LINUX Unplugged - Episode 41: Arch’s Uprising | LUP 41

Episode Date: May 21, 2014

Is this the year of Arch? We dig through the results from our listener home server survey, and compare our audience’s answers with another recent large survey, and find some surprising results.Plus how the “Power Linux User” is underrepresented by developer attention, and we share some Linux switching stories that go horribly wrong!

This is Linux Unplugged, Episode weekly Linux talk show that's digging through all of the, quote-unquote, big data. My name is Chris. My name is Matt. Hey, Matt. So this week by big data, I mean, we've got some results from the survey that we did last week in the Linux Unplugged show. We asked folks to chime in with their home server setups. And I had some basic, like, do you have this installed?

Do you have this installed? And then I left these fields for, like, leave some notes. And that's where there's some really interesting stuff. But I think some of the other things that stood out for me is the cloud versus home installation bias. We'll talk more about that. And then also just the massive amount of people that listed Arch as their home server distribution.

Interesting. Which is funny. I'm not surprised. We just did an episode on that, right? Yeah, we did. And I thought maybe I was going out on a limb, but it turns out I'm behind the trend. And we've also got the survey from RLinux, the Linux subreddit. They do like an annual survey.

And they've got a brand new one that just came out. It's actually getting to the size now where I think it's worth talking about. They had over 10,000 respondents from all different walks of life on the Linux subreddit. So we'll cover some of the results from that coming up in today's episode. But first I wanted to tease a couple of things. You know what, just a hint bomb I'm going to drop. I haven't showed you this to you, Max. I wanted to surprise you on the show. I don't know if you have the video stream up, but just a little hint. I do. We have a little hint now on the video stream of where things are going with HowToLinux. There is

Chase, Eric, and I down in downtown Seattle on the video stream of where things are going with HowToLinux. There is Chase, Eric, and I down in downtown Seattle at the beautiful Cary Park, which is like the most picturesque version of Seattle you have ever seen. It's gorgeous. So I won't say what we were doing, but there might have been some shenanigans happening yesterday. Some scenery, some selfies. We were kind of making asses of ourselves, to be honest with you, because it's a pretty Some scenery, some selfies. because for the most part, I mean, every now and then there was like some dog shenanigans going on and things like that and some dog fights. And sometimes like the reflector would fly away and go towards a crowd of people.

Or just goes off that whole ledge you got there. Yeah, that too. That was a possibility too. But it was fun. Gosh, it was a gorgeous day yesterday. It's a gorgeous day here today as well. But that's – so, yeah. I just tell you what, man. That was some as well. But that's, so yeah. Don't worry. I'll just tell you what, Matt.

That was some nice shooting. But that's not actually all this morning I wanted to talk about before we get rolling. I also have, see if you can guess, see I'll try to do it before you see the video version on the stream. See if you can guess what I have in my hot little hands by this audio tone. Can you guess what I have in my

hands? Something with Dell. No, that's the Intel sound, Matt. I'm not calling it Intel, that's not it. It's the Pentium sound. Yeah, it's the, yeah. I got the, we just got it in studio today, this morning, the Intel NUC D54250WYKH. Rolls right off the tongue.

That's a gorgeous piece of hardware. Yeah, so this is the... I wish I had my box to join you. This is the fatter NUC. Thiss right off the tongue. That's a gorgeous piece of hardware. Yeah, so this is the... I wish I had my box to join you. This is the fatter NUC. This is a big fat one. And the reason for that is it can take a standard size SSD, you know, a two and a half inch SSD, instead of that PCI little card that you have to use. And it's not that much bigger, to be honest with you.

It looks reasonable. Yeah, so we're going to have a little... this is going to be a little dedicated Skype machine so we can do some fancier Skype stuff here in JB1. And, you know, we were really kind of like, okay, how do we want to do this? What is the best way to accomplish what we want to do? And at the end of it, it was like because we already had the SSD on site, it really meant all in for a Core i5 rig with – I think it's, let me see, how much RAM did we get? I think we got 8 gigs or 16 gigs. I can't remember. 8 gigs, I think.

That's ample. More than better. It was like 400 bucks from Amazon. Yeah. 460 or something like that total. And it's just perfect for Skype. It's small. Rikai calls it the glue of the studio because now we've got – this is our second one, and I believe it.

It's just so much power in a little compact machine, and Linux is such a slam dunk on the NUC. It's just really easy because it's all Intel parts. How much do they cost? Well, that one is – $400. Yeah, like all set after we bought the RAM and everything was like $460 or $480, something like that. That sounds pretty good. It's an i5, right?

Yeah, that's an i5. Laptop i5. Yeah, but it has like the virtualization support stuff. No, it has all the stuff. It's just a really low undervolted underclocked processor. So you get really low TDP. You just don't get the most performance like you would if you went with a desktop i3. You would get the same feature set, just a little bit less performance.

But it can turbo up there sometimes if it's not overheating. Yeah, the one we've got now in production is usually around 1.8 gigahertz for each core, which for doing HD Skype is more than enough. It's really more than enough, so it's great. Or, you know, mumble or whatever. That's going to be essentially like another call-in box. That way we can take multiple Skype video calls and things like that. Essentially like the communication hub.

Yeah. And so having something that is low profile, quiet like that. And so eventually the other nice thing is we can essentially add more. I'm just, we'll just get a little shelf and put them on there. And they have HDMI directly out that goes into the capture machine. They have one audio out port. and then we use one of the USB ports to add a USB sound card, which we would do anyways. So they're pretty nice little

machines. The one that I'm showing the picture on the live stream is a NUC 2 and this is an Archbox running GNOME 3.12 and it's just great. It sometimes needs restarted. I've noticed that. Sometimes these NUCs need to be rebooted. I don't know what's up with that. I don't know if it's the Intel driver or what.

Have you updated the firmware? I don't know. I don't think so. Because they don't, or at least mine never came with updated firmware. So when I got it, I updated them. And it seems to be better after I've updated it. I might have. You know, the thing that we've noticed is the HDMI audio out after like about 24, 48 hours starts to get crackly.

Oh, see, I don't use the audio at all in mine, so I wouldn't know. So maybe that's why I haven't noticed. Oh, Rikai says he did update the firmware, yeah. Well, what's cool about it is, so they have an audio out jack, plus then we have the USB sound card so that we can like, you know, so audio comes in over USB or goes out depending on the setup. And then we also have an audio out over HDMI. And because it's the Intel Iris graphics, the driver works pretty much flawlessly.

So after your base install, and it makes an arch setup super simple. After your base install, you've got working HDMI mirroring with audio signal. So for us, that means one wire to the capture machine, and we can get the desktop picture and the sound from the machine without having to run any other wires, which leaves those other audio interfaces available for other things. So it's a great combination. I really am impressed with these boxes,

and I think, I wonder why Intel's the only one selling these, because it seems like people could be relabeling these. Maybe people are. Oh, I think Gigabyte does. Oh, I think like Gigabyte does. Oh, I would think so, yeah. Gigabyte uses a more powerful chip in the bricks. Yeah. And then you have that company that makes the orange box.

They also do a whole line of NIC things. Yeah, those guys. I forget what they're called. No, I'm not familiar. Apparently they have an i3 version that's only $299 or $289. Yes, yeah, they do. Yeah, I went with the higher processor just so that way we'd have a little more flexibility what we use it for. Right.

Because a lot of times – I'm just thinking for me, I'd maybe just get the cheap one. Yeah. You know, it would be great for like a visuals machine for BSD now because it's super small and it's just out of the way. And I went with the i5 because here in the studio I have found that every piece of gear ends up getting used for all kinds of different stuff that you would never expect it. And so I try to just sort of hedge my bets when I'm buying studio equipment, and I err on the side of more power. So that way when it ends up doing something I never planned for, it's capable for doing the job. But if you were like, this is always going to be email, web, you know, it's always going to do like maybe one VM, something like that.

You could go lower power, I think. Oh, yeah. I can think of so many uses for those boxes. So many. I think calling them the glue is a good description. I've seen some pushback on our coverage of the Ubuntu Orange box. People are like, there's a thread right

now in the subreddit. It's like, what's the actual use case for something like this? I think people undersell the NUC, and I think that's why, maybe because I've had so many good experiences with the NUC now. I started off feeling like it was a finicky device, and I still think there's some – I think it still has some esoteric rough edges. But I think it's going to revolutionize some production stuff, service side and this kind of stuff. Well, in my opinion on the NUC, the NUC is a great workstation.

It could be a great media center. But at the end of of the day it's not going to make a good data center you could actually have a whole portable data center with that ubuntu orange box yeah that's just what i'm seeing yeah i i mean there are so many companies that could use that yeah exactly for a data center there's something like the the super micro uh icloud it's's like 3Us and fits 10 i3s and it's probably more practical. Alan, what I'm talking about is basically people who want to build their own data center and don't have

that much space. Right, well 3Us is only like 3 pizza boxes. That's true. It's heavier and harder to carry around, whereas the Orange Box has those carry handles and stuff, so it's super portable in that case. You could take one of those half-use sleds

and put one in a case like the Orange Box. There were a bunch of places that used to do this with Mac Minis. I was just going to say that. Do that. I was just going to say the Mac Mini, they're still around. MacMiniColo.net. Because they haven't made the money back yet. There you go, Matt.

You send them a PowerPC Mac Mini and you could run. The power on those, I mean, because they weren't powerful, but they were real consistent. I don't know how to describe that better. Something about the PowerPC chip. Oh, the PowerPC chip was solid, yeah. I thought that was a great machine. I agree. And I couldn't bring myself to throw it chip. Oh, the PowerPC chip was solid, yeah. I thought that was a great machine. I agree. And I couldn't bring myself to throw it away. Yeah, yeah.

Why am I looking at buying a NUC right now? I'm supposed to be having dinner. Sorry, sorry. Well, here, let me tell you. I'll tell you about something else you should consider buying because it's mobile that makes sense, and that's our first sponsor this week. That is Ting.

Head over to linux.ting.com. Shout it proud, my friends, linux.ting.com. That tells them that you appreciate them supporting the Linux Unplugged podcast and that you're willing to take a couple of minutes and check out their service as a thank you for keeping us on the air. But here's why you'd want to go there. Once you're there, you'll be amazed at Ting because it's no contract mobile and you only pay for what you use.

It's a flat $6 per month, and then it's just taxes and your usage on top of that. So like in my case, I have two phones on my Ting account, and I end up paying a very, very low rate because both myself and Rikai, who's the other person on my account, are very smart about our data usage. We're primarily Wi-Fi users because we're pretty much either here at the studio or somewhere else that has Wi-Fi. And then, you know, of course when I'm driving I'm careful with that. That makes my monthly

bill with two phones generally, unless we have a big day where we have to tether or something like that for, you know, several days in a row when Comcast is totally biting the dust. Because that'll go up a little bit. But even in that scenario, it was like $44 for two smartphones. That's for a Nexus 5 and an HTC One.

And that's with everything. Picture messaging, hotspot tethering included with that plan is just your usage. They bill on the usage, not on the gimmick. And that's what makes Ting stand out. So go to linux.ting.com because that's going to take $25 off your first device. And they've got a whole new slew of devices, including the beautiful HTC One M8 that is unquestionably one of the best Android phones on the market now. One of the big improvements they made over the HTC One

is considerable battery improvements, which I think is awesome, and a little sleeker design, of course, and a few other things. They've got the Samsung Galaxy S5 as well. They have new mid-range and entry-level phones, and I was taking a look at the Moto X on Ting. Check this out. You buy this Moto X. If you go to linux.ting.com, it's going to cost you $356.

That's an unlocked phone that you own, that you're only paying for the usage. You're not in a contract. It's $356. That's not the cost where they're spreading it out over a two-year contract and gouge you. You pay it, and you're done. And then it's just what you use after that. For a Motorola X, and some folks say this is one of the best Android phones ever made. That's unbelievable. So go over to linux.ting.com and check out what they've got to offer and try out their savings calculator. Put your current bill in there and then check out the difference. And tell me you couldn't go get yourself a new computer every couple of years on that money you'd save.

It was unbelievable for me. Linux.ting.com. And a really big thank you to Ting for sponsoring Linux Unplugged. Getting us into our 40s, Matt. Good stuff. So crazy. It's hard to believe we're in the 40s already. I mean, it's like, where'd that go?

I know, right? That really did go fast. So I'm just reposting in the chat room right now a Google Doc. That's the problem. Oh, you're the problem. You are the problem. Unfortunately, Samsung can be. Hi.

Sorry, we were discussing S&C. Side conversation. Well, we're back. I'll let you finish it up in the post show. Sorry, I just jumped right back in. That's okay. I just posted in the chat room, if you guys want to take a look at it too, the survey results, the Google spreadsheet results from the home server survey that we did last episode. Seems like everybody has a home server.

Yeah, seriously. Yeah. So, Rotten, what jumped out at you initially when you looked at the results? at you initially when you looked at the results uh the majority of people using the home for their home server is uh heavily in backups and media for like file storage uh like media servers and stuff like that but uh also uh it's a lot of hate against using cloud services yeah it was sort of well go ahead that's pretty easy to explain uh the average user has like what a megabit of upload maybe yeah even even high-end people like me only have five megabits of upload yeah well try to upload a couple of terabytes that way well there's other uses in just in file storage and back yeah yeah right so you know i

like knowing where my stuff is and i this was a home server survey but that jumped out at me too rotten when i was looking through this, essentially like, out of how many did we get? 155, I think. 155 respondents, 158 respondents, like, two of them are using

a host somewhere to be their home server and VPNing into it. And in both cases, it's because of BitTorrent Sync and maybe Plex, or maybe more than two, but it's almost just two. In all cases where they're using cloud hosting, it's for BitTorrent Sync and in some cases Plex.

I was surprised it was that strong of a difference because that was a huge standout. What about you, Ick? What stood out to you when you were looking at the results? Actually, I see a lot of P flex when I look at these results. Yes. A lot of flex.

A lot of media serving. Yeah. Couch potato. Some other stuff that I've never even heard of, like sick beard. Oh, yeah. Well, we covered sick beard recently, but that does seem to be really popular. Oh, yeah. Which is good.

It's good. It's ABNZB, which kind of goes along with sick beard. Sick beard. And I didn't participate in the survey, but a lot of these people, and I are in perfect sync with BitTorrent Sync. I use that all the time. And Plex. Yeah. And network backup.

A few folks are using TinyTinyRSS, which makes me happy because I think that's a good project, and it was a great Google Reader replacement. I use that as well. You know, what jumped out to what jumped out at me is not as much own cloud as I expected. There is definitely a fair amount of own cloud representation, but not quite as much. That's just because, you know, in my opinion, I've talked about this before, it's a pain in the butt to set up. And then once it does get set up, it's like sometimes it screws up. And maybe that's just the database backend or something. I just honestly don't know.

But yeah, there's a lot less own cloud. I see one or two things of own cloud on here, but not much. I like some of these. Some of these guys gave us a total like a list out of their drives and all that kind of stuff. If you are considering jumping into a server and you want to see some of this stuff, this is a really good resource. We'll have it linked in the show notes. Here's an example of somebody who has a DVR running on Fedora 20, but he's planning to change it to Archie's. Two terabyte hard drive, four gigs of RAM.

He's got Myth TV, SubSonic, XBMC, Plex, and, of course, SSH. So many folks. So many folks using Plex. So many Plex users. Plex seems of course SSH. So many folks. So many folks using Plex. So many Plex users. Plex seems to be very dominant. There's also a lot more Arch than I would have expected. Yes. And you know what? A lot more Arch. Almost

a majority of Arch. And also a few mentions of FreeBSD in here and a lot of FreeNAS too. A lot of Arch. A few Ubuntu. A few Debian. Not much in terms of... So here's a lot of free NAS too. A lot of our, a few Ubuntu, a few Debian, but not much in terms of, yeah. So here's a good one. I liked this one.

This guy's got SabNZB, CouchPotatoPlex. He uses his network backup. And then a Git annex, which a Git server is a really good idea. He says, I think the main importance for the NAS will be enough storage, being able to put whatever I would like on there. He says, I do monthly ZFS scrubs.

I do snapshots every day with the ZFS tools, and then I use ZFS Send to send my data to another storage device in another place, which I thought was really good. He said he likes to do rsyncs for simple backups, duplicity for Windows duplications, and BUP, B-U-P, one of the best backup utilities out there, which sounds familiar, but I haven't checked it out, I don't think. Really cool results. I really liked going through this. And, yeah, like other people have picked up on, Arch really stood out in this survey.

Arch really stood out. And I wanted to talk about that a little bit because we just did an episode about building the ultimate home server on Arch. And before we went on the air, I thought maybe I would get a lot of feedback that I was crazy. I was being too on the edge. I was using a toy operating system for a serious task, and I was being irresponsible. That's honestly what I kind of projected what I thought if I was looking into what the future what I thought the feedback was going to be. And I would say overall it has been very

positive. We had a very good response to Sunday's episode the ultimate home server arch home server the arch home server challenge that we did. And the survey results here which is funny I didn't want to look at this before I did the episode because I didn't want to like cheat and like do, oh, that was cool. I want to do that. I wanted to build the thing I wanted to build and then follow up this on Tuesday. So when I opened this up this morning to look at this, I was kind of floored. And then combined with all of the really positive feedback that we got and a lot of folks saying, yeah, I run Arch too, that was sort of revealing to me.

I run Arch too, that was sort of revealing to me. And I thought, I've been wondering if maybe you and I just sort of happened to serendipitously, and thanks to the chat room, as I've been reminded to point out, switch to Arch. It's sort of a time when Arch is reaching sort of a mass momentum. I think so. Yeah. And despite how hard the Arch project seems to try to make it hard for people to adopt, it seems to somehow keep happening. And then we just got these results of the 2014 Reddit Linux subreddit.

Is that how you – the subreddit for the Linux – whatever. R slash Linux. Yeah, r slash Linux subreddit. And they've done these for a while, but a couple of years ago it was taken over by somebody new, and I think he's been doing a good job with this. And so I wanted to cover his results and chat with you guys about this. And, you know, I mean, these are just, these were results. They were posted on a subreddit. They made it sticky for a while.

You know, so take it for what it is. So take it for what it is. They had 10,292 respondents, which is up from 7,698 last year. And the year before that, it was 4,932. So a lot of growth. And it seems RLinux itself has grown a lot in the last year. So you combine the growth of Linux itself with the Linux subreddit, and then the fact that the mod stickied it, they had some pretty good results.

And so they asked folks, do you use Linux on non-server computers? And of course, like 96% of the respondents, 96% of the respondents, yes, because they're in the Linux subreddit. And then they asked them, do you run Linux on any of your server computers? And 58% of people responded yes.

When they asked for fun or profit, for fun, 66% of people, for profit, 27% of people. So that's all kind of interesting. But what I thought really stood out is this next survey question. What Linux distro do you primarily use on your non-server computer? Out of all 10,000 respondents, what is

the number one distribution? Arch. Not Ubuntu. It's Arch. It's Arch Linux. 64% on the server. 36% on the desktop. Overall, I just thought that was pretty standout. And here's a couple of bits of differences. Debian has replaced Linux Mint for

position number 3. Elementary OS has quickly gained a following, putting it in position number 6. Debian has replaced Linux Mint for position number 3. Elementary OS has quickly gained a following, putting it in position number 6. Xubuntu has dropped to position number 7 after Elementary OS. And CrunchBang has risen above Kubuntu and Gentoo for position number 8, and Kubuntu has dropped off the top 10, making it in position 11

now. I don't know about you guys, but my gut, for some reason, gives more credence to this survey than the top 10 results on DistroWatch. No disrespect to the DistroWatch folks, but for some reason gives more credence to this survey than the top 10 results on DistroWatch. No disrespect to the DistroWatch folks, but for some reason... Right, well, DistroWatch is based on just clicks on their website. It's very unsanitary. Right, and this seems like...

I mean, I don't have a strong impression of the user base of RLinux, but it seems to be a wide mix. And in fact, if anything, I would have labeled them as anti-Arch Linux, to tell you the truth. I would have said they kind of hate on Arch a lot in the subreddit. anything, I would have labeled them as anti-Arch Linux to tell you the truth. I would have said they kind of hate on Arch a lot in the subreddit. I disagree. I think that they're – I think you're definitely going to have a mix, but I would say they're more anti-BoonTube. Well, yeah.

To be fair. That's true. They're pretty – They're much stronger, yeah. You're right about that. I've seen like a bigger group of purists for sure, but they're definitely pretty set in their ways. Also, they should have looked at – the survey should have also included the basis. So they should tell you – like Elementary OS is based on Ubuntu, so they should point out how much is being used that's based on Ubuntu.

Yeah, that's – or Ubuntu lost its place because of fragmentation possibly. Well, you could make that same argument about Debian then. place because of fragmentation, possibly. Well, you could make that same argument about Debian, then. Sure, but it's more... I think the more important part is that they did the survey for people to fill out the survey like three weeks before

Ubuntu released 14.04. And that would have skewed the results massively in that way. It should have skewed the results towards Ubuntu because the Ubuntu hype was at an all-time high before the 14.04. But people weren't using it. It was asking, what are you currently using?

People were probably waiting to use it. Well, no, I would think they'd be using Ubuntu, don't you think? And don't you think more Ubuntu users would be trolling the R-Linux subreddit for news about the Ubuntu release than normal? There's a lot of people who went from – there's people who went from Arch to 14.04 and have been using it for a while. There's even a couple blog posts about it. Well, I know. It's just the timing was weird. They could have waited a month.

I don't know. I think, if anything, doing a survey at the weeks leading up to the next major release, if anything, gives more attention to Ubuntu. If anything, I think that's actually more of an indictment of the poor showing of Ubuntu. But I could be wrong, or it could mean nothing. So all of this could mean nothing.

Let's keep that in mind. I want a couple more things just for us to chew on. What Linux distro do you primarily use on your non-server computers? So this is fun versus profit. Number one distribution people use for fun, Arch Linux. So no surprise there. When it comes to profit, only 15% of them use Arch, which is not too surprising.

Debian does a strong showing at 23%, as does Fedora for profit, 28%. Fedora came in at number two for fun at 71%. Really? Wow. Now, what other Linux distro do you use on your non-server computers? Debian showed very strong here, followed by Ubuntu and Arch Linux.

But through this whole thing, Arch does really good. Now, here's an interesting one. More people using Linux on laptops than on desktops. Not by a huge, huge number, but by a pretty good number. There's a problem with that number, though, because he set it up where it was laptops and tablets are the same answer. Yeah, but who's running Linux on a tablet?

People could be considering Android or a bunch of touch. Yeah, yeah. But it does kind of get to the point where I do run Linux on my laptop, but I also run Windows on my gaming desktop for those Windows-only games right now. Yeah, I think there's some folks that do that. So, yeah, Debian, it's interesting, too, for server distributions, Debian was the top, followed by Ubuntu, then CentOS, number three, then Arch and number four.

Arch Linux at number four, then followed by Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Wow. That's got to be because of the demo. That's got to be the demo. I would think, yeah. Although, just because they make the most money doesn't mean they have the largest install base. And then which Linux distro do you primarily use

on your server computers, fun versus profit? Debian, again, is up there. Now, I thought that was kind of funny, too. They get into the desktop scene, and they ask folks, like, what desktop? What's your favorite Linux GUI Gnome 3

really wow that surprised me well I'm running Gnome 3 on the Gnome right now I actually went and arched it and put the Gnome 3 on it I am too I had no problem with Gnome 3 it's just there's been so much hate on it in the past yeah I'm doing Gnome 3 on the Ultra Pro

right now and I love it I'm actually a big fan of Gnome 3, there's just been so much hate on it in the past. Yeah, I'm doing Gnome 3 on the Ultra Pro right now, and I love it. It's growing on me. I'm actually a big fan of Gnome 3, except is it Mudder? Yeah, Mudder. It's not working very well for me, so I've had a few crashes just because of Mudder. And so it kind of locked me down not being able to use Gnome 3. Yeah, yeah. But when I did use it, it's pretty awesome.

KDE. They're using ADI. KDE as number two. Oh, go ahead there, Devlin. Make your point. Yeah, that actually makes me question now that we've been seeing the Qt and GTK fight going on. If GNOME 3 is being so successful

in terms of usage in desktop, wouldn't that mean that kind of GTK3 at least is getting some attention there? Yeah, I mean, maybe this momentum will keep them relevant. So what do you guys think? What is the most hated Linux graphical environment? Any guesses? Unity.

Unity by a freaking ginormous margin. Ginormous margin. Ginormous margin. Which honestly feels a little unfair. In fact, he even points out that the hate for Unity is actually up over previous years. Which is weird. I think that improved so much. Well, it's kind of... Imagine that comes to more people being exposed to it now because it's uh it's in the mainline version uh go ahead there is the second most what i see here is like it seems like

the power users have been are the ones that are actually actively in these communities and participating on the voting and stuff and the result is that those are the users that feel that they got kind of left out in the newest choices. Right. And as a result, it goes back to pretty much. Hold on. Hold on. Let me get the bell. You just nailed it.

Hold on. Yeah, you got it. And let me tell you something else. I think what this shows you is, and this is just my connection here, but I think one of the reasons why Arch is seeing such strong performance is because it's a great distribution to run GNOME. And what's the number one desktop everybody loves? GNOME. So what do people run on their desktops in this survey? Arch. What's the number one desktop environment they're using? GNOME.

So it is interesting that because nobody, even though Fedora does a pretty good job, nobody has gotten off their dumb asses to make a good GNOME 3 implementation. So Arch is eating their lunch and the power users. And I think we as Linux users need to change our perspective because we always talk about these magical pony new users who show up from magical land and just want to say, please, sir, give me some Linux because that's, of course, how new users operate. So we're always talking about these mythical new users.

And in reality, it is those of us who've been running Linux for over a decade now that are still here. We're still relevant. We're still buying products. And guess what? We like GNOME. We like Arch Linux because we have evolved our tastes over time. Not all of us. And I'm not disparaging anybody who hasn't.

our tastes over time. Not all of us, and I'm not disparaging anybody who hasn't, but I think there is a vast majority of longtime Linux users who are sick of the distribution crap and politics. They want these kids off their lawn. They just want to get a good damn desktop, use the latest software, and that's what they want to do all day long and let the kids fight it out. They can go do whatever they need to do. And personally, maybe I'm just bringing my own baggage into this, but I think I might be representing a large crowd here. And I think these numbers might back that up. What do you guys think? I don't think it's only your baggage. I mean, when Gnome Shell started coming out, people were bashing at it. I looked at what they were trying to achieve and it pleased me. I didn't like the implementation at the moment, so I didn't jump right away to using it, but... Yeah, that's how I was too.

So Crossroads, what do you think? Do you think this is me bearing my own baggage? Well, the thing about GNOME 3 and Archches arch doesn't really do a lot they are i mean their whole thing is you know upstream and all that kind of stuff but fedora really pushes gnome um a great example of this is gnome software um still.8.1, I think. Yeah. And it doesn't build, as I've tried. I can't get it to build.

And so, really, Fedora is pushing Gnome. Fedora is the epitome of Gnome. All right, Colonel Linux, why don't you play devil's advocate for me? So, I don't disagree with what you're saying. You make a very good point, but taking that attitude of we're the power users and cater to us, that's great for one desktop, and we have that. where these companies like Canonical are coming in, where they're trying to craft the Unity desktop, is we want to further, we want to spread the idea of Linux. And new users are turned off to Linux primarily because there's people like us that say, well, listen, I can do everything from the command line. And that works really, really well. And it's really, really efficient. I mean,

you just talked a couple episodes ago about how efficient, crazy efficient it is to be able to do things from the command line. But that scares new users off. And so if we want to reach past 10% of the market share, we have to create a welcoming desktop. I think that's the other side of the argument, right? I agree. OpenSUSE and the Ubuntu and the Fedora and the Mangeas and all of these things because they obviously have a role to play in this. But what I think it does mean is there – I think there has been this group of Linux users who kind of have just been overlooked because we're so busy thinking we know what's best for everybody and thinking how we're going to get more users. We're so worried about getting more people using Linux that we kind of just forget about this group who I think is trying to show their voice in these results. But at the same time, it doesn't mean you cater exclusively to them.

I think that would go – I think that would stagnate the adoption of Linux. Absolutely. I agree with you, Noah. All right. Riley, you had a point for Unity. I wanted to get to that. All right, Riley, you had a point for Unity. I wanted to get to that.

Yeah, I was going to say Unity is actually almost underrated because the only thing people ever use Unity on is Ubuntu, and people just don't like Ubuntu for whatever reason. But if you actually tried it on Arch, it's actually pretty awesome. I've been using it for like two weeks now, and I can't believe how stable it is. Are you using the Moo OS, or did you just load it on your own? No, I just did the repo method. Is it the 14.04?

Yeah, it's the same version of 14.04. It's got all the new global menu stuff, all that. Oh, I like that idea. We should do a poll and find out what desktops the chat room and the unplugged users use. Now, there is a caveat with that, though, because Eric installed it, he said, this week, and his GTK stuff got messed up on the other desktops. So if you're going to use Unity, just use Unity. Don't try to use other stuff with it.

That's correct. It kind of borked my machine, and I didn't back it up before, or that partition anyway, so I ended up having to just nuke and pave my Arch install. That kind of applies to Ubuntu as well. If you use Unity, just use Unity. Yeah, that's true.

When I loaded LXQT on my Ubuntu 14.04 install, I was a little bummed because the menus were so jammed full of just all kinds of junk that Unity kind of does a good job of not putting it in your face. But when you go to something that has a more traditional menu structure, oh, it was like

I was feeling the presence of Unity and all of the system settings, all of that stuff. But, you know, that's what you get when you install something over a desktop. So that ain't no thing. You know, I should stop and do a spot, but Ick, would you mind going to strawpole.me and making a poll of like, just say what's your desktop environment and just put like, you know, some of the top ones in there and give me a link.

In fact, I'll jump down to restricted casting so you guys can come up with the list while I tell you guys about DigitalOcean, another sponsor of Linux Unplugged and another company that I am very, very happy to be a customer of. What is DigitalOcean, another sponsor of Linux Unplugged and another company that I am very, very happy to be a customer of. What is DigitalOcean? Well, DigitalOcean is simple cloud hosting dedicated to offering the most intuitive and easy way

to spin up a cloud server. Folks in our audience have been able to get up and running in about 42 seconds, but just, you know, to hedge their bets, DigitalOcean is going to say, yeah, we bet about 55 seconds or so you can get a cloud server that you have root access to spun up. And pricing plans start only $5 per month for 512 megabytes of RAM, a 20 gigabyte SSD, which I really love that SSD. One CPU and a terabyte of transfer. Yes, a terabyte.

So for like, you know, a lot of you, that's right there at $5. You'd be surprised at how much machine you can get. Plus, DigitalOcean pairs up with the tier one bandwidth providers and the best data center locations all over the world in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam. And they're always growing. They're always adding. In fact, to that end, they're also hiring. So you might want to go to DigitalOcean.com and click that We're Hiring button and see if there's a job there for you. But while you're there, use our brand-new promo.

Well, actually, it's not so brand-new anymore. It's getting towards the end of May. But let's rock May for Linux Unplugged. Use our promo code UNPLUGGEDMAY, and you'll get a $10 credit. That $10 credit will let you try out that $5 rig for two months for absolutely free. DigitalOcean.com, UNPLU, unplugged May is that promo code. Once you get logged in, go check out that dashboard. Go look at that dashboard and tell me that is not the coolest thing ever. They have managed to wrap around an entire KVM management system that allows you to

deploy virtual images around the world to different data centers, take snapshots and backups, manage the DNS, an HTML5 web console, one-click application installs, all riding on top of Linux and KVM through seriously one of the best and most intuitive but yet powerful interfaces I have ever seen. It is worth getting a DigitalOcean account just to see a little bit of masterpiece right there. DigitalOcean.com and use the promo code unpluggedmay and a huge, huge, huge thank you to Digital Ocean. Oh, and also, I was going to mention, go look at their pricing plans. They have hourly pricing. I don't mention

that enough. And so if you guys just need to do a little bit of testing, you can go get a Digital Ocean account, use our promo code unpluggedmay and try the hourly pricing. You will probably be able to run that machine for quite a while with that $10 credit. That is a great way if you just want to run it for a couple of hours. I've got emails from folks that do build projects up there. They do some quick syncing and they shut it down. Try it out. Try out their hourly pricing. You might find that works really well for you. And also, if you get stuck when you're trying to deploy something, go look at their community section. They've got some really good tutorials that people have written up.

Like here's an example, how to use BitTorrent Sync to synchronize directories in Ubuntu 14.04. One of the things I noticed in our survey was a lot of folks who are using cloud hosting are using that now as their own method of backup. Because it's just a really good way for you to be able to control your data and backup. And there's all kinds of things that are in here. It's not just BitTorrent Sync, of course. There's all kinds of server-side applications. You might need a little help. They've got tons and tons of pages.

And they're current and up-to-date because they've got a really passionate community. DigitalOcean.com and use the promo code UNPLUGGED to get that $10 credit. And a big thank you to DigitalOcean for sponsoring Linux Unplugged. Loves it. So I'll jump back in here. How are we doing? Are we working on the poll? Yeah, we've got the poll done.

I just have yet to get a link for it. Oh, okay, yeah. So once you submit it, it'll make a little link that you can copy at the top. You can drop off the results, a little slash R, and then toss it out in the chat room, and we'll have the chat room vote and get an idea of what their poll is. I'll vote too, and we'll put that out there.

But I might have too many options. It's not letting me. Oh, really? You guys put that? What did you put in there? What are the desktops you put in there? What are they? Oh, gosh.

We put in Gnome Shell, Unity, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, LXQT, Mate, i3, Awesome, XNomad, Pantheon, Cinnamon, Fluxbox, Openbox, TWM, Windows Manager, EA17. That's probably the problem. And ScrewD is just the shell. There's a few you can easily take out, like JWM. You can take that out. You forgot Rat Poison.

This is what happens when a committee comes up with a poll. Some of them you maybe just combine a bunch of the very, very similar ones into one option. Yeah, that's a great idea. Is there a big difference between Xfce and lxde yes we should just say tiling or something like that there's not that much difference i mean all right qt is not it's not even final yet so let's give daredevlin has something he wants to add to the uh to the discussion let's him go ahead even though i personally use iTree most of the time and I use GNOME Tree, when I go out in public

and if I'm going to a place full of noobs, I go with something more that will be more user-friendly to them. Even though my personal preference is iTree, in that scenario, I think it matches well. And I think a lot of us kind of do that. We've seen that at least in the Linux Fest So I think it matches well. And I think a lot of us kind of do that. We've seen that at least in the Linux Fest and stuff like that.

People go and use their technical stuff. But when they go in to meet new users, it's just that it becomes so simpler to show something off. Look, look. This is iCandy. Yeah. All right. So I wanted to open up a topic to the room here, so now everyone is free to move about

the cabin. One thing I thought would be kind of fun, because we are obviously a bunch of Linux enthusiasts slash advocates. We're always talking about why people should switch to Linux. I also think it's good, though, to be real about it. So that way, because here's the truth, you guys. There's a lot of people that listen to this show that have a dirty secret.

They don't use Linux. They run Windows or Mac or whatever it is. But they listen. They listen to kind of keep their beak wet. They listen to kind of keep their ear to the ground so they know what's going on because they're considering it. And so for these folks, I like to give them the real story. And, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot because in HowToLinux, Chase is going to be making the switch.

And, you know, I don't want to blow smoke up his butt. I want to be honest. Like when something sucks, it sucks. And I want to be able to say, yeah, man, that doesn't work so well, but don't worry, you can do X. Or, yeah, we're still working on that. That kind of stuff. So I've been bitpuffing in the chat room, just came out of the closet. He's on a Mac right now. But I thought, let's talk about some Linux switching stories or when we convince somebody to switch to Linux and it backfired real bad.

Because maybe we can learn as a group. I'll start, and then I wanted to toss over to Noah because I know he's done some client deployments, so he probably has a story. But I'll start, and then I wanted to toss over to Noah, because I know he's done some client deployments, so he probably has a story. But I'll start with mine. One of my biggest Linux shames, like my big Linux failure, was when I got my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time,

I believe, switched over to Linux. And it was KDE, this was a long time ago, and I switched her photo manager over from whatever she was using at the time on the Mac. It might have been iPhoto, though I feel like this was pre-iPhoto. It was different enough that when she was organizing her photos,

she was permanently moving and deleting them and didn't know that because that's not how it worked in her own program. Oh, no. And I ended up losing a whole bunch of her photos. And that was like, you know, at that point we were done. You know, experiment was over going back to another opera. I can't remember if it was windows or what it was. And it was the relationship was done. No, the switch to Linux experiment was done. No, no, we're married now. So I managed to save the relationship, but I don't know if I had pushed that Linux thing,

who knows? So that's, that's my failure. You know, I should have, I should have probably thought ahead and thought, yeah, this photo program is going to work different for her. But Noah, have you been out there? Have you convinced a client or a user or a friend or family member to switch to Linux only to have it blow up in their face or your face, as the case might be? It has. It has blown up. I want to give a disclaimer. It has gone the other way many, many, many more times.

Nine out of ten times right when i install linux for a client they are much happier and i lose money right that's that's 90 of the way because they're not they're not taking they're not calling you up for support anymore so you lose money right yes right but there have been a couple of times one one that i'll tell you one that's that's comical and and then a true example of where Linux just failed. We had a hotel. It was a complete web-based system that they used to check people in and out. And so we walked in.

I said, well, what's the problem? Well, the computer is really slow, and it takes a long time to boot. Nothing really works right. And I mentioned this when we were all meeting at Linux Fest, but I have a dirty little secret. Anytime I try somebody out on Linux for the first time, what I will do is I will use a Samsung 840 SSD. Because when I put that drive into the computer, all of a sudden, not only don't they have the junk that comes with Windows, but that SSD just flies. Super fast, yeah. Right.

And based next to an actual spinning hard drive, it just seems that much faster. Right. So I put the drive in there, and oh my gosh, the computer's so fast. Everything works. We're so happy. Great, and I leave.

The next day I get a call. The computer doesn't work. What do you mean it doesn't work? So I go back over and I look, and she goes, well, I don't like, see this, the icon has changed. It's no longer the little blue E. How do we get the blue E on there? And I said, well, it'll do the same thing.

You just click on this. Well, we don't know which one to click on, and all of our staff doesn't know which one to click on. And when you open it, everything works fine. But if anyone closes it, then we don't know how to get back there. So I actually ended up downloading the icon file and changing it and renaming it Internet Explorer and theming it to look like Windows Internet Explorer just to keep them happy.

Oh, man. I don't think that really exemplifies Linux failing. Where Linux actually truly and totally failed me was I had a friend, and she called me. She said, you know, what do you recommend? My computer is kind of reaching the end of its life. And I said, what do you do with it? Well, I get online, and I edit documents, and I do this, and I do that.

Okay. So I walked her through installing Linux. All of her music would not pull over because she had purchased it in whatever Windows user. I don't even know. Plays for sure? Plays for sure DRM? She had a Zune. Okay.

And that might have been Plays for sure. Okay. So whatever it is, it doesn't pull into Linux. And it was one of those things where she'd asked me before, can I move my music collection over? Well, of course you can move music. Linux plays music. Yeah, no problem, right? Right.

No, that didn't work. Yeah. And then she goes, well, can I play Netflix? Well, we installed the Netflix desktop, but if you don't have a really powerful machine running all of the layers that it needs to run, so that didn't work. Yeah. And essentially what it all boiled down to was she could edit her Word documents and she could check her email. And that was it.

And we ended up going back to Windows. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, like the WMA, they were probably even WMA files, right? They were. Yeah. I mean. WMV, I think. Yeah.

So that's, you know, that's a hard thing because that's Angela, my wife's mom, kind of the same situation, right? They use a computer. They're on a satellite connection. So they're basically just downloading a few things, printing off photos, and updating Facebook. But they have bought, I mean, I don't want to speak for them, but it's potentially thousands of dollars worth of DRM copyright protected music. And it's just one of those things where I don't have the time to unencumber all of that music for them. So they are on some ancient, it might even be Vista installed.

Oh, wow. Because what are you going to do, right? All right, anybody else in the mumble room want to share a Linux deployment blew up? I mean, again, like Noah said, of course it generally goes good. I don't have a huge detailed one, but essentially I gave someone Linux because they were tired of Windows. I mean, again, like Noah said, of course it generally goes good. I don't have a huge detailed one, but essentially I gave someone Linux because they were tired of Windows,

and then I had to go away for a couple weeks or so, and by the time I got back, they had given up and bought a Mac. Oh, that's a fail. That was a quick nut punch. I thought you were going to keep going, and then boom, you strike with that. Wow. I have a quick nut punch. I thought you were going to keep going, and then boom, you strike with that. Wow. I have a quick one, too. I was going over to a friend of a friend's house. It was late at night.

We weren't going to be there for long. And I see that he's running Ubuntu on his TV right in front of his bed. And I'm like, oh, cool. Linux, Linux, Linux. And then he couldn't get the resolution correct. And I'm like, well, maybe you should just try updating. So we do a little sudo apt-get update, sudo apt-get upgrade,

and it doesn't boot. And I have to leave pretty soon, and he never talks to me again. No! That's a bad one! Ouch, ouch, ouch. Alright. Well, if my microphone works... Yeah, we hear you.

Does it? Go ahead, Jack. Yeah. Okay. Actually, I have three stories where I can wrap it up in one because it's always the same story for all three cases. Oh, okay. What is it? Last month, I just can't explain how it happened, but I guess it's a mixture between the XP ending and the always malware stuff that happens on Windows systems. Anyway, three guys came to me and asked specifically to install them Linux on their computers.

And I must say, they are happy with it. Oh, good. Just happy. Well, that's good. That's great. Well, good story. Yes, it is. Good story. Oh, good. Just happy. Well, that's good. That's great. Well, good story. Yes, it is. Good story.

I'm still kind of amazed. Yeah. I had my dad on it for years and years, and then he ended up wanting a new computer, and the shiny Mac got him. We had a little bit of a mini disaster that kind of pushed him over. Yeah, but my worst story is the photo one. All right, we've had some back and forth, but we do now have the official – Oh, we have one more story before I get to the clip?

No, I just wanted to point out that my story was like dropping a bomb with a Mac thing, but this was also in like 2005, 2006. So it was kind of a mess back then anyway. Yeah, mine was way – mine was before iTunes was a thing, I think, and before iPhoto was a thing. That's how long ago mine was. And so now I would have her use Darktable or something like that. A really short positive one.

Sure. Okay, yeah. Go ahead. It turns out my 80-year-old stepdad actually put Suza on his box on his own. And it worked. He's happy with it. You know, and you guys... And I didn't help him.

No bearing on the fact that I'm a Linux user now, but my grandpa on my dad's side of the family, he's in his 80s and he's got... His favorite distro is Puppy Linux. He's loved Puppy Linux for years and he thinks it's the best, perfect distro for him, and he likes putting it on low-end hardware. But he's also a big Fedora user,

and he tries out every Ubuntu release, but he always ends up going back to Fedora, which I think is hilarious because, yeah, he's also in his 80s. It's awesome. Yeah, it's just something he's always enjoyed tinkering with, and I didn't even know until after I started the Linux Action Show

like a couple of years into it, it came up, my dad mentioned to him that I was doing a Linux show, and it's like, oh, you like Linux? I'm like, are you serious? My mind was blown.

My mind was, it was like I had entered another reality. All right, so let's- That's more or less what happened to me as well. That was amazing. Here is the, we've had a few iterations of it, but here's our latest poll.

Which desktop environment do you use? I'm going to vote. We'll also have this in the show notes. We want the download audience to vote too. I'm just curious what you guys use. So I'm going to vote for Gnome Shell for both of us. Okay, Matt? Okay, sounds good.

That sounds like me. All right, so I'm voting. And I guess I already voted on that. I may have already voted. All right, and the results are, hold on, survey says, I think we put Stropo under some load here. Right now, Gnome Shell has a healthy 27% lead, followed by KDE with a 22% lead.

Cinnamon coming in at 11%, Unity 9%, XFCE 9%, Mate 7%, and then it kind of trails off from there. This is almost mirroring exactly what we saw in R Linux. That's wild. And, you know, I've kind of lost my love for Cinnamon. I mean, it was fun for a while, but just, you know, it's kind of like watching the same TV show over and over. After a while, you kind of get bored with it.

Well, yeah. But the extensions of Cinnamon are not as good as Gnome's, but they are pretty good. Yeah, they are pretty good. It got my interest for a while. At the end of the day, for me and Cinnamon, and I think it's great for a lot of folks who want a classical UI but brought a little more into the year 2014. Man, does Cinnamon nail that?

And it does it really well. For me, the problem is I think what you're kind of getting at, Matt, is I'm just kind of done with that. It's the same thing that eventually kind of wears on me about Mate or Mate. I've played that. I grokked that UI, but I recognize that the paradigm that was set up way back in the 80s is

due for some refreshing, and I think that's why I like GNOME 3. And honestly, if I spend enough time configuring my KDE desktop, what I like about KDE too is I can make it feel like a more modern operating system. It's true. On some boxes, I still do use XFCE

simply because I'm not in front of them every day. I need quick access to something. I'm using a launcher anyway, so I don't care why run the resources at that point. But for a daily use situation, yeah, I do prefer norm. Go ahead, Riley. I found that it's for people who don't

want all the unnecessary stuff that kde has like it still has all your extensions it still has like your desktop effects and all that stuff so yeah yeah i think it's pretty much uh cinnamon but i mean it's pretty much kde but on gtk so well it lacks 30 ways to get to the control panel i mean you know that's kind of i would disagree with that uh but that's i think uh cinnamon's also a good source for people who want a a full-fledged de but can't you know put they can't devote a lot of resources to it because there's been uh benchmarks that show that XFCE and Cinnamon are very close to about the same

resource usage, and that's actually kind of amazing when you think about it. It came from GNOME. How does Cinnamon work when you don't have compositing? Does it still work okay? It doesn't work very well. It's very slow. It needs a graphics card. It doesn't

really matter what kind of graphics card. So that would be an area, though, where XFCE kind of has that leg up. You're still in a GTK environment. And I think an area where LXQT is going to be a strong competitor for XFCE. I wanted to go back to something that Crossroads was going to mention. Go ahead, Crossroads. Okay. Go ahead, Crossroads.

Okay, so the thing about Cinnamon is that at least when I – I always thought when I was on Unity, I saw Cinnamon. I thought it was great. I thought it was wonderful. I really wanted to try it out. I never really got around to it. I ended up using KDE and used a few things. And then I finally installed the Manjaro version with Cinnamon. And I thought I was going to love it.

I thought it was going to be great. And I used it. It was fine. And then I got bored really quickly. And I just, it never, I don't know, turned me on. I think sometimes, too, because the options are there to tweak with them, you fiddle with them, and then you get bored with fiddling with those options. And, God, this sounds so weird.

It almost sounds like, what's it called when, like, you get kidnapped and then you relate to your kidnappers? Oh, Stockholm Syndrome. Stockholm? Stockholm Syndrome. I wonder if GNOME gives me Stockholm Syndrome a little bit because I'm like, because it doesn't have all these things for me to tweak, although they are tweakable, actually. Like, a lot of stuff is surprisingly tweakable. But because, like, it's not just a right click,'s not right there i generally just leave it alone like one i i essentially i install gnome i spend about 20 minutes getting like my theme and my icons and

and fiddling with different things that you know every time i try something new settling on something and then i i generally don't ever change it again unless a new icon pack comes out that I want to check. But on KDE, it is a daily occurrence that I'm changing something because it's there. And it's just right there too. It's right click, boom, there it is. So it's a long and short of if you have any type of obsessive types of your personality. That's probably

not because I'm that way too. I speak from experience. That might not be the best desktop choice for folks like us. I don't know. Now Lionhead, you just don't way too. I speak from experience. That might not be the best desktop choice for folks like us. I don't know. Now, Lionhead, you just don't get it. I understand. What's your point? Well, I just feel confused when I'm using it.

So I just feel that XFCE is more streamlined, at least for my kind of workflow. It just works better on the laptop. is more streamlined, at least for my kind of workflow. Yeah. It just works better on the laptop. But at the same time, you can streamline it whatever way you want, too. Yeah. All right, well, before we wrap up, well, go ahead. Finish up.

Finish your thought. I was just going to say, I think the problem with GNOME is that people aren't used to the paradigm, so they expect something else. Yeah. When if they give it enough time, then GNOME can actually be,

it can change your preference of the paradigm, and you'll actually like GNOME more than other ones if you just try it. Yep, I agree. I agree. Very good, guys. Well, so if you wanted to check out the home server survey, especially if you're going to build a home server soon,

or you're thinking about it, or you want to figure out how you want to improve yours, go look at those results. There's some great content that you guys supply, gals, guys, and gals. I say guys universally. It's a unisex term for me. Just disclaimer on that. And then also, we'd love to hear your feedback. I decided this week we would do the survey for the feedback. We generally read a few emails on the Linux Unplugged show. For this week, I actually ended up replying directly a lot to the emails and didn't really feel like anyone

particularly grabbed me that I wanted to pull into the show. But we do love featuring your emails. So go over to jupyterbroadcasting.com, click that contact link, choose Linux Unplugged from the dropdown, and maybe you can kick off our next discussion.

I love having a topic on the show that is sort of inspired by an email that comes in. Maybe not be the main topic, but something we can chew on is always appreciated. So anything in the Linux space that you would love to hear a good discussion on, please send it in and ask your question. Don't make it too long so that way we can fit it on air. And you never know, maybe you will help set

the course for the next Linux Unplugged show. And last but not least, we do have this open mumble room from these fine gentlemen that you've been hearing from. And we don't have any ladies that are joining us in the virtual mumble room, so ladies out there, if you'd like to represent the female Linux perspective, we'd love to have you. Just go over to jblive.tv. We do Linux

Unplugged live at 2pm Pacific on Tuesday. Just go to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar to get that in your time zone. And when you go to the live page, we have an embedded chat room, and you can join that embedded chat room and hit bang mumble. And when you hit bang mumble, it tells you the mumble server address. Now you might say, Chris, why don't you just say it right now?

Well, first of all, dear listener, perhaps it's going to change at some point, and I just want you to stay dynamic. Or maybe it's a members-only jacket, and the only way you can find out is you come to our chat room and put on the jacket. I used to rock one of those so hard back in the day. You have no idea. We should totally have

a Linux unplugged members only jacket. I think that would actually... My mom might still have mine. I mean, it's like... I think that would actually be particularly kind of cool. I don't think Teespring

is going to be able to hook us up with that though. But that'd be a good one. All right. Is there any other business we should cover before we get out of here? Well, you might want to mention that bang is the exclamation mark for people who are on the audio only.

Oh, what? Oh, yeah. Did I mention the bang suggest thing? Did I even say bang suggest? No, bang mumble. Bang mumble. Oh, yeah. Bang is exclamation mark.

Right. Yeah. And the other thing, so we have a few commands in the chat. Remember, you joined us live. The other one is bang suggest where you can help us title it, and then we vote on that shenanigans at the end of the show. That's kind of like the funnest thing we do. All right, guys.

Well, thanks, everybody, for a great show this week. Matt, if all goes as planned. Now, you know me, I hate to speak for a guest. But if all goes as planned, on Sunday, Jonathan from the OpenShot Project will be joining us to discuss OpenShot, where they're at, give us an update on how that project's doing. So I think that should be a good show. Oh, definitely. That should be on Sunday's Linux Action Show.

And if that doesn't work out, if Jonathan ends up realizing he's about to come on with a bunch of hooligans like us, then we'll come up with something else great. We just pull it right out of our butts. We just store it all right there. Oh, he's good to people. I'm sure he is. I know. I think we're all looking forward to it. All right, Matt. Oh, he's good to people, I'm sure. Yeah, I know. I think we're all looking forward to it. Alright, Matt, well,

have a great week. I'll see you on Sunday, okay? See you then. Alright, everyone, thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Linux Unplugged. See you right back here next Tuesday. Bye-bye. Thank you.