Locked In with Ian Bick - Banky Pound Reveals the Brutal Reality of Surviving 33 Years Inside Prison

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Banky Pound shares his story of being sentenced to 33 years in prison for armed robbery, the realities of life behind bars, and how he turned his life around after release. Now, he inspires others by sharing his experiences and lessons on YouTube. #BankyPound #PrisonSurvival #LifeBehindBars #33YearsInPrison #BrutalReality #InsidePrison #PrisonReform #truecrimestories Connect with Banky Pound: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFyxAyqXIslHwQJwSD9t7MA Thank you to our sponsors this week: Orgain: For 30% off your order, head to https://Orgain.com/IANBICK and use code IANBICK.   Rocket Money: Visit https://rocketmoney.com/lockedin to cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Buy Merch: https://www.ianbick.com/shop Use code lockedin at checkout to get 20% off your order Timestamps: 00:00:00 Banky Pound's Most Requested Interview 00:07:17 The Impact of a Hardworking Mother 00:15:06 The Impact of Authoritarian Parenting on Youth Rebellion 00:22:08 The Serious Consequences of Crime for Teenagers 00:29:32 The Harsh Realities of Prison Life 00:37:26 False Convictions and Plea Bargain Dilemmas 00:45:03 Surviving Violence in Prison 00:52:55 Prison Survival Mindset 01:00:32 A Dangerous Confrontation Inside Prison 01:07:26 Lessons Learned in Prison: Trust and Violence 01:15:00 Ingenious Contraband Hiding Techniques 01:21:50 Wrongful Accusation and Strip Search 01:29:34 The Harsh Reality of Prison Life 01:36:59 The Importance of Family During Incarceration 01:44:44 Making Choices and Accepting Consequences 01:52:12 The Importance of Choosing the Right Guidance 01:59:19 Logged In with Big Man Salute Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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if you've shopped with us before. Banky Pound, welcome to Lockton. The most requested interview in Lockton history, man. That's crazy. Shout out the TB Nation, man. You know, we've been sparring for a couple of years, man. So it's about time, man. But, yeah, I knew it would happen.

Yeah, you were actually on my, so, like, when I first started, there was, like, the OG YouTubers of prison people. Yeah. So, like, you were on my list. Like, you was, like, you, Jay Williams, there was a couple other people. Right.

Larry Lawton, like the OG that came before me that we all got to respect because you guys paved the way, you know? Right, right, right. So you're on my list, and we've been going back and forth, glad we can make it happen. But literally every week, man, people reach out to me. Banky pound. I had this one girl on TikTok like was like,

you have to get them. I was like, it's booked, right? She was like, okay, I apologize. Yeah, when I announced it on my channel, man, They was excited too, man. I was like, look, man, I'm going to lockdown with Ian Big. They was like, when, when you're going, where are you going? I say, I got to go first.

When I go, I'm going to let you all know. So they was like, yeah, they was real excited about it, man. You're doing good work over here, man. And, yeah, for sure. Thank you, man. I want you to plug in your stuff at the top of this episode. You know, your channels, the boxing thing you have going on to all that. Absolutely, man.

Well, you know, my YouTube is Bankie Pound. I think the URL is Banky Pound 1932. That's my biggest platform. I also am on Instagram. I post videos every day, man. That is my grind, you know, that prison grind. I post seven days a week at 6 o'clock p.m. Eastern Standard Time. You'll have a new video.

If you don't have one, something going on. I go live every morning with a show I call Carl the Morning Mud where we drink coffee and just tap in for the day, try to get good energy. Normally I go live at night after my video premieres at 6. go in and chop it up with them so we're in the day with some good energy um you know i'm just getting with ticot not really too familiar with it but i'm on facebook banky pound for pound on facebook and you know um we're moving around man we're gonna try to get the moving around in 2025 and hit some more

platforms like yours you know i already previously done you know no jumper shout out to adam um or vlad tv shout out to vlad you know so we're going to try to circle the wagon this year and you know, put this thing out there a little more, man. Yeah, definitely, man. Yeah. That's so cool. You got to get on TikTok. People love the prison stories.

I know, man. Hopefully they don't ban it. Right, right, right. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I'm definitely trying to get into TikTok. Ironically, I posted a video on TikTok when I first was hearing about TikTok. It might be like my third or four video I posted on there, just randomly coming from the beach working out, man. I seen an older, an elderly woman cutting her grass.

And I just came from working out on the beach. And I said, I'm going to go ask her, do she want me to cut her grass? Because I was already sweating or whatnot. And they said, I bet you want. I said, I do. I'm going to go ask her. They said, you're going to do it for real? I said, yeah, if she let me.

So they took the camera and they was filming me. And I just went in the answer, do she want a grass cut? And she was like, no, no, I do this for exercise. Come to find out, she was 91 years old. She's cutting the grass with an electric lawnmower. And I just felt so bad for it. but she just sat there and she conversated with me. And she was like she do it for exercise or grandkids don't want to help her.

So she do it herself. It keeps her young. And I just thought she was so vibrant and cool. And I just told her, I said, well, I'm right around the street. Anytime you need me to do it, I do it and I stress too. I do it for free. You ain't you ain't pay me. She was like, cool.

That got like almost a million views, like 750,000 views. It was like my fourth. But I didn't keep up with it because, like I say I'm new. I was just focusing in on the YouTube, getting this story out. trying to let these youngers know, man, that, you know, prison going to mess your life up, man. It ain't going to be nothing out here that's going to be worth it in the end if you get behind them walls. So that's my main goal, man, to just re-educate these youngers and let them know that it ain't going to be what you think it is, man. You know, and it's a hard road to deal with, man, and I just want them to know that.

Where did you grow up? Where are you from? I'm from D.C., man, but I grew up in D.C. and, Virginia, you know, and ironically, I was sent from one to the other to stay out of trouble, and I ended up in the worst trouble ever. But, yeah, originally from D.C., man, but I had a lot of roots in Virginia. So if I'm in one during the school season, I'm in the other one during the summertime. So, you know, I was back and forth, but, you know, D.C. is my home, man.

Who'd you grow up with? I grew up with my family, my mom, you know, my pops, he passed away when I was probably about 11 or 12. Didn't really know him that much before he passed away. He was staying in New York. So I never really like seen him like that. And then next thing you know, I already had passed away. So, you know, at that time, you know, I'm young.

I don't really know what to feel because I don't really like know him like that. But for the most part of, you know, all my life, my mom, been my mom and my dad. but I have to say my uncle, you know what I'm saying, her oldest brother, he jibed instilled in me, you know, manhood and what to do and what to expect. And, you know what I'm saying? I more or less got my demeanor and my personality from him. And he just was a, you know, a hard joker, you know, and he instilled that in me and my brother. What did your mom do for work? My mom worked at a plant, man.

And she worked at a plant and she ended up moving to Virginia because she got this job in the plant. And she ended up working in that plant for like 30 plus years before she retired in there. But it was a good job. It paid good. You know what I'm saying? She even tried to get me a job in there to keep me, you know what I'm saying, you know, out of the way. And I ended up getting a job there, man. But true for the matter is, I was just, you know, I was so lost that working won't even.

You know what I'm saying? I can go out there and do what I was doing and make the money that I was making. And it was a good job. You know, you're talking about a young kid in his teens and I could make, you know, $20-something dollars an hour. And this in the 80s. So, but, you know, I was just too caught up in fast money at that time. You know what I'm saying?

How was a relationship with you and your brother growing up? Man, me and my brother, cool. We cool in the game right now. That's my road dog. That's my man. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, I got a brother and two sisters. and I always been close with them.

I'm the second oldest. My sister is the oldest. Then it's me. Then it's my brother and then it's my baby sister. But my siblings are my siblings. I'm cool with, you know what I'm saying? I'm the only one that got in trouble. You know what I'm saying?

They college graduates and, you know, business owners and whatnot. But, you know. Did your parents have any run-ins with the law at all? My mother, man, listen, man, my mother, this is a crazy part, man. My mother, in my entire life, and I'm not saying this because it's my mom. My mother is just facts. In my entire life, I never seen my mother take a drink. I never seen my mother smoke a cigarette.

I never seen my mother do drugs. My mother, all I always saw was my mind working, man. My mind worked, worked and worked. And she took care of us, man. All four of us, whatever we wanted. We all got a car at 16, you know what I'm saying? We all had whatever it was that came out. We all had the best of clothes, you know.

Always had the games, whatever they came out. It was like when, where was it, or Nintendo and all of that stuff came up. We were the first ones on the block. They have it. You know what I'm saying? Because my mom worked hard, man, and I always respect her for that.

You know, and I think being in prison as long as I was and my mom worked ethic, I think that, you know, is on me. Because they always say, you know, if you go look, they'll say, I'm the hardest working dude than you two. Because I post not just every day, but I post stories every day.

You know what I'm saying? And I've been doing that for, four plus years, seven days a week. And normally they're going to see me two to three times a day because I'm going to be live in the morning, six o'clock video, then maybe live at night. So you're talking about seven days a week, no breaks because the streets ain't taking no breaks, you know?

So I can't take no breaks. And in prison, as you should know, you can't take no breaks. So when I got into it, I say if I'm in it, I'm just going to go hard in it, you know, and that's the way I've been the whole time I've been doing it. Yeah, a lot of people don't know. that grind aspect of it, you know? Like, it's hard.

It's very hard. I do five, you know, episodes a week that I edit, produce, do all those myself. And then, you know, the shorts and then the lives you have to add in here and there. Just everything, man. It's a lot. It's a lot. And responding and dealing with guests and, you know, it's. And I, I be telling them that.

I be like, listen, man, because, you know, I'm human. You know, sometimes when my videos don't do without what I'm used to, I'm doing. I'd be like, man, do y'all know what? I go through to be on here every day. It's like literally 80% of my day, daily. You know what I'm saying? I got grandkids. I got kids.

You know what I'm saying? I got, but I do it because it's what I'm used to doing. And I know that it's effective. I know it's effective because I get the response, the letters, the people telling me, man, this changed my life, man. You saved my life. That stuff affects me. It affects me in a big way, dog.

And it's like the gas in my car. know what I'm saying, when they tell me that I could, I could have, be in a mood because the video ain't do what I thought it should do or whatever, or I think people ain't listening. And I can get one letter and do it and say, man, you, you know, you saved my life. And that are just, I'll be right back on 10. I like, well, I got to go harder. You know what I'm saying? So that's why I do it because in my videos, man, my main thing is I try to talk to people

the way I felt, I feel like if people would have talked to me when I was young and out of control, that I would have listened to. You know what I'm saying? So what I try to do is paint the picture of, you know, what if this is what your life going to be like. If you complaining out here, you ain't got no job, you can't do this,

this is what you're going to trade, what you got in for. And I show them that because I'm not saying, at all, man. There's nothing in prison that you can, there's no scenario, there's no nothing that you can't tell me that I haven't seen experience or been involved in, you know, 12,000 65 plus consecutive days, man, first time in. So I've seen it all.

And the only reason I'm here talking to you today is it ain't just because I'm the baddest joke on the planet. It's just because I stood on mine and God stood with me. And they won't my destiny to die in prison. Because I don't face death probably more times than a human should, you know, but I prevailed. And once I got out here and this was presented to me to be able to help somebody, it wasn't even my plans.

But once it was presented to me and I did it and I felt how it made me feel, I was like, this is what I got to do. You know what I'm saying? And I ain't want to just be remembered. for a joga did doing 30-something years in prison? What is that? What is that? You know, so I want to be remembered for something, man,

and helping people. And if I can stop one dude from going to prison, I'm good with that, you know what I'm saying? But when you get one and then some more and then some more and then some more, it just make you feel good, man, you know? So I'm locked down. No pun intended with this. I'm locked down with it, man.

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So, you know, you grow up in a pretty decent family. You know, you had those advantages with a caring mom, loving, you know, siblings and a stable home in that sense. Where does it go wrong? It goes wrong when this is my take on it, you know, and trust me, I've had enough time to analyze it and reanalyze it. over and over again. And this is why I preach the way I do. It goes wrong because I think when you're growing up, especially if you're growing up like I did in a one-parent home

where the mom got to be the mom, the dad, the dictator, the healer, the provider, everything. Stressed out, just like what we do, is you get stressed. So I grew up in the era of your mom will tell you do some and you say why, and they said, because I said so. And that's what you got to take. And I think that, you know, work for a certain period of time, but I think we've outgrown that.

Evolution has took us beyond that. I think kids take that as dictatorship. And in dictatorship, what do we get? We get rebellion. You understand? And I think we get dictated to at home because parents are so caught up in what they got to do, what they need to do, trying to provide for us, trying to do this, do that.

And they don't have the patience that sit there and explain everything. They just dictate. And when you get dictation at home and you go out in the street and you get conversation opposed to dictation, you're more receptive to the conversation that's in the streets. So you're not listening to what's being told at you at home because you feel like you're being dictated to. But when you go out in the streets amongst your peers and they don't know no more than you know, you're listening to them.

Oh, man, we can go do this, man. We can get a lick. Or we can go, you know what I'm saying? You listening to it. Now, we're grown there looking back at it It's straight-term foolery But we don't know that So that sounds more glamorous to us

That sounds more intriguing to us And we're able to conversate Instead of being told what to do Oh no, but what if this is? Oh, no, what that'll happen? Woo-boo-boo. And you go through all of that, man And I think that's where it went wrong for me, man, you know.

It didn't go wrong for a minute Because I was always in high school, though And hadn't been in nothing, man. I'm in this boxing thing. I love it with a passion. I'm playing football. I'm good in football. Even has scholarship offers and everything,

but I'm trying to go with this boxing thing because the same thing being greedy, thinking about the fast money. You know, four years in college, man. I can do this and turn pro and get, you know, so just, you know, being greedy, you know, and that's usually the downfall of all of us. And then I had this dude to move down to D.C. from New York.

And man, he was a cool dude, man. We had a couple of classes together, and we got to hanging out. And that's where it went, man. We was out in Georgetown one night. We used to go out there on the weekends, you know, trying to chase girls and do our thing or whatnot. And we used to have to get to money. And we had no money. We didn't spend all our money, whatever.

And I was like, we didn't have no money even catch the metro to get back. And just like that, he was like, man, shoot, man, we had a ride. Rob somebody. I'm like, what if I robbed somebody? You know, he's from New York. I'm from D.C., but he's day a little faster, I guess, in that aspect. Because I don't, I ain't know nothing about it. Just, you heard dudes ride, but I'm like, nah,

he was like, I said, man, I'm going to rob somebody. Man, you're tripping. I said, we ain't, I said, we don't got no gun. He said, man, you don't need no gun. I'm looking at him. He said, man, listen, all you got to do is act like you got a gun. Don't nobody want to get shot? Act like you got a gun. And I'm I'm thinking in my mind, man, you won't get us killed.

You know what I'm saying? He was like, I'm telling you man I see you didn't did it before He was like, yeah So I'm like, nah I ain't trying to do that Joe And he was like, watch this, watch this So we're walking around

We're walking around He found somebody He'd go do it And they give him the money He made the lick He pulled back, we run, we get away And then he break Brad with me You know

So we go home And then the next day We're talking about it And everything I'm like, I told you man It's easy woo woo woo That was it You know what I'm saying

And we're going up there man And we're robbing jokers And we're starting to do it and then we're doing it more often. And then we graduated. We started robbing. We won't rob the pimps because they got pimps out there and they got big money. So we're trying to rob the pimps.

This is how insane we was. Man, these jokers would kill you. If they, you know what I'm saying? If they catch you run, they're going to kill you. But we're not feeling no fear because we're so young and naive. We're thinking that we really, you know what I'm saying? We're doing something. And, um, man, then we started, bro, then we started messing with the, the prostitutes, man.

We started tricking them, you know, we started telling them, well, yeah, we on, we on date with you and they, and we go in there with them and do what we do, and then we take their money. You know what I'm saying? And, yeah, man, we was, we was just straight tripping when I looked back. And then one time we did it with the prostitutes, and we took the money back, and the money that they had, and we try to leave out the hotel, but we're so green and we don't know. They got pimps and stuff waiting at the, you know,

at the inches in case something like this happened, but we don't know this. We think, oh, we got them. Man, we come up out of the air, and, man, before we could get two, three, four, five steps, man, they start running towards us. And we're like, they're coming in. And we take all running, and they're busing.

You know what I'm saying? They shooting at us. So, man, it was like my heart was pounding so fast. And, man, we just ran and we got away. And next thing you know, man, it was like, we waited a while, and we went back up there, and there was like a prostitutes, a lot of prostitutes used to see us up there. And, you know, because we was young, we stuck out. And there's one that used to speak to us all the time.

It used to tell us we too young to be out there and everything. She caught us when we was coming out there. And she was like, hey, come here, come here, come, come, get me. So we go down there thinking she's going to be talking her talk again. And she was like, y'all better get out here. Say, why is it? Oh, they're looking for y'all. So looking for us for us?

They're looking for y'all. They didn't get y'all description and everything. They're looking for y'all. So they had a beam on us, and they was looking for us. Man, we turned around and we left. And, yeah, we ain't go up there no more, but we ended up going other places, and he ended up getting towed off one time.

The police got behind us, and I got away, and they caught him. And they took him in or whatever. He ain't tell on me or nothing, you know what I'm saying? I got away. got free, and they took him back to his parents, and his mom was married to another guy. He was a professional body builder, too.

I'm talking about he was, he ain't never like him anyway. He's the only boys, like six girls in the mom. And they sent him back to New York, man. I never saw him again, you know what I'm saying? So, John, if you out there somewhere, man, how old at your boy? Never saw him again, man. And, yeah, man, and I kept on doing it after that, because I knew how now, you know,

quick lick for money and um when I came down to Virginia I already had that in me now it was in me you know what I'm saying so now I'm down here in Virginia I'm like oh I know I to get some money then I'm thinking they're slower they're green I'm big you know what I'm saying and um nah it ain't work out that way you know but um yeah that's what it was though it was just lack of it ain't that I didn't know what I was doing but it's the same thing to this day this is one of my the main messages that I tell people today. A lot of people know what they're doing is wrong. If you're grown, you know.

If you're a teenager, you know what you're doing is wrong. What's missing is you don't know the consequences. You don't know how much time you can get for what you're doing. You don't know what you're going to go through when you get that time. This is the information that I try to provide to them to give them the option. Like, okay, you know you're doing this. This can happen. So you know.

No. So you can't say you never knew. You understand? And I don't believe that nobody who really knows in detail what can happen to you, what will happen to you, will continue down that path. You know what I'm saying? See, I don't know what it's like in Connecticut, but I know in Virginia you can point a gun at somebody and say, give me your money, right? And they give you the money. You never touch them, never heard them or nothing. And you just walk away. But you scared them in and again, life. That's life. And I don't think young kids know that. You can't. tell me a 16, 17, 18-year-old kid, you tell him, man, you know you ain't got to shoot nobody. If you point that gun at somebody and take something from him, you know you can get life, right? Life. You can't tell a kid there, and he'd go, man, if you had told me that and said, I would have buried the gun. I wouldn't even touch the gun. But I didn't know. You know what I'm saying?

That's life, my dude. And you ain't got to do nothing to nobody. You could just, literally, that's just like scaring somebody out of some money. So who knows this as a child, as a young adolescent? or a young teenager did, if I don't touch them, if I don't shoot them, if I don't hurt them, I could get life, yes, you can get life. You know what I'm saying?

So these are the things I'm trying to make them aware of, man. It's not a game, man. And I'm going to tell you right now, Virginia will bury you and they will throw more dirt on you when you already bury. I know dudes in Virginia right now doing 50 plus. They only have a murder charge. You know what I'm saying? Don't have a charge against a child.

Don't have a rape charge. He's doing life and been down 50 plus, 40 plus. You see what I'm saying? So I know what it is. I'm blessed to be out here. I'm blessed. I did 33. First time in.

First time in trouble. I'm blessed, man. And I got to bless some other people and try to help them not go in. Because they're not playing. They had the lowest parole rate in the country for over 20-some years. 2% 2% was making pro roll

so you get life and you get 50 or 60 70 years man you you stuck NBA super stuck so you know I just want these youngers to know what type of game

they're getting involved in you know you want to play you in the games you want to rob you want to carjack you want to shoot the pistol when somebody step on your shoe all right this is what's going to happen to you

If you're ready for that, then so be it. But I don't think you ready because it ain't nobody ready for what prison got for you. Because it's not made for humans. It's literally not made for humans. We're not made to be caged up, man. We're not.

And, yeah, it'll suck the life out of you, dog. It will suck the life straight out of you, man. And, yeah, man, I, you know, they asked me since I started doing YouTube, man. And it's like, why you smile so much, man? You did all that time. I said, because I ain't in there no more. You know what I'm saying?

I ain't in there no more. I ain't got to wake up every day worrying about if I got to kill or be killed. I ain't got to wake up every day. One of them going to fight the police. And wonder if I'm going to get what I'm supposed to have. I ain't got to wake up for it and go through that no more. So, yeah, I'm a smile. I'm a little day.

Ain't what I've been through. I already got through it. I ain't trying to go through it no more. Was your mom aware you were starting to go down that path? Nah, but she, you know how you got that motherly instinct? She had it, man. She had it. She literally, I had left and got my own place.

You know, first time my own place. My mom literally used to call me at like two, three in the morning and wake me up and be like, you're at home? I said, yeah. I said, what's going on? I said, what are you doing? What are you doing, bank? I said, I ain't doing nothing. She said, you doing something.

And you better stop it. I'm telling you, I got that feeling. You are doing something. And you better stop. You better stop. And he used to freak me out. Because I'm like, somebody has tears? But then nobody knows nothing because I'm moving it.

You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, huh? But I said, my ain't doing nothing. I ain't doing it. She's just you doing something. I'm telling you, you better stop. And that's, I never forget it. You know, and yeah, she knew, but she didn't know.

But she had that motherly, you know what I'm saying? she knew, man, because she knew her child. And it used to freak me out, man. And, yeah, I never forgot that, especially after I was locked up. And, you know, you know, you could hurry ringing in your head. You know, that my mom used to say, you know, you better stop doing what you're doing, bang.

You know what I'm saying? So you'll get warnings all the time. You'll get signs all the time. It's just a matter of you take heed to them. You know what I'm saying? And I didn't, you know. And that's why, you know, I'd be trying to let these youngers know, man, you better listen. Because when you get in there, you know, can't nobody save you.

Not your lawyer, not your mom or not your daddy, your grandpa. And I think that's where we get a lot of it twisted too. When you're out of lesson, every trouble did you get in, more or less your mom, whoever your caretaker is, get you out of. You get in trouble in school, your mom come pick you up, your dad, whoever. You go to Jury, you know, they go to court with you. And I think that's where it get twisted at Because I think once you get over 18

They still kind of young You still depending on your parents Or whoever your careticket is And you got it in your mind Anything I get in, they're going to get me out of After 18, it don't work that way It don't work that way And even sometime before 18

It don't work that way Because you're going to get yourself into something They can't get you out of And when I talk at high schools because I speak at high schools, colleges, juvenile detention centers. I go back in the jails and I talk. And especially when I'm in the high schools and the juvenile, the junior high schools and the colleges,

I let them know, your mom and daddy ain't going to be able to get you out of everything. Once you get a certain age or once you cross a line that can't be uncrossed, they're not going to be able to save you. No matter how much money you think they got, how much influence you think they got, how much they love you, how much they're not going to be able to save you. you, man, and not even your lawyer. Once you get convicted, one of the hardest things to do is to get out of that situation,

even if you're innocent. I don't do as they did the same amount of time I did that ain't even do their crime, I do. And I know this for a fact, you know. So it's just, it's one of the hardest things to flip because they don't want to admit that they're wrong once they have convicted you because they open themselves up to so many lawsuits, so many, you know, judgments, so many, you know, judgments, so many, you know, so much ridicule that they're going to fight tooth and nail to keep you where you at because they're going to stand on that they convicted you by jury of your peers.

Even if it was manipulated, even if it was, you know, tampered with it. They're going to stand on that. And you're going to have to sit there and you're going to have to wear that. And the thing about doing time is people don't realize is one of the worst things or the most asinine things people say when they locked up, I got, I ain't got but two years or I ain't got but seven. Who told you you're going to live that long? That's one of the most

Asinine things we say when we like the Oh, I ain't got about eight years, you got life. But you know by the guarantee you're going to live no eight years? I know dudes who went to prison with me. I was in the jail. I left the jail and went to receiving, left the receiving and went to the wall. I know dudes that was in the jail with me,

went to receiving with me, went to the wall with me, and got killed. I know dudes who was getting out the day before they get out got killed. I know dudes that came in the first day got killed. It's no rhyme or reason in there. Anything can happen at any time. You go into prison, there's no one on the planet going to tell you when you're coming out

or if you're coming out. Regardless of what your sentence say, regardless of what you got on paper, there's no one can guarantee you coming out. That's the trap that people don't understand. man dudes in there got forever in a day dudes in there got a little bit of time dudes in there so irritated frustrated suppressed depressed they can kirk out at any time and you could be the closest thing to them and that's it for you and you got oh i got four years okay well you ain't gonna see it you're not gonna see it man so that's the dangers of prison man and dudes they don't talk about that stuff they try to lie to lie to live Oh, well, I made it through. It won't nothing. Yeah, all.

Okay, okay. Every time I see any, I don't care. No disrespect to nobody. Do what you do. Say what you say, whatever, whatever. You ain't going to tell me you did no, you know, five, ten, especially ten years of better, and you, and it won't nothing. Man, you're out of your mind.

You're out of your mind. You was away from everything you love and everybody you love, and it won't nothing. It won't nothing? Man, get out of here. We don't go through so much in a decade. in prison, man, it's like a lifetime of living. You go through so much on a year. A year.

So you got these people on here saying that, oh, well, I did five years. I ain't really had no problem. I did. Man, I did 12 years ago on nothing. Man, you lie, dog. And I look you in your face and say, you lie. You know what I'm saying? I would look you in your face and say, because can't nobody tell me nothing about prison.

You can tell me something about anything on this earth. You may feel like you authority over me in. Prison ain't one of them. of them. Prison ain't one of them. Unless you did 34 plus years, and you might can tell me a little something. You know what I'm saying? And I don't, I don't debate with dudes this not my equals, man. I teach them, you know, and I can teach you something about prison. I could teach you that it ain't the place that you want to be, but you can't teach me nothing about prison because I lived it. I've been there in prison, man, long than I ever been on the street prior and after. I've been

longer. If you could combine before I went to prison and after, I've been in prison longer than I ever been on the street. I'm 58 years old. My whole life has been in prison. You know what I'm saying? And that's my first time. And I'm lucky to be here. Tupac had

a line of one of his songs. I never forget. I always refer back to it. He said, they want to see us all in jail where only few of us are lead to tell. I'm one of the few. You know? And so I feel obligated to let do know, man. This ain't what you want to do, man. There ain't no amount of money you can get.

Ain't no amount of licks you can hit. It's just, it's nothing. They said, man, you wouldn't go back to prison for a million dollars. You, you take it. You wouldn't do a year. You take it. You take it. I've been broke all my life, man. You know what I'm saying? Being broke for a little longer opposed to going to do that now, bro, because I know what can happen. I can get killed the first day. I can get killed on the fifth, six, seven, three hundred and in, 11th. No, I don't want that type of life no more. I don't want it for me. I don't want it for nobody. So, you know, nah, I don't, I don't go back in there. If I go back and I want to be going back in there to speak and let dudes know that you can come out, man, and it ain't over. It ain't over.

If you can make it to the finish line, it ain't over, champ. So just hold on. But, um, nah, I wouldn't, you couldn't give me nothing. host of Lockton and I need to tell you all about what I just discovered. I was going over my bank statements the other day and I realized I was spending hundreds of dollars a month on subscriptions I barely even used. Sound familiar? It hit me like a ton of bricks. How much money was just slipping through my fingers every month. That's when I knew I needed rocket money. Let me tell you rocket money has been a total game changer for me. One subscription I hadn't touched in months gone. canceled it for me in minutes, no hassle, no awkward phone calls, and they even caught when one of

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Take back control of your finances with Rocket Money. You'll thank me later. Now let's get back into today's episode. Tell us about what happened when you got to Virginia that landed you in prison. Well, I was the same thing. Pulling leaks with the robbery join.

And I was with another dude. He was older than me. Been in trouble before. Well, that's neither here nor there. But, yeah. And he was already doing what I was doing. Never knew that at first. So then when I knew, then we're licking up

and we're pulling little licks and we go to do something one night and it goes south. And I leave. He stays. I heard gunshots. I run even faster. Later on, we'll come to find out, you know,

you know, somebody got shot and they lost their life. And it was me and him that was there. And they didn't catch us on the scene. So months later, they arrested two other people

for the charge. Had them. Was going to log them up, do whatever, whatever. We're young. I ain't say nothing. I'm definitely not going to say enough. I'm figuring in my mind. they ain't do it, they can't get convicted. Just steal my young, naive mind.

I know different now. But that's how I felt that they said, oh, they ain't even do it. So, you know, they ain't, we're convicted, and we could. Whatever got into him, I don't know. He can only tell you that, but I guess he got nervous after a while and he go turn himself in.

And he implicate me. And I guess he turned itself in being he was older than me, he's looking for a deal. And he got one. And he said, I was the ringleader. and he was with me and blah-de-blah-de-blah. So they come and get me, they let these guys go. And still young, stupid, I go in there.

I said, I don't know nothing. I don't know what he's talking about, da-da-da-da. So now they're looking at me like, I'm trying to play hard. Boom. I get convicted. He testified on me. I get 100, 100, 103, 106 years, something, 100 and something. 100 and something years.

I got robbery charges attack. to this. I don't know what they do everywhere else, but in Virginia, too, any robbery that even look or resembles this unsolved, they give you that too. So I got robbery charges. And at the time,

in Virginia, they had the three strike law coming up. So that meant that, you know, if you get convicted of three of the same type of crimes, which mine was a violent crime, you get convicted of three of them, then you fall under the no parole system. You can't get out.

Whatever time you got, that's what you got to do. So I got 100 and some years. So I got these robbery charges to face, there's new law coming out, my lawyer telling me, if you get convicted of one more of these, because I got convicted of the murder

and possessing use of a gun. If you get convicted, one of these charges, you know, you got the no parole zone. 100 years, you know, you ain't going to get out. So I'm like, well, what would I post to do? So he's like, you have to take a plea bargain when they're going to offer you a plea bargain.

If you take a plea bargain, they don't give you life sentences, but you won't fall under that new law. and you'll be eligible for parole in 12 years. So he said if you don't and you go to trial, if you get convicted of one, and I had to face like four or five, however many words. You get convicted of one, that's it.

So it felt like I was in a rock and a hard place, you know. So I took the plea bargain, and I ended up with two life sentences, 100 and some years. And I was under the understanding by him, you're going to go for parole in 12 years. You never been in trouble. you're the first time you're going to make it in 12 years, keeping your nose clean, everything will be okay.

Oh, which I know to be just impossible now. But at that time, it sounds good. You know, sound better than you would never get out. So, yeah, man, I took the deal. I never went up for parole until 18 years later. That's number one. I think he ended up getting disbarred or something laid on down the line.

Couldn't even find the Joker. The only thing was on my mind was Cape Fear. You know what I'm saying? If you know what that man, if you know, you know. But yeah, man, he tricked me, man. He tricked me real good. But I didn't know no better. You know what I'm saying?

And yeah, so that's what happened with that, man. I ended up doing 18 years before I ever went up for parole. I got turned down like 15 times before I actually made it. So, yeah, it was insane. It was just a bunch of lies. And then, coincidentally, when I was getting out, right around the time before I made parole, they found out that the law had been misappropriated

for over 20-some years. And it was trying to figure out a way to write this without being sued out the Wutazzi. So what they was doing was they was coming to people and saying, look, blah, da-da, because they were putting people under this law three strike law, if you got three charges like I had of the same caliber. When the law was written, the law was meant if you go to prison for a violent offense

and then you go get out, go back for another one, then three times in and out, they was applying it to people who had three or more charges of the same caliber. And they did that for over 20-some years. And then they had the audacity to go back to the people and say, well if you sign this there's no lawsuit or whatever we're going to make you as well pro row when in essence you are eligible anyway and been eligible so they now they're putting their bully on you again to make you think but once you've been in prison for 20-something years that sound good to you anything that got freedom attached to it sound good to you you know what I'm saying you're not

thinking about no sewing and getting no money you'd been locked up 25 years you're saying okay I can get out and that's what they was doing so when you look at my case, I took a plea bargain that I ain't even have to take. You see what I'm saying? So who knows how much time I would have got or how long I would have been in? But there's nothing I could do about it.

And like I say, it's just me and there, I'd just be, you know, preaching to the choir. They know what they did. And it's over with. I did it. I'm out and moving forward. It ain't nothing I could do looking back on saying. It ain't going to give me nothing.

You know, but they did that to a lot of people in Virginia. And you got people in there and there. And the ones who refused it. sign, it's still waiting to get out. They're going up for parole, but they're getting turned down every year. That's crazy to me. You know what I'm saying? Knowing that you don't have them people longer than you're supposed to out, hold on.

They gave people no parole for people who had three of the same charges, had not been in the penitentiary back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, the way the law was written. NVA. Right now they're dealing with that. So, you know, and I only been out, like I say, four years and some change. So this was acknowledged right before I got out. It seems pretty crazy that, you know, you would, that anyone would think that, okay,

you're getting 112 years. Parole is going to be just normal after 12 years, you know? You know what I'm saying? It's just wild. This is what the lawyers, see, see, and that's where, that's why I think us as a society, especially us doing nefarious activities, be, we be so green, man, and we'll look at anybody in authority or authority figure or authority uniform or lawyer. And we take that title and we run with it. If they say it is law.

Hey, man, this is what you got to do because this is. And look, you won't make parole in 12 years because you ain't did nothing. You did your first time. And, you know, all you got to do is going there and just don't get in no trouble, which is impossible. There's no way you can tell somebody to go to prison don't get in trouble. That's where trouble lives at. So all of these things is just being pushed at you and pushed at you,

and you under so much pressure you're accepting it because you're looking at him as a talking head as a mouthpiece and he's doing and he got your best interests or he's been paid. Man, it's a farce, man. You know, and if you, when you find out it's too late. There's nothing you can do about it. It's over, you know? So I know this now, but I didn't know that then, nor did my family.

Like I said, I'm the first one to get in this type of trouble, you know? I'm the first one, the only one. So not only was I uneducated in this, so was my family. You know, and then like I said, once you stuck, you stuck. And that's it. You know, it's just you on to, you know, the hunger games then. You know what I'm saying? Just trying to survive.

You were in the hunger games then, man. So. That's a great analogy. Yeah. It's like the hunger games. But there's nothing that you can mention that I haven't seen. man, I seen murder within my first two weeks, week and a half in prison. Murder.

I'm talking about vicious stab down till he can't move no more, less than away from me than you are right now. That close. And I had never seen that. And I'm in D.C. I didn't see him dudes get shot. I didn't see him dude's kid. I never seen nothing like that in that close of proximity. And it's just like just so vicious.

like yon, yon, yon, yon. And I'm like, man, and I'm on the phone, and I'm, like, frozen like a deer headlights, man. It's like my mom is talking to me, and I can't even hear. It's like a, it's like, oh, but she's like, what's going on? And I'm like, look, and I'm like, is this really happening? You know? And the dude just finished, and he just tucked the joan and just started walking up

and down the tier like it won't have nothing going on. And everybody was moving around like, it won't nothing going on. And I just see the dude just trying to get up. And he's just goggling in blood. And he can't even set up, man. As far as he could get it's like this. And he just dropped back down. And there's just blood was everywhere.

And he just stopped moving, man. And then there's just a puddle of blood that was around him. Just started getting bigger and bigger. And then sooner later, people walking up and down was tracking blood up and down the tear. And there's no police to be found. And I'm like, what? What is going on up in this joint? And there's no people still talking on the phone.

People still walking up and down the tear talking to each other. The joker who did it is still just pacing back and forth. He's got the knife chucked right in the front of his joint where you can see it. But ain't no police. Everybody in there know who did it. Ain't nobody saying nothing. And I'm like in my mind, man, I'm like, I'm freaking out. To be honest with you, I'm like, man, this is crazy.

you know, so that taught me a lot, man. It scared me, you know? Any joker he was in prison, he won't scare. That's another liar. Yeah, it scared the devil out of me, man, because I'm like, boom. So this is what they're doing up in this joint, you know? And, yeah, man, I said, man, I got, man,

man, I got to get me a knife. I got to get me a knife. I got at least have a fighting chance, you know what I'm saying? and to be flat out honest with you, man, I'm telling you, looking at the time that I had, just 12 years is what's locked in my brain. 12 years a long time, bro. I'm 20 years old, though.

12 years is a long time. So in my mind, I'm thinking 12 years of this, I'd survived 12 years of this. And I ain't know if I could, to be honest with you. I didn't know if I could, man. So at that point in time right there, I probably was like, really contemplating suicide.

That's why I understand why people do it. I was contemplating it, though, because I'm like, man, I can't live like this, dog. You know what I'm saying? And that was what I seen, that murder within a week and a half. But then after that, it was like, it won't nothing. We're back in normal operation the next day.

And then other dudes is getting hit up and chased and jumping over tears and throwing over. tears and I'm like, man, I can't live like this, though. That's one of the things that bothered me about prison is, like, if you're out in a public place in the free world and you see someone getting attacked, you're going to step in. In prison, everyone turns a blind eye. So you weren't mind your business when you committed that crime, you know, you weren't, you know, leaving that person alone that you were robin, but in prison, you want to abide by that?

Yes. So stupid. It's stupid, but those are the law or the jungle, man. And I tell people that, in the, in the jungle, man that laws is bite or be bitten, but mind your business. Because you get in somebody else's business, you will lose your life for somebody else's business, man. And that's crazy.

And you can't even speak about it. You can't even say nothing or you were in violation. You can't even go help the Joker if you wanted to help him. You can't go give him a tournick or are you all right? You can, hey, C.O., you can't do none of that. So you got to think in your mind that, if that's me, if that's me, I'm done. I'm done. So when you look at things like that, man, and you young and you're seeing this and you're like, man, yeah, bro, I was like, man, I was on the fence, man.

I was like, man, and I ain't know what to do. I did, and I was thinking about it. I said, man, I'm a kid myself, man. I ain't trying to go through this. I'm definitely, I can't, you know what I'm saying? And I remember talking to my mom, man. I was telling my own. I'm going to make this.

I'm telling you, they're crazy in here. I mean, like, they're like crazy in here. And she was like, you can make it through anything. You know, God got you, God got you. And I was like, man. And I can remember thinking for a couple of days in my mind, man, like, what to do, what to do, what to do, how I'm going to do this? How I'm going to do this?

I was locked it in my mind, man. I said, man, well, you know, I don't care. myself, man, I can't. I only thing I got the heart to kill myself, you know, and I was like, you know, I can't do that to my mom, you know what I'm saying? And I was like, man, if I lose my life, man, Joe going to have to kill me. He won't have to kill me. He just going to have to kill me and I'm going to make sure that I make it as difficult for him as possible. And if it's by chance that I go, he's coming with me. You know what I'm saying? And I just locked it in my mind. I set out on a mission to give me a knife. And it didn't take a lot. And it didn't take a lot.

It didn't take a lot of effort to get one, and I ended up getting one, and I never forget it, man. You know, the first knife I had, man, I'd say this several times because it's fat. I literally, the first knife I had had, a rubber grip on it with a compass on the back, and the jagged edges, it was a real knife,

like a ramble knife. And I got that knife for, like, $20-something. And I'm cashed money, and I'm like, yeah, Joker ain't going to. It can't do nothing to me. I don't care who you is. You know what I'm saying? Because it was so big that if I hit you with it, that's a rap.

So I'm like, I'm not really like sweating nothing. And I'm looking at it and I think to myself like, boom. And then it just clicked in my head, man. It's like, hey, man, I just got here. And I could get this. And what's out there? What they got? I'm new.

And I can get this that fast. And then I look at it again. I'm like, oh, if they got the same thing, what if somebody hit me with this? And I was like, 150, 155. You know what I'm saying? I've been boxing, so my weight always had been. I'm like, 155, Joe.

When I look at that, John, I said, somebody hit me with this. I'm through. So I just like, okay. So when somebody opposed me, when I think somebody's going to do something to me, I got to move fast. I got to get them before they get me. Because I can't take it.

So I got to give it. So that's just, I just had that in my mind, man. If you come fooling with me, if I think you got harm for me, I think you're trying to get me after what I've done seen and witnessed already, oh, now, I'm going to get you. I'm going to get you. And if I had to go to the electric cell or whatever the case may be, I'm willing to do that not to be on the business end of what I've seen that do.

I ain't want to be that guy. I ain't want to about calling my mom. telling my mom, oh, you know, some lies or something. Oh, he tried to jump on somebody in a knee and, nah, because they're going to lie. Because they're going to try to cover their self up. They're going to lie. So I just ain't want to be that dude, man. And then, yeah, I just locked it in my mind, man.

That's what I was going to do. And I kept that whole mentality, man, for my whole entire bit, man. And I won't never know dude. I want to make that clear neither. I won't never know dude did. started anything with anybody. I didn't. And I did some loss in it being locked up.

I'm not even holding you on that. But, you know, within gambling and stuff, because I had got it, I had, you know, laid on my back on the, I caught a mean gambling habit because it was the thing that kept me busy, you know. And it's just so much the goals with gambling, but I just kept doing it because it was an adrenaline rush.

My mind, I played poker every day for probably about, man, probably 20-something-plus years and tons of stuff. come with that you should know you know but I ain't never really like like really like beat nobody out or none or try to cheat a joke or some I don't bucked on money and stuff like that before but I was prepared to do whatever it comes with bucking but far as like just doing somebody like straight dirty where I feel like I deserve for them to kill me now I ain't ever do that so if you're trying to kill me then I have zero feelings for you I don't care what I do to you I it just because if you show me

Did you have the ability to try to hurt me? Man, I just detach. I don't even look at you as a human. You know what I'm saying? I just don't. And I realize that after, you know, within seven, eight, ten years of my bit, man, when somebody trying to hurt me and I think it always snapped in my head about what I seen. So I feel like I always see myself in that position, like the actual dude is dying,

it's goggling in blood. And I just never wanted to be there. So if I think you're trying to hurt me, it's just like I don't even look at you as human no more. Once you showed me that you're trying to hurt me or they said, man, oh, says, says, Plotin on your man, he said, he's going to get you, man, old man. Man, I don't even, I don't, you know what I'm saying, I just detach and I'm going to do whatever to make sure that you can't hurt me.

Did you ever have an experience like that where someone tried to hurt you? Oh, yeah, I have plenty, man. They probably want me dead and there now. You know, but yeah, yeah, I've had incidences like that. that man I've had to use the Bethlehem is what we call it you know all dudes from these we call it knife in there to Bethlehem.

Yeah I had to use the Bethlehem a few times you know what I'm saying? And to to my you know to my story I would say I never think I never thought whenever did I did I did I didn't have to do it at the time

never thought that And in retrospect, when it was over and looking back, yeah, probably didn't because only after people, I realized people wasn't about what they were saying. That's when you have to learn to discern from a threat and people just running their mouth. You see what I'm saying? But if you tell me you're going to kill me

and I don't take you serious and you are serious, then I lose my life. So if you tell me you, going to kill me, you got to mean that because I'm going to think you mean that. And I'm going to do everything I can to make sure you don't get that opportunity. So, the first time that I had to do it was that exact same scenario. You know what I'm saying? It was a real big dude.

Literally, literally, anybody who was there would say, one thing about any story I ever told, I got over 2,500 stories on. You ain't never heard nobody come up there and say, I'm lying. Never. You never will. And if they do, they line and they can't, you know what I'm saying, substantiate what they're saying. But he was literally the biggest dude on the camp.

But he didn't like me for whatever reason. Nothing did I ever did to him. And then, as you can see, I ain't no real big dude. He was big, you know, 6, 8, you know, almost 300. But he, at this time, I was within my little loss in there. I ran a storebox, so you know what the storebox is. And if you owe me some money, you're going to pay me. And if you don't pay me, I'm going to double it up on you and triple it up.

And then I'm going to do whatever I got to do to you and take everything you got. That's just how I ran my stove by. But you know this before you come borrow from me. So it was a dude that owed me, and he hadn't paid me on time. And I'm leaning on him. And it was a white guy. And he used to have the ability to get some weed. And I started leaning on them now to make them pay me weed.

Every time he got weed, because he had got it. the debt to me. Unbeknownst to me, big boy, Big Raymond was his name, was cool with him, and he took a dislike to me for leaning on him. So I don't know what type of situation they had going on at the time, but then I find out that he's actually illiterate and do reads his mail, writes his letters and do that type of stuff for him so he gonna make sure don't nobody harm do

so being that I'm leaning on dude he won't think he can lean on me but I ain't to be leaned on you know and I let him know to get out of my business as we was just talking you don't get enough people business and he was you know

adamant because he big and I had seen him already do you know bodily harm to people so I'm already on edge I ain't the one to be playing with So we had a homeboy that was, you know, my homeboy who did we had in common. My homeboy was cool with him.

I didn't really like him because he ain't like me. My homeboy kept wanting him to leave me alone. That didn't leave him alone. He quilled it for a minute. He just kept coming back, coming back saying little things. And it just came to a head one day, man. And he literally told me, man. He said, man, I'm going to end up killing you.

And I said, what? He said, you heard what I said, you're with the F I said. And my homeboy got in the way then. And that was it for me. It just triggered in my head. That's all I heard was he going to end up killing me. And he was literally in prison for murder. I mean, like a vicious one to my understanding allegedly, too.

Like got out on the freeway and walked up to somebody at the car and with a saw it off. So are you chipped? And you're going to tell me you're going to kill me. So I was like, and my home boy got in the way. And I was like, I don't worry about him. I ain't tripping off him. I'm gone. But in my mind.

I'm going to get this thing, and I'm going to tell you this now. So I just leave. He was like, yeah, you better leave. Yeah, I'm up, yeah, out of here. He stared running his mouth, and I'm like, man, this is over crazy. But already I got hives, man, because I already know I'm getting ready to hurt you bad, man. You know what I'm saying? And I go in my room, man.

I was nervous. I don't know what, man. I'm sitting there and I'm thinking about it, and I'm thinking about it. I'm literally thinking about it. I'm like, man, what's going to happen? What's going to happen to me if I do this? Because I'm thinking about taking them away from here. what's going to happen to me, man, what's going to happen to me?

And I had read, too, when you're young, I had read somewhere or seen somewhere on TV or a movie or something that if you pierced the heart with anything that a person would just collapse. I had read that, I've seen it somewhere. So in my mind, I got a big old Bethlehem, this is big. And I'm thinking that if I hit him in his heart, he's not even going to get a chance to fight back because he's so massive. I figured he's just going to collapse.

And it ain't worked that way. It never goes according to plan. It didn't work that way, right? So the whole scenario is I told this story on my joint, but it's like he was exercising. After he didn't threaten me and everything, like I'm nobody. Like, yeah, I said what I said,

and I meant what I said, and you ain't going to do nothing about it. So, man, I pull up on him, man, and I catch him in the back. and I'm right behind his heart. So my mind, I'm going to hit him. He's going to collapse. I'm going to peel over to the hot water zone.

I feel like I'm getting some water and just walk on to myself. And that's it. You know, that's what I'm thinking. That's what I saw. That's the scenario I saw. So when I hit him in the back, I hit him flushed. I hit him so hard.

My hand hit his back. It's like, so all of it went in. And he just, ah! And he turned around and I was in shock because he ain't dropped. So I charged him, trying to hit him again. He put his arm up and hit him in the arm and it was stuck in his arm. Pull it out. And he was like, what in the hell?

All right, all right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And now everybody looking in the whole block and I'm like, I told you don't eff with me, man. He's okay, okay, okay, okay. All right, you got me, you got me. And I was like, boom, man, man, man, my homeboy, the same one to try to stop the situation. He was like, everybody looking at you back.

everybody looking at you, Scott? That's it, man, leave him alone. Leave him alone. So I'm like, I cuffed it, John. I started looking around, and I started walking away. And, um, I ain't take but a couple steps, and I heard, skis-skis, and I turned around, and he then ran and snatched the coat off of somebody that was sitting at the car table and started wrapping his arm,

he said, I'm going to kill, man, I'm a kid, and I'm like, oh, you is? So I go to get him again, and he started going around the table, and then he just collapsed. You know what I'm saying? And I could have killed him. I was the overtop. And my home boy did again. He said, man, he said,

everybody looking at you, man, I'm standing over the top of him. I could have killed him. You know what I'm saying? I cuffed the joint. I walk away. You know, why didn't you kill him?

I think that reality checked in my head did. When he hollered to everybody looking at me and I started thinking, I'm going to get the lecture chill. You know, that's that popped in my head. Because I always knew in my mind did. Before I let somebody hurt me,

would kill him in prison and if I get it and I figured that I was going to get the lecture chair you know what I'm saying I just it's always stuck in my mind you end up getting the lecture chair you're going to get the lecture chair because I getting the lecture chair to me was the first option besides getting killed I won't let nobody kill me dog so I'm thinking I'm going to end up getting the lecture chair because in my mind I kept saying I'm going to kill somebody before I let them kill me so then they're going to turn around and my fate going to be the let you chair I used to think that for a long time, man. That was one of my biggest fears.

So I did not look around, and everybody was literally like looking at me. And the party got quiet. You know what it's like in a block when it's quiet. So even the COs will know that. And they're in the booth and they don't heard noise. They're like, what's going on? And they get up from their laziness and come look. So I started walking away, and I was going to my cell.

And I was in such shock and such rage. His cell was actually. my homeboy. We won't super cool, but he was actually my homeboy. I just looked at him standing in the door and just, I was so paranoid

I thought he was going to try to get me because that's his selling. So I said, you're with this? He was like, no, no. It closed my door, close my door. It got his door closed. And I was literally trying to, I'm like, if you come out here

and you act like you, if I think you're moving funny, he was like, I ain't got nothing to do with I ain't got nothing to do. I'm like, I'm telling you, though. That's how paranoid. I was kind of like in shop. And I go down to my cell

and I'm trying to put this Joan up And then I said, no, he won't come back and get me. So I put it on me. Then I had another dude that was cool. He literally came down there to me. He said, hey, man, give me the Jones. Let me get rid of it. I said, no, man.

He said, man, you better get rid of it. They're going to come in here, man. You better get rid of it. I know how to get rid of it. I said, nah, but that joke might come back. He said, man, that man might die, man. That man ain't coming back. Man, you better give me the Jones.

I said, nah, man. And I was getting irritated because I was just in shock and I was green. I hadn't made that move yet. This was first time. So I kept it, you know what I'm saying? And they had went to the booth and told the people, man, they fell out, and I heard of the self. He need medical.

They come in there. They take them out. Man, they was gone like 15, 20 minutes, man. They locked the block down. Came right back in there. Can't get me. Came right and got me. Someone snatched story.

They say that he came to and they was asking them to get help, man. You better tell us who did. You better tell us who did. They said, he said, And, um, but literally when I ended up, when they got me and they locked me up and they took me back in the hole at the time, like I said, I was running the stovebox. Um, one thing I learned, this was a hard lesson at the time, too. Um, if, if a lot of people owe you and you get in trouble, uh, they're going, they're going

tell on you, you know, they're going to, they're going to tell her. I've seen that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, because they don't want to pay that bill, you know, and I was literally, man, at this time I was early in my store-boss, you know, and I would come get you if you owe me money, but I was literally lenient with some people, man,

because I would literally be like, if you owe me your whole check at the end of the month and you can't, and you give me your whole check, and I know you ain't got nothing, you're going to have to come borrow again, if you bring me, say your whole check $35,000, you bring me a $35 dollar bag of commerce, and I know you ain't got enough. Man, I'll give you $10 back of your food to eat

just because I know you ain't got nothing. So most storebuses won't do on that That was one of my incentive For a dude to come mess with me So if you owe me I give But some of them jokers wrote notes on me And said yeah yeah he did it

And I know they did it Because they thought the dude was gonna die Because he was on life support for a minute And they came to my cell And they literally came and they was antagonizing me And you know harassed me Like tell us where the knife is I'm telling you right now

You, the man gave me to die You better help yourself and all this and all that I won't go on for none of that But he said you did it, we know you did it. He dug in his pocket and pulled out all these notes. What did I say? And he's showing him to my, oh, the dude up in 21 did it. Oh, yeah, the little short dude that did he did it. The dudes are selling

on me like, I don't know what. So I'm like, man. And that was like crazy to me. And I was like, man, did they write this or did people really write this? And I'm looking at it. And I'm like, yeah, so I know a lot of people owe you, they're going to tell on you. I learned that. And I also learned that if you do do violence in penitentiary and you do it, in broad daylight um people don't want you around because they scared if they get in the argument

with you now they know what you will do if they owe you some money they know what you will do if they if they have an altercation with you they know what you they will do so they'll write they'll write you out the block just because they don't want you around you understand so i learned that but at this time i ain't i won't know it i ain't in the penitentiary now when this happened I'm probably what? Man, I ain't even five years in. I'm around like year four or something, four and a half. So I was learning as I was going, you know.

And like you said, I think now I did 33 years. I didn't pick the Bethlehem up in year four, you know? Because that's how proud of what I was, though. It ain't like that's what I really wanted to do, but I had already seen it, man. and I'm being straight up. I was scared. So if I'm going out, you're going with me. You know what I'm saying?

It's just, and I just made that up in my mind. That's all I used to think. Man, I'm going to get in that shit because I'm going to kill the Joker. If he comes, I'm going to kill you if you come playing with me. And it just so happened, man. It came sooner than I thought it would come, man, because I didn't expect him to say that. I thought, you know, I won't scared to fight him.

Even though he was a big dude, I won't, I won't, I won't, I won't scare to fight them, but I just had already seen the prison ain't all about fighting. You know what I'm saying? I'm beating dudes up in the jail because they slept on me, didn't know I can box.

And I'm little. And they didn't know until it was knocked out. But you lead to jail and you get to prison, man, they're pushing that Bethlehem. You knock somebody out, man, and go play basketball or go outside. The next day somebody might run up behind you. You know what I'm saying?

So different rules, man, different places. I had to play by the rules, you know. Could you have done your whole time without violence, or do you think that wouldn't have been possible? That's impossible. That's impossible. You know, and I heard people say that, but that's impossible. I can not imagine a person doing 30 years, 33 years, let alone,

but 30 years in prison without violence. That's impossible. It's definitely impossible in Virginia. I can, you know, speak about other places. I've never been in other places. I've never been in the feds. I've never been in big cities like Cali and prison. It's impossible, man, because somebody going to come at you with some foolishness.

If it ain't nobody but you're selling. Somebody going to push you to where you won't have to stand up for yourself. If you don't, they're going to continue to vanish take you, man. You could be the most humblest person in penitentiary. And somebody will try you because they think that humbleness is weakness. That's what they think. And then if you don't assure them that it's not. floodgate's going to open.

You know, just like running the storebox. Let somebody buck on you and don't pay you. And everybody knows. Man, everybody in the pod trying to borrow from you. Hey, yeah, Ian, let me borrow this. Or let me buy, because they're not going to pay you. Because you ain't do nothing to the first guy. So you have to set a tone of who people dealing with.

Otherwise, they go with the assumption. You know what I'm saying? If they go with the assumption, man, then, you know, you got dudes in there. Don't bother nobody. You got Muslims. You got Christians. You got dudes that's just meek, and they ain't trying to get in the nothing. A dude going to look at him like, oh, shoo, man, he got some money.

Say you meek and you don't bother nobody, but you get money. Your people say you money. They say you go on the store. They want that money. Hey, yo, man, give me a couple of suits, man. They ain't got nobody looking out for me. As soon as you say, no, what do you mean? No.

Let me get yours then. You know, then what you're going to do? So I can't see it, man. I can't see nobody doing, no, I can't see it. You know, I know some dudes that have minimal problems, minimal. And, um, but I can attribute it to something. Like my dude, Star, started 24, 25, something like that. He had that many problems, but he came in at 16 for broad daylight murder,

shooting somebody like 19 times. So that was known. He worked out every day. He doesn't cuss. He don't cuss. He don't drink. He don't smoke. All he's do his work out.

And mine is business. Then later on in time, he started doing, you know, little stuff like, you know, selling little drugs to make ends meet, running a little storebox. But he kind-hearted. And he cut up like an action figure. And he's known to have already took life. So there ain't too many people playing with him. He's been in here since he was 16. So people consider that.

But that's not normal, though. You know what I'm saying? The average person in there. And he did have a few, but not as many as most. But the average person in there going to have some problems. You know what I'm saying? And then me, it was inevitable because of the things I got into. I got into the gambling.

You know, that brings a lot of problems within itself. And I knew that. But I'm being honest. I couldn't stop. I couldn't even stop at the time because I was addicted to it. And then it was the only thing besides working out did occupy my time. in my adrenaline. And I knew.

I didn't been in poker games, man, dudes and got sad. I'd have been to poker games, dudes and lost their eye. I haven't been to poker games, dudes and got their whole face slice. But I never been in the poker game without having that Bethlehem on.

You know what I'm saying? I love that you guys called up Bethlehem. The Bethlehem, man, is going to put you right in Bethlehem with Jesus and the man. You're going to have to be reborn again. If you get hit right, it's better. How do you even hide one of those in there?

Man, they got plenty ways, man. I had hiding places in. It was so, man I had a hide place in one cell I was in one time they could never find it I don't know how Jones you was in you know like they got them little stools in your cell with the desk you know how they weld it and they pole in there

well that pole is hollow and I had a cell one time that you could get down on the stool and like get on and then twist it real hard and you can literally screw the whole stool off and the whole pole is hollow and when you screw it back on and you look up on the bottom, it just looked like it's welded. They never bothered. I paid a dude to get in that sale because an old timeer told me

that cell right there where you need to be in young blood. They got a high spot in there. Don't nobody knew about it, but I was here when they built this joint. And I ended up going in the cell. I paid the dude, let me go in the cell. And I seen it was true. And then I paid the dude to try to get the sale. And I ended up getting this sale.

Because at the time I had a cell phone, I was getting a little drugs in. So it would behooved me to head at it, and I'm told me the Bethlehem. So I could put it all there in there. I put the knife in there, put the cell phone in there, put the drugs in there, and close it up. And I'd have been shook down. I don't have the dogs coming there, everything. They could not find it. And it was impossible.

They would have to literally know it's right there. Yeah, that's a, I've never heard that happen. Yeah, and then, you know, the doors. We had this thing, man. I don't get these people all these sea cup. Well, I don't know. They might not even do it no more. But, you know, like on the back of the door

where they got that little thing that you could pull, the clothes of it and opening? Okay, where they get the doors like that. I literally had the maintenance, man, come in my zone and loosen it. And then make me a makeshift screwdriver. And so when they leave and the door is closed, you know, when it opens, it's behind the wall.

That part is behind the wall so they could come in. But when it closes, it's right here in front of you. So I could literally, take that off. Pull the phone and the stuff out of the door. Take the phone and put it in a glove and then put it in a sock and wrap it up and put it in another sock in a glove and then shove it all the way up in the door and then put the phone back in, put the piece back on the back, and they open the cell to come in and shake down. The door, this is the wall. The door is right here. So when the door opens, the door goes like this. So now this part, the phone,

is in, it's behind the wall, and they're shaking down everything in the cell, and it's literally right in their face, and they never find it. I literally have a Bluetooth earpiece in a cell right now on the institution, because when they came and locked me up, it was in the door, and I never went back to that cell again. So it's literally in the door right now. Whoever finds that one day is going to be a lucky bid. You know what I'm saying? It's a Bluetooth earpiece, and it was the first one I had, because I had the phone. I had a phone one time for like about like five and a half years, man.

And, yeah, that became one of my nightmares too because I had been locked up so long I didn't know anything about a phone. And once I got one, I was addicted to it. And, man, I had a foolproof system, man, and it took somebody on the street to tell on me for me to get caught. But I had that jump for like five and a half years.

That's a solid run. That's a solid. I wouldn't, there's no way I would have got caught. if it won't for somebody on the street my old selly's girlfriend end up telling on me because he got in trouble and he went to the hole,

came out, and he was on the other side and she came to see him and she got caught bringing himself and they threatened her. We're going to call the state troopers. You're going to lose your job on the street. You're going to get charged. You're going to be a felony.

And she just up and say, wherever I tell you, somebody got a phone where you not call the police or call my job. They said, who got a phone? They said, will you not call? And they said, she said, my boyfriend's old silly got a phone. They said, how you know?

She said, I just talked to him. I talked to him last night. I told him I was coming to see my boyfriend. I opposed to calling back when I leave. It was like, well, where the phone there? She said, my car. She went out to the car with the investigators and called me on the phone. You answered?

I don't answer nothing unless I got your name already in, and I keep it on silence. But I got it on my desk and I'm brushing my teeth, and I see her name just popping up. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, oh, I look at the door, I go get it. Hello? Don't know about to say nothing.

I say, hello? Put it down, go back to brushing my teeth. And I'm like, man, that's crazy. My instincts was like Spider-Man, dog, because I had got away several times just off my instinct. So I'm like, man, clean myself. I go back. I call it.

about it. And somebody answered for. I said, did you just call me? And I don't heard nothing, but I heard the side door open and all I heard is keys and footsteps. I said, oh my God, I brought to the door, and I'm in the corner up top, and they come upstairs, and I say, if they turn this way, they come and they get and they come up the stairs real fast, and I'm looking,

and they turn that way. And I took it apart, take the SIM card, and put it in my mouth. I had pockets on. Every one of my drawers, sweatpants, short, was pocket that had the phone. So I put it in the pocket in the back. I got a pocket on the inseam. I got a pocket in the back.

Put it in the pocket in the back. I looked at my cellie. He would only been in my cell a couple of months. It's crazy, too. I never saw him again. Coincidentally, he doesn't just file me on this, and he's a cook. And out there, well, man, I'm going to go see him.

But I never saw him again after that. They came to the door. I looked there. I said, man, they come in and they come in. He's like, what's the door? I said, come. came straight to the door, man. Come here, turn around, put your hands up.

Put your hand by you back. I'm like, sir. Put your hand around your back. Turn around, get to the door. I said, man, yelling ain't going to get it. You got to say what you got to say. What's going on? Because I know I'm caught.

And it ain't nothing I can't flush it. Can't do nothing. I'm stuck. So when I'm stuck, I'm trapped. You know, then that's one of my aggression. Come, I'm like, eh, y'all, man. What you're going to? What you want?

Hollin and screaming at me and all that. What's going to do? What's up? Tell me what's going on. It's the captain come. He said, hey, look, just come through the door, turn around, cuff up, man, whatever, what I don't. Cuff up. My hand is literally behind my back like this, but it's sitting on the phone.

You know what I'm saying? They take me out, take my cellar out. And my plan was my hands behind my back. I was going to toss it as we were going across the block. Bruh, you can't make this up, man. It would be like Comedy View, man. My cellar was walking in front of us and the sergeant was walking with me. Literally was walking beside me like this.

He just watched me the whole time. It was like he knew. You know what I'm saying? So I couldn't get rid of it. And they took me up in the sergeant's office and script searched me, but I did get rid of it when I was in the sizes office. I saw a trash can in there. My first instinct was I'm in a bathroom, a sergeant's bathroom,

with two sergeant's bathroom. I'm going to try to flush it down the talk as soon as they take these cuffs off. And I know they're going to try to fight me. I'm going to fight. I take the fighting charge. You know, just so they won't get the phone and get the information.

and I ain't know if they could pull all that stuff up. So I take the fighting charge and I just were going to say, man, they jumped on me. I was fighting back. That's what my plan was. Like you say, things don't always go as playing. When I walk in there, I see a trash can. So I go stand right over the top of the trash can and put my back against the wall.

I said, what's up, man? They said, man, we got strip searching, man. That's what we got strip search. I said, shoot, okay. And just like my feet hit this, I did that and stepped away. it's all I take the cuss off. When I did that, I dropped it in the trash can. And I walked, I said, man, take the cussar.

That's what y'all want. That's what all that's about. And I went into my talk game to try to throw them off. And it was like, yeah, yep. So they script searched me. And I'm talking the whole time. Okay, why, what I was, man, that's, man, what I was doing? Y'all bombats.

They cuffed me back up and take me in there to the captain. Go get my celly and take him in there. They take my celly in there. They stay in there like two minutes and come back out with the phone and bring it in there and show it to the cab and say, I dropped it in the trash when I was in there. I said, no, I did.

I said, no, cap. And I'm sitting there cuffing in front of the captain. So I'm saying, now, look, you need document that. Now, they didn't took me in there and strip search me. They didn't brought me in here. I'm sitting in front of you. They're going to go in there and come back with a phone. Come on, bro. You just took me in there and strip search me. If I had a phone, that's

the purpose of a strip search. To reveal contraband. Oh, no, you know how he is. He'd be you know he'd be wild enough so we heard it but we was going to wait till we nah no cap right there down man come on man and he was like he's looking at him like y'all messed up but he's like i gotta lock you up man i said man man come on bro put that in your notes man you know that's wrong though dawd that's wrong sitting in front of you they just strip search me he said i got to lock you up man you know what

I'm gonna write the report like i said man write that down he said I am they lock me up man and um they found, you know, the kangaroo cord. They found me guilty and shipped me off the camp immediately. I got found guilty like on a Tuesday. I was gone on Thursday. You know what I'm saying? And they knew I was going to beat it on appeal.

And I did on appeal. Now I'm on an higher level institution, but now I got the phone Jones because I didn't have it for so long. I came from this level that I was on first. Sussex 2 down a level to where I got caught

with the phone on Greensville so then they sent me back up a level I've been here I've been having COs and was bringing me this then and the third

but I didn't know about a phone now I know about a phone I got COs up here I know what work for me I go straight to them hey I need that phone I need that phone they was like

oh pink man man that phone dangerous on here man people be getting caught with them I need that phone what you need. Got the phone, man, like an idiot. And I ain't had that jump boat.

Nine months, tow off. Somebody told me they seen me move, they watched the way I was moving. I was hiding it in the shower. And somebody peeped it and told the people. So they caught me, sent me up in the mountains, the worst place I've ever been in my whole bit. in my whole bit, sent me up the wallace ridge. 33 years, worst place I ever been.

And I went all the way up there for a phone, man, because I couldn't need the phones alone. And, um, yeah, ironically, when I got up there, after I was there about a year, I had an opportunity to get a phone up there, of all places. And I said, no way. You can't, you can't, you can't give me there one of them. I don't want a beer, man.

I don't want to use yours. I don't, yeah, man, it cost me too much, man. It cost me some years, man. And it caused me to be in the worst place that I had ever been, man. You know, yeah, that's the worst of all of them. Why is it so bad? They're super duper racist, man. They're super racist.

I'm talking about it's like a live running episode of Roots. I mean, they call you the inward to your face. The guards and the staff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the guards is not. 99.9% white. They call you the N-word. Just like in conversation, like, it ain't nothing to them.

Like, you might say, hey, man, you got a request for them. And it'd be like, in, what you want to request one for? I mean, like, it's nothing. If you buck or you're like, what you say? They got, you know, they're chewing tobacco. You know, they got guns. They got the dogs. You're frying your face up.

They'll get on your knees, man. Get on your knees, man. You threaten to me. on your knees. You got to get on your knees. You got to put your hand behind your back. You got the gun over top of you. They'll shoot you. You know what I'm saying? They'll back up and say, man, shoot them. You know what I'm saying? So, um, yeah, it was vicious up there, though. They moved with it, um, impunity, man. They ain't got nobody over top of them. There's nothing that nobody's doing. They're doing what they want. Um, they took life up there, you know,

several times before I got there, um, with nobody paying the price for it. So, um, I knew this going up there, everybody was hearing about it. They was, when they first opened, they put in cattle prongs to dudes, man. Yeah, dudes was coming from there and there with big reps on their face, their neck, their back. Like, what did it? It's that? He had long cattle

prawns. They got through that episode where the people made them get rid of them. But they was brutalizing dudes up there, breaking legs, knocking out teeth. I'm like, you know, so when I found I was going up there, man, that's the only thing is in my mind, man. I even My mom, I said, man, they're going to kill me.

They don't kill me because if they do me like that, I know what I'm going to do. So, yeah, you know, I felt like, yeah, I felt like I won't be able to duck it. And then when you get up there, they ain't on top of all of that. They got the gangs up there, man. I saw it was putting all the gang members at because they had to justify opening all of these spots. You know, they dynamited a mountain And carved it out and built this prison And set it up inside it to help the economy up there

And you got all of these racist jokers working up there That ain't been around black people, brown people in their whole life And they chewing tobacco and they Embed it and they're talking to you like you ain't nothing And they will kill you up there and cover it up You got nepotism running wild up there You got the mama, the sister, the daughter, the cousin, The auntie, the ground mama working there.

you say something to one of them, then the other ones is down on you. You know what I'm saying? So it was just insane, man. There's some stuff you couldn't even make this up, man. It's like a bad episode or wrong turn up that joint. You know what I'm saying? I'm telling you, bro, you got dudes up there that's 5'4-6

and wear a 17 shoe. You know, it's just insane. I'm like, man, and they're chewing tobacco, and this is when tobacco is outlaws, so can't know inmate had tobacco. And y'all don't post their tobacco. Don't post be no tobacco on the camp. They're chewing chewing tobacco, spitting it out all on the yard and stuff.

Doos got so desperate up there to smoke, they started picking up this old chew and taking it back and refriing and drying it out and selling it. Gross. Gross. Beyond gross. But the more crazy about that is it became a commodity. Dudes was getting rich off of that. Dudes was getting stabbed over there.

by who can get it. Then they're set up in the booth at night and chew and chew and chew and chew and chew and chew and chew more. And then they'll throw it away and tie the bag up and throw it in the dumpster. And dudes will be racing to get to the dumpster to get the old bags. They can tell about the smell. And they get the old bags and bring it in and dry it out and resell it and make thousands of dollars.

So if you try to beat the dude to the dumpster, then y'all beef. You know what I'm saying? If a dude see a glob on the green, and you run to it before he can get to it and then y'all beefing. It's insane, bro. This is what prisoner do to you, man.

They have you killing each other over spit out tobacco. You crazy? Yeah, but it was real up there, man. That's how hard the times was up there. If you look at any pictures that I only have a few, if you see any picture with me up there, you can see the life out of me, though.

That's the worst I ever looked, the worst I ever felt. I was in... chill mode, I just felt like anything could happen, man. Then they started paying the gang members to take hits out on dudes because they had got so much drama and pushback for taking lives and beating people and brutalizing them that they started paying the gang members to do it. They be like, look, man, you go mess eating up, man.

I don't like it. He'd be writing up a lot of stuff, man. Yeah, go ahead and get them, man. We ain't going to do nothing. We're going to shoot him soon as y'all get up off of him. And we're going to write the report up and say that he swung on y'all first. They was doing stuff like that, Joe. So, and they said, yeah, y'all can do it with you out when we on dinner charge. And then they bring it in, you know, pornographic magazines, selling them the dudes for hundreds of dollars and dudes reselling them for hundreds of more dollars.

And then if they don't like you, then they'll just send the other police to come confiscate them from you. And then they'll take them again to the gang members to go get somebody they want to get. Crazy. Crazy, dog. Now you're going to survive and something like that, man. And, you know, so I'm like, I'm a race against the clock. You know what I'm saying? Eventually they're going to come my way.

And I'm going to, you know what I'm saying? I'm going to have to put one of them down, you know, or the administration going to mess with me. And if they, you know, you can't beat them. But if they beat me like that or, you know, knock my teeth out or break something on my body, as soon as I hear, bro, I'm going to let your chair because I'm going to get them. Or they're going to kill me. Because I'm going to get one. If I can't get them, I'm going to get them.

Because I can't live like that, man. I ain't to be brutalized. I ain't to be, you know what I'm saying? I'm not built for that. You know what I'm saying? I'm not built for that. If I don't do nothing to you that wants you doing that to me, you're not doing that to me and walking around.

Not and walk around me. You can do whatever. I can't get to you and you're gone. If you do something to me like that and you're around me, then you're an idiot. You's an idiot because I'm going to get you. And I don't care what it costs me. I don't care, man, because I just can't live.

look at you. I can't see you knowing that you didn't impose that on me. You know what I'm saying? And they was doing it up there, man, like it won't nothing. Now, I've been talked to. Yeah, they didn't talk to me like, but they never whip me. They never whipped me. And I don't know if it was because of what I had in my record because I had been through that before. You know what I'm saying? I've been through it on the gust of, and the police want to do all this and do it. And I told them, it's a own document. I say, as soon as y'all let me up, if I ever see you, if you let me out on this yard, I'm telling you. the governor, I'm going to get you, bro. And I'm telling the captain this.

And he's like, you ain't going to do nothing. He was racist. He just spit on me, man. While I'm chained down and four points were... And I said, brother, do you think that you're going to be able to walk around me again? And he's like, you ain't going to do nothing. You ain't going to do nothing, boy? You don't run nothing around here.

You don't run nothing. And I'm looking at him, man, and tears is running down my face because I can't do nothing. And he's joking me Like, yeah, you crying, boy, that's what you do And I'm telling him, I look him straight in his face I say, if I ever see you, if I ever see you without cuffing on, I promise you, you'll never see me again.

And I meant that. And he knew I meant that. They sent me to Mecklenburg. So it's just, I don't know, man. I just ain't built like that, man. I can't, you know, I'm not saying I'm invincible, but you're not going to do nothing to me

and stay around me. You're not going to do that, man. I think that's some of the most bravest things I ever seen anybody do in prison. And I don't care who the person is. You are the most bravest person I know if I can take your shoes away from you in the block and I'm in with you

and wear your shoes the next day. You got to take some cahoos for that one. You know what I'm saying, and these dudes be sleeping on people like that. Like everybody in prison ain't in there for something. That's crazy. And I actually know a dude he go rob the dude. It's a white guy.

So he robbed him. Take his money and go play in the poker game the next day. In the same block, he don't run the dude out of the blog. He don't do none. Take his stuff. Plus him a couple time and take his stuff. And he went right down there and played poker the next day. Back against the wall, snipples on, everything like it ain't none.

That white boy came right up behind him and stuck that thing right in the top of his head. DoA right there, killed them in the block. Because you was so, you know, blind that you think that you can do that to somebody, man. Even if you get away with it, how long do you think you can do that? The audacity to say, I can take your stuff and go gamble with it in front of your face and you're not going to do nothing. I can take your clothes and I'm going to go wearing right in front of you. Man, dudes are still a dude's shorts and go play basketball in them the next day. Man, you lying to me.

You're lying to me. So it's just prison, man, where just have you just, I tell people all the time, brother, it's no way that I can explain all the nuances and the craziness and the foolishness that goes on in there, man. And this is why people lose their life in there. This is why people are so paranoid. I said, man, why you think people in prison as you see came out of prison for a long time

always turning around, turn around. It's because everybody, you don't know where it's coming from. You don't know what it's coming from. I do it now. And I've been old almost five years. I got to look behind me when people walking behind me. Because I don't see dudes walk by four or five times and then on the sixth time, you know.

So it's in me to, you know, and maybe one day it'll get off of me. But no, man. Man, I seen too much. I don't seen too much, man. And, um, I just, I, I see it too much, man. It's just a different world, man. And, um, and you ain't going to lead prison if you've been in there longs.

I have to be unscarred, man. You just can't. And I got physical scars, you know. I didn't have been stabbed. You know what I'm saying? I haven't been busting the head. You know, I've been in more fights than I can think of. and mentally, you know what I'm saying?

They mess with you mentally, man, you know, you know, like right now, you know, I sleep by myself, but there's nobody in the house with me. But I lock my bedroom door every night, every night. You know what I'm saying? I can't sleep without it, you know what I'm saying? I make sure all my doors is locked, my screen doors is locked, you know, it's just habit, man.

So, you know, certain things that I do that still, you know, prison-oriented, But it's the only way, that's the way I survive, man. So I go with what works and what I know that makes me feel comfortable. You know what I'm saying? But you're not leaving prison unscarred. That's impossible. How was your relationship with your mom and siblings throughout the course of your 33 years in there?

My mom, man, was my rock, man. I literally just had my first meet and greet, man. Shout out to TP Nation. I had my first meeting greet 29th and 30th of this month, man. A lot of people came out from different states and whatnot. And I presented my mom with a award, man.

You know, it had some prayer hands and stuff on, and let her know head on there and scribe, man. Your prayers kept me alive, you know. And my mom was my route, man, my whole bit, man. There's been times, man, my mom came to see me when I told the don't. Because I ain't want to, you know, the disposition you be in, the moods you,

in the situation you in. And my mom always showed up. My sister's, you know, my brother went off to the army. He couldn't really take coming up there, you know, seeing me like that. But for the most part, man, my family was there for me the whole time. And I say that's needed. It's really needed, man, because as I'm explaining to you there, the way the frame of mind I was in. And, you know, the depression that I've suffered a lot of depression in there, man,

because everything looked meek, you know, and then you get turned down for parole and turn down and turned down and turned down. It's like you don't even expect to make it no more. You expect to turn down, you know. So you have to trick your mind and to believe in things that don't even seem real. So if you ain't got no family out there loving you or loving on you and coming to see you and making sure you're all right and checking on you, what you got to look forward to? You know what I'm saying?

So I think I needed that. And my family always been there. And to this day when I got out, man, you know, like I say, my family always been there. I'm close with my brothers and my sisters and my mom, like on the meat and greed. My mom was there. Both of my sisters was there. You understand me? My nieces was there.

You know, I'm cool with my son. I had two kids before I went in. My son is my editor. It's not a video I made that he ain't edit. I don't know how to edit. He edits it. He posts it. He makes the thumb there.

We've been doing this from day one. He told me to start YouTube. So my daughter, 20, 20, 26, 27 minutes away from me. I've been with my grandkids. Every Christmas I've been. home every trick-a-tree, every Easter. And, you know, I'm blessed to have that. Because I could have came home and my kids could have been like,

you've been gone all my life. I ain't got a ton of food with you. That could have been my fate. But they embraced me. You know what I'm saying? You know, like I say, my son is my YouTube partner, you know. And my daughter, I see all the time. My daughter called me when I was on my way up here.

She said, Dad, when you're coming back, I said, I'll be back tomorrow. She said, well, I need you to take him to get his hair cut. He's three, you know, those are big things to me. You know what I'm saying? I get to go take my grandson and get his hair cut. Her oldest, my oldest grandson, I was there for his graduation. I took him to his prong. I took him to send him off to the Marines.

He and the Marines now, you understand? I was able to send him off to the Marines. 18 years old, ain't never been locked up. I ain't never been in a gang. I ain't never shot a gun. and he and the Marines. I'm proud of that. You know what I'm saying?

I'm proud that I've been in his life for the last four and a half years and was able to navigate him away from that foolishness. You know what I'm saying? And that's what I got to do with the rest of my grandkids. Those type of things make me, you know what I'm saying, feel like, you know what I'm saying?

I'm somebody, you know what I'm saying? Not nothing else, but that and people write me and say that my stories help them. That makes me feel like I'm somebody. Because over than that, I'm just a regular day. You know what I'm saying? That's it. We are, you know.

That's a regular dude, man. You know what I'm saying? Trying to, you know, have an impact, man, with the knowledge that I got. You know what I'm saying? I'm telling you, man, and I will preach this until the day I die, there's no scenario no one can give me of why you will go to prison. I know people will, but this name, when you break it down and put it in perspective like, is it worth it?

There's no, I would say that. There's no worth it you can give me. Oh, man. Well, if I could, I take a chance to get $30 million for what? For what? 30 million ain't even worth five years. It ain't worth a year. You can get killed.

You know what I'm saying? You know, oh, man, somebody do something to my mother. Well, this is my retort to that. somebody do something to my family, me and my mother, my daughter, and I say, okay, this is my retort to that. Now, I ain't going to never advocate for nobody being locked up

because I know what that is. But I tell people this. I can assure you, if somebody do something to you or do something to your family, I can assure you this. It would behoove you to pray and hope that they get locked up.

You understand? Because if you do that, and they do get caught, and they have to go to prison and they pay for that for 20, 30 years. They will wish you had killed them. And your life will continue. You can help your family heal.

You can be there for them. You can mourn with them. Your life and your legacy will continue. But if you do something to that person, then your life is going to be what his is. 20, 30 years in prison, I beg to say it's worse than death. I ain't been there. I've been there.

you know what I say? I beg to say that's worse than death, man. You know, and then when you take that step, you're paying, you've been punishing yourself for what they did. You are punishing yourself. You are volunteered 20, 30 years of misery just to make sure they're not here no more. And you don't even know if they're in a better place.

You don't know. But you do know where you're at, and then you don't remove somebody else away from your family. So you didn't gave them double pain. No, man, you let them, if they get caught, oh, I promise you. Damn, take two or three years. They're going to wish they were dead. They're going to wish you at a quarter.

So it's not really a scenario that's really justifiable for doing something to somebody to put yourself in prison. There's no amount of money any lick you can pull that's going to justify you can go to prison. I got to bawled out, man. I've sold drugs. I'd have made a million. I'd have made five million. I'd have made ten millions. billion in 10 years.

They can take it in 10 seconds and you can do 30 years. Is that going to equate? No. Tell me one person you ever knew that was in prison that don't want to get out. Everyone wants to get out.

Everybody wants to get out. So why is people out here working so hard to go in? It doesn't make sense. Like you were saying, the cons outweigh the pros. Yeah.

You know, it just doesn't make sense. Yeah. I tell a young dudes all the time. I say, brother, do you know anybody locked up? Yeah. How many times they called you? How many times they call you? How many times they call you say, what's going on out here?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That going to be you. That going to be you. You either going to collect, you either going to accept, collect calls, or you're going to make them. And that's going to come by the choices you make. You either going to accept them, but you're going to make them, bro. Because if you're going to hang around these dudes, they're going to be calling you collect, yeah, straight up.

And they're going to be going to get out. here to do what you're doing. So while you out here doing what you're doing, make it count. Because if you end up in there, man, sometimes it's going to come in time. Dudes ain't ain't going to answer them cause. Because they're going to say you was out here. And you ain't going to have nobody blame but yourself, man. Bro, you can use the same energy you use it with that foolishness to do something positive and it may take longer, but you're going to, you will be a right. but everybody want to shortcut, man.

Everybody want to go for the fake goal. Everybody want to thank the, hey, 10 million people smoke crack. They turn into crackheads. I ain't going to turn into one. It's just asinine thinking, man. Oh. Father's Day is June 15th, and Point Reyes Farmsdale cheese has a gift dad will actually love.

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From our family to his. Happy celebrating. All these drug dealers got caught, but I won't. Okay. Go with that. Now, you were talking about some of the mental health effects that you've had. do you seek therapy at all since getting out? Have you been interested in that?

Nah, and I ain't really been interested in it neither, you know, and I've been asked that, but I just feel like, just like in prison, man, you know, one of the other but me. Same thing I'm telling them, man. You ain't nobody going to be there with you but you. And I just believe, man, you know, what was we doing before we had therapy?

What was we doing before we had doctors and medical, man, you know, I believe the body can heal itself, the mind can heal anything. And I just pray, man, you know, that's my therapy. I pray, you know what I'm saying? I feel like I'm good, you know what I'm saying? Because I can maintain, but, you know, whatever I deal with, I deal with it internally, and I pray about it, you know. But like I said, I don't think it's going to be nobody that did the amount of time that I did

and don't get no issues. They meant I say it. I mean, I ain't anything to hide, you know. I'm saying. Yeah, you're going to have some issues, man. You know, you're going to have nightmares. I had nightmares when I first came home, man. I wake up, man, and don't know where I'm and people don't consider all of that. You know, just like if you get to involve with a woman or something, people don't see that. You've been sleeping by yourself for 30-something years, man. You can't roll over somebody to touch. You might wake up and do it because, you know what I'm saying? Because that

ain't happening in prison. You sleep alone. So it's a lot of things, man, that people don't understand. They don't realize. And I understand that because they haven't been where I've been. They haven't seen what I've seen. You know, they don't know the things I know. So it's complicated because you have to, you know, you have to educate them on that. And then they won't understand.

A lot of times I've heard this so many times since I've been home. Did I, I don't, if I don't ever heard again in life, it would be cool with me. Well, banking, everybody does it like this. what if I was going to do everything that anybody else, then I might as well just be everybody. I can't do it like that.

I have to do it the way that it makes me feel comfortable because I come from a place when you get uncomfortable, things get dangerous. So I got to be comfortable, you know what I'm saying? And that's why I just, you know,

I deal with it, man, on the daily however, however, man. And be honest with you, man, my therapy, for real, is my followers, man, my friends, my family, my TB Nation, team bankie pound nation. That's my therapy, man.

I talk to them every day. I think some of them been in there so long, they know my disposition. They can see me when I'm on there. They say, something by me, you ain't a bank. They know, you know what I'm saying? Because they see me so much. And some is just super, you know, locked in.

And they'll say, man, oh, yeah, you got something going on. Woo-da-woo, woo, you know. And, yeah, that's my third be, though, man, because I talk to them every day, man. And all it takes is one of them, for one of them just to tell me, man, well, man, we need you over here, man, we have to look forward to it. And I'm back. You know what I'm saying?

I'd be back. I'd be like, okay, all right. You know, somebody, somebody think I'm important, and that's good enough, you know? So, yeah, man, but you're going to go through things. You're going to go through ups and downs because that's just the nature of it, man. You can't see the things I see. You can't unsee stuff. You can't.

You cannot unsee stuff. I don't know nobody who can do that. You cannot unsee stuff. I've seen things, and most humans should not even see. You know, I don't see it at all, man. I don't seen throats cut, eyeballs knocked out. I've seen a dude's head stunk where it don't even look like a head no more. I've seen a dude's gutted.

I see these colossal bags thrown off of tears bashed in the head with weights it's sickening man you know what I'm saying I could go the rest of my life and don't see no violence and I'd be good you know so

you know and just to think man that you know I survived a life like that man I got to feel blessed man I got to feel like it's a purpose for my life for my life. You know what I'm saying? Because I won't supposed to survive all of that.

I'm not that bad. I'm not. And I don't know nobody who is. So I know I had people with me. You know what I'm saying? Something bigger than me to say, hey, man, we'm going to get you through this. You might not come out with unscathed,

but I'm going to get you through this. Then what's you going to do? So I'm going to try to help some people. That's it. That's all I could do. What's some advice you wish you could tell your teenage self you go back in time and stand next to teenage you. Man, listen.

Listen to the people that love you. Listen to the people that love you. I tell these people like this, take your advice from the people that would be your 911 call. If you got in trouble and it was you had one call that was going to save your life,

You're going to call your friend. You're going to call your homie on the corner. You're going to call your girl. Or you're going to call your mom or your daddy or whoever is your caretaker. That's who you're going to call. Your 911 call should be the person that you take advice from. That's who you take it. Whether you like it or not, that's who you take your advice from.

If you're going to call them in the time of need, why wouldn't you listen to them? You understand me? If I listen to my mom, I would. wouldn't have been in the situations if I wouldn't listen to the streets. When I got locked up, ain't any of one of them chokers couldn't help me. Ain't that one of them jokers come to court. Ain't there one of them get no lawyer money together. And I ain't called that one of them.

I called my mom. Same person I wouldn't listen to when she was trying to tell me right from wrong. So I'm telling you, man, pay attention who you take your advice from. Look at where it comes from who and what's the, source. What's the gain out of your parents telling you don't do something and you just don't like what they're telling you? What do they get the gain out of that besides your best interest? But somebody on the street tell you to do something and you go following them and do what they tell you to do, man, they ain't going to be there to pick up no pieces and they have something

to gain. They have a motivation to tell you what they're telling you. And nine times out of ten, it's going to benefit them more than you. But people won't listen to their parents. They won't listen to their mom. They won't listen to their grandma. They don't know nothing. They're too old. But they're the first person you call when you need them.

And they're the last person to be there for you. They're there when it's all over when everybody else gone. So I would tell you to listen to the people that you were calling your time of need that you know will pick that phone up. Whether you want to hear what they got. Because the truth for the matter is almost. everybody in this world need advice, but the ones who needed the most accepted at least.

So, you know, you got to listen to somebody, least listen to somebody who love you, man. Least listen to somebody who care about you. Don't listen to them streets, man, because the streets don't love nobody. The streets is undefeated, and the streets will be there when you're gone, you know, and the dudes in the street.

I went to prison for 33 years. I came home some of the dudes. I grew up and still doing what they were doing when I left. They're just older and doing it. They're just saying that. The same thing. And they mad at me because I don't want to participate.

Why would I? You know, I ain't got no love loss for you, but man, I'm past all of that, man. But it's just, you know, I say life is you do things over and over again, it becomes a routine. If you continue that routine, it becomes a habit.

If you continue that habit, it becomes a lifestyle and you can't get out of it you can't you have to really sit down and have a meeting with your mind to make you break that lifestyle now the thing about that is if you're going to go from you know a routine to a habit to a lifestyle make sure it's something that's beneficial to not detrimentalty because once you get to that lifestyle it's going to be hard to break you know and that's what happened with a lot of people they they get in that routine or that lifestyle. I'm doing this.

And you're getting away with it and you're getting away with it and you're sliding by. You're sliding by with it. But, but, blah, everything comes to a end. And that's when you, you know, you find out everybody loves a winner. But when you lose, you lose by yourself. Everybody gone. If you're the man, everybody loves you. When you understand, don't nobody love you.

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, man, just just pay attention to your surroundings, man. And no matter what, you got to want some. something for yourself before more than somebody else wanted for you. You have to want something for yourself more than somebody else wanted for you. More than your mama wanted for you, more than your daddy wanted for you. You got a warning for yourself in order for it to work. If you don't want it more than other people want it for you, it ain't going to work.

It ain't going to work, man. You could take your son and you want him to be a world champion, but if he ain't, it ain't what he wanted to do, he's not going to be one. It's just that simple. want more for yourself than other people want for you. That's what you have to do, man, in this lifetime, man. And always know that when you young, man, people don't acknowledge, when you're young, bro, you can do anything in this world

that you set your mind to it if you lock in. Oh, I want to be in the NBA. Oh, I want to do this. You can do it if you lock into it when you young. People got this misconception. Oh, man, I'm going to have fun when I'm young. Then when I get older, I'm going to do what I got to do. that played out.

That's old school. Everybody in the NBA and the NFL and all these early 20s. Yeah, they were time by time they're 30 some. See what I'm saying? Because they put that work in when they was young. Now they be able to do what they want to do later. Do what you got to do now and you'll be able to do what you want to do later. I made that statement up when I was in prison.

I was doing the re-entry. That statement is literally painted on the wall with my name. name on it in the prison. They painted that on the wall before I left. We had this re-entry program we had to go into and I became the senior coordinator, the leader of that program and they got that

painted on the wall with my name on it and it's still up there. You know, and that's one of the things I'm most proud of, man, said, do what you got to do now so you can do what you want to do later. Bankology 101. And the other one, there's two of them. The other one that says

don't pretend to be who you don't intend to be. And I used to tell the dudes that in my speeches before we left, man, I said, man, don't go out here. You've been locked up 20, 30, 30, 40 years, and your family been holding you down, and you're going out there telling them, oh, I ain't going to get high no more, I ain't going to rob no more, I ain't going to be cheating and stealing no more. Don't just tell them what you're going to do. Don't break their heart, man. Don't pretend to be who you going to be. If you want to go out there, get high, just tell them, man, so they can go head on let you go about your way,

give you a little help and see on you. But don't go out there fooling your people, man, when you've been in this miserable, depression, oppressive world, and then you go out there with the only one that was loving on you while you was going through this and you're lying to them. Go out there and tell me the truth, man. I'm a dope fan. I'm going to be a dope fiend.

I just don't want you to expect nothing of because that's what I'm going to just tell the truth. Don't pretend to be who you don't intend to be, especially with the people that you love. you know what I'm saying give them the truth man and let them make a decision based upon that you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?

If they held you down when you owe them that tell the truth you know so I guess they liked it but they got them right on the wall in there man and I was proud of that man that they put that up there man they painted that up there

and I talked the dudes that's still in that prison and they say it's still on there so I say yeah that's what's up man that's incredible well bankie pound thank you so much man I'm glad we finally got to do this.

This was a, you know, one of those ones in a lifetime interviews that you get to do and sit down with someone. And you're a man of wisdom. You've experienced a lot and you're using it to do good. And I appreciate you and I respect you. And I wish you the best in life. And, you know, keep doing you, brother. Absolutely. I appreciate you, man.

To TBP Nation, man. Y'all make sure y'all go mess with a locked-in and in big, man. It's been a class act over here, man. It's been long anticipated. I sure do appreciate it, man. And I share return, man. But y'all make sure y'all go. Because I ain't locked up no more, but I'm locked in with Ian Big, man.

Salute.