LINUX Unplugged - Episode 90: How The Fest Was Fun | LUP 90

Episode Date: April 29, 2015

Exclusive interviews from the floor of LinuxFest Northwest 2015, meet the man who brought Netflix to Linux & changed the WINE project forever, how Intel builds the MinnowBoard for Linux, the state of ZFS on Linux & how we had so much fun it just might be illegal.Plus a quick look at the new KDE Plasma update, Telegram’s surprising popularity & more!

I know you know this already, I'm sure, but we used Ubuntu Mate 14.04 for our broadcast station, and it worked like a champ. It was great. I was grinning ear to ear when I heard that that's what you'd use. That was brilliant. It was perfect because it gave us enough of a – there are certain things we needed to be able to do that are sort of like a traditional workflow. For example, I was thinking over art assets and Noah needed to be able to look at a bunch of files in Nautilus or whatever the file manager is called and open them up in Inkscape and modify them. So there was some need to have sort of a more traditional work desktop environment on the

broadcast machine, but it doesn't need to be anything very high end because it really doesn't do much more other than the broadcast. It's just when we sit down to use it so it was perfect because the low resources meant that the rest of the resources went to the broadcast and it was just, it was perfect it was exactly what we needed so

I know that you've been using Ubuntu Marte for some production use and there's a podcast that I I'm now, I think I'm officially a member of the team. I think that happened last time or the time before. Anyway, but there's a podcast that I do with Poppy and Laura and Mark now. And 50% of that is done with Ubuntu Mate.

And I know a couple of YouTubers that are doing all of their stuff on Ubuntu Mate and I know of a radio station in the US that's using Ubuntu Mate for their radio. So it's becoming quite popular as a broadcast platform. And when I heard Noah and Alan talking about their trials and tribulations with setting up that machine and sleep deprivation and all the rest of it it got me thinking you know maybe there's the opportunity to create an ubuntu mate broadcaster alternative image which comes pre-packaged with you know the tools that a broadcaster would want to use.

So things like Mumble and OBS and video editors and audio editors. And I don't know what those tools are. But, you know, if you can speed up the deployment and have an out-of-the-box. I mean, there's already Ubuntu Studio, which does that by building on top of Xubuntu. But yeah, it got me thinking maybe there's some collaboration potential on that. Yeah, and that is very... It is already a bit of an advantage, we noticed, because a lot of times when we would set up a production machine,

then there is sort of... Setting up the... Actually installing the OS is sort of the fastest part of it. Because then you go to the vendor's website, you go get your login because you purchased the software and you have to log in now. And then you get the download links and then you download it and then you generate the serial number. And of course you install it. And then after you install it, you restart and all that good stuff. And then you come back online and then you launch the application and then you put the serial number in and then you activate the application and then you begin the setup process. Right. Of course. And that's assuming there wasn't any

drivers you had to load for the capture card, which there always are. So all of these things are just completely eliminated when you do it under Linux. It's already so much faster that we were just like blown away. So I can only imagine like if it was even more streamlined. And I know one thing we're thinking about doing is an image, but the primary challenge is that, and this is one thing that I've always kind of worried about the nut to crack under Linux, is there is a fine line to walk where the system would get so stagnant that like OBS would be held back or OBS would be held back, for example, because

maybe we need a newer version of FFmpeg or something like that. So there's this line where I'm like, okay, today we can use a 14.04 installation. I'm not so sure if next, in fact, I would be shocked if next year at LinuxFacts Northwest, we were still on Ubuntu 14.04. I just, I would bet that all the underlying technology, since it's being developed so rapidly, is going to move forward. And I would bet that it just won't work for us. I don't know what we'll be on, but I bet it's not 14.04 next year. Yeah, quite possibly. One of the things I've been looking at is the idea of software channels. So there's lots and lots of PPAs out there, but it's up to you to decide the quality of those PPAs

and if they're just delivering a single package that they want or if it's everything under the sun and you don't quite know what else you're going to drag in as a result of adding them. So I've had this idea of software channels with a ui where you can turn on like the ffmpeg software channel or the mumble software channel and it's by application and instead of you having to go and find the ppas you just enable the applications that you're interested in and it turns on sort of pre-vetted quality PPAs that deliver those

packages. So typically the PPAs that are made by the developers rather than, you know, enthusiasts and hobbyists that might have a PPA of just, you know, a load of stuff that they want on their machine. That would be, and of course that's how users think of it too, is by the application. machine. And of course, that's how users think of it, too, is by the application. Yeah, exactly. So you have an icon and you say enable Mumble channel or enable FFmpeg channel or VLC channel or LibreOffice 4.4 channel or whatever it might be. Yeah, that's interesting. And you know, the other thing that's great about Linux is when we decide, okay, well, now it's time to add in the audio stream. It's like, okay, well, we'll just go install DarkCast. And it's just, it is, once all of the stuff gets in place, it is so much easier to do it under Linux once the software is ready.

Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that's still hung over from LinuxFest Northwest 2015. My name is Chris. And my name is Matt. Hey there, Matt. I swear, I had two beers over the course of the entire LinuxFest Northwest, and yet somehow I feel hungover. I felt hungover for a couple of days, and then I realized it wasn't so much the fest itself,

it was like the six or seven days leading up to the fest that crushed me. Because I actually, like, Saturday night after LinuxFest, I went to bed like at 9 o'clock. Oh, yeah? Yeah, we went to the after party. The after party wasn't so good. But we went to the after party, and then I left after about 10 minutes. And, yeah, iMacon shamed me in the chat room for only having two beers. It gets worse, iMacon.

After that, I went back to the hotel room at like around 9 o'clock, and I fell asleep after watching Obama's White House Correspondents thing. And the rest of the group went out and played the Cards Against Humanity, and it was up to like 1 in the morning. And meanwhile, I'm sleeping. I'm saying, even though I went to bed early, I still didn't get enough sleep. I don't know what it is, Matt. So today, we're going to cover some of the best interviews we got from the floor of LinuxFest Northwest 2015.

If you watched the Linux Action Show, you saw the interviews we got live as people stopped by the booth during the show. But LinuxFest Northwest went Saturday and Sunday. And it's sort of a phenomenon that happens at these fests. The sessions let out, and man, it is like a herd of people just, they swarm the floor, and it gets nuts. And then kind of the sessions fill back up, and the floor kind of empties out. And all of the cool people that are sitting at the different booths all of a sudden have nothing to do. And so they stop by our booths, and they talk to us. And so we sat down with Alan.

Of course, Alan from TechSnap. He's going to give us an update on the state of ZFS on Linux and describe how boot volumes work for us. Also, a guy from Intel who's working on getting the Intel Minnow board to be a premier Linux device. And he talks about why Linux is just the best platform for these Intel Minnow boards. These are these boards that are designed to compete with like the ARM type boards. It's really fascinating because it's what you get from an ARM board, like a Raspberry Pi, but an x86 chip on there, like a full-fledged Intel chip. So he's going to talk to us about that and running Linux.

And then the guy who brought Netflix to Linux originally and got the whole snowball rolling that eventually brought native playback joins us to talk about all of that and wine's critical role in moving people over to Linux. Plus, towards the end of the show, we might just have a clip that could land us in a bit of legal trouble. So it is a great show today, and audio or video, there's going to be a little something for everybody, Matt. So why don't we start getting into it? Before we go too far,

we've got to bring in our awesome Mumble Room. So time-appropriate greetings, Mumble Room. Time-appropriate greetings. Hello. Hello. I love it. Like a wave of voices. Yeah, it is like doing the wave a little bit.

All right, guys. Well, you guys are like our virtual Linux Fest every single week. Who needs to go anywhere? We'll just talk to you guys. That's not actually true at all. That's not true. No, it's not true. But it doesn't matter.

Hey, so we have many things to cover, but I had one story that just kind of slipped out between Linux Action Show and this show that I wanted to give some coverage to because it's a pretty good release, and it's one I've been looking forward to for a little while now. Excuse me. Mr. Sys, I'm getting an echo back from your mic

over there. Thank you, sir. All right, so it's a news release that I've been looking forward to for a while. It's KDE Plasma 5.3. This is a big, big deal. This is a really big release of the Plasma desktop. This is one where I've been looking forward to for a while. It's KDE Plasma 5.3. This is a big, big deal. This is a really big release of the Plasma desktop. This is one where I think people might want to consider switching to Plasma 5 if you've been holding back.

And it adds a few new interesting features as well, specifically around enhanced power management. And boy, did these guys go for it, and gals, when they decided to make this feature. They've built in a lot of features from Intel's PowerTop application right into the KDE Info GUI Center. Now, Matt, if you bring up the power management section in KInfo Center, they will now integrate the PowerTop readings right into the graphing so you can see what applications are consuming the most power. And it generates you an energy consumption graph kind of like you see on android it's really

sick well this pisses me off because now i want to use kde again it just totally it's like come on guys stop it i know stop innovating damn it i'm trying to like find a desktop and stick to it knock it off i know jeez hold on i just decided i'm a gnome guy don't do this to me right do this uh wait there's more. I don't know what this means exactly, but also now screen brightness changes are animated on most hardware. I don't know what that means. What? I don't know how you animate a screen brightness change other than I'm glad it's animated. I like that.

I know I like that. Yeah. Well, and that could go a couple different ways. I mean, were we talking about like doing a Disney cartoon or are we talking about actually like a transition? I don't know. Yeah. That could be interesting. It's like an OpenGL fade or mean, were we talking about, like, doing a Disney cartoon, or are we talking about actually, like, a transition? I don't know. Yeah. That could be interesting. It's like an OpenGL fade, or yeah, or is it something completely different?

Also, they completely revamped the Bluetooth management applet, so it looks really good and much clearer to connect to available Bluetooth devices. And the touchpad configuration, well, I don't know if I'd say it looks good. I mean, it's a touchpad configurator, but boy, is it cray. It'll even emulate little areas for you to drag and click to test stuff and set up action corners for the top left, top right, bottom right, bottom left of your trackpad. You can do tap and drag gestures. You can set locked drags and tap detection timers and all of these things that, of course, you'd only be able to do under KDE. And I'm not going to say it's the best UI to do it, but at the same time, I'm glad they're not taking away some of the power toys.

So I'll take it. That is... Now, see this? Yeah, this changes everything. Improved widgets all along, too. New clipboard app that gains support for showing barcodes, which is kind of crazy, but easy to transfer something from your clipboard to your Android device.

They now have a recent contacts and recent documents menu that's been cleaned up. The whole menu thing looks really good. The whole thing looks really good. And the tech preview of Plasma Media Center has been added to this release. They say it's fully stable, but missing features. So version one will have more features,

but they say it's stable now. Wow. Wow. Also huge steps towards supporting Wayland. So boom shakalaka. The Plasma desktop keeps chugging right along. I mean, like, I go out of my way to dislike KDE, and I'm having a really hard time right now

because it's like, this is really compelling. I mean, and I'm not a fan. So this is saying something here. I'm not going to dig any deeper. I'm not going to dig that hole any deeper, but I'll just say, I'll just give you this, man. I'm impressed. Yeah, there you go.

Hey, so before we even started the show, Wimpy jumped on and Wimpy asked me, he said, so Chris, what's the latest with Angela's switch to Linux? How is it going? And I thought I would open up our update on Angela's switch to Linux and her whole switch to a Yoga 3 by capturing a special moment that happened on the live stream at LinuxFest this weekend. Think Penguin was there and they were giving out stickers for you to place over the Windows key

on your keyboard. And so we thought the proper way to christen Angela's new laptop was to get rid of that Windows super key and put a Tux Penguin on there. So I'll open up the Yoga update segment with this clip. You can't work hard on this.

Okay. To put that Tux sticker over the Windows key. Oh, that would be interesting. It's right here. It's right here. Or you can use that one if you want. There you go. If you want to Tux that Windows button.

All right. All right. The tension builds. Noah gets the sticker ready as I fold the yoga screen back By the power vested in me By the gnu And the penguins And the beard

I now pronounce you No longer freedom hating garbage But instead Freedom respecting That's beautiful Noah So beautiful Cheed There we go ladies and gentlemen Respecting. That's beautiful, Noah. So beautiful. Cheed.

Give me now a kiss of yoga. There we go, ladies and gentlemen. It now has a tux. Somebody better kiss that computer. Oh, yeah. Noah kisses the computer. Very nice. Not a dry eye. Very, very nice.

Not a dry eye. It was a very emotional moment. So now Angela has a Linux penguin on the button. Now, okay, so what did we end up doing? So the MacBook sold, thank goodness. The MacBook sold, so the yoga is going to be paid for. Thank goodness. Now, I left the studio that night after Linux unplugged, and I said to Noah,

and I wish Noah was here so we could get an answer, and if anybody in the mumble room knows the answer, Mr. Sis, you might know the answer, I don't know, but if anybody or Blaster might know, I left here thinking that we were going to put Ubuntu Mate 14.04, we're going to go LTS, and then we sort of go, you know what, we'll do this.

We'll do LTS, and we'll do GNOME 3.14. We'll do the GNOME PPA because she likes GNOME, and alright, so we'll do GNOME 3.14. We'll do the GNOME PPA because she likes GNOME. All right. So we'll do that. And one thing led up to another, and I don't exactly know exactly what transpired, but I kid you not, when I got back in here the next morning, it was running Arch. And when I left, he was installing Ubuntu. I literally have no idea quite what happened while we switched from Ubuntu LTS with GNOME PPA to Arch. But we did. And so that's what she has is an Arch box with GNOME 3.16 on it. So far, she's quite happy and everything seems to be working.

Mr. Sis, do you know why he didn't go with LTS? Were you in the room when that decision was made? Yes, I was. I was there. I was part of the decision. I can confess to that. However, there is a nondisclosure agreement that was agreed to at the time. So all members would have to be around to then agree that we can't disclose that decision-making process.

Okay, so before we can reveal the reason, we have to bring Noah on the show and get his consent, and maybe Alan, too, since he was present, and... And Rekhi. Okay, okay. I might have to get consent from Rekhi off-air, perhaps. But this is... Either way, what I want to focus on is that she actually...

She said something to me over dinner that made all of the work worth it. She said, I think this is the time it's going to stick. Because the difference, and I want to reiterate and underscore this, if you can afford to do it, the difference is she really likes that hardware. She likes that laptop. She feels like she got something nice, and it is something nice. And it's set up just for her.

And we also went through and cleaned up some of her old data and offline some of it, and we just sort of did some general hygiene stuff as well. And I think overall, she's missing a few things, and there's a couple of threads going in the Linux Action Show subreddit. Like she used a Pixelmator, which is sort of like a Photoshop alternative under OS X. She doesn't have anything quite equivalent to that. She's looking at Corita and Inkscape. I don't know if that's going to do it for her or not, but there's threads going on and on about that. But so far, it looks like it's actually going to stick.

And I don't know. I'm not totally comfortable with the Arch thing, but since we were going to do it before and I was okay with it, I'm okay with it now. I'll stay on top of it for a little bit, I guess. Delegate, my friend. Delegate. I'm telling you.

We've got to get that reason. We've got to get that reason in here and find it out. Or Linux Academy. One or the other. Either way. Actually, she was also, I think this whole thing has given her a boost of confidence because then she was kind of giving me a hard time teasing me that she was going to learn Python before I do.

My wife's enrolling in Linux Academy next month. I mean, it's happening. She's actually going to learn Linux Basics. I think Angie's going to do it too. Right on. Yeah, it is. Actually, I don't know, just take a moment right here and I'll just mention Linux Academy. That'd be a great spot to mention Linux Academy.

They're a sponsor of the Linux Unplugged program. Go over to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. That'll get you the unplugged discount. That's linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. Go check them out. They have been sponsoring us for a while now, but I feel like every time we come on the show, we have something new to talk about.

And that's pretty exciting. If you think about the rapid amount of innovation and development work that is required to make that happen. Wow. In fact, I have right here, let's see. Check out, I have printed off some of the stuff they've done recently. It's so much stuff that I actually just decided I'm just going to print it so that way I can just go through some of it

with you from time to time and read it. I really, really respect what these guys are doing. So let me tell you a little about Linux Academy. They're different than all the other online educational resources. It's created by people that are truly passionate about Linux, and they really care about open source. They got together with their friends that are educators and developers, and they've created the Linux Academy platform. They've built it from scratch, and it is custom built for us. When you go there, you recognize it is created by people

that truly get this kind of thing. And the reason why I want to emphasize that is because I think that really closes the gap. That makes the big difference. That's the difference from all of the other large websites that cover all of the other areas that don't truly love Linux. They don't cover it right. They don't closely watch the trends and see where things are going.

They don't know that there's many distributions you might want to choose from. Linux Academy does. They have seven plus Linux distributions you get to choose from. That automatically adjusts the courseware. That automatically adjusts the virtual machine that spins up on demand. It comes with the machines as you need them. They have scenario-based labs at Linux Academy. In addition to all the other regular labs they have for servers and things like that, they'll go specific deep dives into scenarios where you receive access to scenario-based training to put you in the middle of a task common to everyday environments. You'll work in advanced lab environments

while completing those scenarios from beginning to end on their live servers. As a member of Linux Academy, you also have abilities to ask their instructors. They have live streams where you can ask the instructors questions. And they've introduced this new feature just recently called Nuggets,

which is to deep dive into a single topic. Not necessarily part of an overall, part of a training course, but like everyday tasks that you just need to know that if you know these little nuggets better and better, you get things done faster and faster. And I've taken some of these and learned, you know, there's a better way to do this than I've always done it. And it's a little bit of humble pie from time to time. But I'm always very, very, very grateful that I've learned a new way to do something or improved a way of doing something that I've done for a long time. Linux Academy also recently announced they're going to

start up an open source grant. They're going to be giving away $5,000 to a qualifying open source project. Now to qualify, you have to be an open source project. Now they're going to have their founders club members vote on which projects get the funding. But it's pretty awesome. It's another way they're going to give back to the open source community. So they had their big content push. A bunch of new content has hit Linux Academy. The Red Hat Certified Services Administrator, chat room, you tell me, RHCSA.

It's going to be released. It was actually just released a couple of days ago. 50 new video nuggets. You know those new nuggets I was telling you about? 50 of them just hit the site. How about that? AWSCSA Pro available for the Founders Club members, and then everybody else gets it on June 15th. DevOps Essentials is available now. That was just added as well. Lots of good stuff as well as new office hours. Tons and tons of things in the community as well. OpenStack, PHP, Amazon Web Services, Android Development, or just how to back up your Linux box, go to linuxacademy.com

slash unplugged and take the training courses. Go do a deep dive. Download the comprehensive study guides. Listen to them offline when you're going like a podcast. Get the in-depth resources. It's training materials for the stuff that you need to use, stuff to make you better at the job that you do, or challenge yourself.

That's what I use it for. linuxacademy.com slash unplugged. It's a great resource. And a big thanks to Linux Academy for sponsoring the Linux Unplugged program. And like Matt said, there's always a great opportunity to go in there for all kinds of folks. I don't get a chance to really give you a picture of all the types of content that are available. But if you go check it out, there really is courseware for everybody that's starting sort of at the absolute beginner level, like maybe Matt's wife would be, all the way up to the really hardcore stuff that's super advanced and putting you on the very edge of things like Docker and really just everything that –

like I was looking at some of the recently added stuff here, Nginx and the LempStack, Introduction to Ruby on Linux, Linux Essential Certification Course for just all the different certifications right there. 20 new AWS CSA additions were just put on here. Git and GitLab from start to finish. Deploy and manage OpenStack on Ubuntu. These are just recent ones. That's just really good stuff. LinuxAcademy.com slash unplugged.

Thanks, Linux Academy. Well, it's like you said, there's something there for everyone, and I love the fact that they're able to take you by the hand at the very, very beginning, and you can know literally nothing about Linux. Well, it's like you said. There's something there for everyone. And I love the fact that they're able to take you by the hand at the very, very beginning. And you can know literally nothing about Linux at all. And they can take you from that point all the way up to where you're ready to be certified and something you're wanting to get into. It's really cool.

And for folks like me who have been in it for a long time but just want to kind of just keep tipping our toes and keeping ourselves up to date, it's really useful. And speaking of keeping our toes in the waters, I've been experimenting with different file systems under Linux for a while. The one I really haven't spent a lot of time with because it just doesn't feel like it's time yet, but maybe this clip is going to change my mind, is ZFS, or as our buddy Alan says, ZFS. And

Alan gave a talk at LinuxFest Northwest about OpenZFS. And he talked about a lot of things, and one of the things that seemed to grab the crowd's attention was this feature called boot volumes. And he goes into some detail about howZFS, and he talked about a lot of things. And one of the things that seemed to grab the crowd's attention was this feature called Boot Volumes, and he goes into some detail about how it works and how maybe we could see it under Linux and how maybe in the future it could be integrated with Docker.

So a lot of things that could be coming to Linux and ZFS. So Alan is our first take from LinuxFest Northwest. Oh, did you go into much detail on boot environments? Because that seems like in a particular area there would be of interest to Linux users. Yeah, they're all like, we want that. Yeah. So one of the things we do with that is,

so with Zed Effect you can take snapshots. That's pretty normal. But you can also clone them, which basically makes them a new file system that's writable. Yeah, not for our default file system. We don't have snapshots. No, no. No, yeah.

So people are familiar with what snapshots are. You mean better file systems that have snapshots? Yeah. But people are familiar that there's such a thing. Even if it's actually coming from... Even if our file system doesn't have it. Right. Or specifically, you're using virtualization and it can kind of pretend to have that. Right. Sometimes I get to play Extended 4

as snapshots with VirtualBox, and I'm like, oh, this is what a file system feels like. A little bit. Just a little bit. And so you basically, with, like, VirtualBox. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, this is what a file system feels like. Yeah. A little bit. Just a little bit. And so you basically, with a clone, it allows you to, like, fork a file system, kind of like you fork open source, right? Yeah. So you have the common blocks only take up space once,

even though you're using them twice. And then the differences are the fork. Yeah. And then you have the differences take up the space. And so with that, what you can do is if you have forks of what your system looked like from different times, we push that into the Grub menu.

And when you start up the system. What publishes it to the Grub menu? Just a utility that Chris Moore wrote. Oh, okay. So it just loops over the ZFS data sets. And reads that. And then it figures out what menu entries to make based on. And then when you boot up the system, you can be like,

well, I can have the system that, like, the latest version, and I run it, and it's okay. Or I just installed an update and it broke everything. I can just use the one from before. And you set it up so it automatically makes one for you when you start a package upgrade. Because I always forget until I'm halfway through the package upgrade.

Yeah, that's a good idea. And then, oh, look, you know, this latest package upgrade left me in dependency hell. Some app I depend on doesn't work now. Well, hey, I can just reboot and give me what my machine looked like 10 minutes ago. Nice. And the best part about it is with ZFS, you create basically an infinite number of partitions. You can create many, many partitions.

But they all share one pool of free space, right? Because usually the only reason we don't create a separate partition for, like, every directory on our systems is that you have to set how much space each partition gets. Yeah, and you lock yourself in. Yeah, your free space gets broken up all over the place, and it's useless. Yeah. Well, with all the free space coming from one big pool, now you can create as many as you want.

And so when you're setting up these snapshots and stuff, when you're rolling back, you can say, roll back only the system, but leave my home directory alone. So all the documents I updated are separate. Can I once again repeat that Extended 4 is not good enough? Can I just say that again? Can I once again

repeat that every time you've tried another file system, it totally blows your system away, and I've run Extended 4 for the last, like, seven years and never had a problem. Shut up, Noah. I don't have snapshots. My system doesn't crash, so we'll go with that. Right, but honestly, on my development laptop, I actually have boot environments I created on purpose

where I actually have three different versions of the operating system that I can boot from. Yeah, that's cool, too. But sharing more of the data rather than if I did it like a multi-boot type setup. Right, yeah. Like they're all sharing the same installed apps and stuff because they're sharing their

package database because it's compatible. The one thing that makes this a little easier on BSD is the separation between the operating system and your applications. FreeBSD forces all applications you install from the package repo to be rooted in user local whatever.

Even your config files. The config file for your application is user local Etsy. Yeah. So when you upgrade the operating system and it changes some default stuff, it changes it in ETC. Right. So your snapshot can have that separate. Yeah.

Because slash ETC is just the OS setting. Exactly. And so when you're upgrading and if you roll that back, you didn't lose the change you made in your server application or whatever. Yeah. And Linux sometimes, like apps that run with the user level privileges, they'll write their config to the home directory. So you can accomplish that a bit. Yeah.

But like, yeah, overall package settings and like, you know, for your applications you install from like the AUR and things like that, they get mixed in with the slash Etsy. Yeah. from the AUR and things like that, they get mixed in with the Slash NC. Yeah, so having that separation makes things a little bit easier to kind of, with fine-gain control, decide exactly what you're going to roll back and what you're not. And that's the other big advantage with that over other types of snapshots and rollbacks is that you can roll back part of the system but not all of it so that you don't lose the stuff you were doing.

it so that you don't lose the stuff you were doing while... With that, what PCBSD has taken to doing is actually basically forking the file system, setting it up in a jail, and installing all the updates and stuff in the background while you're working on your live system. Then when you reboot, you just

reboot in a newer version of the system. Gosh, that's cool. Are you hearing this? All your other stuff is happening. You can be doing your package upgrade in the background while still running applications without having a problem. Because that was a problem I used to have. It's like while I was installing the update, it's downloading a button that's going to do stuff.

Well, I want to be using the browser, but how do you use the browser while the dependencies are being upgraded? And it's like, oh, the browser can't launch because the dependency is a newer version now. And so, yeah, having that happen in a separate one and then just switching out underneath, it's kind of like puppy Linux in having the overlay kind of thing. Yeah, overlay. So the way I look at it, and really, I mean, people, as much as it's fun to joke about it,

really people should be thanking you for trying things like ButterFS and then letting it crash on you twice because then we all know what the state of it is. I mean, really, you're doing everyone a favor by actually... I'm being serious. But add to that, building upon that, we look at this idea that if...

I would rather see Linux get to a point where Linux does everything well and we can... All that stuff sounds really great and fancy and cool, but I'm thankful for a reliable, usable file system like EXC4 that I have that I can fall back on, that I don't lose any data on. And if and when

Linux can adopt those things, I think it'll be really cool. There is ZFS on Linux. It's a project from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories. And while they're a little bit behind BSD and Illumos, mostly because they started much later and they have a lot of catching up to do,

but their latest release, I think, is 0.6.4. It has the biggest improvements, like the compression stuff, and it's quite stable. And people are using it, and they're quite happy with it. I'm waiting for a checkbox in the installer that I can just check and says, use ZFS. When's that coming? Ironically, Debian might be the first.

That'd be really cool. We'll see. I forget the name of the project, but there's one that's looking at Docker and ZFS put together and being able to do interesting things with that. There is some interesting things you could do there. Now, a lot of you, probably out in the audience,

might have already tried ZFS into Linux, or some of you might be doing it. Now, Wimpy, didn't you say on the pre-show that you recently set up a NAS with ZFS? Just this afternoon. Oh, wow. That is recent. And I assume Linux-based, right? It is. It's Open Media Vault 1.0, which is Debian Weezy-based.

Oh, yes. Great. And that has a plug-in that adds ZFS support as a storage back storage backend with the management utilities to support it as well. So the OS is what, extended for, and then the data volumes are ZFS? That's right. So I've got an X4 OS drive and then four drives in ZFS pool. And how's the management UI for it? drives in um zfs pool and how's the management ui for it uh i'm something of a newbie with zfs so i don't know how comprehensive it is but i was able to set up what i wanted to do so um from a new to zfs point of view uh it does what i need um and i don't know if it's going to be stable or

not or if it'll work or if it'll fall in a heap, but it's an experiment to try it out. Do you recall, is it a pretty current version of ZFS that they're using? It's compatible with the feature flags that are in FreeNAS 9.2. So I don't know what changed in ZFS between FreeNAS 9.2. So I don't know what changed in ZFS between FreeNAS 9.2 and 9.3. Right. But if you had FreeNAS... Yeah.

Yeah, you can find it with the features. The way the feature flag system works is that would be true across any system that has ZFS with those feature flags. It wouldn't just be in FreeNAS. Yeah, so I know that you can import a Zpool that's from FreeNAS 9.2 into this OpenMediaVault system, but I don't think you can import a Zpool from FreeNAS 9.3

because the required feature flags aren't in OpenZFS in this Linux implementation yet. Any initial impressions on performance? Well, I haven't done it for the performance, so this is going to be my Plex server. I've really done it to help prevent bit rot and gray-holing. So your requirements are stream the HD file fast enough? Yes, just fast enough to get downstairs to the TV.

That makes sense. I'm still curious, though. For some reason, I like to know, I don't know, I just kind of want to get a sense of what the performance would be like under Linux. I will compare that. I've got two systems that are identical. So they're running the same OS, they've got the same hardware, same drives. Run's running on LVM with XFS over the top,

and this one's now got ZFS. And I will do some sort of finger-in-the-air kind of benchmarks, but performance isn't my main requirement. It's really about data quality is really what it's about. And that totally does make sense. I mean, that's why we use it on our NAS.

Here, Kitson, I don't think, Kitson, it is fair to say that ZFS has no more legal concerns necessarily. Where do you get that? Well, the Debian team seemed to have analyzed it, and if it is good enough for Debian, shouldn't it be good enough for open susie or fedora i'm wondering how how how did they come to this conclusion so it appears to me that they got a consultation from either the free software conservancy or the i'm not actually i don't remember actually who they got their cons i remember talking about the story now but i'm trying to remember who they got the details on but if i recall it essentially sounds like

story now, but I'm trying to remember who they got the details on. But if I recall, it essentially sounds like Debian as a project might be able to license it or something, is kind of what I was gathering. Not so much that the legal status has changed. Yeah, here it is. I'm pulling up the article on Pharonix right now as we talk about it. Here it is. He says, Neil McGovern, he's elected as a Debian project leader. And as the former project leader was stepping out, he posted his final remarks. And the former project leader was Lucas. His final management, he said, we received legal advice from the Software Freedom Law Center. There it is, the Software Freedom Law Center, about the inclusion of libdvd.css.

So that's the DVD decryption stuff because, oh, we're all clamping at the bit for that still. And then, of course, ZFS and Debian, which should unblock the situation in both cases clamping at the bit for that still and uh or champ what is that what is that chomping at the bit or and then of course zfs and debian which should unblock the situation of both cases and enables to ship them in debian soon we've received legal advice about the inclusion they say that's pretty ambiguous i don't know what the hell that means well i think at some basic level it indicates that rather than just looking at it strictly from an engineering point of view or a software point of view, they actually got a hold of someone that has studied law at some inherent level and has actually looked at it from what is the likelihood of a successful lawsuit on this. That's exactly what it sounds like to me. And it sounds like it's a copyright aggregation agreement with the Software Freedom Conservancy.

That's where I got Software Freedom Conservancy from. The Debian Project and the Software Freedom Conservancy now have an agreement that enables Debian contributors to assign copyright of their works to the conservancy. A couple of the DDs already expressed interest in some time ago, and if you're interested too, please get in contact, blah, blah, blah. So that's one thing that came in. I have no idea if that has any relation now to the ZFS. But it sounds like to me, Matt, and I think it sounds like to you, Debian seeked out some legal advice specifically for the project themselves and got the legal advice that they could include ZFS. Not that ZFS was legal for Linux to use license-wise across the board. Right. I think that's exactly it. Yeah.

Derek, did you have something you wanted to add about the license? Yeah, just looking at the perspective that the GPL still complies with the BSD license, there's no technical reason to, like legally speaking, that is in violation of the BSD license in that case. So the common scenario in warring is mostly

related to shipping by default with it and also how to make GPL not contaminate the BSE code. So to do that, you kind that institution to make that grant. Right. The ability to ship with that code without GPL contaminating that code, if that makes sense. That does make sense. Well, it makes as much sense as I think it's going to make sense to me, which is good enough. So, and then I know a lot of you out there that are listening right now are smashing your heads against the keyboard saying guys guys guys oh yeah right zfs is not bst license yes i

know uh i know a lot of you out there smashing your head against the keyboard saying guys i've been using zfs on linux for years uh jed for example uh which we'll have an interview in one of our shows soon has using in large-scale production um well i'll talk more about jed in a little bit right zfs ZFS was created by Sun. It's the CDDL or whatever the hell that is. I know you're using it, so I'd like to hear it. But if you could do a post for me so that way we could get a discussion going on the Linux Action Show subreddit, that would be extremely valuable. If you've got a really awesome setup, I wouldn't mind, I mean, I know this is asking for a lot, but like a diagram or something like that. You could post it over there just so we could take a look at it.

It's linuxactionshow.reddit.com. I'd like to talk more about it just because it's something that we're going to have to tackle here in production. I think it's something we're going to have to face at JP. So basically it's a necessity. It's about to come about. You're going to have to basically do it. But I feel like I have just a little bit of time before I have to tackle it. So I'd like to really – I'd just like to get what people have to say about it.

This would allow you to benefit from other people's experiences, their successes and their failures. We've got a lot more coming up, including the Intel middleboard guy, which is a fascinating conversation. But first I want to tell you about our second sponsor, and that's Ting. Go over to linux.ting.com.

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Click that savings calculator. Thank you very much, Ting, for sponsoring Linux Unplugged. Woo-hoo! All right, guys. So I want to get into this Intel Minnow interview. It's very interesting because I think we get very excited because the Raspberry Pi is very affordable. We get very excited because there's a lot going on in that space

with ARM processors. There's a lot of different boards to choose from. It's not just the Raspberry Pi. I'm going to admit, though, the comfort of x86 is appealing to me in this space. If I could get that same form factor and that same power savings but run my x86 stuff,

that appeals to me. So when John sat down from Intel to talk about the Amino board, I was excited to see what they have, and what he thought the reason was that not a lot of people are talking about them compared to all of the other ARM-based projects out there. So we have John here.

And John, you said you were at the Minnow Board project? Yeah, I'm with the Minnow Board project. So the Minnow Board's an open hardware platform that's being jointly done between Intel and some industry partners to kind of put an Intel face in the embedded world. We've got, I mean, if you look at the embedded world and everything, it's dominated by ARM. ARM, yeah.

Yeah, and, you know, from the Intel perspective, we don't exactly make it easy to work with us. I mean, if you're going to buy, like, a million chips from us, we help you out all over the place. But we don't really have, or we haven't had a lot of really good open hardware platforms that people can just kind of pick up with and tinker. And thus was born the Minnow Board project.

So one of the things that I really liked was I was at LinuxCon two years ago, and you guys had a Minnow Board demo, and they gave everyone a Minnow Board and let us actually set the whole thing, like unbox it, play with it, and we got to make LEDs flash. And here's the thing. Is it sad that this is the difference between and I'm going to go there. I'm going to say the difference between traditional Mac users and traditional Linux users, and that is

that most people that appeal to that Apple ecosystem want just something handed to them and to work, and I got this middle board, and I was blown away. I'm like, I could hook this up to my freaking garage door, SSH into my garage door when I get home. Like that makes no sense to most Mac users because they would say, well, that's silly.

Why would you just not want to push the button and then the garage door will open? I'm like, but it's much cooler to do it over SSH. And that's something that you guys, you know, you guys really nailed. And that was hands down my favorite exhibit that year. Nice. Yeah. Actually, we're giving away, we gave some of these away at ELC, but we're giving them away here. We've got these little proto boards called the Tadpole.

And they've just got a little RGB LED on them, you know, on the middle board if you hook it up. You know, you can twiddle an RGB LED from GPIO. That's really cool. Yeah. And so we're giving those away here. And we're trying to make the embedded world a little more approachable. I mean, we can run stock Linux distributions on the Minnow board. Yeah.

So, I mean... What's the price range on the Minnow board? How competitive are they there? So, we're a little bit more expensive. We're $149 for a dual core with two gigs of RAM. Dual core x86? 64-bit x86. And you're also getting Intel HD graphics, gigabit Ethernet, USB 3, PCI Express.

Oh, gigabit Ethernet, really? Yeah, I mean, we've got a lot of the same kind of low-speed I.O. that similar boards in the market have. Yeah. But what we're really bringing to the table on top of just the x86 story is we've got all the high-speed I.O. that you would expect from our kind of a chip. I could actually use that in a production environment with that kind of like... I mean, gigabit Ethernet for me has always sort of been the biggest pain point on a lot of these boards because we're doing such large data sets and things like that that the 100 megabit limitation is a killer for us.

Oh, yeah. And the fact that being x86-based means I can take advantage of all of the tools we're already using in-house that are built for x86. Oh, yeah. No, I mean mean i'm fundamentally running the exact same operating system on my laptop as i am on an embedded platform now i i mean admittedly that's not the way most people think of it as an embedded platform but as cpus are getting bigger and more powerful in the embedded space these really are becoming the

pcs that were were around you know yeah even years ago. Yeah, it's kind of remarkable. And I think of computers for our kids now and things like that, and giving them something they can tinker with, something that's a little lower cost but also still very capable, so that way they have a good experience. And systems like this are perfect. They really fit into that. And as computers are becoming more sealed up and more consumer-grade,

it's so nice to see this area sort of opening up again for people that might want to start learning and tinkering again. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, you nailed it when you said that PCs and everything are getting more sealed up. You don't have access to even a simple GPIO on your laptop. I mean, there's no room for it. I mean, the best you're getting is USB, Right. Which, don't get me wrong, USB is fantastic, but just making an LED blink from an operating system or even from just a controller. That's so cool.

Yeah. It feels like the operating system is sitting right on top of the hardware. It's just right there. Now, you said you're giving some of these minnow boards away? We're not giving the minnow boards away here. We're giving the Tadpole. Tadpole. Which is just, like I said, it's just like an RGB LED and a very small proto space.

Actually, if you go out to minnowboard.org, there's a link on the front talking about the Tadpole. It'll take you to our wiki. And it's got the build instructions right there, and you can see the finished item. So what do you think about this trend? I'm seeing, like, everybody, a lot of ARM compute sticks. They're like, you know, the entire computer on an HDMI stick.

I think I saw something from Intel in this regard, but this seems to be an area that's really just taking off. What do you think about these in comparison to the more traditional boards and stuff like that? So the compute stick kind of things, I mean, you're probably talking about the, I'm going to forget its name, but Intel just is releasing one, and there's been some press about it in the last couple of days. Right.

And the really great, at least the article that I was reading last night, they really hit the nail on the head with that one, which was it's great for just giving you an intermediate step to just plug into your TV. It's a little bit more powerful than what you'd expect out of a Chromecast or something else that you would plug in. But it's not quite a full PC. So it sits in a nice middle ground. Isn't it just another sealed up sort of consumer

device that maybe has its purpose, but it's not it's sort of limited in its full scope. Yep. So if people want to learn more about this kind of stuff, what would be some good resources they could go check out if they're watching at home or something like that? So for the Minnow Board, go to minnowboard.org. There's a link right at the top for our wiki,

and that's got all of our tech specs. For the small board computers in general, I mean, they're all over the place. Just do a quick Google search. If I could remember the name of the little Intel stick. I know. I just talked about it like a week or so ago on the news. And it's a pretty neat little device.

And the one that ships with Linux looks pretty good. Yeah. I could see it working even as a receptionist computer hooked up to a monitor or somebody that just needs a basic web browser hooked up to just an LCD screen and a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse in their home. Yep. And that's kind of exciting. Yeah.

But I find more of the board stuff more fascinating from my tinkering kind of nature. Yeah, no, I mean, you're definitely not going to tinker with some of these things that are just plugging in to HDMI ports. I might watch a YouTube video on it, but that's probably about it. Well, thanks for stopping by. Yeah, no. It was great to chat with you. And so are you a free agent roaming, or do you guys have a booth here?

No, we've got a booth here, and I've got a talk this afternoon where I'm going to network boot a computer over the internet. Awesome, really. So I'm... Over the internet. You're hoping that connection is going to work, huh? Well, I was going to say, I'm taunting the demo gods on that one. Let me just, let me assure you, this is the week to try something crazy at the last possible moment, and it will succeed. So far, yeah. I was going to say. We've been lucky.

Yeah, it's been... Down to the wire. We'll see. Network booting a computer off of a server in California will be... I've done it to England before, and that one did not go well. Oh, really? It's always trickier when you're at a conference, too. Yeah, conference internet is always special. And, of course, with my laptop, I had to bring my USB Ethernet adapter.

Got to be wired. That seems to solve a lot of it. Nope, I'll be a VM, on stage, over Wi-Fi. Oh, boy, well, good luck. And then tomorrow we've got to talk on the middle board as an open hardware platform. Cool. I'm really glad to hear that you guys are pushing that area. So it's really cool to hear you out here talking about it and getting the word out. Because I think it was a little late to the game. I don't know if late to the game is the right word.

But at least in terms of knowledge share, it seems. And so I think it's pretty compelling, especially for Linux users. Because it's just slam it right on there and you're good to go. And you have a full-fledged Linux box. Yep. Well, thank you, sir. Yep. No, thank you. Very good chatting with you. Yep. Good have a full-fledged Linux box. Yep. Well, thank you, sir. Yep. No, thank you. Very good chatting with you.

Yep. Good luck with the talk and enjoy the rest of the fest. No, thank you. I wonder if anybody in the Mumba Room has any experience with any of these Intel Muna boards. I know Noah picked one up. Is anybody in the Mumba Room experienced with any of these, like, x86 small boards from Intel that look like they might be interesting? The only place I've seen them is in conferences.

Maybe I should get one and see what they can do. Might be kind of fun. Yeah. Could be kind of a fun toy to play with. It could be. Who knows? Who knows what we could discover? All right.

Well, we've got an interview with a guy who was sort of core at getting that variant of Wine that made it possible to get Netflix to play under Linux. You remember before we got the HTML5 playback under Linux, there was that stopgap where you could do like this funky way to get a silver light environment and do all this stuff and get like the next – the Netflix desktop PPA. And remember all this, Matt? Pipelight or pipe – There were several iterations of it. And it turns out that behind the scenes, it was pretty heated what was going on. And it turns out also that Silverlight is a huge

piece of garbage. And that one of the reasons that we got HTML5 native streaming of Netflix is because the project that was getting this to work was discovering fundamental flaws in Silverlight that they believe Microsoft never wanted to see the day of light. So I'll play that interview now. So tell me where Netflix was a couple years ago and how you felt about it. Well, so a couple years ago, we didn't have Netflix at all on Linux except through VMs. Yeah, that's very true. One of the big problems with that,. Yeah, that's very true.

One of the big problems with that, of course, is the performance issues. And for me, actually, at the time, I was doing a little bit of playing around with it. But the thing that really drove me to trying to get Netflix working on Linux was that I was really pissed off at the administration at my university. I was trying to get my PhD at the time. And I just needed a break so that I wouldn't want to murder them. So I just kind of sat down for a week and

started trying to diagnose how Silverlight worked. And was just kind of poking around at the things that it did on the system. And discovering all sorts of really crazy stuff that they did that I probably shouldn't talk about because... Oh, really?

Yeah. For Silverlight specifically? Yeah, for Silverlight specifically. It would tell you how to get the raw video data. Right, that doesn't surprise me. And wouldn't that be a heyday? Yeah, so for obvious reasons, I was not trying to get the raw video data from the Netflix feeds.

I was trying to get it to work properly on Linux so that I could give the community something and not have Microsoft breathing down everyone's throats. And want somebody's head. Right, exactly. So the thing that was really challenging with that is that they've put a lot of stuff into it to try and detect anything that you could possibly be doing. I bet. To see what it's up to.

And so there's all sorts of things that it's doing in the background that actually have nothing to do with the video feed. Really? Like it's just trying to figure out? Like whether or not you're trying to interfere with it. So there's some things that are actually... What's an example of something I might check for? Well, so like one of the things that it does is that it has in the background the debug helper running and part of that is for reporting problems that happen with the software okay but part of it is that if that process dies which happens when you try to attach a debugger then the rest of it

shuts down and so even if you didn't start it running a debugger if you attach one later then it knows and says, oh, you know, it's time for me to say goodbye to you. Something's going on here. I'm not even going to risk it. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, who knows how Microsoft actually debugs their own software in that case,

but I'm sure that they have some sort of thing set up. Maybe they don't. That would explain a few things. It would explain a few things, especially some of the weird video acceleration stuff that Silverlight does. It uses some a few things, especially some of the weird video acceleration stuff that Silverlight does. It uses some really old APIs. And one of the things that's just crazy to me is that the key that they use for all the drivers is a 1024-bit key.

So not the driver key. The driver key is better. But the master key they use to sign all of the drivers is like a really ridiculously small so what would be the point of that like well they made the key in like the 2000s yeah and they never updated it and it's actually the same key that they're using for opm now so the the cop the old system uses the same key now for opm because it needs to be backwards compatible right and so like oh it wouldn't really take all of that much time on a supercomputer to figure out the master key. There's a whole bunch of them to be honest,

but like it's, it's kind of ridiculous. Like some of the, so, uh, you may be aware that we actually kind of created a project for staging wine changes as a result of some of that work. I wasn't sure if it was as a result, but I noticed it kind of happened.

Yeah, so that was... Before he goes on into the wine stuff, I thought it was his comment there. He's basically saying, look, there is this crazy soft spot right here in Silverlight that you could take advantage of. If you knew where to poke, if you rented, oh, I don't know, some GPUs on a server somewhere on Amazon, you might be able to start working on this. You might be able to crack it. I think that guy knows some major secrets.

And it turns out EB in the chat room was playing Call of Duty with him that night. Didn't even know. And that guy's wife kicked EB's butt in Call of Duty. So he's a hell of a Call of Duty player apparently as well. I want to get into, he gets into how they've made, how they sort of changed the wine project and how eventually it sort of cascaded into Netflix getting a native HTML5 playback and the changes that needed to make to the HTML5 spec. Before we do that though, I'll mention DigitalOcean, our last sponsor of this week's show. DigitalOcean Thank you. all happening now under Linux, all being synced through own cloud droplets that are powered up on DigitalOcean.

It's so slick to have the complete workflow from beginning to end for this entire LinuxFest all done under Linux. These interviews that I'm playing back right now that you're watching, these are edited. Well, I should back up. So first, they're recorded on a Linux rig. Then they're synced up to a DigitalOcean droplet for off-light storage. We had a 100 megabit upload at LinuxFest Northwest. They rocked us with a great connection. And so we were able to send footage up to our droplet in near real time, store it off-site, which is brilliant because we're shipping that rig back to Grand Forks, North Dakota so NOAA can continue to work on it.

So we wanted to get all of the footage off it and safe immediately. We took advantage of that 100 megabit connection, and of course our DigitalOcean droplet's rocking fast. So we sent all the footage up to the DigitalOcean droplet almost as it was done. We just delayed it a little bit because we weren't in any rush and we didn't need to consume a ton of bandwidth. It goes up there. It then syncs back down to my primary workstation here at the studio that runs Arch.

I've got Lightworks and AvidMux ready to go on that thing. I bring all of that footage in. I had to remux all of the footage into a new container, which don't worry what that means, but I was able to do that very quickly because it was already sitting on my file system when I sat down. I saved the final encoded versions to another folder in own cloud, which then sunk to my bonobo, and I'm playing them back here. I never once had to sneaker net any files. I never lost any data. It was always backed up to my DigitalOcean droplet, and the entire workflow all happened using open-source free software. And DigitalOcean was the back-end engine that makes it all possible.

And when you go over to DigitalOcean and you use our promo code D01PLUGED, you'll get a $10 credit. Go see what you can do for free for two months with a $5 rig. I'm doing this with a $5 rig. Seriously, it's amazing what you can do up at DigitalOcean. They're a simple cloud hosting provider dedicated to offering the most intuitive and easy way for you to spin up your own cloud server.

You can get started in less than 55 seconds. And the pricing is nuts. It starts at only $5 a month. It'll get you 512 megabytes of RAM, a 20 gigabyte SSD, one CPU, and a terabyte of transfer. And that's a great thing because that means I'm never worrying about this. All of these data, all these huge files we're moving around, we're not going to break a terabyte with this stuff because we're recording them in a

very high resolution, very high bitrate x264 file. They're large, but they're not that large. And I never have to worry about it with that terabyte of transfer. It's so nice to have that peace of mind. And for $5 a month, it's totally nuts. And if you use the promo code DL1plugged, then you get the $10 credit. Oh my gosh, two months and you get it for free. I mean, it's a great deal. It's super powerful. It could probably really fundamentally change the way you work. It's changed and improved the way I work. I feel like DigitalOcean is my data center infrastructure on demand. They have data centers in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam, infrastructure on demand. They have data centers in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam,

Germany, and London. And their interface is so impressive. And I love that aspect of it because it doesn't mean we waste a lot of time tinkering with stuff. We get in, we set it up, we're done. And it's very intuitive. So I know anyone on the team can manage it, no problem. And the best part is they have an API that lets me take it even further if we ever want to automate some of this stuff. And I hear from people in the audience that do it all the time. And there's tons of great apps created by the community to take advantage of that API. That control panel is really the icing on top of the entire stack. It all starts with Linux and KVM virtualization, which is a great virtualizer. I think KVM is the best. They use SSDs, so that way you get super high IO. That's awesome because then they have it connected to tier one bandwidth at the best. They use SSD so that way you get super high IO. That's awesome because then they have it connected to tier

one bandwidth at the best data centers in the world. And the entire package is managed with this. Then they have some of the best tutorials on the internet. Between Arch and DigitalOcean, some of the best documentation on the internet is being created.

It's really good stuff. Go over to DigitalOcean.com use the promo code D01O-Unplugged. That keeps Linux Unplugged on the air because it tells DigitalOcean, hey, I heard about it on Linux Unplugged. So you get the $10 credit, which means you don't have to have a credit card to try out DigitalOcean, and you support this show. You keep us going. When you use the promo code D-O-Unplugged, go try them out. If from anything from developing an application to your back-end infrastructure, DigitalOcean can handle it. Trust me, I've done it. DigitalOcean.com. You guys, no matter what load I put it under, have never disappointed me. DigitalOcean, DO unplugged. All right, so let's go back to our interview, and I want to hear a little

bit more about how these changes impacted the wine project. Kind of a result of that stuff and that some of those changes weren't something that aj wanted to bring into main wine and so what we said is okay well what if we set up this thing where we can kind of make these things better so that then eventually they can be included and part of that exploration we started going around and trying to ask the driver manufacturers okay is there something that you can do for us that then we can support some of these more advanced features in Silverlight and integrate that into the driver? Right. And the answers to that were very interesting, mostly in the form of, like, no comment things.

But we got somebody off of the record to tell us, oh, well, there's actually an agreement you sign when you create these drivers that Microsoft signs off on that you will not make it work on other operating systems. What? Yeah. So apparently, so like the reason that you can't have the HD video through even what we've done. And that's all shrouded in NDAs, I'm sure. Right, yeah. Is that we can't make the cop work on Linux because we can't access the part of the driver we would need to access to do that legally and so we would have to give you a substitute of what the driver has to do

which involves you having a driver key which you can actually get a hold of if you try but then it becomes you know kind of like the issue with dvds and that kind of thing like then you're distributing one of these numbers that's supposedly a special number yeah that's that has special legal privileges yeah and so there's like all of this stuff around that and you know a lot of the people that are on our forums like oh well we just want to be able to watch our hd videos and it's like i'm sorry we have the stuff we just can't give it to you like if we did then microsoft would kill us yeah yeah that's a really interesting thing to sort of pull the rug or pull the carpet or the carpet

what is it the curtain pull the curtain back and realize there's there's a lot going on here that you never even realize as somebody that just sits back and watches the netflix thing to think you always think it's these technical hurdles or things like that and it's like no here's the exact spot and if we could just get access to that, but there's this legal barrier that prevents it. That seems like that's only going to stick for so long until eventually somebody somewhere decides they're not scared by that. Well, so one of the things with that, and actually one of the reasons

we haven't put a lot of effort into that recently, is that the inclusion of the HTML5 stuff into Chrome that allows you to watch it in Chrome. Yeah, the DRM stuff, extensions or whatever. One of the things that we kind of heard through the Grapevine is that the reason that that exists is that we got things working through Silverlight, and they know that there's problems with Silverlight. And so... They wanted to take the pressure off.

They wanted to take the pressure off that somebody might go in and spell that out. And it's like all things, right? Like, it solves a few other problems for them as well. Right, yeah. So it's like, that... You can't deny the timing of it all. Oh, yeah. It does seem like it lines up.

Yeah, so that was one of the things we're poking around some of our driver friends and being like, does this have something to do with us? And they're like, yes, this has something to do with you. Like, whoa, somebody noticed. They're paying attention. Did you have that moment where you're like, oh, they are watching? Well, I mean, we've always tried to be very careful with the information that we give out. Because we want it to be something that, like, they don't shut down.

Yeah. So you're always, from the onset, kind of aware that they're probably going to find out. Right, yeah. Because, I mean, it's a big deal for them and for the movie industry if that system were to break. Yes. And so it was something that we were always very cognizant of. It kind of seems like they got lucky then, in a way, because I think they got lucky that somebody was even cognizant of it

because other people would have just been focused more on the free the movies. Yeah. And they would have gotten in trouble, and it wouldn't have worked long term, and it probably wouldn't have sort of encouraged the kind of larger scale change that brought the you know more native playback using html5 extensions i mean if that if the group had gone about if your group had gone about if you'd gone about the wrong way it could have blown it well yeah and and that that was really a big concern initially was that even though we had done all the right things it's still a question of yeah like even doing all the right things yeah you can still get in big trouble right and and so you know one of the things you know now

that i have a phd it's actually a little bit harder because you know it's like i'm a researcher like i i can disclose all sorts of stuff and that's amazing yeah and so but you know when you do that what you want is for the community to have that that capability and not for them to take it away because at any time they could just change the system and take it away. And that's not what you want them to do. Right. Yeah, because then it kind of means you only bought yourself time, really. Right, yeah.

And then they catch up. Yeah. What's the point? But, I mean, now that kind of Silverlight is headed out the door, and it's pretty much only used in Europe now for that kind of stuff. Apparently, the Amazon service still uses it in Europe, even though they have HTML5 here in the U.S. I know some sports events still use it,

but even Microsoft themselves seem to be pulling back from Silverlight. I was actually on a plane the other day, and they used Silverlight for the video streaming. I was like, you know, I wonder if I can get it to run on my laptop, and it's like, oh, sure enough. Really? Yeah. I think it was on southwest really how did you get it well i mean i just downloaded the oh the whole silverlight file and yeah oh so it's their web interface yeah so

and so i was able to watch you know the movies on the plane because yeah the silverlight was working properly at least as far as you I can tell. That's so funny. Yeah, I think Microsoft made a bold bet, and I think they wanted to make Silverlight an entire runtime environment. Oh, yeah, they definitely did. And it's really clear in the way that it's architected that it was going to be their.NET for the Internet.

Right, and the world did not want another plug-in based thing. No. We moved past it. Well, and all the security issues involved with it, I think people were kind of done with it. And Microsoft wasn't, you know, they weren't in the same position they are now and it was like, oh, it's a Flash competitor, it's Microsoft's version, they're trying to come in and they just, people were not receptive

to it. So it was a big, like, that whole thing, that seems like, you know, over the history of our show, watching all that Netflix stuff unravel, just getting to the point where, yes, it is now possible to get Netflix working. Yeah, it was a huge step forward. You know, it's like, that and Steam are the, like, almost in the entire history of Linux are like the two

biggest things. On the desktop, yeah. Yeah, right. That have two of that just hit, and it's like, wow, I can't believe I'm doing this on Linux. Yeah, it still blows me away when I start Netflix or start Steam. I still have moments where I'm like, wow, I can't believe I'm doing this on Linux. Yeah, it still blows me away when I start Netflix or start Steam. I still have moments where I'm like, wow. And then, of course, there is, of course, April 24th, which was the first day that, you know. We live streamed from Linux using the OBS software and a last-minute built Linux rig. Yes.

That has not crashed once, I might add. That is very impressive. Believe me, when I tell you that this was a last-minute job, that, like, people talk about the 11th hour. No, we are at the 11th hour in the 59th minute. Like, I mean, it is, we woke up, we woke up, I came to the studio, he hadn't even seen the box, which, to some degree, actually implies a certain amount of

trust on your on your end because he came in he went to bed the night before just assuming that that he was like well i trust you guys i'm sure you'll give me a solution in the morning and to to my credit we and and al's credit we had it done and so he walked in and like i was about ready to pack it up and he's like well um could i see it it work? And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we could do that, I suppose. So we did that. I showed him for like 30 seconds, and then from that, we packed up. And that is essentially what made the decision. So it was not.

It's something we've wanted to do for a long time. Yeah, right, yeah. I mean, you're constantly doing that, right? You're constantly looking. You're saying, this is what I need to do. What projects are out there? We've said it's closed for a long time. Yeah, but you knew.

It's still not fully there. Exactly. Yeah, really, it's kind of a hacked together solution. And the other thing, too, that I think sometimes gets lost is people think, oh, Chris isn't aware of OBS. No, Chris is fully aware of OBS. Chris has installed OBS and tried OBS and realized that it wasn't quite there yet. And I looked. The publish date for OBS was two days ago.

So if we had tried it one day earlier, it probably wouldn't have worked. Wow. Yeah. Well, one of the things that I've seen with a lot of people is that usually for an individual, there's one thing. Yeah. There's really just one thing. Tell me about it.

Yeah. And it's different for everybody. Everybody's got their one thing. A lot of people use Netflix, though. And sometimes it's got their one thing. A lot of people use Netflix, though. And sometimes it's this crazy, it's this crazy side thing. It's some program you haven't even heard of,

but they cannot live without it. Right. And then that makes it all the more difficult because, for instance, there was a girl that we were switching to Linux. She was a college student.

And she used the, what was the Microsoft Zune? The Microsoft Zune. And they had a media manager specifically for the Zune, which I had never used. To date, I have never met another person that has ever used it. So I don't think it's

real popular. I think that iTunes by far and above has the advantage. Yet, she liked the way the Zune thing worked. And then Microsoft, in traditional Microsoft fashion, had all of their stupid WMAs that were all protected that wouldn't convert and play on Linux. And it just made my job all the harder.

Yeah, that's actually one of the things that I think that the Wine Project is really important. And I know a lot of community members feel differently about that. But, man, for people that just their one thing is some piece of commercial software that's only available for Windows, that is the only way that we're ever going to get those people to switch. Huge. Yeah, I agree. And it's so great for legacy applications

that would never, ever be ported. There's applications that we use in media production. It's like, we just need this one program and we can do the whole thing under Linux. And thankfully, thanks to Wine, we're able to do it. Some of it are extremely complicated. Some of them are 3D capture of the desktop,

compress it to an H.264 signal, transmit it over the network to a receiver, and we're doing that under Wine. You know, here's where I come down on Wine. I come down on it like this. I am glad Wine exists. I like the fact that Wine exists. I am even more happy that certain things run better under Wine than under Windows itself. But I am saddened that we have to have it.

I am saddened that people will only write applications for Windows, and thus we need a translation layer to get that to Linux. But I agree. And the other thing is, when you're moving people to Linux, if you try to just rip the rug out and put a new rug down, you're going to fail. You have to baby-step people into it, and part of that process is, and this is why I kind of separate from a lot of the free and open-source guys, is let's get everyone on Linux first, then we can worry about open-source, and then we can worry about true Libre software.

But when we try to go from this extreme from proprietary, just everything works and it's being controlled from a company all the way to a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche, the experience is so poor and so drastic, and in a short amount of time, I think it causes problems. Yeah, I definitely agree. I mean, I've seen before a lot of times where people are like, oh, well, you know, I want my Visual Studio tools.

And it's like, well, I mean, we have Eclipse. Eclipse does a lot of the similar stuff. But if you've become familiar with the Visual Studio workflow, then, I mean, you're asking for people to make multiple disruptive steps at the same time. Yeah, that's exactly right. Multiple disruptive steps. the same time. Yeah, that's exactly right. Multiple disruptive steps. I'm stealing that.

So I thought that was a fascinating chat with that guy. And I never really thought about how closely they had to walk that legal line. And if they had blown that whole wine and Netflix thing, we might not have ever gotten the native playback that we have now, which for better or for worse, I guess. But, yeah, that was a pretty tight line, I guess. Never really appreciated that. Well, definitely seems like they walked not only a tight line, but they were able to do so with restraint and finesse and still get the result that everybody wanted.

Because that's really tough when you're dealing with all that kind of legalese. Yeah, yeah. And I agree. Per the chat room's request, we can fire off a single shot of it is negative in the Freedom Dimension. We can. Or how about a special? We'll do this. A value is negative.

How about that? There you go. A value of this is negative. There you go, chat room, based on your request. Mumblerum, did you guys – anybody want to throw out the one app that finally had to come over before they could switch to Linux on their desktop? I thought that was an interesting comment they made where sometimes Wine enables that one application. And I remember for me it was Outlook back in the day. Oh, really?

Yeah, I was able to, you know, because Evolution wasn't cutting it for me and I had to have Exchange integration for my job. So it was Outlook. Oh, Z3RQ7 in the chatroom says an MMO. Yeah, that's not surprising. Which one? Do you want to say Z3? Was it WoW? I still use Wine to play Sto today from time to time. So Wine, I

think, has helped a lot of us switch to Linux. Wimpy? Yeah, go ahead, Wimpy. Yeah, my last Windows computer was finally ousted when I could run the utilities to configure the scaler and the amplifier in the home cinema at home using those tools under Wine and USB to serial port adapter in order to configure that stuff. And that was when I finally kicked the last remaining Windows computer into touch. Yeah. Wow, Z3s, yeah.

You know what? It's funny, Wimpy. There are little things like that. I had a little device that I required Windows to do firmware updates for a while, and when I finally got rid of that device, I was like, oh, don't need that anymore. Just slowly check things off the list. And it was all years ago now. So we have a show on the Jupy Jupiter Broadcasting Network called Women's Tech Radio.

And one of the hosts on there, her name is Paige. And she sat down quite a bit on the live stream and had a lot of really interesting stuff. She works heavily in open source development. She talked a lot about doing angel development for small projects that need angel development instead of angel funding. They'll do angel development. She talked about all of those things. But her and Noah, I grabbed a little bit from a conversation on the stream that her and Noah had that I thought was particularly interesting because I've never really thought about it, being a white male.

I never really had to. But Paige mentions, and Noah kind of talks about it, they're both coming from a minority standpoint, about how a minority has a bigger chance to make a huge impact in open source than they do when dealing with commercial software development. And they talk a little bit about that, and it's pretty powerful stuff. People are offended by that stuff, but the nice thing about open source is it doesn't necessarily have to be a core member of the group that can do something like that.

If just one person is bothered by it, hey, listen, that's a great thing. They can just open it up. They can go edit that stuff. Yeah. And they can push those changes, and then they can be accepted, right? Yeah, exactly. It's one of the things that is so powerful about open sources. It has that community component.

And, you know, I've been doing kind of some sound bites here at the conference, and it's the most common thing that people are saying, like, oh, I'm into Linux and open source, even as a woman, because of the community. And I think that's a great point that you know not to throw stones but like trying to get involved as a woman in the.NET community was painful like it's very much an older crowd it's a lot of dudes and those

and it's very much that culture of what I know is what I'm worth so they don't want to share and never mind share with a girl like it really is it's unfortunate that it's still there. And I'm not saying that all.NET developers are like this. Of course, yeah. Right.

But it happens. It was the experience you had, yeah. And that's perfectly valid. At the same time, going to a Linux users group, they're like, you're here, you're awesome, we don't care who you are. Yeah, we're so happy. That's funny you say that, because statistically, proprietary software actually has a better track record of having acceptance of male-female split.

I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but it was something. Open source is notoriously low for that. It is, actually. It probably does. Yeah. And that's something I think we need to work on. I think it's because the proprietary software is the more traditional path. I disagree.

I mean, I guess I disagree why that is. I disagree because I think what it is is that there is a groundwork laid for proprietary vendors. So, for example, they have a code of conduct. They have human resources to enforce that stuff. And when somebody goes on the mailing list and says, what I need is a such and such to do such and such while I'm coding, and that would make me code faster, and that goes out to a mailing list and offends a bunch of women. Yeah, you get fired. But they don't get fired because it's open source. It's not open source,

but in the enterprise they do. So that's my, I think that plays, I think plays the biggest role, personal opinion. I think that that definitely influences it, but like,

so how would you explain the idea that Ruby on Rails is there are women, women who code in Ruby on Rails is about 4%. Like developers who identify as women who code in Rails is 4%. And that's open source, but it's also proprietary.

And I think that part of that answer is that the numbers for women in computer science are still decent. They're not great. They are growing. But so proprietary software is the path that you come out of a comp sci degree. You generally go into proprietary software.

You don't usually go into an open source career or into a web dev career. A web dev is more the non-traditional path, my path. I have a degree in theater, like technical theater design. It's clearly not a comp sci degree. But my non-traditional path wound me up in web dev, which is where a lot of people end up because it's kind of that crafting side of Cody.

It's interesting you say that because a lot of the people that I knew that originally went to school for graphic design are now much more sought after for doing application development. They want those people. They want those people with the keen eye. And the people like me that were kind of from the old school, open it up, do everything in G edit, we're not so desired anymore. We actually had an interview about this recently.

They call those people unicorns. They're designers who can also be developers. We had an interview on that in the last couple weeks. I was just looking. Actually, it's been a little while. It was episode 15, Unicorns Don't Exist. That was one. Yeah, that's the one with Liz.

Hey, while you have that site pulled up, maybe Paige can tell us. So if somebody was interested in Women's Tech Radio, what time, what day, how does that work? What does the schedule look like for that? It comes out Wednesday mornings over at jupiterbroadcasting.com. All right. Yeah. And it's hosted by Paige and Angela.

And I was just looking, Paige, you actually, you were the interviewee in episode 22, if people want to know more about Paige. Yeah, that's actually the... I'm long-winded, shocker. That's a good problem to have if you're going to do a podcast. It does seem to be. So you guys actually just got kind of the back end of my story, and the interview is the front end of my story.

Yeah, exactly. And then 23 just came out this week, Network is Your Net Worth. And then, which I'm feeling this week, episode 21, The Importance of Meetups. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, what a great week for that. I would have to say if there's one thing that we have had as a consistent thing across all of our interviews, it's how important it is to get out there and meet people. Yeah, I know, right?

I've noticed that, too. It's hard, but, you know, especially as a nerd, if you're an introvert. And you can really easily convince yourself that Twitter and Google Plus and Hangouts and Skype solve that problem for you. Yeah. And you can kind of just live in that for a while. So I promise I won't judge you for the answer to this question. Sure. Do you run Linux?

I do when it's useful. Okay. I have a question for you too. Paige, what technology gets you the most excited right now? Awesome. For me, I would agree with one of our interviews from today, renewable energy. Oh, yeah?

I'm all about it. I've got my Tesla hat on. Did you hear about the Tesla home battery and all that good stuff. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I'm all about it. I've got my Tesla hat on. Did you hear about the Tesla home battery and all that good stuff? Oh, I have not. I'm a little behind. We just had a big project at work. They just announced it for Earth Day. Yeah.

So I love solar specifically, I think. It's phenomenal the idea that if we could cover, what is it, something like 15% of the U.S. in solar panels, we could more than exceed our energy needs, and that's with current solar technology. Yeah, wow. Check out Page on Women's Tech Radio. They come out on Wednesday mornings, and they got some great interviews with some open-source developers

at LinuxFest Northwest this year. They had some portable recording gear, and it makes it a little easier when you don't have a camera, so they're able to go around and find people at the booth and interview them. But it was really good talk with Paige on the live stream for those of you who got to see the whole thing. Well, LinuxFest

was really great this year, Matt. Don't you think it was maybe the best fest yet? It seems like it's always hard to equate it because it's like every year is better than the last, but this year definitely felt really, really explosive in a good way. And I think a biggest hard to equate it because it's like every year is better than the last, but this year definitely felt really, really explosive in a good way. And I think a biggest piece of that is we

didn't seem to have any Mac equipment at the table. That was like a thing. I kept looking around. I was like, well, I know there's a Mac here somewhere. There was actually not very much Mac equipment at the whole event. There was a few, though. But yeah. It was really cool. And it seemed like a huge crowd. Yeah. It seemed like a ton of people showed up, which was lots of swag, which was really awesome.

And now we look forward to the next events. I know coming up, the guys are going to be at Self. We're also going to be at OSCON. And I'm working on BSDCAN, which isn't locked in yet because it's on my passport yet. But I'm working on. So those are upcoming events, Self and Bsd can and oscon and oscon i think is in july or something like that in portland sounds right yeah i know it's in portland yeah that that'll be a that's a nice one because i'm just going to take the train down there

possibly or go down with the family and stay on the coast and then drive into town so that'll be good stuff it's really cool to see everybody in person And if you'd like to go to a future meetup, meetup.com slash jupiterbroadcasting is where we're going to schedule those, including non-really big things, like Michael Dominick from Coder Radio is going to go to a Microsoft event in New York in a little bit,

and he'll probably have a meetup there and schedule it at the meetup page. That's a lot of fun. And we brought a few people back to the studio after LinuxFest, and we had a barbecue here. Albert and his brother brought in some burgers. That was awesome. We had dogs, and we had chicken skewers, and we all celebrated by everybody queued up YouTube videos on the Chromecast that Blaster bought for the studio.

That was fun. Yeah. And so we just watched those all night, and I think they kept going until – oh, I don't know. I don't remember what time you left, Matt, but they kept going for quite a while after that. Oh, did they really? Yeah, I think – I left not too long after. So I could see them going well into the night. Yeah, well, you know, because everybody was just like couch locked.

Nobody wanted to get up. Even when it was time to get food, people didn't really want to get up. Everybody was exhausted. It was very little sleep. But, boy, I tell you what, it really makes me think I think we have the best crew in the world. Like it was unbelievable the stuff we pulled off. We had unbelievable obstacles. You guys, you've heard about some of the stuff, but you have no idea.

You just have no idea. It's so amazing. So it was really cool to have everybody here and to get to do that in person. I mean, I'm always impressed with what we're able to accomplish with all of us all over the place, all remotely. Yeah, right. But, geez, Louise, it was unbelievable what we accomplished in the time that we all had together. Unbelievable. Well, I think the secret's the behind the scenes guys.

The folks that, you know, you see them in the video clips walking in the background. You don't really hear from them. And I can think of three off the top of my head that just, I mean, you know. The scenes, guys. The folks that you see them in the video clips walking in the background. You don't really hear from them. And I can think of three off the top of my head that just, I mean, you know. Everybody has one. Yeah. It was so awesome. Yeah.

And so it was great. We had almost everybody out to dinner for the whole crew, which was really cool and all that stuff. That's right. All right, Matt. Well, we'll wrap it up right there. That'll kind of bring us to the end of this week's Unplugged. But I'd love to hear you guys' feedback, especially on that ZFS stuff. So don't forget, you can go over to jupyterbroadcasting.com slash contact, and then choose Linux

Unplugged from the drop-down. Or, even better, you go to linuxactionshow.reddit.com and you can start a thread in our subreddit and the rest of the community gets to engage. And if you're going to do the ZFS one, I'd really, really like that. I think that'd be really awesome. And I have a quick plug. If you want to keep up with me, make sure to head on over to mattheartley.com. There's lots of stuff happening there. plug. If you want to keep up with me, make sure to head on over to Matt Hartley.com.

There's lots of stuff happening there. Please subscribe. Definitely want to keep up on some of the stuff. You will care. Trust me on that. Yeah. And what is it? Matt Hartley.com slash t-shirt.

Yes. The t-shirt is, it's, I'd love to get that tipped because that will help these new projects come to fruition. Very, very close. Matt Hartley.com slash t-shirt.

Check it out. They got a great design over there. Don't forget Linux Unplugged is live on Tuesdays over at jblive.tv. Join us. Won't you? Jupiter Broadley.com slash t-shirt check it out they got a great design over there don't forget Linux Unplugged is live on Tuesdays over at jblive.tv join us won't you jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar it's where you get that

converted to your local time zone alright everybody thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode see you right back here next week so

so Okay, I have one more clip that I want to play from LinuxFest Northwest, but I feel like if I put it in the post show, then I'm abstained from any legal ramifications. And I don't believe I actually... Now, Matt, you may get implicated in this video, but I don't believe I'm actually implicated in this video. But Matt and I had no knowledge of this. We can both say this was not premeditated.

I'm not like pole dancing or nothing, right? No, no, it's just, Matt, you know what happened. The last few years at LinuxFest Northwest, our booth has come under attack. Now, Jupyter Broadcasting does not start a war. Jupy Jupiter Broadcasting does not start a war. Jupiter Broadcasting would never start a war, but Jupiter Broadcasting will finish a war and every year,

every year, Nerf guns are brought to our booth while we are live on the air and we are assaulted. We are assaulted and this year, this year we struck back. This year, this year we brought guns to a knife fight. And I play you the clip as it was captured on the live stream. And I got to hand it to you, Matt.

You are two for two. Last year you had the money shot, and this year you have the money shot again, Matt. You're two for two. You got to watch this. All right, I got it open. Now, this is something that happened. For those of you who have not watched our coverage before, see, we've got a little problem here.

We have to have a serious conversation. Your Jupyter Broadcasting booth is about to become under attack. Tell me how it's going to become under attack. There is an aggressive sect of Linux users present at LinuxFest Northwest. They are armed with Nerf weapons and they attack us. And you better arm yourself, Noah, and get your camera ready because all they have to say...

Now under the table there, I may or may not be handing Noah arms. Matt may or may not have passed them to me. I was putting them down both ways. I was like, we're dancing. Let's get her on. As I'm talking on camera, I'm opening them, but I have to be sly because they're monitoring our feeds before they attack. It may be dawn.

Noah, we are being armed as we speak. This is troubling. And for insurance purposes, I would ask that you all make your own local recording. Is that me or the staff? So now you can... Jed walks by. He's running a trench coat. Go, Noah, go.

What am I doing? Oh, you're... Oh, oh. Oh, all right. All right. All right. Okay, all right. Okay.

So you're giving us a gun? Now, what I didn't know at this time, but if you watch the video playback closely, Jed is implanting his children strategically in the crowd.

You're giving... Yeah, and note the BSD guy off in the foreground. Yeah, yeah. What's up with him? Note Alan Jude, member of the Jupiter Broadcasting crew, host of TechSnap and BSD Now, wearing a Jupiter Broadcasting shirt.

Note Alan. You're not even in the camera shot. What's Alan doing? First shot fired by Alan Jude! First shot fired by Alan Jude! Now Jed. That was mine. Okay, now we sit there.

We take it for a minute, right? Now we fire back. Get the traitor, Alan. Get the traitor. The silly string goes crazy. Mr. Citizen Blaster nailed him. And then there goes Matt. Matt breaks out the silly string.

Nails Jed's kid. Nails Jed's kid again. And then Matt nails Jed. Watch the man strike the face. Boom! Oh, money shot. Now,

a little behind the scenes thing here. My silly string actually had a broken nozzle. So when I initially sprayed it, it sprayed everywhere. So I had to, like, reposition it before I could get my shot off. And I wanted to make sure it counted. And then Matt's going in for the kill. And this is me.

I'm calling Matt out. It's okay. It's okay. No. No, it's okay. No more. We have spilled enough blood. You guys are so open, man.

No. Oh, no. I'm being shot at still. I don't know how this happened right now Chris is going for oh my gosh, liability, liability I don't know how this happened if you look at where all the silly string has come and gone

none of it points back to us kick the silly string out, get it out of here get rid of that get rid of the evidence can you believe Alan turned on us? I cannot believe that. Now, one thing I want to also point out that's really, really important is the man that was on the ground really early on, Albert was out there with a broom. Yeah, he was, wasn't he?

He was out there sweeping that stuff up. I mean, I was doing a little nitpicky whatever. I think because Albert did that prevented us from getting into any trouble because we got right up on the cleanup crew and that was good. Yeah, the red shirt walked by. I gave him kind of an original serious death look and he kept walking and it was all good.