LINUX Unplugged - Episode 141: 16.04 and Shut Your Face | LUP 141

Episode Date: April 20, 2016

We get a little rambunctious as we talk about Ubuntu 16.04, why not the openSUSE Build Server & the remarkable problem with Ubuntu that’s just now being solved.Plus some audio never meant for public release, updates on your favorite projects, first hands on with the Bq Ubuntu Tablet & more!

I know. Is the internet in there? Yeah, dude. They're right there. They are right there. The whole internet is in that tiny little camera. Yeah. Ham, did you want to say, Ham, come see the internet, Ham.

Ham, come see the internet. Look, it's right there. Look, Ham. Oh, really? Right there? That's it. Wow. That is amazing.

That's where you came from. Really? You came from in there. That is amazing. I know. That is amazing. Yeah. Lady Jupiter pulls you from the internet and she transitions you to the real world. That is amazing. Woo! Incredible technology. The beard only sees the internet. Incredible. Yeah. Lady Jupiter pulls you from the internet and she transitions you to the real world.

That is amazing. Woo! Incredible technology. The beard only sees the internet. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah, the internet, the internet, beard exists in both reality and the internet. Check, check.

Is this thing on? Yeah. Here's the thing. Yeah. That's like the worst thing to possibly say. Professional. Professional. This is Lennox Unplugged, episode 141 for April 19th, 2016.

Oh, welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's podcasting with a full house. My name is Chris. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. Hey there, Wes. Yeah, we have a bunch of the crew already here. Not even everybody yet. Some of them are just about to hit the air as we record this here episode, but the JB1 studios are packed and we have a packed show coming up in this week's episode of the Unplugged

program. It's here. Some of the first Ubuntu tablets have arrived. We've got first impressions from our audience that we'll cover in the show later on. We've had a bit of a Linux build disaster. We'll tell you about that. And of course, it's leading up to our Linux Fest Northwest coverage,

so it has to be time-sensitive. We'll tell you all about that and some of the shenanigans going down this weekend. And then later on in the show, we'll do some follow-up on our 16.04 review, some interesting things that have already changed since we've done that review, additional features that we didn't talk about in the Linux Action Show, and of course, a chance for our virtual lug to chime in with maybe some of the things that they have a different opinion on.

You know, just a couple of things they might have a different opinion from our review. Did you get a chance to see the review, Wes? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and you actually have 1604. We once again, we found an excuse for you to wipe your machine this week. Every week, Chris. Yeah.

It is a warm, warm, warm studio here for the Linux Unplugged show. So thankfully, warm, warm studio here for the Linux Unplugged show. So thankfully, thankfully, Wes has brought us a nice, cool brewski. This is great because Noah's been saying out of 10 all week long that he's been here. This is 10 Barrel Brewing Company from Portland, Oregon, I think, or somewhere in that area. Looks like it. And we are drinking their Sinister Black Ale. You know what I love now, Wes, is people are stopping by the IRC chat room before the show, like after Tech Talk and stuff.

And they're saying, hey, Chris, I got my beer. I got that today in the IRC chat room. I got my beer ready for Unplugged. Excellent work, everyone. I know. Aren't you impressed? It makes us happy and proud. It's pretty cool.

Now, just to give you an idea of what it's like here in the JB1 studios. So here is the 10 Barrel Brewing Company's website. Here's what it actually looks like in real life. This is what the state of, you get an idea here. You can see there's a McDonald's cup off to the right there, a beer box, which is what the beer comes in, some energy drinks, and Chinese takeout, and of course, a roll of paper towels. That pretty much sums up with the JB Studio. It is the condition of the JB Studio right now in one photo.

It is a crazy time. So you know what we need to do? We need more people. We've got to bring in more voices. More voices in my head. Time-appropriate greetings, Virtual Lug. Hello. Hello. Greetings.

Hello. Welcome. Kill the password. Whoa. What? Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.

Hello. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. This is pretty exciting. All right. This is pretty exciting. Those of you who jumped right on those pre-orders for your Ubuntu M tablet may be receiving them in the States. At least folks on the East Coast in the U.S. seem to be receiving their BQ tablets. OMG Ubuntu seems extremely excited about the news.

Joey writes, it's really here. This is the first device to offer PC convergence, as BQ has noted. That's the Spanish hardware company behind the Ubuntu tablet device. Deliveries are planned to go underway the second week of April, which means, fingers crossed, you should have your tablet really by the time that 16.04 is released. That's just pretty cool. That's really cool.

I really, really want to get one. Poby, have you had a chance to try one by now? Nope. Yeah, I have not had a chance to buy one yet. I really want to try one soon. I'm hoping maybe someone at Linux Fest will have one. Oh, that would be nice. Yeah, I think so.

But we do have a post in our subreddit from AdjunctVent, and he writes. There's pictures of it. Pretty neat. I like the artwork on the box there. That's cool. You know, the whole production quality of the packaging looks pretty nice, which I think is, you know, you don't want to skip on that. See the documentation there? There's the charger.

Nice charge indicator. Powered by Ubuntu there on the first boot. That's super nice. Man, that convergence, though. Yeah. I want to see it. Yeah. So he didn't end up, he didn't really, well, so 23 hours, 23 hours ago, here's what he

wrote in our subreddit. So he says, so far, I pretty much hate it. Can anyone find a guide for installing Arch on this thing? Oh, no, Wes. Oh, no. That's not what you want to hear. He says, the interface is awkward. I can't seem to figure out how to manage apps.

There isn't a file browser. The keyboard doesn't pop up when I need regular desktop programs in LibreOffice or Firefox. There are settings everywhere for syncing proprietary sites with social media, but nothing for own cloud. I don't know. I'm sure I'll play with it more and get used to it, but the first impressions are pretty disappointing. He says he did manage to find the terminal.

He did expect it to be a bit more functional and customizable. He feels like maybe he's being tough on it, though, and it's not all that bad. He says, for one thing, the screen is beautiful, and the touch apps that are on there are really slick, he says. And right now he's browsing Reddit and making these posts from the built-in browser. Oh, there you go. He also says battery life seems to be pretty decent, more than maybe he perhaps expected. So maybe after some time with it – And the tablet category is pretty broad from like very minimally functional to things like a Surface.

So I think it's entirely legitimate if this is not necessarily targeting at the moment right out of the bat the full-on workflow that he has in mind. But obviously it's usable for like what 90% of tablet users do, which is browse Reddit. Plus, I think we all sort of have, I mean, I'm not trying to be an apologist. So I hope it doesn't come across this way because I guess here's my qualifier. It sounds like this might be a tablet that I'd be willing to buy for myself. Probably not a tablet I'm going to buy for my kids.

Even though eventually that's exactly what I'd like the Ubuntu Touch experience to be, is the tablet my kids could use, because that seems the safest option for them. But I need something, you know, I'm willing, I mean, you can ask Noah. He's walking around the studio here. I'm a crazy art user. I'm willing to read a wiki.

You can and will set it up. I will read that wiki if I need to. And so for me, I sort of have a different level of expectations. I'm not trying to be an apologist. I'm just trying to say as a technical user, I don't mind a challenge a bit as long as I can get to a functional state where it offers some sort of functionality. I don't know. Does anybody in the mom room have thoughts on the new Bq tablet device sure i'd love to hear it uh so i i'm inclined to agree with you that i you know if i was if i was looking for a tablet for my kids today right now i wouldn't buy the

bq ubuntu tablet and i'm speaking as a canonical employee as an ubuntu user ubuntu enthusiast i've been using ubuntu for 10 10 plus years and i wouldn't buy it for them because truth be told the apps that they want are not on there and so right they they wouldn't be able to do the things they want and it would be a waste of my money because it would be sat there the the the kind of people who are likely to buy this thing are developers early early adopters, people who are going to write new apps or port existing apps or people who can cope with, you know, the janky edges here and there that there might be. Janky edges. That's a good title right there. Janky edges.

Yeah. And I'm fine with that. Yeah. And isn't that sort of the isn't that sort of the phase it has to be? Now, Popey, does that disenfranchise you a bit when you think, you know, the other guys are maybe five years into iterating their experience. They're way past the janky edges. Is it too late? The other guys that have billions of dollars and thousands of dollars.

No, I understand that they have a huge, huge tactical advantage. But my point is it doesn't alter the reality of it though. Right, sure. And, yeah, I would love for us to be more advanced down the road than we are right now i would love for us to have more apps i would love to have the more popular apps that you and i both know or the games or you know the ability to export from you know unity 3d or for vplay or all these other platforms to support us but we've got to start somewhere and right now we've got the the sum total of one tablet on the market or arguably two if you can if you count two resolutions of the same device we've got one tablet on the market so you know nobody is going to target a market that has one device with you know know, some thousands of users.

So we've got to be realistic. And so, you know, we're fine with it being developer-mostly experience at the moment and people who are willing to accept over-the-air updates every six weeks that give them new stuff, new crack all the time. And, you know, the fact that you can make the file system read-only and, you know, you could apt-get install Cowsay or whatever, Emacs or whatever you want to, if you're willing to accept the compromise that that gives you.

So there's swings and roundabouts there. It's pretty neat. There's a lot of projects I could imagine where a tablet would work before, but it would just be easier if I didn't have to deal with an Android build chain or if I can just use the Ubuntu system for a lot of that. I could definitely say if some of the supporting software got there, like in media production, and you could have a device that was both the capture device,

say it has a camera, and it has the editing software that you could maybe poke at in touch mode or you could at least review clips in touch mode. And then when you want to edit, you sit down and you get a full desktop experience. And you think, well, a tablet, that's crazy. But you actually look at devices like the latest Nexus tablet, the Pixel, or the iPad Pro.

They have extremely powerful processors and you can actually edit video on these freaking tablets. But they have a horrible desktop experience. So something that can have the real desktop. Yeah. I do want an Ubuntu tablet soundboard as well. Mr. Devlin, you have a

developer appeal. Yeah. I promise that it will be much simpler device deployment. Because the construction of applications when you're going to the other platforms right now is just full of frameworks and this and that.

And it's like the vanilla experience that you used to have back in Windows CE, Windows Embedded. It was simpler to deploy an app. Back in the Windows CE day. This is a harsh criticism. I'm not sure how to take that. No, no, no. I'm saying that this is what Ubuntu is bringing on the table that

Android, iOS kind of got away from. Yeah, yeah. And so it brings that appeal that you can make your application, it's an easy iteration and because it's an easy iteration, I'm betting that all of the applications that that get built are iterating much faster or are going to iterate much faster just because the platform has the ease to deploy faster yeah yeah uh i don't know about uh google

voice support uh i guess i could poppy are you aware of any Google Voice tricks for Ubuntu touch devices? The support for Google Hangouts lands in the browser very soon. But Google Voice, I don't know. I'm outside the UK, so Google Voice is an irrelevance to me. Fair enough.

Yeah, I guess that's kind of a, you know, you're not really, you're probably better off. You're better off. I have not been super impressed with Google Voice and I've been using it, I've been a user since Grand Central. But I bet there's a SIP client you can get for Ubuntu Touch.

Yeah, yeah, I bet there is. And, you know, yeah, I actually, I think that's probably the better way to go. Yeah, it just takes a little more setup. You know, there is an in-between step. There is a step you could take that makes sense right now, and that's our friends over at Ting. You guessed it.

Linux.ting.com is where you go to support this show. You know, I noticed on the Ting road trip I had the GSM service turned on going down US 90. Except for when I was, I think, at sort of the top of the pass, I think I had service the whole darn way. Oh, dang. Yeah, we used the Nexus 5 to do maps until the Nexus 5 started to freak out on me. I don't know what was up. So, New Egg had a

$50 off sale on the Nexus 5X. That thing is such a steal. Yeah, dude, so I ordered the Nexus 5X while I was leaving to go on the road trip. Oh, no, while I was on the road trip. And so my Nexus 5 ended up just, the battery's totally shot. You know, it's just old and stuff.

Don't let this be the wake. Right. So I just popped the Ting out, the Ting SIM out of the Nexus 5. And I went to go pop it into the Nexus 5X, pop that Ting, right? It's like, they cannot get these SIM cards small enough anymore. Like, the SIM card is tiny for the Nexus 5X. It really is. Yeah, and so I'm like, oh, what am I going to do?

My SIM card's too big. I can't pop the ting. Oh, jeez. So, you know what? Ting has thought of this stuff. Ting is an experienced mobile service provider. You can just pop the SIM one more smaller. You just pop it.

You pop the SIM one more smaller. This is all true, too. I don't understand why it's so funny because it's all true. And so anyways, I put the SIM into the phone, and now my 5X is activated on Ting. I don't know why this is so funny. Did you stop laughing, Wes? You are ruining this. Okay, all right.

I'll be the pro. I'll pull it together. Anyways, now I have my GSM Ting SIM in my 5X, and it's on the Ting network. Now, I'll tell you one thing I've noticed right away. It has two front-facing stereo speakers. I am very excited about that. Also, it feels a little bit better, and the fingerprint reader is nice. So that's my, like—

Oh, it's real nice. I've been very impressed with it. I've only had the 5X literally for an hour because I ordered it while I was on the road trip. I just got unboxed it. And it's been installing updates the entire time I have had it. But the fact that – here's what I just love about it. I went on Newegg because there was a sale and I ordered it. I never called anyone at Ting.

I never logged into the website. I just pulled the SIM card out, and I put it in a totally unlocked, totally straight Google Experience 5X. Put it in there, and now I have phone service. It took, I mean, as long as it popped. Most carriers, that would not work. It is so nice. And now I just pay for what I use. It's $6 for the line.

I just transferred it over to this device. I love it. I end up paying like $40 a month for like I use. It's $6 for the line. I just transferred it over to this device. I love it. I end up paying like $40 a month for like three lines. It's great. Minutes, messages, megabytes, they add them up. You only pay for what you use. Ting is great. No contracts, no early termination fees, and they have a great control panel if you do need it.

I could tell you all about that. But you know what I think I'm going to do? I'm going to say go to linux.ting.com. That will give you $25 off a device or go get $50 off a 5X if Newegg still has that sale going. And I think actually even the Play Store has the sale directly. You know about this? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I've been considering it.

You should do it. You should do it because I think the 5X is a nice upgrade from the 5. I think it's a really – I mean you can play with it when it's done here, but I want to at least log into it once, for goodness sake. Otherwise it won't bond with you. The USB-C, now when you plug it in, it says rapid charging. Rapid charging.

Yeah, that's sweet. So I think with that sale and pay-for-what-you-use service from Ting, this is such a no-brainer. But they have all the great devices. You can check it out from feature phones, SIM cards, all the way up. And they have a wonderful blog. I like this post about minimizing your mobile data usage in YouTube.

Ting, they're just like us. They use the phones the same way. Do you need 1080p when you're, you know, like, you probably don't need 1080p when you're on your mobile device and you're on LTE. So it's a bunch of great tips. They have some good videos posted over there, too. So just start by going to linux.ting.com. That supports this show.

Gets you the discount. You can do that anywhere in the world. Support this show. Big thank you to Ting for sponsoring the Unplugged program. Linux.ting.com. All right. So the LinuxFest Northwest mayhem is approaching. So the LinuxFest Northwest mayhem is approaching.

And I think maybe if you were watching Linux Action Show this week, you might have saw sort of the state of chaos that's caused when we do a new Linux build, which we want to get done before LinuxFest Northwest. And it is a massive undertaking. And, of course, of course, Wes, things never quite go as you planned. You can research the parts. You do your best. You can assign tasks to staff to do research for you and then buy what they recommend and then they blame you for buying it. You can do all of those things. And get blamed regardless.

But you cannot accommodate for how they build things today. Now, I could explain our woes, and I could explain our trials, but I thought maybe what we'd do is a little hot chicken dance swap first, and maybe somebody else could tell you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, next guest here. So, I got here, and there was a bunch of parts that were ordered. And we're working on building various things and trying to get various things working. And so I am kind of like a whirlwind, and I get things done, and I worry about the consequences.

You're like a wrecking ball! Yeah, I do. If I open a box, and the thing is, they could make this stuff a little easier to do if the video card just came in a simple box. But no, they have to have all this plastic around it. That's how you know it's fancy.

They've got manuals, and they've got discs, and that's all stuff I don't need and I don't care about. And so the first bit of it went pretty well, and I'm filming every part and trying to give you guys a real good idea of exactly what's going on. And then we went to turn on the computer. Now, I've built a fair amount of computers myself, and I have always built the computer. I turn it on, and it just works. Now, Rekai tells me, now, Noah, what you should do is test each individual component outside of the case. And I'm like, that sounds like a waste of time. That does sound like a lot of time.

It's a waste of time. I'll just build the computer. I'll just pay attention to it, right? It'll be fine. So I build the computer, bring it into the studio, disconnect all of Chris's nonsense that he needs to do his little podcast, plug in the computer and turn it on. No boot. So then I'm like, well, shucks.

So I take all of his stuff that he needs to do his podcast out in the living room where it's not so hot and I can see what I'm doing and plug it in out there and it's still not working. So then I start taking individual parts out. Is it the video card? Is it the RAM? So finally I get down to just the motherboard. And I read on the motherboard's website that supposedly the motherboard is supposed to be able to update from the BIOS if you plug into a special super secret USB port.

Yes, I've heard of such things. Actually, I didn't download it. I tasked the beard to do it. Beard downloads onto the USB. That's the same as I did it. They're equivalent. By the way, I was not the one that picked this stuff out. USB. That's the same as I did it.

They're equivalent. By the way, I was not the one that picked this stuff out. We download this stuff onto the USB port, onto the USB flash drive, and I stick it in, and the computer turns on for like three seconds and powers off. Then it turns on for three seconds, then powers off. Then it turns on for three seconds, then powers off. That is no good. Well, that's not updating well.

Then I'm like, well, let's just open the second motherboard, because we got two of these, and let's see if the second one is any different. Well, that's good troubleshooting. So I'm in the second one, and by this time, I'm like, well, let's just open the second motherboard because we got two of these. And let's see if the second one is any different. Well, that's good troubleshooting. So I'm in the second one. And by this time, I'm like, stinking motherboard. Video card. Power supply.

Shove it in there. Hold on. If you have, is your phone in your pocket? No. Are you going to do that to me? I can go get it. You could just play it. Of course, we'd have to beep it a lot.

Yeah. Hmm. Maybe we'll save it for another time. It's pretty bad. There's a lot of swearing, but it would be really great to beep it a lot. Yeah. Hmm. Maybe we'll save it for another time. It's pretty bad. There's a lot of swearing, but it would be really great to play it. But okay. All right. So I was less than pleased because by now it's like, so this is, of course, we always

figure to do this stuff at like, you know, five in the morning. That's the most productive time. And Rekai's upset. I didn't, what is he upset about? What? Rekai didn't throw you under the bus. I didn't throw you under the bus. Anyway.

Keep going. Anyway. Keep going. Anyway, so what I did. Oh, no. So what I did was I, what I did was I opened the second one up and realized that the second one is just as defective as the first one. Now, I'm not very happy about this entire process. And I just, you're telling me we had, we had two defective gigabyte motherboards. Like, I mean, like the first, so they were talking like, Chris, you're telling me we had two defective gigabyte motherboards. Like, I mean, like the first, like Chris, you're not going to, here's what I, here's

the message I get. Chris, you're not going to be happy. And I'm like, what? Both motherboards are dead. I'm like, I'm like, no, not both motherboards. You did something wrong. No, not both motherboards. And he's like, yeah, trust us.

We've tried it. So, and you know, you got to feel for Noah. Here, Noah. Here, let's. We've tried it. And, you know, you've got to feel for Noah. Here, Noah. Here, let's. All right. So, disclaimer. This was never intended to air. We don't have to do it.

Do you not want to do it? No, it's all right. It's all right. I don't care. Rekhi can bleep, right? Or maybe we should just say for the next. How long is this clip? It's about two minutes.

So, if you have small children around, just turn this up. I usually try to keep it pretty family friendly. Now, you've got to understand, this is like three in the morning. Five in the morning. Okay. And I have to get up and do last the next day because, of course, we don't plan this This is Saturday night. Tensions are high.

And so, and this is, there's a lot there. You know, basically, if this Linux build doesn't work out, we might end up having to switch to a Mac for this work. And that is really, I think, what is driving Noah's passion about this. Right. And so then I will climb a clock tower, and I don't want to climb a clock tower. All right, so you've been warned.

Cover your ears. Earmuffs. Put on your... Okay, let me show you why you should never buy a fucking gigabyte motherboard. You're supposed to be able to update this son of a bitch

by plugging a fucking flash drive into the white thing. What? You should just, uh... by plugging a fucking flash drive into the white thing. Hold on. What? You should just record this for the show. Yeah, I should, but I'm too pissed to record it for the show. So you notice the fan spins up, and then it stops,

and then it spins up, and then it stops, and then it spins up, and then it stops. So I have been stripping components. We ordered two of these goddamn things. And this one, I got completely assembled because I'm used to using Asus that just fucking works. And then we bought these two fucking things. I didn't buy them.

Chris bought them. I wouldn't have bought this. But now, it just bought this. Now, it just does this. They start up and stop. And so, we have researched the fuck out of them, and apparently they just fucking blow. And so they just restart constantly, even with all the components

removed. I mean, I put the RAM back in, but it fucking blows. So, don't buy Gigabyte ever. Particularly the hell is this goddamn piece of shit x99 sli it's trash total trash merry christmas so that was my not never intended to be aired but like i was like you know you... People don't understand. When you spend from 9, 10 p.m. until 4 or 5 in the morning, and then

constantly there's this threat of the antithesis of your being being the only alternative, that you get to a point where you get really driven to get something done. And then when you realize that you are being cock-blocked, not by the inability of

your operating system, which is supposed to be where the troubleshooting and problem is supposed to be. No, you are being cock-blocked by a totally useless manufacturer that manufactures something that is better suited to adjusting the height of your monitor than functioning as an entire system board to connect all of your components.

Not even very good at that. No, because it doesn't turn on. The best thing I could do with it was it was a decent nightlight. That's really what it was good for. So basically, and really, Chris is laughing, but it honestly has caused him a lot of stress and trouble because now the burden is on him to get new replacements of that. And of course, those come, and UPS is so incompetent that they managed to break one of those, kind of, sort of.

We're kind of in the process of dealing with that. And so, you know, it very well may be that I may end up ordering a third one, because I think at this point, Chris has tapped out. But until we have a chance to return all of these things, and, of course, if you've ever ordered anything with Newegg, you know that they're not as awesome as Amazon, where I can just tell them that it didn't work, and then they take it back. No, there's got to be a process, and I probably have to send it to Geekabite, and they're going to tell me that I did something wrong and try and update something, and I'm going to tell them that they can take their motherboard and they can take it back. Yeah, exactly, or they can stick it in their ear.

And then they can take that and get rid of it because I don't really want to look at it anymore. But I think when we get done, and it depends on a positive note, when we get done, I think what we're going to find is that Chris is going to have two amazing machines that are going to fundamentally change the way that we're able to do productions here in the studio. And I think it will all be worth the headache and troubles. Yeah, I think that's it. At the end of the day, it's all content. And at the end of the day, it's all content. This is a rowdy crowd.

Come on, guys. You're in my house. Hold on a second. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It should be like the whole slide. Hey, hey, hey. Okay, you know what? You have to wait. Yeah, that's... It's been crazy. It's been crazy. So LinuxFast Northwest, you guys know it's coming up. We are preparing like nuts.

I love their website. I know. It is... It just makes me happy. You know, we were... I think it was Ham that asked me on the way back from picking him up in Idaho. He said, why is it in Bellingham and not Seattle? And I think that might probably cross a lot of people's minds.

Because when you think of this area, you think of Seattle and the Space Needle I think that might probably cross a lot of people's minds because when you think of this area, you think of Seattle and the Space Needle and all that crap. Well, first of all, I think the core reason is because it's put on by the Bellingham Linux Users Group. You know, we have a virtual lug here. They have a real lug. They have a real lug there. And I think this is one of the things that's pretty unique

about the Linux community and other open source communities now as well that have taken a page from this, is they are capable of putting on events like Linux Fest Northwest, Self, Scale, and of course, a bunch of others that I don't go to as well, obviously. It's pretty impressive, though. Yeah, it really is. And so that's one of the reasons why it's in Bellingham. But it is genuinely one of the prettiest areas in the country. It is really.

I love Bellingham. Yeah, it is. Great. You know, it is truly gorgeous there. And if you have an opportunity to make it out, it is really worth it. Meetup.com slash Jupiter Broadcasting. We have a meetup page. We're going to be organizing the Switch competition, which you guys know is coming up.

Even though Emma has been. Emma hacked us last week during the Linux Action Show. It was rough. We got hacked by Team Emma. They've been out in Denver, Colorado. They've been practicing. Denver, Colorado. Should I switch teams?

Is there an opening there? You know, as you know, there's betting taking place behind the scenes here in JB. Yeah, yeah. I have a lot riding on this. I have a lot riding on this. Also, we – in today, in Tech Talk Today, we decided that if we got to a certain level of patrons on Patreon.com slash today that no one I would wear – he'd wear a Windows shirt and I'll wear an Apple shirt. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's in Tech Talk Today if you guys are curious about that. Yeah. We're really – we're looking for – we have more crew showing up tomorrow, which is pretty exciting, Wes. So there is a project out there that promises to bring LibreOffice, C-File, the KDE group, and maybe, I'm guessing, some own cloud backend code, bring it all together to give you a Google Docs and Google Apps-like experience using all Libre software. So we're going to talk about that because you and I were poking at this. Noah's been poking at this, and I want to talk about that because you and I were poking at this. Noah's been poking at this and I want to talk about it for a little bit. And it's probably something you could run on a DigitalOcean

droplet. Oh yeah. Heyo, if you think about it. You can run anything on a DigitalOcean droplet. If you think about it, you probably could. D01plugged is our promo code to use over DigitalOcean. You know, as you're gearing up for Ubuntu 16.04, you'll notice that they have new guides coming out on Ubuntu 16.04. It is a great hosting provider built on top of Linux.

They use KVM for the virtualizer, SSDs for all the drives, tier one bandwidth. They have locations all over the world. If you want to deploy images or entire application stacks or just Docker containers. Oh! DigitalOcean has got that. D-O-U-N-P-L-U-G-D is the promo code one word, $10 credit.

Now their basic rig, $5 a month. That's nothing. $5 a month. That's nothing. $5 a month? You get 512 megabytes of RAM. Oh, a terabyte of transfer, 20 gigabyte SSD because they all SSDs. And I love the fact that it is blazing fast. Even the $5 rig is blazing fast.

Like log in there and do a package update and just update the package cache and witness the gorgeous speed that you get. I love it. You know, I've been playing around with track car. It was obvious to put that up on a DigitalOcean droplet. When I wanted to convince Noah to use sync thing, you know what he does? He puts it up on a DigitalOcean droplet.

Oh, naturally. And like an animal, he just FTPs up to the DigitalOcean droplet and then lets it sync to me like some kind of animal. I hope that's SFTP. Me too, Wes. Me too. Hey, Wes, did you know that they have introduced – now, don't tell anybody. But did you know they have introduced a sign-up for the block storage program? Yeah, I think that's going to be really cool.

I might just sign up right now. Like I was mentioning earlier, they do have great tutorials now, like how to upgrade to Ubuntu 16.04, how to take it to Nginx and let's encrypt on 16.04, and go look at their new command line client to manage your DigitalOcean properties. I am so excited about that. I know. I know, me too. Drop down terminal has never been happier.

DigitalOcean.com, just use the promo code DOOnplugged. Use it just like that. DOOnplugged over at DigitalOcean.com. One word. And you can sing it when you type it in. That also, it doesn't give you more credit on the account, but it makes you feel good.

Oh, it really does make you feel good. DOunplugged. One word. DigitalOcean.com. Alright, so this week on the Linux Action Show, we had a candidate that we bumped. We were going to talk about this online LibreOffice thing that exists.

It's called Open365.io. Obviously, I take on Office 365. It says create the first open source cloud with LibreOffice Online. LibreOffice Online plus C file plus KDE. KDE? Yeah, yeah. It promises to bring Libre to the online web space. Oh, you know what I got to do?

I got to hook up the audio. Well, you don't really need the audio. You can hear the audio in the background. So tell me, Wes, though, when you look at that, does that remind you of OwnCloud a little bit? It really does, yeah. Yeah, so I'm thinking they must be using some OwnCloud on the back end. They're using C file for the file distribution.

Now, I know, Noah, you and I were looking at this, too. What were your impressions of this sort of online LibreOffice thingy? You know, my thing is that I've actually been excited about Office 365 simply because it runs perfectly fine on Linux, and so the dorks that insist on using Office products that don't want to use a real Office suite, then I have a solution for them. But the more that I use things like Giggly Docs and the more I use things like Office 365, I find myself thinking, you know, for certain collaboration things and for certain, you know, I just need access to compose you know, to compose a document a little bit more than what, you know, a traditional note-taking application offers. That is the kind of time where I really want, would like to have a cloud-based office suite. And it's not something that would be a primary driver, but it's definitely something that

I would be using to, you know, maybe even for show docs. I mean, probably not because there's probably not markdown support. But certainly if, you know, you and I were collaborating on a letter a couple days ago, and that would have been really useful to be able to have this, you know, all this thing composed, and you can make edits and I can make edits and stuff like that. We can keep, you know, the rich text formats and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah, and not having to have Google Drive would be nice.

I think what I find sort of interesting about this and also sort of off-putting at the same time is it clearly seems like you're bringing a QT application or something like this into the web browser. Yeah, that's weird. Like it's got the full regular menu. It's got a file menu, an edit menu, a view menu. Like it's LibreOffice embedded in the website. And I guess what strikes me about that is – Look at that though. Yeah, it does seem very functional.

It does seem very functional. But what strikes me about it is it doesn't seem forward-facing. It seems like it's sort of – It's definitely what we have now. It's not trying new things that work with – Yeah, and I mean not to be this guy. But if I have my bq ubuntu touch tablet this doesn't really look like it's going to work in that it it it feels a little bit like

bringing a another desktop environments application over to say your desktop environment just something's quite not quite there about it. Giggly Docs, Zoho, and others, they feel like they should be online document editors. That feels like you've taken a web desktop application and integrated it into own cloud and called it something new. The own cloud stuff looks like it's web, but you're right. Once you start editing something. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm curious if anyone in the Mumble room has had a chance to look at this at all and if you guys have any opinions on it because it's been getting some press coverage recently and we've been debating whether to cover it in the shows or not.

Yeah. I don't think anybody's really played with it in our community. But Noah and I were, you know, one thing that really jumps out at me about it

is if I could self-host it, I probably would prepare the show most of the time on my desktop device anyways. Yep. I mean, that's the easiest. So if I could self-host it, you know, we switched over to pretty much using SimpleNote, Noah and I, to prep LAS. And it just gives a simpler, cleaner, faster environment.

And we both prefer having a dedicated desktop application to do this. So that's one of the things is I guess I'm ready for us to move beyond cloud integration, meaning it's something that's embedded in your web browser. And I think, okay, I think I'm getting to the core of what bothers me about this. I think this is a great idea, and I'm really glad they're doing it. But when I get to the core of what bothers me about it is I'm ready for all of the features of cloud integration and syncing to be just part of a desktop experience. I want something like SimpleNote and Chrome Web Browser that seems to be fully in sync with a backend cloud service,

but the front end representation, the way that result is displayed to me is a native application that looks right in my desktop environment. And I don't want to have to run a runtime of my browser. I don't want my browser to become my runtime. And if that even means that things like Electron Project sort of hide all of that from me, but they still accomplish that, well, okay. I'm going to try to build my next rig with more RAM. I mean, I'm ready for that. Let's bring it. But I want it in a desktop experience, not crammed into a web page. And I think that's kind of where this gets. With all the desktop integrations and full support for drag and drop. And native speed.

Native speed. It launches as fast as my SSD can feed the bits to the CPU. And as fast as that can be blasted to my screen, I don't want anything in between that. And I want it to come as fast as possible because honestly, that's why I buy a new computer. That's why I build new rigs. That's why I consider playing with the Linux scheduler. That's why I want to do a RAM disk for my Chrome browser.

I want it to be as fast as possible all the time. You have work to get done. That's right. And so if you could make a local native application that instantly launches but yet pulls in the latest data from the web, that's like an API for a cloud service. I'm all about that. And that's the perfect sweet spot for me. Mumbaroom, any thoughts before I let Noah jump in with his thoughts?

All right, Noah. They don't have any thoughts. Do you have any kind of closing thoughts on the way that – because I know one of the things you and I talked about is well it kind of looks like they've just take LibreOffice and put in a web browser but I have a sense that probably doesn't bother you. It doesn't bother me because if you think about it that's I mean really that's what we look for and

that's the that is the very essence of open source. Somebody created a really good cloud based web browser system which is own cloud somebody created a really great office suite that's LibreOffice and somebody took A and B and combined them together to make Office 365 and made basically a patent infringement calling it Open365.

And they'll probably have to change the name. But the great news about that is... We'll report on it then. Yeah, right. But the great news about that is that we have essentially... We've taken two great open source projects and combined them. If that's in fact what they're doing. And really, I don't really care how they're doing it. But even if nothing else, the fact that we have the option, at least I can tell clients when I tell them you should switch to LibreOffice and they go, well, I'm really into the Office 365 because I like doing everything on the web and in the cloud. And that's great.

And it's backed up and accessible from home. I have an answer to that. Your clients sound great. That's about what they sound like to me. And it's better than Google. I don't have to ask. I don't have to tell them. You know how unprofessional it sounds to me to walk in and say, I have a great solution for you. Let me show you how we're going to do it. This is how I tell people to do it. What I'm going to recommend to you is I think you should

go to gmail.com and sign up for a Google account and use the build. That just doesn't sound like that is not that's not providing a solution. And the other problem is I have zero control. It's not like Google works with me to say these are the things that are upcoming. So, by the way, make sure your clients are aware that this menu is going away or that menu is coming. That's a great point because even when you're giving them Google Drive and Google Docs and a Google Apps account if you're through business, what you're really saying is, even though it's easy, here's another service you need to manage. Here's another service you need to pay. Here's another thing you need to keep track of users on

so that way you're not paying too much. Here's another thing X, Y, Z. And when you come at them with, here's an implementation as a service provider that I can give you that is an entirely managed package, you write me one check a month, I take care of all user management, all features, all security updates,

all integrations. Where do I sign? Right. And you maybe if they allow you to host this, you could do that on your own. So that's a point well taken, Noah. It'd be interesting to see if it sees deploys too or something where they may be paying too much for like the

365 hosted in the secure data center where you have like really secure documents and you need you want the features of 365 but you need it to be internal to your LAN you know I wonder uh North Ranger could this be something that local ISPs and different people in this space could come up and say hey yeah you've heard of Google uh but what about this and they could sell it is that kind of what you're thinking North Ranger yeah from what you've just, I think back in the day when you used to sign up for an ISP, it was your local ISP. They offered you email. They maybe offered you a shell account. So maybe it's not the actual ISP that you have because apparently today's ISPs

are more interested in bundling a phone and a TV with you. But let's move ISPs more to like a VPS provider where you not only have email, but, oh, by the way, we'll host your sync account or your calendar or your photos. And, you know, use, I'm not saying you have to use own cloud, but something like that where you can host it yourself, but when you go offline or whatever, your ISP can have the canonical copy, so to speak. That's actually an interesting idea and also maybe a great way. What I would love about that kind of business is it's a way for open source to get deployments. It's a way for a company to make money using open source software. And then that means fixes are starting going upstream. Bug reports start coming in.

Yeah. And it doesn't answer all your security problems. But at least then your ISP is someone you pay. It's in their interest to help you out. So it should at least, you know, they're not necessarily doing all the kind of data mining that someone else might be. Now, shots were fired in native versus web apps. Rotten, do you want to close out the thought on just commenting on that? Well, I just wanted to point out that a lot of the times the web apps actually look really nice.

And I don't really care if it's native or not as long as it doesn't look like garbage. So if it's going to run like an electron thing, I'd prefer it not because it's not going to be as fast. But at least they look good and they run well, so I'm okay with it. What happens – what do you do, Rotten, when you have two applications that are web apps and you need to move back and forth them and you're moving data back and forth? Now I've got – I think that works if you're using one or maybe even two, but when you start to get a plethora, when I had OwnCloud and I had Evernote and I had Google Docs and I had whatever else, you start to get like four or five different of these web apps open. Wunderlist, for example. Moving between them is almost like I start to eliminate the ability of the operating system to manage my Windows. So I don't have, you know, along the side of Unity, I can't switch between those applications.

Now I have to rely on the tab switching inside of the web browser. Well, to be fair, there are window managers that can do that. But I would say that that example is not very good because all of those essentially accomplish the same thing. So I think the issue is that you are using multiple – like Evernote and Google Docs and stuff. They're basically all the same. So if you were using a to-do list editor or a to-do list web app and then a web app for like Telegram, those would be completely different things. You wouldn't have to have that. But I actually do kind of synthesize.

I do actually kind of connect with what Noah is saying because I have found myself like ripping tabs off all the time. Oh, yeah, me too. This tab goes on this monitor now and I'm going to – I'll put this tab over here and I'll shrink this tab. Or floating them on top. Yeah, it's getting to be the point now where – and the other thing I find myself doing all the time now is right now I have three tabs pinned. I always have at least three. Yeah, pin tabs up. Yeah, it's getting to –

Three right there. And I start to feel like they're forcing me to live a Chrome OS existence a little bit. Well, they kind of are, but there's also solutions in Linux native applications that can provide a direct connection with a window manager, for example, instead of having the tabs being splayed out and then you have multiple different Chrome things that are all connected in the same group.

There's a couple of different options, too, that I've used to basically give a dedicated process to each web app. Right. We talked about that last week with Apricity. And that's nice. That works. For one, Apricity is actually using something that's still using Chrome. Right. Created by Peppermint OS, which isity is actually using something that's still using Chrome. Right, yeah, yes. Created by Peppermint OS, which is interesting. You should check that out.

But the reason I was talking about is that Chromium's web app solution is terrible. You have one session that is still, like, every single web app you make with Chromium or with Ice, it's still one session. So it's not organized at all. It's not separated. It's all just in massive. Yeah, I've run into that problem before. So you're still connected with that group. If you look at Epiphany and Midori, both of those have web app built in. So they're all separate individual sessions for each web app you create.

There's a web app manager for each one of those. And there's also, Ubuntu has their own browser that you can use that was created for the Ubuntu Touch, but also works on the desktop. And you can do the same thing and create different sessions, so they become real processes. It's also interesting to

see a lot of different open source wrapper applications, like, what's that Slack one called Scud or something? Right, yeah. And then Noah and I were playing with a messenger application that is just a web app and what it does is it uses

one application and multiple tabs to integrate every messaging service from Slack to Telegram to WhatsApp, everything that has any kind of web, Skype, anything that has any web app, all in one application. And that's kind of interesting because then it takes care of notification badges and stuff like that for you for all those different services and breaks it off into its own process, which is kind of interesting.

There was one that was created a couple years ago for Linux that was awesome, and then it was discontinued. It was called Fogger. Yeah. Did you ever try that was awesome, and then it was discontinued. It was called Fogger. Yeah. Did you ever try that? Yeah, no, I did. And that's sort of why I've tried to recreate just using the built-in Chrome thing. But yeah, you're right.

It's not the same. Yeah, and sometimes they'll use GNOME Web for some stuff. If they made the sessions properly, it would be great. But the fact that if you create a Netflixflix session if you open it in chrome or you open it in the web app it's still the same thing so you're still in the same session so you can't have like for example if you have two different twitter accounts that you want to open up twitter you can't log into separately with the chromium solution but if you did it with like epiphany or you did it with midori you can do that and And I think Midori is probably one of the best options.

Yeah. I tried Midori for a little while and I was starting to get, it eventually would run out of memory. Listen, let's class it up in here for a second. Because I want to open the floodgates. I want to talk about our Ubuntu 16.04 review. I've gotten. You mean theuntu 16.04 review. I've gotten... You mean the Mate 16.04 review?

Thanks. Nice. I've already gotten several like, geez, you and Noah really got into it kind of comments. And they don't even know the half of it. We got into it again today just out in the living room. So we got to talk about this. So we got to bring it up a notch.

Got to clear space for our discussion. So first, I want to thank Linux Academy. I want to welcome them into this episode of Linux Unplugged, episode 141. Why don't you welcome them to at linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Go there and celebrate their support of your unplugged program. By visiting linuxacademy.com slash unplugged, not only will you get their new discount that they've just rolled out, brand new pricing structure,

but you can learn more about their 2,369 self-paced courses. Instruct your major. You're going to learn something. I mean, even by accident. Accidentally learning at linuxacademy.com. That's a great slogan. Scenario-based labs are totally badass because they put you in the middle of something that's real. God damn it, Wes.

You just screwed these all up. I'm not getting blamed today. If that doesn't work, they have instructor mentoring as well. Which I think you're going to need at this point after listening to this. But they'll set you right, and you'll learn.

Remember, it doesn't matter what we say, because the music's classy. I just want you to know while this music is on that I don't hate you. I think you're wrong about Ubuntu, but we can still be friends. You can use Arch.

Yeah, except for I did back you into agreeing with me earlier. Anyways, linuxacademy.com slash unplug. Go there, learn about their great server exercises, developing Linux applications, learning about Linux firewalls and fundamentals, routing, you know, all those things. Python development, PHP, OpenStack, Docker. That's some great Chef tutorials

up there. Thank you for mentioning that. You're right. They are really good ones. Amazon Web Services, and the server is included. Oh, man. I know, right? It's great.

7 Plus Distros. It's a wonderland. LinuxAcademy.com slash unplugged. Go invest in yourself. Learn more about Linux from the basics to the advanced topics.

And they are crushing the OpenStack courses right now. Check them out at LinuxAcademy.com slash unplugged. All right, Wes. Get it out of here. It is time for us to follow up on our Ubuntu 16.04 review. 16.04.

Now, there are many things to discuss in regards to this review, and I want to cover all of them as much as we can. If you have not had a chance, it's not a prerequisite, but I would invite you to listen to episode 413 or watch episode 413 of the Linux Action Show where we did our review. And just as a background, because I don't know if I really went into this in the show or not,

but basically every machine in my life, except for that one right there, that Bonobo, got reloaded to Ubuntu 16.04. Wow. Kubuntu edition was the one I ran with the longest, and then I put the neon packages on there because I loves me the fresh neon. And I guess actually going back further, it really started the day I got the Apollo. Yep. I got really excited by what a good implementation Ubuntu Mate 15.10 on the Apollo was.

And then as soon as it felt reasonable, I brought that up to 16.04. And then I started bringing all my other machines to 16.04. One by one. Yeah. And so I spent a real solid month in Ubuntu, which for me was a big transition again going back. Yeah, I hear you there. But part of the reason I wanted to do it is because I really wanted to spend – when you just do it for a couple of days,

you get totally overwhelmed by all the little rough edges that are just different. Just because it's not comfortable and familiar, it just – it feels abrasive. But if you actually spent time with it, you learn, oh, yeah, I do it this way, this now. Learn the true character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I really wanted to give it its due. And so when we walked away, I walked away with some impressions that I had reflected on for that whole month. And those definitely took the stage of the review, I think, the bulk of the stage.

But there's a lot of things covered in the 1604 review. And I was curious, Wes, if you – why don't we do this? If you'd be up for this. Let's get your impressions sort of at the top. Then let's go to the Mumble Room, get some of their updates and follow-up and their impressions. And then towards the end of this shenanigans, let's talk about some of the things that have changed already or fixed already since Sunday's episode of the show. So like a full spectrum coverage. So as follow-up to our 16.04 review, Wes, what are your sort of out-of-the-first-gate impressions of this brand-new LTS release?

Okay, so for context, both in work and kind of at home, I both skipped at work the 14.04 release, and then I used that at home, but I didn't use too much of 15. So I guess this is kind of a this is kind of like for for you a huge upgrade yeah it really is a huge upgrade that's an interesting perspective so you've been stuck at 1204 for years and a majority you know i use some 14 to 4 i do have like one system at 1510 but but yes there's a lot of 1204 and so there there's so much new and so much i'm excited about i mean mean, I've used Ubuntu on systemd before, but I just love doing system control status and just seeing that breakdown.

I'm really excited to see it at servers on work. Now, did you play with the in-between ones? Yeah, I played with them a little bit. Okay, you just didn't use them widespread. Yeah, I didn't really deploy them anywhere. And I'm kind of in the same boat. I mean, I traditionally just stick to the LTSs. Right.

And I'm kind of in the same boat. I mean, I didn't, I traditionally just stick to the LTSs. Right. You know, and so, and it seems like a good point right now where when, once it's out, it'll have fresh packages for quite some time, and then you have the snap packages, and you have ZFS right there. Have you played with ZFS on 16.04? I haven't on 16.04, but I've used it, you know, building it myself or loading it myself. Okay.

Installing it third party on earlier versions. I'm really excited also about LXD 2.0 which just came out. I like LXD. I like that model and Ubuntu supports it very well. Do you use a lot of other desktop environments other than just Unity?

I almost never use Unity really. I'm trying it out right now. It's not bad. The animations are pretty slick. I've seen the touch-ups from what I'm trying it out right now. It's not bad. The animations are pretty slick, and it's definitely, I've seen the touch-ups from what I'm used to, you know, especially seeing it work a lot of the deployments with Provo before, so. So, you know, Unity's nice,

but, you know, normally I use Cinnamon a lot for Linux management, or I use a tiling window manager. But I'm really excited for just having, like, I feel like 16.04 will be a release I can deploy in almost every part of my life. The places where I don't need first-hand management or where Arch doesn't make the most sense, you know, maybe for

less minimal stuff, but anywhere where I just need a general Linux where I know that the packages will be what I need, they'll be a way especially with Snap packages, there'll be a way to get the software that I want and I can figure out the way I need. I'm really excited. Yeah, that's sort of my takeaway too. And I kind of wanted to – I joked a lot during the live stream.

I actually am kind of curious on Popey's take for it because – not just because he works with Ubuntu and works at Canonical but honestly because he's obviously been following this for a long time and has good insight on this. And I wonder, too, if maybe these are some of the elements that he's excited about. And I know I've kind of asked him to dance it like a monkey before on this topic, but I know that the Snap packages are sort of the weakest area of coverage in our review, and it's sort of, I feel like, the biggest long-term ramifications of 16.04. And so, I don't know, Poppy, do you have any sort of take on our review and thoughts on it and maybe thoughts on the Snap packages specifically? Can't talk, Chris. I'm busy playing games on 1604 nice yeah okay you know what uh that's another thing is it is a great platform for steam games yeah i kid i'm joking um i was actually playing yeah i believe you um but uh yeah the snap stuff you know when i first heard about this a couple years ago

um i was kind of skeptical because the guy who was telling me about this was outside a hotel uh you know we'd all had an intro to what snappy was and only a few people have been involved in what it what it was going to be and i i didn't quite get it and it's only now that i realize how many people depend on things like aur in arch or um self-updating applications like chrome um and other things that just like sort themselves out and nobody nobody has to worry about it right and you know we used to think that ppas were a marvelous way to get stuff to to users but actually it's quite abrasive to get from you know i want to have the latest version of whatever atom or you know sublime or whatever whether it's free software or proprietary it's

it's quite abrasive to get from I want that thing to getting that thing. And I think Snap can make that a whole lot easier and also make it so that you can have the latest version of stuff up to date all the time on your system. And that is compelling for a lot of people. Yeah, extremely. And I know every year I talk to Frank about this problem from own cloud. And this, I'm really curious this year to say, what do you think about this? What are your thoughts on this? I know they're relying right now on the open source build service.

And so one of the things that we kept going around and around about is this seems maybe like a little bit too late, Pobi. It seems like maybe this should have come about. But if you look at the origins of where Snap packages were originally created for, there was almost no route to here without having gone through the Ubuntu phone process, right? Yeah, we learned a lot from click packages on the phone. That's click packages. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like I'll give you a good example there's a developer um who created a game for ubuntu phone called balls

and uh it's it's an sd it's written in sdl2 it works on the phone and um he cranks out a new version once, maybe twice a day. Wow. And he can just push a new version to the store, and it's on his customers' handsets or his users or whatever you want to call them, the people who play his game. He can build a new level in 15 minutes that he has to work on his game. He can build a new level, crank out a click package,

shove it in the store, and thousands of people have it straight away, right? And so that works great on the phone. But you and I both know, I'll give you a little secret, right? We don't have millions and millions of phone users, right? But we do have millions and millions of Ubuntu desktop users. So take that technology that we used on the phone to deliver applications super fast to the users on the phone and bring that to the desktop. Then all those millions of users can potentially have super up-to-date packages with all the lessons we've learned from the phone.

I do like that. I feel like it's one of those things that you won't see pay off for quite a while, though. Potentially. I mean, we're working on tools to make it easier. So, like, you know, we're all working on snapifying, we call it. Not formally. That's just like a stupid term. Not snapcrafting or...

Yeah, there's not a verb for it really. Snapping? Snapping, yeah. You don't want to snap. Yeah. So we're all working on, yeah, snapification sounds good. Sounds very George W. Bush. And we're all doing a bit of that to iron out all the kinks and figure out, you know, because every application is different and some things have different requirements.

Right. figure out you know because every application is different and some things need have different requirements right and because of our security model to ensure that one application can't stomp on the files of another or you don't get one file um you know able to access the data from another application and like send your key presses elsewhere there's the security side of things is super critical, and we're just discovering the edge cases of what each application needs in terms of security with Snappy. And so we're pushing the boundaries of that, trying to make sure that we're getting all that done so that when a developer comes along and wants to Snapify their app, it's all ready for them. Appify, their app, it's already full. This is something that I want to talk to you about because I was just arguing with Noah that one of the emails we get all the time on Coder Radio and one of the things that Mike has run into is he says, right, OK, I'm going to develop for Ubuntu. I'm going to release an app for the Ubuntu desktop for Ubuntu users, and I'm going to use which SDK, which toolkit, which backend language, and I distribute it to my end users with reliable, secure updates.

How? Okay, so if I want to distribute for Ubuntu reliably via software update, how do I do that? And just say I'm the developer of your favorite application that's available for another platform that just has decided now's the time to target the Linux desktop. How do they figure this out? They either A, somehow get it submitted to Debian downstream so it gets included in the Ubuntu repos and thus gets updated when their system updates. They figure out how to create a Launchpad account and create PPAs and publish their own repo.

They figure out how to package a dev file or pay somebody, which is a common thing that developers do, is just hire some guy or gal to package a dev file for them. And then they post it on their website, which then means you don't get to take advantage of any of the built-in package management. Check back. And so what Mike and I have kicked around a ton on Coda Radio is this is a shitty story to tell developers. This just doesn't work for them.

They can't bank on that. They can't take that to the bank. And so I think that the snap packages is probably the best answer to this and I think it answers a bigger question than we all realize is being asked. Do you agree with my sort of rough assessment, Popey? Right. And for a slow-moving free software project, there's a good argument for you should put it in Debian or AUR or wherever that hits the most number of free software developers. But that's not really practical for a lot of people

that are maybe bringing something over to the Linux desktop for the first time. Right. And that's just one method. I'm just trying to say that putting it in Debian is not inherently a bad thing. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. If you could do it,'s great right but we've seen or if you can find a debian developer to sponsor your upload or whatever the process is but we've seen recently friction in debian where an upstream developer wants more recent versions of their application in the distro, and the Debian policy doesn't allow that to happen.

Right, you're referring to the X-Screen Saver thing. Right. And so with a system where the developer is put in control of how they distribute their code, and with automated reviews and sandboxing, these three things put together means that developers are happy because they can distribute the version of their software that they're happy with when they want to. Users are happy because they get

the latest version of crack that they want. And users are also happy and sysadmins are happy because the system is secure because the apps are siloed from each other. So it seems like a win, win, win all the way around. Art Brown, I wanted to give you a chance to jump in because also, I mean, we've seen this play out in a lot of instances, but own clouds are probably one of the more prominent ones. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah. They're a pretty good example of one of those projects where, yeah, they're really – well, in the case of the Debian one, it wasn't just a case of not able to get the version in there, but also the Debian developer putting in what OwnCloud considered was an unsafe upgrade path. Right. Now, Richard, I just want your frank opinion, not even as a representation of SUSE, just as a representative of the Linux community.

Do you bang your head against your desk? Do you facepalm a little bit when you go, guys, guys, guys, we've got the open Bususa build service. It's working great. Projects like OwnCloud are using the hell out of it. Don't reinvent the wheel of Snap packages. Just put it in an open build service. Is there a facepalm moment for you or do you see it in a different light? There is to a large extent when you mix in the Ubuntu mobile thing, there's maybe a case to be made there. But I'm not sold on it, no.

Yeah, this is where our debate was going in the living room. And no, I don't know. When we talked about it, my take was – I guess I have two opinions. because Snap packages on their own right are pretty slick technology and a pretty great idea and something that I think pretty much anyone who's new to the scene, you can look at how to build these things, how to write the description file and you're going to get it. It's going to be easy. I love that a lot. And it might be familiar for how you're doing packaging things for other systems already. Yeah. Yeah.

So that I just I'm pretty jazzed about it in the big picture. At the same time, I don't want to say this in a flamey way, but if Ubuntu would have just if we could have gone if it could have gone like this, like what if it could have gone like this? Like Canonical would have been like, all right, gone like this, like what if it could have gone like this? Like Canonical would have been like, all right, we're going to go focus on mobile for a bit. So what we're going to do is if you want to worry about getting desktop software on our desktop, we're just going to hook in with the OpenSUSE build service. And we're just going to – we're going to hook in with that, and that's going to be sort of our official avenue for getting software on our desktop. And I feel like that would have been a game changer for desktop Linux

because instead of now getting packages bundled for Debian and Ubuntu out of the goodwill of the developer, it would have been a standardized method to deliver software to the Linux desktop. What guarantee would Canonical have had that the OpenSUSE build service would have kept their values and their priorities in mind? Besides the fact we've been doing it for 10 years now? Well, so I guess

what I'm asking is, you know, Canonical invented the PPA system, and for better or for worse, they have these devs that are available on the download, but at the time that that came out, that was far and away better than anything else we had had on Linux. And so I think it's a little unfair to say that because other competition has rose up around them and they are now taking those steps to advance it. I think it's a little unfair to say, well, all of a sudden, Canonical has just done it all wrong.

And I guess – No, I don't want to come across as saying they've done it all wrong because I don't agree. I think that PPAs were a decent addition. And so here's where I'm coming from on this. And just really quickly is Seuss Martin in the Linux Action Show subreddit said, sorry, Chris, no offense. Which is always – I'm about to say something offensive. Yeah, I just pissed in your flower bed.

Not to upset you. Anyways. Night trade is good. But that was not a review. More like an hour-long monologue about how bad PPAs are. And I want to stop right there. I actually think as far as PPAs go, they're not an awful system. I don't think it's that bad.

I think it was a good addition when PPAs were launched a long time ago. I'm trying to look at Wikipedia to find out the date, but they don't have it. 2009. Thank you. They certainly filled the need. Right. Yeah. This was solid in 2009.

Great idea. 2009 is too long ago now, and it needed to be iterated on continuously since then. And what happened, in my estimation, is it just didn't become a priority. And then the cloud took off, and then rapid software development took off, and people start creating entire applications that run on the web based on Node.js and plug-ins that can be completely revoked. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. And in days, they have a new web application.

And then in months, they have iterated three times. And all of a sudden, we now find ourselves in a world where unarguably OpenSUSE were the leaders, where Fedora has a very competent solution, where Arch has a crushing lead with the user repository. We now find ourselves in a world where Ubuntu is behind in this regard. I'm not saying PPAs are bad.

I'm saying that if we could have switched over to another solution by now, I like the build service just as my personal one. Yeah, works well. We would have fundamentally changed how software is distributed for Linux. The answer for developers that I talked about earlier would have been target the build service. With clear documentation, a large community, and it would have

made it available to just about every damn distro on the planet. Now, I'm very excited for Snap packages, but at the same time, I kind of feel like it's too little to, well, not too little, but it's too late to – well, not too little, but it's too late. Go ahead, Rotten. Well, I just want to say that the problem with the dev files is not necessarily the devs.

It's – we can't have – like devs kind of suck. Like if you think about it, there's, you unpackage a deb, you have three archives, and then you have another archive and set up another archive. They're kind of annoying to do. And I think anybody who's ever packaged a deb would agree with that. But the problem is that the deb files are

also a locked down structure for just the Linux entirely. The ecosystem of Linux is either stale, stable releases, or rolling super-fast releases. You really can't have rolling applications sitting on top of the stable core, because

those depend on new toolkits that are constantly being updated. So if your new application requires on a toolkit that this is not available, you're still having to pull back your... I know, that's the point. That's what I'm saying. Snap packages, you're still having to pull back your... I know, that's the point. That's what I'm saying. Snap packages, they're not too little too late because we still...

Even the OpenSoup build service is awesome, but it still has the exact same problem of the core packages not being updated. All right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Before that, the Snap is... I'm excited for the Snap because it solves that problem.

Okay, that's a great point, Rod. Let me punt this to Richard. So Richard, you mentioned in the chat room, BuildServe has been around longer than PPAs. What is your sober estimation of why it just simply hasn't been adopted then? Because it's clearly a competent platform with solid technology behind it. A competent platform with solid technology behind it, yet here we are. Fedora has Copper. Arch has AUR.

Canonical is developing Snap packages. And I guess also you've got to admit the system they've developed is more modern. It utilizes containers. It supports read-only file systems. It pulls in directly from the project's upstream build services. It's very compelling. It pulls in directly from the project's upstream build services. It's very compelling. What is your sober estimation now of perhaps why this hasn't been adopted more widely and maybe if there is some sort of perhaps modernization that now needs to take place with the build service or maybe not?

I'm curious now where you think this thing stands. Most of the features you stated have been in the build service for some time. Like, for example, refreshing the stuff from upstream. We've had that feature for so long, we've just rewritten it in 2.7, which we just released. Nice. So that's always ongoing. That's always improving. Why wasn't it adopted?

I think that's typical not invented here syndrome. I mean, if you look at most distributions, they're going to trend towards their own tools. If you look at most distributions, they're going to trend towards their own tools. And there isn't many projects besides OpenSUSE who kind of hits this approach of we're going to build our tools for ourselves and everybody else as well. Why don't you come join us? And I wish more distributions took us up on that offer. It's still open. It's still there.

We're not going anywhere. The build service is still being developed. But distributions have to get over this hump of we know best how to build this stuff. It's not necessarily true. And even if it is true, I think we can do really exciting stuff when we do stuff together. And there's only – yeah, there's not many projects that take that mindset. Popey, how important is the Ubuntu brand behind this idea? So I know one of the things that – so my fair estimation of the emails I've gotten is if I told them this is the canonical recommended path or the Ubuntu recommended software distribution path and this is the open source community solution. to solutions simply because of brand name recognition, trust in sort of a long-term investment there, and it's simply more familiar with how they expect things to operate on

proprietary platforms. And so we are saying, oh, you could have done the build service. There's AUR out there. But in reality, how important was it, do you think, that it was actually a solution from within? How do you mean a solution from within? Well, why not? Do you think there is serious technical and obviously tactical advantages to developing Snap packages versus using somebody else's solution? So Snap packages serve as a need that we've identified that developers need and that our customers want. And I'm not sure that other platforms do provide that.

I mean, it's quite obvious that other non-Linux platforms are trending towards that with the way Android and Chrome silo their things and the way the Windows App Store is going and the way the iOS App Store. Everyone else seems to have figured this out and is going in that direction. We're doing the same thing, but in the Linux environment. So when we're looking at this, do you think it's a fair perspective to say, this is a solution for the Ubuntu platform, and this is something for Ubuntu platform customers? for the Ubuntu platform,

and this is something for Ubuntu platform customers. Well, it's for our customers and for free software and proprietary developers. Sure. I'm not saying it's closed source. I'm just saying, like, it's developed for people that are in the Ubuntu ecosystem, which is based on Linux. It's not saying that there's not Linux involved, but it's simply there are people that simply they deploy Ubuntu workstations, they deploy Ubuntu servers, they have an Ubuntu cloud.

And so they're looking for things that are... Yeah, I see where you're going, but I don't see how, you know, as someone who's been an advocate of Ubuntu for 10 plus years, I don't see why I would think anything other than this is for our users and customers and developers. What else would it be for? So I actually see a bigger point in here. Okay. It's like the last part that you mentioned is like by that principle,

Canonical wouldn't use software developed by other open source projects, and they completely do. So the name is not necessarily the thing. The fact that Canonical uses for those that care about the branding would be enough. Like, Canonical says we're using OBS, then it will be enough for those that want the Canonical support on it. Because if Canonical picked it, it's because it's in line, and those that are trusting a brand name will just trust it anyways. is because it's in line and those that are trusting a brand name will just trust it anyways. I guess the problem of the lack of adoption

has to do with the strategy on the outreach the OpenSUSE has had over time versus the other distributions. Arch has a core users that they target. OpenSUSE wants to be so impartial, so generic, so to allow everyone that suddenly fails to capture a niche group that will be uh evangelist about it so because there's no evangelism about it people just think it's oh that's a nice thing and it doesn't get out of the nice thing and someone

that has evangelists and has people pushing forward the technology in terms of vocality about it will get to have the perception even if not the usage, at least the perception that it's wider. You know what? I hadn't thought of that. Wes, what do you think? Do you think maybe the reason why the AUR and things like that have more buzz is because it's the Arch user repository and the build service is targeted more to just those practical developers that want to pump out builds.

And so there's no hype machine. That is probably a good point. I mean, yeah, especially like with the AUR, you know, the users are directly involved. They're picking people to maintain the packages, not always the developer. There's the comment system. And, you know, it is a little bit harder to get involved with the build service. So that's a good point. All right, Noah, at the end service, so that's a good point.

All right, Noah. At the end of the day, here's the thing. The practical real-world implementation is it's still, if you want to deploy software on Ubuntu, it's going to be your best bet. Don't you agree? I mean, you still think, I might say other services and other systems and other projects have better technology for developing and delivering and updating software. But in terms of day-to-day practical use out in the real world deploying for clients, where's

Ubuntu at? I think that, and I think we hit on this, maybe we should have clicked on it on Sunday, and I don't think we necessarily honed in on this. But one of the things that came up in a discussion today was that I'm looking at this from a perspective of I am a person that maybe was previously using Windows or maybe I'm using macOS, and now I've come over to Linux, and so I am going to cherry pick the applications

that I was formerly comfortable with. Now, if you had somebody like myself who will be available on Linux Fest Northwest switching people to Linux all weekend, like I maybe have done, what would you say, three or four times every place we've gone and had absolute 100% success rate. If you have somebody like that, then that person is already switching you over to those Linux applications while you're on Windows, so your transition is easier.

However, if you don't have that, you boot into Linux for the first time and you say, I need my friend to help me. You download TeamViewer. You say, I need to, what was the other program I was talking about today? It was TeamViewer, and what was the other one that bit me? There's another one. It was proprietary, and I hate mentioning it all the time. VirtualBox, for example.

VirtualBox, some of those applications, they work perfectly fine on Ubuntu right out of the software center, or right off if you install from the command line, but it might take a little tweaking. You know, and another one that comes to mind, my YubiKey. YubiKey works basically right out of the box. I just plug it into my computer, and I can use a smart card reader right off of Ubuntu. On Arch, I have to install a package and configure it. Now, that's not a hit on Arch. Install a daemon and start it.

And configure the daemon. Now, that's not a hit on Arch because Arch is a configurable distro, and you know that going into it. And so there's probably somebody out there that didn't want that smart card daemon running. And so they rightfully so don't have that installed and configured by default. But I don't think it is fair to say that coming out of the gate, Ubuntu is the hardest distribution to install packages on. Unless we take it to the level of here's the entire app ecosystem. And the majority of these applications aren't going to be available on Ubuntu for a couple of years,

and they are going to be available on Arch. If you look at it from that lens, then I think you're right. But I think from the practical lens of these are the software programs that I'm using, and I'm cherry-picking a couple that come to mind because I've had problems. On a day-to-day basis, what I found is oftentimes I find myself having to tinker with Arch to get it to work, you know, for a daily use case. I think my opinion about it is sort of, I actually agree with you in some levels. Ubuntu is going to be out of the mind when they package VirtualBox, for example, or maybe let's go with your TeamViewer example, because that's a little more esoteric.

When you install TeamViewer on Ubuntu, that package maintainer made the decision. He said, hey, you know what? While I still have root permission on your service, or while I still have root permission on your Linux box, because when you executed my install script here, you gave me root privilege. While I still have that root privilege, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to start this remote listening service as root. And I'm going to go ahead and tell that to start every time your system boots. I actually think that's probably the right decision to make on a user-friendly distribution. And you want to install TeamViewer to get help.

You probably want it to receive remote connections. That's probably why you're installing TeamViewer. Right. I could also very clearly understand why the Arch Packager said, you know what? Maybe not. I'm going to do the absolute minimum thing I need to do while I have root privileges, and I'm not going to touch your system any more than I have to, and if you want to start

that daemon, you can use systemctl enable teamviewer.service or whatever it is, and you can have added Haas. I'm going to be gentle while I have root. I'm going to respect your security. Right. I can understand both perspectives. This is a wacky example, Chris. Really a wacky example.

You're implying, your implication is that someone who's packaging a dev is somehow potentially nefarious in their intent. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, but somehow an Arch package would be more respectful of the client system. Oh, no, no. I'm saying I can understand both perspectives. One is developing for end users. One is packaging, I should say, for end users. And they probably just figure, I'm going to make it a little bit easier.

And one is packaging for a Linux enthusiast. And you know what? I'm not going to make it easier for the enthusiast. I can understand both perspectives. I don't think that makes one easier to install than the other. I think what makes one easier to install than the other would be software availability and what is availability in your repository. And if I can do Packer-S install TeamViewer or Packer-S VirtualBox or Packer-S Herupad, and I know with absolute certainty that I'm getting the absolute latest version of that package and it's going to continue

to get updated by my package manager, in my estimation, that is easier than other, well, than Ubuntu. So you're saying packaging for the Linux enthusiast. You're aiming for a target that has like half a percent of worldwide pc sales if that right is that is that where you want to target or do you want to target where real people spend real money on computers that have your os on them don't don't misunderstand i completely agree if i'm going to target if i were going to release a desktop linux application that i thought would be great for web developers or people that are developing Android applications or

anybody that wants to get worked on Linux, my primary user base would be Ubuntu and I would do a PPA if I could. Absolutely. But my point is that doesn't, the goodwill of developers and how they have assembled their packages does not excuse the fact that the platform itself does not provide a better means for sustainable software. But if it wasn't for the ease, people wouldn't want AUART.

AUART is just trusting this community of people, also packaging things that you are going to trust that run exactly the correct thing. You know what? I'm sorry. My long-time experience with the community is, in whole, I actually trust the community more than I trust any individual company. And the AUR has a vote system. It

has a comment system. It has a self-vetting system. I wish I could divorce the AUR from the distribution wars thing because I just want to talk about it in terms of a software delivery platform. That's why I started this conversation with the build service. But the reality is I actually think the AUR provides a better example because it's user-powered and then it's community-vetted. And it allows for me to go in with a certain level of confidence. I like being able to come onto the show for Linux Action Show and do a desktop app pick and say, you can install this package. And I had to drop three really, really, really, really great desktop app picks last week

because I couldn't come on the air and say, this is how you install it on Ubuntu. I think that's a major bummer. But how many of those three were because the person hadn't provided a 16.04 version yet? All of it, none of it was version specific. None of the issues were version specific at all. None of it was. It all was a matter of packaging and availability and repos.

And all of it, in every single circumstance, was available in the AUR. And it just struck me as this glaring, and the thing was, is you know, one of them was like a two-year-old drop-down terminal that just never made it into downstream Debian, or upstream, however you look at it. And I just kind of felt bad because they're creating something really great here.

And one of them was a chat program that I just mentioned earlier. What was that program, Noah, I had to build from source? And I actually started to write up the instructions, and I was just going to give people – and here's the other problem. It was an Ubuntu review episode, so I wanted to make sure that the desktop app pick could actually run on Ubuntu because that would be a pretty jackass thing to do. So the good news is that's the thing we're fixing.

Exactly. I love that. And I agree and I think that's why even though it's not something that's already existed it's still a very valid solution. What do you think Noah? I think my tummy hurts. As soon as you said that, he answered me like,

I told you so. I told you that's what I'm telling you all morning. That's what they're fixing. That's why I'm doing this. That's what I keep saying. I think that, I mean, you know, really, I think we're kind of going in circles. That's what I think.

But I think that we've gotten to a point where we have addressed that there is a problem. I think we all agree that there is a problem and that there needs to be a new solution. And I think we've also all agreed that Canonical has addressed that solution and has addressed the problem and is formulating a solution. And that really, I think really what it comes down to is you and I fundamentally disagree on if you think if the software is available in the EUR, even if you have to tweak it, that's better than it just not being available. And I would personally argue that as far as ease of installation, even if I have to go to a website and download a dev, that may not be as secure and that's not a great overall system. And yes, it may or may not screw other distros because it's occupying developers' time on a specific distribution. But I think that that provides a fundamentally easier way to get an application running on a given distribution. Well, it definitely gives a more Windows familiar feel.

I search for my installation thing. I download it from the web and I install it. I'll give you that. Okay. So let's move on. You can also get both. You can have both. That's the appeal to both of them.

But I want to move on because I don't want to bore people with this whole debate. I want to talk about some of the things that have actually already been sort of fixed up since our review. But honestly, Popey, I'm really genuinely curious about your thoughts on 1604. To me, it feels like one of the biggest releases for Ubuntu ever, and I'm curious if you feel the same. Yes, I do. Honestly. That's it, folks. No, no.

To you, I'm really – what do you think that means in terms of long-term impact of 16.04? And also, if you're willing to share with class, why you think it is that, beyond Snap packages? So we know that the vast majority of our users stick on LTS releases, like significantly, like double-digit percentage higher. No one's right. People stick on LTSs. Generally, our users don't want bleeding edge. They don't want the very latest kernel. They don't necessarily want the very latest of like LibC

or whatever wacky library. They just want something that's reliable and stable. It isn't going to change when they boot it up today from when they booted it up yesterday. So LTS is always important to us but the flip side of that is app developers are changing things and chrome changes frequently chromium changes frequently and other applications that people depend on change frequently and so i think 1604 could be one of those quite long-lived versions of Ubuntu, a bit like maybe the Windows XP of Linux. I was going to say 10.04.

I was going to say 10.04. I still run into some 10.04. There's 12.04. Oh, I do too. Do you run into 10.04 still? Yeah, I do. Doesn't make me happy. It was a solid distro.

With snappy packages that have the very latest version of an application, which can override whatever core library is on the system without jeopardizing an existing package that's already installed and not interfering with any other application that's already installed, that seems like that could have the potential to live for quite a long time. That's very well put even though i said not about snap packages you managed to put in such a great way that i completely agree and i'm willing to take the snap package answer uh also i think it's a pretty solid release because pretty soon a lot of s is going to change in ubuntu and if if people don't like the way things are going you can now say well just install 1604 and Snap packages will keep you going while they work out the book. Right? Don't you think that's a great?

So, like, you know, you might say, well, this Unity 8 stuff is different and all these apps are different. I don't want change. Just install 16.04 and shut your face. Right. I think it's going to. And it's not going to be in the past where you would say, well, OK, sure. But now I can't have X, Y, Z because I don't have GTKX. That problem is gone.

I think it's a big deal for that. Richard, I wanted to ask you, though, honestly, just kind of tingling in the back of my head here. Do you feel like when a new Ubuntu release comes out, is the oxygen sort of sucked out of the room for some of the other distros? Because I see a lot of people talking about switching to Ubuntu, Ubuntu this, 6.04 upgrade that, and it feels like nobody's talking about anybody else. No. In fact, we've seen a bit

of a spike of Tumbleweed downloads. Nice. I mean, the servers were slow even because of it. Wow. We got a backer right there. We got a second. I mean, I'm saying that I experienced them slow,

and it happened to be in the same time he said about the spike. All right. Well. This weekend's been a bit busier than usual. You know, it's funny because a lot of people said, hey, Chris, why don't you shut up and install Tumbleweed? That's what a lot of people said in the comments. A couple of things, Noah, I think you'll be glad to see fixed is the erase disk and create swap space bug that we ran into.

That has been fixed. Also, a couple of other little nagglers have been fixed, including a few other things we ran into, actually. So, you know, and I'm pleased to say that overall, it was a pretty quick turnaround. You were pretty disappointed in this bug. Yeah, I was. Well, I prefaced it, and I'll restate this. I cannot really hold Canonical or Ubuntu responsible for that bug unless it made it past release date, right? Absolutely.

Like, they tell you when you download it that you're downloading a pre-release software. It's not, it is not fully baked yet, and so it would be wholly unfair. I mean, people start complaining about that pretty soon. They're just going to stop letting you download it. Does it give you pause that it made it this far? No, not at all. Liar. It doesn't.

It doesn't give me any. You're lying. Hand to God, it gives me zero pause that it made it this far as long as it doesn't make it past the release date. I could hear you grouching just the other day about how you're really super disappointed that an LTS release like this has a bug that's gotten this far in the process and nobody noticed it. Hold on a second. Yeah. I was disappointed that it was an LTS release that they would even consider shipping with that bug. But they didn't. They fixed it.

And I don't think that's at all fair. They didn't. They fixed it. And I don't think that's at all fair. Like, especially coming from you, like somebody who wants all these changes, if you want companies to embrace changes, you want all the new stuff, all the new crack. If you want all that, you've got to give them up until the very last day to fix all this stuff. Yeah, it's just me. It's just me. That's not why rolling distributions are taking off like crazy.

That's not why things like Tumbleweed are blowing up. That's not why things like Arch are continuing to see new users. That's not why things like... It's just me, Noah. It's just me. It's just you. You're all... You're a special snowflake. But I just... I don't... No, I can't hold them at all responsible if they fixed it before the release. Because here's the thing. If I would have downloaded it at the day, then I would have just never even known it was there.

I'm not asking you that. Oh, what are you asking me? I'm saying they did their job. They did a great job. They got the problem solved before... Yeah. Absolutely. Out of ten. Out of ten are you asking me? I'm saying they did their job. They did a great job. They got the problem solved. Yeah. Absolutely. Out of ten. Out of ten, Noah. But what I am saying and you just won't admit it on air, is a little bit of you was disappointed that something like this existed

and that it got this far. And you won't admit that to you it felt like nobody was even trying to install this until we and other people started to notice this problem. And you won't say it on air, but I know deep down you felt that way. I agree with part of that, I guess. A part of me agrees with that. When you phrase it like that, I guess a part of me agrees with it.

But still, it just feels super— To be fair, that didn't happen. I've installed Ubuntu 6.9.4 about six times. Yes, that's right. January and February, all throughout the month, I didn't have that problem until I got here. Yeah, I agree. Same here.

Okay, fair point. You know what? Fair point. It goes to Rotten Corpse. I didn't run it. In fact, when Noah's... I know, I think about it. I'm going to get hit again.

I'm going to get hit again. Because you're right there. When we started to install, I'm like, I don't know. I never ran into that problem, man. And I've got it on four rigs. I totally said that. Must be you. Yeah, I was that guy. No, I don't know. I never ran into that problem, man. And I've got it like on four rigs. I totally said that. Must be you. Yeah, I was that guy.

He's telling me, he's like, so you don't know how to install Ubuntu. That's okay. Let the Arch user come over here and install Ubuntu for you. I was that guy for a little bit. I will admit that. I'm like always that guy. You can't help it because you're like, I don't know. I don't know what it's doing.

When I was in IT services, I was even the guy that said, don't blame me. It's a hardware problem. I wore that shirt. I went all in. it's doing. When I was in IT services, I was even the guy that said, don't blame me. It's a hardware problem. I wore that shirt. I went all in. That's why you're no longer in that business. That is. That's why I had to get out. So anyways, yeah, it was funny to sort of – one of the things that I enjoyed and I just want to wrap it up was I was all in on Ubuntu Mate edition during like my 16.04 run.

That was my favorite spot to be. So Noah and I basically swapped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I loved Neon Desktop, but I mean, in terms of, well, I guess, you know, I had it here hooked up to the stream. I wanted a daily performer that was really sort of minimal, that I didn't have to change a bunch of defaults. So that way stuff didn't pop up on the stream. And Mate just nailed it. And it was a great experience.

And I really liked some of the changes that were made. And so I was all about the Matei edition. So, and Noah traditionally, because that's what he deploys for clients, I assume, right, is mostly a Unity user. Plus he'll sometimes, he likes it because he can change the scaling, et cetera, et cetera. So we basically swapped. I said, Noah, you got to use Matei for the next day. I got to use Unity for the next day. Noah, you've got to use Mate for the next day. I've got to use Unity for the next day. And, Noah, I don't think you actually enjoyed it that much. You seemed like you were feeling like it was sort of— Well, so, in fairness to Ubuntu Mate, I was running on hardware that was giving me a lot of trouble.

And so that, right off the bat, created—I mean, I spent the first 40 minutes of my— Okay, actually, hold on just a second. This was your first hands-on with the Librem 15. You should go into detail. Well, so I installed a bunch of Matei, and I ran into the little swap error, and that was fine. I got through that. But the real problem was, you know, I spent the first 40 minutes trying to figure out how to turn off tap-to-click because I kept selecting text. I can't even scroll on the web page.

You also ran into problems with USB ports being powered. Oh, yeah. Okay. Backup. You also ran into problems with USB ports being powered. Oh, yeah. Okay. Backup.

I couldn't even get the operating system installed because the USB ports, half the time they're powered and half the time they're not. I don't mean different USB ports. I mean a single USB port. And I guess the answer is just to cycle the laptop numerous times. Thank God I had a flash drive with a light on it because if I didn't, I don't know how I would know if it was going to boot or not. This is legit because I was trying different distros. Having a thumb drive that lights up when it gets powered is very valuable information when you're troubleshooting this kind of stuff.

So half the time there's no power. The other half the time there is. I'd say it's about 50-50. So finally I just keep restarting the computer until I see the light come on. Then I'm like, well, don't screw up because we got a good one now. And I get into it. And then I hit that installer error, which was kind of a pain. And so, again, not Mate's fault.

USB port problem, not Mate's fault. So I restart another five, seven times, and 40 minutes later, I'm finally in the installer, thank God. And so I'm clicking through, and I finally get the operating installer. I'm like, fine, good. Now it's on to easier waters, right? Well, it turns out there's no touchpad driver.

It shows up as a PS2 mouse. So I have no two-finger screen. Hold on, are you saying this built for Linux laptop doesn't have out-of-the-box touchpad support? $1,800 built for Linux laptop support and my $500 System76 was washing the walls with it. So it is,

I can't scroll. I can't even research how to fix the scroll because I can't scroll and I can't type because I type three letters and it erases all my text and I have to start all over again. So eventually, I drove to Best Buy and bought a trackball and then come back and I'm working

on this trackball and I eventually research and find out, not that this is how I fix it. I am telegramming Wimpy in the middle of his work day to ask why the touchpad support isn't in a bunch of its day. And of course he tells me what I knew he was going to tell me, which is it's perfectly in there if you have a touchpad.

Well, LSPCI showed me that Librem is... So I don't have touchpads, so I can't really... So then the end of the night. So I take it home with me back to the hotel. And I'm at the hotel and I start using it. And that's when things kind of started to change. That's kind of when I started to see hotel and I'm at the hotel and I start using it. And that's when things kind of started to change. That's kind of when I started to see that like if I wanted a not changing desktop, which

I do like, and I just wanted to get work done and I didn't care for that dock, which a lot of people don't, I can see Matei being a really, really great alternative. Yeah, sure. But that's just the desktop environment. What did you think about like the welcome stuff and the Ubuntu tweak with Mutiny? I am totally—I didn't care about the Mutiny. That was not my thing. I mean, if I was going to have Mutiny, I'd probably just have traditional Unity.

But one thing I did care—I mean, that software center, that software boutique is so good, I will put it on every Ubuntu machine I install from now on. Every single client that gets an Ubuntu installation from me will have that installation package, that welcome package. That is far and away – they should make that their own app store and they should port it to like every distribution. It's that good. Wimby isn't here right now, but here's a telegram he sent me yesterday. He said he just pushed an update to Ubuntu Mate welcome. If you install it on another desktop flavor now, the software

boutique will appear in the menus. It was previously only in Matea sessions. I got the idea while watching your review. Oh, nice! We gave the command to use to just launch the software. So, this is a perfect example of how Martin Wimperis does

everything right. No, I'm serious. Now, you think about what just happened, okay? He listened to, you and I are not involved with the Matei Project. And so, and he's not involved with Juvenile Broadcasting. Actually, I mean, I would say he's involved quite a bit. Okay, fine, fine. But as a member, he's not.

In the virtual lug, yeah. So, he is a community member, and we, because we are members of the same community and he saw on his own volition, saw a problem that we were having, it really wasn't even a problem. He goes out of his way to make sure that it's going to be smoother for everyone. If every software distribution had somebody like Martin Wimpers on their team. I agree because it's not what he actually did. That's not what's the big deal. I agree because it's not what he actually did. That's not what's the big deal.

It's the fact that he kind of recognizes a pre-problem and solves it before it's even a problem. Before you even have to ask. Yeah, and that's what I think makes the Mate edition of Ubuntu 16.04 kind of special. And I'm sure Wimpy, if he was here, would say that credit goes to a lot of other people too. Yeah, a lot of people spend a lot of time on that project. It's all right, Chris. I'm telegramming everything you're saying. Thank you.

Play-by-play compliments over here. So that's why I wanted to – I think that's why we sort of wrapped the review on it. But we kind of – we got some grief

for not mentioning Zubuntu and Ubuntu Gnome Edition. But you know, talking about Matei, talking about Zubuntu, your buddy, Mr. Michael Arbel, over at Pharonix, did some benchmarking. Let's see it.

We've got some Ubuntu 16.04 benchmarks. That's how you have to say it. Ubuntu. Yeah, like that. Yeah, like that. 16.04. Nice. Ubuntu Yeah like that Yeah like that 16.04 Nice He compared Unity XFCE

KDE LXDE GNOME Mate And Openbox In a head to head comparison Of some classic Open source games

Wes Before I tell you Wes Before I reveal Wes Do you have a guess of which desktop environment, and we're not talking by huge margins here, not big margins, but do you have a guess, which desktop environment performed the best for Mr. Laravel's benchmarks?

I'm going to guess open box. Oh, let's see here. Oh. Uh-oh. No, I am sorry, Wes. That is not. At the house. That was not a correct answer.

Mr. Noah, do you have a guess as to which desktop performed the best? A bunch of it, say. That's what I would have guessed. Anybody in the Mumba Room have a guess as the desktop desktop performed the best? A bunch of it, eh? That's what I would have guessed. Anybody in the Mumba Room have a guess as to the desktop environment that performed the best? Yes. Go ahead, Poby. Was it by any chance Ubuntu GNOME? No, it was not.

It was not. Only because of it. Plasma 5. Actually, Plasma 5 fared very, very well. Ubuntu GNOME did not fare well because for whatever reason, the Ubuntu GNOME desktop detected that the apps were no longer responding, even though they were responding,

and kept coming up like the force quit prompt and just trashed performance. Otherwise, Ubuntu GNOME would have fared better. No. Ladies and gentlemen, the number one performant desktop is... ......... The number one performant desktop is... Unity.

Ha ha! It's just Unity. Suck it up. Are you serious? Yeah. Whoa. Now, this is only if you do not alter defaults. If you go with a default install desktop and want to play games with the current 16.04 flavors, Unity actually gets you by a very thin margin. Yes, those extra three frames a second that count, don't they?

Supposedly, I guess. Unity will give you the best performance. So there you go. As much tersh talk as we have tossed towards Unity, you know what? I'm going to keep it right here on my – this is my Unity desktop here plugged into the production stream. I'm going to keep it as long as possible. I made it with Kubuntu for almost a month on the live stream. I think I can make it for Unity for two months at least.

1604, I'm going to lock it in. Now, the only thing I can see changing this is I really want to demo a piece of software, I want to do a how-to or something like that, and it's just not available for Ubuntu, which happens all the time. That never happens, Chris. So, yeah. Yeah, there you go. If you want absolute performance, be like me.

Run Unity. You know what? I haven't had the Flickr problems anymore anymore either. I started having the flickering problems when I hooked up my HDMI external. And, Popey, I wonder, did that happen to you too? Did you not have flickering until you tried a second monitor? So I recently bought a new ThinkPad, and, yes, there's flickering, and it's an upstream Intel video driver problem,

which has been going for, like, four months now. See, I had flickering once when I hooked up external HDMI, but I have not had a problem since then. So I consider myself lucky. I have a Skylake Iris. I did something that I promised myself I would never do, which is I rebuilt my own kernel, which I have tried to not do since the past 10 years of running Ubuntu. I've tried not to do that. I had to patch one single line in the Intel video driver and then rebuild my own kernel. Before I was an Ubuntu user, when I was living the Gen 2 life, I was all about that. I was all about that.

I just, all the time. But since I started switching over to basically every other distro since then, I'm like, I just, it's not that I mind it. I love that I can. Yes. I love that it's possible to go and do that. It actually is kind of rewarding. And my friends can tell me, hey, this is the line you need to patch. And I patch it, and then I rebuild my kernel. And now I'm never, ever moving off of this kernel version ever again.

This machine now becomes precious. Yes. Poppy, any ideas of when that might actually get fixed? Ask Intel. Oh, okay. Oh, hold on. Who do I? Hold on.

Hold on. Hold on. No, come on now. Come on. I wasn't ready for that. Who do I ask? Intel. Oh, I actually am still not ready.

There we go. So anyways, I'm just happy with my Ubuntu 16.04 install overall. Now that I have all my applications installed. And I'm going to keep it for a while. That's sort of my ending thoughts on it. I'm just going to see how it feels. I'm going to stretch it out. So Noah, you did a thing today.

You hosted Tech Talk today. What? What? No, yeah. It was great. Yeah. It was good. You're now the permanent host.

Yeah. You're going to fly over every Tuesday, right? Yeah. Absolutely. And so we stepped in a thing. You and I, you started it actually. What did I start? You do this every time.

What? I don't know what you're talking about. I legitimately have no idea what you're talking about. You're upset with me about a lot of things today. So it's kind of hard to pinpoint the exact thing that you're upset about and referring to in this specific incident. I actually think maybe I don't need to explain it. Maybe I should play it for the audience and then let them come to their own conclusions.

You could just tell me what you're talking about. Yeah, I could. So I'm talking about the ending of this week's Tech Talk today. Right. You started real strong. Yeah, I screwed up. Well, you know, what I like about you, Noah, is you're a hell of an improviser. Wow, there's that.

You know, like, if you were going to be stuck at, say, like, a Linux Fest, and you were going to, say, have to vamp for, like, six hours on a live stream. Yeah, or, like, maybe the entire weekend of self. There's almost nobody better to be with than Noah. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Oh, I'm a blabbermouth, yeah. No, yeah. Well, I'm just an expert in my own opinion.

That's all. It's like if we were going to storm a building, and I really feel like you would have my back. It's like when we storm a stream, you've always got my back. Yeah, for sure. And so in traditional Noah style, you had my back. You rolled into this Patreon. I'm going to play a little. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

There's Popey. So there's Popey. Holy smokes. Why is Popey instead of... That was way too much Popey. It was. And why is he in the tubes of the U? He was in Tech Talk today.

He was in Tech Talk today. I'm coming... I know what you're talking about now. There you go. Yeah, okay. Did you listen to Tech Talk today, Wes? I did. I did, but I don't know if I know what you're talking about.

I'm excited to see. So basically... Hold on. I'm going to play it. Because I don't want... I was there, and I don't know why. Yeah, okay. I figured it out.

All right. Like a day later, a beer koozie shows up at my front door. You can get a beer koozie and random other gifts throughout the year. So Noah, he's doing the Tech Talk Today show. He's helping direct attention to the Patreon because it's critical to funding for the network. So Noah mentions some of these things. And I want you to just sort of understand how Noah is trying his best here. He's going to come at this and he wants to build this up. But then he gets sort of towards the precipice of the cliff and realizes he doesn't have an answer

and he's just got to make something up. And he eventually winds up putting him and I in something that is going to be utterly embarrassing and perhaps completely damaging to our brand. If you were to support not only Tech Talk Today, but the entire network. And you can do that at Patreon.com slash today. Now, this is a way for you to show that you care about the network. And you can hear he's thinking right there. You can hear him thinking. Don't give away my secrets.

Don't give away my secrets. Value the network. And if you're the kind of person that says, I want less ad spots. I don't like ads. I don't want ads. You guys are selling out to the advertisers because all he talks about is how many GSM Ting cards he has and how many droplets he has on DigitalOcean. If that's you, stop complaining and go put your money where your mouth is.

Go to Patreon.com slash today. Now, here is a special offer. A special one-time offer. And I know Ange. You know, I've known Ange for a while. Oh my God, he's going to give something away. What's he doing? He didn't talk to me about this.

I can see Ange totally, totally sitting where Wes is sitting right now. And she's just quietly panicking. Because what Angela, and she's completely right, she's thinking, oh my God, whatever he's about to say. We have to stand by. I actually, I'm the one that's going to have to do the work. And so she's thinking, what is he about to say? And I'm listening upstairs and I'm like, what is he about to say?

If, I'm making this up on the fly. I don't have a special object. Yeah, I'm like, what is this? I normally, I. If you, if we, the current patron is at 562. So if we can. That people, that's how's people. That's people. That's how many people are Patreons right now.

So if we can get to 570, 570, before we'll say... You can tell he's totally making this up. That I was legitimately trying to think, how long could I realistically get it with short enough time to make sure that it's evident that it came from this episode. So eight more people. Eight more people. We can get eight people to sign up before LinuxFest, we'll say. And that would show Chris that even though Noah has staggered his way through this entire show, we got a couple patrons,

so he actually did a reasonable job. If we can do that, I will, and this is where I'm falling short. Yeah, what am I going to do? I'm going to do something. I'll do something crazy. Okay, you think about that. I'm just going to say. You know what am I going to do? I'm going to do something. I'll do something crazy. Okay, you think about that. I'm just going to say. You know, this is Andra.

She's trying to cover for you right now. She did a great job pulling me through that episode. I appreciated having her here. I'd have been totally hosed. She's got good cover. Go, go. Tech Talk Today. How's that web app working?

Patreon.com forward slash today supports the whole network. But also, if you do watch and filter, and that's more your bag, you can support us there as well. Patreon.com forward slash today supports the whole network. But also, if you do watch Unfilter and that's more your bag, you can support us there as well. Patreon.com forward slash Unfilter. Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah. If you want to put political content. Yeah. Because we do.

I mean, people do want to support in both places, but we understand you can't do that. So if you want to represent and support Jupiter Broadcasting, you can do either one. All right. Here's what I'll do. If you guys go over and we get up to five, what did I say? up to 570, if we get to 570, I will wear a Windows shirt to LinuxFest Northwest. Oh! Wow.

I will wear a Windows Vista shirt. You're going to have to go find one, right? I will wear a Windows Vista shirt to LinuxFest Northwest. If we can get to 570 patrons. I think we will. This is kind of where I start to crap kittens. I'm sitting upstairs and I'm like, Darn it, Noah! What are you setting me up for?

You're ruining my podcast network of Linux users! I'm thinking Saturday and Sunday, we're on the livestream. I'm thinking we meet a thousand plus listeners and Noah's wearing a Windows shirt. I'm thinking, alright, if we're going to do this, we've got to do this. Salvage. I hope so. I hope that chat room and the listeners come together

and say, we forgive you, Noah, for totally botching this episode. If you listen carefully in the background, you might hear me scrambling down the stairs. And let me just clarify the can koozie that Noah received in the mail is for the swag level members. Oh yeah, you have to be a good Patreon fan. Yeah, there's a limited

number of those, so just check out the different Patreon levels on patreon.com forward slash today. Remember that you can submit your content for the shows at... And Angela hears me coming in the studio right now. She's doing good. Again, she's doing really good covering. She's gotten good at this show. So I'm actually

at this moment, I am bussing in the studio and I'm trying to figure out whose microphone I'm going to take over. techtalktoday.reddit.com I was just thinking. Oh no. Now I'm in trouble Shut up What if we got to like 600

And then I'll wear A Microsoft shirt too Like Wow that's like a lot more We'd go all in Like both of us So 8 for Noah And 40 for you

Or 48 If I'm going Otherwise I'm there To promote Otherwise I'm there To promote my brand Not Microsoft Yeah

So that brand Being Linux Action Show At the Linux Fest Northwest. I mean, it makes sense, right? We want to let Linux users know about it. I'm sure I checked with you before. No, no, this is genius. I say, okay, I just think that'd be great.

What if we did it? Or I'll wear an Apple shirt. So you'll wear a Windows shirt. I'll wear an Apple shirt. Okay. Hi, I'm a Mac. I'm a PC. Oh, my God, you guys are a duo.

Welcome to Linux Fest. Dude, you know, the thing is, we're going to be on the live stream. Yeah, in front of the cameras. What did I get myself into? So, okay. So what was the number? All right. It's 560 right now.

560 something. 562 right now. 562. So if we get to 600, I feel like we should one up at just one more. Hold on. Let me go see if I have an Apple share right here. 601. Well, if you don't.

601. 601. 601. We should. Because, dude, if we share right here. 601. Well, if you don't. 601. 601. We should, because dude, if we're doing this. 601. He's really serious about 601. Because otherwise we're marking, I mean, we're marking LinuxFest Northwest 2016 coverage forever. And like, we go out to after parties, we gotta wear that stuff. Yeah, that's gonna be super embarrassing. This feels like Calvin, you know, pissing on the

Ford or whatever. Or whatever. 601! 601. Okay, so anyway, You can contribute At any level So Even if it's just Three dollars a month

Three dollars a month Is not even a coffee A month Because I gotta go buy An apple shirt If this I might have one

I might have one Back at my house Do you have like One of the Girl top cut ones That would be great No I do not

I do not personally I do not personally. I'm going to buy one. All right. So Patreon.com slash today. We are trying to get to 601 patrons before Linux Fest Northwest. And we'll have some fun with it when we get there. We can film Noah going to the Microsoft store

buying the Windows shirt. Oh, man. Oh, man. Just to clarify. Just to clarify. Before everyone freaks out because I see people freaking out in the chat room. I see people freaking out, about to freak out in the mumble room.

I don't run Windows. I don't have Windows installed. I'm not going to install Windows. I'm just going to wear the shirt, guys. I will testify to that. That's the least of my worries. I'm more concerned about you in a girly taupe. Yeah, me too.

No, I'm not concerned about that at all. It's better than – I've seen him without pants on. The girly taupe's nothing. Yeah, no, trust me. Well, I'm not concerned about that at all. It's better than... I've seen him without pants on. The girly town's not on. Yeah, no, trust me. Well, I guess... Yeah, it's going to be fun. Oh, I'm getting a call right now. Should we take it?

Oh, yeah, sure, yeah. No, I don't know. It's a private number. I know we could do the thing, but... Yeah, I'm going to dismiss call because I don't know. Although, I think I just turned on... I think I also just turned on NFC and Wi-Fi calling, so boy, that

was a mess. So this is sort of our last moment of tranquility. As we wrap up this episode of the Unplugged program, we currently don't have a live unfilter planned because we're going to start tearing apart the studio. And so we needed to give... Not the studio! Yeah. Don't worry. It's going to start tearing apart the studio. And so we needed to give it. Not the studio.

Don't worry. It's going to involve more Linux. Potentially a lot more Linux. And we will be making content out of that as we can. And so check out the calendar at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. But be sure to join us live on the weekend.

Go over to jblive.tv Saturday and Sunday. Noah's going to be there. I'm going to be there. Wes is going to be there. You know it. The crowd is going to be wild. I think it's going to be the best LinuxFest ever. And the weather right now is ridiculous. Sublime. Although if you're Noah, it's... Blissfully hot. It's too hot and he's got allergies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice. That's good context. That's good context. We'd love to hear your thoughts on anything we talked about today from Ubuntu 16.04 all the way back up to the beginning of the show. And did you know Tomb Raider's got the specs out? I'm really excited about that. All that. Give us all your thoughts.

Go over to linuxactionshow.reddit.com and leave your feedback for episode 141. I would love to have some clips and good stuff unplugged from LinuxFest. So if you're going to be at LinuxFest Northwest and can maybe even get a little video of some of the sessions or something like that, come see us at the booth and let us know. Maybe we can incorporate into a future Unplugged. We'll get some coverage from our virtual lug. That'd be pretty cool.

Anyways, we'd love to see you. Go to jupyterbroadcasting.com to send us feedback. LinuxActionShow.reddit.com to give us your stories, your topic ideas, and last but not least, jblive.tv. You come over there, and then you do a little bang mumble in that IRC room, and you can get secret access to our virtual look. Join us.

There's basically no qualifications required other than have a solid opinion, a great working microphone, and figure out how to join the mumble room by getting that info from our chat room. Hmm. And then you can participate in the discussion. Wes, tell people where they can find you on the Twitters.

Go ahead. Give it to them. At Wes Payne. Oh, what about you, Mr. Kernel? Let's work and they can find you. At Kernel Linux. Hey, that's easy enough. I'm at Chris Elias.

Follow the network at Jupiter Signal. Those are useful resources as the fest is nigh. Thanks for joining us this week. See you right back here next Tuesday. Get it out of here. And there we go. We're out. In Noah's defense, Windows has now a bash on it. That's true. How did I know somebody was going to say that

No it would make a great Windows user We can post Windows on Pod I'm going home Hold on we've got our first submission For a Chris wears an Apple shirt Now here's the problem in order to get this in time I'd have to order it now and I don't know if we're actually going to get to 601 Once you go Mac you never go back

Well then it can just live on the studio wall for eternity. No, it can't live on the studio wall. JBTitles.com. JBTitles. JBTitles. I thought I'd get more schooled by Mr. Popey. That's what I was expecting. That's what I thought.

All right. Look at that. Wimpy wasn't here, but he's got a title suggestion. Well, Popey's just a nice guy. Correct. So, Noah, what was your impression riding in Lady Joops? Mine? Yeah, your takeaway

impressions. The, uh, oh, jeez, wow, wow, fail. It's super nice. The thing I think that stood out to me most was the concept, like the total nomadic concept, right? So, when I am at my house, I have all of, you know,

we go grocery shopping once a month and we have all the groceries in the house and, you know, the kids have all their toys. I have a bedspread that I really like on my bed. And when we go into our RV, it's, we've got to stock the RV for, you know, food that is going to be, you know, easy to take along, easy to pack, isn't going to go bad real fast, that kind of thing. And I, we buy separate bedding that isn't terribly expensive because we know we're not going to be in there a whole lot. And so the ability to just, you are living the

entire week. And I came and spent some time with you early last week. And then all of a sudden, oh, we're going to leave. And in, you, you push a couple buttons, you pull a couple hoses, you unplug a couple things. And all of a sudden, you take your house and bring it onto the interstate. And now your house is rolling down the interstate. And he gets like – we get partway there, right? And Chris goes, I'm hungry. And just like we just stop. His house stops in the middle of the – not in the middle of the interstate, but he pulled off. It was actually – it was like a historical pull-off area. It was actually kind of cool. No, I'm hungry. And we just stop. His house stops in the middle of the industry.

Not in the middle of the industry, but he pulled off. It was actually like a historical pull-off area. It was actually kind of cool. No, no, no, on the way down. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah. So we stopped. Actually, it was in front of a tire change store, I think.

Yeah, yeah. We were kind of worried about it. But so he pulls his house to the tire change store and pushes a couple buttons, and his house transforms. It's like Transformers. It goes back from mobile traveling down the road back into a house and then he walks into his kitchen and his girlfriend starts making him a sandwich in the kitchen with the groceries that they, I assume, bought for the month.

Is this some sort of paradise? Yeah. He gets out of his driver's seat and walks. He wasn't in his boxers, but he could have been because he does shows that way. I was barefoot. In this version, he is in his boxers. He't in his boxers, but he could have been because he does shows that way. So I was barefoot. Yeah. In this version, he is in his boxers.

Yeah. Okay. All right. He's in his boxers. And so he gets out of his seat. If you weren't there, I would have been. Oh, really? Okay.

So he has a picture. There's no shirt, just boxers and gets gets out of his seat of his driver's seat and walks over and eats a sandwich and chats for a little bit and relaxes. And then he gets back up and goes, goes well I guess we better get on the road and goes back and sits down still with no clothes on I took a leak too oh yeah yeah you piddled a little and then sits back down in his chair and puts it back and

drive and then we continue on we never once left the RV on the way down there and we like we didn't even it wasn't even really like a full like let's stop and transition into we're no longer driving anymore. We just basically stopped. You push two buttons to like, I don't know what you did.

I suppose you put the jacks out and the slides out. But it was just interesting to be able to go from mobile to stationary to mobile in under minutes. Wow. Mere minutes, yeah. And then we got to our overnight spot, which we just happened to find on the internet. Using Allstays app. And it was, I mean, like, I would have paid to stay here. Right, yeah.

So Chris was explaining that he has a trifecta. He likes it to be inexpensive. He likes it to be close enough to the interstate so he doesn't have to spend a bunch of time, effort, gas, et cetera, getting out to the place. And the third thing is he likes it to be close enough to the interstate so he doesn't have to spend a bunch of time, effort, gas, etc. Getting out to the place. And the third thing is he likes it to be private. And this place had all three plus. It just happened to have like this little creek and it happened to have a nice. Wildlife.

Yeah, it was just a beautiful place. So we get there and then Chris, in his typical Chris fashion, reaches under some storage bay and pulls out a grill. And he's like, this needs to be assembled. Where'd the brown man go? Brown man, go to work. And hands it to me. And then I'm like, but master, I need tools. He's like, we needs to be assembled. Where'd the brown man go? Brown man, go to work. And hands it to me. And then I'm like, but master, I need tools. He's like, we don't have tools.

Assemble with your hands, boy. I'm like, all right. So I slave away outside putting the grill together. And then we ignited it. And I had some of the best marinated grilled chicken. This goes back to the fact that we just have our house with us. You know, we'd gone grocery shopping and Hadiyah had just thrown some chicken. She made up a marinade of

some spicy sweet chili and sesame sauce and stuff and just had it in the fridge. We weren't sure if we were going to get to cook anything, but since we had it, we just threw it on the barbecue. After I slaved away assembling the barbecue, then Chris walked over and clicked the chicken a couple

times and made it into, I guess, an O. No, it was really good. It was actually some of the best barbecued chicken I'd ever had. Not really barbecued, more grilled, but whatever. I screwed up. Excellent point, Noah. Are you a believer? I fall somewhere in the middle.

Okay, alright, that's fair. After eating some of the best grilled chicken I think I'd ever had, then we curl up for a night of watching Netflix and YouTube because just because you live in an RV apparently doesn't mean that you give up normal internet life. So we did that for a little bit and then just crawled up and went to sleep. And the great thing is here's how I woke up. You might say I'm a heavy sleeper, right?

Dude, what we have learned is, which is great, actually, for RV living. Noah, you're a really good RV guest. Because when Hadiyah and I just needed to get up, we just got up, started walking around, made our breakfast, just walking, moving around Noah. And Noah just sleeps through it all. You have to intentionally try and wake me up. So I'm sleeping. I don't even notice that they're up. I'm just passed out.

And then the way I woke up was, I felt us moving. and I'm like, oh, we're driving down the road. And then I realized like my arm is getting pushed like slowly above my head. And I'm like, what is happening? So I kind of like open my eyes and look around and there's Hadiyah with like an ear to ear grin and she's bringing the slide in. I'm sleeping on the couch that's on the slide. And so the slide is like moving in. Like my arm is slowly getting pushed up and I'm like, oh, good morning.

And, you know, they've been up for a while. And then so basically I just got to lay there for a little bit like a lazy son of a gun. And we got on the road and started moving. And when I was darn good and ready, then I got up all the way and leisurely made my way up to the cab and said hello and hung out for a little bit and then went and had my breakfast and whatnot. But to be able to live like that is, I don't know, there is something super appealing. And I think the first thing is I'd really like to see a paradigm shift. I would like to stop seeing people, you know, demeaning those and looking down on people that live in smaller homes, you know, like campers or trailers or tiny houses. There's a stigma.

There is a stigma. And I think that it's actually way more efficient and way more fun than people give it credit for. Yeah. Thank you, sir. That was a good fun story. I loved – I was so jazzed up about that boondocking spot that we found because it was like three minutes from the highway, we found because it was like three minutes from the highway, which is a big deal when you have a really large vehicle and you need to go, you got to go park, but you have to be really careful about where you end up because you don't want to end up down a road that

you end up having to turn around or back up because you might end up having to back down a road for a mile or two. And that's extremely challenging. So it's always kind of a stressful thing when you decide to go off in a town you don't know and you just kind of go down a dark road because of course we decided to drive into the night like we always do. And so when we found this place, it was so dark. I could tell there was a lot of space and it was a lot of gravel, but there was some uneven ground and stuff like that, but it was so dark. I couldn't really get it. Didn't know what you'd found. Yeah. I couldn't

get a perception of how big it was. And then when the sun came up, it was like movie picturesque because we have a couple of windows in our bedroom, but we have one window that faces—what side does the sun rise on? I guess we were parked that direction. It rises on the east, that's in the west. So I guess our bedroom window is faced perfectly east, and the sun literally came up and rose in our window in our bedroom.

So it was just this extremely yellow sunlight that came in and just blasted our bedroom with just gorgeous yellow sunlight. And that's what I woke up to. And then when I came outside and realized that we had parked around lakes and ponds and there were bridges and there were like, there were trails and it was just really something. And it was gravel. And so it was nice and clean gravel. You could walk around. You weren't bringing a bunch of dirt into the rig. And just a perfect spot and absolutely free.

They just have a three-night max. And the thing is Lady Joops has about 12 hours of battery, give or take. And then a generator to cover any of the gaps there. And the way the generator works in Lady Joops is it kicks on until the batteries are charged back up or if you're doing something that's extremely demanding electrical-wise. Right. Have more load. Yeah. And then once you're done with either the batteries charged or you're done with your demand, the generator turns off.

So you're not always running the generator. Yeah. So it's just basically a way to supplement the batteries. And so we're sitting there watching Netflix and YouTube and it's all silent. We're in the middle

and like you got the windows open so you can hear like all the wildlife outside and it was unbelievable. It was kind of the perfect night

to start the road trip. Civilized adventure. Yeah, it was. It was. Mm-hmm. On the flagship of the Jupiter Broadcasting Network. USS Jupiter.