LINUX Unplugged - Episode 142: Long Term Disappointment | LUP 142

Episode Date: April 27, 2016

This week LTS has a new meaning as we reflect on a couple of weeks with Ubuntu 16.04 & why we’re dumping it.We pick up the mood with some exclusive LinuxFest Northwest clips, projects updates & another clip that was never meant to air.

Okay, Mr. Colonel Linux, this is a quiz for you, sir. Can you place this tune? Okay, that's all you get so far, then I'll give you more of a hint. Can you... It's a clip from a soundboard in the Jupiter Broadcasting Studio. Okay, alright. Okay, that's, well, technically correct, but not the actual accurate answer. Don't look at my screen!

I will continue on. Now, Wes, you recognize what this is, right? I do. Yeah, I thought so. Must be Star Trek, then. Uh-uh. Nope, nope. Come on, nobody in the chat room knows what this is?

Really? Nope? Really? Nope. Really? Hmm. All right, I'm going to give you one more hint, one more hint, one more hint. All right, Wes, what is it, Wes. What is it, Wes? What is it?

What is it? Let us know, Wes. Give us the big reveal. What are we listening to? Are you ready? Are you ready? I don't know. It is, ladies and gentlemen, the original Star Fox intro. Oh, North Ranger got it. Yeah. I got it. Yeah, yeah. Star Fox intro. Ah. Oh, North Ranger got it.

Yeah. I got it. Yeah, yeah. Star Fox. Okay, so I love Star Fox. I love Star Fox, too. I actually saw a Star Fox thing at LinuxFest Northwest, surprisingly enough. But anyways, that's not what we're here to talk about.

I love this. You know, this is a different kind of open source. This is an intellectual kind of open source. A fan-made Star Fox cartoon recalls the best of 70s sci-fi animation, and you should watch it really before it gets taken down. It is a Star Fox cartoon, a fox in space, and if you liked the old Star Fox show, they have a big disclaimer in there. We're not doing this for profit.

We swear we're not doing this for profit. We swear. You're not dying, no see. You guys should just turn around and leave because you do not want to piss off my uncle. Oh, just who I needed to see. Star Wars. Star Wars. This is happening.

All your friends are out of the game, Wolf. Don't make me shoot you down. This is so great. It really is great. If you ever watched or played Star Wars, I should say, or Star Wars, Star Fox, this is for you. This is really cool. I have a link in the show notes. And one of those things that's probably going to get pulled down really soon.

Right away. Yeah, so if you want to enjoy it, you've those things that's probably going to get pulled down really soon. Right away. Yeah. So if you want to enjoy it, you've got to kind of be a fast mover. YouTube DL that right now. This is Linux Unplugged, episode 142 for April 26, 2016. Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's had such mush. It's been swapping drives while the computers are still powered. That's legit. My name is Chris.

My name is Wes. Hey there, Wes. Welcome to the Post-LinuxFest Northwest Hangover. Ooh, it's a doozy. Oh, man. I don't know how, but somehow we're going to have a great show for you today. Somehow we will persevere. We're going to talk about... Yeah, don't leave. Stay here. Stay here. Don't worry.

It's worth it. Yeah. We got some interesting Firefox updates coming towards you. Some good reports of the new Ubuntu tablet. Of course, the clips you never got to see in Linux Action Show from LinuxFest Northwest. Ooh. The good stuff. As well as a few stories, a few build

projects gone awry. Perhaps some beer will be spilt. And as always, we'll update you on some of our favorite open source projects. A lot of really fun things to cover, so you know what we gotta do, Wes. We gotta focus. We gotta harness the power of the internet and bring in our virtual lug. Time appropriate

greetings, Mumble Room. Greetings. Hey, guys. Hello, guys. So, Wes and I might be a little punchy. My mouth may not work very well today. None of those things should be held against us. Yeah, because we're going to be

leaning on you guys because I've got to tell you, things have gotten so bad around the JB1 studios because of total exhaustion from LinuxFest Northwest that just mere moments ago, we decided we've had too many things frustrate us. And both Noah and I were just totally done with Ubuntu 16.04. And I have it on this Apollo that I've been keeping for, I was going to keep it in Linux Action Show.

I said, I'm going to stick with this. That was a pretty big step for you. Yeah, and we're going to give you our full take towards the end of the show. So those of you who don't really care, don't worry. We won't bore with you at the top here. But to give you an indication of how mush our heads are, but yet we're still trying to push through, I'm about to play something for you that is not the first time this happened this weekend,

not the second time this happened this weekend, but perhaps the third time this weekend that we had to rebuild a machine, swap drives out, and load a new OS, and all three times. This is agonizing. We had to do it more than three times, but all the three times I'm thinking of, we were in such a rush, we actually forgot to turn the computers off first. So I'm going to play a little bit of this clip that Mr. Colonel Linux grabbed this morning. You think you can log in? No.

We'll see. So right here you are seeing this is my Apollo after I've closed the lid like 20 minutes ago, walked out, came back in the studio and didn't realize that I hadn't turned it off. This is a common problem we had. So it's just sitting there suspended. I flipped the laptop over, started taking the screws out of the bottom, pulled the plate off, pulled out both hard drives, swapped out

both. Hot swap. Swapped out the Ubuntu drives with two blank drives, powered it back on, and it actually woke up, Wes. And here is the login manager working. And it's done. It's kind of impressive. Oh, you just got the wrong password.

Maybe we should drop down to a terminal. There we go. Now let's see if we can log in. Yeah. Oh, we're starting to get errors. We're starting to get IO errors. Uh-oh. Extended for error. So starting to get errors. We're starting to get IO errors. Uh-oh. Extended for error.

I know there's coming in across the board, sir. I block zero. Can't find I block zero. I know there's, sir. So much for Linux being able to run completely out of RAM. Unable to read. I block zero. Why are you running your OS on a RAM disk, Chris?

Oh, man. Mass massive, massive turbulence. Initiating emergency reboot sequence. Uh-oh, connection refused. Unable to activate service. Oh, no. We're going down. So that was me this morning. Now I just want to give you a taste of what my nights are like.

See, I usually go to bed a little bit later than I like to. Naturally. Because they're hard days. And every single day since Noah got in town, every single day there has been major decisions to make that have serious long-term ramifications about production and the network. And it's just been like— There are no off days. It is exhausting. It is exhausting. to make that have serious long-term ramifications about production and the network. And it's just been like... There are no off days. It is exhausting. It is exhausting.

But it's been even worse for NOAA and, say, RECI, because they're the ones staying up to all hours of the night actually implementing some of these changes. And so this was about a 2 a.m. call that I got. And I should point out, too, that this was stuff that we did not intend to be on the air per se. Oh yeah, right. But we're going to let it on the air anyway. This is the Unplugged show. There will be some F-bombs in about a minute into this. Don't worry.

They're not too bad. It's all in good fun. It's a late night call that I got that Noah sent me that I thought I'd share with you guys because this was never supposed to be aired. But this gives you a little idea of the state of mind that everybody was in after working until about 4 a.m., 5 a.m. for about six, seven days straight. Oh, wait, not this one.

That's the last one. Hold on a second. Hold on. And wait for it. I don't even see it in here. Oh, I don't even see it in here. Maybe I'm totally – my head is too tired. But I bet I'll come up to it.

I bet I'll find it in a little bit. I bet I'll find it in a little bit. I bet I'll find it in a little bit. Here we go. I just found it. Oh, wait a minute. That's what I did. See, I am tired. I mislabeled the eclipse.

Oh, well. Woe is me. I think I had, you know what, Mr. Noah, I think I'm getting a little bit of feedback. I think I'm hearing a little bit of goodness come through on your speakers there or something. So, yeah, there we go. Hey, I found it. Here, I'm going to play it for you. Are you ready?

Okay. This is, now just be warned, this was not meant for public consumption. But, yeah, 1.57 a.m. precise is when this came out to me here. And now I'm going to play it for you. Yeah, hop on the other side. Hi, Topher. Chris Topher. Hi. Hi. for you yeah hop on the other side hi tofer christopher hi so it's really late like super that's beard hi beard i like how laying on your shoulder just makes me go for a kick so we're all exceedingly tired crazy tired crazy tired i'm temporarily wired because I drank a Coke. That rhymes with tired.

But we fixed your fucking RTMP stream. Kind of. What do you mean kind of? I thought you said it was. YouTube doesn't completely work because Upstart is a bitch. Right. You have to restart it manually. But you're a smart guy, so you can do that. But we'll fix it so you don't have to do that.

Beard will fix it. I will not fix it But we'll fix it so you don't have to do that. Beard will fix it. I will not fix it. I'll fix it by not using Ubuntu. Beard. Beard. That does not seem smart. So anyway. And I transcoded all your files.

Yeah, he did good. In other words, he's useless. Useless out of thin. So listen to me now. SATCOM 1 is a go and is working. SATCOM 2 is kind of half a go. It's half a go. Your personal rig?

Fucked. Totally. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So this thing, you get to play with that. Fucked out of ten. Fucked out of ten. Actually fucked out of like 150. So out of 10. Like, I'm actually fucked out of, like, 150.

And so we try. I don't know. It's not... Hardware works, but I can't install your stupid Anergos. So... Turns out... MVME drives. MVME drives out of 10.

They fucking suck. If we put it on the SSD, it'll work just fine. But I don't know what the fuck is going on. We might have to buy it a plane ticket or something. Maybe that's what we'll do. Okay, anyway, we just wanted to tell you how hard we worked and how fucking tired we are. We're tired of Noah Tufan. Yes, but how much sleep did you get last night?

Not much. I got like two or three hours. You're a fucking good sleep schedule. Yeah. He's very cold though I've hit my limit of how late I can stay up so I'm going to bed and just to let you know we stayed up

and fixed our shivers hopefully it works turn the heat off so you don't keep him up all night oh yeah who keep who up all night turn the heat up or off we're gonna freeze and then Oh, yeah. Turn the heat up or off? We're going to freeze. And then, after he gets this working, he decides to kiss the phone.

Good night. Oh, that's adorable. Oh, it didn't shut off. That was really awkward. Okay. Nighty night. Here, hold on. All right, Brown Bear, how much had you drank before you recorded that for me?

Zero. I have had no drugs. I have had no alcohol. It is literally just five consecutive nights, six consecutive nights of, like, one to two hours of sleep. And you just hit a limit. And then all of a sudden, like, you get so tired. It's just, like, simple things. Like, somebody would say something to me, and I would just completely forget about it like 30 seconds later i had no recollection of i switched a whole hard drive in a computer and i have zero recollection of doing it it's amazing

that everything still works yeah really yeah literally he swapped out a hard drive in a machine totally forgot about it so uh you you kind of teased it there real quick uh why don't you tell the people what the heck satcom 1 and satCOM 2 is, how the heck they run Linux, and why it's so damn awesome now? So basically, we are trying to expedite the flow of streams and also create a way that not one system is so heavily reliant with problematic Internet. And so basically, we are sending a single stream up to DigitalOcean to JB SATCOM 1, and SATCOM 1 then distributes those streams to all of the various places like you stream and scale engine and and whatnot and then the other thing we've done is we satcom one also sends a stream

to satcom two and satcom two then connects in with youtube so we have a youtube live page now and you will have the ability i'm doing it right now but you'll eventually have the ability to from the chat room start and stop satcom 2 to bring that live stream up and down yeah using uh jbot which is uh which is very cool um so lots of you know one of the things about this trip is and i think we should probably talk about this almost on its own dedicated thing but um these are all linux rigs being powered by lin Linux machines running OBS here in the studio. We're now able to, this probably doesn't seem like a big deal to most people, but it's a big personal thing for me because it was always a polished thing. We're now able to switch from reruns on the live stream to live shows without any interruption in the stream.

That is really nice. We can take equipment offline behind the scenes and all that kind of stuff. And we'll also soon be able to have stream recordings and whatnot. It's really like a true 24-7 live stream. Yeah. It should be good news. Yeah. And one of the things that we did to work around some Comcast issues, and really, if

you think about it, this is so perfect, is we set up a droplet on DigitalOcean, which is, of course, a sponsor here on Linux Unplugged. Two droplets. Oh. One that's like a big rig. Like if you go over to DigitalOcean.com and use our promo code DEOUNPLUGGED, you'll get a $10 credit and you can try out some of these rigs for free. They even have hourly pricing, so you get like the $5 you can try it out.

I love that hourly pricing. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I decided I went for one of my biggest droplets yet. Ooh, how big? Yeah, I got a $40 a month droplet. I get 4 gigabytes of RAM, a 2-core processor, 60-gigabyte SSD, and 4 terabytes of transfer. Now, this thing's going out to Ustream.tv, Scale

Engine, YouTube Live, right? You got all these and the audio stream, and we want to add more. So I wanted something with a lot of processor power. Oof. What was really cool, though, is we started at the $5 droplet as we just tested the theory. Right. And then we just incremented it up as we needed it. It is so nice. And we're going to take

advantage, so Noah mentioned that we'd be starting and stopping the live stream by using a bot in our IRC chat room. It's a really sweet API they have to do this. So we'd be using an IRC bot. We'd turn droplets on and off. Oh, that's lit. Right? DigitalOcean.com. Use the promo code D01PLUG.

They start at $5 a month. You get 512 megabytes of RAM, one blazing fast CPU, 20 gigabytes of SSD, and a terabyte of transfer. Because they're all SSDs, y'all. And they have super fast rigs. All the different Linux sizes you'd want. Core OS, CentOS, Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu, of course. They also have free BSD. They have data centers

in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam, London, Toronto, and Germany. Just pick whatever makes the most sense. They have a brilliant interface. Really good stuff. Really great dashboard. It's made like, for example, so Noah could just manage these as droplets with no effort. As I'm setting all these things up, I can just check his SSH keys, and they get added

as the droplet gets created, and he has login. It's good to go. So easy. I love DigitalOcean. You will love it, too. Use the promo code DEO, unplugged, one word, lowercase, and support this show and get yourself a $10 credit and go try them out. They have the great interface. They have great guides and tutorials, super, super, super good documentation.

And now they're just running even more of our infrastructure. When we want a Linux server on demand, this is where we go. With great bandwidth, great connectivity, DigitalOcean.com. Use the promo code DEO. Unplugged. You know, before we get into the Firefox news, I should mention that Wes did bring us some brewskis, as has been tradition for quite a while now, and one that I love. I'm not going to complain.

And did you know that this is Alassian's flagship beer? Alassian. Alassian. This is Alassian or whatever you call them. Aslan, I don't know. Aslan, I believe. Not Aslan, huh? This is theirassian's flagship beer. Alassian. Alassian. This is Alassian or whatever you call them. Aslan, I don't know. Aslan, I believe. Not Aslan, huh? This is their flagship beers.

One of them. The Batch 15 IPA. So let's go ahead and... A medium body, citrusy, and unfiltered. What are you thinking? Have you been drinking this? Another Northwest brew. This is actually...

Speaking of LinuxFest Northwest from Bellingham, this beer is from Bellingham. It sure is. Brewed in Bellingham, Washington with 7% ABV. That's not bad. Yeah, it's pretty good. You enjoy it? Yeah. You know, it's hoppy, but it's not too hoppy.

Like, as it finishes there, you want more, but it's not. That's exactly how I would put it. It's not cloying in your mouth at all. You nailed that. Just as it was finishing, I was like, as I was swallowing it, I'm like, this is, like, as I'm swallowing it, and you're saying, it's not that hoppy. I'm like, dude, what? This is super hoppy. And this, just as it finished, I'm like, I could have more. And you're like,

but then you could have more. I'm like, you nailed it. That's exactly what it tastes like. And, you know, it's right from our own backyard. Kind of appropriate. So, that's what we will be enjoying during the show today. Alright, let's talk about Firefox 46, finally released, and it's really, truly, genuinely, actually, honest to goodness here.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present Firefox with, you guessed it, GTK3 integration. No way. Yeah, it's true. And I know Mr. Colonel Linux is a Firefox fan. I'm going to get to him in a moment, but I wanted to open up to the mumble room first. Anybody out there actually cray-cray enough to try out Firefox 46 and play with the GTK3 integration on the Linux desktop builds? Yes, I plan on doing it.

Okay. I've been using GTK3 Firefox on Arch for like three releases now. Yeah, right. It's been doable. And anything stand out to you? No. I did run into one bug with the dark theme where you get white text on white background sometimes,

which is kind of annoying. But otherwise, it's actually been very smooth. Okay. That bug exists forever. Yeah. We also have improved H.264 and AAC media support, better WebRTC performance support, which— Those seem like good wins. Those do seem like really good wins.

I think no one's going to be all about that using, like, Firefox Hello and whatnot. Now, here is the—and great for the Firefox team—no Snap yet. Right. I thought that was interesting they even bothered pointing that out, but you caught that, too, huh? If there was a Snap, I would install it right now. Yeah, I would, too, actually. I wonder if that's going to start happening. I hope so.

You can actually just go ahead and use it anyway because you don't have to install it. You can download the tarball. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, totally. Let's talk about Firefox and Thunderbird. Mark Sermon, he wrote up a post at his site about Firefox and Thunderbird, a fork in the road. Firefox and Thunderbird have reached a fork in the road, he writes. It's now the right time for them to part ways on both a technical and organizational level.

So Thunderbird and Firefox, time to part ways, he says. A little bit of background. Much of Mozilla, including the leadership team, believes that focusing on the web through Firefox offers a vastly better chance of moving the Internet industry to a more open place than investing in further Thunderbird development, or in continuing to attend to both products. Many of us remain committed to Thunderbird users and want to see Thunderbird remain a healthy community and product, but both Firefox and Thunderbird face different challenges, have different goals, and different measures of success. Our actions regarding Thunderbird should be viewed in this light. Success for Firefox means

continued relevance in the mass consumer market as a way for people to access, share, and feel safe across many devices. With hundreds of millions of users on both desktop and mobile, we have the raw material for this success. However, if we want Firefox to continue and have an impact on how developers and consumers interact with the Internet, we need to move to much more quickly, and we need to innovate on mobile and in the cloud. Mozilla is putting the majority of its human and financial resources into Firefox product innovation. Now, here comes the swing and blow, Noah, for Thunderbird. In contrast, success for Thunderbird means remaining a reliable and stable open source desktop email client. While many people still value the security and independence that come with desktop mail, the overall number of such people in the world is shrinking.

Given these different paths, it should be no surprise that tensions have arisen as we have tried to maintain Firefox and Thunderbird on top of a common underlying code base and a common release engineering team. And here's what they're going to do. On the organizational front, they've hired an open source leader like Simon Phelps. He's going to look at different long-term options for a home for Thunderbird, including perhaps the Document Foundation, perhaps GNOME, or the Mozilla Foundation and the Software Freedom Conservancy are also on the list. With the right technical and organizational paths set forward, both Firefox and Thunderbird will have a better chance of success and dramatic reading. In other words, while Mozilla over the last years has had time to try everything from phones to sticks and everything in between.

Even a browser. What we don't have time for is an email client. An open web is important, but an open email ecosystem? Have you guys heard of Gmail? What do you think, Noah? I think that Thunderbird is single-handedly the most popular client I see used on Linux desktops. And it's kind of a huge disappointment that the Mozilla Corporation is either unaware or chooses to willfully ignore that user base. And it seems like, you know, I've tried KMail.

I've tried a lot of different ones. But like you, I have a large inbox. And I don't like going to the web for my mail. I like having a mail client running, especially on my workstation at home, so that I'm quickly alerted to incoming emails and stuff like that. And if they pass it off to somebody else, or if they decide to abandon the project completely, I really hope that whoever picks it up, steps it up a little bit. It doesn't need to be updated a whole lot. It just needs to work and continue to function the way it is.

It's good enough. You know, ironically, that's their main complaint is they don't want – see, this is what actually strikes me is they talk about success for Firefox. It means continued relevance in a mass consumer market, chasing mobile, focusing on the cloud. And they say, in contrast, Thunderbird means remaining a reliable and stable open source desktop email client. Almost like saying, in opposite of our goals of Firefox, Thunderbird needs to be stable.

What? What? What kind of logic is that? In contrast, they are literally saying, in opposite, that's another, in contrast,

Thunderbird, for it to be successful, needs to be stable and an open source desktop client. They're saying – what does that mean for the goals of Firefox? Go cray-cray? Go crazy with mobile? Go crazy with the cloud? And stability goes out the window? It seems like it is absolutely a core focus of Firefox to have stability. And that in no way, in no way detracts from Thunderbird. I don't make this logic

makes no sense to me. Yeah, it's pretty iffy. Now, should they be doing it if they don't want to do it? Of course not. Right. Of course not. I don't know. Anybody in the Mumbler have an idea of where maybe it should go? The Conservancy has already said

that they would take in the hosting and they would also be open to like a Thunderbird Foundation split. The other ones haven't really said anything like that. In fact, I think maybe Simon's report might actually be out as we record this. Yeah, it's been out for about an hour now. Yeah, okay. The interesting thing is that the change between mozilla and thunderbird has already happened and it happened like 2012 so this this change is actually a good thing because mozilla

has already washed their hands of thunderbird they're just kind of a little bit still putting their foot their feet in the water but thunderbird doesn't want to be associated to Mozilla anyway because it limits them in what they can do for their base, for the runtime engine and everything. So they can actually improve Thunderbird overall. So this is actually a good thing, even though it sounds weird. No, I actually am in complete agreement with you. I guess I wish that the priorities lined up differently. MiniMC, what do you think?

I guess I wish that the priorities lined up differently. MiniMC, what do you think? Yeah, I think it's the release of philosophy for Firefox. If you have new technologies, implement them and do changes afterwards. While with Thunderbird, you need still a stable client. All right, so here is the – the register has the report that Simon put out a bit ago. He says Software Conservancy and Document Foundation seen as ideal new homes. They need technical hosting.

They need finance and staffing and governments, dispute management, leadership, and trademark management. Now, the Software Conservancy has already agreed to take over Thunderbird of Ast, FIPS says, which is pretty great. Wow. Yeah, remember, that's also where Inkscape lives, Git, and QMU. On the other hand, the Document Foundation, you know, over in Germany, is close to the largest national community of Thunderbird users. So I guess there's another, yeah. We'll see where this, you know, we'll follow this. I guess GNOME Foundation wasn't super probably up on the top of the list

because they're already kind of tapped out these days. Yeah, they said that they wouldn't be able to handle such a change at this moment. Well, it's good to see people stepping up. It's an important project. I like the fact that Mozilla is opening to let them use the trademark, even though they're probably going to keep the trademark, but they're going to let the Thunderbird project keep it. Yeah, good point, good point.

Mr. WW, do you have any final thoughts on the Thunderbird situation? I think Thunderbird is an insanely reliable client. It's been rock solid for me. I have literally thousands of emails in it, and it doesn't take over 300 megs of RAM. But on one end, this is going to put a lot more pressure on Firefox. People are going to be looking closer at them and saying, okay, you're done with Thunderbird. You moved on. What are you going to do for us now?

What are you going to do to compete with Chrome, with Microsoft Edge, with Vivaldi? Are you going to be able to fix issues that you've had? People, I'm sure, are going to be looking at them more closely now. Yes, I think I will be.

Yeah, definitely. All right. One last update before we get into some of the meatier topics. Last week, I think it was, we mentioned that one of the first reviews of the Ubuntu BQ tablet was pretty sour on it and not very positive. Nope. Now, Jack Wallen has his review out at TechRepublic.com, and he's got a little bit of a different take on it. And I think I like this one better because this feels more like a more longer-term, bigger-picture Linux user who's trying this. Someone who's open to it as well.

Yeah. Somebody who might be coming at it more from my perspective of I'm okay with rough edges if I can accomplish X and then just stick with it as it develops. Here's what he said that grabbed my attention. Now, he's also got screenshots of what LibreOffice looks like on the thing and whatnot. But he says this. The only real issue with running full-blown version of LibreOffice on the Ubuntu tablet is the toolbars and menus, et cetera, are really on the small side because the resolution is super high. So you better have good vision. But, you know, he said, like, for example, he ran the GIMP.

It's ready to go on the Ubuntu tablet, and here's what I really loved. The second the Ubuntu tablet connects to the wireless mouse, it switches over to desktop mode. That's when the real magic happens. All of a sudden, I'm working on a tablet that is in full multitasking mode. Windows act like Windows in the traditional sense. They can be resized, minimized. Everything you've grown up to with on the desktop.

Oh, that does sound really nice. Yeah, it does. Yeah, it does. I mean, he says the only issue with the Ubuntu tablet is when you switch to desktop mode, you do lose some horsepower. There's some significant lag in the cursor movement and apps don't seem to open nearly as quickly. You know, that might be one of those things you've got to wait until the next tablet. Right, I bet it implements over time.

Yeah, and it could be. But he ends it in conclusion. I don't want to spoil it for you guys. He has a great write-up, but I haven't leaked it in the show notes, too. But he says, canonically, I am seriously impressed. He says, in desktop mode, I can actually get my work

done in a similar efficient manner as I would if I were standing right at my desk. That is, you know, that's sounding a lot better than the last review we read. Do you think so too, Mr. Colonel Linux? I do. I've actually for a number of years been looking for a solution, a small portable solution that I can take with me everywhere. And when you say a number of years, you mean like 10. Yeah, yeah.

It's basically kind of been what I've always wanted, but it seems like there's no place, it seems like either my laptop is inconvenient to take places or bad things happen to it sometimes. Which we'll get into. So, but if I could have a tablet, but the problem with the tablet is every time I try to use a tablet operating system, right, like I get stuck and bogged

down in, it's good at tablet-y things, but I can't actually do desktop things. So the ability to switch back and forth is absolutely essential. Joe, you had a chance to play with it on Sunday. Yes, thanks to Wimpy at the Egg and Raspberry Jam. Nice. And the thing is, okay, if you look at it from our point of view, it's a great tablet in that you can get XMirror running,

you can get LibreOffice. But then if you actually step back out of our little bubble, our kind of free software bubble, and think of it as a consumer product, the thing is absolutely terrible. I mean, you know that gesture where you swipe in from the right and you get all of the recent applications? That was all juddery and whatnot. And just the whole experience was not slick at all you know compared to my nexus 9

running stock android it's it's just a joke really for you know as a consumer product and i don't know maybe we're here to discuss the the benefits of it um you can run proper terminal applications on it you can do everything you can with the Linux box, basically. But for the general public, and that's how this was sold to me, at least. If you look at the websites where you can buy this thing, it looks like a consumer product. And the fact is, it is not a consumer product. It's not ready for market yet.

Mr. Poby, I'm sure you must have some response to this. Hello. Sorry if my audio is terrible. I'm in a hotel room in Prague. Thank you for joining us, even in the hotel room. That's awesome. So interestingly, I got to play with a BQ M10 for the first time today, other than the one I looked at Joe playing with over his shoulder at the weekend. I understand that the performance is pretty bad with the OTA that

the device is shipped with I think OTA 9 and then the first update you get is OTA 10 and as I understand it there's a bug in OTA 10 which makes the MIR performance pretty terrible which is now fixed which should land in OTA 11 so the performance should be improved quite dramatically.

I haven't tried all of the gestures that Joe was, but I will certainly have a play with it tomorrow and see if it's as bad as Joe makes it out to be. But as I understand it, it should be better in OTA 11. You know, Poby, one of the things that I kind of got on Libram's, or Purism's case for, was it felt like they were marketing towards super, super, super freedom-aware users that would require things like core boot and no binary blobs,

yet were shipping a device that had a proprietary blob and is not totally free, doesn't use core boot. And I was like, well, why didn't they just market to a different crowd? Why not market this to the tech enthusiast crowd? Is it just not simply a big enough market? Because it seems like that's all who's really going to end up buying it in the first few generations anyway. So you could end up saving a little face by just saying, well, this is really sort of for the technical people.

I know you don't have an answer in terms of what the company's take is, but personally, do you think it maybe would be better to target more geeky people to set expectations? Well, it kind of is. We repeatedly have said, well, maybe we're giving out a mixed message. Maybe the marketing looks like it's consumer grade and it's aimed at normals, despite what we internally feel about, you know, we're not expecting this to be everyone who's got an iPad is going to go and buy one of these and replace their iPad with one of these.

Like, we're not stupid enough to think that. And similarly, you know, I know Joe has a Nexus 9, which he covets greatly, and I don't expect him to replace his Nexus 9 with an M10 either. I think, bear in mind, this is our very first tablet. Yeah, we've had two major phones so far, the BQs and the MX4, and now this one. I think we're still iterating on things. And, yeah, it's not ready for my mom yet, certainly.

And we've had this conversation before on Unplugged. Unlike any other Ubuntu experience, though, this is so closely tied to how good the hardware is. Because, you know, you get it all as one package. tied to how good the hardware is because you know you get it all as one package and so it's going to take a couple of iterations of bq's hardware too to get better and better for the higher end stuff to reach the right price point and the os experience like switching apps stuttering is going to suffer for a while right i mean isn't that and and the flip side is like for the first time last night in a bar, I held a Meizu Pro 5 that I had not seen before. And oh my god, that is light years ahead of every other device that we've had before. Right.

It's super fast, super smooth. The UI is much slicker than all of the devices we've had before. And I picked up my EQ 4.5 this morning it was like oh my god so wimpy you disagree with me on the hardware front you think the bq tablet's in pretty good shape right now as far as uh horsepower goes i do i and just generally the build quality of the hardware is very very good i've i've got a Nexus 9, and most of my family have a Nexus 10. So comparing it with the Nexus 10, it's a lot more trim and lighter. So the hardware, I've got no complaints at all.

I think hardware-wise, nobody's going to be disappointed. I've got the full HD model as well, and the screen is very, very good. So no complaints there there you can definitely feel the performance i've used um up and to for devices on some of the nexus devices nexus 4 nexus 7 and the bq5 and this is you know significantly better in terms of performance despite you know some of the bugs that exist in some of the transitions when you've got the desktop mode enabled. That's where I really want the horsepower, too, is if I'm in desktop mode, I'm working.

Yep. If I'm in tablet mode, I'm probably consuming content. That seems likely. Browsing the web, whatever. Yeah. Oh, boy, Wes. So what do you think? What's your gut tell you on it?

I'm excited to play with it. Yeah? You know, I don't know. Maybe it's not ready for a mass number of people, but we're on the track, right? Like, it's out there, and it's real, and it's going to get there. When does it get to the point where next time Wes is shopping for a tablet, this is a serious contender? Are we there yet? First, I have to actually shop for a tablet. Yeah. But this is kind of, like, making me consider tablets again as a piece of technology I might want to buy. So kind of like me, you've sort of lost interest in them.

You have like one, it lasts forever because all you do is like look at Reddit on it. Or watch Netflix. Or watch Netflix or JB, right? Yeah, yeah. So like if there's something, suddenly I can just throw my backpack and then, you know, if at work

and then there's like a spare monitor, I plug it in and there's my desktop. Yeah. I could use that even if there's some rough edges. I could tell you for sure, not to put words in noah's mouth but i could see like on a trip like this a uh a tablet that could also double as a desktop would have been super handy right right well i can tell you this it it wouldn't have been the tablet wouldn't have gotten relegated to throwing on the kitchen counter and saying here see if you can find a use

from this to control some other hardware because i don't really use it so it's just been sitting in my backpack the whole time yeah he donated a a nexus tablet too for us to use for some production stuff uh joe i would be curious to hear your thoughts on the maru yeah so maru is a rom for the nexus 5 which is basically aosp it just is really boring android until you plug it into a screen and your Bluetooth keyboard and mouse. And then, and then suddenly, yeah, then you've got a full Debian desktop and I put it on a Nexus five and I took a little selfie video, then another video of it working. I downloaded and installed GIMP and OpenShot. I made the title cards in GIMP, edited it in

OpenShot, extracted, uh, exported it, uploaded it to YouTube, all on the Nexus 5. And, you know, the thing about that is that it's taken two existing things that are solid. Android, we know, is a great platform. Debian, that's a no-brainer. And instead of trying to reinvent things and the not-invented-here syndrome, you've got a situation where the developer of maru has taken these two solid platforms put them together and you know that that's exactly what we've been talking about this idea of i can carry around a phone um and do or you know there's no reason you couldn't do it on a tablet as well and then get to work plug it in and have a full desktop you know instead of

trying to reinvent things sometimes it's better to just combine you know stand on the shoulders of giants and combine things that are good already. I think that's a pretty sound and pretty often heard argument. And I would say that this is sort of it playing out on a major grand scale that we're all going to sit back and watch. And it's not just this particular stuff too, right? It's also other things. I mean, Windows has been big on their version of convergence. Yeah. Yeah. So we're well, and I think, particularly with

Canonical and some of the decisions, we're just going to see where this goes. And I don't know yet. I think it's too early to call. I think we'll have to see where they... And we'll have to see how the other part of the picture is, how the updates are delivered to the device, how regularly, and how much of a difference that makes. I think all that kind of plays a big

piece, too. You know, Noah, it strikes me that we should totally load Maru on that Nexus 5 that I bricked earlier this week. Sure. Yeah. We should totally do that. I can install it on mine, too. Oh, you're crazy. You should do it.

I'll have it for next week if you want. I'll do it. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. We'll do a little take on it. We could do it together. Oh, my gosh. You know, I should mention that throughout this episode, I've been installing Atagross on the Apollo.

That sounds nice. I decided to step away from Ubuntu 16.04 for a bit. Safe havens of Arch. But I didn't format. I drive swapped, hence the story about drive swapping. So I can go right back to 16.04 because we had some spare parts. I kind of downgraded in terms of total storage. So I'll probably eventually go back to the Ubuntu drives.

But I didn't want to wreck that install because it was actually a pretty solid install of 16.04. So I'm going to tell you guys more about that. But before we get into all that stuff, I also want to cover some LinuxFest Northwest clips. There was some good stuff, including one time where Wes stopped by the booth. Oh, that's right. Yeah, so if people are watching the video version, They're going to get to see what Wes looks like here in just a little bit. Hey, a little surprise there. But first, I'm going to mention our friends at Ting. This is luck of the draw. It's different everywhere you go, but sometimes you

just really score with your mobile service provider. That for me was Ting. You go to linux.ting.com to save. They have a CDMA and GSM network. And that's going to be key here. I'm going to tell you in just a moment. Oh, man. But here's what's great. No contracts, no determination fee, and it's only $6 for the line. And then you just pay for your usage on top of that. That's all you pay. You don't have to pre-buy minutes and messages and megabytes and all that stuff that you

might use. I might use 800 minutes, and I might use 10 gigabytes. That's just not a game you play. It's super simple to activate your devices, especially the Nexus devices. You just put the SIM card in and activate the SIM card, and you're good to go. They have radically good customer service, radically better than the rest of the industry. Their dashboard also is just fantastic. But we just are super lucky. Bellingham just has crazy good Ting coverage. In the expo hall, sitting at the booth, Noah and I have LTE coverage.

Nice. Which, to be at a conference and have LTE coverage is so nice. And because a lot, just about almost all the JB crew there was on Ting, we all had connectivity. So we could message each other, and it was crucial to making it a smooth Linux vest. And a huge part of that is being able to choose your network. CDMA or GSM means that you can pick whichever is stronger in your area and be able to do that. If you know what those things are, if you know there's something called GSM and CDMA and you vaguely know what they are and you can vaguely look up coverage

maps, you're good to go. And Ting is super easy when you understand that difference, and they make control all yours with their excellent control panel. We're doing all this stuff. We never have to talk to customer service, nothing like that. It's a really good service, and they have really great staff. In fact, they just recently did a blog post kind of about how they make their margins between different towns and how they're making money on fiber internet rollout. They're just really open about that kind of stuff and transparent.

So you can check out their blog. But first, go to linux.ting.com so we get the credit. Noah showed up with a $9 SIM card, which was awesome. I ended up using that. They have the Motorola E second gen, which I don't think I would want for myself when I could get the LG Volt. But the Motorola E second gen, $74, unlocked, you own it. I would go for the LG Volt 2, though, because Marshmallow's coming out for that.

Yeah. $66, no contract. You can do most everything you really need in a phone. That's ridiculous, right? And it ships tomorrow. It's got a decent camera on the thing. It's got tri-band LTE connectivity. It's got, like, that faux metal back with the little thingy there.

Oh, the thingy. The thingy. What's that little, you know, it's got that little shutter button right there. I mean, This is seriously... And a quad-core Snapdragon processor for $66. And it's going to get Marshmallow. I don't know if it has it yet because they just released the press release

a little bit ago. They also have internet phones. They have the Blue Dash, which is cool for $103. Unlocked. All of these are no contract. Netgear Zing is my MiFi that I use. I've been thinking about getting one of those. Yeah, that's what I use. I love it. You can check them out.

They have like the OnePlus on there. Or you can just go get like the Nexus. I don't know if they're still on sale at Google Play, but they were recently. And then you just grab it and put it on the Ting network. Just start by going to linux.ting.com. That supports the show, lets them know you heard about it here. That keeps us on the air. And it gives you that discount.

Or if you already have a device you can bring, it will give you a service credit. linux.ting.com. LinuxFest Northwest. You guys couldn't all be there, turns out. So we wanted to give you a little flavor. In the unplugged program, I cut things a little loose. So I didn't cut it

like in last, you know, we'll put some transitions in there. I cut it right to when we do the introduction. It really stands out in the clip where I introduce you. You'll actually see me reset and then introduce you, but I just left all in there because this is the unplugged program. Casual. I'm going to show you guys everything. Let's actually start with something that happened

before we got to LinuxFest Northwest. Now, you might have noticed in last week's episode, something that happened before we got to LinuxFest Northwest. Now, you might have noticed in last week's episode, 141, the energy was really high. We were having a good, rambunctious time in last week's episode, and this is how it goes. You got all these projects. We're finally reunited in person. We get to work on all these things. We get to do all this stuff.

And so last week, we all kind of huddled in the studio because it was a full house, and Noah and I were sharing a microphone. Well, that was a really dumb idea. You might notice we're not doing that this week. And Noah had to pay a very high cost, and the question came up, if you listen to last week's episode, you might hear something that kind of sounds kind of like something falling over, you know, something that something that may be tipped over. And you might hear your host get really stressed out for a few moments.

Well, I'm not going to say exactly what happened because, well, we covered it on the live stream. Somebody noticed and asked us about it. Of course, does West. And by the way, I am not drunk in this clip. I am not drunk. Was I drunk at Linux Fest? Did I have anything to drink? You didn't have time to get anything to drink

No, no I was dehydrated, if anything But just exhausted Because we'd worked so hard up to this point It was a bumpy day, tech-wise And I was so happy when Wes showed up It was good to see a friendly face Of course, Wes You know how sometimes you're doing a show and things happen and you just

got to keep doing the show. Like, maybe you got to go get a beer. So one of us gets up and grabs a beer and the other guy keeps doing the show, right? Well, also, same thing happens when you spill a beer. That does happen. So we were doing, Noah and I were sharing a mic in Linux Unplugged, as you recall. What, you want this? Yeah.

And Wes is sitting there with us, doing a show. Very fun. And I was going to switch a camera shot and I knock over my beer right on top of Noah's thinkpad. And it was great because it wasn't like beer splashed.

It was like a glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug. Yeah, that sound happened. And I think all of us in the studio were like, oh, crap. We can't say anything. What do we do? Let's be very quiet. So all three of us just start silently communicating while we're still doing the show. That was amazing.

It was an intense moment. Yeah, it was an intense moment. What's funny was I went back and listened. There's, I mean, if you know what you're listening for. You can hear the beer falling.

You can just, you can tell, but if you didn't know what was happening, I don't know that anyone would know anything was up. You have no idea. It's great we just gave that away.

You can hear a beer fall over in the episode, but you can't hear it pouring on the laptop. No, you don't hear the glug, glug, glug, glug. Yeah, yeah. But you hear the

funk, funk, funk. Well, yeah, and you also, you can hear like the stress in the voice. Oh, you don't hear the glug, glug, glug. Yeah, yeah. But you hear the funk, funk, funk. Well, yeah, and you also, you can hear, like, the stress in the voice. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Oh, you can? A little bit. That's funny. So what was the outcome of that?

Well, it became a project to take it apart and try to drain it. Yeah. Now it's in this UPS box on its way back to Lenovo to get fixed. Actually, it's not Lenovo. It's actually a guy that runs a YouTube channel that teaches people how to fix their computers at the component level, like the soldering and stuff like that. So if you have a MacBook or ThinkPad or anything, and the controller goes out in it, Apple will tell you that you need to buy a new computer, that it's not repairable.

Right. And he will show you how to buy a 39-cent component and solder it back a new computer. It's not repairable. He will show you how to buy a $0.39 component and solder it back into your computer. You know he has a good YouTube channel because he led me to believe that I was so confident in what I could do that I could fix my own computer, which did not work out well at all.

So now I'm going to send it to him and he can fix it. Someone more confident than you probably could have. Yes, that is true. That is true. We were sad because... That is really sad. It looked like it might just be a simple keyboard issue. Right.

And then, of course, in the disassembling to try to resolve the keyboard issue, it doesn't really go back together. By the way, whoever came up with the ribbon cables, screw all y'all. Screw all y'all. Yeah. I want a little white connector with individual pins

that I can plug in and unplug. Dude, I'all. Yeah. I want a little white connector with individual pins that I can plug in and unplug. Dude, I got it. Yeah. Lasers. Lasers. So as Popey would probably point out, the ThinkPad should have been fine, right, Popey? The ThinkPad, it has the drain holes. It should have been okay.

It's Enterprise hardware. Yeah. I mean, Popey, he's like a fanatic. So he knows about these things. And of course, well, you would think so. But first, before we get to that, this, just because you couldn't see what happened, Noah wanted to recreate how things likely went down in the studio if we could have said something to each other. This is that moment. Oh, my God.

I am so sorry. I did not mean to do that. It was totally accidental, but here's the thing. I'm on air doing Linux Unplugged, so if we stop right now to address this, we have to start the entire episode over because we recorded all in one cut. And my feet are really nasty

because this is sticky and there's stuff all over, so paper towels could get in here. That'd be great. That was pretty much it. I like that you put on my shirt to do that, Noah. Although, you know, you didn't get the collar quite right, I'm just saying. That's right. Yeah, it. Yep. Yeah. I like that you put on my shirt to do that, Noah. Although, you know, you didn't get the collar quite right. I'm just saying. That's right.

Yeah, it's okay. It's my data. I aim for the hair to be right, too, but I think I failed on that, too. Yeah. Yeah, the ribbon cables. So Noah tried to disassemble it and make sure there was no beer in there. And the keyboard did get kind of wrecked. Even though it has the drain holes, it got kind of wrecked.

So he disassembles it to see if anything else gets wrecked good news it's just the keyboard so he orders himself a keyboard keyboard arrives turns out the thing doesn't go quite back together quite right i was following i was following a youtube guide and the guy literally in the is like well this cable here i never quite figured out how to disconnect it properly so if you just yank on it really hard, it comes disconnected. And that was about the point where I realized my ThinkPad was screwed. And I should probably send it in to Lewis to get him to fix it. Oh, Noah.

Wow. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So this, you guys got to remember, this was Saturday. Things were a little crazy. It was Saturday. And there was a competition night. The Switch competition was that evening.

And so that's really where a lot of our thoughts were. And Noah, just the thing about Noah is you could try to set things up so that he'll go to bed early, and no matter what you do, he's still going to be up until 2 a.m. in the morning in the lobby of the hotel talking about, you guessed it, he goes down there to talk about

Linux and ends up with a bunch of people sitting around him, and they're all talking about, you guessed it, he goes down there to talk about Linux and ends up with a bunch of people sitting around him and they're all talking about Linux instead of sleeping. We get a little bit of peek of that and then watches Noah pivots from that and starts recruiting him to try to help with the Switch competition. The man is unstoppable. Okay, so now you're recording. So here's a, by the way, I just included a little bit of this. This here is the shot of our booth, if you guys didn't get to see so much of the live coverage.

Sweet booth. Yeah, it was really great. It's Chase in the bottom corner, and I'm over there in the other corner. There's Albert Westra, and there's Jed's butt over there. So you guys can catch that, which is nice. So it was a really cool, it was actually a great booth. And so we were sitting there just kind of getting things fixed up, and Noah's buddy stops by. Did you watch that episode?

I didn't, not a chance. Okay, no, that's fine. So I host the show with Chris, if that is an evidence. You should recap the story a little bit. So I was walking, you were walking in the hotel, and you look over my shoulder and you're like, Hey, is that Linux? Hey, is that Linux? Yeah, I've heard the story.

And then you mistakenly thought you were just going to walk off and go back upstairs and what, go to bed or something? Like, no, that's not going to happen. So I was like, no, come on over here. So then you decided you were going to go get your significant other. And your brother was with you, right? Yeah. Oh, there's your brother. There he is.

Hello, Hussein. That's Hussein. And that's Devin. Hussein. Hussein. And that's Devin. And you're new. Hi, I'm Elkison.

Yes. Okay. Check out his tattoo. Yeah, I like that. Nice, nice. So I'm guessing you use Linux then if you bothered to ink it on your'm Elka. Yes. Okay. Check out his tattoo. Yeah, I like that. Nice, nice. So I'm guessing you use Linux then if you bothered to ink it on your body. He's a Linux user. You're a Linux user?

Yeah. Yeah, okay. You can stay. Crafted on your skin, you better be. Yeah, right. So we sat down. We got a KD tat. What do you think it was?

Like an hour conversation? Oh my God. Hour and a half at least? Yeah. Oh my gosh, dude. What time of night is this? Two in the morning. Yeah, I didn't get to bed before two.

Dude, do you ever sleep? Not when there's people to talk about Linux. You've got to sleep tonight. There was Linux to talk about. He tells me he has to be here at 8.30. I'm like, oh, my God. You know what? I just sleep in.

It's not a big deal. I'm in the dock. I know. And he's got to be live all day. But there was Linux to be had. Yeah, okay. So we talked about Linux. We talked about Arch. we talked about Ubuntu.

Anyway, super, super cool people. Aw, thank you. So you actually travel here every year for the last six years? Yeah, something like that. Five years, four years, four to six years, something like that. So tell me about that. Why do you come all the way from Vancouver to come to LinuxFest? There's nothing like this. LinuxFest is unique. Every conference is unique. But LinuxFest being free and open to everybody

is very like the community in and of itself. And it's just so much different than a paid conference. The talks are more inclusive. People are more friendly. We had a crazy conversation at 2 a.m. Really? Now, you've attended LinuxCon, so you've gone to both sides, I call it, both sides. of this corporate linux yeah can you compare and contrast the two events for me

corporate linux the talks are very more in depth like the speakers clearly work in the field and like there's no question that they know what they're talking about um but at the same time it's kind of intimidating because these are hardcore, heavy professionals. And it's not that you don't get that here. There's definitely those kinds of talks here. But it's more like reading a forum where people just kind of talk and you get more of a community feel

with even the talks. And so, have you ever been to LinuxCon or OSCon or any of the big corporate events? Have you ever been to LinuxCon or OSCon or any of the big corporate events? Have you ever been to that and had any sort of spontaneous, completely unplanned, totally unwarranted community events like we had? Because it wasn't just him. It was him and it was Devin and it was his brother. And then your buddy, Sean.

Sean was there. So it's like we had this little group that just formed out of nowhere. You know, so it's like, we had like this little group. Yeah. That just. Assembled at the hotel. I mean, like right now we have this group that is forming here. So how, you know, can you, you know, have you ever had something like that happen at one of those larger events? It's different.

I chatted with John Mad Dog Hall on the bus to the after party. So, I mean, you know. That's a perk. Yeah, exactly. But it's not the same where people just talk. And I think because you see Mad Dog Hall, it's hard to just interject

in the conversation. And I was talking with that guy at the Software Freedom Law Center. Forget his name. He does some really awesome stuff. Even?

Yes. No, no. Shit. Maybe it was. Yes, it was even Moglin. Yes. And again,

awesome conversation. We're talking on the floor. Crowd forms around us but nobody wants to talk and interject because it's even freaking mobile and you talk to the guy I'm weird, I just like to talk to people I do want to talk to your brother

I do want to talk to your girlfriend but can you tell me what you would say to somebody that maybe is thinking about coming to Linux Fest but hasn't really been here or isn't really sure, they're kind of on the fence. What would you say if somebody asked you what they should do or you having so much experience coming to Linux Fest, what you would say to them? I wouldn't waste their time.

I'd just say come and check it out. You can't know until you're here. All right. Last thing. It's different in person. Last thing. One last thing. This is kind of like the icing on the cake.

You have the cake and then you have the icing. Sure. Tell me about text messages and being concise. Oh, man. Oh, man. You, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tell me this. Everyone needs to hear this. This is a PSA. Kind of like how I did there. I just got three text messages while you asked that question. Oh, my God. In one thread. Yeah, yeah.

Kind of like I did just there where I took ten seconds to organize my thoughts and the host didn't mind. They interjected and said something while I organized my thoughts. I didn't do that here. I'm kind of spamming it out. That's all right. You organize your thoughts and you get it out. In one message. One message.

Because otherwise, and, you know, I have this watch and this watch vibrates every time I get a message. Oh, my God. How does it help you to answer if you get like three spams rather than... One concise message? It doesn't. It drives me... I start to think, oh, there must be an emergency. I better check right away.

Oh, no. It just spread out. It spread out over four messages. And when it comes to an actual emergency, you'll just be ignored. So you're lost, but... Yeah. One message. keep it concise. Can we talk to your girlfriend or your

brother who was ever up, or both? Next up. Noah, that was particularly for me because he knows that... What's kind of funny about this guy, too, is he sits down, right, and he sees a Jupiter Broadcasting sticker on our laptop, and he goes, oh, do you guys listen

to Jupiter Broadcasting? And so I stop for a second to see if he's trolling me, he's serious and he's serious i'm like yeah no we do uh and he's like are they any good the show's any good i'm like yeah hosts are all right that there's one guy in the linux action show kind of darker skin he's kind of a kind of a jerk but all the other everything else but so then then we start talking about the you know the the episodes and stuff and that's when i told him i said you know go watch the ubuntu versus Arch episode. I think that would clarify some of the things that, you know, we were talking about or whatever. But I thought it would be funny if he had seen it before he actually came over to the booth.

And then he shows up at the booth and turns out, oh, that's the guy. So what happens a few moments after that, and this is super funny, is his girlfriend says, no, I don't really feel like sitting down. And I just decided not to. I just, that was a long enough. And I just decided not to. I just that was long enough clip. I wanted to cut it. But the next thing that Noah does when they when they when his girlfriend declines to sit down, he says, OK, OK, will you guys do me a favor? Will you go out and find anybody running windows and tell them to come see me?

And then and maybe it's actually a good thing. I cut it out is then he gives out his telegram handle. He's like, or just have them telegram me. Let's organize this thing because he's getting super competitive. And just as we start getting competitive, guess who stops by for a chat? Guess who stops by? Why, yes, it's Emma. And I had stepped away

from the booth for a couple of seconds. And so Noah and Angela were sitting on the live stream because I was out taking a walk around the floor. I wanted to get a feel for it. And Emma stops by to talk, well, talk about actually switching people to Linux, which is really interesting if you're trying to switch people to Linux. And she also talks a little bit about the Switch competition.

Yeah, yeah. Come over here. Did you hear that we did a hashtag team Noah? I did. Why isn't there a hashtag team Emma? There is now. Hashtag team You pointed that way.

Oh, I was pointing to the sign. No, you were fine. It's right in the center. Learn how to frame, man. I was just pointing to it. I can't see it. The camera got moved, so we're not centered anymore. I can't see it.

You're good. I think that means... I'm sorry. Oh, it's okay. That's good. Team Emma. Hashtag team Emma. So what we're doing here, this is the team that you don't want to go for.

No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. If you want an awesome experience. I'm going to get in trouble now. You're going to get me in trouble. Now my boss is going to see me hanging a sign on our camera that says Team Emo. What are you guys doing to me? This was a setup.

Who did this? So if you're looking for an awesome experience on hardware. Let's say you didn't want to be switched to Linux on your computer. Let's say you just wanted Linux to work on your computer. Then you might consider System76, right? So tell me, how long have you been at System76, Emma? Almost four and a half years. And what do you do for them?

I am the consumer sales manager. And what does that mean exactly? I manage individual sales. So if it's not a business or a university, I'll handle all aspects of the sale, including sales questions over the phone or on our social networks. And that's about it. So do you get a lot of Windows users that call in and want to, that are looking to switch to Linux? Yes.

Everyone starts the conversation with, you know, I'm just so sick of Windows, and I Googled and I found you guys. Oh, it's not. I listen to Jupiter Broadcasting. That is actually very common, too. But you guys have more Linux users listening to your show. Sure. Thank you.

Because I think you guys switch them by having your show. Sure, thank you. Because I think you guys switch by having the show. When people call in, do you guys sell Windows hardware? Like if I wanted to buy a computer with Windows, do you guys ship that? No. So when somebody calls in and they say, I'm interested in a computer, is there a conversation that takes place where you have to convince them that they're going to buy this computer and have Linux installed and use it? Or have they already made that decision when they call in?

A lot of times they've made the decision that they're fed up with it. But then they have some questions about why they're hesitant. So I'll answer maybe five or six questions. And then they'll get happier as the conversation goes. I can hear them smile every time I give them an answer. And they're like, oh, this is sounding great already. This is so much better than Windows. I'm so excited.

So I get them excited. Now, when you're talking to these people, you're having these conversations, what kind of questions are they asking? Do I need virus protection? What kind of apps are installed? What kind of software will work with it? Can I open virus protection? What kind of apps are installed? What kind of software will work with it? Can I open Windows documents? What are some alternatives for certain types of software? So those are pretty much the most common questions.

And what kind of support is there available? And, you know, we offer lifetime software support. So that's a winner too. So you have a one-year warranty on the hardware? Uh-huh. So after that one year, they can continue to call in and ask questions, even if it's not the version of Ubuntu that shipped on their laptop, and you will continue to help them? For hardware, yes. So we don't ever turn away anyone for support.

So we do offer a one-year, two-year, or three-year warranty. So that would cover the cost of the parts and repair. But if you do need a part and you're out of warranty, we'll still get you the part. How many people have called in and said, I am a perfectly happy Windows user, and I don't really have any interest? They haven't started the conversation with switching to Linux, and have you dealt with that? You know why he's asking, right? I know why he's asking. He's asking because he's trying to determine how big of a challenge she faces. What he's trying to set here is the narrative that they're already on the way to switching when they call.

And that's what he's saying. He's sitting over there laughing and shaking his head because he knows that's true. And so this is how competitive Noah is. Even in the interview questions he's setting it up that way. It's so great. You have talked them from, I think I'm maybe not a perfectly happy Windows user

but it's tolerable and it works for me into you need to start running Linux. They're always just so close to the edge. Gotcha. So I'm just that hand to hold. Okay, now I have to ask, if somebody wanted to get in contact with you here at the Fest, is there a way for them to do that?

Yes, they can either tweet to System76 or contact us through our Facebook page. Okay. Or come by our booth. And your booth is one... How do you identify booths? Second to the last hallway. Second to the last row from

the door. I would just call it the middle. They are B2. Oh, look at you pulling out a mask. Look at you being smart. Here's us. There we are. See, and that's... Hey. They're the next row. There we are. See, and that's so... They're the next row, right

behind you, Slug. Thanks. So, that's System 76. Well, thank you very much for stopping by the booth. Yeah, I just wanted to come troll with my... Oh, yeah, that's not trolling. Are you, in fact, Team Emma? Huh? Are you, in fact, Team Emma? I am. Then it's not trolling. I am Team Emma. The only thing

trolling is making me hold that up with my bosses walking. Well, if you were interviewing someone, I was going to come by and be like, oh. That would be trolling. That would be my original plan. That would be trolling out of 10, as we're saying. Oh, jeez, Noah. Oh, jeez. Trolling out of 10.

So, yeah. So that was what's funny. I was watching this back on the replay. I'm like, Noah is totally pumping. And he's thinking to himself, OK, so when they come to Emma, they're already sort of greased to be switching. Oh, whoa. So that was pretty funny to see his wheels turning there. Okay.

So after Emma stopped by, we started realizing we may have ourselves a situation. We had, we started, a couple of things had gone down on the live stream and we decided to get up and go for a walk. And we went, and when we started walking around, we started picking up a little scuttlebutt.

And by the time we made it back to the live stream, we could definitely feel the tension building for the Knights Switch competition. And,

well, I'll let the clip speak for itself. Do it live. We'll do it live. Oh, and Wes stops by, too. Hey, there he is. Howdy, howdy, sir.

Sit down in the hot seat. Have a seat with us. How you doing, Wes? Doing wonderfully. Yeah. Hey, it's Wes. Wes, grab the mic. You've got to eat it a little bit.

You've got to eat that. Oh, hello. You've got to defile when you're ready there, Mr. Chase. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, joining us here in the hot seat is, of course, one Mr. Wes Payne from Linux Unplugged. Wes, good to see you in the flesh, sir. Oh, it's wonderful to be here.

How did the drive up treat you? Not too bad. I thought it was going to rain. It looks like it's going to rain. Yeah. It's an angry day out there. It is. No, nothing.

It's treacherous in the Pacific Northwest. It's actually kind of pleasant. Yeah. You know, it wouldn't be a live stream event without at least a little weather chatter, right? You've got to have at least a little weather chatter because that's what makes filling on the live stream a real experience is discussing the weather. So hold on. Let's play that back. How's it up, Teechie?

Not too bad. I thought it was going to rain. It looks like it's going to rain. It's gorgeous. It's an angry day out there. It is. That is some of the best weather commentary I have ever heard. It's an angry day out there.

And then I just play off. It's treacher day out there. And then I just play off. It's treacherous out there. It's treacherous in the position. A wonderful day for Linux. I've actually gotten a chance to go out and do a little walk around the campus a couple of times. It's nice to be in Bellingham. It is. And tonight should be a pretty fun night.

We have the big Switch competition. Oh. Yeah. And we're going out. How's our main man here feeling? You ready? I'll tell you what. I mean, you were born ready.

We know that. Yeah, I was. You pay attention. That's what I like about you. No, so I think that I really, I got to watch my back because here's what I know. I know that there is no one more dangerous than somebody who is truly motivated. And I was over at the System76 booth. Yeah.

And hashtag Team Emma. Yeah, they are. They're taking it seriously. And the thing is, she has a lot of stuff going for her that I don't have going for me. So, for example, if you switch with me. First of all, the supportive. Well, there's that. It doesn't hurt you to look. But that's not going not gonna help you run linux and you you're like some weird

indian i am so but they haven't deported me yet but no not normally around very many people you know but now think about this if you switch with me the support ends when when i leave right because let's face it uh i'm going back to grand forks and good luck with your in his linux install but now emma's got the system 76 they've got a phone number. They have a whole team full of people on standby to switch. And when you go to upgrade by a different computer or you decide that you need a little bit more horsepower, she can easily just

it's literally just a dovetail into a brand new machine loaded with the same operating system you've already used. So she does have some major, major advantages. Here's why I'm worried. And, you know, the fact that we are in our own backyard does have some major, major advantages. Here's why I'm worried. The fact that we are in our own backyard could actually be

a disadvantage to us. We're a little complacent. Because we're here, people watch the show, they're letting her know that they're back in Noah, right? That's kind of put her back on her heels a little bit. I'm thinking when you get somebody back on their heels a little bit, they're more aggressive. They are.

And the thing is, there will be a counter-pressure to that. There will be a counter-wave. It'll swing the other direction. And I think, by the approach of the evening, support for Team Emma will be building. And you actually, we can see this in the email. People are sending it in. That is high-resolution screen. I'll tell you what. 4K display.

Fancy, fancy. Raving Fan writes in and says, I'm for hashtag Team Emma because she's so happy to help new Windows users get set up with running Ubuntu. That's what I'm saying. She is patient, polite, never makes you feel like you're stupid for not knowing how to add a printer or something like that. Plus, she's pink bedazzled workspaces, and you can't go wrong with that. Go hashtag Team Emma. That's a real grassroots support right there. This is what I'm thinking is

I think there will be a ground swelling for Emma because she's nice. She's got the backing of System 76. She's got a pink thing in her hair that matches her shirt. That catches the eye. Noah didn't bring his glass. He doesn't even have BSD horns. That's a huge conversation starter for him.

It is a huge conversation starter. I'm just a little concerned that... And here's the other thing. We're not doing the switch here at Linux. Right. Because these are mostly Linux users. Yeah. We have to go out into the crowd where we lose our familiar advantage.

Right. So I'm just... Yeah. And I think we may even... Jupyter Broadcasting. What's that, Chris? I know. And to make matters worse, I think we may actually have a defector in our midst.

I think we have somebody who may have leaked at one of our planned locations to Team Emma. It's no way, isn't it? There is a lot going on on top of the fact that we're here doing a show. I forget about the show at some point because there is just so much dynamics to this to keep track of and and you know you got people in the jb crew betting behind the scenes on this thing uh you got you got people now defecting to team emma you have a groundswell in the community it is down to the wire west so so like like every linux fest northwest as much as you can handle and more yes exactly yeah yeah it's an extreme LinuxFest.

Yeah, so then it was just a couple of hours after that that the Switch competition kicked off, and it was nuts. And we will have the final results in Sunday's Linux Action Show. And it was really kind of intense for us as the hosts because we kept it all a secret from each other and all of that. So I'm really looking forward to it. Yeah, it has been crazy. And I have a couple of photos I wanted to share with you guys, too.

This is a great picture here of Noah. This is what he spent a lot of his time here doing is rebuilding computers, swapping parts around. You can see there's just screws and pieces everywhere, paper plates, pizza rolls. Basic fuel. Tab plates, pizza rolls. Basic fuel for the computer building. Tablets, motherboard boxes. This is a picture from the after party where I could only get so many people in one shot. It was just there was people everywhere hanging out around the studio. This is a shot here of some of the pizza.

Here, let me take off the lower third there so you can see all of the pizza. Dang. Yeah, we fed a lot of people. It was healthy eating while we were all here. And then, of course, there's Emma. She stopped by. Oh, that Emma. Yeah, she got in the studio and we had some fun.

Yeah, so it was all good time. In fact, I got a little clip. If you're watching the video version here, just a little clip of us. We went out to dinner after the Switch competition. Whoa, that's way louder than I wanted to. I apologize for that. Here, let me pull it down a little bit here. So just so you can see the venue a little clip of us. We went out to dinner after the Switch competition. Whoa, that's way louder than I wanted to. I apologize for that. Here, let me pull it down a little bit. Here. You can see the venue a little bit. For those of you that are watching. Oh!

And then the player died. I'm on Googs. You know what? Video is hard for Googs. You know what, Googs? I understand. It's been hard for us this week, too. Here we go. Now it's been hard for us this week, too. There we go. Now it's gone. That's the table we took up and the crew that helped us out.

There's Ian from System76 playing on his Game Boy. It was a lot of fun. We went to a really nice place. What was it called? The Boundary Bay? Yeah, the Boundary Bay. Oh, man. Noah, you said it was one of your favorite places we'd been yet.

Oh, hold on. Sorry, Noah. I don't hear you. Sorry, Noah. Hold on, Noah. Get your audio working. But yeah, of course, with Noah's here, we've got to go to a lot of places. It was very good.

That totally worked. We'll have to feature some of their beer. Maybe next week's Unplugged. Oh, dude, Wes, I like the way you think. I like the way you think. And if you want to change the way you think, I would like to point you over to Linux Academy. Go to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged and get our great discount right here on the Unplugged program. The OG source of the Unplugged discount, linuxacademy.com slash unplugged.

It's a great platform for you to learn more. They have 2,379 videos where you can obtain experience as you need to learn and practice right there on their lab servers provided by the Linux Academy. They spin them up on demand. Seven distros you can choose from automatically adjust the course where they have scenario-based labs. You get right in the middle of everyday common tasks, stuff that gives you real-world experience. Instructor mentoring is available on these complex Linux-related topics. Everything built around Linux. Technology on top of it, like OpenStack, Nginx, Ruby, Python, Android development.

You name it, Wes, they've got it, Wes. Graded server exercises are awesome. They have a fantastic technology stack. You know what I don't mention enough? Because I don't want to upset Michael Dominick. PHP. Right? PHP. They have in-depth resources available to you. Instructor help? Dude,

instructor mentoring is the best. In fact, we should mention, I don't know if I told you this, instructor help is available. What? Yeah, Wes, did you know that? How is that even possible? Totally new information. Linux Academy, you dog. Practice exams are also the bee's knees for getting all of your practice in before you actually go out there and try to take the big test. They have enhanced learning plans where you can tell at your availability, and they will customize it for your busy, busy schedule.

AWS, OpenStack, DevOps, anything around Linux, they have the best courseware on it. LinuxAcademy.com. Slash unplugged, And a big thank you to Linux Academy. Go check out also their live seminars and their nuggets. All that good stuff. It's the kind of nuggets that are actually good for you. Two to sixty minutes in-depth resources. Linuxacademy.com

slash unplugged. So, I, as the show has been going, have been loading Antegros on my Apollo, switching it from… Always a pleasant experience. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

It really was. Switching it from Ubuntu 16.04 Unity to Antegros. Ah, yes. And, you know, you could watch episode 413 of the Linux Action Show where we reviewed Ubuntu 16.04 to hear my thoughts on how Ubuntu is difficult to install software. You will also hear Noah's thoughts on why it is not difficult. However, Noah himself has admitted, and I actually think this is kind of a big deal, that Ubuntu 16.04 has kind of disenfranchised him from Ubuntu for a bit.

Noah, do you want to explain what's going on? I have literally gotten to a point where 16.04 is no longer even usable for me. I mean, I have it unloaded on this laptop. Half of everything I was preaching on Sunday was based off the idea that with the LTS, I know that I'm getting limited software, but the

software that is on there will work just fine. Well, as it turns out, 16.04 has screwed even that up, because I can't install the software. It goes into the software center, and I launch into an inadvertent game of ping pong. And then I install G2Buy to install it, and the software might install, but then half of these apps don't actually load properly. And if they do load properly, the menus don't work properly. And if those work properly, I realize I'm not on the internet half the time because my network manager crashes.

And if that works properly, it seems like every every time i turn around there's another problem and how this qualifies as an lts i can't i can i can't as a linux enthusiast and you know you see me all the time right i'm i'm somewhat of an optimist i tend the rick i always calls me the lowest denominator linux like i'm like well if it boots and i can see something i I call it good. But this is beyond unusable. It's beyond unusable. And I'm sure they'll get it fixed, but they have stained the mark of the LTS at this point because they have released, quote, reliable, solid, long-term support software. And it's totally useless out of the box. Yeah, and when we were at LinuxFest, everybody was kind of nodding their heads when we were complaining about stuff.

Joe, what's your experience been? Well, I downloaded it today, 16.04. I'd been busy, so I've only just got a chance to check it out. And one of the first things I wanted to do was install Chrome because that's what a lot of people do. So I downloaded the dev, opened it, opens up the software center or software install, it's called now. And you press install and just nothing happens and then i press

install nothing happened yep and then uh so i thought okay right well d package dash i and then the path to it and then it gave me the the issue about the sha1 problem because they've they've tightened up the security right now for me i know how to get around that but for your average user who ubuntu is aimed at that's's not a very good situation, is it? No, no. I just installed Chrome during the show on Ubuntu. And, I mean, I did it via PPA, pasting from a website into the terminal. But it was the same kind of experience where I was like, I could do it, but that's not great.

So the things that I've personally ran into are sort of disappointing for myself, too. I have had some serious issues with Network Manager, and I've had some issues with Intel Graphics when I'm hooked up to a second monitor. Ironically, other people have had the issue when they're not hooked up to a second monitor. My issues have been when I am hooked up to a second monitor. And if you go back and watch the review, I said this was the most exciting Ubuntu release in a long time. And I still kind of feel that way in some sense. Like, I'm not really hesitant to use it on the server.

Right, exactly. I'm excited it's still there. Yeah, like, okay. LXDE 2.0 is out, you know. They've got ZFS support. Yeah, exactly. They've got... Snap packages will eventually be shipped, I'm sure. I hope. But on the desktop, this has been bad.

And, you know, the Unity version seems to be the worst because I primarily spent my time on Mate and on Kubuntu, and they didn't suffer from some of these problems. There's a lot of infrastructure on those that kind of mask these problems. So I watched back our review today, actually, on LAS, and I ended it by saying I was extremely excited. I've got to say I'm pretty disappointed as far as a desktop experience goes. Just every single day, every single day there has been an application that I have needed that is not available. Literally, every single day. This whole weekend is a little bit of a rare exception where we're doing a lot of things. a rare exception where we're doing a lot of things.

But it has been a... So today I wanted to cut those videos of LinuxFest from our live stream. Right. And this is the video editor we never talk about on this show. It's the best video editor out there. It is, dude. It's called AvidMux. And it's... Yeah.

You can mark an endpoint. And I took videos that were wrapped in the FLV flash container. Oh, I know that one that were wrapped in the FLV flash container, dropped it in AvidMux, marked my in and outs, and saved them out. And I didn't have to re-encode. It just extracts the H.264 in the audio and saves them out as MKVs. So not only did I cut my in and outs in the stream files, but I also converted it from a.flv to MKV without re-encoding the video.

It's a really good tool. I use it for all my clips on Unfilter all the time. It's my number one editor. It's like a nice GUI equivalent of FFmpeg's power and flexibility. And go ahead and try to install that on Ubuntu 16.04. One of the best quick little apps, you'll find PPAs. You can get those PPAs, and then dependencies won't work. You can try to download DEBs from GitDeb, but it won't work. You cannot actually go download a 16.04 DEB directly from the project. No installation candidate. No, there's nothing.

And it's every single week. I'm sorry, every single day. It's an actual useful application. It's not an esoteric, strange app that just got posted up on GitHub. It's real desktop applications on Linux are a pain in the ass to install. And that is an egregious one. And 16.04 has been just really extremely spotty. And I had intended, as of last week's episode, to keep Ubuntu on this Apollo for as long

as I possibly could. And now, using it here, I had to take it off. It was just, I can't even use it for my workflow. It has got to be one of the worst LTS releases for the desktop ever. And I don't think it's impossible to fix. I think 16.04.1 or 2 – So in like six months, your review could be completely different. I would say maybe even three months.

Yeah. But what the hell happened? And they've been so good at releases in the past. Well, I just don't understand what happened. I mean, it's not like – anyways. So we were a little disappointed to – I mean, I think probably Noah the most, but all of us were sort of disappointed in it. And so – and it was also like – so just as another example, if you want the latest version of OBS on Ubuntu, you need to install Ubuntu 14.04. Really?

And even that is two point releases behind. Now, guess what we needed to use this weekend? OBS. OBS. Yep. The only way to get the, so this week, turns out, they revved OBS with Intel QuickSync support and NVIDIA, I forget what NVIDIA is, GPU accelerated encoding,

which we have an Intel i7 processor and an NVIDIA GPU in our OBS rig. And we would love to take advantage of accelerated encoding. The only way to do that cleanly in a package managed environment was for us, we loaded Arch. Wow. And we tried to do that cleanly in a package managed environment was for us. We loaded Arch.

We tried to do Ubuntu. Now up on SATCOM 1 and SATCOM 2, we're still using Ubuntu, but we actually have to use Ubuntu 14.04. So we just had to deploy to Ubuntu 14.04. And that's not totally outrageous in enterprise production, but it is kind of outrageous for us.

So I... Even on the server, we actually have deployed a few 16.04 servers over the last few days as well. I haven't yet, but I probably will soon. Yeah, I've deployed a couple. But I don't think anything... You can just give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down, but nothing in the video production chain

now is using 16.04, right? Everything's 14.04 or Arch. Yeah. Oh. Yeah, the stuff that needs to be more current and need to have the latest support is Arch. And then the stuff that's on the back end that handles all of the back end communications, SATCOM 1 and 2, are Ubuntu 14.04. Right.

And it's kind of an indictment in some sense on the release. Mambo, do anybody have thoughts or an opposite opinion? And it's kind of an indictment in some sense on the release. Mambo, do anybody have thoughts or an opposite opinion? Well, I was just going to say that at least the online search is off by default now. So they've kind of taken that privacy stuff into consideration at last. Yeah. I do like that a lot.

It's, you know, like I think, like I've been saying, I think it's going to be a release in a few months you could recommend to average people to install but i don't know like the software not installing when you click install uh the swap issue didn't get fixed until a couple of days before release it just it gives it like a slam together feeling which is not the impression you want to give for an lts and it see if you're if you're a cynic like me like if you're kind of a jerk you start thinking well you know maybe it's because they had that bq tablet that ended up needing to ship right around the LTS release and they needed to work on getting that ready. And maybe they got distracted. And they also had that bash on Windows project.

Like maybe they were spread a little thin during the build up to a six. Makes you question their allocation of resources. It does. And that's, and I could be completely wrong. But that when you, when you deliver something like this, people start going, well, are they – is this a safe bet? Questions are asked. Yeah, yeah. So I don't want this to be a total downer because I still save those drives and I plan to plug them back in in a couple of months.

I'm still going to do an update. Some deploys here in the future. Yeah, and I still plan to run it on servers. But I just – I think I'm going to hold the brakes. And, you know, I watched – watching that review back, I was all in. I was actually – and I've been saying on this show for months that this is the release I'm the most excited about. True. And I ran it for a month up to the review.

But, you know, the big mistake I made there is because I just wasn't all that excited about Unity is I ran Plasma Desktop and Mate. And truly, you know, Wimpy has really smoothed over some of these rough edges. And it's not nearly as bad of an experience on Ubuntu Mate. And truly, you know, Wimpy has really smoothed over some of these rough edges and it's not nearly as bad of an experience on Ubuntu Mate. And to that end, the machines we have put in production running Ubuntu are on Ubuntu Mate. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it's just sort of the way it's

shaken out. Wimpy, are you still here? Do you have any thoughts on the 16.04 release? I'm not sure if he's still here or not. I can't see the screen. No, I don't think so. I think both him and Popey were from hotel connections and had to disconnect.

I'm curious. Maybe we'll pick his brain. I don't want to overdo the Ubuntu coverage, but I will say installing that Ubuntu Mate welcome package on any 16.04 release really does go a long way. Yeah, I totally agree.

I really do. All right, Mamoru, any closing thoughts on the Ubuntu follow-up before we wrap it up? Going once, going twice. I take that as sort of a tacit agreement unless you disagree otherwise. That's legit, right? Streamer says. Yeah.

OK. Stream says. No disagreement. Yeah. Yeah. Popey had to disconnect. I know. I really think that it's a – okay.

Closing thoughts. Closing thoughts. Really quick. Just to wrap it up because I did share these on the live stream on Saturday. Part of me, here's what I think happened. I think maybe they legitimately got distracted. They had too many things they were working on before 6.04 came out and they have this release date. So much is built around Ubuntu hitting this release state. All the flavors,

you know, VPSs. It's a whole big rolling machine. It's an industry now, based around these LTS releases. And so they have to hit that release state. There's a lot of pressure to hit that release state. Whereas a distribution like Anagross or any, a lot of other ones, I'm just picking on Anagross because that's what we've been messing around

with between the two. They release when they feel like they have an ISO that has enough new fixes or updates to release it. Otherwise, it's just kind of developed all the time. Yeah. It's just updated. They just release iteratively when they feel like it. And Arch just sort of updates iteratively when they feel like it. And sometimes I think you get in a sweet spot where that's a good combination and things are working pretty great.

And sometimes that sync slips a little bit and the spot where that's a good combination and things are working pretty great. And sometimes that sync slips a little bit and the LTSs are a better combination. And right now I think the arbitrary release dates and slamming out the features. Yeah. I mean, really, even like we made a big deal about the ZFS support and it's there. But if you install install the desktop version, you got to install all of the userland packages. There's no user exposed way to actually set it up. You're going down the terminal and using

Zpool and Zcreate and whatever else. Which at that point, you know, the DKMS stuff before wasn't that much extra. Yeah, exactly. Like the DKMS part was like the least amount of work. Exactly. That's my point. And like you're going to have to go buy Alan Jude's book to be able to set up a ZFS on your Ubuntu box. I link that to so many people.

Yeah, zfsbook.com. He just released a new edition. Go check it out. Like, seriously. And again, I am not trying to compare to other distros. But other distros, when you're installing, ZFS is just in the drop-down. I'm not using it to set up ZFS. I'm telling you, ZFS is just in the dropdown.

I'm not using it to set up ZFS, but it's just like how much extra work if you have all the user line utilities available, you have the kernel module available, how much extra work is it to expose that as an option in your installer? How much? If all of the underlying Linux software is there, how much work can that be? And if you're taking this big step by offering it, you think'd want to like package that up as a whole big cohesive thing. And of course they have the excellent excuse of, well, we don't think it's targeted for end users. So it wasn't really a priority to make it available in the GUI, which is a very solid argument except for the very reason that Ubuntu has any relevance is because they made a great desktop distribution to begin with, and people adopted them. This is their thing. That's how Ubuntu got traction.

They didn't start out as the server, as the VPS cloud distribution. They started out as Linux for human beings. Yep. Where's that gone? Where is that? On the phone. Hey-o! All right.

Hello, everybody. End of rant. Heyo Alright Hello everybody End of rant I'm just I just I just I don't know I guess I probably

I probably should get off my soapbox Because in reality I think it's wasted effort It's not going to get me anywhere And that's okay Because I think over time Things will work out I mean you'll get comments

Yeah well Credits for that I think Noah's going to get more comments About his lack of sleep Than I will get comments About my Ubuntu hate So I think we're doing okay. Yeah, Noah at jupiterbroadcasting.com. If you want to send us an email, go to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash contact

and choose Linux Unplugged from the drop-down. Hey, did you know that we do this show live? You can find out about that over at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. We do it live over at jblive.tv where you can find out all about our MumbleRoo. Everything, really. That's true. All of the information is there. All of it.

You can do BangMumble and you'll get Mumble server info. You can go to linuxactionshow.reddit.com to leave us feedback, submit content, things we should talk about. All of that.

linuxactionshow.reddit.com All right, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Linux Unplugged. I'm going to go get some sleep and see you right back here next week. Yeah, we really should say thanks to Chase for running the board at LinuxFest.

Rocking that board. Yeah, thanks to the crew that came out to help us with everything. Thank you, everybody, including you, Wes. It was a great LinuxFest. It really was. Amazing. It was a big, big, big production. All right, jbtitles.com.

Now we go name this beast. Our JB Titles. That's, jbtitles.com. Now we go name this beast. Or JBTitles. That's a good amount of titles over here. I'm going to – so I actually have one more show, which is a lot of work, which is on filter, before I can sleep. So my marathon doesn't technically end until Wednesday night. But then I think we have a prerecorded text now. Oh, that would be sweet. I think he might still be out of town.

And so then I'm just going to sleep Thursday. Kind of wake up sometime on Saturday. No. Build together a life. No, I wish. I wish. But, yeah. All right.

JBtitles.com. Let's go boat. Thank you, Mumble Room. Thanks to Jess.com. That's way more fun. Good show, Mumble Room. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.