Lions Led By Donkeys Podcast - Episode 158 - Mathew Charles Lamb: The Spree Shooter Turned Racist War Hero

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

Mathew Charles Lamb was Canada's first spree shooter. He was found insane and locked up in a psych ward. He was then dosed with acid, deemed sane, and went off to fight and die in Rhodesia. Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/lionsledbydonkeys Sources: Will Toffan. Watching the Devil Dance https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ogRFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5820%2C4561932 https://parl.canadiana.ca/view/oop.debates_HOC3002_08/869?r=0&s=2 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=yEM_AAAAIBAJ&dq=matthew-charles-lamb&pg=2021%2C3005270 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oARFAAAAIBAJ&dq=mathew%20lamb&pg=5652%2C3419165 https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=qj9VAAAAIBAJ&dq=lamb%20canada%20rhodesia&pg=4006%2C2766738

Hey everybody, Joe here from the Lions Led by Donkeys podcast. If you enjoy what we do here on the show and you think it's worth your hard-earned money, you can support the show via Patreon. Just a $1 donation gets you access to bonus episodes, our Discord, and regular episodes before everybody else. If you donate at an elevated level, you get even more bonus content. A digital copy of my book, The Hooligans of Kandahar, and a sticker from our Teespring store. Our show will always be ad-free and is totally supporter-driven. We use that money to pay our bills, buy research materials that make this show possible, and support charities like the Kurdish Red Crescent, the Flint Water Fund, and the Halo Trust. Consider joining the

Legion of the Old Crow of my Donkeys podcast. I'm Joe and with me today is Nick. Yes. That's right. Yes. We have a fucking soundboard now. That's a fucking intro. Fucking best intro ever.

Now, obviously, we have a soundboard now. And also, I will attempt to do my uh to restrain myself from using it continuously uh though that will be harder today as i just pounded a fucking rockstar energy drink that tasted like chemistry there's a good thing i don't have it on my side yeah i know i was like oh man i have to make sure nick can't hit this whatever the fuck he was and 60 000 people died to be fair i kind of plan on using it that way but only if it's like if like the cia pops up i'm gonna hit the fucking soundboard i have to you got to or if like other things pop up that um i don't know just shit we've talked about a lot like i don't know suddenly

nazis arrive um or i don't know uh what are the two topics that piss people off more than anything else that we talk about the confederacy and rhodesia i feel like those are hip-hop horn worthy yeah um speaking of those things uh we have talked about things like war crimes uh psychological experiments uh crazy people doing weird things on acid um we've talked about uh really weird racist insane people ending up in fighting wars in Africa. And rarely do those things Voltron together into a giant fighting robot of human suffering, quite like a guy named Matthew Charles Lamb. Have you ever heard of Matthew Charles Lamb? Sounds really familiar.

Now, part of me wants to tell you immediately why the fuck i'm talking about matthew charles lamb but i honestly want you to be as surprised as i was when i discovered this guy's existence i don't understand why he sounds familiar maybe it's just the name that sounds familiar i don't know it's three three names all of them common i don't know yeah that's what i'm thinking that's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm honestly thinking. Have we officially gotten to the point that we've done so many episodes?

We're talking about the same thing over again. I don't think so. Absolutely not. Uh, when that time comes, uh, I don't know. It'll happen.

I feel like someone will tell us, um, uh, this actually came from a fan. So like, uh, if you're like, Oh, I've suggested things to these guys and they never do it. I swear to God, sometimes I fucking listen. Sometimes. And this is one of those times.

So, bear with me. I want you to be as surprised as I was. Because while reading through this guy's life, which required piecing through a whole no absolutely not which required reading through a whole bunch of really old copies of the Ontario Star newspaper oh right Canada this

one's yours it's not ours it was fucking it's so weird to me that this man existed and B was able to do all of the things that we're going to talk about uh because it seems like there should be laws in place that stop spree killers from traveling overseas um are you like are you so i guess the term spree killer

could also mean like mass shooter um i feel like those two terms are interchangeable. It's not like a serial killer. They have to do it all at once. There's definitions at play, I guess. So Matthew Charles Lamb was born January 5th, 1948 in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. Right across the bridge from me, actually. That's like 15 minutes away from Detroit. Yeah.

right across the bridge from me actually that's like 15 minutes away from Detroit it's like it's so close that well Ontario is like the one part of Canada that's south of the United States just because the way Michigan shaped and we used to like go over the bridge because the drinking age over there is like 19 so you turn

19 you go over the bridge get fucked up and it's still illegal but way more expensive so I don't really know what the point was yeah I don't think you ever had the chance to do that i did on leave yeah because i mean i enlisted i was 17 but i was home on leave uh right after i turned 19 and i got to experience that and i gotta say like after maybe the experience is missed on me right because like when you join the military drinking age is just kind of a vibe everybody just buys you beer doesn't matter pretty much yeah so like my like, oh, let's go

drink legally. I'm like, I've been kind of doing that for two years. Young Matt was born into a rough spot. His mother was a 15-year-old single mother. She, honestly, probably did the right thing by

abandoning him immediately. Oh. Now, she didn't know that her son would grow up to be... No. No, she like, I don't know, like rugby passed him off to a fucking relative. Now, like mothers don't know that their kids are going to grow up to be dicks. Otherwise, I'm sure I would have been abandoned too. But like... I feel like you had

the same face. No, we look a lot different. The same exact faces. No, when you were born. As I did now? Yeah, same size too. Yeah. Like a really tiny baby body, but a gigantic

head. Also already like with a bald spot. Oh, yeah. Fully grown beard, too. As is tradition amongst my people. Now, Matt was passed off to his grandma after kind of like hot couching through a couple relatives' houses. I don't know if you can consider it hot couching if it's an infant. Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

I was like, God damn. He's like, all right, well, I'm going to get up out of here. Listen, you got to start like, you know, you said you were going to be here a little while, but, you know, a couple of years have passed, you're still here. Wah! Look, I get it. You're a baby, but we need to get a fucking job, baby.

But eventually, grandma took him in. Grandma seems to be mostly okay. Also, he never knew who his dad was. And the best anybody could ever come up with was like he traveled to the United States where he was then murdered. Oh, wow. Like, I don't know if that's true or not. I know if I was his dad, I would also say that.

Solid. Did mom ever come to visit? No. Yeah, he's like from everything that I found, he has absolutely no memory of his mother. The only thing I could find is he was really close to his grandma.

But his step-grandfather was a huge bastard. Grandma had just got remarried to a guy named Christopher Collins. And they had been dating for a while and got married. And then grandma took this kid in. So the new husband, step-grandpa, which is a weird title to have. So you married the wrong Collins. Any other Collins is better, I suppose.

Yeah, like Phil Collins. All Collinses are bastards. Actually, that's not true. I know a guy named Collins, decidedly not a bastard. Sorry, bro. Tarzan soundtrack. Did he do the Tarzan soundtrack? Phil Collins did the Tarzan soundtrack?

Yeah. No way. Which Tarzan are we talking about? The original. soundtrack did he do this phil collins of the tarzan soundtrack yeah no way which way which tarzan are we talking about the original why do you think that it was so good i don't remember the original oh is it the one with brendan frazier no that one's good because it's bad i don't know did you like the movies yeah like the same yeah the same brendan frazier ended up with as tarzan at one point what yeah it was real bad terrible awful no I'm talking about Disney much better I mean

it's got to be better than a live-action Tarzan film the scars guard there's to be a lot of Brendan Fraser fans like how dare you that means you like the movie, The Mummy. I mean, I do like The Mummy.

Not the Scorpion King. That one's dog shit. That one's awful. God, CGI in, I think that was early 2000s, still looked like shit. I think they just cut the budget. But anyway, step grandpa Christopher really didn't get into this relationship expecting to

actually have to parent someone so he took out all shit yeah yeah and instead of grandma i thought we were past this point now admittedly grandma would also be pretty young in this scenario because mom was 15 oh yeah i forgot about that part i forgot about mom already to be honest to be fair so did he um it's true so like he didn't take it the right way and by that means he he became incredibly abusive um nobody's really been able to sure figure out why um other than like the he just didn't want to be the guy's dad so uh he started emotionally and physically abusing him, chasing him around the house, beating him and screaming insults. According to members of

the Lamb family, Collins never actually called the boy by his name other than in a newspaper interview after all of the things we're going to talk about today. Instead, he only addressed him as, quote, that little bastard.

Would your dad call you i don't remember uh i i assume the little one um because i'm the youngest uh but collins was an all-around dickhead uh when he he wasn't beating his adopted son, he was also beating his wife. Oh. Yeah, and she didn't go down without a fight. This was not like a one-side affair. They would beat the shit out of each other. They would just wreck the entire home. Well, see, they both enjoyed it. Ah, it wouldn't go that far.

So maybe love was involved with it. Like most healthy Canadian marriages, I wouldn't go that far. Maybe love was involved with it. Like most healthy Canadian marriages, they kissed each other with their fists. Like most houses in Canada, there's a boxing ring inside it. Those Canadians sure are contentious folk. Like a lot of kids that grew up in houses like that one,

he began to internalize this shit as he was seeing. When you grow up up an abusive household shocker you come to normalize physical violence towards people because you just assume that that's how people operate right right um and while a lot of people described matt as a smart kid uh he began to turn into a fucking asshole which surprise oh yeah i fucking believe it now at first this violence is directed at his own family. This included his grandma and step-grandpa. Though that was normally kept in line because he was much younger and they were able to beat the shit out of him. But it also included his much younger cousins.

When his cousins came over to visit, he would trap them in his room, force them into his closet, and lock them inside. What the fuck? Yeah, if they called out for help, he would threaten them with an ass beating eventually following through one time he beat one of his cousins so badly they required hospitalization and had a spinal injury jesus yeah probably stunted his ass yeah this is before that uh so i don't know what uh i don't know. Action movie type shit? Maybe kids back then had to be more creative with their violence. When I was growing up,

my brother would just watch a WWF like, I'm going to try that on Joe. Then I'd get pile-drived into a picnic table. I think that's what every single brother does. That's how I sprained my ankle. My brother said, Kurt Angle is cool and put me in an ankle lock. I'm not sure which one of those things is worse. The fact that you got your ankle fucked up by an ankle lock or your brother liked Kurt Angle is cool and put me in an ankle lock. I'm not sure which one of those things is worse, the fact

that you got your ankle fucked up by an ankle lock or your brother liked Kurt Angle. He liked Kurt Angle. One of these times, so his friend remembered, at the age of seven, Lamb forced a neighborhood kid to eat dog shit at knife point.

What? Yeah, this kid's a fucking psycho. At school, he ignored other kids, even when they try to become his friends and he generally just blew them all off at other times he would lash out into spells of seemingly random violence against his classmates punching or kicking people at random in the hallway as they walked by don't worry my grandparents do this i love you guys despite this the schools he attended later said he was weird but didn't pay and didn't pay a lot of attention in class but overall normal i assume this is just how this is what mental health was like back then they're like well uh

yeah little bat seems to punch everybody that walks by him but uh he's fine he's a feisty one yeah it was around this time that Lamb began carrying a knife everywhere he went. Oh, one of those types of kids. He was a knife kid. And he would eventually turn into a gun kid, which is bad. Turns out he shouldn't have guns. He would not hesitate on pulling out this knife to both show it off and threaten people. I guess to eat more dog shit, and also to rob them.

Look at this bad boy. Nighthawk 4000. Got this from Bud K. Now a teenager, classmate Greg Sweet said he was a fucking asshole. His school may have said that he was normal,

but they seem to be the only people who would ever hold that opinion. Besides his love of knives, he's also obsessed with guns and began to write letters to a guy named George Lincoln Rockwell. If you're not familiar with him, he's the leader of the American Nazi Party.

This guy's writing letters to him? Yeah. I assume with the do you like me circle yes or no. What age is this? He is in maybe freshman year of high school at this point. He's pretty young. What the fuck?

Also, according to Sweet Lamb, once attempted to join the local KKK while working as a golf caddy. Because he got really, really mad. Because he was hired to carry the gloves of a of a black man with red hair the the very concept of a black man with red hair infuriated him because he didn't think that was right uh that man was sammy davis jr by the way uh what so meeting sammy davis jr in real life made fucking matthew lamb a nazi just like so infuriated the concept that a black guy could Jr. in real life made fucking Matthew Lamb a Nazi. Just like so infuriated the concept that a black guy could have red hair.

I didn't remember Sammy Davis, Jr. having red hair. Maybe it was dyed at the time. I know a lot about Sammy Davis, Jr. other than the fact I know who he is. I just know he's a singer. And the fact that he was like apparently with a white woman which just set him the fuck off. Shockingly, he did not assault him.

I assumed he would. I don't have the right knife for this situation. I just had this whole bag full of metal clubs. I couldn't find why he wasn't able to join the KKK. I assume it was because he just didn't know anybody in it. Because there's certainly clansmen in Canada. Or at least clan-sympathetic people. Now, it was also at this age

that Lamb started dabbling in explosives. What the fuck? What kind of explosives do you have in your area? Is it easily obtainable? I mean, you can make explosives out of I don't know, shit you buy at the hardware store. I'm not going to go into it because it would definitely get us banned

from the internet. I feel like when you were younger, you looked at the anarchist cookbook. Who didn't? I mean, of course I fucking did. You can make shit out of anything you find, especially hardware stores back then. Jesus Christ. There's certain kinds of fertilizer you can use which are now you just can't buy because of you know you can easily make explosives out of them that you could just buy at the fucking

corner store in the 70s 60s and 70s which is when this is taking place um now he wasn't very good at dabbling with explosives as most you most explosive dabblers eventually find out, those things explode sometimes when you don't want them to. Right. And this happened while he was fucking with one of his bombs, peppering his leg and chest with shrapnel, though somehow not badly wounding him. He was barely injured,

other than the fact that he had a whole bunch of really small scars up and down his legs. He also began to collect firearms, something that was shockingly easy at the time. Also because his step-grandfather owned a bunch and just kept them laying around unsecured. I know this is like the 50s and 60s and 70s or whatever, but you already know your kid's a fucking lunatic.

Lock the shit up. Well, when another lunatic sees another lunatic, they think they're normal. Fair enough. I see you're also an abusive dickhead. I'm going to leave guns on the table. This is the desk gun. This is the kitchen gun.

I feel like it was probably one of those houses because he had shotguns and handguns. Oh, I totally... I believe it. But he also began stockpiling shit. He realized that if he just stole a whole bunch of bullets from his step-grandparents or step-grandfather, he wouldn't try to find them or anything.

Like, hey, you little shit, where'd my bullets go? He would just go buy more. So he would watch him like, ah, guess I'm out of bullets. I'll go buy... Like, it's milk. I'm surprised he doesn't do inventory on it i don't know collins where the fuck are they going do you remember shooting recently no oh they're probably still

in your house so yeah he would just keep going and buying them um uh and like a totally normal normal person uh matt did something that is like a telltale sign of a fucking psycho this began writing the names of people that he hated on the bullets. Most of these were local cops. Jesus. He didn't even know them. He just like knew like it's kind of like a small town atmosphere. So like he knew them, but he wasn't known to the cops yet.

That would change. He thought the cops are harassing him and stalking him everywhere he went um and like some of the cops may have known about him because he kind of got a reputation for being not all there and all you know threatening people with knives which is apparently not against the law in Ontario at the time because he was never arrested for it. What is it, like one of those little slaps on the wrist, like frowned upon? Kids will be kids.

Yeah, I don't know. He wasn't picked up until he started doing some pretty serious shit. I feel like that's a thing in Michigan too. Not so much. When I was a kid, I certainly got away with more than I would now. And obviously, the color of my skin certainly helped with that. But yeah, it's 100% that way with Lam as well. If Lam was a member of the First Nations or a black person, he's not getting away with this stuff.

Because, you know, time eternal racism and stuff but uh cops were keeping a kind of an eye on him especially after the you know the bomb went off uh but apparently not a great eye because by the time he was around 15 he would occasionally walk around in a residential area near his house in the middle of the night and fire shotgun rounds at people's houses that he didn't like. What the fuck? Yes. And like, it was at random, but also people that didn't like Lam and got in fights with them at school would find like their windows getting shot out in the middle of the night. So people like knew it was him.

Like, oh, there goes Madigan firing off his shotgun through residential areas. And the copster's like, hmm. He never got arrested for it. This guy's having fucking shootouts in front of his house. residential areas. And the cops are just like, hmm. He never got arrested for it. This guy's having fucking shootouts in front of his house. By himself. Yeah. How is this okay to him? I don't know. But he finally

stepped out of line. He did something that would finally get him hooked up. On February 10th, 1964, when he was the ripe old age of 16, Lamb confronted a cop outside the Windsor Arena. In broad daylight, in front of a crowd of people,

he just... He challenged him. To a duel. Join me! He just started swinging on the cop, flailing his tiny little fists at his face. Now,

it's noted in the newspaper article from the Ontario Star that this cop was several times larger than Lamb. And the cop easily smashed the little fucker, finding a knife and brass knuckles on him before arresting him. Or the knife,

which, you know, we might not like cops on this podcast, but we're not pro-stabbing them. I'm glad that didn't happen. You're going for the swinging. You got brass knuckles in your pocket. I think this was a last-minute decision, clearly. Probably.

He seems very impulsive, and he's clearly not right in the head. Fuck this guy. Yeah, that guy fucking looked at me wrong. And, like, the cop was, I think he said he was doing something else and he just started getting blasted out of nowhere. And like,

he wasn't alone. There was another cop like right next to him. So no normal brain is going to be like, I can win this. Oh, they got hockey later tonight in the arena. What the fuck? He tried to pull the cop's jersey over his head.

No reason was ever given for this. He said cops are harassing him, but he never said that cop in particular was. He just started swinging. I think this kid's insane. You're certainly onto something. I'll give you that much. Spoiler alert on how this ends. Now, this is the 1960s,

and he was still a minor. So he was given a two-year suspended sentence after six months at the Youth Offenders Unit near London, Ontario. This was enough to get him kicked out of his home and sent to live with his uncle in East Windsor, which was not a great idea because his uncle, turns out,

was a worse father than his step-grandfather, who was physically abusing him. So the bar was already very low. Oh, yeah. His uncle demanded that he go back to school, but he dropped out and decided that he would look for a job instead. He bounced around working various shitty odd jobs

but couldn't keep them. Now, if this isn't the 2020s, I assume this is where he starts a podcast. But unfortunately for him, it's the 60s. He's fucking, he'd be in there. Cops have a fucking radio in my head. I could hear him all the time. I can hear the music in my teeth.

Now, if he lived in the United States, he could probably just look forward to getting drafted, getting his legs blown off in Vietnam at this point. But unfortunately, he's in camp. Yeah. On December 24th, 1964, he broke into the front window of the Lakeview Marine and Equipment Store.

And because this is the 60s, they had guns. Like, you know, even in America back then, you'd go to a hardware store and buy a gun. Canada was still kind of like that. So he stole a whole bunch of handguns and shotguns and ammo Police in the store's owner Who lived upstairs

Quickly responded to the break-in So Lam used one of his stolen handguns To shoot at them He missed and the cops fired back At this point Lam made the one I don't know Well adjusted decision that he made so far

I should probably surrender so he did he did enough fucking around and fighting out for one day now walking out with his hands up he was brought into custody but unfortunately for Lamb this time he was 17 and at the time

of his trial that meant he could be tried as an adult now the judge deemed Lamb beyond rehabilitation for this. And again, I'm not sure if this is because it's the 1960s or because that's Canada. And Canada had some super lax sentencing for white kids who shoot at cops at the time. But he's only given two years. Oh. For a gunfight.

Oh, for a gunfight. You get more than that for, I don't know, having any quantity of drugs outside of the few states that have legalized weed here in the United States. Two years. Two years for exchanging gunfire with cops. Jesus. Like, I'm not pro prison here, but like, God damn, this is low. And, you know, you'll figure out why. I don't want to go into why this is obviously a miscarriage of justice, but we'll get there.

He was shipped off to the maximum security Kingston penitentiary, and they began to do a psyche val on him. Somehow, the first psyche val he had ever gotten, despite everything we've just talked about. I know my bar is low, every once I'm like fuck man really I know like at the time psychiatric care was like I don't know put some electrodes in his butthole and shock him like you know medicine has time

yeah stick this in his brain and swivel it around a bit you know like bar is low you've managed to fail that. But doctors noted he had a very hard time controlling his behavior and was attracted to guns. No shit. You think they showed up those little, like, ink blots?

What do you see here? Gun. What's this next one? Gun. Interesting. Interesting. How about this one? Gun. Oh. Interesting. How about this one? Gun. Oh, butterfly.

Holding a gun. Alright. The doctor also said that he was very close to a mental breakdown, and something should be done to make sure that he didn't experience that breakdown. You want to guess what they did? Gave him a knife.

Honestly, not surprised if they would have done that, but they did something that was incredibly damaging, and that is put him in solitary confinement. Oh. You need to be by yourself. Which, like, I'm not saying that maybe he shouldn't have been away from other people for a little bit,

assuming there was some, you know, palliative therapy going on, but they just locked him in a room by himself for a long, long time. Well, you're getting a little bit, assuming there was some, you know, palliative therapy going on, but they just locked him in a room by himself for a long, long time. Whoa, you're getting a little rowdy. Right on cue that night, Lamb shoved a broomstick up his own ass. Oh, God. When discovered

by guards, he got up and ran away from them, broomstick still sticking out of his ass. See, three legs. More sprinting power. He had to be tackled and medically sedated so they could take it out without hurting him. Shockingly,

the doctor said that lamb happened to be getting worse. I don't know what gave him that idea. Why is there a broomstick in solitary confinement? I don't know. I don't think they're there a broomstick in solitary confinement i don't know i don't think they're very good at their jobs hey can you clean that cell for us all right thank you just leave this thing that could be a weapon on the floor of the cell that we're gonna put the

crazy guy in uh he so he could hurt himself with it now uh he said that lamb was experiencing quote elaborate fantasies involving robberies fights and, and shootings. Again, shocker. I don't imagine that this guy goes by the name Dr. Fucking Obvious, but come on now. Come on. That's like South Park, the fucking hero, Captain Obvious. He's like,

well, you should have put this there and this there. All right, well, I'm done. And then he doesn't save anybody. The doctor swoops in. If you take the broom out of the mental health ward, people can't hurt themselves with it. And he just leaves the broom there in the corner. Yeah.

Now, during his time in prison, Lam would attempt to kill himself pretty much every month and also fight the guards as such regularity they just assumed it was going to happen. He also shoved another broom up his ass. Jesus.

They should stop leaving broomsticks around him. Stop leaving broomsticks around him! He then squatted and then began to sweep the floor using the broomstick that was in his ass. Scooting around and laughing as the guards attempted to chase him. Did you decide to put that in the scrims?

Uh, yes. Okay. I got something for you. Broomsticks! Broomsticks! When he was asked why he did this because like yeah you're gonna ask that question he was asked he simply responded that he really didn't like the guard that was on duty and he wanted to annoy him which i have fuck man i've hated a lot of people in my life i don't know if i've ever hated anybody

that much i don't know if i ever sat around in school and you're like, you know what? I need to sleep this floor with my ass. You know what would really piss off the teacher right now? If I shoved a broomstick up my ass and scooted it around a little bit. In all honesty, that probably would. That would certainly make a lot of people unhappy all around you in your

entire life. Including yourself. I know I would be very unhappy with it. But you're committed at that point. So you got no choice. I mean, if you've committed to a bit so hard, you're fucking yourself with a broom. I hope it's not the wood one because, you know, splinters. It's the

60s. It's got to be wood. I'd go with like a carbon fiber. I don't know if he was testing the quality of the material. That's not hard, Birchch I kind of like cedar nice elm broom I don't think there's a lot of like forethought in between point

A and B so yeah he was released on April 18th 1966 with the doctor warning that if he was released, he would commit another, probably worse crime that would land him right back in prison. And of course, that's exactly what happened.

Try me. On 17 days later, 17 days after he was released from prison, he found a shotgun in his uncle's house. Again, way to drop the ball there members of the fucking greater lamb family you're just fucking this kid was just real gun just leaving guns a little yeah we just realized you get released from prison and you're probably not all there but uh you know it's fine this shotgun new bad boy this shotgun has a safety on it um bad areas

after picking up the shotgun he went out into town and around 10 p.m he hit behind a tree and waited six people eventually approached approached him and lamb jumped out from behind the tree pointing the gun at them and screaming stop put your hands up and then he shot them he hit edith chukowski in the chest andrew woolock in the stomach and winged kenneth chukowski uh in i believe this side he took off running across the street firing into random houses wounding someone named grace dunlop after he calmly walked away knocked on a random door and held an old lady at gunpoint threatening to kill her the only reason he didn't is he shoot is he realized that she was not alone and had to

run away because he only had one bullet left. And then he chucked the shotgun into a random backyard and went to sleep. He became the first spree killer in Canadian history. Fuck. Yep. Edith Chakowsky died of her wounds the next day and

Wollock a few weeks after that. Lamb was arrested the day after the shooting after cops found the weapon he used, traced it back to his uncle, and then found, oh yeah, Matt lives there. Lamb was charged with one count of capital murder, eventually upgraded to two, and at the time, under Canadian

law, he faced a mandatory death sentence. Oh, okay, I thought they were going to go with like, alright, you got to serve five years this time. This time we'll give you three. It was kind of understood at the time that nobody would be executed in Canada. Death sentences were

passed down, but never actually implemented. Kind of like California today. But if you're sentenced to death, you can't get out. Because your sentence is to die uh so it's it's a life without parole sentence so a good little life sentence gotcha yeah uh while being led to court he attempted to escape which didn't go great uh and he was put in for another psyche val which he failed uh with flying colors it's widely believed he kind of lied uh saying

things like he like he was saying that he didn't remember the shooting, or even his parents or grandparents, something he would later go on to say he totally did remember. Now, I'm not arguing that something was clearly not right with Matthew Charles Lamb, but I do believe he hammed it up a bit for the psychiatrist

because he knew he was facing a death sentence too uh he was eventually deemed unfit to stand trial and committed to a mental hospital for 30 days uh so for for people who are unaware if say you're you're deemed unfit to stand trial that doesn't mean that you just like well guess we can't try you and then

you send you get sent home uh you get sent to a hospital where you're treated and then eventually at any point you are deemed fit to stand trial. Then you go back to court. If you're never deemed not fit to stand trial, you just stay in the fucking hospital.

Right? Right. So after 30 days, or he was evaluated I think twice, so about 60 to 90 days. The doctors then said that he could understand the charges that he was facing.

He's good to go. We're missing broomsticks, though. We have a single broom left in this hospital. Very clean, though. Very well swept. His defense, to the surprise of nobody, was that he was crazy. Five different doctors from the hospital that he was staying in all agreed to testify to the fact that he was, in fact, insane.

But his lawyer was worried that if they called Lamb to the stand, he would appear sane. Thus tanking his own defense by not being crazy. So he simply didn't. his own defense by not being crazy. So he simply didn't. The only doctor the prosecution put forward never even examined Liam, something that was pointed out pretty quickly and made them look really bad at their job. Now the defense is pretty worried that the jury would still find him guilty

or at least not crazy enough to not find him culpable for his own crimes. So they reminded him that finding him guilty or not guilty because of insanity did not mean he was free instead it meant that he would stay in the hospital probably forever it just meant that he would go to a psych hospital rather than a prison and he would not be put to death I imagine psych hospitals back

then sucked they suck now yeah so yeah probably a hundred times worse uh or like even if the doc like the the only way he could ever get released from the hospital was that if the doctors concluded through some miracle that he was no longer a threat to anyone and that did not happen often if at all so they're like look guys come on he's just gonna go to a hospital prison instead of a prison prison there's no difference here the defense worked and he was found not guilty

by reason of insanity and sent off to oak ridge maximum security mental hospital uh now because we're doing this episode about him i think you already know that he does not stay in this hospital forever no um now he fell under the care of elliot barker a man i have to say probably as crazy as lamb um now barker believed in radical experimental treatment uh now this of course goes with standard treatments of the day which is mostly lateral convulsive therapy, which is, you know, getting the piss shocked out of your brain. One of the things that Barker invented for treatment was the total encounter capsule. Now, that sounds weird. I assure you it's weirder than it sounds. Sounds like a Bowflex ad.

Sounds like a Bowflex ad. So this is a group isolation exercise where multiple people would be locked into an isolation room. This group was only made up of the most extreme cases of schizophrenia, people clinically, the most critical cases. So people like Lam who killed a whole bunch of people. Right. Which certainly sounds like the most critical cases so people like you know lamb who killed a bunch of people right uh which certainly

sounds like the type of people i wouldn't want to lock into a room together uh but all right everybody we're gonna do acid yes they do that oh fuck i was about to say that's gonna make it i feel like that way you get worse uh

fucking uh yep i somehow i still get to say this though still worse than you can imagine we'll get there though okay the tes was windowless soundproof and it was about eight feet wide by 10 feet long and was painted all green with the exception of a one-way mirror and the cameras. Don't ask me why it was green. I don't know. It's like a terrible color to pick. Between two and seven people would be locked in there for hours or days or weeks at a time. That's a big jump.

Two people in one room, in my opinion, too many already. Sometimes up to seven. Yeah, it's even worse. Now, most of these little experiments would go for 11 days. Now, if you're thinking, but they have to be let out to use the bathroom or to eat or to drink. Don't worry, I got that covered. There's a bucket. Also, they did have to eat.

So they put little notches in the door where they could feed straws through and people could drink blended food. So you like live in a hamster enclosure. And now for some reason, Barker thought they wouldn't be able to find them true selves if they had their clothes on. So everybody was also naked. Who hired this guy? They're all on a fuck everybody was also naked and hired this guy they're all on a fuckload of acid who hired this guy canada this is a state institution what he lied on his resume he actually escaped from the same institution yeah he just walked right outside picked up a fucking lab coat and he's like, I'd like to apply.

He's like, again, are they already naked in the box? Yes, sir. Let's feed them like hamsters. Sir, we found your resume. It's written on a napkin. Give them acid. Right away, sir. So while they're all now tripping balls

Butt naked Eating out of straws and shit For days right You know what can make this whole situation worse If nobody could sleep Because he kept the lights on the whole fucking time Did he play fucking metal music too Surprise you're in Gitmo

Yeah Canadian Gitmo Uh Git A surprise you're in gitmo yeah canadian gitmo uh get a uh now in his defense that was awful add that to the soundboard barker insists that everybody who did this was doing it voluntarily. But remember, all of these guys were stuck in this place until they were deemed healthy by doctors. So like the idea of turning down treatment

at the expense of remaining incarcerated meant that you weren't really volunteering. Like you were compelled to volunteer yourself. You were voluntold, effectively. Right? Right, right, effectively. Right? And wouldn't you know it, Lamb did a fuckload of these experiments.

This place is great. Barker said that Lamb does very, very well. He's not aggressive during this whole thing, I assume because of all of the acid. Maybe he enjoyed it. The insanity behind all of it, I think he's like,

this is normal. This is the right kind of crazy for me. This is house life. He was considered a star pupil of Barker's program. So much so, he was taken to the local police academy to give speeches.

Huh? Yeah. Lamb was? Yep. You know, it's weird because everybody knows who this guy is.

He's the first spree killer in Canada. Everybody, it would be like if Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris survived Columbine and then went to go speak

at the local police academy. So yeah, he would do speaking tours. He was the example that rehabilitation was possible if you just lock naked people into a room and melt their brain you think he was on the stage like naked he's just natural state now like i know people are are listening probably thinking that like we're poo-pooing hallucinogens uh in therapy which we are not um there's a lot of evidence that things like ecstasy and acid

and even mushrooms and stuff really fucking help people with PTSD and various other kinds of illnesses. However, if you go back to our other episode regarding acid experiments,

you should know that the level of acid that these guys are doing is fucking insane. Like, it is straight from the laboratory, made by actual doctors, and will blow your motherfucking shit. Like, this is not microdosing, guys. He's getting his shit melted

with insane amounts of acid. Fucking tasting words like if this would absolutely be considered abusive if someone attempted to do this today uh barker could and probably should be in prison um now after five years in this facility uh it was lamb's case was sent to a five man review board and they recommended that he be released hmm now in order for this I was joking on the five year thing surprise you were right

again it's like you're just lathe of heathering things into resistance like I bet this guy gets out of prison in five years somewhere a monkey paw just curls inward if that's the case I bet I get paid to get out right now This guy gets out of prison in five years. Somewhere a monkey paw just curls inward. If that's the case, I bet I get paid to get out right now. I bet I'm a civilian.

I'm on duty. Just sweeping. Fuck. God damn it. I was just podcasting. Now, in order for this recommendation had to be approved. This was not the final authority. And it was sent to the Ontario Executive Council, which is, from my understanding, the highest level of governance in the Providence. So, yeah, it's up there.

And they agreed. All right, guys, that's our noble work for the day. Let's all go back to doing coke um the only stipulation of this release that he would have to spend one year of supervised release living with dr barker and his family so i say baker let's go dr barker my bad um so his family owned a 200 acre farm uh and you know he had workers and stuff so he's like i'll give you a job on this farm you can earn your living do you like fucking leave him outside yeah no it's really weird he didn't give him a job mind you he was court ordered to stay with him so he was kind of an indentured servant at this point. Oh. Yeah. He was paid, so I guess there's that.

Now, he became one of the best workers on the farm, probably happy to be outside and not in a mental institution. I don't mind sweeping your porch, sir. I'll pick weeds all day. Just stop locking me in a box with a whole bunch of other naked people. I wonder if all the workers are naked. Something Barker just respects is that all of my farm workers must be naked in an acid at all times.

Now, um, cool looking long. The government said that he had to be observed during this time. And it seems like he actually really wasn't because Barker was still going to jobs or going like going to his daily job at the mental institution, seeing other patients and just leaving the farm. Somehow still working there. Yeah.

Now, he worked alone or with other laborers, and he didn't go anywhere else. He seems like he was kind of confined to the farm. He could go off the farm with Barker, but that was pretty much it. But when the Barker family would travel, they would use

him as a babysitter oh that's not right yeah that doesn't seem like it's problematic or anything we should leave this very clearly healthy man around our children unsupervised

do we have guns in the farm? probably we have to pay the babysitter why would we do that? we got this guy yeah we got this guy who's just drooling as his brain pools in the farm? Probably. We have to pay the babysitter. Why would we do that? We got this guy. We got this guy who's just drooling as his brain pools in the back of his head from acid. Now, after around a year, Lamb told Barker that in order for him

to truly come to terms with his diagnosis as a psychopath, because he was clinically diagnosed as being a psychopath, he felt the need that he needed to travel the world and do something truly purposeful with his life. Now, since you're listening to a

podcast about military history, you can probably assume what that purposeful job was. I honestly was wondering when this would play into effect. The military. Nice. Now, this is something that Barker, being the good doctor that he is,

totally supported. Yeah, he's tripping balls, too. Like, oh, yeah, good, good, good. Now, Barker said, quote, he seemed like he needed the spree decor of an army organization. Because if there is, you can't put the spree without spree killer. an army organization. Because if there is, you can't put the spree without spree killer. Am I right?

This is when you need the soundboard. I did not have that written down. I just thought of that. Truly a comedic mastermind. Because if there's one thing that you should do is put a spree killer obsessed with guns and on heavy psych medications uh is put them in the military and then give them more weapons and more training um now despite the fact he was technically found not guilty remember because he's found not guilty by a reason of insanity there's no way he's ever going to be able to lift uh unless in the can military. That shit is still on your record.

You know, because Canada has standards. Now granted, they did once have a very high-ranking pilot who was a serial killer. What? Different story for a different time. Does that go with our podcast? Can we? Oh yeah.

Eventually. It'll happen. Canada, we're coming for you baby all right these hands are rated e for a a yeah now uh barker claimed that at the time land what

lamb was quote saner than most people i think i'll literally everyone else be the judge of that. I don't know. That's a real broad way to put it. Yeah. So in October 1973, Lamb pooled all of

his resources together for a plane ticket. Now he found his calling as allied Arab states invaded Israel, starting the Yom Kippur War. Lamb decided that he was going to fly to Israel and join the Israeli Defense Forces. Now, Lamb was not Jewish,

nor had any connection to the Jewish community or Israel. Also, remember, he once tried to join both the American Nazi Party and the KKK. Maybe he doesn't know that they're Jewish. He might not. I don't know. I feel like the flag gives it away. You think so?

Yeah, maybe a little. But those things didn't slow him down. He flew to Israel and hitchhiked out to the front lines, which is something you can do. He met up with regular Israeli soldiers. He was shocked to find that, unlike him, they were not obsessed with guns and murder, and instead they just wanted to go home and wish the war would be over. he met up with regular Israeli soldiers. He was shocked to find that, unlike him, they were not obsessed with guns and murder,

and instead they just wanted to go home and wish the war would be over. This is apparently very disappointing to Lamb. He's like, fuck! But that did not stop him from trying to enlist. Now, as the IDF was clearly... That's a cool pentagram you have on your flag. I do like stars, sir. I don't know if you can call it...

It's not a pentagram. No, but he doesn't know that. I'm also a fan of heavy metal. Now, I feel like someone putting a pentagram on an Israeli flag is probably something that is common amongst people who use too many parentheses around certain words. Now, as the IDF was clearly in a bit of a

crisis, they were enlisting pretty much any capable foreigner. A lot of soldiers from abroad was like, yeah, fuck it. I'll fight. A lot of them were probably racists because they got to shoot Arabs. But they did have to have you know background checks and things they weren't just being like sure whatever john smith

welcome to the idf right they're gonna do their due diligence um and that's actually something they still do today to limited extents like if uh you can enlist in the IDF and like IDF support units and shit as a foreigner, not an Israeli citizen and things like that. Though it's weird, kind of problematic. But the IDF asked simple questions such as his background. And Lamb was very open and honest with them regarding the fact that, you know, he had murdered two people And spent five years in a mental institution. Where he mainlined acid. This it turns out. Is a bit of a deal breaker for IDF recruitment. And he was not allowed to join.

How did they see it? And Canada was just like well. Good guy. Well about that. He doesn't end up enlisting in Canada either. Now Lam became very depressed. And he decided he would buy a ticket to Australia and just see the world for a bit.

But, he made a small layover in Zimbabwe, then known as Rhodesia! And fucking enlisted. Rhodesia had no problem with it. You're a stand up guy

Now Yeah now for people who are unaware Or missed their episode about Rhodesia And why I'm so excited to bring it up again Is because the biggest whining motherfuckers In our comment section Have been shitty Rhodesia people Who are not even around to see this stupid racist

Fiefdom die Now here's the yada yada yada version Of the second Shitty Rhodesia people who are not even around to see this stupid racist fiefdom die. Now, here's the yada, yada, yada version of the second Chemerenga or the Bush War. Rhodesia was a racist, unrecognized apartheid state trapped in a multi-front war against its own black citizens who were fighting for their own liberation. Many were communists. Some weren't. But Rhodesia was quickly losing that war because they suck. And everything you've heard about them being amazing soldiers or whatever is mostly based on racist propaganda. They continue to spread after running from their fiefdom and settling in the UK, South Africa or Australia or whatever other ever other Commonwealth backwater they ended up in. Also, I know people that like Rhodesia.

Yeah. Well, there's a reason for that. Another person helped spread this propaganda is a guy named David Grossman. Have you ever heard of the name David Grossman? No. So he's a writer of the book On Killing and calls the science that he created

about people killing other people, killology. He trains cops. Huh? Yeah. He called Rhodesians the ultimate counterinsurgency soldiers, which is really weird because they fucking lost and Rhodesia doesn't exist anymore.

Right. This dude's doing that now? Oh, he's, yes. He wrote multiple books about it. Um, On Killing is unfortunately on a lot of police academies, uh, reading lists, as well as militaries, including our own. You probably know Grossman better as a guy who came up with that whole sheepdog wolf situation.

Oh, man. Yep. He's given hundreds of seminars to cops and goes around the US about telling people about how killing is, quote, better than sex. You're protecting the herd. This is all despite the fact that Grossman never once killed another human being or saw combat during his time in the military.

I don't know why I went off on that tangent, otherwise it's hardly surprising that a guy who teaches cops how to murder people across the U.S. really likes Rhodesians too. Lamb landed in the middle of this in October 1974 1974 just before things started to go really bad for the rhodesians well they weren't great mind you but they were circling the drain uh conscription had already been jacked up to all white men between the ages of 38 and 50 and no white men uh at the age 17 or up were allowed to leave the country because draft dodging and all that. The only Rhodesians I respect are ones that dodge the draft.

And even then, you better at least be 16 or between the ages of 15 and 17 because anything older than that, nothing. Now, Lamb may have been crazy, but he was in shape from farm work. And that was all the Rhodesians

really cared about. And he was allowed to enlist without any questions. I am sure there was some minor question regarding criminal history or psychological diagnoses. Just answer no. They don't do background checks. Now, this is explained away by another Rhodesian soldier, a guy named Chris Cox. He said that the LRI or the Rhodesian Light Infantry was kind of like the French Foreign Legion. They don't ask many questions. They just let

people join if they're able. Now, is this something of an urban legend about the Legion? And it may have been true back in the day, i.e. 100 years ago, and it's certainly not true today. The Legion rejects a ton of people, including past criminal records, and more importantly, they give psyche

vows to all new recruits before they're selected. There is no fucking world where they would have enlisted a spree shooter who just spent five years in a maximum security mental facility. A long time ago, we did an interview with a French foreign Legion veteran from Ireland,

and they almost didn't let him enlist because when he enlisted in the Legion, the troubles was going on and they were afraid that an Irishman enlisting in the Legion would mean that he might go, he might have sympathies to the IRA. So if they're going, they might reject a,

someone from the Republic of Ireland, not Northern Ireland, simply because the fact he's Irish, I have a feeling they'd reject lamb too. Uh, but those highly touted Rhodesians enlisted him immediately. Now, like most foreign recruits, Lamb was placed in the Rhodesian Light Infantry, or the RLI. Lamb did very well in training. He eventually went into a commando unit, maybe because he had a lot of experience firing guns at people since he was a young age.

According to firsthand accounts, he ditched his antisocial problems, got along fine with his new buddies. They probably all bonded over their mutual respect for the American Nazi Party, of which many of the foreigners were members. Go back, listen to the Broken Eagles or the the crippled eagles episode of rhodesia we go into more about all of the nazis who were volunteered to fight in rhodesia because there were so many nazis who volunteered to fight in rhodesia i will keep saying that also a lot of them died and that's where they should be and that's where they should be. Now, a part of what probably made all of this easier was that Lamb was never open about his history this time around.

He had learned his lesson. He never told anybody about his past because even to a group of militant racists, Lamb was probably just a bit much. I imagine. Yeah. Lamb was also scared that if anything leaked out to the Canadian press

like about him being in Rhodesia, say if he was like killed or captured, the Canadian press would be like, oh shit, look, it's the spree killer and it would ruin his reputation or make people judge Rhodesia harshly.

God forbid someone do that, right? Yeah. Folks, we call this foreshadowing. Lan finished his training and eventually flew home to visit his family on leave. While there, he wore his LRI dress uniform, and he was incredibly proud of his service in Rhodesia. Now, according to Barker he got very very upset when some Canadians openly voiced that

how Rodizzo was an incredibly racist place and he must be racist for fighting for them now Barker does his best to try to defend Lamb at every turn so like he constantly says that like like Lamb

respected black people and he was just an anti-communist which we all know what that means um his direct quote is quote he's simple now okay before i say this these are his words not mine okay quote he sympathized with the blacks but believed chaos would ensue if they took over so uh yeah that means you're racist bro yeah Barker also claims that he used to get in fights uh with his fellow soldiers

if they treated black soldiers unfairly and there was black soldiers within the Rhodesian uh infantry uh they were drafted most of them ran from the draft if they could but you know some were drafted. Most of them ran from the draft if they could, but some were drafted. That seems unlikely to say the least. Okay.

So here's why. I can't say that this is not true. I will say unlikely. As the LRI was an all-white unit, and while black soldiers would eventually outnumber white soldiers in Rhodesia by around 1976, Lamb's encounter with them would have been few and far between as he never

joined an unsegregated unit during the time that he was in Rhodesia so unless they're randomly assaulting people in passing this wouldn't have happened um or maybe Lamb just made it up and Barker believed it I don't know that's one of those situations

like I can't be racist. One of my friends is a black soldier. Yeah. In Rhodesia. Still not good. Yeah. While Lamb was home, he never took his uniform off. Now, Ontario, big area.

Windsor, big city. However, back then, small town atmosphere, right? And not to mention mention everybody know who matthew charles lamb is people recognize him immediately his crimes were not that long ago right uh so then they just saw him walking up and down the street in the dress uniform of a soldier and it fucking scared people like uh the one of the families of the victims saw him walking down the street and like would not come out of their house. Probably because, remember, the last time he was walking up and down that street, he was pumping shotgun rounds into people.

Yeah. Now, he returned to Rhodesia, and he entered selection to join the Special Air Service and passed, eventually becoming a paratrooper. Though, he hated his time in the SAS, because while in the RLI, he saw significantly more combat. While the SAS did like Secret Squirrel recon stuff. So he requested a transfer back, which he got. Because he enjoyed shooting at people from a very young age. And now he was just doing it professionally. By late 1976, he was promoted to Lance Corporal and put in charge of four other junior soldiers right before they were sent on Operation Thresher.

Now, in the Bush War, they split military areas up into operations. So Thresher wasn't like a big offensive or whatever. Operation Thresher was simply operations that covered Rhodesia's eastern highlands. was simply operations that covered Rhodesia's eastern highlands. On November 7th of the same year, he and his team were deployed to an area via helicopter to chase down a group of seven insurgents that were spotted. When they landed, they took fire from an area and dove into cover. Lamb and an Australian named Tony Rock stood up

and attempted to move forward. And at the same time, an insurgent ran from them from like left to right in front of them now before either of them could react uh another trooper named cornelius olivier oh fucking harry potter ass name uh i wouldn't know i I've never seen Harry Potter. Trooper Cornelius Olivier was still in the grass behind them. He saw the person run in front of them, panicked, and opened fire, despite

the fact that two of his own soldiers were directly in front of them. He shot both of them and killed one. Holy fuck. Suppressing fire. Death blossom. You know, it's kind of funny because we've talked about this a lot,

especially back during the Crippled Eagles episode, like how frequent it was for these guys to accidentally shoot one another. I'm just starting to think that they're bad at their jobs, probably their record it definitely tracks yeah they're uh they're oh and one because they don't exist anymore rest in piss rhodesia now uh just as lamb thought as soon as canada got word that he had been killed in rhodesia the the press blew his cover one article in the Calgary Herald

described him as quote a man with a history of violence and insanity this also made the Canadian government look bad because it turns out that legally he should have never been issued a passport in the first place due to his many crimes and they even renewed it in 1976 knowing he was serving in a

nation's military that they did not recognize therefore making it illegal. What? Meanwhile in Rhodesia Lam was given a hero's funeral. His remains were let on a gun carriage under the Rhodesian flag and given a full gun salute with multiple senior officers in attendance. At no

point did they point out that he got killed by his own men. He was temporarily buried at the same military cemetery that they buried the Nazis in for the last episode that a listener peed on. Though eventually his cremated remains were sent back to Canada at the request of his

family. His grandmother. she was like oh fuck i forgot about him no they were in uh like when he went to canada he was visiting his grandma the whole time oh i thought he was visiting just barker probably also that like barker was his dad and i was thinking like that's his dad dad figure It really seemed like they had a father son relationship because at no point does Barker ever like own up to like, he killed this kid effect. Like now I'm not going to say Barker did not,

um, recover. He seems to be when he got out of the mental institution and was working on Barker's farm, even in the, like he seemed to be functioning perfectly fine. Um, now under continued close observation medication and rehab he could have led a normal life when he brought up this idea

for military service barker was like yeah you should go do that it's a great idea so then he did and he fucking died not to mention how many people, how many Zimbabweans he killed fighting for their own liberation before he got got by his own guy. You know what I mean? So like, fuck Dr. Barker. He could have saved a lot of people's lives. And instead, he did the worst possible thing he could have possibly done. Now, the Canadian media did not go unnoticed in Rhodesia.

In the main newspaper of the country, the Rhodesian Herald ran a story about Lamb and his history in Canada, including how he murdered two people and spent a whole bunch of time in a mental institution. The editor got flooded with angry letters from soldiers saying that they had to be lying, so the Herald apologized

and retracted their story. What? His picture hung on the RLI commando wall of honor until the unit was disbanded at the end of White Rule and the death of Rhodesia. He is still memorialized on the Rhodesian RLI

website. They leave all of his history out. They say that he was killed during Operation Thresher by his own men. He just glossed right over that. Yeah. Now, you can take this a lot of different ways.

He seemed to be flirtatious with ideas of racism and Nazism from a young age, who happened to also be crazy. Or or you could take the fact that he was fascinated with those things because he was crazy either way he ended up saddling up to next to a whole bunch of nazis and dying so like i don't have a lot of sympathy for this guy no i don't think he should have been there because his doctor who should have been his fucking

legal ward at this point should have stopped him from doing it. Not to mention, he should have been allowed to enlist even in Rhodesia. You know what I mean? But yeah, fuck him. If he would have just got out of prison and

worked at a goddamn farm for the rest of his life and not go saddle up with fucking the white nationalist cavalry in Africa, I wouldn't give a shit. Good for him. I'm glad he got rehabilitated. Yeah. Instead, you know what? Sometimes karma takes about 20 something years.

But Nick, we do a little thing on this show. A question from the Legion. I don't know why I was expecting a soundboard sound I don't have one yet I don't know what should the intro to that be I don't know like sick licks from a guitar if you're listening

and you have suggestions for what you think the intro to questions from the Legion should be let us know but until then if you'd like to ask us a question from Legion, you can donate a dollar to the show. Ask us through Patreon, through our Discord. You could

put a message in a bottle and throw it into the Pacific Ocean. Don't do that. That's polluting. Attach it to an armadillo. Send that armadillo south. Hope that armadillo finds Nick in Texas. How about that? Don an armadillo send that armadillo south hope that armadillo finds nick in texas how about that doesn't don't armadillos carry uh leprosy i think they do so when your arm falls off attach it to the armadillo send it south to nick um now today's uh is, what is the worst MRE you've ever had and why is it the pizza MRE?

I fucking hate the pizza MRE. Is it that bad? No. But my thing is, when they say pizza slice, they mean pizza slice. It's one fucking napkin rectangle of a fucking pizza slice. That's not filling at all. I have to say the worst one that I've ever had is probably, I don't remember

what the official name for it was, but it was old and it was like four hot dogs in a package. What the fuck? And everybody called it the four fingers of death. Oh, I forgot you joined back when fucking you guys were using muskets and shit. Fuck you. Yeah, no. I don't have any real bad

experience with MREs because I joined at a time where they were alright. And I also don't care. You know me. I'll fucking eat anything. Yeah. I mean, I would have to say mine was that or Country Captain's Chicken, which is real, real bad. What? Yeah. This sounds like it's wrong.

I don't know if it's anachronistic or a rumor. I heard it made a lot of people sick I think it's just like when those things like sometimes when you add all of these stabilizing chemicals together in just the right combination sometimes it just gives people diarrhea

now I do remember a field food that they got rid of that involved it with I think it was like chicken Alfredo and then the side was shrimp scampi. I know that made people sick. I can say from first-hand experience the shrimp scampi made me violently ill.

Was it good? Yes. No, it was not. It just tasted like cheap butter sauce, which I think is what made everybody sick. The butter sauce just lubed up their insides. Yeah. In all honesty, probably a good drunk food because you need the grease to let the fucking hate that you have for yourself go down.

Yeah. I don't know if it might hit too fast. You're too drunk to respect the drunk poops the next day. It just hits you immediately. Oh, the drunk poops. Yeah. But no, I never had a bad experience with an MRE, to be honest, other than the fucking pizza slice they got me.

I counter that with veggie omelet. I never had the opportunity. It's still there. They haven't discontinued that, have they? Are you sure? I haven't seen it. I've opened up a lot of MREs in my life. Maybe they have.

Honestly, good choice. I think they got rid of it. I know for a fact I sent you a new one that I've seen. I think it was something like goulash or something. I mean, you can't fuck up goulash. It's like fucking up chili mac. I've never had it. So when I tasted it, I was like, this is pretty good.

It came with a side of cigarette water. It was good. Somehow this conversation made me hungry. But Nick, thanks for joining me on another great journey into the depths of disgusting Rhodesia. I have to partially admit I did this because I continue to get hate mail over the Rhodesia episode we made a year ago. I honestly thought you did this just because you wanted to dunk on him some more. Also that. I mean, it's never old. It's like talking about Confederates. This is alright.

This is good with me. It won't be the last one. I'll figure out another way. And when I run out of Rhodesia episodes, apartheid South Africa, you're fucking next. Until next time, as always, fuck Rhodesia.