LINUX Unplugged - Episode 138: Better than Linux | LUP 138

Episode Date: March 30, 2016

Has Linux met its match? That’s the claim several outlets are making this week. We look at the new & innovative operating systems stepping into the public light.The first official Ubuntu tablet goes on sale & we share our thoughts, a little BASH on Windows & a lot more!

So Rotten Corpse is in here. Let's – Rotten Corpse here. So we're in the pre-show discussion thread and I'm sitting there grousing about the fact that I've done two installations of Ubuntu 16.04 today. One of the Mate flavor and one regular flavor and I'm downloading Kubuntu 16.04. And I'm starting to grouse a little bit about the fact that I want Plasma 5.6 as my desktop. And there's no reasonable way to get Plasma 5.6 on Ubuntu 16.04. You have to use either A, Ubuntu 15.10 and then use Neon, or B, wait for the backports packages to get updated for 15.10 and download it that way.

But there's really no way to get it for 16.04 because Neon is based on 15.10 right now. So it expects 15.10 repos and 15.10 packages to be pre-installed. And 16.04, there's no official way, there's no repo out there to get the Plasma 5.6 desktop. So I'm sitting here grousing about this. You know what Rotten Corp says to me? He says, that's just a

sign of a lack of patience. I disagree. I disagree. I disagree. I'm going to go farther than rotten corpse and say that ubuntu and canonical should probably just focus on doing you know unity on oh for the absolute well that's what they do that's all they do yeah that's what they do yeah yeah i mean you know even the community members that are now being supported and stuff yes if they want to you know but outside of the project, I would go for that way. Now here's where I

think it's weird, is it's weird to me that something that's the latest in development isn't available for something that's in the latest in development. I understand why, right? Oh, because we haven't had a chance to base it and test it. It seems like it just seems like such an old way of doing software. It feels so weird

that I want to install the latest version of Ubuntu and I don't get to install the latest version of a Plasma desktop. Like, those two things, like, I can't believe those two things coexist. This is not an impossible problem to solve. And other distributions have solved this problem, some of them fundamentally from the way they're based, and others just using other tricks. It just really kind of strikes me as having now,

I'm not trying to make this an Arch versus Ubuntu thing, but now being two years or plus deep into using Arch and then now using Ubuntu leading up to our review, it really strikes me as a totally old way of doing things, much like when you go back on a system that uses a really old init system like we're going to talk about later today, right? It really feels like a super, or like if you install a distribution

that doesn't have a GUI partitioner and you have to use FDISC or CFDISC, like that's fine. And, you know, okay, I kind of remember how to do that, but it seems like I shouldn't have to do that anymore. So it's not like, I mean, it's not a matter of impatience. It just seems like an old model, an old way of delivering software on a system that is constant.

Like, 16.04 is like as cutting edge as you can get for Ubuntu, and you still can't get cutting edge packages on it. I fundamentally understand the mechanics and the reasons why. But to me, it seems like we should have solved this by now. There's also another little detail. It's an understanding of marketing i mean if you are going to try and have a bad experience even though it's developing and you know it's development you're gonna you know talk bad about it and so they actually have something to protect versus other no i'm not don't necessarily have that protection i'm not even talking about canonical

shipping anything or or Ubuntu releasing anything. I'm just simply coming down to, it's really weird to me that there are packages for some Ubuntu systems that I can install on some systems. Like, for example, I almost guarantee you, I could

install a Kubuntu 15.10, get all the prereqs that I need installed, install Neon, upgrade the son of a bitch to 16.04 with Neon still installed. I bet you it would run just fine. Like if I just rejigger the approach, if I jump through these hoops appropriately, I could trick the software into installing through the package manager. I shouldn't have to do that, though. It's weird. I'm not talking about who's releasing what or what community is supporting what. I'm talking about

fundamentally, this is an old way of managing your software on a Linux box. It's just weird. And it's good, by the way, that I'm bitching about this now. Let me tell you why. Because I'm getting all this out of my system before it comes time to actually do the review. So by the time I actually sit down and review Ubuntu

16.04, this will be old news to me. It'll be called, collected. And it's honestly, it's because what I'm doing is because I'm testing the different desktops, I keep redoing installations. So I keep setting up from scratch with new installs. And I tell you what, it has been tedious. This is Linux Unplugged, episode 138 for March 29th, 2016. Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's been installing distributions all morning long.

My name is Chris. My name is Wes. Hey there, Wes. It has been an install fest here at the all morning long. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. Hey there, Wes. It has been an install fest here at the JB1 studio. It always is. That's true. But it's really kicked up into high gear recently. I've been going through and installing different iterations of Ubuntu 16.04 for upcoming review.

Oh my gosh, I got thoughts on that. But that's not actually what we're here to talk about today. Coming up on the Unplugged program, we have a whole bunch of updates on some of our favorite open source projects at the top of the show. Then I'll give you my tale of ordering the new Ubuntu tablet, the first Ubuntu tablet available for pre-order. Have you seen this thing? Yeah.

We're going to talk about that. And then later on in the show, Wes, prepare your body, prepare yourself. Linux distributions are old news. We have two brand new Unix eyes, one that is actually based on Linux, and one that says Linux could learn a few things from us. We're going to give you our thoughts on these two game changers, as they call themselves.

And then later on, towards the end of the show, I've got a little bit of a fest update, and Wes, you will testify to this. I had to write it down. There's so much to cover. Oh, it's complex. Right? I was pen and paper writing this down because I can remember it, you know. So a lot in the show today.

A lot to cover. But before we start any of that, we really can go no further without bringing in that mumble room. Time appropriate greetings there, Virtual Doug. Hello. Hello. Pip, virtual lug. Hello. Hello. Hello. Pip, pip. Hello.

So I just mentioned a few seconds ago, so you probably heard me say it, that I was installing me a whole lot of Ubuntu earlier today. And I got to say, right here, I think the software boutique might be the best thing to happen to Ubuntu since Ubuntu. Wow. Straight up, full stop. The software boutique, I think it is now going on anything that is Ubuntu-based, regardless if it is the Mate desktop environment or not. And Wimpy, I wanted to ask you if you have considered releasing this.

I know it must rely on apt heavily in PPAs. This could really be a thing. I mean, this is a great tool. And so it must be possible to use it on other Ubuntus, correct? Yes. It's all built using the same tools that power things like the Ubuntu software updater and stuff like that. power, things like the Ubuntu software updater and stuff like that. So do I add it as a PPA if I'm on a different distro or a different spin of Ubuntu,

or how does that work? Well, the software boutique is part and parcel of Ubuntu Mate Welcome. So if you install Ubuntu-Mate-Welcome on any Ubuntu that we'll just install. Okay, so Ubuntu, I'm doing it right now. Dash welcome. See, okay, let's see here. I have this on this neon machine. Whoa, that's a whole lot of packages it wants to pull down there.

Yeah, if you're on a KDE machine, it's going to need a lot of GTK dependencies. It is, though, I have to tell you, when I sit down and I set up a machine and I can launch the software boutique, what I think is really great about it, Wimpy, is the application choice. I don't know if it was you that picked them or who. Who picked the applications? So it was myself and Matt Hartley and Luke Horwell, who's the primary developer for Software Boutique and Welcome now. You guys nailed it. You guys totally nailed it.

It's the good stuff, and it takes care of all of the clunky PPA stuff in the background. And it's just click, click, click, click, and you're going, all right. So my installation is done. So now if I just run Welcome or Bout click, and you're going. All right. So my installation is done. So now if I were, would I just run welcome or boutique? I'd probably want to run the software. So you can find either Ubuntu Mate Welcome or the software boutique in the control center, hopefully. I mean, it's KDE, though, so I don't know where you'll find it. But from the terminal, you can run Ubuntu-Mate-Welcome.

Okay, I'll do that. I'll do that. I'll do that. Okay. Yeah. Ubuntu- And then, hang on. I'm going to give you the secret source. So it's Ubuntu-Marte-Welcome, space, dash, dash, software, dash only.

Ah. Okay. Type that in, and it is launching. Lovely. Yeah, okay, software. Brilliant. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. Thank you.

So now I can make this rig even better. Perfect. I love it. This is such a nice tool. It's worth installing all those dependencies for me. Maybe it should be in one of those app image containers. Yeah, I described it as it makes installing Ubuntu easier than Antigros, which that's really something. That's really something.

But, I mean, it's one click. And that's the whole point. The whole point is this is supposed to be a low barrier of entry install system of just the stuff you need for people new to Ubuntu or lazy people like me so right i'm sure i'm sure everyone everyone in the mumble room and everyone that's listening has done this you have a collection of scripts that you can somewhere and when you install a new machine you then run a whole swathe of shell scripts which install this and that and configure things where you want and this is taking all of those scripts of things i used to install and just putting them in one place that anyone can use. You're sharing them with everyone.

And how does it work? Why does it work on both 1510 and 1604? Because when I try to add a PBAs for one, it doesn't work for the other. So how does that work exactly? What are you doing on the back end? So on the back end, there's a small database, which is just a JSON file called applications.json. It's very, you know, cleverly named. And in there, it's a list of all of the applications, and it has some properties in there.

So it will say something like, this piece of software only works on I386 and AMT64. Or this piece of software is compatible with trusty wiley and xenial but then it will say on trusty and wiley use this ppa but on xenial use the official archive and on on this one because i'm like on some neon hybrid it says okay it's not available for this one okay um i try to know the the operating system that you're using should be wily right uh what what have you installed this year oh i see this is a this is a 1510 with neon and they changed some of the repo stuff so right okay but on so that will work as though it's wily yeah so for example if there's stuff that hasn't been released for xenon yet you won't see it right

in the 1604 version but you will see it in the Wiley version. Yeah, and it looks like my GTK theme, so whatever desktop theme I'm using, it looks nice. It looks actually really good under Plasma, too. Surprising. Yeah, it really is an offensive. It's really a great tool. And if you run

Welcome itself, there's a little button in the top of welcome with it's going to also appear in the software boutique as well to say subscribe to updates and what that does is that actually keeps your version of welcome and the software boutique in step with the absolute latest stuff oh yes as new applications become available so So when, for example, Oracle release VirtualBox for Xenial, that will turn up in the software boutique for you and other things like that will just sort of come online as the support gets added. Yeah, when you're on a new distro like that and stuff isn't completely ready at launch, that is really nice. Just show up when it's ready. I would argue that it shouldn't be a problem in the first place, but that is actually a pretty good solution for it.

I would say that. So I just wanted to say thank you because it was a heck of a tool for me today as I was setting up three different Ubuntu rigs. And now I just put it on a Plasma desktop. So there you go. It works from all over. You can use it anywhere. Yeah, you really can. You really can.

All right. So before we go too much further, I should mention we are enjoying ourselves a Fremont Interurban, do you think, Wes? Yes, I did. IPA. Well, there you go. Because beer matters. So that's our – so if you in the lug there have yourself some beverage, you can crack it open now. There it is.

And that's what we'll be enjoying. It is ranked at 86, which is pretty good, very good actually. And it has a ABVF. Just a few minutes south. Yeah? Really? Down in Fremont, in Seattle. Oh, they meant that.

You have been nailing the local beers lately. I do what I can. Are you doing that on purpose, Wes? Maybe. A little local flair. You know what would be great? We should treat the guys when they come out for Linux Fest. All right.

We'll save that for the LinuxFest talk coming up. All right, let's do some updates. This one caught both Wes and my attention today. We're like, okay, this might be something worth talking about. There is Hubbub coming out from Mary Jo Foley over at All Things About Microsoft at the ZDNet. Talking about day one of build, Microsoft might announce an Ubuntu-based Bash shell running on top of Windows 10. What? Yeah.

It seems that Bash on Ubuntu will figure in somehow. Bash is a Linux shell, she mentions. I don't know if you knew that. Did you know that? No. I was going to ask. Stands for the Bourne shell, she says. That's what she says right there.

Stands for, and it has plugins, she says. Ooh. I love it when Mary Jo, who I respect, is trying to cover a Linux technology. She just is so often. That's good, though. She's doing a good job. To employ text commands. Yes.

I love that ability. Thanks, Bash. So as someone has noted on Twitter today, there's already ways of getting Bash. Of course, we're not Windows, which was news to Mary Jo, which of course we all know is Sigwin. But Microsoft has been brewing on something that goes a step beyond that. In Redstone builds, which are new builds of Windows 10 spotted recently, there was a Linux subsystem added to Windows 10, a Linux subsystem in the new builds of Windows 10.

And so we might find very soon at the build conference, which is, I don't know, coming up soon. It doesn't really matter. Coming up soon, the Build 26 Developer Conference, we may see them launch Bash based on Ubuntu on Windows 10. Popey, are you switching? From what to what? Well, now you can have your Ubuntu command line with your Windows 10 desktop environment. What else do you need? And Cortana.

Yeah, yeah, Cortana. That's already beta testing it. So I could say to Cortana, RM minus RF slash. I hope so. I hope they, I mean, if they're dumb enough to put that stupid Tay AI robot online, they might be dumb enough to make it that easy. You know, speaking, I mean, not to pile up on Microsoft right now, but can we just take a minute

and just talk about how out of touch they are? Like the idea that the reason why, the idea that them putting a bash shell on Windows is what's going to keep me developing on Windows is kind of adorable. And it just shows how disconnected they are from what people actually want. Much like this commercial about the Microsoft Cloud helping the digital crimes unit fight, you guessed it, cybercrime.

Check this thing out. The biggest challenge for business today is not competition. OK, the biggest challenge is what? Cybercrime. You got it, buddy. It's protecting customer trust. Every day you read headlines about governments and businesses being hacked,

emails compromised, and intellectual property being stolen. That is cybercrime, and it affects each and every one of us. So how do we fix this? Cloud, dude. Oh. Microsoft created the Digital Crimes Unit

to investigate and fight cybercrime. Look at how many big screens they have. We use the Microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. So they use the cloud to visualize information so they can track down criminals. And what they're showing here is a huge screen

which is literally sitting in front of a huge screen. Do you see that? Are these bigger or smaller than those Fox News giant screens? That's the same size, but do you see what they literally are doing? They are literally standing in front of a screen that is blocking their field of view, which is then in front of it another larger screen that they

probably literally cannot even see while they're doing pinch-to-zoom on a cloud-powered map because they have cloud. We use the Microsoft Cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals using our advanced analytics tools analysis that used to take days to run. We can now see in real time and we're building what we learn back into the cloud to make. So here's what else is really weird is you notice how they keep zooming in on the United States like they keep showing cities and stuff in the U.S.

They're watching the United States traffic. But I guess when you have the cloud, you're everywhere. Back into the cloud to make people and organizations safer. When it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount. Our passion

is making life tougher for cyber criminals and making it safer for you and your customers. Microsoft, come run Ubuntu on our cloud. Don't let that baby on the internet. That's what's so great about the Microsoft cloud is that more and more it's used to run Linux. So, yeah, have that at everybody. Isn't that great? Honestly, the company that's got the most egregious terms of use and Yulo out there that is totally designed to invade your privacy at the drop of a hat is trying to pitch their cloud platform as the opposite of that. Wimby, I would ask you this one basic question.

Where do you think they're getting all of the metrics that they use to visualize and put back into the microsoft cloud to hunt cybercrime where do you suppose those metrics come from i can't imagine exactly yeah hmm yeah hmm yeah i wonder where they have they also have a new other upside which is the telcos are moving to put their infrastructure on quote-unquote cloud. And they're pretty much actually hiring a lot. If you look at most of the mobile companies and telcos are hiring people for cloud development of their infrastructure technology. Yeah, cloud. Okay, we're not going to spend a lot of time on this,

but there is a significant amount of game news updates to do really briefly that we're just going to spend a couple of moments. And the first one is partially because it takes me back to when I finally had to save up my own money to get my own first Matrox graphic card. And this Matrox graphics card had like this expandable RAM module to go up to like eight megabytes of RAM or four megs maybe. I can't remember. And it shipped with a game that forever changed my gaming. Tomb Raider. And now it's coming to Linux again.

So much has happened. I'm super excited about this game, just because I've been wanting to play a Tomb Raider game. Our captain is injured. Have you heard from any of the others? Nothing. Takes me way back. Our crew is scattered. I have a bad feeling about this. So, Tomb Raider is coming out for the Linux desktop soon, and we don't have a date yet, but we

have details in the show notes. It's a reboot. It's going to hit Linux and SteamOS this spring is the guesstimated ship date, so stay tuned for that. Another game coming out, Two Worlds 3, which is in development. And Two Worlds 2 is coming to Linux. That's only a little confusing. Right.

Two Worlds 3, which is likely to come to Linux, which is in development. And Two Worlds 2, which is getting an engine remake, graphics assets, a new DLC is coming to Linux. Yep, so that's a game coming. And then another game that's actually hit public beta right now hitting Linux within the last week is Darkest Dungeon, which is a roguelike turn-based RPG, which just got its public beta.

And I will just give you a brief taste of what it's like. There is a great horror beneath the manor. A crawling chaos that must be destroyed. The task ahead is terrible. And weakness cannot be tolerated. So that's Darkest Dungeon, and the public beta is out right now. So there you go.

Oh, and one more, Payday 2, which has had a bit of controversy in the past, has hit SteamOS and is going free for the rest of March to play online. And so if you want to – and they're doing it specifically to celebrate the SteamOS launch. So if you want to throw a little love, you don't have to – nothing out of pocket, I don't think, to get Payday 2, at least not for the online play. So there you go. That concludes your Valve Steam Game Linux proprietary gaming update. Faster than ever.

Yeah. I tried to bust through it super fast for those of you who don't care. One more little thing, though, kind of gaming related. Pharonix has a pretty good comparison right now of AMD graphics cards versus NVIDIA graphics cards using Vulkan. Oh, really? Yeah. And early game reports on Vulkan coming in now.

So if you are curious about that, Pharonix has that. You can go check that out. Yeah, I want to play games. I just want to play games. But we've got to get real for a second. I don't normally mention alpha releases as an open source like project follow-up thing, but I am going to mention Fedora 24 Alpha, which shipped today, and only because it sort of codifies something

that we already knew well in advance. And that is that Wayland will not be shipping as default in Fedora 24. Yeah, they read here, we've decided not to make Wayland the next generation graphics stack the default in Fedora 24 Workstation. However, Wayland remains available as an option

and the Workstation team would greatly appreciate your help in testing. Our goal is one full release where the non-default Wayland remains available as an option, and the workstation team would greatly appreciate your help in testing. Our goal is one full release where the non-default Wayland option works seamlessly or reasonably close to that. And at that point, we'll make Wayland the default with X11 as the fallback. Here's my question. Mumble Room. Does this mean we will not have a mainstream Linux distribution shipping with Wayland in 2016, as in another year will pass without Wayland shipping as the default, on a mainstream distribution?

It's possible. Yeah, I think it does mean that, doesn't it? I think it just means we just clocked another year without Wayland. Now, if Mir could close the gap. That's not bad. The year in Mir. X has been doing its work well. Yeah, yeah.

If we use the year of 2016 to polish it up, obviously that's worth it. I'm just pointing it out. It's just worth maybe mentioning. It's funny to realize that when it's still only March. But it's good for things like SteamOS, right? I don't think it was ever going to be a problem for SteamOS. They would have hung out on X probably for a while. But you're right.

Anytime you can refine the process and get it better and get another year of driver development in. That's probably good. And if you can make the switch that much better, you know. Yeah. And of course, there's going to be distros out there you could load. Well, today. Right, you can use it today.

Yeah. And we're only a week into NVIDIA supporting Wayland on their proprietary driver. Of course, there's going to be distros out there you could load. Well, today. Right, you can use it today. Yeah. And we're only a week into NVIDIA supporting Wayland on their proprietary driver. Yeah, good point. This is probably a good idea. Also, if you go down to the alpha, you can get your hands on GNOME 3.20. Oh! Yeah, get the new GNOME, which would be pretty nice.

Good way to get that. So it looks like overall a pretty cool alpha. And they mentioned you may have some issues with old themes. But yeah, I just thought that was... Oh, okay. Okay, no Weyland. Also, speaking of updates from distributions, Arch has a doozy

which... Hey, Rikai! Note this one down, okay? I better let Rikai know because we've got some servers here we've got to update. Pac-Man needs to be updated on your Archbox before April 23rd. And I'm going to be too busy at LinuxFest to remind you guys. You've got to stay on top of this yourself. This is Chris helping you out right now.

In order to use the hooks, the new hooks, the new fancy hooks, they say, we require all users to update the latest Pac-Man, 5.01, before April 23, 2016. Which, by the way, guys, has been out since February 23. So get your freaking updates on. Dash S-Y-U already. You're getting two months, so get on it. Otherwise, you're going to be in a world of hurt. You're going to have to probably go download that stuff manually.

So there you go. Oh, thanks. Wait, really, Rikai? Really? Oh, he says he already did it. Look at that Rekai. Good man. Man, that guy, he gets an internet cookie.

Hello, everybody. Well, that's the best I got for right now. That's the best I got. So there you go. Go update your Arch boxes. The first thing I thought of is, oh, no big deal. And then I looked over. You see that machine we have running right there?

Yes, I do. It's a 3D desktop running on Arch. That runs OBS and VLC and Nginx and fancy stuff to do internal RTSP streams. Sure. I haven't updated that thing since like December, I think. Maybe January. What are you doing this afternoon? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, the problem is that I break it when I do the updates. Then I have to be like, Rika, come fix it. I don't have time to fix OBS. Because it's usually the Nginx installer or something that breaks. You know what I need to do? I need to be like, Rika, come fix it. I don't have time to fix OBS. Because it's usually the Nginx installer or something that breaks. You know what I need to do? I need to shut that NUC off and move it over to a DigitalOcean

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They got CoreOS because why not? Go put it in a Docker container or a Rocket thingy or whatever. I don't care. Just go do it, right? Go do it. You know, we've been seeing a lot of people saying, hey, do you guys want to create a how-to guide on installing own cloud? Just go over to DigitalOcean and just click the one-click deployment. And what's great about it is if you screw up your own cloud installation, you just mess

it all up, you can go back and redeploy that base image again, and it's right back. Own cloud installed. Ubuntu's installed. Good to go. It's like, okay, that wasn't so bad. Put your data back in. Bob's your uncle. They have a great interface, a

really nice intuitive API that you can write around or just take advantage of some of the open source code that's already out there. A community tutorial section that is honestly it beats everybody out there. Tons of really great help out there. So not only do they have the one-click applications, but

if you just want to do a basic rig and just set it up yourself or you want to build on top of it, really good tutorials. So just use our promo code D-O-Unplugged at a $10 credit, support the show, and spin yourself up a droplet. DigitalOcean.com, data centers all over the world. Check them out at DigitalOcean. Use the promo code D-O-Unplugged and a big thank you to DigitalOcean. Thank you. Hey, D-O, thanks, man. Thank you. Hey, D.O., thanks, man. Thank you.

I'm pretty excited about this, only I have been pulling my hair out about this new Ubuntu M10 tablet. So there's two versions right now. There's like the HD version, the 1920 by 1080, and then there's like a quote-unquote HD version, which is more like 720p. And it's been – I think it was announced, what, yesterday for pre-order, coming from BQ. It's the Ubuntu M10 Aquarius, Ubuntu edition or whatever. Going to have 16.04 on it, probably shipping in March, April-ish. No. No?

Not 16.04. No. Current build, it'll be OTA 10, which is based off Vivid. So that's 15.04. But we'll move to 16.04 soon. You know, they say 16.04 in the product marketing there. Oh, dear. That's interesting because I saw it say 15.10 actually.

Well, I'm talking about just right here in the imagery. I don't know about in the actual specs. You know, either way, I mean, that's sort of not the big point. That's not the big story. The big story is it's our first crack at ordering an official Ubuntu tablet. That's the story, right? That's pretty exciting. Pobi, tell me, do you have to buy it yourself or are you just going to be getting one or how does that work?

have to buy it yourself or are you just going to be getting one or how does that work so for some like looking around me i have a bunch of devices that i have you know been given but i do buy my own as well so i i like to know what the consumer experience is sure so i i have two machines side by side and i i have i have one on one that's uh running the latest stable and one that's running unstable, so I can tell and compare and contrast. So, yeah, I'll probably end up buying myself one. I might get one from work, but I'll probably buy myself one anyway. I don't know what my problem is, but I can't get my order to go through. I don't know if other people – actually, I heard from somebody else.

Bad credit, Chris. Somebody else on Twitter is having this problem. But I put my order in. I put my shipping address. I created my account. And then when I click on place order, the page just refreshes and it goes from $299 to $799. It actually goes from $299.90 to $799 price. And then I hit proceed to check out just to see what happens and it just – nothing happens. It never proceeds.

I can't actually proceed to place an order. and I've tried for the last couple of days. So I have not been able to order one yet, but I definitely want to get one. I think it would be – I don't know. Have you heard, Popey, like about how many there are? Am I going to run out if I don't get an order in soon? What's the word there? I don't know, actually. I don't know how many they're planning to manufacture usually when they when it's a pre-order the the fact that you're

uh ordering them means that they take those numbers and manufacture a certain number for for the demand but um no i don't know i've not seen that problem at all so uh i've heard from only one other person that's having the problem it It's got a 1.3 gigahertz quad-core MediaTek ARM processor in there, 10.1 inch screen, 8 megapixel camera it looks like, and this is going to be the one that gives us convergence, right? This will be a

tablet that you can hook up to a keyboard and mouse and have a full desktop experience. Oh, that's awesome. Yep, and you can either use the internal display or it's got a mini HDMI port so you can just plug in an external display if you want a bigger display. That's a big feature. And you can either use the internal display or it's got a mini HDMI port, so you can just plug in an external display if you want a bigger display. That's a big feature. You can use internal or external.

It isn't being talked about that much. Mini HDMI, you mean? Well, just. Oh, the convergence aspect of it? That's why I want to get my hands on it. I want to try it. Yeah. I really want to try it because I think that's going to be.

That makes it a lot more interesting. And plus, not only do I want to try it, but I'm sure it's going to be something that's going to be iterated on for years. Or at least for a while. And so I want to see it as that process matures, as that experience matures. And so that's why I want to get one. But for goodness sakes, I can't get the order in no matter what I do.

I do not know. Yeah, I've also tried it in Chrome and Firefox. I've tried it with no ad blocks turned on. I'm just really happy they didn't cut the corners with the display in order to get at that price point. Because when I saw that it was

full HD, I'm like, oh, this is an absolute buy. Oh, really? You're not worried about maybe applications that you don't want that aren't available or something like that? No, that'll be solved with time. Yeah, and plus, there's a lot of Linux apps that you might want to play with, right?

Anybody in the Mumble Room order one of these? I have. Okay, Wimpy, what was your reasoning? Other than just, obviously, interest. Yeah. Also, I had the BQ5 phone, which I bought. I've since given that to a friend of mine so that they can experiment with Ubuntu. And I've been using the Nexus 4 and the Nexus 7.

And I want, a bit like you were just saying, I want a proper device that's going to be supported for some time. uh and i'm really wanting to see how this works on the road as a portable device that i can take with me and do useful things on because i think poppy am i right about this firefox and libre office are going to be installed by default on these maybe i don't know i haven't seen one myself so i remember reading at some point that those were going to be pre-installed applications. So when you go into the windowed mode, you've got those sort of productivity tools. Poby, how does that work? Is it BQ that delivers the final image? No, we build the image.

It's exactly the same as it is for all the other devices. We build the image. We do QA, and then we pass it to BQ. They do their QA, and then they integrate that into their factory process. So at the point when they manufacture the devices, the image that gets deployed onto them is the image that we made. true that LibreOffice and Firefox are going to be working on this, then that also means that it's shipping applications

that require XMirror to be fully functional by default. Correct? Yes. Yes. They use XMirror. Yeah. You got the same problem? Except a different number. So Wes just tried to buy it to see if he had the same problem I got and he has the same problem, only he got $5.99 and I got $7.99.

And we can't proceed with the checkout. I wonder if that's because you're living in the filthy colonies and not over in enlightened Europe. I'm sure, but it says worldwide delivery, right? It says worldwide delivery, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, neither one of us can place an order, and both of us are trying.

Well, you know, it's... I've wondered if I should just buy the regular Aquarius and could find the image available. Oh. Is that likely? How's that going to work, Bobby? I know this is sort of looking into the crystal ball a little bit, but are there going to be images I can download down the road

and just install on it if I want to? Yeah, all our images are the same for all of the devices. They're already available. You can already go and... Oh, they are? They're not device-specific? Yeah, they are images are the same for all of the devices. They're already available. You can already go and rummage on our server. Oh, they are? They're not device-specific? Yeah, they are device-specific, but they're on the same server as all the other devices. Oh, okay.

So you could go and rummage and find them. They wouldn't be the final image because the final image isn't done yet. But, yeah, you could go and get the image. I'm not guaranteeing that you could go and buy an Android version of that device right i know flash it because that's somewhat out of our control right if they put some lock on it or make it or or changed firmwares or something like that right and that's that's beyond our control but the one so we always say if you if you buy the ubuntu one we you know we know we can reflash that but we just don't know about the android one, but past experience, we have had people who bought the Android version of the BQ phones and then asked BQ for the flashing tool

that allows them to flash them to Ubuntu, and BQ have provided it. So it's out of the realms of possibility. They do have good support at BQ. I like that. I like hearing that. I don't know. Does anybody else have any thoughts or questions about the tablet before I just selfishly change tracks for a moment?

No? OK. If anyone can buy it, just plus one for Chris. Yeah, right. How – OK. Maybe, Poby, you might be the best guy to ask. Maybe somebody else might know. How likely is it down the road that if I were to eventually wind up with a Nexus 5X that I would be able to run Ubuntu Touch on that?

Right now I'm looking at it. It seems like the most powerful phone I could get to run Ubuntu Touch would be the OnePlus. And I don't really have any interest in the OnePlus. I'd rather have a Nexus device. Am I SOL theoretically down the road? Or is there likely eventually going to be a community edition or maybe even official build for the newer Nexus Eye? So it's a good question. And we've got a community porting campaign on at the moment. And if you go to ubports.com, I think it is, ubports.com, there's a list of, there's like a wish list of devices that people want ported to.

And the OnePlus One is only already done because that was done some months ago. The guy who did that, Mario, did that a while ago. And it turns out that the internals of the OnePlus One and the two and the OnePlus X are fairly similar. So actually, he can reuse some of that work. The devices that are wish lists that you'd really like probably aren't being ported because a he doesn't have the time and he's just one guy and b he may not even have that device so he asks for donations if we want to give him a you know chuck him a few dollars then he'll buy it interesting i know he

has done that like someone threw him some money so he went and bought a one plus x and then i saw a message on google plus with a photo of a one plus x running ubuntu so you know as soon as he has the device he starts working on it but he has now a queue of devices to work on and he is only one guy if you know anyone who who is familiar with porting like cyanogen type porting from the xda developers community if they want to get involved and start porting to some of these other devices like nexus devices that would be awesome and put them in touch with Mario. 5X is on there. Yeah.

It's just not funded. Yeah. It seems like I'm having more and more conversations with people where they say, from now on, I'm only buying Nexus devices. And that's not to put down like the OnePluses or the S7s or anything like that. But people are just like – It's about all I consider on it. I mean maybe a Moto X. Yeah, but I've been – it's funny how often I've been having this conversation and I think a lot of people are coming to this as they look at the smartphone market is if you're going to go Android and you're technically savvy and you want direct security updates from Google, you just go Nexus right now.

Right now. And so if Ubuntu, though I'll just say touch, got to the point where it was – it got to the point where if you – like where Linux used to be for laptops a decade ago where you could take a pretty mainstream distro and if you got a fairly mainstream – well, not even 10 years ago, five years ago. If you got a fairly mainstream laptop, you had a great shot of getting Ubuntu to work on that. It would be really something now. If you got a Nexus device, you'd have a pretty great shot of knowing you'd also be able to run Ubuntu on it. Man. That would be such a great place for Ubuntu to get to for those devices because it would just become another option to run on a Nexus device.

And it starts to make the Nexus device look less like a Google phone and more like a general smartphone platform that you could just load other OSs on. And that's pretty neat. Good hardware, good price. More like traditional PC hardware. Exactly. Something to standardize. Decent hardware, good price.

Yeah. There you go. That's better. I mean it's reasonable. Kitson, you wanted to jump in. Go ahead. The reason that I will only purchase a Nexus device is because the support. With a Nexus device, I know I'm getting at least two years of

support. And why am I going to spend, you know, $700 on a device that may or may not receive updates? And then on top of that, if I go to the Samsung Galaxy S website, I can't find out if I purchased this device, how long they're actually going to support it. It's not, it's not, they're not interested in committing to that. No, no. The interesting thing here is you've all been tainted by the problem of Android is that, that the thing that has made you do that is the ecosystem around Android that's forced you to all make that decision. You shouldn't have had to make that decision. You don't write that decision decision about laptops you don't buy a laptop because you're going to get a vanilla experience you nuke it and put whatever you want on it right so that and that's something we're not doing we're

putting the same image on all of the devices so the the original bq e 4.5 the very first phone that we had gets the same software updates as the M10 that comes out next month. And that's the same updates that the Meizu Pro 5 that comes out next month gets, and the next device, and the next device, and the Sony device, and the OnePlus device. And if it's ported to the Nexus 5X, then yeah, that gets it as well. So it's the same software stack that all of them get. Yes, exactly. I think that's wonderful. And that's the long software stack that all of them get. Yes, exactly. I think that's wonderful.

And that's the long-term hope. But in the short term, I think my Linux laptop from a few years ago analogy holds up here because a lot of times people needed to still run Windows. Still do. They needed to run Windows. This is going to be true with Nexus users. They're going to still need to be able to run Android probably at least for the next couple of years. And so that's why you want a well-supported Android device, but you also want something

that can run Ubuntu, and you really want a sweet spot there. And so that's why it was – that's where the Nexus – You're getting me all excited here, Chris. Right? Doesn't that sound great? Yeah, it really does. Yeah, because I want to run Marshmallow. I don't want to not be able to run Marshmallow, but I also want to run the latest Ubuntu Touch

or whatever it's supposed to be called. I'm one of the rare people who will never get a Nexus phone again. Why is that? Because the Nexus phone completely lost power and the power button was faulty and broken. That's frustrating. The phone won't turn on at all. It just does a boot loop forever. I've had issues with every single phone eventually though.

But yeah, that is frustrating. One of the things – the reason I like it though is like LG made that phone but under the guise of what Google told them to do. If you look at LG's phones, those are awesome. Like the ones that are just there. Like the G4 and G5? Yeah, the V10. Pick an LG phone. It's pretty cool.

And even if like the crappy lower level like $80 Leons are really impressive for their price. And the best part, there is no bloatware in LG. They don't do that stupid crap that most reasons would be playing Android. Oh, really? That is nice. You know, that's actually really cool to know. Why don't I take a moment and mention Ting because they sell the LG Volt 2 for $66. Whoa.

And LG has just announced they're going to ship Marshmallow for the Volt 2. So go to Linux.Tting.com. You'll get this device for $66. It ships tomorrow. No contract, no early termination fee. You only pay for what you use, flat $6 for the line. That's Ting right there. linux.ting.com. Go there to support this show. They have a great selection of devices. They have right now currently a post on the history of the Kodi project, which is awesome. I love that they're getting into that. It's super cool that my mobile carrier is writing a post about the history of Kodi.

I mean I totally love that. Also – They get it. They do. And they also have the OnePlus 2. They have the Nexus devices. They also have the S7. They just recently added the S7.

The OnePlus 2, $349. You could load Cyanogen on that, no problem. You could also load pretty much a lot of images. I mean, it's the OnePlus. $349. You walk away. You own it. It's unlocked. There's no contract. Nice and clean. You want to just go buy the Nexus 5X from the Google Play Store? Do that. And then just get the Ting SIM and just pop the SIM card in. Easy peasy, my friends. From the SIM card starting around $9, which you can get Prime on Amazon.

I know. But then you can't support the show. So go to linux.ting.com at least. Go there. All the way up to things like the Internet Phone 7. Oh wait, they don't have that out yet. The Internet Phone 6S. Okay, they might have that. The Samsung Galaxy S7. All of that stuff. They okay, they might have that. The Samsung Galaxy S7, all of that stuff. They have a great lineup of phones. They have great customer service. They

have an excellent control panel. Find out why I've been using them for more than two years. Linux.ting.com. And that LG Volt 2, I mean, it's not like it's going to blow you away in specs, but I mean, hell, a $66 smartphone with no contract, you pay what you use and you get freaking marshmallow. It's a great phone for people who haven't had a smartphone before, But, I mean, hell, a $66 smartphone with no contract, you pay what you use, and you get freaking Marshmallow? It's a great phone for, like, people who haven't had a smartphone before. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Don't have a lot of extra cash.

Or if you just need a budget Android device, but you want to have something that's secure. I mean, that seems reasonable. I don't know when LG is shipping it, but they announced shipping Marshmallow for the Fold 2, which is really cool. That's awesome. Yeah, linux.ting.com. Go there to support the show. And a big thanks to Ting. I'm going to keep trying to get myself that Ubuntu tablet too because I really do want to. What?

Yeah, you got it. I mean, I want to play with it when you get it. I know. Because if I get it, you get to play with it. Exactly. That's very true. Okay. So have you guys heard of Stali?

Anybody in the mumble room heard of Stali Linux? I think I'm saying that right. Who said yes? Rotten. Oh, of course, Rotten. Okay, Rotten, how did you hear of this distro? Seriously, how did you hear of Stali? I thought I'd have one on you. ZDNet, isn't it?

Okay, well this one is from InfoWorld. Okay, kind of same thing. So Stali promises to smash assumptions about Linux like a freaking wrecking ball. And so they've put a wrecking ball picture in the post. It's a distribution built with all statically linked binaries. They say for speed and compactness. Stally stands for static Linux with static referring to how all binaries in the distribution are statically linked against their libraries.

to how all binaries in the distribution are statically linked against their libraries. Stolle's project head says, and by the way, he also currently works at BMW and is the developer of DWM, window manager, believes that static linking works out better for most common use cases. The most obvious benefit in static binaries, have a smaller memory footprint and on-disk footprint. I don't see how that's possible at all. Static binaries also claim to be faster, although there's no real benchmarks yet.

And here's another doozy for you. Here's another one. Another way they're challenging the quote-unquote, directly from the article, traditional Linux distribution, no package manager. No repo, no package manager. Instead, all updates are pulled from upstream by way of Git. Also,

no systemd, no systemd at all. Stali has its own S-init utility, which is also statically linked. Sinit, yeah. Sinit, which is also statically linked and also, by the way, kernel modules not supported.

Nope. Because you would need to link them. So this is Stally, the distribution that smashes assumptions like a wrecking ball about Linux, according to InfoWorld. But, I mean, the ISO they provide now, it's like 34 megs. Okay. And that's easy. Is that a full desktop environment too? Well, no. That's here.

Just the command line? So you have it installed right here? Yeah. And this is all you get? Yep. This is it? Also, all you get is however many programs are in slash bin. Take a look there.

Is there the LS still on the screen? You'll see that the file system they use is a little different. That's one of their talking points. They don't use the file system standard. Right, yeah. Well, they really don't. Yeah, sys and share on the root. Log on the root.

That's interesting. Dev on the root. After things sys and share on the root. Log on the root. That's interesting. Dev on the root. After things are just symlinks to root. Yes, var user and root, actually, the slash root directory. Yeah, that was confusing at first. Yeah, are symlinks to the root. Yep. What?

That is really weird. It is really interesting kind of as a study of like a minimal Linux. I wonder if I could show this on camera. I don't know if this will show up. Here, you guys, if you're watching the video, pause it and look at this crazy directory structure. I can't hold it for too long, but it's just, it's really, you want to grab it? That is, that's really like something I've never seen before. That is special and unique.

Wow. So the completely statically linked distribution. What are your thoughts having installed it in Runnit West? Does it perform well? It did boot very quickly. I mean, there's not much going on. I don't know. I mean, it'd be interesting.

I could see it being useful for people who really want to build something very minimal or very customized and really have a very good conception of exactly what's running. If you're trying to craft this into some sort of embedded or appliance-like application, maybe this works well. Especially if you already have something that's installed

as something like an app image or a snap package style system where it has all of it. It's statically linked or it has all of its dependencies within itself already, then that might be a great way to just use this and run it on that. Did you see that everything for like all the system services and everything, the way you start and stop everything is a single RC init file?

Yep. And there's an RC like shutdown file. It's all in one file. All of it. Everything for simplicity. That's the rc.exit power off. Yeah. There you go.

Okay, Rod, what were your first thoughts when you read the headline? I mean, can you see the argument for it? Could you make a case for it? Statically linked, yes. I mean, in certain cases, that makes sense. The entire system, no. Yeah. It looked ridiculous.

But I laughed when I saw the bashing systemd thing, and they were making it called Senate. That was just funny. Yeah, that is good, right? Yeah, that was a good one. But the tout about it's only 34 ISOs, yeah, so Tiny Core is about the same, and Nano Linux is only 14. Okay, all right. Daredevil, you've got a good point to make.

Go ahead. So I'm going to defend them in the sense that statically linking has become more and more common because hard drive space is not an issue anymore. And bandwidth. And bandwidth. It fixes the problem. And bandwidth.

And the problem of deployment is gone because suddenly you just deploy this binary and it will execute. So, yeah, you don't need a package manager if you just deploy this binary and it will execute so yeah you don't need a package manager if you just execute it and honestly when you're going to look like google for example go programming language doesn't even allow you to have shared libraries so is that that odd probably not about the system d part well if you are statically linking everything then the other components don't need to be initialized the same way because there's no dependencies to initialize before so of course

they're going to make something that you know that it's just different because they don't need it even moving on to the next point you know it's not much different than having you know when you're an android um busy box uh having your rc having all the programs inside just with the command line options that then inside the program splits them out so that's not that big of a deal and not that different anyway so honestly it's a lovable goal now on the file system directory splitting i mean in the, all of the separation was because you have to separate parts of the software, like images here, resources there, shared libraries there. You don't have those things to care about anymore. The assets can be embedded into the binary. Then definitely yes.

And as a last point, compilers optimize better when they have accessible all of the source code. So technically, yes, it can be faster. Yeah, it does seem to boot super fast and run super fast, right? Yeah. Okay. So now continuing on this narrative, I've noticed the media, the print media, has like a theme they're running with a lot recently. And that is this could teach Linux a lesson or Linux has something to learn from this. Could this finally replace Linux?

And so to amp it up a little bit, here we go. You ready, Wes? Whoa. Rust Redox OS could show Linux a new few tricks. See what I'm saying? You see how intense that is? I'm scared for Linux. Over the last several months, a team of developers has been busy doing exactly that,

using Rust to create Redux? Redux? Redux? Redux? That's what I think too. A full-blown Unix-like operating system designed as a radical rethinking of the Linux approach. Redux uses Rust for its kernel-level code to provide more memory safety considerations

than C allows by default. Redox uses a minimal set of syscalls and a deliberately smaller subset than Linux. Got to get that in there. Which avoids legacy bloat. Got to get that in there. Got to love that. The OS also uses a microkernel by design to stay slender in contrast to Linux's monolithic kernel.

And many of the OS's internal behaviors have also been rethought. While Linux and Unix both use the notion of every item as a file, Redux goes a step further and treats everything like a URL. So it's simple to register handlers for events and provides a consistent manner to perform other kinds of abstractions. Another radical break from Linux is that the software isn't licensed under the GPL, but the entire project is MIT. The entire project is MIT. It's negative in the freedom dimension.

I feel like we've been seeing a lot of MIT projects lately. Yeah, I feel like we've been seeing a lot of going to teach Linux a lesson recently too. Yeah, that as well. Yeah. And I wonder, Daredevil, when you say you've looked into it, and you have some thoughts? Because I know Rust is massively popular in the Mozilla crowd. It was recently voted one of the most loved languages on Stack Exchange.

So tell me a little bit what you've been following. So Rust does provide some safeties that might help mitigating some issues on kernel development. So I'll give them that. But it still implies that they're good developers in the first place. I don't know if they are or not. So I'm not making any statement. I'm just saying it implies that they're good developers. Then you're going to have to go to the next level.

Actually, Linux kernel is a hybrid kernel because of the way it loads modules. And especially when you're considering KDBus that it's being implemented. So there's that part too as well. Moving on to the argument that Linux is complicated. They're saying that Unix philosophy is right. The implementation are the things that are not working. That's their claim in their website anyways, which means that they're going to implement most of the things in a familiar Unix way. They're just going to change some of the little details that are in Linux because legacy.

So with that perspective in mind, I think there's people that are actually right now doing a bolder moves when it comes to software kernel development that they're actually saying uh let's uh get away with all of these separation and multiple users i think they're crazy but you know there's talks about these people actually working projects like which actually go to differentiate themselves and on mit that's all to say that the gpl is the whole reason linux succeeds because all of these companies fund Linux. Right. Look, who's funding them?

No one. I'm going to answer just – Yeah. I think what I – so Alex Voda, what I – he's saying, oh, man, this is crap reporting. I hope he doesn't mean mine because I agree. What I'm poking fun at is the narrative of the media that they are taking projects like this and they're using it to say, this is what's going to teach Linux a lesson to generate clicks.

And I think that's a really interesting trick they're trying to play there. Wes, you've actually downloaded and installed it just there. Yes, I'm running VirtualBox right here. Nope, so they have a 28 meg installer. You just like, it finds your devices. It looked like it was using the same terminology as dev SDA.

Hit yes. It installed. I rebooted. It started up booting into a familiar kernel looking startup identifying devices, AHCI, that kind of stuff. Started the graphical environment. I've got it running here. Wait, you're telling me

in a 28 megabyte? Yeah, I guess it must all be contained there. A 28 megabyte download has a GUI environment too? But the mouse doesn't work. Oh, it looks nice though. I know. It's got a file manager down there. It's got a calculator, a terminal, a sound controller.

And to start it up, I just logged in and it had a terminal anyway. It's another hold it up to the camera edition there. But you can see here, Wes, you want to take it and, yeah. So you can see there, there's the desktop environment with a sort of like your standard start bar down at the bottom. Boy, that is damn impressive. That is really, and that loaded pretty fast in VirtualBox, too. Hmm.

I mean, just in the time Daredevil was talking, I got it installed. Yeah. I have a sense about Rust. I really do. I don't want to talk out of my butt too much more about it, so I think I want to move on from the topic. But, you know, I was looking through some of the upcoming talks, the sessions that are going to be at LinuxFest Northwest.

Oh, exciting. Rust's community automation, and they talk about this. They say this talk will discuss the implementation details as well as the social motivation and effects of the customized infrastructure and workflow practices, which allow a small core team to have such significant impact. They talk about Rust being a system programming language that runs blazingly fast, prevents seg faults, and guarantees thread safety.

Behind the scenes, Rust is also a community that nurtures new contributors, consistently enforces its code of conduct, and maintains a high quality code base. This is a talk at LinuxFest coming up on the 24th in room CC236 and damn that looks at 1230. Oh I did just see something. They're working on ZFS support. No! It says work in progress right so like

probably doesn't work but that would be kind of cool. Oh man that's a mind bender. So I'm really giving it to Linux there. Boy 1230. I don't know if I'd be able to attend that since I'm going to be on the air, but that seems like Yeah, let Noah do it. Yeah. You know, maybe. I would be really interested in going to that. That Rust community automation

talk might be really interesting. Why don't we start talking a little bit about Linux, LinuxFest Northwest 2016 real quickly, because that actually leads perfectly into my next couple of things that I want to update you guys on. First of all, you know what we've got to talk about, though?

Let's get real. Let's get serious. Let's talk about Linux Academy. When you're ready to get serious about extending your education, about learning a new platform, about bringing your career up to the next level, or just challenging yourself, linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Get our discount and go check out the Linux Academy platform. Seven plus distros you choose from.

They automatically adjust the courseware and the distros they spin up when you need them on demand, including, by the way, when you're doing AWS courseware, they'll spin those instances up for you. I know, man. It's a really cool platform. Tons of cool features, tons of courseware focused on the different aspects built around Linux, the run on top of Linux or Linux itself. They have systems and tools available if you don't have a lot of time. And if you want to go get some of the top high-grade courses and certifications,

Linux Academy has the courseware on it. They just recently did another OpenStack certification courseware. They've got awesome courseware on the Red Hat certified stuff. If you need scenario-based labs so that way you know exactly what you're doing when you go do a production, they've got courseware on that. If you want instructor mentoring, they've got to help instructors. They've got to help with what you want. They've got live streams.

They've got a community stacked full of Jupyter Broadcasting members. I love it. But more than all, more than all of it, I love that there was a company out there that said Linux is an amazing platform and none of the educational sites out there are doing it justice. They're all treating it as a stupid feature that they've got to check the box. And they ship some crappy courseware alongside their Adobe After Effects courseware. Yeah, exactly.

It's just one more application to that. It's one more thing. I'm so sick and tired of that. And so, you know, the folks at Linux Academy who are passionate about Linux and open source themselves, educators and developers, friends, they came together. They started Linux Academy. Now it's grown into a business. They're growing like crazy with new staff members

dedicated to all kinds of great things for your content. And they've built this platform to help promote Linux and give people a real place to learn Linux by people that know and love Linux themselves.

Linuxacademy.com slash unplug. You see why it's such a great fit. Go check them out and support the show by visiting that site. Linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Thank you, linuxacademy.com.

Unplugged. Thank you, Linux Academy. All right. So in 2018, when Jupyter Broadcasting is making Leo Laporte money, I mean we're talking, you know, not right now, something down the road. But when we're making Leo Laporte money. It's for people who like to mess with computers. I'm going to fly everybody out in the moment. You mean at the year of the Linux desktop? Right, yeah, yeah.

Where we've released Jupyter Broadcasting OS based on Ubuntu Mate. That's where your wallpaper is the live stream all the time. Yeah, yeah. And every time you...

You're at Wayland. Right. I just, I wish all of you guys, I wish you could all be at Linux Fest Northwest. Maybe we could like bring the mumble room in at some point.

Oh, we should. That'd be fun. That would be cool to actually be able to do that. Because I feel like it's one of the neater events, not just in Washington, but in the states. And so I'd love it if you guys can make it. Maybe one day. Maybe one day.

So I had a couple of things I wanted to cover real quickly. If you didn't see this week's Linux Action Show briefly, I'll just mention. Noah and I have officially made a stash bet. The stash bet is briefly, if he loses to Emma, he has to grow a mustache for six months. And he's not very good at it.

So that'd be embarrassing. He'll be visible every week. I want him to win, but if he wins, I will shave my mustache in order to motivate him to do it. That's how dedicated I am to winning. So that's the stash bet. Just the mustache, not the beard. Well, I don't know.

Where would it all go? I doubt it because then I start getting carded, and that is super annoying. I hate getting carded. It's your handsome young face. Wouldn't you look like an Amish person if you do that? Yes, that is the problem. I will very much look like an Amish person if you do that? Yes, that is the problem. I will very much look like an Amish person a lot. But I also want Noah to win by a large margin.

So I need a little help from my community. I really want to see you look like an Amish person. I really want to see that. Well, then Noah's got to win. So here's what I've figured out is we've got to change the game up a little bit. I mean I don't want to talk bad about our boy Noah, but I'm looking at the playing field and I'm thinking Emma has got the cards stacked in her favor right now. So I want to change it up and what I want to do is I want us to be able to go mobile. I want us to be able to go around and go to different locations.

And so if people are listening to this and are going to make it to Linux Fest and you perhaps want to volunteer in either helping with bringing a light if you have like an LED light or if you want to hold a camera or if you have a microphone or something. I don't know. Email me, chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com because what I want to do is I want to set up two crews, one to follow Noah and his switching adventures and one to follow Emma and her switching adventures as they go out into Bellingham and try to get as many people to switch to Linux as possible. And to give them the

flexibility to do that, we're going to have to have people dedicated to audio, lights, and camera, like an actual production crew, but there's no way we could actually do that, so I'm hoping people that are going, Chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com, if maybe you want to help out with that. And something we're doing kind of different than we've ever done before, which I'm really hoping

will make a big difference in how much content we're producing is, Ham, are you still in there? Hey, Ham! I think Ham left. Ham is going to be, we're going to go out and pick him up in the Lady Jupiter about a week before LinuxFest. And he's going to be staying about

four or five days, three days after LinuxFest here at JB1 to help Rekai and I go through all of the content so all of the footage. So hopefully now we're going to have another dedicated editor on hand to go through all of the clips and stuff because we always have so much content more than we can

ever process or go through. So that's kind of a big expense for us but it's also kind of exciting to have basically a game plan to what the hell we're going to actually do with all the footage we collect which is something we've never really done before. That's awesome. Yeah, so I the hell we're going to actually do with all the footage we collect, which is something we've never really done before. That's awesome. Yeah, so I feel like we're going into this fest, and maybe this might be something that works in the future,

because a lot of times Linux Fest is where we just completely try something new or big because it's local, and if we really screw the pooch, we could actually just drive to the studio, right? When you're in North Carolina or you're in Pasadena, you can't do that. So with Linux Fest, not only is it our largest, craziest, most expensive thing we do every year, but it's also where we do the biggest experiments. And so the biggest, and that's everything from like road trips to hauling crew out to hiring extra people and new equipment and switching out stuff.

So that'll be really cool. So we should have extra footage for that. So if you want to volunteer, be part of our crew. And it might just be something like holding up a light. And if you have stuff like that, like if you have really, really good high-end portable production equipment, let me know. If you don't have high-end stuff, don't let me know. Chris got standards, y'all. Yeah, I do. You know what? I do. So one more thing, speaking of volunteers, Chris got standards, Joe.

Yeah, I do. You know what? I do. So one more thing, speaking of volunteers. If you're going to go to LinuxFest, I would love reporters that go to these talks. Like I was just talking about that Rust talk. Go there. Check it out.

I'm hosting the live stream. I'm interviewing people constantly at LinuxFest. I sometimes don't even get a chance to eat, let alone go to the bathroom or go to an extra session. See you at Mike's. I know. I start getting sick sometimes. It's bad. Yeah.

Usually, Hadiyah or Angela spots me starting to get a little sick. Like, all right, he's got to take five. Hey, he needs five. And then somebody steps in. But if you're going to go to some of these talks, I would love for you to report back. Come to the booth at Linux Fest. sit down and talk to us about these. And maybe if you have a camera, you could get some video of it just to give us an idea. You don't have to record.

Don't record the whole thing. Just give me some B-roll. If you've got a phone with a decent camera on it, record a couple of seconds of the session. And then maybe I could get a way to get it on the live stream. Capture the experience. Yeah, so while you're talking about it, I could loop that a couple of times. I'm not asking to record it. Come back and report like radio or newspaper reporter style.

You come back, report, tell me about it, and we'll stream it. And we'll record those and we can put those in the shows and stuff like that if they're cool or at least the best ones. So I'm asking for some volunteers to help us with the Switch recording and production and I'm asking for some volunteers to go to some of these sessions and then report back for the ones we can't go to. So I think that's going to be – I know that's asking a lot, but it also gives you an opportunity to just be involved in the process.

And if we get a couple of people to help us, that's great. Chris can yell at you and tell you to do stuff. No. That's what you want. That's not true. In fact, you know what? Honestly, if you're super helpful, you usually end up getting invited to parties and barbecues and beer.

I mean, really, there is so much upside because, like, we are super nice to the people that help us out. So there's a ton of upside. As you will discover, Wes, as it is your first LinuxFest Northwest. You will see. It's quite the party. Yeah. There's things that. Yeah.

Some people should go undercover and accept Noah's proposal to switch to Linux. Yes, right? Or at least spread the word. If you know family or friends in the Pacific Northwest, have them come help us. Have them help us. Heavens forbid. And you can also help us wherever you're at, teespring.com slash heresthething. We've mentioned it.

We announced it. I launched it on last week's show. I think we've sold around 60 out of 100 right now. A hundred will probably pay for maybe me to go pick up ham or hotels. Like it's really expensive stuff. But these are awesome shirts. They got the last logo on the front, sort of classy style where a Star Trek communicator badge would be. You know what I'm talking about? Can you visualize that?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, OK. So right where the communicator badge would be at. And then on the back about? Can you visualize that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. So right where the communicator badge would be at. And then on the back, here's the thing. Do you have a minute to talk about Linux? I love that Linux is just big. You can't miss it. Look how sharp that S is with red.

It looks like you're some sort of official or something like that. We also got the hoodie here. Just an insider tip. Gray is gorgeous. It is a gorgeous kind of charcoal gray. Red is bold and gets attention. So if you don't have a red one, you should get one. Either way, people will be like just touching it.

And the long-sleeve shirts, if you have – I don't know what your build is. But if your build is similar to my build, the long-sleeve shirts can be pretty generous. This is one of the Jupiter Broadcasting ones. We have different sizes and you can get pretty generous. This is one of the Jupyter Broadcasting ones. We have different sizes, and you can get different colors. I'm just saying, depending on your... If you're a medium, you are going to get ladies with these shirts. And if you're an extra large, the way it's cut with the shoulders is still very generous

and makes you look like you have nice shoulders and still a figure. And all people will see is that big Linux right on the back. Or the gentleman. And then when they go, who's that handsome or gorgeous individual, and what is this Linux? And you start the gentleman. And then when they go, oh, who's that handsome or gorgeous individual? And what is this Linux? And you start the conversation.

So I'm just saying, here's the thing at teespring.com slash here's the thing. And you know, Wes, I know I mentioned this once before, too, but we are doing a. That's really what it looks like, folks. I mean, that's exactly what it looks like here in the studio with all of the mystique, the hat. You just want to open it, but you can't. Yeah. No, I'm leaving it like that as a tease to myself and to the hosts. Yeah, it's just there, sitting there in the living room of the studio.

We're leaving it in the box until the crew gets here. We are doing a big Linux build. I talked about it last week. I would love to know a well-built, I mean I'm talking well-built economical case that I could buy two of that hold at least probably six drives because we're going to have – or maybe four drives. Eat that storage. Yeah.

We're going to have an SSD for the OS and then probably five drives, so probably four storage drives. So you don't want RAID 1 on those SSDs, Chris? Probably RAID 0. Yeah, it's more about the speed because we're writing it. Oh, right. That makes sense. Yeah, we're writing uncompressed video. And we may, maybe one day, so if you, oh, I don't want to give away

too much. So this is a secret build. But let's just say one day I would like this to be able to support 4K video bit rates. And it's going to be running Linux. I'm just going to be running Linux. I'm just going to leave it at that. That's your hint for what these builds are. And we need a really nice presentable case that, let's say we ended up building something that was so awesome it actually showcased the features of Linux and we could take it

on the road and show it as an example of what Linux is capable of. I would like a case that is presentable to people because I want to be able to set it down on the table and be like, yeah, this is the thing we use. And I'll tell you more about it later, but just a really nice presentable case that isn't too crazy expensive, that accommodates good cooling,

quietly with a lot of drives. That's my request. LinuxActionShow.reddit.com. Look for the feedback thread for $ 138 and let me know. Get to it, JB community. I hope there's one out there because I haven't bought them yet. And Chris has zero time. Bitcoin is like up at 420 bucks right now.

So it's a good time to buy. I'm just saying. Wimpy, you have a suggestion. Tell me about it. Where did he go? I don't hear you, Wimpy. His mic has muted. He linked to a link in HP.

Oops, there he's back. Go ahead. Go ahead, Wimpy. Yeah, they're end of life now, but I've got two of the HP ProLiant microserver G7 N54Ls. ProLiant Microserver G7 N54Ls and when I bought those they were

about 150 quid because you got a rebate on them, it was quite good value and I've got five drives in there one VFS and four in a RAID configuration, they've also got an eSATA connection on the back

and I've had a four bay e-sarta drive hanging off the back of one of them in the past as well nice so if you want something that's low cost but they're a proper case you know they're a proper pro grade case you know with proper fixtures and bolts and they look the business and they've got the blue hp light that comes on the front i like them so they're cheap they're not super powerful but i've got i can get um a hundred um mega second write speed through my raid array and that's spinning discs i uh you were sick last week you had to you had to. I did. But I teased it a little bit. So I'm financing personally the hardware. So I had to buy it from Newegg directly because I only – really I don't have any money to my name except for – This is liquid and Bitcoin.

Yeah. And so I got to spend Bitcoin to buy something and Newegg sells directly. And if you buy directly from Newegg, you can use Bitcoin. So what I did, Wimpy, just super recap, so people don't have to go back and listen either, is we have a big build project. We're going to switch some internal functions over to Linux. And so we needed six core processors and like 32 gigs of RAM.

And so all of that is we're going to assemble that, deploy Linux on it, and then put them in production and make some series of episodes out of it. So you've got the motherboards and the processes and stuff. You're looking for cases. Yeah. Yeah. And I figured I would wait again until Bitcoin kind of creeped back up. It's creeped back up to the 420 range.

Get some good value there. Yeah. And so if there's a nice case that's not crazy expensive that's sold by Newegg directly. I just linked in the chat, Fractal Design Define R5 is awesome and it's $90. Oh, I've looked at that before. The Fractal, huh?

It's very understated. You can also get a window version, too, if you want. I don't really want a window, no. You know what? I really think... Check out the first link I sent. It's got like a more marketing thing so you can see like

all the ridiculous amount of bays it has. And it's got support for like extended GPUs and stuff. Extended? So I would really... Is that a 3x5 drive? That does look classy. I'll give it that.

Classy is actually maybe a good way to go. I actually have the R4 of this, and it's awesome. Kind of want one now. I think what we're going to build is going to be something unique in media broadcasting, and especially online media broadcasting. It would be neat to turn this into like a – to do it this way and turn it kind of into a recipe. I think so too. Right?

Here, get this. Here's it kind of into a recipe. I think so too. Right? Here, get this. Here's the software. This is awesome. You can remove the bays and put them in different configurations. I've seen that. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that is really cool. Boy, that does look like a really nice case.

And that's on Newegg? Yeah. All right. I will check that one out. And I will put a link to that in the show notes if you guys want to check that one out too because that does look really cool. And there is also YouTube reviews coming in. Yeah, and so I would love – I would really love when we're done to have something that – I don't know how we would publish it. But basically it would be a recipe like you said or – it's difficult, Wes, because it literally changes every three to six months.

Well, of course. So I don't know exactly how to work it, but almost something that you could reproduce yourself and then sit down and accomplish a lot of what we do using all open source tools. I don't know yet. We'll see. But anyways, and I might be jumping ahead too, because one of the things is, one of the reasons why I'm being kind of secretive is we're going to build it and see how far we get.

See what we have to work with. Yeah, and we're going to try to push it as far we get. See what we have to work with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're going to try to push it as far as we can. And so I'm really excited about it. And that's why, you know, that's just like part of what we're doing. Like that's not even really Fest related, but since everybody's out here, we're going to take advantage of it during Linux Fest and get everything done at the same time.

It's really cool. Oh, I'm excited. I am too. I am too. So, yeah, okay, so the fractal design stuff looks pretty cool. I'll excited. I am too. I am too. So yeah. Okay. So the fractal design stuff looks pretty cool. I'll put a link to that in the show notes and let me see where was the, oh boy, we got YouTube videos too. I'll put a link to the YouTube review from, from hardware Canucks, hardware Canucks in the show notes as well. Okay. Any other closing

thoughts from the moment before we wrap up guys? Hmm. Oh, you hear that? Could you imagine? Could you imagine you're sitting like at your local library at a Linux meeting and you ask that question and nobody actually said anything? That never happens. There's always some guy who's got something to add. Well. Hello, some guy.

Actually. Are you guys serious? Are you serious? Or are you just joshing with me? Because that's... On the other hand... Oh, no. Okay, all right.

Okay, very good. Very good. Before you go. Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, uh-huh. The thing is... Here's the thing. Oh, no!

I almost forgot. No, I'm kidding. Here's the other thing. No, I'm getting this out of here. I'm cutting you guys off. I almost forgot. No, I'm kidding. Here's the other thing. No, I'm getting this out of here. I'm cutting you guys off. I almost forgot. That brings us to the end of this week's episode of Linux Unplugged. The show that never ends.

We just got trolled there. I know. By our own mobile room. We still got Poe Show coming up. We still got it. It's still never going to end. All right. Well, thank you for joining us.

Hey, check the calendar, jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. April is a crazy month. You never know if things change. I don't know. Hopefully not. Hopefully things just get even better. But check it out at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. April is a crazy month. You never know if things change. I don't know. Hopefully not. Hopefully things just get even better. But check it out at JupiterBroadcasting.com slash calendar where we convert it to your local time zone because that crap seems to be hard for everybody to figure out.

JBLive.tv is where we do it live. LinuxActionShow.reddit.com is where you go to give us feedback. And you can also send me an email about any of the stuff I just talked about, Chris, at JupiterBroadcasting.com or at ChrisLAS on Twitter. It would be even better. See you next week. I just want the new LTS with the new Plasma desktop. That actually, there's no way I'm the only person that wants this, right? Sounds nice.

It sounds like the new 16.4 LTS, which is damn near release. I know like a week or two after it's out, it's going to be available. I grok that. I want to try it now before release. I understand that if I wait two weeks. But here's the reason why is I'm setting up my machine now, and if I like it, I don't want to reinstall. I don't want to worry about this later. Yeah, you want to test things out, feel the water.

I'm going to do the review, and if I like the desktop, that's going to become my new permanent setup. So I don't want to wait two weeks after the release because that doesn't really work for me for this particular use case. It doesn't really work for me for this particular use case. And what bugs me about it is, again, I'm not trying to make this an Archibuntu thing, but on Arch, this problem literally does not exist. Yesterday, I had Plasma 5.5. Today, I have Plasma 5.6. Nothing else has changed.

Like, it's not a big deal. I didn't have to change my release of Arch. And it's so refreshing. It is so refreshing to know that it just, when they have it in the stable repo, which was like a week afterwards, I got it. Yep.

There's probably other distros that make it just as easy like that. OpenSUSE is about to release their new builds. Probably like a couple days or so and then people already have installed we'll just update and get it right yeah yeah that's beautiful that's beautiful that's all i'm asking for they keep everything the same name so it's like plasma 5 dash desktop so regardless of what version it is it gets updated yeah five yeah five six one's already out on arch which is – and so because what I've done is I've – so when I – I have not reloaded the Apollo since I got the factory image.

OK. Which came with 1510 and a couple of updates to support the trackpad. And I just wanted to review the machine for a while as it comes from the factory. And now with 1604 getting here and Plasma 5.6 and all this, I've decided to reload the Apollo and try a few different things out. And what I would like to do is land

on a final installation for the Apollo that I just, I run for a while, and I would like to try to run it for a couple of years. I'm trying to find an installation that will be a multi-year installation for me. That's quite the task. Yeah, I know. So it's either got to be 16.04 with Snap packages and Docker containers. So you can run up-to-date things.

Right. Or with, and the other thing is I want the Neon repos because I always want to continue to get an up-to-date Plasma desktop. Yep. Which is, this is lining up to be the perfect solution for me because all the pieces are beginning to be there. which is this is lining up to be the perfect solution for me because all the pieces are beginning to be there. But the last thing that I need to be able to do is I need to be able to keep it updating constantly, keep it updating, always rolling, always going, right? And just for the desktop, just for some of the core applications.

I think 6.0.4 can do that. I know I can do it in Arch, and I know I can go for multi-year installations in Arch. Yes. This will be the first multi-year Ubuntu installation for me in a very, very, very long time. There was a period of time where I was like four, five, six upgrades deep in an installation. Wow. It probably wasn't six. It was probably like four.

It was a long time ago, though. And I have not been, I have not stuck with an Ubuntu, with the exception of a server installation, for a long time. So I really would love to pull this off because I would love to demo that installation during my review of 16.04 in LAS. But to get there, I've got to be able to get

5.6 installed now. So my thought is maybe I will try installing Kabutu 15.10 with the Plasma desktop, right? Get it just how you like. Upgrade to Neon and then upgrade from that to 16.04. Interesting.

I kind of like to watch that. I think it would be the perfect blend because you still see a lot of stuff released for Ubuntu. Yes. Quote, unquote. Like anything you go download these days, anything that requires a download. It has Linux support. Yeah. Yeah.

It's pretty much you're going to get an Ubuntu package. If you're lucky, you're going to get 32, 64-bit options, right? And they're DEBs. Maybe an RPM. Yeah, and then if there's somebody who actually knows Linux users, there's also probably a TarGC. And then that's really something. And that TarGC will have both 32 and 64 builds in that thing, and it's a big download. So that's the software distribution on Linux right now.

And the reality is, as somebody who is trying to understand things from an end user's perspective, and also as somebody who wants to sort of sometimes jump in on some of those commercially supported applications, there are advantages to having a machine running Ubuntu. Because that would be my machine I'd try it on. Oh, okay, this is an Ubuntu thing? I'll go try it on the Apollo. And, like, it makes a lot of sense. Plus, you know, for games or whatever, whatever. It makes sense to have an Ubuntu because that would be my machine. I'd try it on. Oh, okay, this is an Ubuntu thing. I'll go try it on the Apollo. And, like, it makes a lot of sense. Plus, you know, for games or whatever, whatever. It makes sense to have an Ubuntu machine.

And if Snap packages can make it possible for me to get new apps on an older installation, this is really something I'm willing to give a shot because I think it would be beneficial for – boy, that's loud out there. I think it would be beneficial for the shows. Did you ever look into doing the Tumbleweed option with KDE Krypton or GNOME Next as the desktop and then using OpenBuild to get your apps? Yeah, you know, the thing is, is for me, I don't particularly enjoy using SUSE. I think it's really a fantastically well-engineered distro with a lot of really good technology around it. But I had a dozen, maybe, maybe more SUSE Enterprise servers and SUSE Enterprise desktops that I've managed in the past,

and I used SUSE throughout when I did that. So I spent some time with it, and a lot has changed. You know, Zipper looks like a pretty competent tool. But I also find myself often getting a little overwhelmed working with it, especially some of the tools and stuff. And so with the way I look at SUSE, like any of the Tumbleweed or Leap or whatever, is they seem to be on a pretty good track and they seem to be pretty sharp. So I bet sooner or later those things that I find rough will probably be smoothed over.

So I just kind of keep an eye on it. But for me, it's not really what I'm either going to go with an arch or a fedora or an Ubuntu installation. Not really likely to go with anything else. Maybe Debian rolling. Maybe, but probably not well i mean i wouldn't go debian rolling more than open susa because debian rolling is more like you know untested stuff like they're tested but yeah it's probably something based off debian, too. I like Debian. That's why I say Debian. I really like Debian. So I just, that's why I like Ubuntu, actually.

Because I like Debian, and then Ubuntu got it better. So, hey-o. OpenSUSE's Leap is really interesting because they said there was going to be not very many releases or whatever for the back end. They're going to do, like, you know, once a year type thing. And they've implied that in the beginning. They've already got updated to Plasma 5.5 for Leap and Plasma 5.6 is going to Tumbleweed pretty soon. What they mean is that the underlying structure,

stuff like SystemD and the kernel are not going to be updated on a regular basis, like, you know, like a weekly or whatever. But the desktops and the software that rides on top of that can be updated on a regular, pretty fast basis. What I'm referring to is what they actually said of we don't have any plans, but we're looking at a one-year release cycle. I'm not talking about what they could do or what they're doing now. I'm saying what they said, they basically do or couldn't or like what they're doing now i'm

saying like what they said they basically said we don't know exactly what we're doing but now they've essentially changed to the point where they do know and what they're doing is awesome so it's basically just a uh a for the core system it's like a slower version of tumbleweed at this point right um there is i don't know if you guys know if anybody knows which one i'm talking about core system, it's like a slower version of Tumbleweed at this point. Right. There is, I don't know if you guys know, if anybody knows which one I'm talking about, but there is a couple of,

there's a thread on R-Linux or somewhere where R-Brown is answering a lot of people's common questions about OpenSUSE or Confusions. Do you know which one I'm talking about where he talks about software? He's actually doing it, he's doing it in both the it in both our Linux and Linux Action Show subreddit. Yeah, but there's one that's just really recent, the last couple of days. Is that what you're talking about?

Both of them. He's doing it on both. He made an article about what's good about OpenSUSE and stuff like that. So it's kind of like those threads are devolving from that article. I think what I find fascinating about the threads is not any one particular specific confusion or problem, but just how brilliantly they demonstrate how complicated some of the systems and tools are in the distro. There's so many things in there where his response is, well, that's not really the way we recommend people do it.

Or we've never actually documented this to be the way you should do it. We've never actually stated this. Or that's the way we used to do it. But now there's a lot of that. There's just a lot of ways of doing a few different things in there. Those threads, I think, I think R. Brown maybe gets, he gets, they are so focused on the technology and the engineering, but they're not zooming out and actually listening to the meta thing that people are saying. The bigger thing that people are saying is that it's too complicated. It's too confusing.

You guys are still – you guys are talking about Tumbleweed and Leap, and I'm still grasping to fully understand it. I mean I do understand it, but I can quickly get them confused. I can quickly misunderstand. Like, Wes, right now, not to put you on the spot, but right now, if you wanted to get KDE 5.6, would you install Tumbleweed or Leap? Tumbleweed. Because that's the rolling one? Yes. Okay, I think that's the one I would say, too. But I could get it in Leap, too, right, Rotten?

Not yet, no. Okay, you see, I don't follow. But I don't know. Even though they just talked about it, I still don't follow it. And, you know, I don't know. I mean, I know I started to complain about Ubuntu software management, but this is very confusing to me, too. It's just the stable and tumbleweeds the rolling. Right, right. Still, though, I don't know quite to understand what to expect from which when it comes to, like, well, if I want 5.6 today, I'm sure a few Google searches would resolve it for me.

I'm not saying it's an impossible question to answer. What I'm implying is that it's still just a little confusing and people only care so much when what they already have works well for them. And so if it's too – if the on-ramp is too much of a climb, I've got other stuff to do, I think is what a lot of people feel and think. Well, if you wanted to get 5.6 right now in OpenSUSE, it's just install Tumbleweed and activate Krypton, which is the next version, so you get to use the beta stuff

before it's officially released as builds. So it's still not like it's untested stuff, but it's kind of like... Would that mean that I would then get 5..7 or like 5.6.1 before – No, you'd get 5.6. You'd get 5.6. You get the continuous branch of 5.6 until KDE releases their latest version or like the latest betas of the next build. So you'd get 5.7 at some point with Krypton, but it wouldn't be like immediate.

OK. And Heavens is also pointing out a blog post over at news.opensouza.org that talks about the different choices for KDE. I mean I understand. I do get it. But at the same time, like it does take – it takes – I know this sounds really – this is the problem is I think they underestimate the cognitive load that just keeping track of what the hell they're doing takes. And I know they're like, oh, that's – it's really simple. It's simple to them because you're the guys that dreamed it up. That's why it's simple to you.

Use it every day. And if you look at the threads, he's so good at actually specifically addressing the questions and stating how he should do it that I don't know if he's grokking the overall issue there. That's just my impressions from afar. I'm going to kind of give them an excuse on we are used to following how Ubuntu does it. And Ubuntu is somewhat similar to Debian. And other distros have picked up names that are already used in the cycles or the way other distros cycle. So we are used to seeing that cycle pattern and it's easier to recognize.

So actually what they described in here is not that different, is that the naming conventions are not, you know, easily to correlate. So you say think tumbleweed and you use leap. And then it's like you usually you are used to having is this unstable or untested or experimental? And, you know, you did the notion of forward, you know, and unfortunately unfortunately our brain is in a way and added to that when they are coming up with the other districts which are you know dinosaurs in the distros community you're having the sensation that they have to show what they have different and they end up having to explain much more than the other district when you go and you pick up debbie and you say i picked up deb, and you maybe mention one thing, because everyone

assumes all of the rest of the luggage that Debian already built over the years. When you say, I'm going to pick up in SUSE, you kind of have to say, you know, because this, this, and that, and that, and suddenly you're explaining too many things, and it seems confusing. But it's just because of the time that they are arriving as a visible thing.

That's when people, when you say, I'm running Debbie, and they think you're running the oldest possible crap you could possibly do. So that's not the issue of the namey thing. I think it's because they have terrible marketing. They have a lot of cool technology, and just fundamentally,

the software and tools that they have are amazing. The OpenQA system is amazing and if you just if you to if you look at it and see how it works you it will blow you away but it's really hard to figure out how it works because it's the most complicated website to go through you could imagine like it makes it makes a folder structure like you know those those websites where it's just like a directory of files. It makes that seem easier to navigate because you have to know that you have to click a particular link. They have an order where you want to see a result for one of the tests. You click the name of the test, the date of the test, and you go into which package you want to see, which version of the test.

And you have to click a link for, let's say, a GNOME test. Then you have to click an icon to show a video of that test, and it's just kind of hard to get to where you're going. But once you find it and you realize that this thing is doing an automatic test, it's showing a video highlighting different elements of the test, like testing the desktop loading, running, opening applications, playing audio sounds, playing music, watching videos, and it's doing this automatically. That is amazing. So here's my – here's my kind of my thoughts on this for SUSE as a desktop, OpenSUSE Leap or Tumbleweed. Leap or Tumbleweed.

I think the biggest distro besides maybe Fedora that would benefit from XGG apps or universal app installers or however we're going to get there, it would be SUSE. Because at the end of the day, it comes down to it's really got to be dead simple for people to get software installed to do work. If I want to convince people like Michael Dominick from Coder Radio, he's doing a Linux testing experiment. Yeah, the last three or four weeks of Coder Radio, he's been reporting on his experiences of switching to Ubuntu. And he went to Ubuntu because he wants to know – he just needs a path to know how to download and install software. And it needs to work reliably because he's simply using this to code.

He's writing Android apps right now, and he just needs a workstation to develop on. And the timing's perfect because his Mac died, and he needed to pick something himself on his own, install it, and get rolling. That's awesome. And it's not that SUSE doesn't have the tools or the build service or the great software. The issue really comes down to the workflow that an average web dev might sit down. Like, we just looked at that Stack Overflow survey, a huge percentage of the developers consider themselves to be web devs.

Okay, well, if they're web devs, then they could web dev on Linux. They don't have to web dev on a Mac or Windows. But they need a workflow that is reliable and reproducible for damn near every single application for Linux they download from the web. Ubuntu delivers that right now simply by market adoption. But if XDG apps came along and you could take that one download and you could run it on Fedora, Ubuntu, or SUSE, then all of a sudden that barrier, that wall that's been around SUSE, the software availability of commercial applications, things like Sublime Text and Telegram and HeruPad, and some of

the SIP clients that we have attempted to install, all of that stuff that has been traditionally so hard to get on SUSE, even though there's all these different methods to get software on there, that wall would fall because every application would be available for SUSE all of a sudden packaged that way. And then all of the technical merits of the distribution would be way more important, right? It becomes way more important. But right now, the fundamental box you've got to check is, can I get my job done?

And for some of us, that box is absolutely checked. But for a lot of noobs out there, because that workflow is not consistent, how you get that Sublime text, how you get that HeruPad, or how you get that Telegram download, or that Google Chrome link. Because I'm a brand new user, right? When I go download Google Chrome, we watch Chase do this. He goes to the Google Chrome website and he looks for a download link. It never even crosses his mind to look in a repository or a software website. Never crosses his mind. Because he's literally been using Windows for 20 years, right?

So he goes and downloads the dev file for Google Chrome and installs it on his desktop, just like Michael Dominic did that night when he had to reload his Dell machine in the middle of the night from a thumb drive and he didn't have anybody to call on. He knew that he needed to go get Google Chrome to do half his workload, so he went and downloaded that dev file from the website, and that's an expected workflow. And with these new universal applications, we could reproduce that same exact thing. It just works. It's not ideal. It's not how I want to get my software, but that's how they want to get their software.

And until that's going to be available, I don't see SUSE getting a ton of traction because there's too much of a barrier for that kind of thing for SUSE right now. And there's lots of workarounds. And if you go post a question in Reddit, there's going to be somebody super smart that will give you the exact command or maybe two commands to run on the command line to fix it. But that's not a way to solve the problem. That's not going to work at scale. Wes, there is a big old long thing. I wish I would have printed this out.

I feel like I want to read this, but it's really long. It's from R. Brown at OpenSUSE. And he is writing here at the KDE mailing list. And I don't know if you guys have seen this. It's how to handle KDE not respecting your distro's requirements. And it's in response to some packaging issues and about GNOME releases. And I think it's really interesting. You almost don't even know the rest of the discussion to read some of the interesting points that he makes here.

He says, while I strongly agree with the sentiment that KDE should choose its own path, I think it's somewhat enlightening to consider that the competitive field KDE has to operate in. OK. email I pointed out, Katie, is the default in only one out of the DistroWatch top 10 and two out of the DistroWatch top 25. GNOME is the default in three out of the top 10 and seven out of the top 25. GNOME is the default option in all enterprise Linux distributions. GTK and other GNOME apps and technologies provide the foundation of the default choice of another four of the top 25 distributions. Qt provides the foundation of only one of the other top 25 default desktops. The remaining 11 either do not have a default or opt for our lightweight options like LXD or XFCE, etc.

Or to put it another way, GNOME and its stack is at least three times more popular with distributions than KDE and its stack. We've seen this trend mirrored even within OpenSUSE. Even as KDE, with the default option for our installer, over recent years we've transitioned from a strong majority KDE distribution to one where KDE is now used by less than 50% of our user base. Wow. Why all the doom and gloom?

Because I think it's important we be realistic about where we are before we can improve things. Doing the same as the other guys is not a viable option when they have the dominant position. They already have all the buy-in from the wider ecosystem of distributions who put them first. They can afford to make questionable choices. It seems no matter how questionable their choices may have already been,

it's not negatively impacting their adoption rates compared to KDE. KDE has to be better, smarter, leaner to compete. It needs to be easier for packages and packagers to work with than the alternatives. Easier to put together, easier to maintain, and easier to track changes. I personally think the whole Plasma application framework's QT split has dramatically increased the workload of distribution packagers here for little to no benefit for users, although I do recognize it makes it easier to develop.

Look at the applications. Are they all necessary? Does KDE need to offer an Office suite when almost everyone really just uses LibreOffice these days? Is Scrooge a worthy competitor to GNU Cache? Does KDE really need two text editors? There's a duplication even among KDE's own application offerings. Never mind when we put up against the backdrop of distributions are wanting to offer.

I think there's room for streamlining there. And I know it's painful to suggest, but right now KDE is the biggest, heaviest desktop-oriented software stack for Linux distributions. All of the competition, even GNOME, is smaller, leaner, and therefore more readily integratable into distributions. But maybe going on a diet is an option. If KDE wants to remain technically large

and continue to provide such a broad offering, then it at least has to do a better job of selling itself to distributions. In addition to the clear technical information regarding dependencies and such, distributions need clear information about why users should adopt KDE in order to parrot that to their users. What are KDE's selling points? What are the hooks which make KDE better than the rest? I fear KDE is currently making the same mistake I saw OpenSUSE make in the past by only trying to sell itself on technical merit and mostly letting software speak for itself. As I understand why, I've been saying for years that Qt is a superior platform for desktop and desktop application developments from GTK. desktop, and desktop application developments from GTK. But that being true hasn't changed how many distributions put their faith into which desktop stack first. Advertising through software capability only speaks to a very narrow market,

and problems with software quality erode that market dreadfully quickly. And I think it's safe to say that KDS had some severe problems with software quality lately. And I do not think that putting all of the responsibility of testing onto a distribution is a sensible strategy to turn that around. Is there more KDE can do to make sure its offerings are well-tested for before distributions have to find a way to make all of the parts work together? KDE needs to make it very easy for distributions to sell the premise, the promise, and the benefits of using KDE to their users. Where possible, that should be more meaningful than just a bunch of screenshots and feature descriptions.

People should have an idea of what the KDE project is trying to achieve and therefore be able to buy into that concept by using your software. Right now, I don't see much information available to help weave such a story. That's my two cents anyway. Man, that's a great post. Wow. It's really good. There's a few parts that I massively disagree with saying and it's

incredibly heavy. As far as the fact that GTK and GNOME have such a huge lead as far as users, that's totally true. Even when GNOME does incredibly stupid things, it doesn't seem to stop anything.

Well said.