LINUX Unplugged - Episode 96: Fedora's Bright Future | LUP 96

Episode Date: June 10, 2015

The Fedora Project Lead Matthew Miller joins us to discuss what’s coming up in Fedora 23 & reflect on Fedora 22.Plus Mark Shuttleworth unveils another device running Ubuntu, Angela stops by with a switch to Linux update, some quick story updates & more!

Okay. I was going to do it. Will you describe to Angela sort of your approach to taking some of the excess revenue generated for the Ubuntu Mate project and how you pass it on to some other open source projects? Because I don't think she's heard that before. Okay. So we receive donations from our awesome community and users, and we've got far more money coming in than we need to cover the costs of the project. So when there's a surplus, we identify other open source projects that we depend on or are making use of, and we send some of those donations back to those projects.

And that hopefully keeps them motivated and keeps them covering their costs. And it helps generate some collaboration and contact and communication with the various projects that we reach out to in that way. That's good PR for his project, too. So you pretty much fund the projects that you're most interested in? um to some extent so um this month um we've given some money to tlp which is an advanced power management utility for linux which is going to be integrated into the next release of ubuntu mate now i've been using that for some years and it really increases battery endurance on laptops and things so um you know i wanted to integrate that and it started a dialogue with that developer but we've also sponsored other individuals and projects it's not like loads of money i'm not going to make anyone rich overnight or anything

but it's um it's a nice way to recognize their contributions because as single application and utility developers they probably don't generate much donations for their individual projects, but by using a distribution as a platform, we can be a bit more generous than you could be as an individual. We've been kicking around

in-house, sort of, as we've transitioned more and more of our production over to Linux or open-source tools, now we start to kind of feel like we'd like to come up with a model where we can contribute some amount to the projects we depend on and maybe even, you know, help encourage them to continue to support Linux because some of those projects that Linux support is a little tenuous. So it seems like there's a whole range of software, specifically around media production, that I've been sitting around and waiting for to get better for a really, really long time. And some of it's gotten a lot better and some of it still hasn't. And so I'm starting to wonder if maybe there isn't a way we could start to move the dial there a little bit. So how have you – do you just kind of personally choose where the money goes or is there – because that's – the main thing I'm worried about is if I did something like that, I feel like it would be constant scrutiny,

constantly questioning how much and where I sent the money. And I would like to base it on well, I feel like this is what we can afford to do and this is how that project is important to us or to media production in general or open source syndrome, whatever. I feel like I'd like to have some freedom over it to sort of help encourage projects that make our content better. But I feel

like it would be constantly up against scrutiny. So how have you avoided that? Well, at the moment, this is one of the few things that I've not actually gone to the Ubuntu Mate community and said, which projects do you think we should sponsor? I've actually made that decision for myself based on the projects that I feel uh are most important to ubuntu mate that aren't necessarily part of ubuntu or mate so they've been quite diverse i mean i've actually sponsored one of the elementary projects a couple of months ago and now have good relationships there um and i've still got plenty of ideas in the pipeline about what projects I would like to support through Ubuntu Mate over the next few months.

And when I start running out of ideas, then I'll start asking the community. And I think, you know, there's obvious candidates. For example, we haven't sponsored Mozilla yet. We haven't sponsored LibreOffice yet. We're not going to make any significant contribution there, but we should recognize the part that they play in making up an operating system. So they're clearly on the list and we'll get some recognition. But I'm sure the Ubuntu Mate community have got projects that are included in Ubuntu Mate they'd like to see receive some money.

And when I start running out of ideas, I'll ask. Yeah, okay. That makes sense. And that might be kind of an approach I would take too. I've been kicking it around for a while, trying to figure out what I'm most comfortable with and really willing to commit to. I actually think the way Martin does it is the right way to do it.

He picks what he thinks is most appropriate. And I know that if someone sent him an email saying, hey, Martinin i really think you should consider donating to these people then i'm sure if it's not unreasonable it will go on the list but i don't think it's necessarily a good idea to put out a poll and say who should we give the money to because that can cause resentment for people who were at the bottom of the list and can cause people to game the system and try and force Martin to give money to someone

he might not necessarily think is the most important or worthy recipient. Good point. Well, thank you for that vote of confidence. Well, in order to find out which projects are out there, you're kind of getting a, not necessarily a polling, not to vote, but just to get the ideas. I feel like if I did one a month or something, I could probably do it for a year easily on my own, just the ones we depend on here for production.

And I kind of feel like, in some ways, if they were commercial software projects, I would have paid for them many times over now. Like, geez, how could I even put a dollar amount on FFmpeg? I don't even, like, I can't even. FFmpeg is worth more than any proprietary commercial piece of software we have from Adobe or Apple. And so I just can't even fathom.

Or really, in some ways, VLC is pretty freaking important too. So it's really weird. Like, these open source projects couldn't do our job without them now. Now that we've – when we look to replace proprietary components with open source ones, when we made the switch, we made the switch because they were better choices, not just because they were the free and open choices. And so once you make that switch, it's a real a it's kind of a mind f to think about how much money you'd actually be willing to spend on those things that you just get for free i'm inclined to agree with mine though that i i if you if you pick out like the big ones like mozilla and libra office and and others that you've listed there's the possibility that you would be you know a drop

in the ocean i mean i'm sure they're very grateful and thankful that you're you know giving showing your appreciation by giving them some you know hard-earned cash but the flip side is for all the money that you give to those really big ones there's all these unsung heroes out there creating some tiny little thing that's a tiny cog in the whole mechanism of Jupyter Broadcasting that doesn't necessarily get the recognition. And I know you, as a broadcaster, are looking for content all the time. And if you find and discover those tiny little projects

and you chuck a few bucks their way and say, you know, I really appreciate the work you're doing, it may well help motivate them to continue working on it because you never know these tiny little projects, how much time they've got and whether they're happy to carry on working on the project. Or if they're burning out or whatever. Yeah, exactly.

Welcome to Linux Unplugged, your weekly Linux talk show that has its chat room full screen on your screen. My name is Chris. And I'm Angela. Hey there, Angela. I'm glad to have you here. Now I'm not sweating alone.

I appreciate having somebody to sweat with during the show. I may or may not have pants on right now. Yeah. And you may or may not be in a tank top right now. Yeah. This is the summer edition of the Jupyter Broadcasting Programming. It kind of reminds me when we used to broadcast out of the garage. We also were affected.

At least here in the studio, we don't get crazy cold. We only get crazy hot. So it only goes one direction. Well, coming up on today's episode of 96, holy smokes, episode 96 of the show, we got Matt coming on from the Fedora Project. Matthew Miller will be joining us to talk about Fedora 22 and Fedora 23. Mark Shuttleworth

was on stage today playing a Can You Name What It Is game. Yes, Ubuntu is now running on yet another crazy device. We'll be talking about that. Angela's here to give us an update on her switch to Linux, and she's got her top four things that she's run into and solved, or maybe has not solved since she's

visited us last. And I'm going to say one of them straight up, I think it's just one of the reasons why Arch isn't super great for new users, but she doesn't mind tackling it. We'll talk about that a little bit in the show. And then at the end, if we have some time, we've got some great insights into why some of us are just maniac distro

hoppers. I think we might finally have the answer, and we'll get some insights into all of that crazy distro hopping that we like to do. But first, before we do all of that, let's say hey to our virtual do. But first, but first, before we do all of that, let's say hey to our virtual lug. Time-appropriate greetings, Mumble Room. Yo.

Hello. Popey is always on it. He's like, boom, right in there with it. That's nice. Okay, so I just wanted to commence with you guys. What's going on with SourceForge? So since we had a chance to get together last time, it's also come out now that the Nmap project was taken over in the same way that GIMP for Windows was.

Also, VLC, back in the day, like this didn't get a lot of attention, but back in the day, check this out, the founder of VLC sent an email to Ars Technica that said that the VLC project's account on SourceForge was taken over in 2012, which was the most downloaded project at the time. In fact, it's still one of the most top downloaded projects on SourceForge was taken over in 2012, which was the most downloaded project at the time. In fact, it's still one of the most top downloaded projects on SourceForge, even though it's not their primary hosting. They say, too, that when that happened and then VLC moved to their own hosting infrastructure after that event, surprisingly, those new servers were DDoSed. They don't know if it was related or not. So what's going on, Ange, if you're not familiar, SourceForge is a site that hosts a lot of open source projects, gives them mirrors for downloading.

And, you know, when you're writing free code, it's not like you have a bunch is a site that hosts a lot of open source projects, gives them mirrors for downloading. And, you know, when you're writing free code, it's not like you have a bunch of extra money to have a bunch of mirrors. So this is a very handy service. And what they started doing is they take, like, the Windows installer for GIMP and they'd package it up with a bunch of adware. And so when you download it, you get, like, the SourceForge version of GIMP that has ads and installs on your machines and all that kind of crap. And now we find out that they're doing it to other open source projects as well, like Nmap and VLC. Wait, so SourceForge is grabbing people's open source projects, packaging them, loading them, and then distributing them?

Why would people even use SourceForge if they're doing that? Well, SourceForge has a lot of momentum. Is it a distribution method for open source projects? A lot of people go there to find software, a lot of old links on websites linked back to SourceForge. And why wouldn't they just use GitHub? There's A lot of people go there to find software. A lot of old links on websites link back to Source Project. And why wouldn't they just use GitHub? GitHub's not so much for hosting the file, although people do that as well.

There's a lot of other alternatives now. It's old. That's why it's there. It's also Source Project's management has changed. Source Project's management changed, and then they decided to screw up the old trusty Source Project that used to be good.

There was no GitHub, and then GitHub came along and did the thing it does better than what SourceForge wanted to be, and then everybody moved off SourceForge, and then people at SourceForge feel like they need to get a lot of money. At least that's my perspective. I'm just making that up. I don't need to get on the soapbox again,

but what I don't like about it, and it probably seems pretty obvious to you, is it kind of, to the average consumer, gives open source projects a bad name. Yeah. If I tell you to go download VLC, and then you download, God, this is the worst case. We've had this happen with family members because they just screw it up. We'll tell them to go download VLC, and then they'll go Google VLC, and they'll download some adware version of VLC and get a ton of crap on their PC. Or like bloatware, right? Isn't that what it's called? Yeah. And that gives open source projects like VLC a bad name, just that kind of stuff.

So now when you go to kind of a well-established distribution point for open source software, and they're distributing open source software that looks official with adware, it looks like it's the projects doing it, if you're sort of a casual average user. It's a huge disappointment. SourceForge is becoming another CNETsDownload.com Elroises, and I completely agree. Download.com did the same thing. Let's come out with a new one.

Yeah? Yeah. I don't know. What do you think, Alex? Binary downloads? Tell me more. Yes, I think SourceForge is still the best for binary downloads. There was a page that compared all alternatives,

and for binary, GitHub just doesn't cut it. Yeah, there is actually. The Mirror Network is nice too, let's be honest. Free bandwidth. You can never really sneeze at that. I posted the link. Yes, thank you. From Rotten Corpse's blog. Yeah, that's cool. I was the link. Yes, thank you. From Rotten Corpses blog.

Yeah, that's cool. I was just going to say, yeah. All right. So I just would like to get the audience's sort of opinion on that. It's kind of a shame. It is kind of a shame. What is andrewsdownloads.com? Oh, try it.

Click it. What's the worst that could happen? It's not a link. I will copy it. Oh, yeah. Come on. Let's hope it's something good. Come on. Come on. I want something good here. Let's see what we get. What's the worst that could happen? It's not a link. Come on. I will copy it. Oh, yeah. Come on. Let's hope it's something good. Come on.

Come on. I want something good here. Let's see what we get. What is it? What is it? Server not found. I think it's wasted effort. Darn it.

I thought it was a wasted effort. Ah, darn it. Go figure. Way to get me all excited. Yeah. Well, maybe by the end of the show you could have something there. All right. I wanted to read a bit of feedback we got into the show.

And since we're going to be talking with Matthew Miller from Fedora, this is a great bit of feedback. This was Tehomolox. Tehomolox experience with Gnome Shell 3.16 on Wayland 1.8. He says, since Wayland 1.8 was just released, I've decided to give Gnome Shell and Wayland a go. I'm using it on an upgraded Arch. I've been impressed overall with the smoothness,

like resizing and dragging Windows around. However, there's still some problems that are unique to Wayland. Now, this is what we've all been wondering. What do I lose if I switch to this new display server on Linux? No copy and paste support between ex-Wayland and native applications. No middle button paste. Wait, with native apps you can't copy and paste? That seems... Well, so you have apps that know they're in Wayland,

and then you have these old X apps that are from the old display server that are running in compatibility mode. You can't paste between the new smart apps. Oh, I see. So a lot of important apps, though, are still running in this compatibility mode, like VLC, Chromium. Even though native versions exist, they're not packaged properly. X Wayland applications are not clickable when placed on the second monitor.

Evian's PDF viewer displays every document at 400%, and you can't change that. Double-click doesn't work. Okay, so as somebody that uses shortcuts on a mouse, is a middle-button-click a mouse thing? So, yeah, you can highlight in Linux. You can highlight text, and it automatically gets copied to the X clipboard, and if you use the middle-button to click, it automatically pastes from the X clipboard.

You never have to do Control-C, Control-V, nothing. Just highlight, click. That's genius. Nice. It actually turns out, too, that they never actually, I don't think, intentionally put that feature in there. But he says, overall, he's been pretty satisfied. If you're okay with those problems, for my use case,

it's not really, he says, not ready to be his daily driver, but it's pretty exciting it's gotten this far. Anybody else in the mumble room had a chance to play with Wayland as their main desktop for a little while? All these people didn't know about it. Well, you don't think so? No. I have it on the Yolo phone. Oh yeah, of course, yes.

And I'm sure it works fine in that use case, right? Yeah, quite good. Yeah. I played with it briefly when I had, I think I played with it, I don't think, I think it was with Aurora 21. I think I played with it when I had it on an Intel driver machine. And for like the five minutes I used it, I was pretty impressed how well it worked.

Go ahead, Corky. There is one issue with porting. Well, GNOME has partial Wayland support now, but for all other desktop environments and window managers, the developers have to go through a long process of porting it. And when some of them can't even get to GTK3, it's going to be quite a hard

process to get to an incomplete display server. Yeah. That's why there's going to be a lot of compatibility stuff around for a long time. I'm not in a huge rush, but it is good to see it moving right along. Okay, I want to just take a minute and read one more bit of feedback,

and then we'll get to Matthew. So this one came in from KBNap. Kidnap? KBNap? What do you think, Ange? KBNap? KBNap? I don't know. KABABABANAMNAP? I'm going to go with that. Yeah, that's right. It's called DOCLI, a command line tool for DigitalOcean.

He says, I'm a long-time listener of the show, all the JV shows, and I've been using DO for quite a time thanks to Jupyter Broadcasting. So I decided to try and make DOCLI, a command line utility for Linux, and probably OS 10, for managing your DigitalOcean infrastructure. Now, check this out, Anne. She made this tool. Okay. Be warned.

He says it's in beta, and he needs testers. So if you're feeling like you want to jump in, he'd love it. You can check out. He gives the command there to check it out. So it's like beta and he needs testers. So if you're feeling like you want to jump in, he'd love it. You can check out. He gives the command there to check it out. And so it's like here's an example. A command would be docli dash dash verbose dash dash no send than the command. And you can do like delete command safely. You could pass commands up to the droplet.

He says it's using the DigitalOcean API wrapper library behind the scenes. And if you use Rust, feel free to give in and contribute. It's written in Rust. Keep up the great work on the last community. And he says it is in the AUR, if you're on Arch, called doccli-bin or doccli-git in the AUR if you want to install that. So this is a Linux command line utility that KB Kanap wrote to manage your DigitalOcean droplet using their API.

Nice. And then submitted it into the show. Isn't that really cool? That is really cool. So it's called DOCLI. And in fact, while we're talking about that, why don't I mention DigitalOcean? And do you know about DigitalOcean? I sure do.

Oh, you do use DigitalOcean like on a daily basis now that you're on that Minecraft server. And actually, OwnCloud, too. You're using OwnCloud all the time. Well, yeah, DigitalOcean is like our go-to now for when we need Linux infrastructure. You know, we used to build out servers here in the garage. I think it's hot, for one. And that gets ridiculous because I end up

spending all my time doing system administration instead of podcasting, which doesn't make any sense. DigitalOcean makes a ton of sense. It's simple cloud hosting dedicated to offering the most intuitive and easy way for you to spin up your own cloud server. And get ready for this. Boss-level stuff here. If you use the promo code D-O, unplugged, one word, lowercase, D-O, unplugged, you get a $10 credit.

That's like a two-month credit. It is. It is because you can get started for $5 a month, and you can get going under 55 seconds. And for $5 a month, you'll get 512 megabytes of RAM, a 20 gigabyte SSD, one CPU, and a terabyte of transfer. You just spin it up when you need it, spin it back down if you don't. It's pretty simple. They offer hourly pricing if you want to go that route.

And then our $10 credit, DO1 plug, really, really gets you somewhere. And they have data center locations in New York, San Francisco, Singapore, Amsterdam, and in London. Isn't that proper? And a brand new one in Germany as well. Oh, yeah? Yeah, it's super slick. It's got their fastest SSDs yet, which is already ridiculous with their SSDs throughout that whole business,

which is brave. And also back when they first launched it, a little cray. But now it's like you got to have it. And now all the other service providers are spending a ton of money trying to catch up. And meanwhile, DigitalOcean is like, that's cool. You can try to catch up. We're going to keep iterating. They just released a new version

of their API a couple of weeks ago. They just rolled out support for Fedora 22 across the DigitalOcean infrastructure a couple of days ago. They've been working on FreeBSD 10.1 support. They got new tutorials out there. But the best thing about DigitalOcean is that sweet

interface. DigitalOcean has a beautiful intuitive control panel. Somehow they managed to make it easy and fast to use, crazy intuitive, but it's not watered down. The DigitalOcean control panel still allows you to do full feature DNS management. You can create and destroy and snapshot and make templates out of your droplets. And, of course, they have one-click installation and deployments for the entire stack. So you can do a LAMP stack from the Linux kernel all the way up to Apache. Or you can say, I already have an existing Ubuntu machine.

I want to deploy Ruby on Rails or GitLab, something like that. I love it. And if you use DO Unplugged, you'll get a $10 credit. And you can see why I rave about it so much. And don't forget about their API. Just like our emailer did, you can extend the functionality of their dashboard with the API and start automating things, automating deployment, testing, spinning up machines, destroying of machines, it gets cray.

Also, they have some of the best tutorials on the web. I think you can go check for yourself. Go to DigitalOcean, click on that community section, and then be like, boom, in my face. They're also hiring right now for Linux admins and content editors. Go check out DigitalOcean. Go look at their community section. Right now, they just posted Apache content

caching on Ubuntu 14.04, Node.js application production, and how to get started with FreeBSD 10.1 tutorials. It's good stuff. They have professional editors and crap like that. I'm like, I don't even – at first, I was like, why are you guys doing all of this? Like, people can just go here and read these, and they're not even applicable to DigitalOcean. And then I realized they're playing a long game because the thing is at $5 a month, that gets you in the door because how are you going to beat that value? But then like for a lot of people, they can go to get these tutorials and the value you get then out of that $5 because of these tutorials, they're unlocking stuff that like back when I did IT contracting, this was the secret of the business. This was the secret sauce.

And I'm like, oh, that's why they're doing this. This is super smart. And then it really clicked with me when they started hiring multiple content editors and copyright editors and started paying people to submit tutorials. They're serious about this. And that completes the DigitalOcean picture. You've got those great SSDs, the great data center locations, the fantastic interface, Linux-based technology, KVM for the virtualization stack. And they're always current with CoreOS and Fedora, and they're keeping up with FreeBSD. They do a great job there. And then they wrap it all up with those fantastic tutorials.

DigitalOcean.com. Use the promo code D01plugged when you check out. And a great, big, huge thank you to DigitalOcean for sponsoring Linux Unplugged. Man, it is hot in here. Wow, it is hot in here. Holy smokes. Holy smokes. Anyways, I wanted to welcome Matthew Miller to the show from the Fedora project.

He heads the Fedora project up over there, at least so far. Yeah, a year now. Yeah, so Matthew, what's the stat for the average Fedora Project lead? Isn't it something abysmal? Well, let's see. There's been only eight or so, so it's hard to get any good data. And Fedora's been around for? In like three months?

No. No, I'm just kidding. No, but actually... Ten years. Yeah, eight and ten years. But I got a good feeling about you. I think you're going to make it for a while. So are you...

Thank you. Are you doing okay? Are you exhausted from the big release? Have you caught your breath from Fedora 22? Yeah, I think from Fedora 22. That seems like that was in the distant past at this point. Really? Already, huh? I'm a little exhausted.

We had a big week last week. We had a release engineering FAD, which FAD is Fedora Activity Day. And so we flew a bunch of people into... Actually, this one was held at Red Hat's Westford office, which is... Westford is a distant suburb of Boston. So we flew a bunch of people in and there was a bunch of hacking. And that actually went on all weekend, but I

ran away. But that was a big, cool, busy thing. But yeah, we're kind of busy working on infrastructure and stuff for Fedora 23 now, because a six-month cycle comes quick. Yeah, it does. So when you say infrastructure, what kind of things are being worked on at this point in this point in the release cycle already?

Yeah, so, well, a lot of this stuff is, you know, the build systems that we make the release with. And so that pretty much has to be in place by the alpha in order for it to really work. And actually, one of the things we have right now is that it's actually hard to make any changes after the alpha, which again, that's like basically halfway into the six months. And so the last six months, if we want to like make a Vagrant image all of a sudden,

because we decided at last minute that that's a high priority, it's hard to add those things on. And with the world changing so quickly, there's always last minute things to add on. And with the world changing so quickly, there's always last minute things to add on. So part of the idea is to make it more flexible so we can hopefully have some more last minute changes, getting more towards a continuous delivery of release engineers, release engineering tools, so that we can kind of adjust as we need. And then there's just a lot of, you know, like technical debt and cleanup,

as all 10-year-old projects have. So 22 is out. Is there anything when you're going into 23 now that you're like, oh, we definitely didn't hit the right note on this point in 22, and we want to make sure we get this note right in 23? Is there anything that stands out for you? Because to me, 22 on the outside seems like a pretty great release. Yeah, no, I think it is a really great release. I think it's a lot of polish over Fatora 21, which was also a great release.

So it's nice to have that increasing polish. And so I think so far we're seeing a lot of that kind of thing. There's a new feature for secure DNS, DNSSEC, that's being worked on right now, which I think is pretty cool. DNSSEC that's being worked on right now, which I think is pretty cool. I think that in addition, that actually includes having a local resolver on your system, which we actually

didn't have before. And I'm spoiled because I worked for universities and had local servers that were high quality and fast. But yeah, I installed this test feature and realized browsing the web at a coffee shop was like a hundred times

faster. So much faster over Wi-Fi. Wow, I wish I would have done that years ago. So that's hopefully going to be default in Fedora 23. So that's a nice workstation feature there. Cool. I've also heard just today, I think I read that there's going

to be support for firmware updates on new EFI machines from within Fedora. Can you talk about that? I think that that cover is about my knowledge of it. Okay. I know I talked a little bit to Peter Jones who's working on that. But, yeah, that's basically – so you don't have to go into some other operating system or some weird boot to update your firmware. Yeah. And I just think, you know, as that becomes more prominent,

that's going to be really nice. Now, Matt, one thing I had you on here before and I asked you about and I was hoping to see more in 22, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are on 23, is we see these, when we go to conferences and events, and you must see it too when you travel, just these conferences and events, these Linux conferences and events are awash in MacBooks.

Like it's maybe sometimes like, depending on the venue, 70% of the machines there, 80% of the machines there are MacBooks at Linux events. And so I have been just so desperate for a distribution to come along and say, we are really going to tackle the MacBook problem and handle its, you know, SMC firmware, its weird boot system setup. And we're really going to try to understand this and make it easy for Mac users to have an open source workstation they can load on their premium hardware. Is this an area at all you guys are continuing to look at? Any discussion there? Yeah. I mean, so the Mac hardware itself is kind of hard because it's not like Apple wants to bend over backwards to work with us on that kind of thing. Not that their engineers are bad people or anything, just that it's not their company priority.

It's not a priority, yeah. They certainly don't care about other operating systems running on their hardware. They're kind of a unified system. And so we often have problems with wireless drivers and things like that. And the webcam and whatnot. Don't work out of the box. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

So that's going to continue to be a challenge. We're going to continue to work on it because we'd love for it to work on the Mac hardware. I think we also have some other work going on to get it running on some of the nice, you know, Ultrabook kind of non-Mac hardware that looks and feels as nice as that. I think traditionally Red Hat has given Lenovo laptops to all their employees, so Lenovo has been the safe laptop for Fedora and a lot of Linux distributions because of that. And not that we're abandoning Lenovo or anything or that we actually had a formal commitment to that, but I think we're branching out in some of the shinier laptops as well. I know one of the desktop people was showing me one of these Koshiba laptops that splits in two. You can pull the tablet off, and they had Fedora working on that. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

It's kind of weird. You leave the keyboard behind. Yeah, I've seen that. Okay, so let's shift gears back to Fedora. And one of the big transitions that's been going on now for, what, two releases? Or more, really? But really, the last two releases I feel like came to the surface was the transition from one of the big transitions that's been going on now for, what, two releases? Or more, really? But really, the last two releases, I feel like it came to the surface, was the transition from YUM to DNF. And for the most part, it's been pretty clean.

But I guess there's still some cleanup to do. Perhaps GNOME Software is still using YUM on the back end, and so that can sometimes cause problems. How's that transition going? Actually, there's a thing called Hockey, or I'm not really sure how you pronounce it. There's a library underneath it. And both Gnome software and DNF are using it, but they're using it differently. And then Yum uses its own thing. So right now you could potentially have three different things going on at once.

So that will hopefully become more unified in, I don't know if that's proposed for 23, but in the future, so it'll all be in one place. Yeah, so right now you can easily download all the repository metadata three times if you're using all those things, and that's kind of wasteful, let alone annoying. So how do I know as an end user that DNF is going to be it now for a while? Because I feel like Yum just finally kind of got squared away. So how do I know as an end user it's safe to invest in? I feel like when Linux distributions sort of change out these things,

as an end user, I sometimes am left going, oh, now I feel like these core components that I thought were like temples of my distribution are interchangeable and I'm not so sure I want to get really super connected to this new new component is DNF here for the long haul or could you see it being replaced in a couple of years that's that's open source and software in general for you right uh you know something something comes kind of comes along even better for that than that we will definitely look at it um I think that you know um the the team working on it at Red Hat is pretty committed to this and they really lobbied to have it named something other than Yum 4, which was kind of what I think in Fedora a lot of us were hoping that that's what it would go to.

And it really is like it's for the basic things of like installing software upgrades, those kind of things. It's really like drop-in compatible. kind of things, it's really like drop-in compatible. You don't have to think about it. But it behaves a little differently because it uses a different mathematical approach for dependency solving, which means that your results might not be exactly the same. And they were worried that that would be more confusing to people if they didn't also emphasize that there was a change with the name change. So they won out on that one.

So that's why we've got a new name. But that team is pretty committed to this being the future for that. And one of the things is that it is designed with sort of a modular architecture and a clean code base with a defined API and all these kind of modern software engineering ideas. That Yum kind of grew up over the years into what it was. I kind of grew up over the years into what it was. And so there's a lot of, you know, like you said, there's a lot of improvements in all of that, but there's also a lot of cruft,

and it's getting harder for the developers to manage. Well, that's actually pretty old, isn't it? Yeah, because if it comes from Yellow Dog Linux, which isn't even around anymore, and PowerPC hardware isn't even that prominent anymore. So, yeah, it has been. It's served a good purpose for a good long time, really. So that's pretty understandable.

One of the things I like about Fedora is that it's a great place to sort of experience one of the latest versions of GNOME. And GNOME 3.16 is no exception. It looks great under Fedora. And I've noticed the Fedora project is making really super minor tweaks to the default.

It's pretty much a default GNOME experience. But there's a couple things you guys change that nobody else does. One thing, elementary OS does it, but outside, but they're not using GNOME 3, is if you have a command in the terminal that completes and the terminal isn't active anymore, you've integrated it with the GNOME notification system to give you a notification that, hey, the command on your terminal that you're no longer watching has completed and you can return to your terminal now. Nobody else does that. And that's

not a big deal, but I thought it was interesting. There's a specific Fedora tweak you're making. There's also discussions about Fedora willing to make tweaks to make the GNOME terminal transparent when it's not a default in GNOME 3. And there's another small one, like you have an extension that overlays a opaque Fedora logo over the background. Small little tweaks to the GNome desktop matthew as you guys go forward do you see

fedora continuing on the workstation spin to or ring or whatever you want to call it to to um to make tweaks to gnome or is it pretty much going to say stock because i kind of like where you guys are going with some of this stuff yeah so i think we do really like keep following the upstream with a lot of our software is one of our our main ways we work in fedora so we're gonna keep to that as as much as we can but we also wanted to kind of feel like it had a unique fedora identity to it that's the the logo is part of that and we might do some other kind of visual things as we go forward that will be maybe more subtle but more um both more more subtle and like less you know there's an f in your face um but also just um different identity kind of theming

kind of things might happen um uh but then some of the other things like like the notifications are kind of come from our you know the target audience for the federal workstation is um we're trying to make it uh hit that people using Macs at the conference. Sort of a software developer using a Mac is kind of one of the users we have as a primary target for this. And so that was one of the things we got feedback about. That would be a little thing we could change that people would like. And so we're probably going to look at doing more and more of those things, especially as they hit. Somewhere on the wiki, there's a target audience for Fedora Workstation.

You can look at, and so I don't have it in front of me, but it's basically, we're kind of focusing the feedback on the software development target and all kinds of software developers from independent to big enterprise to students. I like it. Sort of a way to focus where we're going. Because when you try to make it be all things to all people, then somebody says, well, that's not me. And then you say, well, you're not all people. And it gets to be a whole like, what were we doing this for?

But you know, when I was using it, distinctly the impression I got was this is the beginning of a small tweak you're making for a target audience. And that was essentially the impression I got. So it wasn't too much. And the other thing is, as somebody who reviews a lot of distributions, I install a lot of GNOME desktops.

And having super, super small things that give it a feeling that this is something unique I'm getting by installing Fedora. Because what I don't like doing is installing Fedora and being like, OK, well, I've got what I had with Antigros four weeks ago. I like when I install Fedora, I like going, oh, I only got this because I installed Fedora. That's the only way I could have got this. Not that it's proprietary or it's exclusive, but it's just a nice touch that somebody went in and did that no other desktop environment, no other desktop distribution is doing. And so it makes it something kind of unique.

And it feels like extra thought went into it, even though it's something small. And so it makes it something kind of unique, and it feels like extra thought went into it, even though it's something small. And so you guys build on top of that. I enjoy it a lot. Yeah, and that's kind of also kind of a visual indicator of something we feel is actually going on throughout the whole stack, where you can see the GNOME desktop on the top, and it might look like another GNOME test up anywhere else. But we also, you know, even our desktop team kind of works, you know,

all the way down to the kernel level to try and make everything integrated together into one nice distribution. Yeah, you can feel it. You can feel it. We put in all this work into making this a whole integrated experience, and you can't just necessarily get that somewhere else because it won't be Fedora underneath. So before we run, I'm looking at the release schedule right here for Fedora 23. And if I, let's see, if everything goes as planned, and you know, sometimes that doesn't

happen, it looks like October 27th, ooh, right by Halloween, a Halloween edition of Fedora. I don't know if you remember the old Red Hat Linux days, but some of the first releases of Red Hat Linux were Mother's Day and Halloween. And so those were the actual, you know, their release names. They actually had some of their secret code name, but that was like what they were known as. Yeah. And so we're with Fedora kind of following that tradition and actually kind of want to get back to Mother's Day and Halloween releases as a regular cadence. That's awesome. That can help people follow that. I love it.

It's whimsical in a way, too. Well, and the next FAD day should be Fedora Activity Promotion. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, promotion. Feb. Well, Matthew, is there anything else? Feb. No comment on that one.

Feb. We do have a community-based Fedora marketing. I'm not touching that joke with a 10-foot pole. That's fine. Yeah, go ahead. We do have a community-based Fedora marketing team that anybody can join and take part in and help us promote what we're working on. So you're very welcome and invited to join us. Awfully punny with the touching and poles.

You are. You are good with that. So Fedora 23, anything else, Matthew, you want to touch on before we wrap up? I think one of the things, we're kind of working on an initiative to, you probably have seen CoreOS and Ubuntu Snappy and those kind of things.

And we've been talking about Fedora Rings for a while, kind of sort of seeing this as sort of a general sense in the way operating systems are going. But we're also kind of edging slowly into it. I think we're going to try and prototype some ideas around a modular OS that is kind of built up out of these different components. Because that seems like it's kind of the way of the future and what a lot of developers want. like it's kind of the way of the future and it's what a lot of like developers want and i think that it'll be a way that hopefully we can address some of this long-term support idea which we probably are really never going to do in fedora because that doesn't fit our charter and sort of the way it works it kind of um there's a general problem in operating systems of everybody wanting

it to move fast everybody wanting to move slow both at the same time but nobody agreeing on which part they want to be which. And so having the modular operating system lets us and our users make different decisions there. So we might be able to, for example, have some language API Python stack, which we say, okay, Fedora release is retiring,

but Django, for example, the web stack, it's going to be the same API for three releases here, or there'll be a version of the same API for three releases. So you know you can upgrade underneath it and keep your app running. Yeah, yes. That kind of thing. Oh, boy, good.

So there's more possibilities there. Good, good, good. Do you think we'll start to see that? Oh, okay. We'll see the start of that in Fedora 23, but it's not going to be anything like that. It's not going to be a release artifact, but if you're following the development,

you'll see some things along those lines. That sounds like a hint to keep our eyes peeled for further development there. Cool, Matthew. Yes, exactly. Let's chat again soon. Maybe you can give us an update on that initiative and all the other goodness that's going on over there. You're always welcome to join us. Now that you've got Mumble built for Fedora,

you have no excuse. Cool, yeah, yeah. And I have to figure out why it's not in the official repository. Somebody built it before and then got retired. You know, and we might get more Fedora users in here if it gets fixed. All right, Matthew, you are welcome to hang out if you'd like. We're going to move in and get an update from Ange on her transition to Linux, which I've been pretty excited to watch.

And we'll be reporting on it here in just a moment. But first, I want to tell you about our great friends over on Ting. That's right. Go to linux.ting.com. So that way you get to put Linux in your URL bar, in your Earl bar. In Uncle Earl's bar, you could put linux.ting.com. But more importantly, right now until the end of the month, $50 free service credit or $50 off your first device.

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I know. Isn't that great? Yes. It's $6 a month for the line. And then it's just my usage on top of that. Ting just takes my minutes, my messages, and my megabytes, and they add them all up. And so Angie and I, we used to have a plan of like, what was our, or I don't want to say the name of the company because they're a bunch of jerks, but-

Starts with an A. What was our monthly plan from them? $174. Oh, I thought it was less than that. $174 a month, and that's for two phones. Anyways- Yeah, it's ridiculous you can go to Ting

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And before the show, we came up with a couple of items that have been contention points for you so far. Yep. And number one, which is not going to be a surprise to anybody in the mumble room. I know you guys are not going to be surprised at all. Nobody listening is going to be surprised by this. But Angela decided to take it upon herself to install some updates. You know, I watched to make sure it went fine because she was a little nervous because there's like a crap ton of updates, so it's pretty understandable.

It always is. Every time I open the laptop, it has anywhere between 20 and 100 updates. But I kind of explained why, right? Yeah. It's all the programs on the computer. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. And you like getting all of them updated. Yes.

So one thing, though, is some of them come from the AUR, or the Arch User Repository. And I think one of the things you noticed, I noticed in the notes here, is sometimes these programs prompt you like three or four times for stuff. Yeah. So you have to babysit it. And they're not logical. Well, they might be logical questions, but for me, they make no sense. Do you want to edit the package build?

Yeah. Like, I don't know. Do you want to continue building? I do want the update. If I say no, will it not update? Like, you know, I don't know do you want to continue building i do want the update if i say no will it not update like you know i don't know yeah yeah and there was one where you're like no you say no to that and i'm like no i thought it was gonna be yes before you get crazy the only thing she's really got coming from the aur is google chrome so that way her netflix works and like

the evil pop gtk theme it's not like a bunch of stuff yeah but it does get updated and so and that's that's but do you think are you are you willing like is that like now that you know how to answer that is that a is that okay like if we did like a couple more times you feel like you'd be fine with it i think i would need to either write down the questions and the answers which i know is just yes or no but or like even just the the sequence yes no yes no no no yes yeah yeah um because like i said what was logical to me was not the correct answer when we went through it. Yeah.

And so for the most part, I've been doing the updates for her, but we decided to let her try it just to see how it goes so we can report back on the show. And usually the way we do it now is I update one of my machines first. Yeah. I do wait to do the updates because, yeah, he could warn me if there shouldn't be an update. Yeah. So that is definitely if you install things for the user from the AUR. Yeah. Now we do have some good news, though.

Okay. You have something that is improved from the Mac when switching to Linux. It's better under Linux. And it's something that Mac Office didn't do very well for you that now is no longer an issue when you're using Office under Linux. Yeah, and I can't figure out exactly why. But basically, it might just be because the Mac Office is like a really old version. I think it's 2011, maybe? They haven't updated it for like 200 years.

Yeah, yeah. It's so ridiculous. And they still charge like $2 million for it. These are all rough estimations. Well, so I've always had an issue with the formula bar on my Mac. Like where you go to edit in Excel? Yeah. If I click on a cell and I want to start a formula, normally you could just hit equals, right?

But if I already have a formula there and I just want to copy it so I can paste it into another cell, I cannot get the formula bar to display at the top, to display the formula. And I've messed around with where the toolbar is, but it will not, for lack of a better word, it will not snap into place. And there's just something really weird about it. The UI is super weird about that. I end up having to work around formulas all the time. And the other thing is that if I do hit equals and I want to

include cells around that cell in the formula, it makes a temporary pop-up and it covers up the cells around it. So I can't see them. The other thing I've noticed on your list is... Well, wait. Hold on.

I do not have that issue. That's what I was going to say. So now you've been using Office 365 and other than it's a little cramped in the web browser, you find it. Yeah, right. Yeah. Having it on a bigger monitor

is, yeah, it's kind of hard to work on just the laptop screen. There's so much UI on Office 365 that it like puts the actual spreadsheet like halfway down the page.

Yeah. Or more. It's like, yeah, half tools and toolbars and half. The ribbon UI is so freaking big that it takes up so much of the screen. But it's compatible with your spreadsheets. You didn't have to save them out. All the formatting, all the colors, you know, the color highlighting, the bolding.

How do you feel about the way you're launching it right now? So I gave you an Excel icon, but it's like browser and browser. Is that a? That doesn't bother me. No you're launching it right now. So I gave you an Excel icon, but it's like browser and browser. Is that a – That doesn't bother me. No? No. Good. No.

As long as – I mean, if it took a really long time, like remember how Mac Word or Mac Office was running really slow for me on my previous Mac? Yeah. Yeah. If it got like that, then it would be – but it's pretty seamless. So I never tried Caligra, Heaven's Revenge is asking, because we got to Office 365 and it's been working for you. And the reason why I decided I liked it is because it kind of gives us a fail safe if you decide to move back at some point. I had originally tried LibreOffice. Yeah, that didn't work.

And it partially didn't work because my spreadsheets were saved as.xlsx. So I don't want to go through and have to re-save everything if the office 365 works yeah and like heaven says i already did spend the money so i bought you a year subscription just to try it out who did i did you know it's only like nine dollars a month but yeah i know it's it's a full renew i don't know Let's cancel that card We have so many subscriptions We don't need to go into it That's just the way Welcome to the new world

No It's the cloud baby The new world of broke I know Geez Now we have to talk about a travesty Okay A absolute

I had to watch a train wreck In front of my eyes I stepped away I had to cuddle myself To get over this He's holding the notes I have no idea what he's talking about Remind me please in front of my eyes. I stepped away. I had to cuddle myself to get over this. He's holding the notes so I have no idea what he's talking about.

Remind me, please. Do you remember me shaking? No. What was it? Well, at one point, you said, Chris, I've got to have icons

on my desktop. Oh, yeah. And so I was like, all right, honey. Hit the meta key and type in tweak. Yep. And then you brought it up and went to the desktop section. Guess who knows about tweak now?

Yeah. No tweak has been found by Angela and she turned on desktop icons. Yep. I just prefer it. The thing is with my photos, I prefer as opposed to going through the directory, right? Is that the file directory? Yeah, your home folder or whatever. Yeah, as opposed to going through the directory, right? Is that the file directory? Yeah, your home folder or whatever. Yeah, as opposed to going through there.

I just want to throw it on my desktop because you know what? Browsers invented drag and drop for a reason. Wow. That's what I'm saying. So I use social media enough that I need the drag and drop. For social media? Yeah. Because you're dragging from your photo program to your desktop,

from your desktop to your browser? Yes. Okay. Yes. That's fine. That's a flow man that's a flow there's some things i'll give it to you it's a workflow yeah it is a workflow it is because you know i have 80 000 pictures yeah and well and one desktop yeah yeah well they're just there temporarily so that was one of the things that noah worked on is he made sure that... And by temporary, you mean once you get a new computer. He got me... No. No, shush. He got me Shotwell.

Yeah. Because it supports drag and drop without removing the picture from the library, which is what happened to me when I switched to Windows back in 2005 and was using Picasa. And that was, yeah. So. All right. Well, so that's Angela's update on her transition to Linux so far. And you're liking the Lenovo still too? Yeah.

Yeah, you like the hardware. Yep. What do you think, MumbleRoom? How are we doing so far? Any tips or advice or notes for Angela to take home? Oh, look at that. A room full of critics has no criticism so far. I thought for sure we'd get some crap for the Office 365 thing.

That's good. Nope. That's good. I tried getting it to work in Wine, and then I tried getting it to work in Play, and my attention span just stopped. Yeah, I know, right? And then you realize, geez, I am trying so hard to get Microsoft Office working. It starts to eat at you a little bit.

You know, I used Abbeyword back in 2001. Yeah, you used it way back in the day. Yeah. And Gnumeric. Yeah, I didn't remember that. Gnumeric is what you used for your spreadsheets back in the day. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

I've been pretty excited to see it happen, although part of me was hoping the whole thing would blow up and then we'd have a great Lenovo around to play with. But that's fine no actually i'm really glad now now i think our next step for you and this is the one i've been dreading is i want to tackle your dual monitor but the reason why i've been dreading it i know is like i think like we got to get like a series of adapters because lenovo is mini hdmi out and that's the only thing it does is like or micro hdmi it's like teensy-tinesy HDMI that's like for smartphones. That's the display out.

Wow. And then that has to go to like I don't know what your monitor is, DVI or DisplayPort. I can't remember. Yeah. I think it's DisplayPort. But I think that's the next step so that way you don't have to have such crunched up spreadsheets. Yeah. So maybe we'll report back on that soon. So my workflow, like I have just a couple spreadsheets that I maintain.

Bills and Nanny, like, mainly. And then everything else is in GDocs. So, like, are already online. So you do a lot of Google Docs, too, huh? I do, for a Juper Broadcaster. You've got a good mix of stuff, don't you? I do. Yeah, I am very diverse.

Diversified. You are diversificated, as they say. I think so. Well, I guess that makes the transition to different operating systems a little easier if it's all at least online. Mm-hmm. Something. All right. So Mark Shuttleworth was on stage.

I think, let me see, do I have a date on this? I think it was today. Or not. It was a while ago. I'm not sure. But I just found this great video of Mark talking about and just Ubuntu is running on so

many things today. Boy, wasn't Matthew just talking about that? About having a modular operating system and how there's all these kind of different demands for it. Well, Ubuntu Snappy just landed on something else that could be actually pretty cool. Especially for you sysadmins. I'll play the video.

It's kind of a funny video because Mark tries to get the guy to guess what it is. And the guy has the hardest time guessing. It's so obvious, too. So stay tuned for that. But first, I'll tell you about our buddies over at Linux Academy. And do you know what I love about Linux Academy? Everything. Well, that's true. That's true.

What I love about Linux Academy is they stole my great idea. They really did. I think if we were going to redo Jupyter Broadcasting today, this is the direction I would have gone. And I say that because I look at this and I go, oh, it kind of did what we did. You get guys together that are super passionate about Linux and open

source. They're real enthusiasts. The people that follow this stuff as a part of their passion. You work on it during your day job, then you go home and you work on it and you read about it during the weekends and you talk about it with your friends online and you talk about it with your friends online, and you argue about it in chat rooms. Hobby turned life. Yeah, that's these guys.

And they went out and they created the Linux Academy platform. They got developers and educators together to create something they're truly passionate about. And I love that because that sets them apart. That means the content they produce is genuine. It's from real people who are passionate about this stuff, just like the Jupyter Broadcasting Network. And it's updated.

And they follow the trends, too, because they're following this stuff constantly. Yes, very much. And they also get that Linux users have specific requirements that some of the average, generalized education sites that cover everything from kitchen sinks to Adobe After Effects don't care about. Like, for example, over at Linux Academy, you get seven plus Linux distributions to choose from. They automatically adjust the courseware to those distributions.

And I think this is super smart, is they throw in virtual machines that match the courseware with that. And those virtual machines match the distribution you chose for the courseware. And of course, that's the kind of thing Linux users care about. And of course, they're going to give you a remote SSH login. Of course, they're going to do that. They get you. They also have launched new courseware all the time, like new Red Hat certified courses that are great if you're going to go get your Red Hat certifications. They got Nuggets to help you deep dive on a single topic and get in and out in a couple of hours if you need. And anything really from two minutes to 60 minutes. That's great types of

content that really help you take it up to the next level. Instructor help is always available. They have really good AWS courses out there, some of the best in the business. In fact, they just were awarded for some of their AWS content. And I also think you've got to go, if you've been a member now for a while, you've got to at least get a little interest in their Founders Club. It's kind of like what we least get a little interest in their Founders Club. It's kind of like what we can offer for patrons. They have Founders Club where they get to vote on new content, get beta access to things, help troubleshoot anything that you find in the courseware through that Founders Club. It's a great way, if you're really passionate about Linux Academy, to help them take it up a little bit to the next level.

They're launching new courseware all the time. So do this. And we have a great discount if you do this. Go to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged you'll get our 33% discount when you go to linuxacademy.com slash unplugged try them out for a little while

try out some of the courseware take a few different courses the self-paced labs select your availability for how much coursework you have and they'll set up a courseware based around your availability it's really really good stuff

linuxacademy.com slash unplugged get our 33% discount and a big thank you to Linux Academy for sponsoring the Linux Unplugged program you ready to see this video?

yeah okay so maybe Popey might already have seen this you know Popey he's hooked in over there at the Canonical HQ

but this is Mark Shalderworth up on stage and he's introducing a new device a new category device that runs Ubuntu Snappy and he wants to see if this guy can figure it out

you're just going to tell us what you see. Okay? You ready? Alright, let's go. I can tell you what it is by the sound of it. I can tell what it is by the sound of it. Doesn't that sound like our closet? Come around. Look from this side. You have to look from every angle.

The guy's checking it out. He's getting up close. I'm gassy. You know, like a blade server. A blade server, he says. Like a blade server. Yes. With all of these port thingies in the front.

Yeah, with all these ports, really? So. Anybody want to help him out? A switch? A switch. What do you think? A switch. Okay. You think out? A switch? A switch. What do you think? You think it's a switch? Okay, look closer.

Okay, okay. Yes, it's a switch. With a lot of connection there. Yes. I mean, the port. It's a switch. So it's sort of a trick question. Not really.

But you did exactly the right thing. It's a switch. So it's sort of a trick question. Not really. But you did exactly the right thing. It's a switch, right? Okay, thank you very much. You're welcome. And he's exactly right. He's exactly right. It is a switch. And to prove it, here is the software running on that switch, right?

It's a switch with switch control software. Except this switch is actually running the new version of Ubuntu called Snappy Ubuntu Core. And it's not just running switch control software. It's also running this. It's running something from Mirakura, which is a software-defined networking solution. So there you go. Quite a package. You've got a switch that runs Ubuntu with all of the benefits and features thereof,

a full-fledged operating system with management GUIs and things like that. And also Mark Shuttleworth talked about all other kinds of devices. We've seen fridges. What do you think, Anne? You're going to have Linux on everything in the house one day, everything from your fridge to the hardware that runs the house. I think they could have used a quieter device. That was pretty annoying, wasn't it?

Yeah. It does. It does sound exactly like our closet, which I would also like to be replaced sometime soon. Yes, I know you would. Yes, thank you, honey. I know. Guys, any thoughts on Canonical's efforts

on the Internet of Things and these embedded devices? Do you think this is going to be the next big frontier for them? Hmm. Nothing. Hold on. Hold on. Let me get the right. Hold on. Let me get the... I got it here. Hold on. Hold on. Let me get the right. Hold on. Let me get the... I got it here. Hold on. I know what I need. There we go. Nobody has any comments on the story?

Alright, we'll move on then. Yeah, it's basically Noah's house. Exactly, Micah. Exactly. That's what Micah says in the chat room. He says basically it's Noah's house. We have PFSense and a Switch in our closet. Yeah. I think it's a fascinating move. We have PFSense and a Switch in our closet. Yeah. I think it's a fascinating move. I love it.

I love the idea of everything running on Ubuntu. If you could have a network, just picture it. Your servers, your desktops, your switches, your routers. It could be a disaster, but the idea seems fascinating to me. And so Canonical has a whole page up about all this over on their site. You can go find it. I have it linked in the show notes if you guys want to read more. They talk about critical infrastructure devices. They even talk about robots on the page

and appliances like door locks and whatnot and drones too. Yeah, the whole range of stuff. Go check it out. I would cry. Wimpy, you think it's useful for home automation and routers like Ubuntu Snappy on these Linksys type devices? Not necessarily. Well, it probably is suitable for home automation but i'm more thinking about um uh the sort of consumer grade wireless routers and uh broadband routers that once they

go out the door they get updates for a few months and then never again. And SnappyCore does provide a mechanism of patching the underlying OS without breaking the whole system. So it will be interesting to see if it gets adopted by the likes of TP-Link and organizations like that as the basis for their consumer products. Is TP-Link and Linksys' problem

been that the operating system is hard to update or has it just been that the vendor lacks the will to do it? Like it's just not their business priority. Yeah, that's true, but SnappyCore removes some of that complexity because the base operating system is taken care of for you by Canonical. Fair point.

Fair point. I would love to see that work out. I think that's a major problem we have with all these devices connected. And we've talked about this on last week's episode of TechSnap a little bit, is that we're pushing out all these devices that run operating systems, and we still haven't patched. We still haven't figured out the last round, like all these routers and all that things. I have so many vulnerabilities that we've talked a lot about in TechSnap.

I don't have much more. We have a thread. I think I'll keep it for the post show. Matthew, thanks for joining us on Unplugged today. It was good to have you here. I'll have a link to the Fedora project and your page, so folks can find that. Anywhere else you want to send people to?

Getfedora.org Is that what you are linking to? Ah, yes. No, I will link to that as well. Getfedora.org. Yes, of course. Thank you, sir. Sort of the download brochure page. If you're old school familiar with Fedora, it's probably not where you want to land. But for new users and just kind of like showing somebody what's available and what you need to start with, that's kind of the place to go.

And it's where you go to download it, of course. Yeah. Excellent. I love it. I will add that to our show notes. Episode 96 is in the can. If you have any comments, go to linuxactionshow.reddit.com. There will be a feedback thread in there.

And you can also join us next Tuesday at 2 p.m. Pacific. Go to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar to get that converted to your local time. And thanks for joining me. Yeah, no problem. Do you want to plug anything? Like Jupiter Signal? At Jupiter Signal on Twitter? Yes, but also Women's Tech Radio with Shannon tomorrow.

Shannon Morris. Yeah. Snubs will be on Women's Tech Radio tomorrow. It'll be out in the morning, yep. Check that out at jupiterbroadcasting.com. Yeah, that's a good one. All right, everybody. Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Linux Unplugged.

See you right back here next Tuesday. Thanks for having me. Thank you, everybody. All right, we're all done. We're all out. Good show. Thank you, guys. Thanks again, Matt.

That was good. Ah, Fujino all done. We're all out. Good show. Thank you, guys. Thanks again, Matt. That was good. Ah, Fujino missed it. Oh. And he was particularly interested in my advancement in Linux. Well, he'll have to get it on download, unfortunately. Hey, go to JB Titles. It's called Go Boat. And then I wanted to share this thread that was in the subreddit with you guys about distro hopping.

Let's go boat. Everybody go boat. JBTitles.com. Source forgery, that's not bad. Fedora's fabulous fapping pad. No. It's literative. I forgery, that's not bad. Fedora's fabulous fapping pad. No. It's literative, I'll give you that. I know. I can always count on the internet to pick up my...

Yes, you can. I do like having something with Fedora in there. Alright, so here is the distro hopping thread from Last Feedback. I wanted to put this in here because I feel like he created this account just to give us feedback, because this account's called Last Feedback. It says, In my humble small world, I notice a lot of people hop to various distros. Some consider it good, some consider it a fault of Linux

community, fragmentation, etc. Here's my thoughts on why people could be hopping distros. Number one. I think noobs are attracted to Linux, read articles, have opinionated friends, and give them initial thoughts. When this happens, their decisions and opinions are vastly influenced by media, FUD, etc. For a noob, there's no difference between Etsy and itRD,

Upstart, or SystemD. It just requires somebody telling them the sky is falling. I think number two, first and foremost, it's about being comfortable with the base installation, config files, package management, the desktop. Those who attain a certain level of power users capability don't need to hop distros.

Now, I also, I would branch off this and say one of the reasons I hop distros early on is I would find one distro had one set of tools I like to do one task. A different distro would have a different set of tools to do another task. He says not every distro is suitable for everyday users. Distros specialize on certain specific aspects of a workflow. That's kind of what I'm thinking. A given user coming from, say, Windows or Mac may not be accustomed to these workflows.

But I really like some of the points that were made in the subreddit thread following. He says, so Rob said, he says, I don't think distro hopping is limited to new users. I think it's a different kind of distro hopping for new users than for experienced users. Aha, I completely agree with that one. P4P33R says, we should try to funnel users to specific distros like Ubuntu or Mint for new users. Or Fedora. Or Fedora, that's right. Yeah, so it was a good threat.

Or try to figure out what that person is trying to achieve instead of like shoehorning them into Ubuntu or Mint strictly, saying, okay, what are you doing? What do you want to achieve? And see how you can try to understand their needs

and point them to the right desktop environment or distro for them instead. Sunsel, go ahead. You can talk. We're after the show. Hey, so in terms of distro hopping, so in my experience with distro hopping, I do it for terms of accessibility.

I'm a blind Linux user, so I look to see accessibility as a key factor in how distributions work. So Fedora is one of those accessibilities that I look at, and some other issues like Arch as well. Yeah, I like that. That makes a lot of sense. I'm going to up Fedora's bright future.

I like that one. Yeah, the accessibility thing could be a big driver. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I'm glad. I know there's been a lot of effort in GNOME for that, so I'm glad that's working for you. Yeah, I actually do some of the bug reporting and try to get some of that stuff improved.

Awesome. Ange learns to tweak. That's not bad. What do you think of that one? Ange learns to tweak. That's awesome. Source forgery is going at the top, but I like it. It's clever, but I feel like we should probably spend more time on fedora in the title because that's

kind of more it was sort of mentioned throughout the whole episode i'm liking fedora's bright future by odyssey westra i like that one yeah i bet yeah uh linux uh undressed what oh geez looks familiar evolving fedora trick-or-treat fedora 23 we should save that for when it comes out that's a good title for when it comes out. What did FAD stand for again? What's that? What did FAD stand for again? Fedora Activity Day.

Fedora Activity Program. Day. Promotion is what I suggested. Day. Day is what we're going with there. Day, day, day. It's one of the things that we spend out of our community budget for to bring people together. So you pay. It could be federal activity pay. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I see a focus.

Letter choices.