LINUX Unplugged - Episode 118: Leaping Over Tumbleweed | LUP 118

Episode Date: November 11, 2015

New versions of openSUSE leap and Fedora have hit the web. The chairmen of openSUSE joins us to answer our hard questions & we follow up on Fedora 23.Plus the big upset with Debian this week, ransomware that targets Linux systems & way more than we can fit into this description!

Okay, here's my question. Before you go on a trip, do you have like a gadget regime that you follow? Like, you got to charge the laptop, got to charge the tablet, got to charge the phone, got to charge the watch now. Like, there's this whole series of crap. Got to sync over my audio books and my podcast and any files I want to watch. Like, there's this process you have to go through. Well, the prospect of being unplugged from the internet for more than, you know, an accidental 10 minutes, it's just foreign now, right? So you're like, well, like, you know, I like flew to Hawaii recently. It's like, okay, six hours, no internet. What do I do for this?

I can't read the blogs I read. I can't listen to podcasts unless I plan ahead. Yeah, it feels like an animal. Exactly. Yeah. Now, I know, Popey, I know you just made the trip, a road trip. Did you do any pre-road trip gadget planning? Did you, like, go through and charge all the devices? Did you sync up podcasts? What was any pre-road trip gadget uh planning did you like go through and charge

all the devices did you sync up podcasts what what was your pre-road trip uh regime regime i i did yeah i have to say martin trumped any preparation i did because when i got into his car there was a wireless access point in his car that's beautiful and there were like usb cables all over the place there were suites in every door pocket and drinks for every passenger. It's beautiful. Wow. So it doesn't matter what I say. He's done 10 times more than I did.

Now, okay, Wimpy, please. I'm a good host. Is this normally how your vehicle is set up? Or did you know there's going to be a bunch of nerds sitting in my vehicle? I better give them some connections. I made two changes to the usual regime. So there is always Wi-Fi in the car, so it is a mobile hotspot. But the change I did make is,

and there's always a ThinkPad power adapter in the car as well. Of course. And Popey did contact me beforehand and say, is your power adapter compatible with my laptop, which it was. It was kind of fun watching Popey SSH-ing into things as we were bombing up and down the motorway. That's just because he had to fix his app the whole time. Wimpy has one of those cars that when you get to a junction,

the engine cuts and then starts itself when you pull away. No! Every time it did that it has the power right so my my laptop's going every time he pulls away like this yes think pad i'm charging no i'm not yes i am no noise yeah that was fun so um so yeah the the only changes i made is i added extra usb charging points so the passengers in the back had i think three usb charging points. So the passengers in the back had, I think, three USB charging points. And us in the front, we had five and a laptop charger. And that was different from usual.

Such luxury. And then the sweets and drinks, that was new. But that was because we were doing a five-hour journey. And I knew they'd all get cranky if I didn't, you know, fill them up with chocolate. This is very true. This is very true. This is very true. The console of my vehicle from the road trip still has chocolate in there, steak bites, like it's an emergency go-to bag.

And one of the reasons I got the current vehicle was because it has AC plugs in it. Oh, nice. So actual power plugs is very great. I have one of those as well, yeah. There was a point during the road trip where Noah and I were working on the power in the rover, so we had the power off in the rover, and I literally pulled the truck up next to the rover, turned it on, and plugged in his soldering iron

to the truck with the AC plug. So it's very valuable. It's a mess, though, of cables. It just makes for a mess of cables when you're traveling around. You're US power sockets. They're not proper power, are they? They're like 25 volts or something. They're not real.

Not man-sized 240 volts at 13 amps, are they? No, they're definitely not. With plugs, you would definitely not want to step on them. No, and then do you now, do you over there, do you have plugs that are called cute things like pigtail and things like that? Because we have pigtails over here when we need like 30 amps and things like that. And so we have really cute names for all of our plugs. Do you guys have those? I think that's very much an American thing.

We do have names for the plug shapes, but not for the capacities. So we've got the cloverleaf connectors. Ooh, cloverleaf. And we've got the kettle plugs. Sounds fancy. Yeah. Oh, man. And the figure of eight. Yeah. We. Sounds fancy. Yeah. Oh, man. And a figure of eight.

Yeah. We've got those. Yeah. But they don't carry a different capacity. They're all 13-amp plugs. Yeah, they're all man-size. 13 amps? That's not...

I need 30, please. I need 30. I got stuff to plug in here. I got... Oh, well, you can get bigger ones. The standard is 13 amps and 240 volts. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that 240 volts, that's no joke.

That's legit. No, it's not. That's legit. This is Linux Unplugged, episode weekly Linux talk show that's hoping to avoid that hands-on TSA experience. My name is Chris. And my name is Wes. Don't touch me, Chris. Don't touch me. I know.

There are rules. Yeah, there are rules here. You know, the only reason I say that really is because I'm about to jump on a plane. I'm about to fly over and see System76 in Denver. Oh, boy, is that exciting. Colorado. I know. We don't know exactly yet about meetup details, but I'm hoping we have a meetup.

But the thing is, I have weird things. I have stabilizer poles in my bag. I have cameras. I have wires. So we should expect a lot out of this trip. That's what you're telling us. No, I'm telling you, I think I'm going to get groped by the security. Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. Alright, well, coming up on this

week's episode of the Linux Action Show, Opususa 42.1 is out. We're going to talk about the new Leap release and, of course, Wes and I have had a chance to use Ubuntu Mate 15.10 in the real world. We'll give you our follow-ups on that. We're going to wrap up on Fedora 23 this week. There's been some interesting

things developing there. And then later on in the show, we'll talk about new ransomware that targets Linux systems. It's kind of ridiculous, but there's already a fix out in the works. We've got details on that. And then there's some drama in the Debian world. Again? I know. And it's not about SystemD this time.

Okay, okay. And actually, this one is maybe it matters more to end users than even the systemd debate did. We'll talk about that coming up on this week's episode of Linux Unplugged West. We have so much to cover. We have so much to get into. So why don't we immediately, without any further delay, bring in our virtual lug. Time-appropriate greetings, Mumble Room. Hey.

Hello. Hey. Hello. Hey. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hey. Hello. Hey. Hello. All right. Well, I am really pumped about episode 118 today because we have a ton of topics to cover, a lot of distro things to discuss.

So let's kick off the distro things with one Richard Brown, OpenSUSA's, or I believe, SUSA's chairman. I forget. It was a very, very cool title. The chairman of OpenSUSUSE, Mr. Richard Brown. Richard, tell us more. R. Brown, welcome to the show. Thank you very much.

Yeah, and it's Chairman of OpenSUSE, but SUSE paid for me, my salary. Okay, okay. I work for both. So technically, the SUSE company pays your paycheck, but you're the Chairman of the OpenSUSE distribution, which honestly is way cooler than CEO or any other title. Oh, yeah, definitely. Chairman is awesome. So, Richard, welcome to Linux Unplugged. And today is a pretty cool week because OpenSUSE 42.1 Leap shipped.

And it's like Linux, but not like we've seen it before. Are you guys totally pumped over there at OpenSUSE right now? Yeah, and the feedback's been amazing. I mean, we're trying something really different here. For people who don't know, we've got effectively the code base from SUSE Linux Enterprise, so the enterprise distribution. And we started with that, but then rather than just copying it and shipping that as our own, we've built a whole new platform on top of it. And this is something that we've almost, as Linux users, have fantasized about.

And it almost seems impossible. And it is this idea that you take the core Linux OS and you make it stable, you make it secure, you make it predictable. You take the core Linux OS and you make it stable, you make it secure, you make it predictable. But then as an end user, you get all of the trappings of nice updated end user applications and things like that. You can get the latest things that are important to you still. Yeah, you know, the small things. Without your kernel or X breaking. Yeah, things like Thunderbird, Chrome, your Steam packages, things like that. And now that is one thing to say is actually going to happen.

that. And now, that is one thing to say is actually going to happen. But what is the long-term plan to actually deliver on that? How does OpenSUSE Elite plan to actually make that happen? Well, part of it's all thanks to the tooling we already have, so things like the build service, which make it really easy for us to do this kind of heavy, tricky engineering. So the trick going forward is we're going to do LEAP, minor releases aligned with the SLEE service pack. So as they move forward, we'll move forward. And for each of those minor releases,

which are expected about once per year, I expect to see most of that user space stuff kind of jumping up, catching up with what's common standard there with SUSE taking care of the base system underneath as part of the enterprise stuff. Now, Richard, what happens when something comes along that says this is the new standard, this is something we want to do, and it requires XYZ be updated? Is there a process in which a maintainer can step up and say, I'm going to make sure that these libraries and this end user package are the latest version,

even though it doesn't quite track what SLESS is doing? Exactly. I mean, that's happened a few times already with this version of Leap. We actually did it with the kernel as well. So we had a real big bit of community feedback that, you know, they wanted the 4.1 kernel in there, something newer than what Flea has. So yeah, we've done that already.

I expect to probably hit a few more things again with 42.2, but also we're seeing on the enterprise side, because we're doing this, they're a little bit braver about some of the stuff they're talking about for Service Pack 2. That's awesome. They might be moving a little bit braver about some of the stuff they're talking about for Service Pack 2. That's awesome. They might be moving a little bit faster. We might have a little bit less of that kind of thing to hit than we were expecting when we started this a year ago.

So far I've mostly talked about this in the context of the desktop and why it seems compelling to me as a desktop distribution. But is there also a bit of a server answer here? Could this be maybe somebody who wants to have some fairly modern, up-to-date front-end packages of things like maybe SyncThing, Plex, MB, stuff like that, but also then also have something that doesn't have a ton of kernel changes and whatnot? Do you see a role for OpenSUSE Leap in the server position, or is that clearly still defined for SLES? What's your thoughts there? Definitely, totally, yes. I mean, as part of this release, we actually tied it up,

all of the server patterns and installation options we have in Leap, so that they're a lot more straightforward and easy to get done. And, yeah, I mean, there's a big server market out there that doesn't really fit Leap that doesn't really fit sleep. So, you know, there's not really too much concern from the SUSE business side. You know, we're going a different direction. We're going to appeal to a different audience. So, yeah, we're looking forward to seeing how that works out.

You know, one of the things that I think I've noticed that Ubuntu has had to figure out with their LTS releases, has had to figure out with their LTS releases, and I think they've done it pretty gracefully, is the updates to the kernel to do hardware enablements, as they call them. And one of the things that I hear consistently, Richard, is, and it happens about right now, and Wes knows what I'm about to say, is Ubuntu 14.04 is starting to feel real old. And he and I know of a couple of examples of people who wanted to go with the LTS release but bailed because it's just simply, it's too out of date now. And it seems like the LTS updates to Ubuntu and the SLES service packs are on about the same schedule. So how can Leap avoid this problem where some of the base system starts to become, honestly, a little stale?

And so things like Steam games start to suffer or new hardware support or, honestly, even things like installing the latest versions of Java and Flash to play Minecraft and do Hangouts become complicated. What's Leap's solution to that? Well, the SLE service pack thing is moving up to about an annual release schedule now, and hardware enablement is a big part of what SUSE do in those service packs. So we'll be benefiting from that, plus probably doing some of our own as well for the specific hardware that our community is interested in. So, yeah, that should kind of be the bread and butter that every year when we do a minor release of leap hardware enablement should be there every time keeping this whole thing fresh and would that be when i get say a new version of gtk or would

that come at a different point in update in the update cycle we're really expecting kind of the big things like a new known release a new kde release to be sort of synchronized all around those annual service packs we're going to be doing. So essentially I get one new version of GTK a year, one new version of Qt a year and those kinds of things. Yeah, the OpenSUSE packaging policy isn't necessarily that strict. So if there's like a nice compelling reason for us to push that out of the maintenance update during the life cycle of 42.1 we can we might but there has to be a reason because the last thing we want to do is break things now how to now down the road in all

intents and purposes is there going to be a 42.2 and a 42.3 or is this essentially a continuously updating installation that I'm going to have? That will never – it's always just going to – like 42.1 is always going to be the latest, and whenever you install, it's just going to continually be updated. How does this work, and what is my upgrade path long-term? If you want a nice rolling release, that's what we have Tumbleweed for, so that's your single installation that you can upgrade.

So 42.1 will have 42.2 next year. The upgrade path will be as simple as a zip-a-dup, so equivalent of an app-to-distribution upgrade. And so we're expecting that to be nice and simple. You can also do it offline if you feel like doing it the old-fashioned way over a USB stick or a DVD. That's good. Yeah, and so we're expecting

these to do one of these service packs every year. Then when SLE do SLE 13 a few years from now, that's when we're expecting 43.0, which will be sort of a big, huge change everything probably based on

wherever Tumbleweed is around about that time. Okay. And that will be in line with what Suze is doing with the big enterprise release center as well. This sounds like it's – the way you describe it, it's kind of a unique little space in the Linux ecosystem. Yeah, it does seem different. And I look at this and I ask – so I guess, Richard, my next question would be if I'm Frank from OwnCloud or if I'm somebody who's making, say, a Telegram server replacement or maybe Plex or whatever, if I'm creating software for the Linux server or the Linux desktop, how do I, as a software vendor, say we are compatible with XYZ version of OpenSUSE or Leap? How can I clearly differentiate for the end user so that way they know it's going to work on Leap or not?

Because the reason I ask you is because it seems like one, two years down the road, there could be some installations of Leap where something does work and some installations of Leap where things don't work. So what's kind of the thoughts there to make it clear to end users if you know something is going to work on your version of open SUSE say nine months from now the cleanest simplest way would be I'd recommend that that all of these vendors like we're already in discussion for example with own cloud about doing this of either put your stuff in our distribution or use the build service where building it for all for whatever variation someone might have is just a button click away. Nice. Because we're not expecting any major heavy architectural stuff. So if you want to be extra sure that the thing is built for every variation of Leap, that should just be nice and simply done in the OBS.

Wouldn't that be great if we could get just everybody using that? That would be really something. So if you don't mind, Richard, I would love to shift gears for just a second and talk about, well, for a few seconds, and talk about Tumbleweed. So what is, if I'm looking at really today, and really, and let's talk about 2016

too, I'm looking at my options as an open SUSE user, and I'm looking at Tumbleweed, it seems like, and I'm looking at Leap. I got two different things in front of me. I feel like maybe because I'm an Arch user today, if I was going to make a switch to SUSE, maybe I want to go Tumbleweed. And I actually kind of want to ask you straight up, why would I not go Tumbleweed and why would I go Leap? Like what's the downside to going Tumbleweed? If there's two different versions of SUSusa what is what is leap giving me

that say tumbleweed isn't it leaps giving you a slower pace of change it's really down to like what linux is comfortable for you you know the thing we find with tumbleweed is you know we've tackled those technical problems it's stable it works you can rely on it but it's changing at whatever the pace upstreams are and we have feedback from our users saying like ah i didn't want to relearn my entire workflow this week. So, you know, Tumbleweed, if you're one of these guys who likes whatever upstreams are doing,

Tumbleweed is fine, great, use it. But at the same time, in certain use cases, or just depending on how you are, you want something that changes less often, that's what Leap's going for as a kind of you know the two complementary approaches really yeah so if and and also maybe if i was a if i was the administrator of a couple of zeus enterprise linux servers or even more than a couple yeah

leap would probably be a pretty good desktop for me seems like yes or server install yeah i mean i'm actually running tumbleweed and leap on on my servers and kind of comparing at the moment. So I think it was like three weeks ago we did a review of OpenSUSE Leap 42.1 release candidate in the Linux Action Show. And now I want to put a call out to the Linux Unplugged audience and their virtual lug. If you would like to talk more about OpenSUSE Leap, let us know in the comments at linuxactionshow.reddit.com for episode 118 of Linux Unplugged Show. Would you like to have a dedicated segment where we discuss Leap? I would. I would like to see how you guys

are actually experiencing using it. Setting things up, like Telegram, and HeruPad, and Steam, and Chrome, and how is all of this going? The everyday livability element. Yes, and what is, exactly, what has been your experience? So we've got a couple of volunteers from the Mumble Room today.

Wes, you're going to give it a go. Sure thing. And let's next week – Richard, would you mind joining us again next week at this time? And we'll kind of do a roundtable discussion of actually using Leap for the last couple of weeks. Exactly. Sounds awesome. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I got all excited there. Break and stuff, guys.

Break and stuff. All right. So I would love to hear it. And Kitson Kitty, you had something you wanted to chime in with. Yeah, I was actually going to ask the question about the inclusion of GNOME 3.16 in Leap versus 3.18. Why go with 3.16 if 3.18 is going to be supported for a longer time? 3.18 came at a weird time during our development process, so we were like, okay, we could accept

it, but there's an element of risk of maybe we're not going to get all the patches in time. 3.18.2 isn't quite out yet. So we wanted to make sure that what we shipped as Leap we're happy maintaining for a year. Is there a possibility

that 3.18 might come as a service pack update? I can be pretty sure that I expect 3.20 next year as part of the service pack update. Yeah. So 3.16 is what ships today, which, you know, as far as that goes, that's also what 15.10 is shipping with. Right. So not horrible as far as wider adoption. But it does feel like a year is a long time to wait.

But then again, I guess if you're going to wait, 320 is the one to wait for. And at least it's kind of a consistent – all right. Once a year, you get the new upgrades. I can wrap my head around that. I can plan around that. Yeah. I like that a lot actually. So – and then last but not least, Richard, I know that there was a big event that just wrapped up for SUSE.

Do you want to mention anything about that? Oh, yeah, SUSECON. So yeah, the big company party in Amsterdam. Sorry, conference, not a party. Although there was a lot of fun. It looked like a party to me. It's Amsterdam. I mean what kind of conference has beer served during the last keynote?

I mean that what kind of conference has beer served during the last keynote? I mean, that was just awesome. If you watch the YouTube videos, they had beer as a service and they had, yeah. That's amazing. You know, just an aside really quick. Yeah, I got to say the OpenSUSA booth when we had LinuxCon here in Seattle was giving out free, not only giving out free beers, but beer koozies. OpenSUSA beer koozies. Ooh. Respect.

So how did Sousa con go? Or how was the event overall? The biggest we've seen by far, way more customers than we're used to having, lots more partners, lots of really interesting. It's mainly an enterprise conference. I mean, the fact that open Sousa was there and we were launching Leap was a little bit weirder than usual. So, yeah, it was nice. But it was really nice actually seeing that collaboration between the two

and like having a whole bunch of people come up to me and say like, hey, we're running Leap already. We're running Tumbleweed. We want to know what you're doing with OpenQA. So it's like, it's, you quite often see in other communities, like there's a big bridge or big divide between the enterprise guys and the community guys and it was really nice to see that kind of just

completely disappearing last week and of course major props to you guys again you've done another music video this year and it has been massively successful online this is kind of ridiculous but should I play a little bit of it of ridiculous, but should I play a little bit of it?

As we wrap up, should I play a little bit of this? Let's see it. All right. So we'll play a little bit of this. This is uncontrolled A bad book, make my sister fold This book and the colonel My colonel, my uptown

Cease this freaking spazzing My manager's mad, it ain't pretty I need caffeine A big screen Gotta fix the server Energy thing It's too hot Hot patch Couture voice

And core are hard man It's too hot Hot patch Make a sysadmin Retirement It's too hot Hot patch Said holy cow

Am I in the jam It's too hot Hot patch Telling you now It ain't funny Server's down Live patching Hallelujah Live patch band. Live patching, hallelujah. Live patching, hallelujah.

Live patching, hallelujah. Cause Uptime Funk gon' give it to ya. Cause Uptime Funk gon' give it to ya. Cause Uptime Funk gon' give it to ya. Saturday night and the service all right. Don't reboot, it just patch. Ow! Come on, tell me that's great, right?

Yeah, that was a huge hit, so you guys can check that out online. So it sounds like it was a good event, and good on you guys, too, for spending the time and the effort on that music video. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, and the money, too. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. So, all right. Well, Richard, we look forward to talking to you next week. Be sure to join us and LinuxActionShow.reddit.com if you want to give us

your thoughts on Leap and then really if you want to double down on that and you're serious, if you want to advocate this, Gabriel3, I'm talking to you. If you really want to talk about this,

come join our Mumble Room. We have a virtual lug. It's open to you. You can participate. Think of it like this. Back in the day before the internet was a thing,

if you were a Linux user and you wanted to advocate one distro to another, you would go to what these things were called Linux user groups. You had to go outside. It was horrible. You had to go to this place that was probably like a school or something.

Library. Who knows? Yes. And then you had to go in there and you had to convince other people. Well, that's what our mumble room is. If you go to jblive.tv, you do bang mumble, and you'll be able to get our address. And, yeah, there is an outside, Kits and Kitty. There is an outside.

And I'd love you to come in here tomorrow. Or, I'm sorry, tomorrow. Yeah, come in here tomorrow. No, that's next week. Come in here next week and tell us about your thoughts on OpenSUSE Leap. I'd love to really hear how it's going for you. All right, so before we go any further, and we have so much show to get into, I want to talk about DigitalOcean.

DigitalOcean is a simple cloud hosting provider dedicated to offering the most intuitive and easy way for you to spin up your own Linux reg or free BSD. And here's the thing. I need you to use the promo code DEOUNPLUG. I need it. I need it like I need a chicken pot pie. Have you ever had the KFC chicken pot pies?

Oh, no, I have not. Are you serious? I know what I'm doing after the show. Well, so when you leave the studio here, there is a KFC on the corner there. And here's what I want you to do. This is a setup. Now, here's what they do is they put an amazing pie crust on the top, and then it's a tin bottom, right? And so it's not too much carbs, and it's tons of good chicken.

But you get that crispy. Yes. You can still get a little crisp in there and a lot of good protein, and there's some good veggies in there, too. And what I just described also applies to DigitalOcean. It's exactly the same. It is the same thing. It's a high-protein content. Use the promo code D-O-Unplugged.

D-O-Unplugged. One word, lowercase, because everything's lowercase. Lick a boost, and you'll get a $10 credit over at DigitalOcean.com. You can get started in less than 55 seconds because their system is cray. And pricing plans start at only $5 a month. $5 a month. Which is 512 megabytes of RAM, a 20 gigabyte SSD, one CPU, and a terabyte. A freaking terabyte of transfer.

And DigitalOcean has data from locations in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam, London, Germany, and a brand new one. Because F the NSA in Toronto, I mean, they didn't Singapore, Amsterdam, London, Germany, and a brand new one. Because F the NSA in Toronto, I mean, they didn't say that. I am saying that. They're not saying that. It's not a DigitalOcean thing. F the NSA.

And they, yeah, you know what? You know what? That's right. F the NSA. And the value of this is negative. So they got new data centers in Toronto. You go over there, use the promo code DL1, plug one word, lowercase, you get a $10 credit. You can try it.

All of their rigs. They run Linux. They're on top of KVM. They have SSD drives everywhere. Everywhere. It's nice. They got 40 gigabit E connections in their newest data centers. It's so sweet.

And their interface is like the bestestest of all of the interfaces. It is really good. When I started in virtualization, Wes, okay. Now, you probably used VMware or something, right, in the past? I have, yes. Have you ever used VMware server where it was in the web page? No, I have not. Oh, God.

This is such a travesty of humanity. It is the worst. Okay. All right. It is. Now, boxes, man, I'm tight with boxes. Yes, boxes is great. Yeah, I can get down with that.

If you want to do some local emulation like an animal, man, boxes is awesome. But when you want something up in the cloud, I mean, honestly, honestly, DigitalOcean's UI is better than boxes. Oh, yeah. Hashtag just saying. It's one of the best UIs, I don't know, ever. Should I say it? Ever? I think you should because I'll tell you why. You get HTML5 console, right?

You get all this stuff. You can choose between your data centers. You can transfer. You get the snapshots. You get the one console, right? You get all this stuff. You can choose between your data centers. You can transfer. You get the snapshots. You get the one-click deployments. You can use Docker like a pro, even though you don't know what I'm talking about. You don't have to. No, you don't.

There's tutorials for that. Man, they have some tutorials. Use the promo code DL1plug. Check out the interface. Check out that API, which makes a bunch of open source apps possible. And by the way, speaking of their community, because I didn't speak of their community, but I am now, it is tight. They have some really good tutorials. You know, because they're willing to pay for them.

It turns out that if something's valuable, you should pay for it. I know, right? Anyways, talk to Linus. So anyways, they pay for the tutorials, right? And this is really something. They've hired multiple editors. And you know, a little background. You ready for this?

I don't know. A little exclusive info just between you and me. Don't tell the audience. Don't tell anyone. I don't know. A little exclusive info just between you and me. Don't tell the audience. Don't tell anyone. I don't think D.O. wants this getting out. So this was the first podcast. They started talking about their tutorials online and how you could write and make some money. Yep.

This was right here. Right here. And they got such a crazy response that they ended up having to hire two extra people after running the spot on the show. That's awesome. Isn't that cool? Because they have- Good work, guys.

Yeah, I know. The JB community freaking rocks. And they're writing really good tutorials like this one right here, how to run NGINX on a Docker container using Ubuntu 14.04. Right there. Use the promo code D1plugged. You support the show. You get a $10 credit.

Boom. It's magic. DigitalOcean.com. Big thanks to DigitalOcean for sponsoring Linux Unplug Boom. It's magic. DigitalOcean.com. Big thanks to DigitalOcean for sponsoring. Linux Unplugged. It's awesome. Alright, Wes. So you and I had a chance to try out Ubuntu Mate

15.10. Now you ran it for yourself? Yes, I did. Okay, I installed it for my girlfriend, Hadiyah, for her first Linux computer. And I got her a new machine because her computer, she had an HP and it totally, this is actually kind of a funny story. I should probably just a real quick.

Do tell, Chris. Her HP had like these metal trimmings on it. And whenever you touched the metal, the computer would shut off. Oh my God. Wow. That's quite the feature. So I was like, and she uses this computer to run her business, right? And so like, I mean, I'm talking like booking because she runs her own practice.

Booking, you know, all the accounting stuff, messaging, and of course any kind of like notes and anything like that she has to take on her patients goes into this computer. And this computer, when you touch the metal, turns off. I'm like, go to Best Buy, go get the Yoga 3 because you had to get a computer that day, right? So she could, you know, have a business. Exactly. So day one, I get the computer. We don had to get a computer that day right and you know have a business exactly so day one i get the computer we don't even put into windows i install integros and i'm like boom look at this this is the gnome 3 desktop it's awesome it's wonderful except for the broadcom wireless didn't work oh and i could have got it working because we got it working for angie's machine i mean i could have done it. But I let it sit for a while and I went on the road trip and all this kind of stuff. And then I got back and I realized there were 384 updates.

Like I just – this wasn't something I wanted to manage. And so – And you didn't want to be at fault. It was literally – You didn't manage it. Yes. And it didn't work. Yeah.

And it was literally like two days after we talked about the episode where it was like, what's new, mate? You know, where Wimpy basically just sold the shit out of me on using Ubuntu Mate. Good job, Wimpy. And so I was like, all right. I was like, all right, I'm installing this right now. This is going to solve my problems. And I deployed Ubuntu Mate on her. Well, you deployed it.

Yeah, I did. Well, that's how I talk. Yeah, because I'm enterprise. Yeah. And so I deployed Ubuntu Mate following my standard deployment procedure that I follow. Naturally, naturally. Which is the installation but with all of the stuff on the bottom of the screen. So I got the menu on the bottom of the screen.

I got all the apps on the bottom of the screen. Right. I forget which config that was called. I believe that's Redmond. Yes, I think it was Redmond. Yeah. That's very good. I chose the Redmond config that was called. I believe that's Redmond. Yes. I think it was Redmond. Yeah. That's very good. I chose the Redmond config and made tweak. Thank you, Wimpy, for including

that. And then I went to town. You're welcome. And it really, you know, that really got me started fast. And I like that the advanced menu is there, too, so I could use that if I wanted. But I opted not to. Here's the thing, Wes. There was three apps out of the gate I had to install.

Spotify. Okay. Telegram. Yep. Scrivener. Because it's Naimo, Ramo, whatever it's called. What's that called? I don't know.

What's that? Naimo, Ramo? What's that? Come on, guys. What's that? It's the writing month right now. And Scrivener is the big. Oh, I see what you're saying.

Yeah. Scrivener is the big app everybody uses. Got it. Oh, I see what you're saying. Scrivener is the big app, everybody knows. Got it. So in each single freaking app, I had to go bend over backwards to get it working. Really?

So for Telegram, it was a bit of a process, but it wasn't that bad. Spotify, though, was the real SOB. Spotify, if I recall, I had to go get an encryption library from a Debian repo, pull it down, and install it. Oh, Chris. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. What did I do wrong? You're in for a lecture now. I'm ready, yes.

Which version of Ubuntu Mate did you install? 15.10. I went through the welcome screen, and I installed Minecraft using the welcome screen. And then, yeah. But then Telegram. You didn't fancy installing telegram or spotify through the welcome screen was that in there yeah yes they are that would have saved me

some time and and navigates all of those hurdles you're about to describe oh yeah yeah okay are you serious how did i not see that i mean there's a lot of options in the welcome screen so yeah in a good way in a good way. Now, the other one you mentioned, Scrivener, I've not heard of, so that's new. Scrivener is like a book writing, screen writing program. And it's for people who want to write. They have a beta out for Linux. I don't think there's a repo or anything like that.

I think there's just some dev files you can download. Or a tar.gz. Right. And so that did also require some libraries, but, you know, apt-cache, search, and all that, and I got it pretty quick. But for me, that all took, you know, what, 30 minutes? Yes. Top. So it wasn't that big of a deal.

You've done it before. Yeah. Not a big deal. What has been to be – what has turned out to be challenging has been the small things that you wouldn't really think of. Really? And today, while I'm driving, that's why this one jumps out at me, was – so I got Chrome installed. And then when Chrome launches, about eight seconds after Chrome launches, the prompt that comes up that says, enter your keyring password, enter the master keyring password, default application requires access to the keyring, enter your master password, and then in the title bar it says keyring or something like that. In fact, hold on, Wes.

Stand by one. Let's pull this up because this matters here. So we go here. I got the screenshot this morning. Boom. It says, enter password for keyring. Default keyring. Default keyring, quote, to unlock. An application wants to access the keyring.

Default keyring, but it's locked. Enter password. And the title bar says, unlock keyring. Yep. Now, I got this on Telegram because the question was, what the hell is this? And is this okay? And is this why I can't save my files in Scrivener? What the hell is this?

And is this okay? And is this why I can't save my files in Scrivener? And it is just these weird wordings of applications like enter password for keyring default keyring to unlock. It doesn't make any sense. And so any user who's actually painted – I don't even recognize the screen that you're describing. What's that? What is this? I don't even recognize the screen you're describing.

What it is is any application that uses the GNOME keyring or whatever. So it's Chrome. Chrome has saved usernames and passwords, and it stores them in the keyring. Oh. And so when you launch Chrome, the keyring prompt comes up. Now, that to me is normal because I know I'm unlocking the keyring where the passwords are stored. Right. But to Hadea, this was like I went to a website, and all of a sudden now it's asking me to enter a password.

This feels like phishing. Now, props to her for being cognizant enough to be like, this feels like phishing. What's happening, Chris? Why is it doing this? Right? And I'm like, okay, thank you for asking me that. At the same time, just enter your freaking password for God's sakes. Just type it in, hit enter, it's fine.

I'm doing a show right now. Yeah. So it is like, it is slightly, there has been a few bumps along the road where there's stuff I didn't expect. Like another one was the screen dimming. Like describing the process of going into the settings and changing screen dimming was much more complicated than I thought at first. I need to change that setting myself. I haven't tried it yet. So what have been your thoughts?

Well, I've been using it in a very different use case. I've been playing with a NUC that I've got, one of the new Broadwell ones. Or Braswell, excuse me. No, Broadwell. Braswell. No, it's Broadwell. Well, Braswell's the new one.

It's like the Atom Pentium-style chips. But it has H.265, H.264. It's got pretty nice graphics. It's just not that of a beefy CPU, but the NUC was just dirt cheap. So I'm picking it up to give to my parents as a way to... Oh, cool.

As like a VPN node to connect to my network. They can see some of the media files I have. We can do backups with each other, that sort of thing. Yeah. So before I had been configuring it with Arch just because that's kind of my default, but this gave me a great opportunity to install Ubuntu 15.10 Monte.

You know, I should say, like, Arch was my default too, and I actually removed Arch to put this on. Yeah, so did I. I just wiped out the whole hard drive. Yeah. And I've been really impressed. My main use case here is as a VPN node and as a Kodi front end, basically, and Kodi through MB to connect to my media share. So you're using the MB database, and you're using Kodi to display the metadata?

On top of Mate. But I didn't want to use OpenELEC or any of those kind of alternatives because I wanted it to be easy to kind of augment. I was going to use it to kind of do check-ins, if I need to fix anything on that network, et cetera, et cetera. So I've been really impressed. It was super fast to install. Once it of do check-ins, you know, if I need to fix anything on that network, et cetera, et cetera. So I've been really impressed. It was super fast to install.

Once it was installed, I mean, at first I was like, oh, what's the – is it going to show me the boot animation? Oh, wait, no, it's already booted. Never mind. It's asking me for my password to log in. So I've had really good positive experiences. It also – it kind of rekindled, you know, back before Ubuntu switched to Unity. That was my main operating system. And there's that love, there's this fondness.

And using Mate 15.10, it brought back all that I'm familiar with Ubuntu, I've used it on servers, I know my way around it, but it feels modern. It's super snappy. I tried out the Cupertino arrangement and it has the Plank panel right on the bottom, which is really easy. Everybody loves Plank.

Yeah, I think I'm going to use it like that because it's really clear, you know, it's like someone who's not familiar wants to like, how do I start Firefox? Oh, there's the icon right there at the bottom of the screen. So it's been rock solid. And I know that it's like I'm happy to have another Archbox that I just, you know, administer because it's not that big of a problem. But this might be a perfect solution of it has relatively recent packages. I won't have a problem if I want to update to 16.04 later.

And it'll be rock solid. And I know I'll always have it sitting right there. So I think it'll keep on there. Yeah, the thing I like about it too is like it's pretty performant. So I feel like, hey, I'm giving you a nice fast computer. I feel like the battery life is pretty great. And I like that it seems like a pretty obvious upgrade path to 16.04. I was also super impressed with the welcome screen.

I mean, just all the number of apps that you can install, a lot of the default apps that are installed as well. Like, I love that you have that easy option for DejaDuke backups. That impressed me a lot. Just like, oh, I can just stick this up. I could set up for my parents. I could set up a GP link or SSH. I actually think you could remove every single application and package from that welcome screen and just have Minecraft.

And if it became known that you could install Ubuntu Mate and then one-click install Minecraft, it could become like a Minecraft appliance. I mean I don't know. So if you – anybody out there who's listening who has kids, four or above, you know what a big deal Minecraft is. It's literally their life. And the fact that I could deploy an Ubuntu Mate machine with one-click installation of Minecraft is a huge, huge deal. And if you could tell, you know, my son Dylan that this would become, I mean, this would be his obvious choice.

It is just making that accessible, even though it is as simple as installing JRE and getting the Minecraft jar, making it one-button installation is a transfer more. It is, how can I put this? It's like closing that 10% gap that makes all of the difference. It's the uncanny valley that makes Minecraft and easy gaming completely accessible. And if you're looking at somebody who has an older machine, they don't need Windows 10. And you can say Ubuntu Mate, low resources, one-click installation on Minecraft, mind blown. Yep. So, Wimby, now that we're a few weeks into it, what's been some of the feedback?

What's been some of the consistent response? Yeah, it's been positive. I've not heard anything negative or worrying about it. So I'm pleased in that regard. I think the one thing I need to do is try and position, because you've borne this out, I need to position that software feature from welcome a bit more clearly. more clearly um because people are used to these uh welcome screens being a bit anemic yeah and probably don't realize this one actually does stuff for you um so yeah you should have poked around in there a little bit because you could have installed chrome and chromium and telegram and spotify not even telegram too oh geez yeah yeah i installed that one it worked great geez maybe maybe calling it welcome screen is what's making people think it's going to be an emic because welcome screen on windows nt was a thing you just yes exactly you check the box you

never see it again right so what what i'm working on is some of the um applications in ubuntu have multiple icons. And when you launch the different icons, they actually launch the same app, but open it at a particular tab or section of the application. So I'm thinking of making one just called software, which basically just opens welcome at that software page and drop that in there to sort of, you know, kickstart that process. But then again, with the recent announcements about Ubuntu 16.04 and GNOME software,

I'm very interested in, you know, including that in Ubuntu Mate, providing there's no compatibility issues. So I've got all sorts of options and things to consider for the next cycle. all sorts of options and things to consider for the next cycle. I suppose the standout feature, the thing that's really been popular is the Raspberry Pi 2

version for Ubuntu Mate. That has, really? That's seen some traction. Yeah, and it has done for the 1504. It's the most popular platform by far. So, yeah. And that and the 1510 version

for the Raspberry Pi. That makes 100% sense. I'm pre-installed with Minecraft. So you have an inherent advantage of the Mate desktop being known for being low resources. So it makes it obvious for some of those use cases.

And then you have the home advantage of being on Ubuntu. So you have the home advantage of being known for being a low-resources desktop on the Ubuntu platform. Man, no doubt that's popular in the Raspberry Pi. But, you know, in making Ubuntu Mate for the Raspberry Pi 2,

it then became obvious that I was only two lines away from actually making any Ubuntu version for the Raspberry Pi. So I have ported every Ubuntu version to the Raspberry Pi 2 now. And I kicked off a little project a couple of weeks ago called the Ubuntu Pi Flavor Maker. And I presented that at Ogg Camp and at UOS. Brilliant. So all the Ubuntus are now available for the Pi 2.

And the one that I'm enjoying the most is the Ubuntu minimal server image because you've got proper Ubuntu server or traditional Ubuntu server on the Raspberry Pi that you can now turn into anything you want, but it's got all the hardware unlocked for the video call. Oh, that's beautiful. Talk about the perfect sync thing appliance or something like that. Yeah, I think the Raspberry Pi 2 with a sort of a minimal

base OS like the Ubuntu minimal image, it makes that a really flexible device. I mean, it's a flexible device anyway, but having a trim OS. Kits and Kitty, you wanted to ask Wimpy a question about customizations and then maybe other distros kind of taking that and running with it.

Go ahead. Yeah. One thing I've noticed there with Mate is – well, Mate Ubuntu is it's a model Mate distribution. And it provides a lot of stuff that I don't see OpenSUSE. I don't see Fedora implementing in their versions of MATE. In the future, do you think that's going to change and we're going to see distributions adopt more of your tools around that? Or do you think that other distributions just don't care about MATE?

And are you okay with that? Yeah, I'm completely fine with that. I mean, the tools in Ubuntu mate that make ubuntu mate are not um wholly original um you know um bits of software right two of the utilities i forked from software from within linux mint uh ubuntu mate welcome was forked from uh man no it was forked from Anturgos Welcome, which was forked from Manjaro Welcome, which was forked from Karora Welcome. I love that.

So this is now a fourth-generation fork. So those utilities, if anyone wants to fork it and turn it into Xubuntu Welcome or Lubuntu Welcome or whatever, then go for it. I mean, at the end of the day, it's more Linux users, right? Yeah, yeah, that's fine. That's the whole point of open source. I wouldn't have been able to make these tools as quickly

had there not been existing code out there under an appropriate license for me to work from. Last but not least, Wimpy, nobody likes to talk about this. I have a feeling this is probably something i shouldn't even say but i mean is there a is there a point say it's 2020 is there a point where you could make a full-time living doing this because it seems like something that's being pretty well received by the community and it feels like once it's that well received there's obviously value to it there's

obviously something there that people need i mean i, I know you have a great job. I know you love it. But is there – That's curious because I'm unemployed at the moment. Oh, really? Oh, well, I'm sorry. I didn't know that. Chris was trying to rub that in your face.

I basically – no, no. I was just trying to make you sound like a hero. So, I mean – No, I'm between. So, actually, that underscores my question even more than, I mean, because this is obviously a critical distribution. A lot of people find very valuable, a lot of good utilities here, something innovative and different on the market, just like Leap is. You know, today we're talking about two very different distributions that are bringing something unique to the market. Do you wish there was a way to make this a full-time gig?

Do you want something like that to develop? What are your thoughts there? as a way to make this a full-time gig? Do you want something like that to develop? What are your thoughts there? Certainly, if there was the opportunity for me to work on a Buntu Mate on a full-time basis, that would be terrific. That would be a lot of fun.

To be honest with you, as generous as the community have been with their donations in order to sort of pay for the bandwidth, which is mostly consumed by serving up the Raspberry Pi 2 downloads, I don't know that there are enough users out there to sustain a team of people working on it on a full-time basis. And it's a desktop Linux operating system,

so it's a niche of a niche. So you've already got a small audience of people, and there's there's room enough in the linux community for you know distributions like ubuntu mate and ubuntu and ubuntu to have significant user bases but i don't know that they can they can support i mean linux mint have been hugely successful with what they've done what they've been able to generate in their community where they've their community is funding the full-time development of Mint. This has always been a bit of fun for me,

and it's been a learning experience as well in some respects. And maybe it's better if it continues to be that. But, you know, if there's somebody out there who wants to deploy this to, you know, a thousand people or something and they want to offer me a job to look after it and make bespoke changes, then come and find me. Well, you know what? Honestly, Wimpy, I would not be surprised if you keep it up if it doesn't eventually happen. But anyways, in the meantime, patreon.com slash Ubuntu underscore mate. That would be a good place for people to go, wouldn't it?

That would be lovely. Yes. Because the bandwidth bills are getting quite scary now. I'm a backer. And if you're a Tech Talk Today Patreon, patreon.com slash today, you support the Jupyter Broadcasting Network, then really pretty much everything you need is all set up on Patreon. And you can just go click the button and make sure that even if you're not a user of this distro, something very approachable in the traditional desktop paradigm is available to everybody.

88 patrons. That doesn't seem like enough to me. Yeah, come on, guys. Yeah. If he can't pay his bandwidth bills, then how is he going to show up here to entertain all of us? Even if you can't back JB, go give him two bucks a month. And if you can afford to back two projects, then I'd say patreon.com slash today and then patreon.com slash Ubuntu underscore Mate. But if you can't afford to back us, go back them.

88 patrons, I feel like that's not enough for something that literally is making Linux accessible to an entirely new generation of people who do not want the Windows 8 slash Windows 10 paradigm. I think that's a pretty cool effort. want the Windows 8 slash Windows 10 paradigm. I think that's a pretty cool effort. And not that there's not other distros out there, but I think we've all, I think, you know, watching this from the incarnation up to now, I think it's pretty obvious this is a good one to support. Yep. It has that spirit. You mentioned

the one-click installer for Minecraft, which I got the tip from kids actually using it and saying, oh, well, if it doesn't do Minecraft, it's irrelevant. So I sorted that one. And then the other thing I learned from my in-laws is, well, if it hasn't got Solitaire, it's irrelevant. So you're fine directly after Minecraft is Solitaire.

Yes, I did, actually. Maybe I'll install that when I get home. Which is free to install on Ubuntu, Marte, but I believe it's a paid app on Windows 10 now. Oh, it is. Yeah, that's true. That's worth the Patreon backing right there. All right, so very nice.

And, Wimpy, I'll continue to give you my bits and tits and pits and pieces here. And, Wes, continue to use it yourself. We'll let you know, Wimpy. But I actually so far... All reviews and feedback is greatly received because it'll only get better if people tell me what's not working right. I can already tell you I love the integration of Compass and Mate Tweak because that just got me like...

Oh, yeah, Mate Tweak is very helpful. It got me like 70% of the way there right then and there. It was really sweet. Really sweet. I liked it a lot. And you know what? Super fast boot. Oh, super fast. Just the whole thing. I mean, it seems like the go-to distro for visual appliance. Yeah, I was very, very, very impressed.

And I hope it continues to be impressive. You know what else is impressive? My mobile service provider. It could be yours, too. Ting. Go to linux.ting.com. Now, here's why I want you to go there. It supports the show, keeps us on the air, and you get to put Linux in your browser bar.

Really? Walk away. Right there. Linux, I mean, how many URLs have Linux in your recent history? Not enough. Linux.ting.com also. I mean, this kind of is nice, too. You get a $25 discount on your first Ting device.

Or if you've got a Ting-compatible device, and you probably do. You probably do. Yeah, you probably do. You get $25 on service, which is paid for more than my first month. Here's why I say you probably do. You probably do. Yeah, you probably do. You get $25 on service, which is paid for more than my first month. Here's why I say you probably do, and this is really kind of a nice thing. Ting has a CDMA and GSM network. So you get to be a baller. You get to pick because you know what the difference between GSM and CDMA is.

So checkbox there. You actually know what GSM is and you know what CDMA is. Not good CDMA. Good job. I don't know what it is. You don't know? I can't what GSM is and you know what CDMA is. Not good CDMA. Good job. I don't know what it is. You don't know? I can't even say it. I can't even say it. Because I just like to blur it apparently. Ting is so helpful you don't need to know. I suppose you don't. I mean what I

like about Ting is it's obvious because it's no contract. It's pay for what you use. It's $6 for the line. Alright, so that's the baseline. But why I really like it is if you're just like a little bit smarter than the average bear, like you don't even have to be like super smart, but like if you've heard of the word Linux before

or you know what a BIOS is, you probably can figure out Ting. And like everybody else who can't, not judging, because you know what? I love them. They're basically my entire family. They just work at these sweet deals. Yeah. We have the advantage to game the system. And we can game the system nicely with Ting.

Go to linux.ting.com, use your Wi-Fi, pay for what you use, no contract, no early termination fee. It freaking rocks. They got every single device from like a bare bones GSM. You can just go get the GSM or CDMA SIM and put them in your thing. You got a thing, you can put it in a thing. That's fine. Just pay $6 a month for the thing.

Or get like, you know, a feature phone because, you know, you need to make calls and you just need a speaker and a microphone. It's funny how these feature phones have really good speakers and microphones too. And like ridiculous seven-day battery life. How is that not a thing anymore? How did we let that go? You charge your phone every night, Chris. Every night.

Every night. Wes. Without fail. And don't forget you got to charge the watch too. Yes, you do. Because of course the watch uses the power on the phone because you got Bluetooth turned on all the time now, right? Okay.

So you can go get your iPhone 6S or your S6. Yeah, I got both of those. You can go get your Nexus. They got the Nexus Eye directly from Ting. It's really cool. Go to linux.ting.com. Go check them out. Actually, what Kix asks about Ting is their customer service and their dashboard.

They treat these things as like features for their platform, so they're respectable. Go check them out, linux.com, and then go get a device. Now, they don't have these very often. The Novotel MiFi 5580 very frequently goes out of sale. This is a small, crazy long life battery life MiFi device. Pay for what you use, $6 a month. Data in your pocket.

When you don't use it, you turn it off because they have a crazy cool dashboard. LinuxDocking.com. You go get this, you get $25 of service credit. I would guess if you get $25 of service credit, I would bet you can use this MiFi app because you buy it. No contract, right? You buy this Novotel MiFi 5580. They don't have it on sale very often. Yeah, that's a great price, too.

Literally, I only talk about this when they have it on sale. I haven't talked about this for six months. You get this thing, $6 a month when you're using it. You can literally turn it off, read their control panel when you don't need it. Okay? And then, last but not least, what I love about it, $6. So if you just want to accidentally leave it on, right? Whoops.

So you have it in your bag or whatever, like, it's $6. Like, that's less than that frickin' burger you got from the fast food restaurant. Clean your couch, you'll find it in chain. I know. Like, and then when you need data on the go, it's ready for you. I frickin' love it. And $100, no contract, no early termination fee, pay for what you use, and if you go to linux.ting.com

you get the $25 credit, you'll probably get about three months. That's crazy, right? Three months of data, $100 out of your pocket, and you've got data on the go. If you do any kind of remote administration or you need to be available all the time, man,

for an insurance policy, $6 a month is nothing. You don't have to worry about tethering your phone or any of that. You just turn it on and you're ready to go. You'd be like Noah, too. Noah got one of these recently, and he just has it in his Jeep. Oh, that's sweet. Yeah, it's his Jeep connection. They got all the great phones.

They got the Motos. They got the Apple phones. Now, the Netgear Zing is what I have in the Rover. And the nice thing about the Zing is you got the touch interface, so you can pretty much do all the config right there on the device. That's what I have in the Rover. They got all the good stuff. And I think probably right now the best value, I mean, besides the Nexus devices, which would be my first choice, would be the LG G Flex 2. It's got that nice curve to it, nice version of Android, $237, no contract, you own it.

Linux.ting.com. And a big thanks to Ting for sponsoring. Linux, I'm plugged. Man, now I just want to go get phones. What's up? Hey, I want to just do some quick follow-up on Fedora. I don't know how many people in the Mumble room are using it, but a couple of things for Fedora before we move on. Some of the spins are out.

The Cinnamon Desktop spin of Fedora. I tried that one. Yeah? Yeah. Thoughts? It's not quite as nicely integrated as, let's say, Mint, right? Hmm. But it was familiar, and it has all the Fedora pluses, you know?

Modern kernels, lots of new packages, all those wonderful Fedora tweaks. Yeah, but not quite as nice as the GNOME version. Well, or maybe it would just – you can kind of see it in this little image here. It's a little brown. It's a little, you know, like GNOME but without the GNOME flashiness and modern – I don't know. I was less impressed than I hoped to be, but I think with like a few minutes of configuration, it could be a pretty – it could be a really solid version. Now that you say it, it kind of looks like a, well, you're not running Gnome, so here you go. Right.

Right. You know, and it's like the icons aren't blue, which is Fedora's thing, whereas in mint they're green. They're just – You know, it's a little more – and it's kind of a weirder blend between the Gnome look and the cinnamon look. Yes. But that said, like a Fedora base with a really good cinnamon on top is something I would be interested in. And the theme is something you can quickly change.

Right. Exactly. But yeah, first impressions do count, though. Also, for Fedora 23, of course, the KDE Plasma desktop spin is out featuring KDE Plasma 5.4.0 and KDE Frameworks 5.15, of course. And because it makes sense, the application stack is 1508. So just because KDE is really easy to understand, don't call it KDE though

you got Plasma Desktop 5.4.0, you got the framework of 5.15 and you got the application stack of 1508 I don't understand why you guys don't understand this what can't you follow about this? By the way, Plasma 5.4 includes

because it's 5.4.0, includes a new audio applet, application dashboard, and an updated Breeze icon theme. And, with some controversy, Firefox as default. There you go. And then last but not

least on our Fedora 23, something kind of neat. A new Fedora community blog. I'm actually kind of excited about this. Yeah, it's kind of neat, right? The Fedora project is pleased to announce the launch of a new publication platform for different Fedora contributors.

The Fedora community blog. The community blog intends to better connect the different projects, groups, and efforts going on in the community every single frickin' day. Which is great, because Fedora is already kind of that Linux next, pushing the boundaries, exploring things. It's nice to hear more about what they're doing. I agree. I agree.

And then last but not least in our Fedora 23 follow-up category, Fedora Rawhide, if you're already done with 23, you're bored with that S, Fedora Rawhide enables Wayland by default when it is supported. Oh, I am so ready for this, Chris. Are you? I mean, X is great. It works really well. It's stable and, you know, runs everything I want.

No, X is suitable. Yes. I would not say X is great. No, it's not great in any way. Yeah. It is sufficient for now. But I am so ready for the Wayland future and I'm excited to explore it. I'm sure that a million things will break and I'll be very

inconvenienced and I'll complain on air to everyone. But it's going to be fun. Anybody in the Mumbler Room had a chance to try out Fedora 23? Anybody have any follow-up thoughts on our review for Fedora 23? The floor is open. I am running it right now. Tell me about it.

So I think the only criticism that I have is that RPM Fusion took like a week to update. it right now. Tell me about it. So I think the only criticism that I have is that RPM Fusion took like a week to update. That is really annoying. And by the way, a couple of, two points about that. They got the repository online much

faster than they got the website updated. So it actually was possible to get it working under 23 much earlier than the site said it was. But that aside, the hell. One of the things that I didn't talk about in my review in Linux Action Show, but the hell, is why are all of the third-party repositories and all of the third-party flavors like a week at best, and in some cases, corolla, a month behind Fedora? Like when Ubuntu releases 15.10, every single frickin' spin is ready to go. You got PPAs, good to go. Everybody's got tutorials talking about the new 15.10, how to install crap.

When it's Fedora, it's like, oh, oh, wait a minute. Hold on. I'm sorry. Is there a new Fedora release? I guess we better update our repository. I guess we should... Wait, it's been four months. I guess we should write a tutorial on how to do something in Fedora.

It literally feels like you're in a vacuum. When you install a new version of Fedora, like in the first, like, I would just say two, three weeks, it feels like you live in a universe where no other person in the entire universe runs your operating system. And then, here's the great thing, five, six months in, everybody's got

repos, everybody's got tutorials, everybody's got forum threads on how to do S in your version of Fedora six months into it. But good news, everybody. That version is about to be replaced. Before you can even get settled and use a version of Fedora, there is a new version out. And nobody – and I'm looking at you, RPM Fusion.

I'm looking at you, HowToLinux. I'm looking at all of you people out there. Everybody out there. SourceForge, sure, I'm looking at you. I don't care. I just... See how all the Ubuntu users do it when a new version of Ubuntu ships. All the flavors

are out. All the tutorials are out. All the PPAs are out. WebUpdate, OMG Ubuntu. All those people have articles on how to do crap under the new version. Top 10 things to do with the new version of Ubuntu. Google search that right now. Go Google search top 10 things to do with Ubuntu 15.10 and go look at all of the crappy blog articles about the top 10 things to do after you install Ubuntu 15.10. And you

know what they all have? They have PPAs, they have themes, they have tutorials, all of which are relevant to the current version of Ubuntu. Now, I invite you, top 10 things to do, Fedora 23. Go search that. Nothing shows up. Literally nothing shows up. And it is what fundamentally makes the difference between a usable desktop environment that actual people use

and other users can recommend to other people. Oh, wait, now stuff shows up. Well, 21 and 22. Yeah, oh, yeah. That's what shows up. Months after the release. And this is consistently the problem with Fedora. And how do you quantify this in a review?

And as literally as somebody, and I'm just telling you this as somebody who has reviewed every single release of Fedora since they literally called it Fedora, okay? Since they called it Fedora, I have been reviewing every single version of Fedora. And this has every single time been a problem. We are 23 releases in. It will never change, apparently. And it's not Fedora's problem. It's the community's problem.

The community apparently takes a week to get off their ass, and the RPM Fusion site, you know, should just even update the wiki. It takes them four or five days, and it takes them three days just to get their repo online. And you go on Reddit, and you see the number one thing about Fedora 23 is, oh, I can't get RPM Fusion working. It is embarrassing, and it is literally the difference between a distribution that is usable by end users and approachable and recommendable to their average person, and something that makes it only approachable to the elite. And on top of that, it makes it a huge pain in the ass to review.

I'm sorry about the rant. Done. Wow. Actually, I was able to pull up some top ten articles on Fedora, but they don't give specifics because everything is specific to 22. Well, yes. So first of all, you can on Tuesday, November 10th, find some things for Fedora 23. A week, literally, after it's been released, you can find some stuff. But the majority of the stuff you will find is for the previous version of Fedora that

only a clown show would be using at this point. Yep. It's just, it's, so what makes a successful version of desktop Linux isn't just that you release and ship. It is that there are people out there that want to use it. It is that there are people out there that want to use it. It is that there are people out there that want to support it. It is people out there that want to write tutorials for it. It is sites out there like OMG Ubuntu that want to have an entire blog about it, right? It is all of these people that make the ecosystem around distribution that

are fundamentally required to make it approachable to the end user. You need to have a good chance when somebody goes to search, how do I install Steam on Linux? There needs to be at least a decent chance that a tutorial on your distribution shows up. And you know what? If you're Ubuntu today, that's probably the second, maybe even the first link, right? How do I install Steam on Linux? Probably, I don't know.

I've never searched that because I'm not a moron. But probably it's up there, right? I would be willing to bet you I'd actually do the search. Let's do it. Are you on Bing? Well, of course I'm on Bing. We're running Windows 10 in the studio here, folks. Yeah, the Windows 10 test continues. All right. I think he just wants to torture me every week, honestly.

Go ahead. Search it right now. I do, actually, every week. Okay, so install Steam on Linux. Now, here we go. Here we go. And our first result is Steam, of course. Linux, there you go. And developer.valvesoftware.com Debian Ubuntu. Boom, right there. Ubuntu, right there. Even on Bing, it's Ubuntu. Where's Fedora in that list? I don't see it. There's Arch. Yep.

Yeah. Go to the next page. Okay. Arch, Ubuntu, Mint. OpenSUSE. Hey, there'suntu, Mint. Uh-huh. OpenSUSE. Hey, there's OpenSUSE. Uh-huh. Okay, we're on page three.

Puppy Linux. Oh, Fedora 18. That's good. Fedora 18 on which page of Bing? I'm sorry, which page are you on? Go down to the page. We're on three. Okay, on page three, there is an article on how to install Steam on...

Fedora 18. Fedora 18. That. On page three, there is an article on how to install Steam on? Fedora 18. Fedora 18. That is my point. Right there. That proves my point right there. This ecosystem, this ecosystem that makes it possible for average people to approach your distribution is lacking for Fedora. It is good. Steam's page does have a Fedora subsection.

Yes. But that's just Steam's credit, really. And if you look at it, let's see. Fedora, Fedora. Do, do, do, do, do. Uh-huh. Okay. Yeah. Nothing on there about 23. Yes. But that just seems great. And if you look at it, let's see. Fedora, Fedora. Okay. Yeah. Nothing on there about 23. But you do have to rely, again, on RPM Fusion here, which is the unspoken thing

about many users using Fedora is it's not just Fedora, it's Fedora Blow. How does Fedora fix this problem? That's a good question. I have a solution. Yeah? So, every distribution, regardless if it's Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, or Fedora, has a development version which tracks the latest versions of software and everything. And as it gets closer and closer to stable, of course, it becomes more stable. of course it becomes more stable now when i was on the uh rpm fusion website i noticed this that they had releases for rawhide which is the rolling unstable for fedora and yet they didn't have 23

why weren't they able to just freeze rawhide uh because they already knew it was coming out so there was a point at which they could have said hey we're you know this is coming up a week from now let's go ahead and freeze that so the biggest issue for me oh sorry go ahead the biggest issue for me is the communication right it's like if it takes you a week okay like thank you for doing what you're doing but if you just put out something that says we run hit a snake no it's super cool to be known as the distro that's great to install a week or two after it's out that's what you're doing, but if you just put out something that says, we run hit a snake. No, it's super cool to be known as the distro that's great to install a week or two after it's out.

That's what you want to be known as. The distro you install two weeks after it's released. And nothing, you know, really nothing the Fedora project can do here other than continue to kick ass, right? They have to continue to kick ass to motivate their community. I call on the Fedora community to step up a little more, though. I think, you though. I've watched it with 22, and now I just watched it with 23, and it seems like the rest of the crowd

is a little bit behind the scenes, like, oh, there's a new release? We didn't see this coming. That needs to stop happening. I feel like that is the fundamental downside to installing Fedora on release day is the one thing I left out in my last review is just wait a month. To make Fedora the perfect desktop for you, wait a month. And then it's great. Don't get caught up

in the excitement. Don't increase the download cap. Just wait a month. Anyways, before we move on, anybody in the mobile room have any thoughts? I've actually spoken to a few Fedora guys about stuff around this, and we've seen the same thing in OpenSUSE way back when in the past. The really tricky part is having build systems that can keep this all stuff in sync. It's a bit of a technical problem as well as a community one.

I don't know what RPM Fusion are using in the back end for their stuff. Really? I mean, honestly, in a way, this is something the build service could fix, right? Well, it's something that Pac-Man, our equivalent of RPM Fusion, they're using their own build service for this exact reason, because it means they don't have to worry about it anymore. Yeah. their own build service for this exact reason because it means they don't have to worry about it anymore yeah yeah that you can link actual build services to each other so they link theirs to ours yeah figure out what the heck we're doing and then it just builds and actually they got our one done a week before so is it is it just that there's a different class of user using Fedora who are less inclined to want vast? I mean, all the things you've talked about are pretty much all proprietary products. So Skype, Steam, Telegram, well, Telegram's not, but like hosted externally, third party, probably binary only stuff, right?

And every distro has a profile of users and is the profile of a fedora user the kind of person who values their freedom you know fedora doesn't shit with any non-free stuff but therefore is the kind of person who isn't inclined to want to fill up their lovely free software desktop with a load of non-free stuff. I think you could be on to something there. Yeah, I do actually completely agree. And I actually think that's a pretty legitimate market right now. I mean, you know, I think there was, I think 10 years ago, I think that was sort of a tiny, tiny, tiny niche.

But honestly, I think that's tens of thousands of people now and I think that's legitimate people to – Right. And that's tens of thousands. But that's not enough that can sustain a vast community of users who can maintain build servers, who can maintain up-to-date blog posts about 10 things to do and all that kind of stuff. Or honestly, blogs that drive enough traffic that make advertisers interested, right? Even break even on that. Yeah, is it worthwhile me doing that kind of thing?

That is the huge part that you have to break through to make a complete ecosystem. And Leap has got an interesting approach. Fedora has got an interesting approach, especially if you haven't seen our review from Linux Action Show. Go check it out. The DNF upgrade might make it easier to move between releases.

I talked about that a little bit. We'll see, right? I'm going to do an experiment for the next few releases and see how it goes. Kitson, you have our last thought. Take it, sir. Yeah, the counter on Popey on that one. There's actually quite a few titles of free software that is hard to get on Fedora. HeruPad is near impossible.

It's free software, and it's just not packaged. I know. It drives me crazy. It makes me this sad. It really does. But I guess nobody else has taken the time to make HeruPad work. I don't know either. As Richard said, I don't know what fedora or rpn fusion used

behind the scenes i mean we're very lucky in that we have ppas in any member of the community can just yes create a ppa for nothing for free yeah two gig of space yeah and it will be built on any supported release including the development release which isn't even out yet so people can be building stuff before the release comes out and we And we're lucky and our users are lucky that they have that. I don't know what's stopping RPM Fusion from being able to do that, but that might resolve one of the issues you're talking about. I would imagine the RPM Fusion folks are probably just resource limited, you know, volunteers. It's a combination of several projects. It's easy to sit here

and be judgmental, but it does feel like the community needs to... I guess, here's my closing thoughts and then we're going to move on. It is this. With the Fedora.Next initiative, I feel like the

Fedora project stepped up their game. And 23 is really the long-term realization of a lot of that. 22 was interesting. 23 is really that. And I feel like the rest of the community that does the support stuff around Fedora, a lot of them, the majority hasn't stepped up in the same way. Fedora project stepped up their game. Community didn't necessarily step up their game to match it. And now I call on them to step up their game

a little bit. We could have something really excellent here. It just takes a little bit more. Let's make 24 the one where everybody's on page at the same time and it really is something you could say to an average person, go try Fedora 24 and all of the support infrastructure around it ready to go at that time.

It would be really sweet. Hey, you know what else is really sweet? Linux Academy, another sponsor of the Linux Unplugged show. LinuxAcademy.com, go there right now. In fact, pro tip, Wes, you ready for this? LinuxAcademy.com slash unplugged. Boom! Unplugged.

Oh, yeah. Special discount for the Linux Unplugged audience. Just for you fine folks. I need you to go there now. I need you passionately to go there because here's why. You think there is just random chance they've been advertising on the Unplugged show for a little while? No. Oh, it's not? No.

Turns out it's because it's the perfect fit for our audience. It is a resource built, defined, created, born by people who are passionate about Linux. You know, there's other sites out there. Linda. Other sites out there. I won't even name them.

Linda.com. They just put like Linux and open source stuff on there as like a feature. Oh, I hear it all the time, you know, on advertisements online. I was like, oh, well, you can learn this. Yeah, there's some. You can learn this and you can learn this. There are other podcasts out there today that may run a Lynda.com ad. It's for people who like to mess with computers. But see, they will list something like Linux or Nginx or Apache or Ruby or Python or RPM or IP tables or RSync or SSH.

Buzzwords. Exactly. Those are buzzwords. Those are bullet points on their website. They couldn't really give a shit about them they really couldn't uh linux academy is more like jupyter broadcasting it was created because man this thing linux is really freaking awesome now how can we get more people to use it and then from there, they partnered with educators and developers, and they created the Linux Academy platform. They have over 1,900 self-paced courses with instructor help on demand, which is a big deal. They got scenario-based labs. You go and they actually

use something before you go do it in production. And I love this, seven plus distros to choose from. You choose your distro, and then the courseware and the virtual servers match that up. Everything matches. Oh yeah, comprehensive study guides, ready to go, audio, video download them, listen in the shower while you're naked. You can do that. You can listen in the commute. Oh, that might make sense. It's incredible.

Plus they got live streams. Instructor help, did I mention that? Yeah, it's pretty nice. And then of course in the month of October, every single month it seems like, really, they got new features. A new CDN, all Linux powered, new HTML5 players throughout. Boom. Oh, those are slick. I love that.

And, of course, now, better than, like, anything before, when you go through and do a system, they can give you real-time feedback on how you're doing. Plus, they have new systems to prep you for the big certifications. And, by the way, the community? Stacked full of Jupyter Broadcasting members. It's pretty nice. Very friendly. Yes. Go check them out. LinuxAcademy.com slash unplugged. Support this show just by visiting that website and

get yourself a special discount. Just by visiting. I mean, you'll see something. Right? I want to know more about that. Go look at the new nuggets. Maybe you can learn more there. Just help the show out and learn a little bit more about Linux Academy. Visit linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. There's a very special discount for you. linuxacademy.com slash unplugged.

And a big thank you to Linux Academy for sponsoring the Linux Unplugged program. All right, Wes. Well, we're going to move right along now. And did you hear about this? Well, actually, you know, I got to give a special mention before we move on. A friend of the show, Benjamin Crencia or – I always get that wrong. It's, you know, you say it like – Corenza. Corenza.

Thank you. Thank you, Popey. Thank you, Popey. You knew where I was going with that. Thank you, Popey. Thank you, Popey. You knew where I was going with that. Anyways, it is – he has an app called Glucosio for – I guess he's working on iPhone, but it's out there for Android right now.

It's Diabetes Month. This is a special thing for me. And it's not like other stuff. It's not like you don't have to go donate money. Really, they just want people to spread the word. So it's like a crowdfunding campaign, only it's sharing it socially. So you can share on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr. And I'm going to do it right now.

I got a link in the show notes. If you have anybody in your life who's affected by diabetes, this is extremely interesting. So Glucosio is his application for Android and iOS and other platforms. We talked about it on Tech Talk today. And he is doing basically open source crowdsourcing of glucose and diabetes information to do some interesting crowd research. And he's got a great app available for Android right now, Glucosio, to track that, to track blood sugar, what you've eaten, to do some really nice data. And so if this is something, if you have diabetes and something you manage, you might want to

check out Glucosio. It's an open source app that also is contributing anonymous data for research. It's expanding to multiple platforms. And right now, they simply want to spread the word about their open source free application. There's no money involved. It is an open source app from a friend of the show, friend of the network. And I got a link in the show notes. And they just want to spread the word for Diabetes Month.

show, friend of the network, and I got a link in the show notes, and they just want to spread the word for Diabetes Month. And honestly, if you have somebody with diabetes, an open source application is a great way for them to manage it. I think this is also important because I think it can be a good wedge into the medical industry in that I think having these open source apps, like if you have diabetes, shouldn't there be, you know, just in common humanities infrastructure, a way for you to, you know, open source something auditable, something you can trust, a way to keep track of your health issues, right? We need those as a, you know, as a free society. I agree.

And we need more of that in the medical community. So to see something like this, I think we should all support it, even if it affects you or not. Yeah. Link in the show notes if you want to tweet about it or something like that. So did you guys hear about this new Linux ransomware that's targeting the Linux system? We thought we were safe. We thought it was a Windows admin problem. Right, right.

It's called Linux.encoder.1 and it targets personal website files and demands $500 in bitcoins. The antivirus company Dr. Web has issued an alert about a new form of crypto ransomware. Stroke your beard. All these terms are so fun.

I know. You see me stroking the beard? Oh, it's beautiful. Thank you, sir. Can I? Maybe next time I'll stroke. No. Never mind.

Keep it growing. Keep your own beard growing. You got it going right now. It targets Linux users. It's designated as Linux.encoder1. And the malware largely targets web services encrypting the contents and demanding a ransom of bitcoins of value about $500. Many of the systems have been affected by malware and is primarily, I believe at this point, targeting the Magneto CMS. So if you don't run that, you don't really get – this doesn't apply to you.

But it's a critical vulnerability for Magneto CMS, which has already been patched. But, of course, people are lazy. And so this thing is attacking those CMSs with a low-hanging fruit. And another point here is that since this has been productized or whatever, it performs a good – there are still servers out there available to Shellshock. You just kind of take this. You change that one thing. Yeah.

Yeah, like this week there was a story that WordPress now is like running 25% of the web. That's frightening. Yeah, which basically means it's going to take forever for security updates to go out. In order to run the malware, it has to be executed with administrative level privileges. Using 128-bit AES crypto, the malware encrypts the contents of the user's home directories. Hey-oh, yeah, your home directory's gone. And any files associated with the websites running on the system. So it must be scanning for those.

Yeah, oh, yeah, oh, it does. Dude, check this out. It goes through the whole directory structure of mounted volumes. Like, got EFS shares? It's going to check those, right? And it encrypts a variety of files. In each directory, it encrypts things like text files. files in each directory. It encrypts things like text files, and then it

leaves a file behind called readme underscore for underscore decrypt dot txt all uppercase because it's boss level. That's cruel. Yeah, it's boss level. It's clearly influenced by the Windows pedigree here. Yes, yes. Very much so. Very much so. And it demands payments and provides the links to the

hidden Tor site. The malware specifically looks for Apache and Nginx installations, as well as MySQL installs in the director structure of the targeted systems. You got that database? It's gone. That's right. It's gone. And it's gone. And it also seeks directories, log files, locations of webpages,

contents, before ultimately going after a variety of file types, including Windows executables, hey-o, program libraries, and actor server pages. Yes, those ASP files and SQL files, JavaScript, and document files. If the victim makes a payment, the malware itself will then initiate decryption of the file. Otherwise, it remains encrypted. You know, they don't mention Python.

That's what I usually end up writing my servers in. You know what's funny, actually, about that? The fix is a Python script. Oh, perfect. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, this has been a whirlwind story, and by the time we got on air, there's already a fix out, and you can decrypt your files. The tool was created by malware researchers from antivirus firm Bitdefender, who found a major flaw in the Linux.encoder1 ransomware.

Turns out it uses really shitty random number prediction. Turns out it uses really shitty random number prediction. The researchers discovered that when it generates AES keys, the malicious program uses a weak source for random data and the time and date at the moment of encryption, so it can be figured out. Yeah, they just seed it with the current date, and there you go. Easy enough.

They encrypt it with an RSA private key here, but you don't even need it because you can just guess it. Yeah, the timestamp is easy to determine by looking at when the AES key files were created on the disk. Therefore, researchers were able to reverse the process and recover the AES keys

without needing to decrypt them, making the RSA public key and private keys essentially pointless. The tool was created and released by Bitdefender. It's a script written in Python

that determines the initialization vectors and AES encryption keys by analyzing the files encrypted by a ransomware program. And decrypts the files and fixes the permissions. Even fixes your permissions, guys. It mods your files for you.

If you can boot your compromised operating system, download the script, and run under the root user, you're okay to go. Okay. If you can boot any Linux live CD and you know how to mount a drive. Exactly. Exactly. Crypto is hard, guys. Crypto is hard. I wanted to come on this show. I want to talk about the first Linux ransomware.

I wanted to tell you that it was a real scary thing, you guys. I mean, I'm not saying I wanted to come on this show and I wanted to be all like Alex Jones up in this space, but... What's driving me crazy is that photo right there. Zoom in on that. It's one of those cops in a black uniform with a mustache.

And you just look like an absolute clown freak that works for murdering terrorists that jack our food and water. I think you're a big joke. But no, it turns out your Linux boxes are completely safe. Completely safe. But mustaches are not. All right. So I wanted to talk about one more thing before we wrap up today. This Linux Unplugged show, it's a community show.

It sure is. We got our virtual lug here. That's what makes the show. A bunch of handsome assholes. Beautiful. You know, we need some ladies to come in here to represent our love. Please, yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Go to jblive.tv. We do this show at 2 a.m. Oh, my God. 2 p.m. Pacific over on, that's like in the best time zone ever. But if you go to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar, we'll convert that to your time zone for you automatically. All sentient beings are welcome. If you're a sentient, you know, you can think for yourself. You run Linux, just come hang out.

Can I make an asterisk? Yes. And your microphone. Yes. Okay. You need a microphone. You need it to be interference-free. You need to not listen to the live stream while you try to talk to us.

That's true. All of these things. And then you can please, please join us. All right. So anyways, before we moved on, I wanted to talk a little bit about community drama because this seems like the show to do it. It's the Unplugged show. We got to talk a little bit about things. But here is something that I don't know what to process and maybe somebody in the mobile room can chime in.

But it appears to be that there is a bit of controversy in the Debian community. And this is coming from the developer of the Debian Live release. He says and it is permanently halting. He says that Debian Live is dead. Hijacked by the Debian CD and the Debian

installer teams, the Debian Live server will shut down at the end of the month. Get repositories will go read-only as of now, and are mirrored to a GitHub for archival. So long, and thanks for all the fish. Now, Debian Live is the basis of a lot of Distributions Live CDs.

And it seems to be pretty upsetting. And it appears to be the result of a bit of an in-project controversy where there was things that were not happening like, oh, I don't know, UEFI support and whatnot. Who needs that, Chris? Right.

And so Debian Live CD NG was created, which sort of added some of these features, but the original developer of the Debian Live CD project wasn't notified. And when he found out, it was based on a poll request that referenced the new project. Not a great way to find out. No upstream patches or nothing submitted to him. Yeah. Debian seems to get these

where there's many sides. And it's kind of just a complex human problem. It very much is. It's an open source community and it can be hard to do these. Some things need to happen, but it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. Like they have to move on, right?

But at the same time, like they have the same difficulties that all of us who have difficulty having difficult social interactions have. Exactly, yes. And so I don't know. Anybody in the moment before we open this up, anybody in the moment have immediate thoughts on today's story about Debian Live being dead? It just sounds like a lot of overreaction how so well i think that uh you know the debbie and live maintainer could have been a bit more diplomatic about it you know if i was in his shoes yes i would be a little bit upset that I wasn't notified about it. But I'm not going to reject somebody else's work. And it does sound like he has had some diplomatic issues in the past. Yeah, that is honestly something that I've picked up on too.

And it seems like some basic communication stuff might have been missed. Both ways perhaps. Yes, exactly. And now we have this. And unfortunately, though, who's really affected are end users, and specifically Debian stable users, who don't really stay up to date on the day-to-day stuff like this. They're depending on it to be stable. Yeah, and it is an interesting development.

Any other thoughts in the moment before we wrap up? I think it's kind of unfortunate, but I don't really think it's a big deal. If you have an owner who doesn't want to play nice with people who submit patches, then they're going to fork your project. That's just kind of unfortunate but i don't really think it's a big deal if you have an owner who doesn't want to play nice with people who submit patches then they're going to fork your project that's just kind of inevitable i mean that's sort of the point really yeah open and he should have been cognizant of it i feel like he should have been aware they were doing this it probably wasn't you know completely behind his back i'm sure there was talk about it and so i'm sure it wasn't just all of a sudden oh one day here's this project that no one knew about and it has all these patches contributed to it.

Right. There is some sort of pressure in the open source world. If you don't make your branch the best, then someone else's will be. Very much so. It is in some ways. And that's healthy for the users. Exactly. Exactly.

That's just what I was going to say. Isn't that in the long term exactly what we want? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. And his response is actually kind of brattish, you know? He could have just said, oh, well, maybe I shouldn't be the owner anymore, and I can hand it off to all these guys who clink they know, you know, what the correct direction for this project is,

shutting it all down and forcing them to go with the fork instead of allowing them to take over this original name and continue on with the lineage. Yeah, although I do wish there could have been more communication up front. Just to not to waste labor to, you know, help. Yeah, and avoid really the story. Yeah, yeah, I don't have to talk about it. Yeah. I have a theory as to why these problems keep happening, though. Go ahead. So I think a lot of it is and I've noticed that it's personality conflicts. And I really have to wonder if these people have any experience in jobs where they work with people maybe they don't have that experience like working with customers and whatnot and just dealing with angry upset people and how to yeah calm them down you know you're saying

everyone should have to perform a customer service job in their life then i would agree with that i will tell you the people the sysadmins that have at one point in their life, as they worked the chain up that worked in the help desk position, or the knock, or the whatever, they are absolutely the best admins. Like, because they have spent a year or two understanding the end user's perspective, and no matter how intellectual you are,

no matter how good you are at visualizing, until you've actually worked that role, you don't understand. And it really does make a difference. That's a good point, too. All right. Well, I'd like to hear your points. LinuxActionShow.reddit.com. Go find Linux Unplugged episode 118 and leave us your feedback.

Maybe you have another viewpoint. You know, you could also join us live and give us your viewpoint. Please do. Yeah, JupyterBroadcasting.com slash calendar to get that in your local time zone. And don't forget, we want to get your opinions on OpenSUSE Leap. Have you been trying it out? Let us know. In fact, you can even join us live next week.

I should be back from System 76 in Denver, Colorado, and you can join our Mumble Room and let us know. Or you can go to Jupyter Broadcasting dot com slash contact or even better, LinuxActionShow.reddit dot com. Wes, is there anywhere you want to point anybody this week? Not this week, Chris. Come on, man. Come on.

Something. Twitter account? Something? I do have a Twitter account. I'm also NoblePain in the IRC. Boom! I got some more content coming your way.

Nice. NoblePain in the IRC. I like it. Look at that for that next week. Very nice. JBLive.tv for live shows. linuxactionshow.reddit.com for content. Thanks, everybody.

See you right back here next week. it's for people who like to mess with computers. And you know who you are. If you're somebody who doesn't want to mess with it, I just want to buy something on Amazon, send an email to my kids, look at some websites. If that's you, you don't want to mess with it, probably not a good choice. I think Chromebooks are a good choice.

I think a new version of Windows would be fine. Windows 8, if you can afford it. A Macintosh, if you've got even more money, that are a good choice. I think a new version of Windows would be fine. Windows 8 if you can afford it. A Macintosh if you've got even more money. That's a good choice. It's only for the enthusiasts that I'd recommend Ubuntu. There you go. All right. All right.

JBTitles.com. Let's name this sucker. A great turnout in the Mumble Room. Thanks, everybody. Really appreciate it. Yeah, you guys make the show. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely.

I feel like we could basically turn them on and then if we just gave them a couple ideas and walked away, you and I could go get some tacos and we'd be fine. You come back, you rant a little, just to get them charged up again, and then it's good. Usually when that happens, it turns into a text editor action show. Yeah, nice.

That's fine. Yeah. JBTitles.com, JBTitles.com, everybody boat. Taking the leap, mate. Oh, right. Sportlo. So, Chris, you mentioned installing Spotify on Ubuntu

and you had to grab an old Yeah, like Libcrypt from Debian packages. libgcrypt11. Yes, yes, yes. Look, I'm just going to paste the link. This is probably the website that you read on the Spotify Linux download page, yeah? That was where I started, which kind of sent me down the wrong direction, really. Yeah, so here's the thing.

The little bit of text in there is the word currently 1404 that information is relative to 1404 but in those instructions they say add this repository and there is the word stable if you change stable for testing you get a secret source which works on the current version. You're kidding me. That's ridiculous. Not only that, but it's the 1.0 release and it's got the 32-bit and 64-bit packages in there, the

whole thing. Good to know. Yeah, and that's what Welcome does behind the scene, is turn that repository on. Very nice. Thank you. Good to know. I will keep that in mind for future deployments. But it's worth knowing for checking, because I haven't looked in the AUR packages, but if there's Spotify packages in the AUR, if they're not grabbing them from the testing repository,

grabbing the DEBs from the testing repository, then they're probably also pulling in, you know, Gcrypt 1.1, but that means you're getting 0.9 something of Spotify, but I'm running 1.15 or something at the moment. And it's nice. The new version is sort of like feature parity. Yes, I did notice that on my Arch desktops. The new version is much better.

Well, it looks like someone in Arch has already figured this out, in which case. Yes, yes. But good to know. Very much so, actually. Thank you. Well, you can pull in Hey Citizen, Kits and Kitty, and North Ranger. They've all been... I know that they all have good mics.

Well, I actually don't know about Hey Citizen, but... Oh. What? Hey Citizen has the annoyingly best mic here. Oh, really? How is that guy? He's really irritatingly nice. Oh, I want to hear it.

I haven't heard it yet. So do I, because you were telling me about this. Yeah, drag him down in here. Let's see. Hey, Citizen. Sure. Let me hear it. Let me hear it.

Okay, hello, Hey, Citizen. Hey, Chris. Oh, that is good. Oh, very nice. Oh, shit. Now, Hey, Citizen, are you a podcaster yourself? No. You're shitting me.

Then why do you have such a good mic? Just to make you feel bad. Well, you should host a podcast. You're hired. Then why do you have such a good mic? Just to make you feel bad. Well, you should host a podcast. You're hired. What equipment do you have? You know, just a cheap sound card. And this mic I bought like 10 years ago when I was in a band. That makes sense.

I was using until recently. Yeah, it was an old mic from a stage. Also, though, is a like a five percent reverb that gives you a little tiny bit of god voice right so you sound like very authoritative like you could just you chime in with a teensy-teensy bits of echo and it really works for you we're all intimidated courtesy of jack so you're using jack to do your eq and stuff oh yes yeah that's that might be why it's working so good yeah yeah it might be why you sound so good it's almost worth tinkering with jack isn't

it yeah it almost really is i should yeah it's really rock solid hmm so what what what distro are you using and how did you persuade Jack to work with Mumble? Well, on Arch, there's actually a package in the AUR, which is Mumble, Git, Jack, and Mumble Jack. Yes, of course. Of course there is. So that's for a current version of Mumble, because I've heard people talk about this adapted uh version but it's usually like 1.20 or something quite old but you must be running a current version uh yeah uh 1.3.0 there we go so well it's all lies everything i've heard about um the jack

version not being available for a current version of mumble then that's just lies yeah yeah it's it's in the arch user repository as a god dash voice and you just go ahead and what's the what's the difference between uh jack and lapsta plugins or whatever they're called are they the same thing at all well those plugins are are what you use in Jack to have effects. Hmm. Okay, I need to spend some time with Jack. Yep, me too. Oh, okay, so they are the same system.

Well, yeah, LADSPA, which I think now has been replaced with LV2, those are like a protocol. It's kind of like VST. You have instruments and effects. Actually, Citizen, I think you've lost a bit of the base that you had you know when we told you to turn it into an am radio the other day to make us feel better i think you didn't turn it back to exactly how it was before you've lost some of your low end a bit oh really this just won't do yeah Yeah, yeah. Is this a bit better? Oh, there you go.

Whoa, whoa. Oh, no. Okay, so apparently I should throw away thousands of dollars worth of gear and just use Jag Audio. Hashtag puppy wants it deeper. Oh, dear.