LINUX Unplugged - Episode 89: Oh Deere, RMS was Right | LUP 89

Episode Date: April 22, 2015

Manufactures claims software integrated with hardware means the end user never truly owns the device, and simply owns a license to use it. Our panel discusses the real world ramifications of this.Plus MacBook Linux woes, the quick look at the ThinkPad Yoga 3 running Linux, the biggest systemd myth busted & more!

So how's Mr. Hartley doing? Not bad. Not bad. Yourself? Yeah, I feel like we circle each other all the time, but we never actually... I mean, we directly interact on Facebook every once in a while. Yeah, it does seem like that. It does seem like that. I'll be popping in for a bit tomorrow, so I'll probably see you then. I heard for Seeker Project 109. Yeah, exactly. Alpha Dog.

That'd be kind of cool if everyone had call signs. Right? That would just make life a lot simpler, I think. Yeah. It really would. Yeah. I guess we kind of do, though. That's what screen names are for, right? I guess so. I mean, it kind of starts with all, you know, you got your CB handles and then it kind of evolves to IRC from there. A man we call Colonel Linux. Yeah, there you go.

What? Am I getting made fun of? I feel like I'm getting made fun of. I think basically... You are! I am, alright. You shouldn't totally change it to Colonel Military. This is a poor week for you guys to make fun of me because right now I'm sitting in front of Mumble and I have a feeling this account is

rather empowered. I feel like you walk around in a constant state of evaluating other operating systems as they compare to Ubuntu and all other phone mobile operating systems as they compare to Ubuntu Touch. Not all the time. Not all the time. In your spare time? Well, when I'm awake, yeah. Noah's on the nook.

Noah's on the nook. Noah on the nook. And a yoga as well. Actually, so hold on a second. I'm on a think center i'm in a lenovo think center i'm on a nook i'm on a yoga it's just wow man yeah it's crazy well i got so many computers up in here you you're in studio at the moment i am both of you so you've not headed off to to the Big Jamboree yet? Not yet. No, that is on Friday. Oh, wow. You're putting in some hours there then.

Noah came in late last week so that way he could be here for the big Switch Angela to Linux effort. Which was... He's ongoing, Chris. He's ongoing. We'll save it for the show. He's reinstalled OS X already. We'll save it for the show.

I'll save it for the show. Don't give it away. Is this a show topic? Yeah, this is going to be a show topic. I'll save it for the show. I'll just say, Noah flew in if he got here Friday. And he basically

eventually did get to sleep Sunday after last. Yeah. Oh, there you go. A couple hours for like three hours before we went to dinner. Neither nor I slept much from Friday until Sunday after Linux Action Show. Yeah. I think towards the end of last, you could start to tell both of us were getting a little cranky. Yeah.

You night owls, you. Well, no. It wasn't intentional. We didn't want to be night owls. It's just if we didn't stay up all night, there wasn't going to be a show in the morning. So we stood up all night. And it wasn't just us either. No.

Yeah, Rekai. Yeah, Rekai. He's pulling double time. Noah and I went off. I got like a solid two, three hours of sleep. Noah got a solid two, three hours of sleep. Rekai got zero. Yeah.

No, he did get sleep. He just slept during last night. Yeah, Rekai slept during last while we were doing last, and then he woke up after last to continue working. We're going to give him a burger and rice because Rikai, if you're not aware, can be bought in Five Guys Burgers. Yeah. People are like, oh, I've become a podcaster.

How easy must that be? Yeah. Yeah. This is my bacon burger. Show up for a day. Oh, God. Show up for a day. Seriously, this job is making me old

and here we're wearing ourselves out right before the big fest yeah yeah here's the thing though Chris you have to understand something you feel the stress right from the outside this is amazing this is great everyone wants to see nobody wants to see us roll in there and everything work on the first time nobody wants to see that it's no fun

yeah I get the impression that things didn't go so well. No, we can't talk about it. Not yet. Yeah, we'll save it for the show. Yeah, let's discuss it. Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that has an anchor around its neck. Oh, wait a minute.

No, that's a MacBook. My name is Chris. And my name is Matt. Hey there, Matt. Guess what? In studio, we. That's a MacBook. My name is Chris. And my name is Matt. Hey there, Matt. Guess what? In studio, we've got a special guest and that is Noah. Thanks for having me. Hey, Noah. I didn't have your mic muted. I had your mic muted because it's like, he's never in studio. Yeah, why would he talk? Hey, buddy. Well, I'm glad you're in studio. Yeah, Noah's hanging out because Linux Fest Northwest is coming up in just a few days. And we have been slaving away for hours before the show and after the show, converting my wife Angela to Linux. We have learned a lot.

And in the process, we've also bought some new hardware. We will be giving you a review of the ThinkPad Yoga 2 in this week's episode of Linux Unplugged. Oh, Yoga 3. Sorry, Yoga 3. We went all out. Oh, shoot, shoot Sorry, Yoga 3. We went all out. Oh, shoot, shoot. And we'll also tell you about that. But after that, there's a very interesting thing going on with John Deere tractors. Yeah, I said John Deere tractors.

On a Linux show? Yeah, it actually very much relates to Linux-free software and free hardware. And it's picked up a lot of traction in our subreddit this week. So we're going to talk about that as well as some great, great follow-ups since Linux Action Show. And today, I cannot believe how much good news has come out. It's a huge show this week. So before we go any further, we cannot take another moment without bringing in our Mumble Room. Time-appropriate greetings, Mumble Room.

Hello. Oh, handsome group you are. Handsome group. Hello there, everybody. Man, it is lovely having you here, and I'll have to tell you what. I'm glad you are because we have got a great show, and we're going to break it down. Let's start, though, with a little follow-up, a little just stories we have talked about before on your Unplugged program

that need a little attention. Oh, hey there. How you doing? And that is your friends our good buddies everybody loves system d what no not everybody and uh a group is doing something about it one of the most uh tantalizing components of system d is login d and that's something that you got to have if you're going to use like say gnome 3 on wayland and it's caused some consternation in the bsds out there and all them folks well i would like to introduce to you eLoginD.

What essentially this is is LoginD ripped out from SystemD, and it's going to become its own project to be a standalone version of LoginD. So those distributions that don't want to use SystemD can put this in, have it be API compatible. It'll lay out on the file system. It'll integrate in with PAM, so that way it'll use PAM and policy kit or a login kit or whatever it is a paul kit paul kit it'll use paul kit so that way it works with the underlying authentication infrastructure so you can get all the advantages of having login d without system d so is this have we reached a point now where we can stop saying things like red hat has taken over system d and that's a that's a totally red hat thing and

nobody will else be able to play at the party because Red Hat controls the party. I mean, is this not a first step of allowing other people to do things different ways and breaking compartmentalizing things out? Matt, in your opinion, is this sort of proving all of the SystemD proponents' that was saying look if systemd gets big there's an API you can clone the functionality well guess what systemd got big and they clone the functionality isn't that exactly what we're seeing play out here isn't all the naysaying all the doom and gloom maybe

turning out to be not quite accurate because look look what we're doing right here is this proof of in the pudding Matt I think that the whole thing was just blown out of proportion it's obviously people with entirely too much time on their hands that sit in their parents' basements whining and complaining about whatever. The point of it is is that the whole thing's stupid. This takes care of itself, and it's beginning to. I mean, solutions are already making themselves evident. So yes, in answer to the whole thing being blown

out of proportion, absolutely. And I wonder if anybody in the Mumble Room that wants to take the counter argument, you're more take the counter-argument, you're more than welcome to. All right, Derek, go ahead. I actually would like to do that. Yeah. So when it comes to the complaining, well, that's pretty much what we do.

Let's be honest. That's our purpose. We're here for that. We're here for that. Fair enough. The complaint is what improves the quality. That's my argument on that one. And in service, we do it.

And having on the like i guess it does prove the case because it shows that apparently there is enough people interested enough to to to the point that they will do the effort of you know cloning and just having an api compatible it's good that it has the api but it's still work being done because it's getting too big. Right. And that API is unstable. It changes. So exactly. So it means that now there is, quote unquote, duplication of efforts. Right. Something that we're always bitching about. That's what I feel. That's what I feel. Well put.

It does prove that. OK, so I thought nothing is early days,, not a lot other than this to it. But the system D drama does continue on its own way. All right. I thought this next story was particularly interesting. We talked about the whole Debian elections and all the stuff going around there and the different sort of platforms that the different candidates ran on. And I don't know if anybody else caught this, but I thought it was particularly interesting that Neil McGovern, I think is his name, he's the one that ended up being elected as the new project lead for Debian. And part of his election platform, and maybe it won't be exactly this, but part of his election platform was introducing PPAs from Ubuntu into Debian to give users of Debian an easier way to install PPAs. Now, there could be a lot of ways to skin that cat. It might not be an exact implementation, although that seems like that would be the best for user adoption. It seems like it on the surface.

Yeah, yeah. What do you think, Wimpy? I think this is a great idea and probably a bit overdue because because with debian sort of two year cadence more or less you know when it's ready um and really you've only got the backports repositories and then you know if you're on a server platform it's a little easier because some of the big projects maintain their own repositories for things like umginx and Varnish and Postgres and things of that nature. But if you're a desktop user, you're kind of resorting to either sticking with what you were given or compiling stuff from source or making your own packages. So I think having PPAs brings us closer to that stable base and then rolling applications on top, which is terrific.

And you don't have any concerns? You think the current PBA system is good enough, the Debian? You think they just take it as is? I have no idea if they're just going to take what Ubuntu have already created. Doesn't it seem like that would be the most advantageous? But maybe they couldn't because there would be too many differences between Debian and... But, Popey, isn't all the Launchpad stuff open now, so they could potentially take all that?

They could, but it comes along with, with i think a significant amount of baggage and it's all very well integrated into launchpad i think they want to do something akin to ppas but not yeah like you know uh you know going and getting launchpad and putting it on a server somewhere and saying there you go there's ppas for debian i think want... I mean, Debian archive admins know how to maintain an archive, and a PPA is effectively a very small archive. That's all it is. And behind it, it has builders, and so they would probably need to put restrictions on the PPA build infrastructure in the same way that we do

so that PPAs only build like x86 and i386 or i686 um and optionally armhf and optionally power pc and so on and so on otherwise their builders are just going to be flooded with people in the same way that ours are sometimes people uploading their own random like firefox or cuteice, whatever packages, which take a very long time to build, they need to put restrictions in place. And I think they're quite capable of doing that without using Launchpad. So, Derek Delvin, are we putting the cart before the horse?

You say that's not the first step. What is the first step? Okay, so apparently what they've just set out to be doing more often and more quickly is to, okay, select a core view, set up out to be doing more often and more quickly is to, okay, select a core if you set up packages to be core, handle those and things that are out of that spectrum. Let's not keep them around and trying to fix them as they have been doing. Let's drop them and let them come in again.

And I think that is because they're realizing the limited resources and they have more and more traction and i'd say vol and others as well coming more and more to debian are opening that avenue right so ppas will be a next step type scenario where okay if there's too many things being dropped so constantly then we need to figure out a way of you know allowing those to exist that's where PPAs fill in. But I think they're first streamlining the process that they already have, try to have that be a quicker process for people to enter into the Debian project. Yeah.

Then something will be. Yeah, you've got to build that community to create the software and package all that stuff. You've got to cultivate all that. Okay, can I say something here? Yeah. I personally like the idea because I think it would make WN a lot easier to use for us regular users who are not so really that much versed in the Linux world. Yeah, I think it would.

It feels like it would make whatever it is, a PPA ripoff or not. I think it would encourage people to switch over to Debian from Ubuntu. I think if that kind of availability was, I think it would be one of the things that keeps people on Ubuntu is that mass software availability. They might as well call PPAs Ubuntu crack, really. Why would they want Ubuntu to switch from Ubuntu to Debian, though? It seems to me like right now Debian is aiming for a completely different kind of user than Ubuntu is.

I agree. Well, I can see that. However, Debian stable is appealing to a certain class of machine. I mean, there's a workstation class or a server class where Debian stable has a real place to it. And there's also political reasons as well, I suppose. But if you install Debian stable and then put a whole lot of packages from PPAs that are

maintained by some random people, it's not really Debian stable anymore. And the reality is, I think they target drastically different... Is this going to change what we think of Debian? Is this going to change Debian a little bit? I don't know. Do you think you're still –

Yeah. No. I can tell you right now no because there's already a way to install packages or build packages for Debian. Well, and there's third-party repos. Well, you can use the build files from Launchpad from PPAs to build the packages on Debian, right? So there's kind of this workaround way to use PPAs on Debian. I like – hold on. This will just streamline the process.

Q5 says – producer Q5 says Debian's user repository will be called the DER. Not a great name. The reality is that I would put my mother on Ubuntu, but even if I had access to all the software, I still don't think I'd feel comfortable sticking around a Debian box. Unless I'm going to be there constantly to do stuff for. Yeah.

I've been using Ubuntu for going on three years, and I just recently tried a Debian-based distro, AV Linux. And let me tell you, it was quite a bit difficult for me to use. So yeah, I like Ubuntu and Ubuntu-based distro, AV Linux. And let me tell you, it was quite a bit difficult for me to use. So, yeah, I like Ubuntu and Ubuntu-based derivatives a lot better. I suppose.

Yeah, I'm reaching to really come for a good answer to that question. So I'll grant you that. Derek Devlin, all right, your closing thought on the zero install. So zero install is this type of package manager, really, that allows you to quickly install something that is listed on a website. And it pretty much is able to pick up from tarballs or search your package manager, see what's already installed, use that, but installs like a different environment for that package.

Follows you pretty much to have these foreign packages. I think that might be a way of having, okay, this is an exception to my stable system, and it is kind of better than PPA necessarily. That's my impression. And it's already working with Debian. They are actually making efforts, and it works on Windows even.

So I don't know how is that going, but it is an interesting project. Hmm. Interesting. A zero install. I find all of this stuff so much potential, and yet still so far away. But I'll tell you what's here today,

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Can you get ice cream anymore? You go to Cold Stone, you'll spend $7 on ice cream. That's insane. That lasts like 15 seconds. That is nuts. And so for $5 a month, you're going to get 512 megabytes of RAM, a 20 gigabyte SSD, one CPU, and a frickin' terabyte of transfer. Yeah, a frickin' terabyte ssd one cpu and a freaking terabyte of transfer yeah a freaking terabyte of transfer yeah a freaking terabyte of transfer for five dollars a month it's just it's nuts and they got data center locations in new york san francisco

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Give it five years. First of all, I would like to have multiple marriages. I don't feel like I should leave my existing wife over that, but I also feel like I have room for another wife if that wife is DigitalOcean's dashboard. Yeah, especially looking that good and at that pricing structure. And DigitalOcean really just,

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Two months, absolutely free. DigitalOcean.com. Noah, have you played with CoreOS yet? I have not really played with CoreOS. I have. I have, however, played with DigitalOcean using X2Go. Oh, yeah, man. Oh, yeah. You got an X2Go up there, huh? That is nice. All right. So, DigitalOcean.com, DO1 plug. Thank you, DigitalO Oh yeah, you got an X2Go up there, huh? That is nice. Alright.

So, digilotion.com, do you unplug? Thank you Digilotion for sponsoring the Linux Unplugged program. Alright, so Wimpy, is it customary? Now, I know this is just in your opinion, but is it customary for Canonical to make up crazy random numbers in their press releases? Or if

Canonical writes, today we count over 25 million users and that number keeps going rapidly, is that trustable? Is that 25 million number legit? Because that seems, you know, cray. I have no idea. No idea where those numbers

come from. Popey, Popey. I'd say it's trustable. What do you think, Popey you think it's not infeasible if you look at just the digital ocean being the most popular one you think about okay if it's most popular at least 30 percent of that okay you can count a good numbers of that all right and it's on it's on ec2 a lot right it's on a lot of cloud installations yeah it's It's very... I mean, it doesn't sound too off, honestly. Why do you say that? That number, 20 million, was quoted from Mark years ago. Like, I don't know, five years ago, something like that.

And within the first week or so of me starting at Canonical, someone mentioned numbers. And so I asked on an internal mailing list, look, this 20 million number has been banded about a lot is is there an up-to-date number and now bear in mind i started a canonical three and a half years ago and i asked that question and i had a conversation unfortunately internal private conversation with someone who explained where that number came from and that it you know it it was as accurate as we could make it

given that it's possible for someone to install Ubuntu and be behind a firewall and pass the CD around and we have no idea of that install. So we can't be 100% accurate, but based on various things, people upgrading hits on Launchpad, hits ntp update hits or you know all kinds of stuff we can make an educated guess right and that was some years ago the not the the trajectory the graph was going in a particular direction and we could extrapolate forward and continue to monitor those numbers and yeah they're not inaccurate

but that number 20 million was some years ago and people keep asking us for an updated number and i i personally think that the company regrets ever giving that number out because people keep on asking for an updated number i think that might be so you think 25 million is a is a trended estimate is what you're saying? No, I personally think $25 million is massively under. Ah, really? I personally think it's way higher than that. But I have no evidence.

I can't possibly corroborate that, or I have no data to provide to back that assertion up. So you could say that with a grain of salt, because I work for Canonical and I'm passionate about Ubuntu. But when you factor in, like, one of the major use cases for Ubuntu is the cloud deployments. And the number one thing about a cloud deployment is probably behind a firewall. I mean, like, a lot of those, like, the number one use case for Ubuntu server

is generally behind a firewall, and it's going to be harder to count if they're all coming from one IP to check in updates and whatnot. Right, and if a company spins up 20, 30, 100, 300, we just wouldn't know that. And then to make that even harder, then you have, like, when you have companies that have a lot of Ubuntu machines, a lot of times they do internal repos. Right, and that's kind of where I was thinking of. At first, I was like, wow, that seems high.

And then I thought about it, and I'm like, man, in Grand Forks alone, and we're only a town of 50,000 people, we have Amazon, they have 4,000 workstations, and I know for a fact every one of them is running Ubuntu desktop. So you look at that, and now you extrapolate that and say, well, if they're doing that, they're probably doing that at every Amazon call center. How many computers is that?

In addition to all the computers that we have at home, in addition to all the computers that we have in the cloud, in addition to all the computers that places like Google heavily use Ubuntu. And you think about how cheap a VM is these days. People just have thousands of them. Yeah. But, I mean, like even Google has their workstations that they do work on. It's a modified version of Ubuntu, but it is Ubuntu. When I say people have thousands, I mean people like data centers. I don't mean people like us, but data centers.

There's data centers where there could be a thousand VMs in one data center, and maybe they're only doing a few things. So then that number starts to seem highly realistic, if not low. What are you going to say, Poppy? I think people get really hung up on the numbers. And really, part of the problem is you know a lot of the time developers want to see numbers to be able to yeah um know that there there is a target audience is it worth my investment of time exactly and and i i can see why people want more accurate more

accurate details but really in the large scale of things i'm not i'm not sure that you know having super accurate numbers about exactly how many deployments there are. I mean, it's good for Apple to go on stage. It's great for Tim Cook to go on stage and say, we've sold X million iPhones or iPads or MacBook Pros because there's a share price there. They're interested in keeping the market happy. Canonical is a privately held company. We don't have any shares, you know, publicly traded shares. So that's not important to us to make those announcements.

So it's a different kettle of fish, really. I wanted to ask you something that I think I'm reading the wrong way. And I know you're not an expert in these areas, and so I'm not asking for an official Canonical opinion. But I always think of, you know, friends of the show like System76 when I'm seeing kind of hardware-related announcements from Canonical, and I wanted to talk about certified hardware images.

And so it reads as this. The Ubuntu image preload, this is on the same announcement. So the Ubuntu image preload will come with all the drivers integrated and maintained throughout the lifecycle of the Ubuntu version. This is a certified image from Canonical.

If the end clients were to use a standard image from Ubuntu.com, it's likely that not all components will work. So here's what I'm taking away from this. This is how will Ubuntu certified images differ from the Ubuntu.com images. An Ubuntu certified image offers end users radically different experiences because all components within the hard rule will simply work out of the box and continue to offer great performance throughout the life of the Ubuntu version. Canonical will ensure that any modifications that may be necessary due to security updates

and patches are fully tested and integrated into the master image before the updates are pushed out to market. So this would be like an OEM image provided to Dell or somebody like that. But the way I also sort of can secondarily read this is if you're buying hardware from vendors like System76, that's sort of like a doc, that's the image they downloaded off of the website. We can't guarantee that. But if you want to buy a certified laptop

with a Canonical certified image, that is going to be maintained by Canonical. So essentially Canonical is going to kind of do the job System76 has been doing, where System76 has made any drivers or changes or patches needed to make Linux work well. Now, Canonical is kind of taking that role on but offering it to almost any hardware OEM.

Am I following this? We've had an engineering services group for years that have done this. This is not new. Is this being opened up? Why is this in this announcement really well i think it's more that people just didn't know we did it okay that's what i was trying to understand is what's been changed i think part of this came from a a conversation that was had internally about the new dell sputnik right so there was a there was a conversation on intel mailing list where

um an engineer says yeah what laptop should I buy? And someone says, well, you should buy the Dell one because it works really well. And I know you and others have reported problems with the Windows version of the Dell laptop. That's all pretty much gone now. Because the Windows version, right. But the Linux version is now available. Yeah.

And we helped Dell make that work, right? So it wasn't Dell that did that. It was a collaboration between Canonical and Dell. Right. So someone's got to do that and someone's got to pay for that work right so it wasn't Dell that did that it was a collaboration between Canonical and Dell so someone's got to do that and someone's got to pay for that work it kind of though but it kind of sounds like it does kind of sound like it creates a a difference between the vendors that have certified

images and the vendors that don't that maybe right well someone's got to do that work somebody should be so there's got to be a commercial relationship going on between Dell and Canonical in order to make an excellent experience for people who yeah i don't want people to go to dell.com type of them to get a laptop and it arrive and so this doesn't work what i'm trying to ask though is like if i were to buy a certified canonical certified Ubuntu machine, the updates for that machine would actually be developed by canonical, not the OEM I bought them from.

Am I following? It's collaboration. Canonical and Dell work together. So it depends on what the arrangement is. Right. So the whole point of this is getting a machine out the door that is satisfactory for Dell's customers or whoever that OEM is. And what we're saying is we'll work with you to make sure it works.

You know, it's a positive thing. It's not, you know, there's an ISO image, chuck that on your machine and off you go and good luck. Yeah. We want you to have a good experience. We want your customers to have a good experience. We want the touchpad to work. We want the touchscreen to work. We want the Wi-Fi to work. And we'll help customers to have a good experience we want the touchpad to work we want the touch screen to work we want the the wi-fi to work and we'll help you to do that that's that's

part of the value add that we're trying to offer is that that's what that that press release is really all about is like you know look at the services that we offer that actually can make the experience for your customers better i love you poppy uh so while we're talking about hardware i wanted to mention the yoga 3 that we ended up picking up which we'll tell you more about here I love you, Popey. ThinkPad. Yeah, I mean... But why are we doing a USB Ethernet? Well, so, okay, the wireless needs to get the updated drivers before it will work, which I need the internet, and that wireless card is really finicky. The laptop is incredibly well built, as you would expect from Lenovo. And in true Lenovo fashion, to get it to boot, instead of having to do some stupid goofy shutting UEFI off and all that other crap, there's a little button.

You push a little button and now you're booting USB. And it disables secure boot just by pushing the button. It disables the UEFI. You can do regular BIOS boot the whole nine yards. thing is the before I understand from from the from the Google that once the operating system is installed all the updates are done we'll have drivers support for Wi-Fi and Bluetooth right now that doesn't seem to be the case so what we have is we have a wired ethernet adapter the problem is the wired ethernet adapter keeps coming unplugged and then my down my package things no you didn't so thanks but it's it's really finicky, or the cable's finicky.

I don't know. So this is the 1080p screen version. Yeah. Which, having seen this compared to your 4K XPS, this went all the way. Yeah, and then you don't have to worry about all the weird high DPI stuff. Frankly, I'd prefer this. Yeah. I mean, I'm being honest.

Well, after I saw this, I was like, gosh, I kind of want to give Andy the XPS. So we're going to tell you why we're doing the yoga over the MacBook later on in the show. But so right now, if somebody was just coming to you and say, Noah, I'm at Best Buy and I want to pick up a machine that can run Linux and I know they sell the Yoga 3 at Best Buy, would you say go ahead and pick this up? Yeah, yeah. Even though the Wi-Fi is not working yet? Yeah, yeah. I would like to. Maybe we'll get it working by the end of the show. I was going to say, I'd like you to ask me that question again in 20 minutes. But you work on it during the show. I will. And then we'll get it working by the end of the show. I was going to say, I'd like you to ask me that question again in 20 minutes. Okay. But you work on it during the show. I will.

And then we'll see if you get the Wi-Fi going. Now, that's assuming we don't knock off the adapter. Now, if all goes well, you'll see Angela rocking her new Yoga 3 at LinuxFest Northwest April 25th and 26th. That's this weekend. If you can't be there in person, we'll be streaming it live Saturday and Sunday, jblive.tv. And we'd love to have you tune in and hang out in the chat room. We'll be taking questions when we have guests from the chat room. And it should be a pretty good, pretty fun experience.

It's been fun the last couple of years at least. Are you excited? I am. I'm super excited. Yeah. Matt, are you excited? Oh, definitely. I've been looking forward to it all year.

Now, Matt, if there were, say, going to be cake at the booth, would you have even a bite? I can't. I'm literally paying for it. I actually had cake here. I'm not saying there's going to be cake. Don't assume there's going to be cake. Did somebody say there's going to be cake? No.

Guys. But, Matt, what we'll do is we'll arrange it so if there was going to be cake, you're as far away from it as possible so you're not tempted. Because all I'm saying, if there was going to be cake, it's going to be delicious cake. If there was going to be cake. Will it be chocolate? I'll bring snacks. I'll be okay.

We'll make sure that we'll put you as far away from this delicious cake as possible. And you know what we'll do is maybe people just show up at the booth, they can eat all the cake for you. If there was going to be cake. But the cake's probably a lie. Linux Fest Northwest is going to be awesome. We'll be doing a party on Saturday evening. You can go to meetup.com slash jupiterbroadcasting and we'll have final details in the LinuxFest Northwest

event as that approaches. I'm really excited. It's all in. Who are you picking up tonight? Where are you going after this? I don't know. I'll have to look up. I think Ellen is tonight. There's people coming all hours of the day, all different days of the week.

It's going to be an ongoing process, but that's just another service we provide. You're a trooper, Noah. You're a real trooper. I think you're a – what do they call it? What's the guy that does the evacs and stuff? I think they call you a gopher. No, I was going to give you something better than that, man. I was going to give you something better than that.

You're a broadcasting professional assistant. No, come on. Come on. Come on. come on. Come on. Let me tell you about our buddies over at Linux Academy because they just had a freaking great, great week. Since we got together last year on the Linux Unplugged show, Linux Academy had their

big live special on the 16th. Man, you guys, it's like a serious, serious thing. I've got a little summary for you, but I encourage you to go over to linuxacademy.com right now. In fact, go to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. That way you get our 33% unplugged discount and you're going to be impressed by this. So if you don't know about Linux Academy, they've been a sponsor for a little while. They are a resource for you to go learn

really some of the best technology in Linux and open source. It's built by people that are truly enthusiastic about this stuff. So they really close that 10% gap. It's not a site that does like Photoshop tutorials, camera tutorials, After Effects tutorials, broken sync tutorials, and an Apache server tutorial. They only focus on the Linux and the open source stuff because that's what they eat and breathe. They got together with their buddies that are educators and developers and they created the Linux Academy platform. There's seven plus Linux distributions that you get to choose from that automatically adjust the courseware to match that distribution and also make sure that the virtual machines match the courseware.

So if you choose an Ubuntu box for the courseware, then the virtual machine is Ubuntu box. Once you spin up that virtual box, you get a public IP address to SSH up to that bad boy. So you get to work from your desk, maybe load up mosh or something like that. So that way it's real responsive. That's how I prefer to work. My lesson in my Guake terminal, it's outrageous.

They have scenario based labs. That way you really get hands on with the technology. So you really terminal, it's outrageous. They have scenario-based labs, so that way you really get hands-on with the technology, so you really know what you're doing. They have everything from Linux Essentials up to OpenStack, Docker, virtualization. But after the 16th, they just blew it off the door. It's just like the door came in and smacked me in the face. It was like, oh my gosh, I had to print

it out. Look at this. Right here, I got two pages. And how small is that type? Yeah. Wow, that's ridiculous. Yeah, I know, right? That's crazy. That's how much stuff they did. So I'm just going to read through a couple of these things because I'm just going to be reading off this for a little while because it's amazing. So a couple of things. What are you guys going to love the most? They have new types of in-depth courses that are totally nuts. You'll really seriously get in-depth with that technology so you're really going to understand it. But they're also like, hey, you know what?

Sometimes there's just like small nuggets of stuff you need to learn. It's not really attached to any specific courseware. So they have nuggets now. So when you have downtime, you just want to jump in and learn something new. It's really cool. It's a single how-to that allows you to walk through specific tasks. They're not really course-related. I like it.

About two to 60 minutes long, depending on which one it is. It's brand new, something they just introduced. Also, I love, love, love this. I'm going to tell you about all the other things they've done, but I think you guys are going to think this is pretty neat. They're announcing the Linux Academy Foundation open source grant program. They're going to give a $5,000 grant to an open source program, which is pretty awesome.

So they are truly community members. They've given back. Any open source licensed project can apply for this grant. They have an external page up shortly, so we'll tell you more about it when I learn more about it. Linux Academy, this is an email he sent me, said they believe in supporting open source and ensuring great

projects have a lasting future in the community. In order to celebrate and support open source, this is the email he sent to me. This is not even an ad pitch. This is what he wrote me. In order to support open source, the Linux Academy Foundation will be opening applications for open source projects to receive either part or all of the $5,000 grant. We believe in bettering the community, and we are excited to have the help of the Founders Club members. I'll tell you more about the Founders Club members soon. And vote on which projects will receive the grant.

So you can become a member of the Founders Club at Linux Academy, and you can get a say in which projects will receive the grant. I think that's awesome. Linuxacademy.com slash unplug to get our 33% discount, and go try it out. You can apply it to all of the courseware there, and there's a ton of good stuff. Now, Chris, that's only the stuff that they told you about, right? Because here's the thing.

I was at dinner the other night, and we sat down, and what did producer Q5Sys ask? He goes, hey, I heard you talking about XYZ course. Ruby, yeah, Ruby. I don't see that on their site. Yeah, they got Ruby courseware, Python courseware. I know. After Linux Fest, I'm going to have to dig into one of them.

I just don't know which one. So it's one of those things where they offer so many different services and so many different courses, you won't be able to include all those in a sales pitch. You'd almost have to sign up for an account and try it for a month and see what happens. Yeah, you know, it's funny. That's funny you say that because a lot of times I kind, I kind of get, like, in a zone of what I've been interested in. And then I get out of my course when I realize, oh, wow, yeah, that's right. They have, like, a ton of other stuff I should mention from time to time because it's just – it's one of those things where until you go see it yourself, you don't really have an idea of the depth of courseware.

And that's why I really like their model a lot. All right. So let's talk about Angela's switch to Linux. And wow, what a monstrous event this has been. So we ended up deciding that Angela has a MacBook. And she really likes the MacBook. But she's willing to try Linux. So let's get Linux on her MacBook.

But because her pictures and her data are so precious, plus we don't want to interrupt her workflow, MacBook. But because her pictures and her data are so precious, plus we don't want to interrupt her workflow, we set it up on a secondary MacBook, which is actually a pretty good rig. It was a 2011 model, pretty high-end, 16 gigabytes of RAM, 512 gigabyte Apple SSD, dedicated ATI graphics with the extra memory added, a high-resolution, non-reflective screen, Core i7 processor. So this is a high-end MacBook Pro that had died. Yeah. It was dead. I'd say so.

Yeah, it was dead. And then Apple just recently said, hey, so those of you who had this GPU issue a couple of years ago, we'll replace it for free. And so we took the MacBook into Apple's store and we gave them the MacBook and Apple said, your battery's dead. We can't test it. Well, the guy did some magic. He hooked up to a supercharger and he got the battery working and he did a test. He said, yeah, your GPU failed. So we went down there, we picked up the MacBook after they fixed it for free. And he's

like, hey, I threw in a free battery for you too. So they replaced the battery, the logic board, the GPU. So now we essentially have a brand new MacBook that just has 2011 parts, but it's a new motherboard, new GPU, new battery. So we're like, we'll use this as Angela's laptop. That way we don't even hurt her existing laptop, but we will prove the point to her that she'll be able to use Linux on her MacBook. And that was the original sort of idea that we set off with about Friday night. Yeah, yeah.

Well, really, we started out with that. Yeah, I mean, we started talking about it early Friday and then started putting these pieces of the puzzle into action late Friday. And what we kept finding was there was tiny little roadblocks. And you know how you write those off because as somebody who troubleshoots, I mean it wouldn't be any fun if it worked the first time. So it doesn't work so we try something else. It doesn't work and try something else. And we start – we're pinging developers and we're trying different things.

We are literally talking to the developers of the distributions we're trying. And so fast forward 24 hours later, we have now reloaded the machine no less than three times. We now have three different bootloaders. And we've tried it like with OS X, with no OS X, with Refine, with no Refine. We wound up with three bootloaders, Refine, Refit, and Grub, all three of which could get – if you clicked on the right option, you would get into this endless boot cycle where one would boot into the other, would boot into the other, would boot into the other. And eventually, at some point, we decided this just uh this just isn't

going to work so we decided we're going to bed that's it we quit yeah we go to bed i go to take a shower i get back up and reek eyes like no man we're gonna get this to work yeah i'm i'm like halfway through planning an alternative episode yeah i'm like we're never gonna make it what time in the morning is this oh this is about 7 a.m 7 a.m and the linux action should goes live at 10 yeah so so we have like three hours mind you it took us two hours the first time to copy all of What time in the morning is this? Oh, this is about 7 a.m. 7 a.m. And the Linux action should go live at 10 a.m. Yeah. So we have like three hours. Mind you, it took us two hours the first time to copy all of our data. Yeah. But we've gotten pretty good at that at this point because we were figuring out exactly the best way to get that done.

Man, I can change permissions from HFS back to EXT4 like you wouldn't believe. Yeah, right? Yeah. So we're getting this stuff done. And the frustrating thing about it is the computer that we're working on is actually really decent hardware. I don't think there's anyone involved in JB that hates Apple as much as I do. And I have to admit, that's a nice machine. Every time we look at it, we look at it and we're like, actually, that's not a bad machine.

And when we could get things to work, they actually work pretty well. But when you have a new Linux user, and I have dealt with this numerous times, it has to work the first time. You don't have room for failure. Right, definitely. And then we have all these little nuances from the production standpoint that other people maybe would just write off. Like, we have to have HDMI mirroring because we have to show the audience Angela's computer. So if we don't get HDMI, so then that sends us down the path of, okay, that means we now have to get the ATI dedicated graphics working. And then this sends us down to all of these different modes we have to pass the Grub menu, or we have to put in Grub config so that way, or type it in at the Grub menu at boot.

So that way the ATI card gets activated over the Intel card, all these little things. Because we can only boot in UEFI. We can't use the BIOS part. And it's like, if you know what, I was thinking to myself during this time, I was like, man, you man you know if this was my rig i would totally be willing to tinker with this stuff but this is like i don't want to blow this i really really really don't want an opportunity it seriously is i've said it before but like there a crack has opened in the apple ecosystem for us to take advantage for her and her workflow and in my entire relationship with her i've been with her for 17 years i have never had an advantage like this. And I'm like,

this is our moment. Two advantages. Because the other thing was when she sat down and saw Antrigos for the first time, that blew her away. She liked it. And then it was a double punch. She got hit with triple punch. She got hit with an awesome hardware,

awesome software. And then the chat room did a bang up job of saying, Hey, Hey, that's cool that she's using hardcore Linux. And then she got into that. She's like, Hey,

they think they're, they're really proud of me. I'm using real Linux. And now, now, hey, that's cool that she's using hardcore Linux. And then she got into that. She's like, hey, they're really proud of me. I'm using real Linux. And so now anything else like Ubuntu or elementary OS is kind of out of the picture. We have to do Antegra, so we have to do it right. So we were starting to think, you know, the problem is there are a few things that are finicky. Like we're still having problems with dual display, which is a critical part of her workflow for, like, spreadsheet stuff that she's working on. We're still having issues with dual display, which is a critical part of her workflow for spreadsheet stuff that she's working on. We're still having issues with the dedicated graphics.

We can get Intel graphics working, but right now I'm not sure where we're at with the ATI graphics. And so Noah and I have been going back and forth. We really, really, really don't want to mess this up. And we don't want her to have any troubles with this. And if she ever does have troubles, we want to be able to bounce back immediately so that way we don't want her to think, boy, if something ever goes wrong, I'm out

for a couple of days. Because then she's going to be petrified the entire time. I know how she works. That'll scare the crap out of her. It'll scare the crap out of me. So we decided to sort of preemptively grab this Yoga 3 laptop, hoping that it might work out as a little bit more of a stable machine, but still meet those sort of build requirements that she has, the expectations she has from her MacBook, and have the keyboard and all that that she expects from her MacBook, and the weight and portability.

In fact, this thing is thinner than the new MacBook that they keep touting. And it was funny because Lenovo actually sent out a tweet that said, oh, yeah, and then they gave the actual dimensions. They're like, real cool, Apple. That was so last year. And this was also one of the number one recommended laptops from our audience. Now, the thing is, right now, we are not in a position to do this,

especially with LinuxFest coming here. We're totally not in a position to do this. Well, we were out of funds before LinuxFest started. So what we're thinking of doing, and you guys are welcome to have a first crack at it, we're going to put Angela's MacBook we've been talking about up on eBay and see if people want it. Now, because we have it here in the studio,

you can have it however you like. If you'd like to have it with just OS X, we can load it that way. If you'd like to have it with OS X and Arch or Antigros, we can do it that way. If you'd like Arch only, we can also do that and ship it to you that way right straight from the JB1 studio. Now, it's going to get better, Chris, because we're actually offering it at a lower price. So we had a price point in our head, and we started a little bit lower for the Mumble. So if you're in the Mumble room, then you get kind of first crack at a slightly reduced cost before we're going to crank it back up.

The price of the 512 drive when that was new alone was $1,000 in that laptop. Wow. Yeah. Man, we've come a long way. Yeah. Yeah, we really have. And so in the picture here, you're seeing if you're watching the video version, that's the MacBook there running Anticross with GNOME 3 and the GNOME to Shell dock extension there at the bottom. And that's there in the other room.

And it's a good machine. Like, if we had the money, I would just keep this as another production machine. When you keep looking over it and you go, man, it's a nice looking machine. It really was a really all-out, our main workhorse editing machine when the GPU died. And then once the GPU died, it just sat on the shelf and never got used. And then Apple

just refurbed it, basically, for us. I could put it to work if I had the funds. We need to recoup the cost of this. Yeah, we just right now, especially, there's no money, there's no slush there. And if we're going to really be serious and want her to stick with something for a long time, Angela is a savvy enough user that she wants to feel that it's a quality product. She really needs to feel like this is, you know, like she likes the build of the MacBook.

I think this is going to do that. Absolutely. In fact, there are a lot of things I like it actually better about the MacBook. One, it's not a MacBook. And two, it doesn't have an Apple logo on it. And three, it's a little bit thinner, a little bit more portable, I think, than the MacBooks that I've had experience with. That said, though, we're going to put this in the show notes and it's in the chat room right now. I am not an advocate of Linux on a MacBook as your primary unless you're okay with some tinkering.

What we were kind of coming to is set it up and then DD the machine. Yeah. And that could certainly work too. Yep. But if you're a geek, I don't think this is necessarily going to be a problem for you. If you are somebody that wants to set this up for somebody else

and you want them to kind of run with it independently, that's where we have some real concerns. It's a 2011, and so it sort of sits in that spot where Antigros, you get it going pretty easily, and then it takes about 15-20 minutes of tweaks, and then if you really want to dial it in, it's about a little bit more than that once you get the graphics and all that. So it's an

interesting device, and it's available there, and we'll let you know at LinuxFest how it all turns out. We did decide to go with Antigros again on the yoga. Wimpy was asking what do you think wimpy are we crazy yes we've made a catastrophic error of judgment you think we have gonna i've i've made this mistake with my wife i installed arch linux on my wife's computer with gnome 3 and the only way i could keep her on a Linux-based operating system was to make my own damn distribution.

So you've no idea the heartache and effort you're going to be putting into this. So here's what I'm working off of, Wimpy, and tell me where this logic falls apart. So I would be right there with you. If it was up to me and I was picking a Linux distribution for a new user, it would be stock Ubuntu and I would keep it as stock as I possibly could. However, there are three big factors to consider. One, Angela really likes GNOME and she was not only blown away by GNOME, but she was impressed. She's used to using GNOME on Chris's laptop. Add to that, she has tried Ubuntu in the past and that was turned down. So we're working with that. Second of all, and this is a big thing. If it's in my house, I want to be familiar with it because I know who

has to ultimately answer for those problems. And so if we leave here with Angela running Ubuntu or elementary or any of those other distributions, when she has problems and then Chris has to come home and she goes, hey, honey, in addition to the lot in this and this, can you fix this? And then he sits down and he goes, oh, man, I just followed this problem on Arch. I have no idea how to do it on XYZ. So there's that aspect to consider. So here's the thing. So I went through a period where I had all of my immediate family that were running Linux, running Arch Linux.

And you know I am an Arch Linux TU. I'm heavily invested in the Arch Linux community. Right. But it did not go well. This is not an operating system you install on your immediate family's computers that are not Linux savvy. Because what do you do about updates? You're responsible for doing those updates now.

But is that a bad thing? Yes, it is. He maintains control over when those updates now. But is that a bad thing? Yes, it is. He maintains control over when those updates are. Chris, are you busy? I am. I am. But see, my logic is I have like three or four other machines I would do updates on before I do hers. So she would be the last machine I update.

I had the exact same logic. Oh, no! This just doesn't work. You're just not going to get around to that machine. And what happens is months go by and then you think damn it i really need to do the updates and then you've got all of those configuration conflicts to deal with and suddenly what should be a simple task it is a a mess that you need to unpickle and you don't have time to deal with it and uh

you're scaring the crap out of me you're scaring me there's a slight thing that y'all haven't paid attention to there is Rikai because he has nothing to do who is it in the chat room is saying the same thing that I'm thinking KZ6 50 cent Ubuntu Gnome

Angela is not Chris Angela doesn't the what she's missing by running uh ubuntu gnome 314 versus ubuntu gnome 360 yeah chris you might appreciate those differences but angela won't and if you went with that with all of the automatic update utilities that's got built into it, you can just let her accept the update prompts and hit apply now, restart my computer. It sounds logical, but

that makes the most sense to me. You could just use landscape and you could remotely update her machine. Supporting large for my wife, I would sooner play in a blender. Well, see, I think also – I don't know. I mean I don't want to totally discredit Angela's ability. Your wife runs Arch.

She does and she installed it herself. Wow. And she knows probably less about – can I say that on air or am I going to get in trouble? Hold on. Think. Yeah. I think she knows less about Linux and technology than Angela does. And she was able to follow the wiki and figure it out.

I don't. I mean, I don't know. I am always for. What, man? What? RIP. No, everyone's saying RIP. No.

No, it's one of those things where I organically, I agree that that stock Ubuntu is usually going to be better for users. But in this particular case, having seen Angela's immediate reaction and having seen how she reacts to when she's using Chris's computer, I think in this particular case, since everyone is kind of in that Arch mode. And you know who does this? Linus Torvalds himself does this. He uses Fedora. And so he makes sure that all of his other computers in his house are using Fedora. And he specifically said that's because he doesn't like to run multiple distributions in his house. Yeah, I mean, that's even why I put it on my server. I can totally get behind that. See, but I feel like all you guys are saying, don't run this for your wife's computer,

are also the same guys that tell me don't run it on my server. Yeah. No, no, that's not me at all. I'm just the guy that says that. Yeah, I mean, you're scaring me the most. Because he makes the most sense. Because he's been there. Nine months in, it's easier to maintain a whole distribution

than look after one arch in its installation on your wife's computer. Yeah. I'd have to agree with you this time, Wimpy, because there is a lot of kernel tweaks that go into the Ubuntu kernel, which kind of help a little bit of the hardware. But then here's where I get to. If I'm going to go with an Ubuntu base, then I start getting pulled towards elementary. And I love Mate, but I start

thinking, well, then I should give her something that'll really give her, you know, sort of a sex appeal that sort of she's used to. You were saying that Angela likes the Gnome desktop, so why don't you go with Ubuntu Gnome? We were just talking about all the advantages of PPAs earlier on in the show.

You know, because what I was thinking is... Because it kind of comes down to either elementary OS or Ubuntu Mate 1504. Well, let's be clear. It wasn't so much GNOME specifically that drew her to it. It was the fact that she was using the same hardcore Linux that you were using. When you install

Ubuntu GNOME, then that changes. Well, yeah. it's not the same thing so i wonder if the appeal for her is going to change and that brings us back to elementary i guess if you i'm sorry good oh i was gonna say i guess if you mirror and like if you have if you keep frequent mirrors of everything to where it's just done it's like everything's it goes to crap you just push a button it all reverts back to what it was five minutes ago it's fine whatever i mean if you if you have a push button solution for it all reverts back to what it was five minutes ago. It's fine, whatever. I mean, if you have a push-button solution for it, it makes sense. But I just don't grasp the advantage of Arch on it.

Here's what we do. I just don't get it. I think you're right. I think what we do is we let Angela pick. Do you want Arch or do you want Ubuntu Betay 1504? And here's the other thing, too. The nice thing about this over the old Silver Sliver is with this, when she changes her mind, it's a matter of plugging in a different USB drive

and restarting the machine. Yes, true. It's no longer a weekend project her mind, it's a matter of plugging in a different USB drive and restarting the machine. It's no longer a weekend project. Yeah, all right. That's true. So we'll make her a pitch, and we'll let her make the choice and see what she thinks is best. I wouldn't be surprised if she goes with Arch,

and then we'll load the yoga either way she chooses. Well, and make sure you're using a laser pointer and PowerPoint slides, because that really will help get your point across. Yeah, I love it. Remember, Chris, a lot of users don't ever realize or notice the underlying operating system very much. It's always

the desktop experience. Yep. Always. I agree. I agree. I just want to make sure it's one that she'll like. And I think we'll find it, and we'll let you guys know. And so that eBay auction is up now. And don't worry, it's going so fast because I don't think we'll find it. And we'll let you guys know. And so that eBay auction is up now. And don't worry, it's going so fast because I don't think we've had it.

We had zero bids. Zero bids. Yeah. No, that's kind of what I expected. Won't stay that way for long, though. You think? And as someone at eBay, it's frequently, watch for the snipers.

You'll see it pick up. Yeah, I said the same thing. Well, I'll tell you about another great deal. How about our friends over at Ting? Go to linux.ting.com. That'll get $25 off your first device or $25 of credit if you have a Ting-compatible device, and you probably do. Plus, it supports this show.

Ting's got a GSM and CD-MA network coverage, so when I say you probably have a device that works, you probably do. There's a lot of them. Ting is mobile that makes sense. Ting's my mobile service provider. Ting's Matt's mobile service provider. Ting is Noah's mobile service provider. We all use Ting, and we all love it. Do you have both phones with you right now, or just the one? I have one. Oh, it's in the car. Yeah, the other one's Matt's mobile service provider. Ting is Noah's mobile service provider. We all use Ting and we all love it.

Do you have both phones with you right now or just the one? I have one. Oh, it's in the car. Yeah, the other one's in the car. You know why? Because it's so small. I forget it everywhere. Well, why not? I mean, it's... Noah got one of those $9 GSM SIM cards from Ting and then he just pays for what he used. He just takes minutes and messages, megabytes, and they add them all up. Whatever bucket

he falls into, that's what he pays. It's a flat $6 for the line. So he can have an emergency phone with a $9 SIM sitting in his car that has two weeks of battery life, and he's just paying for what he uses, which is not very much. That's why Jupiter Broadcasting is able to have three lines, because I don't have a lot of money, but at Ting, we just pay for what we use, and we make a ton of Wi-Fi calls. And they have some great devices on Ting. I'd like to recommend the Moto G if you're looking for a value device. $91, unlocked, modern version of Android. You own it.

$6 for the line. No contract. That's pretty sweet. Now, it does get a little more crazy after that. Ting has just started directly selling the OnePlus One. I think that's pretty awesome. You can now buy the Ting. From Ting, you can get the OnePlus

unlocked, get it on Ting. It's yours. You own it. What a great device. What a great device for a Ting network. What a perfect device for the Ting network. And then also, if you're like me and you've been looking at that Moto X 2, second gen, Ting is now selling that directly as well. Unlocked. You own it. That's your

rig. Go take it on the Ting network or if you have a GSM or CDMA device that works with them, you get $25 a service credit. That might pay for more than your first month. It did for mine. Yeah. A smartphone for under $25 a month. It is actually possible. Linux.ting.com. They got no hold customer service, a fantastic

dashboard, and I really, really love the way they do business. Check them out. Linux.ting.com. And a big thanks to Ting for sponsoring Linux Unplugged. I said, did you see this story about the John Deere tractors and stuff and the software? I'll just recap this for all of you who are maybe not following the story. It sort of lit up in our subreddit today.

But the headline from Wired reads, We can't let John Deere destroy the very idea of ownership. That's pretty bold. Yeah. In a particular spectacular display of corporate delusion, John Deere, the world's largest architectural machinery maker, told the Copyright Office that farmers don't own their tractors because the computer code snakes through the DNA of modern tractors farmers receive.

Farmers receive an implied license for the life of the vehicle to operate the vehicle. In other words, it's John Deere's tractor. You're just driving it. Several manufacturers recently submitted similar comments to the Copyright Office under an inquiry into the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Kerry Adams, a farmer, hasn't been able to fix

an expensive transplanter because he doesn't have access to the diagnostic software he needs. He isn't alone. Many farmers are opting for older, computer-free equipment because of this very problem. Some companies have even leveraged the DMCA to stop owners from modifying programming on those products. So you might be wondering, what does copyright have to do with

modifying a tractor? Well, owners can tinker, you know, and you have homebrew hackers. They have to copy programming in order to modify it in the first place. Product makers don't like people messing with their stuff, so some manufacturers place DRM. When you break the DRM and make a copy,

you are essentially violating copyright law. And that's how manufacturers can turn tinkers into pirates, and even if said pirates aren't circulating illegal copies of anything. John Deere, the company, argues that allowing people to alter the software, even for purposes of repair, would make it possible for pirates and third-party developers and less innovative competitors to free ride off the creativity and unique expression and ingenuity of the

vehicle software. And the piece of resistance, as they say, piece of the resistance, in John Deere's argument, permitting owners to root around in the tractor's programming might lead to pirating music through the vehicle's entertainment system. Oh, they're really reaching here.

Okay, so there's a few things wrong with this entire... First of all, if someone's going to actually decide to break the DRM, they're going to find a way to do it. Second of all, if they're doing it for themselves because they've purchased the equipment, congratulations. They're already a customer.

Let's not piss them off. And third of all, pirating music, I mean, the whole thing, they're just completely reaching for it. I mean, I watched a documentary yesterday showing how you can take most cars and trucks made after 1996, flash the software, and wait for it, run alternative fuels. Right now. No additional hardware. So, you know, but because it's illegal to change that software, same basic thing, this is not a new problem.

It's just now coming to light. And the value of this is negative. So you're saying, Matt, that people are not buying $25,000 tractors to pirate music, and I have to agree with that. I look at this in a situation where it's obvious what they're trying to do is just lock things down and use copyright to do it. But it's a pretty scary thing when everything has software in it. And it's not just – so we're picking on John Deere.

General Motors told the Copyright Office that proponents of copyright reform mistakenly conflate ownership of a vehicle with ownership of the underlying computer software in the vehicle, That, of course, you need to drive the car. Right. Yeah. Convenient, right? I got to be honest, as a Linux user, this really kind of pisses me off. Mm-hmm. That should scare you. This really kind of pisses me off.

Mm-hmm. That should scare you. It should scare you that it's culturally acceptable that we can sell a device that you... The concept even 10, 15 years ago of buying a computer that you didn't have administrative access to would be ridiculous. And yet we allow this now consistently. With smartphones. With smartphones. Apparently with tractors. Apparently with cars.

We just don't think about it. Hmm. It's not good. Yeah. Apparently with tractors. Apparently with cars. We just don't think about it. It's not good. Yeah. Root it all. Yeah. Yeah. You do make them. If this is true, what's their liability with errors in that software that lead to loss of life?

I do wonder about that. Other automakers have pointed out that owners who make unsanctioned modifications. Ooh, I like that one. Could alter their vehicles in bad ways. They could tweak them to go faster or change engine parameters to run a foul. You know, like APR tuning? I could tune my engine to run faster, too. Give me a break.

Or I could just apply more pressure to that pedal on the right, and I could also go faster without altering the software. Again, the argument's idiotic. It is pretty weak, isn't it? It's terrible. GM says that locking people out helps innovation. This week, though, there is some good news. Senator Ron Wyden and Senator Jared Polis, I think is the last name, will introduce the Breaking Down Barriers to Innovation Act of 2015, which might help improve the DMCA process.

We'll see. Although the fair repair legislation also has some work to do. Well, we'll see where that goes. What were you going to say, Rod? I'm sorry. There was a Toyota had a problem with their gas pedal got stuck. Yeah. And it was a software issue that you had to go to their dealership to get it to fix it.

If it wasn't proprietary, you could actually fix it yourself. Toyota moving you forward whether you want to or not. This kind of stuff is particularly spooky for those of us who are really hyper aware of how important software is to pretty much everything we get involved with now, everything we use. And it does kind of make you think RMS was right in a way. I guess it's kind of what he's been saying all along. Right. I'm just saying. I think, and unfortunately, the unfortunate thing for RMS is perhaps...

I think it's wasted effort perhaps it's been wasted effort because here we are anyways so what worries me about this is not just the big devices like tractors that are used by farmers but also the little devices like light bulbs you know the fact that you have to firmware update your light bulbs or firmware update your fridge or something and they can can choose, if you've hacked it in some way, they can choose not to let that work. And so you're left in darkness or you're left with rotting food in your fridge

because they've chosen not to allow you to fiddle with the stuff. And yeah, I agree with you. I think RMS was right in some ways with these things. Wow. Or even expanding on that, imagine if they thought that you adjusted it or they thought that you made an adjustment when in reality you didn't actually do anything. But because you've been labeled as such, we get the same result that was just pointed out to us. That's scary.

Daredevil, you wanted to make a developers on blah, blah, blah, which already happens in certain fields, but it's going to expand to all of the fields. Like you have for doctor, for software, because it will be everywhere. And you will have blah, blah, blah specification or certification. And a lot of the innovation will be just stagnating. I mean, ultimately, that's what the locking down leads to. If you do have access to the car, you have to pass blah, blah, blah specification. Then, I mean, you're just going to study for that particular field. You're right. That is sort of the inevitable conclusion of this logic, and that's a great point I hadn't thought of.

W.W., I wanted to give you a chance to jump in on how you see this kind of happening with digital media today. It's already happening. I mean, the WikiLeaks stuff that just came out from the Sony hack that everybody that's in this IRC and in Mumble who watches TechSnap knows that Sony had that big half and now we're seeing the consequences

of that and what these companies are really doing behind your back you have the evidence that anybody can go to Wikileaks and just look it up and you can see the interaction between these different companies on digital media and they want to control the content, they want to control what you see

on any U.S. website now. So where's it going to end? People should be literally up in arms about this and they're not. And that's what I think is... You know what they're doing? And this, of course, only benefits me, but I think they're just going somewhere else.

I think they're going to alternative media. I think they're going to podcasts. They're going to internet media. And those of us that become more aware of it, we seek out independent entertainment. And I think they're going to alternative media. I think they're going to podcasts. They're going to internet media. And those of us that become more aware of it, we seek out independent entertainment. And I think they are going to be the catalyst of their own downfall because people will realize Brian Williams is just the tip of the iceberg, my friends. Yeah. And you can jump on. You know, it's funny, too, when I when I pick up a new passion or new hobby, one of the first things I'll do is I'll jump on YouTube and I'll take a look

and see what other people have channels and that they're talking about it. It's kind of fun, right? Yeah, you don't go on TV anymore for that kind of stuff. No, no. So maybe it's actually all for the good in the long run. We'll see. But it is pretty frustrating to watch this kind of stuff happen. And I would love to see Ron Wyden successful with the Breaking Down Barriers to Innovation Act.

And you, of course, I will have information in the show notes. And the link to Wired, the link I have to Wired has links where you can contact the Copyright Office. And the URL to do that is specific for the DMCA. It's dmca.digitalrightrepair.org. dmca.digitalrightrepair.org. And they have a way for you to contact people and representatives. I'll put a link to that in the chat room, too, if you guys want to get involved with that. So maybe that can help. Maybe we can make a difference.

Maybe good old Ron Wyden can help us out as well. Yeah. I'm probably one of those guys that's going to stand there on the top of my hood with both my middle fingers out going, I'm doing it. Bite me. That's just me. Because that's more how I roll. I'll be there with you. I'll bring the hot dogs.

Okay? Set up a legal defense fund and just say this on me. Matt. Because that's more how I roll. I'll be there with you. I'll bring the hot dogs. Okay? Set up a legal defense guard and just say this on them. Yeah. I'll have the hot dogs. Matt will bring something gluten-free. You bring the beer. Okay. And that'll be our protest.

Actually, that sounds a little bit like Friday night, Matt. I don't know if you have any plans Friday, but after we get set up at Bellingham for LinuxFest, we're going to take the crew out to dinner. I'd love to have you join us all. I'll contact you later in the week. I'll talk to you tomorrow about that. I. I'd love to have you join us all. I'll contact you later in the week. I'll talk to you tomorrow about that. I'll see you tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll know more. Tell you all about our cool plans on the weekend. And so for those of you out in the audience, we want you to join us, jblive.tv, Saturday and Sunday. Or come say hi at LinuxFest Northwest. It's going to be really good. It'll be good to see all you guys there. Anything else we need to cover before we get out of here?

Somebody buy that MacBook. Yeah, do that. That'll help us out a lot. Also, linuxactionshow.reddit.com to make this you guys there. Anything else we need to cover before we get out of here? Somebody buy that MacBook. Yeah, do that. That'll help us out a lot. Also, linuxactionshow.reddit.com to make this show even better. jupiterbroadcasting.com slash contact and jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar for updates. See you next week, everybody. I think Wimpy talked me into 1504. I will get this. Oh, really?

Maybe. I don't know. It's going to be so much easier. I'm going to call Ash. You think it would be easier, really? Yeah. Because I don't have to do this live installer thing and then all the drivers are working. But here's a sign of a broadcasting professional.

When you hear the outro coming up and you're like, I will get everything I'm about to say out before the music starts right at the right perfect cut point, so it sounds like it. Your voice elevates right up to that. Right there, it's like I'm doing an auction. I have a question. I'm using 1504, no, free at the moment, and it's awesome. It's wonderful. It's really, really, really really really really fast really reliable i haven't had one single problem on it i've got a four gig laptop with uh intel

onboard graphics card nothing special and it just runs it perfectly what's the uh support is it nine months for 1504? Yeah. Yes. Everything non-LTS is nine months. Yeah, that's what I thought. What do you dislike about LTS? Stable nonsense. No. No problems.

Nonsense. No. LTS, Chris. Really? I second that, sir. I second that. So, Chris. So boring, you guys. The Ubuntu GNOME team maintain their own PPAs with the updated version of the desktop in there.

So you can install the LTS. You can add the PPAs for the desktop and the other applications that are important to you. And you can just maintain semi-rolling applications on top of a standard base. When I said to you, are you busy, Chris, the extension of that question is, when do you have free time to update Angela's computer when she is not using it? All right. But you don't.

You use Landscape. This is my point. You on your machine, you log into landscape and you press a button that says update all my computers and it just does it and you don't worry yeah it does it but unfortunately what we're talking about here is potentially chris having one ubuntu machine on the home network not not 10 ubuntu machines on the home now all right well so now i'm wondering so i'm trying to add it to my add it to my account and I'll update it. So do I go...

So is it really better to go Ubuntu 14.04 with GNOME 3 PBAs or Mate 14.04? What do you think she'd like better? Probably GNOME. Why don't you ask her, Chris? Why don't you try them both and see

if either of them work? And in Ubuntu 14.04, you've got that interface switcher with that Mac-like interface, so you can share with that. That's where everyone kind of falls off because this has to get done by the end of today so that she can try it. We're going to get her back on. Yeah. We're swapping her out like this. We want to get her back into production. Because you realize every day that she doesn't have her new computer is one more day that we have to go collect all the data off of her existing computer and move it all over.

So there is no doing this twice. We need to get it right the first time. Why is the first time three times a go right? Well, we're stopping to redo a right. We just don't want to go that way. Just because Arch kind of screwed up your plans doesn't mean you're going to. Arch didn't screw up the plans. The MacBook screwed up the plans. How does't mean you can't do what you're supposed to. No, the plans. The MacBook screwed up the plans.

How does Arch have anything to do with the plans? In fact, if anything, Arch has been the easiest distribution out of all of them to get running on there. We couldn't get elementary to boot. We couldn't get Ubuntu to boot. We couldn't get... What else did we try? And Noah's not like some Arch maniac over here. No, in fact, I really dislike Arch.

In this particular case, he's right. It's the only one that even booted on the system. Much less... Let's look at this logically. Okay, so we've established that Arch is working. Ubuntu at some level wasn't really working out previously. At all. But even though I'm not an Arch guy anymore, necessarily, that kind of gravitates

us to just sticking with what's working, I think. But now it doesn't matter because now we're on the yoga. Well, okay. Oh, I see what you're saying I see what you're saying okay so based on that stick with gnome Ubuntu gnome done you know she's already grown to like the desktop environment keep it simple you know jbtyles.com very rarely I rarely ever recommend Ubuntu but here I am doing it I feel like I feel like we recommend Ubuntu because we're all scared I feel like like we do it because we're scared of Linux, we're scared of rolling software. It's a practical thing. It is a practical scared thing because it's bitten me enough times and I'm willing to be scared about it.

I know, I just hate giving in. So let's say you have Arch, which has like, it's just this flood of perfectly flawless updates. Or you have, and I'm saying that without laughing, because I've broken shit so many times. Or you have Ubuntu, which, you know, can still have issues obviously. You know and I'm saying that without laughing, or you have Ubuntu, because I've broken shit so many times, or you have Ubuntu, which, you know, can still have issues, obviously. You know, both options can roll back their packages just fine, easy enough, no big deal.

But I have less wonderful updates on one than I do the other. I guess for her, I guess for her now that... Why is someone exposing Kubuntu? I get, you know... Yeah, all right, all right. JBTitles.com, let's get this thing banged out. I just want to tell you, five minutes, I can have puppy on there.

What's that? I said five minutes, I can have puppy on there. That's all you gotta say. Oh dear, RMS was right. It's not bad. That's excellent, actually. Chris, does she not like Unity at all? No, she does not. But once you depart from Ubuntu,

I almost say, did the Risky get my head bit off? I almost say Elementary. You know, guys, she doesn't like Unity because she has choice. Elementary has a lot of issues. Why don't you make that USB stick?

Yeah. Boutique just goes and makes a lot of issues. I've had a lot of issues. Yeah. I've had a lot of issues. I have a has made these things. I've had a lot of issues with their... I agree. But it's not an issue in elementary. Elementary OS is a little bit too far removed

from the parent project. Well, to be honest, I would probably be more willing to go with it, but it's in beta. Yeah, that's true. No, it wasn't. They released it. No, it was released. I still don't like the release. No, that it's in beta. Freya is. Yeah, that's true. No, it wasn't. They released it. I thought it was in beta.

No, that was the final version. What? If you ignore the 3,700 bugs in Launchpad, it's final release. Oh, okay. Yep, they're doing great. I just thought it was in beta. They only care about making a desktop. Really.

All the applications that I and Julia probably need isn't part of Elementary's vision, so they don't care about anything else other than their Pantheon and Blessed applications. Well, no, she needs the web browser, she needs photo, and she needs mail, and they do all that, but yeah. Well, all right.

And they update absolutely everything, so you still have to manage updates for everything. I think right now I'm leaning... If only three people are doing it, you guys are all concerned if something is maintained or not really. Put someone relying on that. I think either way...

I think either way we go, it's going to be okay. So I'm not too worried about it. Go safe with Ubuntu to start off initially. And then if you want to go to Arch or something like that once she's been on it a little bit longer and got used to it, then go for it then.

Here's the end of the thing. Let me paint you a picture. You've got two three-week circumstances. Three weeks from now, you're like, oh crap, I haven't updated that for a while. Which distro do you want to be faced with when doing that? So I'll let you guys know which way we go. We'll get the

installation going here in a few minutes once we get off air, and we'll update you guys soon. Have a great week, and I'll see you tomorrow, Matt. All right, I'll see you then.