LINUX Unplugged - Episode 205: A Fitting Fedora | LUP 205

Episode Date: July 12, 2017

Fedora 26 is here & so is Matthew Miller, the project leader, to chat all about the new release, big future projects, important changes to Rawhide & how they’re taking advantage of openSUSE’s openQA.Plus our hands on experience with the new release, the ultimate upgrade test results & community news.

Wes, you're not still using that filthy top, are you? Oh, gosh, no. Basic top? H-top, come on, at least. Maybe back in the 80s. Well, Wes, I want to introduce you to V-top. V-top? Yeah, it's got all the top.

It looks so good. Now, it's a little heavy, but it's probably in your local package manager or you can install with NPM. It's a graphical activity monitor for the command line. It's pretty slick, dude. If you have NPM, you can just do npm install dash gvtop, but I installed it right here on my machine. Hey, yeah, you did. I don't got a lot going on right now, but you can go through the different processes. You can look at your memory

usage. You get a real-time graphical representation of your CPU. It's pretty cool. Not bad. Yeah. Look at this. Things are, geez, Chrome, man. Chrome's got 34 threads going right now. It's using 33.9% of my system's RAM. You know all a computer is is a web browser these days. This is Linux Unplugged, episode 203, for July 11th, 2017. Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's installing and upgrading distributions like some kind of maniac. My name is Chris. My name is Wes. Hello, Wes.

Hello, sir. Very excited about today's show. Any day that we get to cover a new big distribution release is a good day. Fedora 26 is here! It was released this morning and we've been installing it on systems all day long. Not even our own systems. Whoops. I know. Wait. Whoops. Uh-oh. And Matt from the Fedora

project will join us to cover the new release and explain why we maybe accidentally installed it on his laptop. Sorry about that. Our laptop. Sorry about that. Our bad. Sorry about that. Also, we've got a bunch of great community news. Everything from some Ubuntu shenanigans to new software projects that we think are super cool.

And updates coming for you Steam users that are, I don't know, you might say many, many years overdue. Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous. We'll talk about that. Then we're also going to get geeky with NF tables. Sorry, not to confuse you with NFS. I'm talking about NF tables, the replacement for IP tables. It's been billed as a performant alternative, the next generation IP tables. But has that really been tested?

It looks like a Red Hat engineer took it to the benchmark. It looks like a Red Hat engineer took it to the benchmark. And we're going to talk about some testing that he did to really throw both NF tables and IP tables through the wrenches and see how the performance were different, see where one may perform better. It's actually very fascinating. There's a lot of details in there. Yeah. You found a good one this week, Wes. So we'll talk about that, too. But we sort of have to get to something right off the top here.

We've got to bring in the mumble room. Time-appropriate greetings, mumble room. Greetings. Greetings to you. Greetings. Hello, hello, hello, and a special hello to Matt from Fedora. Hey, Matt. Hi there.

Glad to be here. Sir, it is always good to welcome you back to the show. I always love talking to you. So Matthew Miller is the Fedora project leader. He's been on the show for the last couple of releases of Fedora just about here or there. And today is Fedora 26's release day with lots of things that are obviously coming into Fedora 26 from upstream. New development tools like GCC 7, Golang 1.8, Python 3.6. New partitioning tool in Anaconda, the installer.

Also, there is the new LX cute version of the spin. It's got kernel 4.11.8, shipped with GNOME 3.24, and all of its new fancy features, LibreOffice 5.3, Fedora Media Writer has gained ARM support. So if you want to write the Raspberry Pi versions. Builder now supports things like Flatpak and Rust. And the cute Adwadia theme has gotten lots of improvements to make it match the GTK version, including support for dark mode. I mean, this is sounding like a great release, Matt. Have I missed anything that's your favorite new feature?

So one thing I think is pretty neat is we have a new Python classroom spin. So one of the things we do, it's actually a lab. We've divided things up into spins and labs now. The spins are desktop environments, and the labs are kind of use-focused things. So the Python lab, it's basically a classroom environment in a Vagrant box or a Docker container or a Life USB stick that is basically pre-set up to get your classroom ready to go to teach Python or a bunch of like scientific computing things based around Python. Oh, wow. That's really, I could definitely see that in a classroom somewhere. Yeah. And I really like this because as a project, we've been

looking a little bit at our mission and what we want to do, what makes Fedora unique and special. And we came up with a new mission statement, which I cannot say off the top of my head, although it is – yeah. But the basic idea is we build a platform that enables our contributors and other softwares to make solutions for users. And so this is a great example of here's some things that some contributors did. This wasn't a top-down, like, let's make a Python thing, but some people who are involved in Fedora wanted to do this, and we provide the tooling and stuff to make a kit like that.

And I'd like to see a lot more of those kind of things for special use cases. Hmm. So there's a few things that have sort of been on the ancillary edges of this release that have also gotten my attention. And so what I thought we would do is maybe talk about a couple of things that the Fedora project is working on. And then sort of the second half of this would be our take on the release, because both Wes and I have had a chance to kick the tires. And I've had this long-running DigitalOcean droplet instance since either Fedora 24 or 23.

Oh, yeah, right. That I've been upgrading every single release. And I run a couple of Docker containers on here. And I manage it with Cockpit. And it's sort of been my, how long can you run a Fedora server and not have it break? And so I completed that upgrade before the show and did my testing on it. So I'll give you my report on that as well. But not to take away attention from the release of Fedora 26, but I always love to do this to you.

I noticed something about future releases that really got my attention. And I don't really even know how to put this right, but it looks like Rawhide is seeing a shift as of about right now, where essentially it sounds like Rawhide will be more like a rolling release that you intend people to use as a daily driver. I quote directly from the wiki, it will be generally useful to people to use as a daily driver and a development platform and means we no longer need to go through the process of building, testing, and shipping alpha releases. And the entry on the wiki is no more alpha for the Fedora project. What's going on here, Matt? Yeah, that's the plan. I mean, this is part of an overall push we have for more automated testing. This is more validation testing rather than continuous integration testing, which happens kind of more at the developer side. testing rather than continuous integration testing, which happens kind of more at the developer side. But basically, Adam Williamson, who's one of our top QA people, has been working with the SUSE thing, the OpenQA tool, to set up a lot of automated tests. But basically, all of the basic tests that we've previously always done by hand to make sure the alpha is

ready, those are basically imported as automated tests already. So basically there's the changes to make those gating. And so that automatic rawhide basically happens. Something like an alpha happens every night, assuming all the tests pass. And so essentially the rawhide system is running through OpenSUSE QA? Yeah, through the OpenQA thing that OpenSUSE made, yeah. Yeah, and so, yeah, there's kind of two advantages. The one advantage is that we can get more people using it.

I think it might be a little bit ambitious to say this is like our rolling release because it's still going to change a lot. And I think that if you want to use this, you've got to be willing to be like, well, my system broke this afternoon. I wonder what wasn't getting tested that should have been getting tested. Very good to know. Yeah. Definitely. But, you know, if you enjoy that kind of thing, I think it will be good.

And we do have a number of people who are running Rawhide already, as it is right now. And generally, that kind of thing happens maybe once a season or so. So it's not that bad of a risk. But if we can reduce that so you can maybe roll back or have something a little bit better. So that's one benefit. And the other benefit is basically that every time we put out a release, that is a lot of work. And that's one of the reasons distributions like rolling releases because it's like, what else could we do if we skipped all that trouble we were doing making releases and just did stuff? So removing alphas is a way of removing some amount of work.

And with the automated testing, we're feeling pretty confident that we can do that without negative impact on the project. Right, and it would seem to me that if Rawhide is getting continuously ran through automated QA, that it would probably raise the average quality of it, which would probably make average release quality better. Exactly, exactly. And yeah, one of the problems we ran into in this last release is that some of the things came down to tests that hadn't been done for a while. And they were just done on the last day before the release. And then we're like, oh, look, virtualization on AMD is broken. So then we had to trace down that bug all at the last minute.

And so if we have automated tests running on those things all the time, we can catch them long before they become a crisis. Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. I guess so... Hi there. So my little play back there, little echo back, but now it's gone. My kind of follow-up question to that would be, could you share any of the background

on how the Fedora project began working with the OpenQA project from OpenSUSE? I'm just curious on, like, was there, like, was it, like, at an event, and you guys shook hands and were like, hey, let me show you what we're doing, and then you guys went, hmm, we could really use that. Or how did that process initiate? I have, you know, I'm not quite sure for this one,

but a lot of stuff happens at conferences like FOSDEM and things where people get together in the district dev room and people show off their stuff. I think that actually may be the genesis of this particular thing, but I'm not quite sure. It might just be us looking around. A lot of people in the project like to look and see

what cool things other distros are doing. It's all open source, so we take advantage of it where we can. I think it's actually pretty cool. It shows an open-mindedness. Definitely. We've talked a lot about OpenQA here on this show, but haven't necessarily seen the kind of adoption that we thought might make sense. So this really bolsters, I think, both projects. So Rawhide is going in an interesting direction. If things continue, is there a trend line here? Or is this just sort of the next evolution and what's going to stay

here for a bit? And the question really what I'm asking is, are we trending towards a Fedora rolling? Or is this not really likely the end goal of what rawhides to become? Yeah, so I think I said this on here before, I've got strong opinions about rolling releases. And that is, there's there's sort of two people that rolling releases benefit. And one is enthusiasts, people who want the latest of everything, and just don't mind waking up to a surprise and now all of the buttons on my screen have moved around and, hey, it's innovation. That's one demographic and that's probably a lot of your listeners, right? I don't know.

I don't know. I can also sympathize with that to some degree. It can be kind of fun. I'm getting some new stuff for its own sake. And the other one is basically the distro themselves it's just because it's a lot less work but from a user point of view i think having real releases is actually a lot better because in any distribution there's just a whole bunch of change and you can test to make sure things aren't you know awful and don't crash but you can't test for that thing easily for like, you know, the UI

changed in this, or now that program's gone. And so with a roll and release... You need something to target. Right, and with a roll and release, you get that basically whenever the distro developers put it in there and then you get it, or else, and if you decide to not, you then don't

get security updates, because that's the idea basically. You take it or you don't get security updates because that's the idea, basically. You take it or you don't. Yeah, makes sense. So I think releases are better because it lets you have a window when you can decide, okay, this Thursday I'm going to maybe have to relearn how my menus work because I'm going to the new version. So I think there's always a bunch of pain as change happens. Change is pain. That's bunch of pain as change happens. You know, change is pain. That's one of those life truth things.

And I think our model releases helps users manage that. So I think we probably always want to keep that to some degree. Makes sense. So let me ask you about another forward-looking thing that I saw during this release. And I don't know if I'm saying the name right because I've never heard anybody say it out loud before. Fedora 26 Boltron server? Or Bolt-on? Bolt-er-on? Boltron. It's like Voltron bolted together, right? I don't know. I was kind of what I was thinking that. There's nerd joke in there somewhere. Yeah. So this is actually very related to that, because

the basic problem people have in an operating system and a distribution overall is stuff moving too fast or too slow. And the rolling release basically says everything's going to move fast, and a LTS says everything's going to move slow, and generally nobody's happy with either one of those things. You want something else. So this basically lets us separate the hardware enablement and the base operating system from your applications

and have different streams where those things can actually move at different speeds. So you could, say, have basically a Ruby version that you keep at the same version even as you upgrade the base underneath it and that kind of thing. How is that accomplished? There's a crazy thing called module build service. How is that accomplished? out. We're making this stuff up right now, so check out Boltron and see a little bit how it's going to be accomplished. But if it's successful, it's going to be a kind of a big shift in how we make the distribution. Right now, we're kind of focused on, I'm making this package for Fedora 26, this package for Fedora 25. In the future, if this works out, you'll focus on, I'm making, say, you know, the latest stream of this package, or the latest stream of this package or the stable stream of this package

or the version 1 stream and the version 2 stream. And then you build that stream across all of the underlying base OSs that we produce. This sounds like a feature that must have come from application developer feedback or enterprise customer somewhere. What's the background there? Yeah, well, honestly, it's something I've been thinking about. I've been working on Linux distributions for like 17 years now. So it's kind of been the thing I've been hearing from users all the time.

Like, this is the pain I have. So we wanted to try and address that pain. So this is one stab at doing that, basically. It really got my attention. It sounds like a really cool idea. And there's been a background debate recently about new distributions that are coming up by hardware manufacturers, both Tuxedo and System76. And one of the arguments that both of them has put forward is the LTS is too slow for us, and we have customers that have problems, and the solution to these problems is to replace maybe its Nginx or its PHP

or its SQL server or even the DHCP client on that server to fix this problem. And we end up getting in this weird position of trying to decide if we package that up ourselves and slip it in as a PPA or how to evenly manage this. And it gets to a point where it's, well, screw it. Let's just ship our own OS where we can manage the package releases ourselves. And this could sort of solve that problem. Yeah, that's exactly the idea.

And the problem with the screw it or we're going to do it ourselves approach is that now you've created something that's yet another thing that fits only one use case, right? And then some of your customers are going to have a different use case and they're out of luck. Yeah, that's a good point. So my kind of last question is just really self-serving, but we're sort of at an interesting point here in the studio about what we're considering using for our production distro. To be honest with you, my only question is, what would be the right spin for somebody who wants an extremely – or spin or whatever But CentOS moves too slow for me. What is the solution in the Fedora world for this problem?

Well, so our main solution is that we've tried to work on making upgrades less painful for you so that we don't have a five, six year solution. But basically, they put a lot of engineering into making sure that every upgrade goes smoothly and so that you go from one release to the next and your pain is minimized in doing that. This is, again, like I often get the, you should make a roll and release or an LTS. And since those things are opposite ends of the spectrum, when I dig into it, I often hear, well, I don't want to do that upgrade. It's so painful. So we've worked on making the upgrades less painful. So, yeah, like upgrades to Fedora 25, 26, both on all of my systems have been like half-hour affairs.

I started it when Got Some Coffee came back, and I was like, oh, there we go. And I think especially for a workstation, as GNOME has kind of settled down with GNOME 3 into a nice, comfortable environment, they've got a lot of the rough edges from the initial release sort of polished. And basically it's kind of increasing polish instead of disruptive change every release. Like back in the first couple of GNOME 3 releases, not only was GNOME 3 itself kind of shocking, every point release was also a, oh my goodness, everything's new again. Or there was

GDK breakage. Right. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I feel like that's a really solid answer for the server. I'll just cover really briefly to

just cover it. My Fedora 26 server right now running on DigitalOcean is, yes, I think it's either from Fedora 23 or Fedora 24. And it's a Fedora server install that I then installed, or Cockpit was installed,

and I installed several droplets, one of them a NextCloud instance, one of them a Plex server, and an MB instance. So I have both of those running different containers, and I've been chugging along with the upgrade releases on day one of Fedora releases, which, you know, I'm going to say is... That's kind of unheard of for you. Well, I mean, you know, if you're not in a rush,

go ahead, give it a couple days, let it sit, you know? But, nope, because I've been wanting to talk about it. And sure enough, if not a single thing is broken yet, the thing is still running today. I mean, there's nothing really to report. The upgrade went totally smooth. It's actually – the process is – it's actually pretty good. And Matt, are you the one that writes up the upgrade posts every release? Because these are always easy to find and straightforward.

No, I think Justin Flory wrote those. They're very nice. Oh, yeah, Justin. Yeah, I see that. Yeah. And it's just a simple process. It's really easy to do it through the GUI. But, of course, I'm doing it on a server.

So I always use the different DNF commands. And I'm always pleasantly surprised at how clear DNF is and how safe it is. It does all the downloads. It does all the checks. Then you tell it to do a DNF system-upgrade reboot. It reboots into the kernel of the release you're upgrading from, installs all the packages, verifies everything, does another reboot now into the new kernel, and you're done.

Bob's your uncle. Your cockpit's running again. Your containers are back up and running. That's the one thing that really stood out to me. With that, DLF in general, it seems like it's been thought out. It's well-founded. I can trust it a little bit more than maybe some of the competing package managers. Yeah, so it's funny.

People don't normally think of maybe Fedora on their VPS, but I'll tell you, it's been working solid for me. But I don't know if that's going to hold true, Matt, if you're somebody who has maybe RPM Fusion set up, or you have, I don't know, something outside the Fedora repos, or maybe you have the NVIDIA graphics driver. Isn't it then not exactly as smooth? Yeah, I mean, that's always hard, because we're dependent on other people for those kind of things. And, you know, some of those third party repos package things that we can't even talk about. So that makes the situation difficult. So yeah, that can definitely be a problem. I know that some of them had problems in the past that they're doing better with. We're also, the workstation team is working on building some relationships with NVIDIA and with some of the third-party repo providers where we can't point to, for legal reasons, basically to a third-party repository that has arbitrary things.

But we might build a point-to repository that has just a specific thing that we know is okay for us to point to, something that we wouldn't include in Fedora. It's not free software. We're never going that we wouldn't include in Fedora for, you know, it's not free software. We're never going to include not free software in Fedora directly, but we know people need to make their hardware work. So we would like to make it easy to enable those kind of things or something that, whatever other reason, isn't packaged in Fedora,

but we want to make it available to people. You know, so there was a post recently about some future projects that Fedora is working. In fact, even in the release notes, or the release post on Fedora Magazine for 26, there's sort of an inference in there about some things that are coming down the pipe wire, if you will.

The pipe wire. Can we, if you have just a minute, I'm going to take a minute, I'm going to mention our first sponsor, and that'll be pretty much my last question for you for the day, and then we'll let you get out of here. Everybody head over to linux.ting.com support the show and get a great deal on mobile the way it should work they'll give you a 25 service credit if you bring a device and they have cdma and gsm network so the compatibility factor is high check their byod page or if you need a new one they'll give you 25 off the device i mentioned this because it's really

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So I just really kind of my sort of my last question to you is can we talk a little bit about the stuff in the incubator like Pipewire? That has got my interest piqued. And I've seen a lot of people in our audience that are excited about Pipewire. These are like some crazy projects that are coming from you guys. Yeah. Pipewire is something from the desktop

team and Canome people. I'm not actually sure of all the details of that. You might want to get Kristen Schaller on here sometime. He wrote that blog post. I can talk to him for you guys and get him to talk about some of those things. I might want to get Kristen Schaller on here sometime. He wrote that blog post. I can talk to him for you guys and get him to talk about some of those things. I would love to.

I'm sure he would. I won't completely speak for him, but I'm pretty sure he'd love to do it as well. So I'll talk to him. Yeah. My thoughts are a lot more on how we put together the distro and what we're doing to make it rather than what's going into it. His thoughts are a lot more on how we put together the distro and, you know, what we're doing to make it rather than what's going into it.

His thoughts are a lot more on what's going into it. Here's my meta question about it, though. Why Fedora? I mean, like, there's so many things to be working on. Why are some of these things incubated in Fedora first? I guess I don't – I mean, I understand that everybody wants to make the experience better, but there are some mountains that some distributions don't ever seem to want to take on. And then Fedora comes along and just sort of nonchalantly says, yeah, well, we're going to, we're going to replace the entire audio video pipeline on Linux, or we're going to rework the

way network management is handled, or, hey, you know, what would be great is if we had this unified init system across all distributions like there's this crazy like nobody can do that kind of projects that get started over in your camp and i don't i what is it i mean what is it why yeah it's it's foundational to what fedora is it's basically it's um one of our you know fedora we have these fedora foundations which are like the project values so um features is one of those things where we try and get all these things that are going to be the next generation of the operating system and get the new version of the software there. And we want to experiment with it first. So it's part of what we're here for.

So it makes it a natural place for people who are interested in that kind of thing. So then it's sort of self-fulfilling because it attracts people who want to do those kind of things. And also, you know, we've got a slant towards saying, yes, we're going to do that. Why the hell not? All right.

Well, you know, Matt, is there anything else you want to add to all this before we wrap it up with you? I don't think so. I think this has been great. I'm glad your upgrade went well. I was a little bit prepared for it. And then everything horribly exploded.

But no, in fact, I've heard just a lot of good things today. So it's been a very successful, nice release day with very few fires. I mean, it seems like a release that's just got a lot of improvements and a lot of refinements. It's not anything that's dramatic, right? Yeah. I do have to say that the wallpaper is like the most beautiful Fedora wallpaper I've ever seen. And I'm lobbying to keep it for a couple of releases. It's so nice. It's surprising too, like how well it looks, like when you bring up like the applications menu,

when you log, I logged into the Plasma desktop and it had that background on there, and just the colors matched the menu bar so well. And also the shape there, the tree line, is actually based on the waveform of somebody saying Fedora, so it's also super geeky. Jeez, that's awesome. I have to endorse. I really appreciate you saying that because the first time I saw it, I thought, oh, that's a waveform.

Oh, no, those are trees. So that's awesome. I've seen a few waveforms in my day. And it was a nice example of collaborative design, too, where the design group, which is a bunch of community people from all over the world, kind of started with this idea of a waveform and then iterated on it until we came out with this. So I really love it. That is great. Yeah. So if you guys want to see that, either install Fedora or you can go check out the Fedora magazine post

where matt went through uh the new release matt thank you so much for coming on the show looks like a great release and uh hope to hear from you soon yeah thanks again i'll be love to talk to you again later and i will talk to christian see if i can get him on your show that would be awesome thank you love to chat with him have a good one cool yep bye so i had a chance to also like i was saying kick the tires on the plasma edition which is the first time I've ever done that. I've always gone gnome. Always have, because, you know, it's just such an obvious, solid gnome.

It's Adora. So I've just, just got started. But, you know, out of the box, it does look really, it looks really nice. It's definitely, it's got me thinking about some of the woes we've had here in the studio. And right now I have been leaning Ubuntu LTS with maybe like a OBS PPA or something like that.

But now I'm just kind of wondering if I installed an OBS rig or Fedora 26 rig and tried to put OBS on there. What would that look like? Yeah. Hmm. I don't know. I think it might be worth trying.

Well, with all this stuff, like you've been playing a lot with Docker and we covered some of the stuff about running even X apps in SystemD containers. Like, it seems like there's a lot of maybe the application relative unavailability of Fedora that we sometimes talk about. Maybe that's less of a thing in this modern Linux world. Well, and speaking of that, Minimac, you were saying that it's actually much better

as far as, like, the community goes with keeping up with Fedora releases now. Yeah, it is, definitely. For example, OBS Studio is available now on Fedora 26 on release day. Third-party repositories are really available, most of them. And I'm always surprised. You see, Chris, you're talking about a Fedora 26 server with Docker and everything, and I'm running that on a Chromebook with two gigs of RAM, and I have OBS Studio running here with my webcam and everything.

I'm really surprised. That's a really good distribution. Really cool. Wow. Really cool. Wow. I'm thinking about quitting another distribution that shall not be named. Oh, yeah.

Hmm. It does seem to be – I mean, it's always nice to look. I mean, I'm going to be honest. I've always been a bit of a hopper. I stayed on the Arch for quite a while, but my hopper tendencies have been coming back recently, if I'm going to be honest with you. You know, Mr. Wes, did you get a chance to try...

Before we go on, I didn't want to say anything else, but before we go on, are you running it right there? Oh, yeah. And you're running the Gnome version? I am. I would be really interested to hear your thoughts, because I have not tried the Gnome one. You know, it's actually pretty slick i i hate the default theme a lot less than i

normally do like honestly i just installed it i've done no customization it's pretty usable i could use this for a while eventually i would probably want you know arc dark or whatever installed a few little tweaks here and there dash to dock whatever all the normal things but right here it's pretty nice and i was very impressed with like they have a nice little welcome screen kind of gets things set up the gnome gnome software has improved a lot over the over the years so like that's almost that's like a decent experience and i've almost always had some kind of problem with anaconda it's always been my least favorite of the common installers this time for okay first time it crashed on me and i had to i just rebooted and did it again but that that time, it worked perfectly.

I have kind of a weird partitioning scheme because there's already a couple OSs on here. And in the past, that's really caused problems. This time, nope, easy. Yeah, and that's the new – Matt, are you still by the mic by chance? Because that's one thing we didn't mention is there's a new partitioner in Anaconda if you do the custom partitioning setup. I am still here, yeah. Is there anything more to add to that? Is it like it's got a new name or I can't remember?

Yeah, it's called Blivit GUI, which is, I don't know, some sort of in-joke of some sort. I actually would like it to be something a little more polished in the UI, but we'll get to that eventually. The basic thing is when there's a big Anaconda rewrite, like in Fedora 17 or 18 or something like that, and it was based on a lot of user studies on how people install systems, and the idea basically is instead of telling it,

I've got this disk and this disk, and I want to make a partition on it and a logical volume, and then this and this and this, and building it up, you would say I've got these disks, I would like redundancy, I would like a journaling file system, give it to me. And then it would determine your configuration from that, so it's kind of a top

down thing. And I think that's good, especially for people who, you know, when I say partitions and logical volumes, they kind of get a panic look. It's really great for that. But a lot of people have special cases that they feel that colored or, you know, they definitely want to have, you know, partition, you know, the first partition be home because that's important to them. Or they are just more comfortable doing the build-up kind of thing and so those people have for a long time felt like the you know installer

fedora installer doesn't suit their needs so this basically adds a third option that's kind of a true you know partition manager thing that can do a lot of very sophisticated things for a build-up from the bottom environment. On the other hand, you can, and I did several times in testing, make systems that will not boot that way. So it really is for if you know what you're doing, this lets you do it. Yeah, I did play around with a little bit that definitely echoes. It seems, you know, there's not a lot of hand-holding, but it is a lot more reminiscent of what you get in a lot of other installers or even just something like, you know, Gnome Disks or Gparted.

And if you're going off in that neck of the woods, that's probably the tool you want. Yeah, it's like a power user escape hatch, which I think is actually pretty nice. I didn't use it ultimately to install my system. I went back to the standard custom solution. But really, I think as it evolves, I'll be happy to use it. Yeah, and one of the UI problems we have a lot with that is our installer people discovered that if you have an advanced option, people will always pick it, even if it's going to make their life miserable. So we wanted to try and figure out how to phrase it properly to get people steered not to choose it if they didn't know what it was. So possibly leaving it named Blivit GUI is the right thing for that for now, but

we'll figure that out. Hmm. It's a pretty, like I said, it's a nice solid release with tons of new stuff from upstream, because I mean, just bringing in that new Gnome release, and now also the new Plasma release, and then Anaconda gets some nice improvements.

It's worth checking out for Dora 26, and if you're crazy like me, it's also very deployable on your DigitalOcean droplet. What? If you go to DigitalOcean right now, create an account and use our promo code, DOUNPLUGGED. Apply that to your account and you'll get a $10 credit. Now, at the moment, it's Fedora 25 is what's deployable on DigitalOcean. Right. However, I just did it a little bit during the show.

I spun up a 25 instance, and I upgraded it to Fedora 26, just clean install, worked flawlessly. So if you want to run that, you can also do that too. I'll link to, in the show notes, I have a link to how to upgrade from Fedora 25 to Fedora 26. I've been, I have a droplet now on this, on DigitalOcean. It's four years old. I did not realize I've been on DigitalOcean. It's four years old. Wow.

I did not realize I've been using DigitalOcean that long. Four years. It's an Archbox. It's an Archbox. Good work. You've been doing your updates. I've been keeping on. I've been keeping on.

And I've now also been running a Fedora droplet for ages. And then I've got a bunch of Ubuntu droplets. And they offer free BSD and a bunch of other distributions. It's a really easy way to spin up infrastructure on demand, whether you want something personally for yourself or hosting for your business. Everything's SSDs from the low priced rigs all the way up to the high priced rigs.

They have stuff with like 512 megs of RAM for a nice slim system with things up to like over 200 gigs of RAM, tons of CPU cords, terabytes and terabytes of transfer. You can have team accounts, highly available block storage. They're beta testing object storage right now. They have loads of pre-built open source apps that you can just one click deploy and they're not like magic script setups. It's legitimate. Like if an expert system administrator built a system to host NextCloud, that's how it looks.

And like one of my favorite ones to do is just a quick test. I can deploy a base LTS system with Docker on it, try something, and then destroy it and spend like three cents. It's amazing. So great. DigitalOcean.com. Use the promo code D-O-Unplugged. And yes, yes, you can run Fedora there as a matter of fact. You crazy cats, just like I have been. And you know what I

do is I set up Fedora on there, and then I just manage my Fedora box through Cockpit all the time. It's a super solid way. Yeah, it's a super solid way to keep a Fedora system running. And then in Cockpit, there is a really simple, straightforward system to search for new Docker images, click on them, pull them down, and then the first time you set them up, you can set up all of the port forwarding, you can set up paths, and there's a UI to just set all of that stuff,

and you hit save, and boom, everything just works. That seems perfect for the casual admin. You're not doing it every day, but you know the concepts. Maybe you forgot that command line switch. Cockpit makes it just right there. It's nice. It's really nice. And the other thing that's really cool about it is we've covered the security architecture of it a couple of weeks ago, if you recall,

and it's really soundly built, too. So I actually feel pretty safe running it. It's a pretty solid innovation. You know, this is sort of tangentially related to Fedora because they've been shipping Wayland by default now since the last release, and it looks like, according to Will Cook, who's the head of the desktop team over at Canonical, that they're considering backing off of their decision to ship Wayland in Ubuntu 17.10, which could then ultimately impact the LTS in 2018.

Now, I think this announcement has been – it's not really an announcement. It's a discussion at this point, so keep that in 2018. Now, I think this announcement has been, it's not really an announcement. It's a discussion at this point. So keep that in mind. This is not like this is being like announced officially. This is them discussing their gut feelings about maybe Wayland not being ready yet. And I think that's actually the fascinating thing about it is that is a conversation to be had. Is it stable enough?

They said they've taken some input from their users that have been in testing and seen stability issues with both Weyland and ex-Weyland. My gut feeling, Will Cook said, is that Weyland isn't ready yet. That's a tough thing because you want to skate, obviously, to where the puck is going, and you want to get this thing tested in the 17-10 release before 18-04 hits. And you've got, obviously, the Fedora distribution has been shipping it for a while. But, you know, they had some legitimate use case problems that they've had people writing in to them or in their testing that have come up. So it's, I don't know.

The flip side of that, right, is that we need this kind of, like, we want Wayland to be really good. We want it to be rock solid for the future. We need these kinds of, you know, like, sometimes it takes another, you know, big distribution being like, okay, can we really use this? What would that look like to make sure that we do iron out all those bugs and make it stable? Because we don't want another thing where, like, pull the pulse audio rollout or whatever, where now no one trusts Wayland. It's not going to get good rep. Maybe less developers want to work on it. Well, it's just the hard truth of default rules supreme.

So you could even include Wayland as a session option, you know, GNOME parentheses Wayland. And then you could have GNOME X11 as the default. But you're just going to have a dramatic volume difference between the amount of users testing it and submitting bug reports if you do that. It's going to be a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the Ubuntu user base would use that. Pretty much people who probably might install it anyway. I mean, I can tell you all of my Arch systems right now that are running in this studio all have an option to log into GNOME on Wayland, and I never do it.

I've had problems. Especially I've had problems with Chrome, and I just don't. I'm waiting it out. I just, but at some point you're right. You've got to rip the Band-Aid off. And Wayland is really at this point becoming a joke if we can't get this thing out the door. It's been years in development.

Now, I guess, you know, if you look at it in the grand scheme of things, I think X has been around since Reagan was president. So I don't know if that's true, but it feels like it probably is true, actually. You just have a long timeline. So I guess if you consider in the grand scheme of things, Wayland is still just a young pup. And I guess maybe this is just a long haul, but this stuff isn't easy. And it sounds like the Ubuntu devs are just uncertain about which way to go. So we'll just have to stay tuned. I'm going to keep watching it.

There's also a little follow-up news to something we covered before, GR Security. Remember when we mentioned GR Security was sort of branching off and doing their own thing and closing up their patch set against the Linux kernel, which promises to make the Linux kernel super secure. And now they're releasing it in this stable patch access agreement license that says that you can take this GPL code, but you're not allowed to share it. And if you do, we're going to revoke your access. And they kind of have people really sort of by the elbow here because these are oftentimes

business customers that have systems out on the web. They're doing e-commerce that are being audited, and this is how they say they're secure is because they have this, you know, oh yeah, we've hardened Linux. We've hardened our Linux with GR security. We've hardened it. It's used a lot by, like, multi-tenant hosts or people running, like, OpenVZ containers

or other things like that. And so they, what are they going to do? You know, they've been using this thing for years, and then one day these guys decide to go, ah, no, we're going commercial product. And you've got to pay. Huh? What's that? No, you pay.

You pay. You can take it and you can use that GPL software, but you've got to pay and you can't do anything with it. If you distribute that, if you make modifications to it and you share that GPL code with anybody, we're going to come after you. That's kind of crazy. And it's got a few people's attention. It got our attention a few weeks ago. We talked about it here on the show. And Linus, about a week ago, really ripped him a new one

saying that their code quality was just garbage. Not really even concerning, not even really mentioning the license issues, but just saying that, you know, they're a bunch of basically dweebs is what he said. I mean, he said it in harsher terms. Well, there is a gentleman, Bruce Perns, who is an advisor to lawyers. So wrap your head around that for a second. And what does he advise those lawyers about?

GPL compliance. You see where we're going here. Now that GR Security has taken their patch set that they claim makes Linux better, and they've wrapped it behind the stable patch access agreement, customers are warned that if they redistribute any of this GPL code, there's going to be a penalty. Well, here's the problem.

You can't deny this one fact. GR security is a patch for the Linux kernel. It's inseparable from Linux. GR security does not work without Linux. So this would fail a fair use test. Because it's strongly derivative nature of the kernel, it must be under GPL version 2 license or a license compatible with GPL

and with terms no more restrictive than the GPL. And there is a pretty clear clause of the GPL. It's GPL Section 6, which specifically prohibits any additions of terms as well. So they're also violating it by wrapping these additional terms. They really got themselves in a pickle here, and I think these guys are ripe for the picking. I mean, I think this is going to be one juicy, juicy pickle that somebody's going to come along and decide to take a bite out of. Nobody has yet. There's no lawsuits yet.

But there seems to be some pretty solid GPL violation issues here. And then this Bruce guy here at the bottom of his post is like, by the way, if you want to consult with me and sue these guys, it's essentially what he says. He doesn't say it like that. Oh, wow. Give me a call, Skies, and we'll work something out here. So it's open hunting season for GRC. You got Linus coming after him. You got obvious GPL compliance questions.

And there's been a lot of, let's say, drama back and forth between the projects. I mean, for a long time, but even more recently, they had some threats of lawsuits against people like Keith Cook and the Linux Self-Protection Project for using their work without proper attribution. And's just this whole culture of like they've certainly had some innovations they've done a lot of good research but it's been a long history of

not using the kernel standard not making patches that have any hope of doing it and they just you know there's a very almost in a similar style to open bsd it's a security first but of course linux is never going to ship a broken kernel no even if it is more secure. Well, stop right there. I mean, that is a huge red flag is if GR security is based intrinsically on upstream and they have a hostile relationship with upstream. Well, that doesn't lead to a good product. That's not how you set up a winner. So this is a difficult situation for them for sure. And I don't know if it really has a direct impact on us unless any of you out there are working in businesses that use this. But it's sort of a fascinating one to sit back from the rafters and watch a bit.

You know, we have a little NF table stuff to get to. But I also have a couple of cool apps that I've been itching to talk about. I wonder, let's do this. Let's talk about this, just this quick little open source app that we found this week, because this is just a real quickie. It's called iWant, and it's a decentralized peer-to-peer file-sharing command line application,

and this came across both Wes's radar and mine, and it's just a CLI tool for searching and downloading files on your LAN network without any central server, which I think that's kind of cool. It includes easy discovery of files, so it's sort of like a search-type syntax. You can download it from multiple machines on your network.

This could be handy for us because we have large media files that we're distributing. You can do entire directory downloads, and obviously, as you would hope, it does support resumption of file transfers. It is very careful about getting consistent data. Any changes made to files inside a shared folder are instantly reflected on the network.

It works on Linux, it works on Windows, and it works on the Mac, although I think this guy even admits, like, hmm, Mac version, meh, I wouldn't use it quite yet. And if you want to give it a go, just pip install iWant. It might also be in the AUR. And I think it's kind of, it sounds like a really cool way to just toss files around your network. One of the questions

that consistently has come in over the years is, what's the best way to share files that's not Samba? And a lot of times what our answer is, well, if you have one machine that's always on, you could consider setting up some NFS mounts. But a lot of times what we tell people is just use SCP. Just, you know, toss it around on your network using SSH. Kind of not super intuitive for people that are coming from different operating systems. And if you don't have keys set up, there's maybe a lot of passwords

and things. Yeah, or if you have different passwords on different machines. Yeah, exactly. So this could be a nice way, if you have a nice, safe, trusted LAN, like here at the network, here at the JB studios, you know, we have like large files that we want to toss around between our machines, and sometimes just being lazy will just throw it on Dropbox.

Yeah, exactly. And it's like, why go all the way up to the cloud, sync it to all my machines, bring it all the way down, why not just toss that one gig file directly to somebody's machine using something like iWant? And I've played around before with graphical ones, and I think command line's the way to go.

Yeah, especially if you're listening to this show. What? You do say. You do say. You know, I won't be here. I won't be here next week. Are you? How do you feel about that?

Are you okay? Are you going to be good? Well, I mean, I'll miss you, but I think you're going to have a great time. Yeah, I am heading off to... You're going to come back refreshed, ready to podcast? Hmm. Yeah.

Hopefully. I'm going to Montana. I would like to have seen Montana. And it's going to be hot. It's going to be really hot. So hopefully when we get there, it's going to be like 100 degrees. There's some sweaty vlogs coming up. I don't know.

I don't know. The cameras maybe will have to go away from that sweaty. But yeah, I'm going to be there with Noah. He's going to be doing Ask Noah Live from there. Is that right? Yeah. I don't think. The cameras maybe will have to go away if I'm that sweaty. But yeah, I'm going to be there with Noah. He's going to be doing Ask Noah Live from there. Is that right? Yeah. I don't think – Is that Rascal?

No, but I think we have a very special guest, somebody from one of our other shows will be joining us. We'll be joining Wes. We'll be joining Wes because I won't be here. But you guys I think will have a great show. So if you out there in the audience want to help the boys out while I'm gone, head over to jblive.tv next Tuesday and join the mumble room. You can get in the IRC there and just do bang mumble or exclamation mark and get the server information. And then you can hang out with Wes and his special guest next week. It'll be a lot of fun.

So there's a particularly cool little bit of benchmarking and engineering work that was done. And kind of a nice bit of a nice like bit of research that I would have loved to have done if had I had the time, because I've always wondered, like, what is the difference between NF tables and IP tables? And how is this new world? And it does it like scale if you want to set up, say, maybe a Linux firewall? And does it? Is it too much overhead if you just want to have it on your workstation? Like these are all questions I've sort of pondered, but never really sat down to iron out. And so this next piece was a really solid bit of research and write-up.

But I want to mention Linux Academy briefly because I think this is a great opportunity when you get into this kind of stuff. If anything we're talking about goes over your head, consider going over to Linux Academy. Or if you just want to just step your skill level up a bit, stay competitive, maybe get a new job or just look good in a review, Linux Academy. Start by going to linuxacademy.com slash unplug. Sign up for a free seven-day trial of the Linux Academy platform. It's a place to learn everything about Linux. They have self-paced, in-depth video courses, hands-on labs that give you real experience with this stuff. And I think probably one of my favorite features that really makes Linux Academy stand out. And this is really possible because they're really all in on Linux. It's not just something they do. It's not just something they cover,

along with the Cisco stuff and the Microsoft stuff. This is what they do. Everything from the nitty-itty-bitties all the way up to like the big stuff like OpenStack and AWS and Azure. They have the entire Linux pipeline. And that's why they can offer instructor mentoring, full-time human instructors who know this material top to bottom because this is what they focus on. That's a huge differentiator for Linux Academy. They have these virtual servers that they spin up simultaneously with your courseware, which is a really cool thing

because you're going along and it's like, okay, now SSH into this and try this out. Boom! My mind was blown the first time I did that which is a really cool thing because you're going along and it's like, okay, now SSH into this and try this out. Boom. My mind was blown the first time I did that because it's like, I can sit there with the material on my screen, and then in my favorite console, I'm SSH'd in just like it would be any other system I'm working on. It's just a brilliant way to learn.

It's especially great for things like AWS where you're like, how much is this going to cost me? I don't really understand. I'm just trying to learn. You don't even have to worry about it. Let them take care of it. Linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Big thank you to Linux Academy for sponsoring the Unplugged program.

Linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Send it for a free seven-day trial at linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. So this is benchmarking NF tables over at the developers.redhat.com blog. And it was posted by Phil. It was a little bit ago, but it was something that kind of, I think, came across Wes's radar, and he passed it on to me, and I was pretty fascinated by it. And for starters, it's just interesting to see how he decided to do this. He wanted to figure out how different firewall setups affected performance, and so he messed around with a simple test framework, which he could feed a bunch of

different setup snippets, and then cycle through them. And then he could test scalability with these snippets by adding like a number and a scale ranger from zero to 100. And then the test script would go off and it would run each possible value to that scale. And then each value equals a multiple of five benchmarks. And those are then performed, repeated nine more times, and the results are all plotted out with nice, beautiful graphs, and we end up in this post. And what we get here is some rather interesting revelations, including the fact that it seems to be that there is a bit of a performance difference that is fairly noticeable between IP tables and NF tables on really small setups, like, you know, 20 or fewer rules or even like 100 or fewer rules. IP tables may actually be more performant than NF tables. But IP tables, if I read this correctly, there is, and same to a degree with NF tables, but I'll talk about that more in a second. With IP tables, there is some suffering of performance

as the number of rules increases, not too surprising. So the overhead introduced with adding rules becomes less and less significant the more rules there are with NF tables, because NF tables handles this in a little bit different way. It sort of does some of the logic ahead of time, and it eats that cost initially. And then that cost is essentially spent, that money, that time is spent. And then it is able to scale up more rules much, much faster in performance than IP tables, which has to go through the chain and consider every single rule every time. And so it's interesting because at the smaller scale, that might actually be advantageous with IP tables, depending on your setup. But if you consider NF tables as still early days and they're still working on it, that seems like a performance gap they're going to probably close as well. Right. Really been focused on functionality, not optimization yet.

What was your take from some of this stuff? Was there anything that jumped out at you as sort of an interesting result? Just so many tests between these systems. There's a lot to dig into this one. it's just so many tests between these systems that there's a lot to dig into this one um for me i think that one of the bigger things is like yes there's still some you know there's still early days around nf tables some of the command line stuff needs to be worked out some of how that works there's some unintuitive bits especially if you're already familiar with ip tables and kind of the defaults the default chains and tables and things that already exist

um but i'm really excited what struck struck me is like, it looks like nftables and like the NFT command, there's going to be a lot of things that we can do with this in more intuitive ways than we can now. In particular, I think this article highlights that, you know, if you want to do kind of traffic control things, there's the TC application, which is part of IP route two. But it is one of the least intuitive command line applications I've ever used. If you actually need to do things with it, I would definitely recommend something like Fire QoS that can help automate that in a sane way.

But not only is the way nftables uses netfilter to accomplish some of the same things easier to do, it looks like it's actually a little more performant. So that story on Linux might be getting a little bit better, which I think is great. Did you see the part here? And I just sort of read the highlight of this section because I thought I'd pass it on to the audience. He also performed DDoS protection testing to see how NF tables stood up versus IP tables and get a bunch of different ways to see how they handled it. And I took away that essentially They handled it.

And I took away that essentially NF tables probably would handle this better in an actual situation. But I don't know. I thought I would list all that in there because part of what he tested to see was, like you were saying, is TC and blacklisting IP addresses in real time and stuff like that and cycling through 100,000 packets per second using package gen and just all kinds of cool stuff the way he set this up. So it's a fascinating read if you guys want to read through the whole thing. The TLDR might be the most prominent information to draw from the experiment is that similar IP tables and NF table setups are comparable in performance. NF tables is usually a bit behind, but given that the development focus at this point is still on functionality, like you were saying, it's going to be changing.

IPset is a blessing to any IP table setup. NF tables follows their path with their native implementation and their concepts. Then NF tables could be in a great spot too. He says he's not still convinced of his test results. He still thinks there's probably no point in breaking a leg over implementing something in TC if the same thing is possible in NetFilter. Yeah, that's a good summary. It's a good post, and it looks

like, I don't know, if you're considering setting up a Linux firewall, you might want to read it and just decide, depending on what your scale is, what would work for you. Yeah, definitely. And it might be we're getting close enough maybe now, in a similar vein to Wayland, perhaps, where you know especially if maybe for home use right i don't need i don't have crazy you know uh performance concerns for my house exactly i might be the time where i could

convert over to you know nft and see what happens and start just sort of learning now and then because that's kind of where things are going yeah right i mean it'll be years yet i'm sure before i want it on the production server but but someday. One little story before we go. Oh, I know that sound. Your buddies over at Gabe's office are working on some big updates to the Steam client. I saw this over on GamingOnLinux.com, and I'll just cover a moment of what they are planning to do, because it's from them.

Another thing we're working on is a major redesign of the Steam client, which is probably far overdue. So that includes a redesign of the whole Chrome of the Steam client, which is probably far overdue. So that includes a redesign of the whole Chrome of the Steam desktop client. But I think probably the most relevant and interesting thing for you guys is going to be the redesigns that we're working on for the Steam library section in particular. So once a customer owns your game, what is that experience like in Steam? Talking to developers, obviously. Let's get forward a couple there.

There's kind of two big parts of that update in the library. One is going to be a new library home screen. If you've used big picture mode at all and you go into your library, there's kind of a similar thing that's in Steam big picture mode, which surfaces games that your friends are playing right now, surfaces things that you've recently played, surfaces recently updated games. We're taking that and we're building on that so that when a customer comes and logs into Steam, if they really just want to go back and play the last game they were playing,

it's super easy to launch it right from there. We're not making that any harder. I'm going to leave the rest of the video for you guys. It's 42 minutes long, so I'm not going to play all that in the show. But good to hear that an update's coming, and yes, it includes one to Linux. That's kind of nice. It's good to see that, too. Yeah. Are you much of a gamer, Wes? Have we ever talked about that?

I don't think we really... We haven't really done a gaming episode since you've been a host. No, we haven't really. Yeah. You know, I am... I don't get very much time to play games these days, but I do really enjoy it, and I try to find time here and there on the weekend to do it. I'm, I've not yet set up in my new place.

I've not yet set up my, my gaming tower, but it's on the list of things to do. So maybe we can do that here shortly. Yeah, that would be, you know, maybe one day,

maybe people don't love it. So we'll just do it. Yes, but we would love it. Yeah, right. Exactly. Hey,

that sounds like great fun. Before we go, I want to mention that we're doing a little sweepstakes for a Dell XPS 13 developer edition, which means one of the Linux machines. You've heard Chris talk about it. Now you can have it in your hands. Yeah, Spick and Span, brand new one shipped directly from Dell. Now, this is U.S. residence only. This is just sort of the way that this particular one has to be.

And you have to be 18 years or older. But if you're in the U.S. and are perhaps interested in getting a Dell XPS 13, you can enter the sweepstakes to win. Go to jupiterbroadcasting.com, click on the shows menu option, and choose the user air drop-down, and then

you can enter to win there, and we'll be announcing it here soon before, I think it's coming up. Now, since I won't be here, you probably won't hear much about it next week. So I just wanted to mention it now because it's a great opportunity. And then stay tuned to the User Air program for the winter. Yeah. We'll be announcing it in there.

We just also, last week, User Air went out a little late. So episode 16, Desktop as a Surface, went out. User Air 16 includes things from more discussion about LTS overrolling, particularly in certain production environments. The east slash west divide of Linux that seems to keep coming up. Two different types of cultures that are

clashing there. We talk more about the Linux laptop survey, and actually we really dug into that for a bit, and then end up with Microsoft's desktop as a service announcement and sort of how that affects Linux users, maybe helps good and bad. So it's a pretty great episode of User Air. It's episode 60. I know what I'm doing after the show.

You know what I'm doing after the show? I actually have two ribeyes from the barbecue last week cooking in the sous vide machine right now. So when you're doing TechSnap, I'm going to be finishing those up. I am still eating off of the extra food. That's amazing. Of course, I'm fasting too here and there, but it stretches it out. But yeah, there was just so much good stuff here.

Really great, great people, great time. It was such a good time. So if you missed last week, go check out last week's episode of the Unplugged program. It was a lot of fun hanging out with them folks. Well, Mr. West, I just mentioned it there. People can find more of you on the TechSnap program.

Oh, yeah. Stay tuned. You and Dan doing that. They do it live right after this show, so if you want to come next week and hang out with Wes and his special guest and then just stay tuned, keep it up, and you just get to watch the TechSnap program. Yeah, it's awesome.

You are a busy man. You know it. Back to back right there. You can also participate in the mumble room, bang mumble when you're in our IRC room, which is, again, at jblive.tv. And the live times are all posted at the calendar at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar.

You can also go to our subreddit, linuxunplugged.reddit.com. You can leave us feedback at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash contact. You can tweet me at ChrisLAS. Follow the network at Jupiter Signal. I won't be here next week. I'll miss you. But the show will go on.

That's right, it will. And I think it's going to be a really good one. Oh, yeah. First time special guest on this show. So that's going to be really cool, too. It's a first time special guest. We'll put them through their paces. That's for sure.

I'm sure we will. I'm sure we will. Okay, everybody. Thanks so much for tuning into this week's episode of the Unplugged program, and we'll see you right back here next Tuesday. Goodbye, everybody! Thank you. Oh, boy.

The chat room was punny today. Look at these titles. A fitting fedora. The new fedora fits well. Fedora's new hat trick. Oh, man. Most of these bad ones are WW's fault. No, I'm kidding.

Ouch. JamieTitles.com. Now we gotta go pick our title. Hey, hey. At least I did it. I'm not the one that came up with Boltron. You can't blame me for that. That Boltron title, though. I kinda liked it. I got it, because I'm like, Bolt on. But it's Boltron,

which is even cooler. Those Fedora guys are working on some good stuff over there. I'll tell you what. It really is impressive. I cannot believe that I have pushed a Fedora server install that far, running like NextCloud and all that stuff. Like it's, you know, maybe it's the new way. Maybe it's the new normal.

I don't know. Or maybe I'm lucky. The hipster BSD. It was easy. I will say while you were doing that, I installed OBS on the fedora. No. Super easy. They actually have instructions

that just add the art. Which version? Can you see which version it is? I just rebooted back to art so I can, but I'll check later. That's cool. That's cool.

That's cool. This on our production one here is 19.02. Okay. 1902-1. JimmyTotals.com. The fedora, the tree speaks fedora.

The tree speak fedora. What is that a reference to? The tree speak fedora.com The Fedora. The Tree Speaks Fedora. The Tree Speak Fedora. What is that a reference to? The Tree Speak Fedora. I don't know. I'm not sure either. Five people seem to think they get it, though, because it's got five upvotes. It's like the number one title.

It's the wallpaper. Oh. It's the wallpaper. That means Fedora. Right. It is a nice wallpaper, I will say. That title, though, is such a head-scratcher when you see that. You know what's funny? I honestly 100% thought that was a way. It's like, oh, I will say. That title, though, is such a head-scratcher when you see that.

You know what's funny? I honestly 100% thought that was a way. It's like, oh, wait. Nope, trees. Yep. That was interesting. Yeah, I get it now, XM. I get it now.

Okay. Oh, remember how I have ribeyes cooking? Rolling pain. That's not bad. Rolling pain. It's atomic fedora. Fedora's tree line. Fedora incubator. Does Boltron Treeline. Fedora Incubator.

Does Boltron bend? The Fedora Fiasco. Fedora. Fedora Adora. Ah, JBTitles.com. JBTitles.com. There's a lot of titles. A lot of titles.

I'm just going to put it. There's a lot of titles over there. There's a lot of titles. I'm not saying that much more than that. That's crazy. Crazy. It is crazy. Yippee! Yay! So here, I also appreciated this.

Fedora handles UEFI very nicely. Let me just say that. I like that a lot because it did not screw up my Arch UEFI install. And gone are the horrible days of overwriting different bootloaders and things. It's like, I just picked the one. Yep. Boom. Yep. That does feel like the future a little bit, doesn't it?

Yeah. Finally.