Living The Red Life - Amplify Your Reach w/Joe Pulizzi's Content Tilt Method

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Joe Pulizzi, a renowned content marketing expert and author, shares valuable insights into building a sustainable content strategy in this conversation. Known for pioneering content marketing approaches and founding Content Marketing Institute, Joe dives into what it takes to create a loyal audience and a profitable brand. He emphasizes the importance of starting with a single, focused niche and committing to consistency, cautioning against spreading too thin across platforms early on.Joe advises creators to develop a routine with consistent posting and to engage actively with others in their field by commenting on relevant content. This strategy, he explains, is crucial to gaining visibility and driving organic growth, especially for those starting out. As creators build traction, Joe encourages them to consider “paying to play,” putting ad dollars behind their best-performing content to reach broader audiences. He highlights that while content creation is essential, devoting 75% of one’s time to content promotion and community engagement will ultimately lead to greater success and, ideally, easier monetization.CHAPTER TITLES3:00 - Laying the Foundation: Picking Your Niche and Platform5:30 - Choosing Your Focus: Why Content Needs Consistency7:55 - Staying Consistent: Building Trust Through Regularity10:30 - Engaging Beyond Your Page: The Power of Commenting on Others’ Content13:45 - Leveraging Paid Promotion: How and When to Invest17:20 - Testing and Iterating: Knowing When to Adjust Your Strategy19:00 - Audience Growth Tips: Consistency and Collaboration21:10 - Content Creation vs. Promotion: The 75/25 Rule23:50 - Failure as a Learning Tool: Insights from Personal Struggles25:10 - Mindset for Success: Staying Resilient and Embracing ChangeConnect with Joe Pulizzi:Joepulizzi.comConnect with Rudy Mawer:LinkedInInstagramFacebookTwitter

The most important thing that you can do is be known. Okay. Well, if I need to be known, I need to be everywhere. My customers are at online. No, you don't. You absolutely shouldn't do that. If you do that immediately, you're going to spend so much energy trying to be known in every channel that you're going to be just mediocre at best in any one thing.

We feel like as content creators, we need to be everywhere. I got to be on LinkedIn. I got to be on Twitter X. I got to be on Facebook. I got to be on TikTok. I got to be on Instagram. I got to be on. I gotta be on LinkedIn, I gotta be on Twitter x, I gotta be on Facebook, I gotta be on TikTok, I gotta be on Instagram, I gotta be on YouTube, gotta do the podcast, gotta do an event. I mean, it's, it never stops. My name is Rudy Moore, host of Living the Red Life podcast. I'm here to change the way you see your life in your earpiece every single week. If you're ready to start living the red life, ditch the blue

pill, take the red pill, join me in Wonderland and change your life. What's up guys, welcome back to another episode of Living the Red Life. Today we're going to talk about how to get mass brand awareness into your business. We're here with Joe and we're going to talk about this unique strategy which I'm fascinated to break down. It's called the content till. It's part of Joe's method inside the content in system he has. If you don't know, Joey sold over a hundred thousand books in this book alone, helping entrepreneurs, business owners, just like you do exactly what we're trying to do today, which is get more attention and awareness on your brand. So Joe, welcome to the show. Rudy, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. For sure. So let's talk about

it. I, you know, I'm an ads guy. I started as an ads guy. I spent thousands a day, 10, 20 grand a day, then up to a hundred thousand dollars plus a day. I've always been an ads guy. And more recently I got really into organic too. And I really believe you need both now. Right. And I teach often when I meet all these entrepreneurs, they all hire me, like, hey, the formula of business is very basic in itself that if you don't have traffic eyeballs and attention, it doesn't matter if you have the best product in the world,

you're not gonna make sales. So let's talk about it. How do people get more attention on their brand? I think the first thing to think about is don't focus on your products and services, focus on your audience. So who is your audience? Who are you trying to serve and serve that audience with the best information you can possibly serve them with.

So everyone does it backwards, right? Just everyone does it backwards. That's why they could. Yeah. If I'm going to start a business today, I actually do not want to launch for the product or service. What I want to do is say, okay, well, who am I going to target? What do I bring to the table? What's, what's my experience? What do I have some insight into?

And then I want to create what we call the content tilt. Like what is that one area of differentiation that your content can break through all that clutter out there. It's more difficult than ever before to break through. So what are you going to do? You've got to focus on one area where you can actually be the best. You do that. You find a channel, whether that's TikTok, YouTube, an email newsletter, a book

series, podcast, whatever it is, focus on doing one thing really well in that tilt and build that audience. And then once you build that audience, guess what? You can sell whatever you want. You could sell this newfangled product that you want to sell. You could sell consulting services. And if you do it really well, you can have a wonderful exit. But everyone starts with, oh my God, I got this product or service. I got to get out. No, no, no. Let's take a step back. Who's that audience you're trying to target? What are their pain points? What keeps them up at night?

What can you deliver that's different than everyone else and then attack one of those channels consistently over time? That's the model that works. Not the, oh, I can be everywhere at one time. I'm gonna focus on what everybody else is focusing on. No, no, no, take a step back and think about less is more. Think about saying no to a lot of things.

That's what strategy is all about. Yeah, I like that. And when I look at my business growth, I kind of did that and fell into it. My first fitness business that really took off, I was a sports scientist and I remember I graduated and I really wanted to scale online, you know, within for products courses I dabbled for a few years doing it for you know university but 35 to 50 that really wanted this more like sports science, scientific approach. And they just kind of

that jammed with what I was teaching and my personality, I guess. And we ended up selling, you know, somewhere close to 100,000 copies and built a massive community. But I remember like two weeks before that I launched a more of a men's science guide to muscle building and it flopped, right? And luckily I was the person that tested a lot because who knows, maybe I could still be trying

to make that work and broke in a crappy apartment, you know, from 10 years ago, but it just shows you, you've got to like, yeah, it's really important to reverse engineer it that way. It's tough though, right? Because generally entrepreneurs fall in love with their product. Yeah, I did the same thing. I felt my first product when I launched the business 2007 thought it was the greatest thing ever. That's what I was

like, oh, we were going to do a matching system between, you know, people that created content, content creators and brands that needed content. I'm like, oh my God, nothing else is out there. It's gonna be amazing. But the business model was terrible. And the only thing that I, the only thing that helped me get out of that is, oh my God, let's just listen.

What do these people really need? What do these marketers really need? What are their pain points? What keeps them up at night? Talking to them on a regular basis, finding that out and realizing they don't need my product. That's not what they want. So focusing instead on, okay, how can I deliver value over a long period of time?

I did it through a blog. I delivered a blog post to them every day for whatever it was, two years in a row, build it a really engaged, interesting audience that really wanted that information. And then from there, we will launch products and services and a multimillion dollar brand, but it takes a while, right? Cause you don't think it's like, Oh, everybody's going to want this. No, they're probably not. Let's have everybody want to click on your article to look at your video,

to listen to your podcast every day first. and that paves the way for everything else in your business. Yeah, yeah. I think, and just listening to this, I think why I've done well in all, cause I've moved through different industries now and became kind of well-known in several and done well in several,

it's cause I've always been pretty fluid. Like I've just loved to educate and help people. Like that was the personal trainer in me from 17 just to coach and educate. So I've always kind of stayed fluid on the topics and the areas and you know, even in this, in this industry, I started with Facebook ads and then realized actually people wanted to learn funnels and sales processes and now they like to learn more branding and stuff, because I built this big red

brand, and then I built a team to 100 people, and they're interested in hiring and leadership. So yeah, I think I guess one of my superpowers is staying fluid. Because when you said that about the product, I meet the other side of the other end of the spectrum of me, like a lot of where they're so rigid on this one thing trying to hammer it in and it's like it might not work, you know? Well, the most important thing, and this is for anybody in any career, the most important thing that you can do is be known. And I think a lot of people

don't realize that because entrepreneurs, they want to sell stuff. So what do you do? And then the other problem that they have is, okay, well, if I need to be known, I need to be everywhere my customers are at online. No, you don't. You absolutely shouldn't do that. If you do that immediately, you're going to spend so much energy trying to be known in every channel that you're going to be just mediocre at best in any one thing. Yeah, you have 5,000 followers on 10 platforms. Exactly. It doesn't do anything for you. But that's, again, that's most content entrepreneurs. They go out there and say, oh, I got to be on LinkedIn.

I got to be on TwitterX. I got to be on Facebook. I got to be on TikTok. I got to be on Instagram. I got to be on YouTube. Got to do the podcast. Got to do an event. I mean, it never stops.

And it never will stop. And so I got to go in. And I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs. I say, OK, well, let's start killing some things. What are you doing on with that podcast? That's not working for you. What are you doing on YouTube? That's not working for you.

What can you be the best in the world at in your industry to your audience? Oh, newsletter, great. On LinkedIn, wonderful. Like pick, choose something. And that, but again, that's so hard to do Rudy, as you know, to convince them to do that, because we feel like as content creators,

we need to be everywhere when actually that's the worst decision you can make. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, it's, it's partly because, you know, people like myself and Gary Vee and everyone, we always do teach be everywhere, right? In a literal more big picture sense, but in a more specific actionable sense, you've got to have a level of reality, right?

And like, you can only do so much. And it's sometimes funny because, you know, I'm pretty well known now in this industry, big socials and stuff. And I'll meet this like LinkedIn, LinkedIn expert when I'm speaking. And the first thing they'll ask is Rudy, why don't you have 400,000 people on LinkedIn? And I'm always in my head, I'm like, you know, and I'll say it to them. I'm like, you got to pick your poison, you know, would I love a massive LinkedIn? Would I love a massive YouTube? Would I love a top podcast? Would I love five bestselling books? Would I love an Amazon TV show? Of course, we'd all love all of those things, right? But you got

a chip away and you can only do so much at one point. And I think that's important to realize. But one thing that I do want to pick up on, you said, you know, being known is so, so important. So I want to talk about that. Let's dive into this content tilts, you know, method part of the, you know, your whole framework within the content Inc formula.

So let's talk about how do we start on that journey of being everywhere? Sure. So the first thing is when you start anything is what is your sweet spot? So who is your audience? You know, it's not for everyone. If it's for everyone, it's for no one.

So who's that audience? What's their pain points? What keeps them up at night? And then what's your expertise area? What are you good at? What are you gonna talk about? The intersection of those two create your sweet spot. Most content entrepreneurs stop there.

They're like, oh great, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna cover baseball cards in the 1980s, whatever the case is. You're like, okay, well great. So are 10,000 other people doing it the exact same way. So you've got to go to step two, which is the content tilt, which is a realization that if you don't create something small in an area that is not oversaturated, you're never going to make it unless you have millions of dollars to break through. You could buy all those ads. That's great.

If you could do that, if you got the money, but most content entrepreneurs don't. So you've got to figure out, okay, what is that area of differentiation? Are you going to do it on a different point of view? You're going to talk, you're going to go one way or the other. Are you going to wear red or orange all the time? You know, are you going to have a sense of humor?

Are you going to talk about cloud computing in a way that nobody's talking about it? Maybe you're going to be like really against AI or really, really for AI, whatever. You get the point. Like you've got to, you've got to have a point of view that sticks out. I love this too, because you know, I haven't gone through your whole system. That's why I was excited to break it down today. But I basically, you know, without knowing it, we teach it very similar.

I, you know, I always teach like, what's your niche? What are you going to become known as? I say famous for, right. When I work with clients. And then the second thing I teach them is, okay, now what's your gimmick? I call it a gimmick, right? Cause I work with a lot of WWE wrestlers and I think wrestling and WWE, they've become world-class at creating these gimmick characters, right?

And that's why they became a billion dollar company. So I'm like, what's your gimmick, right? Are you gonna teach it, like you say, while you're juggling, right? Or, you know, you're on a yacht every time or you're wearing red like me. So, you know, this second part is like, how do you differentiate yourself

within that area of expertise? It's a great point. I did a similar thing is I was at that point where I was in an industry called custom publishing or custom media or brand communications or branded journalism. It was all the same, but everyone called it something different. And when I launched the business in 2007, I said, how are we going to cover this industry, but to be differentiated enough and get attention. And we started playing around with this term called content marketing. Nobody was using it, but we were targeting marketers. And I'm like, okay, well, what do I know about this audience that a lot of

people don't take advantage of? Well, if you're going to do something in marketing, you have to call it blank marketing, search engine marketing, social media, marketing, direct marketing. Everything is blank marketing. Yet this area of marketing we're calling custom publishing, custom content, custom media. It doesn't make any sense. So we started to push this idea of maybe the term or our gimmick, as you would

say, is content marketing. And it took a couple years. Granted, is this, you know, is this a marathon, not a sprint. It takes some time to do this, but it took us about two and a half years. And then by 2010 content marketing became the term for the industry as it is today. And when it became the term for the industry, we made it on top because we've been talking about it for so many years. Love it.

Love it. Okay. What's the next one? So I got the first two, right? First one. Sweet Spot, you got it. Sweet Spot, Content Tilt, you found your area of differentiation.

Now you're gonna build the base. And this is where I do a little bit, it's a little bit different than most people do because when they launch a content brand of some kind or they launch content into a system, they generally do it in three, four, five different places at one time, which I think is a huge mistake. What we want to do is build our base to one audience, one content

type on one channel. So is it audio, video, textual plus image? And what is your core show on? Is it a newsletter? Is it a podcast? Is it a YouTube channel? Is it Instagram? Whatever. Now, it doesn't mean you can't be on other channels. It means that your core show is in one place. It's like Mr. Beast, right? Mr. Beast is everywhere now, but where did he start? He started for three years and only focused on being great at YouTube. And by the way, still focuses on that area. Now, even now, is YouTube is just, I teach, it's funny because my thing is I then teach content splintering, which is the same thing where, you know, he does is splinters that out, right? And with AI and chat GPT, it's so easy now, right?

You make content on one place, put it in AI and say, make me some emails for this now. Make me make this into a LinkedIn post. And, you know, is it gonna be perfect? No, is it better than zero? Yeah, probably somewhere in the middle. That's kind of how I think. I think, and I think the one thing is, is that if you go too crazy with that,

you forget that I have to figure out how I can be the best and all the tips and tricks in this one channel and be great at this one show. So, and this is by the way, this is publishing 101. If you look at New York Times, Huffington Post, any major media company, they all start out doing one thing really well. Like what, New York Times, what is it?

It was a newspaper, right? Huffington Post, what was it? It was a blog. You know, Financial Times, the same thing. Or what's the magazine? Fast Company Magazine. They all started doing one thing, and now they're everywhere. So I wanna teach, don't diversify immediately same thing or what's the magazine fast company magazine, they all started doing one thing.

And now they're everywhere. So I want to teach don't diversify immediately like most marketing people do focus on doing one thing really well. And then from there, we go on and want to build our audience over time. And I can get into that if you want to. Great. And so that's stage three, anything else, or is that the full? Stage three is building the best or building your base. So, yeah, choose. You have to choose. You can be in a lot of places, but you have to choose one core area that you're going to build your audience on. Yeah. And I always say, like, for me, when I help people with that, because they always ask me, they go, okay, Rudy, that makes sense. Where do I post? And I say, I don't know, it's wherever your audience hangs out. So it's like, you know, everyone's everyone says, well, there's Instagram better than YouTube. I'm like, it depends if your audience is there or not. Some of you LinkedIn's best, some of you YouTube's

best. But I also think one extra thing I want to add to that, it has to fit your personality too, because if your audience is on YouTube and Instagram and you're absolutely tragically bad at video, right? And you hate it, you're probably not going to be successful at YouTube. Teach this with dieting, right? Like, you know, is a low carb diet better for you? Well, it might help with your insulin sensitivity and blood sugar control. But if you hate all the foods in that car, that thing, and you love carbohydrates and you don't stick with it, it's not gonna work for you. So I think part of it's where your audience hangs out,

but also part of it is where do you, how do you like to create content? How well do you communicate? You might be a fantastic writer and great with design and do really well with static posts and blogs, but you might suck at video and be scared of it. And every time you're supposed to shoot every week, you make an excuse not to do it, you know?

That's such a great point. I like to call it sort of the Harry Potter sorting method. Like you do have a say. Like even though you know you should be in Hufflepuff or Gryffindor or whatever, you, you have a say, say, Oh, maybe I'm, I feel like more Slytherin, whatever. It's the same thing. So maybe you're, you're, you've got the face for podcasting, right?

Maybe, maybe, maybe you can't write. So, you know, maybe articles aren't your jam. So you absolutely have a say. So, so pick, but the most interesting thing more than anything else, if you look at any of the research is the actual choosing of something is your most important thing in this area. Cause if you hedge, you know, like, ah, I don't know yet.

I'm gonna be on the audit. Let's split my content energy within six different things. Generally that doesn't offer success. You have to do that later in the process. So next question, people are listening to this, you know, very similar to what I teach. They're going through it. They're picking then, you know, their niche, their thing, they're picking, you know, as I would call it, they give me, they're then picking, okay, I'm going to do this on Instagram because I like that sort

of content. My avatar's there. They start posting, they get a month or two in or a half a year in, and there's no traction. How, how well, How often and how do you advise around actually split testing the sort of thing they're teaching, right? Like do you say just go all in and keep with it? How do you assess progression? No, I mean, first of all, you got to pick some consistency. So what is it? So a lot of people that start, they'll do four Instagram posts in one day, and then they'll skip a day and they'll do two. And I'm like, okay, you've already got off to a horrible start. So just think of the way the newspaper used to be or getting any newsletter. You get it the same time, the same day, every month, every week, whatever the case is. So pick your consistency,

because you're right. If you don't pick a consistency, you can't test anything. You can't test whether three o'clock is different than eight o'clock or whether Tuesdays are different than Wednesdays or whatever, or the type that you go on. I think the other thing that we forget is that it's not just your content. If you want to be, no, like I teach this on LinkedIn. So if you want to get a solid following on LinkedIn,

the most important thing you could do is be on other people's LinkedIn pages. Yeah. I mean, it's not rocket science. It's just a basic commenting strategy, but you want to figure out, okay, where are my customers to your point hanging out? Okay, well, they're on these 20 or 30

different LinkedIn channels. Okay, well, on Monday, I'm going to be posting on these four and on Tuesday, I'm going to be posting on these five and on Tuesday, I'm gonna be posting on these five. I mean, it's just basic, but if you wanna have a following, you can't just be in your own content wormhole, if you will. You have to branch out because they're not gonna find your content until they see you somewhere else. That should be number one part of your strategy

is being on other people's channels. Great. One thing I wanna add that I like to use with some of my clients to get a bit of traction is when you're really going and you're starting to get success, I do like to pay to play because I think time's more precious than money

so if I can collapse it by spending money, I'm always gonna do it. So when they start to find traction, I say, hey, take this top reel or this top YouTube or this top LinkedIn post and start paying for some sponsored shout outs where you get big influences or pages to repost it, thank you, put some ad spend behind it to boost it. And I think that's just important. Like if you especially

if you have the money to invest it, like we're not talking a lot, you know, paying a couple of influencers, $100 here or there can get you extra traction. And that's, you know, one method we've used. So so yeah, a lot of I love the breakdown of the system. I do have a few as we wrap up today, wrap more rapid fire business questions for you ready. Absolutely. Go for it. Okay, first one one what is the most

controversial belief you have around business marketing money anything like that? Oh I've got a lot of them I think the I think the first thing is you should spend about 20 to 25 percent of your content creation time actually creating content. Great. Most of what content creators do is they spend 100 percent of their time and get absolutely nothing. And I think to your point and to your system, about 75% of all your time, energy, money, resources need to go to promoting that content and make sure it's findable where your customers are at

and not just spending all your time promoting content that nobody's gonna see. And then eventually when you go into traction, just to add to that, how do you monetize it? Cause I also meet people the other end of the spectrum, millions of followers and they're just doing paid shout outs and earning very little money when they have forgot about building a brand.

Exactly right. Well, you get a lot of content entrepreneurs that'll go out there and they'll create, they'll find their niche and their audience. And I'll say, well, is there money here? And they, I don't know. But you, I said, before you do anything, ask yourself, is there money?

Because if there is then you can monetize it 10 different ways. You could sell advertising and sponsorship and launch events and do affiliate links and donations, launch products and services, the whole thing. You could do all those things, but you have to make sure that there's actually an infrastructure of money

to support what you're doing. Yeah, it's knowing where you're going. It's like, if you live in the middle of the country and you drive to the coast and you say you're going to the beach, it's like, well, is there actually a nice beach there? You maybe need to go to the south, right? So just check before you start driving.

You'd have the best content in the world, but if there's no money there, it's like, oh, okay, well, then you've got a really, really good hobby. I hope you're passionate about it. We've had that with celebrities where they're like, you know, we take over and they've got millions of followers and they want to build a brand. I'm like, your audience is cheap and they're used to free stuff and like, yeah, you have millions of followers, but like, they don't want to pay anything. Whereas we find someone with a million or two followers, but like they don't want to pay anything. Whereas we find someone with a

million or two followers, right? It's a way less than the 20 million celeb. And we make millions of dollars because their audience is, you know, more, more lucrative and more successful. They're more used to buying and investing in themselves or whatever. So definitely massive variations here too, that we're talking about. So yeah. So next question, biggest failure and lesson from that and biggest success that you're proud of in your business career? Well, I think the biggest failure was, and I mentioned it before, but the biggest failure

is I went out and I launched a business in April of 2007 and I said, I love this product. It was a content marketing matching product. I thought it was the greatest thing ever. And by 2009, I'm looking for a job. I'm like, I've been doing this for two years, focusing on the product. And the whole time I'm focusing on the product. Luckily, I was creating a blog every day talking about content marketing strategy.

And I finally started to listen to my audience who are saying, Joe, you know, is there any content marketing training out there? Are there any events that I can take my team to that I can educate them on what's going on with content marketing and create a content marketing strategy? So here I am creating a product and service that maybe 1% of my audience actually wants and needs. When I got 98% saying they want an event. So from being known as a content marketing expert and building a

email newsletter audience of about 250,000, we were able to launch an event called content marketing world. And that event was 4,000 people, a multimillion dollar event, which we were able to sell a few years later. Well, and you were right at the right time, too. I mean, like if you tried it now, it's everyone's teaching that stuff, right? But you were you were right there. A perfect time.

Well, the point is, is that if I was to launch into content marketing today, I couldn't be differentiated enough. I would never launch a blog or a podcast or anything in content marketing, because what? There's there's a hundred thousand, a million other people talking talking about it now you have to find you have to find something else it's too late for that one yeah i love that love that and that's an important point guys don't glance over that if you're listening still here uh as we wrap up like you know to make sure you're picking i talked about this on a recent podcast too blue ocean red ocean, you know, you've got to find stuff that still has legs because some stuff so saturated, it's like a massive uphill battle. If you don't have money and means to make it through that area. So last question, if you could go in a time machine.

And advise your younger self, one or things, what would you say to yourself? Honestly, don't be so hard on yourself when you fail. Because I really like when I was, I had so many failures probably like you did, and I always thought it was the end of the world. And then I don't realize now that I look back on that I'm like, wow, if I wouldn't have had those failures, I would have never had any successes. So it's very hard to get so down on yourself. And I got into some pretty dark places thinking, I can't believe that I got a, I got a wife and a two kids, a family I'm trying to take care of. I'm not bringing any money in.

I left a six figure job, all those things that I'm a complete failure. And I just, I wish I would have taken a step back and say, okay, this failure is part of the process. Take it seriously, learn from it, move on, but don't get into that dark place. It's going to be okay. If you are an entrepreneur, failure is just part of the plan. It's absolutely going to happen. And hopefully it happens many, many times.

You can rebound quickly from that to find your success. Yeah. And I've always found like weirdly, every time there's like the biggest problem or the biggest thing that shuts down or your business is ruined. It's like, for me at least, it's opened the door to the thing that like

is my next journey in life. And like every single time I built a business that's doubled the revenue of the last business within a couple of years. So it's kind of just been like pivotal moments for me. And I think part of that is my openness to change and positive mindset. I mean, you can obviously if you if you don't have that you can just dwell on it and do nothing. But I'm very quick to pivot. And I think my big advantage is I came from a small town in England. So I've already far exceeded anything I thought I would do. So it's like, I, it's like there is no bottom now, you know,

like I'm still ahead of where I, most people are, but I was born with. So I think just keeping that mindset so important. I love that advice. Hey, if anybody's listening to this, who is an entrepreneur, which are a lot of people, you've already made the best choice choice you've already decided to work for yourself and to figure it out which is very difficult to do but is is a much better path than i think working for somebody else yeah i'd sooner be broke still figuring out my next business than working a job for 25 30 grand a year like people i grew up with that they hate it and they just party all weekend because then they're miserable for five days of their life.

You're building something that's meaningful. So you just have to remember that. Yeah, exactly. All right, Joe. Well, that's a wrap. If anyone wants to check out the book or learn more about you, where can they find you? Go to jopelitzy.com, P-U-L-I-Z-Z-I.com. You can get all my books, my newsletter called Orange Letter,

which I send out every two weeks. All my social stuff's on there, all my books, everything. Great, Joe, it's been a pleasure. I love the breakdown and simplicity of it and also how it happens to just sync so well with what I'm teaching, which is a great sign to anyone listening, you know, and do people teach very similar without knowing

and they're both experts, you know, that's a solid system you should be implementing. So Joe, thanks so much, guys, as always, work hard, implement what you learn today, and keep living the red light. Take care. Bye!