LINUX Unplugged - Episode 64: SeaGL & OLF Roundup | LINUX Unplugged 64

Episode Date: October 29, 2014

Our interviews from SeaGL 2014, a grassroots technical conference dedicated to spreading awareness and knowledge about the GNU/Linux community and free/libre/open-source. Special guest Angela Fisher joins us to discuss getting women involved with Linux and technology general.Plus our fun stories from Ohio LinuxFest 2014, a few closing thoughts, your feedback & much more!

So none of us probably are really happy with the state of advertising on the web. I'm looking at you, Pharonix. And it seems like Adblock isn't quite enough. So check out this new type of Adblock. It's called Adnauseum. And this not only hides ads using your standard Adblock plug-in, it also simultaneously clicks all of the ads and hides all of the associated windows that come up after they've been clicked to send click signals to all the advertising networks to essentially jam their signals.

Bam! Yeah, to basically make it like, okay, well, fine, you're going to keep trying to get more and more invasive with the tracking. That'd be great. When that first comes out, a bunch of sites, probably like Foronix, are going to get banned from the advertising network for click fraud. I know. Who is that? That's Alan. Hi. Oh, okay. I was going to say, that sounds like Alan. That sounds like some handsome Canadian I know.

I know there's another guy that does sound like Alan, but it really sounded like Alan. Have you been talking to other Canadians? No, it's another mumble guy. Hi, Alan. Really, somebody that sounds like me, I must find this person and destroy them. Right, exactly. So what do you think?

Do you think this is going to cause a problem? Do you think this is going to cause a big upset on the web? This sounds like a gigantic dick move to me. It's GPL, too. Nice. It seems to me that if you were to install it, just you wouldn't do anything. They'd be like, ha-ha, look at those. Look at their trying to essentially DDoS, right?

Well, I think it's to piss off the advertisers. What happens if one of the advertising sites is compromised? Does that mean you click through some shonky Java thing that compromises your machine? Although the way the code works is I guess it immediately kills the window or something like that. IamIcon brings up a very good point.

What's that, Andrews? He says, well, I think his point is if you went to a site where you're okay with ads, you'd be doing... Your dick move gets a dick move. Right, but isn't that true just using Adblock?

Say you really liked Foronix. Well, no, because that's passive. If you really don't know. It doesn't pass 100% of the time either. This website is aggressive. It's true. You're not... Yeah, you're just not displaying them.

Yeah, I don't know. There is definitely potential for problems with malicious ads. It's Alan. Also, Amicon brings up another good point. Adblock doesn't stop Foronix. Yes, it does.

Really, what you should do is... I see no adverts on Pharonix right now. Neither do I. Go do the tutorial we did on BSD Now, and you can block them on your BSD or Linux-based router, and then you just replace all the ads on the websites with a 1x1 pixel GIF file.

I just think that if you don't have a problem with Adblock, you really shouldn't have a problem with Adnauseum. I mean, Adnauseum, yes, is one step further, but Adblock is still robbing the websites of view revenue. It is. Right, but that's just not giving viewers, whereas the click fraud is actually... Yeah, it's fraud. Yeah, it causes serious issues.

I mean, I agree. It's another step, but... And with Adblock, I tend to turn it off for sites that I use a lot. So actually, I see quite a lot of adverts on the web because I disable it for a lot of sites. I do try. I forget to do that, but I do try to do it for some sites. At the same time,

there are some sites who actually detect that you're running ad-blocking software and tell you about it. Yeah, exactly. Well, they not only guilt trip you, but also say, if you don't turn that off, we're going to do this, this, and this,

like cookies and what have you, to track you. All right, second pre-show topic. I got a second pre-show topic. All right? Because I think everybody's probably done with this one. I'm really excited, and I need a correspondent to keep us posted on new developments,

because there is, in the makings, an open-source Age of Empires II clone. Meh. Nice. Really? I know. He backed away from the microphone to give that silent pause.

I was excited. My favorite childhood game. Yeah, this is like... It was never my favorite. Oh, Age of Empires is great. And I've always wanted it on Linux. And right now, that's one of the reasons I use Crossover, actually.

I use Crossover to play. Can I Conquer was better. Yeah, well, I like them both. But as far as a continuation of Age of Empires, Rise of Nations was nice. It kind of combined Age of Empires with Sin, but kept the real-time aspects. Yeah. My dad's a big fan of that game. So it's going to be called Open Age.

It's being written in C++11 with Python scripting support. I don't know. I'm pretty excited. I love the idea of a native Age of Empires on Linux. Maybe because I currently use Wine to play Age of Empires 3. So I feel the pain. I know it's pretty exciting. I love it.

I love it. I love it. I love old games that come back with a vengeance. That's some good music, but what am I doing on this show? Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's powered by a failed adrenal gland. My name is Chris. And my name is Matt. I just say that because I feel like I've exhausted all adrenal glands in my body, but I'm here. Adrenal gland, it gives you adrenaline? Really? Nobody knows about adrenal glands except for me?

Okay, fine, whatever. It was a bad intro. But that's okay, because we're going to make up for it with the rest of the show, Matt. Coming up in this week's episode of Linux Unplugged, we're going to go down to Seagull. It was going on at the same time as Ohio Linux Fest. And producer Eric was there scoring us some interviews, so we're going to do that. Plus our follow-up from Ohio Linux Fest.

We'll get the crew's take on the trip. And that's why very special guest Angela Fisher joins us in the studio today. Here I am, everybody. Hello, hello, Angela. Hello. Two shows in one day. Wow. Geez, that's pretty impressive. I know. I don. Hello, hello, Angela. Hello. Two shows in one day. Wow. Geez, that's pretty impressive. I know. I don't know what that's like. Look at you. Yeah. You don't know what that's like. Well, I'm glad you're here because not only did you attend Ohio Linux Fest with us, so we'll get your take, but there's actually some great

interviews Eric got from Siegel about women getting involved in technology, the makerspace and coding and all of that. So we'll chat about some of those things, because I know that's an area of your interest. But first, we are joined by an excellent mumble group. Hey, everybody in the mumble room. Thanks for being here today. Hello. Hello.

I think my adrenal gland is constantly working. Yeah. Yeah, probably. See, Eric was on board. Eric was on board. He knew. Thank you, Eric. I have so much energy.

Thank you, Eric. Thank you. Okay, so let's start with some feedback this week before we get into all of the conference stuff. So Jor-El wrote in, father of Superman, and he says, hafa'ata, Chris and Matt. I don't actually know what that means, but I like it. It's a greetings, maybe. I saw on LAS, the one with Ubuntu 14.10 released, it got me interested enough to check out the changelog myself. So I head over to the Ubuntu website. I start to look at the changelog, and I try to find out what's coming up.

However, everything in the changelog seems to be pretty superficial. In other words, they are giving us words that some people look for, but nothing really specific, nothing really deep about certain bugs that were fixed or things like that. So what do you guys think? How do you dive deeper when you're trying to make a decision

on whether or not to upgrade to the next Linux distribution? You want to get down to the meat of the details. You got to sniff stuff out. Matt, when you're trying to figure out the nitty gritty between releases, do you have any tricks to do any sleuthing? Not necessarily.

I mean, with any distribution, unless it's a rolling distro and then I just don't care. But with any distro I actually have to upgrade to, I generally never will make that jump until it's had at least two or three months out in the open a little bit. Kind of let the stink off a little bit. Let it air out. There you go. Yeah, that's one way is to kind of crowdsource it, in a sense, and let people find stuff. What do you think, Popey? Is there maybe a more distribution

specific resource, like say in the case of Ubuntu you could use? So, yeah, we do have a mailing list called Release Name Changes and that opens as soon as the release opens so when Trusty opens there'll be a mailing list called Trusty Changes and every single change

is in that mailing list. Every bug, every single change. But nobody reads that. You wouldn't want to read it. Well, you could. You could search the archive, right? You could, yeah. And it's all public. You could read that.

Or you could look at the individual changelogs for each package. You could do that. If you go to packages.obuntu.com, you could do that. There you go. See, I got the sense he was looking for a specific change. What about checking the bug tracker? Is that crazy? I mean, if he's looking for something specific, right?

Well, the changelog links to the bug bug tracker it links to each launchpad bug that's been fixed so yeah you you could do that so it's a little different distro to distro so it sounds like that's a good approach for ubuntu uh and and and for the most part there's probably something similar for other distributions out there i uh i and i never really think about it that much i always do kind of look at the broader changes but when you get down when you narrow down sometimes you look i want to know is this specific thing solved? Otherwise, it's not worth my upgrade. So it was a good question, Jor-El.

Any of you out there in the audience? On FreeBSD, we've actually recently come up with a better solution to this problem. Nobody's going to read the SVN logs to see every commit that's come in. And so we've always had release notes, this big document that comes with each version and it describes what was changed.

But, you know, maintaining that basically ended up with one guy the week before the release going through the SVN logs, and that became very difficult. So in our source code control now, when you write your commit message, we have a bunch of fields that we use by standard in FreeBSD, like approved by this person, or bug was found by this person, or this commit was sponsored by this company, or whatever. And there's now one called release notes, yes. And when that's there, then you can just compile a list of every change that was significant enough to need to be noted in the next release notes. So the developer has to kind of plug in that data, and they generally do? So every time somebody makes a change, they note whether they think it's worthy of going in the release notes for the next version.

Okay. So, yes, it's not foolproof, but they've found it helps a lot because it helps the documentation team come up with that list of what has actually changed in this next release. And so there's still a human then that takes sort of that input and then formats it? Yeah, and curates it into a nicely English formatted document and breaks down into sections like these are the new drivers we got and these are the new applications

we have. We upgraded KDE to this version. Yeah, getting the drivers and stuff like that broken out is specifically handy. If you've ever been in that situation where, I think Eric, you've been in this position where a Linux kernel version comes along and all of a sudden something that worked on your laptop before is no longer working right

and it really comes down to a driver. Didn't that kind of happen to you recently? Yeah, it did. Actually, when 3.15 came out, actually, my computer would not boot. It would go into a failed state. The processor would go to full.

It would load the kernel and then done. And part of that, it would load the kernel and then done. And part of that, it turned out to be a video driver issue. They enabled something in the Bay Trail video processors. Oh, yeah. And what they enabled doesn't work for mine, so it just crashed it. Luckily, I was able to work with the guys to figure out what happened and submit a bug report and it got fixed with the next version. So you're okay now?

Oh yeah, everything 3.16, 3.17, no problems. It was fun talking to folks. I didn't realize people still play with their Linux kernels. I met a couple of people at Ohio Linux Fest that we got on the topic of

what they do to their Linux rigs. And a lot of them are like, yeah, I try out different stuff. So people are plugging this stuff away just for funsies. So I think it is more of a topic than we think if people want to track this stuff. Hey, I'll tell you about something I want to track. That's Ting. Go over right now. I want you to Linux.Ting.com.

That's our first sponsor this week. Linux.Ting.com. Linux.Ting.com. And that will take $25 off your first device. If you've already got a Ting device, they'll give you a $25 credit for service. And if you're getting something like a Wi-Fi hotspot, you know, like one of those MiFis, or you don't use a lot of minutes, that might last you more than a month. It did for me.

I actually got, like, I think it was almost my first two months for free. And Ting's great because you only pay for what you use. There's no contract. It's $6 a line. So you want to get a new phone? You want another phone? It's $6. Straightforward. And then it great because you only pay for what you use. There's no contract. It's $6 a line. So you want to get a new phone? You want another phone? It's $6. Straightforward. And then it's just your usage. Ting takes your minutes, your messages, your megabytes. They add them all up. You want to turn on hotspot and tethering? It's just your data usage. If you need customer support, you call them 1-855-TING-FTW and a real person answers the phone. And you know,

Ange, I'm coming up on my two-year mark with Ting. That's pretty awesome. It's kind of crazy. You know, if you've been thinking about Ting, you should go over to linux.ting.com right now. Try out their savings calculator. Plug in your actual usage, what you pay, and then see what it would look like for you. And it's so handy for me. I'm extremely lucky that I have got fantastic Ting service here by the studio.

I mean, I did a speed test the other day. I got 18 megabits download on my cell phone. Wow. Yeah. And to that point, you know, there was a time when Alan had flown in for LinuxFest Northwest, and Comcast, as Comcast do, went down.

And we were able to continue on by turning the hotspot, the tethering actually was the wi-fi hotspotting on my nexus 5 on and we ran off of the ting connection for the day got the show prep done did all the visuals off our ting connection it really saved the day it's really handy to have and the other thing that's great about ting is that dashboard allows you to turn devices on and off so if you want to have a travel phone but you don't necessarily need it all the time go in there and deactivate the line for a little while same with the mi-fi adapters if you go to have a travel phone, but you don't necessarily need it all the time, go in there and deactivate the line for a little while. Same with the MiFi adapters.

If you go to linux.ting.com, you're going to get $25 off the device. So it's a great way to start. And they've always got interesting stuff, too, on their blog. Go to linux.ting.com and then click the blog. They've got a post up about the internet rock star Robin Chase joining the board of directors at Ting. It's pretty cool. Robin's from Zipcar, Netflix, Etsy, Skype. You know, you've probably heard a few of those companies. Oh, wow. Yeah, now sitting at the board of Ting. Jeez's pretty cool. Robin's from Zipcar, Netflix, Etsy, Skype. You know, you've probably heard a few of those companies.

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All right. Well, so we have just a couple more bits of emails to get to and then I want to get to we got five really great interviews that Eric grabbed for us. But Martin wrote in to celebrate the release of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12. Woo! And this is good. Coming up on this Sunday, we're going to review the new of SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12. And this is good.

Coming up on this Sunday, we're going to review the new OpenSUSE. And I think a lot of this release is going to be influenced by what you see in SLED. So he says, I'm really excited because SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 just released. The links he gives us talk about a little bit. He says, also interesting news, just before the OpenSUSE 3.2 review next Sunday, I'm rocking OpenSUSE 13.2 for three weeks. I've had no problems at all. I have ButterFS for my file system, XFS for my home directory. A rock-solid

release, in my opinion. Best regards, Martin from the Netherlands. So there you go. Pretty exciting. And one more email before we get to the interviews. Bruce writes in and he wants to know something. Maybe if we can just share a little collective wisdom, guys. I've been a LastLup fan for a year or so.

He says he distro hops. He's been doing distro hopping since Red Hat 6. He loves to have fun. He loves to move around. But he says he's constantly reading and hearing the gospel that the single greatest benefit of Linux is freedom, freedom to slice and dice the way you want, to modify it, to share and distribute, to change and update. If that freedom is such a fundamental belief,

why are there such protracted and heated debates on topics like System D and, before that, canonical and unity? Where's the respect for the freedom of the people putting their heart and soul into those developments? As I see it, they're doing no more than exercising the very freedom the community shouts from the rooftops, but they seem to draw a lot of flack for doing so. If the rest don't like the direction those folks are going in,

then like me, they can exercise their freedom and simply use or not use the distro that included those changes. Ultimately, wouldn't the market decide? How can a fraternity that preaches freedom not respect others who exercise that freedom, or is it just that haters are going to hate? Keep up the good work, Bruce. Hallelujah, brother.

Does fraternity imply only men? I think the system, Bruce. Hallelujah, brother. Does fraternity imply only men? I think the system is just old people learning about something new. I think what it comes down to is the Linux community, while it does believe in all of those things, it also believes in technical

merits. And I think the problem is that when people see technical merits, like science facts, it's hard concrete facts. And so to them, if you don't believe in something, you're not accepting fact. And so then people want to try to convince you to accept fact for whatever reason they have invested in it. Do you guys think I'm on to something or is that just cray? I don't know. I wonder.

Yeah. So we don't know, Bruce, but we think it's just human nature. And don't worry. Everywhere there's a noisy person, there's five or six other people that aren't saying anything at all, that aren't making a big fuss. And it's just human nature, and it's just part of the fun. Just part of the fun. All right. So let's move on.

We'll keep going. In fact, you know, does anybody in the mumble room have any thoughts on how to get people to simmer down? And I know, Popey, this is an old whipping horse of yours, right? I have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, of course. All right. Well, we've got a whole batch of interviews to get into, so let's do one more sponsor spot before we get to those.

I want to thank DigitalOcean. Let's go over to DigitalOcean.com right now, everybody. DigitalOcean.com! And use the promo code UNPLUGGEDOCTOBER. We've got a little bit of time left, so why not go apply to your account right now? Unplugged October, all one word, lowercase. So what is DigitalOcean? Ange, do you know what DigitalOcean is?

Yeah. It's digital oceans that make sense. Here, read that top-loaded theory. Go for it. I want to hear how you do. DigitalOcean is a simple cloud hosting provider dedicated to offering the most intuitive and easy way to spin up a cloud server. Hey-o! That's right. And users can get started in less than 55 seconds.

Some of you are doing about 30 seconds or so. And guess what? Pricing plans start at only $5 per month. And that's going to get you 512 megabytes of RAM, a 20 gigabyte SSD. Because they're all SSDs. What's up? One CPU and a terabyte of transfer. And DigitalOcean has data center locations in New York, San Francisco, Singapore,'re all SSDs. What's up? One CPU and a terabyte of transfer. And DigitalOcean has data center

locations in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam, and London. But Ange, I've got to tell you about that interface. It's simple. It's intuitive. And power users can replicate it on the straightforward API like you do all the time. Awesome. You're always implementing it on that API. And I want you to go over DigitalOcean right now and just check

out their interface. They've got a demo on their front page. You just scroll down a little bit and look at that UI. That's not a mock-up. That's actually what their interface looks like. That's the UI you use to spin up KVM virtual machines in data centers all over the world that you can migrate, take snapshots, do DNS management, have HTML5 console access. It's incredible. Just go look at it. Just go put your face up against the screen and just be amazed.

I am all the time. And DigitalOcean is getting even better with their new community tutorials. In fact, they'll pay you $100, $200 to write a tutorial for DigitalOcean. And don't even worry. They're going to help you hit the easy button. They've got an editing staff that will work with you to make sure you look smart and that you don't spell things wrong like I do. Right?

That's a big problem. And I understand. And DigitalOcean does too. So they've got editors that work with you. You write up a good tutorial, they're going to give you like $200 or something like that. They're going to pay you appropriately, I'm sure. If you write crap, I'll personally write in there and ask them not to pay you $200. I don't know if they'll go for it, but that'll be my mission. So do a good job. But they'll work with you, so that way it's great, I'm sure. ocean.com right now apply the promo code unplugged october spin up a droplet and try something out gitlab wordpress bit torrent sync own cloud seven all of these things that we talk about all the time docker core os anything like that go have some fun and educate yourself because you can do it for two months for absolutely free when you use our promo code unplugged october you can get a

ten dollar credit it's a pretty great service i've had them for a while now they run some of the back-end infrastructure for jupiter broadcasting a lot of the back-end infrastructure for michael dominic from quarter radio for all his clients it's a really great service digital ocean.com and thank you to digital ocean for sponsoring linux unplugged okay so now that we now uh now we got our sponsors out of the way we can get a uh whole batch of interviews done. So let's just jump right into them. So Seagull happened October 24th and the 25th. It's a grassroots technical conference dedicated to spreading awareness and knowledge about GNU slash Linux and the community. And also free Libre open source software all around that and even hardware.

So it is kind of new, right, Eric? It's like what? It's second or third year? This was his second year, yes. Okay, yeah. So it's just getting started. Eric, how many people would you say? About 200 people there or what?

I would say about 100 to 200, yeah, easily. All right, well, our first interview is Aaron Peterson. He's actually a friend of the show. We met him when we went to our Kubuntu users meetup, and he's the one that put the plasma cake together. So we'll start with that, and then we'll move right along. Hi, guys. I'm here with Aaron Peterson of Free Geek Seattle,

and I would just like him to tell us a little bit more about it. Hi. Free Geek Seattle is an organization that will help take old computers and find a good home for them. We'll install ethical software on it, and we'll teach and train people how to do that at some of our workshops. So if you need a computer, you can come to our workshops on Saturdays

at the Filipino Community Center, and we will help you work on the computer and at the end of the program you can end up with the computer so he specifically goes out there and his community works on these old computers that people turn in and a lot of times he says people will turn in computers and they'll be missing the hard drive or they'll be missing ram like people will gut them and then bring them in so they kind of rebuild them, repurpose them, they get them loaded up with Linux and LibreOffice, and

you can come in there and work on these computers and then you get to leave with the computer. That was pretty neat. That is really awesome. So our next interview is Art from Pogo Linux. And Eric, if you have anything you want to say, I don't need to just jump in, but I thought we'd do these first ones kind of quick because they're kind of our short ones. Oh yeah, totally. This is Art from Pogo Linuxinux, and Eric, if you have anything you want to say, I don't need to just jump in, but I thought we'd do these first ones kind of quick because they're kind of our short ones.

Oh, yeah, totally. This is Art from PogoLinux, who we visited a while back for HowToLinux. Now, you guys might remember from HowToLinux episode three, we last spoke to people at PogoLinux. So I'm here with Art from PogoLinux. I'm here to talk to him about some of the developments they've had since then. So, Art, what can you tell us? Well, we've been busy with a lot of stuff. A lot of new marketing things, including this show.

We love Siegel. We love supporting the open source community. Right. It wasn't too far for you to go across the water either. Yeah. So what kind of products can you highlight for us real quick to tell us about people who might be interested in some servers? Oh, yeah. I mean, we have our huge line of servers and storage solutions

and all the way up from a tiny 1U to a full-on cluster, whatever you need. But the fun thing to talk about right now, at least I find it fun, so maybe you will too, is we're working on a silent workstation. We can't really say it's silent, but it's so close to silent that it might as well be. Like in terms of decibels, what are we talking about? Like right around the noise floor of a typical room, like below a conversation level, below a whisper almost. So we're talking if, you know, sometimes, I'm assuming it's water-cooled, is that correct? Absolutely.

Okay, so in terms of water-cooled solutions, sometimes they sound a little bit like a refrigerator. I've heard that a few times with some very quiet fans on top. How does it compare to that? It's even quieter because it's a newer setup. And it is designed to be as close to silent as they can possibly manage. And the fans are all specifically designed for that. And I think it's pretty impressive. Hey, Ange, I want a water-cooled workstation.

Yeah, that would be awesome. Hey, I noticed LinuxFest Northwest was there. That's awesome. Were they? Yeah, that was the totem pole right there. Yeah, that was them, wasn't it? Yeah, they were there. They were right next to Pogo Linux,

and they were there just to support Seagull and try to help them get going. Yeah, well, you know what else is cool, Eric? Pogo Linux was in Ohio at the same time. Yeah, they were there just to support Seagull and try to help them get going. Yeah, well, you know what else was cool, Eric? Pogalinux was in Ohio at the same time. Yeah, they were. Yeah, Art was telling me that. Yeah, they had a booth there. So they really hustle, I guess.

Yeah. So they didn't happen to have that workstation there for demo, did they, Eric? They did not have it there for demo. They pretty much just had the table with a bunch of stickers and brochures, but that's about it. I'm all about silent. I'm all about that silent these days. So I'll be curious to see how that goes.

And they're in our neck of the woods, so maybe we can go down there and see what's up in a little while. Yeah. Okay, so if you know anything about me, you know I love the idea of people taking the power of the internet on their own. A mesh network. You don't need the man. You don't need Comcast. We'll all just individually connect to each other and blanket the world in mesh networking.

Maybe. And I guess you've got to start somewhere. So why not in Seattle? So here's Dan from the Seattle MeshNet. Hi, I'm here with Dan Ryan of the Seattle MeshNet, and he's going to tell us a little bit more about that. So Dan, what can you tell us about the Seattle MeshNet, how it works, and whatnot? Well, basically, the Seattle MeshNet is a community-owned and run network, you know, and, you know, we use wireless radios like this one right here, you know, to go and create a

network, you know, between households and, you know, office buildings, you know to go and create a network you know between households and you know office buildings you know um you know we use a routing protocol called cjdns to hook it all together you know and that's basically what it is you know cool so i'm what way i'm understanding this is basically a bunch of networks just kind of communicating with each other so that you're not having to rely so much on one single internet service provider is that correct exactly you know that's basically what we do you know um there's multiple gateways to the internet that you can use you know people who offer their business class connections you know no cost you know and the eventual idea is you'll have people you know

operating their own little i guess you could call them ISPs. For a couple bucks a month, you can get an IP and a certain port speed or something like that. Okay. So you're using these devices. It's honestly just people's household networks and business networks all just kind of combined into one gigantic network. Are there any security implications with these? Well, it's not really routing their current IPv4 or IPv6 network out to the general community. We have a routing application called CJDNS, and it's actually a full network suite.

It assigns you an IPv6 address using a public-private key pair, and it goes and provides you a secure way to communicate with other nodes by, you know, using Solsa 20 encryption to, you know, create encrypted links, you know, between you and whoever you connect to, you know. And so it's encrypted end-to-end, and it's, you know, fairly fast and reliable, you know. On some of, you know, our worst links, you know, we've tested IPv4 versus CJDNS, and, you know, the latency difference, you know, one will, you know, take 20 milliseconds, the other will take two. Right, okay, so how much would something like this cost to get up and running for the average person, like average household? Generally, you know, around $100,

you know, right around that mark. Yeah, it's not too bad price-wise, you know, around $100, you know, right around that mark. Yeah, it's not too bad price-wise, you know, to get set up and running. Okay. And if anybody wanted more information, where would they go to find out? Go to seattlemesh.net, you know, and check out our map at seattlemesh.net slash map. So there might be a drinking game there. Oh, gee. slash.net for slash math. So there might be a drinking game there.

Let's not troll our guests. So did you get a good picture of the hardware, Eric? Like, were you able to hold it? I was able to hold it. They had some of it right there. It's just really a white box. They have two different ones. One was a small white box.

One was a larger white box. I'm assuming that had to do with whether or not it had more output or not. So the idea would be I put one in my place. My neighbor puts one in his place. Neighbor down there puts one in her place. And then we just all kind of extend the network down there. Exactly. I'm ready. My body is ready for that because I feel like we've got to come up with something as an alternative, even if it's not super great.

got to come up with something as an alternative, even if it's not super great. The trick with that is making sure that everybody around you is on board with it. Otherwise, it doesn't work at all. Right. Yes, very much. But, you know, it could be worth it. If censorship and copyright protection, all this stuff makes the web a mess, even if we had to have a mesh network that was like 2G speeds by today's standards, I think if we could send text and audio, it would be totally, totally worth it.

Well, exactly. Even IRC or what have you, that doesn't take much bandwidth at all. Plus, you figure things like torrents and stuff like that, maybe, I don't know how that would work in a mesh network setup. I know there's other mesh networking initiatives out there. I just don't know a lot about them. All you know is aside, he was really good at speaking. He didn't seem nervous at all, even though that know is a side. He was really good at speaking. He didn't seem nervous at all, even though that's a nervous stick. It was really good.

And I can't remember who mentioned it, but there was a MeshNet presentation at Ohio LinuxFest as well. It's a topic that we continue to poke at, but I don't feel like anything ever really gains traction. I just think it's really crazy that they were in two places at once. But I guess we were too. Yeah, that's true. Technically. But doesn't it seem like it can't just be something that's in the house. It almost seems like it has to be something that's on the mobile too.

So that way everybody moving around is contributing to the network. I think that helps. Yeah, they didn't really have anything like that. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. So Eric got a chance to talk to Liz Rush. She's part of, I think it's called ADA?

It's called the ADA Initiative. The ADA Initiative. And she's going to tell us about that. I'm here with Liz Rush of, well, she's going to have to tell you a little bit more about it. It's a really cool program for women getting into technology. So here's Liz to tell you more about that. Hi, yeah. I'm Liz. I'm here from Ada Developers Academy,

which is a new program in Seattle. It's a year-long, non-profit, tuition-free code school for women. And it is a program that's really industry-driven. We have companies that sponsor students and what we do is six months of in-classroom intensive training. We work on projects in groups and pairs. We do test-driven development, pair programming, we learn agile methodologies and then after six months we move on to internships at local companies that have sponsored and when they're in the internships the students are working in small development teams, After six months, we move on to internships at local companies that have sponsored.

And when they're in the internships, the students are working in small development teams writing production code. So it's kind of like an apprenticeship program where they're actively doing the job that they're being trained to do. And really what the point of the program is is to be an alternative hiring pipeline for companies who are facing a shortage of developers and having difficulties attracting female talent that's huge yeah and then it's also a great way to get really bright intelligent women into technology when it hasn't been something that they've been exposed to before so a lot of us i was in the first cohort of women to go through the ada program and a lot of us had I was in the first cohort of women to go through the ADA program, and a lot of us had interest in technology and clearly the aptitude, but we hadn't ever thought of it as something that was an option for us.

And many of us come from backgrounds in humanities and liberal arts, and those skills have actually transferred really well into our new careers as developers because we can bring in these outside skills like public speaking, understanding users, and really kind of having a different perspective on technology. And that allows us to be really great developers. So we're out here today trying to spread the word about Ada and find new women who would be interested in participating in the program and also companies that would like to sponsor. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's a lot of information. So it looks like companies like Expedia, Zillow, I'm seeing on your sponsor sheet there.

So what kind of rate do you have of hiring? What's your hiring rate? Well, our first group of women to go through the program is actually finishing their last day at internships today. And we have 100% rate of having job offers before graduating. So that seems like a pretty neat initiative and 100% success rate. I wonder what ADA stands for because when you first said it,

I was going to say, wait, American with Disabilities Act? ADA Developers Academy. It's actually a recursive acronym. Okay. It's referring to Ada Lovelace. Yeah, it's almost certainly refers to Ada Lovelace. Yeah, okay.

That too, yeah. So this is interesting. You know, it's funny. refers to Ada Lovelace. Yeah. Okay. Back to, yeah. So this is interesting. You know, it's funny. You see mixed results in the chat room. Some people think, well, it's not necessary to have something specific just to women. But I would argue against that just based on the track record we have so far. And are the people who are saying that possibly middle class white men? Maybe.

I mean, I don't. Does it matter? Almost certainly. Yeah, of course. I suppose. Yeah. Maybe. I mean, does it matter? Almost certainly. Yeah, of course. I suppose, yeah. Because they're not affected by it. Yeah, I guess so. I think people are worried that by putting people in separate groups and giving them special treatment,

that that's almost a form of exclusion itself. And that's kind of what I wanted to get your opinion on. What do you think about that? Well, the opposite is already true in that, you know, the the industry is already dominated by white middle class men. So right. Yeah, that is already the case. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's kind of my thing. And it's that's like the the previous method obviously has failed us dramatically. So and you're of the fair sex. What do you think? I think it's cool to have a specific place for women to go to specifically learn code where I,

I know. Yeah. A lot of people are like, well, everybody should have the opportunity and everybody does have the opportunity. Women can go into other programs and whatever in colleges, but to have one place, it's about a peer group, isn't it?

I think so, and learning, and yeah. And a safe place. I think it's a good idea. Yeah. And especially, like. Knowing that you, sorry. Go ahead. No, knowing that you can go somewhere,

I mean, knowing you can go somewhere where you're not going to get leered at, letched at, you know, chatted up, asked for your phone number, where you can just get on and do the right job. Whistled and hollered at and stuff. Exactly. But not only that, but look at me. So I have a knack for technology, not at some pro level,

but I have interest in it. I've always worked on proprietary software programs, implementation and conversion, things like that. I've always done the IT for every company that I've worked for, you know, minor IT troubleshooting. But I decided when I went to college and got my four-year degree, I wanted something that I could take anywhere. I got an operations, I'm sorry. A business operations. Business administration. Bachelor's in business administration because I could go anywhere with that. But, you know, in hindsight, I have a knack for technology.

So this could be like an opportunity where I could go back. Do you feel like you just didn't even consider the technology for some reason? Or was it more of a like strategy approach? I tried to sit in a technology class in high school, as you know. And it went way over my head. And it was a technology class in high school, as you know. And it went way over my head. And it was a beginning class. It was like, what, NT4 or something? Probably back then, yeah.

So, you know, that, and yeah, and I was the only female in there. That was a little discouraging. Yeah. That did kind of make a difference for you. Yeah, it did. Yeah. So if you went into a classroom

that was maybe full of females. Yeah, I think, and particularly in the place that I'm at now, being 30, and already have my four-year bachelor's, I could do something like an all-women's code school and not feel like, I think there's an inferior-like mentality. Inferiority complex. Yeah, not necessarily intentional, but I would feel bad holding up a class of men because I'm behind. I feel like, yes, I would have the disadvantage. Do you feel like maybe as parents we could do more to encourage girls to play more with technology? And I wonder if it's like initial channeling, like, oh, no, this is for the boys and girls. I'm trying to figure out where it kind of stems from.

Because I think one of the reasons why when you were in that class in high school, you were behind is because a lot of the boys in that class had an innate, like they had self-taught to get themselves kind of to there. I don't know, because I was a little more advanced than a lot of. Sure. It's really hard because we grew up in a very rapid technology. Yeah, you were really savvy online and dial up and managed all that. Yeah, it changed really fast, too. So it's really hard to know because, yeah, I did have to keep up with it. But, yeah, I wasn't completely interested in it directly.

Yeah. All right. So another note along these same lines, Eric talked to the Seattle Attic Community Workshop. And we'll play that. I am here with the Seattle Attic Community Workshop. This is a project I've never heard of before, but I know these guys really are excited to talk to you about what they're doing. So maybe you guys can introduce yourselves. First of all.

My name is Audra. I work with the University of Washington and the Genome Sciences Department. For Linux, we use a lot of Linux on our clusters and everything. I also do open source work with DreamWidth, which also runs on Linux using Perl. Yeah.

My name's Anne, and I am currently between jobs, but I do a lot of data analysis work, so R and those sorts of things. I'm Frances. I'm working with the Wikimedia Foundation right now, and yeah, a lot of fun. Hi, I'm Paul. I use Linux at home and at work. I'm DevOps for a company called Climate.com. We have a Linux fleet on Amazon Web Services, and I do my own home stuff too. Excellent. And could you guys just tell us a little bit more about this Seattle Attic Community Workshop?

Yeah, so we felt that there was a gap in the makerspace community for an explicitly feminist makerspace. And so we're all about teaching people to make all sorts of things. And some of them are physical, but other things are getting women into doing open source coding. We've done a couple of hackathons for DreamWit,

which is an open source fork of LiveJournal. I would like to run a Git workshop at some point and get some people in to Git because I know a lot of people want to learn it, they've told me. And it can be tricky to pick up on your own because of the UI. And let's see here. Eventually, if we get the setup right, I would also like to see if I can't get a chapter of Black Girls Code to run. Yeah, around the community that we want to be working towards here isn't one where, you know, RTFM, it's write a better manual together. I like that line.

It's not RTFM, it's write a Better Manual Together, which I think is inclusive. I like that a lot. It's more in the spirit of open source, too. Yeah, definitely. I always talk to them a lot afterwards, and they were a pleasure to talk to. Yeah, so tell me more about them. Well, basically, they have a very feminist bent to their organization. Sure.

So that's one thing to keep in mind. organization. So that's one thing to keep in mind. But also, they seem to really be wanting to proactively go out there and help other communities become more woman-friendly, which is great. I think that's a huge thing. So they'll work with other established communities and just sort of, what, maybe advise and consult a little bit? Yes, exactly. And they gave me all sorts of contact information, which I think was great. Cool. So, Eric, are you going to go back next year?

Absolutely. Cool. I think it was a great experience. It was a little bit on the smaller side, which was great. Got to know quite a few people, some of which we'll probably have to make sure is in the show notes. Yes, we have a lot more in the show notes, including Eric recorded some of the talks.

We have the audio recording sessions for those. And he also included the YouTube page where some of the videos are posted. So there's a lot more of Siegel in our show notes this week. Correct, yeah. And it's going to be, I honestly think it has a lot of potential. The venue at Seattle Central Community College, not the biggest place, but it has only room to grow in terms of amount of people getting involved and whatnot.

I feel almost selfish that we have so many great events just in our neck of the woods. I know. I know. Yeah. I know. I want to do all the things. I know, right? Like, I kind of want to go to this next year. Yeah, I think we need to – well, we definitely need to have some swag present. I didn't realize he was going. I would have sent him with some swag. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Next year. Yeah, next year we need to, well, we definitely need to have some swag present. I didn't realize he was going.

I would have sent him with some swag. Yeah, oh, yeah, next year. Yeah, next year for sure, yeah. And it sounded like maybe they'll try to schedule it so it doesn't happen the same weekend as Ohio Linux Fest, right, Eric? Yeah, they're thinking about it. It's definitely something in the works. I did talk to Adam from, he was one of the organizers, and he said that they understand that there's a timing issue, and they do want to do some things to address that. Very good.

Well, Eric, thank you for going down there and grabbing that for us. It was great to kind of see how that – and I'm glad we're jumping in on it too while it's still kind of in the early days so that way we can kind of follow along as they expand, which we will do. All right. So we've got the crew here that was at – well, some of the crew that was here at Ohio Linux Fest. We've got a little more to talk about, plus share some stories and things like that. So why don't I take a minute and thank Linux Academy. Go over to Linux Academy right now. Won't you check them out and get yourself certified?

That's right. Go to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Check them out. They've got all kinds of great courses and features for you to take. They have step-by-step video courses that you can download and take offline. Check them out. They've got all kinds of great courses and features for you to take. They have step-by-step video courses that you can download and take offline. Audio as well.

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and they spin them up on demand when the courseware requires it. They've got learning plans, so you can automatically select how much availability you have, and they'll generate the courseware with your time budgets, reminders to help you keep on top of if you're a busy person. I heard from so many of you out there recently that have really been checking it out and have been super impressed. I think the number one thing I hear from folks at Checkout Linux Academy is, yeah, I heard what you said, Chris. It sounded really great. Then I went and signed up and now I'm blown away and I'm never leaving. And that's the best part about your Linux Academy subscription. You're always going to get the new stuff. They're always adding new courseware constantly. You have a group of educators, Linux enthusiasts,

and programmers that have come together to create Linux Academy specifically for the Linux and open source community. And now they're starting to reach out into other areas that you might find yourselves. Perhaps what you might consider a quote-unquote dev-op. Well, they've got whole sets of courseware for you. Or you need to migrate something to AWS to help you scale. They'll walk you through scenario-based training so at the end of your training you feel like you've actually done it because you have.

They'll spin up an EC2 instance, S3, all of it for you. They've got live streams and videos so you can ask the educators questions directly. They've got a powerful community that'll help keep you motivated. There's so much great stuff. When I'm over there, I'm constantly checking out the new stuff just to see what piques my interest, to see how far I get, and to see if

I still got the skills. But if I was working for a 9-to-5, this is what I'd be doing to help check that box on my next review to show that I'm progressing. And if I was still contracting, this is how I would keep my skills sharp, even when I'm not working with a client that's particularly scratching any itch that might be up and coming. Linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Save. Why don't you go over to Linux Academy right now, check them out. I talk to them from time to

time about some of the things they have coming up, and I cannot wait to tell you I'm so impressed. So there's never been a better time to go to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged and save 33% on your quarter. That's a great deal. And a big thank you to Linux Academy for sponsoring Linux Unplugged. Okay, so, Colonel Linux, you still here? I haven't heard you for a while. I'm still here.

Good, all right, good. And just here, we don't have Producer Q5 or Blaster, so that's too bad. Too bad Blaster couldn't join us. I see he's up and quiet listening. There you go. Hey there, Blaster. There he is. You have audio with you, Blaster? Yes, I do. Okay, very good. So it's not great audio, so we won't talk too much. But it's okay. We're glad you're here, Blaster. Blaster joined us as part of the crew at Ohio Linux Fest, and he drove up in style. He was like a boss. What? What are you going to say? The Instagram picture of the crew. Oh, of the crew?

Yeah, I should totally pull that up, huh? Yeah. Yeah, that was a great one. Yeah, Ang got a group selfie. And you know what everybody noticed from that group selfie? What? Q5's Mohawk. Yeah.

Who couldn't notice that thing? That was awesome. And Noah's, of course, Google Glass. Oh, and his boss. Yeah, his boss status right there. Yeah. So the crew got in throughout a, of course, Google Glass. Oh, and his boss. Yeah, his boss status right there. So the crew got in throughout a couple of days, but Ange and I got there Friday. And we immediately went out to the Tilted Skirt, which is, how would you describe the Tilted Skirt, Ange? It is like...

It's like Hooters, but better. Well, it's the cute little plaid skirt with a matching, not bra. Bikini top. Bikini top. There you go. With the schoolgirl white, you know, Britney Spears. Short jacket. Yeah, short jacket that ties.

Tied underneath the bikini. Yeah, underneath the bikini. But you were pleasantly surprised that also the male wore a similar attire. Yeah, the men wore, well, it didn't show as much skin, but yes, they did wear kilts. Yeah, yeah. So we get into town, and that's where we went. That was our first impression of Columbus, Ohio,

was the tilted kilt. I'd never been to one before. Me either. And the food was actually pretty good. Yeah. The drinks weren't so strong, though. No. No, they were pretty weak drinks.

Which is weird. We're like, Angie and I, so this was in like six years, the first time we've gotten out on just her and I without the kids. It wasn't really a vacation. It was work. Let me put another caveat to that. I didn't find out that I even really liked alcohol until about three years ago after Abby was done breastfeeding.

That's when I started drinking wine. Anyway, so yeah. So six years ago, I wasn't interested in alcohol anyway. But we haven't been out. So that was night one. Night two was crazy. Night two, downtown Columbus went Halloween. And like I believe all of the adults in the city were there. They dressed up.

There was crazy costumes. They shut down streets. It ended up making us drive around in circles for a while. Well, yeah. Well, some of that was Noah's fault, I guess. But no, no judgy, Noah. No judgy. It was all good.

But it was a really good time. Noah, you go to these fests all the time. Let's start with you. What was your impressions of Ohio Linux Fest overall? Well, first of all, we'll start out with saying this. I am not shy about admitting that I am, in fact, directionally challenged. Who, you?

Eric, you've never been in a car with me. How would you know? Yeah, I have. Oh, that's right. Back in Portland. So I judge every conference. I think the guy from the Ohio open source group said it best.

I judge a conference, its quality, based on how many ThinkPads I see. Right. And I saw very few MacBooks, comparatively speaking, and a ton of ThinkPads, which made me really happy. And those ThinkPads are running Linux. Yeah, a lot of actual Linux users there, which was a nice change. You're right. What do you think about the size, Noah? So I thought that the size was a little disappointing based on reports that I'd heard from other people.

And it was funny because all the people that said, oh, well, Ohio is this great thing and you have to go to it and this, that, and the other, were people from Self who had met at Self who came to Ohio, but they're also itself, in addition to a bunch of other cool people fromself. Yeah. Yeah, well, in my experience, you know, LinuxFest has anywhere between 40 and 60 or so booths, usually, right? And this place had, like, 15. Yeah. But they focused more on talks. Like, they had a fairly full talk schedule, at least for Saturday.

I thinkiday was a little sparing uh sparingly yeah saturday was pretty good but sunday was definitely yeah yeah saturday was good yeah yes for sure sunday was spare it was just mostly tests yeah uh i i concur with everything you guys are saying it was smaller than i expected based on sort of the feedback i'd gotten from the audience yep however a lot of people came because they knew we were there, which is really cool. And that's my point is to me, it sort of demonstrated a pretty fundamental lack of marketing on. Absolutely. Yeah. Because a lot, I would say 250, 300 people told me I heard about it on last. I didn't know about it until I heard about it on last.

Now, when you figure there might have been, well, I don't know, 600, 700, 800 people there, that is a ridiculous number of people that did not know about it before the show, and they need to market better. Yep, yep. I think some of the people that had booths there saw enough Linux Action Show jackets,

Unfilter Coder Radio shirts, last 300 shirts, that they know where they need to go now. We did have some bugs in our hotel room. Lady bugs. Yeah. It was infested. They were our pets.

It was not infested. Well, it was actually. It was, too. There was maybe, towards our last day, there was maybe a dozen in our room. In one area or throughout the entire room? Well, you know, kind of all over. They were mainly in the window area, but they're on our nightstand and on the mirror, the lamp, the ceiling.

I didn't mind, though. I really didn't actually mind. Ladybugs, right? Yeah, my wife's got a big phobia. We wouldn't have done it. Chris kept trying. Chris's idea, you've seen a lampshade, right? There's like four sides of a lampshade.

The top and the bottom are open. Chris's idea to get rid of the ladybugs was to insert them into the top of the lampshade. And I don't know exactly what he thought was happening, but he kept getting continually shocked when they fell back out the bottom side right back to where they were when he picked them up. I just want them to crawl around on the inside and then see their shadows through the lampshade. Well, it didn't work. They did it on their own from time to time.

Angie was worried they'd live in her mouth. That's what she was worried about. Thankfully, I was so exhausted from being up at 4 a.m. on Friday, 5 a.m. on Saturday, that I fell asleep so fast Saturday night. I didn't even have time. So getting back to kind of more on the conference itself, the best thing I think I saw there, other than the two little 11-year-old kids

that I think I got to switch to Linux, was Ruth's talk. Yes. Which I know, and that's coming up a little bit later in a different show or something, I'm sure. Well, do they want us posting a keynote talk like that? Yeah. They recorded them themselves.

Okay. Do we have a different audio source for that one? No, unfortunately. Okay. All right. themselves. Okay. Do we have a different audio source for that one? No, unfortunately. Okay. All right. Sorry. Okay. But that's pretty good for being 20 feet across the room, right?

I watched it, though. Ruth gave an incredible talk. It was really good. So one of the things that she hit on was that as a community, we go to all these different conferences like OSCON and LinuxCon, and you can't find an example of somebody using Linux or open source. And like she actually said in her presentation, I will walk up to a booth and ask, is there anything open about your project that you say is open source and is at an open source conference? And she's a person that actually runs Linux on her laptop, on her desktop. She

works for a Linux organization, but she believes in the concept of open source. It's not just she believes in making money off of open source. Right. And Ruth, she works at Red Hat, and she's part of the PyDora project. And she went up there, and I thought she gave some... You know what I liked about Ruth's talk, and I think this is something that made it really connect with me.

And so I don't know when we're going to play it, because it's long, it's about 30 minutes minutes but we will try to play it soon uh and she talks about she she draws parallels to history and that to me was the most powerful thing is she can kind of demonstrate in some ways we've been here before and we have we have fought these battles they were named different things and they were about different things but the the moral of the stories remain the same as they are today and that to me was sort of the most powerful thing about what she did because when you look at these historical things and you see how they resolve it's so obvious with 2020 uh you know hindsight and so you comply you can apply that same mindset to the problems we're

dealing with today and you can see she just nailed it so many times so that was really good and the other thing about ruth is she was extremely dynamic. Like she had a moment where she had to look something up on her computer so she engaged the audience and got them to sort of vamp for her while she was filling time. And she just was so good at handling questions. Like somebody would just ask her a random question about patents, and she just had a great answer for that, I thought, and I was super impressed by that. And that was really, I thought, where Ohio Linux Fest shined.

And they also had Ken Starks do a closing talk, which was really interesting as well. Blaster, did you have anything that you wanted to particularly talk about? I don't know. The streets closing down was kind of annoying but uh yeah yeah i mean especially when the the one the only way to get into your hotel into the valley parking is to

drive the wrong way on a one-way because they've closed closed down the only other street you can use to get to your hotel but it also kind of makes you feel like a ninja. How about the fest? I didn't really experience too much of it. Walking around was a little bit, once you walk four blocks to get directly across the street, it's a little bit of a pain to walk everywhere else. But no, the booths were cool. I checked out most of them.

The swag was nice, especially those little Nerf guns. And, you know, it seemed like everybody was pretty friendly and low-key. That was great. Oh, yeah, everybody was definitely friendly. You know, because there's those conferences that feel a little stressful, a little high-strung like OSCON versus something like LinuxFest or Ohio LinuxFest that felt a little more relaxed. You know, one thing that I did notice about a difference between LinuxFest and this fest

is that this one felt like more people were driving just a couple hours to stop by, see it, and leave. Yes. Whereas with LinuxFest, people flying in and they're staying in a hotel. Right, yes. So while there's that, like you'd think if you're staying in a hotel by LinuxFest Northwest, you'd be casual and not rushed and stressed or whatever. But I felt like there was less. People were more casual.

Because they were on their own time. Yeah, they were on their own schedule or something. Yeah, it was really interesting. But there were a lot of people nearby that just drove anywhere between two and eight hours. Yeah. And it was always a good sign. Like, you get in there and, you know, they're using Linux there at the Fest organizers themselves. You check in at a Linux box.

All of that's always a good sign, too, for a conference. So it was, all in all, a great trip. It was a little smaller than I expected, but once I adjusted that, I appreciated the fact that it gave us the time to connect with people. I met a lot of people. It was really, really neat to meet that many people, and I want to do it more often. So we're already talking about the next conferences we're going to go to. Obviously, LinuxFest Northwest.

You can put that in your calendar. We're talking very seriously about scale. I think we want to do that. Chase might even want to join us for scale. Self. Self sounds like it's a must-do as well. More and more events. So we're going to just

try to get our shows covering more and more of this stuff for those of you who can't make it. I think what I've discovered in these trips is that this aspect is more important than I think I've appreciated for an open source community. Actually connecting with people, talking about these problems, seeing how people are using technology and the amazing, interesting things people are doing. You know, I saw a project that was actually running on a Sega Genesis. Somebody's, you know, making software today for a Sega Genesis and running their own custom stuff. And they're using open source tools to do things that I never even thought people would

ever have a desire to do. And then you see it and you realize why sometimes we have such strange and esoteric things. And it was really fun to kind of see practical implementations and uses of Linux, open source, talk to people. I talked to some sysadmins about the things they're struggling with. We shared some war stories, all of that. Just that

level of connecting when the community itself is inherently a collaboration community, I think is super important. So I want to attend more of them. So I think we're going to do that. Definitely. Any other closing community, I think, is super important. So I want to attend more of them. So I think we're going to do that. Definitely. Any other closing thoughts, you guys, on Ohio? No?

Were there any biohazard suits? Only for Halloween. What? No? Biohazard suits. Oh, no. We did see... No, but you know, funny story. When we did have to run to our connecting flight um we both like because we had so much adrenaline and we had just gotten off a flight so our legs weren't working like super well and we had our

bags yeah we had our bags we were coughing like crazy once we got on the plane for about an hour yeah so and like i immediately like into the second cough i'm like oh god i bet the guy next to me you know thinks that I'm like contagious or something. And so I'm like, look, I'm not sick. We just had to run. And like it's causing like an asthmatic adrenaline like reaction. Yeah. Yeah.

So it'll stop soon, hopefully. Yeah. It was nuts. And I was glad we had like a couple hours to rest on a plane. Yeah. Four and a half. Yeah. Yeah.

That is true. So, yeah, I'd say if you've if you've considered it, go. And if you can make it a business expense even better or get your work to pay for it. Yeah. Yeah. That is true. So yeah, I'd say if you've, if you've considered it, go. And if you can make it a business expense, even better or get your work to pay for it. There's a lot of people that have done that, especially at OSCON, but even a few here at Ohio and it was neat to see Columbus. I don't know what, I still don't know what dot in the I in Ohio is, but. Faux Ohio. Faux Ohio it is. And we might have some more. Do you think we'll have a little more in the faux show? Speaking of faux.

And we might have some more. Do you think we'll have a little more in the Faux Show? Speaking of Faux. Yeah, because we're doing Jacket Awards on the 2nd, which is this Sunday. And, yeah, for a second there, I thought I was on last. The Linux Action Show Jackets pictures in the Faux Show following Linux Action Show on Sunday. And we'll show some more pictures and stuff like that from our trip. I've got some pictures that aren't on the Instagram feed. Me too.

Just a couple, but yeah. Yeah. So we'll do some more stuff in there too. So we'll have a little itsy bitsy more Ohio stuff just from the community aspect in the faux show this Sunday, which will immediately follow the Linux Action Show on the live stream. So tune in for that if you want any more goodies.

I think that's everything we have for today. I'm going through our list right now to make sure, but check out the show notes for more clips from Siegel, including some of the talks, some of the videos of the keynotes, and we have two more things in the kitty that I really want to get from Ohio. One is Ruth's talk

that Noah and I were talking about, and the other is an interview that Noah did with Ken Moore, who's creating the Lumina desktop for PCBSD. It's a brand new desktop, and I think we'll probably fit that into this Sunday's Linux Action Show to get a little tour

of the Lumina desktop. So we'll have the OpenSUSE review this Sunday. And then, I think maybe we'll put at the end of the show or something like that, the walkthrough of the Lumina desktop, which I believe producer Q5Sys is currently trying to get to work on Puppy Linux. Just a little teaser.

I got to see Ken play around with it a little bit, and he showed me some stuff, and it looks really nice. Yes, yeah, it's very cool. And the integration of ZFS features is super sweet. It's going to make us Linux users totally jelly, so be prepared for that. All right, well, that'll bring us to the end of today's episode, and we're going to get out of here.

If you want to get a hold of us, go over to jupiterbroadcasting.com, click that contact link, and then choose Linux Unplugged from the drop-down. Or go to linuxactionshow.reddit.com and send us in your feedback. Don't forget to check this week's faux show out

for even more coverage. And tune in on Sunday for the big show for our review of OpenSUSE. And come back next Tuesday for a brand new edition of Linux Unplugged. We do this show at 2 p.m. Pacific.

You can go over to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar to have our robots convert that for you. It's the only thing we allow them to do. So please give them a purpose. Visit jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar because every millisecond that goes by is an eternity to them. So don't torture them any longer. jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar.

LinuxActionShow.reddit.com Alright, Matt, I'll see you on Sunday, okay? Sounds good. See you then. Alright, everyone. Well, thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Linux Unplugged. We'll see you right back here next Tuesday. Thank you. Chris, you guys should come over to Europe. I know, I know. Boy, yeah.

You've got to convince the boss here, Poppy. I think that might be a milestone. The biggest European conference is FOSDEM, probably, which is beginning of February next year. That's way too soon. Darn it. I know. Plus we have Scale and LinuxFest.

Yeah, we do not have the funds for Europe that soon. I want to so bad, though. What is the name of the fest again? Can you type it in the chat? FOSDEM. F-O-S-D-E-M. FOSDEM. Oh, okay. It's like Germany or something? Brussels. It's been going years and years and years. It's a university in Brussels.

It's a fantastic place. jbtitles.com, jbtitles.com. So, Angela, I got a question for you. Yeah. I didn't want to bring this up on air, but... You are right now. You know that, right? But now the show's over. Now you can go cut this stuff out,

and it won't be weird, right? Oh, sure. Okay, so here's my question. You said that you felt... You said you'd feel uncomfortable leading a group of men in, you know, in some sort of a technology class or something like that, right? No, not leading. Okay, teaching, holding back.

Holding back is what she said. Yeah, holding, like, yeah, I feel like I. They would be ahead of you? Yeah, that I'm coming in, yeah, without as much knowledge or. Oh, okay. And so I wouldn't, I would, knowledge. I feel better about holding back a group of women because they probably... I don't know.

That's what I was getting at. That's what I was getting at. So right there. Don't you think that that is part of the problem? No. Here's what you're saying. You're saying that we need a women's group because women are being pushed aside

by men from technology but at the same time then you say well I wouldn't feel bad holding back women because I think that they're less technically inclined no no no that's not what she said I feel like the environment

I think that women learn technology at a different pace than men possibly i think too there's a difference is that uh those organizations sort of recognize that a lot of women are coming from a beginner position more so than some of the people that are going into the more standard educational courses so like standard education is sort of geared for people that are further along in the process where a lot of women now are going into the more standard educational courses. So like standard education is sort of geared for people that are further along in the process where a lot of women now are going, you know what, this is something I'm interested in,

but I'm starting at more of a square zero and these organizations are more geared to handle that. I understand what you're saying though, Noah. It is a hard position to be in to advocate for one thing and at the same time you're kind of supporting. Admitting, not admitting, but yeah, sort of like. You're like, yeah. Condoning a line of thought.

If you're the only woman in the class, it's quite possible that the men in the room will be patronizing and condescending towards you if you don't keep up with them. Whereas it's almost certainly the case that if you're in a room full of women, that won't happen. I guess my question, Pope Poppy, is why do you

assume that she wouldn't be able to keep up with them? I didn't. She did. Yeah. Okay. That's fair, I guess. I guess it would be situational, I suppose. So the thing is, you know, I know there are ways to advance in classes based on some

tests or talking to an instructor, but a lot of the guys, I think think that are going into beginning technology classes have a lot of the knowledge and i don't yeah you know maybe in advanced courses or specialized courses that would be a different story you know that could be more mainstream like once it's a specialty. All right. So Ohio Linux Fest and Siegel Roundup are currently – that's really long. When is DST? I think it's this Sunday, right? Don't we switch over to this Sunday?

We fall back? That's correct. On the second, yes. On the second. So it always screws with Lass. So, Matt, prepare your brain for that. All right. Because that always – you know, Lass always takes that one because it always happens

on a Sunday. So I'm going to warn you guys now. Sunday is my wife's birthday and she has requested a tech-free day so I will be incommunicado. Aw, a tech-free day.

Yeah. I'll just do what I do when I tell her. Oh, never mind. Okay. Go to the Jupiter Broadcasting Instagram. Alright,

jbtitles.com, everybody go vote. We got some new late-minute titles coming in while I go look at the Instagram feed here. You need one of those no phones. Oh, yeah, we got some. So there is our children in a wheelbarrow with my hair. And I think Belly looks the best.

I think little Belly looks the best there in the middle. Oh, my God, that's cute. That's great. That's great. There you go. They're daddy's hair. Although I think you could have got a better hair still, but that's fine. That's fine. The hair doesn't like it.

That is awesome. That is actually really good. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's see where the boats. Got some last minutes to suggest Seagulf. Seagull 2014.

Linux Equality. Angela Goes Open Source. Ohio Linux and Seagull 2014 Linux Equality Angela Goes Open Source Ohio Linux and Seagull Coverage Digital Ocean That Makes Sense I like that one Ohio Foe Failed Adrenal Gland Equals No Energy

Thank you Eric You get it still Thank you Yes I do Thank you I took basic health in high school I know I shouldn't have opened the show

With a health joke I shouldn't have opened the show With a health joke I just got this have opened the show with a health joke. I just got this look from Ange like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, it was. I was like, really?