough time to audit that because this just came out. And who knows? Because of our software still-a-all-all-right. If AI means I can't roll anymore, then I am anti-A-I. That's sealed it for me right there. Like, it's over.

I got to be able to roll my distra. Okay. So we've got a group. We've got some new timers here. we have got some long timers in the Linux space. We did a little survey before we started recording. Anybody here that's been running Linux for less than a year? Want to raise their hands?

Anybody? Less than a year, six monthsish range? Oh, there's someone really shy over there. Excellent. Okay. What's with the blushing? Can I ask you why you wanted to try Linux? So, okay, that's a very common way, actually.

So that's very common. How's it going so far? The wife installed it for you. How's it going so far? Going good. Good. to hear that. All right. Good, good. Okay. So most of you then are long timers. That's probably why you're listening to our show. That makes sense. We're sorry. So like I was saying before we started

recording, 26 years of Linux Fest Northwest. Whoa. Crazy. And 26 years ago, even 20 years ago, a lot of us were coming to try to figure out how to get XYZ to work on Linux or how to get Linux to work on XYZ. Either way, just try to get something working. How do I get this to work was really, you could almost, what do I install? Where do I go? I still have windows on my laptop. Please help me. Right. Every conversation really, how do I get this to work or how do I make Linux work? That's not really what we talk about anymore at Linux Fest. It's not really we talk about with Linux or open source anymore. So I kind of wanted to take the temperature and see what people think it's about now, here we are at Linux Fest Northwest. 2026. So would anybody like to be

brave enough and break the ice and come up and tell us kind of what they think, when they think what Linux is about for them. It could be a personal thing. Would you like to do this? Yeah. DeVision thing is taking the first step. Good job, sir. Good job. Thank you. Come on down. Brave. So what is it about for you? What do you think? So for me, I guess it's mostly about, I've run a lot of services at home, mostly for the wife and I. And it's about making it do exactly what we want in a, you know, privacy forward way

without cloud servers and without a tech corporation dictating what's allowed versus, you what I can make it do sort of a situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, there's also, like, the maintainability of it, right? Like, now you have all this infrastructure, and so you'd have to maintain that, you know, over time and solve those problems. And for me, that means NixOS, but there are other options, you know. And even the wife's PC's run a NXOS now, which turned out to be a really great choice. Oh, good.

I didn't even believe that was going to be the case, but it is, actually. What are you struggling with? Are there things that are sort of persistent or you're unsure about or, you know? I guess lately, the biggest struggle is just getting completely off the cloud. Oh, sure. And things like that. That's been my journey lately. Can you describe why that's important for your household? It's really important for me the most. I don't think the wife would mind too much either way.

She just wants it to just work. But, you know, as you said, we're in a place now where, it does mostly just work. You know where I slowly think the significant other buy-off comes if they're not totally on the same page there is just, it is the inshittification over time. You know, as you start to upgrade the stuff and it gets frustrating,

and it sort of opens up a wind of opportunity, be like, hey, you know, if we hosted this ourselves, it only changes when we say it changes. And that is, that can be a window of opportunity right there. And no one can hike the bill on you. Well, you know, your utility. Yeah, right, there's that, the power bill. I will say I did actually get off.

I was running unstable or rolling on even the servers and stuff like that. And I didn't work so well for you? I had to roll it back. I wrote so much stuff now that something breaks on every update. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, so I waited for this last upgrade to basically to roll it back. At that point, that was it, huh? Yeah, so now everything is unstable except for my workstations, basically.

Derivation, would you like some hot dogs? because Emma is here with a surplus hot dogs. Official System 76. Anybody who comes up to the microphone gets free hot dogs. I would have a hot dog. Yeah, I mean, I'm talking a whole Costco thing of hot dogs. You're going to be eating for a week, sir. Eating for a week.

That way you have more time to work on your servers. Yeah. Thank you, Emma. She's supplying the hot dogs. Wait, Emma, come on over here. Oh, I think she's getting more hot dogs. Do you have to go? Okay.

We have a microphone with your name on it. Yeah, I got something I want to ask you real quick. Also, I like your jacket. It's pink. I would have never... I would have never expected you to... Hi, Emma. Oh, hi.

Hey, nice to see you. Thanks. So I just wanted to tell everybody what a badass you were yesterday. Oh, thanks. So it started really back before you even got on the airplane, right? Because you went to Costco ahead of time with a piece of paper and like all that I imagine. Went around and like did full inventory. Oh, a spec run?

Wow. Yes. And I even mathed it out. I said, I need 22. packs of hot dogs to make 400 hot dogs. Oh my goodness. So we ended up cooking 300. So there's like a hundred left over.

That's pretty good. Yeah. So yeah. And I think everybody ate. We had leftovers. So you got, so when you land here the next day, you get there in the morning like 7 a.m.

You're up and Adam. And as soon as Costco's open, you're in there, you're going right to every spot. You already know where to go. You know what you're getting. Yep. And you knew who to get the grill from.

Yes. So it was a pretty smooth operation. She's more connected here, and she lives states away than we have. Seriously. It's because I have boots on the ground here. I have Hadia, it was my partner in crime. And then, yeah, it was really funny, though, because there was so many buns in the car.

Yeah, my car was loaded with hot dog buns. Yeah, there was so many buns in the car that when she hit the brakes, they all flew forward and we were, like, getting attacked by hot dog buns. So we're, like, dodging them in the car. I'm like, well, I guess if we get in an accident, You're safe. Yeah. Like pillows.

Totally safe. Yeah. And then also shout out to Olympia Mike because he brought like a tent and some fire starter and some stuff we could poke at. Yeah. And so many Chromebooks. Yeah. And his Chromebooks used to hold down the tent.

The tent was blown away. So we deployed a bunch of Chromebooks. That's surprisingly heavy. That's all a good for now. Yeah. When you put like a dozen of those things in a crate, it's like 60 pounds. It's ridiculous. Yeah.

It was the only way to keep the canopy on the ground. So once again, you fed hundreds of people. Yes. Well done. You just like a challenge. I thought it was pretty quick. Yeah. Not two hours-ish, but yeah, that's pretty quick.

Yeah. So, round of applause. Did a fantastic job. Thank you, Emma. Stop by our booth. Yeah, go check out. They got that shiny New Thalia. Do you want to ask her the Linux question?

I mean, she's been... Okay, all right, Emma. You ready for this? This is what we were just asking folks. Okay. So, like, 26 years ago, when Linux Fest Northwest started, everybody was always talking, how do I make X, Y, Z work on Linux? Or how do I make Linux work on this?

It's like what everybody talked about. Now, no, pretty much always works, for the most part. Things just work. So what do you think? people really talk about now at these events what's the thing how do i make it work isn't really a topic anymore because it works um how do i don't how do i make it work i think when you's because like you know you've i mean you've heard all the support calls over the years etc like it used to be in an era where wifi or just what laptop do i buy or how do i even make a USB to get this installing or

yeah uh i don't know we don't it isn't like it's all custom i guess everyone wants to make something different. Yeah, their own thing. It's how can I make it more different than everybody else is what it feels like. Yeah, that sounds about right. How do I do my own specific thing that I'm trying to do and make it look like my own thing? Emma was telling me at the after party last night that System 76 had zero tickets for support recently because everything just works. It was very weird.

I was like, I was like something is broken. Yeah, is our support system? I like tested it out. I opened a ticket. It went through. It's working. I was like, oh, weird. But that's a sign of.

The adoption of Linux and how it works on the hardware. Yeah. Because years ago, this from 76, one of your challenges was like, how do we make the hardware as smooth as possible? But these days, that's as easy as it's ever been. Yeah. And we have a stellar QA and engineering team. So I trust their work because it's showing that, you know.

Yeah. Yay, Linux. Yay. Thank you, Emma. Thank you, Emma. Thank you for everything. All right. So before we wrap up, I want to just take a moment and talk about somebody who's not here this year.

Oh, this is going to be tough. A big part of Linux Fest for a long time has been James Mason, Bear 4 or 5, 4 in our community. And James is a really nice guy, really genuine guy, very hard worker, and really carried the torch for Linux Fest for many years, especially, you know, after COVID, and we weren't sure if it was coming back. I mean, I think James was quintessential in making that happen.

You might recall Bear also, he helped us get a dot matrix printer in our studio and then hooked us up. at the paper and all of that. Regular booster, giving us thoughtful things and pushback. Jupiter party members since like 2023. Really, really, really good guy. Also, don't tell anybody this, but slip me a Seuss and Open Seuss Intel on the DL from time to time. So I kind of had an inside line on what was going on.

That was great. And he had been battling cancer for years, and James did pass away recently. So he can't be here, obviously. And he leaves behind his wife and a couple of kids. And he's just such a good guy. And they're doing a fundraiser for his family. We'll put a link in the show notes. And there's a spot to donate, you know, over in the Expo Hall as well.

Yeah, and I just wanted to do a round of applause for James and for all his contributions, even though it could be. Over the years. Really appreciate him. Absolutely the best spirit of Linux Fest, right there. That's just it. And a great guy, local guy too. So it was really great. And, yeah, well, he'll be missed.

Yeah. Already is. Yeah, he already is. Here he already is. But this has been a great Linux Fest for us. Yesterday was a ton of fun. and I think he would have loved to see. I think he would have enjoyed it.

It was another classic one where we had the beautiful weather this year. You know, we always say it's like, yeah, sometimes a little crappy. Got to warn you, it could be a little crappy. We got a good one this year, so. There's something about a lawn full of Linux nerds, you know, having a good time. Yeah, seeing everybody out there eating, having a picnic, eating cookies and hot dogs. And getting that vitamin D we don't always get. Yeah, except it north-wise.

Very much so. Thank you, everybody, for coming. We're going to wrap it up there so we don't make it too long on recording, but we'll hang out for a little bit after this, but thank you very much. And we'll hope to see you back here next year, too. Thank you guys. Hey, a big shout out to the Linux Fest staff and our Proctor making all this work. Thank you, Linux Fest staff. Thank you. And now it is time for the boost.

Well, we're here back in the studio. We might sound a little different. Do you sound different? It sound clean. Yeah, it's nice. Oh, hello, boys. Back on the regular microphone. It was amazing to see everybody at Linux Fest. And, well, of course, it is always a special Fest. This was no exception. So a huge thank you to everybody who flew from all over, drove from all over, swam if you swam, but the entire community for coming out and hanging out together with us. And to the bigger community for helping us get those headsets that we use reliably at every single event. Those things are amazing. So thank you for that. We are super great. Indeed. Oh my gosh, has things really improved for us in terms of our mobile kit? Thank you.

again, everyone. It's so simple. Who contributed to that. Still paying dividends on that one. All right, Brentley, kick us off with our baller booster this week. Well, we are extra grateful this week because we have a baller booster. Spooky Satcom. Hey, Rich Lobster! Spooky Satcom came in with a mega space balls boost. One, two, three, four, five, six. We're going to have to go right to ludicrous speed. That's amazing. Thank you very much, Spooky. 203,456. That's exciting. That's great. It's insane. Ventoi has been my go-toe in a pinch. With all my dot files backed up to a self-hosted Ford Show instance.

All right. And my important files running on a self-hosted Next Cloud instance. My worries are pretty much low these days. I like this setup. This is a solid setup. I like this a lot. Shout out to Carl from System 76 for his work on the amendments to Colorado's age attestation bill. That's SB 26-051. Thank you for that dedication. Make it so. Indeed.

Thank you very much for that baller boost, spooky satcom. Nice setup you got there. Really appreciate that. Our next boost comes from Turd Ferguson with 22,22 sets. Turd Ferguson. Things out looking up for old MacDuck.

Sending some value your way for Linux Fest Northwest efforts and expenses, grill a hot dog form. Thank you, Turd. We did. We appreciate you. very much. Where did it go?

Brent. Don't go there. T.R. Selby boost in with 7,490 Satoshes. Coming in hot with the boost. There and back again, I'm betting on Brent going west-southwest for the Linux Fest, northwest. Pretty much. Just in case you need AAA to boost your battery, you can put this boost towards it. Otherwise, enjoy a cider.

Oh. Thank you. Thank you. That's nice. Yes. All right. We'll find, we'll find Brent a nice gluten-free cider. There's plenty to enjoy. Gene Bean comes in with 200, no, 200, 2,444 sets. Sorry, I'm stealing it, Brent. I don't understand what the heck is going on here. I'm not defending the training methods of AI, but comparing to user grabbing stuff from Stack Exchange or GitHub isn't really fair either.

Two wrongs don't make a right. A user violating the license is just as wrong as model training and not giving required attribution. Yeah. Yeah, and I think really, I was probably being too glib when I said, you know, somebody goes to stack exchange and they copy paste. What I was really, what I was really trying to say is like people just are learning iterative from each other. And that's how they naturally do it on the internet. And attribution still matters. Well, and just there's like, I don't know, I think part of it too, at least from my side, was we were trying to lay out the scope of different, just the landscape of things and issues to fight about, which can, you know, can start with what do you even assign to, like how should copyright work, right?

Like what layer of the discussion you start on kind of matters for this debate. So part of I was just hoping we could lay out all the different ways so that we could be clear about which things we are talking about. But yeah, totally agree. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Very, very complex topic with many emotions and many should-bees. It's a difficult one.

Ford Humor boosted in. Arof's Dix 11,111-11 Sadoches. I'm not sure what all podcast players support flipping between audio and video on the fly, but I'm enjoying catching portions of the stream on video in Fountain when I can tell you're doing a demo. This week, I switched to video to watch the picks, and it was super handy. Here's a big thank you to Drew for including a high-quality video cut as part of the production. Great work, guys. There you go.

Aw. Thank you very much. That's true. Yeah, I have to say we don't have the regular video version for this episode because when we're live, it's much harder. to do the video setup. Maybe one year we'll have a stretch goal. When we have a video crew. It'd be nice to actually be able to make clips of Linux Fest

and these events we go to and release them individually too. But that is a stretch goal for the future. And we do love Drew. Thank you very much, Forward Humor. Appreciate you. Appreciate everybody who boosted, including those of you who boosted below the 2000 set cutoff. I think I want to pull one up here.

Let's do it. There's a thousand set here from AmazingQ. Well, that's here. Good buddy. Long-time listener, circa 2018. first-time booster, though. You asked about pixie-booted servers. For three years now, I'm running my NAS disc list,

which sounds strange to NASSers that generally need disks. This is what I mean. There is no disk or partition used for an OS. It is based on Alpine Linux via NetBoat. The state is stored in a tar file, which is generated by the command LBU. This tar file is stored on a web server. During boot, it does fetching pixie-related boot configurations,

fetching kernel via TFTP, and booting that kernel. And this one's cut off, Wes. Do we have maybe extra? That's a slick setup. So he's basically the NASOS is loading over the network. Isn't that cool? So then, like, machine agnostic almost. We have talked about that for our studio machines once in a while.

That's true. Don't even run with local OSs, just have them always net boot. That's interesting idea. I'd love to know how it works and practice it anybody else out there is doing it. Also, shout out to everybody who streamed sats. It's 21 of you streamed stats. How about that? Right there on the money, 21.

That is cool. I know, right? A bunch of streaming nerds out there. And, of course, thank you to everybody. If you did not hear your boost read this episode, we cut off a little early when we were prepping for Linux Fest. So you may not have gotten in because we collected before Sunday morning. But don't worry, we'll catch it next episode. Thank you, everybody who did boost those.

Collectively, we stacked 196,000, 240 Satoshies. We really do appreciate it. And if you would like to participate, you can get Fountain FM. It makes it very easy to boost. And there's also a lot of great apps you can connect to what's called AlbiHub, which is a self-hosted way to do it. All of this is based on free and open source software. Thank you, everyone who supports us either with a membership or with a boost.

Well, we do have a few picks to get to before we get out of here. And Wes, you came across Updew. I feel like we've talked about Updue before. Is it what your hair does sometimes? It does do an Updue every now and then, especially in the more. mornings. But then I was looking through it, I don't recall actually talking about this. It's an uptime monitoring CLI tool, but it's not just for your local host uptime. No, and that's maybe where it sets itself apart, is we have looked at a lot of sort of cool

networking tuis, and this one's more directed outward. So think something like uptime Kuma, but less something you've set up as like a server demon and more something you might run, you know, more temporary. As a towee. Yeah. But it does have a Tomol configuration format, all kinds of The Easyways, Nix, NixOS, Windows, Docker, Linux, MacOS. So lots of ways to run it. It's a Go app, MIT licensed, and it's a to-y. And so you can kind of do real-time monitoring, multi-target, multi-region. It's got AWS support, Lambda, it's got metric exports for Prometheus,

so you can get Rafauna dashboards going, alerts. It's got custom web hooks, flexible HTTP supports, so, you know, custom headers, your posts, puts, deletes, et cetera. I like that. You can also monitor SSL expiration. verification, that kind of thing. So, yeah, if you need a quick ad hoc way to go do a little bit more with your network monitoring at the sort of application HTTP layer, check out up due.

Thank you, Wes. You know, when you put something out there, sometimes the Internet provides, and this week the Internet provided me with Bake, I think is actually how you say it. You turn any web page into a desktop app with one command, P-A-K-E, but it's a Hawaiian word. It's lightweight. It is 90% rust. And they have some pre-made ones ready to go. They say it will be nearly 20 times smaller than what an electron version would produce.

20 times at smaller. That's what got you right there, huh? Yeah, it's using Rustari, which is a must faster traditional jazz framework with lower memory usage. You use one command to get it going. No super complex configuration required. support shortcuts, immersive windows, drag and drop, style customizations, built-in ad removal. I don't know if I mentioned, but it's MIT license.

This is for Brent, right? Because he won't pin his tabs, but maybe he could make apps out of what we would consider pin tabs. Now you're talking. I like that. I wish he would just pin his damn tabs, but that would also work. I won't pin my tabs.

You have so many windows now. Instead of tabs, he would just have so many windows. And that'll force him to get a proper window manager that can handle it. I am an entropy enthusiast. So we will have links to those in the show notes over at Linuxunplug.com slash 660 fur, which is where you can get all of that. Again, thank you everybody who came to out to LinuxFest Northwest, made it a special 2026.

Shout out to the organizers and all the folks putting it on. Wes, before we get out of here, is there any, like, extra, like, nerdy detail. should know about the show that only people that have listened this long would really actually even care about? Yeah, well, since XML is really painful to read, we sort of hide these things in our RSS feed, but there are magic text files you can get. Yeah, that's right. Chapters, JSON chapters, yeah.

JSON? JSON. Oh, that's useful. Oh, super useful. What about, like, I don't know, maybe transcripts? Yeah, if you want to track exactly what Brent says in every episode, check out the VTT file. It's got labels there. It says Brent.

What? It's deadiraiarized. That's right. Wow. That's great right. Just for you. You should probably see a doctor about that. And if you look really, really closely, you'll find an MP4 file in there, too.

Although this week, it's not actually our faces. But it's still good. And every now, then you might also see what's called a live item entry because we are live on Sundays, which we call it Tuesday at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. See you next week. Same bad time. Same bad station. So why not make it?

A Linux Tuesday? on a Sunday. Join us at jbliv.tv or jbliv.m.com. and, of course, jupidabroadcasting.com slash calendar where you get it in your local time zone. We have bots, the early versions of bots. Before we call them bots. Before we call them algorithms,

we got them over there and they convert it to your local time. It's amazing. We got a lug. That's on mumble. You'll love it. It's great. Slow latency, opus. Details over there at jubitaboddbroadcasting.com

and on our website, linuxunplug.com. We also have a matrix chat room going all week long and during our live shows. You can also join that. Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of Your Unplugged program. And we'll see you right back here next Tuesday. As in Sunday.