Locked In with Ian Bick - Breaking Bad’s Walt Jr. on Crime, Fame & the Show’s Dark Truth | RJ Mitte

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

RJ Mitte, who played Walt Jr. on Breaking Bad, opens up about getting bullied as a kid and how acting helped him find a way out. In this exclusive interview, he breaks down how he landed the role of Walt Jr., what it was really like filming Breaking Bad, and how closely the show reflects real-life crime. We also talk about how his character mirrors the families of real criminals, where Walt Jr. would be today, and whether the show glamorizes the very world it portrays. This is a must-watch for Breaking Bad fans and anyone who’s ever questioned the line between entertainment and reality. #BreakingBad #RJMitte #WaltJr #TrueCrimePodcast #ActorInterview #CrimeAndTelevision #BehindTheScenes #lockedinpodcast Connect with RJ Mitte: https://www.instagram.com/rjmitte/?hl=en Hosted, Executive Produced & Edited By Ian Bick: https://www.instagram.com/ian_bick/?hl=en https://ianbick.com/ Get 50% off the Magic Mind offer here: https://www.magicmind.com/IANB50. #magicmind #mentalwealth #mentalperformance Presented by Tyson 2.0 & Wooooo Energy: https://tyson20.com/ https://woooooenergy.com/ Use code LOCKEDIN for 20% OFF Wooooo Energy Buy Merch: http://www.ianbick.com/shop Timestamps: 00:00:00 R.J. Mitte's Rise from Bullying to Fame 00:04:37 The Impact of Realism in "Breaking Bad" 00:10:14 RJ Mitte's Early Break into Acting 00:15:39 Changes in the Acting Industry 00:21:02 Lessons from My Grandfather: Handling Confrontation 00:26:23 Embracing Vulnerability for Creative Opportunities 00:32:01 The Journey to the Set: A Young Actor's Experience 00:37:54 Basic Human Decency and Anarchy 00:43:05 Breaking Generational Cycles and Positive Influences 00:48:29 The Influence of Walter White's Character on Viewers 00:54:30 The Influence of Mob Movies and Music on Youth 01:00:33 Future of Walter Jr.: Making a Choice 01:05:33 The Impact of Breaking Bad on My Career 01:10:55 Life as a Child Actor on Breaking Bad 01:16:25 The Duality of Walter White: Walter vs. Heisenberg 01:22:09 Redemption and Change in Prisons Powered by: Just Media House : https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Creative direction, design, assets, support by FWRD: https://www.fwrd.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Happy celebrating. I had this pizza hut, dude, now I got my door. And he's like, yo, yo, you're the dude from Breaking Bad. He's like, yo, you changed my game. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes, no, no, no, you don't get it, man. He's like, I sell. And now I, like, run it all through this pizza shop.

And no one knows you got to order a special pizza. Can I hook you up? I'm like, dude, get out of here. My mom's coming to the door. I'm like, I'm like, please get me my pizza and get out of here. R.J. Middy was bullied as a kid and never imagined he'd become a household name playing Walt Jr. in one of the most iconic crime shows of all time, Breaking Bad.

In this raw conversation, RJ opens up about how the show changed his life, how closely it reflects real life criminal families, and whether it glamorizes the very crimes it portrays. We also dive into where Walt Jr. would be today and how RJ overcame the pain of his childhood to become a voice for others. RJ, thanks so much for coming out here. I know it was a long Uber ride to get here, but I appreciate you coming, man. Dude, such a pleasure to be here.

They actually was a super easy drive, to be honest, and we had a cool driver who was whipping it through all the traffic. Yeah, having a good driver in an Uber is makes or breaks it, you know? You know, especially for long drives, because it was about, so I'm in Long Island right now with the Stony Brook Film Festival. So I have a movie, that screening there, and we just did Tribeca, so now we're in Stony Brook, But a really cute town up in Long Island and a good team of people. And I really like this project a lot. And we actually shot this project in New York. It was over in the Hamptons.

Oh, awesome. And so it's a local film, local community, all New York-based. And I enjoyed it. It was such a blast. Yeah, I have to admit, I was a late bloomer to Breaking Bad. Like, my friends loved it all in high school. And I graduated in 2013, so that was, like, right at the peak and the finale and everything. Yeah.

I, you know, it's funny. I watched it when I was awaiting trial, like, at home. And I was, like, in a bad spot and just had all this time to binge stuff. I didn't really have anything going on except running the club. Yeah. And I binged it in, like, a week I watched every single episode. Absolutely loved it. And it's so cool, like, where life takes you to be able to, you know, watch something like that, you know, 12 years ago now

and then to sit across from you all these years later in a whole different life, you know, it's interesting. This world is a wild world. Thank you, man. I really appreciate, you know, I think the show has grown more since then. I think the show is bigger now than it ever was when we were all in the air.

And, you know, it really does have a life of its own. And I don't know if you watch it recently, but I was just talking to someone about this, about watching shows in stages of your life. and like what resonated to you then, to what resonated now. And I was talking to someone was like breaking bad. And it was like when they were watching it, it was like they were going through a rough patch

and they were like really Heisenberg Heisenberg all the way, right? He's the coolest. And then they rewatched it when they were older. And they were like, well, he's actually not so cool. Like that's not the life that I want for myself. And I think media is a great tool for that of inspiring people in moments, what they're going through and how they're living, to then revisit it and see like, oh, I am a different person than it was then.

Yeah, I mean, I think I look at it so differently now, too, because I've interviewed so many people that were exactly in, you know, Walt's position, which is now, like, the insight on all of that years later. and just the family members of it and all of those perspectives. You look at it so much differently, so I should probably even go back and rewatch it just to see that. Check it out again. Yeah, no, it really is one of those,

you know, I find shows that have meaning, especially with like the content that Breaking Bad had, you know, in the beginning, people did not like the show at all because of the meth content, because of the whole family dynamic. And in the beginning, people were very much like, you're glorifying meth. You're, this is, this is, and in reality of the show, it's like, look at what this guy is, like,

actually doing. He's losing his family. Every step further into this role, he's stepping away from the man he was to this monster he becomes. And I think being able to have shows that have realism and, you know, breaking bad was one of those shows that we had such an amazing writing team. But we also got a lot of insight from D.E. and local police departments and insight into these worlds of that type of industry.

So RJ, where'd you grow up? Where are you from? It's a little complicated, man. So I grew up between Texas and Louisiana. So my mom sides from Texas and my dad sides from Louisiana. And they divorced when I was like two months old. So I was always going back and forth between the two. and I was living in Houston, Texas at the time.

My grandparents on both sides of my family were very sick. And we were at a water park, and an agent saw my sister. At the time, she was like one and a half. And this agent was like, hey, I'm in the middle of casting for this Luso Ball campaign. And I'm looking for a baby Luso Ball. And we're like, what's going on? and they're like we want to hire her she's perfect for it

um it was six months in california uh we'll pay for you all to be there and at the time my mom was kind of sick as well she uh right after my sister was born a few months after she was in a car accident and was uh partially paralyzed for about seven years so so in that moment of time we were like we can use a paid vacation and so my mom said yes to the job and that's what brought us to California.

And then I spent 15 years in California. And I'm actually back in Texas now with a project that I've been working on since 2014. So did your sister continue the acting career? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, she's more of a singer now. She's been working on a few songs. She's in the middle.

She's actually in L.A. right now, writing music. And she's 21. Like, so no pressure on her. It's kind of like where I'm very much like look lace. If it, if follow your passions, you know, like, and for me, it was more of like, I started acting to keep, like, meet kids my own age and make money. Because if you're in L.A. and you're not making money. It's like living in New York not making money. It's hard.

But, you know, she still works. She still does stuff. And so we're a very tight-knit family. Me and my mom and my sister were extremely close. and, you know, I'll always be there for them. Did your family see an acting career in you as well once your sister got casted in that? So the way that that kind of happened was, is like, we all went to L.A. right, for this universal role, this Lucille Ball universal role.

And so if you're in L.A., and the world's very different now than it was in 2005, 2004 to 2006, right? Like no social media. Like the industry was different. The media was different. And I'm a firm believer. If you live in Los Angeles and you don't go to school, you don't join a gang and you don't act,

why are you there? And so I did what everyone did. I joined the gang. It's called SAGAFTRA. And you really just started doing it to meet kids my own age. And I recommend, I tell everyone this, like, if you want to get into acting, if you want to, like, if it's something that you're passionate about, extra work. Like, I can't stress that enough about, like, people are like, extra. I don't want to be an extra, like, blah, blah, blah, I want to speak.

And it's like, it's not just about the speaking roles, you know. Breaking Bad was one of my very first speaking roles ever. And I really think I was able to to rise to the occasion because of my previous work as an extra. working on professional sets. So within my first couple of months being in LA, you know, I was doing the acting classes and learning and simultaneously signed up for a background company and started doing extra work.

And I was on shows, Han Montana, Airby H. Chris, Weed, Seventh Heaven, Joe Bit Taylor, epic movie. Like, I was on major productions as an extra. And it really gave me insight to the, types of projects in the process of these projects. And now later in my career, I've worked on many different types of movies. Some were amazing and some were like, a little rough. Um, as far as like just funding, quality, having the time to be able to grow a character and having the time to do it. But as an extra, if you listen to what you're told, if you're, if,

if you don't make a ruckus and you observe what's, happening around you, it's the best acting class you can ever have and they pay you. Now, the way you're describing that early beginning of your career, one would think you were like in your late teens, early 20s, but you were really just a kid, not even what, eight years old at the time? No, no, no, no. I was, I was like 12, 12, 13, and then I booked Breaking Bad 13 turning 14. Okay, so you're 13 years old. I mean, I was definitely, I seemed a lot older than what I was, let's just say that. And were you just so passionate about it, or do you feel like you were pushed into that?

I'm passionate about everything that I'm involved in. Like, anything I, and I've kind of always been that way. You know, I started working with my uncle and my grandfather on my mom's side very young. always volunteered with the church, always, always, you know, disaster relief, living in Louisiana, part of the time, you know, hurricanes and volunteering time and carrying, you know, redoing roofs and digging out stuff. And, you know, I always, I always grew up with a hardworking mentality. And my parents on one side, we know, they no longer have it, but I had a farm on my mom's side and a ranch on the other. So either way, I was working.

And so I just really, um, um, um, really just always, anything I put my hands on, anything that I'm involved in, um, I only pick things I believe in. Uh, I only choose my projects and, in my jobs and things that I know I can contribute to. I don't really find myself that if, if I can't contribute and if I can't make it better, I'm not the person for it. And so, in reality, was I kind of pushed into it? Yes. But it was my choice. You know, when my mom got paralyzed, I was around 11. And I remember, like, my mom, you know, my mom with my sister at the time, she had hyper-emesis, single mom. And so it was a really rough pregnancy.

And I was coming off of that to that. than her getting hit by a car. And I remember just being like, look, we're going to make it. Like, I'm going to put in the extra effort now. And luckily, my grandparents were very close by on my mom's side. And then my other grandparents on my father's side were very supportive, just in moving forward of things. And I just remember there's, I find there's a day that comes for people in your life. Every person gets that day where they have to choose to be an adult and they have to make that decision.

Sadly, sometimes it comes earlier than you would like as a growing person. But for me, I kind of always had this mentality of moving forward and doing what is necessary and always putting myself into a position to help. And so right after my mom was in that car accident and she had many surgeries over the years, It took her seven years to recover. And only actually this year recently, I've seen my mom healthier than I've ever in my whole entire life. But that day came where I was like, okay,

either I'm going to be a child and do childish things, or I'm going to take this responsibility. Like, we're going to make it. We're going to, like, we can do this. And, like, we just got our first home. We just got our first townhouse. It was like kind of the first time we lived independently from my grandparents. And it was like, I'm not losing my home.

And this is 11, 12 year old RJ Middy saying this going like, I'm not losing my home. Like we just got this place. Like we can do this. We can survive. And so when it came to this opportunity for my sister, it just elevated me into going like, okay, let me double down on it. let me let me let me let me put my effort in and go take these jobs and go do the auditions and go survive and like eventually our plan was to go home like our plan was not to spend 15 years

in california or or create a career off of this it was oh we're going to go do this event and it just kept unfolding and the event never stopped was it common for kids your age to pursue acting to the level that you are pursuing it um i i do um i you know i think there are there are kids that are very passionate about acting and that you know the kids that were like i want to be on tv i want to be i want to be like that person or this person and then you have other kids are like where it's more of like parents were in it or they want their kids to do that and so i find there's there's there's a couple of different ways of mentality. But in reality, you're a child.

You don't know. It's like getting your first job. I look at acting as, I look at acting as something that, like, I look at it as any other job. I don't look at my job as something special. You know, anyone can do what I'm doing.

Anyone, anyone can be on a show. Anyone can do that. It's about maintain. it and it's about cultivating it where it's conducive for you and who you are as a person and i i find that the acting industry itself now it has changed you know it's it's it's with the pot with podcasts like yourselves and in media and streaming and social media and socialites and you know you used to have to kind of have money or have a connection or like just really driven to to do it and now we have it at the tips of our fingers where I feel that there's more of a surgence of people

that at any moment could be cast in a role that's just going to pop you off and so I um I really think it's your environment I really think it's your mindset and I think it's kind of you know situational and especially at the time in 2005 um it was just a different world it was a different type of media. And I think it... So why didn't you just rent a truck and move yourself? Once was enough. Smash dishes.

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Were you surrounded by like-minded kids in school? Did you take a liking to them because you believed in similar interests, or do you feel like you were the lone wolf? You know, I always had friends. You know, and I still have friends from Louisiana, friends, friends from Texas that I grew up with. kid. I was one of those kids, though, that was always in and out of school with family health

and work life and even before acting, having to navigate that and then moving a lot. You know, I feel over the past, I'd probably say six years now has been the most stable existence that I've had in my life when it has come to like just work life balance. And so I'm, I was mostly a lone wolf. Not really, though. I really had a great support system and in the most weirdest ways about it.

You know, you think the support system comes from your family, but it doesn't always. And so for me, I really kind of blended my family and then my chosen family, the family I picks, that I'd bring into my life. And, you know, again, having a one, a two, a three-year-old at home, my sister, and then my mom being partially paralyzed, it wasn't like I was, you know, it's like, oh, RJ's going to go playtime. No, RJ has to go home because I have my mom and my sister at home that, you know, need me. And so, for lack of a better term, sadly, there's a lot of kids that are like that in this world

that are like, they go to school and they have to take care of their grandparents or they have to take care of their mom and they have to take care of their siblings. And it's a very common story that you just never hear about. And a lot of those kids just never get the opportunities. And luckily for me, I was able to get an opportunity

and make the best of it. Were you bullied at all? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's part of the game. I mean, I'm still, I'm still bullied today. You don't even know, man. It's a different type of bullying, though. We just don't call it bullying as an adult. We call it strategic, strategic development, I guess. I like that.

Some, I don't even know. I just made that up. I feel like it's more powerful now as an adult because you need that to fuel engagement and all of that, you know. But back then, it's a lot harder. especially in an era where there was no social media. And you didn't realize it's, now I feel that people are more realizing it's like, well, I'm not the only one that faced that, you know? Like I had my hand broken.

Like, I was always the new kid. Like, always the new kid. Every, like literally sometimes twice a year. Because I would leave school. We'd move someone with sick or dying. And so we'd moved to that area to go help with him. and um and um and we i would go spend the next six months at that school and then as a kid i would get pneumonia like all the time every year i'd get it like once a year uh where i would spend like three

four months in the hospital with pneumonia um so i would be out of school and then so i would come back to the school like and everyone would be changed or older i have new friend groups and so i have to reintroduce myself into like hey guys i actually go to this school And I'm like, we've never seen you here. And I'm like, yeah. And so I learned though a long time ago, both of my grandparents were really big role models in my life. And my grandfathers were really big in, like, role models for who I wanted to become.

And so one was partially paralyzed, and he was a businessman. He actually had property in New York and Jersey and all over the country and suffered a stroke in the early 90s, which left him in a wheelchair. He could only say shit damn in one, two, three. And, you know, I could understand everything he was saying. And that's all you really need to know. You need to be able to let him know how you feel and count the money. And then my other grandfather was a Marine and worked in the old world.

And so he was a pretty strong man and like didn't take lip. But he taught me not to take lip. He taught me not to, like, look, if someone's going to treat you that way, handle it. And don't step back. And, you know, with, and that does play in different areas. But he really showed me and taught me the ways to navigate how being confronted with someone. And then putting yourself in their shoes and realizing that they're having something internally wrong with them. It's not me.

It's, I'm just low-hanging fruit. what's happening to them at home? What's happening to them that's making them lash out? And so, like, I got choked in gym with my hoodie all the time. Like, I'd get, like, I would be running in circles, right, in the gym. And, like, there's always this dude, you know, I'd grab my hoodie, and he'd just take me off my feet and slam me on the ground. And, you know, I realized one day, you know, this only happened, like, three times.

And I turned around, I looked, and I said, what's your problem with me? And, like, immediately confronted him. the first time he didn't go well for me but when he did it again and I did it again and I stepped my ground even more you know we ended up becoming friends and he was no

he kind of stopped being a bully to people and it was like he was able to communicate his problems and there's a lot of people that are alone especially now more than ever but we don't realize we're alone we don't we don't understand loneliness as it as we once

did, you know? When you didn't have computers and you didn't have access to people, when you were alone, you were alone. And now we live in a world where there's so much media, there's so many people. We have so many friends and followers and all these people are our closest friends. Oh, I'm on their close friend's story. But are they your friend? Are they with you? Are you alone and the perception of having these numbers or the perception of having these close friends is real or fake. And I feel that we haven't really been able to tell the difference.

And so, in sharing loneliness, no one wants to share a lonely, like loneliness. No one wants to tell someone that I'm sad. No one wants to tell someone that they feel this way or that way. Like, that's a sign of weakness, right? No one wants to convey that. And that's where it gets dangerous. And that's where we've got to figure out how to navigate that loneliness for others and bring awareness and provide opportunities and have those outreach things that people are willing to outreach.

People are willing to communicate. And I think we're in a fine line of that. Do you think that drive and devotion for your family and career at that age also help get you through those tough moments when you're being bullied? 100% 100. Like, I, I do everything for my family. Like, just like, just like Walter White, man. You know?

And, but the difference is the paths and how much are you willing to sacrifice of yourself. And for me, family, family is the most important thing in my life. Like my, my, and that, that carries over to not just my, my family, but my family of friends that I have. And I, I find we need something to grow, stronger. Everyone in life, anyone that has done anything that that changes the world, they didn't do it alone. Like they had something. They had a drive. They had an image of their

mind. They had a vision. I'm really big into having a vision, having an idea of if I can't see it and I'm the one that has to do it, no one else is going to see it. And so I think it's so important to have something that that's for you, that no one can take away from you, that that's inside your soul to move forward in life. And that's where a lot of people, you know, you see in life where they were the stars of something, they're a high school star, football star, whatever it is. And then they just kind of freeze in that period of time versus growing past it. And I think a lot of that is when people take something that's superficial. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, an idea of others or a status

claim to hold that as motivation. But you need something tangible. You need something that no one can take from you and, and, and something that you're willing to protect and, and, and hold dear. And I find when you have that inside of you, everything is easy. Like, not really. But like easy, easy in the sense of the motivation to move forward, the motivation to get out there, the motivation to take risks and to put yourself in vulnerable positions. No one wants to be vulnerable again. No one wants that. It's a scary thing when you are truly vulnerable.

It's initially a wild animal backed into a corner. But I find, I hate to say it, I do my best work. when I'm backed into a corner, when I have no other choices. And I find myself creating new opportunities and new choices from that, that without that pressure, I wouldn't have done. Do you think the vision that teenage RJ had for himself came to fruition in the end? Or compared to where you are now? Or do you think it differed from how you first envisioned it? I think it's on par with my vision.

You know, as we get older, we learn, you know, different things of, you know, what's important to a child, what's important to a teen, what's important to someone in their 20s, and what's important to someone in their 30s, you've seen enough. Like, you know, you've seen different phases of your life, and sometimes those phases are longer than others. but but I mean I think you know we all make mistakes you know I think if you're not living life you you know you have to live a life with no regrets but at the end of the day sometimes those regrets like keep you going and help you not make mistakes or those repeat those same one of my favorite quotes it's actually an AMC quote is remember the past to preserve the future and I think that's something that I've always carried with me as well is, is you have to remember those moments of, of the mentality. Do I have a similar mentality to what I was when I first started in this

industry? I think I do. I'd like to believe that I'm still that same person. Do I do things differently or how I talk to people differently? No, not really, but my motivations are different. and so I think it's finding those motivations in your life for this situation you're in. And being able to have a certain motivation to do certain things in those moments are what gets you on to that next step. And so I think the younger stuff of me would be pretty happy with what I've done and the work I do and kind of the life that I live now. And, you know, I think for me a long time it was creating stability.

And I think it's so important to find stability in your everyday life and kind of have that home. And that's really what I was focusing on seven years ago. And since then, I have found it more. And I've only recently had the idea of taking a vacation. I didn't know it was possible. but so I'm working towards that. That's my next motivation is figuring out time to take vacation. Yeah.

So tell us about getting cast and Breaking Bad at 13 years old. So yeah. So at the time I was in Los Angeles, you know, auditioning. My very first audition ever, though, was an anti-meth campaign for the state of California. And it was this guy that comes home to his family. I was going to be cast. I didn't get the role. I didn't, first informant was I didn't get the job.

But this guy comes in on meth and like causes a scene and is breaking things. And I auditioned for that and I didn't get it. And then about six months a year went by. I got this audition for Breaking Bad. And it was me. You know, it literally, when I read the role, when I got the listing, it said dark hair, big eyebrows, mild cerebral palsy. And I'm like, done. that's me. I'm in it. And so, it didn't work that way. But so I auditioned for it. And then a few months later, I auditioned again. And so I auditioned five times over the course of six months. And four in Los Angeles, one in New Mexico. And I was the very last cast member to be casted. They've already started filming when I got casted. They're already shooting the pilot. They already had their dinner, cast dinner. And so I literally,

auditioned. I want to say it was like a Wednesday or a Thursday. And I, I, don't quote me on the days, guys. But, uh, but I literally auditioned one day. They're like, all right, we, we like you. You're going to New Mexico. And so I literally got on a 6 a.m. flight to Albuquerque, New Mexico the next day, and flew in, got in around 10, 11. I was 13, turning 14 at the time. It was like right before my birthday and um i went in i auditioned for vince vince then there was like all right you go out it was me versus one other person um and i was like okay and so they called me back in and i did a test screening with anna and brian and i went back they were like thank you so much went back to my room and i crashed and then vince gave me a call and said hey uh rj you got the job uh go

get back to LA, pack your bags, and come back because you're in it. And so literally, I flew back to, I was flying back to LA that same day. I had it going and I had it returning just in, like, you know, just in case. They were like, yeah, we got to get this kid out of here. And I literally packed my bags and flew right back to set and flew in. Looking to start 2026 with an unforgettable getaway. Airways sale is on now. Fly non-stop round-trip to Fiji from just 748 or enjoy a sunny Fiji stopover on your way to Australia with round-trip fairs starting from 839. As a One World Alliance member

and American Airlines Advantage program partner, your miles go further across the South Pacific. Book now at Fiji Airways.com or contact your local travel agent. Conditions apply. Very much immediately started work. Was your mom hesitant to letting you do that audition because of the theme of the show? No, we love the theme. No, my mom's pretty chill. And like, and so, like, for me, as, as a young adult, as a young teen, like, I, I was not, um, I wouldn't say I was worldly, but I wasn't, I wasn't censored as a child. Um, I, no one, no one lied to me. Like, I, and, and, and the thing is, I have this weird thing that like, like, if you're lying to me, I know, like almost instantly. And, and without being told it to lie, it's going to come up.

Like, my whole life, I've had this. It's a gift and a curse. And so for the content of the show, you know, meth being a big part of the show, sadly, I didn't look at it as that. I looked at it as a family dynamic. And I think for me, as a young adult who made decisions for my family, made decisions that were initially beyond me and may have not been initially right for me to make,

I still made those decisions without hesitation to provide for my family, to take care of my grandparents. You know, I grew up with a lot of ailments around me, a lot of people that were going through things as far as, like, you know, cancer. I already, my grandfather had emphysema at the time. My other grandmother had colon cancer, and, you know, years went by with this. And, you know, my grandmother had a pretty severe case of diabetes. My aunt had had a very severe case of diabetes. my aunt had polio and and I was kind of the only young kid to carry groceries to do this hey RJ I need this hey scratch my like you know I I always took care of my family so when the pilot came up it just made sense to me it wasn't it wasn't about this negative content but the positive

content the family dynamic the willingness to to do what is necessary to provide regardless of consequences. And in life, there's always a consequence. And so for me, you know, my dad really wasn't supportive, but me and my dad were oil and water. And so I, he was supportive after Breaking Bad, though. But, but like, you know, those decisions. And so as far as content, again, I wasn't sheltered.

So the reality of this world to me wasn't. shocking and sadly breaking bad is a reality for most people not you don't like Heisenberg itself this this idea of this kingpin like people don't just become that you can't that people die like and so um with the family dynamic the the the key points of that would the traumatize to the family the people, the things. Like, that's real. And I think that's something for me, I carry my art in the basis of reality.

And I do my best, even if it's fiction or whatever, to always have an error of truth in it and transparency with it that when you watch it, you can take something from it. You learn from it, even without learning.

What was your view of the criminal justice system before filming versus your view on it after? You know, it's an institution. It's a system. You know, I'm a big supporter of the police. I'm a big supporter of the military. I, you know, I believe that we need to have safety systems in place to protect people. You know, is every cop a good cop? No. But that's no different than every person on the street, you know? It's not every person's a good person. And certain, sadly, people get into systems of power, and they abuse. that power more often than not. Growing up though, I mean, I still do. I have a positive relationship with the police departments. When I work in cities and communities, you know, my main passion really is philanthropy. I love humanity.

I love everything about what we are, the good and the bad. You know, we, it's part of our life. And I think there are systems in place to protect us. And, you know, we do need someone to call when we need help. I've been on the receiving end of having to call 911, like, sadly, more than I would like to admit in situations that were dangerous. And so, you know, having that ability to do so,

I think it's a fine line of, you know, where our system fails in certain areas and where our system succeeds, we really have a lot of discrepancies. And now more than ever, you know, we have a lot of mixed feelings. We have a lot of mixed emotions, especially right now, you know, but I do think we have to uphold the law.

I do believe, like, you know, there are these basic human decencies that need to be uphold. And, you know, there's a study that shows that we're only three meals away from anarchy. If you starve someone three mills, they'll do almost anything, especially to get food. And so when you have these systems like that, humans are very volatile creatures, you know, both positive, volatility, and, negative volatility. And so I think as far as like supporting and growing, you know, we do need to show support for our local police. We do need to show support for our people who don't want to take our jobs. Our EMS guys, our ambulance guys, our firefighters, you know, these law enforcement, we lump them in to just being cops. But there are so many men and women that take certain jobs

and work in neighborhoods. And so like I've worked with the DEA. I've worked with the sheriff's Department, State Police, Secret Service, FBI. I have a great relationship with the Law Enforcement Foundation here in New York. I have a great relationship with the law enforcement, certain law enforcement in California. But I think, you know, don't be doing stupid shit. Sorry. I mean, don't, you know, and you don't know it's stupid at the time, but like, don't take those risks. Don't put yourself, don't, I find, you know, if you treat everyone with kindness, care, and understanding, those are my opinion are the three most important things when talking to someone and treating someone.

Because if you work on understanding them, you can put yourself in that position and you can figure out how to navigate a bad situation. And if you candle them with care and respect, you can help them grow. Because a lot of people don't get care. A lot of people don't get respect. and a lot of crimes are committed initially to get respect, you know, to show that I am this and I can take this. And I find if you have that care and you can navigate people through a very treacherous and hard world to navigate, we can mitigate the risk of people falling into the justice system, getting lost in the justice system.

I've had friends that were in jail for a hundred days just because they're holding them. Just because they got lost in the system. And they're like, so am I free to go? And they're like, yeah, yeah, sorry, it was a clinical error. But yeah, have a great day, sir. And it's like, that's not just happening to the one dude I know. This is happening to millions of people. And so having that care, that understanding, and then that kind of,

You know, when you're able to give people kindness, there's a lot of people that have never received kindness. And where I work, I work in Brownsville, Texas. I have a community development project there that I've been working on since 2014. And, you know, there's a lot of people there that don't get kindness, that don't get care. And the divide of understanding. Every civilization always comes to this amazing point. It's not amazing, but it's called the Great Divide. every civilization in our history does

and that's something that we have to navigate to avoid because once we are truly divided that's when we have lost humanity and I think we can repair that with kindness and care and understanding and it's not easy

and a lot of times people don't want to understand and they're like why should we care for this why should I try this why do I give them this And in that mentality, you really, I find lose an opportunity to change lives. And when you're able to change someone's life, and I'm not saying like change your life in like a like a drastic way of like, you know, we're going to go like stay on top of them. But just moments that you'll never see. And you might have been the only person to ever give them that moment.

And then they carry that with them. And I truly believe that's something that this unseen impact that happens in our world, I think it's so important. Do you think that anyone could become a version of Walter White, maybe not to that degree of a kingpin, but just falling into that lifestyle? Oh, easily. Easily. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. Sadly, that is one of the most truest statements of time. and I find when you are

when you tell a child you will be nothing but this you know think about this you have kids out there with disabilities that you'll never walk properly you'll never talk properly you'll never not be disabled you'll never have a normal life

you'll never and I use that as perspective just because that's something easily tangible but it carries over into everyone but when you're told something your whole life how do you know it's not true how do you know that you're not a bad guy

or a lazy or whatever it is that you're being told no one's told you differently so you must be this and sadly it's something that people carry internally with them into their adulthood you know that's why you see the history repeats itself with families of kids that you know that are put into situations and their grandfather, their father, their mom,

everyone in their family kind of went down that same road and it's positive road miles, positive infrastructure, positive, just being positive in general. And I do think that many people, you know, there are people like Walter Wright in the world. And there are people out there that no one knows. And no, and the thing is,

is that there's people that no one will ever know about. And sadly, like, those people really do have an impact in other lives. And when you put, when you're a young kid with no hope and nothing, and someone hands you a gun and says, you're a man, you're a man. Anyone tells you differently, you know what to do. And we live in a world here in the United States, across the world, That's our only opportunity. And it's because they've never seen outside that,

outside this bubble of whatever that is. And again, you have positive bubbles. You've got neutral bubbles and you've got negative bubbles. I find most people are in this neutral bubble of just living life. Until one day they're like step into one of the other bubbles where they either positively are like, yeah, I want to have a career. I want to get a CEO. I'm going to go make this job.

I'm going to go volunteer my time. time or they're going to do the opposite and they're going to digress into that path. And again, I think it's just our environments that we put people in. And I'm very lucky I get to travel this world. I have seen things, man, I have seen things that people would call me a liar to my face. Say, that's impossible. That's not true. That would never happen in this world.

That would never happen in this society. Like, it happens. And it's beyond even my understanding. It's beyond everyone's understanding because I'm not in that world. But I get to see glimpses of it with the communities I work with and the communities that I try to help. I see those avenues of life. And it's a wild world we live in, man. Before I started this podcast, I don't think I realized how, you know, actual something like Breaking Bad can be.

just all these normal everyday average individuals. I'm a great example. I had this guy that looked like a college professor on last week that was secretly cooking meth. Wait, what? Really? Yeah. You don't know how many Walter White-type individuals I've had on the show,

female and male individuals that have lived that, not to the degree of a kingpin, but just living this double life. All of those concepts the show portrays are real. They stem from somewhere. That wasn't made out. of thin air. It just didn't make people start talking about it.

I think Vince did a really good job on the show of taking his time creating it and taking his time to creating the core characters. You know, my character is actually based on a real person. A friend of Vince is Vince had in college and he passed away. Excuse me.

But he was based on a real person and he passed away in school and he had cerebral palsy, used the forearm crutches. That was a big basis of, it was the basis of Walt Jr. And was able to really create these characters that were individuals themselves. And, you know, when we read these scripts, the quality of, like, man, I recommend everyone to read the pilot. Like, it's online, you can find it. It's just so well written.

And when you read it, you can see. like it's written in such detail and such a manner that you just you blow right through it you just can't put it down do you think a lot of individuals that were your age

found your character relatable because they came from a family where their father or mother you know was a taking part in crime yeah I've I've talked with many kids and I've had I people confess crimes to me all the time. I don't, look, I'm not a rat or anything, but like, man, some of the things,

I'm like, dude, I didn't need to know that. Like, you, don't be telling people this. And, and, uh, and I have had come, I've had quite a few kids over the years be like, oh, I was a wall junior. And I, like, like, your character, like, really inspired. Like, and that's, I think, as an artist, that's what I hope for is that, that my role was positively impact kids. And, you know, There are a lot of kids just like Walt Jr. With parents that may be on a wrong path. And I think having a show like this that shows a parent on the wrong path and the impact that happens into their family, you know,

people wanted to be Heisenberg, but I don't know if you saw how the show ended. It didn't end well for them. and that's I think what the great amazing thing about art is is that this character will live on way past me and it's the show is so much bigger than than any of us and how it's perceived and how it's grown and as I mentioned earlier

you know when you first watch it to watching it again as you're older you take different things away from it you you see each character differently and that's something that you know if we're not learning and growing what are we doing at what point did you realize

your character was more than just a character that it was an actual symbol for individuals and also becoming an icon in a way well thank you but I every day I still have to learn that you know it's not something that I see I knew in the beginning

we all knew the show was something special we all knew it was was something that had never been done before um but but i'm just grateful to i've had the team of people to really create a show from beginning to end that that was just such a in my opinion perfect series um and i'm just grateful for that and if this role has that impact it's not up to me it's up to the audience it's up to the fans it's up to the people that view it from this day forward

to whatever they take away from that and I'm just grateful that I have been lucky to have characters that I try to give that to where you can learn tires matter they're the only part of your vehicle that touches the road

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Cash account offered by Wealthfront brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC not a bank. Instant withdrawal subject to conditions, fees and eligibility requirements may apply to certain checking features of the cash account. And you can grow, and they do carry on, and they grow with time. What kept you grounded and stable as like the fame started to rise? The character was becoming more of a bigger name as a show grew in popularity. How did you stay that same person? Don't let other people's goals influence you. I think that's something that for me,

what I am trying to achieve now to what I was trying to achieve achieve then is pretty much the same. I really don't, I have grown wiser, I would hope. I have different goals, but what I want in this life and what I want for my family and what I want for this world, and for me, that hasn't changed. My goal is still the same. It may have, it's made, taking me. longer to achieve it.

But, you know, what you expect to do, what I expected to do in certain areas with my philanthropy in two years has taken me 10. And I see growth. And, you know, when you're at the top of the mountain, it's a lonely way down. And Breaking Badigan wasn't popular while it was on. It was kind of a little hated in the beginning because of the content, because of the harshness, because of the reality of what he's doing. and people thinking that we're glorifying this, people didn't like it.

And once streaming became a thing, Breaking Bad really did its most work after the show already ended. And I think for me, a lot of that glitz or glamour, whatever, I had bigger problems. Speaking of glamour for Why can't I say the word? Glit's Glit's and glamour? Yeah. Speaking of glamorizing, you know, the crime aspect of it,

did you think it glamorized it in the beginning when you first started? Or do you think it shows how crime could destroy those around you, including the family as we see in the evolution of the show? I think it depends on your mindset. Like, you know, I have a. this pizza guy I don't know his name I don't know where I was I just

I had this pizza hot dude knock at my door and my my girl in the other room is like don't say this story but um but this guy came to the door I ordered pizza I was in some cold town and he's like yo yo you're the dude from breaking back

he's like yo you changed my game and I'm like what are you talking about he goes no, no, no, you don't get it, man. He's like, I sell. And now I, like, run it all through this pizza shop. And no one knows, you got to order a special pizza. Can I hook you up?

I'm like, dude, get out of here. My mom's coming to the door. I'm like, I'm like, please get me my pizza and get out of here, dude. And so, so in that sense, people take what they want away from it. Like, did that probably end well for that guy? No, I'm sure. Like, you can only live that way for so long. You know, that's, it's a volatile world.

And, and, you know, as humans, we're capable of anything, especially if we're motivated. And so, I think if you take the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the drug aspect of it. Like, you know, as far as, like, you know, everyone, I, the, the, the, the drug aspect of it. I love, I love mob movies, man. Growing up, I was like, yo, I want, like, that, like, I want to be a gangster, right? Like, that's, that's the, as a kid, like, like, rap music and stuff. I want to be, gee, I want to be a gangster.

I want to do this. I want to do, like, in reality, like, it's, it's all ha, ha, ha. But, like, there are certain kids, though, that, like, have that. And they're, like, that's what I'm doing. That's my calling. And then you either grow out of that and go, oh, yeah, that was a bad idea. That, that kind of, you know, you either. you know, my dad was an addict.

And so I saw it like where, you know, having that addict behavior and when you're in it and you're in it and you're in it, you don't realize your bad decisions. And I find most people in my world, you know, they don't live very long, especially when you want to make what they consider big moves. And so that impacts people. at the same time, you know, you have this family dynamic and you have this uncle and aunt that are trying to protect people that are trying to like navigate this and be that lending helping hand and and watching the family decay. Because that's what's truly happening through the seasons is the family is decaying.

In the beginning, everyone's smiling. Everyone's happy. Everyone's, you know, and then the ball drops with the cancer. And in his mind, it's like, yeah, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. What is it to me if I die sooner? You know, let me take these risks. Let me take these unnecessary outlets.

And I think it's the mindset that you're in. And I don't blame TV or film for creating whatever, right? It's the individual themselves. And I find accountability is key. you know, finding accountability and what that is to you and me and whatever it is, that people aren't always accountable. People don't want to be accountable. And so I find that it's, it's again, an environmental aspect of people that it's like, this is all they know. You know, like you you I haven't always lived in a nice neighborhood like you know I I mean my

neighborhood now man when you get to my house it said welcome to Mexico like I got I got some crazy neighbors they're always watching football in the front yard man like I I love my neighborhood but like you know it it can be a bit scary sometimes for for other people doesn't really scare me anymore heard never did but but like I think it's a mentality and I think it's a growth and I think it's you know regardless of your view on on something we can always change that we can always learn from we can always take I find people that have never for lack of a better term suffered you know that's a great gift I I have friends that have privileged lives and you know I wouldn't want that I am so grateful for everything I've

to face all the the different challenges that I've had to navigate because it taught me things it it gave me understanding on certain issues without that I wouldn't know there's a problem there I wouldn't and I wouldn't work on finding a solution for it because I just wouldn't know and I think shows like breaking bad be whatever you take from it help give other people insight into like Breaking Bad's not real. That's just the thing. And it's like, uh, check the newspaper. Like, because there's, like, there's always some dude that's like, you know, at the end of his rope.

And he's like, let's make a drastic move and picks up that sword and goes off and does it. And I think it's, again, though, accountability for individuals. Did doing the show help you understand your dad's addiction better, especially at that age? Mm, not really. No, I, I, me and my dad kind of knew where we both stood from, from, from, from a very young age. Um, and, and so, uh, I, I, I, I think as far as the show went, I, you know, he was more, at the time, he, he, he got more involved in my life, of course. But, like, I still was able to be like, no, you're not part of this. Like, you, like, you, show, you opted out, you opted out many years ago. You don't have a decision in this. I think not necessarily show, but the people I worked with in the show, you know, like groups from the DEA, law enforcement, different organizations, you know,

different centers and groups, and, you know, having this role, it enabled me to go speak at universities and talk to young kids about addiction and drugs and about staying, like, look, everyone's going to do something in their life. You know, you can't protect everyone, but what you can do is tell them to be careful and to provide, be like, hey, don't fall down these paths. And so, in a sense of, did it help me understand it? Yeah, but I pulled my dad's card a long time ago. I knew him more than, I knew him better than he knew himself.

If Walter Jr. was real today, where do you think he would be? Do you think you would have followed in his dad's footsteps or fell into addiction, ended up in prison or gone off to college? My hope for Walt Jr. would be that he would follow in kind of his uncle's path and Hank. More of, you know, go to a university, start learning and kind of trying, in my opinion, he would be working on undoing the damage his father had done. And the thing is, I don't think people realize how much harm. harm Heisenberg caused. Because at the end of this, the amounts of drugs he was pumping into the world, you know, tens of millions of people are impacted. And in reality, like, that's not a fake number when it comes to the drug industry. And it comes to pharmaceuticals. And it comes to this,

this outside world, this world that people just don't know about. And we live in a world with many different worlds, you know? But, but I think, in my opinion, Walt Jr. is, I think Anna and Skyler and Walt Jr. are probably in a rough way. When you have someone like a Heisenberg as a father, they would probably go into witness protection. You know, they probably wouldn't be allowed to have a normal life after that because of the stain of his father. Because of like, at the end of the day, he's still Walter White. Walter White, senior may be dead, but Walter White Jr. is still alive. And I find that people, when you have someone like that as a parental role or someone in your family, it leaves you with a mark.

And people are like, oh, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, actually, when I go out and stuff, I, I, I don't, I get called Walt Jr. Heisenberg son. And so, you know, I would hope that he's following in his uncle's footsteps. And my idea is that he's going to go back and figure out how to get a hold of Jesse. Yeah, I think that's so relatable to the real world, the present day with individuals. Even now, more with media, when someone gets arrested for something, their whole family is torn apart, tarnished. I mean, look at what's happening right now with the CEO. and...

Oh, the stadium. Yeah, I just saw... And he didn't even commit a crime, and that's just everywhere. So, you know, his whole family's brought up. But consequences. See, it's accountability and transparency and consequences. And people think there are no...

They're so whatever, untouchable, whatever it may be, that there is no consequence. And it may not be immediate. It may not be a year or two. There's always a consequence. It's a law of science. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. It's physics. It's just part of our, and I, I think it's sad, though, to see, especially when there's young kids involved, the children paying for the sins of their father or mother, whoever

it was that did that. And luckily, it's about being able to rise above it. And sadly, not everyone can rise above it. Not everyone's in a position to or have the understanding too. Because some people double down on it. You know, it's like, well, they think I'm, another one of my favorite quotes, Victor Frankenstein. Is it?

Yeah, it's Victor Frankenstein. If I cannot be feared or if I cannot be loved, I will be feared. And I think that is something that is bred into people. looking for love, looking for acceptance, looking for hope, and being put in a bubble of a societal bubble of there's no hope for you. This is, this is who you are and this is what you come from. And like, how many times do we see in movies where it's like, you're just like your father, you're just like this, and you'll never be that? And that's something that people are actually

told in real life. This is not a movie. This is reality. And again, when you're told that, your whole life, What do you eventually become? More often than not, I just like them. Was it hard to find your new identity after the show wrapped? Like, that was such a big piece of your life. Still hard, man. No, but I don't look at it as a new identity. I, again, I don't really feel any different than who I was when I started that show to who I am now.

I have different knowledge. I have different understanding, but again, I am very grateful for what Vince Gilligan created for me and the legacy of Breaking Bad. I'm just the opportunities that I get to do, the people and the lives that I get to talk to and the kids that I get to talk to, you know, there are things I'll never see from what I've done, and I don't need to. It's not the point. But I could not do it without Breaking Bad.

I would just be whoever. Like I wouldn't have that ability. I wouldn't be acting. I'd tell you that right now. I wouldn't have done this job if I didn't get Breaking Bad. Like I wouldn't still be in it. I, you know, I'm very great. I shoot, like, I try to shoot a movie a year now.

But at the end of the day, I wouldn't get those without breaking bad. I would just have been another struggling actor. And to be honest, probably have moved home, like when I was 14 or 15 and went fishing with my uncle and, you know, worked on the boat and, you know, living a very quiet, probably rural life somewhere. Like, I wouldn't have the ability. And so I'm just, it's something that you have to look at when it comes to something

like this, you take the good and the bad, forever being Caldwell Jr. And is a pretty... It's a... I'm looking for another term, but initially, like, you know, I'm okay with it. I'm okay that I will never... Once you get to the top of the mountain,

I mentioned this earlier, once you have climbed that mountain, and Breaking Bad was a very big mountain. And you see that view, you got to walk down. You just can't stay at the top forever. And that's not the reality of life, you know? You got to have the ups and downs. And so having a show like this that carries on and continues to grow every year with every generation

and new insights about what the show meant to someone and how it helped them or how it... Or not. But how it makes people feel And, you know, we're in the Smithsonian. Like Breaking Bad is in the Smithsonian. And having something like that, really, I'm very proud of the work I've done in the show. I'm one of those people that I'm not always proud of the things I do

just because I always want to do more. For me, it's like, what more can I do? How much more can I help? And I look at Breaking Bad as, going like, yeah, that's good. That, that's, that's, that's, that did its thing and I'm content with that. When, whether it's like, other thing where it's like, it's like, no, how many, how can we navigate this? How can we work with the city?

How can we build this bridge for the community? How can we, how can we navigate? It's like more, more and more for me. And, and again, though, I just, I look at breaking bango, that's cherry on top. Done, we're good. You're using it as a tool. Yep. Yeah, I, I, I think.

that's relatable to so many of our listeners too who go through one specific moment their life granted yours was a positive that experience and we're using the theme of ours is using our negative into an opportunity to build i mean me talking about prison in my experience is what led to all of this um and and having everything i have now in the show and and and building upon that that insight that understanding like it's it's not always positive understanding but there is that one moment and I think the moment comes multiple times in our lives, where it clicks for us, where we take that stance and moving in a positive or negative direction. What happened to the bullies as the show started taking off? You know, you're filming.

The show gets bigger over time. What happened to those individuals? Dude, to be honest, man, once I started working, I really didn't look back. Like, I, you know, I was in school. and I was in a self-paced self-teach program. Like we had men in black coming in our school all the time. I don't even know. We don't.

I don't talk about it. But like, for me, I just started working. And I just never stopped. I just kept. And then with acting, you know, you get teachers on set. So even with my background work, I had a teacher. And I was literally working sometimes seven days, sometimes seven days a week as a young adult on different shows and projects.

And so for me, I just never look back in that sense of like moving forward with life and tackling the things. Education is, I recommend highly important, you know, but if you're still able to be educated and for me, I had private teachers once I started acting. So I'm very grateful. You know, I was in a classroom by myself. I was the only kid on the show. And most of the times, if there was any other kids,

there was a couple other kids on Breaking Bad. I wasn't in those scenes. I only was in the family dynamic. And so, you know, some of the bullies, like most of my friends, you know, most of my friends now, or even some of the people I knew been, that could have probably been called a bully. They're all married. They got like three kids.

Most of them joined the military. Like they all went off. Most of my class joined the military and went off. And all of them did pretty amazing things in the military. But I just kept working. Like I just was like, I need to take care of my mom. I got my sister. My grandparents.

Like I really wasn't. Most of my friends were older. And, like, I know I was, you know, there's always that one kid. It's like, what are you doing here, dude? And everyone's like, no, no, no, he's cool. He's cool. And so I was at, like, one kid hanging out with, like, 20-year-olds, 40-year-olds, like, businessmen in, like, meetings and structured things, like, even as a small child.

And so I grew up in a very different environment than most. But I, I don't. when I'm working, I move forward. When I have a project and a goal set in mind, I'm very goal-oriented. And so when there's something that, like, I know I can achieve and there's something that I want to achieve or have an impact in, I get blinders.

Like, I'm one of those very hyper-focused people at times. I'm also someone that will sleep 15 hours or a couple of days if I have the opportunity. but what's something you know now that you wish your teenage self new at the time um hmm you know finances i i i you know they don't teach you that in school um but uh but you know i i i think that's something that looking back like i am grateful for every lesson i learned and you know i i find you can't put too much trust into people i think that's something i i i find I'm still a very, I'm still a very trusting person. I trust, I trust everyone I'm in contact with,

but the difference is, is I know the people I truly trust and the people that I know would turn against me. And so I think when I was a younger kid, probably being a little less, a little less trusting, it definitely put me in positions that I, I'm like, man, that dude really did me dirty on that. And I gave, and I still do, you know, it's important to give people the benefit of the doubt every time. But I'm a three-strike guy.

I'll let you burn me twice. You're not getting a third. That's pretty nice, you know. Most people don't give that. Well, I find everyone makes mistakes. And, and I don't, I don't see

a negative in redemption. I believe everyone deserves redemption in some capacity or another. And there are things in life that you can't always be redeemed for. But I think everyone should deserve a second chance. Now, it's what you do with that because how you treat others

and when you get that second chance doing it again, it's deliberate. It's intentional. and you know what you're doing. You were told that, hey, don't be stealing. Don't be treating people poorly. Don't, like, you know. And I find I like to understand people.

And so the willingness to let someone burn me is on the sense of me trying to understand why and who they are. And the potential I see in them to how they see me. and I think everyone deserves the right to have an opportunity. I think everyone deserves the right to be redeemed in some capacity. And I think we're again, certain elements are told where it creates this a dog, right?

You got a dog. A dog bites people, whatever. You know that dog bites someone. I've had dogs. Like, I, like, you know? And I knew dog, I knew when to pet him and when not to pet him. I had a dog, I was super friendly, anyone could touch him. I had a dog, I was like, no, stay away from that dog.

Don't even go near him. Like, it's like, we have to lock him in the back. And, you know, that dog wasn't born that way. And sometimes it's very loving and caring and kind. But then that dog will also tear you up. Like, it's similar with people, you know. that person didn't grow up and be like, I want to do this. I want to hurt that person.

Or I want to, like, they were put into a position that they thought it was the only way. And then some people feed on it. You know, Heisenberg. Heisenberg's a great example of an alter ego. Feeding on, it was no longer for his family. Walter White was gone. What Walter White wanted to do was provide for his family. What Heisenberg wanted to do was being impacted.

higher. And you can't always have both. And the consequences and the collateral damage really does carry. And I find sometimes they need that. Sometimes it's not for you to decide. And, and I do believe in karma. You know, universe is powerful, man. you put enough into this world, it's going to hit you with it, whether it's good or bad, you're going to get hit with it at some point in your life. And I think that giving someone an opportunity when no one else will is kind of a great thing because you have the best hopes. And more often than not, they succeed.

More often than not, I've seen it where they succeed. And again, I've seen it where they don't. But that's not up for me. That's for them. That's their actions, their decisions, and their motivation. And we, no matter how powerful you are in the world, no matter what you can do, you cannot control someone else. You know, that's that you can't control someone's decisions. You can influence them.

But you, that's for them to decide. That's for them to make those decisions. And if you're doing, if you're helping someone right, you help them come to the conclusion on their own. and you give them the insight and the understanding to understand. And I feel like there's not enough of that in this world. And it's not cut and dry. It's very fragmented and very blended. And it's not just one way or the highway.

It's multiple avenues. Do you think someone like Walter White could find redemption? Is he redeemable? No. I don't think so. I mean, and it's too late for him now. Can't, I think he tried to redeem himself in death with Jesse. He got redemption with Jesse.

He didn't get redemption with his family. And so, I think redemption is, is again, a loaded word. Because what is redemption? What is your, what is your redemption? What is my redemption? What are we trying to redeem? And who are we trying to redeem for? Because Walter White trying to redeem himself with Jesse, but sacrificing himself, leaving his family. USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day, like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%.

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There's a consequence to that. And it, again, costs everything. I always wonder how, like, the people that are serving life in prison for heinous crimes, you know, find redemption with themselves. I don't think they can necessarily redeem themselves with society, but I know it's very much talked about about finding redemption, you know, internally when you're in a position like that. You know, again, the levels of redemption, right? You know, I do think, I think when it comes to heinous crimes of heinous nature, there's something not like, again, it's very tricky subjects, you know, it's a very sensitive topic. I don't always think that there is redemption for certain things

and as someone that, you know, that burdens, you know, I think it could be similar to someone who tried to save a life and failed, you know? How many EMTs out there that are like, just keep going and they don't? And that carries home. That carries in echoes. and I've had friends that are in combat situations. I have friends that are in firefire situations.

And, you know, it's that, that, like, it's not about the 50 you save. It's about the one you didn't. And that eats at you. And I think some people, though, have that ability, where it carries with them. And it either makes them stronger or chisels them away. And I think with some of these guys,

you know, there are real monsters in this world. They're like, you know, there are people that make mistakes and that are doing it for money and doing it for whatever. And then there are people that intend to hurt others and that like to hurt others. And I think when it comes to that redemption, they don't see themselves as doing wrong. There is no redemption in that.

You know, I have friends that work in prison systems and stuff, and I've been into some, I've done some visits and been behind the scenes in some of your most harshest prisons in the country. And, you know, I met a lot of great guys that are spending a lot of time in prison. And, you know, they read and they get educated and they learn and they grow. And they're like, I know what I did was wrong. Now. Now, now I know.

And then there's some guys that just want to do it again And they want to make other people feel that the way that they feel And all I can say is there's some real monsters in this world And I'm sure you could probably have seen some In your past that you're like, man, that guy is Like we He's a phone call for when bad things happen I need something bad to happen

That's the guy you call And they love it. And I think that's something that this, it's its own form of addiction. And, and, you know, you see all these studies where the brain is wired. You know, we're learning more and more as we explore technology with AI and science and the chemical imbalance. Like, chemical imbalances are real. Like, that's a, that's, that's, that's not some joke that some, some, some, some, some, random person says it's like, oh, I, I ate three cheeseburgers, I have a chemical imbalance,

I can't stop eating. Like, it's, it's like the dude that's eating 15 burgers because his stomach doesn't get full, you know, and he just can't stop. And I find, I find that as we explore more of the neuron and neuroscience realm, we're uncovering more information about how certain people's brains work and the connectivities and the certain lobes that get more electrons and more stimulation. And then those electrons and neurons that build into the brain themselves on positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement.

And the pleasure synapse to the brain of what that is to each individual person. And I find that we can rewire ourselves if we choose to. What advice would you give to someone that's? struggling to find redemption or how to even go about it? I mean, saying sorry is in meaning it. Like, like, I find, I find we will say we're sorry, but we, so, I know, I always, I'm, sorry, I left the water on the floor. I'm sorry I did this, but like, but true, true guilt, true sorry.

I think it starts with the things you never said. I think it starts with you confronting who you are and your actions and then being like, hey, like, I'm truly sorry. I understand now. I see that what I did wasn't right to you. And having these conversations and being then told, I hate you, you're wrong, you did this. Because that's what usually happened, right?

Someone does something to you, and then you lash back out at them being like, no, I don't accept that. But as a person seeking redemption, I find it's about enforcing that over and over and over again for the rest of your life, if it takes it, that understanding, that willingness to understand. And sometimes it's stepping away. sometimes it's going back into it but I think it really does start with understanding what you did how you did it and the consequences of your actions

and then being able to go to the person that you're seeking redemption from and apologizing for as long as it takes and if that's something that you're seeking it could take time. And, you know, when my father passed, you know,

I think that's something that, you know, at the end we were cool. But it took him dying. It literally took him dying to understand and to kind of me and him see eye to eye. And sadly, for many, many people, it's usually those final moments that may find redemption.

RJ, thanks so much for coming on the show today. No, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure. Yeah, this was a great conversation. I really like, because we're so diverse in the criminal justice system, so you've got different aspects, and sometimes it takes you to, like, actors

who have played roles within the criminal justice system, and it was super insightful to hear your perspective on everything and just your journey. Well, thank you, man. No, it's great talking with you. You know, these are things I'm very passionate about, And I know I'm not the only one that has gone through things in life. And we all do.

And, you know, anything of insight to get people back on the track that they see for themselves in a productive and positive and healthy existence. It's not easy, but it's just one step out of time. Absolutely. Definitely, man. Well, safe travels back. Hey, to you as well, yeah.