LINUX Unplugged - Episode 71: Fedora Takes the Lead | LUP 71

Episode Date: December 17, 2014

Our virtual LUG reviews Fedora 21 & why we’ve just witnessed one of the most ambitious transformation of any Linux distro of 2014.Plus Dustin Kirkland from Canonical answers if Ubuntu Snappy could be the future of the entire Ubuntu project & what’s coming soon from the Xonotic project.

We've got to get real. We've got to talk about something more important, and that's beer. And I want to know if you guys have seen Brewie. It's a fully automated brewing machine with a compact design that runs Linux. And yes, this was one of my runs Linux, but I got to talk to you. I got to share it with you guys. Look at this. It's on Indiegogo. $109,000 raised already of a goal of $100,000 with 46 days left. So they're already at 109% with 46 days left. And I want to play this for you because this is the most magical machine ever invented by mankind. And I'm really excited.

Until now. That's why we created Brewy, the first fully automated home brewery. Just place the ingredients into the machine. Scan the RFID card that comes with the ingredients and that's it. Brewery takes care of the rest exactly like a master brewer would do. Brewery is perfect for beginners and experts alike. Experiment, modify recipes or create new ones. Set the temperature

for mashing and loitering. Choose your own ingredients, set different times for adding hops or choose one of the 23 other parameters for your brew. With Brewery, you can literally brew On the, right on the phone. Are you seeing this? An online recipe database. All right. So Blaster, what do you think? Do you want to go halfsies on this with me? Because this is the most amazing invention of our lifetime. and I feel like we need to take advantage of this,

and we could easily make it a show segment. Yes, let's do this. Okay, we're doing it. I think this is so cool. I'm really excited about it. It's called Brewie. Now, here's the problem. This is why we've got to go halfsies,

because maybe we want to go thirdsies, actually. The beginner pack, 15 out of 50 claimed. Oh. $1,500. Yeah, I mean, this is a big boy rig. This is the real deal, right? I mean, you're making a lot of beer out of this thing, okay? You're controlling it with your smartphone and the damn thing runs on Linux.

I mean, let's get real. Of course it's $1,500. It should be more than that. Think about it. It runs Linux. Let me tell you about some of the specs before you get a little scared away. It's got a 4.3- inch color LCD screen on the front. It has 802.11 BG and N plus an RFID transceiver built in. It's got a USB port. This is a brewer, an automatic brewer. Okay. It can hold 20 liters,

5.2 gallons for us yanks. It takes about five to six hours to brew and then 14 days for fermentation. Five to six hours to brew and then 14 days for fermentation. That's amazing. Okay? That's worth $1,500 right there. Okay. It runs something called, and I'm not familiar with this, Pokey-based Linux. What the hell is Pokey-based Linux?

I don't know. But you manage it from Android, iOS, Windows Phone containers, 20,000-hour pumps, automatic water inlet, two, my friends, automatic hop inserters, solid-state relay controls. I'm sorry. How could we not back this? I almost feel like it's so damn expensive, but this is the most... We've got to get these people on the show. Rotten Corpse, you've got to make a note about this. We've got to get these people... Oh, you are...

Yeah, we've got to talk to these... He's on it. Maybe we can get a review unit. This is amazing. Okay. Would this bring back beer as tasty? We would have to. I mean, I think that would have...

See, they had early... See, I wish I would have jumped on this early because they had $100,000 early bird packages. This would create a competition between the brewers at LinuxFest Northwest. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. Here's what we'd want, too. The unique skin package includes all the items of the professional package.

Ooh, a professional package, yeah. That sounds like us, too. We're professionals, right? But you get to add your own logo to it. Come on, let's do this. We can put the Jupyter Broadcasting logo on there. But the professional package, check this out, includes a beginner package. Oh, hello.

These accessories include a pH meter. Jeez, amazing. One measuring cylinder, one water quality testing instrument, and one ball and hydrometer. I don't think i'm saying that right uh this is really exciting when beer and linux come together magic happens so anyways it's brewy and it's on indigo those guys at linux fest proved that yeah it's still got 46 days

left too so if you want to fund that s there is a link in the show notes gosh that's cool I really really want one man I smell a revival of a podcast you know if I tell you what guys the truth of the matter is and you know I'm not bitter but if I had Leo Laporte money

it's for people who like to mess with computers I would be just buying all kinds of crap I would just be buying crap like that all the time he does well it looks like they're based mess with computers. I would be just buying all kinds of crap. I would just be buying crap like that all the time. He does. Yeah. Well, it looks like they're based in Hungary. So regionally, they're closer to Popey and I. So I think you should have it sent to the UK and save on the shipping expenses.

All right. All right. Okay. Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's filled with the holiday GNU spirit. Well, and a little bit of Santa's rum. My name is Chris. And my name is Matt. Hey there, Matt.

So we got so much going on in today's episode. It's a little ridiculous. So I'm really excited. Coming up earlier on in the show, we're going to talk with Antibody from the Zanotic Project about something really cool coming up in my favorite open source game. But there's also some other news in gaming that we're going to get to for the holidays because there's probably going to be a big sale coming up. But later on in the show, Dustin Kirkland from Canonical comes back with some additional comments about Ubuntu Snappy potentially being the future of the Ubuntu project.

So I'll ask him about that and we'll get his insights on that. Plus, what the heck is Juju and how does it fit into the whole Ubuntu core thing? He'll answer that and what all the different packages are. And then later on in the show, it's our community review of Fedora 21. We're going to get everybody's opinion on how it's been since they've installed it. I'll give you some additional thoughts that I've had trying out Fedora 21. So it's a really, really big show. And on top of that, we've got a whole bunch of feedback, Matt.

It's a little cray, so why don't we get started. Let's clear the deck. Let's bring in the awesome Mumble Room, Goldfish, who I believe is here for his first time even for Linux Unplugged. All of you, welcome. Time-appropriate greetings, Mumble Room. Hey. Hey.

Hello. Hey. Hi. Hi. Hello, hello. It sounds like there's like three of you. You guys got to get better at that. You got to really represent.

All right. So let's get started here. Yesterday, before we go too much further here, yesterday we had something kind of exciting happen. We launched on the Coder Radio show an open source project right here on the Jupiter Broadcasting Network, GPL2. And I believe it may prove to fundamentally be the most important project for 2015. Of all open source projects, Matt. Whoa.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's called Open Your Mouth, and it's at openyourmouth.recipes. These are open source GPL2 licensed recipes from the Jupyter Broadcasting community. This is an opportunity to go out there and meet your fellow Jupyter Broadcasting developer, learn a little GitHub and Markdown in the process, and commit your recipes to one central place. Open Your Mouth, We've set it up.

Openyourmouth.recipes.com. It's open source recipes from the Jupiter Broadcasting Community. And it's actually, you know, it's kind of amazing. It's taking off in a big way. We've got breakfast, desserts, pizzas, sandwiches, sauces, different types of these things. Matt, this is already a huge hit. That's awesome. I love it.

So go to openyourmouth.recipes. Openyourmouth.recipes. And Rikai has been in there. He's been engaging with the community. And right now they're working on a pretty killer barbecue pizza. And they've merged in some of the changes. Everything's written down and marked down. So if you just want to go look at the recipe, you can read them.

And here's what we were thinking. Like we talk a lot about open source code and community and all that. But I realized there are hundreds of developers that listen to these shows that are not talking to each other, that run into jams. They get into a spot where they're stuck and they need a resource. They're not communicating even though they're all listening to the same content. spot where they're stuck and they need a resource, they're not communicating, even though they're all listening to the same content. Wouldn't it be cool if we could create a fun, sort of no-pressure way for people to connect, maybe even for folks that are not familiar with GitHub, maybe folks that want to learn Markdown or just connect with a community that's pretty cool,

but not have to know code? And that's what we've done here. It's tongue-in-cheek, but it's also a serious attempt to give people a way to connect. Also, we're encouraging people to hang out in our JupyterDev chat room. We have a dedicated JBDev chat room on GeekShed. In fact, if you want to know more about any of this, we've got a whole bunch of projects going on for the community to work on right now. If you're interested in developing code for the Jupyter Broadcasting Network, go to jbdev.community. Blaster set that up for us. jbdev.community. And it'll give you a link of resources, all of them right there, like different account information, the IRC info. Well, hello there. Hello there. And that's a great

place to start. Also, JupyterDev on the IRC is another place to start. And it's really kind of fun to see people work on this. We're launching a lot of projects in 2015, and so we're trying to get people engaged, and that's kind of just a fun way to start. And it turns out some pretty good recipes. Like, we started it yesterday, and now there's, like, more than a dozen. I think it's actually a lot more than that. I like how bacon's at the top. Oh, Matt.

Yeah. Let's not kid ourselves. And Angela and I want to submit some of our own recipes from the Fisher family. And then before we get into our feedback, which I got a great one. I'm really glad. So this is the last Linux Unplugged before Christmas. Next week we will have a new episode, but it is a best of episode. However, right now, Linux Unplugged has the least submissions for best ofs.

And I know we've had some great moments. We've had some great arguments. We've had some great interviews. We've had some, we've had like, there's some stuff we've already got on the list. Like when Wimpy released the Ubuntu Mate 14.04 live on the show, I mean, how do you top that? Like that's already on our list. But we still need your help.

At the top of the show notes, your best of submissions. Linux Unplugged, for some reason, has the least amount of submissions right now. Now, come on. We all love the Unplugged show, right? So hook us up with your submissions. Go over there. You'll find a link at the top of the show notes

if you go look at episode 71 of Linux Unplugged. We just need the episode title, a link to the episode, the time code, and what it was. And then Rikai. See, the thing is, what we're trying to do here is we're trying to give everybody time off. But the problem is, is if we don't get these submissions in, I'm afraid Rikai might start pulling the hair out of his beard. And he has a beautiful beard. And I do not want to see that happen.

Right? I mean, could you imagine, Matt, if he starts tearing it? Oh, my goodness. Right? That thing's a masterpiece. I picture him chasing us around the studio with, like, beard particles in hand, just screaming. Yeah, absolutely. When you have a content catalog as deep as ours and the shows that are as long as they are,

it is the most—just assembling a best of, just all of the formatting that goes into that is an incredible task. But he really could use your help, and we have links at the top of the show notes. You literally have, like like just a few hours. So if you're listening to this show now, please go do it because it takes days and days and days and days of work just for one single episode. And he's working on them already. He's already started. All right, let's get into our first bit of feedback. KZ650cent, a frequent chatter, emails into the show about IP fire. And this was an email I was really glad to get in towards the end of 2014 because earlier in the year I had decided Chris is going to replace the firewalls both at JB HQ, which is where the operations happen,

and JB one studios, which is where the production happens. At both ends, I wanted to replace the firewalls. My leading candidate for replacing those firewalls was PF sense. But the thing is PF senseense runs on FreeBSD, and I didn't really want to deploy FreeBSD when I do this other show called the Linux Action Show. It just didn't feel right. So I was looking around for suggestions on what I could use instead,

and I still haven't really come to a conclusion. A kernel Linux thinks I should use these MicroTik routers that look pretty compelling, and he's so far into it, he's even sent me two of them now to make sure I deploy them. And then on the other end, I've looked at a few other distributions to see if something met my needs. And I wasn't really happy with any of them until KZ650cent emails in about IPFire. He says, Chris and Matt, you've mentioned in the past about the epicness of pf sense you talk about it all the time on tech snap even but you've never mentioned

ap fire after using several firewall distros i landed on ip fire and it's awesome it's a very good project and it deserves a spotlight so i went and checked it out matt and it totally well basically kind of looks like pf sense you download the ISO, and it is a dedicated firewall distribution, and you can get a nice GUI on top of that to manage your firewall rules. It looks really nice. So, you know, I'm going to take a look at IPFire. Right now I'm leaning towards the Microtech routers or whatever they're called. Colonel X, do you have any thoughts on this?

Are you listening? No. We know he's got thoughts on it. I'm sure he does. Here's the thing. For me, and I've done a lot of soul searching for the past couple years, and I think what I've come down to is, it comes

down to this. My first priority is that something runs on Linux. Whether or not it's open source, whether or not it's... I don't mind paying for something. Steam is a perfect example. I'll pay for it, and it's not open source, but it runs perfectly on Linux, so that's my bare line. And then after that, if it's open source, even better. And after that, if it's true free software foundation specialty stuff, that's like double better. Yeah, right. But with the microtech, it meets that very bottom line.

Everything works perfectly in Linux, which I can't say is the same for Cisco. And I can do all the stuff that I could do on the microtech that I used to be able to do on Cisco, except it all works on Linux. Oh, and by the way, it's like a tenth of the price. Yeah, all right. I mean, and I like their size too. So it's something I'm going to figure out soon. I got to get this solved. I got to get this problem worked out. I've got a mess right now where my home network and the studio network are using the same IP address space. So it screws the hell out of my devices when I move between them. I cannot manage them remotely when I'm at one location or the other.

I feel like I'm in the 1990s, where TCP IP is this new thing that's really neat that I'm trying out, but I still prefer IPX. So, yeah, this is a problem I've got to solve seriously in early January, or else I think my blood pressure will suffer. All right. I'll tell you what doesn't make my blood pressure suffer.

I'll tell you what makes me feel a little bit better, and that's personal accomplishments. Seriously. And that's why Linux Academy is a great sponsor for Linux Unplugged. I can go there. I can challenge myself. I can see what interests me. And I know that Linux Academy is built by people who truly understand and know Linux.

They are Linux users themselves. They're not generic educators. They don't have everything from fixing the sync to setting up an Apache server. They're people that genuinely love and use Linux themselves. Educators, Linux users, system administrators, developers that came together and they created something they're passionate about. And that's Linux Academy. And if you go to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged, you'll get a 33% discount. And that's for the lifetime right there. Boom. Actually, I And that's for the lifetime right there. Boom.

Actually, I think it's for the quarter. Go over there and check it out. Go to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Try them out for a little while and see what the discount is. It's 33% off. That's, if you think about it, sort of an amazing discount. They have everything you'd want to learn, seriously. Everything from doing your own backups to managing your own Linux servers.

You can choose from 7 plus Linux distributions that automatically adjust the course. If you're in DevOps, if you're learning about OpenStack, if you're learning about Docker, they've got courses on that. They're always adding new content constantly. In fact, they just wrapped up the Puppet Professional courses. From beginner to Puppet Professional to be certified ready at Linux Academy. Vagrant, they've got courses on that. Docker, courses on that. They're on top of all of this stuff

because they're Linux enthusiasts themselves. So they are following the technology trends. They're following the open source developments. They're watching all of this. And then they're curating the courseware based on that. Nobody else can offer that. Linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Go there.

Check it out. Sign up. I've been using them now for months. It's seriously one of the best online learning tools I've ever seen in many years. And I go back to years when it required some clunky ActiveX installer. Like it was the worst of the worst.

And it was like, here, Chris, we have bought you this as part of your educational package for working here. And this was like, here, Chris, we have bought you this as part of your educational package for working here. And this is the course you can take. And it was the worst. Linux Academy is nothing like that. They have learning plans where you can go and tell them how much time you have available. They'll automatically create courseware based on that time availability with reminders and quizzes and self-checks. And they also have a community that's available to you. And I think one of the best things about Linux Academy is the way that they

automatically spin up virtual machines on demand that match the courseware. They give you remote access to them. You log in over SSH. You actually work with the technology you're learning about. You can download the comprehensive study guides, bring them with you on the phone, treat them as podcasts be like Skooky Sprite, listen to them in the shower this is a really great opportunity linuxacademy.com they also have added a lot of DevOps content

in the past few months because that's an area that's really growing and they've really doubled down on it linuxacademy.com and a huge thank you to Linux Academy for sponsoring the Linux Unplugged program. You guys, like almost every week, you guys have something new for me to talk about. And that is truly a treat. And it is really neat. And it's really awesome to watch them work. I feel a bit of a kinship with them. I feel like if Jupiter

Broadcasting were to start today, maybe I might go this direction. And they are truly advocating and spreading the use of Linux by making it accessible to learn to everybody, from experts to beginners. I think they're one of the best sponsors we've ever had. LinuxAcademy.com slash Unplugged. Go check them out. And a big thank you to Linux Academy for sponsoring

the Linux Unplugged program. Alright. So I wanted to start with some, let's start with a bang, literally. Why don't we talk with Antibody? Antibody is joining us in the mumble room. We have an open mumble room, and you're welcome to join us. We just do a mic check. He's joining us from the Zanotic Project, my favorite first-person shooter.

It's open source. We often talk about Steam games, and I'm delighted when we get a chance to talk about a genuine open source game. So Antibody, welcome to Linux Unplugged. How are you doing today, sir? I'm doing great, Chris. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So, you know me. We've had a Xenonics server for quite a while. I've been a player of Xenonics for quite a bit. But a little birdie told me there's something new in the works coming up in the near future.

Yes, indeed. That little birdie is correct. And thanks for running a server, by the way. I didn't get the chance to check your server ID to sport you some nice stats. But yeah, the little birdie says that there's going to be a release, quote unquote, soon. Very soon. Like maybe even before the new year? Like maybe. You know, this is an open source project, and we have like a gazillion developers from around the world.

So we got to herd the cats. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what kind of things, and when this new release does land, what kind of things are we looking forward to? Okay, so drumroll, please. Wait for it. Wait for it. Okay, no.

So Xenag is getting a new weapon, actually. The long-awaited ARK is going to be arriving. Well, actually has arrived in Master if you're running Git. But so the ARK, if you are from the Quake slash genre of shooters, ARK is like the lightning gun, right? Yes. Oh, my gosh. I love that gun.

We're working on some really, cool uh audio effects at the moment get it to echo and sound like really powerful really meaty you know yeah um in other news so we've got three new official maps we're focusing on the the capture the flag game mode uh so we have three official new maps for that. We have a very active developer in Mario who's developed this really neat little system that he calls buffs. And so it's not like your little strength or shield type power-ups. They're more wacky. So you get this so-called buff. It's like a hovering little coin thing, right? And then suddenly you can fly. or suddenly you can move really fast.

Oh, really? So we've got a bunch of little variety, little potpourri, if you will, into the game. So tell me, give me a little background for folks that are not familiar. Zoonotic is a first-person shooter. You can set up your own server. Am I correct when I say it's based on the Quake 3 engine, or is that wrong? It is actually based on Quake 1, but it's like Uber modified. I would say it looks amazing for that. Yeah. It's basically like taking the core engine out of a game and stripping it all the way down, building it back up with

some kind of more realistic expectations. We're not going to pretend that we're like a state-of-the-art engine, but it's pretty darn spiffy. Yeah, well, it seems like it, I would say, here's how I would rate the graphics. Like, it's still rewarding on a higher NVIDIA class card, but it's still playable on, say, like the Iris graphics, which is a pretty great range. And it also means it's pretty playable on a say, like the Iris graphics, which is a pretty great range. And it also means it's pretty playable on a lot of the open source drivers, right?

Absolutely. It's playable on your open source drivers. And, you know, more than just playable, it's really configurable. So we have people running it off of, like, I personally have an Acer Revo that runs Zonotic just fine off of a little teeny Atom processor. Very cool. that runs Zonotic just fine off of a little teeny Atom processor. Very cool. Well, so we should be checking out zonotic.org,

X-O-N-O-T-I-C.org, maybe around the New Year's timeframe, around in that area? Yeah, in that general vicinity, yeah. And, you know, look for the new maps, look for the new weapon. You know, we got a nice tiered server browser. Before, we would just kind of slap you with all the servers, a ginormous list that you had to parse through. I'm looking at the most active servers

and it's very disappointing. Jupiter Broadcasting, which was once at number one, is now falling to number 25. So if you guys go out there and install Zonotic, join the Jupiter Broadcasting last Zonotic server and get that number back up there. We used to rank it. So I think we can do it again. Yeah, come on guys.

Get fragging. So Antibody, you do me a solid and come back on the show when the new release comes out and maybe we'll do a little live gameplay and the mumble room can shoot each other and all that? Absolutely. I would love to personally frag you, Chris. I'll hover my right

index finger. It's really itchy. All right. You know what I'm saying? All right. It's really itchy. Fair enough. You know what?

I will take it. I will take it. I will. I am horrible at games. But all right. I'm an old man. So before we get out of the feedback segment, and thanks to Antibody for coming on and talking about that, I wanted to send out a request to the audience to get their feedback on Wallbag. What? Yeah, Wallbag. And maybe if anybody in the Mumble room has any experience with Wallbag, I'd love to hear about

this. But I've recently talked about on Linux Action Show this Sunday how I use Instapaper to read long-form articles. And in Instapaper, I have the open dyslexic font configured. and in Instapaper, I have the open dyslexic font configured. Now, there is an alternative to Instapaper that is open source that you could host yourself even called Wallbag, and it does the same thing. It's like an offline stash where you can read stuff later. The thing is I don't know what the end reading experience is like with Wallbag, but because this is something I do a lot for our shows,

when I'm in the middle of something and I see an article that's relevant to our shows, but it's going to take me more than a few minutes to read, I send it to Instapaper and then I go offline later and I read it all. And so Wallbag would be, it's something I could put on a DigitalOcean droplet. It's something that could be under my control and you know how I'm all for that. But I have no idea what the experience is like. And I'm putting a request out there to the audience to go over to the contact form and send in their feedback or in the subreddit. And I wonder if anybody in the mumble room has any experience with wall bag. No.

Negative. Negative. Okay. It doesn't sound like an idol. No. Yeah, I really hadn't heard a lot about it either, but I've seen it for a long time, and so I'll put my feelers out there. We'll see what happens. And maybe somebody out there has tried it, and they can send us in their feedback.

Oh! Oh, you hear that? Oh. Oh. Oh, I think it's time for a little Steam update, too. So speaking of, before we get away from gaming completely, super quick here. Boiling Steam has a great post on a proper end of year of gaming on Linux. And there's been some recent releases that are really big deals for Linux. And we won't spend a lot of time on this. I know not all of you are big gamers.

But for those of you that are gamers, there's some holiday sales coming up, and there's some great games that have come out. Metro 23 Redux has relaunched, and this is the rebuilt version that has a lot better textures. Linux Gamecast just did a review on that if you want to check that out for you football fans football manager 2015 is out some games that we weren't

expecting Empire Total War and this has gotten some serious traction in our sub reddit Geometry Wars 3 is it's an Aspire port which is Aspire has done all good work so far and it's a great game I had my friend John just was totally consumed by it. War Thunder, it's an MMO shooter, which looks really fun.

And Counter-Strike Global Offensive, of course, we've given mention to. Also, expected before the end of the year, Civilization Beyond Earth. So there's a lot of really good games. Zonotic, obviously, an open-source option that's really great. And if you are thinking about picking up some Steam games, I just want to, just a quick PSA, remind you, try to buy them under the Linux Steam client, so that way the Linux sale is counted.

I'm not sure what happens if you buy it on the web. And even if you buy it on a Windows machine and then play it under Linux, at least for two weeks, that sale is going to be counted towards Windows. So if you can, make these purchases as the Steam holiday sale comes up on your Linux rig as sort of a vote

for supporting Linux. Just something to remind people about as we get close to the crazy-ass Rape Your Wallet Steam sale that comes up where I feel like Gabe personally comes into my house, knocks everything over, breaks all my piggy banks, and takes all of my money.

It's a holly jolly time of year. And then yells atop his lung, you're welcome. You wanted this! All right. So we had Dustin Kirkland come on the show, and I asked him some questions pertaining to the future of the Ubuntu project. So we're going to play that here in just a second. It's some extra stuff that didn't make it into our last review.

And I don't know. I think it could make for a great desktop. I think it's a pretty compelling option. I'll play his answer, and we'll talk about it. But first, I want to mention DigitalOcean. Head over to digitalocean.com right now, and let's give the Linux Unplugged show a great end of 2014 showing. Use the promo code

unplugged December when you actually just apply it to your account. It's a habit to say when you check out, but it's actually you can apply the balance to your account even after you've signed up if you forgot to use it. Unplugged December will give you a $10 credit for DigitalOcean. Now, we've talked about DigitalOcean for a long, long time. And it really is one of the coolest resources and one of the coolest manifestations of different Linux technologies that has been put into a product that is also extremely awesome for Linux users to use. So what is it if you're not familiar? DigitalOcean is a simple cloud hosting provider dedicated to offering the most intuitive and easy way to spin up a cloud server. Now, why does that matter?

Well, that matters because if it's super simple and straightforward for you to set up, not a hobbled system, but a system that you have full access, full control over, that you can deploy applications to with one click, and if that process of setting that up just takes mere moments or can even be scripted, that fundamentally changes it. Removing all of that friction is a huge deal. And DigitalOcean saw that, and they realized that's why the UI was super important. And then they built it on top of SSD drives way before anybody else was doing SSD. And of course, they had to pair it with tier one bandwidth. And you can get started in less than a minute. And pricing plans start only $5 a month.

So if you use our promo code, Unplug December, with that $10 credit, you can go for two months. Here's what you're going to get for $5. 512 megabytes of RAM, a 20 gigabyte SSD, one CPU, and a terabyte of transfer, a terabyte. And they have data center locations in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam, and London. But that interface, right? I mean, it's inspired. It's so simple and very intuitive. And power users can replicate that interface on a larger scale with DigitalOcean's straightforward API. And I've said that a lot.

But I want to show you how that actually manifests in stuff you can use. Now, you could take advantage of that API. Maybe you have more skills than I have, and you would actually be able to write your own scripts or manage to snap it into your own puppet management infrastructure on your own. That, honestly, is just beyond my capability. But what is easily within my capability is taking advantage of all of the cool stuff that the DigitalOcean community has already created around this API for me for absolutely free. Like, it's just a Benny of being a DigitalOcean customer. Like, number one, right here, dropper control panel. Have you seen this? This is a management control panel for your DigitalOcean droplets for the Android device. There's even a nicer one for iOS. But, you know, I know most of you are probably Android users. No judging. That's cool. Dropper control panel.

It lets you start them up, back them up, copy them, move them around, take a snapshot, resize them, rename them from your freaking Android, right? That's just one use of the API. Here's another cool one. Lita. It's a chatroom bot that allows you to manage your DigitalOcean droplet within an IRC room. Now, why would you want to use that? Honey badger, I don't know. But I think that's amazing. The fact that you can do that is amazing. Here's another one. We're going to talk with Dustin very soon. Juju DigitalOcean provider. This is a way to snap in your DigitalOcean droplets with your Juju

management infrastructure. And you can start doing all of this for $5 per month. And if you're just an average user, you don't have anything super sophisticated like this that you want to do, that doesn't matter. You can still take advantage of $5 a month to build your own cloud installation, your own BitTorrent sync server, your own GitLab instance.

You can do all of this with DigitalOcean. And if you use our promo code, unplug December, you'll get that $10 credit. You can try it out for two months for absolutely free. DigitalOcean.com. Go check them out. Use the promo code UnpluggedDecember when you check out. And a huge thank you to DigitalOcean for sponsoring the Linux Unplugged program. You guys are so awesome and the community around them. And I didn't even get a chance to mention their tutorials that you can go write up and they'll pay you for them. It's so slick. DigitalOcean.com. Unplug December when you check out. Alright, so let's shift gears. Let's talk about

Ubuntu Snappy. So this was a topic of interest on this Sunday's Linux Action Show. During the news, we brought on Dustin Kirkland from Canonical. He's the Ubuntu Cloud Product Manager and a strategist at Canonical. And his new baby is Ubuntu Snappy Core. Now, just a super quick recap. Ubuntu Snappy Core is a new release from Ubuntu based uses systemd. But what's actually more important is the base file system is tiny. The base system is very small. And it's read only. When you get an update, you get a new instance of the file system,

and when you reboot, you boot into that new instance. And if something doesn't work, you just choose the other one. The applications are fairly unaffected because, essentially, they're isolated, probably in containers. And then when you can do these updates to the base system, you don't really affect the application data, the version of the application, the libraries they depend on.

And if the update doesn't work, well, it was a transactional update. So it's easy to roll back to the past version. So when Dustin was talking about this, I realized this would probably be a great way to have a very secure and stable rolling desktop release. So I asked him, is this the future of the Ubuntu project? Potentially. I don't know that it'll ever... We certainly haven't indicated that it will replace apps. Maybe being offered on all Ubuntu platforms

in addition, yeah, I think that's reasonable to say that anywhere you're doing Ubuntu, you can do either the traditional Debian package, AppGetUpdate, AppGetUpgrade, or the Snappy. I think that's a reasonable goal to shoot for. Myself, as a longtime Debian packager and Ubuntu developer, there's certainly places where I need to do Debian packages, you know, definitely for the foreseeable future. So I guess my last question for you, just as some jargon I want to help clear up for the audience. So we have your standard Debian packages.

We have Qlik packages, Snappy packages. And then there's also the management piece, which is called Juju. How does Juju fit in with Ubuntu Snappy Core? And can it be used to manage some of the services that might be riding on top of some of those containers? Yeah, so that's certainly on the longer term roadmap, you know, maybe a little bit farther out, a few months to a year out. Fundamentally, Juju is as an orchestration tool. is as an orchestration tool, the goal of Juju is to create resources in the public cloud, private cloud, or bare metal solution of your choice, right? And Juju can create instances in Amazon, Google, Azure, as well as OpenStack on the private side.

That instance would be like a full web stack with database, kind of ready to go, sort of like I click this and I deploy this charm and it's my whole setup, right? Yep, exactly. And that one charm might be a bundle of charms. It might not just be a single web app. It might be a web app that depends on a database, which has to be configured in a cluster with an HA proxy in front of it, a memcache on the side, accelerating things. By the way, you want to log everything to a single aggregator, an RSS log. By the way, those logs you want to then pump into a big data solution, a Hadoop, and then MapReduce that and be able to Elasticsearch your logs. That's a very typical Juju deploy one thing, and it deploys all of those services onto a dozen different instances running in the public cloud,

private cloud, or bare metal of your choice. Now, when Juju starts that instance, I would see Juju as being able to start that instance as a traditional Ubuntu image or perhaps a snappy Ubuntu image where you've made the opinionated decision that this suite of services you're going to deploy in that Snappy transactionally upgraded model. That is going to be a pretty compelling product offering altogether. And it's a really interesting space.

Containerization is bringing a lot of changes. Dustin, is there anything else you want to cover? Anything else you want to let us know about Ubuntu Snappy? Man, come talk to us. Snappy Devel is a mailing list. We've got an active community. We released just two days ago, just on Tuesday, and we put out images in the first public cloud, Azure.

The other public clouds will be coming along the next couple of weeks. We published an initial image that you could play with in KVM, and within six hours, we had posts on the list of people contributing vagrant images and VMware images. And personally, it caught me a little bit by surprise, not being a VMware, a vagrant user, that, oh, yeah, how we missed that. But fortunately, you know, we've got an active community developing very quickly. So yeah, come help us fill the gap, scratch your own itches in the snappy world. A big thank you to Dustin for coming on the show. And Popey, I couldn't help but notice, oh, he left, didn't he? Dang, I couldn't help but notice on that video there, if you look closely,

if you're watching the video version, you'll notice right there on the page, big poll quote from Microsoft. Microsoft loves Linux. Boom, right there on the page. Premiere Azure, the launch partner for Ubuntu Snappy Core. So he didn't seem to be too big on the whole Ubuntu Snappy Core for the desktop. But of course he's the cloud guy, right? He's focused on the server stuff. So that makes sense. I can't judge. I can't judge. But I'm looking forward to trying out Snappy Core. We've got Snappy Core, Fedora Cloud,

and Core OS that are all kind of... Fedora Cloud though doesn't... So what's different here is Ubuntu Snappy and Core OS inherently as part of their product offering sort of solve, I've got to update the base OS but keep the applications isolated. Fedora Cloud is more of a traditional OS distro, but if you employ things like Atomic, then you get more of that functionality. That's kind of my rough understanding.

So it's really an area that you've got really like three or four very clear different attempts to solve this problem. Some people would say it's fragmentation, but I think we're going to see which one actually wins the race. So anybody in the Mamba Room have any thoughts on the interview before we move on to our Fedora review? I think it's great and I really am looking forward. I'm paying attention. That's pretty much it. Yeah, I agree. I think it's great, and I really am looking forward. I'm paying attention. That's pretty much it. Yeah, I agree. I think where we're at right now is solving the I got to patch a lot, and I don't want to break my apps problem.

That's where we're at today. But where we're going to end up, I suspect, at the end of all of it, up, I suspect at the end of all of it is, this is how you install a new application on Linux, period. Now, we're not anywhere near there yet, but I feel like what we are working towards is the world's most amazing solution to solving that problem. How do you install X on Linux? I don't care what distro it is. How do you do it?

And it's going to be one answer. And what we're going to document on this show, and it's going to take a long-ass, tedious time, is the process of us going from, how do I update my rig all the time because, man, I keep getting exploited? That's where we're at today. But what we're going to watch that transform into is that how do I install it on Linux. And that's going to be an interesting journey for us to document.

I think it's going to take more than 70 episodes, though. Oh, yeah. I think so. Yeah. All right. Well, I think everybody wants to get to the Fedora review, and I agree. I think Fedora 21 has been an amazing release. We've talked a lot about it.

I hope the audience is okay with us deep diving like this because we obviously have been talking, and this will be about the third week in a row or so that we're talking about it. But I feel like when a Linux distribution that's at least as important as Fedora, but any Linux distribution that has as much of a wide reach that Fedora has,

that has as many contributors working for it that Fedora has, and has the role that Fedora has, to go through what we've seen it go through, to split off into these three distinctive flavors, to be willing, when you're at the size of Fedora, to just say F it, and just go for it,

and just do something totally different, and then to pull that off? Like, I'm going to be honest. I kind of thought when Fedora was talking about going with three flavors and doing it in, like, essentially one release cycle, I was like, yeah. Okay, well, if you think you can pull that off, good luck to you. Yeah. You know, really. I mean, I was skeptical about it.

And now here we are. Fedora 21 is released. Yeah, a little delayed. No big it. And now here we are. Fedora 21 is released. Yeah, a little delayed. No bigs. And they seriously did it. So that's incredible to me. And I think it might be one of the most interesting distribution-related things that's happened this year. Not the only one, but one of them.

So we're going to get the community's input on that. But first, let's talk about our friends at Ting. They're ending 2015 with a freaking bang. Ting is mobile that makes sense. My mobile service provider and Matt's. Linux.ting.com is where you go. Let's represent for the Linux Unplugged show at the end of 2014. Linux.ting.com.

So why Ting? Why does it make sense? What do I mean by that? Well, first of all, no contract, right? Because the contract, it just really doesn't make any sense. But what also doesn't make any sense is paying into these plans that you may use plans. Like it feels like insurance. And I always kind of feel like that doesn't make sense either. Ting instead, it's just pay for what you use. So it starts with $6 for the line. That's all you pay.

That's pretty straightforward. I can afford that. So I've got three of them, right? Because what matters is what you actually freaking use. So it's just your minutes, your megabytes, your messages. They add them all up and that's what you pay. If you want to turn on hotspot, that's fine. Do it. Make it a Wi-Fi access point. That's just data usage, just not a big deal.

And if you're savvy about using Wi-Fi, like when you're on Wi-Fi and you make your calls over that, I mean, you can have an incredible savings with Ting because again, you're just paying for what you use. So linux.ting.com, start there. Okay, that'll get you $25 off your first Ting device. If you have a device that's compatible, they have a bring your own device page where you can check that out. If you have a device that's compatible, well, they'll give you $25 of credits. Well, the first month usually is like $26. So you're going to get your first month pretty much for free. If you have a contract, well, Ting's going to help you get out of that.

to get your first month pretty much for free. If you have a contract, well, Ting's going to help you get out of that. So you're going to get $150 for the line that you have to cancel. Yeah, it's $150 in credits, but it's $150 in freaking credits. That's money you won't have to pay for your cell service. That's really great. Plus, they have an awesome control panel. You can call them at 1-855-TING-FTW anytime between 8 a.m. or 8 p.m. East Coast time. Yeah, it's East Coast time. I'm sorry about that. I know. I know.

It's not Pacific. I'm sorry. But it's East Coast time. And a real human being answers the phone. That's okay. So that's like boom. That's the foundation of Ting. You can already see they're thinking about this differently.

You can see they're trying to disrupt the crazy ass restrictive mobile industry. Okay, that's pretty straightforward. But what struck me about Ting is when they don't have to, when they don't gotta, they're going out of their way to make their stance on issues clear. They recently had a blog post about net neutrality that I thought was really well reasoned and really well put together. And I thought, okay, I feel like my money's going to a good place. They're coming here, they're thinking about this rationally, they're taking a stand, they're articulating that stand really well. And I thought, that's really cool. They're screwing with the mobile industry by offering something totally different. They're about to roll GSM and CDMA out at the same time, starting in 2015, which is going to be a game

changer. I'm like, I'm loving all of that. But let's be honest, like there's more that could be done, right? I mean, wireless is fundamentally critical to the future of a lot of mobile apps, a lot of mobile web stuff. But at the end of the day, I still got that wired connection. I cannot believe it. This is what I love about Ting. This is why I always preach, vote with your wallet. Ting is going to launch. Now, they're starting small. I mean, they have to start within reason, but they're going after residential internet access now. See, this is just the beginning of something. It's not a big thing. It's only in one area right now because it's just like Google Fiber. They got to start small. But they are starting to roll out crazy fast fiber access

to the home. And they're going to take the whole Ting model to all of it. I think it's like this could be huge for everyone, like not just users of Ting, but everyone on the internet. They seriously care about this stuff. And again, that's what we talk about voting with your wallet, linux.ting.com. Go there. They got it on their blog. You can read about it, but go to linux.ting.com first. That way we get credit for your visit. Right. But then go over to their blog and check this out. They're rolling out Fiverr. Unfortunately, it's like in Virginia right now. Yeah. Charlotte. Charlottesville. Charlottesville. I want it so bad. This is so cool. I think this is another example of a great sponsor

that I'm really, really happy to have because I really believe in what they're trying to do. And I think that's just so amazing. I mean, for the last two years, it's totally changed the way I think about mobile. It's changed how I look at the whole industry. And now I'm going to look at what they're doing at residential ISP service.

This Ting is crazy, and I love it. Linux.ting.com. Go over there and check them out. See how much you could save. They have a savings calculator. Check them out. Linux.ting.com. And a big thanks to Ting for sponsoring the Linux Unplugged show.

Okay, guys. So let's talk about Fedora 21. Let's get started. First up, getfedora.org. It's their new site. They're very proud of it. And you know what I find to be interesting on this site? First sentence, Fedora is now more focused.

And isn't that true? Like, isn't that exactly like what they've addressed in Fedora 21? You've got your workstation release, your server release, and your cloud release. Now, I think probably not a large leap of assumption here to consider. We've probably all just been looking at the workstation release. Not a lot of us looked at the server or cloud, right? Anybody done any of the server or cloud stuff? I didn't think so. That's fine.

And maybe we'll do that in the future. So let's start with Fedora workstation. Go ahead and tag me in the mumble room, anybody that wants to start. I'll begin with my experience, tell you what I did, and then we'll jump into the mumble room. So I installed Fedora 21 64-bit on my Bonobo and also on a Dell Sputnik laptop that was sent to me by Kernel Linux in the mumble room, and I also tried it for about a half hour on an Apple MacBook Pro 2013-ish. I don't really know the model number.

So that was the range of hardware that I experimented with Fedora 21 on, all GNOME across the board because I decided to go with the environment that I was most comfortable with. So let's start with Kernel Linux. How was your experience on your laptop? So I installed it on my Dell E6320 and that worked really great. In fact, that's my new daily operating system now is

21 and that worked really well. But I had a nook that I used for doing different things and that was when it first came out, I wanted to throw it on something and that was what happened to be laying around, and it sucks. The lock screen freezes up. So if I were to switch over to that computer right now, I have to hit escape like 15 times and wait like 30 seconds.

And it's running on an 840 Pro SSD, so I shouldn't be waiting for it. But I do wait for it, and that doesn't happen in Ubuntu 14.4. So I don't know. Okay. You know, I had my first like, oh, my God, it's going to happen moment with Fedora 21. I don't have these very often anymore with computers. I guess it just doesn't happen a lot. And, Matt, it's kind of funny because it made me think of the monkey suit right away.

Of course. Oh, no. I was on the Sputnik that Colonel Linux sent me that I've selfishly held on to. Thank you, Colonel Linux. And it's an Intel chip in the Sputnik. And I thought, well, so I'm all open source through and through right now. Right. And at the GDM login screen, and you hit the little gear button, you have your GNOME desktop, GNOME Classic.

And then on there is GNOME and Wayland. And so I chose GNOME Wayland. And I logged in. And then at first I thought, did it not work? I think it's still using X. And I launched Terminal. I launched Chrome. I launched the Activities Overview.

I'm like, oh, I guess it didn't work. And then I started to realize a couple of things weren't working quite right, like my trackpad. Like I couldn't click on stuff. I could move the mouse with the trackpad, but I couldn't click on anything and I couldn't scroll. But if I had a USB mouse, I could use that. And I started to realize, oh, I actually I actually I'm using Wayland right now. I'm I'm using Wayland with GNOME 3 and the Chrome browser right now. And I had this total, like, oh, my God, I'm using Wayland,

and it's working flawlessly moment. And, like, it was amazing. Like, here we are. I keep saying this, the end of 2014. But I actually just had, like, an essentially trouble-free Wayland desktop. No futzing, except for my tractor that didn't work, but it was kind of like Fedora 21 was my first, and it was like, oh, wow, thank you.

That was incredible. Now I know it's ex-Wayland doing all the windowing stuff, but it was kind of amazing. R.A., I know you were here specifically to touch on Wayland. Did you have any comments on that? R.A.? RA, I know you were here specifically to touch on Wayland. Do you have any comments on that? RA? Ra. Oh, I'm sorry.

Ra. Yeah, I'm sorry. Ra. Yeah, actually, I would like to announce that I'm running on Wayland right now. And I think I'm the first person in the chat room to talk while on Wayland. Yeah, you might be. I think you are our first Wayland. Yeah, you might be our first. I think you are our first Wayland-based mumbler.

And actually, I had the same story like you, Chris. My trackpad doesn't work. And I had the same Wayland surprise. Like I tried Rebecca Black Linux, which was supposed to work out well. And also Fedora 20 and all those shenanigans, as Matt would say. And it didn't work. And suddenly I realized I was on Wayland.

It didn't crash and it runs fine. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty neat. I mean, it's not done. But it's pretty neat to see that happen. And I don't know. I mean, it's been a big discussion piece for a long time. So, Ra, I'm sorry, you'll be our Wayland correspondent, okay? You keep us updated

on your Wayland developments, all right? Okay. All right. Very good. Thank you. So, any other comments from the Mumble Room on their Fedora 21 experience? I'll end it with this. I'm hoping maybe somebody can walk me back from the ledge. But I'm ready to declare Fedora 21 my next distro if I jump. I'm ready. Wow. I mean, walk me back. Walk me back from it.

But right now, here's the thing. Here's what's limiting is the software availability still sucks. And I also, before I go into this, have to acknowledge. How do you mean? Well, like, for example, Heropad, a Markdown editor, does not exist for Fedora. It's a total impossibility. It's a nightmare. I even tried building it from source and it ran like ass.

It was a total nightmare. But, you know, if I'm on Ubuntu, I got a PPA ready to go. If I'm on the Arch, well, of course, the AUR has got that as a decade ago. It had that in there 200 years ago. It had that in there. But when I go to Fedora, I'm like in no man's land, right? Okay, Viber. Viber is another example.

I don't like it. I admit it is a crap application that we should move away from, but I need it to correspond with people that are in the field and people that are out and about. And, okay, Viber is a thing. You know what? If you're on Fedora, go screw yourself. You're on Arch, no problem. You're on Ubuntu, no problem. You're on Fedora, I hate you.

And that kind of stuff drives me crazy with Fedora. Whereas with Arch, like, again, I'm not saying this applies to everybody, but because I install four to five to six to seven to eight to ten applications a week, that way I can pick one of those mother effers on the Linux Action Show. Because I reinstall that many applications, like, when I have to go out of my way to find a repo or download an RPM or build it from source, like, that adds 10 to 15 minutes. Download an RPM or build it from source. Like that adds 10 to 15 minutes. And if I'm doing five to 10 to those a week, that's stupid because in the AUR nowadays, I just go Packer-S and I just put the name of the damn package in there and I've got

it. I don't even look to see if they've got it because they've got it. Now that's where Fedora falls short. If that is, which only probably applies literally maybe to me, like there might not be anybody else in the world that that applies to. And I accept that. If that does not apply to you, I feel like Fedora's got most of it because Copper's got a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff in the RPM Fusion and additional repos around Fedora. And if you use scripts like Fedly, F-E-D-L-Y or whatever it is, it'll set up a ton of stuff for you under Fedora that makes it a pretty good setup. For me right now, Fedora 21, it's the longest setup. It's the

most post-installation work, but the process of doing that is fairly automated, fairly easy. You can pretty much just do it, sit, click, click, click, and you're done. It takes a lot of work, but after that work's done, it's ready to go. And if you start with something like Karora, which I don't think has their 21 release out yet, but Karora Linux, which is Fedora with all the goodies that are evil pre-built in, then it's even a quicker go. So that's what I mean with Fedora 21. It's great with the exception that it does require a lot of work to get going. If you want Steam, you want proprietary drivers, you want Codex, you want Flash, you want Java, you know, Chrome, you know, that kind of stuff. It takes a while.

That's fine. Yeah, I've definitely found that the one area Fedora doesn't quite do it for me is package availability because I do find myself needing either PPAs or AUR or something that has a little more. It's not even about being recent. It's just about me not having to compile it or dig through an RPM and roll dice or whatever. Yeah, I agree with you, Matt. I do. Rotten Corpse, go ahead. Yeah, I've actually set up my laptop to be the Fedora,

so it's like my second distro choice now, but mainly because Copper is one of the things I'm super excited about. Yeah, so can you kind of explain a little bit about Copper? Because we've name-dropped it. We talked about it on Sunday's Linux Action Show. Is it fair to say it's sort of an AUR Arch user repository equivalent? It's more of a PPA equivalent. Explain.

So you can build different branches kind of thing, so the different packages. The only thing that I see so far that I don't like about Copper is that it's restricted to open source free software type of stuff. Oh, okay. restricted to open source free software type of stuff. Oh, okay. So the reason you say that is because the building doesn't happen on the Fedora workstation when you install the package? Right. They set up the builds on their servers.

Gotcha. Now, Dave, you wanted to comment on other desktops besides GNOME? Yeah, I'm just saying, while GNOME is the default offering, it's not the only offering and other desktops do work flawlessly on Fedora. If you're running Cinnamon, KDE,

LXDE, whatever, don't expect to have problems. It's not something like Unity. You can only install that. Yeah, very true. In fact, Matthew Miller said that KDE is a very important desktop as well as many of the others. Ra, you've been using the OpenSUSE build service

with your Fedora installation? Yeah, yeah, and I found that it works really nice. Sometimes they provide Fedora packages, sometimes the OpenSUSE packages work. It's been really smooth, but I agree that it's kind of hard. For example, I didn't get Eclipse to work until I found out that the dev tool that they bundle with the workstation actually works perfect for that. Well, I'll tell you, it is a pretty great service. Eric, I know that's something you're familiar with, right?

Correct. I have used the OpenSUSE build service quite a bit, especially in OpenSUSE to get stuff installed, to find packages and whatnot. The only thing is they don't have Fedora 21 just yet. They probably will in the soon future, I would imagine, but they don't have the ability to build packages for Fedora 21 just yet. I'm looking forward to that because, like, for instance, the KDE Connect indicator, which has been in our subreddit a couple times, it can be installed on OpenSUSE. It's just not very successful, but it's built for Fedora 20.

It works properly in Fedora 20. It just needs to be compiled for Fedora 21, and that'd be fine. it works properly in Fedora 20 it just needs to be compiled for Fedora 21 and that'd be fine. You kind of went through the process of trying to submit that to the Copper, is it repository? I'm not sure what to call it. Yeah, just

Copper I guess. I did but the build failed and the build failed because it, well actually no, the build succeeded I apologize, the build succeeded when I went to install, it failed to function. So I'm not exactly sure why that is. It does the same thing in OpenSUSE.

So I imagine because they're in the Git sources, I think it is built more for Debian and Ubuntu than it is for anything else. So it's a matter of just making it compatible. I know there's people working on it in the Git repository. So this is the hurdle that Fedora now has to overcome, is the Linux desktop market has moved on. And I don't mean to disparage Fedora, but in that sense, it is just simply so much easier to get some of that software for Ubuntu and for Arch.

Two examples that are very popular, KDE Connect and Herupad. Herupad is an amazing markdown editor that is really gaining in popularity. We talked about it like three or four months ago in the Linux Action Show, and they've just been blowing up since then, right? It's available for Ubuntu. It's available for Arch. It's not available for Fedora. Now, those are just isolated examples, but I believe that is Fedora's problem now. Now, what they have done here, I think, has laid the groundwork to address that. Fedora Workstation, I had a conversation with Michael Dominick on Monday's Coda Radio, where he's back on Linux now for his development workstation, and he was asking, you know, if I reload, what should

I switch to? And I made a pitch for Fedora, because honestly, they've got DevAssist, they're really close to Upstream. That's one of the things I've always said about Arch that I liked a lot, is I felt like I'm closer to Upstream. Well, Fedora's got that, but it also has sort of that background leadership by Red Hat, which I believe, at the end of the day, to have a commercial entity that says, you know what, we've got to produce something here, We've got stuff we've got to do. I think that actually is just what it takes to prevent issues like we've just seen with Debian. But it's not where they're

directly pulling all of the strings. I think it's just the right mix. I like that about Fedora, right? So I think from that perspective, I enjoy it. The fact that they're all in with GNOME, I think that really makes it a great GNOME experience. And the DevAssist stuff, all of that, I think actually makes it a pretty compelling developer's workstation, just like they've been pitching it. So when he asked me, what should I use for my Linux workstation? I mean, I honestly, I gave a harder Fedora 21 is a serious, serious contender. And if you've watched me over the years, you know how I felt about Fedora, right? I mean, if you look at some of our shows from five years ago, compared to what I'm saying about Fedora today, they have turned it around, I think. Oh, I agree. I definitely agree with that. I definitely like the direction they're going with everything except software availability.

Everything else is honestly blowing everyone else out of the water. Yeah. Nailed it. You nailed it. That's exactly – in a nutshell, that's exactly the – and the software availability is slowly improving and it actually is going in the right direction. So, it's pretty cool. And I think that'll probably button up our coverage. Oh, go ahead.

Yeah, I just have a word of clarity that KDE Connect works flawlessly in Fedora under KDE. However, using the KDE Connect indicator, which is for other desktop environments, it doesn't work quite so well. Also, the chat room has been asking, and Colonel Linux, you'll be happy to hear. So I tried out Fedora 21 on a MacBook. It does not go to graphical environment at all if you have a second monitor hooked up over the Thunderbolt adapter. But if you are just doing a single monitor, everything except for, well, I didn't try the webcam or wireless, but Bluetooth, Thunderbolt, Ethernet works. But what was really impressive is it not only supports the Retina display

on the MacBook, but GNOME looks pretty good. Like Chrome and Firefox, the text is really small, but the GNOME UI itself, I mean i i don't i don't i don't have a lot of experience with quote-unquote retina display but it was amazing to look at gnome on that resolution it looked great i think you could fix the remainder of your problems just by i think what the problem is is it conflicts with the existing mac OS operating system. I think if you were to take that off, I think then everything would work fine. There you go. So anyways, I was kind of flabbergasted.

It's the first time I've ever just put a thumb drive into a MacBook Pro, booted it up, and actually had Linux working on it and able to use the networking and all of that. So there you go. I am very impressed with Fedora 21. WW, why don't you give us your closing thoughts on your experience with Fedora 21?

Well, I'm going to have to preface it with saying I tried it on seven-year-old hardware and I thought, oh, it's Linux. It should work. And I ran into issues where I could just not install for the life of me, no matter what. Oh, really? Yeah.

I mean, I'm running it on an AMD. It's my other laptop, not my main laptop. It's an AMD 2 gigahertz dual core with an NVIDIA 6150. And it just, after, like, when it went to format the drive and install, I left it there for like two hours and i like you were doing tech snap at the time and by the time that was over i'm still waiting for the system that's a long time yeah yeah i did want to uh for the most part uh from what i experienced of the install um it kind of reminded me of that Windows feel where it had a good

level of polish, but I still felt it had some work to be done, like the warnings could be up higher when you're trying to install something. Well, actually, pause right there just for a sec. I was actually kind of impressed with the way that they brought forward the SELinux alerts and would tell you, here's what SELinux has detected. Here's like three or four fairly solid options you can do to resolve this problem. I thought, A, that was impressive, and B, yum or DNF. I added the Dropbox repository for Fedora before it was ready.

And what yum does, when you do a yum update and then the Dropbox repo for Fedora before it was ready. And what YUM does, when you do a YUM update, and then the Dropbox repo 404s, because they don't have anything set up for 21 yet, instead of YUM S-ing the bed, what it does is it says, hey, bro, I'm having trouble contacting this repo. You can run this command to disable the repo, or you can run this command and just say,

you know what? Ignore it when it 404s. It's no bigs. And it's just enough power, but yet enough hand-holding that when you're new to YUM or DNF, you know what to do next. Having some basic Linux knowledge and system administration knowledge are okay, admittedly more than basic, but like that was enough. The information they provided me, I was able to take actions based on that and resolve my SC Linux issues and resolve my YUM repo issues. And I thought it was really slick the way they handled it. So are you talking about that WW or talking about something else? No, no. I feel like my issue was more like a hardware incompatibility issue, or maybe I needed to throw a switch on some setup script,

or when it booted off of the USB stick to do something. But I got no such prompt at all during the process. I know Popey felt the same way about a certain issue with how the setup was for partitioning, and I thought it was confusing, and he did as well. I don't know if he had some further thoughts on that. Thank you for bringing that up, too. Yeah, I did feel like, while the overall installer, it's growing on me.

They've had this essential one for a little while now. I felt like, so every time I was installing Fedora 21 on every rig I installed it on, because it's 2014. I already had an operating system installed, right? It wasn't a blank drive. I don't – okay. I don't know in what scenario somebody is installing Fedora on a system that's never had another operating system. But it probably happens like in the server space and stuff.

I'll grant them that. But on the desktop, what Fedora tries to do is, like, it's going to hook you up. Like, it doesn't want to mess with you. You know what it's going to do? It's going to shrink stuff, and it's going to try to fit Fedora in some free space for you. But I don't want it to do that. I want it to wipe out all the partitions and set up a, you know, have at it, Haas. Go for it,

Fedora. And in order to get to that, you've got to select the drive, and then you've got to go into the special reclaim space menu. And then you got to select the partitions that you're willing to reclaim space from. And then when you click that, when you click that, it doesn't actually represent in the visual that you're now reclaiming that space. It's not until you click apply that it then represents it. So you don't really get a chance to visualize what it is you're about to do before you make the action. And the entire time, you're not even sure that's where you're supposed to be making

that change at. And so I felt like the partitioning definitely was one of the rougher areas. But once I wrapped my brain around what they were trying to do, every subsequent Fedora install, I didn't have a problem. Yeah, I did try it on another laptop, and I think it worked better. So I think I might just try a different USB stick and put some space and give it a better try on another system and see how it turns out for me. Ra, you added some ButterFS experience feedback?

Yeah, actually I had a previous setup with OpenSUSE and there were a couple of ButterFS partitions on there and then I decided to go all in on Fedora 21 even before it came out and that's not happened since

I ditched Windows, let me tell you. And Fedora just the partitioning scheme, the editor, messed it up. Then I had like 20 ButterFS partitions, which all were empty subvolumes in the partitioning editor. And it actually created all those. And I thought, well, let's do it. Maybe it's just a bug. And then it actually created all those.

But that was before the release, and they fixed that. So it should work right now. I hope it does. Huh. All right. And, Dave, you have a better way for the partitioning? Yeah. There are simpler ways to actually do it.

You just simply delete the partitions. The thing about Fedora 21 and most Fedora installs since, I think, the new installer, it doesn't actually write changes to your disk until you begin the installation. Right, okay. So you can make changes whichever way you want by just simply adding and deleting disks and deleting partitions. Yeah. When you actually get to the partition menu,

which I admit is a little confusing at first, but you just press the little minus sign on the bottom and your partitions will be gone, and you can write whatever new configuration that you want, anywhere you want it. So there is that. Secondly, to WNX's point, I would like to ask him which spin he was using, because if he was

installing GNOME 3 or something heavy, it might take a very long time, because a default GNOME 3 install has, I think, somewhere around 1,400 packages to install, from the core utilities to all of the

GNOME stuff, so obviously it would take a while. The advantage, obviously, is that it doesn't download stuff from the internet, so. So obviously it will take a while. The advantage obviously is that it doesn't download stuff from the internet so you can do it offline. Also, before we go any further, I just want to make a caveat that Dave, his audio is a little crackly. He's been experiencing some problems under

Linux. When he boots into Windows, the crackle goes away. So we're troubleshooting that. So we apologize. But you know, it's what happens sometimes as Linux users. All right, so, W.W., did you have a response to that? Yeah, I just grabbed a workstation ISO 64-bit off of Fedora's site and just downloaded it, put it on the USB drive, and just ran it. So what I think happened is the whole system locked up

because my mouse was movable. I was just letting it sit and just format the partition. And at one point, it just became immovable and I left it until I thought, I'm going to have to hard reboot. And it just froze on the formatting of the drive. So that's what happened for me. Then obviously, yeah, they'll probably install a bug. That happens from time to time to the best of us.

Yeah, is that true? It happens with every dish out there. You have to be careful about that. Bugs happen from time to time to the best of us. Ra, you have our closing thought you wanted to say? Yes. Go ahead. Go ahead. you have it sir no all right yeah i'm there sorry i yeah didn't didn't push yeah oh yeah um so the budgie desktop i i'm not sure whether you tried it out but it's

on it's big on google plus they have a great community and it's actually a quite quite a good desktop. I wouldn't prefer it over GNOME 3, but that's just because I'm used to it. Is it Fedora-based or what's it based on? It's GTK-based. It's GNOME-based. Right, yeah, I know that. But what's the underlying distro that it's based on?

Yes, Fedora, I think. I don't know what it's based on, but it's at least easily installable on Fedora just to add a repo file. Yeah, very good. All right, that's another check it out. You know, every now and then as the holidays come up from time to time, some of you have a little extra time on your hands. Some of you don't if you're like me, especially with the three kids. Tell you what, Matt, I want to move to Texas. I'm going to set up the JB Ranch.

I'll have all of the hosts come down. They can live on the ranch. I'll be like George Lucas. And all of it is just so that way when the family calls up and they'll be like, hey, are you coming to Christmas? I'll be like, oh yeah, you know what? Sorry. Gosh, I'd love to come to Christmas, but you know what? I'm in Texas.

Yeah, I'm in Texas. That's what I want to do, Matt. Well, you know what would be cool is when Bacon's ready, you could just ring a bell. Yeah. And all the hosts come like heads pop up out of the kennel. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And all of the hosts, all the producers, that would just ring a bell. And all the hosts come heads pop up out of the kennel. And all the hosts, all the producers, that would get some stuff done. I think that's a great idea.

Maybe we'll work that out in 2016. In the meantime, go over to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash contact and send us your feedback. It's a huge part of the Linux Unplugged show. Also, linuxactionshow.reddit.com is where you go to give us your feedback. If there was something like, God, why didn't these guys talk about this? These idiots. Well, it's probably because you didn't submit itactionshow.reddit.com is where you go to give us your feedback. If there was something like, God, why didn't these guys talk about this? These idiots!

Well, that's probably because you didn't submit it to our subreddit. linuxactionshow.reddit.com Also, go over there to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. We won't have a live show next week, but we will have a new show. But we need your best of submissions. We're still taking those. Check it out. We need your help.

Next week, we'll have a new episode of sorts. It'll be some of our best of stuff with some moments from me mixed in there. So Matt, have a great Christmas and I'll see you in two weeks, okay? Sounds good to see you there. Alright everybody, thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Linux Unplugged. We'll see you right back here

in two weeks? I totally want to mess with Texas. Great show. That was a good show. Great end of year. Of course, it's not the end of year. We have one more show in us. But I feel like this is the last show of the year, in a sense. The next show

it's like a... I don't know what it is. It's like a freebie. But thanks, everybody. It was a great input. So, jbutitles.com. We've got to go boat! Boat. Everybody, go over there right now. One thing, though. One thing I'd just like to say. Everything you talked about, think about Yum, and Yum has its flaws, let me tell you that.

But think about YUM, think about SELinux, the installer. Everything has worked perfectly fine since Fedora 18. Yeah, right. I've been using Fedora with KDE. Thank you. I didn't mean to imply that the SELinux alerts and stuff and the YUM stuff was new to 21. I sometimes assume people know that, and so I don't disclose that. And really what I was trying to say is it's part of the overall experience now on 21 is you have all of that stuff combined with everything else.

Yes. No, the thing is yum sucks. Yum is a – god damn. Coming from me, that's safe. I don't know. I mean it didn't seem that bad. Of course I was mostly using DNF. It didn't, that's saying something. I don't know. I mean, it didn't seem that bad. Of course, I was mostly using DNF. It didn't seem that bad.

Yeah, no. You used Apt. God damn. So I can see it on the internet that I do not like Yum as much as I like Apt. That being said, there are certain advantages, and these advantages have been there for a very long time. Have you tried using DNF? I have. I have a couple of times. It's what young children.

I like Lord Wimpy as one of our title suggestions. That's pretty good, considering that Wimpy's so badass. Fedora 21 Frags Misconceptions is a little long. That's not bad, thoughconceptions is a little long That's not bad though It's a little long Like my opinion I'm sorry as a little nod to Zanonic Yeah I do like that aspect of it I do agree

Steam's winter is coming WWE you know where my head's at Wi-Fi enabled microbooth That's right token ring paying attention Chris's bacon farm down in Texas Bacon farm I had a question for Wimpy That's right, Token Ring, paying attention. There we go. Chris's Bacon Farm down in Texas. The Bacon Farm. I had a question for Wimpy, though.

Does his remote cloud top work with the brewery? What is it called? Sure it does. Sure it does. The Brewee, I think it is. Brewee. I have no idea. If you buy me one, I'll test it for you. Yeah, there you go.

I can see that becoming popular. Christmas is coming. I don't mean to overhype this, but I think we are currently experiencing a title crisis. This is the title crisis of 2014 Winter Vortex Edition. I don't like any of the titles in the top five ranking right now. I need everybody to go to jbtitles.com. This is a crisis. This is a crisis. You are entitled to your wrong opinion. I'm entitled.

Hey, Wimpy, I like your, what did you call it, cloud top computing? What did you call that? Yeah, link bait. That's what that was. I know, but that was good. That was good. Yeah. Yeah, cloud top computing.

Yeah. You know, it reminded me, I was on Tech Talk today. I was telling, on the pre-show, I was telling a story. About five or six years ago, I worked at a school district. And not only did they have abysmally slow internet, but they also had really restrictive filters, content filters, as you might expect. It's, but to the point of where it made it hard to even do, you know, some IT troubleshooting and things like that, because certain open source projects were, you know, flagged. And it was really even like, I think for a time, Jupiter Broadcasting was flagged. But this was five or six years ago, right? This wasn't really in the era of, like,

digital ocean droplets anymore. And so I had a friend who had a data center down in Texas, and he gave me a co-located server. It was like an Optron box. I think it had two Optron processors in it, and about 16 gigabytes of RAM. And it was Red Hat Linux.

I think it was Red Hat Enterprise, something old. And it was a full-fledged real PC server. It wasn't a VM. It was a full racked box that I was getting for about $120 to $135 a month, including an NFS-attached storage array that I had for big stuff, which was really cool. And what I did back then, and I know, I think we've talked about this before, Wimpy, is I didn't use X to go, which is what you're using. I use something called no machine NX or MX. Do you remember this? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm using at work at the moment. And I'm about to replace with X to go. Yeah. So from what my experience is with

no machine, again, it goes over SSH. It uses pretty good compression. It can even do like remote sound. I mean, it was amazing for me because I essentially had like a GNOME 2 or XFCE style desktop. And I could even watch YouTube videos, 20, 30 frames per second, maybe if I was lucky. But the audio would be synced up and it was extremely, extremely usable. I would close the window. My session would just remain. I would reconnect and I resume right where I left off. So what is the main advantage of X2Go over say no machine? Cause no machine is still a thing too. Yeah. Um, X2Go is

just blitzing quick and a lighter weight. Um, so the, the core, uh, implementation takes about 35 meg of RAM, and when you actually connect to a full Ubuntu Mate session, you can run it in 125 meg of RAM. And doing that over, I use 3NX currently with Ubuntu 10.04. We're about to ditch that and update. But that uses about twice twice the ram and that's um that's where um free nx which is uh the open source implementation of no machine um so yeah but um yeah like you say you've got all of that good stuff like transparent audio relay so you uh your audio transparently

shifts from the uh from the remote instance to your local instance. Yes, it's very slick. And yes, you can watch SD video from YouTube and what have you. But where X2Go starts to differentiate itself is you've got this transparent shunting of your directories from your local machine to the remote machine, which all happens over SSHFS. And you just right-click, share a folder, pick a folder, and then, boom, it appears on the desktop as a mounted drive on the remote instance. Would you be up for doing a segment with us on last, like in January sometime on that? Because that is really cool.

The file system set up like that is definitely very neat. I'd love to show people. I tell you what, maybe we'll want to wait a little bit longer, because since I posted about that, I've been talking to digital ocean and i'm now working with their editorial team to turn this into a proper tutorial um so there's there's going to be several articles and i was talking about this in the lobby with some of the other guys prior to to the to the stream starting. So we're going to do the initial recreating what I've done.

So as an individual, you can create a droplet and deploy a desktop into it, and I'll explain what the potential use cases for that are. But then taking it full circle, what we're going to be looking at is if you're a small business and you want to control your distributed works, workforces, computing environment, and you've got to bring your own device policy, how you can set up centralized authentication for these multiple instances. And you know what your fixed costs are per employee per month it's going to cost you 10 bucks a month for a workstation instance which they can connect to from a mac machine or a windows machine or a tablet or whatever so are you just to hold on just put you on pause are you telling me that what

you're what you're working on is a way to take somebody say that has multiple droplets that are desktop instances that they connect to where they have a secure place to work, but they would all also have maybe like on the private networking side a centralized login system like OpenLDAP or something? Precisely that on the centralized authentication side, but also building on DigitalOcean's private networking. The end game is once you've got central authentication and multiple instances on a larger droplet deploying Open Media Vault and using the private networking to create a virtual distributed office. Oh, my gosh. That is brilliant. Yeah, of course.

Oh, wow. Of course you could do that. That is so slick. That is – I want to do that. I want to do that. Nice. Right, Matt? You know what I'm saying?

That's like – Oh, yeah. When you hear that, you're like, wait a minute. Okay, hold on. Who needs computers anymore? I'm just going to build droplets. I'll have an open media vault rig up there. Seriously.

I'll have a Plex rig up there. I'm going to do this. That is – Wimpy, you've got to tell us how that goes. That's really cool. It changes the economics of everything, really. Quite. And, you know, what I've got here, what I've been experimenting with is there are a number of thin client solutions, and we were talking about some of those earlier. But the one I'm using is I've got a Raspberry Pi with – in fact, you know about this, Chris, because Q5Sys gave you one – a Raspberry Pi with an Atrix lap dock.

Yeah. Chris, because Q5Sys gave you one, a Raspberry Pi with an Atrix lap dock. Yeah. So, and then a wireless dongle. The whole thing runs wirelessly off the internal battery for 10 hours. And I've got a minimal arch instance on that Raspberry Pi, which boots to Openbox, automatically starts the X2Go client. And then I log in to my remote Ubuntu Mate droplet. And as far as my workstation is concerned, I am, you know, I've got a full Ubuntu Mate workstation far more powerful than the Raspberry Pi I'm using. No kidding. No kidding.

And just making it essentially a transparent shim between you and the remote system that has potentially a huge connection, super fast SSD. That is wimpy. Jeez, that's cool. And a Raspberry Pi is like a super cheap version of this. But when you look at these deployments that are happening where Windows is being replaced with a Linux desktop, it's not being replaced with a Linux desktop on that Windows machine. By and large, they are remote terminal services, and that Windows machine is being repurposed as a thin client. I have seen that. So this is how you can bridge that gap and minimize your hardware expenditure.

This pushes so many buttons for me, because remote desktops used to be something that not only did I, so I took what was once the largest independent bank here in Washington, which is no longer the case after 2008. But we moved them from DOS to terminal services. But then I went to school districts and did Linux terminal services project. And then when I was working for the school district, I did the no machine thing for myself. And what you're talking about right now is like, is so up my alley. It is like my bag. So I would, I really want you to keep me

updated on this because I would love, not only would I love to just talk to you about this, but I would love to even show people how to do this because this could be seriously a way to show people that watch the Linux action show a very straightforward, very cost-effective way to build out a remote Linux-based desktop. It doesn't matter if all of their employees want to have MacBooks and iPads and iPhones. That's fine. But when you log in to do the work, you log into our secure environment under our control up in cloud, connected over private networking to our internal resources. Exactly. And that solves your bring-your-own-device IT governance problem right there.

And your file format compatibility problem with Mac users with one version of Microsoft Office and Windows users with another Microsoft Office version. And, you know, it just solves all of that. Wow, that's slick. Wow. and and the other piece a little bit further out because this is in the unstable branch at the moment and i mentioned it a few weeks ago but um there's um a bolt-on protocol for x to go called telekinesis and that was that's a general purpose um protocol but it was really developed to facilitate uhteleplayer so now what you can do is you can have

full hd content on the remote instance and instead of using the x2go protocol to send the rendered video it actually streams the video back to your remote machine but in a window and it looks like it's being rendered on the remote machine but it's not it it looks like it's being rendered on the remote machine but it's not it's actually the video is being streamed so um i i'll just go off and find a little video there's a video of two full hd screens running a 4k video over x to go and no player no yeah i'll just go and find it's on youtube hang YouTube. Hang on a sec. I'll be back in a bit. Wow. That is amazing. This feels like we're getting ice cream with our pie.

I know. And getting double scoops. So you guys know I've been trying out this touchscreen for a little bit. And it's pretty solid. It's got a big Dell thing. Yeah, yeah. It's surprisingly good. I'm happy overall with the picture quality. One thing that I have noticed

is, you know, it's like the things you don't expect. Like, I guess thinking about it, when I got this monitor, my plan was to fix up one of the old Hackintoshes that I used to use as the switcher. It's a pretty nice Hackintosh. And I thought, all right, I'm going to fix this up. I'm going to make it an arch box. And then I'll put that under the table and I'll take all right, I'm going to fix this up. I'm going to make it an Archbox and then I'll put that under the table and I'll take the Bonobo home. Because, you know, I bought it to be able to do quite a heavy video load. So it's still, even though it was a couple of years ago,

it'd still make a pretty good, like, just dedicated GNOME workstation. And I would just have that hooked up to the Dell monitor and the other mirrored port going out to the HDMI capture. But, you know, it needs some work. It needs, like, some data has to be backed up off of it, and it needs fans replaced, and it just has, like, stuff that has to be done to it.

And it just, I'm not getting to that. So I realized, well, you know, this Bonobo here, this frickin' Bonobo's got HDMI out, DisplayPort out, and a built-in screen. I've always wondered, as long as I've owned the Bonobo, would the Bonobo be down for a three-way monitor hookup? I've never, you know, I've always been like a little afraid. I've been a little cautious about it.

I didn't want to approach the Bonobo and be like, hey, Bonobos, I got this idea. And then the Bonobo would be like, are you serious? When my HDMI port is full, that DisplayPort is off, buddy. That is off limits. But it turns out it actually works great. I plugged in both the display port and the HDMI port. They're filled up now.

And the internal screen is also on. And it works magically. I mean, it really works well. The downside, though, and I'm running the latest NVIDIA driver here, but from time to time, you know, about seven, eight days in, the driver just starts crapping itself. I don't know what exactly is going on because usually it seems to happen right after I get done playing a full screen video. And then like the X, then the X session drops, GNOME restarts. Well, the X session comes back,

GNOME restarts fairly gracefully. everything actually kind of resumes, you know? All my apps are still running. It's not like a full jump out. It's more like something just changes. And I go back to the default X layout. I no longer am in a three-way. I'm now back to one monitor and then two remote displays. Well, that immediately breaks capture.

And the thing is, if I'm playing a full screen video, there's like a 98.9% chance that I'm actually in the middle of a show because that's why I'm playing the video. So then that means my whole session takes a crap in the middle of a show and the only way to fix it is if I get up and walk away from the microphone and I walk around the table and I go over to the Bonobo, and I go there, and I bring up the NVIDIA control panel on the Bonobo's display, and I mirror everything again, and then I walk back. So it's been a bit of a bumpy ride because of that.

So the touchscreen, on its own, has been pretty solid. The unexpected consequence, though, of forcing my video card into a three-way has been not-so-stable drivers that seem to impact me about seven or eight days. Just about the time you forget the problem even exists and think it's maybe not going to happen again. Boom! It gets you right in the middle of, oh, I don't know, unfilter. And then Reek Eye has to fix it in editing. That happened. Have you considered using a different desktop environment?

No.