Locked In with Ian Bick - Anna Delvey: How I SURVIVED Rikers Island & Prison

Episode Date: February 22, 2026

Anna Delvey sits down with Ian Bick and finally tells the part of her story the world hasn’t heard, not the fake heiress headlines, but the arrest, LA County jail, surviving Rikers Island, doing time in New York state prison, and ending up in an ICE detention center, breaking down the everyday survival, politics, fear, and pressure of prison life that no Netflix series ever showed. _____________________________________________ #IanBick #AnnaDelvey #LockedIn #RikersIsland #PrisonLife #ICEDetention #TrueCrime #prisonstories _____________________________________________ Thank you to AVA & FACTOR for sponsoring this episode: AVA: Take control of your credit today. Download the Ava app and when you join using my promo code LOCKEDIN, you’ll get 20% off your first year—monthly or annual, your choice. _____________________________________________ FACTOR: Head to https://factormeals.com/lockedin50off and use code lockedin50off to get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year. Offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. _____________________________________________ Connect with Anna Delvey: https://www.instagram.com/theannadelvey/?hl=en _____________________________________________ Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ _____________________________________________ Shop Locked In Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop _____________________________________________ Timestamps: 00:00 Why I’m Skipping The Fake Heiress Story 01:00 The Day My Life Changed: Arrested In LA 03:00 Inside LA County Jail: Processing Shock 05:30 First Night Locked Up & Meeting My Cellmates 07:00 The Phone Call That Made It Real 09:00 Shackled & Flown To New York: Arraignment 12:00 Jail Food Hacks & How I Survived Inside 14:00 Breaking Down Physically & Mentally In Jail 18:00 Welcome To Rikers: Intake, Strip Search, Reality 22:00 Rikers Dorm Life & Dangerous Cell Politics 25:00 Commissary, Currency & The Jail Hustle 29:00 Facing Trial: The Biggest Decision Of My Life 32:00 Court, Cameras & Becoming A Headline 37:00 Trial, Verdict & Hearing My Sentence 42:00 From Rikers To Prison: Landing In Bedford/Albion 46:00 Prison Jobs, Food & The Social Hierarchy 50:00 Adapting To Prison Fashion & Daily Routine 54:00 Prison Art, Hustles & Becoming Self-Sufficient 59:00 Parole, Release Day & A New Nightmare: Immigration 01:04:00 ICE Detention: No End In Sight 01:09:00 From Inmate To Public Figure: TV, Docs & Fame 01:13:00 House Arrest, Curfews & Life After Prison 01:18:00 Finding Redemption & A New Purpose 01:23:00 What Prison Taught Me & Why Reform Matters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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But that first time, I thought I was going to lose my mind. Anna Delvey sits down with me and we skip the fake era story that the Netflix series inventing Anna and other podcasts and the media. already covered. Instead, we jump straight into her arrest and what actually happened next. L.A. County jail, Rikers Island, New York State Prison, and an ICE detention center. You're going to hear how she fought her case going to trial. What everyday survival really looked like on the inside, from her prison jobs to her favorite meals, sell politics and interactions with other inmates and guards, all the stuff the public never got to see. So tell us about that day you got arrested what that was like where you were.

I was arrested in L.A. They picked me up on a warrant from New York. So I never had any charges in California. But the girl, whatever, whoever called herself, my friend, Rachel, she basically cooperated with the police to get me arrested from Los Angeles, even though I was never, like, running from the authorities. I did not even know, like, I had those charges pending. so there's nothing for me to like run from.

And yeah, they like showed up where I was at. And they were like, well, it was like, are you Elizabeth or something? I'm like, no. It's like, what's the name? It was like, well, we have a warrant for your restroom, New York. And it was just one line. And it was like, well, we don't know what's going on. We're just here to pick you up on behalf of New York.

And they really don't really tell you much. It's literally like, oh, the charges for whatever, X, Y, Z amount of dollars. They don't like tell you what you're charged with. They're just like, do you want to waive the extradition? And like, so you don't fight it. And they have, I think, 30 days. New York has 30 days to come pick you up.

And my detectives waited, I think, 28 days. So I was in jail in L.A. until they came to pick me up. And we flew on American Airlines in the back, in the economy in those three seats at the very back. Were you in the L.A. County Jail or was it a different jail? It was like the towers, whatever it's called. I'm not sure. Maybe the federal building or?

I'm not sure. It's like that's called the towers. And that was a very first time you ever spent in jail. Yeah, yeah. And then they brought me to New York. And I think then I spent that night at like MDC or in a holding cell. Like they did not bring me to Rikers. Because it was pretty late at night when we got in like around 10 or 11. And my arraignment was the next morning. So I guess it was not worth it for them to like bring me to Rikers or anywhere.

Then I got arraigned me bond and then they brought me to Rikers. What was it like the first night in jail in L.A.? Because probably the night before you were in a hotel or somewhere a lot nicer than a jail. So what was that first moment like? Oh, God. It was terrible because I think L.A., it was not even in jail. They hold you for such a long time. I think they allowed to detain you, like, up to 72 hours before you have to, like, see the judge or they have to tell you, like, why you here.

So I guess I had to, like, wait forever. I remember just being endless. and you can't really like call anyone because like nobody picks up the phone or like I didn't know the numbers. It was just very confusing. And it was like those awful phones. Like it either would not work or it would show up like as a spam call or I just didn't have that person's number because I only let you write down like two or three numbers.

And I was like, okay, we need your phone back. And only after that you go to like the whatever. jail with everyone else. I remember LA, it was like a lot of prostitutes. There was a lot of traffic, definitely. It's like a lot of girls, yeah, who are like just there. I was like, oh, I'm here again. Yeah, because I guess there it's illegal. I did not remember seeing that many in New York. And I think it kind of helps, like, in a way because everyone there is in distress. And you're just like sitting in a room with like, I don't know, 10, 15 other women and they all have like a story. So it kind of like takes your mind a bit off of like your own plague, right?

You cannot. It's different than like sitting by yourself and a cell. Was there a woman's story that resonated with you a lot that you met right away? I mean, I was always thought it was so crazy how like people with children or pets or I don't know, like elderly that they need to care for. Like sometimes they just disappear, right? And like, what do you do? Like I was lucky there's nobody there who like relies on me, right?

but imagine you have a kid at home and I were like, where is mom? Like I'd be devastated, right? Like at least, yeah, nobody's relying on me for like their survival. But it must be so stressful. Or imagine like if you have a job that's not really stable and you get like arrested and you spend a week in custody and you get fired obviously. It's like you didn't show up goodbye. And then that leads to you like you not being able to pay your rent. and just it's like snowballs.

It seems like that's what's been happening to a lot of women. Who was your first phone call to when you were finally able to make a call? Did you have anyone? I called my embassy, I think, the German one, because they give you those numbers. I mean, when I got arrested, I called Rachel, the girl who got me arrested, because I did not know that yet. But I, because I was on the way to have, like, lunch with her, and I did not want for her to, to think, like, I stood her up where I just did not show up. But, like, I kind of, like, I thought what if it was her because what a coincidence? But I didn't want to, like, think the

worst. And I know she never picked up the phone because I guess she, like, realized. Did you know in that moment when she didn't pick up that she was the one that turned you in? No, I realized that after when I got to New York. And because all my numbers were on a property slip. And when you travel, you have to have to have. hand, like, the officers who were transporting me, they had all of my belongings. And the detective is, like, looking at my slip. And I guess Rachel's number was, like, in the corner. I remember it was like a pink slip. And he tore it off. And I knew then, because I knew, like, you're not supposed to be in touch with your victim. So somebody's pressing charges against you,

you are not allowed to reach out to them. Tell us about that American Airlines flight, what that was like, because the public does see people hyperact. profile people that go on the commercial airlines. I didn't have that experience. I went on con air, like an actual dedicated plane. Yeah. But I imagine it's much worse being on commercial and that kind of like embarrassing moment. Yeah. Well, I was not famous back then. So like nobody was before any headlines, before Netflix. So I was fairly anonymous. And it was two detectives, a woman and a man. I mean, they were fairly nice. I guess they treat you based on how dangerous they deem you. and I don't know, I was like a kind of a not a big person.

Like they were not physically scared of me and I did not like act crazy. I don't know. I know they picked me up from, at first like when they came to pick me up, they were in these civilian clothes. And I think one of them said, I thought it was just like a guy bailing his wife out because they did not like introduce themselves to me while they were like handling the paperwork.

But I saw them like just talking to the guards. but they were like wearing those very like colorful, like a lay clothes. And then I was like, okay, let's go. I was like, oh, that's you. And they were like, well, thanks for choosing LA to like run away from us. At least it's like the weather was nice because I guess they had like three days that they like took as a vacation or whatever it might be. And I think then we stopped by to like at the Burger King or something to get. to get breakfast, and then we were at the airport.

It's so crazy because I didn't have, like, any identification on me. They're like, we just, I guess they had the paperwork for me to fly. Now that I was like, oh, my gosh, they literally, like, let me fly with nothing. Do you go through TSA? No, I don't think so. I think I just, like, went for, like, a special thing because I was cuffed, but cuffed in the front, and they were like, well, just don't do anything crazy. They uncoved me eventually, like, on the plane because what was I going to do?

While we were waiting for the flight, I guess, like, they bought me chocolate in, like, a vanity fair magazine for me, something they did, because it's a pretty long flight. Do you think that Vanity Fair magazine foreshadowed what was to come in the future for you? Maybe, yeah, yeah. That's interesting how things played out. Yeah, yeah, I definitely remember it was a vanity fair. I don't remember which issue, but whatever the current issue was, it was October of 2017. At that point in time, were you passionate about fashion? Yeah, I always worked like in fashion even before that.

So, yeah, and then we got on a flight, I don't remember. We probably, like, the first ones, first ones to, like, board and the last ones to land. And I don't know. I was wearing this black jumpsuit because they lost my dress. But I also got arrested like in a pretty, it was like a backless, long, flowy dress. So it's like a tricky one to like fly in. But they just like they forgot it somewhere. And then they offered to like mail it to me and I was like, well, I'm in jail.

So I guess you can keep it. So you never got it back to this day? I don't think so. I just like I was not bothered enough. I guess I could have like gotten it back somehow. It would probably be pretty iconic now. Yeah. But nobody, like, they aren't pictures of me wearing it, so it's kind of like pointless.

Now, do they bring you straight to the arraignment or do you stop somewhere first when you get off the plane? I think we either got to JFK. I'm not sure which exactly airport it was. But we went to their offices in Brooklyn. I guess I got booked because I remember they were like taking my fingerprints. And then they brought me to the tomb. that's what you call them? Like, yeah, in Manhattan, yeah, where you, like, wait for the judge.

Yeah, because it was pretty late at night. We, like, landed, yeah, like 10 or 11 p.m. It took them a while to get me processed. So I had to, like, I did not sleep that night, obviously. Yeah, and then, yeah, I got arraigned, and then I wasn't rakers. What were the charges that they read to you for that first time? That was the first time you were hearing them. Well, I had two attempted grand larcenies,

four regular grand larcenies, and I think two misdemeanors, or four misdemeanors, I don't remember. And what was going through your mind when you read those charges? I don't remember. I think it was pretty surreal. Like, there was a lot going on in a courthouse, so it's like you just try to pay attention what's going on and, like, people taking pictures, like the judge and the lawyers. And I don't know. This spring, Uber Eats has you covered. Whether you're celebrating mom, dad, or your favorite grad, not all of us are great planners, and with the Uber Eats Gift Hub, you don't have to be.

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Get started at Redfin.com. Own the dream. when you were going through the process of waiting for New York to pick you up and even the plane ride and your first arraignment, what were you thinking about the most? Was it the outside world? Was it your business that you wanted to start? What was the main thought that you always thought of? Maybe it was family. I guess it was everything. And I was a very stressful experience. I guess being in L.HL.A.L. It was pretty awful. It was like very crammed. like it's crazy that they make people like live like that and they were women who like been there four years like awaiting their trial so it's so crazy because that's like a whole world in itself and there's so much going on like inside of this jail like you can live that life and like forget the outside world but yeah just like trying to like get in touch with everyone and try to find out like what's going on because literally like nobody would tell you anything Like, well, you are not our inmate.

We're just holding you. So, like, we don't really have jurisdiction over anything. They would, like, wash their hands. What surprised you the most about that L.A. jail? I guess, like, everything, bad food. I don't know. Just, like, terrible conditions. How, like, you're not pretty convicted of anything, but, like, how punitive it is.

Do you remember the first prison meal you ever ate? I guess it just like starts with the horrible stuff that they give you when it's just first the rest to because it's like whatever the sandwiches. It was bad because I don't eat meat and all of that. It's probably like not meat either. But it's all just like the brown paper bag lunch. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like a lot of chips.

They love chips and like some kind of a fruit or an apple. The sandwiches like the bread, the toasted bread. Or the cheese, the cheese sandwiches. That's really bad. Did you have commissary that month in L.A.? Or not yet because you didn't have anyone to put money on your books? Yes, I did. I mean, I guess they take the money that you had on you.

I remember getting commissary. I'm not sure how. But yeah, the commissary is terrible, too. It's like a bunch of junk food. And I was like, no wonder everyone is just so fat. Everyone was mostly overweight. Yeah, yeah. But it's really, really hard to, like, keep your weight eating food like that.

Yeah, I was reading somewhere that you commented that you gained a lot of weight in prison. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just like I just had to eat a lot of nuts and they're like very fattening. And I think I just remember you hungry all the time. Like even if you eat, like right now, like it's so completely different. Like just food affects you so much and like never really noticed it before. But yeah, like you keep eating and you're still hungry and you still like thinking, what am I going to eat next? Like I'm never like that.

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breakfast, lunch, and dinner. How are those? I mean, all of that was just so bad. It was just, like, slop, terrible. Could you get the, like, the vegan or veggie option? I know in most cases it's just, like, beans, but. Yeah, I think it's just the same, but without the meat. I don't even think, like, they replace it with anything. Or, like, maybe they'll give you more of, like, the disgusting thing that's already there. Like, if you, if you're vegetarian, they'll give you, like, double the oatmeal or something. I don't know. So now at your arraignment, do they give you a public defender or were you able to manage to set up a lawyer? I had, I guess I contacted the lawyer I'd been in touch with before. Like Todd, yeah, he was there. No, I don't think I ever had a public defender. Now, Todd's the one that

was always in the news during the trial and whatnot. Okay. How did you feel when the judge said no bail? What was going through your mind? I didn't know what, like, realized what was happening. I guess it did not really surprise me. Like if they were willing to extradite me, it's like they would give me no bail. I don't know. I didn't really have a concept of what was fair. Like I didn't have any expectations.

Just because I had no involvement in the criminal justice system whatsoever. So I did not like, oh, that's not fair. Like I should have had bail. Like I just had no idea what was going on. I remember Todd as like, well, you're going to Rosie's. And that's like the abbreviation for like Rose M. Singer Center, which is the, because Rikers is just an island. There's no such thing is like Rikers jail. I think it has about eight or something, eight to ten different facilities. And only one of them is for women. Everything else is like for like juveniles. I don't know, the shoe. I don't know, like elderly men or whatever, the hospital. But yeah, Rose and Singer is the all. only female facility. He's like, well, you're going there.

It's like, okay, I'll get in touch with you or something. Had you heard about Rikers before? I was aware it existed, but I thought it was mostly, like, from the movies. I don't know. Like, I didn't have any preconceptions or anything like that. I did not know what to expect at all. And I was not like, oh, I'm going to, like, one of this most notorious jails. in the New York area.

No. I'm just like, this is just so annoying. When they bring you there, what was your first interaction? Who do you see first? Is it processing? Do they have to reprocess you? Oh, yeah. Like, I just remember there were always so many people because the turnover was pretty

high because I got arrested in 2017. And back then, I don't know, they changed the laws that they're not allowed to set bail for nonviolent crimes. so they have to release you. Back then it was like you could do whatever or like the prosecutors could ask for whatever. So I think everyone got constantly arrested for like anything, especially like the repeat offenders. So the intake was full. It was a lot.

Like a lot of people, a lot of people who were like withdrawing from drugs. It was just like a lot going on. Literally like people sitting next to each other and like everyone is so stressed out and everyone is like has their own story and they're like complaining about something about like not having enough food or water or like wanting to get in touch with the kid like everyone is just on the edge so it kind of like takes your mind off like you're just focusing on like on the now right imagine like if we were sorry I'm not crying I'm just saying something in here I think I imagine like if we were here in the room and there were like 20 other people who are like

completely freaking out you don't really have the time to think like about your own problems. They're just like, what's next and like, how do we get out of here? Or there are also like people who've been here before and they're trying to like explain you what's happening or like what's going on or like they talk to the officers. So yeah, it's kind of like that. How old are you when you first got to Rikers? 26. Were you afraid?

I wouldn't say it was afraid just because I did not really know what to expect. but I didn't really seem like much violence from like the get-go. And also when I saw the same officers that I knew from my own environment, the way they interact with men, especially when we were going to court, it was so different, I guess because they're physically afraid of them. Like not afraid, but like a big male, like a male can do more damage than a female. So they treat females more like a joke. I don't know, like, oh, what can you do to me?

and it's like an armed guard. So they tend to be friend there just because of like the personal perception and they're less scared of you. So I think it changes a lot in their attitude. How did you feel going through the whole squat and cough experience? I personally never felt like anyone was enjoying it. Like it feels like most of the officers that I had

they were like, like whatever, just our job. Nobody is like, oh, spread it wider. So I don't know. It was kind of like perfunctory. It was never like perverse. I don't know. And it's always female officers that make you do?

Always, yeah. Yeah, you would hope so. Something that's interesting about the whole squat and cough thing is that no matter how famous you are in society, everyone goes through that experience, no matter who you are in prison. I didn't think it was the worst part. you get desensitized and you kind of like oh whatever I had like when you go to trial and you go to court every day you had to do it twice a day so you just like whatever and what do they hand you after you get through processing what's like your bundle of items to go back to wherever unit they're taking you to it's definitely a roll and it's like this gray blanket I guess the sheets towel toothbrushes and the soap from what I remember. And the comp, those like nasty little comb.

And the cup. They love those cups. The green cup. The mug? Yeah. Yeah. Do they give you a spoon to like a spork? Or that's something they did in the feds?

No. No, no, not right? It's because they would give you like a plastic fork with every meal. Yeah. But I saw them somewhere. What did you think of the hygiene products? Like the soap, the shampoo, everything that they give you. not from commissary, just what they hand you.

I mean, it's like it's insane that stuff like this even exists. And I never expected to be as excited about having like a dove or painting product like ever in my life, like something that I don't use or like scoff I had in real life. Like the dove soap was like the ultimate luxury. It was the most expensive one on the commissary list. And yeah, you could trade dev soaps too. You were like it's the rich girl soap. Because everything else in comparison, I don't know.

Like you use the core craft, you know what core craft is? No. It's correctional craft. I think it's a New York thing. But that's what it was called like a New York core craft soap. It's like this very, it's most like bleach. I don't know. Probably doesn't smell good.

It doesn't smell like anything, I think. It is like completely, like it also does not foam. I don't even know what it does. Now, tell us about the unit they bring you to after you're all processed. At Rikers, there is like an intake unit, I think, where you have to spend like a week or two. Quarantine, it was not quarantine. I don't know what they do to you. I don't remember.

Like a classification, I think. based on your mental health and I guess your violent history, and then they put you in like in a different unit later on. Yeah, I guess that's where you do like all the tests and the medical and mental health evaluation. Yeah, and they like reclassify you. How was your mental health at that point? What I really hated the first time when they took me to court,

like being on that bus, and it cuffed me to like this huge woman. and I was like a double person, like a little cell, and I felt so close to phobic. I think I got better then, but that first time I thought I was going to lose my mind because it's like I'm a pretty close to a phobic person. Like I just don't like to be like squeezed. Like I can be in one room and I'd be by myself if there's like nothing going on. That's fine.

Like I can be in a cell. I'd rather be in a cell than a dorm. But I cannot be like physically squeezed. Has that always been a thing or just when you got to prison that kind of triggered it? I don't know. I remember when I was little and like my dad would like make a burrito out of me with a blanket. I found it to be so stressful. Like I thought I was going to die.

Like I just can't be like physically like squeezed. I hate that. And that's what happened when they cuffed me to that woman. And she started falling asleep and she was like the bus is pretty rough because there's just like a bunch of metal. And she was like leaning. on me and it was so terrible. Like, I freaked out. Like, I do not ever put me on that bus ever again. And they're just like, no, here, take some Benadryl. And I guess I came back and then my bed was flipped and I was like, who did this? It was like, oh, nobody did this to you. It was just like a search.

A record as they do searches. Sometimes they just come randomly and like flip yourself. And if you're not there to put it away. Like, it's just, like, there. Like, imagine, like, coming back and, like, your bed is, like, all over the place. And it's just, like, so, I'm like, Jesus Christ, it's such a zoo. Did they give you a cellmate or are you sell-up alone? And now at Rikers, it was a dorm. Okay. So it's just a bunch of women bunk beds or single beds? It was single beds, like, next to each other like this. And one of bunk beds? The bathroom's private, like a private area or group showers or how was that laid out? I think in Rikers, no, it was pretty open.

There were no doors. There were like stalls, but without doors. I was crazy when I actually think back at it. And the showers, they were open, but it was usually, like, not that many people showered there. So it's usually like if somebody is using the shower, you don't just go in it. Like, it's a wild thing to do to, like, just go into. shower when somebody's showering. It's like, it's a pretty aggressive move.

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I mean, showering with slippers. Like actual slippers? I mean, you could not just like go into the shower and stand there. Like you wouldn't want to do that. But you had, I guess shower slippers. Oh, like flip-flops. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What else?

Like having those buckets. shower buckets when you, like, go and, like, take your stuff and you're in a shower. What else? I don't want you to think about it. I haven't been to Rikers in such a long time. How would you compare L.A. to Rikers? I think Rikers was better. So in Rikers, they're, like, basically two setups that are older buildings where there are cells.

And there are newer buildings, which are dorms. So I did everything that I could to, like, stay in the cells. It's like I found it to be so much better. And I also like I don't like to be in a dorm. I don't want to socialize. And I don't mind like being locked in. How are the other woman in the dorm with you? In an intake, it's like different because everyone there is new.

Like there's no, like there are no cliques. There like no hierarchy. Like there's nothing because everyone just everyone is there for like a week or two or whatever long. When you go into a regular door, Like, some people have been there for years. So, like, obviously, they're, like, cliques and friends and groups. I don't know. It's fine.

It's like I never, I was lucky to that I was in at Rikers when I was old enough, kind of, like, to know who I am. I know that girls who are, like, 19, 20, they don't really know who they are. And, like, they fall, like, they need this whatever jail mom, like the little click. and like they're very prone to like join the little gangs and I don't know. I think like people like react to what you like kind of gift to them. So I don't know. And I had a pretty like high profile case by the time I went to like Rikers. I guess I was like in all this newspapers.

So people like were aware I guess of who I was. And I don't know. Like a lot of it revolves around food as well. and like as long as you have like commissary money you'll be fine and like there will always be something who like needs anything so people would like do a lot and it's kind of sad because you cannot really be self-sufficient in jail at all like so unless you have somebody who's willing to put money on your books you just like won't have a book or a soap or whatever the noodles and there's nothing that you can do to like get it yourself so

you have to like trade or ask somebody else for it. So I don't know. What was the most popular item in there at Rikers, commissary-wise? Chips, Doritos. It like it depended on how scarce it was at commissary. It's like some people that would collect items because, you know, sometimes you would have like crunched Doritos, but then they would stop stalking them. So if you had like French Doritos from six months.

ago. That was a flex. And what would people use for currency to trade? Is it like just the stamps or is it just other commissary products or how would that work? I hear a lot about stamps. I did not really, like, nobody was writing that many letters. I don't know. I guess ramen is a big one. Chips, a lot of chips. Chips was like a dollar, I think, from what I remember. Did you ever have a woman in there come on to you at all or try, kind of try you in a way because of, you know, you're younger, you were a white girl in there. I mean, not like in an overly aggressive way. I mean, yeah, there are a lot of lesbians, definitely, yeah.

I'm basically, it's like they try to help you or they're, like, nice to you. Like, I met a lot of good friends who are, like, lesbians, yeah. When you were in there, did you have a boyfriend at all on the outside? No. Okay, so you were single going in there. Yeah. I mean, usually people, like most people. I'm not trying to catch another charge.

And when I got in, like, Priya was big. You know what Priya is? Prison rape elimination. Yeah. They make you, like, watch all these videos, and they give you, like, a questionnaire and, like, training. So they were really, really pushing it. And the way women were using it is, like, if I don't like you,

and, like, I don't want you to live in my unit, I'm just going to call 3-1-1 and say Priya. There's a chance that I'm the one who's going to get moved, Like they didn't want for people to abuse the system that way. It's like, oh, well, if you're so scared of whatever, Nancy, it's like, why don't you move? But that would be like a thing. Oh, go on. Yeah, it was like very easy to, like, you didn't have to like go to an officer and complain.

You like literally call this number and somebody would come and talk to you. And I guess whoever that the social worker, they would like determine if your claims were valid or not. but they usually would just, like, move you just to protect their assets. Like, what if something were to happen and you kept that person in a unit? Like, they just didn't want to take the risk. So that's how it usually was used. It's like if you're a couple and you are in a unit and you happen to live in a unit together, which was rarity because usually they catch on to you and they don't.

Like, even if it's consensual, they won't let you. Like, they're supposed to be no, like, sexual contact. contact whatsoever between inmates, even if like both of them agree, they'll usually separate you. So living together was a privilege so that like everyone would try to like stay in everyone's good graces because it's like if I don't like you too, I'll just call us like, hey, I think like, because you can call it on two other people too. Like you don't have to be the victim or whatever and they will separate you. Cold days, big goals, no time to cook. You guys know I'm big on routine. Jim, work.

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New subscribers only varies by plan. One free breakfast item per box for one year while subscription is active. How would you have described your personality in there? Were you more confident and aggressive or more shy and reserved? Definitely, I was not that confident or aggressive, no. I was just, I don't know, I was just minding my business. I was like one of the few white girls. I remember they would call me white girl.

It just says, like, a lot about how many other white girls they are. And a lot of other white women would be there for drugs. Usually, like, unfortunately, that's the main thing that they get arrested for. There are a few white people who are, like, there for something else. I don't know, like, Rikers is pretty racist. I don't know. I was, I guess I gained more confidence the longer I stayed there. And I saw other girls the way they interacted or, like, handled the roles.

It's like I was really adamant about where I wanted to live, like, in which unit. and what's the word stick up I think yeah it's like when you just refuse to go in you're just like you can be like oh I'm not going in there like move me they hate that but they can't really like apply force so I did that couple of times I guess or the uniform thing like they would ask you not to fold the pants you know like skinny jeans were like big and funny 17 or 18, and like, you just, like, the girls, like, taught me how to fold the pants. And I were like, oh, don't do it. That's how I got fired from the job.

It's like, unfold your pants. And I told the guy who was, it was, he's not even my boss or anything. He was just like a random officer. He's like, unfolded. I was like, you unfolded. I don't know. What's it to you? I was like, why do you care?

Like, what? We're already in jail. Like, why are you trying to make my life harder? and more miserable. What was your first call with your parents like while you were incarcerated? Oh, so it had to be through my embassy because you could not dial international members through that phone. So they had to set up like a Google number for me to call.

And I didn't really want to say much because like all the calls are monitored. I don't know. Like, yeah, my poor parents. I guess my embassy had to like send cops to my home. Wow. Because they cannot just call you if it's like bad news of like somebody's passing away or something happens to like your family member overseas. They don't just like, oh, hey, by the way, I guess they have to like send somebody. And I guess they send cops and afford my parents.

Were your parents shocked and surprised? I would imagine so. Yeah. I mean like no one from my family like has ever been a vet. or to have like my parents are pretty quiet. Like nothing crazy happens over there. And I could imagine just like hearing about my arrest. I guess I saw it from the news too eventually.

I don't know. I tried to like not to think about it too much because it's like, I don't know. It's not a pleasant thing to think about. Now when you're sitting in Rikers, eventually there's a article that gets published that kind of becomes the whole basis for Netflix and for everything. that really blows up. What was that like hearing about that article? Did you read it? How did you find out about it? Well, there were all the smaller articles about my arraignment. They give us the newspapers, but they try to remove all the articles about the inmates that are inside. I guess sometimes

they like they miss stuff, but they usually try like not to give you a newspaper, especially like if they know you in the unit. So like people would not gossip. But the way this happened was, I guess Jessica Presler was writing an article for New York Magazine and she was talking to me. And obviously she had to reach out to like everyone involved. So she reached out to Rachel. She refused to talk to her. And instead she thought, well, let me just write an article of my own and like beat her to it.

And I guess hers was first, but nobody really cared for vanity. Fair and then the New York Magazine article came out. What did you think of it? It took me a while to read it. I don't know. It was a pretty long one. Somebody had to bring me the magazine. And I just, I remember, like, I just had to skip through it, like, really quick.

Because, like, you kind of, like, want to know, like, oh, what are they writing next? Like, I only read it once that time. And then by that time, I had, like, not friend, like, friends. like friends, whatever, in the unit. And I'm like, well, here, read it for me. It was like, let me know what you think. And then I just like, I remember the girl. I mean, I know, they were probably biased because like they were friends. It's like, no, that's a good one. It's like they make you sound like a like a plug. That's what she said. I remember. Did people change their attitudes towards you in there for better or for worse once you became

more or have more noriety? I mean, Rikers is like very, very, isolated. How would they know? Like, by that time, I was in, like, high security buildings. Like, none of those girls have, like, access. Nobody has, nobody has a New York magazine subscription. So, like, how would they know unless I would tell them or, like, a guard would tell them, there's no. No way for them to know. So did they move you once you started to become famous in a way? No, I was already, like, in high security. And I was in a small building with, like, five or six other people. I just figured out the system and what was up. So I was like high security enough because I accumulated those smaller tickets. But you have to be like high security in order

to be in the cells. So I made sure to kind of maintain it that way because when you're low security, you have to be in the dorms. And I was like, I'm not moving back to the dorms. Now in a high security unit, do you witness violence among women? No. Because they usually all know each other. And that's what they do. Like a lot of women who've been there many times or for a long time. So security knows who gets along with home. And they like nobody wants to deal with fights and moving people because it's like problematic and annoying for them. They much rather like watch whatever they do like all day, right? They much rather not come because they have to like dress up like in a turtle suit and whatever do the pepper spray thing. Like they're

I'd rather you not fight either. So usually if you're like a problematic inmate or like, you know the security squad, they'll move you with people that you get along with. Now, with your case, do you decide to take a plea deal or do you go to trial? I went to trial. Why do you decide trial? Because I thought that my charges were like outlandish and the way I've been described, like in my indictment, which is obnoxious. and that's just like not what happened at all. And I hate like the term, the fake heiress.

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Real California milk. Me and I just like completely hated it. Now going to trial when you're detained, explaining to the audience what that's really like, the back and forth on the bus, what you're going through each and every day, you have to show up in trial. Because the audience only sees you at trial,

but they don't see what's going on before and after. Oh yeah. And another big reason is like because of rage, the woman, I was like, there's no way I'm taking a plea deal and agreeing, like, I stole whatever, $65,000 from you. Like, that was just, like, the way her behavior was just so outlandish to me, especially that she asked, she suggested we write a book together while I was still incarcerated. her agent reached out to my lawyer and my lawyer was like, you are delusional, you're pressing criminal

charges against Anna and you want to write a book with her. Like, you're not even allowed to talk to her. So that was another reason. But yeah, when you go to trial, like first of all, by that point, I was in Rakers for like a year and a half, I think, something like that. And it's just so boring because nothing happens. So like once you get to go to court every day and like wear regular clothes, like at least something is happening. You're just like so bored and tired of just the sameness. So I guess that's like the most positive thing about it.

The other part is like you have to wake up, I think like six in the morning. And yeah, you leave like about seven and you are, it's the same thing every day. you get like squat, strip, strip and cough, whatever you call it. You sit in a cell, you get on the bus, like you get shackled, you sit with, like, all this people. The most annoying part about it, my court, the Supreme Court, was in the same place as the drug court. It's like people who got special programs if they, like, were at it. So a lot of girls I went to court with, they were on methadone. But they usually give you methadone at Rikers like in an afternoon, but because they would be in court,

they would give it to them in the morning. And what happens when you take methadone, it makes you talk a lot. So it was every time, like they would talk so much. It was just like a never-ending stream of like consciousness. this, it was exhausting. And I would, like, talk about anything. And I was like, you have to put me in a cell by myself, please. It would, like, not always be the case.

So, like, it would just be so annoying. I was like, I'm already on trial. Can you please shut up? Like, what else? Yeah, you would, like, get on a bus. You would arrive in court. They would put you in a cell. Like, when you're on trial, trial.

because before there's like a pretrial motions and that's pretty slow because you just like sit in that cell and then you wait until it's your turn because a pretrial motion does not take all day so you don't know when you're going to get called. Then a jury selection, that's like pretty like that's when it gets going and like when you're actually on trial like you're there from like 930 until they let you go. So that's like you don't really sit in the cell too much. Tell us about the outfits. That was such a huge part of the news and the trial. Yeah. Well, the rule at Rikers is that you are allowed a new outfit every day because you're literally wearing the same thing from like seven in the morning until 10 at night.

And it's just like you were everywhere on a dirty bus, you're in a dirty cell. Like it's just disgusting. like if they forced you to wear it the same thing every day. But the issue was once you leave Rikers, they take you off the count. So you're like not the inmate anymore. You are the inmate of the transportation or whatever, MDC of the court. And when somebody would come and tried to bring my outfit, so it's like, well, she's not our inmate.

So we cannot accept anything for her. I was like, in which world does this make any sense? it's like the rules that you created, but now you're like, you cannot accept clothes for me. And like, you know I'm not going home from court. Like, I'm in the middle of trial. There's just no scenario when I'm just like getting released in a middle of trial. So I asked them, it's like I already have somebody who is bringing me close. Why can't you just accept them?

I'm not asking for much. And then it's like your fault. Like your rules do not make any sense because there's such stickler for those rules. And it's like, you make us follow the rules. why don't you follow yours. So I don't know. It made like total sense to me. I guess they blew it out of proportion like with the media.

But like for me it was the matter of principle to you. I was like, what's it to you? Yeah, the media spun it as you refused, I think, to go to court unless you got the outfits or something like that. Well, what happens is like when you don't have an outfit of your own, they would give you the white shirt and pants. And that's just like completely wrinkled stuff. It's also men get the same. and stuff as women. It's like different sizing. And I'm like, why would you make me want to go through this if I have my clothes right there in audience? All you need to do is like run them for the security.

Why wouldn't you like do this for me when we already try to follow your rules? And that's like the only thing that you have control over that you, the one thing that you have to like kind of feel good about yourself. It's like I don't want to go out like in public. First of all, you already have like horrible hair because you don't really have any like you don't have any tools whatsoever. There is like a beauty parlor, but you cannot really go there during the week because not only open during the week. And it's usually it's meant more for like black girls because they can get their hair straightened like once a week or two. But like white girl hair. like you have to wash it every two, three days. I don't know, more often, especially like when

you're like in a dirty, in dirty court on the bus all the time. So you already look ugly, no makeup. There is no makeup at Rikers. So it's like that's the only thing that you have to like feel better about yourself and they try to deny it. Do you think that that moment in history helped your brand later on? I mean, I wasn't really thinking about like history or brand. I'm like, just let me get through the day. And like, it's just so awful because I was on trial for pretty long time. I think it was a month or so. Yeah. It was not, it was four days a week. Did you testify yourself or no? No. No. I kind of wanted to, but then my lawyers said, like, don't do it. It's kind of hit or miss. I testified in my trial. Yeah. But it is,

it really depends on the case. Yeah. Tell us about the day of the verdict, leading up to that, how long they were deliberating and then hearing the verdict itself. It was pretty long, I think. I think it's, I had to like go home, go to jail and then come back. I don't remember, but it was not that quick. Yeah, because I had like multiple counts too. So I guess that's what it took. I guess the first one, like they make you stand up and they read you.

Like the four person reads the verdict. and my first one was not guilty and I'm like, yeah, keep it going. And then the second one, they say guilty and I was like, that's it. My life is over because it's kind of hard. Like once they find you guilty of one, like you may as well be found guilty of all of them. Like in terms of time, I think that was like that's, I knew that by that point. So, and I kind of was not really listening to the rest because they say count three, count four. And like when you're in that situation, like you don't really realize, I guess.

I guess they tell you what the count is. Because I remember, like, Rachel was not guilty. And I was like, yes. But it was tainted by the guilty other ones. So I don't know. I was not happy about it. Do you get sentenced that day or do you go back to Rikers? Yeah, you go back.

I think, like, for me, it took two weeks. Yeah. Because it's also pre-sentencing investigation. and they have like a parole officer or whoever come and like talk to you. And for them to write your evaluation, you collect letters from your, whatever, your support system. Yeah, now it takes a while. How are you feeling and what are you thinking about at that point in time? Do you think you're going to get a lengthy sentence?

By that time, I had a lot of time in. I was in for like 19 months. And my maximum would have been. So my max was five to five. 15 for every count. But I guess like the odds of me getting consecutive sentences were like very low because I'm not like the worst person out there. I was hoping for like two to six. I don't know.

My offer was three to nine. I thought they would give me three to nine again, but they gave me four to twelve because of all the media. and the judge said, I need to, like, show your followers, like, this behavior is not okay. Like, I had no role, like, in anything that was going on out there. Like, nobody was posting on my Instagram. Obviously, I did not have any access to the internet. The only interview I gave to that day was New York Magazine one. Like, I did not engage with the media at all.

So I just did not think it was fair to make an example out of me. Just because there were memes and whatever Netflix series about me, like I should not be punished for it because it was not, it's not like I was out there selling my story or trying to like make anything happen like in the entertainment industry. So I thought it was like unfair and like hateful. But I don't know, what were you going to do? I had like more than half of the time in.

What's a four to 12 sentence me in New York? So basically when you do at least four years and the maximum, it's 12. So you have to be released two thirds of the way and like spend it on parole unless to just like keep doing like Hina staff in prison when you like beat people up or like doing assault and officers. I don't know. It's like it's hard to like have to do the max. So, and I did three years, four months, because you get, like, time off for, like, good behavior in, like, the programs or something like that. Do you get to spend the rest of your time at Rikers or do they move you somewhere else? No, once you get sentenced, like, you go to an actual prison.

And where did they send you? So I was in Bedford for classification. So every female that's been sentenced in the state of New York goes to Bedford, which is maximum security prison. That's not that far from here. Yeah. Bedford, New York? Yeah. Wow.

You might have even passed there. I was passing the whole time when I was living in Cold Spring. Yeah. I haven't been since. But then they classified me to the medium prison in Albion, which is all away by Canada. So how long is it take to go from Rikers to Bedford and then to your final location? I think Rikers to Bedford is an hour. so, hour and a half. Bedford to Albion, it's a trip. It's probably, I don't know, like seven,

eight hours, something like that, especially with like all the stops and, like, shackles and bathroom breaks. Yeah, it's a terrible trip. How many months you're in Bedford for? Is it quick, or are you there for a little bit? I was there for, like, less than a month, probably. I really wanted to stay there, too, because I ended up knowing so many people there because it's basically when you in Rikers for such a long time, you like end up meeting people who either end up going to Bedford or there are people in Bedford who have to go to Rikers because they have open cases. And if you have to go to court, you go from Bedford to Rikers. So I just like, obviously I knew a lot of people there and I really wanted to stay.

But you can't just like pick your prison, I guess. I was really unhappy that they brought me all the way up there. Because also, like, I'm from the city. Every one of my friends are in the city. Like, who wants to go to Albion, which is like, yeah, seven or eight hours away? Now, by the time you get there, what do you have about a year on your sentence left? So you never know because you still have to go to parole board. So it would be up to them to decide if you're, like, reformed enough.

So you had no idea how long you would actually have to be there? No. Yeah. And it's, like, crazy how comfortable you have to get with, like, uncertainty because you would go. I would, like, have my parole date. but you never know what they're going to say. What's the difference between there and Rikers? Well, in prison, you are the property of the state.

In Rikers, it's just, in Rikers, you can be sentenced. I think if you were being sentenced for anything under one year, and it's usually like a misdemeanor charge. It was not me. And Rikers, basically the main goal is like to keep you alive until your next court date, because there's a reasonable doubt that you're not going to show up, like, because you don't have bail or, yeah, they did not give you bail, as in my case. In prison, yeah, your property of the state, you have to, like, do what to tell you to. Was it hard to fit in or adapt when you got to that new location that you would be spending the rest of your time in?

I mean, I ended up, like, knowing a lot of people just because, like, how prison works. It's like a lot of people, like, sadly, it's like a revolving door. Like, I either knew them from Rikers or, like, yeah, I already, like, yeah, from Rikers or, like, they just came back. So I had, like, a couple friends. I mean, obviously, there's, like, a different group there, but it's not complete, like, strange, completely strange world. That's different officers, like a different mentality, upstate different, totally, yeah. For better or for worse? I think for worse, like a lot more country, I would say officers, like a lot of white officers, while at Rakers, a lot of them are like Hispanic or black.

And people, I guess, are just like cooler in the city, country, they're like, they're kind of like more, I don't know how to say. Like, I don't know. They're like more preconceived. I don't know. It's like a little bit. There's only one job, like two jobs, like Walmart or the prison or the farm, I guess, the third one. Yeah. Now, do you get your own cell there or is that dorm too?

In there, it's, they have cubes. So it's like a mix of a cell in a dorm. And how would you compare the food there to Rikers or is it the same because it's by the state? So there's also a mess hall and they serve you food. I mean, it's like run by a different person. So I guess it just depends who like runs it. But different commissary and they can, you can get your own food. I think you can have up to 35 pounds a month from what I remember sent to you,

divided like a maximum of two packages. So you cannot get like two pounds of food every day. Wait, like food from the street? Yeah. Like someone could send you a cheeseburger? And it has to be either pre-packaged, like candy or like chips, or it has to be like fresh produce. What would you get in if you got in anything? I would get like a lot of protein bars, some produce too.

It's like just hard to keep it fresh because there obviously no fridges. So you had to like get an ice bucket. An ice bucket is like a lot of work. I don't even know how like sanitary it is. I guess that was illegal too. So they basically would like sell garbage bins, but they would not even sell them anymore. So you would like have to inherit them from like a person who left. So it was like a flex to have a garbage bin.

There would be an ice machine. So you would have to like change the ice twice a day to keep your food fresh. What were some hustles women would create like, say making cheesecakes or ice cream or a nail polish or a hair product? Would any woman have those types of hustles there? I mean, I guess the biggest one would be, like, cleaning. What else? Like, maybe hair doing. What I would, like, what other services I would use is definitely, like, cleaning.

I don't like to clean. I was a porter on a unit. I was, like, in an anadorn for a bit, and then there would be no porters there because for whatever reason. and everyone would have like a cleaning duty. And I'm like, I'm not cleaning. So you would just like pay somebody in cigarettes. So I'd state, yeah, there's cigarettes.

How much would you get paid by the prison for a job? Oh, I never really made it far. I like got fired from a lot of jobs. So like Switch, they also determined you pay by like the length of how long you did it. I never made more than $10 in two weeks. because you get paid in two weeks, I think. And would you get visits from friends? Yeah.

I mean, not so much in Albion because it just was so far away. I guess, yeah, much less than in Rikers. But in Albans, we would have tablets and we would have video calls. No, that was not an Alban. It was a different jail. But, yeah, you'd be able to, first of all, like, speak for much longer. there would be like 30 minute phone calls. And yeah, you could message.

That would like make so much difference. Would you watch TV in prison? No, not really. Like hardly. Sometimes like I had a, like some of my friends like they liked the 6pm news and TMZ. And that was like a ritual. Like sometimes I would like watch the news. Is somebody like, yeah, already had like the devs on the TV.

but I don't really care for TV. You also have a tablet and you can rent the movies. So it's much easier to just watch it on your... When you watch? Tablet. It was like in the very early stages when I was there. So they had like kind of older movies. But yeah, yeah, I watched a lot.

Did you have a favorite? I wouldn't have a favorite, but I watched a lot, definitely. Like, you know, Pluto TV? Yeah, I've heard of Pluto. Yeah, I think. So they have that, yeah. They also make so much money because they charge you by the minute. Yeah, I think it's like 35 cents a minute, like to use Internet.

Now, how do you compare the cleanliness there to the other jails you got to experience Rikers and say L.A., was it cleaner or was it dirtier? Or was the living conditions like? I guess it depends, like, on the people who live there because that's the people. who clean it. I guess in terms of newness, I don't know. Like even at Rikers, there would be different units. Like some of them would be newer.

Some of them would be older. And like if there's like a bunch of dirty women that live in there, like it will be dirty. Yeah, it just depends. I don't know. It's like different types of shitty, I would call it. Would you say most women in there are hygienic or not hygienic? I would say 70% of them would be pretty clean. I don't know.

Like a lot of people with mental illness too. Like some of them would hoard. But I guess like as in every prison you would have searches too. So it's like they would not really get a chance to like accumulate too much for too long. You never know. It's like it's a hit or miss. Now since you were into style and say fashion, And did you ever alter your prison clothes at all or buy off kind of the market type clothes?

Yeah, definitely. Well, I give you a couple of sets of, like, your uniforms. And it's the same stuff. Men get the same things as women. The only difference are the sizes. And they would also sell like a sewing kit. But it's only purpose. It's like if you're a short person, you would like tailor your pants.

You're not allowed to, like, alter them. But obviously we'll like experiment. with clothes. So I, um, what I did, I basically put my uniforms from inside out and like I retraced my body contours and I would like sew it based on the, whatever that tracing. And the uniforms looked amazing. That's how I kind of like found out. Like not find out. It just, tailoring just matters so much. Like I just did not realize how much difference it makes, right? even when you're wearing like polyester clothing. But if it's like really, really nicely fitted, like it still looks fine.

But they made me take it out. Do you have any of those clothes to that? Did you get to bring any home? No. Have you ever thought of like selling a line of prison outfits and starting like a trend? I don't think anyone wants to look like they're in prison. No, they make you give it back. I think I have a pair of shorts from like one of the jails that I managed.

I don't know how I did it, but I don't even know where they are. Now, your passion for art that you have after prison, did that come from being in prison? I was always involved, I guess, in art world one way or another. Not really as an artist myself when I was on the outside, but I guess being in jail kind of gave me the time and, I don't know, space of mind to like explore it on my own. I guess I took fashion illustration when I was in Parsons in Paris. So I know like the basics of sketching and that's how I came up with like the idea of making my own sketches. Yeah. Because I didn't want to put anything in words because everything would be like used against me.

So it's really hard to, I guess, yeah, express yourself or like be creative while still being. And even when you're in prison, you don't want to like say too much. because you're looking forward to your parole board and you don't want to say anything that would make them change your mind and like, obviously I wanted to go free. So it's like I did not give any interviews. So the only outlet would be pretty much like drawing because it would be harder for them to use drawing against you.

What was the hardest aspect for you about prison? I guess not being like self-sufficient and not being able to do anything for yourself. Like as I said, you can't really make any money. and even that, like even if you have money, like you cannot really spend it on anything, literally having to ask for everything. And like if somebody does not send you like this book, then you don't have a book. There is no way for you to like buy it yourself like clothes. It would be so difficult. So we were allowed to get our own clothes from the outside, but it had to be one uniform

color. They cannot be, I don't know, like a gray shirt with white stitching. It has to be one color. And it would be like different colors that would be banned like upstate and at Rikers. I think at Rikers, it was, at Rikers you only are allowed white, gray and pink. While upstate, you cannot have orange, blue, black, something like that, like the cob collars. Pool days call for cookouts and lots of laundry. This Memorial Day at Lowe's save $80 on a Charbroil performance series for burner gas grill.

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Seasite for details. No gang collars, I think. I don't know. I don't remember. Were there a lot of women in gangs in the actual prison? No, I mean, they would say they were. But I think gangs are like more the main thing. They were, like I know with males, they're like units separated by gangs.

There's no such thing with females. I think women just don't care that much, even though they say they do. And I think from what I experienced, they just, they're in whatever gang their boyfriend is if they are in one. But they're not, like, if you have blood, I'm like, when I'm a crib, like, we're still going to be living each other, like, in, like, in one unit. Tell us about parole. Do you get parole on the first go ahead? Yes, I did, yeah. What's a parole hearing like?

They give you a date, and I guess you show up. You're, like, wear a nice shirt. They quoted my interview, like, one of the interviews I made, like I did in New York. times like the interview that I gave like kind of against my will because the reporter just showed up and I was upset about that I don't know they just like asked me the obvious stuff

I don't know I don't remember much about it it was such a long time I go to when you get parole do you get released automatically that day or is it no they give you a date too I think it's like two or three months away. No, it's like none of that takes. What was your plan for when you got out of prison? What were you thinking? So I was still dealing with immigration. And I mean, as I am to this day, dealing with immigration. It was right before Biden took office. And I swear coming to see me.

I was like, well, you overstayed. Like, obviously I overstayed because I was in jail. So I did not know what was going to happen to me. Then Biden took office end of January of 2021. Then he put moratorium on all deportations and especially on violent crimes. So then ice comes two days before my release saying like, well, you're not a priority. We're going to parole you as well into the city. Just like give us the address and report whatever in March, which was like six weeks away. So I had to figure everything out in two days. Then, yeah, I was released for six weeks, and then I was redetained me when I went for my scheduled check-in.

Why did they decide to redetain you? I don't know. Like, I did not violate any of the conditions. Like, they were not really, not from the ice side. They were just like, don't leave the state and, like, don't kill anyone. I don't know. I guess because they could. And I kind of went, like, on a media spree when I got released.

I don't know. It was pretty wild because I was, at that point, I was incarcerated for three years, four months. And I, like, I got my phone, like, the second I got released. I was on Twitter, Instagram. I was, like, everywhere. I, like, obviously, like, ended up doing all this interviews. Whoever, like, asked. I don't know.

It's just, like, wild. How did it feel to get locked up again after six weeks of freedom? I was like, I can't believe this is happening to me again. especially like it's not like I've done anything. I was like, why did you release me? Like nothing changed, right? And I had to like start to rebuild my life. I got an apartment. I remember just moved in because at first I lived in a hotel. But then my parole officer told me it's like, well, you cannot be in a hotel because they cannot just like come up to you. You have to go to like for the front desk, even though you cannot really come up anywhere in like in New York. You have to

like either ring whatever, the intercom or you have a dormant. Like it's really hard to just like show up to somebody's apartment unannounced in any setting. But they just didn't want me to like live in a hotel. It's like, well, if you don't find an appropriate housing by March 1st or whatever it was like, you'll have to go to a shelter. And I'm like, oh no. Now I'm not. Now I'm not. not going to a shelter. So I found, luckily, it was like a short-term, like, leasing. It was like COVID in the middle of COVID, like in 2021. So, yeah. And I just moved in. I, like, situated myself. I, like, started, like, working on things. And then I just, like, went there. They vegetate me. And I was like, oh, my gosh, it's just, like, more. Like, when it's your first time, you kind of, like, shocked and you're trying to figure.

out like what's happening to you when you're there for like the second time it's just like oh my fucking god not this again now around this time is this when the netflix documentary or series is coming out it was like a year before that so while you were in actual prison prison it came out now it came out when it was in ice detention oh when you were an ice okay so they redidained me end of march of 2021 and Netflix came out in February of 2022 did they approach you while you're in prison about it? By that point, they already got everything out of me that they wanted. I think it was like a post-production by that point.

They paid you for your involvement in that. Yeah. I think a lot of people don't realize that you paid back all your restitution. Yeah, yeah, from it. Yeah, like I paid my restitution back while I was still like in criminal prison. Yeah. So no one's owed money by you. No.

And it's a little bit interesting that no one reports that. Yeah, they don't care about that. I think that. That's just how media works. Like, people don't care to read about you, like, being good or, like, normal or regular they want to see you commit crimes or be crazy. It's like, you know, that's why, like, they're no famous philanthropists. I don't know. Like, nobody wants to write about that. Like, nobody wants to, yeah, they don't care. What was an iced detention center like for you? I actually ended up knowing people there as well widely because it's just they put me in a county jail. Like they brought me to New Jersey first, but then they moved me to Orange County.

Because back then there were so few female eyed detainees. They mixed you with like regular criminal inmates, especially if you had like a criminal background yourself. So I was like one of them, maybe like five. other ice girls, and we just, like, lived in a regular unit with other criminal detainees. And I ended up knowing a couple of them from prison, because I ended up, like, violating parole or, like, catching new charges. So they ended up, like, in a county jail again. I mean, that was, like, different, too. It's, like, very small. You could not go outside other than, like, the small yard. They did have, like, a much better tablet, though. Yeah, I saw, I think you did a couple interviews

from a tablet. On that video, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like a bit of a different tablet system, but yeah. Were conditions harsher? It's kind of the same, very similar to Rikers, I would say, like a much smaller jail because obviously it's like our Orange County. Yeah, no, it was like very debilitating. But there it was a bit different because I knew that I could have like self-deported.

So it was like wild. I kind of was there by choice in a way because I could have like be free in Europe. So I was trying to fight the case and like get out on bail. So it was not, well, it's like if you think it's so fucking bad, just leave, right? Now, what was your mindset in there? Were you planning on getting out and staying? What were the lawyers telling you?

What was going through your mind? So I ended up spending, what, 18 months in ICE jail? And I was never planning on staying there that long because, there it was always like well maybe in a week and a two like there's going to be some answer or judgment or like a hearing something was always about to happen but like in the end i ended up spending so much time in there and at some point i was like i was already so deep in it's like i might as well like double down right and uh i already spent all this time and all this money um fighting it like at which point do you just give up, right? And I really wanted to stay because I thought it was

like not fair. And like luckily I don't like I don't have kids. My parents are in good health. Like there's nobody out there who like needs needs me to survive. So I'm and like seeing other women who have like I don't know older parents or who are like yeah kids like it's really heartbreaking. They can't like afford just to stay in jail just because they want to like fight the case or they just like the kids need them to like survive or they're going to like end up in a system so what happened to the life you were able to rebuild in those six weeks in between prison and ice do you lose everything in the apartment i mean yeah i was like all in the it was all gone i mean like i like i had my friend so it was tricky it's like because i did not want to like believe that i was not getting

out i was like i just got this apartment i um like unpacked everything everything was so great And like at which point do I like stop, like tell them like I'm not coming back because it was a short term rental like month by month. So I guess I paid for another month. And then my lawyer like, well, you're just like stupid. That's like it was a lot of money because it was a furnished short term rental. Just like we'll have somebody pack it all up and like put it in a storage and just like do not pay for it. So that was like a heartbreaking decision to make. because it's like, well, I'm not coming back there.

Yeah, like I'm lucky. You have like amazing friends. They packed up my whole apartment. I guess one of my friends, she has like a townhouse in New Jersey. So the majority of my staff was there. And yeah. What was it like for the series to come out while you were in the ICE detention center? I don't know.

I was like so removed from it. Like that was not of my concerns. really. I just did not really realize the consequences. I don't know. I was just there and I was just trying to like fight my immigration case. And like, I don't know. It like it was not me. It was just kind of like such a thing that's like so far away from like who I am. It was so far away from my reality. Are you happy that the series happened? I know you've said you haven't watched it, but overall are you happy? Maybe not with the product, but that the act of it itself. It was kind of out of my control. That's the reason I agreed to be a consultant on it because my lawyer said, well, they're going to do it with or without you. Like, as you may know, once you make a part of a criminal case, the story becomes like public. So they don't really need your permission to like do anything about you. Right. So they could have just made it without me. So I don't know. Like it's out of my control.

When that came out, did you get a lot of fan mail or calls or people sending you commissary maybe? Yeah, yeah. There was always a lot of that. I guess the officers kind of knew what it was. But I don't know. Like, I was not on social media. Obviously, I was in jail. Like, I did not really care about it.

And it's like, well, I saw, or whatever, like my friends who were like, oh, this is happening, that's happening and, like, all your Instagram followers. But, like, once it's not your life. you like don't care. Now, how 18 months you said you spent an ice, then they finally, what release you on the ankle monitor? I had multiple bond hearings. I went for like so many lawyers. I finally found the lawyer that I have now,

like John Sandwick with Nixon P.Badi and Catherine Hunstead, like shout out to them. I had this, I don't know, two-day-long bond hearing where the, the government, like, obviously tried to use everything that I said against me and just, like, they paint you in, like, in the worst light. But nothing I've ever done. Like, I never committed any violent crimes and, like, my physical freedom was never, like, relevant. Like, I could technically commit whatever similar crimes being, like, in Zimbabwe.

I don't know. Like, I don't need to be physically present anywhere to, like, technically to commit any of this. So, and I don't know why I've been put on house arrest because, yeah, like, what am I going to do? How long have you been on the ankle monitor for? Since October of 2020. When you first got on the ankle monitor, were you embarrassed by it? Did you try to hide it? I was on house arrest, so who would I be hiding it from now?

I don't think, like, in my scenario, why should I be embarrassed for having it? because there are different reasons somebody would have an ankle monitor, like DWI or, I don't know, like absconding. And it's just like the same as being ashamed of like not being American or not having American passport. I think like anyone with like two brain cells to rub together would see like why should I be embarrassed. Like if I was American, I would have never been red detained in 2021 and I would never have an ankle bracelet. It's like, why should I be ashamed just for the fact of my, like, birth? I don't know. I think it's really cool how it's out there and it's like a part of the brand and the image and you glam it up and everything.

I mean, I don't have a choice. It's like I cannot, it's not like I wake up every morning and put it on and just like it is what it is. It's also, I mean, other people think it's like funny and cool and kind of like I'm being pushed in this narrative. I don't know. I'd rather not have it, but I'm also not going to hide it. It's also interesting to see it's like when I'm wearing something longer, it's just like, oh, you're so ashamed and that's why you're hiding it. But like if it's out, then I'm flaunting it.

So there is no middle. And I'm just like, whatever, it is what it is. If you think that's something to be ashamed of for having like an ankle bracelet for immigration, then I don't know what to tell you. Does it stay on you 24-7? Do you have to shower with it or are there periods of time it can come off? Yeah, it's water resistant. So I don't think you can summarize.

merge it too deep for too long. But yeah, I've been swimming with it. I've been in a pool, in an ocean. Obviously, I shower. Take bath, yeah. Does it have a mental toll on you? No, I wouldn't say it does. No.

And it's also like sometimes it breaks and they change it. So I did not have the same bracelet for like three years. So it's like a new device. I'd rather not have it. but it's like I kind of don't notice it anymore. I charge it like once a day. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

I just like try to not define myself by my ankle bracelet. Have they been giving you any timeline of how long it'll take for everything to play out? It just depends on the immigration. It's like because it's not criminal. Like I'm not sentenced to an ankle bracelet. So just for like who knows, I really don't know what's going to happen. What do you think is the public's biggest misconception about you.

I guess everything. I guess the whole motivation while why I committed the crimes that I did, I guess my whole personality, I guess they made, just created a caricature out of me. But I think it's not unique to me. I think it's just like everyone who's on the spotlight just ends up in a same, like in a similar position. So I don't want to be like the sit here and complain or poor me and like nobody gets me. It's just it is what it is.

I don't know. I think it's up to me to like prove the world that or like to do something more with my life and something different and not like hopefully I won't be defined by this story for the rest of my life. How have you been able to rebuild your life and your new identity after getting out of the ice facility in 2022? I was on house arrest for the longest time, I think another 19 months, I think until August of 24. God, in those years, that was pretty tough. I think it's almost easier to be in jail when you're like removed from the society and you don't even have the options to do like anything than like being on house arrest and like kind of being so close to. the world, but not being able to, like, participate. It's like being handicapped.

Yeah, I'd like, don't wish this on anyone. I mean, I'd still, like, take house arrest over being in jail, but I would not take house arrest over being free. So that was pretty difficult, obviously, because it's just like, you cannot go anywhere. You have to do everything, like, within the constraints of your apartment, like, not being able to use social media was really annoying too. I mean, looking back, like, I'm glad I was not like thrown into that again, because like when you're when you're not able to use social media and you just get everything at

once, it can be like overwhelming. I don't know. That's like one of the reasons I'm also happy I was denied bond because thinking back, like, what if I were out on bond? like, what would I be doing? Like, just Googling myself, like, all day, especially, like, if you don't really have anything out there about you. And, like, the only thing that's out there is negative. It's pretty difficult. Like, at least then, I was at Rikers, and I was kind of, like, focusing on getting through the day and, like, surviving there. And at least I had, like,

my time that was counting towards my sentence. So, like, in the end, it kind of made sense, right? it was not wasted. Do you feel like you've already been able to achieve redemption in your mind and your world? Yeah, I mean, I think my intentions were never to defraud anyone and like I still stand by it. And that's what I thought. I guess it was like naive and like a bit stupid, but like nobody, I'm not like a legal scholar. I was not familiar with like the penal code. But I thought if anyone were to look into my case and if they were to see that I was always

intending to pay people back like it wouldn't be a crime and that's just like not the reality. But that's what I thought like a 23, 24, 25 or that any money even if I were to have like gotten anything from the bank, like I always knew none of it would like go into my bank account. even if I were to get the $30 million loan, like I always knew that nobody would just wire it to me for me to like do whatever I wanted. It would always, it would be basically a loan for contractors to draw on or it would like go towards like the security deposit towards building. Like I would not get like any of the money myself like probably like a very little bit if I wanted to like pay myself or like use it for some expenses. But it's not like, oh, I'm just going to get $30 million and I'm just going to shop and like buy myself whatever clothes and bags. I don't know. I thought that was, I didn't think like anyone would care for somebody like me like doing this. Yeah.

And that was my thinking. And I thought like I would just, everything is going to work out and I would just repay everyone or whatever the bank. Which you've been able to achieve anyone that's lost money. Yeah, yeah, exactly. What's next for you? What's in the future for you? You were telling me about some prison reform you want to possibly dive into as well. Yeah, I'd love to make, I guess, prisons more efficient.

And also, like, why wouldn't you, as a member of society, make sure that people who are getting released from prisons, that they have something to do and that they're being taken care of. Because unless you're getting a death sentence, you're getting out. and you are going to be part of the community. And like the rest of the society should want for like others to be, like you just need to keep people busy and fed. And like if you are like even I was struggling with like getting apartment and whatever, I have great support system.

And I have like, I don't know, like many opportunities that regular people would not have. But it's like when you're out and you're a person, you need to pay for food, you need to pay rent. Many people have been like a burden on their families and their kids for such a long time. They want to go out and like contribute or like be self-sufficient. But like the world just makes it so hard for felons to like do anything or get anything. It's like what do you want people to do? They have to exist.

Like they have to live somewhere. They have to eat. They have to like buy clothes. And they have, yeah, they have to be. like a member of society. So like, why are you so against them, like, reintegrating themselves into society? Like, you know, I wish there was something in the middle between, like, misdemeanor and felony because felon is like such a, like, slur almost like, oh, you're just a felon. But, like, felony is anything between murder and stealing something from a store that's over $1,000.

So it's just such a vast, like, I don't know. When you look back on it, why do you think the things that happened to you happened? What's a good that comes out of it? I don't know. Like, I just don't get an option to, like, go back and change anything. So the only thing I can do is, like, trying to learn from my mistakes and, like, make something better out of my past. And I know, like, people accusing me, like, oh, you're just glorifying.

the crime or the criminal. But now I think like everything that I've achieved so far, it's in spite of my crimes and in spite of my history, not because of it. Like nobody hands you anything for being a criminal. Like that's just not how it works. But people like don't see like jail, right? Like there are no cameras in jail. That's why people think nobody talks like I think most people like they think I've never even been to jail or like I've been there for like a couple of months or something. They don't realize how long I spent just because like nobody highlights that. I also think people that say idolize you or anyone that's in your position, they don't love the crime. What they love is the person and the personality. You look at like Wolfo Wall Street or Teresa Judice or anyone that's been to

prison, they fall in love with you and who you are, the personality, what the headlines don't show, which is you as a person. Yeah, exactly. That's what I don't. I don't. want to encourage anyone to like take, like do anything illegal to achieve their goals. It's just like what I think everyone just has their own struggles in life. And the point is like not to focus on like being a victim or like how unfair something is, but try to like flip it and turn it into something positive and how like you overcome the obstacles without kind of like wallowing and like self-pity because I could be like, well, why did I get four to 12 when I'm like the first time offender? And it's not even my fault. They like created the Netflix series about me.

Like, I don't know. I never asked for any of this. You know, I'm not like a Rachel who was selling books and shows. It literally happened without any input from my end. Like it's, the show has been bought like within a week from New York Magazine and the author, not from me. like I had no saying anything, never, like, had an agent when I was incarcerated, never tried to sell anything. But people don't like, like, looking at that, I guess from that perspective. Like, but what can you do? You can't, you don't get an option to, like, go back and change anything. So you just try to, yeah, kind of, like, take the cards that you've been dealt and, like, yeah, try to make something hopefully better out of it.

Well, Anna, I appreciate you coming on the show today. This was so awesome, and I'm glad we were able to do this. Yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah, of course, my pleasure.