Lions Led By Donkeys Podcast - Episode 367 - The Order: Part 2

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

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little community. So go to patreon.com slash lions led by donkeys and join the Legion of the Old Crow today. Hello and welcome to the Lions Led by Donkeys podcast. The year is 1974. I have spent the past 7 years since we last left you making a mint and printing, having opened several other branches in the past 4 years of my business and shifting my business to the border of Idaho and Washington. My success, you ask, is out to my shrewd accounting, lax tax laws and my no questions asked policy. You want it printed? For the money, you can have what you want." This all changed one day when a tall, bronze skinned man with a shaved head and a bad attitude walked into my shop.

Hey man, can you print me a thousand copies of this? He asked. I reply yes and he hands me over a pamphlet with a large swastika on the front and a picture of Idaho Senator Frank Church with a knife through his head. Well sir, you see, I have a small political gathering nearby and I am simply practicing my freedom of speech and assembly. And in order to do so, I need to print out all of these pamphlets. And I know 1,000 is a lot, but I'm willing to pay you in crisp $100 bills that are only slightly stained with the ink from the local bank. I am uncomfortable, but he pays in cash. And when Joe hands over the cash, he glares balefully

at the greasy teens I have running the machines. He thinks to himself, what has become of men? When I was his age, I was in the jungles of Naam. Now this guy's biggest decision is which of the local MILF's photo negatives he's going to jerk off to once the shop closes. Joe turns to me and says, I'll be back at 5pm, make sure it's done. It's at this time in Phoenix, Arizona that Nate is finalizing the paperwork to sell his used car dealership. They're simply not a big enough market for well worn slightly damaged trucks with a zero return or repair policy anymore," he says to himself.

Christ, man. I mean, when I got into this business, it wasn't too bad, but I guess there's some shit happening across the border with Fort Wachuka. They're making these soldiers take leave policies and they can't go more than a hundred miles away from the base. And now it's just like, that was my prime market, man. That was my bread and butter. These kids come down here and be like, yeah, hell yeah, I'll buy a truck.

I got my first paycheck. And I'm like, yep, there's nothing wrong with this truck. I guarantee you. And you know, by the time they get back to Wachuka, like they're either happy or they forgot my name or it broke down and they died in the desert. I don't give a fuck. So quite frankly, it's like, it's just honestly, part of me wants to say my problem is just the Mexicans. But you know, it's probably in the Mexicans in the first place, because I've seen these soldiers go across the border, seeing all the dumb shit they do. It's like, you have exactly one shot of tequila and you eat the worm and then you decide that

somehow you got superpowers. You can fight every Mexican. I mean, quite frankly, when you think about cultural differences, these motherfuckers, if aliens came down from earth and had exactly one beer and tried to fight my mom, I'd probably whoop their ass too. So you know what? I just need to get out of this fucking place. I'm going to move to someplace normal. Hopefully not as many Nazis out in the woods. I'm thinking Minnesota heard nothing good good things about it. Excuse me, sir I'm looking for a slightly used Dodge F-150. That's a Ford Ford F-150 with an interest rate slightly above 20% I think I've one of them aliens again quite frankly

But you know what some people really really really just they believe Dodge is the best truck out there when deep down I know it stands for Dick on Dick Entertainment. Can we please get this business salt so I can get the fuck out of here? I want to go to Minnesota. It's paradise on earth. Signing the last of his papers, he looks across his desk at a calendar, his friend bottom of some forests in the Pacific Northwest. Maybe things will be better up north," he says to himself. Fellas, welcome to The Order Part 2. How we doin'? Joe, how do you feel about being a Nazi inane? How do you feel about being an unscrupulous business man? I just have to say I'm really impressed with what did you say Dodge stood for? Just straight

out of the pocket, dick on dick gauged. Just had that prepared. That's a whole thing. November brought this up on a Trashfuture episode about forum posts between American truck brand owners basically calling each other gay. There's this whole Legion library of Alexandria of memes about Ford owners are gay or like Chevy owners are gay or Dodge owners are gay and all the ways in which they call each other like, oh yeah, yeah, Ford truck is great for gay men. They're constantly doing this. It doesn't make any sense. I can't speak for the sexuality.

Neither can I, but they're like, oh yeah, GMC, gay men's choice, Dodge, Dick on Dick, gay entertainment. I can't speak for the sexual orientation of Ford owners, but as my father was a Ford owner, I can confirm they do a lot of heroin. Yeah. I mean, we got on a riff on this episode and started trying to come up with different acronyms for complying the owners of different brands were gay. Ford became fan of rigid dicks and Toyota became tearing open your oiled twink asshole.

It was like the, uh, that meme of, uh, you know, city girls versus country girls. And the country girls one is on like an ATV and saying like, get on bitch. I'm on heroin. Slide over. I'm on heroin. Yeah. I was going to say too, it's funny though, cause I, I forgot about the connection with Washington state. So I was actually born in Washington state. I was born in Fort Lewis, Pierce County. But I hadn't made the association between Washington State Nazis. Obviously talking about the Idaho border. Yes, Eastern Washington, 100%. Eastern Washington and Eastern Oregon, for that matter, for people who don't know, most people only are aware of those states through like Portland and Seattle. But the second you

cross into the East or the case of Washington goes slightly Southwest you run into a forest of Nazis you were not aware existed Yeah, so spokane and then to Boise kirtaleen stuff like that like it's so oh my like It's like hardcore Nazi and also like well not everyone but that is there that presence is there and like really? Hardline separatist Christian dominionists Yeah, that's where there was a congress or a state representative in Washington in Eastern Washington Who was like straight up? plotting to overthrow the government and was involved with adopting a strange amount of

Ukrainian children that This is like before the war. Like he had like, like this quote unquote army of God, like a state investigation found him to be treasonous, but he just kept his seat. He was a reserve reserve officer in the US Army reserves, I believe, not even the Washington National Guard. And he had something where he wanted to carry a sword. Like basically he was telling his wife that like, you have to walk on my left or whatever, because I outrank you or whatever.

Like I can't remember if it's walk on the right or walk on the right. I used to know this in the army, but I don't fucking care anymore. But like the guy was insane, but yeah, that's average elected representative in Eastern Washington slash Idaho. So yeah, yeah, we're going to talk about that today. So I heard we're going to have, we're going to have some fun. Oh yeah. We are going to talk about armies of God, weird guys in the Pacific Northwest.

But when we last left you, Robert Matthews, anti-communist fanatic and Mormon adult Mormon convert had just picked up his first case with the law after spending his teens being radicalized by the newspaper and local cranks. All of his political rhetoric and anti-tax activism had finally reached ahead after conducting the most patriotic of American pursuits, lying on his tax returns. The year is 1974 and Matthews has just turned 21 and is stuck with a 6 month probation for saying that he has 10 dependents and is unmarried and is looking for a new life after his run in with the law, somewhere where real men can be free and the tyranny of the government cannot be found.

Dear taxman you don't understand, I'm just slinging mad dick everywhere I go. Surely you understand the uncontrollable urge that women have when they encounter me. Oh, Nate, Nate, save it. It comes up. So a note on Matthews. He was obsessed with his family's Scottish ancestry and often dreamed of the Scottish highlands, rolling green hills, glossy fields, undisturbed nature for men to enjoy and to conquer and to make their own. He wanted to go on a vision quest to discover his true identity. He had to consume this strange drink brewed by mocks in England, but famous in Scotland for some reason. We'll

never talk about it again. I've never had it before. What could you possibly be talking about? I love that he's doing like birthright for annoying Americans in Scotland Now I gotta be real with you man birthright like like as much as Tom I know you have suffered many a time from fucking Irish Americans in that I am an American or be an immigrant to our media So I fall into but I want to say this because I have never been one of these people I'm like obviously there's things about British culture that interest me. And then I lived in Britain and I realized there are also a lot of negatives and I'm glad my mom left. But I will say this much people who are really into being like I'm English American or I'm Scottish are even

more annoying. There's just fewer of them. But the ones who get become weebs for Scotland or weebs for England are so much worse because Because all they have is like... Think about how little actual English people have to cling to, like Blitz Churchill bullshit. Imagine that, but you're American. You've got even less. You think that your cultural identity is somehow also embodied in Greggs. They got nothing. I'm a big fan of Greggs and the band The The. Wait, there's a... Okay. I'm going to make this really short, but I really hate the idea that there's a band called the fucking ridiculous. Oh, they're really fucking good.

I know I'm not the music guy in this podcast, but get a better fucking band name. This is ridiculous. John Johnny Marr from the Smiths was in it at one stage. But anyway, there's a band called Talk Talk that's really good. There's a band called Was Not Was that's okay. They're not bad. Get out of here with this cutesy bullshit. I hate it. That's not even cutesy. That's not even fucking cutesy. There's a band called Someone

Still Loves You, Boris Yeltsin. Get the fuck out of here. And there's a band called Cry Wang. Finally, something I'm into. So there was only one place Matthews knew that would fit the bill for his new dream of creating the new white American bastion. Now I'm going to ask you guys, if you were a nascent white supremacist, secessionist and anti-communist in the 1970s, where would you move? Idaho. Yeah. If you ask me the same question like in 2025, I would also say Idaho though, to be fair. I would say Washington state though, just because my parents lived in Washington in

the 70s and the stories they told me back then in Washington was way more like Alaska is now. And also it hadn't yet become cool. It was sort of like outdoorsy people, hippies, psychos, right-wing freaks, and then people getting priced out of California. That hadn't really taken off yet. There's also a sleeper choice here, and that is the general thumb area of Michigan. Well known for being full of psychos. Yeah, that is true. I would say in terms of the real... Because when you think about like Mormons you grew up with versus Mormons in Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, it always gets

weirder and more intense in the West. And I know that obviously the answer to the question here is going to be Washington state, but like my parents moved to Washington in like 77 and it, yeah, it was, it's, it was weird away. We'll fucking weirder back then. I'm going to put one correction in 2025. If you were a white supremacist, secessionist and like an anti-communist, you move to Austin, Texas, not to Idaho. That's only if you're a standup comedian. Trying to think of places that are objectively fascist in America. It's like, well, I mean, it's so hard.

I mean, like if you're going for the state, Florida, if you're going for a city, Austin. Again, Austin is only if you're a standup comedian and or Joe Rogan adjacent podcaster. If you're a die in the wall, wall normal like down home American white nationalist, like white Christian nationalist, the so called like, was it the bastion or whatever that Alex Jones and the other people are talking about, you go to Idaho. Colorado also, if you're really Christian and if you're just rich, but you believe all this shit, you go to San Diego, California, the most right-wing city in America. I swear to God.

But guys, what I will touch on something in a second that will prove that Robert Matthews is the Mormon Ben Shapiro, but Washington is correct. And after Matthew's probation, he was so disgusted with the changes he was seeing in Phoenix, Arizona, as the region began to offer more economic opportunities. This brought materialistic people into town who in Matthew's words, and this is the Mormon Ben Shapiro, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words,

Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, Matthew's words, or stay at home to watch the latest brainless sitcom on television. Imagine the Sun Belt when All in the Family was the most popular show on television.

You're like, this is too woke. This is fallen. God has forsaken this land. Have you been to Phoenix, Arizona? I know, Tom, you probably haven't. Joe, have you? Because I have. I've tried my best not to go to Arizona in general. It's too hot. I don't have anything against Arizona other than it is a monument to man's hubris, but it's too fucking hot for me. I'm not going there. The scene in super bad where the really scary tweaker guys try to make, they think that they've found their friend and it's the wrong guy and they make him sing. And then they're like, you guys want to do some cocaine while they're

crying. Like that's so recognizable as guy from Arizona. I'm just saying. And the whole thing was they're like, Hey, yeah, we used to hang out and flag stuff. Like not quite Mickey Mouse voice. Like, yeah, that's so I know enough about Arizona to be like, Jesus Christ. If Arizona in the seventies is too consumerist and fall, I mean, consumers find, but like culturally fallen, then yeah, sorry. This man's insane. He was yearning for the era of Joe Arpaio, but it hadn't happened yet. Hadn't happened yet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Feminism hadn't reached its apex yet and hadn't had to create Joe Arpaio. You know what I mean? Like, but Matthews was not only disappointed in the new

transplants, but he was also disappointed in his friends too. None of them came to his trial. And when he tried to gather funds to get his truck out of the police impound, none of them helped. Right. But I'm going to say this and I realize there's no point in pointing out hypocrisy of these people, but look, I'm just going to just, just, just, just, just, just, just love with it. Just dream with me here for a second. Okay. Your last name is Matthews. You are going to die of skin cancer if you don't get killed sooner than that in Arizona. Who in the fuck are you talking about when you say transplants? I'm just saying, I'm

just saying, do you look indigenous to fucking Arizona, brother? Like, let's just be real here. Well, actually, Nate, something that's very important for part three is that Matthews doesn't look exactly look alabaster white, but we will come back to that. But also it's like you, you're a weeb for Scotland. Do you think that the Scots are the last tribe of Israel and that some of them just got on a boat and crossed the entire, the Atlantic and went to Arizona? You didn't know that Glasgow is the last kingdom of Judah.

We talked about this last week because a very good chance you think Scottish people are a tribe of Israel. But it was at this point that Robbie set his sights on the North, and his Sons of Liberty companion Don Clark helped him reorganise and recruit for the next phase of the Sons of Liberty. Robbie gave him a list of items which each recruit must have, quote, a 9mm pistol, a.308 assault rifle and a 12 gauge shotgun. Then Clark went to each recruits apartment and selected items that they should pawn in order to buy those guns, televisions, stereos and

other mass culture distractions would have to go. When Clark brought Matthews the new recruits, they would sit across the table in front of Matthews with this awesome looking electronic box that Matthews had procured called an E meter. What? How did he stumble upon Scientology? We'll get there. It was supposed to determine whether a man was lying or not, but everyone passed it, including three FBI informants sent into the group. Um, the FBI thought Matthews might've gotten into Scientology because if you remember from the previous episode, he did a soldier and to California shortly and they thought maybe he ran into Scientology.

And this is the seventies. Scientology is really small. I mean, I think is this around the same time that Elrod Hubbard was definitely living in a boat somewhere to escape tax charges? Okay. I'm just, I don't, I've never seen the TV series, but in the book, The Man in the High Castle, there's the whole thing about objects value being assessed in its historicity. A pen was in the room when the Vonsi agreement was signed or something like that, that gives it... Imbues it with historicity.

And I'm just imagining the E meter being used to determine what they should pawn and what the actual value is as opposed to the assessed dollar value, and it's like they measure it against the most valuable object they can possibly imagine, which is a signed copy of LA Woman by the Doors. It was this machine that would be a bust and it would have been more useful if Matthews had have used Magic 8 Ball to test the fidelity of his new recruits and his faith and trust in this bit of tech and his faith and trust in general would be his own downfall. In Spring Matthews went up to Washington to check out some locations to relocate the new versions of Sons of Liberty 2. He arrived in Medellin Falls, a small town of less than

300 people, literally just a hair short of the Canadian border. Rolling green and fresh air was all Matthews needed to see and he was immediately in love with the place. He later described a feeling of giddy joy at the prospect of his own version of the Scottish Highlands. And it would be here that he would stake his claim on America. I fucking hate this guy. We got this guy getting a group of our heavily armed people together, going around with this fucking Scientology tool

to get them to throw out their radios and modern technology and communications and everything. So we got like white nationalist, Kabir Scientologist, Kabir Rouge in Washington. Joe, Joe, Joe, he gets, he gets so much more annoying and so much more worse. But just wait, just wait. We have a worse version of pole pot. Like this one's even more of a fucking dirt. It was in Medellin falls where he would get a job at a local mine.

He informed his family that, you know, I found this new land that I can stake my claim on. At first his parents were kind of a little bit like, is this another one of his dreams? But in his letters, he had a new kind of calm and peace and there was no political rhetoric in them. So they were like, okay, maybe this is a good start, a good new start in a new environment. It'll be good for him. But there was one problem with this. He forgot to tell Don Clark about this, the guy who was running the Sons of Liberty with him. And Don was soon trying to come to grips with a schism within the Sons of Liberty between the Mormons and the non-Mormons. And Clark decided to jump ship to a new Minutemen style group. But loads

of the informants they admitted to Sons of Liberty also joined this group, and pretty soon the federal government had issued loads of subpoenas for his arrest because they had planned to kill an FBI agent. That'll do it. Yeah, that'll do it. I love to have a weird Mormon schism in my white nationalist militia. Everybody's heard of the John Brown Gun Club. I'm now instituting the Joseph Smith Gun Club. But Don was fearful that he would be soon caught by the federal government and he set out for Medellin Falls after a survivalist friend of his tipped him off to where Matthew was holed up. Robbie got Don a brief job at the Bunker Hill Mine, but made plans for his quick

exit. That was okay with Don, so he sold his car to Robbie and used the money the next month to get a fake passport in Seattle. Man, shit was so much cooler back then. You could just, oh, I'm going to sell my car and go buy a fake passport. Done it like Queen Anne Seattle. I don't know in the seventies, but I know that in the sixties for sure, like a lot of things such as driver's licenses didn't have photos on them. Like photo ID could just be paper ID. It didn't have to be photo ID. And there was no like security.

There was no like biometrics or anything like that in passports. No, no, no, no, no. Exactly. It just had to be convincing enough to get you through border security and stuff like that. So yeah. You just had to be really rich and buy your way into being a Cypriot citizen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have a question for you. Where do you think Don Clark was heading to? With a passport? A white nationalist American neo-Nazi with a fake passport. Where do you think he's

Argentina? South Africa. Well, he soon went to Rhodesia. Fuck! Ah, where he joined a white mercenary group fighting the black nationalists and it took British intelligence four years to find him. God damn it. I forgot Rhodesia existed. Yeah Yeah, but one more lost it way to go master race you fucking idiots Medellin Falls is pretty isolated like it's it's about a hundred ish Maybe a little more because of the the terrain miles north of Spokane and not very far from Kirtle in Idaho but like that area in you know, like near the Canadian border. Often called America's Rhodesia. Yeah. So, uh, Clark is often Rhodesia. The FBI are looking for him. They soon found Matthews too,

because they wanted to find Clark because of the whole wanting and plotting to murder a federal agent thing. Yeah, that would bring you to their attention real good. Why didn't the other guy go to Rhodesia? Like this seems like an easy out for white nationalists at the time, other than the whole conscription part. Joe, you will understand very soon. Wow. But the FBI visited Bunker Hill mine where Matthews was working. Uh, luckily they spoke to Robbie's foreman and not the manager because the foreman

hated the government just as much as Robbie and lied to them. Average Eastern Washingtonian mind worker. But, uh, around the same time that all this was happening, our old buddy, admirable Dick Cheese, Richard Gernt Butler GERNT had relocated to Coeur d'Alene lay Richard Gernt Butler, who proudly categorized himself as a racist quote, one who loves his race, uh, thought of himself as not anti-black or anti-Jewish, but as a white nationalist. each race should have its own homeland and the Pacific Northwest with its strong Nordic ambiance was his. This is the British Israelism of Christian

identity coming through. I'm not racist. I just want a land where solely the people who I like and look like can live. It's worth bearing in mind that the Idaho Panhandle and Eastern Washington and Western Montana had barely 1.1 million residents. Fewer than 3% were Hispanic, fewer than 2% were Native Americans, and barely below 1% were African American and even fewer were Jewish. Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a very good reason why there was a very low African American population in the Pacific Northwest. And that is because they were not allowed to move there until shockingly recently. They're always say like, Oh, we didn't have slavery in the Pacific Northwest. Like that is technically correct. However, you also had local law that forbade black people from moving

their and owning property until shockingly recently. Yeah. And also I think that one thing is post integration of the US military that often places where there are military installations brought non-white people in larger numbers and oftentimes people stay if there's jobs or things, reasons to stay there. That is definitely the case of place like Anchorage, Alaska. It's definitely Seattle and then the aerospace industry as well. But this area is not particularly densely populated as Tom just pointed out. There are far more people.

I mean, one of the reasons why the people in Eastern Washington are always losing their mind about Zog and even milder versions of just being, you know, hating the government and shit is because it's one one, one vote per voter per registered voter. They'll never be able to win shit in Washington because there's more people in like three of the major suburbs of Seattle than there are in the entirety of that region. Yeah. The population of Tacoma is larger than them. Yes. They have to compete against 40 dudes with the worst tattoos you ever seen on skateboards vaping at all times voting for a thing that they want versus the

Yeomanry and blood and soil nationalists of Spokane who are also on heroin, but in a more gentle way. Oh, Nate, we, we will get to that. I'm on genteel heroin, sir. Now, uh, in Butler's own words, the cornerstone of any society is faith, and the practice of that faith requires a church. Once a man believes his fight is for God and country, he becomes invincible. It's impossible to limit what he can accomplish if he believes his quest is righteous and his death a martyrdom.

Okay, so he wants to create white nationalist al-Qaeda. Yep. He's beating Osama bin Laden to the punch. Credit where credit's due, I suppose. You literally have quoted something that's in the script. Oh no. Oh no. Hate when I do that. Also last time we talked about Dick Butler being a Christian identity radical, but it's

also important to point out that he was a virulent anti-Semite who grew up from hearing from his father denounce communism in the 1920s and 30s as being the red dragon of the apocalypse controlled by Jews. Man that is so many levels of racist. You expect the whole red dragon thing to be something that someone is saying in the 70s about China. It's like, no, no, I'm taking it back. He's talking about Asiatic Hordes. He's talking about Judeo Bolshevism. Fuck it. They're dragons too. Like this guy has layers, all of them bad. Rob Markman Like this isn't even in the script, but like Butler's father would tell him as a child about how the white army being murdered by the Bolsheviks

in Russia was, the Bolsheviks were a Jewish controlled army in order to take over the Romanov's empire and fortune and use that money then to control the world. We are on like some esoteric levels of antisemitism. All right. All right. It's not good, but I can recognize the lower building. You know, the world building is solid. Yeah, I was going to say, but enough about what Vladimir Nabokov actually believes. But there was also Butler's race fascination. Now I'm actually going to read this bit directly from Flynn and Gerhart's book because when I read it I nearly fell out of my chair. So directly from the book.

In 1941 Fulte, which was an aerospace company that Butler was working for, sent him to Bangalore, India on a contract to overhaul P-25s, P-24s and PBYs for the Royal Indian Air Force. He was given the honorary rank of a Captain, which entitled him to a Valet. The man he hired was named Jaroom, a Hindu who proudly wore the red dot in the centre of his forehead. At night while he polished Richard Butler's boots or did work around his hut, the two men often discussed India's caste system. Jaroom described it as a way of maintaining racial purity. He extolled the virtues taught in the ancient Sanskrit hymns of the Rig Veda. According

to Brahmanism, a precursor to Hinduism, blonde haired blue eyed Indo-Europeans, the Aryans, conquered the Indus Valley 1500 years before Christ. In time they married with the dark skinned people and the caste system was instituted to save the few pure blooded Aryans that were left. Sahib, I have Aryan blood, Jeroom said one warm evening in the hut. And Butler has a really weird accent so I'm not going to try and do it, but he said, I'm going to do an old timey southern racist. Now Jeroom, you can't say that. You're as black as the ace of Spades. Um, but Jeroom insisted, yes, Sahib, I have Aryan blood. I traced it back. The reason I'm

here, the reason I am where I am in the caste system is because it didn't hold. And that started Butler thinking, if this Indian servant knew more about his own race than Butler did about his, he better start studying. And he was so impressed by Jerome's insight that the study of the history of the races will become a lifelong passion. God damn you, Jerome. All my homies hate Jerome. Jerome, you bastard.

Jerome definitely would have paid for Twitter blue in 2025. India also lying too. Damn it, you beat me to it. Jerov is crashing WhatsApp with good morning messages. I love the idea that this guy is driven to become like an ethno-historian, parentheses evil because he ran into someone who was even more radicalized and in the old world kind of way of radicalization

Like we've all met a guy that's like this that he's probably not outwardly racist He's not voting for like neo-nazi parties or whatever But if you ask him like no, here's my Charlie Kelly esque diagram as to why I'm actually white Like Pepe Sylvia race plan. Yeah, exactly. Like we've all met this guy, but like the southern guy's like, perfect. I love this. I need this for me.

This is like the mere image, like inverse of how Varg Vikernes got radicalized when his dad took an engineer job in Iraq in the 70s. Fuck, we found Indian Varg. I hate it so much. Varg went to Iraq. It was like everyone who's not white as a mud race. This guy went to India and was like, actually the Indians are beating us at racism.

We have to close the racism gap. Yeah. We're going to import fucking Indian race scientists to close the racism gap against the Soviet union. That's why they canceled all the H one Bbs because the Indians were beating us out racism the eugenics Cold War I mean, that's not that far off in the sense of like Vivek Ramaswamy The guy who basically was like actually like white killed kids are lazy as fuck and that's why Indian kids are smarter That is pretty much what he said. Yeah that pissed off a lot of racists that sort of like ended his ascent because it's like, you're not allowed to say that actually you're racist,

but you're not the right kind of race. Yeah. Yeah. So you want to play the game. Like I push the game. Is it like, you can never actually say that because like the point isn't actual like the sort of survival of the fittest, or if you want to call it scare quotes, stupid interpretation of the term meritocracy, it is white people always have to be on top, even if they're stupid. And it's like, so cool, man. Well, welcome to the game. It's also important to mention that like at this stage, like in 1941, Butler is already like an Arden street fascist. So like this kind of extra level to it is, you know, just a bit of butter on top of the bread. And I do love it. A couple of years, we'd have

like Nazis going to the same region, doing weird esoteric cult shit looking for Aryan history as well. Yep. There's almost a time where they'd have a weird meet cute over the psycho weird racist valet. So it was this sort of like bigotry that would become the bedrock of his church. Now I will say that the founding of the church of Jesus Christ Christian, try and say that fast it's really hard, is kind of fascinating as is the establishment of a lot of these other fascist breakaway churches in America in the 1970s and 1980s. We're talking near

like Elohim cities, the foundations of Waco, etc. But we can save those for another time. But you might be asking yourself a question. How does a very niche white nationalist church finance itself? A podcast? I mean now, yes. And effectively back then, also yes. Um, Butler was financing his community in church through mail order books and tapes, namely of recordings of his weekly sermons. Fuck, he was a podcaster! So a podcast. Yeah.

Yep. He cooed Joe Rogan on that one. Was he doing gun shows too? I feel like he was a gun show guy. I'll get there. I'll get there. Also as well, books on Christian identity, as well as the usual shit you would see at any tourist trap, except for a unique player

with items such as flags from Aryan nations of the world. You can guess which flags those are. Um, belt buckles. Was it just Rhodesian flags? Rhodesia, South Africa, Belgium. They like Belgium because of the Congo. Belgium they choose. Oh, oh, oh. Wow, that's a weird turn. Like, no, we actually hate Belgians. We just like how racist they are. Fucking brats. Shoulder patches, coffee mugs and t-shirts with the Aryan nations symbols or clan slash Nazi motifs. But you want to know what one of their most popular items was? No, was it Adolf Hitler with googly eyes or something?

Close. Oh, why am I close? Bumper sticker? Uh, one of the most popular items was a small ceramic Klansman with his hand raised in a sacred salute that they sold for $5. Huh. Like a precious moments figurine? Yep.

We have KKK precious comments. It's just a little ceramic clan man in the sheet. What like a fucking like a standup figurine or like a fridge magnet? No standups for figurine. Like a little kind of like tchotchke. So full on like shit your fucking Mima would have in a glass case. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the idea.

It could be an action figure with a little switch on the back where the Hitler sluit is like a Kung Fu chop. That would be way cooler. Kirtlene is just Disneyland for racists at this point. at the back where the Hitler's loot is like a Kung Fu chop. That would be way cooler. Kirtaleen is just Disneyland for racists at this point. It still is in case you're wondering. Kirtaleen is still this way. I had a friend that I met in Hong Kong and she, when she was 11 or 12, her mom, because of medical stuff, had to move. They did leave Hong Kong's climate and they had two choices,

Vancouver, British Columbia, or Kirtleen, Idaho. And they went to Kirtleen. Now imagine you're 12, you grew up in fucking Hong Kong and you moved to Kirtleen. Now Americans and people who aren't from the United States, Americans who don't know Idaho, that might not mean anything. Jesus Christ.

That's like the best way I could describe it is like, it's like, hey, you grew up in New York city, uh, to the age of 12. Now you're going to move to, I don't know, the fucking like Kaliningrad Russia. Or like, I'll try to think of something deeply like you're going to move to the next people's Republic. I'm moving from Paris to Vladivostok. But this was all very good at financing Aryan nations, but their biggest asset was that Butler had established a national network of subscribers to his message, as well as

linking through disparate fascist churches and races all around the country with newsletters. And it was this communication network and their production capacity with printing presses inside Aryan nations and creating mailing lists that would get their message out there. And it's something we'll come back to soon. But back to Robert Matthews. Now he had secured about 60 acres of land and he was working hard on it all the time. The land which he and his father bought together so you can cancel Robert Matthews posthumously for getting help from his parents to buy a home. That's the bad thing that he did.

But it was in the shadow of the hook nose peak and nestled in the woods. It would come to be known as Matthews farm. Robbie became obsessed with the splendid nature that surrounded his new home and he spent all of his free time hiking or working on his land to prepare it for his homestead where he hoped to raise a family. Now prior to his exit to the north, Robbie had promised his parents that his new start would be different and he would stay away from fringe politics and straighten his life out. His parents were gobsmacked by the changes they saw in their son, first during their visits during the summers and then when they eventually moved up there. They started to feel proud of their

22 year old son living out on the last frontier of America. Robbie would start at this point simply going by either Robert J or Bob. So, but also call him Robbie. But Robbie's new life was lonely. And he started to soon find himself longing for a wife, you know, please supply wife. You can be a neo-Nazi, but unfortunately you can't get a state mandated wife because that's communism. So he did what any normal 22 year old would do. And he put an ad in an outdoor enthusiast magazine called Mother Earth News. If that's not the most Pacific Northwest thing ever in the 70s. I knew it was going to be either because dating services were not really common outside of

major cities back then. So it would have had to be, but people put in personal's ads all the time back then. I kind of assumed he was going to do like the Rockwell thing and like snatch an Icelandic woman. Also, funnily enough someone pointed out after he released the last episode that Rockwell's former wife went on to marry the richest man in Iceland. Yeah. He had like $50. Everybody knows him.

There goes Thor, the richest man in our city of 16 people. Racist Bjork marrying the richest man in Iceland. Racist Bjork. Her swan dress has a swastika band on it. I feel bad saying that because Bjork is part indigenous as far as I remember in Iceland. But you know. This one's racist Bjork to see all the Icelandic person you've ever heard of. No, I'm sure you can find there's at least one problematic member of Seeker Rose and that's documented. So it's racist John C. But he used the personal columns in

mother earth, which was circulated around the country to search for a woman to be his bride. His ad said looking for a mature, intelligent woman, 18 to 25, surprisingly, to share my life and land in Washington. So mature. It's like, I want an 18 year old that's mature for her age. She being a Nazi non-negotiable. Speaker 2 Well, at least he's not a libertarian. We can say that. Adam Also, this is the only time that I will say anything in his defense. He's 22. So even by the, by the standard of half your age plus seven, 18 is on the bottom end, but still not doctrinally weird. We're not going to get to white nationalist age gap

discourse on this podcast. If white nationalists took age gap discourse seriously, like it would be their undoing because it is tends to be their undoing legally anyway. So like, but that being said, it's not that weird. If he was 40, it would be fucking weird, but he's 22. So like, whatever. He's also writing personal columns in like an outdoor newspaper in the seventies called mother earth news. So I mean, it's weird, but you know, eco-fascist, volkism, but it was here that he would meet his future wife Debbie. Now I will say the movie lets Debbie off really lightly because she was actually an ardent fascist by the end. She had to have been, right?

Yeah, the movie kind of paints her as like this kind of sympathetic character was like, no, she went on to date other neo-Nazis, one who attacked a synagogue. It's not like you marry a neo-Nazi and just treat it like he's, I don't know, he's got a model train in the garage and it's his hobby. You have to believe in these things with him. Oh, there he goes off in the garage to do his strange white nationalist fucking nation building project. Well, yeah. It's fine. It's his thing. I'm days, you had to like get in the car and drive to like, you know, Nazi club, you know, like.

Where he's a literal car carrying member of Nazi club. I'm going to balance my checkbook in the analog way because we didn't have fucking online banking or the internet. And then I'm going to drive to Nazi club. It's like, you had to be pretty, I mean, I guess you can be like, I'm going to go, I'm going to go bowling, but like, I'm going to go to the Nazi club. I'm going to go to the Nazi club. I'm going to go to the Nazi club.

I'm going to go to the Nazi club. I'm going to go to the Nazi club. I'm going to go to the Nazi club. I'm going to go to the Nazi club. I'm going to go to the Nazi club. I'm going to go my checkbook in the analog way because we didn't have fucking online banking or the internet. And then I'm going to drive to Nazi club. It's like, you had to be pretty, I mean, I guess you can be like, I'm going to go, I'm going to go bowling. But like, if you go bowling a lot and you come home with, you never have any bowling gear, but you do have fucking pickle helps. Like they might be like, Hey, something's going on here.

Hey, the pickle hub might just be, he'd mean he's a loyalist to the Kaiser. It could be a lot of things. Okay. Okay. Okay. Debbie was a born and raised Kansas woman who spent her childhood hiking in the Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado. She shared Bob's love of nature and also, unfortunately, his politics. Her response said, I really feel the most important job a woman can have is to raise children. You can't have a good society unless the home is a decent place." It reminded Bob of his Mormon days and Debbie was the eighth letter he got. Eventually 130 women would respond to his ad. Yeah, that's all of the women that lived in that entire region.

It was all across the Pacific Northwest. He was getting letter from not yet out hot lesbians in fucking, I don't know, Sleater Kinney Road in Olympia, Washington. Imagine what they could have missed out on. You know what I mean? Geez. In his original ad, did he ask to make sure they're white or is it just kind of the assumption that only white women are reading this newspaper? Well, more than likely, but literally the only thing his ad said was looking for a mature, intelligent woman, 18 to 25 to share my life and land

in Washington. But when they met, Debbie would recount he was a little shorter than she normally would have liked. Shout out to short Kings, uh, justice for short Kings. Unfortunately a little shorter voice way too high pitched for my liking. Oh, hold that thought. But he bristled with enthusiasm and when talking about his land, nature and how he saw his future as the patriarch of a large family, great first date chat, she also said that although he was 22, he had the voice of a 13 year old, not just a little, but a childlike voice filled with intensity. Not just a little but a childlike voice filled with intensity Oh I know it might be a little bit forward for a first date

But I see myself as a patriot are holding the sword of the father and the Lord on this land And I will bring destitution to anyone who dares stand up against it And yes, there is a mountain near here called hooknosed peak and I used to remind me of who my true enemy is AHA! Can I come inside you now? I thought I had no game my god like I am I stand before you fully admitting I have no game at all, but this man makes me look like the most charismatic motherfucker to ever walk

the earth. But in true white conservative fashion, they were married in February 1976, a few months later and moved in together into a house that they paid $45 a month for for rent. That's Mormon maxing. All the extra money went into Bob's farm, they both picked up some extra work, Debbie in a small hospital and managing a local apartment complex. Bob then was working as a side gig as a strength coach at a nearby school, mainly because he enjoyed working with the kids, but mostly appreciated having free access to the gym equipment which he

used tirelessly. Mindful of his Scottish heritage, Bob scraped together money for bagpipe lessons every Monday evening for about three months. He and Debbie drove a hundred miles round trip to Nelson, British Columbia to study the instrument with a teacher from Scotland. Bob's goal was to entertain Medellin Falls at midnight on New Year's Eve, dressed in a kilt and playing his music down Grandview Street. Unfortunately his fingers were too short to handle the canter. But it was around this time that Bob got his first recruit for his new America, a stocky Irish Catholic from Long Island called Ken Lough, who owned a small patch of land beside

Bob's. Ken was also a hopeful homesteader and was living in California at the time. And the two met as Ken was visiting his land and the two immediately hit it off. Ken was holding off relocating for when the right job opportunity came up and Bob, ever the genial person, invited Ken to stay for dinner that evening, where he said he would keep an eye out for some work. Literally a month later, in September, Matthews rang Lough to let him know that one of the two local petrol stations had come up for sale and that he thought it could be a good

moneymaker. Lough soon relocated with his wife, Marlene. And unfortunately, in May, 1977, the Bunker Hill mine closed, throwing the area into economic disarray. Bob quickly got another job at Port and Lehigh Cement Plant in August, 1977. And by 1978, Bob's family had decided to leave Phoenix, Arizona for some reason to move in with Bob. They had spent the past while coming up and down, renting a small house nearby, but not ready to make the full commitment. Johnny and Bob's brother Lee helped him on the farm, clearing the land and building his dream log cabin. They also took Bob's older brother Grant out of the institutional care that he was in. If you remember in the previous episode, Grant, a diagnosed schizophrenic, was placed

in institutional care by his family. And that really wouldn't last that long. He lived in the apartment Bob's parents had been renting previously but soon had to be re-institutionalized because he flooded the apartment because he ran out the house and down the street with nothing but a towel on his head because he could hear voices while the water in the bath was running and it flooded the entire apartment. Another time he trashed the apartment because he thought his radio was picking up voices from a nearby river. So all around really good and caring family, I suppose.

In his defense, the radio was picking up voices. That's how radio works. Ken Loft soon followed Bob to working at Portland Lehigh, selling the petrol station to a local pharmacist and the two became like brothers. But there was always something strange about Bob that went over Ken's head almost always. Bob was a massive racist. One time while, while the Lofts were hosting a Christmas party, Ken put on a record just to entertain people. He put on a Nat King Cole record and Bob excused himself from the room and went to stand out in the freezing cold rather than listen to the music. My ears are too racist for this.

Yeah. There was other signs as well. His parents thought the same on a weird afternoon at a local county fair in Cusick. I they were wandering through the exhibits with Bob and Debbie they came across a white woman armed with a black man which wasn't unusual for the times but wasn't a hugely common sight in the area. And Bob stopped dead in his tracks and gave the couple a disgusted look. His mother was like super fucking embarrassed and it reminded her that you know, even in his John Birch days and during the tax protesting, her son was never expressed any racist sentiments. As a kid, one of his best friends in Marfa, Texas was another black kid and she didn't know where this was coming from. But in the quiet of his own home, Bob was developing

a peculiar set of reading habits. Bob abhorred mainstream culture. He had previously told members of the Sons of Liberty to sell their radios and their TVs. And he didn't own one himself, believing to do so would be polluting his mind. The top three TV shows at the time were Laverne and Shirley, Three's Company and Happy Days. So Bob hated the Fonz, I guess? Fair enough, I will say. The Fonz kinda sucks. Maybe he was that old timey racist where he's like, no, Italians aren't white. Like that Fonzarelli can't be hanging out with those nice white kids.

But it was during the winter nights when it was impossible to work on his farm. He would sit at home by the fire or in the sitting room or in the kitchen reading books. But his interests had turned away from his previous fascination with history and towards politics. Do you want to have a guess what one of his new favorite books was in 1978? Turner Diaries. Turner Diaries. Which way Western man?

Oh, okay. That's not like a pleasantly surprised oh, I just thought he was going to be much more, you know, normal. Yeah, but much more normal for his type of guy in this era, you know? But we're going to get to the Turner Diaries. Oh, I know we are. I know we are. But this like really insane racist screed that is Which Way Western Man deeply influenced Bob. And he felt the pull of the ideology that confirmed his own suspicion that the white man was being displaced in his own land by Jews, blacks, and what Christian identity would call mud people. Oh, so he, what you're telling me is he was a huge fan of Harry Potter.

Yep. RIP pop Matthews, you would have loved Harry Potter. You would love JK Rowling so much. But over the next year from 1978 to 79, Bob would subscribe to a network of underground newsletters all filled with far right wing rhetoric ranging from survivalism manuals, racially charged news, opinions from some of the Christian identity movements, biggest thinkers and outright white supremacist propaganda. One piece of media that Bob read that he found a revelation was a book recently published called the Turner Diaries.

Woo. We're back to the classics. And by classics, I mean racist fan fiction for people with a fifth grade reading level. So Joe, since you are the resident expert, I have read the Turner diaries. I now own a copy of the Turner diaries. Yes. I have also read the Turner diaries. I used to own a copy of the Turner diaries that I stole and I have since ditched it because I'm pretty sure I've lived in a few countries where owning it is illegal. So to make a very long story short, The Turner Diaries is the... It charts the whole fantasy

of the race war. You should not read it. It's a horrible book. It's not even fun to read. It's very poorly written. Yeah. Like I said, it's written for someone with a fifth grade reading level. And I mean that. It's not even interesting to read if you want to learn more about this. You've heard things from it. Like you've heard racist on the internet probably say like the day of the rope. That is from the Turner Diaries. And if I remember correctly, the whole thing ends with our titular main character ending the race war on the side of the racist via suicidal nuclear bombing. if my memory serves

correctly. Yeah, it's an absolutely psychotic screed. It was written by a guy under a pen name and for a long time he managed to remain anonymous, but he got ye olde doxed a while ago and he's still that way. I believe he died recently, but yeah. He died in 2002, I think. Cut a long story short, Turner Diaries is set in a future where the government through a series of raids has confiscated the weapons of every American. And it follows Earl Turner and his organization as they attempt to overturn the Zog Zionist occupied government by force of arms and deposing the government and establishing

a white America, the group formed of small cells and acts stochastic terrorism, executing registrators. This book has influenced everything since it came out. It also like outlies like, you know, attacking infrastructure and things of that nature, which is certainly something we are actually seeing happen and like Adam Waff in circles before they all got, you know, party van. Yeah. But to skip forward in time a little bit, by the end of 1981, Bob and Debbie would have a child, although not exactly how Bob would have preferred after suffering several miscarriages over the four years of their marriage to date. It became apparent that the couple would not be able to conceive a child through natural methods and instead

opted for adoption. That same year, Ken Lough and his wife Marlene would bring their second child into the world and Bob and Ken would spend a lot of time talking about fatherhood and raising families. Ken had come to trust Bob's astute knowledge on many things and this was no different. Once again, Bob doesn't have the best opinions. It was then when discussing the downturn in the local economy, politics, weather and everything in between that Bob was constantly relating everything back to their children. And then he said, uh, a few words that I think we're all going to be familiar with. We have to secure a better future for our children. Never good. Would you hear that? Uh, you know, the 14 words,

so to speak in a way we're going to talk about the guy who invented the 14 words is an expert. Oh, fuck. Right. Cause the, cause of the, the, the church. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I remember this guy, but Matthew said to love, it's up to us. The government works against us. The way it taxes middle-class whites into submission. We've got to stand up for our children's rights. Look at all the outsiders that Seattle city lights has brought into work at the dam. Why there are families just here getting by that could use that work. What's left for our children? What will we be able to leave them? Ken trusted Bob's intelligence so much that he didn't question it much. Two months later, in February 1982, Bob came to Ken very excited about something and told

him that he'd found a new church and he planned to have his adopted son Clint baptised there. I think you can kind of guess what this church is. Yes. I don't remember what it's called, but I am, I do know what its symbol looks like and I'm seeing it in my head. Yep. So they visited Hayden Lake, the church of Jesus Christ Christian. All these churches have very, very strange names. Bob had said to Ken, I found a church about three hours away that preaches good news about the white race. It's a place for white families, white Christian families.

I'd like you, Marlene and the babies to come. And when they visited Aryan nations, Lough was introduced to Richard Butler. And although he didn't consider himself a racist, he was generally a kind of conservative guy but not on the racist side. When the talk of affirmative action making white people second class citizens, he completely bought in. Thinking of his children simply being disenfranchised because of the colour of their skin, simply put, Ken Loeff was a fucking moron. I fucking hate people like this. This is like it's so common these days where anybody that sees any kind of law or

regulation to try to push a form of equality, which we should have under the law anyway. But in reality, we don't through education, through economic means, through through anything like, oh oh no, this is discrimination against me, the people who have everything. We don't want to share. And him forcing me to share in an equitable manner is the same as white genocide. But it kind of doesn't stop there. At the end of their visit, Loft's two sons and the Matthews, Clint, were being baptized as Aryan warriors by Butler. And there is an irony here because Loft was raised a Catholic who had a Jewish man as his best man at his wedding. And now

his kids were being baptized by a man who thought that Jewish people were literally the spawn of Satan and that Catholics were sheep controlled by a Zionist conspiracy. The latter day Church of Hitler. Yeah. You know, watching people just kind of like awe-shucks-G-whiz their way into becoming Timothy McVeigh is like, in a way more embarrassing than the origin story of Timothy McVeigh himself. Yeah. But the ironic thing is that Matthews only really returned a handful of times to Curlelein like physically, more for the fellowship than the religious

doctrine. Matthew's believed in God, but at this stage had assembled his own teleology by borrowing selected tenants from a menu of faiths and from Odinism. He wasn't very impressed with Richard Butler, but the 20 acres out by the lake made a good place for him to meet young men who believed as he did. Essentially what he was doing was white supremacist cruising. Oh, that is, that is a really disappointing way to meet men in the woods. I must say you can't, you can't go to Hampstead Heath and go dogging. Uh, can't go cruising in Hampstead Heath. Just go by a, go join a neo-nazi.

It's dawning on me. Like we've all seen the youth pastor approach, like you know who's really, who was really rebel spinning the chair backwards, our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ. He's doing that, but with like cruising, he's like, you know, really dominates our race. Spins the chair out.

Let's wrap a little bit. Oh my God, Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong, but ugh. But it was in 1992 that Bob Matthews would start to build his White American Bastion in earnest. White American Bastion is what he conceptualized the future as. He placed ads in right wing independent newspapers, hoping that through sheer force of numbers, if he attracted enough people to his cause and his land, they could influence the politics and governance of the region. There you go Joe, your commandeer has paid off.

This is also going off of white nationalist cruising. This is just the scene from Always Sunny where they make the arm thing but it looks like a dick because they're looking for friends. It's like no no we're going to hang out in the woods, we're not going to fuck each other in the woods. This is not for dogging. It kind of reminds me of like the libertarians who are like, let's all move to New Hampshire and make it libertarian. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It was like the liberty or death movement or whatever is called taxation or death movement. This is something that is still going on in the

Pacific Northwest, specifically in like Idaho and other communities where they're trying to change the demographics to get not just white people, because these areas are obviously demographically overwhelmingly white, but specifically white nationalists into city councils, really weird offices of the government to influence things. And this is actually how, I don't know if this church exists, but there's form of neo-nazis that like you were talking about together is into own ism That in an effort to cover their tracks and not look like such Nazis like no no we we are the the asatru Assembly, you know, we're heathens Pagans who simply want to you know recapture our northern European culture. Oh, oh, by the way, no, no black people are

allowed in the church. It's like a, once again, to bring it back to is always sunny. It's when Frank designs the new logo for the bar. And it's just for F's on the white and red flag. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wearing the Nazi uniform. Not because I am actually a fascist. I just love hitting DL trade. That's it. That's the only Hugo boss dude I could afford. But one ad he placed in a publication called spotlight, the most widely read of these sorts of publications and it's classifieds are very interesting. It was full of a broad spectrum of goods and services. Mail drops, gun silencer parts, Nazi paraphernalia and false identification instructions were sold alongside.

Poetry. Lay trial subscriptions. Lay trial is an alternative pseudoscience treatment for cancer, dating services for patriotic Christians, and most importantly, automotive devices to dramatically increase gasoline mileage that were being suppressed in the free market. Fuck yes. I love this shit. This is kind of like a dweebier version of the classifieds of soldier of fortune magazine. I mean, all of them end up in Rhodesia in one way or another. Whether you're answering the classifieds

in Soldier of Fortune or you're attaching weird magnets to the side of your 80s car for gas mileage or whatever it is. Like you're all ending up in Solace Berry at some point. The Jews don't want you to know about magnets. Fucking magnets, how did they work? ICP fucking brought the knowledge of people. They were the modern Prometheus.

Yeah, that's why they have to be punished constantly by still being at ICP. Yeah, exactly. So that would imply that God is on the side of the fucking conspiracists because he's constantly punishing them by making them wake up as the members of ICP. Because God's a twisted fan. But Bob received a lot of responses to his ad and to each he sent a short pamphlet he made each printed by Aryan nations on their own printing press. The pamphlet read, onward the course of progress takes our people onward to the stars. Under a white American bastion banner was drawn two brave looking white men, one a viking warrior, the other

a caped pioneer, facing each other in the pine forest. Okay, so we're just getting to the foundations of Elon Musk here. White nationalism must take to the STARS! It gets even more fucking stupid. I fucking hate all these idiots. It went on to say, look into the window of your mind, look into the window of your mind and picture a vast expanse of mist-shrouded, heavily forested valleys and mountains. It is early morning and you stand at the edge of a large meadow. Suddenly, the

powerful double notes of an ancient horn shatter the quiet and before your eyes many people start to assemble in the meadow. Your heart leaps with joy because every face in the meadow is a kindred of yours. You see an elderly white woman holding the hand of an inquisitive little boy. His dark brown hair, the colour of the rich earth and his green eyes, the colour of the grass." I have read like illicit gay correspondence from the eighties that people who were in the closet send each other that are less kind of homoerotic than this. Like this guy wants to fuck the land. I also would say to that the dark brown hair and green eyes is sort of like you do realize

that you would be like Hitler would be like, can you do some testing on that motherfucker? I don't think he's area I So imagine that intro like the the fog the rolling hills and then you hear a voice Piercing through all of it. It's like you want to hear my back Guys, can you get me my stilts so I could play the bagpipes, please? Well, I'm not tall enough to play it but I'm gonna lead you to Christian dominance the ancestral horde is the worst Way to describe a pair of bagpipes and I say this and I mean I meet it I know we have a lot of Scottish friends a lot of Scottish listeners

There's the worst fucking instrument I've ever heard of my life I disagree with you Joe It's this fucked up sheep stomach with some holes, like some tubes sticking out of it. You wanna hear my shrieking stomach of wind? Hey guys, I brought this new Scottish music for you to listen to. I hope you like the tones of Gabber.

Robbie goes to Scotland seeking out true Scottish air and music and comes back very confused by the first two Simple Minds albums. I don't understand why they have so many computers involved. I'm very passionate about the music of Aztec Camera. He just goes to Scotland and is just like supremely confused by Rangers versus Celtic. Is being baptized as like a Scottish weeb. You have to go get glassed by your friends at the pub ceremonially glass like a nighting. But what they're doing is like the, you know, the Nazi version of like giving themselves scars. Yeah. They're

glassing each other. They're stealing valor. I don't know about Scottish valor, but I feel like Joe, you and I have been, we've been forcibly given communion to be Scottish. I don't know what you're talking about. That never happened. Yeah. I don't have any memory of it either. Actually. I actually genuinely don't. I mean, I know it happened, but I have no idea what and I will never find out because I will never listen to that recording. No recording. At this point, Bob had become a really deft preacher of his ideology and his dream. He had a way of courting interest by not lecturing those he could sense weren't interested, but instead he would slowly build a rapport with people and then slowly slip in bits of

information to test the waters of the people he would meet. But behind closed doors, when he would come home from work, he would rant and rave for hours to Debbie about his coworkers and others, about how they were selling out the white race and how they had been lulled into a false existence by modernity and all that came with it. And this is how you know Bob Matthews is a fucking loser. At one point, one of his coworkers at the plant

put a poster up of a nude black woman on his locker. Bob incensed tore it down. I don't want to look at these black titties. My eyes are too racist for this. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not gay. I'm just racist. Like you know, someone who's working in a cement factory in fucking Northern, Northern Pacific Northwest is like, is he gay or something? He doesn't want to look at some tits. Soon people began to respond to Bob's ads in earnest. Charles Austraud, a money room supervisor in San Francisco, working for Brinks Armored Car Depot corresponded with

Matthews and opined that he had been passed over for promotions in favor of black people. Matthews in his charitable nature sent him back $50 and said he hoped it would help. Two more men, William Soderquist and Richie Kemp, soon entered Matthews orbit. Soderquist, like Matthews, was a young bircher at 11 and at 16 had joined William Pierce's National Alliance. So there's like a whole cadre of these psycho 10 and 11 year olds out there. There's more than one now. And now they're just watching Andrew Tate on TikTok. But anyway, Richie Kemp, a friend of Soderquist's, was helping Kenloff nearby Brand Cattle and

both of them were in their early twenties and very, very impressed by Matthews. But despite this, not many people were coming to Matthews farm. Through Aryan nations, Matthews. But despite this, not many people were coming to Matthews farm through Aryan nations. Matthews would meet some others who would become increasingly important to what would come namely Randy Dewey, Denver, parmenter, and most importantly, Gary Yarbrough. Brandy Dewey, Randy Dewey is a name now. Okay. That's a king of the hill character right there. Yeah. Yeah. Also RIP John Redcorn. Yeah. Horrible news. Was murdered in a homophobic attack. Fucking horrible. But these three men all came from different backgrounds. Yarborough was a common petty thief and a criminal with a couple of kids in tow who found a new meaning in life through Aryan nations and was radicalized

through mail order tapes and books from Christian identity groups while he was serving time in prison for burglary. It's a whole other thing. Aryan nations had a massive prison outreach program where they tried to radicalize prisoners. Yeah. I have a hot take, which is, uh, if you ever are lost in life and you find your way through white nationalist Christian identity, suicide is a better option. You should just kill yourself. As Ozzy Osbourne said, suicide is painless. There you go. Randy Dewey was an intellectually bright Air Force veteran who found Baptist churches after

the army to be a spiritual dead end and was seeking more development. Denver Parrmenter is interesting and there is some conspiracy theories about him, but he was the most politically developed of the three. Born in West Germany to a career Air Force officer, he moved in with his mother in Florida at a young age after their divorce. Eventually joined the army, was stationed in Turkey post army. He developed a bit of a drinking problem and worked for the youth for Reagan group in 1980. I mean, this is just a blueprint of how to absorb the most amount of Hitler particles

that you possibly can. And I also feel like we've just encountered being Americans of our age. Like this is slightly older than us obviously, but like we've encountered so many people who like had this life trajectory. But Parmenter and Dewey would become friends while living in a college town in 1977 and over time would develop ideologically while playing darts and drinking beers. All three would end up as part of Richard Butler's security detail for Aryan nations. All right.

They had to develop this political ideology over beer and darts because Counter-Strike hadn't been invented yet. Can you imagine how much like, like we talk about how it's worse now, but like, yeah, so many of these guys wouldn't have formed paramilitary organizations if they could have just had their time wasted on only fans. Oh, Nate. Oh God. Hold that thought. What? Not in this episode, in the next one. Oh boy. Bob would come to know these three through Aryan nations, but it was in 1983 that Bob would really come to the fore of the radical right during an Aryan nations rally in Spokane, Washington in memory of Gordon call a North Dakota farmer who had

been shot dead by us marshals. Of course these things happened in Spokane. That's all I'll say. That might be the most Spokane thing to have happened in this episode so far. Um, Kyle, his story was his farm had gone into debt due to several bad harvests and he had been radicalized by Christian identity survivalist camps against the banks as he saw as corrupting the land in defiance. He stopped paying his taxes. I do respect this man for one thing and that is being so involved with the, the Afrikaner and Rhodesian movement that he was also a farmer that was murdered. Yes. You know,

I think we have a long history of people who are murdered as bore farmers and people who are murdered because they are spiritually poor farmers. But soon the federal government got wind of his training and his weapons and set out to arrest him during a training exercise with one of his survivalist groups riding Riding with his son, Yorivan, they spot the Marshall's approach. He named his son Yorivan? Y-O-R-I-V-A-N. All right, we're safe. This isn't on us. That seems like some Lord of the Rings Viking shit.

Yeah. Not on us. Our medians, we're all good. But they spotted the Marshall's approaching and took position behind their car and got ready to defend themselves. Um, the marshals accidentally shot Yorovan, the large songs at rifle stock, but Kyle thought they had shot his son. So he opened fire on them with his Ruger mini 14 automatic automatic rifle, killing two and wounding four. It then took four months for the government to track him down after they fled the standoff. When the marshals did track him down in Arkansas, his hosts, who were fellow survivalists, gave

themselves up immediately when the house was surrounded, but Kyle remained inside with his Mini 14. He shot and killed one agent and held the rest off until a smoke grenade was dropped down the chimney and the house suddenly went up in flames. I hate when the FBI does that. That is not the last time this will happen in this series. It's not even the last time it'll happen in the annals of American white supremacy. But Gordon Cal died engulfed in flames and had thus become a murder for the cause against government tyranny and the IRS. And it was behind this rallying cry that

united the Aryan nations in June, 1983, A protest of anti-fascists had been organised to protest Butler's speeches and they bristled against the blockade of Nazis in the park. Matthews then defiantly broke rank from the rest of the security detail and stood out in front to challenge the protestors on his own. And he was like arguing with them, shouting at them, Nate do you want to take this? Yeah, you know people fought and died for this country to protect our right to free And he was like, arguing with them, shouting at them, Nate, do you wanna take this? Yeah. You know, people fought and died for this country to protect our right to free speech. Some of them were definitely fighting against Nazis, and I think that was bad.

But in this case, we are being oppressed. We deserve our free speech to be protected. We do not deserve to be oppressed by Antifa. The Black Bloc is making me even shorter than I already am. It's really uncomfortable. Eventually I'm going to fit inside a shoe. No one's going to respect me anymore. You've got to stop it.

I'm really on well guys. I'm sorry. I'm trying. This act emboldened the other security detail who linked arms with Matthews and pushed back the protesters. It was plain to see for anyone that was there that Matthews had the makings of a leader. And this impressed Randy Dewey, Denver parmenter, Gary Arbrow, and a recent convert named Bruce Pierce, who had already been there. No relation

to William Pierce. I will say it's probably really easy to impress a guy named Randy Dewey. I don't know why, but I feel like he's easily impressed. RG Randi Dewey like is a name that has like large sun energy. Yeah. He's off-coded. RG Randy Dewey and Bruce Pierce sound like you'd see photos of them and they'd have like Bob Seeger hair and beard wearing plaid shirts tucked into jeans. Like I just know enough about the Pacific Northwest to know that type of guy. Or like they were like members of Billy Joel's band in the seventies or some shit.

But it was a month later at the Aryan world Congress, all of the nations leading racist there, Richard Butler, Jim Ellison from the covenant sword and the arm of the Lord, someone who we will come back to in the next episode. David Lane, who used to be part of the KKK in Denver and is also credited for inventing the 14 words. He opened a church at one point. Yeah. All these guys open a fucking church. They're all there and they were all thinking about the future of the white nation. And it was during the Congress that Butler hosted private leadership meetings to push his theme of unity.

This was communicated through, you know, newsletters and also as well in the 80s, Aryan nations would develop their own Internet. So these people are like ahead of the curve. If there's ever been a Congress more likely to be catered by golden corral, I've never heard of it. But at one session in arian hall and arian nations, this is their big meeting hall. 13 men representing Texas, Montana, Michigan, Arkansas, California, Pennsylvania, and North Dakota discussed the prospects for a white

homeland. So Joe, are you happy that the Michigan racists have shown up? Oh, I'm not even a little bit surprised. Michigan is racist as fuck. I mean, we've me and native often talked about this on the show where like Michigan was never in the Confederacy much like Indiana. But if you go, you know, say, let's say slightly north of Detroit or really in any direction outside of Detroit, you'll see you know, say, let's say slightly north of Detroit or really in any direction outside of Detroit, you'll see Confederate flags, um, shit like that. Like the Michigan militia was famously a thing, uh, loosely kind of tangentially connected to the Oklahoma city bombings. Like Michigan is fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the upper Midwest

has this. I mean, I made my joke in the early part of this episode in the skit At the start about Minnesota because outside of Minneapolis like there's a lot of Nazis in Minnesota Like this area of the US Minnesota Nazis So yeah, it's it's just and at this time I think like the kind of long tail of reaction to the civil rights movement like the stuff that led to Reagan like a lot of its What manifested in Washington politics is the the polite version of the really really racist fucked up segregationist white nationalist shit It's still there, but it you know it really gets more powerful in Michigan

I should reach its apex. I think in a lot of ways in this era because Then it eventually it led to these confrontations like armed confrontations and such. But it was after the meeting, a sheet of paper was circulated through the group so they could all write down their mailing addresses. That seems like a bad idea. I mean, I'm not one to stop a criminal in the middle of auditing them. Like this is Striger Bell, or you taking notes in the middle of a criminal fucking conspiracy type shit. You know? Well, Joe, I just got to say, uh, you are in agreement with a Jim Ellison, the leader

of the covenant sword in the arm of the Lord. Well, yeah, he was running a terror group. Oh, wait until part three. When we talk more about the covenant sword in the arm of the Lord, there's some great stuff in there. But Jim Ellison at the end of the meeting, after everyone had written down their mailing address, held up the piece of paper and said, I want you all to realize that each of us in this room have just committed treason. It's worth noting that Ellison was a bit eccentric. He had anointed himself King James of the Ozarks. Famously, he would do a thing in the eighties that would

split the covenant sword and arm of the Lord. But I'm not going to talk about that now cause it's so fucking funny that I saved it for the next episode. It's a covenant sword in the leg of the Lord. You know, the schism. Yes. But, um, despite all this, his gunsmiths were among the best in the movement and his survival training courses were top notch. So he was humour despite the fact he was a fucking weirdo. Like being called a weirdo among all these people says a lot. That's an indictment of your character for sure. Yeah. But at another meeting in Butler's house, a group talked obliquely about how it was time for action to establish an Aryan homeland, but

no one seemed ready to act. That was one of Matthew's greatest frustrations. He wanted action. And by August 1983, Bob would make his own moves. He hired a builder from Aryan nations to construct a 20 by 35 foot outbuilding on his land to accommodate visitors. As well as to act as a barracks for things to come, soon there was talk of fundraising for an American Bastion. Matthews believed that they needed to be self sufficient as well as generous. The fight was not just here but everywhere and other groups needed support too. He was generous beyond measure, often donating whatever he could to those he deemed in need of help. And he was trusting

to a fault and hired many, many men he knew to come and help clear timber on his land that they could then sell for profit and they could all keep the cash. And he would trust people who maybe he shouldn't have. Parmenter Dewey, Yarbrough, Pears, Kemp, Soderquist and Lane all saw Matthews as the real deal. And soon Bob would convince them that Pastor Butler was only full of lavish talk but very very little action. And what they needed was action. They would raise money for the right wing and they would bring about change. Soon Bob would be leading discussions on the Turner Diaries, Essays of a Clansman and The Road Back.

The fictional Earl Turner's first diary entry sums up Bob Matthews desire at this point, September 16th 1991. Today it finally began. After all these years of talking and nothing but talking, we have finally taken our first action. We are at war with the system and it is no longer a war of words. And that is where we will pick up next week on part three of the order. That is a podcast. Gentlemen, how are you feeling? You guys want to join my book club? I have a bronze age illness that I caught from my daughter. And I have mouth sores like nobody's business. I've been fighting through them this whole recording to bring you Mickey Mouse voice.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to do it now. The pain has come back. But I just want to say I'm feeling great. Weirdly thriving. Because I spent so much time here. My parents actually bought land in Harstein Point, but then sold it off the coast of Washington, a different part of Washington. But their plan was originally to live there and I could have been like weird Pacific Northwest forest rat kid. I could have grown up and I would definitely have way worse tattoos and probably be on heroin. But beautiful part of the country. But it's just so strange because it's like, yeah, thinking back, I know this area well

enough, all these markers, the way these towns look... Anytime you look it up on Google, I've been to so many small towns like this in the Pacific Northwest. It's just like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. There was the time when all the freaks moved out there and most of them never left to just do Nazi shit. It's depressing. Yeah. I mean, for people who have stuck around for this show for a very long time know that the show actually started in the Pacific Northwest. It did. I lived in Washington state for quite a few years. And yeah, now this is surprising that

this is starting in Eastern Washington. My brother lives there now in Seattle. So like, yeah, I mean, I need to go visit and actually get a chance to meet my nephew. And as part of me, it's like, oh yeah, go, go. Maybe the woods won't claim you this time, but they still want to. Eventually they will. The only thing that's really surprised me so far now that we're two parts in is that there's so many weird John Bercher children floating around. And nowadays it doesn't really surprise me due to the fact that kids can be indoctrinated without ever leaving home, but there were quite a certain level of oomph of evil hood spa, if you will.

I would also say nowadays too, that if you were holding some kind of like radical extremist meeting, if like a little kid showed up, like that would, most people would be like, this has got to be like the cops, right? This is a sting. This is white nationalist to catch a predator, also known as being a white nationalist. The government is like a schoolyard bully that takes too many of my candy. But back then an 11 year old could just rock up to a John Bercher meeting and all of them like, this is fine and normal.

Welcome child. Don't worry guys. But not for weird sexual reasons, but for weird ideological reasons. Don't worry guys, I'm just like you. I've got my dad's gun. I brought it to school and no one cared because it's the 1970s. Oh God. Yeah, it gets weirder from here. Like, um, at this point, like the schism between like Aryan nations and Matthews is like growing, like considering around this time, Richard

Butler kicked out his second and command out of Aryan nations because he spat on a black child in town and told them you are condemned to sin. And Butler was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're going to do this quietly. Don't do shit like that. Um, and it also just like the next two parts are just an example of the measure of human stupidity. When you fully believe something like there are so many points where they could be like, is that guy a cop? Is that guy a cop? Is that guy a cop? Do these E meters work? Everybody grab onto my Coke cans. Oh God. I love that Scientology ended up in the Mormonism. Oh, you got Scientology

by Mormonism. Oh, you got more but is it when my side to me too, because you keep Richard, Richard Gert Butler, white supremacist,ist not Richard Butler lead singer of the psychedelic first but I suppose when you're telling people to become a neo-nazi love my way could actually be about it it's you know that's a load bearing ghernt we have going out here yeah exactly exactly because if Richard Gert Butler had written pretty in pink it would have been played on the fucking bagpipes but uh fellas uh, fellas, that is a podcast. Joe, are you excited for the arrival of the Michigan Kung Fu Nazi with the lie detector in part three? I am now. Yes. I would love to meet our next governor. But fellas, that is a podcast. You host other podcasts. I hope beneath skin show about the

history of everything told to the history of tattooing. Joe, this is the only podcast you host. I don't in fact host books. Maybe you should, maybe you should. Uh, Nate, I host trash future. I'm the producer and sometimes cohost of trash future, a podcast about the tech industry being bad and also British politics, Britain in general, Brit vibes. I'm the producer of Kill James Bond. I'm the executive producer of No Gods No Mayors. And I'm the cohost and producer of What a Hell of a Way to Dad. Recent review came in for What a Hell of a Way to Dad

saying that it's riveting dad content. A person hadn't listened for a while. And like all they talked about was fucking installing shelves. It's incredible. This is my shit. You have no idea how much I love it. So that's what it is now. It's me and Francis talking about shit. You have no idea how much I love it. So that's, that's what it is now. It's me talk,

me and Francis talking about the best way to install shelves. But that's just me and Joe like on fucking lines that my robot's talking for 20 minutes about. I know I put it out, you know, two days ago and yes, I, I listened to you. I was like, yeah, I mean, cause I used to go obviously with the army and shit. I know a lot about weightlifting from doing it, but don't do it very regularly. I'm just like, when you guys were going in the back and forth about like, what is the deadlift to the anime

versus what is the bicep curls of anime? What is the squats of anime? It's just like, what did you say that, that JoJo's bizarre adventure was to the deadlifts of anime and Evangelion was the bicep curls? Like that level of niche-ness, but imagine that for being a dad and home improvement tools. Anyway, this content and more for $5 a month for literally just $5. We thank you for listening

to the show. If you're hearing this when it's released, you are a subscriber on Patreon. If you're listening on the free feed, maybe consider checking out all of that good content that we spoke about for as little as $5 a month and until next time. I'm really serious. I'm going to shrink and get fit inside a shoe. No one's going to respect me. They're just going to throw it outdoors and be like, look, little Robert Matthews running away, skittering back to his hive, skittering back to his termite nest because Washington state's full of them and it's fucked up. please don't go to Washington if you do and you walk off the trail you'll be eaten alive by termites I swear to fucking God this

happened to me. I have ants on my feet! Have you ever been to Fort Lewis Washington? You ever see the ants and the termites go away? fucking they're horrible infested demon country goodbye