Locked In with Ian Bick - Bookie For The MOB And SURVIVING Max Federal PRISON | Chicky Cecchetelli

Episode Date: July 9, 2023

Former Bookie for the Genovese Crime Family David "Chicky" Cecchetelli sits down to share his story from growing up in Springfield, Massachusetts to landing a job with the mob and being sentenced to federal prison.....twice. In this episode we dive into Chicky's upbringing, what working for the mob is really like and how Chicky was able to survive a maximum security prison. Thank you to Factor Meals for sponsoring this episode. You can support the show by going to ⬇️FACTORMEALS.COM/lockedin50and use code lockedin50 to get 50% off your first boxConnect with Chicky Cecchetelli:https://www.youtube.com/@chickycecchetelli1010https://instagram.com/chicky__cecchetelli?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==00:00 Intro00:32 Factor20:59 Start of Crime 25:52 Becoming a Bookie/ Genovese crime family30:52 Fat Chicky in the News33:07 Operations as a bookie45:12 Perks of the Mob49:11 Principles as a bookie51:56 Factor 55:01 Dangerous Situations1:00:29 Crazy Bookie Story1:02:32 Federal Indictment 1:07:27 Snitching/ John Gotti Story 1:12:52 Prison Life1:22:30 Eating in Prison1:25:50 Prison Stories1:30:24 Back with the Mob after prison?1:35:19 Another Indictment 1:44:27 Message1:46:40 Life Lessons Connect with Ian Bick: https://www.ianbick.com/Subscribe to our membership program on YouTube to get early access to interviews, see behind the scenes photos & more:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRvVklIft6DMelVW18M0oBw/joinPowered by Q29 Productions, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Tax title license and dock fees extra, plus government fees and taxes. 7,500 miles per year, expires 6126. Who available at this payment? PH 71529, PH7159. We are back with another episode of Locked in with Ian Bick. I know you guys love the mob stories. So today I have chickie-chicatelli here with me to talk about his time being a bookie for the Genevievee's crime family.

In this episode, we hear about his upbringing, the time he spent working with the mob, and how he was sentenced to federal prison, and then get out of prison and ends up back on house arrest for a second criminal case. Hope you guys sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode with Chicky Chickateli. Also, guys, I have really exciting news for you. Factor is our first sponsor for Locked In and is sponsoring this episode today. Huge thanks to them for coming on board. Factor delivers delicious, fresh, never frozen meals that are ready to heat and eat in just two minutes. You could support our show by heading to FactorMeals.com slash Lockedin 50 and use code Lockedin 50. to get 50% off your order. Also, guys, before we jump into today's episode, I wanted to just take

one second to touch on one quick thing. I was reading the reviews from the survey a lot of you guys have taken to support our podcast, and one of them really stuck out, and I just wanted to share it with you guys. One of our watchers said, Locked in is about redemption, broken humans healing, learning and doing better. And in the process, other humans are helped. I think that nails what our show is about right on the head. And I just wanted to appreciate you guys who take the time to leave us, comments, reviews, everything like that. This has been a great learning experience. And the show has really, really, really progressed in just a few short months. And if you guys could continue to do us a favor and go on to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast from,

and just, you know, leave us a review. It helps boost the show and gets it out there to more people. All right, guys, that's all I got for you. Enjoy this crazy interview with Chickie Chickadele. Chicky Chickadele, man. Welcome to Locked In. You came all the way out here from Springfield. Really appreciate you making the drive. I've been looking forward to this interview since we talked like two weeks ago. And I think the viewers are going to love it. I think this conversation is going to be great. It's definitely like the first one of its kind we've had on the show. before we get started, I have to ask, is Chicky your real name? And how the hell did you get the name Chicky? Since I was a kid, you know, Chicky, everybody knows me by Chicky. My first

name born name is David, David, John Chichotelli, but Chicky might as well be on my birth certificate at this point. It suits you. I love the name Chicky. Because it's not like what you expect, like when I first talk to you, like Chicky fit your personality. But it doesn't really like fit the person. But no, I love it. So. I'm not calling you, David. I'm calling you a checky. I got you. And thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. Thank you. Of course, man. Starting at the beginning of your story, where are you from?

Where did you grow up? What's your childhood like? I'm from Springfield, Massachusetts. It's Western Mass, west of Boston, right on the Connecticut River. Harford's 35 minutes from me. New Haven's maybe an hour and a half. New York, the city's about two hours and 15 minutes. We're centrally Providence is an hour. Boston's an hour. So we're essentially pretty much around everything, really. And you grew up lower, middle, upper class? I'm going to say maybe middle class or maybe a little lower than middle class. My father worked his whole life as a shop foreman at a chain belt company in my area.

And my mother, 45 years, was a crossing guard for the kids. You know, she had kids that she crossed and their fathers and mother she crossed and even their grandkids at the end. And 45 years, she was doing this crosswalking, you know, the guard. That's awesome. So that was like her full-time job. Yeah. Interesting.

I've always been curious, like if people do that full-time or if it's like a part-time gig or how that works. Well, my father worked full-time, obviously. So, you know, she did it just to kind of get out of the house. And three times a day in the morning, the 12 o'clock kids that get out, and then three o'clock. She did it 45 years, so she must have liked it, you know. And they loved her.

Mrs. Chick, even my father was Mr. Chick. Mr. Chick. Yeah, he was a baseball coach, a big baseball coach in our area. All the kids, I mean, he would pick up the kids, you know, in his old Ford LTT, you know, probably 10 kids. And back in the day, it was funny now looking back, but he used to smoke cigarettes. He was a chain smoker, you know, when we were younger. And nobody knew about all that's dangerous. So we'd drive 10 of us and a whole car would be like smoke.

You know, we didn't even think nothing of it, but, you know, it was a different mentality back then. Now, did you have siblings at all? Yeah, I have a sister, and I have two brothers. And the youngest brother up from me, they're all older than me, is essentially 11 years older. So my mother laughs. She passed, God rest of her soul, my father, too, but she used to laugh at me. And she said, we sold all the child stuff. And I went to the doctor because I thought I had the flu, but it was a live flu.

she was to say. So I essentially grew up, you know, my siblings were out of the house when I was growing up as far as 10, 12, 15. They were already gone, married, and had their own family. So I pretty much grew up, uh, myself, my mother and father and my mother's mother, my grandmother, lived in the house with us. So when my parents got home from their honeymoon, she was there, you know, so I essentially had two mothers and my father and me. And, uh, my grandmother, and, uh, my grandmother, she was the cook, the head cook of the house. My father would get out of work, he'd be hungry, and he'd go there and start picking, you know, how they do it. And she would, you know, start swearing, get out of here. So it was funny. A lot of laughs, a lot of fun.

It was a good, very good childhood, you know, not like today with the cell phones and the computers and you sit in your room, you know, you'd be out in the morning, 8 o'clock, and, you know, you'd have to be home when the lights came on, whatever time that may be. So it was a great great time to grow up, you know? Do you wish you had, like, siblings that were closer in age? Like, I know for me, I've always, like, wanted a sister to see what that was. Like, I have a brother, but I've always, like, wanted a sister. Did you feel, like, a loner in that sense?

No, not really. I mean, I played sports. I mean, I wasn't the best at it, but I played sports, and it doesn't hurt when your father's the coach, you know what I mean? But anyways, you know, I had a lot of fun as a kid. And I never thought of it that way as far as, you know, oh, I was sure. They were younger. Just, it was what it was, you know.

Now ethnicity, fully Italian? No, no, no. You know, pretty much Italian, but my mother has a little French in her. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, my mom's side of the family's Italian, so I knew what you meant by, like, with the grandmother doing the cooking and the big meals and the picking, they get mad when you go in the kitchen and all that.

Right. My father, actually, my father has seven brothers and four sisters, and they grew up on Arthur Avenue in a five-story walk-up. So, like, from whatever, a two-bedroom, that's a lot of kids. And so they're from the Bronx. And my father came over with, I think two brothers stayed there, and the other five, and my father, whatever it was, came to Western Mass, New England area,

to their thing was the auto body business. And I guess at the time from what my father tells me, in the Bronx and then surrounding New York areas, there was a lot of autobodies. So they picked up, you know, and my four aunts came, and they came to Western Massachusetts area, and they opened probably at one time. We had six autobodies.

Every brother owned their own auto body. And to this day, three of them are still open. But my father wasn't into the auto body business. I mean, his brothers and everything. My father was in the Marines, so he went off to the Marines, and then he came home, and he went into manufacturing. And so to this day,

I got a lot of cousins. We got a ton of cousins. And they're all into the auto body business. That was their thing? Now, when you were growing up, was your father connected to the mob at all? No, no. So none in your family.

He knew a lot of them. He respected them. But I want to say, if you want to compare it to something, he was almost like in Bronx Tale, the part that Robert De Niro plays, where it's like, I respect them. I know who they are, but that's not me.

My father was a hard worker. And that's all he wanted to do. You know, he, it was old school. He'd come home on Thursday, give my mother the check, and, you know, they go do their billing. But my mother paid all the bills. You know, my father would just, whatever, allowance, you know, it was all about family, all old school. You know, my father was in bed eight o'clock at night. And, you know, it just was a very normal home.

I grew up in a very normal, pretty tough area of Springfield. It was called Hungry Hill East Springfield. I was right on the line. Tough Irish kids. and then a mixture of Italian and so on where I was. So I grew up playing sports with the Irish kids, with everybody, you know. But yeah, it was a great, great childhood. It really was.

I was blessed as far as that. What time period is this, just to put it in perspective? Probably all through, like, mid-70s on. And I graduated high school in 1985. So, and then, you know, so all in probably from like, you know, 70s, mid-70s. 70s on. And yeah, it was, I mean, it was great. I made a lot of friends and was into the sports, hockey, baseball, soccer. And it was a great childhood. You know, I have no bad memories of childhood, you know. That's great. Yeah. I think it's going to be interesting as we carry on

throughout this conversation to find out how you get into the life you become, not coming from your dad, because a lot of the people I talk to, it stemmed, you know, from a family member when they go into these types of things. So that'll be interesting. But focusing on like middle school and high school, I know you said that was great. Were you like hanging around a rough crowd at all? Yeah, it was rough kids. I mean, you know, we had a, like I said, it was a mixture of Italians and Irish who hang around with. So you got the craziness of both. But it was mostly sports. And when I graduated high school, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. So I joined the United States Navy. Wow. Yeah. And I went to boot camp February of 1986.

Gray Lakes, Illinois's Navy boot camp. And I did very well in boot camp as far as like the A school and the schooling after the thing, after the boot camp. And I remember just funny story, the top three guys in our class, highest scores, got to pick of one of three duty stations. And you would guarantee at least one of them three. So, you know, as a just a fluke, I put in, you know, I'm from, it's winter, it's freezing, you know, below zero in Chicago. So I just put it as a fluke, Honolulu. And I actually get Pearl Harbor. Really?

USS Simron. Yeah, it was a attack oiler. It's decommissioned now. So, you know, after A school, I did very well. I got my duty station. I mean, I came home for, they let you come home for about a month because they consider it going overseas. even though you're not here in the United States. And, you know, Honolulu is considered part of the United States.

And I had to meet my ship in Guam. So here's a, you know, I'm on a, it's just like, and I really didn't go nowhere pretty much before that. So, yeah, so, I mean, that's how, you know. And I remember it was funny. I had a, you know, girlfriend at that age. We were 17, 18. And, you know, once they hear, you're going four years to Honolulu.

That didn't last too long, you know, after. But they all love the, like the military guys, so you meet girls out there and you do all that. It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. High school, are you getting arrested at all? You getting into trouble? No, like, you know, during high school, a couple of fights and, you know, you get picked up, $50 bail. Nothing bad.

That came after. And, no, just, you know, ball ball ball. I was always known to be a ball buster. I was very, made people laugh. You know, I was a jokester. You know, I love doing practical jokes and which, you know, like I said, just crazy things like just one example. We used to go down to the south end, which is the Italian section of Springfield, all the social clubs and restaurants, Italians. You know, we knew all the guys and I'll get into that after how I knew them.

And we would have back then they had the one cable box and the clicker, but it worked. The clicker worked on every house. You know, all you had to do was go up to the window and press it. the TV. So we go down to the Italian club and we look through the cellar windows and all the guys would be horse racing or football, be a lot of money bet on them games. And we'd wait till like a bomb was thrown. I'm just giving you a little. No, I love a bit. Yeah, the crazy stories we used to do. And they would chase us. But we go downstairs and for a few times we'd laugh because they didn't know what it was happening. But we wait for like a bomb to get thrown and everybody's up at the TV

screaming, the Italian guys. And we'd shut the TV off. And if we had a cell phone back then, the reaction was you would be crying. These guys would be throwing stuff, curse in the TV. And then the same thing again. You know, next time, if there was a boxing match and they're fighting it out, we'd switch to like a kid's channel. And the reaction was incredible. Yeah, because now you can do it now on the app with the phone and you can just sync it in.

I'd mess with, like when my cousins are over, I'll flick it off with the app. Right, right. And then they, at the Danbury Mall, they opened up a prank store when we were in high school. Right. So we would go and buy the stink bombs and the ones that you shake and throw, so we'd put those all over the high school and middle school. It was absolutely great. Yeah, so, I mean, that's kids.

We were crazy as far as that, the things we used to do. But looking back now, I'm like, oh, my God. But it started off small, like just busting chops. And, you know, so that's how it started. Were you a bully at all? No, no, I was never like that. My friends, the ones we hung around were never like that. We were, like, want to call it, anti-bull.

like there'd be guys that would bully people. And even back in junior high, we'd go up and say, hey, buddy, we pull them a little side and say, what are you doing, you know? And, you know, there was bullies. I mean, now it's crazy what's going on. But yeah, so we would be kind of, want to say, anti-bull, you know, something like that, you know?

Yeah, like you were the cool kids, but you weren't like the popular ones. You guys were like in your own circle. Yeah, in our own circle. Like a lot of athletes, like guys that went on to play for professional hockey were around me, you know, in our area. they went on and they became really good athletes and, you know,

we were around them kind of guys, you know. Now, this area in Springfield, are you guys seeing like violence growing up at all from like what's going on with the mob or anything like that? I mean, not just them. I mean, the gangs forget about it. But that was in the 80s.

Now in 2023, it's a whole other level. You know, I mean, in Massachusetts, Springfield's the top five of the most violent. I mean, there's Springfield. and then right two miles away from us is Hoyo,

they're in the top five of the most, even Boston, even in their top five. So, yeah, we had a lot of craziness. What do you think was something that, like, you saw that or heard about during when you were growing up that really stuck with you? Well, I mean, I don't know if it stuck with me, but it definitely, we've seen a lot of things, you know what I mean,

murders and this, and not me actually seeing it, but, you know, it was a lot of gangs back in, you know, 80s, a lot of gangs, excuse me. And, you know, you just see this stuff and it's like, you know, it didn't like stick with you what affects you, but you're like, wow. And I mean, now it's a whole other level, you know. Do you think it like put like a thought in your mind that would like develop later on when you actually joined and being a part of like these types of activities at all? I mean, not really. I mean, you just thought it was normal. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, even to this day, even back then, I don't know if it was something wrong with me,

but I used to root for the bank robber to get away. You know what I mean? Like if you see something on the news and the cops are chasing them, you're like, come on, take a left. And in your head, you're thinking this way. And it was crazy. Even as a young kid, I can remember 14, 15, 16. And it was just crazy because you see some kids,

they have, like, posters on their wall at the time, say, new kids on the block or Madonna or some sports figure. And you'd go in my room and it was the funniest thing because I had a whole wall. with like gangsters and John Gotti senior and you know it just was crazy that was our mindset though you know what I mean I didn't want my father's like say hey you want a poster of uh whoever at the time base brought red socks and I say no I'm all set and then and it was funny because my mother was totally against it she'd come in to clean my room and she'd see the posters and I'd catch her once in and she'd give the all you know you know what I mean and uh I can go on to after what were that led to but as I got older and uh you know 16, 17, 18, my friends and I would go to bars in Springfield,

and they were owned by wise guys. A lot of these bars were owned, and we never got carded. You know, you're supposed to drink when you're 21, but once we started hanging around, they knew all, you know, these guys are good guys, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And so the bouncers, we didn't even wait.

You know, I mean, it's just the way it was. We wept right in line, but we would always get in trouble for bar fights and disrupting their business. And I can remember, Several times I got pinched with my friends who later on in life, I mean, came up to be like bosses in that, in the organized crime. So we were hanging around since little kids, and we get arrested, excuse me, we get arrested, and we'd make bail after a day or overnight, and I'd come back to my room, you know, and all the posters would be ripped down. Like, that was my mother's chance to say, it's going to, you know, your mind's, you know, whatever she would say.

She'd rip all the posters down. And then a week later, I'd have them back up again, you know, but it was funny. It was, it was funny. And then later on in life, it was a little bit crazy because my mother started getting used of it because between me and a family member who was in trouble all the time, the cops or organized crime task force would come to our house later on, you know, in my 20s. And my mother at that point would just sit in the front porch and say, you know, who are you here for chicky or my relative? Oh, wow.

So it was, you know, it just became crazy. So as a teenager during that time period, what's you and your friend's view on, like, the mob and organized crime? Oh, it was like people that look up to, you know, whatever, LeBron James, that's how we looked up to them guys. I mean, I'm just being real, you know, because you, that's it. You know, you think that's, this is it. Oh, my God.

Oh, did you see the alligator skin shoes this guy had on? Oh, this, that, whatever it was. Oh, she is car. you know, you're thinking different, you know what I mean? It's like we looked up to it. I think it'll lie to you. Like somebody will look, somebody will look to go to college and be a great athlete in college or win the

Heisman, just say, we looked like, oh my God, if I could ever make it to that level, you know, it just was a whole completely. You looked up to these guys. 100%. 100%. Yeah. And you think that would definitely influence you later on in life? Oh, yeah.

I mean, like I said, I was around one. in particular guy who, you know, according to, you know, the news, not me, I'm not saying nothing. It's just what they said about him. But he ends up becoming a boss and actually got murdered at our social club after a Sunday night card game. And the guy's name was Adolfo Big Al-Bruno. And he was around us, me particular, more than the other guys. I mean, I knew him and I respected them and they liked me, but this was the, this particular guy was my guy.

you know what I mean I end up you know later on in life you know running his sports operation for gambling and stuff and that's what I was convicted and was sent to prison for and uh yeah so you know you look up to these guys and uh it's just the way it was I mean it was just a crazy crazy time yeah so for the most part you know normal family hardworking parents absolutely grew up nothing major you got into what kids get into yeah you go to the Navy yep so where does it what what what Where does it change? You know, how does someone that grows up like that goes off the wagon into something different? Well, what happened was I ended up getting out of the Navy, okay?

And I was retired because I got hurt in the Navy, an accident in the Navy. I got hurt. So they retired me. So I come home and, like, I didn't know what I wanted to do, you know, odd jobs here and there. And me and two friends of mine, close friends, my childhood friends, the guy I was mentioned, Adolfo Al-Bruno, Oh, good guy. What a name. Yeah, yeah, he was a good guy.

And he presented us, excuse me, presented us with a million dollar business. He owned a piece of property with a bar, wine, beer, wine, a whole restaurant on a lake where a ton of people came. And if we did it right, we could have been multi-millionaires, but we were 21, 22, we didn't want to work. Be honest, would you. We used it as a party place. and he owned the property and the business.

So we, he said, go in there. Nobody's in there. You know, pay me this little bout, whatever, give me a piece, and do it. And this was like 1990, 91, the clubhouse. We had an outdoor venue with a stage and everything. And at the time, it was big with the clubhouse music. Lizette Melendez, Johnny O, remember them? That's, yeah.

I wasn't even born yet. It was a freestyle. They call it clubhouse. So we would get these people from New York to come. A lot of them were in New York, most of all of them. And they would come down to do a show at our place. And the whole beach would be packed, and there'd be girls, and, you know, beer and wine selling out food.

We had a great opportunity. And needless to say, it only lasts a year. Because every weekend the cops would be pulling in, and, you know, there'd be fights, which probably 95% of the time we would create our own, fights would, you know, somebody didn't want to pay or wise guy. So we had a great opportunity. I mean, we were too young, though, too appreciate it. But Chicky, why does this guy give it a bunch of 20-21-year-olds at this club? That's like they- He believed in us back then.

Really? But we wore that out all quick. But no, he believed in us and he said, you guys can make some money, you know, make a good money and it's legit. So he was trying to put you guys on. Yeah, he was putting us on in the right direction as far as making money. And, uh, and then all the sports and everything. I mean, as kids, we were betting games. I had one friend, his God is my judge, and he's a big-time guy out there. He got out of that life.

He ended up cooperating and got out of that life, but he was my childhood friend. And he does podcasts. The guy, his name is Anthony Erolada. And he was betting games at 15 years old. They knew his voice on the phone. So he would call me and say, can you call, use your voice,

and bet, like, he'd give me like 15 games. at a thousand a game one night or one weekend, 15-year-old kid. And this guy's honest truth, this is the kind of kid he was. He was a bad gambler. And, you know, he paid sometimes, and sometimes he didn't.

But so we were around guys that were like that, love gambling and stuff like that. So since from like even my 15, 14, we were betting games that, you know, I wasn't, but, you know, I was doing it for him, but, and that got us in a lot of trouble later on in life, you know. Do you think if that business had worked out, your life would be so much different now? How many businesses is 19, 20, 20, when you kids are involved in, and you're thinking, if I only could go back the age I am now, I'd be a lot smarter.

I'd take it serious. I think about that all the time. Yeah, so what I'm saying is that's an open question. You could think of that. I mean, there's probably some of your people listening that probably said, oh, my God, if I would ever stuck with that. But at that age, we're, you know, it was just about, let's have fun, you know. I know we're not supposed to dwell on the past, but I like, I always find myself thinking about the what ifs, like, what if that business worked out? What if that relationship worked out? Like, sometimes you think about it. Yeah, you do. But you can't, when that goes off in your head to say that, you got to kind of just snap out of it because you should or could or woulda, we didn't it. I use it as a motivator, I think. 100%. You use that. It's like, okay, it didn't work. I don't dwell on it to where it's like I'm like sad over. I'm just like, what if? And then I use that to base my next to. A few.

decisions, future decisions off of. I got you. Well, that's a good way of looking at it. So one quick comment, you know who you remind me of while I'm looking at you and you're talking about this story? John Goodman from the gambler. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's telling him, because that's been popping up in my TikTok lately.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one scene where he's like, you know, you got to have to fuck you money, you got to do this, you got to do that. Yeah, yeah, he's talking to Mark Wahlberg. Yeah, about that. That was a great movie. Yeah, that was funny. I know what you're talking about.

So how do you go, like, what's next? After this business fails, how do you? how do you start evolving into like a bookie and getting into that? During the time, and this is all public knowledge, it's like I'm giving secrets away, but during the time when we had the little restaurant bar venue, in my area, Bruno, Adolfo Bruno's guys, he had a lot of older guys in the office.

They all took pinches. Some had to go to jail. Some, you know, obviously you can't do that no more. They're watching you. They're on probation. So it was funny. It's a funny story. because I knew what it was, but I didn't know a lot of the terminology.

And I can remember one of my dear friend's father coming up to me. And he said, hey, Chicky, we need a guy in the office. He trusts you. He likes you. Do you want to do it? Do you want to clean out the office? That's what he said. So now right away, I knew what taking bets was, but then I didn't know what clean out the office means.

What that means is you stay on top of the other bookmakers where they can't pass post you. They can't, after a game is already won. They say, oh, somebody called it in. You stay on top of it. We used to do it through faxes and going to the house and picking up the paperwork. Right. Like if the game started at 1 o'clock, by 10 after 1, you went and got the stuff or at least faxed it to you where you're staying on top of it.

So I can remember it was funny now looking back, but I can remember as a kid saying, I ain't cleaning out the office where I got to sweep and do toy. I ain't doing that. And the guy starts laughing. He was, that ain't what I mean. And, you know, then it took a couple minutes, but I knew what he meant. But that's our thinking. I'm not clean.

Imagine I'm not cleaning out the office. a sweep, I go do a regular job, you know. But it wasn't that, like I explained. But yeah, so it started off. I had known Bruno, and I known a lot of the guys because as a kid, 10, 11, 9, I used to work and my friend's father owned a huge fruit stand, big fruit stand in Springfield. So I worked there on the weekends, you know, for a kid making money, and they would all come in and they would use it as a, they'd buy their Sunday morning, their vegetables and fruit, whatever. And then, they would always use it. He had a backroom that used to store pasta and wine grapes and different things and they would go meet up there and we would always be inquisitive. Oh, who's that guy? Oh,

they pulled in with New York plates. Oh, that guy's from Rhode Island. You know, and we would be, you know, hide and looking. So we ended up meeting them, a lot of them. I did through that experience. Now, what family are they a part of? Well, allegedly, but, you know, it's, like I said, It's a, it's, uh, what makes Springfield unique and some parts of Connecticut is, allegedly, they're part of the Genevese crime family. And who is the Genevese crime family? It's one of the five families in New York. Uh, they call it the Ivy League, very, very big family, uh, very powerful, you know, um,

I mean, back then anyways, you know, now, I mean, come on, they got a, um, they got a, camera on every street corner. Everybody got cameras now, you know, so I don't know how it is now, but, uh, you know, It is what it is. But like I said, that's what, you know, that's what makes it. Because Boston has their own thing, you know, part of the patriarchic crime family out of Providence, Rhode Island. And they got Providence, which is tied in with them. And then in Boston you had the Irish guys, Woody Bulger and them guys, they were mixed.

And that was another whole story that was tied in with our area. But anyways, yeah, so they got the families. Boston is pretty much the Patriot. York of crime family. So Springfield, there's only maybe an hour in 10 minutes, an hour and five minutes from, like I said, from Boston, right on the Connecticut River. We're actually close to Hartford. And, yeah, so they were, you know, since probably 1930, they had a wing, allegedly, had a wing in our area of the Genevice. What are you, what are your thoughts on them at that time? Are you afraid of them? Are you excited to be working allegedly? What do you do? What do you? It'd be like,

Do you feel like you just got drafted Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to remember the movie Rudy? What was the guy's name? Whatever, the guy that played for Penn State. It was like, in our head, that's how it was. Like, you know what I mean? It just was a crazy way of thinking, you know?

But as kids, like I said, it was like, I got drafted to a Division I college in my head. It just happens to be the Jeddiv's five. Well, whatever, yeah, allegedly, yeah. That's pretty crazy when you put it in perspective. like that, but that was normal for you. Yeah. Now, is your, like, what's your communication like with your parents? Are they like, you're a fucking idiot? What are you doing? No, no, they were, I mean, they'd say once in a while,

be careful, but it was never like you, what'd be an eff an idiot? Nothing like that. So they didn't sit down. No, it was around. They knew. My father knew the guys, my father go to the touch football games and the guys who were involved, sons would play or nephews would play, and my father would chop it up with them. They laugh and talk. And so it was normal. Do you think it disappointed him? No, no. I mean, it disappointed them when I would get locked up and there would be bail and I'd be on the news. And then I remember one time it was funny. We had a big reporter, organized crime reporter in our area. And she's been doing it for 20 years. She knew everything about everything. And you know, they want to come up with these names. They call you. They make up a name for you. And I'll never forget it. It was 2005. and we got picked up by the feds. It was an FBI case, and the headlines was fat chickadele

for running a multimillion dollar illegal sports gambling. And instead of, like, it was funny because the next morning after we got made bail, I had went over to a friend's house who was involved in that business. He goes on years later to be the boss.

And we get in his truck, and back then it wasn't to social media and all that. so he had the newspaper and instead of saying oh my god we got arrested we're in trouble i wonder what's going to happen we weren't thinking that i get in his car to go get coffee 7 in the morning and he's laughing hysterical and i go what do you laugh at he go and i didn't know at this point and he goes did you see the front page of the newspaper i said no so he shows it to me and it's big there i am right it's snowy day i'm wearing a green and black velour celtic sweatsuit you know they come four in the morning you can't just say well let me get a nice out of

fit. You know that. Yeah. And he shows me the front page. Fat chickie, chick a blah, blah, the whole thing. So instead of being like, oh, I'm like that filthy. And I'm abusing the reporter saying, you know, you know, for, I don't know why they would call me fat chicky. I don't know where they got that from. Yeah. But no, no. But I'm just saying, uh, they make up names, you know. And so she made up that name and it stuck with me to this day. Any article you read it, which, what are you going to do? You know, I laugh. You got to laugh at yourself from because if you know, you know what I mean. There's good press. No such thing is bad. Yeah, no.

We used to, we lap. But I was more concerned. They called me fat chicky than the federal indictment that ends up putting me in jail, you know, going to federal prison. Yeah, but I got arrested. But that was our thing, you know. I was so concerned about the comments and the titles. I was thinking more about that than anything else. But now, how does it lead up to that? Like, what are you doing?

What is the ins and outs? What's the operation? I was in the office. I mean, I was running the office, big office, very big office. How old are you? Early 20s? Yeah. Yeah, 21, 22 roughly. What's a day in the life? Well, I did it.

I did it. Let me just give you a little scenario. I started working in like 1989, 90, right when I got out of the military to 2005. And then after that, 2005, I went to prison. And then when I got out, of course, you're on the three-year probation and Iran you, and you can't really do much. And, you know, I just started thinking differently. in between that time, 1993, I had my first daughter, and 95 had my second daughter, and I was married.

So, you know, like I said, you just think, start, in my head, in back of my head, I'm starting to think, you know, God forbid I catch a big case, and I got to go for 20 years or what, what are they going to do? I mean, what are, you know, what are my kids going to do? So I kind of, you know, I mean, I was doing small things here and there just to grab a little extra money, but the crazy thinking started a little bit, you know, slacking off a little bit.

You know, you're thinking different now. Now you start thinking, you're not thinking, I'm not thinking of me no more, I'm thinking of them. And that's, you know what I mean. But you still kept doing what you were doing. Yeah, a little bit, but I thought I was, everybody thinks they're smarter because they're thinking like, well, this and that.

Oh, well, if I, if I go down six streets and back up and go another way, you're going to throw off a person following you. But in your head, you make yourself feel good thinking that. But if they want you, You're going to get you. Are you making a lot of money as a bookie? Yeah, a lot of money. And it's all cash?

Yeah, it's all cash. I mean, I think when I got pinched, well, it was overall $3 million in a couple of your time. But they estimated like $300,000 a month. Now, you're not like working for yourself. You're working for these guys and you're one in particular guy. And they're paying you a salary to do this. Salary. And then, of course, you know, if they had a good week, you're getting a commission, you know, whatever.

Now, are you involved in the violence aspect of the law? I mean, that's one thing about me. And you cannot, you know, anybody will tell you, I wasn't the guy, oh, let's go break somebody's head. But I wasn't the guy, you know, that would say, I'm only a sports guy. I don't do that. There's been a lot of times that they would call and say, listen, we got three guys. We need two more. All right, let's go.

Not crazy, but a beating or whatever. You know, yeah, I did do that. But, you know. Yeah, what happens if someone is in gambling debt with the mob? How does it go down? Well, they tell you, Chicky, I can't pay this. Well, in my own, you know, in my own, you know, what I saw, we were around a good guy. Like, listen, the violence thing, I mean, people could make up these stories on YouTube,

all these crazy stories. I killed 30 people. I killed two people. All this nonsense, which some of them did some of that, but they work it out with you. You know, they're like, hey, you know, what can you pay a week? You're done gambling. Don't do that. And, you know, they're not looking to bust you.

You know, they really ain't, okay? Don't get me wrong. There are some crazy guys out there that used to do crazy things. But, you know, anything with violence, you know, it ain't a joke. You're going to jail. In other words, not even jail for a few years. Violence, that's where you get stuck. That's where you're, you know, the 10, 20, 30 years.

You know, that's what happens, you know? Yeah, it's not worth it. Yeah, it's not worth it for them to, like, kill someone over 10 grand. No, I mean, don't get me wrong. In history, where they're crazy people that did that, yeah, but they ended up in their trunk. I mean, uh. That happened. Roy the Mayo.

You know, I could name crazy guys. They don't last. You know, yeah, they're feared, but they don't last, you know. So my guy, you know, he was good like that. You know, whatever you need. He'd even say, you know, if you, oh, well, they'd say, I remember a couple of months and since, oh, we lost our job. Don't worry about it.

Go over to Freego's, which was a huge plant that sold Freego meats and stuff. Go Monday, say, I sent you, boom. The guy's got a career, you know, making, so he was very good, my guy. if I had to compare him to somebody in a small aspect, I would compare him to like John Gotti Senior of our area at one point. You know, that's how he was. Very flashy dresser, gentlemen, help people. You know, but he was just a, in my experience, he was a good guy, you know.

Were there big names in the mob that you were interacting with? Or are you just low on the total? No, I mean, I mean, no, I mean, there were some big names, notorious guys. One of my friends, he's worldwide. the two brothers were from my area. They were with us all the time, eating dinner, going to their houses. His name is Freddie and Tai Gia's.

And Freddie allegedly, and I hope somehow they find out it's not true, but he's accused of killing Whitey Bulger, you know, the notorious Boston gangster. In prison. In prison, yeah, and Hazleton, West Virginia, which, you know, whatever it is, the cameras they couldn't see. So it might be a setup.

You know, they got them in the hole for almost five years. That's crazy. Yeah, they had them in a hole with no trial, no nothing. And just recently in the last year, they just brought charges on them for murder, him and another kid that we know from up in the Boston area. But we grew up with them kids. We used to laugh, go drinking, go to dinner, go to her house. I mean, you know, and they were, and they took, both of them took life sentences and stood up. I mean, they could have cooperated and they didn't.

And so, you know, these kids were around us. another guy ends up becoming the boss my childhood friend and he left the cooperated and left the life. So yeah, I mean, Bruno was not, they got pictures on the internet

of Bruno on a boat in Fort Lauderdale with Little Nicky Scarfo from Philly. I mean, so, you know, you're talking about some big people. I was in prison, MCC Manhattan with Vinnie Basciano, Vinny Gorgeous, who allegedly is, I like that word allegedly.

But he was, That's safest word to use. Yeah, he was supposedly, you know, one time a boss of the legislator banana field. Now, you grew up with John Gotti Jr., too. No, no, no. I didn't grow up with him. We became friends later on in life. Your paths crossed?

A path crossed through M.MA. His son's an M.MA fighter. He just fought Floyd Mayweather a few weeks ago. Yep. And guy's a gentleman. I mean, he was a high, high-level guy. You know, allegedly he ran the family when his father was in prison. But he did his jail time.

be five trials in three years, like millions and millions and millions of dollars in legal bills. And he got out. You know, he just said, listen, you know, you've got six kids. He's like, you know, I got to bring these kids up. And he's doing good. He still lives in New York. You know, he's around all the time. But he's done with the, you know, he's doing all positive things. Now he's done with the illegal, illegal aspect of things. But a real gentleman. I mean, really a good father. Got a lot of good things coming. He just made a documentary. It's coming out called Witsack Mafia.

It's been a few years. He actually let a couple of my friends have acting roles in the movie, you know, I mean in the documentary. And he kind of helped us get into the acting business, which I was never an actor. I mean, you know, never, but I never ever thought about it. But he hooked us up with some people and that's another we can go on to that after. But yeah, so I'm doing that kind of thing now. I was in a couple movies already.

One will be coming out. Hopefully this year, it's all production has done and stuff. It's with great actor James Maddieo. He played in Band of Brothers hook when he was a kid. Some top, the offer based on making the movie The Godfather. And he was shooting the Willie Pep Story, who was a pro boxer. It's called The Featherweight. Leonardo DiCaprio is a production house company that produced everything.

and we went there, me and a dear friend of mine, who did 18 years in federal prison for extortion, he was in prison in Raybrook with John Jr. And we got together with another M.MA fighter named Damien Trites, who was a friend of mine, and he said, show up to Hartford, Connecticut. We're filming the movie. Maybe we're usually in the audience,

the camera or pan, you'll be in the audience, cheering, or whatever. And so we go there during COVID, and it was very stringent rules. you know, you had to take a test or they wouldn't let you in. So our friend Damien ends up popping positive for COVID. They said, you got to leave. So it's only me and Brian. So we're there.

We meet the director, James Maddow. The star comes up. He plays Willie Peplock just like him. And he says, he looks at us, you know, and he says, oh, no, we're going to use you differently. We're not going to be passing you. You're going to have a role. I'm like a role.

I'm not even, you know, I did one thing before, but I'm not an actor. so ends up from going for somebody they're supposed to pass in the audience we're in a talking role with the star of the movie in a locker room scene and of all things I play a bookmaker in the gym where Willie Pep used to train and I'm spoken to cigar

we've got the old clothes on they had to take makeup cover all the tattoos you're supposed to be like in the 1950s or early 60s and we get like two months later we get a message me and my friend Brian Hoyle and said hey, congratulations, you're in the movie, in the actual scene talking to me, because, you know, he did a talking thing.

And I couldn't believe it. I'm like, are you kidding me? And I said, well, thank you for the opportunity. And he goes, thank you for bringing in authenticity to the film. And I'm in like a, you know, I'm a big guy. I got the cigar. I got the 1958 suit on or whatever. And what an experience.

I mean, it just, from that, other things are starting to come positive. Yeah. And that's what I'm trying to do right now. I mean, I'm older now. I got grandchildren. My two daughters are, God bless Mary, with great husbands. So now I'm just trying to do the right thing and do positive.

And unfortunately, you know, I got tied up with something three, four years ago. But that's another thing, just wrong place, wrong time. But, you know, how that works. But it's all about, you know, you don't have to wait, in my opinion, from what I'm seeing. You don't have to wait to your face in 40 or 50 years or 30 years in prison. You know, while the money's good, everybody wants to be a gangster. But then when they're facing 25 years, I mean, come on, the cooperators today in the United States or East Coast alone.

I mean, they just- But you didn't have this mindset back when you were at the peak. You were, you like the money. Gone home. I got a lot of your girls. It cost me a marriage, you know. I got a great wife, my two beautiful daughters, but there's only so much a woman's going to take when, you know, you're coming home and you got groceries and the FBI is waiting in front of your house.

Or the state police organized crime task force comes in and completely destroys the house. You know, they take. me, I'm going in there a little cruiser, and then I get out a day later when I make bail on my wife, the house is upside down. I mean, a normal girl, she was a hairdresser. I mean, you know, people, some girls, that's cool. No, it ain't cool. Not when you have two little kids. So at the peak of this, when you're really at the peak of being this bookie, are you thinking about ramifications like, hey, I'm associated with these guys that that law enforcement could be looking at me? I knew they were looking at us. They used to follow us. They used to send,

And after a couple of the cases, they used to send pictures to my lawyer and say, I'd be coming out of an Italian pastry shop. And then a couple of my friends that were involved would be behind me. And I wasn't supposed to be with that person. So they would write to my lawyer and say, listen, you know, but they couldn't prove we were in there. I went in there to say pastries for my whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So they couldn't. We were never like in front talking. But so they're on you. They're on you. So it's like the movies. They're sitting in the Crown Vicks. 100%. 100%. Yeah. And they write up a report, special agent, whatever his name was, followed me through boom, bang, wherever they, listen, when they're on to you, they're on to you.

So, somewhat like the perks of being in the mob, was it, what were they? Like, what were the benefits? Are there a lot of girls, the money, the gambling? Yeah, I mean, like I said, you know, I mean, everything. I mean, it was a very... You were living good. Oh, living great. We were vacations. We were, I take my wife to Florida all the time with the kids. you know, later on the restaurants, you know, wherever you go, you don't wait online. Honestly, we used to have a big venue. It was an Asian, I'm not Asian, a Polynesian restaurant called the Hokulal. It's famous on the East Coast. Great guy, Johnny E. owned it, his family and sons.

And there'd be lines that have all these top comedians or top performers. And remember the scene, and this is a God's honest truth. And anybody that hears this from my ear will know. But it was like that scene from Goodfellas when they walked through the kitchen and around and there's tipping people and they walk up and the guy puts a table if you ever seen a movie right in front of the stage.

God is my judge, that was us. I'm sure that was a lot of people, whatever thing you're in, if you're in a gang or biker, you're spending money, boom, it just is like that. And it was like that. As God is my judge, you know, I'd go in there with my girl and my wife,

whatever it was at the time. And honestly, the lines out the door and they're like, chicky, come on. They open a side door, and my friends do it, go right in. And it was just, you know, it comes with a cost, but, you know. Yeah, did you ever feel bad about going into some of these restaurants knowing that they had to give up some of their hard-earned money to the mob or anything like that? I'm going to be honest with you.

I never seen that. In our area for a long time, they didn't really bother straight-laced working people. Like, they didn't go up to them like you've seen the movies, a little bakery with a mom and pop. I'm going to come for 150 a week every, I don't know about New York, because I, you know, like I said, I wasn't there, but I'm sure they do that, but not in my area they didn't.

Not until later, later on, you know, and that's basically that kind of attitude doing that, took down organized crime in my area, just for doing that. Because a lot of these people that did own restaurants and stuff would be kind of secret they would call. Even guys who are on the street earning, they would own strip joints in my area,

them big money places. And later on in life, a couple of my friends would go in there and they would say, hey, listen, we got the dumpsters, whatever they used to say. And, you know, and they were no sooner walking out of the door,

the guy was in the phone would organize crime task force. So, I mean, all the years of my young years, I never heard of that as far as going in extorting legitimate people. But then when they started doing it in the late 90s and early 2000s,

that brought so much heat you couldn't even imagine. It was crazy. you know? Did you consider yourself a mobster? No, I mean, now. I mean, they say associate, whatever you want to call it, but what did you view yourself at as that time period? Do you think you're just like a normal? Like a hustler. I didn't hustle drugs or nothing like that. I was never, because you got to understand since kids, we were told, you know, I don't care if you hustle. I don't care if you

Shy Lark, which you loan money and you get so much back. Every good point, you know, $1,000, give me $40 a week until you paid $1,000 off. So we did that kind of stuff. But never, the drugs. I mean, I never personally did the drug business, but it was going on. You know, everybody did that. But we were told since kids, you know, listen, you can be around us, hustle, blah, boom, if you got to score, but with drugs, I was always told, especially by Bruno, you know, listen, you know, you do that, you know, you'll go right in a dumpster or you'll be in the trunk somewhere because they don't want that. It brings heat to them. And I know some do care. They don't care where it's coming from. Just give me on the side of money. But in my

particular case, they used to tell us, a lot of the guys used to say, listen, don't get around that stuff. Don't get us in a, you know, don't put heat on us. You're going to have a big problem. So I never really was into that drug business. Now, what were your principles as like a bookie? Did you have certain principles? Like if I came to you, if I'm like a young kid coming to you trying to place a bat, do you have rules? Well, yeah, you know, as we know, nowadays it's different because the government is really kind of working. nice crime now because especially Massachusetts, one of the last states to put sports gambling legal. You know, we were like one of the, you know, Connecticut got it, then we got it later on.

But so it's different now, you know what I mean? But, you know, the bottom line is we know who was who. If a guy made 400 a week working, you can't let him bet a thousand dollar game. So the only rules I had was a lot of my friends were degener gamblers. So if I knew the kid, was only making, you know, back then, four or five hundred a week. I'm not going to let them bet two games for a thousand a game. You know what I mean? They lose 2200. They make 400, you know, you know, so I kind of kind of watched it with like, you know, I know who was who. If a guy owned a pizza shop and he was making $30,000 a week, he wants to bet four games for $1,000 a game. Salu, do it, you know. But so that's the only thing I really had, you know. And I used to

watch, like, they had tricks, like the past post and like they tried to call you at five after one. Oh, I couldn't get through. And meanwhile, I had the little, we had little beavers at the time. They used to tell us the scores. And the team ran an 80-yard, you know, they were already on top seven points, you know. So a lot of people tried to do that. And what's the process, like from when someone gives you the money to you paying it up to your boss? How does that work?

Well, that, see, I just did the office. They have a guy that, in my case, they had a guy that went paid and collected. You know, I just did the office. And I would fax just like I had to clean out. people, they would clean me out. So it wasn't like they trusted me. Oh, yeah, just see me at four because, you know. But now it's completely different.

It's a great way. Well, they used to have a great way. But we used to have to fax the stuff to another office. And then every night when the games were over, you would call the other guy and you would go over. You'd have to have the same figures because at the end of the week, the clean-out guy would give somebody the figures and I would give my figures and they better match. Yeah.

You know? So, yeah, they had a good system. You know, and we used to do call forwarding where if they track the number, they might think I'm at, just make up a street, 32 Boston Street. Meanwhile, I'm already three fast forwards. I'm somewhere in another city, you know, because you could just fast forward, whatever, call forward. Yeah. So we did that.

But once they're on to you and they start following you, you ain't got a shot. So this is why they call it organized crime, right? Yeah, yeah. What do you think was the biggest misconception about the mob and organized crime at that point from the public standpoint. I just placed an order for the chef's choice factor meals, and I am so excited for them to come in. I am someone who is always on the go

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to start eating Factor Meals along with me on my journey. You know what it is? People that were around that, like not even organized crime guys, like families of Italian families. I came over from like different small areas, Queen of Jays, Italy. There's certain families that a lot of them from Springfield

were from them, Braggiano. know they were from certain little areas they would come their cousins the brothers they would all come and open pizza shops and everything and uh you know regular people joe you know i don't want to say joe schmose but regular people that didn't know about their life they were very oh my god you know who you know who's walking around with you know oh you see this guy eating with him i mean they used to get oh don't do but it you know the people that knew them from like the old country it wasn't like that like not in my area i mean don't get me wrong they got a lot of respect but it wasn't like we going around bullying people and it was nothing like that.

They show movies where, if you say something out of line, they crack you. I mean, it did happen, but not like the movies, you know. Were you ever put into any dangerous situations? What was like the most dangerous you were put in? Well, there was some dangerous ones, but I don't know. But, you know, like one time I'll give you an example. The kid was an up and coming at the time. He ends up becoming a boss.

And we used to go to a cigar shop every. every day and get cigars and he loves cigars and we'd go there have coffee have a cigar and the guy, this is just one small example, the guy at the place, uh, actually changed my friend's wife's truck tire. She had a flat. So he pulled over and changed the tire, which is great. That's fine. So we didn't know at the time, but for about five, six days after we went in there. Now, if you're married and I'm good friends with you and, uh, your wife has a flat on the side of the road, pull over, I help her change it. When I see you the next time, I'm going to say, hey, Ian, did your wife tell you, I changed

their tire? What is her to hide? Well, this kid never told my friend. It was like a secret, you know? And my friend waited, like two weeks he waited. And the guy never mentioned it. And the wife had said, oh, so-and-so helped me now. If you see the guy every day for scars, why wouldn't the guy mention, by the way,

I helped your wife? So right away, my friend thought, like, what's he trying to look to do something? Is he looking to maybe, you know, make a play at my wife? and I can remember he called me and another kid and him. It was like a Sunday afternoon. He goes, meet me over at that place. I go, what would happen? Just meet me over there.

And we went over there. And it was like two weeks. The guy never said nothing. And we ended up going over there. And he walked in and he told us outside. He said, so I'm going to crack the kid, you know, whatever, whatever. And we ended up cracking the kid. You know, we hit them over there with computers.

And the kid ran out of his own place. And needless to say, word went on the street, not because of me, but we went on the street from my friend tell him to sell the joint and just leave town because it ain't going to be good if he's, and the kids ends up selling the joint like very shortly after and took off to Boston somewhere

but that's just one thing. There was probably 10 things like that. All because he didn't tell. Right. Like in other words that's kind of sketchy, wouldn't you? It is. Yeah. But that's the way we thought then you know that's something, why wouldn't you say that? I know it's simple to a normal person. They're like, well, big deal. Now, is anyone messing with you

Or are you protected? No, I'm not going to lie to you. It was not like, oh, I'm protected. I didn't have to worry about being protected. We grew up with tough kids our whole life. So, I mean, there was cases we got in trouble where different, you know, guys, real guys like Bruno, would say, leave this kid alone.

You know, his father's my friend. But if the kid abused us or said something disrespectful, we didn't listen to Bruno. In other words, Bruno would say, hey, this kid told his father you're looking for him. Not to me. to generally all of us. And we'd say, yeah, we're not going to do nothing.

As soon as we've seen the kid, he got cracked, his head open, whatever, you know. So we got in trouble a lot of times for that. We got in trouble. And, I mean, funny stories. I mean, we thought they were funny, but one time we went, I didn't. But five of my friends went in to a bar, one of the wise guys owned. And there was a heavy kid driving a big Cadillac. And I'm a heavy kid, and I got a Cadillac.

So it wasn't me, though. You know, that night, it just happened to be another heavy kid with a Cadillac. Allegedly? Well, it's been more than five years. I don't care. But anyways, so we got in trouble. You know, they said, oh, these guys were there. They beat up the bouncer and the broke glasses.

And the fat kid was driving the Cadillac. So right away, that's chicky, right away in their head. Which it wasn't. I would tell you what's a big deal. And they called for us. They wanted to have a sit down. But they wanted to sit with us. They had enough.

We fought too many times in their bars. were going to crack us good. We were going to get a good one. Probably four of us. We were going to get it good. And we never showed up. We said, we're not going. We know what was going to happen. So we pack up my caddy now, it's really me. We put our bags in the car. We go to Fort Lauderdale. You know, I guess they call it going on the lamb, but we took off because we're not going to get at this time we're in our mid-20s, whatever. You know, we're not going to go there and get a beaten, you know, and you come in. It's actually funny looking back. You know, they're your buddies, hey, come on in. And they get you in and they shut the door and they're like,

you know, then they start, you know, like, you want to come out. Bang, bang, they start cracking you. So we said, nah, we know it's coming. So we took off to Florida for about a month, me and my two friends and they called, finally word got to us. No, come back. It's bullshit. They're done. They're not going to, they're not going to do nothing. And so with dummies, we came back and we ended up getting cracked. Well, I was lucky. I got out of it. So, somehow, but I was there, but they ended up cracking my friends. And then when they came to me, another serious guy in my area, his name was Anthony DeLavo, serious guy.

He knew me. He was good friends with my uncle. And he goes, ah, leave this chickie alone. You know, and I'm laughing under my breath. And one guy's got a nose broke. The other guy's got a big eye with blood. Another guy needs stitches. And I'm sitting there perfectly normal.

And now we're on our way home after that meeting, after the meeting. And we're laughing. We're joking. One guy's holding his eye, one guy's holding his nose. And they laugh. This is our thinking. And they go, listen, look at Chicky. He ain't got a mark on him.

Let's pull behind this building, give him a beating. So he looks like he got it too. And we all laughed. But that was our mindset. It was crazy. What do you think is like the craziest story you've had from being a bookie? Like absolute top out of everything out of all those years is a bookie. What's the craziest?

What I see personally, which was a smart move, the friend that came with me today, Anthony Grasso, who someday you should do him. I mean, he's got stories you want to believe. He ended up, you know, he was known in our area. Great kid, heart of gold, but he was known to be a degenerate gambler. That's just the way it was. And, I mean, if there was eight bookmakers in our area, he probably owed seven of them. I think he owed like $100,000 at one time between all the guys.

And he ends up taking up to go to Vegas. He borrowed $1,000 from somebody, ends up going to Vegas. I mean, you could do a documentary on this kid and left his wife, his kids. He just went. He had to get out of town. because they were looking for him. And he ends up going to Vegas, and on $1,000, as God is my judge, he gets down to like $250, $200 left. In one month's time, he turns $250 into $400,000.

He wired money to every guy he owed, and he didn't even have to give extra, but if he owed you $20,000, he gave you $24,000, just as like, hey, I'm sorry, but boom. And he ends up coming back, and after he paid everything, he had like $300,000 left over. and it was a crazy story because that's something like you just don't even if he would have lost that $200 left he's dead he said no he well he wouldn't have came back he said I would have been a waiter at MGM or wherever whatever casino's out there you know said I would have been a parking attendant you know how is you getting you know whatever but that was crazy what game did he play oh he's a sports guy he's a big sports guy he'll tell you a story he went to a boxing match he bet 40,000 on the boxing mask and uh it was some fight I don't know

I'm not a big boxing guy, but, you know, the guy got booed out of the ring, and he ended up winning, but a lot of people lost and they were throwing stuff at the guy. He was crazy. But he's got stories that's so funny. He was sitting around having dinner and sitting around with Lionel Richie, you know, because when you're betting that kind of money, you're in the top location. Especially back then.

Yeah, yeah. That's nuts. But he was funny. All right. So how does this all end? Like, how do you get wrapped up in a federal indictment? Did you know it was coming? I know we talked about the news article.

but I want to hear about like the day they raid you and and everything like that and if you expected it. All right. It was a late 2004. How old are you too? I don't know. I want to say maybe 20. It was a, I don't know, maybe 27, something like that. No, no, no, I'm sorry. My early 30s, 32, 33. Okay. And never forget it. I went out in the morning to get coffee. Well, what happened was about two weeks prior. I was at a member blockbuster the video place I was returning my kids movies they had some Disney movies I'm walking back to my car and I hear somebody go hey chicky they talk to you like they know you don't even know these guys where I go he goes hey chicky I turn around I go what's up I didn't know the guy he goes how you doing he gives me the card I'm a so-and-so FBI I go yeah what's up

he goes listen you got big problems coming you and your friends I go I don't know what you're talking about well I'm just letting you know you got big problems you know if you want to talk I said I got nothing to say I don't even know what you're talking about so these to say I took the card and I get in the car, and of course, I go somewhere right away to show somebody. I say, here, they just said, we've got big problems. You know, no one, oh, I don't listen to them. They just try to, you know, bus. I said, yeah, no problem.

So like three weeks later, I go out in the morning, 6.30 to get coffee and the paper, and I stop around my father's house. My mother and father at the time would live mild from me. And it's like 7 in the morning, and my phone rings. It's my wife. And I know it's seven in the morning. Something's wrong. So she's like, where are you?

and I go, why? What's up? She goes, there's about 20 federal agents here. They got the road blocked, you know, all the cars. So it was funny, I'm having a call from my father. So I said, can you drive me home? He goes, you got your own car. But I didn't want him to bring my car because then they search it. Not that I had anything, but why put myself through it?

So he goes, why what's wrong? I go, the local police are there. I'm making them feel good. The local police are there. They want to give me a warrant for parking tickets. Oh, yeah, no problem. Come on, get in. So, of course, I leave my money there.

I get everything done because I know I ain't going home. So I leave my car, I get my mother the keys. So I'm coming down the street and you had to see it. Look, I'm laughing now, but my poor father, right? And he's straight air all right. And I pull up and there's like, they're on the lawn. The doors, all four doors are open. You know, they make it like it's in a movie.

And his face, he goes, oh, yeah, local cops serving for Parkintons. What the hell's going on? I said, just drive me off. No, I'm going to wait. I want to know what's going on. I go, please, dad, don't embarrass me. me just drop me off I'm good and they took me into custody and we went to the fed they bring you right to the federal building and uh I had got uh four of us picked up a case one guy was the boss

bruno which he was murdered like six months before that in our in the club parking lot where we the Italian club parking lot he was shot five times they killed him and um so he was an uninicted co-defendant he would have been on the case and then the under boss at the time was my co-defendant. And the other guy was a good guy too, but he was just a normal guy that just got caught up. And yeah, so that was the big, the first FBI pinch. But it was just straight, my thing was straight sports booking with conspiracy and then no violence, no violence. You know, there's no violence really. I'm surprised they put you on with the big names, though. They kind of roped because it's a conspiracy. Yeah, it's a conspiracy. Did you get bond or are you

locked up? No, no, you wait a day or whatever and you get the, in federal. you don't got to come up with the cash. I guess it's a bond. Yeah, someone signed that house. Yeah, and that's what I told you, the story where I came out of the federal, snowing, it was a snowy day. I'm in a bright green Celtic sweatswood. I'm a big guy, so I stood out like a sword thumb,

and I got the prescription. These are a prescription, but I got a dark, I have an eye problem. Yeah. So I'm not trying to be like a big shot. But anyways, I used to have the glasses like that too, but that was the front picture I was telling you about, fat, chicky, rounded up, all this stuff they said. Remember I tell you that story.

So, yeah, we. We got bonded out and, you know, I ended up pleading guilty. And, you know, it wasn't a big, like, anything without violence, you're not going to do a lot of time. Is the mob like sitting down with you, though, and saying, hey, if you snitch, this is what happened. No, I mean, listen, they didn't have to say that. We knew. It's unspoken. Yeah, it's unspoken. We don't, nobody has to say that.

Plus, you've been hanging around with these people, five, six, seven years old. We already took pinches for solid battery dangerous weapon, a baseball bat. Another friend of mine got hit and had with an axe, not because of us, just fighting. So it was already unspoken since we were. six years old. I mean, at the time, you know, one of the times, well, actually, you know, it happened with Sammy Gravano, Sammy de Bo Grvino, rather than John Gotti. So it was already in our head and we used to talk to each other that low, you know, you say, you know, the way it is, you know, all this, I can't believe it, you know, it was our mindset. People talk like that until

shit hits a fan. 100%. What's your view on snitching? Listen, I would never, I would never do it. I would never personally do it. But then again, I'm not going to put myself in. a position where I got to go facing 30 years because I know I'd go do that I have to go do the 30 years so that's my message is uh you don't have to wait when the money's when the money's good everybody oh boom boom they want to do it but and they'll do they'll walk it right up I mean say what you want I know they say John Gotti senior was flashy he was and but I'll say one thing he walked it right to the end he knew who he was he smiled at the press he laughed he knew who he was and he knew at the end, you either got to die or you go to prison for life. And that's how it works. And he

walked it right to the end. People could say it was flashy. They could say whatever they want about the guy, you know, you're not supposed to be on Time magazine to cover. But the guy lived it and walked it. He walked it right, the way he lived, right to the end, strapped to a bed in Springfield, Missouri, a hospital, stroke cancer. I mean, there was a story that I heard actually from one of his sons that he told me that for last rights, the priest came in and said to the brother sitting there, the younger brother, we want to give your father last rights.

And then the nurse was with the priest, and the nurse said, we want to give him some more pain medication. Or he wasn't taking pain medication. They said, we want to give him pain medication. And he waved off the cop, on the upside of the cop, the priest, he waved them off. And the nurse said to his son,

this guy is in agonizing pain. Tell him this medication can help him. He waved her off. And then he winked at his son. And when he told his son to come closer and he said, no pain medication, truth serum. So even at his worst,

when he had literally days to live, he's telling him no, he don't want pain medication because he was afraid it could screw his head up. You got to respect that. Listen, they could say what they want about him, but he walked it to the end. And it is what it is.

And there's guys in there. I mean, in MCC Manhattan. I was only there a couple months, but I met a guy Vinnie Bacciano, and I brought his name up before. Woke up every day, did his work out. You look at the internet.

His pictures all over the internet. Now I think he's in Florida in a federal prison. Tan got two life sentences. He said, took it, took it, you know, there's guys out there that they do that oath, and they go right to their death with it. They knew what they were signing off. That's the point I'm trying to make.

listen, you know, you can hear like Sammy the Bull, John Goddy was going to turn on me. I mean, I know there's the tapes, but John Gotti wasn't telling Sam, if you really think John Gotti was telling Sammy the Bull, listen, the streets need the boss. You're going to take the wait and I'm going to go to, if you really believe that conversation took, you know, for true, come on. A guy, his whole life wasn't like that.

He was telling, but everybody has an excuse, you know, just say the truth. I mean, you know, I got hit with a life sentence. sentence and I'm I couldn't I'm not doing it and I think people would respect that more than all these excuses well this guy turned on me this guy whatever the reason is I don't know but see like that's why you have like you have all these people you see on social media nowadays when the rappers or celebrities get caught up there like oh if I was in their position I'd do the same thing and tell but these these people knew what they were getting into right you sign up for that show like the thing with my

whole business partner and stuff he was involved with me like you knew what you're doing you have plenty of outs. Like if you suspected something was wrong, that's when you get out. You don't do it. Yeah, not when the feds are at your door. Right. And you're trying to cut a deal and throwing your best buddy under. You know, you don't do that. Well, that's the message I'm saying. And I'm not, you know,

advocate anything. All I'm saying is when the money's good and you're living the life and you're getting a side table in front of a concert, whatever you're doing. Yeah. Come on. It comes a point where you're like, listen, I got kids now or whatever the reason. I got a nice wife or whatever. And I don't want to go do 20 years, 30 years. So I'm done. You know, you just, in a good way, you watch your hands say thank you.

And you can even be honest. Thank you so much. I'm good. And, you know, that could all be obtained legally. You don't have to get into crime to be rich. No. Well, nowadays, it's incredible the money you can make legitimately. Anywhere.

You can do anything. Back then, it was a hustle. Back in the day, people came from Italy, the police, you know, they didn't want to be police by, so they had their own little, but them days are over. I think it's just because also there wasn't social media where people could see other people be successful. Now I pull up Instagram and there's nine million successful entrepreneurs. You just got to study it. You got to figure out what you want and you'll find something. Yeah. How much time do you end up getting? Oh, for the bookmason case, I think they wanted to give me 16 months. I mean, it was nothing. 16 months, I think I did a year and a day. So you got a year and a day. Yeah, but no violence. You get into the violence. That's where you're going to get hit. And then there was different kids. cases where you know, the small amounts, you know, assault on battery as a kid, this, that, the other. And then, unfortunately, December 5th, 2019, you know, I happen to have a house, you know. Yeah, well, we'll get to that. Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying that's, yeah. It was good until then,

and then I just happened, you know. So, all right, so Chicky, you got this year and a day prison sentence in federal prison, your first federal bid. Something I'm curious about is what's it like to be someone that was known to be an associate of the mob in federal. prison. Because like what I did federal prison, we all knew the Italian guys had it good. So what's your experience like? Yeah, I mean, first of all, when you come in there, they kind of know, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong, they'll feel you out, but wherever I went, like I said, MCC Manhattan or U.S. penitentiary Canaan in Waymard, Pennsylvania, they were, you know, took me about maybe a half a day to find out what's going on and they'd come over to you the Italian guys will come

over and be like you know they see your number there was a couple numbers in federal prison like you know the three numbers that shows what state you're from and then they have another number that means organized crime they used I don't know about now like I think it was 087 I don't know what the number was but right away they know you know either your own people will come to you like people from Massachusetts It's in federal prison, as anybody that been in federal prison knows, that the boss, they call it a Boston car, the New England car. They're serious guys. You know, they got a lot of the Irish guys from Charlestown, South Boston.

I mean, anywhere in Boston, but, you know, and then you got the Springfield guys, you got province guys. So the New England guys kind of stick together, no matter what they are, whether it's bank robbers, whatever they are. You know, Charlestown's big for armored car heist and bank robbery. So they come right up to you, and they'll say, you know, I heard you're from Springfield. Yeah.

Then they'll direct you. They'll be like, hey, did you go see so-and-so? He's over there. He wants to see you. Another Italian guy from New York that I was in with some pretty guy, great guys. And then they'll come up to you and, hey, what's up? Where are you from Springfield? And they know, they're not stupid.

They know, Italian guys, no, what's what? And they're like, yeah, do you know this guy over there? And I'll mention it. Meanwhile, what they're doing is they're just kind of playing you because now they can get word to New York to somebody and say, hey, you ever hear of this kid chickies with bruno just say i'm giving a thing and they'll make a couple calls and within a week they're like hey yeah we heard about you laughing and we heard you're a funny bastard whatever it is and uh so it was for me i mean i'll be honest with it was very smooth you know what i mean you were taken care of oh yeah i mean not that i needed to be taken care of you know because

i was i go when i'm a gentleman i do my little thing and uh just concentrated on working out and i'll believe it i lost a lot of weight i came out like a movie star that's how everyone Yeah, yeah, I came out incredible. And needless to say, six months later, right back again, because you're enjoying life. Yeah, if anyone wants a good laugh, they could Google Ian Beck and see the images of how I used to look like. Now, do they give you like a care package when you're off in?

Oh, yeah, yeah. As soon as I came in, and I got a couple of funny stories, but as soon as I came in, you know, before they even check you out, they knew the name and a couple Italian guys came with two bags, and they're like, hey, shower, just to get you going. Because, you know, as you know, when you go in, you really don't get commentaries here for the first week, or two by the time everything transpires. And, oh, and of course, I said, yeah, no, you got it.

No, we don't need it. I say, listen, you know, and then I made a care package, and you gave it to them for the next guy who came in that they liked or whoever they gave them the bad to help them. So, too, whatever you need. So that was easy. That was nothing. And then it's crazy to say, and you'll know I'm telling the truth.

Anybody in federal prison don't tell you or any prison, you can make some really great relationships. I mean, you know, I made friends to this day, guys, I mean, good guys. Lifelong friends. And I'm now, one guy's in Hartford right near me. We go, the kids spend time, well, they did spend time together. And, you know, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my cellie, great guy from Connecticut, very successful now. And, and, and you can meet some good people. You really can. I mean, and then there's people like on the street. You'll tolerate them because they're in there

with you. Maybe they, they, to sell next to you or whatever. But as soon as you leave there, you don't even look, you know, I'll see you later, you know? Well, you know what it is when you suffer with people at rock bottom, that forms a connection. 100%. And only certain people can understand that because you have to be in that position. 100%. And that, like, it's an automatic bond. Right.

Yeah, absolutely. And then like the wives would become friends. And if they're from New England, they'd pick each other up and stay overnight in a hotel for Saturday. It's because it was only Saturday and Sunday visits. Yeah. And, you know, the wife would then better than by the time, like I said, compared to like my friend Brian did 18 years.

So, I mean, that's a whole other. thing. Now, did they have to check paperwork or no because you're mob-related? They wouldn't, they, I mean, I could have had my lawyer send it in, but I guess now, I never had a problem with that because they make a call or I don't know how they did it back then, but they know within four days, they knew exactly who I was or you did, oh, that guy, that guy, they knew everything. I'm like, wow. But if it came where I needed it, I would have had my lawyer somehow get me to paperwork, no problem. But now, today, it's easy. They Google you. They'll find out anything. You know, nowadays, it's easy. Now, you went to a penitentiary. Yeah, I was only, I was a penitentiary.

They had me, well, I started off, I needed medication when I went to, uh, because I got an illness through the military. I caught a neurological illness. And they couldn't treat me. So when I went, I was a self-report, organized, I mean, I'm sorry, sportsbook and no violence, self-surrender. So I surrendered to the penitentiary, USB. They had me there for one whole night. And then they asked you, with vacation you on, which I had sent them, they'd send you. And they didn't have it. And I needed it because it makes my muscles weak. So next thing you know, I'm in a sheriff's van driving at like one in the morning

from USB Canaan, Waymore, Pennsylvania, three hours away. They bring me to New York City metropolitan MCC Manhattan. And they had me there two months, you know, to, you know. Transit, yeah. So really my first federal thing, I started off, and that's where I met some, notorious great guys. I'm really laughing with the guys. I told you, Vinnie Bacchiano, great guy took me under his wing. And I was only there about two months. And then they put me back. They brought me back. I went through the, with the bus, the big bus, and you pull up in New Jersey

at the airport. And I didn't fly, but they had all the people load in the big jet to fly all over the country. And they took me to a van with like eight other guys to USB Canaan. And so I, and I end up back in Canaan and I'm in the penitentiary for probably about three, four months. And then because of no violence, which I probably should have just started there, about three months, then they brought me to the camp, which is right on the same property. Which is where you should have been the first. Yeah. I mean, come on.

But it didn't matter. I got along with everybody. But the camp's more laid back. I mean, you know, you're still in prison, but it's more like, you're not cells. It's a barracks kind of thing. But, you know, you're just with guys that either, some of the guys there were either. They're all white collar or a lot of bookmakers. Or it was notorious guys, not murderers, but like big cases of where they did already 28 years.

They had two more years left. They brought them down to the camp because nobody's screwed up after doing 28 years. You ain't going to ruin it, you know? Yeah. And there's no politics. No, no, no, no. Now, going back to the paperwork aspect for one second. Yeah.

What would have happened if they found out you were a rat or snitch or. or you are no good. Right. I mean, what they do is they shun you. I mean, obviously, you know that. It ain't, well, I don't know. First of all, I don't think, cooperators get their own unit.

Like, they've got a cooperation unit. Like, on MCC Manhattan, they had a floor for just cooperators, okay? And then they have other floors, like I was with everybody in 11 South. But there was a floor where they had, from what I understand, they told me, guys are in there,

were telling me, testified against me and I got 25, 30 years and that little, you know, whatever the little bastard is on the second floor, whatever floor was, the cooperators, you know, and they come in and like Sammy the Bull was there, you know, when he was doing testing, because he didn't just testify on on John Gotti. I think he testified on like 56 other guys. And he had a mark on this back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they got in trouble. A lot of people got in trouble for that because they went to Arizona, I guess, looking for them from what, from what social media says. But yeah, so, I mean, now nowadays, let's be honest, you know, if you're a cooperator, no big deal, you get out, start a YouTube channel and, you know, and you know what's crazy to me, maybe it's just me, but you had mentioned it before, you look at the comments and there might be one comment, you know, you bastard rat, whatever, but the other ones are, I love what you're doing, I love your work, oh my God, whatever, who it may be, you know, you've changed. And unfortunately, a lot of these guys didn't change. They really didn't. There are, there are,

are guys that change and said, listen, I'm done. I mean, you know what's a sad state of affairs when a boss, a legitimate boss, Joe Mazina, flips. He's a boss of one of the five families. And he flips. So, I mean, when stuff like that starts happening, I mean, like I said, I'm not saying, oh, give me 100 years. I'm a gangster. I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is the principles. I'm not going to put myself in a position where I'm facing 20 years or 30 years or 40 years. You know, it was getting to a point where it might have went to the next level. Yeah. And, you know, and I said, listen, you know, like I said, I root for the bank robber to get away.

But it comes a point where you've got to look at the mirror and say, come on, you know, is this crazy? I mean, you know. How are the Italians eating in prison? Oh, good, good. It was good. But like I said, once you get in there, me, my personal case, I was eating healthy. I was eating out on all the tunas, all the chickens in the pack. kids, wicked healthy, so I lost a lot of weight. And I used to laugh and say, I wish I could go

do six months now and take off 16 pounds. But, you know, we laugh, but, you know, but, um, no, they always ate good. I mean, you know, they would cook. I'm telling you, it's still amazing to me. They should, somebody, you know, I don't know if they've done it. Somebody in a prison system should write a cook book on how to cook in prison with the microwave because the things they used to do, it was unbelievable. I said, I couldn't even cook in a stove like that. And, you know, the Chinese people, excuse me, would cook the things. And it was crazy. And in Italians, clams with the macaroni.

I mean, we weren't eating like the, I know they have them, but the Roman noodles and all that. We weren't eating like that, you know, spaghetti. Then you would always have a connection in the kitchen. I used to send the kitchen ahead of the kitchen guy in his commissaire. I had my wife send them $100 a month, whatever it was, to give me like the turkey. I remember Thanksgiving.

I was in Thanksgiving and I paid the guy. It might have been four books of stamps, just say whatever they were, $7.85 at the time per book. He brought me a whole turkey. Real whole turkey wrapped up in tinfoil cooked and I put it on the table with me and like six, seven guys, we had it, we ate the whole turkey.

Beautiful. Whole turkey. People are looking, of course, you know, you see a guy looking, come on and have something, whatever, you know. My birthday in October, my friend from Hartford, myself, at the time, my cellie brings big cake,

looks like it was made in a professional pastry shop, they cooked it in the kitchen. And we would get the eggs. Like a lot of guys with protein guys would eat eggs and eat eggs. We'd get eggs. We'd get all the vegetables, all simple things, you know that you can't get.

You know how it is. You can't get it. Yeah, I used to always see the Italian guys not go in the chow hall because they would have somewhat on payroll to make it. In a year, a little less than a year, I bet you I went in the cafeteria,

whatever that little place where we ate. We didn't have to eat in the unit. We had a cafeteria. Yeah. I probably went to, I was honest with God, maybe three times in a year. Because you were getting taken care.

No, I'm talking breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I didn't go. Like in the morning, I'd have my tuna afternoon. You know, I had a routine. Yeah. And then at night,

we'd play cards. I wasn't a good card player, but they'd play cards and bust chops. And we'd have our, you know, get some dye of ginger ale or put out pretzels and whatever they made it like it was fun,

like you were out. Now, you were a natural born hustler. Did you hustle in prison at all? Did you become the bookie? Did you do anything? No, no. did that, but I just didn't want the aggravation. You know, yeah. I mean, you know, I would hustle

good the good food from the kitchen. Like I said, I was really doing good then. So, and I always looked out, like I said, when you brought up the bully thing, if a guy, you know, if I met a guy, not even a tiny guy, could be anything. I remember I met a guy from Maine, real country bumpking kind of guy, never had money to poor guy. He used to eat with us. And I'd say, listen, you know, my wife will throw a hundred bucks in your account here and there. You know, help the guy out. You mean, you, you know, like I said,

You can't eat in front of somebody in there. You know, you know they ain't got nothing. You're a solid guy. Yeah, I mean, I don't know about, yeah. No, I was, but I, yeah, I look, yeah. And then I played sports, believe it or not, I played, it was funny. I played on the touch football.

It was touch, but it might as well say it was tackle the way they play. You know, they play. And I remember a guy used to say, yell, used to scream across the field, maybe like 6, 5, 280, African-American guy, and he used to scream, I played for Penn State. You know, you guys, and I used to bust them. I'd say, I don't know about Penn State,

but I know you played for the state. pen like I'd bust them and uh he leveled me one time like I was the hiker and I would hike it a quick story and he hit me like I go buddy we're not in the NFL NFL over here relax and they would have all the gangsters from New York like the older guys one guy was like 85 years old great guy and he would see and we'd be yelling he'd yell at him you hit chickie like that again we'll put you in a trunk you know laughing though we did laugh around and uh but so I played the sport and I played the football. I wasn't great, but it was something to do. Everyone's calling you chicky in prison. 100%. Now, what is the craziest thing you've seen in prison during your one year?

Well, fights, a lot of fights, you know. Give me the best one. I want to hear the best one. Well, I know some of your people on your show guest, they got crazy. It went stabs and a guy head cut off. Everyone's stories different. Right, but I didn't see that. But I know one thing. When I was behind the wall for, like I said, not long, but when I was behind the wall, they were killing, they used to call it a gladiator school, Canaan, USP Canyon, you could look it up. They were killing guards and everything. It was no joke. But I didn't see it, but I'm just saying that's what it was known for. And yeah, mostly fights, like attempted, it wasn't, didn't happen for what he attempted stabbing. Guy would pull out of Shane and go like this and they would wrestle

them down at the end of it. But do you think if you weren't Italian, you would have had a much different experience. If you weren't associated with the crime families, that it would have been different for you? I don't know if it would have been different, but I mean, I'm my own self. Like in other words, you know, whatever, my name was Joe Smith. I still carry myself, not like a tough guy. I'm not saying that, but I got a good personality. And I, you know, I know, I know, even before I went just from small things, I knew the politics, small politics, don't get involved with the gambling and the drugs, which I never was anyways, but, you know, whatever. And I knew that. one funny story, I'll never forget.

It probably did help me that I was with the Italian guys, but on the commissary, they had a religious, where you could buy religious rosaries, and they had carpets. For the Muslims, right? I didn't know that at the time. So I figured, let me get a couple carpets, and you put it by your bunk,

and at night you take off your shoes, and you get a little feel in a home. So I'll never forget it. I buy two carpets, one for the front entrance and one for my, I was on the bottom bunk. And this head guy who was the Muslim guy, head guy, and he wore the thing, the head thing. So now it might have went a different way if I wasn't with the certain guys I was with, but he knocked very calmly.

So Mr. Chicky, they used to call Mr. Chicky, this guy, yeah, what's up, whatever his name was? He goes, can I speak with you? I go, yeah, absolutely. I'd go out and talk to him. Now, it could have went a whole different way, I think, if maybe I would, I don't know. And he says, you know the carpets? I said, yeah, ain't it nice? I put my feet, relax.

And he goes, that's our religion. and we pray on them. I didn't even think about it. I really didn't. And I'm like, oh my God, I go, I apologize. You're only like a commissary was Friday, maybe it was Friday afternoon right after I bought them.

So I rolled them up and I put it as a rubber band. I said, is it insulting? Can I give it to you to give one of your Muslim people that maybe can't afford it? And oh my God, thank you. I said, no, I apologize. But I didn't even think of that, but it's small little, I mean,

in some prisons I probably could have got you killed. I don't know. I mean, that's like the same thing when you go into a Muslim man cell like in the shoe or anything, you have to sit to pee or kneel to pee. There's all these etiquettes that you don't even think about on the outside world. People don't think about it. Yeah, like even going to the bathroom, the other one,

you say, you know, you don't do it. You try not to do it at night when you're both sleeping when you're locked in. You know, during the day I kind of had a little schedule where when he went to work because I worked in the unit. So I was around, you know, I could walk during the day. I could really do a lot of things. And they would have to go because, you know, you got to work in prison. They would work, say, up at wherever they made.

this or that, they would go out and a bus to work inside the prison fence, I mean, yard, wall. Absolutely. And so I would use that time and he would use maybe at, you know, whenever, when I was doing my thing, he knew my schedule. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm just saying where, so you get, well, you know, I knew pretty good politics, but this was a better, you know, you learn more.

Now, you get out of prison. Are you going back to work for the mob? How does that work? No, it wasn't. When I got out, you know, obviously probation, you got to really watch yourself. but then, you know, a couple years after, I was still hustling around a little with sports. With them?

Kind of with them, but without them. Like, in other words, they really didn't know what me, like my friends and me were doing things that could have got us in a lot of trouble, but at that time, it was a real weak point for them because the boss got murdered and the other bosses were old that were in prison.

So we kind of did what we wanted in the city. Who's going to say anything? You know what I mean? So we were loaning money out, you know, shy liking the people, you know, stuff like that, small amounts. You didn't want to go work like a regular job or anything. No, no.

And keep in mind, when I was getting in trouble too, I was retired. I was getting a hell of a monthly... From the military. You got that even while you're in prison? Yeah. Wow. The social...

Now, if you get Social Security, that stops in prison. But when you get a medical discharge, it's medical, they keep going. So you're good. Yeah, the social... I had a small Social Security, but that stopped in prison. But then as soon as you get out of prison, you go down to the Social Security Department

all I'm out, boom, it goes back on. Now, are you allowed to just leave the mob on your own terms? Well, I was never, I never took an oath. I mean, I was basically, you know, it was like I said, it was different in our area because I was around these guys my whole life. So it wasn't a matter of going to somebody.

Can I please do, you know, whatever, whatever. You didn't have to do that. You know, now I know if you're that next level or whatever you want to call it, it's harder. You know, you can't just, you know, it's hard just to walk away. But you can be a lot of, smarter but I was never at that that big level you know you lived a pretty quiet life and stuff

and just in retirement I guess afterwards yeah yeah yeah you know like yeah I mean I was around you know I did things not crazy yeah yeah I wasn't crazy but I did a lot of things you know and and like I said and then but did you do you think it was different because you didn't really feel like guilty about anything you didn't hurt anyone you know like no I wasn't like you needed to repent people I wasn't doing that or out like if taking advantage beating up a guy for no reason. I never was like that. You were who you were and it's not like in some scenarios that we talk about in the podcast where someone does like something outrageous, goes to prison, has to change themselves. Like you were your person, you were doing your thing. That's it. You took your time and that was it.

And don't get me, excuse me, don't get me wrong. If somebody disrespect me on the street, it was going to be handled. Not a tough guy, nothing like that. But in other words, I was known to be funny and bust boughs and laugh. Good time. But, But, you know, there was a couple instances, not crazy, but, you know, if somebody maybe is a little disrespectful in a bad way or something, you're like, hey, buddy, you know, I'm not a tough guy, but don't push it, you know. And there was times like that. No one ever abused me. You know, I mean, you know, not like that. Not because I'm a tough guy, nothing to do with that. Just, I was who I was, and I didn't do that to anybody anyways. I would never go disrespect somebody. I would never disrespect a guy's wife, girlfriend, sister. we were brought up around, you know, with our friend's sisters, and we were taught from a young age, you know, I don't care who you are. You don't disrespect my mother, my sister, my girl, my ex-girl.

You just don't do that. But not everyone has that mindset, you know? Isn't that crazy, like, the different backgrounds and how you're raised and stuff? Like, the average man, I mean, some men are just not going to sit here and say what you're saying now and then have those principles and stuff. I mean, I guess I'm just saying I'm better or worse than anybody, but I'm just saying And that's how it was raised old school. Do you think it's because you've experienced a lot too? Like you've seen a lot in your life. You've been around a lot of children.

And I've seen, don't get me wrong, I've seen friends of mine's, you know, sisters, you know, maybe another friend secretly was dating the sister when he could have just went to the kid and said, hey, listen, you know, in a good way, I really like your sister. Would you mind if I took her out? It's a five-minute conversation. Why wouldn't you do that? Yeah. Why would you feel like you've got to sneak around or,

like a man's ex-girl or ex-wife was totally off-limits. I don't care if she looked like a movie star and, you know, whatever. I just, we, me personally and a couple people around me now were like that, but, you know, in every batch apples, there's always one that don't care. You can't date someone's ex-girl. Yeah, or ex-wife, especially. That's the word. I hear you see these stories where like the husband passes away or something and then the wife's date and the brother.

Oh, forget it. Forget it. Is that like what happened with the Bidens or something? Oh, come on. It's crazy, man. It's crazy. It's just, like I said, we live in a world today that's just, I always say the people, and they laugh.

And I say, it's like we live in Alice in Wonderland. You know, the clock sings, all stuff that shouldn't be happening is happening. You're like, are you kidding me? You know, you walk through a little door. And it's like we're in bizarre world, in my opinion. On that note of bizarre world, you get wrapped up in another indictment. Yeah. The biggest one in East Coast history.

Yeah. What happens? Like, you weren't even a part of it. Like, you got bad timing. Yeah. Like, what happens? A family member, a nephew of mine, a 40-year-old Italian kid. They were serving FBI.

It was all over the news. It's called Operation Thrown Down. It's the dismantling of allegedly the Latin King and Queen Nation. And according to the FBI, allegedly, they had my nephew at the time. was one of the heads from Boston to Miami. And at the end of the day, I'll get into it when they came, but at the end of the day, it was pretty much a shit case. They made it out like it was Alchapo,

and when everything came out in court, it was a shit case. I think the one guy got seven years, and they had everybody who was going to go do 20 years. And at the end of the day, you know, it is what it is. It wasn't a big case like they thought. So, yeah, December 5th, 2019. four o'clock in the morning. Me and my nephew had a place together,

you know, a big place, colonial, beautiful section at Springfield called Forest Park. And four o'clock in the morning, you know, I'm watching the news, just happened to be up watching the news. My nephew sounded asleep in his room, and I hear the bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, loud.

And you know the only one it can be is the cops. It ain't going to be no guy trying to rob you, because it ain't, and it ain't going to be somebody knocking your door, somebody, you know, whatever. And I yelled, my nephew's name and he said what

and they only did maybe seven seconds and then they threw the flash bombs through the window the whole downstairs and then like when them go off I mean I went from watching TV and my boxers

it seemed like an hour later it was like four minutes later we're head to head with zip ties you know they were coming to serve of federal they arrested that day 65 members 500 over 500 law enforcement federal

state and local. They had the helicopter four in the morning with the light on the house. Two huge dog teams, whatever dog teams. And it was a huge, you know, it was back 2019. It was like alleged they say it was the biggest take down in history of East Coast. And you weren't a part of it. You were just, you were living there. Nothing to do with them other than having the same blood in my, right.

Are you like mentally sick at this point? You're like, here we go again. They told me. No, no, no, because I knew I wasn't part of it. And they told me, listen, we're not coming for you. We just let us get your nephew out of here. And you can, you know, we had two pit bulls and they've got the red lights with the lasers and the smoke everywhere.

I'm like, don't kill the dogs. They don't even bite you. They don't bark. And so they put the dogs away. And they, within 20 minutes from that, my nephew was out of there. And they said, here's the federal search one. We've got to do a search. So I said, do what you got to do, right?

and I'm hoping, you know, my bedroom was the last room they searched. So I'm sitting there like two hours, and they were telling me, the feds were like, hey, we followed you. There was a gentleman's club in my area called the Marty Grau. And we used to go there a lot, and the feds are telling me, hey, chicky, we followed you in the white caddy. You were coming out of the strip joint with a girl, whatever. And I'm like, why were you following me?

I got none to do with nothing. Oh, but, you know, whatever we had to follow you, whatever. And they're telling me where I went for a restaurant, for like months they were following. following me. And they had nothing on me. And so anyways, yeah, so my room's the last room. And then I thought about it. I go, boy, I'm in trouble now. I didn't know the law or nothing to me. I had a Smith and Wesson, Smith and Wessons in Springfield. I had a legal, not legal to me, but it wasn't like a gun used, no bodies, nothing like that. Allegedly. Just was alleged. Well, no, it was

checked out. Believe me, they checked. But they found a gun, a loaded revolver behind on my nightstand. I mean, when you're around that life, especially, you know, with my, my nephew at the time, you know, nobody was coming in the house, you know, there was going to be a fight as far as, you know, I had something, I ain't going to lie to you. And they found it. They found it. And I was a convicted felon. I shouldn't have had it. But I didn't know. My, thank God, my lawyer had looked, knew about it. But he's like, if this gun, if comes back clean, just a gun, but I know you're not supposed. I couldn't do it because my previous sports bookmaking conviction.

Yeah. So I guess federal law, I mean, you can talk to any lawyer. The gun was from Springfield Mass, Smith and Wesson. So they couldn't prove the gun left state lines. So they charge you with ammunition, okay? Ah. Right. But so, you know, if anybody lives in a state where they got a gun factory,

carry that kind of gun, if it's a federal case. Now, if the city police or state, whatever, state or state or state or state or state, city police would have came it could have been a I would have ended up doing probably four or five years you know for that but because it was a federal case federal law says and at the time I'm saying well I got I'm looking to go do four or five that's what I'm thinking because they had me locked up in Norfolk County jail they took me that was a whole other thing and uh from what I'm understand they went into a documentary on that whole operation thrown down supposedly but I you know whatever but um because it was so unique the case but uh yeah so they ended up arresting me

me and they took us. I was on the bus with all the alleged Latin King guys, which I knew since they were kids because I'm older than my nephew. And he used to have them over the house all the time. They were his friends. Not that they were doing gang things, but these guys grew up. My mother used to cook pasta for them and, you know, Spanish guys, good guys, a lot of good guys. Unfortunately, you know, just got in trouble. So they end up put me in Norfolk and I made $30,000 bond, you know, because they know he has nothing to do with it. But so I got out of the same. a $30,000 bond and I ended up, they took back my bond in right before COVID in January, end of January 2000, 2020, I'm sorry. And they put me, they locked me up at Wyatt.

Yeah, Wyatt. Wyatt. White. The Tennessee. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. So I was there for almost three months. And my lawyer said, well, we're going to go to the judge and we're going to reget you back out on your bond because they said there was no reason they had me there. There was no reason I didn't nothing. They couldn't tie me to anything. But what happened was COVID had just hit and the courts closed. So something I should have been there a couple of weeks until they reissued the bond. I was there three months. But the three months at the end when I pleaded guilty, it came off, you know, at the end of the day, I got an illness from the military. So my lawyer did a great job in Boston in front of the judge. They wanted to give me like a year and a half for the ammunition, convicted

felony ammunition. And my lawyer gave the argument, well, at the time, Massachusetts, wasn't legal to gamble. So he says, Your Honor, you know where this is going. Pretty soon we're going to be legal. So basically, the kid didn't do anything wrong, but she said, well, we're not there, Mr. Hagan. My lawyer is Dan Hagan. We're not there, Mr. Hagan.

So he gave the argument that if I go to prison, it would have been a federal prison. Maybe they would have kept me on Wyatt. I pleaded guilty and they said, my lawyer argued, you know, this, dad, they want to give a year and a half. I had three or four, with the time of the being, I had about four months, three and a half months credit. and he explained that he did some research where my illness could, if I get COVID in prison,

within my health conditions, it could hurt me. So I'll make a long story short, they end up giving me house arrest, you know, instead of the jail time. So if I would end up with a year, they just put me a house arrest where I couldn't leave the house and monitor bracelet. You're on the ankle monitor and everything like that.

Yeah. Yeah. And I swear my friend that's here with us today, Anthony, was in the court. So right away, my lawyer says, we're going to, I think we're going to get this house arrest. And as God is my judging you and I said, get me the year. Because now in my head I'm thinking I'll go do a year, lose a ton of weight,

and I'll come out looking great. You want to eat all that Italian food. Because I didn't, well, I didn't know that I thought it was going to be tortured. They're going to look to violate me every, so I said, let me go do the year. And, you know, this is what I'm thinking. And my lawyer says, listen, anytime you walk out of federal prison without jail, it's a win. And, you know, of course, he was right. I wasn't thinking right.

And so I ended up doing it. I just got off it last this April. Has that made you think about things even more, like thinking who you hang out with, who you associate with? 100%. Listen, there's a saying all of the Internet, a lot of these shows that do successful. Say, show me your friends and I'll show you your future.

And now I know that more than that. I went from having 100 people friends, or maybe I got five now, but. You only need a few good friends. That's it. You could take, like that guy says, that funny guy here. Joey Diaz. Yeah.

You can give me three bad mother efforts and you can take over our country. But, you know, it's just... You remind me of him a little bit. No, geez. I wish I had his... I could be comedy like to make the money. Now, what's your message to, like, the kids and even the young adults or even grown adults that

find it fascinating, like, mob life, crime life? And you've lived this. You grew up in that position. To a certain extent. Yeah, to a certain extent, allegedly. Yeah. But you grew up, like, idolizing these people. Absolutely.

What's your message to them now that you know everything you've been through everything you've seen? Listen, first. first of all, don't go watch movies and think that's the life because you're not seeing the part where they bust your door down and your wife is crying and you don't see your kids and all that, which thank God by no means it might be a Mr. Hard Guy. I didn't do a lot of time. I really didn't. But I knew enough where, well, I was lucky too. But when you get into the violence, when you've got bodies and the conspiracies, you're going to get hit hard. So really my message is it ain't what you think it is. And I'm blessed enough to be honest with you that I didn't have. have to face a 25-year prison or, you know, whatever, whatever the sentence would be. I didn't have to go through that. But I also knew I could be doing things right now. I'm off everything. But at the end of the day, it ain't worth it. I mean, at my age, it ain't worth it. Maybe these kids are 20. But even the gangbangers, I'll tell you, I was in the gang unit at Wyatt. And I had all the guys

around me, the allegedly kids. And I knew them since they were young teenagers. So they're really, And like I said, that's another thing. And Wyatt, they told me I had the Italians there from Boston, too. So I had two tables to sit at. The Latin King said, you sit with us and eat. The Italians would say, you sit with us and eat. So I'd chop it up. I go for breakfast and lunch with them and Italians at night.

And they were weird because they were looking at me like, how, why are these guys? Like when I came in, not to go off the subject, when I came into Wyatt, they opened that big, the door slides open. And I'm going in there and I got my bed and all the stuff. And all of a sudden I hear, try a day. And the big Latin kid, allegedly Latin King, this kid, Apache, gentleman, tough kid, comes walking over. And all this manish kids start hugging me. And the Italians are like, what's going on here? Because they didn't know the background.

And then anyways, make a long story short, I got along with, they had me there. You're a likable guy. Yeah, well, not everybody will agree with that, but I hope to people come off like that. What are your like three biggest life lessons that you want to, still in your kids, into the world and in general. Like people listen to this, watching this right now. What are the three takeaways? Change is possible.

100%. Change is possible. You know, what you think, as far as certain lifestyles, what you think is really happening, what's really happening, the seat, the 16-faced bullshit back and forth, they don't see that part of it. They watch casino when everybody's eating

and girls are in the car. They don't see the part where, like I said thank God I never was in this predicament but it's your best friend that walks you into a room and you don't come out so it's it just just be care like in other words change is possible don't don't believe everything you see on TV where you think it's wonderful because you're not seeing the bad part of it you know maybe some movies but not really and just just being and I'm not going to lie to you I mean I had a lot of years where I was not a good person you know I did things not crazy like violent things but I did things uh you know

robin this that the other thing money from listen it's just that change is possible and uh just try to be a good person you know what i mean uh you know you don't have to go crazy but just be nice be nice to your fellow mankind uh i mean two seconds open the door for people i mean once you start hanging around with positive people and people that are doing the right thing it's like a whole other world and don't get me wrong i got still close friends that and i'm you know allegedly they're still in the life They see me. We go, you know, like I said, I used to, you know, whatever, parties and hugs and laugh about the old times. And the most important thing is for me, personally, my daughters can walk anywhere they want in the city with my grandkids and they're

respected. It's not like, all your father's a scumbag. All your father's a cooperator, whatever. And that happens a lot, you know, with people when they do that. But so to make a long story short, it's just that be positive, be nice to people. Think, you know, and I'm a, I'm a product of myself because I did a lot of. of crazy things. And looking back, I'm like, oh my God, I was so embarrassed. How could I do that? So as time goes on, I'm 55. It took a long time to start thinking this way. But since I've been thinking differently, it's a whole other world. Things have opened up, you know, other than me trying to lose weight. It's hard. But that's my biggest worry now, you know? And I'm at the beach a lot,

and I'm by my pool. So I'm blessed. I'm blessed. Like I said, I'm very blessed. Are you more conscious now than ever of being a good person and giving back. 100%. 100%. And another thing is a very important message. Small things matter. If you're married or you've got a girlfriend,

don't take it for granted. I mean, I took it for granted all through my 20s and 30s. And at the end of the day, I'm blessed with great daughters and everything, but, you know, it wears you. And at the end of the day, you know, if you're not conscious of what you have when you have it, when you lose it, you're going to wake up realize. You know what I'm saying?

You know what I like about you, Chicky, is that I got, a ton of emails and DMs daily from people that want to come on the show. And they're giving me the highlights of like what they did in the craziness and this and that. And you, you know, you reach out to me or I reach out to you and you reach out to me. And the first thing you said was, listen, Ian, like I have all these crazy stories, this and that. But I want this to be, I want the message to go out of why this is important. I think a lot of people don't get that. And that's also why we're so different as a podcast and a show because it's got to have that

inspirational, motivational factor. It's not like what you search on YouTube where it's all violent, the crime. You could go on any YouTube channel and talk about that. You got guys out there doing a podcast. I killed three people two days later. I killed 10. The same guy. Did you kill three or 10?

You don't know eight, seven, eight more bodies? I mean, and it's all about, I've changed, but I shot a guy with his head with a bat. Have you changed? Talk about change. Yeah. I mean, I could tell you, if we had two more hours, I could tell you 100, but it's not a about that. It's about don't wait until it's too late to change. And I'm trying to, every day I'm

trying to improve better and better. And people could look at your story and it's back to the what if thing. Like if I'm listening to your story, I'm like, well, what if he decided to take it to a new level? His life could have been over. So it is important to think about those in some aspects. Right. Absolutely. And like I said, I'm not going to get into this story. It's a big story. But when they killed our mentor, which was Adolfo Big Al-Brunon, people can Google it out of Western mass. It was huge. It was huge. And, you know, unfortunately, the kid who was part of it, you know, was kids with us with him. And, you know, he wanted to be, well, whatever, whatever the reason, I can't answer for him. But, you know, at the time, if he, if Bruno was out of the picture,

he's the big honcho now. So for whatever reason, it's none of my business. But when that guy got killed, our guy after a Sunday night card game, you know, it was like, it ain't been the same since. anybody tells you differently he's lying to you not in our area yeah and uh it was just a shame it didn't have to happen and but you know like i said we're here now and he's not so i mean he's got a great family i would very good friends with his sons but it's just it's a terrible at the end of the day if you're either going to end up dead or in jail doing life or like the government hopes you do you cooperate now last question for you yeah how did you get that scar car accident car accident You heard that out.

There's no crazy stories on. No, I would, well. You didn't get shanked. How I lived, how I lived, I mean, how I lived through the car accident? That'll be for part too. That's a crazy. Yeah, that'll be part too. Chicky, thank you for coming on the show today, man. Thank you for having you.

It's been an absolute pleasure. I appreciate it. I appreciate having you. You're a gentleman. Thank you. You got a great production team, and it was an honor to come up here. And where could people find you? Do you have social media or anything?

Well, you know, like I said, I'm going to be starting a YouTube channel. I can't really, I don't know the name of it. I was thinking about, I don't want to say the name, somebody who will download and keep it. But I'm on Facebook. I'm on Instagram under Chicky, two underscores. Oh, too. Chichitelli, my last name.

Well, I had a. Somebody took the one underscore. Most people to use what. Yeah, well, somebody took my name under that one. But I'm the real one is Chicky, two underscores, and my last name, you put it in your description, and Facebook. And, you know, I have fun. I put up crazy things, whatever's in my mind.

So when you go on there, after about halfway through, you'll be like, oh, this kid's nuts. Yeah, we'll put you at the bottom of the episode and whatnot. I appreciate that. And like I said, yeah, I got some, and the movie's coming out. That's going to be good. The featherweight. Probably within the next year it'll be out. And like I said, James Madillo, Leonardo DiCaprio's APN way, his production company, produced everything.

And other great actors in it. So that's big. The movie star, man. Well, I don't know about movie star, but. I'm telling you, the next big gambling movie, I'm going to see you instead of John I don't know about that. But like I said, I take it as it comes. And like I said, I know we're on time thing. But once you start being around positive people and you start changing your life, it just gets better and better and better. And I'm a testament to that. So that's about it.