LINUX Unplugged - Episode 239: Selling Out for Open Source | LUP 239

Episode Date: March 7, 2018

We chip away at a larger meta topic this week, but before we get there we share a batch of community news, live technical feats & a random post show.

So let me tell you about the, before we just start, actually maybe I'll save it for the show. I'll save it for the show. That could be how we start the show. All right, guys. This is Linux Unplugged, episode 239 for March 6th, 2018. Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's all over the world this week. My name is Chris.

My name is Wes. Hello, Wes. I miss being in the same studio with you. I miss that too. I don't get to watch you, stare at you as you talk. I mean, what? No, that definitely doesn't happen. We'll be reuniting soon. But it's amazing that this is working at all, and I'm very glad to be here. Yeah, yeah, it is.

And we've got a great show. So we've got a couple of interesting things that I want to chew on today, like some big-picture stuff. It does involve Microsoft and other companies, and maybe what your company is doing wrong in open source and how some of these other companies have figured it out, companies that used to battle it. Plus, we've got some interesting project updates, some weird things happening with Java Enterprise and some Ubuntu news, some other things, as well as a few anecdotes from the road, Wes. So I think it's going to be like a fun one.

It's like the pre-scale storm now. Yeah, road trip check-in. You know what's great about this? So this setup right now that we're doing, I'm connected to you through a microphone, a USB interface, and a box running Chrome. That's so lean. It was going to be my XPS 13,

but I ended up actually, I'm on the, you remember the old MacBook that you set up running Arch? How could I forget? We've had such a tender relationship. Yep, yep. So I've got that in here and so I have that running Chrome and connected to a Wi-Fi and yeah.

This is incredible. It's amazing what we can do in this modern day. And we haven't even turned this thing up to 11 because we have remote controls into the studio so that way I can do things like bring in the Mumble Room. Time-appropriate greetings, Mumble Room. What's up? Hello.

Hey, hey, hey. Woo. That was amazing. That was good. Good job, Mumble Room. That was really good. Yeah. You guys are on point.

You know, Wes, I'm kind of missing out right now. Levi and Hadiyah are out exploring Sacramento as I record. Well, that sounds way better. Yeah. Maybe I'll just jump out of the studio, go join them, and good luck on your own, Chris. They're like, well, see you later. I'm like, what? And we're going to go explore the capital. She got an Uber, and they're out walking

around Sacramento. While I'm inside the RV, and it is surrounded by wasps. Down in California, apparently there's bees already, and they're crawling all over my mirrors trying to get in while I do this show. That's my situation. Oh, okay. Wow. Yikes. Well, stay safe now. I'm surrounded by wasps.

Scary. I have no choice but to just sit here, hunkered down, and podcast. So that's what we'll be doing. Well, at least you have us to join you in your suffering. So we're going to start with a couple of big meta topics that I think might come up later on in the show. First one doesn't really have anything to do with Linux other than, well, we're going to get to it in a roundabout way. Jeff Bezos has spent $42 million building a clock that will run for 10,000 years.

This is part of the Long Now Foundation. part of the Long Now Foundation. It was created in 1996 in the hopes to provide a counterpoint to today's accelerating culture and help make long-term thinking more common. One of its initiatives is the Clock of the Long Now, which is designed to run for 10 millennia without any need for human intervention. And Bezos took interest in it six years ago and has invested $42 million. Think about trying to build a system that could last 10 millennia without any human intervention. You can do that with Linux, right?

I mean, I certainly wouldn't try to do it with Windows. I suppose not. The heart of the clock is a titanium pendulum that beats once every 10 seconds. Now, the falling weight that powers the clock can be wound by hand, but it is otherwise kept wound by solar power. Sunlight shines into an aperture in the 500-foot deep chamber in which the clock sits. Oh, that's great.

It then strikes the air-filled cylinder. The expansion of the cylinder provides enough energy to lift the falling weight slightly and also provide some correction for solar noon timing. And one key feature of the clock, and this is kind of weird if you think about it, the displays are not active until a human enters the clock chamber and fully winds the mechanism interesting still

keeping time but it doesn't display time until there's a human there to observe it but yet it's built to last 10 millennia without humans but if there's no human there to observe it it never displays the time just sits there in silence displaying nothing that's keeping time that's that's so weird that is so weird and he spent 42 million dollars on this what do you think 10 millennia 42 million you think that like uh dollars per millennia is a pretty good deal for this or no well actually i mean it kind of does seem like it's a decent deal doesn't it i gotta be honest with you wes it does actually also i imagine the people designing this have had a lot of fun. It seems like a great project, just in that it's weird and kind of interesting.

So it's neat that the crazy rich can fund one-off projects like this. Now, I know that this isn't going to appeal to you, but some of you out there are on Windows. Now, don't deny it. I know it's true. I've seen the download numbers. A good number of you are on Windows, and it just may be getting a little bit easier to run Ubuntu. We talked about this on Linux Action News, and now with only three mouse clicks, once this is completed, you'll be able to get an Ubuntu VM that offers full clipboard integration, drive redirection, and enhanced display performance. Right there, three clicks, in the Hyper-V gallery, boom, Ubuntu 18.04, ready to go. And some of the really cool stuff that

they've done, and I don't know a lot about this, but they've worked with the open source XRDP project to bake in communication to Hyper-V's communication bus, which there's already like a socket that's been upstreamed to the Linux kernel to enable this communication. So it goes from the kernel socket to the Hyper-V socket, and they talk, well, XRDP to transmit the graphics, and it makes it a really fast interface and really low latency for the remote graphics of the VM,

which are not actually remote, depending on how you're using it. Anyways, when you combine it with drive integration, clipboard integration, and XRDP integration over this HV hook or HV SOC system, this is going to be a pretty compelling step up from the Windows subsystem for Linux on a Windows 10 machine. You know, you're sitting there, you're hacking away on something under the subsystem. Ah, screw this. This isn't enough. Well, now three clicks and you have this really hyper-integrated Ubuntu VM. What do you think about this, Wes?

Is this the death knell for VirtualBox on Windows? Oh, yeah. I was going like, what does this mean for people switching from Windows to Linux? My brain's been racing with that. I hadn't thought about the competitors. This is like home turf advantage. flow but are already using virtual machines. So it seems like this rolling out when it does will have an immediate impact there as well. I can also imagine developing, you know, as you're saying, in the subsystem, but then still having a fleet of, you know, development servers running locally in these VMs and be able to test there.

I almost don't need a Linux laptop, and that's a little scary. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's two ways to look at it. Yeah, that is scary. You're right. Yeah, I mean, it could potentially mean less Linux switchers. That's definitely a possibility. But there's another way to look at it.

It's possible that now more people will be using Linux. Yeah, the barrier to entry now is a lot lower. They get hooked on the good sauce, right? And they'll be like, why am I running this in a virtual machine? Once they get the first taste. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, once they get the first taste for free, right? And then they'll go out and buy

um how insidious yeah no uh also speaking of this kind of stuff oh does somebody else have something they want to add from go ahead mobile i heard somebody else by the way um i think they just added debian and cali linux support in the windows store as well yeah that's what i was just going to mention is caliali Linux is in there now as part of the subsystem, I guess. Or is this part of the Hyper-V stuff? I don't really know. It's a subsystem. Hmm.

And it doesn't have the hacking tools. Like, you have to install that separately. So, I mean, I'm sure it's pretty easy to do that, but... Yeah. I thought they don't got Gen 2. Wow. Well, this is...

Kali Linux is one of those tools that, you know, Windows administrators still end up using because it's just a really good tool to test yourself. And it has everything. It often comes with a lot of things pre-configured, perhaps not in this case, but... Yeah, but if it has scripts to set that stuff up, that's probably legit.

Yeah, that could be legit. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not super jazzed up about it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're all kind of like, man, man, it's good to see it. And it means more users for Kali. But they probably might just run it

in one of those fancy new VMs anyway. Yeah, yeah, that's true. You could. You could if that XRDP stuff goes upstream, which Microsoft did submit it upstream, and the HV hook stuff is already upstream, and it's integrated into kernel 4.15, then any distro could really take advantage of that. So yeah, you're right. That would probably be a great way to use Kali, because then you would have the full Kali. I'm just trying to think if there's any network stuff that wouldn't work because of the virtualized

card, because that could be a possibility. You would have to configure that, depending on what you're trying to do. That's for sure. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know, Wes. You know what? The only way to find out would be for you to get a Windows 10 machine and test it, I guess.

You're right. Oh. You know, I want to take a moment and thank Ting. Why don't we do that right here? Go to linux.ting.com. I was really, really impressed yesterday. When I sat down, I compared all the different carriers that I had with me, and the Ting CDMA was the fastest, but more importantly, the lowest latency.

And sure enough, sure enough, here I am now in Sacramento, same thing. I would have swore it would have been the GSM network. That's what I love about Ting is they have both, and I just turn these devices on when I'm traveling because it's $6 for the line. And so honestly, if you have a backup line or a data device you need to use occasionally or a phone that you can just be kind of savvy about using Wi-Fi within $6 a month, that's nothing. That's nothing. Linux.ting.com is where you go to get started and you get $25 off a device. Or if you bring one that's compatible, just check their BYOD page, they'll give you $25 in service credit.

Now, your average Ting bill is going to be around $23 all in, probably before Uncle Sam's cut. $23 for your minutes, your messages, and your megabytes, and the $6 for the line. So a $25 credit will probably pay for more than your first month. Cause that's how ting rolls. Linux dot ting.com. Go there and then check out their blog post about comparing their, their, uh,

wifi there. I mean their internet connection with wifi. So their LTE with wifi and the differences there. I was super impressed. I was just talking to Wes on the pre-show. I pulled up, I was getting 22 down. Even if it got as high as 28, uh, and I was just talking to Wes on the pre-show. I pulled up. I was getting 22 down. Even it got as high as 28 up.

Oh. And I was getting, yeah, I know. It was just nuts. Those are some numbers. But, you know, the thing was that really rocked is I was getting around 18, 20, 15 millisecond ping time to the different servers. Yeah. And right now where I'm at, I'm getting around 30 milliseconds, which is still really, really outrageously great. That puts it in that territory where you start thinking about differently, right?

It's not just this shaky MiFi connection. It's a real first-class internet connection. We can use it for broadcast. Exactly. Which is great. In fact, I'm thinking about when we get to the next story, I'm tempted to try turning up the broadcast quality another notch. Because I have it turned down right now because I'm also remote team viewer into machines in the studio. And I'm thinking about just pushing Ting to the limit

and turning it up another notch. I don't even know what the software would do, but damn if it isn't tempting. So, you know, I'm going to do it. Go to linux.ting.com. One way this is going to work or another. So I would imagine this is going to disconnect, Wes, and then reconnect.

Okay, we'll hang tight here. So you finish up, tell people, you tell people to go to linux.ting.com, and then we can go over to the Ubuntu store, but I'm going to hit the button. I'm going to go up another notch. I don't know, in three, two, Ting, save me! See, we can't do it without Ting. That's it. Wait, that's it. Wow. It did it.

Wait, oh, I bet you I have to refresh. I bet you it hasn't kicked in yet until I refresh. I'm still tempted to try it, Wes. I know. All right, I'm I have to refresh. I bet you it hasn't kicked in yet until I refresh. I'm still tempted to try it, Wes. I know. I'm going to hit refresh. You ready? Yes. Wish me luck. Here I go. Good luck. Thank you. I'm hitting it. Oh, okay. Well, there we go.

Now we know it was real. It's all possible with Ting. Head on over to linux.ting.com so you can be as impressed and satisfied. And now we're happy to welcome Mr. Chris Fisher back to the Linux Unplugged program. That was great. That was a lot of fun. Oh, that was great.

That's like living on the edge. Talk about real-time adrenaline rush. Now we're up a whole other notch. We're at 128 kilobits now. So, I don't know. Did you start talking about the big exciting news that will probably happen just a little bit after this show? Yeah, okay.

So I may just take a back seat and actually let Simon jump here in a moment. But as we record this, if things go as planned, going by the schedule here on the Ubuntu wiki, we should see beta 1 for 18.04, if not uh tomorrow probably the day after or somewhere around there march 8th and then the opt-in flavors as well but but right before the show started simon started telling us about this and i said wait wait save it for the show so simon pick back up where you left off what's sort of the uh the story that you had to share with the 1804 beta release so with the 1804 beta release? So with the 1804 beta, this is something that we were sort of working on today, actually. And I've been working with Dustin Krysak, who's also here.

We were just sort of gauging interest because for the first two alphas of this release, it ended up being bad timing because we had the Spectre meltdown stuff that went on, so they disabled all the launchpad builders. So we couldn't build anything. And then after that, Alpha 2, we also had some other difficulties. And this is the first 1804 milestone. So you're going to see a couple of different things that you would usually see in a daily build. Just today, for example, we landed a new point release for Qt. That's something that I was working on specifically.

Otherwise, the flavors that I know of participating right now in this are Lubuntu, where it's just general bug fix. Lubuntu Next is also participating in this release, which, you know, it's, Ubuntu Next is going to see a huge overhaul of things with, you know, different applications coming in and different theming and that sort of thing. Then there's, you know, Ubuntu Budgie, Zubuntu is participating, you know, all different sorts of flavors. But this is really, this is really a, you know, sort of a community release because the Ubuntu desktop, they don't participate in any milestone besides the final beta. So this is a really good time, I think, in my opinion, to go and see what's going on in each of the flavors because this is really the first milestone of the 1804 release. So it's really, like I said, it's a really good way to see what people have been working

on thus far. Yeah, and I am tempted to do it. You know, it's funny. 1804 is sort of like 1710, although not quite as strong because it's not the switch to know. But I have a lot of people in my circle of friends and family that I take care of their computers and they're all kind of due now. They, I, some of them weren't on 1604 like Dylan. He's on,

um, I think he's on Loki elementary OS and, uh, Hadia I think is on the last LTS. I can't write before 1604. I can't remember, but she's due for two of her machines to get replaced. Uh, and my dad has a system.

I don't even know if he's using anymore anymore, that I've got to contact him about. Like, 18.04 is going to be one that I think a lot of people in my circle are going to end up using, that I maintain their computers for. People have been waiting, letting things bake. Yeah, you're right. I think it will be kind of how 16 felt like a similar moment in some ways. You know, it will get wide deployment

and suddenly everyone will be on the latest Ubuntu. Including probably Westpain, huh? Oh, yeah. Are you sticking with the Plasma? Including me. Including JJ, too, yeah. What's the Plasma status?

I, so far, have stuck with it. Yes, I have been sticking with it as well. It's been really smooth. I think I got enough configuration down. I know a little bit more about how to tweak the things that I actually care about, where I think I could replicate that pretty quickly on a new install. I'm actually thinking about paving and doing that just to make sure that I'm right there. And with that down, I feel a lot more comfortable with it. Before, it was just that, you know, GNOME had had defaults that I really liked and worked

really well for me. Now that I have that on KDE, it's great. I think the thing that's helped me set up the Neon workstation was I did all KDE Neon, so it's all the same distro. It wasn't a mix this time of Ubuntu and Arch, which is what I've done in the past a lot. That could be more complicated. And I also just sat down once, and the first time i launched dolphin i went through and changed all of the defaults i don't like the first time uh you know i log in i i changed all of the like desktop environment settings that i don't like and so i just

each time just just said okay there's gonna be a slight tax each each time but then once i've done it once if they stay i've gone you know i've gone now for weeks and i haven't had settings revert windows reopen where i want them the console stays the same size i had it last time i know it's so simple but it's so nice and you know you're sitting down there using air master um and you haven't had to reboot it before you could use it like we were having with unity 7 which means none of of the... Also, when you do have to reboot, say for an update or something, it's better at remembering the display output options into the OBS capture center. That is such a tiny thing, but it's like killer for our use case.

Yeah, it really is. It's one of those nice little things. So hashtag Rodden was right. It's a great professional desktop. And I think if a company came along even a company like uh oh man i really shouldn't go down this rabbit hole but like a company like system 76 like you know what would make pop s pop os 10 times more compelling is if they were doing something that wasn't gnome because uh oh really what people could do is right you could just go get their theme on gnome

on on stock ubuntu and call it good and then you're close to mainline you're close to what you're running in production and you still have their design aesthetics but if it was if they were taking their design aesthetics and applying it to the plasma desktop and really just sort of getting down those rough edges uh man that would be i would be a really really compelling distro and it'd really stand out. It would be something that's different. Yeah, there's not a lot of that shipping. And there might be a lot of value that they could have in just having it really well configured from the start.

Now, what do you think, Simon? We don't give enough love to Kubuntu? Yeah, I think Kubuntu is going to have a nice release. Because the 16.04 release really wasn't that good of a release for Ubuntu. So 18.04 is going to be interesting because it's going to be the latest LTS Plasma on top of the latest LTS Qt. And it's going to be baked in with the LTS Ubuntu. So while you do have KDE Neon, with them sunsetting the LTS edition, it might be a good opportunity if you want to try Kubuntu, if you want a really rock-solid, stable KDE Plasma experience. Are we calling it sunsetting? Is that what we're calling it of the LTS edition? Because it's still there.

It's gone. It's going away. So it LTS edition? Because it's still there. It's gone. It's going away. Okay. So it's sunset. It's not able to download, but it's going away. It's just like right now you can still use it, and the repos are still there, but they're focusing away from the LTS version of Neon because there's really no reason for it to be there

because the majority of the time they put their effort into the regular user and that was kind of like the original point of Neon in the first place. They just kind of made the LTS version because it made sense at the time but now like with Kubuntu providing an LTS solution on an LTS base

with a solid LTS release of Plasma there's really no need for it. Yeah, okay. I can see that. I don't think Kubuntu is going to have a lot of interesting updates for the release of 1804 because I'm participating in making those updates.

Oh, can you get any teases, any hints of what we should look for? Well, I mean, if you just boot the kubuntu 1804 you will notice a change immediately with the theming much different so i like one of the things that i did not like about plasma like there's a there's a few things that plasma doesn't do good by default i'm trying to fix those and kubuntu are very receptive to those so that's that's really awesome. One of the biggest things that I'm changing that I've convinced in the change is that the default like breeze theme is super bright and it's kind of awkward for like the panels and widgets and

menus and stuff. So they've switched it so that you have a dark, the dark theme breeze for the panels, the wind, the menus and the widgets with a bright theme for the windows. It's like a hybrid approach. Nice. Well, good on you. I like that sound, Ron, because I've got to tell you. Yeah, I've got to tell you, guys. I have light sensitivity in my eyes, and that's why I wear glasses.

So one of the reasons why, other than my stigmatism, and I've got to tell you, white themes just hurt the heck out of my eyes. So this is a good notice for me as well as another thing I wanted to mention was XFCE and especially Xubuntu. I've been waiting like hell for good XFCE-high DPI support. high dpi support so i'm thinking of until that happens to have um kubuntu installed and have this with my macbook because i gotta tell you i hate that xfc doesn't have good high dpi support right now yeah yeah and that's a ways out to kubuntu for this man yeah that's a ways out switching to kubuntu because i know that i know that they have decent high DPI support, so I'm thinking of going to Kubuntu instead. Well, I'll tell you this, Ben, is if you try it out, you're not going to go back.

That's what's going to happen. You won't go back once you try it. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of doing. It's downloading Kubuntu 18.04 and just chucking that on there instead. Yeah, you're going to like it. Yeah, that's my plan. Yeah, people tweeted last week or the week before and said, hey, how come you guys didn't talk about the Plasma update? there instead. You're going to like it. That's my plan. People tweeted the week before and said,

how come you guys didn't talk about the Plasma update? It's just sort of now we're there. We're there, we're using it, and we're not switching. And it's stuck. And I really, really like it. It is the new normal. I'm going to transition from that, and I'm going to mention why I'm on the road, just because people probably already know, but just in case, it's your last chance. Scale 16x, the 16th annual Southern California Linux Expo. It's going on at the

Pasadena Convention Center, March 8th through the 11th, so it's starting in just a couple of days. I will be in the Pomona area Wednesday evening, and Wes, it's funny, when I get into California, because, you know, I've got the live tracker going at the at the jupiter broadcast I was gonna ask that's perfect we can all creepily follow along well people do and I totally encourage it is great because what happens is as soon as I get into California uh it it's New York California and Salt Lake City when I'm in either one of those areas it goes goes from like, yeah, let's go out and get a bite to eat.

Yeah, that sounds cool. We'll meet up and get a bite to eat. And it goes from, well, okay, we got a big group, so we're going to have to go do a meetup. Where can we go where we can fit like seven people? It's just way more people because everybody's so densely packed in here in New York and in California and apparently Salt Lake City. And so I may potentially be going out to dinner with five different listeners. That's incredible.

I know. After driving like a madman, we got on the road before sunrise, before 6 a.m., and drove, drove, drove, drove to get here so that way we could sit and park somewhere and do the show. And I've just been getting telegrams and tweets. It's great. And I've already got listener Jeff on the way to meet up after we get off the air with Unplugged here at the RV. Oh, wow. So do you think you're ready? I mean, scale starts on Thursday. Is that right?

Pumped. Yeah, I'm pumped and pumped. I also heard from listener Ryan, a tech guy who a couple of years ago helped us out by letting us borrow his Cadillac when we got into Pomona because it's about 45 minutes between Pomona and Pasadena, which is Pasadena is where scale's at. And so Ryan's like, well, you're not planning to drive your RV in there, are you? And we're like, no. He's like, I don't think you realize how expensive that's going to be on Uber. Why don't you borrow my car? And we're like, OK. Whoa.

OK. you borrow my car and we're like okay whoa okay and so he shows up and it's a cadillac and which i just have an affection for because uh my grandparents always had cadillacs and so it was you know it's pretty great so ryan reached out to me again this year and said hey you need another ride i could i could meet you thursday morning and bring you into scale so uh yeah ryan and i are going to be meeting back up again and riding the Cadillac into town and going to scale Thursday morning. I think Noah's going to arrive in town like Thursday evening. So I'll be there in the morning to get like the beginning, do the meet and greets with, with folks and meet a few people, get some interviews lined up, all that kind of stuff. And, uh, I don't know, it just go, you know, this is the scale. So Scale was talking to us,

and they're like, so do you want the booth? And we're like, nope, we don't want the booth. You don't want a booth? Nope. But how are you going to do a live show? We're like, well, maybe you could give us a room somewhere that's quiet?

What? We're like, yeah, that's how we want to do it this year. No booth. Totally different. We're just going to go enjoy ourselves and really try to get a sense of where linux is going in 2018 because you got a lot of good projects there

a lot of different industry representation that's one of the reasons i'm taking all this effort to go to scales because it's like the biggest event in the states um and so i wish it was linux fest northwest which because that's up there that's a big one but it's not as big as scale and um in fact the folks from linux fest northwest usually go to scale to represent and so i got to go to scale if i want to go to like the big big community event the big community you know it's another it's another side of the community there's different people that can make it there so i'm sure it's a lot of fun. Yeah, I'm so, so, so looking forward to it. I'm trying to document bits of the journey too, as we go down in Tech Talk today. I just published episode 264, Parking Lot Podcaster,

yesterday, and kind of captured the first bit of the trail and the trek down here. TechTalk.today is where you can go to get that. And if you want to track me live as I'm making my way down to scale, Jupiter broadcasting.com slash Rover. That tracker is in the RV, not in, not on me. So people like people show up at the RV and they're like awkward about it. And they're like hanging out around the RV and I'm not there.

I'm not there. It's not on me. Like you can get to the RV by watching that, but you got to telegram me or tweet me to actually find where I'm at. But if it's during scale. Oh, so you move around outside of Lady Jupes? Turns out I leave Lady Jupes. Yeah, I know.

People have asked me, well, could you just put the tracker in your pocket? And I feel like that's the line where that's too far. That's too far. It's like, no, it's installed in Lady Jupes. I've considered it. When we were in New York for a short period of time, we did remove it from Lady Jube's and we installed it into Dia's car. But, yeah. Well, I love this app that you found, Wes.

It's like Salvation for Slack users. Not that anybody ever uses Slack. No, certainly not. I wouldn't. Nobody on this show, nobody in the mumble room uses Slack, nobody in the IRC or Discord, nobody listening ever uses it. We only use what matters most. Yeah, and there is some. There is definitely some of that.

I use Slack at work. Do you? Yeah. Is it pretty entrenched into the workflow? work. Do you? Yeah. Is it pretty entrenched into the workflow? Actually, yes, because we use it for most of our communication, especially in my department when we're away from each other or inter-campus, that kind of thing. Yeah. And I know, Wes, I know you use it with the network, but you also have a day job use for it too. So you're pretty heavy into Slack just for work reasons, right? Yep. Definitely. It's on all my devices just for that, if not also the network.

You're absolutely right. So I want to try to find different ways to use Slack that are quick and easy and low bandwidth. And so that's why I love this app that you found, Wes. It's Slack Term, which is a Slack client for your terminal. is Slack Term, which is a Slack client for your terminal. And it's simple. Install away. And you just download a binary for your system and run it.

I think it's written in Go, yeah? Did you take a look? I think it's a Go app. Let's take a look here. And it's got a whole set of keyboard commands. Yeah, it's written in Go. So you get a nice static binary you can run. And it really is, I mean, if you just look at the interface, it's pretty minimal. I like that it may not have all the features that you want.

But if you just want to be able to reply quickly, not jump out of your terminal, this might be the thing for you. I love the idea of SSH sessions running with certain applications just omnipresent. I don't know. I do it rarely. And then I just, it all falls apart. And I stop using all of it. And then I build things back up over time, like torrent clients and SSH and I mean, IRC and things like that. And then I, and then I'd sort of tear it all down, depending on my use case. So, but like a team where you could, you could stick this in there and just come back to it anytime you needed it. Or I've done X2Go as well, which is also really nice, and just have it up in an X session. But anyways, this is sort of like a low bandwidth way to take care of Slack.

But the point I was getting at here is you can build a set of tools like this. So what I had set up was an X2Go session on a DigitalOcean droplet that was just always running. It's still running right now, which is great because I'm on a MiFi connection. So maybe something really big and intensive comes up. The MiFi connection is fast enough to do an X2Go session. And that's secured over SSH, right? And so then I'm working on a machine that's on a DigitalOcean droplet that has a 40 gigabit connection, digitalo.com go over there and create your account and use our promo code do unplugged and i for a limited time depends on engagement there's a great deal uh and west do you have the paper there there's a there's like a there's like a url it's like do.co

slash unplugged i think oh there's like take a look here. Somewhere on the table there. Dio.co slash unplugged. Okay, now here's why I wanted to make sure he got that. Because that's the email where DigitalOcean is informing us that for a limited... Yeah, that is great. Nice. That sounds good, Wes. It's a limited time $100 credit for your DigitalOcean account if you're a new customer.

Wow. Because, honestly, the $10 credit is more than enough because you could run the $10 credit. Pretty great, yeah. Yeah. So $100 credit, that's insane. And the reason is because they've got new systems. They've got mix-and-match droplets where you can mix and match the different resources that you need for your application. They've really improved the competitive pricing on their standard droplets, too.

Basically, all my rigs just got an upgrade. My three cents an hour rig is just unstoppable. You didn't do anything and now they're better. And you were there. Weren't you there? We did it live. It was beautiful. Yeah, we were doing something for TechSnap. We were doing an experiment. This is a great use case that we do with DigitalOcean all the

time is Wes and I were about to talk about something on TechSnap and we had a question functionally about how it worked, and we wanted to be able to speak from a position of experience, so we spun up a droplet. In this case, it was a droplet that I already had some of the tools installed on, so I upgraded the droplet, installed the applications I needed within seconds, and within 10 minutes total,

we had run through different scenarios, we had tested the application, and we were able to incorporate that into our notes for the TexNet program. And it's that kind of flexibility when you're trying something out, when you want to learn something, or when it's just time to build something and put it in production. There's all kinds of great uses for DigitalOcean. Go over there. They have great documentation. do.co.unplugged. Sim simplicity at scale and unbelievably easy to use interface that's why companies like slack and tesla and jupiter broadcasting and many many others and lots of open source projects use digital ocean do dot co slash unplugged and go check out their documentation

as well thank you digital ocean for sponsoring theged program. So let's talk about Java just for a moment, because I don't know what the hell's going on here. Oracle has handed over Java Enterprise Edition to the Eclipse Foundation. And now that the Eclipse Foundation has taken over Java Enterprise, they're renaming it to Jakarta. And they're dropping the Java trademark stuff. There's no Java trademarks now. They're naming it to Jakarta, and they're dropping the Java trademark stuff. There's no Java trademarks now. They're calling the new Java enterprise Jakarta, and it's under the guise of the Eclipse Foundation. Did all those words I just said make sense to you? I think so at a high level.

They barely did. Yeah. But I'm still not clear. Will Oracle still be publishing their own version? Will people start actually calling it Jakarta? What's actually happening here? So I think it is a handover. And the thing that screwed me up is that Jakarta isn't a new name.

name. The Apache Foundation used the name Jakarta, which was their open source Java efforts in the late 90s, till kind of like till recently, like till, well, at least till 2011. So it's really, that was an Apache thing. So then this thing comes along, and it's really confusing. But my understanding is, is that essentially, it's a group of Java experts, including the Java creator, James Galsling, and others that wrote Oracle and said, hand it over to us. And they wrote a long list of reasons. And I think Oracle has complied. This is all news to me. And I barely, barely care.

But it seems like we may have a new product on the market called Jakarta EE, which is Java, but now under the Eclipse Foundation. So that's my takeaway story from this. Is that thick or what? Yeah, I mean, of course it is. We're talking about Oracle here. And so there's obviously going to be a lot of details that have to be argued over and then lawyers involved. Is there any chance somebody in the mumble room has a better breakdown of the story they perhaps could summon some bit of courage to actually care a bit more than i could i just no nobody okay well we'll get the well actually email and they'll set us straight i'm sure they'll tell that's why we love you audience now mr foray couldn't join

us today and it's my bad because i believe he's in my neck of the woods right now. So I should have caught a hold of him and said, why don't you come over to Lady Juice? Oh, that would have been amazing. Yeah, I could have shared this pineapple cider with him, which is prickly pineapple. Prickly pineapple. Say that ten times fast. And he could have told us about juno which they're now actually starting the hype machine on and they don't talk a lot about their future releases but we're starting

to see some updates and there is a couple of things that jumped out at me number one besides just an overall refinement to almost all aspects of the user interface and the photos app and the terminal but they have a new nightlight function. Nightlight? Yeah, you probably can guess what that is. It's a nightlight tab under the new display settings area. There's a new function there. And you can set the temperature and the schedule, and then there's a really nice drop-down indicator

where you can set there and adjust the shade from a drop-down indicator. They just really... I don't know if you've seen the screenshot of this, Wes, but they've really done a good job of taking a feature that I rely a lot on. This nightshade feature, combined with dark user interfaces,

is sort of my trick to using my computer late at night. Sometimes, I just don't sleep. And what happens is... Don't tell her I said this, but I go to bed and I get a real good sleep going. You know what I mean? Like a solid sleep. Oh, yeah. I'm out.

And then Hedia, like, comes to bed or gets up and does something or the kids or the dog wakes me up like 20 minutes into this nice sleep. And I never fall back asleep for the rest or the dog wakes me up like 20 minutes into this nice sleep, and I never fall back asleep for the rest of the night. And so what I have learned is after about an hour or so, maybe two hours, I just give up and I go work. You might as well get something done instead of restlessly sitting there. I'm cracking open that XPS 13 in the middle of the night. Sometimes it's like 2 a.m. or whatever when I've finally given up. And if Redshift isn't kicked in just right or whatever,

it's a blast of blue light that almost guarantees I'll never go back to bed. And this functionality sometimes can be too much when I'm editing and I need to turn this down or turn it off. And so it's really just a slick implementation they've done. There's all kinds of things. I really like the work they've done with the terminal, too.

It's those little tweaks that often, I think, set elementary apart. Just in that, you know, for you and I, it's not a problem. We can install any of the tools that exist to do similar things. But to just have it right in the OS that you've installed that came on your computer, have it be a first class in the UI and in the settings menu, that makes a big difference. I think especially people coming from Mac or other fancier platforms. Yeah, I almost wish I wasn't all in on Plasma now. Right?

It's looking so good. But the Plasma hypebeast has me hard right now. There's just no way. You know, once it's out, I won't blame you if you want to flirt around for a while. That's okay. You know, what we need is somebody in the Mumble Room to be like a third-party arbiter, because Dan's going to say it's great if he shows up, and I'm not trying to right now because I'm all in on Plasma, so we need somebody from the Mumble Room to step up and be our elementary OS

ambassador and try this out and let us know how it's going and be like our 1804 on-the-scene reporter. It could be you. It could be, so if you want to do that. It could be. So if you want to do that, let us know. Go to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash contact or hang out in our Mumble room,

mumble.jupitercolony.org for info on that and be part of the virtual log because it's going every Tuesday. We do this show at, we try to start around somewhere in like the 1.30 to 2 o'clock time range Pacific and then we go until Noah's done with Ask Noah. So it's a good time to hang out. A wonderful afternoon of Linux.

Heck yeah. Jupyterbroadcasting.com slash calendar for the lifetime for that. There you go. So if you want to see Daniel's post on that, they have an update for the last couple of months. And it's looking really good. It's looking like they're really putting some serious work into that. You can go check that out. There's all of of our links jupiterbroadcasting.com go over there and then find uh the episode this is episode 239 and you'll have links to everything

in there i don't know mr wes what do you think do you think oh you know what i was going to mention too is i'm going to try to uh well you know what i'll save it. Oh, you are a tease today. We'll tease it. Actually, okay. Let's get into this. Let's do this. So just really quickly, earlier in the show, you know, we talked about Jeff Bezos' clock. And Microsoft making a Hyper-V friendly version of Ubuntu. Also Kali Linux coming in to the subsystem.

I went down to Microsoft. I had some interesting conversations with them. Also, Kali Linux coming in to the subsystem. I went down to Microsoft. I had some interesting conversations with them. It's almost quaint now to just kind of like, what's Microsoft doing with open source? But there's something I actually want to – I kind of want to talk about in this area. And the topic that Tech Republic ran with was what Microsoft understands about open source that your company doesn't. And it's an interesting post. So I want to talk about that for a moment. But before we do, let's thank Linux Academy, linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Thank you, Linux Academy,

for sponsoring the show. It's a platform for you guys to go to, to learn more, to get more out of your career, to maybe advance it, or to just challenge yourself, whatever you think might help build the resume. It's a full-featured training library with everything you need to learn new skills. Self-paced, in-depth video course on every cloud and DevOps topic. Hands-on, scenario-based labs that give you experience on real servers. And if you ever need help, they have full-time instructors that are there to advise and answer your questions. And they have Learning Paths, which are a series of courses and contents planned by instructors for specific career tracks. If

you're ready to either switch track or go deeper, I really recommend that. And now a lot of you ask about certifications. And yes, they have courses created specifically to prepare you for certification exams. They also have practice exams and quizzes to prepare you. They have flashcards, which use custom randomized decks of cards to help you study. They get forked by the community and made better all of the time. They have iOS and Android apps so you can study on the go. And they have a deep content library. Then they have staff that are adding to that and also going back and keeping it relevant all the time. So that way your subscription is always valuable.

And if you're ready to learn AWS or OpenStack or even Azure, they have great courseware and all of that. They're really becoming the leader with all of that stuff. LinuxAcademy.com slash unplugged. Go there and sign up for a free seven-day trial. LinuxAcademy.com slash unplugged. And a big thank you to Linux Academy for sponsoring the Unplugged program. So the sub-headline is,

Microsoft understands that its future depends upon contributing to open source, not just using it. And your company needs the same strategy. And when I was talking with Jeffrey, the technology fellow at Microsoft from the Azure group, right? He,

he talked about, well, actually, let me reframe this. I told him the reason why it's hard for us to understand what Microsoft's overall strategy is is because from the outside, we just see these big code drops. So.NET Core, boom, code drop. Visual Studio Code, boom, just code drop. And then all of a sudden powershell core boom code drop and it just looks like this um sporadic like now we're doing this

is open source because developers and now we're doing this is open source because developers right and it feels like it's an attempt to just take a take a shotgun shotgun approach to solving a problem. But what I realized, which is obvious, if you have any kind of insight inside a company, what I realized is these are the manifestations of three or four year long processes. Like Joey, who was in some of our interviews a couple of weeks ago, he was hired like four years ago to help specifically begin the snowball effect of this process, which involved training the team on using Git, which involved getting people on Mac and Linux, which quite frankly involved firing people who weren't on board with the new program and were always Windows first. And it was this realignment that they have been doing internally to not just make money off of open source, which is what they're doing,

but the way they're making money off open source is by trying to contribute to open source and get legitimate – I don't know if standing is the right word. So I'll give you an example of where I'm going with this. They talked at length internally about how the open source community would react to them open sourcing PowerShell. the open source community would react to them open sourcing PowerShell and what they could do to sort of appease that reaction to sort of address some of those concerns and they specifically had to jump into action when the developer of curl was one of the first people to submit a bug and it was hey you've got to remove your alias of curl so people can actually use real curl. And then they have this big conversation, like, okay, now we've got to make sure we're responding.

This is what we're doing now. Let's get everybody in here. And it wasn't just like our PR department's doing this now, our developers are working internally. It was the people actually touching the code had to get involved. And there was some sort of shift that they had, some sort of mind shift that they had. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was perhaps just watching how Red Hat does it and figuring out how Red Hat's making money and going, well, geez, they're actually contributing code upstream. They're actually writing that stuff for their competitors to use, and they're still making money on it.

And they're being taken serious, and they're they're considered legitimate well maybe we should do that so it's not like there wasn't somebody out there for them to look at but they but they actually got it and so what we're seeing today is sometimes something that's been in the works for four or five years now that they're just getting around to dropping on us. And so the key point that this Tech Republic article makes is if you actually want to be taken serious at a platform level or at a tool level, you've actually got to go all in. It can't just be like the PR division or a part of it. And I kind of take some of this and I kind of direct some of this at Dell right now.

Like Dell is pretty all in on Linux on the server side and on the Sputnik line but you know it feels like there's more they could do. They do contribute source code upstream but I feel like there's more that like there's further steps

for Dell to take and I don't know exactly what they would be I mean they still will definitely still quote unquote recommend Windows 10 for the laptop that they're trying to sell you. Yeah, yeah. And I guess that's understandable for business reasons. No, it absolutely is. But there's a lot of conflicting feelings.

You're not quite sure, like, well, how invested in this are you? So you and I talk about, on TechSnap, a lot of tools that people can use to manage their server infrastructure and their crazy container sprawl and all that stuff. And can you think of any of those tools that are really serious? Like what are the big ones in that space that are completely commercial, where they don't have like a like half the tools open source? Like what it like is Ansible all open source what's the you know they're the ansible tower component didn't used to be but it is now um it really has been the trend there still are you know some like enterprise focused proprietary systems for monitoring and configuration management

but they're definitely not the things that you end up seeing at big tech companies or a lot of startups or you know maybe if you've been paying for them for 20 years and it's part of your workflow sure but it's not it's not where the momentum is. The only thing I could think of that's server-based is web server cPanel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking cPanel is definitely something that's more consumer-facing, but yeah. Is cPanel still strong? Is it used much?

Yeah, it's one of the top ones. Still, huh? Ugh, what an nightmare. And in of the top ones. Still, huh? Ugh. What a nightmare. And Plask. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wes, when's the last time you've used cPanel or Plask? Thankfully, quite some time.

But I definitely have friends, you know, or people in unfortunate situations. And you're right. They're still, they're definitely still out there. Yeah. Yeah. It seems, though, like if you want to be like a legitimate platform player, you have to open source. I mean, look at Apple with Swift. You had to open source Swift to be taken seriously anymore.

I think that's a pretty big statement right there. And Apple is an example of a company who's like half in with open source. They obviously use a lot of it, a lot of the BSD tools, CUPS. A lot of that stuff is open source in the development chain. Even Darwin itself is open source, but it feels like that's more of an open source out of convenience, where there is a different type of commitment level to open source coming out of Microsoft now. And you can be listening to this and be skeptical and say, oh, Chris has bought into the Kool-Aid. But I went down there and I talked to the people and they said the things that you say when you're legitimately trying hard and you're a large company. And I think that that formula that they've cracked is going to be one that other companies are either going to have to try to copy or they're going to be just perceived as disingenuous.

copy or they're going to be just perceived as disingenuous yeah i mean it's like a legitimate it feels like almost like um you almost have to assess it from that perspective in terms of open source is just what you have to do now so even if you don't trust microsoft still don't like microsoft whatever they're smart enough savvy enough at least it appears that even if they didn't genuinely believe these things they're willing to do so just in their own interest you know what's going to be you know what's going to be weird is to see where Google goes in the next few years with open source, because they've got Project Fuchsia. They've got Android One that's a little bit different of a thing. And there's also today, there is news that Google has unveiled a 72 qubit Bristol Cone processor,

which they say brings them to quantum supremacy in the quantum computing race. Now, we're not talking like they're cracking Bitcoin crypto codes yet, but that is going to be a really interesting thing to see where this all goes with Google and where they still continue to contribute to open source and where they become more Apple to try to stay competitive with Android. You know, that line that they walk. Very much so.

And it's funny you mentioned that because just the other week, too, Microsoft released their quantum development kit, including support for Linux. So they're all playing in these spaces. I think it will matter, like, how genuine do they believe it? Is it a Google style kind of, it is open source, but all the good stuff gets put proprietary? Or will it really be first class open source? That seems to be the way it's going to it's like these big centralized obviously, because of just the cooling requirements and all this crazy stuff when they build these quantum computers. IBM's doing that too. Did you see that there? There's like some IBM center down in Texas. If you're a local, you can go use IBM's quantum computer.

Yeah, and then they have an API you can use over the web as well. Really? Yep. Oh, my gosh. Well, there you go, Wes. Maybe we could encode some podcasts on there. Let's give it a shot. I don't think so.

No, I don't think so either. No, I don't think so. All right, if you want to contribute something to the show, go to linuxunplugged.reddit.com That is our subreddit, linuxunplugged.reddit.com. Yes, we have a subreddit. We don't mention it very often, but it's over there. Subreddit, I'm not

big on Reddit these days, so I just shut down our Jupyter Broadcasting subreddit. Because I was in there and I was like, this is a fuck... I shouldn't swear, but this is a dumpster fire is what my thoughts were. But the unplugged subreddit because i was in there and i was like this is a fuck and this is i shouldn't swear but this is a dumpster fire is what my thoughts were uh and uh but the unplugged subreddit still seems to be chugging along just fine and uh there is a post in there that was submitted an hour ago by mr motang about skype bragging that uh their maintenance updates, it could be easier because of snaps. Now,

there is, I think there's also the possibility that we could see more things coming down this channel. I don't know how much I can say. I don't think I can actually say what I know, but do you remember It does seem like there's some momentum behind the scenes that we aren't, I don't get to be privileged to, but just

quiet releases of things, that's got to be building. Well, see, here's like, I'll tell you, there's a capability when you have a confined application and you ship with its own libraries. If it's using, if the application is typically doing something wrong, there might be a way via packaging to solve it.

So say you had an application like Skype that was broken into two pieces. You had an Electron version of Skype, and then inside Skype, you still had like a C plus application to do like all of the voice calls that actually was the voice engine. Let's say this is theoretically, new Skype is set up. Well, new Skype uses Electron wrapper for like the chat and all of that and of course because it's new skype that's using pulse audio but core skype that's like embedded in that electron app that's doing all of the management for the voice calls that's still using also fun okay i totally believe that that would happen in this theoretical linux universe exactly and it's possible that perhaps one is communicating at also with with

one rate and it's communicating and then the the electron app's communicating to pulso with a completely different rate you see what i'm saying i can't i mean i don't i certainly can't hear what you're saying because that sounds like a audio clusterfuck sorry talk yeah i wouldn't uh are you talking about sample rate or yeah yeah we might be we might be, are you talking about sample rate? Yeah, we might be. We might be talking about sample rate, not bit rate. That might be what we're talking about. We might be talking like 44 hertz versus 48 hertz. You know what I'm saying? That kind of thing.

Perhaps the Electron app is at 44 hertz, and perhaps the C++ or the C++ apps at 48. Who knows? I'm just spitballing here. And via packaging, you might be able to have some libraries in there that solve this problem and fix this problem for the vendor that doesn't require them doing a complete rewrite of their application.

And so that vendor may be very excited about the packaging format because of the possibilities of solving problems for them on the Linux platform. That could be potentially what we're dealing with here, but I don't know. I'm just speculating. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I could see a sample rate mismatch, but not so much a bit rate mismatch, because that would just make compression sound weird. A sample rate mismatch would actually speed up or slow down the audio.

Yeah, Hadea just got back from the Capitol with Levi. Levi, welcome in, little buddy. Yeah, Levi is now here. Come here, Levi, come here. Come say hi to the Unplugged program. Come here, come up here. Come here. Come here.

So, yeah, he's nice and warm. Here, lick the microphone for me. There you go. Yeah, he likes to sit up here and look out the window. But how was that? Was that good? Yeah? Is it warm? Yeah, it looks pretty pretty warm out there i'm getting pretty warm in here did you just turn on the air okay nice yeah all right well so uh mr west i have just a couple of parting bits to talk about before we get out of here let us in on your secret do you have

do you have any secrets you want to share with people maybe like a twitter place they could check out something like that find me Find me over at Wes Payne. Very good. You can follow me at ChrisLAS. And why not check out the Instagram? I'll post a few pictures. Yes, I said it. Do it. Instagram. Yeah, I'm InstaChrisLass. As long as there's Levi pictures, I will be there.

You know what? I'll make sure I put a Levi picture up there just for you. Okay. Just for you. I'm InstaChrisLass on there. I'll be posting some pictures on the road to scale. Tech talk dot today for the story as we get to scale. And if you're in the Pasadena area, let me know at Chris LAS on the Twitter or on the telegrams. I'd love to talk to you guys and Jupiter broadcasting.com slash calendar for

our lifetime. Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of unplugged and we'll see you right back here next week. All right. Well, now we just got to pick a title, and then we're out of here. Let's get the titles on, everyone. Noah may be stopping in in a little bit, too.

Noah that dog. I know, right? I know. BoomJBTitles.com. Go get your vote heard right now. The only election that matters. JBTitles. I shall be back after getting the kid.

We'll just put Quantum in there a whole bunch. That's probably what we want. We were, you know, we have, it's funny. You funny you notice how like the mumble room attendance is pretty decent today but it could be double this some weeks you know and it just sort of ebbs and flows it really does we should get some graphs on that that would be really interesting on twitter check out the uh trends in the u.s player one trending, and it seems to be all retro movie titles and or retro characters being subbed

in with Ready Player One. Oh, really? When's Ready Player One coming out? I'm ready. My body is ready. My booty is ready. Alright, Wes, I'm going to find a levi picture for you right now

how about uh we call here's one that we call levi the kopi levi the kopi he's so cute now he's's been to California. Look at that. He may have before because he's from Texas. You just can't say. We parked somewhere where the people parked next to us. They had a rescue dog from Texas too. Nice. Did they get along well? They did.

You know Levi. Yeah. He just wants to be everyone's friend. There's ain't nobody Levi don't get along with. Know what I mean? Yeah, right. And if Yeah, there ain't nobody Levi don't get along with, know what I mean? Yeah, right. And if so, I don't trust that person. They've clearly done something wrong.

It'll release on the 29th of March. Oh, man, that's forever. That is forever, dude. Eh, could be worth the wait plus it I think Spielberg is directing there you go Wes just for you posted Levi the co-pilot oh

boom alright so we gotta name this thing Oh. Boom. All right, so we've got to name this thing. This is going to be a weird post-show. Yeah, this is a weird post-show. But that's just what happens sometimes, you know? Yeah, it is. It's a weird week because it's a low mumble attendance.

It's kind of a light news week. Everyone's too excited about scale. How are you going to... And, yeah, yeah. And also is put kind of put together at the last minute because you know road trip well you're not supposed to reveal that part okay all right scaling unplugged remote access unplugged unplugged on the road show. What about Jeff's Clock or something like that? Or Cleaning Jeff's Clock? Cleaning Jeff's Clock, huh? Millennium Linux.

The Microsoft Strategy. The Microsoft Strategy. We had two stories at least uh the microsoft uh the microsoft millennium the microsoft uh oh microsoft's millennium the uh let's see really what you got here is you know oh you know i was gonna go with you know what i forgot to you know what i forgot to put in the in there was where i was gonna go is both microsoft and amazon are really powerfully positioned to just dominate for a couple of years. And Amazon more so, I think.

And I wanted to kind of work that into the segment because that's kind of where this is headed. It just didn't work. There's too much going on. I don't know. We didn't get there. But that's where this is all going is Amazon is going to become like the titan of our industry because look at – they already run the internet with EC2. They're going to turn our own homes into stores with Ring Video Doorbell and the Echo devices and the security products they're about to launch and then home delivery of prescriptions. They're going to just own our home completely.

They're going to have home products they're about to launch and then home delivery of prescriptions. They're going to just own our home completely. With the Echo Tubes and Dash Buttons and all these other things, they don't need a store because your house is the store. And then they have Amazon.com. And then they're going to have their media section with the Prime stuff, the Prime video stuff. And they're opening up another headquarters. So do you feel like a little pond being bounced back and forth between three big tech companies kind of deciding what your life is like? Also, did you guys mention about the gaming service that they just bought? No.

Nope. They just bought a game streaming service. So the future is theirs. The future is Microsoft's. Where can we go with a title from this? Microsoft's Millennium? The Next Microsoft Millennium?

The Next Microsoft Decade? Yeah. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not allowing any Amazon Echoes into my residence. The next Microsoft... It's kind of long. People just think it's about Microsoft.

Yeah, right. The future is open source? Hmm. That's closer. That's not bad. open source no uh hmm that's closer that's not bad it's not great it's kind of generic

but that's probably more in the direction um open source millennium by the way can we check the IRC

discord poll oh yeah yeah uh yeah it is it's in the it's in the show notes from two weeks ago if you want to check it while we while we tile it up uh there you go levi the co-pilot picture posted just for you wes boom yep look at that it's beautiful got it up here on the stream isn't he a dog oh yeah that is a dog he looks kind of sleepy yeah he he does get very sleepy you're on the road a long day

traveling it takes it out of a little pup it does poor little guy oh gosh he's so cute with his little sweater too he probably hardly needs it in your warm california air yeah it's off now that was earlier this morning when it was up in the 20s. Okay, so what else have we got here? Anything new? Unplugged on the road. I've been unplugged everywhere.

Hashtag rotten was right. That's great. Plasma millennium. Well, we only really talked about plasma. It's just as the check-in. Let's see here. Okay, looks like IRC is winning over Discord with 77%. Yeah.

Yeah, that is nice. I think 77 is down from 79 from last chat, correct? Oh, it is, huh? Well, there you go. Morty, just use an external USB sound card. Don't use the sound card built into your laptop.

Yeah. For his... So, okay. Something about Jakarta? No. Selling out for open source? Oh. That's kind of...

That's actually not bad. Yeah? You like selling out? It's kind of nuanced that's actually not bad. Yeah? It's kind of nuanced. There could be multiple interpretations. It's got open source in there. Doesn't say Microsoft, but it's obviously what we're talking about. Huh. I kind of like it.

I like it, too. You're making me like it. You're making me like it, Wes. I could live with that. All right. Okay. Maybe we'll do that. me like it, Wes. I could live with that.

Alright, okay. Maybe we'll do that. Are they selling out? I mean... Who are we talking about? We may be talking about Apple. I don't know. Oracle.

Yeah, that's who we're talking about. I like that. I don't know. Dumpster fire. If I had better connections at Microsoft and more time, I would be tempted to go to Build this year and see how much they're talking about open

source at Build. Because that's their big developer conference. Speaking of Microsoft connections, did you get a contact with anybody significant yet? Well, what do you mean? Because I sent your email over to the contact I have

who's a co-host of Twight who's a Microsoft development head of the graph. Oh, Lou? No, but I've been talking to other people. Yeah, I've been talking to other people. Yeah, Lou would be talking to other people. Yeah. Lou would be a good perspective to have on the show with regards to the Microsoft Graph. And he runs Linux on occasion.

How dare he? How dare he? That's insane. Well, I mean, it is open now with Satya Nadella. No, we're just teasing. We're just teasing. Sorry. Sometimes I don't get that sense of humor.

Oh, there he is. There he is. The moment we've all been waiting for. Welcome. Hallelujah. Hi there, guys. You sound better today. Hooray.

Did I sound bad before? I don't know how to do that. There was a week ago or something. There was that one live stream where your audio was just a garbage. We had to bail on the post show because it was so bad. Yeah.

It was last week. Yeah, that was... To be fair, that was my studio audio. I was on my laptop or something like that. It's not my fault. It's not my fault. I love you now. I wouldn't go that far.

It was my fault. It's just, you know, you know. So you're in your regular old Gram Forks studio, you know, just old, boring studio that's been custom built for you. Just old, boring. Well, actually, so I don't know how, I know you get excited more on the studio side of things than the transmitter side, but we got a new transmitter. And it's a transmitter made for Chris.

Chris. Oh, yeah? Yeah, the whole thing is a web UI. So you log in and you can set the power and you can turn it on and off. It's got so many bells and whistles on the stupid thing. I get emails from my transmitter now telling me your audio is a little bit low and it's not modulating quite as much and it's not

quite as loud as the is this station that i'm listening to and so you might want it's crazy oh it's like like what do you mean what do you mean like it like the software emails you like it's not a human no yeah it's it's actually it's a little arm computer that's inside of that process it's inside of that transmitter and uh monitors for a bunch of different things. When I show you the interface, even though you're not much of a – at least I don't think you get going over the RF side, you'd look at it and be like, man, that is cool. I don't even know what that is, but I want to play with it. Oh, that's a strong selling point. Yeah, I could see that.

I could totally see that. So what's coming up on the show today? Oh, we are doing some really exciting things. We are talking today about all of the tools and software packages and stuff that people self-host on their home servers, on their business servers, and how those tools work, what the best ones ones are what are ones that you might want to stay away from and uh if you don't want to host them yourself what are some of the alternatives you can go to to get some to just pay somebody to host that stuff there is a managed provider that provides that yeah yeah i i've been wanting to do a home server hoedown on the unplug program for a few weeks that's that's i think i love i love that topic something you know you can self-host or not it's exploding in the industry which is why it's so

interesting to me whoa really really yeah i you know i get monthly sales reports of where we make the most amount of our money and this month the only the one thing that i can say has that brought in the most money if i was to categorize something it is maintenance support or installation of self-hosted services good i know i know good that's also good long term too for you yeah yeah it really is yeah because you know there there are some trends in the it industry that they got me worried sometimes yeah yeah well i'm glad to hear it i'm looking forward to it uh now uh what else uh come on what else we should get us excited here this is your space give us a tease oh well uh here's the thing i i can only go so far with but before oh you don't want to reveal live.tv and

and tune in but i'll give you i'll give you a little bit of a tease so uh have you have you played with c file yet is that maybe that that has to be you got me close you've you've got me close yeah we should do a little demo during linux fest i think the best way to sell you on c5 i think the way to do it knowing what i know about you i i feel like i so first I think I should make the disclaimer like I'm going to manipulate you. I think that's how I excuse myself from the manipulation I talked about. If I tell you, then you can't be like, oh, he's – no, I'm just being upfront. All right.

That'll be our system. I think the way to do it is to just offer it to you as if it is a hosted thing that you could just go sign up for. Oh, I see. Because you think that's what it takes for you. Offer it to you as if it is a hosted thing that you could just go sign up for. You know? Oh, oh, oh, I see. Because you think that's what it takes for you to provide and offer Chris a service to get him hooked. Yeah, go ahead. Now say, like, the thing that's going to trigger me. No, I think, well, really what I think it is, is if I were to put words to it, I think the words are,

Chris wants all the benefits of self-hosted stuff, but he doesn't necessarily have the time or the luxury of being able to have to figure that out unless it's something that he relies on. So I feel like if you're going to go all in and base your business off of it, no doubt you'd host it yourself. But I feel like for just like, I'm going to try this, not really sure, I feel like the way you do that is to say, here's a given instance, go play with it, see what you think, and then if it works, then you say, okay, now how do I move this on for myself?

I'm looking forward to that. I'm definitely willing to try it because honestly, you've really kind of sold me on it. Was it two weeks ago you did an episode on it? I can't remember. Three weeks now? And you were talking about it when we... And you were talking about it when we were in person, too.

And so that really kind of got me sold. Alright, I'll give it a go. I'll give it a go were in person, too. And so that really kind of got me sold. All right, I'll give it a go. I'll give it a go. You know, I'm not married to Dropbox. I think it's done pretty well, but it's expensive. And, you know, I would imagine things are going to be changing there now that they've filed for an IPO. Right.

Yeah, and the other thing is, too, when I look at the cost and I start saying, man, the amount of flexibility that you would have with this software thing over here and the amount of flexibility that you have that I know exists with Dropbox. And I'm like, I'm looking at some of this stuff and I'm like, man, from a production standpoint, for what you have to do with file syncing, it's just, I don't know. It's pretty amazing. Well, isn't the limitation of self-hosting servers – don't get me wrong. I love the idea as sort of a hacker mindset. But isn't the limitation if you need to access that from outside your network, you're limited by your upload speed connection? Yeah, of course.

But we have ways – we've partnered up with some managed hosted providers that we can get servers now for $25. Two terabyte, four terabyte storage arrays, you know, eight gigs of RAM and dedicated Xeons for $25 a month. Like, when you start getting to there and you can start putting those servers all over the U.S. And then you start hooking them together so that one talks to the other, and so that your data starts to basically set up your own little mini-CDN, you start getting to that point, and all of a sudden it's like, man, how is Dropbox going to compete with this?