LINUX Unplugged - Episode 165: In OpenDaylight | LUP 165

Episode Date: October 5, 2016

We connect with the communities & hardware projects using Software Defined Networking, update you on some of our favorite open source projects, share some anecdotes from a recent trip & update you on our trails with OpenMediaVault.

We're introducing Chromecast Ultra, our most premium TV streaming device today. Chromecast Ultra brings everything you already love about Chromecast, plus even crisper picture and better performance. You will now be able to cast your favorite content in up to 4K Ultra HD resolution with HDR and Dolby Vision support. I'm just going to say, this might be the coolest runs Linux of the day right there. Right, don't you think? That's pretty neat.

That is pretty neat. This is Linux Unplugged episode 165 for October 4th, 2016. Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's full of possibilities. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. I don't know what that means, but I'm going with it, Wes. We're going to find out today. We do have a lot of possibilities coming up on this week's episode of the Unplugged program. Major updates from our favorite open source projects, at least some of them. We'll give you a rundown of the news and

updates that I think you're going to care about, including some really cool tools and something that I've been geeking out about since Wes linked it to me. You know it. Then we'll tell you a little bit more about our trip to the Open Daylight Summit. I'm going to try to also pick Wimpy's brain about his usage of Open Media Vault as kind of a follow-up to an episode we did a little bit ago. And then we have a couple of interviews from the Open Daylight Summit.

And this time, I thought, since we talked about this in the past, we tried to wrap our head around how a major company like Ericsson's using it to roll out 5G networking. How many Gs is that? Five!

And we'll tell you what 5G networking is and why software-defined networking and open source standards are important. Yeah, don't run away. Don't run away. I hope it may be applicable to your life. And then we'll have an interview with Heather and Chris. Heather's from the Linux Foundation and Chris is from Ericsson. I think he's also, he sits on the Open Daylight Project board. And they talk about why the Linux Foundation

cares about this and a really cool continuous testing environment they set up. Remember that? Oh, yeah. That was cool. Yeah. Yeah, and that is,

it's geeky, it's nerdy, and it's so neat. So we'll be talking about that on today's episode of the Unplugged program. But before we go any further, we must bring in that mumble room. Time-appropriate greetings, mumble room. Hello. Hello.

I secretly use Arch Linux. Hello, guys. It's good to have you here. Now, I don't know how many of you were able to make it last week because I couldn't hear you. Oh, I love you, Noah. But I did want to give a shout-out to Noah for episode 164 of the Unplugged program, Dial Up Linux. Thanks, Brown Bear.

Yeah, that was great because we were down at open daylight. And just as we were sort of wrapping up, I tuned into the very end of the show. Yeah, me too. And I think he was in full swing by then. Now, some of you have – a lot of you have written in and said you loved it. Some of you have written in and said that, oh, my God, my head hurts. Don't ever change my unplugged show again, which I thought was kind of funny because it's sort of a no-format show to begin with. I mean, we kind of have a formula we follow a bit, but that's just out of habit.

It's about the closest to the actual, I mean, yeah. But I thought that was pretty neat. I don't know, anybody in the Mumba Room, did anybody have any like director's hats where they were wearing their hat? They're like, gosh, you know, from a director's perspective or from a production perspective or even from a listener's perspective. Do you have any feedback from the dial-in episode, the call-in edition of the Unplugged show? And keeping in mind that I think Noah would very much like to spin this off into its own show one day. So this could eventually become its own separate additional Linux program. So if you have any thoughts on that too, I'd like to spin this off into its own show one day. So this could eventually become its own separate additional Linux program. So if you have any thoughts on that too, I'd like to hear it.

I open it up to you, Mumble Room. There was only a few issues. The main thing is that the Mumble group couldn't say anything. Right. Yeah, there was – and I think he already has that figured out. So that tech problem is solved. I think he's got like a whole new audio rig to do it. He went all in. Other than that tech problem is solved. I think he's got like a whole new audio rig to do it. He went all in.

Other than that, it was great. Yeah, I thought what was really exciting about it is it really could potentially become – well, first of all, we have a pretty big base to pull from just by people that email into our shows asking us questions all the time. And if we just write back, yeah, that's a great question. Why don't you call in on Tuesday? Because a lot of the questions, there's one or two follow-up questions we have. You need a little dialogue and you can really get to the heart of it.

So there's already a good base there to pull from for calls. And then on top of that, the word could start spreading around that, hey, if you switch to Linux and you end up having a problem. There's a support line. There's this guy you can call and he is all about getting people to use Linux and he will totally help you. And that could be a really good thing for Linux. I mean, okay. Probably get other people to do some time on there answering questions. Let's put it another way.

And the Linux, the business side of Linux was interesting. Yeah, that's true. Now, let's put that, here's another way to think of that. Imagine when you switch somebody to Linux. There could now be a support number that you could give them for them to call when they have problems. That would be pretty nice. Isn't that great? I really think this show has some potential to offer some benefit.

So I thought, there's a lot I liked, a couple of things I've already given Noah my feedback. So yeah, thank you to Noah for doing that. So 164, if you haven't heard it yet, Noah hosted while Wes and I were down at the Open Daylight Summit. And he took calls, answered

questions. He had a call screener with a queue. I mean, he really went all out. And the other thing that's really cool about it is he's using free Linux software to do it all. Exactly. Now, unless anybody else, I don't want to cut anybody out. Any other thoughts in the mumble room before we go? Yeah.

Like, I just want to reiterate what Michael said. I, like, without the mumble room participating, it kind of felt boring to me. Yeah. And I'm not saying the show is bad. I think if the mumble room was participating and helping Noah out or they had some insight on it. It would have been a lot better of a show if it was its own show. I can see people tuning into it for sure. Yeah, I mean just for having the backup support, I think it's a good idea to have the Mumble Room there. An extra color.

Yeah, and just to break up the voices a little bit. Rekia points out, and I think this is something I think I mentioned to Noah myself, is voicemail during the week. So if calls run low or something like that, maybe we could just have voicemails that people can play. Noah definitely wants live calls, so that way he can ask them back and forth questions. So that's a key thing. Maybe adding a SIP endpoint so people can call directly

over SIP. He could totally do that. That would be really nice and save some money. Because he was paying for... It was a 1-800 number, but that means he pays for the time. Exactly. Which we'd have to figure that out, too. So this looks really exciting. I think I've already got it downloaded on my machine, just not quite installed yet.

KDE at 20 years old has released Plasma 5.8, and it is a long-term support edition. LTS. An LTS. Today, KDE releases its first long-term support edition of its flagship desktop software, Plasma. This marks the point where the developers and designers are happy to recommend Plasma for the widest possible audience, be they enterprise or non-techie home users.

If you've tried a KDE desktop previously and have been moved away, now is the time to reassess. Plasma is simple by default and powerful when needed. Now, that feels like it's almost written specifically to me. Yeah, right? I think so. Yeah. I think that's...

You're one of those people that could be, you know, easily courted right back. Yeah, and I have tried it before and sort of walked away like a little, oh, well, I had this issue. I had that issue. I'm a little disappointed. And so they are kind of like, if you've been moved away, which is a good way to put it, too. Yeah, that is a good way to put it. Yeah.

Anybody in the Moma room have the 5.8 release yet? Yep. Really? You do? Welcome, Mr. Tonello. Tell me, what distro do you have it on and what are your thoughts so far? Neon. Oh, yeah, of course.

Yep, that's what I've downloaded, too. Yeah. And what do you think so far? I think it's awesome like arch hasn't had it yet but you know so i couldn't test it on that but neon it was like the day of immediately it was actually available this morning before the announcement even happened so i tested it on that and it's really good like it it it's it's very similar to 5.7.5 which i had on that neon's install as well uh but it was really the upgrade from 5.7 to 5.7.5, which I had on that Neon install as well.

But the upgrade from 5.7 to 5.8 was awesome because it was super easy. It was basically just an app upgrade and that's it. But the coolest thing about it is there's nice polish now. It's not like they added a ton of new features. It was mostly just polish. Yeah, I think that shows in the release notes. Yeah, they addressed a lot of things that are complaints from most people, like the whole MetaKey only thing. Yeah.

Or, like, you know, fixing some widgets controls for, like, the audio controllers and stuff like that. And they added a lot of cool, interesting things, like the effort. Why would you want it, other than just being awesome? A video playing in the background when you log into your computer. But that is kind of one of those cool, polished, you know, show off the Linux desktop. Yeah, it's totally cool. And I did use it and it is fun.

You know, it's not necessary, but it is really cool that you could change it in that extreme. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I agree. I had some idea of what the headline features would be because I recorded the voiceover for their video weeks ago. And so I kind of had an idea of what they were focusing on. And it was a good list of stuff. And I think it kind of does echo something they've been saying for a while. We will tell you definitively.

They've been saying this now for a little while. We will tell you definitively when it's ready for the average folk. Should I play the video? Sure. Even though it's myself, which is kind of weird? I'd say do it. Yeah. The EQing they've done is a little differently.

So it doesn't quite sound – I don't know if it even quite sounds like me. You can be the judge. But I thought it was a great video that highlighted a lot of their features, which was... I kind of ribbed them about in the past when 5.7 or whatever came out. It's 2016. It's time to have a video. Up to production.

So they made me put my foot in my mouth, or what's that saying? What's it called when somebody calls you on your bluff? Money where your mouth is. Huh? Money where my mouth is? There was no money transaction. Video? Money where my mouth is. Huh? Money where my mouth is? Yeah, except there was no money transacted here. Video production skills where your mouth is. Metaphorical money. This was just done for the project. There was no money. So it's more like me.

Internet cookie in my mouth or something like that. In my mouth. After a few hard months of work, the KDE community is pleased to announce Plasma 5.8 Long Term Support Edition. This version will be supported for at least 18 months. So if you haven't tried Plasma Desktop yet, take a look at some of its unique features.

With desktop widgets, you can easily organize your files, monitor the system, and quickly launch favorite apps and more. Plasma lets you easily search your desktop for applications, folders, music, video files, everything you have. Plasma's default theme, Breeze, has a unified look across all common application toolkits. Download wallpapers, window styles, widgets, desktop effects, and many other resources straight to your desktop from the KDE store. Using KDE Connect, you'll be notified on your desktop about text messages,

can easily transfer files, and even use your phone as a remote control. Plasma is simple by default, but you can customize it however you like with new widgets, panels, screens, and styles. But this isn't all. Plasma 5.8 brings even more features and improvements to your desktop. This release brings an all-new artwork design, giving you a complete

breeze startup to shut down experience. Support for Semitic right-to-left written languages, such as Hebrew and Arabic, have been greatly improved. Plasma wallpaper plugins, such as slideshows and animated wallpapers, can now be used on the lock screen. Yeah, they did a Rickroll.

You can watch the whole video in the show notes if you want. It's a couple minutes long. So, pretty nice release. So, I think I got it downloaded, and I think Noah's got it downloaded, and he's an LTS guy to begin with. He sure is. So, this seems perfect for him. So, I think we're going to give it a review on Sunday's Linux Action Show. Something to look forward to.

Now, we have kind of an interesting news item. It's a little name collision today. We're introducing Pixel, but not the Google Pixel, not the Google kind. No, this is the Raspberry Pi kind, and it's their new fancy-schmancy desktop environment. Where is it? I have a little definition somewhere here. What did Pixel stand for? Where is that?

Oh, here we go. Pi improved X Windows environment, comma, lightweight. go. Pi improved X Windows environment, comma, lightweight. Yeah, Pi improved X Windows environment, lightweight. And my main takeaway from it is it's not like it's some new X server or something like that. It's essentially a set of changes that entirely are around

the appearance of the desktop. The first thing you'll notice when you reboot is they now have a nice, pretty splash screen that they say they've done a lot of work to not slow down the Pi. Once the desktop appears, you'll notice a nice, stunning background taken by one of their very own, and there's several of them preloaded. You'll also notice that the icons on the taskbar, menu, and file manager have gotten a big makeover, big improvement there, sort of spiffing it up a little bit. If you open up a window, you'll see the window frame design has changed significantly. The old window design always looked a bit dated compared to what Apple and Microsoft

are now shipping. So they were keen to update it. Windows now have subtle curves on the corners, clear title bars, new icons for the open, minimize, and close. Fonts have gotten improved, even with a mention to Steve Jobs. And this is an interesting one. On, I guess, requests by a lot of Raspberry Pi users, they want to be able to shut off the wireless from within the UI,

so now there are options in the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth menus to turn off relevant devices. Nice. Works with Pi 3's onboard wireless hardware and should work on most external Wi-Fi and Bluetooth dongles. I like this. They're packaging in Chromium for the Pi with hardware acceleration. Yeah, so they're switching out from Epiphany to Chromium for the Pi,

which is the Pi's hardware-accelerated playback for streaming content. That's pretty slick. Yeah, they're also including uBlock Origin, AdBlock by default, H.265 extensions, which force YouTube to serve videos in a format which can be accelerated by the Pi's hardware.

And it's available for download right now. That's awesome. Yeah, it is. It seems to be, they seem to be trying to make it a more user-friendly, out-of-the-box OS. But doesn't that sort of suggest, I guess one of the things I liked about Raspberry Pi was that it truly was divorced from any, like I know there's always been Raspbian and they've been close, but it always feels like – it always feels like there's been a divorce there between – a distance, a separation of church and state, if you will, between the OS you run on and the Raspberry Pi hardware. Like I understand that they ship it sometimes with an SD card preloaded. But in my – that didn't necessarily mean that there was an OS all of a sudden that they were going to start throwing in behind to try to promote as like the primary OS you run all the time on a Raspberry Pi.

Maybe I misunderstood? I mean I guess that's true but I don't know if that is really changed with this. I mean maybe it feels more that way but I feel like a lot of people who use it who aren't more experienced, aren't the power users, aren't using it in a project that they know right away, or maybe using it more just to play with, there's a desktop, they're going to follow one of the guides that has them install one of the easier operating systems. So in that effect, there kind of is already a default. I mean, there's not really because of the... This doesn't change anything as far as how stuff is installed because most people are still going to use NOOBS, the NOOBS installer, because it's such an easy process to get installed. And this is not going to be like only this.

They're still having OpenELEC and PyDora and all this other stuff in NOOBS. So it is nice that this will be better. I think it's just improtifying. Just making it look better for having LXDE because LXDE bought it for you. Sure, yeah. I mean I agree and that is a good thing, absolutely. I'm not by any way saying that's not a good thing.

But Wimby, I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are because I know that Buntu Mate is extremely popular on the Raspberry Pi. So it's a device you probably have some experience with. Does this seem like a good move, something that's worth their time? So it's a device you probably have some experience with. Does this seem like a good move, something that's worth their time? Well, how do I answer this without coming across overly negative? The first thing is I think that the browser work with Chromium and the video acceleration is probably the most relevant and interesting stuff to come out of this initiative.

I think that's brilliant. And I'm looking forward to finding the time to have a little look around and see how that's been implemented to see what I can borrow from what they've done there. The name collision is unfortunate. And how that happened, I just can't imagine yeah we've known the name pixel now for i know we had the google pixel is is you know a re-envision of the already existing google pixel so they they didn't really need to do that and they chose and they chose the there was a backer in him they picked pixel on the for in the first place yeah i know i tried to make it work. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

So that's... Still, though, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to go with the name. But yeah, the name Collision is confusing. Yeah. And the thing I'm a little bit perplexed about, if you read the blog post, there's a couple of things that stand out from this. And that's that the guy that's done this, and he's clearly put a lot of work into it, he acknowledges that when he started on this, he had little to no experience with Linux and X and X desktops and all the rest of it.

And it looks like two years of effort have gone into this based on LXDE that people in the linux community know is yesterday's news is the thing that's being replaced so this was my concern to effort into this and it's immediately laden with technical debt and i think that that's really unfortunate that they've built this around something that is effectively obsolete now. Yeah. And I think the art and the fonts and the icons all look really good, but there are also open source licensed theme packs and icons out there that are also very, very good and they're free to use. It felt like to me it was a lot of work on a system that

doesn't have a lot of legs. And it sounds to me also like it is the beginning of something much larger because the way they phrase it in the blog post is currently we focused on appearance. But it sounds like the overall goal is to make a faster, more dynamic desktop. And part of the name, part of the backer name includes the X. It felt to me as if they were going to do everything they could to make it faster on X with LXDE. And I thought to myself, well, why LXDE and why X11? Why are you going to invest in these things? Why is that where you standardize, where you focus?

Yeah. And that new boot screen they worked on, it probably took a hell of a lot of work because like Wimpy said, they spent a lot of time working on that particular thing. It's a very X-focused project. So it does feel like investing on the past of Linux when the Raspberry Pi is such a future looking device when it comes to resources, availability, the ARM platform, the price. Right, yeah, exactly.

It seems to be sort of a mismatch. It does seem like a mismatch. Or perhaps just things that could have been... That's efforts that perhaps would have been better in projects more tightly knit with the community or that have existing communities. It kind of feels like they chose LXDE because, just for the sake of lightness,

not for like basically ignoring everything else. Yeah, you could be right. Yeah. Or just momentum. You know, they have momentum there. That could be that. Well, it's weird because LXDE is only like 10% lighter than Mate. Yeah, we've had that debate and I agree.

I think it also, you can make a lot of different desktops lighter or heavier depending on how you configure them. And we've been also, we've been looking at LXQt and looking at where its resources are, and yeah, there's a little more there, but you're looking at a Raspberry Pi 3. That's the desktop to watch right now. I agree.

Really, really interesting. Besides Mate, Mate. Well, or Unity. Yeah, or apparently. Oh, right. I agree. further. We've got a big show coming up, and I want to thank DigitalOcean for making it possible. I want to thank all of you who use our promo code DLUnplugged. It's one word, lowercase. You apply it to your account, you get a $10 credit. That's a vote to keep us on the air. DigitalOcean is a simple cloud hosting provider dedicated to offering the most intuitive and easy way for you to spin up a server on their crazy great infrastructure. Their pricing is nuts. It's super valuable for the kind of rigs you get and the performance you can get. They got data centers in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam, London, Toronto, Germany, India. I think I'm even missing one in there now.

Any more data centers? You're going to run out of breath there, Chris. No. No, bring it. Bring it! Also, their interface, it's the best. They have a really great intuitive control panel. It gets me fired up about DigitalOcean.

Go over there and try it. And then one of the nice things is they have a really beautiful, well-documented, elegant. Listen to me. What else can I throw in there? Come on. Give me another word, Wes. Elegant. Simple.

Well-designed. Oh, yeah. There you go. I need another buzz term. Blue. Blue. Sure. No, that's not good.

Cloudy. Oh, cloudy. Yeah, cloudy. Manageable. Scalable. Oh, I'm on fire, Wes. I've got it. I'm back in the flow. Enterprise- cloudy. Yeah, cloudy, manageable, scalable. Oh, I'm on fire, Wes. I've got it. I'm back in the flow. Enterprise-friendly. Yeah, ready, secure, implementable, auditable.

Oh, measurable. I got it all, Wes. But really, the DigitalOcean API, what's great about it is it's well-documented, and there's a ton of code already written you can take advantage of. In fact, when you look over there at their community projects page, one that might jump out at you if you are a Unity user is the DigitalOcean Indicator. This Indicator allows you to manage and manage your droplets directly from your panel, fool. You can quickly see which droplets are active. You can reboot, power on, power down your droplets. You can copy your droplets IP like a boost for easy access. And of course, there's all kinds of other great code already written.

You can just take advantage of it. Use our promo code D1PLUG. Get a $10 credit. Go spin up a $5 rig, guys. $5 rig over at DigitalOcean.com. Use the promo code D1PLUG. And a big thank you to DigitalOcean for sponsoring the Linux Unplugged program. Woo-woo.

Yeah, yeah. All right, Wimpy. Don't lie. You're totally stoked about Jasha? Jashaka. Jashaka. Who now? Now, this is a VR world creator.

Oh, move on. All right. And it's GPL. Moving on. So this is actually a story that's worth talking about. Unsafe at any clock speed. The Linux security, Linux kernel security needs a rethinking. This is ours reporting for the Linux kernel security summit.

And here is how they started up. This is how they spin it up. The Linux kernel today faces an unprecedented safety crisis, much like when Ralph Nader famously told the American public that their cars were unsafe at any speed back in 1965, numerous security developers told the 2016 Linux Security Summit in Toronto that the operating system needs a total rethink to keep it fit for its purpose, a.k.a. not fit for the gerb. Strong words. Cars were designed to run but not to fail.

This is Keith Cook. He's the head of the Linux Kernel Self-Protection Project at Googs. And he's an employee that's working at Googs on the future of Internet things security, whatever that means. And he said at the summit that while it's very comfortable while you're driving to go down the road, as soon as you crashed, everybody died in these old cars. That's not acceptable anymore, he added. And in a similar fashion, Linux kernel needs to deal with attacks in a manner where it actually is expecting them and actually handles them gracefully in some fashion when it's being attacked.

Like, don't just do your – he goes to point out we approach security today as though we are just still living in the world of the 1990s and 2000s. Computers in a data center managed by knowledgeable people. But most computers today, laptops, smartphones, and Internet of Things devices are not managed and secured by IT professionals. Especially, right? Yeah. And he points out that the kernel has to be designed in a way that it assumes it's going to be tacked. And then he kind of rubs it in with some stats and details.

And ours sort of does a beautiful job of summarizing this if you guys want to check out the link in the show notes. The clear consensus at the Linux Security Summit was that the squashing of bugs is a losing strategy. Many deployed devices running Linux will never receive security updates. strategy. Many deployed devices running Linux will never receive security updates, and patching a security hole in the upstream kernel code does nothing to ensure the safety of an Internet of Things device

that could be used for a decade and may forever be ignored by the manufacturer. Exactly, right. We've seen this with routers. We see this with Android devices. There's only going to be more. I'm sure Chromecast will be like, we started the show talking about Chrome more. I'm sure Chromecast will be like, we started the show talking about Chromecast. I'm sure Chromecast will be in this category one day.

Worse, the average lifetime of a critical security bug in the Linux kernel from introduction during a code commit to public discovery and having a patch issued averages three years or more. This is why everybody should be rolling. Three years or more. This is why everybody should be rolling. According to Cook's analysis, critical and high-severity security bugs in the upstream kernel have lifespans of 3.3 years to 6.4 years between commit and discovery. That's kind of a long time to be out there circulating. Yeah. Yeah, including they have some pie charts here where they're looking at Android security bugs and they're looking at where most Android vulnerabilities come from. And this is an interesting statistic.

Only 15% of vulnerabilities in Android's kernel came from upstream. Only 15%. 85% of the bugs in the Android kernel came from device driver manufacturers. Sounds just like Windows. It does sound like Windows. So he says the kernel maintainers have to get ready for this kind of thing. They have to build Linux to be expected for attacks, to get it ready. You're going to get attacked, so just design in a way where it can sort of manage that situation. It's funny how much this is a symptom of Linux success, right?

Like now that it's everywhere, you have to start designing for that. And it will be used in situations where people don't understand it or really know what's happening. And you have to plan for all of that. And especially when you're going to be in these, they're going to be built in so many embedded devices that just sit on the shelf. I think the line in there that sort of hit me the best is that bug fixing is just not enough. And because of enterprises where they have slow patch cycles and device manufacturers who don't properly update, we have Linux out there in these devices where there's this really long tail of production because they just work. They just freaking work forever.

Yeah, you don't need a super RAM upgrade or whatever in your tiny... And so that just means it's hanging out there with its fly down for years. It's got its D swinging in the wind. I think it's nice to see more talks about this because obviously a couple years ago there's lots of complaints in the community

and from outside people just about... It did feel like it was the 90s or 2000s. It was a bunch of people just making this kernel, just making it work without really considering the full market effect. And obviously that's hard when it's built in this open source way, but it's nice to see that people are really paying it full attention. Yeah. And what kind of changes will Linux have to make in order to stay competitive? If it doesn't make those changes,

will another kernel come along for these types of devices that does? And I hope they can do a good job of like looking at other kernels, other projects that are more security-focused. OpenBSD comes to mind or GR security people and try to incorporate some of those approaches. Yeah, and what are they doing that is more proactive and not just squashing bugs? Exactly.

Inagogo says, this seems like bad journalism and thinking that developers are robots. Well, it's coming from the developer community and they're just saying we need to rethink. We can't just treat fixing bugs as... So Linus was quoted as saying he doesn't look at security bugs and regular bugs separately because they're all just bugs that need

fixed. And there is absolutely some nice sound logic behind that. But at the same time, there is also a conversation, I think, a conversation worth having around how do we design this thing to be planned to get attacked? How does this thing operate when this thing to be planned to get attacked?

How does this thing operate when it knows it's going to get attacked? It's not just it's going to assume that once you're inside, everything's trusted. Like how do we design this thing a little bit differently? What can we tweak? I think that might be worth discussing. We'll see. A lot coming out of Google security-wise. Project Zero, they have their own fork of OpenSSL.

They have this guy who's working on the Internet of Things future security. And they're attending Linux events. I mean there's a lot. Google's really focused on this right now. They're putting some money in this. Well, I feel like they're trying to be in the consumer space and the vendor space and people. Security is a huge thing that you can be audited for. You need to have to do this help.

All right. I wanted to ask the mummer room because there was a thread on our Linux submitted a few days ago by Dark Delta or something like that. I can't remember the guy's name. Darko Delta or something. And he asked, what are things that you would do to change Linux? Like if you could just snap your fingers and change something about Linux. So we were just talking about the security thing and that's what made me think about

this. If you could change anything, and I want to really throw it to the mumble room, but I'll give you an example. Like, it was pointed out, you know, the security thing could be something that, you know, if you could just snap your fingers and change how security is done, would you change it?

What about you, Wes? If you could snap your fingers, is there something you would change about Linux? Hmm. You like it? I mean, I do like most things. I think there could be something to said about a better not closeness, but there's something about right now, I feel like,

especially just like the, even though there is like the core funding initiatives and that kind of stuff, there's this disconnect. I feel like we talk about the kernel a lot, but are we excited as about core utilities development or a lot of the other parts of the user land? And the BSDs kind of have that a little more rolled in. It's cohesive.

And I wouldn't say they'd change that because I think in some ways it's really cool, right? We have different libraries. I think it's great. But I wonder if there could be a better ecosystem there. All right, let's pull the crank and ask the mumble room. Mr. Tunnell, I believe I heard you. Did you have something you wanted to mention you would change?

Yeah. The most important first thing that came to mind is universal apps. Snap packages for all. Ooh, yeah. App pack and flat pack. Haven't you heard of Docker? You don't even care. He actually doesn't even care.

He just wants everybody to use it. I don't care care. He actually doesn't even care. He just wants everybody to use it. Right? I don't care which one is successful. I just want one to be successful so that game developers, software developers, doesn't matter. They all have one thing to work on, and no matter what distro you choose, you can use the software that's made for the ecosystem. Let's see. I want to ask William if he's near his mic, but I'll give him a chance to think about it.

I'd like to hear from WW too, but Wimpy, I got to go to you since you're a distro maker. You know I was going to ask William if he's near his mic, but I'll give him a chance to think about it. I'd like to hear from WW too, but Wimpy, I've got to go to you since you're a distro maker. You know I was going to ask you this. If there was something you could snap your fingers and change, would it be something about Linux itself? Would it be something about the community, the way we collaborate? What would you change? This is a really tough question. I agree. To think of one thing.

tough question i agree to think of think of one thing uh i'll be honest i've got nothing nothing solid in my mind that i'm just going to say this is the one thing i can think of lots of little things but no one big thing so ask around and if i come up with something i'll let you know that's how i actually feel myself is i don't have one thing. I could think of the way the community interacts from time to time, the way we process information. I suppose... Okay, I have one. I have one. Alright, I have one. I'll save it. William, do you happen to have one by any chance?

I don't think so. Go on once, go on twice. What about you, Mr. WW? Do you have one by any chance? I do have one and it's kind of been a pet peeve of mine since like the 90s. Oh, well, since I first started in getting into Linux with my friends back in the 90s. And that is, I would remove the mindset of people that they think that they should be running Linux on old hardware all the time, or this is the best way to do things, because it's not.

This old hardware is holding us back and supporting it and just keeping it around. It's an old kind of way of thinking about the kernel and development of Linux and not really letting us focus on newer things. Yeah, a mindset. Yeah, mindset. I can follow that. But Mosin-Rath, you had one around collaboration. Yeah, I was

thinking that it'd be nice if, because if you take a look at, say, DistroWatch, all those different distros that you could say didn't make it, if you could somehow, I guess, you would need the most powerful in the universe right american greenbacks go and hunt down say like 50 100 of those people worked on these things and it

just never really took off you get all of those people because they all had ideas maybe they didn't have quite the chops individually but you get a legion of them, right? And you just put them on to, say, different distros which have made it, say, like, one of the top 20. Not necessarily one of the top 10 because those ones are usually backed by companies, but you say one of the top 20 that doesn't have a huge company behind it

and you just have just that legion of literally of wisdom, of experience, of knowledge. I like it. All focusing together in terms of hey, my project didn't work, our project individually didn't work, but we get together as a team. It's sort of like when you're lifting a log,

one person by themselves, that's going to be real difficult. You get 10, 20 of them. All of a sudden, a couple of them say dig a hole here. A couple of them say get some rope here. All of a sudden, you can lift a whole bunch of logs and make a nice little anything that you want with them. Because now you have a team of people all in one, as the song says, one pimp's groove

to actually make it work. Oh, I'm getting a little inspired. Mosin-Rab, that open sauce runs deep. That's a good one. I like that. I'll give good one. I like that. I'll give you mine. I got two. I was thinking about it.

Number one is not a huge one, but I think it would better serve the Linux community in how they inform themselves, how they come to opinions, and about what technologies they'd back if we could get our heads out of our ass and drop the whole cult of personality. It's something that Aaron Seigel wrote about years ago. I continue to think about it. There are personalities out there that people believe the things they say simply because they have a name they've heard of or somebody they've – that thing drives me nuts because it allows people to get led around like sheeps. And all of it, even people who are technically proficient like somebody I respect like Lenart who I thought made a lot of great cognitive arguments for SystemD.

There were still people who would just pick up pitchforks because Lenart was for something or because – on either side. So that would be one thing I would change. The other thing I would like to change I think is how involved the community is with funding. They're very involved with code, documentation, and especially evangelism. I would really love to see more money where our mouths are in terms of funding open source projects, contributing to them, and allowing the public to fund things that deserve better focus, better surfacing. So that way, the projects and the outlets that are funded by maybe certain media backers or certain corporate sponsors that currently have a louder voice or currently have a larger presence could be more properly competed with by smaller independent news outlets and open source projects in a way that's on a more competitive advantage.

And it's up to the audience to kind of step up for that. And if I could change one damn thing, it would be to have more Linux users and more open source users contributing money financially back upstream to the projects and the things that they use. And maybe the content they consume. You kind of get a nice perspective for it all when you look at this website that I've sort of been obsessed

with that Wes linked to me. It's github.audio. And you're hearing it in the background right now. It's github.audio and you're hearing it in the background right now. It's a sonification of what goes on at GitHub. Yeah, and there's representations with different tones and blips on the radar. Well chosen. Artfully chosen. There's a big one.

That's a big one right there. Something just dropped. So you visualize commits to GitHub, right? That's what this is. And perspective with their size and whatnot. It reminds me of something I don't know if you ever saw it for Bitcoin. Did you ever see this for Bitcoin? Oh, yeah.

Visualize it or blockchain. And it's I left it up in a tab while I worked on the show today because it's just nice and peaceful. And it's like an organic kind of you know, sounds natural. Plus, there's something sort of inspiring to know that every one of those dings is a commitment of code. Look at the community go.

That's kind of inspiring. Right? When you're working and you keep hearing people that are committing something to projects all over the world. Open source projects. Yeah, you just run it in your tab. GitHub.audio. You might even be able to find some projects this way, right? You're like, oh, these guys are just doing a lot of cool stuff.

Maybe I'll check out that repo. Yeah, I agree. And also, like XMetal says in the chat room, I could totally fall asleep to that. You know what? I might try that tonight. I've been looking for things to leave on as background for my dogs. There goes a big one. Look at that.

Big one. Come on now. Even if you just have the sound muted, it's still kind of neat from a visual standpoint. For those of you in the audio audience, there are blips. So how would you describe that, Wes? Sort of like pings on a map that sort of expand in proportion and their color and their size. Like a 2D ripple. Yeah, a 2D ripple and it's proportionally to the size of the commit and all of that.

It's very fancy. So look at you. Look at you sending me a link that I love. I know you so well. GitHub.audio. I have bookmarks for some old Bitcoin ones, but they got bought out. Now they serve malware. So that's no good.

Hey, malware as a service is an important part of it. Malware as a service, yeah. You know what? Speaking of important services, I want to tell you about my mobile service provider, and that's Ting. Why don't you go to linux.ting.com, linux.ting.com to learn more, get a $25 discount off your first Ting device. Or if you're like ninja level and you bring a Ting device, then you'll get $25 in service credit and an average monthly Ting line is about $23. So your service credit is going to pay for more than your first month. It did for mine, too.

And that's kind of nice because Ting has CDMA and GSM networks. I'll say it again. Ting has CDMA and GSM networks. That's right, CDMA and GSM. So you get to pick which one works better for you and bring a device. They have radically good customer service, super good. You get to speak to a real human being. They can help you out, but they back it up with an incredible dashboard and an app for your mobile device.

You know, I laugh because Mr. Tunnell in the Mumbroom, producer Tunnell, he had a really funny comment today. He's like, hey, you ought to mention this in the Ting spot. People could go pick up the LG Tribute 5, which just landed on Ting, for $121, no contract, no termination fee, and then go over to Amazon and pick up a Rebel T5 digital SLR and still spend less money than you would spend for the new Pixel. See, I think he was just trying to make fun of me because I might buy a Pixel and I'm buying a new camera this week. Really?

Yep. It's going to be an expensive week, Chris. That is going to be a very expensive week. So yeah, the Tribute 2 was kind of a famous phone and the Tribute 5 is back and bigger with a bigger display, bigger battery, front facing cameras, all this business. It's, you know, it's actually a pretty decent phone for 121 bucks and you'd have enough money left over to get yourself an SLR. Kids phone, grandma's phone, you know, they's phone. They want Instagram and they want email.

Or if you just don't find yourself all that enthused about phones anymore. If smartphones are just not what floats your boat and you just need something that can do the basic things you want, run a recent version of Android and no contract nor determination fee. Just having a recent version of Android, that's pretty much everything you need. And $121, no contract nor determination fee. That's a, really, right there. Just having a recent version of Android, that's pretty much everything you need. And $121, no contract, no early termination fee. That's a really great deal. I want you to go over to linux.ting.com.

You get to put Linux in your URL bar, which is good because you want Linux in your history, let's be honest. You want that in there. You've got to stuff that URL history bar. I know what you've been up to. Linux.ting.com. They give you a discount off a device or they give you a discount off service if you decide to switch, and they've got a savings calculator. I recommend you check it out.

Linux.ting.com. And a big thanks to Ting for sponsoring the Unplugged program. So I thought before we got into talking about the Open Daylight Summit and our interviews, rolling our interviews that we had with some of the folks at Open Daylight Summit. We should give one more crack at explaining what the F software-defined networking is. JB does, SDN. Yeah, and why it matters. It is hard to describe because it is literally a nascent industry that is in flux and a lot

of people that are involved with it barely understand it. Yep. Well said, Chris. Well said. So it's really hard. They won't people that are involved with it barely understand it. Yep. Well said, Chris. Well said. So it's really hard. They won't say that, but it's true. Yeah. So for us coming here and then relaying the information to you, we kind of look like we're jackasses.

But software-defined networking itself, Open Daylight isn't the only software-defined networking controller game in town. It is one of the more open and community-based ones with multi-industry support. And it's one of the Linux Foundation has thrown their weight behind. And as we've shown, has an active community. So there's others though, like OpenFlow, right? Would that be considered? OpenFlow is the, that's what is controlled by OpenDaylight. Okay. So this is like the controller level stuff.

Yes. But there are several other like Big Switch has one. There's a few other proprietary implementations of OpenFlow controllers or things that interact with OpenFlow hardware. And so OpenFlow is able to be a controller that plugs in with OpenDaylight because it follows a series of standards set forth by OpenDaylight and software-defined networking. Like it follows these – it speaks these languages, correct? OpenFlow as a protocol then it separates the control plane from the data plane so that you can have this centralized,

standardized, OpenDaylight provides this as the OpenFlow controller which then sends configuration to all the OpenFlow devices that actually end up switching your packets and then that gets that programs the ASICs and other forwarding paths on the hardware to then implement your VPNs, implement your Layer 2 switches, implement your routers.

Yep, yep, yep. Your routes, your VLANs, all that stuff. So to try to better understand what the F all of this means, we decided we would take a very precious Tuesday, which is, you know, Wes has this time carved out from his day job. We have this time set aside with the mumble room to do this show. It's not just a thing we're flipping about. Like, we're going to go somewhere during Linux Unplugged.

It really kind of needs to be worth it. And so we decided to go down to Bellevue and check it out. And it was – the whole event itself was – it felt like it was really something set up for professionals that are in this industry that want to get information. Hey, this is what I'm working on. This is what we're working on. It was also people were giving talks that were sort of highlighting the fact that we were two separate open source projects kind of working on the same thing and now we've come together as one open source project. That was kind of neat to see. I think that was a pretty neat theme and it was interesting to see just how it kind of, you know, it took the Linux community kind of a while to get to this, like, different corporations working together setup.

And that's where Open Daylight is right now, where they're, you know, I think it's like different interest groups all seeing, like, we have this shared interest that we can all work on together. Now, just from, like, our experience standpoint, I have not stopped thinking about that burger I ate. I'm, like, still thinking about that burger I got. Oh, man, right? So I got – it was an homage to Dick's, which Dick's is a burger restaurant here in Seattle that is sort of famous. Yeah, I think so. And I think most people, when they come to Seattle, they like to go to Dick's and get themselves a ridiculous Dick's burger. They're super greasy burgers.

And so this place made an homage to Dick's, and I decided I got to give it a try. It was really, really good. But the bacon salt was impressive. But damn, if Wes's burger, and I have a picture of this in the show notes, if you're listening, you've got to see this thing. This thing is nearly as tall as, this thing stands taller than your cell phone. So imagine a burger that is literally taller than your cell phone. It's probably taller than a can of Coke, right?

It's taller than a can of Coke. It's taller than your cell phone. I think so. It is a – do you remember what was on this thing? Like there's egg and ham. There was ham, egg, a burger, hash browns. I think a hollandaise sauce was involved. Is that coleslaw?

What's over here on the side? You know, that's a good question. I'm not sure. Is it pulled pork? I can't tell because it's – and then there's a sauce. It's literally sitting in a pool of its own sauce. Yeah, sauce, egg. There's a big bowl of tater tots in the background there, slightly out of focus.

Yeah, yeah. It was really a wonderful meal. Perfectly out of focus, you might note. Oh, yes. You might note. Depth of field, lovely. Depth of field without two cameras. Somehow I managed to pull it off.

How did you do that? Yeah, so we had – I think it was need to go down there. It was need to talk to people. And we had a great chance to do some interviews. It was fun to kind of just be outsiders trying to understand this whole community. There was definitely moments where it's like, boy, some of this is going way over our head. And it was kind of hard to follow. But there were other moments where like these are just struggles that all open source projects have.

These are common problems with organizing people. How do you build this kind of community, this movement? So that kind of stuff was clear and was easy to sort of identify with and see. So I had a good time going down there. I really enjoyed the trip. I enjoyed the opportunity to learn more. And so I wanted to kind of relay to some of you our experience, and I tried to do that in the Linux Action Show last week. And then I wanted to follow up in this episode with a couple of more interviews to kind of help you better understand of how large enterprises are using this and how open source projects are using this.

So let's start on the business side of things. Let's start with the enterprise side of things because this is the most – this will be the most high-level interview that we have, the real big-picture perspective. And what's great about it is this is Balaji and he starts out by explaining what 5G is, what's 5G networking and why software-defined networking is important in a 5G network. So not only do you get to learn about 5G networking, but you get to learn how this all comes together to support 5G networks. So that'll be Balaji, and then we'll have one more after this,

and that'll be more of a—the next interview will be more of like a community, real-life testing project, stuff like that. All right, so here we go with the high level. Yes, thanks for asking. It's a great question. So 5G is, some people think 5G is, okay, we upgrade from 4G to 5G. But actually, it's partially true. But 5G encompasses much bigger than that.

5G includes our access as well as the transport and the data center, the cloud. So pulling all together, more of a holistic view. And then on top of that also in 5G, you know, the logical slicing of the network, it was already there in IP world, what we call virtual private network. In 5G, what we call network slicing, it's on a whole new level. So you slice the entire slice, network slice, on an existing network, logically separated, secured, isolated, to deliver, for example, to an automobile industry or to a health care industry. But it's all connected over the 5G network. Exactly. It's all part of the 5G network.

And also, we also on the top, how do you do the life cycle management of the whole network slice? So you have the management layer which is key, should be agile as well. That management layer consists of management and orchestration and analytics. So analytics will use it to close the loop. If there is a problem in the network, you can dynamically close the loop.

Now you may ask me, what's the role of SDN? Well, software defined network goes across the board. So you can have an SDN for transport. So basically the 5G requires to deliver services faster, time to market, and also from design of your service. If a customer asks, if a vertical industry like automobile industry come to an operator, hey, I need a service, network slicing, sorry, I need a service,

so we could actually create, design the service, create the service from the entire, you know, the process, business process, service fulfillment, all the way to delivering services. All these things should happen in a few days. I can't wait for a few months, right? That's what the agility we're looking at. So with like SDN, you kind of have the ability to reprogram on the fly. Yes. SDN is a cornerstone. It really is a catalyst, I call it,

a catalyst to enable that 5G transformation. And, you know, for network slicing, for example, SDN applies in many areas. For example, to set up end-to-end service, connectivity service, for in-transport network, you need to have an SDN-enabled transport network so I can dynamically set up the connectivity. Also, you need to, you know, in 5G slicing, you need to have this mobile core, which is virtualized. So you need to connect all the VNFs. The VNF could be virtual machines or it could be containers.

So you need to make intra-data center connectivity. SDN plays a role on that. So orchestration, what the orchestration will do is it will connect all the dots. Sure. And actually make it manageable. Exactly, manageable. The full lifecycle management. So since you did a great point talking about manageable,

because any service is cradle to grave, right, the service. So the dynamic nature of service is very critical. So, for example, if you create a mobile broadband service and the consumer are consuming that service and we are monitoring that, you apply the analytics, something happens to the mobile broadband slide. Remember, it's all virtual, right? So what we can do is using the orchestration and analytics and also leverage SDN. You can actually create another network slice, move your traffic, move the users. So you can – exactly.

This could be a stadium event. traffic, move the users. So you can, exactly. This could be a stadium event. Imagine if there's a stadium and they want a new, you know, the network and services, right? Events like this. You want to build the whole thing that'll cost time and money, right? This one is pretty easy. Maybe in 30 minutes you can create a mobile core using orchestration and this thing. So. Yeah, that is, what's really neat about that is what we're talking about here is you can see how vendors could slice out their whole network that would span across

multiple systems, multiple networks. And I think he kind of highlights how you can dynamically change it, right? So you don't have to go back and re-change your switches or update the configs or be like, oh no, now I need a router here and we need switches all this way and we need all these access points. You can fill places with generic hardware and then on the fly you can be like, oh, no, now I need a router here, and we need switches all this way, and we need all these access points. You can fill places with generic hardware, and then on the fly you can be like,

nope, I need two network partitions, a VPN connection from bridging these two networks, and it just all gets programmed out there. So right after that, I asked him, I said, be honest with me. How hard was it for Ericsson? They're a big telco vendor for sure. How hard was it for you to switch over to something like this?

Like was this one of those things where like your company fought this tooth and nail? And he says, no, it actually – it just makes a ton of sense for them. It turned out it was obvious for them because there is a – there's been enough left by open daylight and there's enough ambiguity around software-defined networking that there's a real need for people that understand huge networks and expertise to bring all this stuff together. And so for Ericsson, they don't feel like they're competitively disadvantaged working with the open daylight platform. They feel like, well, we've learned this thing and we know how to make all of them connect. I got a sense from them. They had a lot of people there. They were really invested in something like this.

It seemed very legitimate. They had a lot of people there. They were really invested in something like this. It seemed very legitimate. And I was surprised because it seemed like there's companies that would traditionally be competing with each other, like Ericsson and like Cisco and other Switch manufacturers. They traditionally are competing with each other. And here they all are. With vertically integrated platforms trying to lock, you know.

Yeah. Yes. With these massive vertical platforms that have these huge support contracts. And here they are all giving each other these back and forth tips on how to make everything work better with these different summits. It's just unbelievable. It's kind of a great compromise where it's like, yes, there's still money in you in providing solutions that can manage this stuff, and at the same time building communities to have a common foundation that anyone can use. Yeah, if this stuff gets your interest going or just building networks, building systems, solving problems, solutions, I encourage you to check out our sponsor, Linux Academy, linuxacademy.com slash unplugged.

They have labs and hands-on exercises that give you scenario-based labs with real experience. They have instructor mentoring from humans when you need it. It's not some sort of digital bot. It's not some sort of AI assistant. It's real human beings. Note cards that you can fork and make your own or look at community versions of them. Nuggets for when you don't have a lot of time. You can deep dive into a tiny bit of wisdom about a singular topic.

Video courses with self-paced in-depth video courses for every Linux cloud and DevOps topic. Of course, they've got courseware on OpenStack, which plays well with OpenDaylight and obviously Azure as well. Check them out at linuxacademy.com slash unplugged to support this show. Get yourself a great price and learn more. linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. And a big thank you to Linux Academy for sponsoring the Unplugged program.

This is a great time to tie that in because if any of this kind of stuff is over your head a little bit, there's great courseware on all of this stuff. So I want to talk about Heather and Chris's experience. They were great to talk to. Heather's from the Linux Foundation. Chris is from Ericsson of this stuff. So I want to talk about Heather and Chris's experience. They were great to talk to. Heather is from the Linux Foundation. Chris is from Ericsson and also works with the Open Daylight Project. And they talk about real world, how they use it, why the foundation

cares, and all of that kind of stuff. I'm here with Chris and Heather. And Chris is from Ericsson and Heather is from the Linux Foundation. And I'm hoping they're going to fill in Chris is from Ericsson, and Heather is from the Linux Foundation. And I'm hoping they're going to fill in a few dots for us from both cases. So, Heather, let's start with you. I'm really kind of looking forward to picking your brain because I know a lot of folks listening have heard of the Linux Foundation. They've heard of Open Daylight. Maybe they don't know how the two are connected and where you fit in.

So fill me in. Yeah, so the Linux Foundation has started doing what they call collaborative projects, where they are providing sort of the framework for other open source communities to sort of come together and form their project and be affiliated with the Linux Foundation, take advantage of the expertise that the LF has built up over the years around open source governance, that the LF has built up over the years around open source governance, communities, IPR, licensing, events, all that kind of stuff. And so the Open Daylight was one of their very early projects that they did in the networking space, and that has been an area that has been growing a lot for the LF in the past several years. So as sort of the networking industry is looking to both, I think, take advantage of advances in software, as well

as sort of open source as a sort of development strategy, a lot of projects have been talking to the LF. So it seems like the Linux Foundation really made this connection at the right time, because this is an area that's growing like crazy. So do you have a project that's connected with Open Daylight? Where's your role in that? Yeah, so I head up a project called OP-NFV, which is focused on network function virtualization, which you may have seen in sort of Nila's keynote this morning,

but it's a big use case for SDN, and it's the way the global operators are modernizing and transforming their networks to be more virtualized, more agile, and more software-based. And so we are a sister project to Open Daylight, work with them quite closely, as well as other LF and other open source organizations like OpenStack and things like that that aren't affiliated with the LF Foundation. Are you on top of OpenDaylight for your project? Is that my understanding?

So our project is actually very interesting. It's a systems integration project, really, so as an open source project. And Chris is our technical steering committee chair, so he can probably get into more details about that. But what we do is we actually compose sort of an end-to-end NFV platform based on components that sort of fill different parts of the stack. So that could be Open Daylight or other open source SDN controllers. It could be OpenStack. There's a new LF project called FD.io that we also sort of integrated in this time. We work with OVS, which is now newly a Linux Foundation CP.

And so we sort of do that work of building sort of a composed platform, doing system-level tests, and then taking feedback back to those upstream organizations to make all of their components more NFV-ready. Wow, that's super important. So, Chris, how does this sort of translate to real-world things that matter to Ericsson? So the NFV journey affects everyone, from the vendors to the operators. It's obviously an operator journey that the vendors need to be participating in. When it comes to the NFV platform and how it's built, for us being able to work collaboratively

on, for instance, bringing Open Daylight into an OpenStack enabled end-to-end solution, providing a framework for applications to run on, for network orchestration, to overlay. It's extremely important for us to be part of that, to help facilitate how that's going to work, how it best serves the operator's needs. And, of course, as a vendor, it provides us with that foundation

on which we can provide our product. So Ericsson has a booth here, right? Yes, we do. And there's several staff members here. It seems to be something that's getting an area of a lot of focus. What's Ericsson's history with Open Daylight? So we are a founding member. I have been serving on the technical steering committee myself of Open Daylight for the

period that it's existed. So that's, wow, yeah. existed. So that's, wow. And he has been serving as our TSC chair at OPNFE since it has existed. So from an Ericsson perspective, we see Open Daylight as

extremely important. When it comes to transforming the network, when it comes to enabling new use cases and new capabilities in a carrier environment, it is our platform of choice. It's what we believe is the best long-term and short-term bet to really bring that out and leverage a cohesive and diverse ecosystem. It fits into OPNFV projects.

It fits into the whole ecosystem and provides not just a vertical piece. A lot of components and a lot of CPs will solve a specific problem and do it very well. Open Daylight's a platform that provides you with the freedom to iterate and to sort of throw something on the side that can then interwork with what's sort of there. It provides a place to innovate within the context of a broader network. So for us, it's extremely important that Open Daylight is healthy,

that it feeds the whole ecosystem, and that it enables us, our competitors, and our customers to really just innovate and create that new network. So what drew you to get involved personally with the project so long ago? So I was actually doing network management back in the day when Open Daylight started. And what we were finding in network management is that we were trying to propose new capabilities that we saw were really needed. And something like Open Daylight comes along and it's like, we're going to build these capabilities.

And it's like, aha, okay, this is where we need to be. And it was really clear. And Open Daylight brings the ability to modernize existing networks and adopt new technologies at the same time so it's not just that here's a new technology or here's an old NMS or something. It finds that difficult place in between that allows you to move forward.

So what's next in your eye for OpenDaylight? More of the same. Well, no, no, more. More. More is more more is more in this case more momentum all that stuff so Open Daylight grows release over release over release

every release I've been participating in things are more stable the community is bigger there's more commercial engagement so from that perspective this is what I think is next for Open Daylight as well what we see coming in the industry that can take advantage of that momentum is

the ability for OpenDaylight to work very smoothly with OpenStack to extend OpenStack capabilities, bring in carrier and access technologies into that environment and also work with how containers are going to integrate into that environment as well.

Can you elaborate on that a bit? No. I wouldn't want to be here. Just talk or I don't know. Nobody uses that. Here's a plug. So in the Colorado release, which we released yesterday. Yesterday.

It's still yesterday. Our third release, exactly. On schedule. No, I missed it. On schedule to the day that we had agreed to, like eight months ago or seven months ago. Seven months ago. So in that release, the Colorado release of OpenNFV,

we have an NFV environment which contains LXD containers and VMs, and you can plug OpenDaylight into that, and you can use OpenDaylight in order to be able to network between the containers and the VMs. So you can then orchestrate your whole network? Exactly. End-to-end, front-to-back, and that's why we're in OpenNFV, because we're able to bring these technologies on board, new concepts, provide a platform upon which Open Daylight and others can integrate, build out and test new capabilities and prove them.

So not just write a bit of code and put it through their compiler and have a thing at the end, but actually prove and test end-to-end use cases. That's the real value. It seems like you're modeling that way, like kind of how it's necessarily going to end up being deployed in the real world. That's what we're trying to do, exactly. In OpenIV we have things like the Pharos test.

I'm going to let Heather talk. I talk too much. But Pharos, tell us about Pharos. So Pharos is our federated community test lab project where both end users and vendors are bringing test labs in different environments, so hardware from different vendors

and hardware across different architectures and it's tied into our CICD pipeline so that we actually are deploying sort of various flavors of an NFV platform into multiple environments on multiple hardware, and we do that many, many, many times heading into a release. So not only do we feel fairly comfortable, we've gotten, say, OpenStack and ODL working with each other. We know that OpenStack and ODL are working with each other on, you know, sort of the OEMs that folks like Ericsson or Huawei or Cisco are using or Intel Whitebox, or this time we added in ARM architectures or Dell or HPE.

So, you know, we're really sort of, yeah, and it's, you know, and tied in and automated. So we actually are sort of both scaling our ability to do testing, but then also sort of doing a lot of the vendor interoperability testing sort of just as part of our development process. Wow. So if I'm listening and I want to learn more about OPNFE, where would I go? wiki.opnfv.org. Easy peasy. So they were both great to talk to, and we chatted some more.

We wrapped up. There will be some other stuff you might hear from in the future. But a little bit after that, you had a chance to go to another session. Yes, I did. And which was that? I went to a talk about bringing some Scala into the Open Daylight code base. Right now, it's mostly a Java code base. And then I guess it's mostly configured in XML, which are not everyone's favorite things.

I'm sure Linus would not love that. Not everyone's favorite, but they're obviously very much used in enterprise environments. And the talk was kind of interesting. There's not a large deployment of Scala right now, but I know some companies involved in Open Daylight are kind of playing with it. It brings a more elegant approach. It's kind of a merged language that has both object-oriented and functional design patterns included in it. So it can be scaled a little bit nicer. They showed some really interesting examples showing like, here's all this Java boilerplate. The Scala language also includes a lot of type inference, that sort of thing.

So you can save on boilerplate code. As well as at least for the current version of Scala, the XML parsing, XML is pretty much integrated into the language. So it kind of makes it very elegant to work with the configurations when it's already valid Scala code. Yeah, not to mention if you've already got a lot of time spent with Scala, it's really nice that then you can move that time, that investment, and that knowledge over.

And then at the same time, the Scala codebase can very, or at least somewhat easily reference Java codebases, Java libraries. Oh, yeah, okay. Saves a lot of time. Yeah. Now, that is our experience. That's our Open Daylight Summit experience. We might have some future clips coming up that aren't exactly Open Daylight Summit related.

They were recorded there, including creating a new distribution around this and also managing community and infrastructure around this. But those felt more like those could be applicable to a lot of different open source projects. So I think we'll probably play those in future episodes of the Unplugged show. Now, Wes, flash check there. Mr. Wimby, are you still on the line over there? Over. I see that name that I love. Yeah. Wimpy, hello, Wimpy. This is even cooler. Yeah. Wimpy, what are you learning now about Open Media Vault and sort of your reactions and follow-up to the review we did recently on the Linux Action Show? I know starting with perhaps your thoughts on how to actually get UPS monitoring working,

which was a complaint I had in my review of OpenMediaVault. Okay, so I have decommissioned my OpenMediaVault 2 servers and now have OpenMediaVault 3 servers in place. Oh, nice. Not even stable yet and you're all in. Yeah, yeah. And I did that with two as well actually i was running two two whilst it was in beta for some time and that's really because i've i faith in the project and the plugins that i need are available so i'm making the switch um yeah i've got um uh a simple ups uh it's connected connected via USB and the plug-in in

Open Media Vault is the NUT plug-in, which is the network UPS tool. I did see that, but that seemed like that was only applicable to UPSs connected by IP that manage multiple machines. Yeah, it's

I think a misnomer from the heritage of the project it's been called nut forever but in actual fact it can monitor um ups's that are plugged in over rs232 and gps oh that's great okay i have one of those so um yeah if you've if you've got a ups that is compatible with nut it will work with open media vault and uh yeah the configuration changes that you might stick in etsy default um there's a little um text dialogue within open media vault to send your ups any additional config should it need it for listening to the um so there's some specifics allowed there that's nice yeah and then and then you can hook that up so um the network piece is that you can have one box monitor the UPS,

and then you can have other boxes monitor that machine or that machine tell the other boxes. So in my case, when that main server detects the UPS has gone active, it then tells everything else to shut down. Yep. Right. So if I had multiple servers, I could use that. That is nice. nice yeah that is really okay that's worth spending some time setting up then yep and then um generally speaking uh i've

got the plex plugin up and running um that's doing all of that um i use nfs because i've got all of my local stuff sitting there running um i access that way i've got one samba share for when family visit and they might want to deposit some photos somewhere so i just have a general purpose samba share up and running for them to actually read data into yep and then without using open media vault itself i a Dropbox, headless Dropbox running. And I do that so that I have an always LAN sync copy of my Dropbox on the network. I've done that too. But then what I also do is I do an R Snapshot backup of that Dropbox.

up of that Dropbox. So if Dropbox ever go away, for whatever reason, I actually have a full offline copy of my Dropbox. Clever. I should relook at how I do that. I kind of do something similar, but I'm not using rsnapshot, and that would be a good tool for that. Yeah. And then I also have aptcacherng, which, again, is just installed because it's Debian at the back end. It's not through Open Media Vault itself, because it's debian at the back end it's not through open media vault itself and that's so all of the machines i have on my network here when they do their apt updates they go through this caching proxy rather than all sucking stuff down over the now network each time now how uh boy that is shoot that is something we should let's talk about that more next week let's talk about how you do that next week because I think that is – that's like digital ocean level local speeds there.

I got to talk about that. Yeah, and when you're connected to the internet with a radio connection, you want that kind of stuff. Suddenly these optimizations become important. You know, I wasn't sure if the review was fair or not. I had a really hard time afterwards. I wasn't sure if the review was fair or not. I had a really hard time afterwards. Like, I wasn't clear because I think it's a really good project,

and I think it is much more competitive than people give it credit for or really, like, the name recognition. It doesn't get the name recognition it deserves. Yeah, it's bulletproof. I mean, your criticism was you had a specific use case, which was connecting a server to another server over NFS. Or potentially a couple of backend. Yeah. And I'd suggest that maybe iSCSI is the better tool.

I think you're right. If iSCSI is supported by these storage appliances, that would probably be a better tool and that would work. And it would show up in all of the applications as volume. Yeah. That would be nice. I think what I walked away with was a sort of relief. I know that sounds weird, but I have been feeling anxious that Linux didn't have a

FreeNAS competitor. Yeah. Well said. We don't have a great solid PFSense, at least in my estimation so far. Yeah. We don't have a great solid PF Sense, at least in my estimation so far. We don't have a great solid PF Sense competitor. And I thought the same was true with FreeNAS. And then I looked at OpenMediaVault and I realized it's a pretty damn good product. In some ways, it's like the way it is right now kind of echoes how it is the Linux version of the way FreeNAS is more compared to FreeBSD.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those things I like. I like those things about it. I like that it's based on Debian. I like Grayhole. I like the idea of managing my storage with Grayhole.

That's really – that solved a problem for me that I had that I couldn't quite figure out how I was going to solve. And so it's a pretty competitive product, you know, and it has a great heritage. And it's based on a solid Debian base. And I wasn't sure how the review came off. But then we got the emails. The emails started coming in. And I got a few emails where people said, hey, after your review, I decided to give it a try. I'm switching over.

I decided to give it a shot. And that feels good because I didn't want to discourage people from trying it. Because I'm actually going to put it in deployment at Angela's house. And if you think about it, that's sort of the most trusting scenario because I... You do not want to have to go deal with that.

Exactly. I want to set it up. I want to give her a UI for it to work. And I want it to be bulletproof. And I want to learn from that over time. And, you know, I'm going to manage it, but I want it to be really self-reliant. Yeah, exactly. And so that's where we're going to go next. I was surprised to see that one of my coworkers had like an open media vault with ZFS set up.

I was like, oh, yeah? And, you know, I mean, he's fairly technical, but doesn't have a huge Linux history. So I was like, well, that obviously works pretty well for you if you can get that going. He's had it for a number of years. Well, if you don't know what we're talking about, because who was... Mosin-Rath. Mosin-Rath, if you don't know what we're talking about, Open Media Vault. Go check out the recent episodes

of the Linux Action Show. If you go to jupiterbroadcasting.com and you go to the Linux Action Show page, we did an Open Media Vault just like two weeks ago, episode 436 of the Linux Action Show. We did Open Media Revolt versus FreeNAS because boom, boom, boom. Versus sells those clicks, man. It does.

And both Noah and I have a lot of experience with FreeNAS. So it just made sense that we would be comparing it constantly to FreeNAS. It's what the market, you know. And it's what people are curious about. So that was episode 436 of the Linux Action Show, which is ridiculous that that number starts with a 4. That's crazy. Linux Action Show is ridiculous. And also, if you want more Open Daylight Summit or software-defined networking or just want to get a better feel for what it's like to go to a summit like that if you've never been, definitely check out the most recent episode, 437 of the Linux Action Show, or go to our

YouTube channel, youtube.com slash jupiterbroadcasting. There's a mini rover log posted of our trip to the Open Daylight Summit. Yeah, it was fun. And we did a little video at that place that had the best burgers ever. Okay. Now, you can stop me at any point if a lie is coming out of my mouth. Okay. I will.

I absolutely will. At the lunchbox while we were sitting there, an intelligent, well-spoken, attractive, well-dressed young lady came up and started a conversation with us. And why did she do that, Wes? That would be my Linux Action Show t-shirt. Is it? It was legitimately IA. For the first time ever. I couldn't believe it.

That was great. And we didn't have it on camera. But we actually got approached because we were wearing a Linux shirt by a girl. And she was there, a lady, a woman. I believe with Intel. Yeah, I think she was there as, you know, she was there. But she was just, she loved Linux and she wanted to, she came up and was like, hey, I saw you had a Linux shirt on.

I just want to talk. Where can I find out more information? So if she happens to be watching this episode of Linux Action Show, I don't remember your name. So be sure to tweet me, at ChrisLAS. Yeah, please. We'd love to have you as part of the community, part of the Mumble Room. You should join our Mumble Room. We're over at jblive.tv.

And here's the nice thing. The Mumble Room is open to anybody. So you could join us. And I have been hoping to get a female voice on this show for a long time. We get them from time to time when we invite them directly. But I know our community has. Yeah, it would be wonderful to have more. I have a feeling that you just, you know, don't worry. Don't worry. It is a totally low pressure environment. You come hang out with us. We just check your microphone. Go to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. We make sure your microphone works

and you can join us in our mumble room and take part of our virtual lug. You can get all converted to the calendar page. You can also leave us your feedback at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar or linuxactionshow.reddit.com. Check out this Sunday's Linux Action Show. Do it. We're going to have our review of Plasma 5.8, the long-term support edition. We'll tell you how that goes. Hmm.

I'm excited already. the long-term support edition. We'll tell you how that goes. Hmm. I'm excited already. Also, I'm sure in future episodes of the Unplugged program, we'll have a little more interviews from the floor of Open Daylight Summit.

So look forward to that too. More community stuff, technical stuff. Good stuff. Thanks for being here. And we'll see you right back here next Tuesday. Thank you. All right, guys, head over to jbtitles.com right now and get your submissions in and vote, vote, vote. You heard it right.

That's banksuggest.com. That is just how I say it. That was good. Jbtitles.com. Go there now. For a second, I thought it was Chris. Hey, is that Chris? That's not Chris.

For a second there, they thought it was. I mean, you already fooled them with that plasma video that only kind of sounded like you. Who knows? We keep you guessing on this week's episode of Linux Unplugged. So, Mr. Wimpy, are you employed, unemployed, employed again? What's your status right now? I am employed. I'm in my second week in the new job.

And how is it going? Yeah, going very well, thank you. Congratulations, glad to hear that. And already hard at work? Yes, yes. So I've been getting to know the team and I've been assigned some stuff to get on with. And 1610 is around the corner, so everyone's working on fixing the last bits and bobs for that. That sounds delightful.

And do you get to share what bits and bobs you get to work on? Well, I'm on the desktop team, so I'm working on desktop stuff. Well, I'm on the desktop team, so I'm working on desktop stuff. So at the moment for 16.10, I'm mostly working on some fixes for Unity 7. But then in a couple of weeks, all of the Ubuntu engineering staff are getting together for a sprint to plan out the next six months and snaps snappy and unity eight feature in in all of that work i just saw a news item go by that uh the software center got support for screenshots of snap packages so snap packages can have screenshots in the software center which is really nice nice. Yeah, they're just nice. Yeah. And yeah, there's, yeah, so the Sprint that's coming up is an internal company one, but I was looking through, there are some guests and some of the same community contributors

that were at the Snappy Sprint are being invited back again. So that's good to see. And are you able to work from home, Wimpy? Are you going into an office? I work from home all the time so one of the things i've been busy with is actually building my home office oh i would love to hear about that yeah so that's finished now that's been that's what do you mean when you say build like what's the extent of that like did you build a new room or did you like redo a room or did you set up a

desk like what's that when you say build an office i redid a room so i used to have an office in the house years ago and then after my daughter was born that room sort of became the room of crap and boxes and everything that sort of you know how that gets displaced when children enter a house and there are things that come in so many boxes really oh my goodness so it was just like six years worth of clutter and mess um so yeah it took about five weekends to clear it all up redecorate you know so i've got three desks in here and two racks and several servers oh that's great lots of laptops and computers all set up, all easy access. So I've got lots of space to do my work. Were you able to make any accommodations for that podcasting thing that you find yourself doing so much now?

Yep, yeah. So the desk I'm sat at here has got a Rode arm on it with the mic on it, so that can swivel away out of the way when I'm not using it, and the mixer's on the desk here. So, yeah, it's all nicely arranged it's very comfortable it's nice when you get a chance to redo all that when you've sort of things have transitioned and you do new things and you kind of have new things that you need to accommodate it's kind of it's a great time to be able to redo the whole model yeah

yeah it really is and you know I was reading about working from home and one of the bits of advice was make sure your work environment is um is comfortable and a nice place to be so i've worked hard on that my wife's helped as well so my wife has made this contraption where i've actually got a pull down green screen from the ceiling as well now now look at this now now what's the uh what's the green screen for yeah well occasionally i do um video stuff and green screen screens handy for that yeah i've noticed um also um my wife is a little bit privacy conscious so uh putting the green screen up means you can't see anything on her side of the oh that's nice so yeah yeah so she's got put this

green screen so i can pull the green screen down from the ceiling and uh tuck it away again when i don't need it so that's that's a nice that's i was i was thinking about doing something kind of like that in a spot that a workspace that i'm thinking about using so uh so was that actually like a kit you bought or how did you get a how did you get a tuck away green screen yeah my wife made it so she bought the fabric a while ago and then she's bought all sorts of bits and pieces and actually constructed it herself so i went away so one of the things i was doing a couple of weeks ago is i went to give some presentations to some charities in this country about linux and open source and the role it might play in their organizations and whilst i was away doing that for a few days i came

back and found this green screen hanging from the ceiling when i came back so yeah that was her little job whilst i was away which is pretty cool i didn't know she was going to do it as you got the new computers you got a new workspace that's a good setup yeah yeah i'm all uh now you have no excuses yeah yeah yeah yeah well that sounds really cool i would love to uh do they take do they have guests over there of course you don't have you ever have you gone to their uh officials like so how did that work like when your first couple of days and orientation did you travel you traveled to an office you spent time there and then once your actual day-to-day work started you went back to your home and started working no no it was all done remote so i have been to the i had

yeah yeah it was yeah so i have been to the office once before but that was um you know as a community contributor right you might remember i took part in the um uh user testing studies for unity eight a while back so that's the only time i've been to the to the main office um but no they uh the various departments liaise with you remotely and um leading up to it you you do things like sorting out your payroll and all of that with the hr departments right and then on day one you get um all of your accounts allocated and you through launchpad um you log in and then you're able to access an area where you can access all of your credentials and then the first day is basically setting up all of your sure you know access to everything yeah and uh and then as you access

things you then find out this like it's a bit like a um uh an adventure game You know, as you set up an account and access something, you then find, oh, there's all of these extra things you need to do. So the first few days is sort of, you know, chasing around and getting yourself set up on all the systems and learning where everything is. But yeah, that all happens remotely. That's like, wow, impressive. Yeah, it is actually. It's fairly impressive.

I guess that is probably, they've probably worked in a mode where so many of their workers are remote for so long. That's exactly what you do. You know, it's kind of funny because that's kind of becoming more and more common because even kind of common for us, we work with probably more people remotely than we do. So, yeah, I guess it's just kind of becoming the way more modern business is happening. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I guess it's just kind of becoming the way more modern business is happening. You should get like a 4K video wall and it's like everyone's in the same room. Just settle for mumble.

I'll settle for mumble. Yeah, I have put a TV up on one of the back walls in the office with a roku attached to it to uh have bits and bobs playing in the background whilst i'm working you know stay up to speed on the news and things and listen to podcasts yeah i uh i i have gotten a lot of distance out of a roku and now the android tv to the point where uh it sort of changed the way I do my own content because it is – the YouTube algorithm is – once you start feeding it properly, is actually pretty good in a weird like – it manages every day now to expose something that I find interesting to watch on YouTube and now it's all just sort of integrated into my television.

So I listen to a lot more YouTube shows than I used to. And then I have ways from Pocket Cast directly on my TV to Chromecasting it or whatever, you know, whatever method you want to get the audio to move around. So I can listen to podcasts on my TV too and then continue to play them on my phone later. It is getting to the point now where when I first started doing podcasts, the only people that were listening were people that were downloading the files and then syncing them to a device of some type that was capable of doing playback of some kind. Yeah. And maybe through like a tape adapter in the car or something. Like it's legitimately – like it was – there wasn't really – there wasn't Bluetooth in the cars.

There weren't smartphone apps. There weren't internet-connected TV set-top boxes. And it was – and now like you can get the JB Roku app or the JB Cody add-on, which Rob Loach is working on right now. You can get – and then you can just – like you can just watch all our stuff. Like it's just – it's on the – here's an icon for Jupiter Broadcasting. Here's an icon for CBS News. It's like we're all like on the same playing field. You just have to know about us.

We're not on the same – like Discovery is still a challenge. But the availability from where it was eight, nine, ten years ago, oh, my God. Yeah. So I love the Roku. I love the Android TV. Not huge on the Fire, but – Yeah. love the roku i love the android tv not huge on the fire but yeah yeah i've kicked my um amazon fire tv into touch um now it lasted about a year before the roku the the new roku just yeah surpassed

it in terms of media playback yeah the the gaming aspect of the fire tv was fun, but it wasn't enough to keep it in the room. That is a surprising – that is when I'm coming – so I have the Shield TV at the RV, and the kids are driving more gaming. Oh, really? And it wasn't really something – so when you buy an Android Shield TV thing, whatever it's called, a NVIDIA Android Shield TV, whatever, it comes – if you get the cheap one, the one that I actually – I paid full price for, it comes with a game controller and not a remote. And I thought – and it's a decent like Xbox 360 knockoff game controller. I thought that's weird. And then if you get like the pro version, it comes with a remote and a controller. And so they really put an emphasis on the controller.

And I now have started to realize that what NVIDIA is doing is they're combining, like, a curation of really good Android games, like the really good ones, the ones that, like, don't – I don't even – I don't even really – I didn't know some of these games were even available for Android. Plus they're combining it with, like, some sort of remote GPU streaming service that they offer that was, like, on live. See, that's really nice. I haven't know some of these games were even available for Android. Plus they're combining it with some sort of remote GPU streaming service that they offer that was on live. See, that's really nice. I haven't tried that yet. So you can get all kinds of regular desktop games for a $7 a month subscription. And the kids... That sounds great. For them, it's fantastic.

Reasonable price. There's probably a lot of games for them to try. And so right now on the Shield TV, we have a Mickey Mouse game and a DuckTales game and Raymond Runs games. You know, just really basic games. But for young kids that now get to play, their experience of gaming so far has been on an iPad or an Android tablet. Like it's very like – it's a very vertical, you know, personal gaming experience. It's not a collaborative gaming experience. It's not a whole – the whole family sitting on the couch all –

On the TV, right. Yeah, all trying to figure it out. And that's what's been really interesting is now all of a sudden we've just sort of stumbled into this because the Shield TV has all this gaming capability. And we started, you know, a while ago on the Roku with some of the simple games like Angry Birds and stuff like that, and that's kind of where I had a sense that they would be into it. But I don't have the funds to buy a gaming console. But the Shield TV has some legitimate graphics.

Multi-purpose. Trying to, which I realize is not the newest game, but oh my God, just trying to look at 1080p on your television. I've had older laptops that struggle with that. We just sit there with our mouths gaping. It's so gorgeous. It's just really, really, really beautiful. And it's 60 frames a second, smooth, really nice.

And that has been a surprise because now it's dad. Can we – dad, can we – not what do we want to watch but what can we play? And what's been interesting is how adorable they all are working together trying to solve the problem. That's actually really cute. Yeah, it is. That's the nice thing about having it on a TV that a console kind of brings into a family that

having a computer or a tablet doesn't really. And just sort of fumbled into it a little bit.