Locked In with Ian Bick - Arrested 18 Times Before I Finally Got Clean | Jess Bousa

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Jess Bousa’s life is the ultimate redemption story. He grew up with a rough childhood — his dad went to prison, his mom walked out, and he barely finished high school. Jess battled homelessness, addiction, stealing, and drug dealing, getting arrested 18 times before one final arrest landed him in jail for four months and into a rehab program that completely changed his life. #RedemptionStory #LockedInPodcast #AddictionRecovery #PrisonStories #SecondChances #HomelessToHope #InspiringStories #truecrimepodcast Thank you to BLUECHEW for sponsoring this episode: Visit https://bluechew.com/ and use promo code LOCKEDIN at checkout to get your first month of BlueChew FREE & pay five bucks for shipping. Connect with Jess Bousa: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@themustangmarketer?_t=ZT-8zZNKn9w8Ba&_r=1 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/1DVDg6maUg/?mibextid=wwXIfr Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessbousa?igsh=YmFrcDZ5OTZyamU%3D&utm_source=qr LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessbousa?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Use code LOCKEDIN for 20% OFF Wooooo Energy Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00 Intro & Guest Overview 00:43 Podcast Habits & True Crime Chats 01:45 Growing Up: Family Chaos & Early Life 04:43 Father’s Past & Family Background 09:03 No Bullies, Just Mischief 11:38 BMX Dreams & Extreme Behavior 13:33 High School: Moving, Theft & Small-Time Hustles 16:56 Escalating Crime: Shoplifting & Selling Drugs 20:48 Addiction, Arrests & Chaotic Living 25:51 Rock Bottom: Addiction, Homelessness, and Repeated Arrests 32:09 Turning Point: Jail, Rehab & Starting Over 36:40 Recovery & Finding Purpose 40:01 From Rehab to College & New Ambitions 48:41 Building a New Life: Church, Community, and Service 54:39 Transition to Business & Marketing Career 01:04:04 The Value of Sharing Your Story 01:06:01 Key Takeaways & Inspiration 01:08:09 Wrapping Up & Farewell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What happens next? 20 of us in the back room. Everyone's stripped naked. They're stripping our drugs away from us. You think you were an actual criminal at the time? Before I even knew it, I was addicted and not even known this was happening. Tell us about your experience in jail. Jess Boza was arrested 18 times.

He grew up with a dad in prison, a mom who walked out, battled homelessness, addiction, and a life of stealing and drug dealing. But one final arrest, four months in jail. and a rehab program completely turned his life around. Today, Jess is a successful business owner and proof that you can rewrite your story no matter how far you've fallen. Jess, welcome to Locked in. Thanks for having me.

Super excited to be here. Yeah, thanks so much for supporting the show and coming out here, reaching out and coming on the show to share your story. Yeah, I appreciate that. Top five podcasts I love to listen to. You actually help me sleep at night. You really do. I need something on.

And you could ask my wife, if it's either Amazon, Netflix or Ian Bix. I give people credit that can listen to a podcast while at the gym or going to sleep. I can't do it. It's just too distracting. I have to shut off the TV or anything before I go to sleep. Yeah, I'm like the opposite, though. I can't do it.

It helps me just relax. Yeah, there's a lot of people like that, though, that are able or that need the TV on or a podcast or anything. Yeah, we're that family over here. Yeah, to me, because when I find something interesting, then I just want to keep watching it. and I'll pause it and shut it off for the next day, so I don't get interrupted in it. That's true, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I would listen to a podcast and then turn it back on the next day and just listen to it again. I like repetition. Do you do YouTube or Spotify or Apple? YouTube. Yeah, I follow you through YouTube a lot.

Yeah, Spotify has some great video now, too, like they're really trying to be like YouTube. They even have a comment section and everything. I'm always like responding to people in the comments. Yeah, I'll go, my son uses Spotify. We'll check it out. Yeah, I'll definitely. like share a comment it's not as interactive as YouTube I people are so like I get it if you're on one platform you're not going to another and you know like if you if you like it on YouTube there's no way you're going to Spotify or Apple to watch it or vice versa you get stuck on but Apple's like in the Stone Age they have no video no video no video it's just audio only they used to be the thing like iTunes remember that was like the only thing we had

now there's so many more but yeah I mean I didn't start listening to podcasts until I started doing this. I had heard a podcast, but I thought it was just like audio. And then the whole world, the video exploded. And then, yeah, when I started this in, you know, 2023, that's when I started listening to other podcasts. Yeah. I like Rogan, Diary of a CEO. And there's a Jay Shetty. I love his podcast, too. Yeah. Yeah, I like the video component, too, to watch that. It helps me engage more of the audio, let's say if I'm driving or something. It's cool. But yeah, I love yours. Matt Cox has some good stuff. Johnny Mitchell. I like true crime things. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, gave you the Goodfellas is my favorite movie, hence I gave you the picture, the Goodfellow picture. So I love those true story, true crime stuff. Yeah, and I was telling you, I saw Goodfellas for the first time in prison. There's so many, like, I watched Prison Break for the first time last year. There's just so much stuff. I haven't seen it. I know, that's crazy. I love Prison Break. But I grew up on Goodfellas. So 1990 came out, I was like nine and my, you know, my family, they're cool with that. I was watching at nine years old. And, and, and, you know, And so anyways, probably connected to some things later I did in life.

That and casino I saw for the first time. Actually, the other picture I had is a casino picture. I was going to, it was between Goodfell's a casino. Well, they're both just going to like them. Yeah, I'll, a guest will say, hey, did you watch this movie like the other day when I interviewed the DEA agent? And he said, colors. Like, I didn't see it. No, there's so much good movies that I haven't seen it.

So I'm compiling a list of everything. I don't know if I'll get to it, but. But did you watch all a prison break? Yeah, I saw the whole. I'll watch it again. Dude, it's good. I know. I've watched it a couple times through the years. Yeah, it is so good. I'm trying to get Michael Rappaport on the show. Dude, you got to. Because I did his show. Okay. And we'll text every once in a while, and he lived kind of locally. And I'm glad I didn't have him on before I watched Prison Break because I didn't understand how big of a part he played in it. But I want him on just for that. I want to talk about Prison Break. Dude, that's awesome. You should do that. Where did you grow up, Jess?

So I grew up in Balloonfield, New Jersey. Before that, for the first couple years of my life, we were in the same area, Plainfield and East Orange, which is not far from there. So New Jersey, close to New York City is where I grew up. And then as I, my dad kind of story starts really when I was like two years old, two or three years old, my dad and my mom had a huge conflict that literally turned into. my dad being sentenced almost, or he was indicted with 99 years of charges. So my dad collected guns, some issues with my, he had some issues with my mom. He came home one day. He caught her cheating through an old wiretap system.

And so he came home one day, I was like two, and he confronted her about it. And he had a gun in his hand when this happened. And from the stories I've heard through the years, I think he, she, somehow the gun, hit her and like did some damage to her and then the cops came and there was like a whole closet of guns and so he got arrested she went to the hospital and he had 99 years of charges for all these guns and so forth automatic guns he was in the army you know when he was 18 so anyways that kind of was like the launching pad of my life and and then after that happened my dad tried to to get things together for my mom to, you know, to put us.

So he ended up getting five years in New Jersey prison. And so we was setting things up. And she just, she just was kind of wild. That's what it sounds like. She was wild and she literally gave us up to state, the New Jersey state house today. So we were like in foster care for like the early part of my life. But it makes a lot of sense. If, you know, as I, you know, my dad's story, if you talk, if you look at his where he grew up and how he grew up,

you could see some of these things, you know, why they happened for my life. You know, I was, he told me recently, did you ever see a movie The Irishman? No, I heard that's another good movie, too. You're going to get me in trouble right now, man. So in the beginning of the Irishman, my dad grew up in Pittston, Pennsylvania. So in the beginning of the Irishman, you got to watch it. It's really good. They talk about Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and the Buffaloino family.

My dad was so bad as a kid that this mobster, and he's huge. Google it. The Buffalo family went and let him. him hang out with his son. And so my dad has been around the block at a young age. I remember him telling me stories at like 16. He like ran away from home and he ends up in Las Vegas, you know, 10 years older. He's going to buy alcohol for his dad and that the alcohol, the liquor stores would allow that.

Like 10, 11, 12 year old kids buy it for their father to bring it home. And so anyways, you know, so that's early on. After my dad got out of jail, he was focused. He was sober And actually two weeks after he did he did 18 months And he got custody of me and my brother Two weeks after he got out of jail So you could see how not good my mom's situation was

You know and leaving us in the state custody And how good he was doing at that point And so he got us he got full custody to us And then moved us into my grandmother's house Who became my grandmother and grandfather Became like pivotal and instrumental in my life To Bloomfield, New Jersey So that's where

kind of it began, you know, as I can remember. How was he wiretapping your mom? And was your mom actually cheating? She was. I mean, he tells this, like, if you talk to my dad today, he will tell you the same story. He tells this story every single time I see him. He lives in Florida.

He likes to repeat himself. But old school, wiretap, like, and I think I remember seeing these things at my grandmother's house years and years ago, like a cassette tape that was recording the phone. And somehow he was hiding this, like, cassette deck thing, small things. and he said he had evidence. Yeah, so it's a wild story. You know, I should have prefaced everything to say, you know, I'm going to go through some crazy stories.

I wouldn't change my story because if I changed any part of it, I wouldn't be who I am today. And I'm grateful for where I am today. You know, there's been ups and downs and all arounds in my story. But if you change any part of it, you know, I wouldn't be where I am. And I'm super content, happy. Have, you know, a beautiful wife and kids and great business. But again, it was very difficult to get to this point from a, you know, a catalyst of a story I just told you. Yeah, and I think it's relatable to all the guests that come on the show in my story, too.

Like, you look at all the crazy things you had to go through those moments to get to where you are today. Yes. And again, yeah, I don't regret anything. Obviously, you wish you could do some things differently because of the people that you hurt in the process. But all of it, you know, has been used to get me to today. And, yeah, I'm thankful. Was your dad's arrest publicized in the paper? Yeah, it's still very, it's still actually, he didn't know about how you can search yourself until recently. You're like, you know, case searches.

So my dad's, dude, you should have my dad on. But he, he, he re, so one time, I mean, so I went to, I went from homeless to Harvard and we'll go through that. But I was in school in Massachusetts in Boston. And I got a phone call from my dad's in the bathroom, in his house, in Lake Apaca, more northern. Jersey and he's got the bathroom barricaded and he's like, Jess, SWAT teams at the house. I, what should I do? I'm like, Dad, what's going on? He just got me.

So he's calling me. I'm at graduate school. He's in the shower. This is a true story. He could Google it. SWAT teams at the house and they want to arrest them because right before that there was a cop on the bottom of our property who, I can't remember all the details, drew a gun on him. And my dad said, was about to draw a gun on him.

And my dad had a rock in his hand. He was about to get a rock. He says, if you take that gun out of your holster and I'm going to throw this rack at your face. So the guy went for his mace instead of the gun. And my dad got maced, ran up the hill to our house, ended up in the bathroom and called me. And I was like, dad, just go get arrested like a man and we'll handle it. So then I drove back through, you know, through Connecticut from Massachusetts to my dad's house. And he recently, this happened in two things.

2005, and I told him about case search, and now he's, that's on the case search, that situation. But they made it. He says he disarmed a police officer. So anyways, yes, the long story is short, all the stuff's on to the case search. Did people give you a hard time, like bully you pick on you because of your parent's situation when you were a kid? No, no, no. We were, we grew up in Bloomfield, New Jersey, close to Norc. So like, it's like a melting pot of all kinds of people. And we were on the tougher side of things. My dad, tough. always kept us tough. And, you know, so yeah, no, no, we weren't bullied. We, if anything, we probably bullied, but, you know, or something, you know, we were, but I wouldn't say we were bullies. We, we loved everybody. Everyone loved us. It was kind of a value that my grandmother instilled in us. And so we had friends, every different color ethnicity, you know, we were like the only white kids on the block. We're living in North, you know, Bloomfield, North New Jersey. So how would you have described yourself back then? So I was the class clown, the wild child.

ambitious, you know, as a kid, daredevil. So I was an amateur BMX professional bike rider. So like, so moved to Bloomfield. I actually was on the phone with my best friend driving up here today. And we started riding bikes at like five, literally. And so we rode bikes from five years old to like 17. So in that process, I really loved it. My goal was to be like one of the 100 people or so like a paid to ride a pedal bike,

BMX freestyle bikes. You know, do you understand that? Yeah, my brother used to do BMX and everything. Exactly. So at one point, I was sponsored by the local bike shop. I remember they paid for me to go to some contest. I went to Woodward. So when I was 16, that was like the mecca of extreme sports.

There was only one of them in PA, Woodward. That's where the professional athletes live. Now there's like seven of them or so around the country. But Dave Meera, are you familiar with that name? Google it. So he's the like the godfather of BMX. He won the most gold medal. titles in Extreme Games, he was my instructor that day.

And we were there for a week. By the end of the week, I won a contest there with a guy who ended up in winning the first Extreme Games dirt jumping contest, and he's still a professional to this day. So that was my thing. Like, I lived and died riding my bike all the time and got really good at it. One contest, I remember there was a contest on Flemington Speedway in New Jersey, box jump, huge Speedway, big metal ball with the... the dirt bikes, riding in the circles.

You've seen those things made by fairs. And so, yeah, I loved it. So I was an extremist. Let the word started. Some of the extreme things. You know, I wasn't scared to fall. I mean, I've broken multiple bones, my teeth, my leg, my, my wrist, my knee, you know, multiple things have happened. Did you plan on taking BMX all the way, like, as a career?

Yeah. Yeah. So the Gals in mind. No, that was it. I mean, I mean, other than, yes, I wanted to, and it was kind of working. And then obviously take, you know, we'll talk about the, you know, we'll talk about the, you know, the U-turn of my life or the, you know, the turning point that changed things. But yeah, but I also had wanted to be in like law enforcement.

Like I wanted to do that. Actually, I was in, you know, we're kind of going all over in the story. But I was my first year out of high school, which we'll talk about in a second, was I was in criminology at a county college, community college, Morse County Community College and I was getting arrested while I was taking criminology classes, which is hilarious. So tell us about high school. So, so we lived in Bloomfield.

until eighth grade, eighth grade summer going in ninth grade, we moved, my dad got remarried and he married my brother's best friend's mom. So she had five kids plus me and my brother. And they wanted to get us out of the city area like, you know, Newark and stuff because it's going to, you know, because it might, there might be bad things we could pick up. Well, we moved to Lake a pack on and it was way worse up there, you know, the white suburban area. And so they thought they were escape, you know, helping us escape, but we were just like, it was like a opening of door to like all kinds of crazy things. So we moved to Lake A Pack in ninth grade. So I started new school ninth grade. Met awesome people. We, my brother and I and my other stepbrothers, we connected

with everybody. I, that's where again, BMX got really more involved in BMX. I mean, I rode my bike everywhere. But I really didn't pay attention to school. I, I didn't start doing drugs or yeah because I was an athlete, but I did like to steal things and my brother. Like, we love the steal things when we were younger. I mean, we did some crazy things. We, one, I was, you know, going through some of these stories, but one time in high school, we stole back on the day, you have, you would have to, when you get your license, you would bring like $5. This is when we were there. And you're like, your birth certificate and, and your social security card and, like, for driver's ad. One time we stole all of those $5 from, like, the whole driver's at,

class and then threw everybody's birth certificates away. But those were some of the fun things because we were bored. But I had a racket where we would go to the malls and I would literally get a list of things from kids that wanted in school. Like I remember back in the day, we actually helped, we set trends. We were different things. The visor hats. We sold a lot of those hats, phones. So anything a teacher wanted or a student, we would get a list and then go to the mall, steal it and then sell to them the next day. Like we literally did that. Some of the protocols and processes that these security people have these days, like Home Depot, we, we created those. We like, because of how much we stole. This is, I mean, I'm told, I bought

five cars when I was a senior. Five used cars when I was a senior in high school because we were just selling so much stuff. I always had money. And that bled into selling drugs. But, um, so we had a, we were, we were, we were, we were, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we went to the, we went to the mall. Um, we, we did a lot at the mall. like a lot. I actually went to the Danbury Mall today. You didn't steal anything, do you? No, I didn't steal anything.

We don't need them after us. No, we don't need that. Yeah, it's been since February, February 10, 2002 is the last time I drank, drugs, or stole, or committed a crime. So just to put that out there. But, yeah, we would go to the malls and do all kinds of stuff. I remember there was, like, those vendors that are out there in the middle, like selling things. Like, we took the whole cash box. There was like $5,000, like when they weren't looking.

You know, purses. One of the craziest things I remember, though, my brother, when we got a group of us, and this is back on the day when they didn't really build the malls as good as they probably changed what they did because of things we used to do. But at night, we'd go to the mall in the back alleys of the mall behind the stores. We would break through the wall on the side of the metal doors. And they were sheetrock with wood. and literally just make a hole through the wall. And I remember one time,

the store's out of business now, but this is when DVD players just came out. Like, they were like $1,000. I don't know if you're, this is years ago, years ago when we were in high school. And we did that, got like bags of DVDs. They had DVDs. I don't even think they were selling them.

They were like, they were like on showcases, like in the very beginning of DVDs. But we got DVD players, CDs, DVDs, bags of stuff, video games. I can't remember what the PlayStation 1, whatever was out. And we would arm, we, I remember us like five of us, army crawling through the mall parking lot.

And we did get away. Eventually some people, I think got caught because, you know, they'd start talking and so forth. But yeah, so that, that was high school. My brother, a sad thing, crazy story that happened in high school, one of my brothers, my brother, my only brother. And his best friend, who was like a second brother, they literally, they robbed a gas station with Halloween mask,

with maglites, like a local gas station. And they got away with it. Like they strong arm robbed. And they were like 15, 16. So they got away with it. This is when we're in high school. And eventually people start talking. And his best friend, who was like a second brother,

Tolan ratted on intern state, you know, against my brother. And my brother got a, you know, like a life sentence as a juvenile. He had to do like two and a half years. They wanted to give him like 10. But my dad got a lawyer. And so he was most half a high school or more. He was in, you know, like a Jamesburg, New Jersey, Gladiator School. Why did you feel the need to steal?

That's a good question. I guess maybe because we didn't, my dad, we didn't have a lot. And, you know, we didn't have a lot. We had enough, though. It's like I didn't have to. But I always, I guess maybe the adrenaline, because there's a lot of adrenaline robbing things and stealing. But yeah, maybe because we didn't, we wanted more.

And we were, I was an extreme type of person, chased adrenaline. Do you think your dad was a good parent at the time? Or do you think prison kind of made him more out of sheltered or not wanting to be a good parent? No, no, he was a good parent at that time. Yeah, he was clean. So for 15 years or 14 years after jail, he never drank or did any drugs, nothing. Until he caught me doing drugs when I was 18. He took drugs from me.

He thought that it was Coke. heroin when I was 18 and then he put him and hid them and then one day he decided to do them and it started like I don't know it was like a 10 year run on drugs and chaos that's when he ended up you know calling me from the bathroom so was he not strict with you no he wasn't he had a girlfriend I lived with my grandparents they were amazing we I was taking the bus from bloomfield in New York City like when I was like in eighth grade like seventh grade like buying firecrackers and phones and, you know, bootleg things in Chinatown, like me and my friend. That's a, so they allowed us to do whatever we wanted.

So you can, you know, your grandparents usually are more relaxed. And he was working. He started a really successful construction business and he was in his 20s. He was building multi-million dollar condos, which is a lot back then and houses, framing houses and condos. So he was running like this Motley crew type of construction company. We live with my grandmother. He lived there too.

He had a girlfriend. We would go to New York City with him. He loved, I don't, there was. It was loose there. It was loose. Guys, enter the room. Trouser Titan first. Blue Chew isn't just a tablet.

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So in high school. So, oh yeah, yeah, the 17. So I was about 17. And the bike thing was there. It was like at the crossroads, like I was doing really well with bikes. And then like some of my best friends, the star athletes of the, you know, all the sports who we were best friends with introduced me to drugs. Like, and I did it. Like I should have never did it because I've said no many times through the years.

And I was just so focused on doing the right thing with bikes. And that just like one time I was like hooked. Like first hooked on selling it. Like I, you know, I have a business mindset. Like I was a street pharmaceutical type of individual. And so I saw this opportunity to sell, then you're at school. It's like the best place to sell drugs, right? You know, even though you could get caught easily.

So early on I got caught, though, selling 26 pills of ecstasy when I was 18 in high school. I was still, I was senior year. And I was, I had 26 pills in my pocket. And I was just pulling up to one of my best friend's house and a cop pulled right behind me. And I was so stupid. This was in the beginning. And that, you would think I would have learned. But my dad, let me go to jail.

So five days in county jail, eventually they let me out on my ROR. And then, but I was in the newspaper, you know, drug dealer. So it was labeled. And so that was difficult a little bit going back to school because everyone knew that, you know, and I had to finish schools. So at that point, we were, things started to get real wild. So during that, right after that, at some point, we went to Woodstock. So one of my best friends' family, they have a lemonade stand business at like NASCAR events. they got the gig at Woodstock. So they're like, get 30 your best friends, coach bus,

two days before, two days after, VIP pass, food the whole time, and we'll pay you, and you just got to sell lemonade. Did you see the Woodstock documentary? I swear, one of those pictures is me. Dude, it was wild. So 30 of our best friends were all together for that time. And, and I mean, that, like, amplified and supercharged, like the drug because the acid, the mushrooms, everybody was doing everything. together, you know, and the riots, we were like right in the middle of that. We were throwing cars and ATM machines and those, you got to watch the documentaries. It's called train wreck because the whole thing was a train.

Yeah, I saw it. It was disgusting. The place ended up being like so disgusting because of the trash they didn't take away. And so, and no one cared. But yeah, so, I mean, it was like a combination. Like, I got arrested and that was, ecstasy was the door into like the club scene. So then somehow, some way, I can't remember all of these details. but we ended up selling drugs in the club.

So the ecstasy connection, and that's where people did it, Exitc and K. So I remember one time I had 144 licks of K and hundreds of pills. And one time I was in the club and I was just thinking through all this. And the club got raided. But now that I look back on it, and a bunch of drug dealers were in like a back room and we had to all take our clothes off. But I think it was like the club doing it just to get our drugs.

You know, because I was on, I was high and maybe it did get rated. But I remember one time they had like 20 of us in the back room. Everyone's stripped naked. They're stripping our drugs away from us. And again, I don't, you know, so that was wild. The sound factory, the tunnel and some other local, you know, raves and, you know. So this was like senior year. Senior year.

This is all happening in senior year. And what kind of clubs are you selling drugs in? So New York City clubs and then like there would be raves that would happen. They let you in at 17 years old? No, no, I was 18. So it was 18, 19. Yeah. So, yeah.

I didn't start doing drugs until. an alcohol until I was like 17, almost 18. Then I got caught selling drugs. I got a possession would intend to distribute charge when I was 18. But I got, you know, PTI probation before or P.J or whatever, you know. And while you're doing that, you were doing criminology classes. Well, yes. Yeah. Well, I, well, no, then I graduated. Like, they literally forced us to leave the school. Me and my brother tormented this community. When me and my brother and my dad all have multiple resisting arrest on the police department in that town. We've been arrested together multiple times, me, my brother, and my dad at different times.

But they, like, when, well, Luke was in, Luke was in jail, right, juvenile prison. And I, and I just, that last year, I didn't care at all. So they, but they let, they were like, I remember that we were in a meeting with the principal. They're like, well, you got to go. We're letting you graduate, like, even though you shouldn't. So, and then that bled into, you know, senior year bled into the first year of community college. And that's when you went for criminology. Yeah.

So I was in criminology. I did two semesters. So that's when at that point, I was selling drugs and the transition came where I became my best customer. So then I got addicted to heroin and cocaine. What interested you about criminology? Why would you want to go to law enforcement when you're already getting arrested? You're doing crimes, criminal behavior? Well, my, yeah, I guess my.

best friend who sadly passed away his dad who was influential was like the highest ranking state trooper in new jersey who like literally the first time ever got in trouble me and my brother at high at the mall um we had a terroristic threat and we were we were trying to steal at a at a a store in the mall and they knew we were we got a big fight saying we're going to kill you and we're like 17 or 16 so called immediately called dave smelts this the state trooper, first lieutenant, like, highest ranking. Like, and he got us out of it, actually. And so we had, I had a close relationship with Eric, who was his son, who passed away, you know, sadly a couple years ago.

Super amazing person and got caught up in drugs and alcohol. And so possibly Eric, you know, Eric's dad, who I'm, you know, who I talk to here and there still, actually. So what happens next? So we're, we're, now we're in community college. I start getting, you know, I start, I start getting addicted to the heroin and cocaine. And it actually just happens. You don't really know. You're just partying every day.

You know, you're doing, you're doing coke and heroin and drinking and, you know, just like, and then it's like the weekends and then Thursday, you know, through the weekend. And then it just ends up being every day. And honestly, before I even knew it, I was addicted and not even known this was happening. And so then I was, and so coming, then I started to steal like a lot. So I have been arrested 18 times. And I thought it was 16, but actually it was 18 because in 2018, when I went back to look at all my charges to get some financial securities license, stockbroker license, I was going to take that test. You have to get all your criminal stuff.

So I literally took Jessica. We went to Jefferson Township, Wayne, New Jersey, Norque. We went to five police departments, and I got all my paperwork. And I had 18 arrests at the end of the day. And there's things on there I forgot about. But I have like five or six shopliftings. I have like three or two or three resisting arrest, check fraud, wandering or loitering white people and a drug zone in Newark, New Jersey. I have a robbery charge, which essentially was an upgraded shoplifting because the last time I got arrested, I had 20 video games on me.

I was at a Walmart in Elizabeth, New Jersey, Union County, and I was on Xanax trying to get money to go sell. I would, you know, my my, my hustle was there's a store in Newark, New Jersey, and he would pay 50% cash for anything brand new, like video games, DVDs, and systems. So I took too many. It was February and I had like 20 video games. It was like $1,000 with the video games. So I'm all over myself. And I was on drugs too. And so I came out the store

It's a huge fight undercover or off-duty security guard Was a off-duty cop Cops are there I've somehow he broke his arm I don't remember this like in that fight We got into the car Me and my girlfriend at the time We're eluding I'm maced up bad

I'm like just pull over They you know I was I was done it was over We were like in the four cylinder Mustang going nowhere A million miles an hour And so then I then so then they just they they took everything they couldn't like because I had like five or six shopliftings close together because if you steal like every day multiple times the chances are what happens is like you just walk outside of the store and there's the cops are just there like if you're in multiple stores all the time we I literally

drove up and down new New Jersey like from the top and the bottom of the state to all the malls circuit cities best buys and literally stole video games and DVDs for three years and so I was so you're going to get caught it's just the it's the odds are against you So at that time, my dad kicked me out at 19. So I lost school at the end of that year. I got kicked out. But, and what happened was I was selling drugs. I was doing them, but I was selling them a little bit at that point just to make money for them.

And I was selling to an undercover informant. Somebody in our circle got arrested and was using me to not get in trouble. So I didn't know that until like the last buy. And it was three buys. So at the last one, I was like, this, there's no way. Because he was paying like five times how much he should. And that's when you know, I'm like, I'm, this sucks. And I was addicted to.

So one night we're at my dad's house and Lake a Pack on. It was like, I don't know, 10 p.m. He's on, he, I'm in the basement with a girl. We're smoking crack, which is horrible. And I was 19. And my dad was upstairs sitting on the couch with his wife watching a move. And all of a sudden, no knock search. you know, 19 Morris County prosecutor's officers would mask, officers would mask, break through the door.

So my dad, they didn't have anything disclosed in the front of them and they didn't say anything. So my dad is nuts, like I told you. He's literally choking two of these officers before they said, police, police. And once they said that, he stopped. And then they beat him up. I'm in the basement. I hear things going up. So, like, our basement just flooded, thankfully.

And there was no carpet. So I pushed all the crack like on this like concrete floor. They didn't find any of it because it just like blended into the concrete basement that needed a new rug. Like there's glue on the floor and stuff like that. So he's up there. They're like manhandling my stepmom. So my dad gets arrested and I get arrested. And they're looking for guns too because my, the gun charge are like, where's the guns?

The first thing they're saying, where's the guns? Because of that old gun charge. And then and then they don't find anything. There's obviously no guns. had a bag of weed and he gets arrested with worse charges than me because he, you know, assaulted a police officer. That started an eight year like civil suit with my dad and the courts. And he literally had a multi-million dollar payday coming.

And then that that situation happened I told you about with the, the rock and going to disarm a police officer. So he got arrested that day. And in order to get rid of the, either he goes to jail or he gives up the civil suit. So he gave up the civil suit and then go to. Exema. as unpredictable. But you can flare less with ebbglis. A once-monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema.

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I actually had drugs on me that they didn't know about in like a little pocket. So we both went to the Jefferson Township Dale. I had like a $10,000 with a $10. He had like a $50,000 with a $5 or with a $10. So I paid my $1,000.

I got out of jail. He had to go get processed into the county jail, which he wasn't happy about because he had like a assault on a police officer was bigger. I had like a paraphernalia. charge. So that was another, I had a paraphernalia charge. So that, you know, I was on probation for the distribution charge at that time. So I don't even remember what happened. I went, I did like the 30 days in jail. I did, I think that's what happened at the end of that. For selling to the undercover.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, for that possession charge. They were really, yeah, for the, I got the possession of marijuana charge at the end. Yeah. And it sounds an undercover. Yeah. But they, they became focused on my dad, for some reason. Like, we were bad. Like, they wanted me, my dad or my brother. Why'd they keep giving you so many chances and slaps on the wrist? Like, you know, why allow someone to get arrested 18 times? I know, dude. Keep getting out and keep doing that same behavior. I kept things organized, even though my life was chaotic.

Like, when it came to, like, I always paid my fines. Even though I was out in the streets, living in crack houses and sheds and stuff, literally it was homeless for, like, probably, you know, two or three years, literally bouncing around. And I've lived in a shed, slept in abandoned houses. end up moving in those three years after I got kicked out of my dad's house after that arrest, the house getting raided. I literally moved to North New Jersey, like down the road from my drug dealer. Like, it was crazy.

Like, and I remember renting, like, a room, like, white kids and a, you're not supposed to do that or be there. But they didn't care. I was bringing them money, and they were cool with us because, like, I was their client, like, one of their best. And I ended up doing $300 worth of. drugs a day. Literally, that's, I was doing 30 bags of heroin a day. And how are you able to do 30 bags of heroin without overdosing? Well, if you're, you just, you build a tolerance and you just, you know, I use some coke with it. And yeah, I just, I have overdosed. Thankfully, I didn't die the

one time I remember. Um, my friends, you know, helped me get back, you know, to life, essentially after I was blue in the face and so forth. But multiple people have died. So in our situation, like I could, you know, from 16 years old until, you know, even recent, like, you know, he's telling you about my best friend Eric. He passed away a couple of years ago. So, like, we had this lock and hold in our community on heroin. Like, and we were bad, bad. Yeah, we were bad. If we had fentanyl, we'd all be dead.

Like, I'd be dead. I should have been dead back then, but fentanyl is killing people quicker. Do you think the crimes you committed were all influenced by your addiction issues? Everything was, yeah. Everything I did was influenced by addiction. And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think you're trying to escape something, like something internally? Yeah, I mean, once you start getting arrested, and, like, as you know, you get a record and it does limit what you can do in life.

So once I knew, you know, like, you can't go down the path of criminal justice. And I do remember wanting to be like a, like a U.S. Marshal now that I think through it, you know, crazy, right? So, yeah, I guess then you, then you, it does get addicting, physically addicting. Like, and I've been to six rehabs before, you know, in that three years, I tried to get off of drugs. My dad helped me, family help me. But if you never do it for yourself and just other people or a situation, you know, so eventually like the seventh rehab changed my life, you know, after the 18th arrest. Now, how many years are you going through addiction and getting arrested and getting let out and not facing any serious repercussions?

So it was three years. So I literally turned 21 in jail. So 18, 19, and 20 I was out there running and gunning. And, you know, it was literally hell on earth. I was good at making money, selling things and stealing. But it still was torture. And you never worked a regular job at all at that point. Never.

Like my first, no, I never worked a job until I started my own things. But I did have a job when I was riding my bike at a local restaurant for a day. It was washing dishes. And I was like, dude, I literally walked out. I'm like, I need to get on my bike. I can't do this. It was like $4.25 an hour. That's the only job I ever had that wasn't working for myself.

And you had no communication with your mom? So my mom recently passed away, which is sad. But no, I did have communication. Very little, a little bit. My dad was my main, you know, stable parent in my life. But she would pop in and out of there at times. And then, you know, the last couple of years a little bit more, and more, you know, sadly, she passed away at 70. So. How detrimental do you think your parents ending their marriage was to your growing up and future? Do you think this was all caused by their breakup? Was that like the impactful moment in your life?

No, I think divorce has a very powerful impact on kids' lives. So it could be. I mean, I was three or two. So I didn't. really know anything but my grandmother, you know, and my grandfather raising my brother and I and my dad being there. So things were very good, you know, they gave us everything we wanted. So I didn't start stealing until it was like 16, 17 when I was out of their house. You know what mean? Yeah. So, but yes. I mean, obviously when a family's divided, it's more difficult. But did anyone teach you right from wrong not to steal? No. Um, Like maybe they tried to teach you after, but before that. Yeah, I don't remember.

No, I don't, I don't remember. No, I don't remember. I don't, I don't, I'm assuming my dad, my dad doesn't steal. He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't do that. He's very, he has high integrity when it comes to money. So I don't, I don't, I don't think so. It was the influence of people around me. Actually, the first time ever got, I remember now.

The first time ever got caught stealing, the first time I ever stole, I got caught stealing. I was like, I was living in Bloomfield still, still. still. I was with one of my best friends. I stole a pair of Scotty Pippin shoes and literally got caught. And I think he was older and I was younger and they'd just let me go. But that was when I was, again, I was still living in Bloomfield. So it was like middle school, like at the, at the Willowbrook Mall. But it didn't really get aggressive until it was like a little business I had in high school. So you're on this binge from 17 to 20. What happened to 20 before your 21st birthday?

So I'm like before the last arrest, you know, I'm literally living in like, like driving up and down New Jersey, living in these like little hotels and motels or in the car using heroin, coke. You know, and I and then that last time I got that, you know, February 10, 2002, that Walmart incident happened. And that time I couldn't get out of jail. So the other times, yeah, sometimes I bailed out. Sometimes they let me out. I did 30 days was the most before that. And so this time, they're like, you're getting three years in jail now.

We're not letting you out. So, and I can't remember the bail, but nobody was paying it. And so I was about to sign to do the three years and, you know, three flat. So three flat in New Jersey at that time, drug, well, there was a robbery charge. So there was forced to use in the course of theft. So I might have had to do 85%. You know, I forget. But right before I was signed that,

But right before that, I did some bad things to my dad. And he should have never came and did what he did. Like, one of the worst things I did was I literally robbed all this stuff in his house and made it look like somebody else did and then called the police on that other person, which was me. And he thought it was somebody else who did it. I mean, he knew was me, I think. But I did some horrible things.

And so I was in jail that last time after 18 arrests. And he came to court. And he's like, just don't sign that. I found this rehab that you can go to, we think. It's out of state, though. So we got to get things lined up because New Jersey, most states don't let you go out of state. You probably know that to do things.

So I didn't sign it. We went back in front of the judge, and they said, yes. They said that actually is the only rehab will let somebody go to. And it's called Teen Challenge. Oh, I've heard of that. Yeah. And they changed the name as adult and Teen Challenge, which this place changed my life.

So I'm obviously homeless, addicted, student debt, credit card debt, all these arrests, no license, you know, walking into, you know, well, into jail. So I stayed there four months. And then I was released to the rehab. And I remember the judge said, listen, he's like, if you don't finish this rehab, if you get in trouble in this rehab, I will give you up to 10 years. That's what kept me in that rehab for the most part until like I wanted to be there until I was like, you know what, there is a purpose on my life to do something beyond, you know, the party scene and so far. forth. So I went to the rehab. I did four months in Union County, which we just drove by coming to see you in Elizabeth, New Jersey's where Union County Jail. So I did four months in the county, and then my dad came and picked me up and then drove me to Syracuse, New York. So I did,

I actually did 14 months in rehab, four months in Syracuse, New York, eight months in Rairsburg, Pennsylvania. And then before I went to college, there was like a two-month gap. I'm like, I don't want to go home because I know if I go home, you know, bad things could happen. So I went and just like volunteered at the rehab for two months. So I went from homeless to jail to rehab to rehab to college. Now, you said that you were in and out of rehab a few times before tried to go to rehab. Yeah. Why did those times not work? Because I wasn't going for the right reasons. I was going to dodge, you know, at those times, I was there was small criminal charges like to dodge like small jail times or to like please the probation or probably a little bit I wanted to get help because I knew it was hard but when you start getting sick dope sick it's very difficult to kick it's the hardest thing in the world to do and it is good to be in jail to do that because you have no other chance or option because when you're in a rehab you start getting sick you just walk away or you meet somebody and you're like let's go and it's just like one time I one time I had the whole

rehab strip search by the state police because I brought drugs in. Like it was just I just was bad all around. Tell us about your experience in jail. So those four months, you know, I was just an emotional road coaster. So I went in there obviously kicking heroin, huge huge habit. I remember initially I was in with this younger guy that was doing like 20 years for robbery and he was wild. We fought like in ourselves together like playing. chest and checkers. Like he's a kid who's just like losing it because, you know, as you, when people are there a long time, they don't care.

And they don't like people who are in their short time. So, so that first month I was with him, it was difficult. I'm kicking drugs, fighting with this, my roommate. You never know what's going to happen. Big guy. I'm like 130 pounds, nothing, right? You know, I'm like 225 now. And so, but thankfully, I was moved to spend the next three.

months with this guy. I remember, you know, Albert Salazar. He was in for, he was a second, this is a second murder charge that he was doing. So he served one murder and committed another murder because of a robbery that somebody died in. Nice guy, old guy, so calmer, you know, like he was like in the 60s. It just kind of, you know, took me under his wing, helped me, you know, go through the process. We talked a lot, told stories. Just helped you, you know, if you find a good connection, it helps you jail better, played basketball. I mean, But, yeah, I mean, it's been a while. It's been 20, you know, 2002, so 23 years since I've been there.

But yeah, but in jail, I, you know, I wasn't, I didn't change yet. I didn't change it. I still wanted to, like, do my thing. This, you know, all those demons still of addiction were still in there. Yeah. So nothing yet changed. So then I went to the rehab. And it actually got worse than the rehab.

I like, really didn't want to be in the rehab. especially the first six months. I, like, tried hard to almost get kicked out. Like, I was fighting with people, cursing people out. I just, I just was wild still. Like, still, again, all the struggles inside of me. And then the rehabs ends up being, like, a faith-based rehab. And, like, I wasn't looking for faith.

I just, I mean, I tried a lot of things to, like, be focused on and find purpose. Like, to try to not do drugs. I had, like, coaches and counselors and drugs to get off drugs. and, you know, rehabs and therapy and meetings and, like, all those things never, for me, at least got me, you know, to stay sober. So I was like, you know, God, if you're real, like, do something, like, reveal yourself. Like, I don't know. I don't even know what to pray, you know, like, at that point.

But it just felt like when I didn't know what to pray and God just, I just felt like God met me in that moment and just like, what mostly happened in that moment was I just, the desire to like with those demons to do bad things. and drugs, like, left. Like, and I just, I wasn't, like, desiring to do drugs again. So that was, like, six months into the rehab. So it was, like, halfway done. So I was like, you know what, maybe there's something greater for my life.

Maybe there is a purpose. Maybe I could do something with my life. And so for the second six months of the rehab, I kind of just really focused in on the classes and the meetings. And the Bible was the tool they use that teen challenge, you know, to help you understand life and purpose. and recovery and just read, I never read a book until rehab. Like literally, I don't remember ever read a book ever in school until rehab, which is,

you know, when I was 20. So, so at this rehab, teen challenge ends up being like a pretty powerful program that's been around for a while. The name is kind of antiquated, but the program's not. So it has an 86% cure rate of people who go to a teen challenge and stay there. and then graduate five years later, 86% of the people are still sober and clean. And people try to disprove that.

And that's like a, that, that study came out of people trying to disprove that, that the program doesn't work. So I'm in the program like, you know what? I want to help people. No one wants to help. Like I want to use my life to do something. Like, I got this.

And I want to, that, so that was my mission is to help people. No wants to help. And I felt like God wants me to start a church. That's what happened, actually. So I want to start a church for people that don't like church. Like, and I did that. I did that. So went to, but before that, went to rehab, graduated.

Um, I, this is a side thing. I remember one, like the month before I graduated, Alvin Iverson came to that rehab because one of his family members graduated from in Pennsylvania. It was a, why, it was a crazy day and he was there. I graduated the next month. So one of our students graduated was, you know, one of our coast, you know, students. So after the rehab, that rehab was connected to a college called Valley Forge Christian College in Pennsylvania.

So I didn't sign up for any other ones. I just signed up for that one. I went to that school. That's the only one that probably would take me. It's the only one I applied for. And I, and my dad actually, again, came through in a big way. Like, because I didn't have any money. I had, like, credit card debt and all kinds of debt and issues.

I went to college with no license and everything. And so he helped me financially that first year to get in so I could start getting financial aid and like clear debt and so forth. And so and I just went there with like a mission. Like everything I did wrong in life, I got to start doing right. Like I didn't do anything right in high school. I said I'm going to do the opposite here. So I just like studied as hard as possible. Like I took that whole extreme thing of me and did that at school.

And gracefully and thankfully, you know, I graduated at the top of my class. literally. I got two bachelor's degrees. I didn't even know he's doing that. He's just taking so many classes. I met so many amazing people. It just was a great experience. And it was actually part of my like recovery too. Like I was in a community the whole time like living in dorms with people around me. So it helped, right? Jail rehab to college. And then I wanted to, you know, pursue. Crack a Cayman Jack Margarita with real line. Gave nectar and real margarita taste.

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No. So there's a, it just, it gets addicting almost. Like, it's a cool environment to be in if you, like, want to be there and learn and maybe become a professor or so forth. And that was one of my goals at one point. So, and one of my professors, who was a mentor, went to Harvard. And how he did it, he went to Gordon-Cowellewological Seminary in South Hamilton, Massachusetts, and outside of Beverly, Massachusetts.

I don't know if you're familiar with that. that. So that school has a relationship with Harvard. I'm like, you know what? If he could do it, I could do it. So I went to Gordon Conwell and did two master's degrees. And one, and they, we share classes. So Harvard comes to us. We go to Harvard. And so I went to Harvard and took the tea there for a year and did two doctoral classes there and did two master's degrees at Gordon Conwell. I wrote three books when I was in, at, in my graduate school. I helped an awesome pastor, or start a church up there. And so it was a really, like, again, more community still, like, went from, you know,

again, jail or rehab or jail rehab undergrad to grad, living on campus. So, you know, I was, like, away, like, for, like, is that, let's see, four, five, six, six and a half, seven and a half, like eight years straight. Like, that was eight years of my life. And then I wanted to start a church that nobody, you know, for people that don't, you know, for people that don't like churches. And, and I had no, again, I don't have no background in this stuff. Like, you know what I, you know my background. I just told you at all. But it actually did help a lot because people could relate to, like, my story. Like, I literally, my wife just said, are you nervous?

I was like, not really. I used to tell my story for a living. Like, that's my story, God's grace through my life, is what I told people and literally pulled all kinds of people and resources. And we started a really great church in in Maryland. We had like 1,500 people, five locations, two main campuses. People bought me million dollar pieces of property with like buildings for the campuses. We had, we had a church in a nightclub, actually. The fifth location was in Towson, Towson. So Towson has a nightclub called the Torrent. And literally they let us plug into all their amazing equipment. I had that place packed. All their lights. It was awesome. I'll show you pictures. So I did Daffer from 2009 moved to Maryland. I didn't know anybody. A church was like, hey, if you want to

start a church, we'll sponsor you. Go do it. So they did that. And they gave me a building. This little crazy little white building, like the worst building you could possibly use, but it actually worked. Like it goes against every rule I learned in my master's program about like church planning. But it was this little building. We actually had a studio in there. We had some musicians come there and we made our own music and so forth. But it actually worked. It was this little white building, but I had 500 people coming to this little white building.

It's almost like this, like if you take every square foot as your office, this little spot I could get 100 people into. I had four services, and we had like 500 people coming to it within like six months. And then it expanded to other buildings and schools and clubs and so forth.

And we were just preaching a message that God loves everyone and wants the best for you and has a purpose for your life, just like happened to me. And people's lives were changed. But it was very, it was a crazy time too. It was like very taxing, overworked.

I was leading it all. You know, with a team, we had a great team. I was, you know, stressed out a lot. A lot of success, a lot of difficulty at home. It just, in 2018, I just, I transitioned into owning my own businesses. So you did that for 16 years? I did that. Well, I was in school.

I did that for seven years. Okay. Seven. I mean, eight years in school, in jail, rehab. and then seven years leading the church that I left in somebody's hands. And then the great stuff. We started a recovery program. Amazing things happened.

I, again, was overworked. It was a lot of people, you know what I mean? A lot going on, very difficult volunteers. So, and it was just 2018, it was just time to me. It was like a year of transition for me. I left the church and started some new business. businesses. And were you paid for that position? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, in the beginning, there was no money. I literally, you have to create your own salary, like, by giving. So when

people give, that creates the money that you can like pay the bills for the building, pay the salaries. So yes, eventually it was a decent job. It was a good job. In the beginning, there was no money. So you have to like raise the money. So like just like a nonprofit. So how I did it was, I, and I started a nonprofit first. Like, I'm like, you know what? I'm not doing it. I'm not what all these other religions and churches do, I'm going to go into this community and love 10,000 people and do something good for them before we even talk about the church. That's what we did. So it was called good cause. And we just loved people with no strings attached, young people, single moms, and just help people. And off the all that good work, then it was an easy transition

to start a, you know, a life-giving church for people that didn't go to church. Now the rehab you were in, was that just teenagers? No, no. So that's the thing about teen challenge. It's not for, teens. It's not for teens, actually. It used to be, it's a good, there's a really good book. It's really thin. It's called The Cross and a Switchblade, David Wilkerson, you could Google this. In 1958, I think it was the 50s, there was this high profile gang trial in New York City. I think it was Brooklyn. And he went there. He was, he's a farm boy, I think, somewhere in Pennsylvania, and literally felt like God told him to go, he was reading the newspaper, go help those kids. He walks in randomly into the court and somehow weaves himself into that

trial and gets the kids off murder charges or so forth and then starts teen challenge for it. And then it grows around the whole world. There's like hundreds of these locations. And it used to be for kids. Now it's hard to have programs for kids because of the insurance and so forth. So very fewer for kids. And then hence is why they changed it to adult and teen challenge. But I think they keep the teen challenge name for the tradition because it still helps them raise

money and connect to the history. But there's no teens in it. I was in a teen when I was in it. And there was, I've never seen a teen in it. So out of that sentence for that last charge, all you had to do was four months in jail and then the rehab. Then complete a program, then four years of probation. Okay. Which you went to college for?

Yeah. So while I was in college, I was going to probation, taking drug test. It was kind of crazy. But yeah, I was in a Bible college going to take a drug test, which was weird. And you had no desire to do drugs once you left that rehab? No, no, no, no, no, I never have, never did. Yes, none. So that's over what?

23 years now? 23 years, yeah. Yeah. So I gave you a chip. So we, we start, we have four recovery homes in our, in our world. And Matt and Evelyn Anders, the best people in the world run them. So we have, they have a woman's house and three men's house. And one of them, we named the comeback house.

It was the first one we bought. And so we have these little chips, which I gave you, you know, when you, you know, graduate the program. We gave, we're given some of those away. But Matt and Evelyn run the homes And so they help the people nobody want They literally get people who are homeless And help get them help and treatment And then into our houses

And they do a wonderful job So yeah Do you think you got lucky Or you were privileged to get that opportunity To go to rehab instead of prison With your criminal record? I don't know I would say

You could say It felt like I was lucky It was like random But it might have You know I think it was God's plan Obviously for that to happen I don't know if what your thoughts about that are, but it shouldn't happen. Like, I had the worst record.

And, you know, and it was out of state from Jersey in New York. That doesn't happen. But from what I understand, what they found out was there was one judge that had a good experience with somebody going to it. And we had to change judges, get that judge, and that judge let me go to it. And that all happened for me to go out of state. So, yeah. So, yeah. Do you believe that people that are dealing with addiction should be given the opportunity to go to rehab,

rather than jail or prison? Absolutely, yeah. I mean, nothing good comes out of jail. I don't know. I mean, you definitely meet some good people. It definitely makes you think a lot. But there's, I mean, the jails I was in, and I was in Norke down Green Street, which is the worst. That's the worst one.

I was literally sleeping under, on a mat, under somebody's, you know, Morris County Jail, Union County Jail. a couple. So there's no rehabilitation stuff, at least from my perspective, you know, or minimal. And there's some jails that have more than others now. But I think everyone should, you know, be in a loving, caring, really supportive recovery program. But again, people are not going to get clean unless they want to be clean. They're not going to stay clean unless they want to. They do need the tools. But you can't do it for somebody. Like, you know, I've been 23 years. I've helped a lot of people, started some programs. We got some houses. You know, my story's out there. So, a couple of things is we never want to enable dysfunctional behaviors in people because my dad would do that. I would trick, you know, I tricked him into doing so many things and he would do so many things. And a lot of loved ones do things for their loved ones. And they, like, literally help them stay more addicted, get more trapped in their, you know, their addictions. So don't ever, you know, don't ever enable dysfunctional behaviors with addict. So, you know, don't make, you can't work harder than addict than the addict should be.

So you can have all the great plans for somebody. but if they don't want to do the work, then you can't save them. What do you think is the worst moment you faced an addiction? Good question. The worst moment. That's a good question. Wow. I never thought of that.

I don't know how to answer that, but I think the worst things, some of the worst things that have happened, like causing other people to get addicted to the drugs, like because of my influence. That's very bad. You know, like when I was out there, when you're addicted, you want other people to be addicted. You want to do drugs with other people. That's very bad.

The girl I was dating when I went to jail for the four months and never came out, she became a prostitute in the streets of New York, New Jersey and got AIDS. That's very bad. Not to say I did that, but that happened as a result. And people have died, literally died because of the drugs. I did, I bought, and the things we were doing together, our best friends, Anthony Anderson, Tim Clem, Eric Schmeltz, Bruce Clark, Melissa Davidson. I mean, there's so many. It's so sad that we were all, because of all of us together. Like, you know, at some point, we all went our different ways and people, I mean, people started to die, you know, while we were in high school, but they still, every once in a while, somebody still, I've done many of the funerals of my best friends. How do you make amends for those?

For all those things. Yeah. Good. That's another good question. Well, when I do bad things, you know, there's been some things in my life that, you know, are not great even. And, you know, last, you know, years ago. So I try to reconcile as many relationships as possible with people, like literally tell them sorry. I paid all my restitutions, you know.

You can only, you know, most people, it feels like we'll receive that. I mean, and it's really show them with your lifestyle changes, your behavior changes. That's the best thing you could do. But if there's, I've apologized, literally had hard conversations. Most of them go well. Some of them don't. Yeah. Not easy, though.

What's the business you got into when you left the church? So, again, no salary, no, you know, like just out there. I was going to be a financial advisor. So before I left the church, my financial advisor was like, hey, you would be great at this. And he was like, he's like, I want to retire one day for a big firm. He's like, you should do this. So then I was like, okay, you know what?

I think I could do this too, you know, become a stockbroker and financial advisor. So that's when I went back to all those jails and the police stations to get all my paperwork and start that process. And so I started to go down that road, like to be a financial advisor. So insurance, investments and so forth. And I did some of that for a while. But at the same time, the reason the church was, one of the reasons was we did a lot of marketing. So people just started to hit me up about marketing.

I'm like I started a marketing company. So at the same time, I was kind of trying to figure out the financial thing, which a roadblock did eventually come up because of the arrest. They're like, you know, thank you for all this paperwork. But, you know, it was 18 years. They were like, we need at least you will be 20 years away from your arrest for us to consider. So it's like, okay. But then after 20 years, I'm doing way better than, and when you work for those firms, you're like a slave in some ways to it.

So it just wasn't right for me because the marketing company ends up doing really well. We have 150 clients and we have 25 people who work for us. We're serving clients. I'm getting a new client on Monday in the UK. I mean, so we serve a lot of, most of our clients are U.S. base, but we've had a couple international. So it's called exponential media. We do social media marketing, online ads.

We have five web design designers. We build websites. We, you know, Google ads, Facebook ads. We work with small, small businesses to $100 million companies and everything between. Are you worried that sharing your experiences about your past could affect your business or the how people do you? It's all over the internet. You could Google my name and this story is there. I literally told the same story all the time.

Like, you know, and there was, you know, like I would, yeah, I would, yes, I would, it comes out. And it's all over the internet. Yeah, Google it. What would you say to people that are afraid to share their story because they're successful now but have a past that might not be publicized because the internet wasn't what it is now, but they do have a past. Great point. You know, great. And some of my friends won't.

They will not, like, let their past out. I honestly love telling my story. And it actually, like, I tell it to people I meet, like, in a, you know, a first call with, like, a potential. potential new client. Like sometimes that they like see the human side of me and it sells me, right? And I tell them homeless to Harvard and I was arrested 18 times. I tell all my client. Like they all, I tell them. Again, I make videos about it. I used to make more like it's recovery month this month. And I, you know, I used to would make some videos in recovery month. And literally I was going to send you one, because it was in my stories recently. But I, yeah, I would tell the whole story. And again,

if you Google my name, it's on my website. It's out there. It's, I used to. I used to. to tell it almost every Sunday. So there's lots of sermons out there with parts of it in it. I've never sat down and told all like this. And some, I didn't tell, I've never told all of it like this, you know, but. So what would you say to those people?

I mean, there, what I would say is, it's actually very freeing to tell the truth about your story and not hide things. Because that you, so your secrets keep you sick. As we, as, you know, one in recovery knows. So there could be a part of their life or part of their heart that is, that is like in prison, essentially, because they won't tell their story.

And they're missing out on the opportunity to help so many people that need to hear their story, which my story has been used in good ways, even though it came out of a lot of pain. It's helped me find purpose. And other people literally have had their life changed by they went to Teen Challenge or they went to Bible College because I encouraged them to based on my story, based on people who were, you know, coming out of addiction and recovery. So I would say tell it, it sets you free. The truth sets you free.

And so I'm a big proponent about it. And it actually might help them in their business too. Like I literally helps humanize me and people relate to that. And most people have a story. Yeah. And they do. And once they hear that and that separates me from like the corporate snobby type of people when I get on calls with people.

And they like that realness. And I think the people that are meant to be in your life, will accept you for who you are. Right. And anyone that doesn't accept you isn't really meant to be in your life. You nailed that right. I don't, yeah.

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Actual prices may vary. Limited time offer. I'm the older you get, the more you want the right people in your life that are like that. If someone could take one lesson away from your story today, what would that be? What would you want that to be? Yeah. My main theme is a setback is just a setup for a comeback. No matter how old you are, what stage or age you are in life, no matter how high you go or how low you go, you know, every setback, it literally positions.

you for the better comeback. You know, I've had setbacks in my life, drugs, some things in the church, and it's always pushed me further and better. And I'm happier and more content in this day than I've ever been in my life. And as a result of just learning for my setbacks and allowing that to help me, you know, come back stronger. Awesome. Well, Jess, I appreciate you coming on the show today.

Yeah, thanks, dude, for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for being vulnerable and sharing your story. No problem. Awesome. And thanks for the gift. Yeah, no problem. Can we wait to hang that up in the office?

Awesome. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me. Super excited. I love what you're doing. You have some big things coming. Thank you, bro. Thank you, bro.