Lions Led By Donkeys Podcast - Episode 16 - War of 1812 Part 1: A Cannonball to the Face

Episode Date: September 10, 2018

It's our first ever series so buckle up as we talk about the beginnings of the War of 1812 between a newborn America and British Empire. Thank you to everyone for donating and helping fund the research into our show! https://www.patreon.com/lionsledbydonkeys Follow the podcast on twitter @lions_by Follow Joe on twitter @jkass99 Follow Nick on twitter @nickcasm1

Hello and welcome to another episode of Lions Led by Donkeys podcast. Yeah, we're doing that podcast again. I'm Joe. I'm Nick. And today we're getting ambitious. We are going to do our first ever series, mostly out of necessity because Nick is going on leave and he's going to California. Fuck, I'm not going to California. What the fuck? You don't listen to me. I thought you were going to California. No. Where are you going? he's going to California. Fuck, I'm not going to California. What the fuck? You don't listen to me.

I thought you were going to California. No. Where are you going? I'm going to Texas. Oh, that's not even remotely close to the same thing. It's buddy related. Visiting family, I tend to drive and I think more or less on the first 30 minutes to an hour, I'm just like,

why am I driving? Why am I doing this? Do I need to see my family? I don't need to see my family. I hate them too. Fucking hate it. Like driving from Texas just to fucking Washington. That drive was awful. I wanted to kill myself at least on every road I saw.

Yeah, because once, so driving through Texas, like the east part of Texas, takes like fucking eight hours. And then you're rewarded by getting into New mexico which is nothing terrible i mean i i hear there's nice touristy spots from new mexico but that's not the part that you drive through no um and then you go through utah again not the nice part nope and if you want to get adventurous you can drive through northern california which is a which is a scorched hellscape okay here's what i did. I drove from Texas, went through from central Texas to El Paso, New Mexico, Arizona, up California. I did that when I was a kid. Visited my family.

And I was like, why did I do this? I should have just flew. That drive sucked. I did that on my way back from Oregon when I was on the firefighting cruise. I was half tempted to sell my truck in California just to fly. So I guess we should get remotely on topic today. Well, I know you're excited because you're leaving and you get to go on vacation. You know, I mean, vacation from the Army is like the sweetest vacation.

It is until I'm like probably 10 days in and I'm just like, there's nothing to do. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well. Yeah, like, there's nothing to do. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well. Yeah, we'll find out. Who knows? Yeah. Well, today we are actually going to cover something that we have meant to cover since

we actually came up with the idea of this podcast. I think it was like on our first idea. It was. And that is the War of 1812. Because our one. And the reason we're going to cover this is because it doesn't seem like, well, it seems like most people know about it. But they don't actually know about it. They don't know shit about it.

It's really glossed over in textbooks during school. It's really glossed over. All they talk about really is the burning down of the White House. Yeah. And the first lady fucking saved George Washington's painting. And it wasn't actually her but we'll get into that part right and uh we won and the national anthem oh yeah uh that's right but you know that's another we'll get into that argument on part two uh the war of 1812

part two electric boogaloo is we'll we'll actually talk about who actually won this war um but you know i remember growing up i took a lot you know history class is like the only class i pay attention to i think we've talked about that one a half dozen times now um and i still didn't know a whole lot about it uh because it's kind of glossed over it's that weird middle zone in between the civil war and the revolutionary war not a part of history that people seem to care a whole lot about which is really weird because that's technically our first big declaration of war as an independent country it is our first declaration of war i don't see why it should be glossed over right but it also i can see why it is honestly it it doesn't make us look great it doesn't um yeah i mean i don't know how it can't

be though i mean think think this it involves emperor napoleon the first of france and involves multiple invasions of canada the creation of the u.s national anthem um the routing of forces away from the nation's capital which you think is something that people want to fight to the death and then you know if you're our current president you only really remember the burning of the white house part and everything else is canada's fault um you know history isn't always that simple it's kind of why we're here um so let's begin the story um it begins after america's first war that whole one of independence um as you may imagine by war's end england and the newly freed united states were not exactly

the tight-knit friendship that they are today. Instead, the U.S. depended a lot on France for trade, while England began to get weary at this new independent nation's and new geopolitical foe that bordered their rather important colony of Canada. Generally, these disagreements between the two surfaced in what we now consider proxy wars. Though not in the form that Americans are used to.

In that we are the ones getting proxied. We're the victims here. But, I mean, we had to learn it from somebody. We took notes. We studied. You see, when America broke free from england

england began to worry about uh what american designs and intentions were about western expansion and more than that england is worried about possible american ideas about canada uh if you remember in the revolutionary war and if you don't or if you're not american go back and read it we probably won't cover it um because it's not exactly donkey territory yeah and mike duncan killed that shit and revolutions and i'm not going to step on his toe um so we already invaded canada before with the intention of taking it over so i mean there's we have a history um the episode ended in hilarious defeat but the seeds were sown in the mind of england's leaders one that england could like couldn't keep its uh

and keep a blind spot and they decided that instead of deploying massive amounts of regular troops to canada they would keep their young adversaries in check through the local indian population yeah um so in the treaty of paris which ended the revolutionary war and was signed they would keep their young adversaries in check through the local Indian population. Yeah. Um, so in the treaty of Paris, which ended the revolutionary war and was signed in 1783, Britain ceded the U S controlled the Northwest territory. What they didn't do was abandon their forts in the area and stop arming the

natives. Um, and they also paid the natives to attack Americans. Nice. Um, so you can see that there's kind of issues here. Also, I couldn't find the exact wording of the treaty in modern English, but the treaty is worded so that they were actually allowed to stay in their forts. And I don't know if that is America's desperation to end the war and get on with starting a state um or the fact they didn't

read it all that closely i i go with the second one honestly i think it might be both like france like you just fucking sign it and let's get this over with because i mean in the late 1700s france has a lot of its own shit to deal with yeah and we're kind of looking at him like dad yeah looking up so they began to organize the natives and pay them to launch attacks on american settlements and civilians like i said uh so in effect the brits just didn't care about the treaty and the u.s knew it the issues would eventually lead to outright war between those two sides that is the natives and the americans not the british and the americans so the british were definitely involved um this war did not go well for the new United States.

After numerous raids and settlements, President George Washington ordered the U.S. Army to march into the area and settle the problem. The only problem that was handled, though, was that the Americans were in the natives land. The first campaign in 1790 was led by a General Joe Harmer, who so thoroughly routed it became known as Harmer's Defeat. The next, in 1791, became known as St. Clair's Defeat, in case you're wondering if it ended any better than the first.

Nice. So when you say routed, it really brings me back to my Empire Total War days or Napoleonic Total War. Effectively the same. They're not marching away. I just see a flag

blinking and running. That's all I see. Your troops have been routed. Yeah, when St. Clair brought the mouse over his troops, it just said shattered. Yeah. He knew he was in trouble.

They probably won't be coming back. He just hit escape. General St. Clair's combined force of regular army militia was so soundly beaten only 24 people escaped the campaign unharmed out of about a thousand. Fuck. Jesus Christ. It would actually become the only beaten only 24 people escaped the campaign unharmed out of about a thousand fuck jesus christ it would actually uh would become the um the most troops ever lost to natives ever in the history of

the united i could believe that yeah and this is like decades before we get into the indian wars with custer which is the one everybody knows about or the french indian war that happened before this which we do want to cover. Yeah, we do. St. Clair did such a bad job. The investigation into his campaign was actually the first one ever by the executive branch of the United States government. So he's blazing trails. Jesus Christ.

Just in reverse. Yeah. That was only then when revolutionary war hero Matt Anthony Wayne gathered an army that was awesomely titled The Legion of the United States. Was Matt his first name? It's in quotations. Oh, okay. revolutionary war hero, Matt Anthony Wayne, gathered an army that was awesomely titled the Legion of the United States. Was Matt his first name?

It's in quotations. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. He gathered the Legion of the United States in 1793. Sweet name, dude.

Yes. And the Americans were able to get the upper hand. Anthony's legions crushed the natives at the Battle of Fallen Timbers.

Also, by the way, huge missed opportunity here by the Department of Defense. They totally should have kept that name alive. Anthony's Legions? No, the Legion of the United States. Oh, that would have been sweet. That would have been way cooler. I mean, at least like, because a lot of the units that fought in the War of 1812,

there's modern day army units that trace their lineage back to them not the leading is lineage is kind of hazy and gray and they're just kind of grasping at straws but there's no fucking legion nowadays oh we should have kept that alive yeah that'd be sweet that'd be a sweet name tape yeah yeah for sure yeah and i imagine you get to have sweet cool white hats fuck dude uh so this small war would eventually be known as the Northwest Indian War, the Ohio War, or Little Turtles War. Also showed something else that the British wanted, an Indian buffer state between the United States and Canada.

Now, this isn't some progressive idea of native sovereignty. They just wanted a check in place in case the united states ever got their shit together and decided they wanted canada they wanted some insurance before yeah right they are effectively the same as like poland was that the soviet union they needed some space for people to roll through before they got to the real shit yeah um and there was you know they had a leader in tecumseh who could put their military together and something resembling something they could check the united states and i mean the united states at this point is fractured there's states

that won't trade with other states uh states that won't submit their militia to federal control for these wars um you know the brits definitely had a Kind of a shit show. Oh, God, yeah. So that plan was shelved for the time being with the natives' defeat in 1795. The Victory family got rid of the rest of the British forts in the area, though, so the Legion did accomplish something important. What really saved the U.S.'s ass here

was that the British did not want to get involved in another front of what had become the French Revolutionary Wars that was spreading like wildfire through Europe at the time. Great Britain was currently ass-deep in the war of the First Coalition against Revolutionary France. The last thing they needed was a distraction

that could sap away their ground forces, or worse, have America join in and invade Canada. Granted, I mean, Revolutionary France at this time is super unstable. This is pre-Napoleon as council and later emperor. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know French Revolution that much. Is this Les Miserables time we're talking?

Well, this is, I guess so, because this is in the middle of like the chaos of... Okay, so Russell Crowe's there. Just cutting through swaths of governments in very short amount of times. It's probably one of the more confusing areas of history that you can study because in a span of like three years, they go through a dozen governments. I have a hard time with that, which is why I stick to, okay, they had a revolution. Sweet.

Great musical. Thank you very much, LA Public Schools. So this fear of America joining their former Revolutionary War allies never actually took place, or at least not directly. Interesting side note, though, some Americans would join the French Revolution. One of those Americans was a guy named William Tate, and he would lead a French Revolutionary Army to invade the British mainland. to invade the British mainland. This unit was known as the Legion Nordae, or the Black Legion,

invaded Wales in 1797 and led to the Battle of Fishguard. While his legion was defeated, it meant an American led the last invasion of the British mainland by foreign forces in history, at least so far. Nice. Tate's motivation, ironically enough, was intense British hatred due to his family

being killed by British armed natives in the Northwest Territory. All comes full circle, Britain. Gee, what the fuck? We probably should have learned a lesson from that. Yeah. Like, if you keep pissing off all these people, it's eventually going to bite you in the ass.

Yeah. But, you know, we didn't. We tend not to, yeah. It seemed like things between the US and Great Britain had finally cooled down. Britain was still trapped in the polionic wars and by the time of the year 1807 britain is locked in the war of the third coalition now and napoleon is the master of mainland europe he was trying desperately to knock england out of the war and was even planning a land invasion of the british isles until the franco-panish Navy was destroyed at the Battle of Trafalgar.

After this setback, a ground invasion of the British mainland was impossible, so Britain resorted to economic warfare. He would attempt to fight Britain's massive worldwide commercial power, which is never a good idea. He is one of several people who thought this was a good idea. To do this, he rolled out what was known as the Continental System. is a good idea to do this he rolled out was known as the continental system this system was put in place to counter what was known as this the golden cavalry of saint george which is a really really fancy name for a giant british wallet that funded the constant stream of alliances who always seemed ready to fight france since the beginning of the revolution meaning that britain was funding everything right um the constant wars had bankrupted most nations in europe except england and england made sure to give them a reason to keep fighting and

that was della della bill and that was what napoleon was trying to fight he's going to try to strangle them off from trade um this system laid out in the the Berlin decree of 1807 meant that no nations allied or conquered by France could do business with England. The idea was if you were an island, Napoleon would strangle you off for trade. This meant effectively the entirety of mainland Europe could no longer trade with, um, England. This didn't work out that great yeah um because it was impossible to enforce and a lot of the nations who actually were loyal to napoleon not necessarily like terrified of being invaded um because like he put family members in place of a lot of thrones right like his brother was the i believe the emperor of the Netherlands.

Um, he put a cousin, I think in charge of, of Spain, things like that. A lot of trust in that family. Well, even they kept trading with England because, um,

they had no fucking choice. Like if we start with train with England, we're going to go broke. People are going to starve, man. So it was a bad system. England though, immediately counted with the orders of council in the same year.

The order forbade all trade with France, period. Its allies and neutral nations cannot trade with France. You can kind of see how it's an issue. While France's order was constrictive to the people in its sphere of influence, England just said nobody can trade with France, period. That is going to be hard to enforce um one of france's largest neutral trade partners was of course america yeah and america got pissed they said britain was in violation of international law by attempting to regulate who they couldn't and could not trade with which was true there was no law in place saying a sovereign nation could tell another sovereign nation who they can and can't trade with. Right.

Unless it's an act of war. Um, British governmental opinion immediately turned on the U S and according to historian Reginald Horseman, the probably the most Britishly named guy ever. He said, a large section of influential British opinion, both in the government and the military, thought that America presented a clear and present threat to British maritime supremacy.

Which is kind of hilarious because the Royal Navy absolutely controls the seas and America's Navy is virtually nothing. At the time. Right. They had a very large merchant marine, which is different. Very different, yes. But apparently they decided that America was now a threat. At the same time all this is going on, the Royal Navy had exploded in growth during the years of war on mainland Europe.

And why wouldn't it? Their powerful navy was the only thing keeping Napoleon at bay. It grew from 176 ships of the line to 600 and required a staggering 140 000 people to fully man holy fuck during peacetime this actually would have been an issue they would have had plenty of volunteers um with pay and benefits and all the other life of you know live on a ship but the the wars had bred all sorts of small side careers such as privateers or joining the merchant marine both of which paid significantly better had better living conditions and were just all around a better deal right um so the royal navy began outright kidnapping people was oh and

i i know that is one of the issues they would uh at America's naval ships or and take them, I guess, forcefully. Yeah, that's where I'm getting to. It is known as impressment. Yeah. Or press ganging. The Royal Navy could and would grab anybody who is a British citizen and force them to work aboard their ships without pay for effectively as long as they needed you, which was a long time. ships without pay for effectively as long as they needed you, which was a long time.

If, if you caught that little thing in there, it said British citizens, you're going to learn Britain kind of stretched that definition pretty, pretty far. Yeah, they did. It was originally meant to force British citizens into service. Deserters,

people who just try to get away from serving things like that. As time more on, however, they began to care less and less about that whole British thing and began to press any serviceable sailor into service. To make matters worse, the British just outright refused to accept the idea of naturalized American citizenship, meaning anybody who had immigrated from England to America would be free for the taking. Right. Which was tens of thousands of people.

The American government also believed any British deserter running from the coalition wars had the right to become an American if they wanted to. The British obviously had other thoughts on the issue. This had become a major issue to the American merchant marine sailing towards France at the time because a full 11,000 of the merchant marine sailors

were naturalized citizens of British birth. What? 11,000. Yeah. This is where the British order against neutral nations trading with France came into play. Americans knew that the order was in place. Of course they did. They hated it and were going to

do anything to get around it. It was not going to stop them. So they tried various tricks to try to get around it. it was not gonna stop them so they tried various tricks to try to get around it some of them work some of them didn't but when they didn't their ships would be taken in the royal by the royal navy and the entire crews pressed into service it did not take long for this to erupt in war right or not necessarily war but outright combat once people learn that just surrendering to the british was going to lead to the life of slavery they're not going to go so quietly yeah um an incident became known as the leander affair the hms leander then under the command of captains william leal and

henry whitby the hms driver under singles b Simpson, which again, so British, and the HMS Cambrian under John Narn were docked off of Sandy Hook, Connecticut, supposedly to watch two French frigates who had taken refuge in the harbor. However, in the summer of 1804, the warships began stopping and boarding all American ships going from New York to just outside the United States three mile territorial limit, searching for any goods bound for France. If they found anything suspicious, the ship was detained and taken to Halifax, Nova Scotia, along with its crew who would not return. Does it say what is suspicious shipping? It doesn't, but I will assume it's any shipping. Yeah, that's fair.

On 25 April 1806, Leander was chasing a ship and the ship would not stop. Leander fired a warning shot over the bow of the merchant ship, signaling it for it to stop or it'd open fire for real. The cannonball, you know, its warning shot, sailed through the air, passed into the harbor, and hit a guy named John Pierce in the face, decapitating him. He was the helminth of a

sloop known as the Richard, and was just going along his daily business. Jesus Christ. Just got fucking dome-pieced out of nowhere. Did he not? Did they? I don't think backdrop was a huge concern of them. I don't think they were.

All they saw was ship, nothing behind it. They had to have known. No, but they had to have known, but no fucks given. No, they just didn't give a shit. Exactly. So they were just like, do it. Yeah. I mean, they i mean they have to think well really what are they going to do to us yeah which i mean is really going to do go to war with us which is effectively their entire name of their operation here is we don't give a shit our fuck bucket is dry what is america gonna do

they're not gonna go to war with us yeah uh so in another incident off the coast of norfolk virginia the american frigate the uss chesapeake was being stalked by the hms leopard the leopard's commander was an incredibly british man by the name of solace barry humphries dude i love these names i know these names are great uh was acting under the information that the chesapeake had several british citizens on board and meant to take them the leopard waved down the chesapeake had several British citizens on board and meant to take them. The Leopard waved down the Chesapeake and ordered it to stop. The Chesapeake, being a warship, just kept going. The Leopard decided it was going to fire a warning shot

to tell it meant business. And it did. And then immediately followed it with a full broadside of cannons. Jesus. Before the Americans could react. Nice warning shots. Yeah, it was like, oh, like that meme on Facebook,

oh, when your warning shot hits the guy yeah i thought you were gonna go i don't know timmy got hit on the dock no no no the whole ship the whole ship got fucked uh the chesapeake beat was completely unready for combat as you can imagine they weren't at war yeah and none of her guns were on the deck ready to fire um and they quickly surrendered in total three of her crew were killed, 18 were wounded, and then to add insult to injury, the British boarded the ship and took the four British citizens into their custody.

One of which, a guy named Jenkins Ratford, the British-born man, really was a deserter from the Royal Navy. So he was promptly drug out to the gallows and executed by begging for desertion. The other guys were not returned. So how many people are on the ship at once?

It depends on the size. I know it goes by tonnage back then and there's sloops and frigates. I'm not exactly a naval history guy. It's not my thing. But I do know at the time in comparison to

comparable British ships, American frigates were huge. Like almost a double in size. So 50, 60 guys. Okay. I want to say about a Pirates Caribbean amount of much. Yeah.

It's at least one black Pearl. Okay. I like that. It's a good size. Yeah. It's a measurement. Yeah. This led to a storm of outrage in the American populace and its government.

As you can imagine uh they just got wrecked by a british warship out of nowhere yeah they got blindsided yeah uh and they i mean they really didn't get a chance to surrender yeah as you can and and i know uh my my american bias will come out in this i try not to um because america had done a lot of dumb shit during this war but america will get them back with an equally cheap shot. Yeah. I mean, shortly for,

I foresee a lot of salt. Yeah. Cause there is still a lot of salt with this whole 1812 thing. Only if you're dumb. Yeah. And guess what? There's a lot of dump. Yeah.

So anti-British anger and sentiment began to build and they started. I mean, this this whole thing wasn't new. It all started when they decapitated that poor random guy back in April. President. How fucking unlucky. Yeah. I mean, if only he stopped to tie his shoes. Yeah.

Or like been anywhere else or not there. It just sucks to be that guy. I mean, at least you didn't feel anything. Just true. Gone. Imagine being the guy who found him, though. Just headless laying on a dock and nobody has any idea why. Because his head isn't left. The cannonball had to completely

obliterate it. Maybe the cannonball takes over as the head. That'd be sweet. I'd like'd be sweet that would i'd like to see that painting um i'd like to see that madman villain cannonball face uh so president thomas jefferson noted that quote ever since the battle of lexington have i seen this country have such state of exasperation at the present that did not produce such hatred after this uh the it was the prince turned to be outraged in something called the little belt affair in 1811 the what the little belt affair they're wearing little belts now isn't in the ship horse there's an american frigate creatively

known as the uss president attacked a british sloop knows the hms little belt you get attacked for that name that's a terrible little belt was Little Belt was stolen from, I think, the Dutch, and the name meant something else in Dutch, but they were British and they just said it sounded like Little Belt. I would change the name. That's a terrible name. If I saw that name, that's a beta name. Easy. Dog that

ship. Say the ship was a beta? Little Belt? Get fucked. Yeah, so the president is the uh fuck what are they called there's the cucks and the the president is the chad the uss president is a chad ship clearly um god i fucking so there's a douche yeah i fucking yeah this ship has like frosted tips he's got a flat fucking uh flat cap god i i hate us right now i don't blame anybody for turning us off after that little belt was uh was a sloop so it was much smaller than a frigate um so the the little

belt displaced only 460 tons uh in contrast the president uh 1,500. Fuck. The sloop mounted 20 guns while the president carried 56. That's more. And like I've pointed out, we are not scholars of naval warfare. I will never claim to know much about naval warfare unless I research it in depth, which I did not. The most I know about it is my dad was in the Navy. That's all I know about it. So, I mean, everybody can see that this is not going to end well for the Little Belt.

Yeah. Well, when Chad's on your six. Yeah. And he's coming for your six. Yeah. Real hard. Yeah. He's looking for some butt stuff. God, I hate you. Chad's looking to sue somebody. His dad owns everything. His dad is.

So, when fighting commenced the uh the president suffered only one man late wounded splinters um well the little belt was just about sank 11 of its men were killed and 23 were wounded um so then the british obviously made calls for revenge while the u.s is just happy they finally managed to beat the Royal Navy. They're still not at war. No, they're not. They're not. They're just fucking... We're a year away from war at this point. But then America was just happy that they beat the Royal Navy. And then just to give the

British the middle finger. That's like a Chad thing. Yeah. So then just to be extra Chad, the US Navy then impressed all the British sailors. You're with us now. Yeah, they're like, come on, bro. We'll show you what happens

when you impress us. We'll fucking kidnap you right back. Also remember that during all these incidents, the British-backed Indians are constantly raiding settlements all around America's western border. While the native forces

had lost the Northwest War, that did not mean the British intention to create the native buffer state between Canada and America had stopped. If anything, it just ramped it up because now the Americans are shooting at us. As such, British weapons kept flowing right out of the hands of the native fighters. Attacks on American settlers in the Northwest further aggravated tension between Britain and the United States. Raiding became much more common in 1810 and 1811. Westerners in Congress found the raids intolerable and wanted the government to find some way to end them permanently.

British policy toward the Indians of the Northwest was torn between the desire to keep the Americans fighting and distracted and to preserve the region for, uh, provided rich profits for, uh, Canadian fur traders up North also versus the fear that too much of this shit would cause outright war at the United States. You know, they're,

they're trying to balance like 18 things at once and it's not going well. Can we almost say proxy war here? Oh, this is definitely proxy war. This is absolutely proxy war. Um, this is, I guess this is absolutely proxy war um this is i guess this is where america learned it from like i said yeah yeah it's it's the og proxy war for

america this is where we took notes yeah all this directly impacted the american attempt at expansion in the lands they were technically supposed to control since the treaty of paris uh finally on june the 1st 1812 president james mad Madison sent an issue of grievances to Congress, which included the imprisonment of American sailors, armed engagement between the U.S. and British frigates, British-supplied Native Americans with weapons, the British politicians in Parliament and Canada pushing for that buffer state. American trade with Napoleonic France was limited, and they wanted that to be stopped. The U.S.-Canadian border was never actually really drawn out at the conclusion of the American Revolution. It was kind of just shelved for later. Okay. And they wanted that to be resolved.

Then that kind of turned into a declaration of war. The House of Representatives voted 79 to 49 in favor of the U S's first declaration of war. The Senate would concur by 19 to 13, making it actually the closest formal vote on war in American history to this day, since we just don't vote on those anymore. Um, it became official and Madison signed the document into law on the 18th of June.

Now here comes one of history's little curve balls back on May 11 11th, an assassin had killed British Prime Minister Spencer Percival. God, these names. Leading to an accession of a guy named Lord Liverpool. Yes. Who sounds like the British version of Captain America, but he just kicks soccer balls at people. Yes. I love that name. One of the first things Liverpool did is wanting to normalize things with the U.S.

So he scrapped the orders of council and ended the impressment of soldiers. He also made this all official on June 23rd. Because this is 1812, though, it would take three weeks for this new the travel across the ocean. I would imagine. By the time the HMS Colbury, the carrying the good news the United States got there the US already declared war but would find all the reasons to declare war gone

as well the British would find out they were suddenly at war imagine that you're the captain of the Colbury walking off the ship holding all the good news and then suddenly everybody wants to shoot you fuck that would suck I'd feel like the dude that got decapitated earlier yeah hey guys i'm here yeah hey guys how's it going get the fuck out um it would actually take a further three weeks for the british government to find out they

were actually at war however so in total six weeks yes we're talking six weeks here uh however uh it only took eight days for this news to reach a different part of england that is canada the first people to learn about the war that are not the united states government are the british and canada you notice it there's a huge gap here yeah yeah uh nobody decided to tell anybody about this shit in the american military and i think this goes on even till later on we'll get into it later i'm sure in part two oh yeah yeah so that's pretty awesome i mean it's just kind of nature of the beast at the time like anybody can email anybody and or there's not even like a this should have been an email yeah there's not even a telegram or anything they couldn't exactly they had to depend on the speed of a giant wooden ship floating

across the atlantic ocean that's already a problem as is yeah so the canadians now know about the war um it like i said it took eight days to reach british canada as soon as word reached isaac brock the administrator of upper canada he immediately ordered his militia to service and order the commander of the British post at Fort St. Joseph and a captain named Charles Robert to invade Northern Michigan. Just immediately. Roberts began to look around to put invading army together because they didn't have one.

And what he had was not impressive. He found three guys from the Royal artillery, 47 soldiers from the 10th Royal veterans battalion who Robert notes in his dispatches were debilitated and worn down by quote, unconquerable drunkenness is really what else are you going to do in colonial Canada? Yeah. Uh,

his words, not mine. Uh, and 150 Canadian for traders and 300 natives. To invade... Michigan. Michigan. Yeah, which really all you need to invade Michigan these days

is some cheap light beer and, you know, an auto worker's job, I guess. But, you know, he doesn't exactly have the grand army here. No, he doesn't. No. To make matters worse, Roberts actually kept getting orders from Brock to cancel and then restart the invasion. At the same time, he was getting orders from the adjutant general of all British forces in Canada, Colonel Edward Baines, to just focus on defending St. Joseph's Island. So he's getting like three different orders all at once.

So Roberts decided to say, fuck it, and invade Canada Zone anyway on the 15th of July. Yeah, so he is hodgepodge of militia and fur traders and random drunken dudes just stormed into Michigan. I would imagine

even these days, Michigan's not hard to take over. They're not known for their defense anymore. Fucking Red Wings. Get fucked. He threw a hockey joke at me. Yeah, I did. Yeah, fuck you. Because it's coming.

30 days. Yeah, yeah. I don't need hockey to be disappointed. I'm also a Lions fan. I'm just... Honestly, the worst thing my dad ever did to me was make me a sports fan before he died. Because all my team just make me sad exactly

this is why i only hit you on one front i don't decide to hit you on all of them so hilariously enough the soldiers uh the u.s soldiers were stationed at nearby fort mackinac an island on the other side of the border only numbered about 61 dudes and no idea they're at war yeah nobody knows anything no somehow the government declares war and the first people to figure it out are dudes in Canada. Speaking volumes for the efficiency of early United States government here. Yeah. The U.S. government had thought ahead to debate, vote, and draft on a declaration of war. Never thought it was all that important to get word out to the guys in the forts near the place they're planning on fighting at.

Well done, gentlemen. Well done. Jesus. get word out to the guys in the forts near the place they're planning on fighting at well done gentlemen well done jesus um and honestly even if they did know they were no shape to defend anything whatsoever i imagine they wouldn't even have enough time uh well i mean they're enough they call it fort mackinac i've been to mackinac island um i've been to the city of mackinac not exactly the the most defensible place on earth. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, I could see that because there's this and we've talked about it in our old another episode we had. I think it was 10. I believe I can't remember.

It was on Fort MacArthur. I was involved with the L.A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's not a fort. No. And that's this wasn't a fort as much as it was like a logging camp. The fort wasn't a highly

strategic area, but it was about as poorly prepared for actual defense as it could have been. Fort Mackinac was a log fort on a limestone ridge which overlooked the harbor at the southeastern part of the island, which is obviously the important part they're trying to defend.

Yeah. The 61 artillery men were under the command of Lieutenant Porter Hanks. They had seven guns, but only one of those could actually reach the harbor. They're there to defend. So if anybody rolled up there with anything, they only had one gun to shoot at it. They had another,

what, five? They couldn't reach the harbor. So it was cool looking. They already hit them at that point. Troops are already on the shore. And, uh, five? They couldn't reach the harbor. For sure. It was cool looking. At that point, troops were already on the shore. And, yeah. Their other weaknesses, however, were the garrison relied on freshwater on a spring

outside the fort, which meant any siege was all but guaranteed to work if you just waited them out. Yeah. The position was also overlooked by a higher ridge less than a mile away well within cannon range if somebody got one up there which is something the united states military would take they seem to run into a pattern here yeah it turns out the army actually never learns from this yeah

it's only been you know 100 years or whatever but uh so he was completely aware of events elsewhere hanks wasn't stupid he heard rumors of unusual activity at St. Joseph's Island. So he sent a fur trader again, a Michael Doosman, who also was held a commission as an officer in his militia to investigate Doosman set out by boat, which was quickly captured by the advancing British.

And then Doosman apparently very quickly changed sides. Nice. So he learned from Doosman that the Americans at Mackinac were completely and totally unaware of the outbreak of war and not prepared to fight. Robert's force landed at a settlement now named British Landing, for obvious reasons, at the north end of the island, two miles away from the fort. On the early morning of 17 July, they hit the shore. from the fort. On the early morning of 17 July, they hit the shore. They quickly removed all the village's inhabitants from their home,

dragged a six-pounder caiman through the woods to the ridge right above the fort that I just talked about, and fired a single round at the fort. Then they sent a message under a flag of truce demanding a surrender to the fort. I mean,

how quickly do you think these guys capitulated here i would imagine after the first shot yeah that's exactly what happened uh hanks force was surprised and already at a tactical disadvantage the flag of truce had been accompanied by three of the villagers this is something that's actually going to become um kind of uh one of the british can british canadian army Army's main tactics here, lying their ass off and hoping nobody notices. Two of the villagers came up to the fort and told Hanks that he had thousands of native soldiers.

Ooh. And Hanks was starting, you know, he had fought natives. He was immediately aware of being massacred by the natives, so he capitulated about a fight um because this was the 1800s however um hanks and his men were completely paroled from british custody and sent marching south towards fort detroit get away scott fray there's no pow camps here this isn't quite that age yeah and so he just kind of turned around went home uh there was nobody got killed um nothing he just kind of turned around and went home. There was nobody got killed.

Nothing. He just kind of walked away. Like, yep, here's your fort. Bye. Later. Yeah. But the U.S. government wasn't that nice and immediately began court martial proceedings against Hanks.

Ooh. Because clearly none of this was their fault. Like they didn't take blame in any of it. I mean, that's a reoccurring thing. Oh, yeah. I mean, this is actually at this point in history. It's pretty normal if a general runs, they're going to have some issues. And which is kind of insane when you think about it.

Like, oh, you better fight and die or you're going to go to court. Yeah. So at the same time, General William Hull, a Revolutionary War veteran and the sitting governor of Michigan, led an invasion into Canada. So Hull was backed by three regiments of militia

and one regiment of regular army troops. The regulars were reliable and well-trained, while the militia were pretty much worthless. On more than one occasion, Hall would actually have to order his regular soldiers to intimidate and sometimes

beat the militia into marching. Hmm. Yeah. That's actually going to become a pretty common theme here in this war. Militia movement. Gone wrong. Well, it's like it's part of the large mythos of the american militia during the revolutionary war and then nobody really talks about during the war of 1812 because they failed miserably yeah but there's a reason why people like a standing army and not a

whole bunch of farmers with guns yeah i feel like people get that whole militia thing from a movie. Well, I mean, it's part of them. Nobody wants to be the plucky underdog who has lines of regular infantry and blue jackets who engage the British. That isn't fun. That isn't popular. It's got to be the plucky underdog story of a whole bunch of farmers with muskets, and that's not true.

So while this probably sounds really bad, it shouldn't have been an issue. underdog story of a whole bunch of farmers with muskets. And that's not true. Yeah. Um, so while this probably sounds really bad, it shouldn't have been an issue. You see the, the American government said the invasion of Canada was a simple matter, of course, and it wouldn't be much fighting at all with former president Jefferson optimistically referring to the conquest of Canada as quote, little matter of a little matter more than marching.

That's it? Yeah, just walk in there and take it. Yeah, and that may have actually been the case if Hall had given it a real try. But as soon as he heard about the fall of Mackinac, he turned around and hauled ass back to the border without doing much of anything. Hall and his fleeing army found refuge

behind the walls of Fort Detroit, where they were joined by Lieutenant Hank soldiers fresh from the defeat. Yeah. Unfortunately, hiding at Fort Detroit may have actually been an even worse idea than invading Canada in the first place. Hall's army, like every other American army during the war,

be a victim of the government's terrible mismanagement. Not only have they not been resupplied on their abandoned March North, they also had no forward supply set out for them. And they burned through the vast majority of their supplies quickly on the March North. They just assumed that their stores would be refilled by raiding Canadian towns. Towns they never got to raid.

Yeah. Well, Putin, sit around at this time. That'd be sweet. The president of Russia.ussia no he was not oh nice you mean putin i call it putin it's you can't just call it whatever you want it's not what it's called works out fine for me you're wrong though and it's a delicious drunk dish

that you should not besmirch in such a way i'm just wondering if it's around at the time i don't know probably because if it is, then well, they never got that far. They couldn't do anything. Huh? Um, well,

if things couldn't get much worse for a Hall's army, they did because, when they pulled back into Fort Detroit, they found it completely empty. Uh, there was no supplies in there. And, the few depots that had anything in it consisted of just soap and whiskey.

Nice. Which, I mean, I guess if I was going to be stationed out in the middle of the frontier, I would want a healthy supply of whiskey too. Honestly, whenever I go back to Detroit to visit my family, I also like a lot of whiskey to get through it. I would imagine it's probably some Old Crow

made by Dr. James Crow. No, I don't think it was, because if it was Old Crow, this tragedy wouldn't have occurred. They would have succeeded in what they were about to do. I doubt that. But with the power of Old Crow,

sponsor us. You can soar high above the battlefield. That's right. So I assume at this point, Hall's army has probably shit-faced and smelling magnificent from all the soap. But things still got worse. Brock's forces managed to capture

all of his letters and dispatches that he was trying to send out. Nothing's looking good. No, it just, at this point it's like the whiskey's the cool part and the soap is just an add on. Yeah.

I don't know if they had enough whiskey to make this worthwhile. I'm pretty sure they didn't even touch the soap. And the worst part was, um, hall was not conservative in his dispatches. He just let his heart bleed out on the paper. Yeah. His dispatches showed

that one, that morale was terrible. And they feared the numbers at the Indians that were coming and they had no supplies. There's too much soap, not enough whiskey. Yeah. Can we get some bread or something? Also, the idea of the inflated indian

numbers are made worse by lieutenant hanks yeah who was all just told the same thing and it's like dude there's thousands of them yeah holy fuck he's really believing this shit yeah and hall is apparently the most gullible person on earth because he didn't even so much as question as much he just like just falled into a pit of depression and Michigan yeah yeah well he was the governor of Michigan we don't have a good tracker good no you're not sure of the quality of the drinking water though

or the whiskey yeah so uh Hanks made this worse by telling him all the horror stories of the supposed legions of heavily armed natives that flanked Brock's army of soldiers. Here's something that I am unsure of. If Hank actually believed this after seeing the reality of Brock's army after his surrender, he never saw all of Brock's army leading him to assume that he really did have

a huge army in the way or that he was lying his ass off to protect himself from his future court-martial. None of these things are really for sure. Yeah. And Brock would, or, and Hanks would never get a chance to defend himself for reasons we were about to find out. But either way,

Hanks stuck, tried and true to his story that there's a ton of Indians out in the forest ready to kill them. Now back to Brock. He now knew that the American defenders were terrified of fighting his force, so he began to dabble in a little psychological warfare.

He wrote a fake dispatch and then made sure it fell into the hands of Hall's men. The dispatch was then taken to him, which read that he had somewhere north of 5,000 native soldiers, and his dispatch

was supposed to be addressed to the commander of Fort Mackinac, telling him to stop sending native soldiers to him because they could not supply them all. So this guy is basically fucking with him to the point where uh they're gonna run out of whiskey yeah there's not enough whiskey to fix all this yeah um after ensuring that hall had received the

dispatch he sent hall a real message that read the force at my disposal authorizes me to require full of you the immediate surrender for detroit it is far from my intention to join a war of extermination, but you must be aware the numerous body of Indians who have attached themselves to my troops will be on the control the moment the contest commences. He then pleaded for his surrender.

I thought he would send a message like, hey, did you see my last one? Yeah. Was it good? Was it good enough for you? Brock then had all of his militia remind you he only has about 50 regular soldiers in this army he had all of his militia changed into regular army uniforms um why he had hundreds of extra uniforms laying around isn't really noted um

but the troops were then told to light individual cooking fires at night instead of one per unit thereby creating the illusion there's a much much larger army out there rather than a small forceful of drunken militia and fur trappers do you see how many fires we got it's it worked um but you know what that did show is that there was a fucking full british regular army out there uh then that was so then he played another trick. Uh, they marched up to take positions in plain sight of the Americans. Then they would quickly duck behind entrenchments and march back out of sight. They then repeated this maneuver over and over and over again.

Now, if you can't picture this, um, cause it's kind of weird to think about it, how these, um, British and the Indians try to make themselves seem like infinite. Um, how these British and the Indians try to make themselves seem like infinite. But the Americans didn't see the British

leaving their entrenchment. So all they saw was an endless stream of British regulars marching towards the woodland to attack them. Then they would duck behind those entrenchments and I guess kind of like low crawl back to the main camp out of eyesight from the defenders it seems like really weird to try to picture it but like all they saw was people coming into i see like a cartoonish

yeah endless line yeah it's it's like an acme cartoon but it's a military tactic that worked yeah on a bunch of fucking michigan uh is not just Michigan militia. This is Michigan, Ohio, and several regular army units. I'm going with Michigan because they are in Michigan. Well, it's commanded by the governor of Michigan. And honestly, at this point in history, Michigan

does not have... Shit, that goes to current day. Michigan is really good at picking really terrible people to be governor um a little bit later in the future michigan's governor would invade ohio not the same guy he was like 28 what it's a it's a story for a different episode because i it's actually the reason why ohio michigan hate each other. And it now covers college football. I didn't even know they hated each other, to be honest.

It's a regional thing. So the same trick that they carried out for the entrenchments was carried out during meals. They would march up and then dump all their beans into a hidden pot, disappear from view, and then rejoin at the end of the line. It was around this time that the 500 or so members of the Michigan militia, who I should remind you,

the company of their own governor in the battle deserted the fort in the middle of the night. Fuck this. I'm out. I am not voting for that guy again. They went out the back door. Yeah, I guess they weren't surrounded.

They said nowhere to go. Also. I mean, I don't think brock would have stopped troops from leaving because it's in his best interest that there's nobody in there he just wants the fort battles costly i mean at this point i'm willing to bet that uh that brock knew that while his techniques are working he was still going to take tons of casualties assaulting a secure like a a, you know, a fortified position. Yeah.

So it's in his best interest that people desert and he lets them leave. Yeah. I can see that. He shoots at him while he's leaving. They're going to turn around back in the fort. True. Um, yeah.

So these mind games went on until August 15th when Brock's guns finally began their bombardment of the fort. Brock moved his disguised militia who remind you they're disguised as regular army troops, to the fort's rear. While the leader of the native warriors, Tecumseh, had his force parade several times past a gap in the forest where the Americans could see them, all while making loud war cries. Now, just like the Britishish had done he ensured his forces looped back around when they were out of sight making it look like there was an endless human wave of screaming native fighters so everybody's involved yo yeah um the combined effect absolutely scared the shit out of the remaining people in the fort uh like any good

commander with the odds stacked against him, certainly Hall was planning his defense for days and weeks now, right? Not quite. Hall had spent this entire time locked away in his quarters getting hammered rather than preparing any kind of defense. Going through all their whiskey rations.

Yeah, he instead left that little detail to Hanks to do all the work, which, going off of Lieutenant Hanks' previous fort defense experience, this was not a good choice to make. Eventually, with little hope that they did have, had slipped away, morale shattered.

Amongst the men trapped behind Detroit's walls, Hall began openly talking about the impossibility of holding out against the force, which seemingly consists of thousands of British regulars and thousands of native soldiers. And this is like in front of his other officers, in front of soldiers,

just like wandering around drunk as shit, talking about they're all going to die. This isn't something you want to hear from a commander. Officers are kind of there to lie to you. I mean, I don't know how many, um, listeners we have who are not military or don't know that much about the

military. I would like to assume we have at least one. Um, so officers and NCOs are not, they're known as non-commissioned officers. Um, they're not supposed to tell soldiers, uh,

in hopeless situations. That's in fact hopeless. Yeah. They're not supposed to tell soldiers in hopeless situations that it's in fact hopeless. They're not supposed to go down the same mental rabbit hole as enlisted dudes are supposed to. They're supposed to be rallying the cause, rallying the defense, stuff like that. Hall apparently didn't agree with that whole line of thought. He was in the hole with all the other enlisted. Right. So Hull began to fear of a slaughter

when he heard all those Indian war cries. Women and children actually were all in the fort as well because when the British advanced on Fort Detroit, it was pretty common for the settlements in the surrounding areas to pull their citizens back into the fort. They had actually done that when natives had attacked in the past. Yeah. So now they're all trapped in there together.

Along with all of those civilians were also Hull's own daughter and grandchild. Oh, he's got family there too. Yeah. Nice. So you can see why he's a little worried, I guess, if we're going to humanize him a little bit other than just calling him an idiot. So there's a fair amount of legitimate fear that he had.

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't want to fight this army that he thinks he's going to fight. Yeah, this endless army. Yeah, I wouldn't want to fight that either. This endless army of hardened British regulars and people who they think of as like savages who take no prisoners which not the savagest part but native forces generally did not take prisoners bad things happen to people who fell into native warriors hands not a controversial statement to say. No, no. Um,

so his subordinates though, kept up the fight. His spawns urged him to fight on partly from some kind of soldierly honor and possibly because they may have seen through Brock's fake army. Uh, it's not really noted which is which, but against their advice, he whole hosted the white flag of surrender after a siege that lasted a grand total

of one day of actual guns firing. One day? One day. He sent messengers to Brock asking for three full days to agree on terms of surrender. Brock replied that he would only allow him

three hours. If you're guessing that Hall bent over backwards and immediately agreed to those terms you would be right fuck yeah he surrendered without further argument in the end only seven americans were killed in our one day of fighting to include our dear friend lieutenant porter from the last battle fuck that sucks it is bad luck um which I mean, I guess the good news is because he was hit squarely in the face of the cannonball that he wouldn't have to stay in trial. Another one.

Yes. Yes. A cannonball, actually a whole broadside, like hit him and the guy staying directly next to him at the same time, who also happened to be the only sober dudes left committing the defense. Fuck. Bad luck.

So the pitiful answering fire from the guns of Fort Detroit only lightly wounded two British gunners. That is it. Splinters. Yeah. After Hull surrendered, the 1600 Ohio militiamen from his army were paroled and escorted south

until they were out of danger from attack out of the natives. enrolled and escorted South until they're out of danger from attack out of the natives. Um, the 582 American regulars were sent to Quebec city as prisoners of war because they were regular soldiers. Right. Um, Paul himself was brought up on charges of cowardice and neglect of duty,

uh, of which he was convicted almost immediately with a kangaroo court and was sentenced to death. Oh, this is probably the same fate that would have awaited Porter if he hadn't been killed. So I guess a little bit of mercy on him. Um,

before the sentence could be carried out, however, president Madison intervened and instead dismissed him from the army, respecting his prior revolutionary war service, though he would, uh, never serve another day in uniform and would lose all his pensions and everything. missed him from the army respecting his prior revolutionary war service though he would uh never serve another day in uniform and would lose all his pensions and everything um but that is part one of the war of 1812 uh so tune in next week for our conclusion of the war of 1812

um until then you can follow us on twitter the podcast at lions underscore by follow me on twitter at jcast99 follow nick on twitter at nickcastm1 that's right right yeah I finally learned essentially yeah it only took you what 15 episodes oh yeah something like that yeah

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