Locked In with Ian Bick - ARMED ROBBERY at 15 Years Old | Jesse Lovic

Episode Date: May 21, 2023

Growing up in a broken home, Jesse Lovic commits an armed robbery at 15 years old and gets charged as an adult. Sent to county jail as a minor, we hear how Jesse navigates the criminal justice system and how he is ultimately able to turn his life around. Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com/Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos & more:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/joinPowered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Real California milk. Jesse Lovic, welcome to Lockton, man. It's great to have you. You just drove, you know, a few hours from Pittsburgh to get out here. We met through email. You hit me up for the first time a complete random stranger and was like, hey, I'd love to come on your show. And this is the first time you're ever telling your story to an audience and you have

an insane story and, you know, we're looking forward to hearing about it. What was your life like growing up? Like, what kind of family do you come from? Lower class. I would say definitely lower class poverty. It's the ghetto. And what do your parents do for work? So my stepdad was a jetny driver.

He owned a concession stand. Well, owned and ran the concession stand that didn't work out. He had a bar as well. There was a lot of problems between him and my mom to where he was out cheating on her and doing things that he shouldn't have been doing. He was so focused on when that's where he wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing. But there was very, a lot of verily. arguments there to where like yelling and screaming and like some sometimes could get you know a little

bit physical not not like real physical but I remember sitting at the top of the steps with my sisters with the phone and my mom telling me you know whenever I tell you to call the cops I want you to call the cops you know so it was kind of like that that happened a lot and that's got to be traumatic for a kid like you and what do you like 10 years old at the time like 9 8 9 years old at the time. How many siblings do you have? There's six of us. And your youngest, oldest, middle? I'm the middle child, yeah. Were you guys close growing up? Yeah, we were. We were. We were pretty close. Could have been closer, but, you know, we just didn't have that like togetherness. It's something that my mom always wanted, and, you know, she always wanted the big dining room table that we all could sit around.

but, you know, we didn't really have sit-down dinners or anything like that because everything was so busy. But, yeah, there was a lot of us. So there's actually, so my two oldest brothers, they got the same dad. Me and my sister, we got the same dad. And then my youngest brother and sister, they got the same dad. And that was my stepdad. And you guys are all living in this one house together? Yeah, we're all living in a house.

Is it like a really small house? I wouldn't say that it was a small house, but it was. wasn't like a big house, but it was like big enough for all of us. I remember, you know, there was a time to wear, uh, there was four of us in, in the one room to wear with two beds. So, so that was kind of like, I guess like kind of different in a sense, you know, I remember sharing a mattress. And do you think that was normal compared to what other kids were doing or were you teased for that? What was like the dynamic with your friends? No, so that didn't even really like come out to where like shared or anything.

like that, but like living situation-wise, I feel like a lot of my friends, they were living the same way. Coming from these broken homes, like I said, I was living with my stepdad. My dad was in and out of jail a lot, and he wasn't really there. And I'm sure that he wanted to be there, you know what I mean? But he had his own problems going on. Let me back up a little bit. So he actually was there for a little bit until we were about maybe eight, nine years old.

And then he kind of just stopped coming to get us. And I guess I don't know if he was in jail or, you know, he was into drugs or whatever he was into. Yeah, he just stopped. Did that motivate you to want to do more with your life? Or did you kind of want to like follow down his footsteps in that sense? At the time, I was so young to where I needed guidance. And I didn't have the guidance. You know, a lot of us in that neighborhood did not have the guidance.

So do you think not having the guidance led you to start hanging out with bad people, bad friends and doing things you maybe shouldn't have been doing? Yeah, 100%. Because whenever you're young like that, there should be some kind of father figure there that's staring you in a direction. And that really wasn't there because, like I said, my stepdad, he would hustle. You know, so he was always on the go, always on a move. You know, he would take catnaps.

He wouldn't really sleep. take four hour naps on the couch and then he'd be back at it, you know? And it's like, there wasn't really like, yeah, it really wasn't that structure there, you know? And it led me on a path to destruction for real for myself without the guidance, you know, because like, okay, so growing up in this environment, right, you see all these other people, all your other friends, like kids are smoking weed at 10 years old. I remember walking home from school. school, this was elementary school, and the one kid said, say I won't punch him in the face. Say you won't. Just like, you know what I mean, he won't. And he went up there and just like dropped

them. And you were just following along with us too. Yeah, like just like, okay, that was cool, you know, and not cool, but like laughing about it, you know. But maybe feeling bad in a sense, in the same way, I just didn't know how to, I didn't know myself at that time. You know what I mean? It's like I was a people person. You were trying to find like your identity, I guess. Yeah, but I was so young that. I was like nine years old, you know, and like stuff like that. So where like.

That's a lot of pressure to put on a nine year old. Yeah. To try to figure himself out with no like father figure or anything. Yeah, especially with your environment when it's so run down like that like garbage everywhere. Just like I remember the older kids in the neighborhood, they used to call the cops on themselves so that they could run from the police. Like it was cool to run from the police. I remember, you know, a couple houses up.

The one kid would, the police actually were looking for him and he's hiding on his porch roof laying down, you know. So it's like you see those things. I remember, you know, seeing, looking out my living room window and seeing an armed robbery across the street from me happening. A guy had a bag, I guess, he owed the guy some money, he owed him some money and robbed him right there. nine years old at that point too you know and like just seeing those things and then like uh so

whenever i talk should i say like just keep going man be in you man okay i just want to make sure i'm using the right like terms like these people or this or just just be you man okay so like there was even a time to where like my mom really went and put up with like the drug dealers in a sense yeah and there's he would just walk up and down the street counting his money all day but you see these things when you're a kid you know. Like, I knew about people selling drugs, and I was aware of people selling crack, and I was aware of, you know, robberies and, like, just all of that. And I feel like that's really bad for someone so young, but that's how it is for, you know,

a lot of people in those types of communities. But, yeah, he would just count his money up and down, up and down. My mom used to stand on the corner because she grew up with him, you know. Yeah. You're like, drug deal, drug deal, yelling down the street. You know, like not snitching, but just basically saying, like, get that, like, I got kids here. Like, you know what I mean? Like, stuff like that.

So, like, she wasn't really, like, snitching on them or anything like that. She was just, like, I guess, just, like, verbal. She's very verbal. Like, she wasn't scared to, like, speak your mind or say anything. Yeah. Which is, I guess, a good trait to have in a sense. Yeah. Especially when you've got so many kids, you know what I mean?

Yeah. But there was that. And then there was this. one time to where I was walking on my street and there was this kid, older kid, and he was teaching me how to break in the cars. And I was 10 years old at this point. This is the first time you ever commit a crime? So I didn't commit a crime, but this is the first altercation I had with police based on the guy that I was with. So where we're walking up the street and he's looking in the cars and he's trying

of pop handles. He had a Mercedes on him, long knife, you know. Get up to the basketball court. There's probably like 10 to 15 people in there. Next thing you know, there's seven cop cars come pulling up, zipping all around, laid everybody down on the basketball court. I'm 10 years old. And that was my first running with the police, not running like personally, but my first experience. Like, I was laying on the ground in a basketball court, and they walked over to the guy and picked a machete. out of his, you know, out of his pants. And it's like, that's not good for a young child to, like, be around. Yeah, this is developing in your mind at that young age.

A lot of fights happening at the park as well. I remember watching this one kid said that Kobe Bryant was his family member or something like that. And he got bullied for saying that. They stomped on his head. Like, they were, like, literally, like, stomping on his head, which is really crazy, too. Just the violence, you know. Yeah.

Now, I know you end up committing a crime when you're 15 that we'll get into, but was there anything before that, like after this 10-year-old self, you're exposed to crime and whatnot? Do you start seeing yourself committing small crimes like shoplifting or anything like that? Yeah, yeah. So I actually got caught shoplifting at Schwartz's Market on Warrington Avenue, like the main strip in the neighborhood. Is that the first thing you've ever done illegally? Yeah, that was the first thing.

And why did you do that? Like, you're just like, let me try this, or was it about the... money or I had two friends with me that walked into the store with me and you know and they took something so I decided I was going to take something too and I guess I just followed I followed. Did you know it was wrong? No, see I think that I was aware that it was wrong but I don't feel like I was aware of my awareness like of who I was. You know what I mean? It's like I was aware of my decisions but I wasn't aware of myself. And you were just trying to fit in with the crowd.

Yeah, and in a sense trying to fit in, but at the same time, it's like that was, that's what was, like, projected on us. If you think about, like, the environment that I was, that I was in and the people that I was surrounded around, and I feel like the music played a really big part in that as well. You know, get Richard D. Tryon, 50 Cent, you know. I remember having that CD and, like, there wasn't really, like, don't listen to this or don't listen to that.

It was just like I could do whatever I want. And it kind of like led me to just like, that's what I was attracted to. Yeah. You know? So by the time you're 15 years old, you end up, you know, committing an armed assault robbery type setting. What happens that day? And what exactly do you do? So previously, though, I was breaking into a lot of cars at like 14.

14, I was breaking into tons of cars. drinking smoking weed at 12 years old and all that stuff too so it was like real bad there but so want me tell you how it went down yeah all right so how I went down is uh so I had I had a gun I had a 9 millimeter um why does a 15 year old need a gun and how do you get that gun so what happened was is I ended up getting robbed at a bus stop and I got jumped by three older people Like they were a lot older than I was. Excuse me. There was a lot.

So I got, I was sitting at a bus stop, waiting to go home. It's like 12 o'clock at night. It was 15 years old. Last bus running. All by myself. They came up to me. Asked me if they could use my phone. So I went to go give him my phone and got, he punched me in the face.

So I got up real quick. And the next thing you know, I'm surrounded. it so I was a lot younger than I'm at the time too you know and uh so that really got my mind going it's like okay I got robbed so like like made it okay for like so you thought you needed a gun for protection yeah yeah definitely thought that I needed a gun for protection at a time see I don't want to say that though because I really didn't get into like wanting a gun for protection until really like later on that that was just like that really like sparked something in me whenever that happened.

Because what happened is, is I actually, I stole my brother's gun. That day that you commit a robbery? No, probably like a week before that. Okay. About a week before we committed, or I committed that robbery, a week before I committed that robbery, I stole my brother's gun. He drove me to school and I felt underneath the seat and I felt a gun underneath the seat.

And so I knew it was there. and at the time like I mean from 13 14 and 15 all of that stuff was like cool in a sense it was like you start small and then like just builds up but like that's what everybody else is doing you know it's like you don't divide yourself from that unless you're a leader like a strong one and you have values and like all that stuff and like that stuff that wasn't really taught to us in a sense you know and so I took Germany school one morning probably like maybe maybe a week or two after you know I felt the gun underneath the seat I took the gun and I caught the PAP bus to school because there wasn't school buses we caught city buses so I had to catch two buses to get to get

the high school and instead of going to school so I got to a 9 millimeter on my hip 15. Instead of going to school, I went to my friend's house, showed him, we ain't go to school that day. And you thought it was cool, just like have this gun. So, oh, let me see that. Yeah, it was like, it was like that's cool. It's like, it's a pistol.

You know, you're 15. And did you want to, like, hurt anyone? Or you're just, you're just thinking it's cool because you're 15 years old? See, that's kind of like, it's tough to say, right? Because it's like, the attention wasn't like, oh, I'm going to go out there and really like caused harm on people, it was kind of just like subconsciously just going with like everything that I have, has taken in from, you know, all of my experiences previously from that because I had a lot of experiences previously from that. And like with the music and everything like that, it's just like

that, I guess that was like the cool thing. And if you look around the neighborhood, a lot of people are getting killed and a lot of people were getting shot, you know, and like there's a lot of things happening. So like there's probably multiple things going through your mind at the time. Did you ever shoot a gun by that point in time? No, I didn't shoot a gun at that time. So you just had it and you thought it was cool. You guys were listening to rap songs. You heard about it on TV, whatever. Yeah. So what do you guys end up deciding to do? You skip school. You have this gun. Where does it end up? So for about a week, about a week straight, we was running around just robbing people. Just robbing wherever. Just robbing people wherever. What are you robbing and what are you taking? So, you know, we went into these apartment complexes, just random

people there. We went to nothing. We wasn't even really like, it wasn't like we were robbing like, you know, somebody that sold drugs or somebody that did this. We were just like running around with the gun. And you're 15 years old. That's what I mean. A child with a gun at 15, they should not have guns at 15 years old. Do you ever think that you're like terrorizing some of these individuals? Because imagine like what they could be thinking. Like if they're getting robbed with a gun, like that's life threatening right there. Do you ever think about that? Or in that moment, did you think, hey, I'm hurting people, not even physically, but like emotionally. So not at the time because it was like subconscious, but that just gave me the chills since you said that because like reflecting on

that, there's pain that comes up now. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's like you don't realize that. And that's where like the guidance comes into play. And that's where like I held that resentment against my father and stuff like that because it's like where, where was that? Why was I so free at a young age, you know, in this environment? Now, are you guys making money from these robberies? No. So you're just getting whatever, like a few bucks. It's not really worth it.

If anything. It was more like just like just to do it. So what's the robbery that happens that you end up getting arrested for? So it was playoffs. It was Buffalo Bills and the Patriots in 2008. And how old are you? 15. 15, 2008.

And it was me and my two, me and my two friends were at my house. and we had a plan that we were going to, you know, go hit a lick, what we would call it, go hit a lick, and grab a case of 40s for a playoff game, you know, and we're at my house, and my mom looked at me, she said, why don't you guys just watch the game here, you know? No, no, no, no, no, no. Because south side, like, we're in the city, so it's like south side's the main strip or whatever, like there's a lot going on around the neighborhood, you know? So she wanted us to stay at home because she had a bad feeling, she said.

She said, I got a really bad feeling, Jess. I said, you ain't got nothing to worry about. Like, we're fine, you know? And then she said, well, she looked at my one friend. And she said, so whenever I don't mention names, right? I don't want to overthink it. Whenever I don't want to mention names, should I say, like, my friend? I don't want to keep saying my friend, my friend, my friend.

Whatever you want to say. Okay, cool, cool. Just check it. So she looked at my friend and she said, I want you to give me your phone number. I want you to give me your telephone number and your address for whenever the cops call me, I'm going to call your mom. So she knew something.

She knew. She had the feeling. She had the gut feeling. And that's giving me the chills right now. So do you think if you had that father figure to say, hey, don't go out today or don't do this, your life would have been so much different? Absolutely. I would have some discipline in my life?

If she had told you don't do this, would you have listened or not? No, not at all. So you guys go against what she's thinking, and where do you guys end up? Where do you go? So we left my house. So we left my house. We're walking down towards Southside. And how it is, it's like there's Arlington.

It goes up and over. It's like the slope. So like we're in Arlington. We walk up and over. Some lady decides to ask us if we need a ride down the hill. And, you know, I'm sitting there. I got a 9mm on my hip, you know, that was the one carrying it. I'm 15.

You know, I got my boy next to me. I got my boy in the front seat. This was an older lady. You know, like, anything could have happened there. Especially because, like, not to go off, but, like, my boy next to me, he was, like, real getter, like, real involved. You know, like, he was, like, real deep into, like, just his family. His upbringing was real bad. You know what I mean?

like he's already punched a cop in the face and he's the same age as me so like he's been a placement whatever so she takes us down drops us off and uh we go to walk down the city steps to go down to the flats we call it so-south flats and we're sitting there for a minute and uh some guy comes walking up so our objective was to go rob somebody to come up with enough money to buy a case of 40s for the game. Which is what, like 20 or 30 bucks? Yeah, like $25. So you guys are risking your freedom.

You know you're committing a crime just for this little amount of money. Yeah. Couldn't you just ask someone for the money? Probably. So you weren't thinking you just thought it was cool to get this adrenaline rush for like the crime. Yeah. I think that that has something to do with it.

And I'll get a little bit deeper into that later on in the interview. But I think that that has something to do with this. The adrenaline rush that comes with it. And it's the like, this is my click. this is who we are because there's multiple clicks and I jumped around between like not really jumped around but I was cool with everybody yeah like I was a people person you know what I mean but it's like so what happens now that did you guys rob this guy what exactly goes down so what happened was is the guy comes walking up I got the I got the 9mm on my hip my friend looks at me says loeb they call me

Look, loke, give me the gun. Or he said, let me back up. He said, let's go, let's get him. I was like, chill, bro. Like, we don't even know what he has. You know, it doesn't look like he has anything. He has tight pants on. You know, he doesn't really, like, no book bag, nothing.

He said, loke, quit being a bitch. Give me the gun. What I do? I gave him the gun. You know, so whenever I gave him the gun, he walked up. and he said something to him, the guy turned around, and he pointed the 9mm millimeter at his face. And whenever he pointed it at his face, the guy said, that's a fake gun.

We're kids. You know, he said, that's a fake gun. So my boy popped the clip out, showed him the clip, put it back in, cocked it back, and then aimed it at his head. And the guy was still like, he was scared, but like he wasn't like, oh, you know what I mean? Like he was older. He's probably like 25. you know so he started giving him a little bit of trouble like just the feedback just the conversation

so me and my boy they they were having an altercation up there we're probably like 15 feet away now i'm going to say like we're probably like 25 feet away so we go to walk up to like give him some assistance and then we start beating him up like we just start jumping the guy yeah we started beating the guy up he's trying to get away and you know my other boy's pulling back And I wasn't going as hard, but like I was present. Like I was still there. You know what I mean? You're thinking at all, like this isn't what I signed up for or anything like that?

No. You were just, you're going with it. You were following the lead of your boy. Yeah. So you start beating this guy up what happens next. So he gets away. He hops over the fence. He starts pounding on this door.

So as he's pounding on the door, my two boys walking away. I'm like, what are you guys doing? you guys are walking, we gotta run, we gotta go, the cops are about to be here, you know what I mean? I know for a fact, he's about the, the cops are about to be looking for us. So then we start running. Next thing you know,

all we hear is sirens. So we hit a little cut. So we hit a cut. We're in between these two houses. We decided to split up. There's cop cars everywhere. So now it's kind of like catmouse. You know, so like we're on the south side slopes. like our freedom's on the line

but at the same time it's like a game you know what I mean it's like okay we got to get away like we get boom so we split up my one boy goes down smart right go down the hill me and my other boy we go up the hill next thing you know we're walking down the street cop car rides past us

keeps going we're like oh shit you know nerves going we're thinking like next thing you know another cop comes down hey stop right there there are steps right next to us and we just darted we just booked it down the steps boom because you know got the gun on us ran down the steps we had a cut now we're running up a hill so we're running up these backyards and i remember running and i'm running out of breath i'm running running running and uh i ran out of breath I stopped, so I try to hide underneath this fence. My boy looked at me and he was like, come on, what are you doing?

Come on. I'm like, I'm good, bro. You know, I'm hiding. 15, you know what I mean? There's cops. They're old. They're not dumb. You know what I mean?

It's like, I think I'm hiding underneath of a fence, you know? Next thing you know, I got seven guns drawn on me. What's going through your mind when the guns are drawn on you? I don't got a gun on me. Did you ditch the gun, or your friend did? He had it on him. He kept going. But what was going through my mind is like, oh, shit, they're about that, they might shoot me, you know, like, so first thing I'm saying, I don't got a gun on me. Boom, so I got arrested. Did they arrest your other friends or did they didn't catch them?

They didn't catch them until a little bit later on. So whenever they caught me, you thought this was your run club era. Turns out, it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news, someone Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on D-pop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on D-pop wants what you've got. Start selling now.

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Plus government fees and taxes. 7,500 miles per year, expire 6126. 2,000. 2,000. PH 71529, pH 71529. I'm sitting there in handcuffs. There's about six cop cars. The victim,

road passing the cop car, and said, yet I was one of them. And it took me to a police station. I'm shackled now at this point, shackled to a bench, just sitting there. I'd say about an hour and a half later, my other boy comes walking down with his head down. He got caught. He got caught. And I looked up at him and I was like, damn, they got you too, bro.

Like that's the first thing I said was like, they got you too, you know? And he's like, yep. And you guys are like in the county jail? So at this point, we're just in like the police station. the South Side. Okay. So we're sitting down there for a little while and what's crazy is like how my mom said like I'm going to call your mom kind of thing to my one friend. Well, that's the friend that got away. So what's crazy is like my mom called just what she said she was going to do his mom and said, hey, just want to let you know that they caught yada yada yada. My mom probably thought

that they caught all of us. You know, she didn't know. So next thing you know, I'm sitting down there at the police station, the phone rings, and it's my other boy's mom that got away there. And she's like, that motherfucker, what did he do? Daddy, yada, yada, yada. He's, excuse my language. She's yelling or she's yelling this and that. He didn't even get caught. So she's throwing his name in it.

And that's how they catch him? And, well, they didn't get him. Okay. And what's like your first conversation with your mom like? So the first conversation with my mom. After you get arrested. After I got arrested. that that was the, that was, that point was a blur.

That point was a blur because what happened was, is like I didn't get a chance to talk to her. So me and my boy, it's probably like eight o'clock at night. We did this probably around like, I'd say like three o'clock or so. They take us to, uh, to another police station to do some kind of processing with us. I remember sitting on the elevator and I looked at the cops to haze And I was like, that's a cool taser. Like, you know, I'm 15, man.

I'm not even realizing what I'm about to go through, you know. Is there an option for bail at all? And so there was an option for bail. But the cop actually, so take us, okay, I'll make this part quick. They took us to the police station and then they took us to Schumann Center. And that's like the juvenile detention center. Yeah. So we get there.

And once we go to go into like, get placed there that whoever was sitting at intake looked at her paperwork and said we can't accept them they're being child as an adult and my boy looked at me and he said yo look you're ready for this

because we're going to the county you know what I mean it's like you're not going to shoo man you're not going to the juvenile detention center and that that was crazy like that right there that was the whole transition what were your charges exactly so armed robbery conspiracy to armed robbery and inflict bodily harm.

And these are all felonies? Yeah, yeah. Of course, the armed robbery and the conspiracy to armed robbery. But it's crazy how that went too, right? Because like, okay, so since they were all, they were felonies and all that, they didn't get a gun. They didn't find a gun. So like since they didn't find a gun, we were so young.

to where like it was just it was a shit show for them in a sense because like we shouldn't have really been placed because there's like no like evidence there you know what I mean and it's like it was just it it was weird how like that really worked out in a sense and I really think that like the cop uh I don't know if I could say his name or not you could delete it but officer squares uh he actually like I remember him saying like I see a lot of myself and you when I was a kid like he was a troubled, trouble kid. Yeah. You know, so, like, I don't know, like, if he had anything to do with, like, how

things worked out or whatever, but he ended up getting arrested for being a dirty cop later on down the road. Wow. But that was crazy. Did you end up getting bail? So, after four months, I spent my 16th birthday locked up. In the county, yeah. So what's, like, the county like for a 15-year-old kid?

You're put in with, they didn't separate you. No. They put you with full-grown adults? How are people treating you? So whenever we first went in there, we went up to, you know, PC at first, up on a protective custody at first. They took our shoelaces from us, took everything from us. And, you know, it was me and my friend in the same cell. We were locked in there.

And then they let us out. Once they let us out, we were like, you know, we were on that pod. I think it was 6F, 7F. We were on that pod for like maybe like four days. But that's the pod with like the killers and this and the. that nobody really like up on that pod nobody really paid us that much attention because we were so young they just had no business really messing with us you know what I mean at that but at that point as I could remember because like it wasn't really like it just felt like I'm a very adaptable person

so like I'm not sitting there scared I'm not nervous I'm not like you know what I mean like I'm not thinking of the worst or anything like that I'm just going with the flow what's the sleeping situation like are you guys in cells are you in a dorm selves sales and you're locked in all day yeah so so we're in cells are you guys sell up together are you guys sell up together and we're locked in the whole day oh wow we're locked in the whole day for like i think it was like five days and that was weird because you know you're sitting there with one of your best friends shit and piss next to each other you know sharing the cell like that it's kind of just like did it feel real like that you're actually in jail uh it didn't it did but it didn't because i remember my first dream that i had uh

while in jail was that I was free. And then I woke up and I was in jail. Do you think your mindset changed all? Like you grew up in that moment that this was like the scared straight program. Like this hit you? Like you don't want to go on to any more bullshit after this? Yeah, it's funny you say that because I remember my stepdad when I was younger. He said, you're so fucking hardheaded.

You're going to end up in jail just like your dad. You should be on that scared straight program. But it wasn't the scared straight program. It was the real deal. So like, you know what I mean? But like I didn't feel. feel like, back to your question, though, I didn't really feel that it was like, not that it was real or that it wasn't real. It was just kind of like, I was just like going with the flow.

Yeah, when you finally get out of like the shoe or solitary, are you, when you're in general population, do you see like a lot of violence in the county jail? So yeah, once we got out of there, they took us down to, to, to, toee. Once we walked into two E, I remember walking in, this was this was one of the parts that probably like emotionally stuck with me just because of the feeling that I had whenever it happened because you know how emotions can like stay

in you at times unless you like really get them out like you won't even notice them sometimes yeah um we're going to walk in and everybody's pounding on their door put them in myself see yo fresh meat put them in myself I'm looking at Ev like yo bro what are we about to be getting into

you know what I mean like because now we're getting settled in settled in like before we were just like protective custody okay now we're out for a couple days and now we're getting settled into our new home and once we got in there I mean like everybody said that and did all that right but like there was like a there was like a mutual respect thing because we were so young did they know what your charges were uh no but I'm sure that there was no there wasn't really even much talk about it there was a little bit of talk like I I connected with a couple people. I actually began to become, like, very active on the pot, like playing spades.

I was running around, just connecting with everybody. You know, I was listening to people's stories. But these are, like, grown men. I think it's crazy that they put a 15-year-old kid in general population with guys that are, like, 40 years old, then you're just out there to fend for yourself. Yeah. So do you have to develop like a prison hustle? Because you didn't really come for money or anything.

So how are you making money inside this county jail? So what happened was is my mom was actually like putting money on my books. Like she wasn't completely like poor, but we were poor. You know what I mean? It's like she had a job. She went through school for and everything like that. But like we were we were poor because that's after the divorce. Whenever they had a divorce, I lived in Ohio for like two years.

my mom got a settlement for breaking her ankle. We moved to Ohio, thought that we were out of the ghetto, thought that it was going to be like a new start, you know. And, of course, I linked up with the bad kids. But we up and left one day. So, like, my stepdad was, like, real, like, heavy on, like, you know, just, not bashing me, but, like, he was just, like, always, there was always something that he had to say. So, like, I remember my mom saying, like, just give me the word. If you want to leave, and we'll leave. We'll pack your bags.

That was 12 years old. So, like, at that point, like, and I've already developed a lot of friends. I was very popular because, you know, the city kid moves to, like, a decent, like, place in a sense. You know what I mean? It's like, everybody was cool. But we just up and left. So, like, we were just, like, gone, you know? Yeah.

And that was kind of crazy, too, because, like, that was around Christmas. So, like, that really had an effect on everything else, too, because that's whenever I lost that stepdad father figure and then, you know, got thrown back into the mix. And whenever I came home from Ohio, everybody welcomed me with open hugs. So now everybody's a little bit older than they were before I left when they were smoking weed at 10. And it was just like it was just on from there.

But back to your question, my bad. I didn't mean to do that. It just kind of connected in with what you were saying. What was you saying? Oh, about what if you had to have a prison hustle or not. So, yeah, I didn't have to have a prison hustle. there was a couple inmates that looked out for me like the one inmate a tall white guy like real cool laid back he gave me an extra cot so that I could double up because you know the real thin

mattresses that they give you yeah so I had two mattresses I had a top bunk um one guy gave me a radio he looked out so it's like really crazy too right because like you would think that like you know but like how it shapes you though like that that's where like how it shapes you after you're You know what I mean? It's still like it's still like very bad for like such a young child to go through. How are the officers treating you as this 15 year old kid in the county jail? So the officers, the officers were like, I didn't really have like too many conversations with the officers wise. Like they were kind of just like laid back. They just minded their business. I remember the one officer, my one cellie, he was an Italian guy. He was probably like 50, 55.

years old and that's crazy too right the age difference between a 15 year old and and a 50 like you should bro the door is locked once the door is locked at night you know what I mean like anything can happen like but uh he he used to be a what he would be uh he was a worker so since he was a worker on the pod the door used to be allowed to be open so I remember they actually let me out the one time to sit and watch tv out there and I remember people looking outside of themselves like like really but like they weren't like mad you know what I'm saying but like the COs were kind of like laid back in a sense, but like, it was still rough. I'm pulling like the good out of it.

I remember seeing the one cell was filled with blood from the one fight, which was real crazy. There was a couple of fights on the pods over food as well. But like I wasn't in the mix of that, but I seen that. And I remember the rumor going around the one guy hung himself from the top bar, you know, and like... It's all crazy shit. All crazy stuff, man. What about like the food? What's the food like in a county jail?

Oh, the food, man. Man, that that was different. I know like in the federal system, everyone says county jail is the worst. So how bad was it? Oh, the county jail food was bad. What are they serving? The county, they called it the big sausages.

They called them donkey, whatever, donkey dicks or something like that. But like nasty, just like, it looked like sludge almost. It just looked like they just scoop, boom, you know, and it's like potatoes. I don't even remember. I just remember it being like nasty. nasty. Yeah. You know. So you're able to get out after the four months on bail or whatever. How does your case get resolved? How does this situation come to a close? So this was my first offense. So how this unraveled was is my boy that was with me. He's already been in trouble a few times. I think that they took into account.

Now, I could be wrong. They took into account that, you know, we were so young. My mom, she probably could have done something because like we should have been on our own pod right like there should there should have been a juvenile pod down there and I don't know if there was like something behind that or something like that but I remember I ended up getting house arrest restitution my mom ended up getting me an attorney so like that probably helped out you know because of the age and I was on probation for like I think like four years or something like that so you didn't get any more jail time I didn't get any more jail time but I do remember that they needed me to come to Schumann to do something, and then they took me in, and they maybe stayed her for like three days or something like that.

Now, was this the last time you ever get in trouble? No, not at all. That was the beginning. So this was like your wake-up call. Well, like this was supposed to be your wake-up call. You had this one offense. It didn't turn out too bad. Like you only got a few months and then house rest and probation.

You get out. You're on probation. How does it get worse? How does that just become the start of your, of the, of the, crime, I guess. So it kind of like, okay, so whenever I was released from the county jail, there was nobody to pick me up all front because nobody knew that I was getting released. The first thing I did was walk across the bridge, the city bridge, is a free child, went to my friend's house, and his aunt went and got us a case of beer, and we were smoking

weed. So it's like right back into like, you know what I mean? And it's all stems from the people you're hanging out with. Yeah, yep, yep, and that's exactly what it is, you know, and then, you know, it was right back to breaking in the car. and it was it was just back into like the flow of things and then you get older. You're not thinking at all like, hey, I just did this. I got a felony on my record. If I get caught again, I'm screwed. I think the thing with that is, is that like I wasn't punished enough for it.

You know what I'm saying? Like since I got off so easy and I just kind of just like, I didn't really feel like it was like, I don't know. See, that shouldn't have been going through my head at that young neither. You know what I'm saying? Like, that should have, like, really straightened me out in a sense. But I do remember getting out of there and the high school telling me that they can't accept me because I was child as an adult.

And that was really weird, too. Did you ever get to finish high school? No, I ended up dropping, because I ended up going through homeschool after that because they wouldn't accept me in. Then my mom fought that. And then they ended up letting me back in because, the cases, everything got like dropped down, however that went. And let me back in.

I didn't have enough credits to transfer over because instead of doing homeschool, I was running around smoking weed, selling weed, doing all that. And didn't have enough credits. And they told me that I was going to have to repeat that grade. And with repeating that grade, I was like, I'm better off just dropping out. So my mom actually signed me out of high school. So I think I was like 16 at that point. And that was different too because whenever that happened,

I even remember what high school, I was running around selling weed around the hallways. Like that was my thing. I was always selling something. I was always hustling something. A little entrepreneur. Yeah, that was my thing. It was like I always have my hands on something,

doing something to make some money. And I remember getting patted down by, you know, getting called out of a home room and patted down by the principal and the security guard. And they're searching me. and he's saying, why's your heart beating like you got a gun on you? And I literally got an ounce of weed separately bagged up underneath my underwear tucked under. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, my heart's beating because I'm in the office with you and you, you know what I mean?

And it's like, but I had something on me and I always had something on me. And but yeah, after after school. Do you get caught anymore? Like do you do any more jail time or what happens like in the coming years? So there's so much in between there, right? Because, like, I bought two shotguns off of my boy that got, ended up getting killed previously to that. And my one boy were at his house and this guy shows up with a bag of guns, like 16. You know, so, like, I've already had a 9mm multiple weapons.

I had a 380, 357. my one boy's 357 that he sold the my other boy he shot somebody in the head with it and uh he ended up doing life um but leading up to like all that my second like running i was doing my thing and uh selling out in and out in and out in and out had some weapons in the house and how old are you at this point at this point this is i was 18 so there's a big gap there why I was trying to like fill in the gap a little bit because there was so much that came through all that, you know, like just like selling drugs. I remember, I remember shooting guns in the Grandview Park at 16.

I remember being served 40s at the beer distributor at 16. Yeah. I remember rolling up weed in the back of Pizano's. So that first time you got caught really just spiraled everything. Spirled everything. I started crushing windows instead of just checking car door handles. We were breaking because the people I was with were older. So they were showing us how to pop the car windows with the screwdriver.

I stole my first car at 16 and I tried to keep it. That's crazy how it all escalated when it should have been like a wake-up call. If you just had someone to say, hey, you know, you need to get your fucking life on track. Yeah. So what happens then? Do you go back to jail? So my host got ran up in. I heard a knock.

Heard a knock on the door. Nobody, you know, was supposed to be coming through. So, so who is it? No answer. So my mind started thinking, and it was actually Thanksgiving, the night before Thanksgiving, we were drinking Hennessy. So we're all messed up, like, I'm bottling, counting my money from all the money that I made that day, checking my pockets, getting everything together. It's like 12 o'clock. I'm always the last one to go to sleep, you know what I mean, take catnaps. But I didn't have my gun on me. And so the knock on the door, and I wasn't thinking, and then I was like, oh yeah, maybe that's what's, that was supposed to come through, right? So I go to open the door next thing you know I got a gun to my hip

They're trying to get in so like now I'm thinking like now I'm like okay It's about to go down like there ain't no backing out at this point you know what I'm saying It's like something's about to happen so it's like okay I could either stay here I don't got a gun on me right now I could either stay here with the with the risk of you know Not only them taking everything but just like you know you don't know what's going to happen in a situation right So it's like, so instinct-wise, I try to run. Pushing the door back, they're pushing in two older dudes. It's always older people.

I was always like, you know, like around older people, like, or there's always older people. But boom, try to push in the door, push back, push back. They make their way in. So first thing I clicked in my mind was like, okay, I'm going to go out the front. But if I go out the front, there might be somebody waiting for me out of the front with a gun. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what's about to happen. So I dip out the front.

So now I'm out of the house. So I'm like, all right, cool. So now that I'm out the house, I'm like, all right, they know that I got guns. So they might think that, you know, I might pop around the corner or something like that. So they ended up going in there. I hear two shots in the back alley. I run back to the house. And the next thing you know, about like 12 to 13 police cars on my street lined up front and back, going through everything.

So I got robbed and then the cops came. And they arrest. How does that worry? Yeah, and they arrested me. What did you get arrested on? We're sitting there intent to deliver. They found O's sheets. They found bullets.

They didn't find no guns. It's all felonies. Yeah, whenever I went back to the house, I gave everything that I could find to my boys told them to leave. It just dipped out, you know? And what are you facing at this point, like, when they arrest you? See, and that's weird, too. And this is why, like, by the grace of God,

like, there was always something looking over me because, like, there was times that where, like, I've gotten out of some crazy situations, like a police raid with weed on me. And then I leave the police raid and I go sell weed down the street. You know what I mean? Like how does that happen? So like in this situation, for instance, like, boom, we're sitting on the couch through like, where's the guns?

Where's the guns? I got this roommate next to me. He's crying, you know, tell him where the guns are. I'm like, what are you talking about, you know? So, so bang, get arrested and Thanksgiving. Did they let you out on bond when you know. Yeah. I got bailed out.

So you got bailed out? How does this like case get resolved? It's crazy because they took 10 grand off me. They took 10 grand off me. I'm not sure if that was marked down or not, though. That's weird. And a couple other things. And it got marked down to a disorderly conduct.

It got the whole case got marked down to a disorderly conduct. Yeah, because they didn't have guns. They didn't get no guns. They had an O sheet. I had an attorney too. So I still had some money. So you never did jail time for this? So no.

but I was down there, so I didn't do jail time for that. Yeah. And was this the last time you ever commit, like a crime? That's whenever I was like, okay, I need to change. That's when it hit me. That was the wake-up call. That was the wake-up call because I was tired of it. And I guess because it could have been worse?

Yeah. You're thinking, wow, I really got a second chance. Like, it could have been a lot worse this situation. It could have been a lot worse. Not only that. Like, it was on my mind, okay, I either change what I'm doing or I go find the people that did this with a gun. And how old are you?

you when this that's when that's when that's when i was 18 at that point you're 18 you have this realization you never look back since like it's been on the straight and arrow no i went and say that but that is that that that's when i had like i've just been through so much shit to where i was like i'm i've had enough of it and like ever since i was younger like i knew that i always wanted a family right and i knew that you know i always wanted to make a lot of money and i now that i'm 18 whenever i was younger, whenever think about making a lot of money, you think that doing this stuff is going to make you a lot of money, it's not. You know, it's really not. You got to do something bigger than that. Like, you got to do something different than that. What do you do next? Do you go finish school?

I have a kid. You have a kid? And did that keep you on like the stray and error, I guess? Did that ground you? Give you something to like have hope for, I guess? Yeah. And that re-evaluated your life? I still bought a 40 after that, though. I still had a gun after that. You still had a gun, but you never went back to like that crime life yeah what were you protection that's all it was what were you doing for work uh i was working at uh pramani brothers on a cell side okay what's making cool slow it's like a pittsburgh uh sandwich place like they're famous for their permany sandwiches it's like french drives cool slow all that i guess whatever but yeah i was working down there staying out of trouble. Staying out of trouble. Were you more cautious of who you were hanging out with at this point?

That's a good question. Yeah, I was. I was. I started distancing myself. I started to get more in tune with myself and less in tune with the environment. And I think that that really helped me, because whenever I had a kid on the way and things weren't really working out between me and my firstborn's mom and things kind of went like a little sideways. But then I made. met my wife now we've been to gather for 10 years since I was 20 and that was the that was the blessing you needed the blessing like but her she came ground you like keep you on track and and keep you on the straight and arrow yeah she did so you haven't committed like any crime since that last one no that that I think that was like the end for me how's your relationship now with like your family your mother

your siblings it's it's good you know because you know one Once I got out of that lifestyle, I realized that I was able to change my reality. You know, so I got out of that lifestyle and I got into sales and I started selling legal things, right? What you were good at. You took your strength, what you were good at and you put it into something good. Yeah. I mean, that's so important. I mean, I look at me, like, my passion was always like nightclub entertainment and stuff,

and that led me into some trouble. So now I just put that passion, drive and energy into what I do now. like I think that we all have like positive good traits about us and if you could take that and drive it into something then you find your purpose and that essentially brings you on 100% that's great that you were able to find that are you cautious now like thinking back to the past of what your relationship was like was or lack of with your father do you make sure that with your child now it's not that same dynamic so what I've learned over the time is like I've really learned to understand people right I used to hold it against them you know

like I used to like blame everything, everybody else and everything around me. And then I started like taking full responsibility and taking accountability, you know, and I started to learn to like, but yet I am more like trying to do things for my kids that weren't, weren't there for me necessarily to where like I'm trying to, I want to be there to support them and to guide them. For instance, right, my 13 year old, like I want him to have an aim. I think that it's important for you to have an aim in life, right? something that you're working towards because that's what I didn't have neither I didn't have a name I didn't

have goals I didn't even know about goals they didn't teach us values they didn't teach us financial literature anything they didn't really like there they just teach you to like be a worker so like I guess from all my experiences I'm able to like use that entrepreneurial spirit that I have and it rubs off on my kids like for instance you know my nine-year-old Jordan he was talking about you know he wants to be a vet so you know I tell him you know instead of being a a vet wants you do something that can make an impact, you know, on a much bigger scale. So, like, I just, like, leveling up that mindset and then, like, the encouragement, I think encouragement is huge.

I think a lot of us lack encouragement. And I think that that's encouragement builds confidence. And confidence, you know, with an aim, then you could achieve anything that you, that, that you think that you could wish. Yeah. Have you gotten the chance to have that conversation with your kids, like, about your mistakes and said, like, these are the mistakes I made as your father. and like I don't want you to follow down that path?

I have, but like briefly. Like I don't want to get like too deep into it with them because like with doing that, you spark something inside of them, right? So for instance, my 13 year old, he wants to play Grand Theft daughter, he wants to do this and he wants to do that. I understand you're a kid, you know what I mean?

And like, I play Grand Theft daughter growing up, but like look at the impact that that had on me, you know what I mean? And like just all that stuff. So like I'm more strict, but I'm more like, it's not even that I'm sure. strict. I'm just trying to, I'm trying to move up, not down. So, you know what I'm saying? Like, with rap music, for instance, right? Like, what it projects on these kids nowadays is, like, violence and, like, shooting and, like, killing. Like, I listen to Young Jezy, and I started selling

drugs, you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, and then a little boozy, you start robbing people. It's like, yeah. I feel like music has, or sound has a big part to play, and, and a lot of things, too. It's, like, it conditions your mind because your mind's very powerful. Now, like, God forbid your kids make the same mistakes that you did when you were their age, how would you navigate that situation, knowing what you know now? If one of my kids was the, I'd have, I've had, I would have an understanding in a sense, but I would, I would take the responsibility of like, what did I do, you know, to where, like, cause this? Like, where was I not at in their life or life? So do you think, like, you're more aware now, unlike when you didn't have that

father figure you're more aware of their actions to make sure that they don't travel down that yeah for sure for sure and i feel like to be conscious of all that is it's very important too and i mean everything you've been through has made you like a better father i know like i want kids one day and the day i have kids and and obviously it's going to be a big part of who i am like sharing my experiences with them so they don't make those mistakes and so they know like who their father is and why the way he is because of his past mistakes, they never really leave you, like, those mistakes are always there, but you use that kind of like as a fuel in a direction to like navigate your life. So I like, I know like as someone that doesn't have kids yet, but wants kids, like I look

forward. Like that's something I actively think about. Now, if you could look at like your 15 year old self right now and have a conversation with that 15 year old self, what would you say to him? I would tell him to be a leader. Be a leader. Be a leader. leader, not a follower. And you think being the follower is like the root of all your issues? I think a lot of us are followers without realizing it, you know, because we tend to just like, we all have those leadership qualities, but it's like you got to pull those, somebody either has to pull those out of you or you got to pull them out of yourself. And doing it alone's hard, especially being a young kid. But yeah, due to, you know, following, I believe that that's where,

that's where like it there's an issue that lies with that for sure it's so like what's next for you what do you want to do like what's your goals what's your aspirations so my goal right now is i've been so consumed right and that's kind of hard because it takes a toll on you whenever you're so consumed because you get disconnected in a sense and like that that love and joy it's like a sense of it is absent from you in a sense you know what i'm saying because like it's a lonely road bro especially when you don't got like friends or anything like that because you had kids so young and then all your friends what they did you got to find a new group you got to find a new community um and that's hard by itself and then just managing a household and all that you know what I mean so like my ultimate goal is to

you know be as close as I can with you know my kids my children my family and to uh I really want to improve the quality of life around for the I really want to improve the quality of life for those around me in those closest to my heart for real. You know what I mean? And I want to help. I've always had a heart. And that's the problem that we're like, that I have with myself is like, why did you do those things, right?

Because I've always had a heart. Like I've always like had good intentions, but I was out there doing. That's where I said that like I was aware of my wrong doings, but I wasn't aware of like my awareness of who I was. And now I know who I am and I look back because I feel like self-reflection is very important. And you found you like your identity now. Yeah. And I found that.

And I'm not even saying. that, you know, I've completely found it, right? Because it's a process. You know what I mean? So like, I mean, we're all learning and growing daily, you know? But at least like now you have like that purpose. And I think you use your pain. You use that as like a motivator and you use that to be good.

Crazy drive. Because you don't know how powerful it is to share your experience as a pain. You don't know who you can affect. Like people listening, watching this right now. Like they could hear a story like yours. And if they're young, they could think, wow, I'm making those same mistakes. Let me not end up like that.

Or, wow, I don't want my kids to follow down that path. Or, wow, you know, change is possible. So, like, you can be affecting, even if what you feel like you're doing now is small, it's bigger once you're just sharing your story and putting it out there because it gives people hope in that sense. Yep. Yep. And that's the ultimate goal to the long term.

It's like, I want to inspire people to where, like, you know, your environment doesn't determine your destiny because a lot of people are just moving. subconsciously and they have the power to change that. And it comes with mindset. Like, you got actually want it, but you got to know what you want. So sometimes you got to look back into your childhood and just find out what you liked. And like, I've always wanted a kid named Jordan. I got a kid named Jordan. I always wanted a kid named Mitchell. You know what I mean? Like, I've always, like, wanted a family. I got a family. So you could like really manifest this stuff. And it's not like manifest whatever, like law of attraction. But you could really like, you just got to

find what you wanted and now that I've realized that now right now right yeah so now it's like and you get what you put into it yeah like if you want that good relationship you can't be a piece of shit exactly you can't not put in effort it doesn't come to you you can't like i say this all the time you want to lose weight you can't say i want to lose weight and not do anything you want to keep a good girl around you can't not put in the effort and be an asshole so it's just things like that you know it's mindsets everything it's so powerful and i think that values have a very like large role to play there right is having that value system like at your core that way you stand on your values like if i could send a message like younger kids or whatever you know

teenagers like have some sense of like have your values written down like what do you stand on what you stand on like rather it be loyalty rather it be honesty right um rather it be like all these things that that way like because you know it helps you define you in a sense you know what i'm saying and like write down your strengths and weaknesses too like right down your strength and weaknesses too like right your strengths like find go within definitely man well jesse thank you for coming on the show today it was great talking to you i i wish you the best and like your future and deavers um and you know rooting for you and everything's to come we're i'm sure there'll be more setbacks as there is for all of us on our journey but just keep pushing through and just remember where you came from on the path and you know

excited for you man i wish you the best thank you for having me of course of course